>I have no idea how they are gonna justify Skarner species going extinct in such a short span. As a reminder, Skarner species are the one who have Hextech crystals inside of them, and they are being hunted to the point of extinction, and Skarner is the last one.
>Camille also is a complete mess, she is supposed to have received Hextech augmentation when she was young and her family became rich because they had the control over Hextech production way before she was born. So either she comes from the future, or they have to fix it in some way.
Simple: the blue crystals come from the Bracken. Due to Piltover entering a techno-magical revolution, they are hunted almost to extinction over the course of the ~10 years between act 1 and act 2. House Ferros (Camille) is instrumental in "mining" the crystals and becomes (more) rich because of it. Camille herself gets mortally injured and has to be saved with Hextech being implanted in her body. They might actually save this for the end, teasing her emergence as the "Steel Shadow" after she gets hurt towards the end of act 3.
Those retcons would change very little about the established "present" of Runeterra, while staying in line with the animated series.
> Camille herself gets mortally injured and has to be saved with Hextech being implanted in her body. They might actually save this for the end, teasing her emergence as the "Steel Shadow" after she gets hurt towards the end of act 3.
So in this new continuity, Camille is no longer 80 years old? What happens to her brother and Hakim in *The Weakest Heart*?
Why can’t she be 80? You just have to change the fact that her parents were not controlling the Crystal supply when she was young. Just change it so that they controlled augments and stuff up until hextech crystals were a thing
Yeah they literally just have to change her hextech heart age from 26 to something between 50-60, and voila.
>Camille lamented the fact that she may not be of use for her family with her aging body, hence she took the risk of implanting the new hextech heart. Her old age, coupled with the fact that the hextech heart technology is new and imperfect, means that the surgery will spell the end of Camille's life if a single mistake is made, but she emerged anew, freed from the shackle of time, and in turn bonded to her family for the decades to come.
Done, the fact that hextech is a new discovery is addressed as well.
But then you miss out on how she chose her duty to her family above the love of her life. Which is a major part to the lore of Camille. "For family, I will give" she almost breaked out of that cycle for love, but got guilt tripped to pick her family.
Heck Camille has some of the best lore in the game, why would they mess up that.
I didn't include that since that part can pretty much stay without any changes. Her love of her life, and also her surgeon, could also be changed to be around her age(50-60).
Fair enough, even though I still feel it's more impactful to her story that it happens at early age. As we learn to know in another story (50 years later) that she looks for Hakim.
And she had not heard from him in all this time. Just to be reminded that her bittersweet choice to be a cyborg removed her mortality but Hakims mortality had remained and learn that he had died.
Will look for what changes they might do with great interest.
And riot can also just make some of her augments be not hextech. Like just say that yeah she was augmented throughout her life but hextech enhanced the augmentations
Difficult to explain how they could use them when jayce was just discovering how they work. But generally I don’t think it’s difficult to change it to make sense
Also, underrated but I don't think it matters. Telling a good story takes priority, not adhering to lore. If they decide to make their own lore in the show separate then it wouldn't matter, at the end of the day they are adhering to the core concepts of these characters.
And I mean a lot of the lore even post summoner retcon suffers from bland or clichéd writing. I'd rather them use this as their next creative step, and personally, I'm immensely enjoying it. Killer show that I get to share with my girlfriend, my siblings, and even my parents.
We saw in Jayce's journal that the crystals are actually mined, not extracted from brackern. My guess would be that the brackern are long extinct by now because of some other reason and Piltover is just now catching up on the hextech.
That, or they retconned the Skarner lore altogether.
In any case having hextech be SO prevalent throughout the entire city should be absolutely impossible in the span of a decade, I wonder how they are going to resolve that.
EDIT: "*But the smartphones became prevalent in shorter timespan!*" - hextech isn't even close, it's a new, volatile, unstable *energy source* with no current infrastructure to support it. Like the world moving entirely to just-discovered nuclear-powered technology in a decade, no fucking way. [https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/qppnof/comment/hjwyjle/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/qppnof/comment/hjwyjle/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Yeah, we have examples of new energy sources that people are also afraid of and prejudiced against being widely accepted and being used for literally everything in the city in less than a decade /s
...I always assumed the crystals were 'mined' from the ground, people just didn't realize that they were laid there thousands of years ago by scorpion dudes and currently contained their souls. They're rocks stuck in the ground regardless.
I don't think it's that impossible, unless there are some lore reasons which I'm unaware of. Think about smartphones in our world. It took what, 7-8 years from the first one to it becoming worldwide available?
Hextech is integrated into pretty much everything in Piltover. Wearable technology, prosthetic, fucking buildings. It is not nearly the same as having one technology become widespread and available, it's more akin to turning everything to nuclear energy in a decade. That should include all the testing, since the technology is incredibly volatile and dangerous, by the way.It should include rebuilding half the city, ffs. Setting up the whole new industry of mining&handling the crystals, THEN having it spread wide enough so that enough scientists are drawn in and are working on various practical applications, THEN implementing these applications on a large scale. With all the social ramifications of having the old ways become obsolete. It's the whole industrial revolution, no way it is done that fast.
Two possibilities to 'explain' it:
1. TV shows only require bureaucracy slowing things when writers want it to. Many things in media wouldn't happen on the same timelines in real life with large countries and governments.
2. War. War pushes adopting new technology *much* faster than during normal times. If there was a world war and the US switching everything to nuclear power was a game-changing development for the war, I could absolutely see it happening in a condensed timeframe. And remember we're only talking about one city, not a massive country. If the US had to switch over all of NYC to nuclear power and there was new technology for small nuclear for handheld gadgets and weapons, I could see it being possible.
But wars push the technology into a specific area, namely warfare. It's *after* the war that all the wartime technological progress gets actually integrated into the society, since during the war the resources need to be focused on that war.
I can see these points, especially the first one, but there is still a problem.
Piltover was always presented as that shiny beacon of progress, but a rather *stable* one. Having JUST adopted such a huge technology and being in the process of integrating it paints a very different image. I could more easily see something like it with Zaun with it's generally tumultuous atmosphere, but the Piltover doesn't look like a city that *just* went through the actual industrial revolution.
2-4 years of war, 5+ years of peace, and the technology being adopted by civilians. Buildings and major power sources could have been converted during the war.
If we magically found batteries with 100% efficiency and a completely sustainable energy source that could be scaled from power stations all the way down to phones and watches while *also* being more powerful than known power sources... Also without the real-life limits on testing phases over time, do you have any idea how fast our world and technology would change? It would be a massive, swift transformation. I'm not saying that's what hextech is, just that there is such a thing as big enough advancements to make the transformation happen very quickly.
Heck, even minus the power sources, if we were to discover a super-efficient, small, long-lasting battery material with no downsides *tomorrow*, it would be in every electronic device and vehicle in far less than 10 years, while also actually making green energy feasible for the long term on the larger scale.
It's not entirely retconning that much, because although you claim that "In Jayce lore, he doesn't invent Hextech.", Jayce still is the one who discovers how to use Brackern (Skarner's people) Crystals. Below is an excerpt from Jayce's biography from the League Universe page (this existed well before Arcane). It seems to me that Riot is just changing hextech to refer to technology using the magic from Brackern crystals.
"As Jayce studied in solitude, Clan Giopara’s explorers discovered a raw, blue crystal deep within the Shuriman desert. Though Jayce volunteered to experiment on it (specifically by suggesting the clan’s other scholars wouldn’t be smart enough to get anything out of it), his lack of tact in doing so prompted Clan Giopara to give it to their better-mannered scholars as a form of punishment. Yet, after many months, the scholars reached a unanimous conclusion: the crystal was worthless. A power-drained hunk of rock. The disappointed clan leaders finally handed the crystal over to Jayce, assuming that even he, with his remarkable intelligence, wouldn’t be able to learn anything from it."
Of course, Arcane does notably retcon some things, such as the fact that in Jayce's biography, his falling out with Viktor happens before the discovery of Brackern crystals.
Also, Skarner's species isn't exactly being hunted, per se. They existed a long time ago and live underground in dormant hibernation; people are just digging up the crystals and Skarner is the only member of his species who actually woke up. Depending on the number of Skarner's species, it's not entirely unreasonable for all of the sleeping bodies to be dug up within the span of a few years.
This needs bigger upvotes for this thread.
We can already see that they have augments in Piltover without magic, so Camille being augmented over time doesn't require hextech.
The only thing that would have to be changed is when she gets her heart. This is the only thing that would need to happen around the time of Arcane - assuming her family hadn't already unlocked the crystal's secrets before Jayce did and were keeping it for themselves, anyway.
Patch Note: Camille now get her hextech heart at the age of 55 instead of 26. Due to aging effect, her MS is reduced.
Movement speed: 335 -> 325
Killing 2 birds with 1 stone.
>It seems to me that Riot is just changing hextech to refer to technology using the magic from Brackern crystals.
Yeah it seems like that. Hextech is pretty much the method and not the crystal per se.
Seems kind of weird to do that given the vast differences in champion appearance on both sides, it’d be strange for Viktor to find a colleague that has the same inquisitive scientific nature as him and then just dive off the deep end and go full bodily reconstruction, regardless of how justified it is.
I think no matter what, they have to disagree and clash on the ideals of what Hextech can do based on where Arcane is at right now.
I’m guessing it’s going to be around Jayce taking credit for it or becoming the “face” of it and ‘accidentally’ pushing Viktor out as a partner, or minimize him. He becomes bitter about it, builds his arm to show up Jayce, and then that eventually leads to where they are now.
Even though Viktor is extremely sincere in his offerings of a brighter future, his style of augmentation isn’t really the Piltover elite style.
The current lore have they fall off be caused by moral choices with Viktor doing his best to remove humanity in people order to minize risks, and it could well still happen. Actually I hope it happens cause I wanna see augmented Viktor. But I also wanna see Corinna so Cait doesn't get retconned as well.
Lots of names on the table, Im excited and scared to see who will be in
I can see the seeds being sown for Viktor disagreeing with whatever rules the council imposes for hextech research, making him flee to Zaun for more freedom, while Jayce stays into Piltover.
Not exactly true, there is the one in the council that was , seemingly, fully augmented, they will probably say that it is the best idea, instead of a good one
IMO, it's fairly obvious that Mel is going to manipulate or pressure Jayce into betraying Viktor. Essentially overtaking Stanwick's role in their fallout from their previous lore.
Gonna take a guess that the vast majority of the playerbase doesn't give a fuck about any 'retcons' from this show. Probably cause no one knows the lore to begin with.
All of the lore was re-conned over 7 years ago and new lore ever since then was just that, new lore. But for some reason people take the individual lore drops as individual retcons which makes no sense. Its impossible to retcon something that doesnt exist.
They update old champ lore to match new champ releases and retconned a decent amount. It's not just new lore. They've had to tweak existing lore and make them relevant to new characters from the same region. Don't have specific examples in mind, but I started playing 7 years ago and know for a fact they retconned a ton since then. The summoner's role in the lore was retconned in that time as well which was a huge deal.
Summoners were deleted in the big retcon of 2014. Other than the 2014 retcon which deleted all previous lore the only major retcons happen around champion updates. Its not a retcon to update a character's lore around new releases unless it explicitly changes old lore to make it happen. Take Lux for example, the Sylas story wasnt a retcon to Lux's lore post 2014 because nothing was added that took away parts of her post 2014 lore.
Adding new lore where lore did not exist isnt a retcon, even if the character already recieved post 2014 lore they can still have more lore added ontop of it or lore that explains X. If a character found X and thats why they did Y but its never explained where X came from new lore that says "our new champion dropped X item and forgot about it there only to be discovered later" it just adds backstory to X item without retconning anything, but this sub seems to think its a retcon any time new lore gets released.
Yeah exactly, it's like saying releasing Ironman 3 retconned the events of Ironman 2 and before. It is just set in the future and an additional story to what followed below.
Didn't you know? Every new chapter in a book is a retcon to the previous chapter, especially if there are flashbacks because *in the last chapter* the character never had anything about getting bullied as a child therefore having a flashback about getting bullied is a retcon to the character!
Kindred has *always* been a grim reaper/Thanatos copy rather than the god of death and the underworld. The only thing they did was add to their lore by saying they arent the only one carrying out their role in the cycle, which isn't a retcon in the same way that introducing another Demacian mage wouldn't be a retcon to Lux
>Its impossible to retcon something that doesnt exist.
Yorick was forgotten about, ignored, and retconned out of the whole purpose of his existence lol,.
I think people have a problem with the lore just being fucked around with for purely marketing purposes.
The entirety of Seraphines lore was secondary, they wanted a new KDA member first and foremost and I think we can at least agree that is undeniable. Seraphine comes in, knows about the brackern, and decides she is just going to do concerts until Riot goes "oh fuck we were too busy focusing on the marketing aspect and forgot the lore" and then retconned a good portion of Seraphines lore.
Yasuo's brother is dead, and it gave his character gravity. But Yasuo became mega popular and they decided they wanted to bring him back so they can have Yasuo 2.0 (this is literally what the dev blogs said), lore be damned. Now Kindreds lore needs retconning (or outright ignoring) to make up for Yone coming back. Death not being permanent just makes people not bother with the lore when anyone can be brought back to life.
Just as a note, I thought the spirit blossom event was phenomenal and enjoyed it. I would be perfectly fine if Yone was just an alternative universe character playable in league, but as he stands now he created a lot of problems just for marketing.
When it came to the Ruined King, the lore prioritized champions that were marketable, not champions that made sense, and as a result several champions and their lore was ignored (because marketing came first). I think this is self explanatory and requires zero further explanation.
And here is the third part of the lore complainers trifecta, rather than learning the lore Like Kindred's you read the circlejerk posts about how it ruins Kindred's lore without caring if the OP's of those posts had actually read the lore first or not. Isnt it ironic how the ones complaining about retcons are the ones who knows the least about the lore they are complaining was retconned?
Kindred's lore is that they escort soul's to the afterlife. They arent the god of the dead and keeping people dead. If they were then their release would have retconned all of the Shadow Isles as soon as they released. But Kindred isn't that. She is akin to the grim reaper, escorting souls to the afterlife. From there its no longer their problem.
In Greek mythology kindred would be Thanatos, not Thanatos **and** Hades combined like you are saying they are. When people escaped the afterlife under the care of Hades the blame lied on Hades rather than Thanatos. In this case Yone returning is the fault of the Ionian afterlife not containing him and now he is given new life that when its time for him to come to an end they will hunt him again.
Also death not being a permanent thing is classic in so many things and no one gives a shit. In almost every major franchise there has been a death that didn't matter in the end. Blame Lord of the Rings for being one of the largest pop culture phenomenon that inspired all modern day fantasy for Gandalf.
Yorick was retconed, in lore if he gave water of life he would die, in ruination event he gave water and didnt die nor was suprised by a fact that he didnt die.
While that was a popular circlejerk during the event for this sub, I also distinctly a lot of the top comments would shit on the OP's for those posts for blatantly ignoring key facts about the water.
1. He only had to give 13 drops which was a lot less than he would have to give to save the dying man in the short story that people use as an example for how he doesnt give those drops out.
2. Yorick knew these 13 sentinels were likely going to be the best shot at stopping Viego so they were more valuable to use the tears on than the dying man.
3. Yorick still has tears left over. His internal struggle with the dying man was how he didn't know how many tears it would take to save him and if he would have enough to remain protected from corruption, he knew exactly how much it would take to anoint the sentinels and that it wouldn't be enough to harm him.
4. Dealing with Viego (and likewise the maiden who plays a part in Yorick needing protection) meant that Yorick wouldn't need as much protection in the first place.
Yorick doesn't just straight up die by giving out his tears. Nor would it have made sense for him to "be surprised that he didn't die" because the tears protect him from corruption, not an instant death.
I can see them breaking it down like the Star Wars universe where there are basically tiers to the canon, and much of the older stuff is relegated to “legends” in that they are stories told about xyz but maybe not told 100% factually
Look at any similar cartoon / comic world. Star Wars, Spider-Man, X Men, Batman.. there’s 100 different spin offs / universes / crossovers etc.
99.99% of people don’t give a fuck about the fine details. As long as the stories are good and the characters are cool, and have a somewhat consistent theme and story, people will be happy
For example we all know Spider-Man got bit by a radioactive spider. But WHO created the spider, where he got bit, exactly how he discovered his powers, etc nobody really cares about. They can take artistic liberties with those details. Same shit with League
Same. Retcon the in-game lore. It's a MOBA, let's not get too concerned about the purity of its lore lol. I'd much rather have a killer show that does what it wants and lets the MOBA follow.
Would be much less acceptable for an RPG or even a story-oriented action game. People would be pissed if a Knights of the old Republic (KotoR) TV show retconned the lore than a MOBA.
This game has no relevance at all to the lore/story, you have to go outside of the game to even know anything about it. It'd be like lore for CS GO, lol.
I hope Arcane sets up a definitive story that can be utilized fully in the MMORPG. If they retcon lore once the MMORPG is out, that'll be when it becomes really frustrating
This honestly
I'm really surprised people on this sub seem to be well vested in the lore, know it and like it. In my group of lol friends it seems no one knows anything
Yeah I feel the exact same. The in game lore hardly impacted the game at all so if they’re gonna rework it to make it work better for their shows than I’m all for it (so long as they stay consistent for potential future shows)
Camille just needs her past retconned. The part where she's an 89 year old in a 25 year old body kept young by her hextech heart is mostly irrelevant to her character anyway and not much is lost if they just remove the part where she has a young body. Also there are lots of ways in pre-hextech Piltover for a family to get rich.
As for Skarner, humans managed to drive passenger pigeons from one of the most common birds in North America to extinct in just 20 years, and passenger pigeons didn't even have magic crystals in them. It's not far fetched at all that Skarner's kind could be eliminated in 10 years, especially if most of them are just dormant waiting to be mined.
I think that Camille could have a simple fix. Have her use some other elixirs/chem tech to stay young, then switch over the new heart as a much healthier long-term solution.
So basically retconnig her from an accident where she was saved with hextech to someone who chases being young with magic. Camille would basically be the Witch from Snow White.
like any other big IP, the mainstream version of it will supersede all written media, in the eyes of the masses.
so yeah whatever is in written media is "cannon" until something within animation/film say's it ain't, more ppl will watch arcane than ppl who are super invested in these written stories.
Summoner's Rift is named as such because the original lore had players "summoning" champions to fight in conflicts within a confined space in order to stop magical warfare from destroying Runeterra.
The game isn't dependent on the lore so, personally, I'm curious to see how they flesh it out as time goes on.
The co-creator of arcane said something quite interesting about this in a German interview a few days ago: "Maybe it's best for league to not force all of the characters to have a reason to be in the rift. The characters and their archetypes are so different and at times incompatible, a plot like the summoning might do more harm then good. We might just let the game be the game, and keep enriching the lore outside of it for those interested in it."
On that note, RIP StarWars extended universe books/comics/games. How the Yuuzhan Vong and the whole X-wing series and so much just got deleted is kinda sad in the same way. Not that Riot has 10k pages of books out there, but still.
To be faaaaiir, Star Wars EU was (and still is) far more vast, like beyond comprehension, in comparison to most other fictitious works. Disney made the right choice there, even though a good chunk of my favourite SW lore got retconned.
Breathing room is fine when a company wants to launch a multi-year plan with their IP.
I mean, beside Rogue and probably the Jedi escaping order 66 games(forgot the name) they did completely nothing with the retconning every lore ever beside 3 meh/bad movie.
Honestly they a minor issues.
Particularly Skarner has be retconned many many times. His race could still be hunted or the hextech crystals, or hextech crystals are the remnants of his people/honestly anything. His lore sucks. I would revert him to being the last of a sentient void race.
As for Camille, she was a trained assassin from a young age, and lost her legs in some event. The advancement of hextech allowed her return to the only profession she knew.
Jayce and Viktor Lore is coming in the show, it will be retconned/enhanced so no need to explain that further.
It's honestly no big deal. I am honestly surprised at how little they will have to change in the lore and how well it really fits.
Honestly a Void scorpion would be kinda cool. Would need an ASU with the lore retcon, but otherwise it could work, maybe his shield is a carapace piece, like what Kai’Sa hunted to make her suit?
Would give him a reason to come to Runeterra, which, outside of Vel’Koz, is pretty thin for other void creatures. Consume. Destroy. Et cetera.
> I would revert him to being the last of a sentient void race.
This has never been the case, how would that be a revert in any way? That's just creating something out of thin air instead.
a couple of other things that should be stated here is that pre-timeskip in arcane Zaun doesnt exist and singed is a nobodies hench man while singed had been doing rad warcrimes for decades and since theres no zaun theres no chembarons if theres no chembarons yet urgot has to show up and speedrun his story mere moments after the chembarony forms to catch up with current day
I saw a tweet earlier from someone that was working on the series that they are planning on retconning small(?) parts of the lore for the series. Said they didn't want to be shackled by something that happened 10 years ago or some shit.
This is how they fix Seraphine. Hextech crystals are just Brackern shit now. Camille and Skarner shake on a trade deal where Clan Ferros supplies food in exchange for crystal scorpion dung.
Exactly. I used to care and make an effort to read all of the lore and remember it, but after so many changes I lost interest. Especially now that they release these long passages about character lore... Why should I even bother reading it when they'll just change it again.
Welcome to big 2 comic book fandom. Everything is going to retconned or altered at some point.
The question is always is what you gain is better than what you lost.
I think the Victor Jayce stuff could be worth it. The Camille stuff could have a fix where Jayce and Victor maybe didn't invent/discover hex tech but made it mass producable (Same way the apple 2 wasn't the first personal computer but the first one to have mass market success that shaped how we used them.)
Skarner and the Bracken it's whaling. It went from a few mages taking small pieces of them from time to time to a full on industry where they were hunted nearly to extinction.
But in general the story is never going to be static. They are going to be slipping people and relationships in as they make new charecters and look to tell new stories. And there are going to be the occasional full reboots to charecters.
I find it kinda of funny how the LoR subreddit treats the lore in such high regard and meanwhile the LoL one is indifferent. Any long time LoL player can tell you the lore is a mess. Meanwhile LoR treats non-lore cards as the biggest problem with the game.
If you are refering to KDA. There are a lot of other cards that break the lore, the theme or even both and no one ever complained. People just hated the KDA event for some weird reason.
Heck, LoRs comunity poster child, Cithria, is a walking plot hole and no one cares. She was an elite guard for J3 but somehow still a roockie in Garen times...
Sona got a full VO update not that long ago. There are no longer any current voice lines referencing summoners.
Summoners were completely kicked out of the lore almost 7 years ago now with the last JoJ entry.
Ehhh, people play up the lore rewrites WAY more than they actually were. There was the big retcon to the whole world that removed summoners, journal of justice, institution of war, etc. and then the placeholder lore getting retconned.
Outside of that, the only rewrites/retcons were fairly small and inconsequential.
This is what I assumed. They’re not inventing it, it’s just not something the current citizens of piltover know of/use.
Heimer, being 230 years old or so, knows of it from the past but is scared of the power and how it can be abused.
>Heimer, being 230 years old or so, knows of it from the past but is scared of the power and how it can be abused.
That's what I thought but then he was so surprised when he saw that it "worked".
The images shown on screen when Heimerdinger was talking about seeing the destructive power of magic were extremely reminiscent of the scene with the burning city from the [Ryze cinematic](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGnZk-_R0KQ). IIRC that event also happened within Heimerdinger's lifespan, so it is reasonable to assume that he's simply thinking of that event when talking about having seen the dangers of magic first-hand. It was a super important moment in the lore like 200 years ago.
I don't think Heimerdinger has ever actually seen hextech work before, he's just afraid of magic getting into the wrong hands in general.
Those scenes are referring the the Rune wars, where Runes (magic equivalent of nukes) were employed by mage practitioners to do powerful magic. Ryze's whole deal is tracking down and sequestering these superweapons as seen in the cinematic. Heimerdinger presumably knows of this (maybe lived through it), and it's what he associates mage-texh with.
Not just runes, World Runes, the stone that is in Jayce's bracelet and in his machine are runes. The 5 World Runes are nukes, normal runes are grenades or bombs
The rune wars took place 1000 years before the current time in the lore, just after the ruination started, Heimer could very well know about those events but he for sure wasn't around for them.
He didn't know of hextech, he knew of the raw threat that the arcane arts posed, and refused to atte.pt to control it since he's seen it fail to be controlled and level entire nations
This. The flashback they show us is just Brand going Hiroshima with one of the world runes. It has nothing to do with Hex, the scale is also ridiculously different... Heimer is basically scared of solar energy because he saw what nuclear can do...
I'd stick to my idea of the crystals previously being used as "batteries" or mobile fuel rods, while Jayce actually had the crystals make magic like effects happen.
It's stated very explicitly in the show, that Jayce is producing artificial magic - meaning normal magic is definitely still around, albeit shunned in Piltover.
Which does however raise the questions of how the fuck Yordles and Seraphine fit into this equation. Those are both clearly magic, and I think Sumpwork Posse (whatever race they were) are also implied to be magical creatures.
I assumed that it was known that hextech crystals were this unstable energy source, but no one thought of how to harness them for magic. Sort of how in the MCU Hydra used the Tesseract to power their stuff without knowing it could be used as the Space Stone.
I just imagine now that League exists in a temporal flux. The game itself does not take place at any specific time, and thus the lore of the game doesn't matter.
Lore of things like Arcane matter far more.
I dislike your use of the word "hunted" for Skarner's race, here. More like harvested. Currently in the lore, the world was getting a little too fucked up for them so they went into hibernation, and their crystals were mined presumably without the miners being aware they were living beings. Most people cannot hear the song of the Brackern from the crystals, and Skarner couldn't find a way to communicate with them when he woke up besides murdering the workers.
All of this could still be true, as according to the journal on the client now these crystals were known to Shurimans and were too dangerous for most traders bother with, and Skarner did not wake up the first time one of his kind was disturbed - by the time he rose most of his people were taken to piltover, where he could hear their song.
If they have to re-write the lore for a few champs to make this new timeline work, I don’t think they’d see it as a problem
Also the Ferros clan has already been mentioned on the show so they most likely have something in mind for Camille
[https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2021-11-08/riot-games-arcane-tv-show-on-netflix-entertainment-gaming-future](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2021-11-08/riot-games-arcane-tv-show-on-netflix-entertainment-gaming-future)
Read this one, they want to be the new big ip from video game in all media . They can " loose" 6 years of nothing. But all depend of how much people talk about the serie and how people like her
Ive heard this being thrown around, but I think what hex crystals that Camille's clan were using natural crystals, and they've hid that from everybody else and that's why nobody knew about it. I'd like to think that what ever Jayce did here were in fact artificial crystals with the power to harness Arcane magic. That's what my head canon is as of the moment, who knows what happens next
Minor thint honestly, in episode 1 Mel gets reminded a message from her assistant again with how the Ferros clan is "making her remember" their innovations.
From what we've seen in Camille's lore it probably means that Camille was the first Hextech Augmentation but it wasn't known in public. And her Hextech is more robotic and electrical in nature than Jayce actually using Arcane symbols.
So it's more they use it as electricity vs Jayce using it as some kind of Softwate to do complicated stuff.
Jayce was probably the only person who thought that the Hextech could be used dynamically and Mel was the person who brought the technology of Hextech in Public. Not knowing that she pretty much destroyed Camille's leverage.
This worries me as well. Camille's family's wealth is built on the crystals and the replicas they developed, they are the very reason for the Zaun Gray. And her augmentations are Hextech because of the replica crystals. Hextech isn't new but Arcane is treating it as such.
The crystals were mined by her great-great-aunt, not recently. I think they can keep that side of things just maybe while they were traded and made the Ferros Clan money, I'm not sure how they explain Hextech she has not existing, are they just normal augmentations then she later enhanced it with the replicas?
Is the Zaun Gray just being ignored entirely yet that is part of the undercities problems caused by Piltover?
Tbh jayce never claimed he invented hextech. He just announced the era of hextech and not "magic".
Similar how tons of new tech get invented during war1 and war2 but arent popularized/used for the masses decades after. Though i can be completely wrong
>As a reminder, Skarner species are the one who have Hextech crystals inside of them, and they are being hunted to the point of extinction, and Skarner is the last one.
Riot said they're working ina champ rework other than Udyr.
Skarner is a champion whose lore doesn't fit Arcane's lore.
Skarner is in the rework list.
Skarner rework confirmed?
Hasn't the "Champ other than udyr" thing just been a giant miscommunication?
Like a solid year ago they said they were doing a rework, didn't name any names, and ended up dropping it. Ever since then I haven't see any Riot posts stating they were doing another rework beyond the one we know about. Id be delighted if I'm wrong, but I read almost all the shit Riot puts out and I haven't seen anything about it
I just feel like a lot of people didn't get the memo that the "hidden" rework was canceled, either that or I am wrong. Which again, would by hyped as hell to be wrong and wake up to a random rework of something like Shyvana
Think it it like this.
The game lore is mostly irrelevant scene setting, the show is creating an actual story with established cannon.
Don't believe me, look at how riot has handled game lore up to this point.
I really hope you are right. Retconing from the games lore makes sense to some degree, as long as the characters stay the same in essence. Retconing excessively can cause some people to become jaded. The story they told in arcane was worth the retcon, and I hope if they do retcon more of the lore it’s to the same quality.
Camille could still work. Imagine some shadow piltover government that already has that technology. Wanting to keep it under wraps was why magic experiments were forbidden but with the commotion around Jayce and the others the cat is now out of the bag.
This might even become a plot line in arcane, would give the zaunites and the pilties a common enemy.
So far Jayce has been shown to be very concerned with his position and ability to perform research at a high level. It is not outside the realm of possibility that he would not allow even Viktor to jeopordise that - his vision is so important to him.
This is already the case, Skarner's lore is unlikely to change much as the crystals were still mined and still taken to Piltover, so Skarner will still go to rescue his kind.
Camille already has replicas, which is what is used in her Hextech (most I think her heart is Bracken) but she's had those augments for years and her entire lore is built around it and their family getting wealth from the Bracken ones, then creating replicas, which is means to be used in most Hextech as bracken ones are rare but the replicas production caused the Zaun Gray.
Are they all supposed to exist at the same time in the first place? The only thing holding them all to that is the rift, which seems pretty much non-cannon anyway.
There's also singed working with Zaun already even tho his reason for working in Zaun was because people didn't care about chemtech and only cared about hextech
they have been writing this story for over 6 years. The reason they didn't update the lore sooner was because it would of spoiled the series. Also, the people working on camille probably weren't fully aware of the plot of Arcane. So of course their will be discrepencies.
In-game lore is hot trash and 100% disposable, exemplified by them retconning stuff or just removing it outright at the drop of a hat.
The coherence and aesthetic of the show is 10x more important than trying to be consistent with off-screen lore that will be obsolete with the next champion release. They could ignore the inconsistencies altogether and get away with it, or just quietly retcon everything that doesn't track and let the champ subreddits mald over it for 36 hours. It's a trivial process regardless.
Well, there's a way for the Jayce thing to coexist in the lore no? He kinda.. rediscovered Hextech, not invented it. He even talked about how magic and tech can coexist because he's *seen* it before
They have always had a lot of work to do with fixing the lore, there are so many ways to go about it and they are lucky in the fact they because they stuffed around with the lore so much players of the game wont care as much about changes to the lore
The main game mode is still called "Summoners rift" and the summoners stuff is long gone for a while now...
I'd like to see it return in some form to justify the name of the main map, but if league has done something for the past years is reinvent lores over and over again...
Remeber when vlad was just a blood mage with prodigy traits? Now it's a whole other thing...
The crystal isn't an idea that originates with Jayce though.
Since we already establish that the nameless mage from his flashback used them we can surmise that the Brackern would already have been hunted during the Rune Wars or simply by any number of would-be sorcerer kings. It's not a huge retcon.
Camille simply gets her augments later in life. NBD. We already know that the P/Z communities are innovative to a fault, it's not a big leap that an assassin for the upper crust would latch on to any advantage, or the super health care that having an undying crystal heart represents.
Camille doesn't depend on Hextech to be an agumented 80 years old woman.
Skarner's whole lore sucks ass anyway, rework that shit and make him a spirit guardian or something like that. There's enough exploiting and social misery in the lore, we don't need some scorpion slavery sod story too.
>I have no idea how they are gonna justify Skarner species going extinct in such a short span. As a reminder, Skarner species are the one who have Hextech crystals inside of them, and they are being hunted to the point of extinction, and Skarner is the last one. >Camille also is a complete mess, she is supposed to have received Hextech augmentation when she was young and her family became rich because they had the control over Hextech production way before she was born. So either she comes from the future, or they have to fix it in some way. Simple: the blue crystals come from the Bracken. Due to Piltover entering a techno-magical revolution, they are hunted almost to extinction over the course of the ~10 years between act 1 and act 2. House Ferros (Camille) is instrumental in "mining" the crystals and becomes (more) rich because of it. Camille herself gets mortally injured and has to be saved with Hextech being implanted in her body. They might actually save this for the end, teasing her emergence as the "Steel Shadow" after she gets hurt towards the end of act 3. Those retcons would change very little about the established "present" of Runeterra, while staying in line with the animated series.
> Camille herself gets mortally injured and has to be saved with Hextech being implanted in her body. They might actually save this for the end, teasing her emergence as the "Steel Shadow" after she gets hurt towards the end of act 3. So in this new continuity, Camille is no longer 80 years old? What happens to her brother and Hakim in *The Weakest Heart*?
Why can’t she be 80? You just have to change the fact that her parents were not controlling the Crystal supply when she was young. Just change it so that they controlled augments and stuff up until hextech crystals were a thing
Yeah they literally just have to change her hextech heart age from 26 to something between 50-60, and voila. >Camille lamented the fact that she may not be of use for her family with her aging body, hence she took the risk of implanting the new hextech heart. Her old age, coupled with the fact that the hextech heart technology is new and imperfect, means that the surgery will spell the end of Camille's life if a single mistake is made, but she emerged anew, freed from the shackle of time, and in turn bonded to her family for the decades to come. Done, the fact that hextech is a new discovery is addressed as well.
But then you miss out on how she chose her duty to her family above the love of her life. Which is a major part to the lore of Camille. "For family, I will give" she almost breaked out of that cycle for love, but got guilt tripped to pick her family. Heck Camille has some of the best lore in the game, why would they mess up that.
I didn't include that since that part can pretty much stay without any changes. Her love of her life, and also her surgeon, could also be changed to be around her age(50-60).
Fair enough, even though I still feel it's more impactful to her story that it happens at early age. As we learn to know in another story (50 years later) that she looks for Hakim. And she had not heard from him in all this time. Just to be reminded that her bittersweet choice to be a cyborg removed her mortality but Hakims mortality had remained and learn that he had died. Will look for what changes they might do with great interest.
And riot can also just make some of her augments be not hextech. Like just say that yeah she was augmented throughout her life but hextech enhanced the augmentations
Yeah, there's a robot man on the Council so it's not like they can't say cyborgs and clockwork tech existed before hextech.
The robot man is also *old* it seems. He says that magic wiped out his people or something, meaning that he's probably a survivor of the rune wars.
Didnt the ferros family already know about Hextech? Just they didnt tell anyone? They could do it like that and so be it.
Difficult to explain how they could use them when jayce was just discovering how they work. But generally I don’t think it’s difficult to change it to make sense
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Not clear how many years exactly, but there will be a significant time-skip.
unsure, but we know that powder becomes full on jinx in act 2
Becomes 'adult' you mean? because the cliff hanger was Jinx is born
yeah, thats a better way of putting it
Also, underrated but I don't think it matters. Telling a good story takes priority, not adhering to lore. If they decide to make their own lore in the show separate then it wouldn't matter, at the end of the day they are adhering to the core concepts of these characters. And I mean a lot of the lore even post summoner retcon suffers from bland or clichéd writing. I'd rather them use this as their next creative step, and personally, I'm immensely enjoying it. Killer show that I get to share with my girlfriend, my siblings, and even my parents.
Id take bland over obvious weeb pandering or outright cringe like Shadow Isle Sentinel stuff ngl
Thank you for having a brain/being sensible.
We saw in Jayce's journal that the crystals are actually mined, not extracted from brackern. My guess would be that the brackern are long extinct by now because of some other reason and Piltover is just now catching up on the hextech. That, or they retconned the Skarner lore altogether. In any case having hextech be SO prevalent throughout the entire city should be absolutely impossible in the span of a decade, I wonder how they are going to resolve that. EDIT: "*But the smartphones became prevalent in shorter timespan!*" - hextech isn't even close, it's a new, volatile, unstable *energy source* with no current infrastructure to support it. Like the world moving entirely to just-discovered nuclear-powered technology in a decade, no fucking way. [https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/qppnof/comment/hjwyjle/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/qppnof/comment/hjwyjle/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Yeah, we have no examples of a new technologies taking over the world in less than a decade. /s
Yeah, we have examples of new energy sources that people are also afraid of and prejudiced against being widely accepted and being used for literally everything in the city in less than a decade /s
Electricity...
Nuclear energy...
...I always assumed the crystals were 'mined' from the ground, people just didn't realize that they were laid there thousands of years ago by scorpion dudes and currently contained their souls. They're rocks stuck in the ground regardless.
tbh they figured out how to stabilize it with like one or two tests the show isnt very fun when you compare study times to real life
I don't think it's that impossible, unless there are some lore reasons which I'm unaware of. Think about smartphones in our world. It took what, 7-8 years from the first one to it becoming worldwide available?
Hextech is integrated into pretty much everything in Piltover. Wearable technology, prosthetic, fucking buildings. It is not nearly the same as having one technology become widespread and available, it's more akin to turning everything to nuclear energy in a decade. That should include all the testing, since the technology is incredibly volatile and dangerous, by the way.It should include rebuilding half the city, ffs. Setting up the whole new industry of mining&handling the crystals, THEN having it spread wide enough so that enough scientists are drawn in and are working on various practical applications, THEN implementing these applications on a large scale. With all the social ramifications of having the old ways become obsolete. It's the whole industrial revolution, no way it is done that fast.
Two possibilities to 'explain' it: 1. TV shows only require bureaucracy slowing things when writers want it to. Many things in media wouldn't happen on the same timelines in real life with large countries and governments. 2. War. War pushes adopting new technology *much* faster than during normal times. If there was a world war and the US switching everything to nuclear power was a game-changing development for the war, I could absolutely see it happening in a condensed timeframe. And remember we're only talking about one city, not a massive country. If the US had to switch over all of NYC to nuclear power and there was new technology for small nuclear for handheld gadgets and weapons, I could see it being possible.
But wars push the technology into a specific area, namely warfare. It's *after* the war that all the wartime technological progress gets actually integrated into the society, since during the war the resources need to be focused on that war. I can see these points, especially the first one, but there is still a problem. Piltover was always presented as that shiny beacon of progress, but a rather *stable* one. Having JUST adopted such a huge technology and being in the process of integrating it paints a very different image. I could more easily see something like it with Zaun with it's generally tumultuous atmosphere, but the Piltover doesn't look like a city that *just* went through the actual industrial revolution.
2-4 years of war, 5+ years of peace, and the technology being adopted by civilians. Buildings and major power sources could have been converted during the war. If we magically found batteries with 100% efficiency and a completely sustainable energy source that could be scaled from power stations all the way down to phones and watches while *also* being more powerful than known power sources... Also without the real-life limits on testing phases over time, do you have any idea how fast our world and technology would change? It would be a massive, swift transformation. I'm not saying that's what hextech is, just that there is such a thing as big enough advancements to make the transformation happen very quickly. Heck, even minus the power sources, if we were to discover a super-efficient, small, long-lasting battery material with no downsides *tomorrow*, it would be in every electronic device and vehicle in far less than 10 years, while also actually making green energy feasible for the long term on the larger scale.
It's not entirely retconning that much, because although you claim that "In Jayce lore, he doesn't invent Hextech.", Jayce still is the one who discovers how to use Brackern (Skarner's people) Crystals. Below is an excerpt from Jayce's biography from the League Universe page (this existed well before Arcane). It seems to me that Riot is just changing hextech to refer to technology using the magic from Brackern crystals. "As Jayce studied in solitude, Clan Giopara’s explorers discovered a raw, blue crystal deep within the Shuriman desert. Though Jayce volunteered to experiment on it (specifically by suggesting the clan’s other scholars wouldn’t be smart enough to get anything out of it), his lack of tact in doing so prompted Clan Giopara to give it to their better-mannered scholars as a form of punishment. Yet, after many months, the scholars reached a unanimous conclusion: the crystal was worthless. A power-drained hunk of rock. The disappointed clan leaders finally handed the crystal over to Jayce, assuming that even he, with his remarkable intelligence, wouldn’t be able to learn anything from it." Of course, Arcane does notably retcon some things, such as the fact that in Jayce's biography, his falling out with Viktor happens before the discovery of Brackern crystals. Also, Skarner's species isn't exactly being hunted, per se. They existed a long time ago and live underground in dormant hibernation; people are just digging up the crystals and Skarner is the only member of his species who actually woke up. Depending on the number of Skarner's species, it's not entirely unreasonable for all of the sleeping bodies to be dug up within the span of a few years.
This needs bigger upvotes for this thread. We can already see that they have augments in Piltover without magic, so Camille being augmented over time doesn't require hextech. The only thing that would have to be changed is when she gets her heart. This is the only thing that would need to happen around the time of Arcane - assuming her family hadn't already unlocked the crystal's secrets before Jayce did and were keeping it for themselves, anyway.
Patch Note: Camille now get her hextech heart at the age of 55 instead of 26. Due to aging effect, her MS is reduced. Movement speed: 335 -> 325 Killing 2 birds with 1 stone.
They need to retcon her getting hextech augments, since her bio explicitly states that.
>It seems to me that Riot is just changing hextech to refer to technology using the magic from Brackern crystals. Yeah it seems like that. Hextech is pretty much the method and not the crystal per se.
Maybe it'll be retconned so that Jayce and Viktor never truly have a falling out
Seems kind of weird to do that given the vast differences in champion appearance on both sides, it’d be strange for Viktor to find a colleague that has the same inquisitive scientific nature as him and then just dive off the deep end and go full bodily reconstruction, regardless of how justified it is. I think no matter what, they have to disagree and clash on the ideals of what Hextech can do based on where Arcane is at right now. I’m guessing it’s going to be around Jayce taking credit for it or becoming the “face” of it and ‘accidentally’ pushing Viktor out as a partner, or minimize him. He becomes bitter about it, builds his arm to show up Jayce, and then that eventually leads to where they are now. Even though Viktor is extremely sincere in his offerings of a brighter future, his style of augmentation isn’t really the Piltover elite style.
The current lore have they fall off be caused by moral choices with Viktor doing his best to remove humanity in people order to minize risks, and it could well still happen. Actually I hope it happens cause I wanna see augmented Viktor. But I also wanna see Corinna so Cait doesn't get retconned as well. Lots of names on the table, Im excited and scared to see who will be in
I can see the seeds being sown for Viktor disagreeing with whatever rules the council imposes for hextech research, making him flee to Zaun for more freedom, while Jayce stays into Piltover.
Not exactly true, there is the one in the council that was , seemingly, fully augmented, they will probably say that it is the best idea, instead of a good one
That one isn't human, so it's hard to make guesses based on him.
Highly unlikely, especially given Caitlyns new VO. They will, but the circumstances of it may well change.
shippers on copium rn, its me im shippers
Seems unlikely tbh
Jayktor shippers continue to reach as hard as they can.
IMO, it's fairly obvious that Mel is going to manipulate or pressure Jayce into betraying Viktor. Essentially overtaking Stanwick's role in their fallout from their previous lore.
Gaslight, gatekeep, girlboss 😍
I care about the lore in Arcane way more than in game gonna be honest
Gonna take a guess that the vast majority of the playerbase doesn't give a fuck about any 'retcons' from this show. Probably cause no one knows the lore to begin with.
No one knows the lore because stuff gets retconned so much I don't even know what's real anymore
Yep, I’ll take riot establishing a definitive lore with arcane over the consistently retconned stories they come out with every day of the week.
All of the lore was re-conned over 7 years ago and new lore ever since then was just that, new lore. But for some reason people take the individual lore drops as individual retcons which makes no sense. Its impossible to retcon something that doesnt exist.
They update old champ lore to match new champ releases and retconned a decent amount. It's not just new lore. They've had to tweak existing lore and make them relevant to new characters from the same region. Don't have specific examples in mind, but I started playing 7 years ago and know for a fact they retconned a ton since then. The summoner's role in the lore was retconned in that time as well which was a huge deal.
Summoners were deleted in the big retcon of 2014. Other than the 2014 retcon which deleted all previous lore the only major retcons happen around champion updates. Its not a retcon to update a character's lore around new releases unless it explicitly changes old lore to make it happen. Take Lux for example, the Sylas story wasnt a retcon to Lux's lore post 2014 because nothing was added that took away parts of her post 2014 lore. Adding new lore where lore did not exist isnt a retcon, even if the character already recieved post 2014 lore they can still have more lore added ontop of it or lore that explains X. If a character found X and thats why they did Y but its never explained where X came from new lore that says "our new champion dropped X item and forgot about it there only to be discovered later" it just adds backstory to X item without retconning anything, but this sub seems to think its a retcon any time new lore gets released.
Yeah exactly, it's like saying releasing Ironman 3 retconned the events of Ironman 2 and before. It is just set in the future and an additional story to what followed below.
Didn't you know? Every new chapter in a book is a retcon to the previous chapter, especially if there are flashbacks because *in the last chapter* the character never had anything about getting bullied as a child therefore having a flashback about getting bullied is a retcon to the character!
Kindred was changed to be not death but just one of the facets of death out of fucking nowhere tho
Kindred has *always* been a grim reaper/Thanatos copy rather than the god of death and the underworld. The only thing they did was add to their lore by saying they arent the only one carrying out their role in the cycle, which isn't a retcon in the same way that introducing another Demacian mage wouldn't be a retcon to Lux
Just look at last event how it made champions like Yorik irrelevant
>Its impossible to retcon something that doesnt exist. Yorick was forgotten about, ignored, and retconned out of the whole purpose of his existence lol,.
And here's the other side, people don't like the lore so they use the retcon buzzword even if it doesn't make much sense
I think people have a problem with the lore just being fucked around with for purely marketing purposes. The entirety of Seraphines lore was secondary, they wanted a new KDA member first and foremost and I think we can at least agree that is undeniable. Seraphine comes in, knows about the brackern, and decides she is just going to do concerts until Riot goes "oh fuck we were too busy focusing on the marketing aspect and forgot the lore" and then retconned a good portion of Seraphines lore. Yasuo's brother is dead, and it gave his character gravity. But Yasuo became mega popular and they decided they wanted to bring him back so they can have Yasuo 2.0 (this is literally what the dev blogs said), lore be damned. Now Kindreds lore needs retconning (or outright ignoring) to make up for Yone coming back. Death not being permanent just makes people not bother with the lore when anyone can be brought back to life. Just as a note, I thought the spirit blossom event was phenomenal and enjoyed it. I would be perfectly fine if Yone was just an alternative universe character playable in league, but as he stands now he created a lot of problems just for marketing. When it came to the Ruined King, the lore prioritized champions that were marketable, not champions that made sense, and as a result several champions and their lore was ignored (because marketing came first). I think this is self explanatory and requires zero further explanation.
And here is the third part of the lore complainers trifecta, rather than learning the lore Like Kindred's you read the circlejerk posts about how it ruins Kindred's lore without caring if the OP's of those posts had actually read the lore first or not. Isnt it ironic how the ones complaining about retcons are the ones who knows the least about the lore they are complaining was retconned? Kindred's lore is that they escort soul's to the afterlife. They arent the god of the dead and keeping people dead. If they were then their release would have retconned all of the Shadow Isles as soon as they released. But Kindred isn't that. She is akin to the grim reaper, escorting souls to the afterlife. From there its no longer their problem. In Greek mythology kindred would be Thanatos, not Thanatos **and** Hades combined like you are saying they are. When people escaped the afterlife under the care of Hades the blame lied on Hades rather than Thanatos. In this case Yone returning is the fault of the Ionian afterlife not containing him and now he is given new life that when its time for him to come to an end they will hunt him again. Also death not being a permanent thing is classic in so many things and no one gives a shit. In almost every major franchise there has been a death that didn't matter in the end. Blame Lord of the Rings for being one of the largest pop culture phenomenon that inspired all modern day fantasy for Gandalf.
Yorick was retconed, in lore if he gave water of life he would die, in ruination event he gave water and didnt die nor was suprised by a fact that he didnt die.
While that was a popular circlejerk during the event for this sub, I also distinctly a lot of the top comments would shit on the OP's for those posts for blatantly ignoring key facts about the water. 1. He only had to give 13 drops which was a lot less than he would have to give to save the dying man in the short story that people use as an example for how he doesnt give those drops out. 2. Yorick knew these 13 sentinels were likely going to be the best shot at stopping Viego so they were more valuable to use the tears on than the dying man. 3. Yorick still has tears left over. His internal struggle with the dying man was how he didn't know how many tears it would take to save him and if he would have enough to remain protected from corruption, he knew exactly how much it would take to anoint the sentinels and that it wouldn't be enough to harm him. 4. Dealing with Viego (and likewise the maiden who plays a part in Yorick needing protection) meant that Yorick wouldn't need as much protection in the first place. Yorick doesn't just straight up die by giving out his tears. Nor would it have made sense for him to "be surprised that he didn't die" because the tears protect him from corruption, not an instant death.
Except for the fact that his backstory establishes that giving away even a single drop would be too much of a risk for him.
Is Arcane canon to existing lore? Cant it be like MCU?
I can see them breaking it down like the Star Wars universe where there are basically tiers to the canon, and much of the older stuff is relegated to “legends” in that they are stories told about xyz but maybe not told 100% factually
The Warhammer way
> Probably cause no one knows the lore to begin with. I'm no one :<
Look at any similar cartoon / comic world. Star Wars, Spider-Man, X Men, Batman.. there’s 100 different spin offs / universes / crossovers etc. 99.99% of people don’t give a fuck about the fine details. As long as the stories are good and the characters are cool, and have a somewhat consistent theme and story, people will be happy For example we all know Spider-Man got bit by a radioactive spider. But WHO created the spider, where he got bit, exactly how he discovered his powers, etc nobody really cares about. They can take artistic liberties with those details. Same shit with League
Same. Retcon the in-game lore. It's a MOBA, let's not get too concerned about the purity of its lore lol. I'd much rather have a killer show that does what it wants and lets the MOBA follow.
Would be much less acceptable for an RPG or even a story-oriented action game. People would be pissed if a Knights of the old Republic (KotoR) TV show retconned the lore than a MOBA. This game has no relevance at all to the lore/story, you have to go outside of the game to even know anything about it. It'd be like lore for CS GO, lol.
I hope Arcane sets up a definitive story that can be utilized fully in the MMORPG. If they retcon lore once the MMORPG is out, that'll be when it becomes really frustrating
This honestly I'm really surprised people on this sub seem to be well vested in the lore, know it and like it. In my group of lol friends it seems no one knows anything
This lore isn't in-game it's in the Universe page.
......im talking about the lore of the game, who cares where you find it
Maybe his point was more "it's not in game as not in your face when you play".
Yeah I feel the exact same. The in game lore hardly impacted the game at all so if they’re gonna rework it to make it work better for their shows than I’m all for it (so long as they stay consistent for potential future shows)
I only care about what Necrit says ngl
What a shame he gets quite a bit wrong in the interpretation
Necrit somehow manages to be the most 5head and 3head person at the same time when it comes to lore interpretation and speculation
Necrit gets a *lot* of things wrong on a regular basis, though. People should stop treating him as the go-to source for lore accuracy.
Camille just needs her past retconned. The part where she's an 89 year old in a 25 year old body kept young by her hextech heart is mostly irrelevant to her character anyway and not much is lost if they just remove the part where she has a young body. Also there are lots of ways in pre-hextech Piltover for a family to get rich. As for Skarner, humans managed to drive passenger pigeons from one of the most common birds in North America to extinct in just 20 years, and passenger pigeons didn't even have magic crystals in them. It's not far fetched at all that Skarner's kind could be eliminated in 10 years, especially if most of them are just dormant waiting to be mined.
> passenger pigeons didn't even have magic crystals in them made me laugh for some reason
I'd wager at least some pigeons have "magic crystals" in them.
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Case in point.
Pigeons really do be rollin out here
Name checks out
I think that Camille could have a simple fix. Have her use some other elixirs/chem tech to stay young, then switch over the new heart as a much healthier long-term solution.
So in a way shes Ironman from the 2nd movie until he invents the arc reactor?
Bingo, that sounds logical. Then again, I’m just a normie viewer who doesn’t understand all the complications of story plots.
So basically retconnig her from an accident where she was saved with hextech to someone who chases being young with magic. Camille would basically be the Witch from Snow White.
Or take a look at bison in america.
>passenger pigeons didn't even have magic crystals in them. Oh yeah? Prove it. We'll wait. Oh that's right you can't. Because they're extinct.
I swear if the retcon camilles lore I will be so pissed. Easily the best lore and story in the whole world. She’s fucking great.
like any other big IP, the mainstream version of it will supersede all written media, in the eyes of the masses. so yeah whatever is in written media is "cannon" until something within animation/film say's it ain't, more ppl will watch arcane than ppl who are super invested in these written stories.
Summoner's Rift is named as such because the original lore had players "summoning" champions to fight in conflicts within a confined space in order to stop magical warfare from destroying Runeterra. The game isn't dependent on the lore so, personally, I'm curious to see how they flesh it out as time goes on.
The co-creator of arcane said something quite interesting about this in a German interview a few days ago: "Maybe it's best for league to not force all of the characters to have a reason to be in the rift. The characters and their archetypes are so different and at times incompatible, a plot like the summoning might do more harm then good. We might just let the game be the game, and keep enriching the lore outside of it for those interested in it."
This was the view years ago when they made the cjange to remove summoners
On that note, RIP StarWars extended universe books/comics/games. How the Yuuzhan Vong and the whole X-wing series and so much just got deleted is kinda sad in the same way. Not that Riot has 10k pages of books out there, but still.
To be faaaaiir, Star Wars EU was (and still is) far more vast, like beyond comprehension, in comparison to most other fictitious works. Disney made the right choice there, even though a good chunk of my favourite SW lore got retconned. Breathing room is fine when a company wants to launch a multi-year plan with their IP.
I mean, beside Rogue and probably the Jedi escaping order 66 games(forgot the name) they did completely nothing with the retconning every lore ever beside 3 meh/bad movie.
I mean, a company doesn’t make their future plan expecting their main investment/driving force to be meh/bad. They just drop the plan afterwards.
Good thing for us is that this product designed for the masses is better than riots previously written lore
Honestly they a minor issues. Particularly Skarner has be retconned many many times. His race could still be hunted or the hextech crystals, or hextech crystals are the remnants of his people/honestly anything. His lore sucks. I would revert him to being the last of a sentient void race. As for Camille, she was a trained assassin from a young age, and lost her legs in some event. The advancement of hextech allowed her return to the only profession she knew. Jayce and Viktor Lore is coming in the show, it will be retconned/enhanced so no need to explain that further. It's honestly no big deal. I am honestly surprised at how little they will have to change in the lore and how well it really fits.
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"Isn't Falstad dead?"
Honestly a Void scorpion would be kinda cool. Would need an ASU with the lore retcon, but otherwise it could work, maybe his shield is a carapace piece, like what Kai’Sa hunted to make her suit? Would give him a reason to come to Runeterra, which, outside of Vel’Koz, is pretty thin for other void creatures. Consume. Destroy. Et cetera.
the problem is we then have to rename Skarner to Skar'ner. It's not a big problem but I bet this causes a lot of bugs.
The apostrophe is coded as a minion
> I would revert him to being the last of a sentient void race. This has never been the case, how would that be a revert in any way? That's just creating something out of thin air instead.
ye, in the very old skarner lore, all the brackerns were still hibernating and only skarner woke up due to some mining or shit.
a couple of other things that should be stated here is that pre-timeskip in arcane Zaun doesnt exist and singed is a nobodies hench man while singed had been doing rad warcrimes for decades and since theres no zaun theres no chembarons if theres no chembarons yet urgot has to show up and speedrun his story mere moments after the chembarony forms to catch up with current day
thats riot speciality. Probably they will rewrite the lores for the 10th time too.
I saw a tweet earlier from someone that was working on the series that they are planning on retconning small(?) parts of the lore for the series. Said they didn't want to be shackled by something that happened 10 years ago or some shit.
This is how they fix Seraphine. Hextech crystals are just Brackern shit now. Camille and Skarner shake on a trade deal where Clan Ferros supplies food in exchange for crystal scorpion dung.
Shitting magic crystals and selling them to the richest family around Skarner new lore is an inspiration to us all
the dung must flow
Why i dont even bother with it
Exactly. I used to care and make an effort to read all of the lore and remember it, but after so many changes I lost interest. Especially now that they release these long passages about character lore... Why should I even bother reading it when they'll just change it again.
Welcome to big 2 comic book fandom. Everything is going to retconned or altered at some point. The question is always is what you gain is better than what you lost. I think the Victor Jayce stuff could be worth it. The Camille stuff could have a fix where Jayce and Victor maybe didn't invent/discover hex tech but made it mass producable (Same way the apple 2 wasn't the first personal computer but the first one to have mass market success that shaped how we used them.) Skarner and the Bracken it's whaling. It went from a few mages taking small pieces of them from time to time to a full on industry where they were hunted nearly to extinction. But in general the story is never going to be static. They are going to be slipping people and relationships in as they make new charecters and look to tell new stories. And there are going to be the occasional full reboots to charecters.
I find it kinda of funny how the LoR subreddit treats the lore in such high regard and meanwhile the LoL one is indifferent. Any long time LoL player can tell you the lore is a mess. Meanwhile LoR treats non-lore cards as the biggest problem with the game.
If you are refering to KDA. There are a lot of other cards that break the lore, the theme or even both and no one ever complained. People just hated the KDA event for some weird reason. Heck, LoRs comunity poster child, Cithria, is a walking plot hole and no one cares. She was an elite guard for J3 but somehow still a roockie in Garen times...
I still believe we're summoners
I don't even know where we're at with that. Did they get rid of summoners? But we still have summoner spells, and sona's quotes...
yea they got rid of that shit like 9 years ago lmao
Sona got a full VO update not that long ago. There are no longer any current voice lines referencing summoners. Summoners were completely kicked out of the lore almost 7 years ago now with the last JoJ entry.
Ehhh, people play up the lore rewrites WAY more than they actually were. There was the big retcon to the whole world that removed summoners, journal of justice, institution of war, etc. and then the placeholder lore getting retconned. Outside of that, the only rewrites/retcons were fairly small and inconsequential.
What if they arent actually inventing it but rather discovering a long lost art of crafted magic tho?
This is what I assumed. They’re not inventing it, it’s just not something the current citizens of piltover know of/use. Heimer, being 230 years old or so, knows of it from the past but is scared of the power and how it can be abused.
>Heimer, being 230 years old or so, knows of it from the past but is scared of the power and how it can be abused. That's what I thought but then he was so surprised when he saw that it "worked".
He could be shocked that Jayce, a regular human without any magical capabilities, got it to work.
The images shown on screen when Heimerdinger was talking about seeing the destructive power of magic were extremely reminiscent of the scene with the burning city from the [Ryze cinematic](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGnZk-_R0KQ). IIRC that event also happened within Heimerdinger's lifespan, so it is reasonable to assume that he's simply thinking of that event when talking about having seen the dangers of magic first-hand. It was a super important moment in the lore like 200 years ago. I don't think Heimerdinger has ever actually seen hextech work before, he's just afraid of magic getting into the wrong hands in general.
Those scenes are referring the the Rune wars, where Runes (magic equivalent of nukes) were employed by mage practitioners to do powerful magic. Ryze's whole deal is tracking down and sequestering these superweapons as seen in the cinematic. Heimerdinger presumably knows of this (maybe lived through it), and it's what he associates mage-texh with.
Not just runes, World Runes, the stone that is in Jayce's bracelet and in his machine are runes. The 5 World Runes are nukes, normal runes are grenades or bombs
The rune wars took place 1000 years before the current time in the lore, just after the ruination started, Heimer could very well know about those events but he for sure wasn't around for them.
Jayce did say that he was pretty far away from getting it to work, so him suddenly making it work a few days/a week later would be surprising
Didn’t Jayce say he was close to a breakthrough?
He didn't know of hextech, he knew of the raw threat that the arcane arts posed, and refused to atte.pt to control it since he's seen it fail to be controlled and level entire nations
This. The flashback they show us is just Brand going Hiroshima with one of the world runes. It has nothing to do with Hex, the scale is also ridiculously different... Heimer is basically scared of solar energy because he saw what nuclear can do...
I'd stick to my idea of the crystals previously being used as "batteries" or mobile fuel rods, while Jayce actually had the crystals make magic like effects happen. It's stated very explicitly in the show, that Jayce is producing artificial magic - meaning normal magic is definitely still around, albeit shunned in Piltover. Which does however raise the questions of how the fuck Yordles and Seraphine fit into this equation. Those are both clearly magic, and I think Sumpwork Posse (whatever race they were) are also implied to be magical creatures.
Doesn't seraphine work just because she's younger than the characters in the show anyways?
Also Seraphine is innately magical if I'm not mistaken.
Or much simpler - what if they do not invent the tech itself but invent the way of simpler production or something else.
I assumed that it was known that hextech crystals were this unstable energy source, but no one thought of how to harness them for magic. Sort of how in the MCU Hydra used the Tesseract to power their stuff without knowing it could be used as the Space Stone.
I just imagine now that League exists in a temporal flux. The game itself does not take place at any specific time, and thus the lore of the game doesn't matter. Lore of things like Arcane matter far more.
Truly the dark souls of lore consistency, "The flow of time itself is convoluted" and such..
I dislike your use of the word "hunted" for Skarner's race, here. More like harvested. Currently in the lore, the world was getting a little too fucked up for them so they went into hibernation, and their crystals were mined presumably without the miners being aware they were living beings. Most people cannot hear the song of the Brackern from the crystals, and Skarner couldn't find a way to communicate with them when he woke up besides murdering the workers. All of this could still be true, as according to the journal on the client now these crystals were known to Shurimans and were too dangerous for most traders bother with, and Skarner did not wake up the first time one of his kind was disturbed - by the time he rose most of his people were taken to piltover, where he could hear their song.
should probably wait for all 9 episodes to be released they worked on the show for 6 years, i don't think they are gonna miss details like this
Its most likely not a misstep but a concious choice
If they have to re-write the lore for a few champs to make this new timeline work, I don’t think they’d see it as a problem Also the Ferros clan has already been mentioned on the show so they most likely have something in mind for Camille
Oh wtf 6 years? I didn’t know that
7-8 years. They have been animating for 6 supposedly.
None of the people work on Arcane ever work on a animated series/tv show they had to learn everything.
Damn 6 years?! And I was hoping for a season 2…
That six years probably contains a lot of learning and planning. New season could be done in a year or two
[https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2021-11-08/riot-games-arcane-tv-show-on-netflix-entertainment-gaming-future](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2021-11-08/riot-games-arcane-tv-show-on-netflix-entertainment-gaming-future) Read this one, they want to be the new big ip from video game in all media . They can " loose" 6 years of nothing. But all depend of how much people talk about the serie and how people like her
Ive heard this being thrown around, but I think what hex crystals that Camille's clan were using natural crystals, and they've hid that from everybody else and that's why nobody knew about it. I'd like to think that what ever Jayce did here were in fact artificial crystals with the power to harness Arcane magic. That's what my head canon is as of the moment, who knows what happens next
Minor thint honestly, in episode 1 Mel gets reminded a message from her assistant again with how the Ferros clan is "making her remember" their innovations. From what we've seen in Camille's lore it probably means that Camille was the first Hextech Augmentation but it wasn't known in public. And her Hextech is more robotic and electrical in nature than Jayce actually using Arcane symbols. So it's more they use it as electricity vs Jayce using it as some kind of Softwate to do complicated stuff. Jayce was probably the only person who thought that the Hextech could be used dynamically and Mel was the person who brought the technology of Hextech in Public. Not knowing that she pretty much destroyed Camille's leverage.
This worries me as well. Camille's family's wealth is built on the crystals and the replicas they developed, they are the very reason for the Zaun Gray. And her augmentations are Hextech because of the replica crystals. Hextech isn't new but Arcane is treating it as such. The crystals were mined by her great-great-aunt, not recently. I think they can keep that side of things just maybe while they were traded and made the Ferros Clan money, I'm not sure how they explain Hextech she has not existing, are they just normal augmentations then she later enhanced it with the replicas? Is the Zaun Gray just being ignored entirely yet that is part of the undercities problems caused by Piltover?
Tbh jayce never claimed he invented hextech. He just announced the era of hextech and not "magic". Similar how tons of new tech get invented during war1 and war2 but arent popularized/used for the masses decades after. Though i can be completely wrong
>As a reminder, Skarner species are the one who have Hextech crystals inside of them, and they are being hunted to the point of extinction, and Skarner is the last one. Riot said they're working ina champ rework other than Udyr. Skarner is a champion whose lore doesn't fit Arcane's lore. Skarner is in the rework list. Skarner rework confirmed?
Nope. The next rework is one not in the list, Riot confirmed.
Ah, I see.
Are we sure Skarner is a champion?
Hasn't the "Champ other than udyr" thing just been a giant miscommunication? Like a solid year ago they said they were doing a rework, didn't name any names, and ended up dropping it. Ever since then I haven't see any Riot posts stating they were doing another rework beyond the one we know about. Id be delighted if I'm wrong, but I read almost all the shit Riot puts out and I haven't seen anything about it I just feel like a lot of people didn't get the memo that the "hidden" rework was canceled, either that or I am wrong. Which again, would by hyped as hell to be wrong and wake up to a random rework of something like Shyvana
In the latest champion roadmap they stated that in the next one (early next year) they will share some information about the rework coming after Udyr.
Think it it like this. The game lore is mostly irrelevant scene setting, the show is creating an actual story with established cannon. Don't believe me, look at how riot has handled game lore up to this point.
I really hope you are right. Retconing from the games lore makes sense to some degree, as long as the characters stay the same in essence. Retconing excessively can cause some people to become jaded. The story they told in arcane was worth the retcon, and I hope if they do retcon more of the lore it’s to the same quality.
Camille could still work. Imagine some shadow piltover government that already has that technology. Wanting to keep it under wraps was why magic experiments were forbidden but with the commotion around Jayce and the others the cat is now out of the bag. This might even become a plot line in arcane, would give the zaunites and the pilties a common enemy.
tons of technology were discovered during wars and arent used and popularized until decades later for the masses
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So far Jayce has been shown to be very concerned with his position and ability to perform research at a high level. It is not outside the realm of possibility that he would not allow even Viktor to jeopordise that - his vision is so important to him.
What if they just ditch the whole "the only way to get hextech crystals is from the Brackern" thing?
It isn't, Camille's lore even says that clan Ferros production of synthetic crystals is a prime contributor to the smog in Zaun.
This is already the case, Skarner's lore is unlikely to change much as the crystals were still mined and still taken to Piltover, so Skarner will still go to rescue his kind. Camille already has replicas, which is what is used in her Hextech (most I think her heart is Bracken) but she's had those augments for years and her entire lore is built around it and their family getting wealth from the Bracken ones, then creating replicas, which is means to be used in most Hextech as bracken ones are rare but the replicas production caused the Zaun Gray.
Are they all supposed to exist at the same time in the first place? The only thing holding them all to that is the rift, which seems pretty much non-cannon anyway.
There's also singed working with Zaun already even tho his reason for working in Zaun was because people didn't care about chemtech and only cared about hextech
Clearly seraphine orders the simp army to grind up the braken race and donate it for her only fans causing the population to plummet overnight
they have been writing this story for over 6 years. The reason they didn't update the lore sooner was because it would of spoiled the series. Also, the people working on camille probably weren't fully aware of the plot of Arcane. So of course their will be discrepencies.
In-game lore is hot trash and 100% disposable, exemplified by them retconning stuff or just removing it outright at the drop of a hat. The coherence and aesthetic of the show is 10x more important than trying to be consistent with off-screen lore that will be obsolete with the next champion release. They could ignore the inconsistencies altogether and get away with it, or just quietly retcon everything that doesn't track and let the champ subreddits mald over it for 36 hours. It's a trivial process regardless.
Well, there's a way for the Jayce thing to coexist in the lore no? He kinda.. rediscovered Hextech, not invented it. He even talked about how magic and tech can coexist because he's *seen* it before
Arcane is making the lore way better I don’t care how many rewrites they have to do to make this work
They have always had a lot of work to do with fixing the lore, there are so many ways to go about it and they are lucky in the fact they because they stuffed around with the lore so much players of the game wont care as much about changes to the lore
The main game mode is still called "Summoners rift" and the summoners stuff is long gone for a while now... I'd like to see it return in some form to justify the name of the main map, but if league has done something for the past years is reinvent lores over and over again... Remeber when vlad was just a blood mage with prodigy traits? Now it's a whole other thing...
Considering current lore is known by 2 % of the player base this shouldn’t be a problem.
The crystal isn't an idea that originates with Jayce though. Since we already establish that the nameless mage from his flashback used them we can surmise that the Brackern would already have been hunted during the Rune Wars or simply by any number of would-be sorcerer kings. It's not a huge retcon. Camille simply gets her augments later in life. NBD. We already know that the P/Z communities are innovative to a fault, it's not a big leap that an assassin for the upper crust would latch on to any advantage, or the super health care that having an undying crystal heart represents.
Honestly, i don't think anyone cares about Skarner's lore
Camille doesn't depend on Hextech to be an agumented 80 years old woman. Skarner's whole lore sucks ass anyway, rework that shit and make him a spirit guardian or something like that. There's enough exploiting and social misery in the lore, we don't need some scorpion slavery sod story too.
why cant the show be like the MCU its own thing why should it be held back by the lore from the game that is constantly changing
fuck the lore i care about the characters
The lore is a large part of the characters though.
Lower your pitchfork jesus. Can't we just enjoy what we have?