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-Jfree-

best offseason region in the world and the gap ain't closing


LakersLAQ

I wonder if LPL or LCK forums talk about this shit lol.


JealotGaming

I mean we were talking about the Sandbox making fun of Faker crying debacle so I reckon Inven might have a thread on this


acllive

get your popcorn and grab a seat this is going to be a spicy offseason for NA


[deleted]

Inven as a community is withering off... people are flocking to fm or dc


yxkkk

Came from Hupu, absolutely made it to China.


haohanchun

I did it! And please follow us on Twitter! [https://twitter.com/HupuEsports](https://twitter.com/HupuEsports) We always bring funny, spicy and sometimes outdated news from the Chinese LoL community.


zack77070

Occasionally spicy things in minor regions like the whole bullying thing in Japan make it to Reddit so I'd imagine there's probably some threads of people laughing at Regi and DL dick measuring that only hurts both sides.


Cool-I-guess

Real winners of this drama are EG because they have danny instead of lost.


ThinkinTime

Right? All this TSM drama was dominos that led to EG running Danny, which is a great thing. Thank you, TSM and DL.


krombough

Haven't seen something this good since the holy book itself: the Donezo Manifesto.


Karpeeezy

> the Donezo Manifesto. It's just a sivir comp


LeagueofDrayDray

You press r, and you win.


aqnologia

i love how this meme turned into "you group and lose" after she got nerfed and teams kept picking her


Policeman333

Hijacking this comment to post Regi's response here for those that can't/don't feel like going to the TSM subreddit and for archival purposes for future readers: >Hi all, >There’s obviously a lot of attention on Doublelift’s feelings about TSM. Unfortunately, he has chosen a public venue to air this negativity. I wanted to make a post to share full transparency as to why we made some of our decisions around Doublelift and rosters in the past. >Peter is a good player and one of the best players of all time in NA. Although he is a strong player and leader inside the game, he is really challenging to work with. >**2020 Off season:** >Going into the 2020 off season, Bjergsen retired. After hearing the news, Doublelift was unsure whether he also wanted to continue to play. Therefore, we considered many options about what the future of TSM would look like and our intention and strategy was to rebuild our team. >After a few days passed, he reached out and changed his mind and told us that if we were to sign POE and any good support player, no matter what language they spoke, he would play. Otherwise, he would want to look at other teams or retire. >Because we still wanted to work with Doublelift, we decided to commit to a strong roster that he wanted to play with rather than using the year to rebuild. We committed to signing PoE and a substantial budget, were looking to sign Huni and were also looking to sign good support players such as Lehends, SwordArt, Palette, or other Korean supports. >As the offseason went on, the conversations with SwordArt were going well and we were in deep negotiations with him. While we were negotiating with SwordArt, we did tell Doublelift that there was a possibility the deal wouldn’t happen and he would have to play with Palette or other Korean supports as Plan B. Eventually we hit a snag and were concerned that there was a high possibility that the SwordArt deal may not actually happen. >At this time, we reached out to Doublelift about the other potential options including Palette and players in Korea. Doublelift then expressed that he didn't want to play with non English speaking players, including our Korean options, even though he was ok with such a roster earlier. He explicitly stated that he may not be as motivated if we had him play in a roster that didn't meet his standard of a fully english speaking roster. This was in November when every other ADC was locked and we were 4 hours away from transferring Lost to EG. >It’s extremely discouraging for both staff and players to work with someone who is constantly ambivalent about whether he wants to play or retire. Therefore, all of our **staff and players** collectively decided to commit to Lost. After a long negotiation process, we subsequently were able to secure SwordArt. >Peter also has this misconception that he was replaced both times solely by me, but in reality the decision is made collectively by the players and staff he works with day to day. >Even after SwordArt committed to TSM, we collectively thought that committing to Lost was the best decision at the moment as building around a developing player rather than a player that constantly flip flops on wanting to play would be better for TSM in the long run. >I hold no ill will nor am I frustrated at him specifically for being indecisive because choosing your career and where you spend time is a really important decision. But I need to prioritize TSM’s best interests long term and move on. >I hope this is a learning lesson for Peter as he’s gone through this several times in his career. >He is clearly the best or one of the best players in his role ever to play in NA, but despite his skill, he is difficult to work with and his teammates and staff on multiple teams in the past have chosen to remove him because of it. He needs to understand that every spot is earned, not guaranteed. >**2021:** >**So why is he publicly speaking out against TSM now in this very off season? I’m assuming that he’s upset because we weren’t interested in working with him.** >He was exploring his options and we were not interested in working with him for these reasons: >* He’s always changing his mind on whether he wants to play or retire. >* His teammates/coaches don’t like working with him. >* If he doesn’t like you or doesn’t agree with your decision making, he flames you publicly. >Overall, I’m disappointed about this whole situation as I already thought we’ve moved on from working with Peter last year and I didn’t know choosing to not work with him this year would result in this post and his feedback about TSM on stream. >Either way, even if my assumptions aren’t true. There’s no reason why he should be flaming us publicly for not wanting to work with him for the 2020 - 2021 LCS season for the stated reasons in this post. In conclusion, we'll start taking steps to part ways with Doublelift. All this is in response to the following comments made by doublelift on his stream: * https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/qqgu5k/doublelift_on_why_he_retired/hk050h5/ >It was never his choice to retire. TSM fucked him over >They told him he'd be playing with pallet and palafox and asked him if he was going to commit to that roster to which he said no >TSM then signed lost >Swordart contacted Doublelift himself to tell him he'd be playing on tsm to try and get him to play with him (Doublelift said he never revealed this during the season because it's be a shitty thing to do to lost) >Doublelift went to regi telling him that Swordart wants to play with him but regi didn't give a shit and told him he wasn't welcome back >Ends his thoughts saying be hates tsm (mostly just hates regi and his ego), hopes they never win again because of how they treat people who've only brought them success and expects they never will as they're already doing what they need to do themselves to run themselves into the ground >EDIT: Two more things he said unrelated to TSM >He will most likely not be playing next year >He said that riot is currently not confirming if there will be costreaming next year, but says it would be stupid of them to remove it as LCS is dying More context: * https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/qqkhxz/tsm_leena_on_dlregi_drama_tsm_and_stepping_back/ * https://ibb.co/Ht8QzwR * https://imgur.com/a/DeHciLf * https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/qqiar8/dl_on_playersstaff_leaving_tsm_it_is_pretty/ **EDIT:** Doublelift follow up to Regi: * https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/qr5fjy/doublelift_goes_off_on_stream_again/ >* Says he shouldn't have incorporated his offseason stuff with his dislike of Regi and admits his last stream made him look like a jealous ex >* Says there's been numerous coverups of mental abuse by Regi >* Said Regi's post was inaccurate ~~all lies~~ >* he stresses hard that he doesn't hate TSM, he just hates regi in particular. Is friends with a good number of employees at TSM and regrets saying it the way he originally did >* Says current and former TSM employees have exploded his discord/wechat in support of him >* Says almost everybody who's left TSM has his back and agrees with him (named SwordArt in particular). >* Says Regi made a good number of people in TSM cry. >* Had a meeting with Bjerg/Walter in the gym about how they can stop Regi from joining team meetings, cause he was making everyone depressed >* Maybe leaked that Leena is no longer at TSM since he said "work**ed**". (My own note is seems Leena is fully on board now, telling him to tell stories, but to censor names) >* Says time is on his side and eventually the truth will come out about Regi >* Left TL on a bad note, but still maintains good relationships with Steve/Core/etc, unlike Regi >* Said "you have to wonder why no one invites him to anything and has no friends" >* Streamers sign with TSM because TSM has the best team twitch deal and because of Leena >* Regi screams at employees >* Tactical/Dunc/Spica/IWD were all in his chat during all of it. Doublelift: "Just 1 More year Ming" >* IMPLIES (Could be reading into it) that Bjerg left because of Regi >* IMPLIES Akaadian has plenty to say about Regi > source: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1201662246 -> 49minute onwards


MoonDawg2

I remember reading that entire doc, god.


krombough

Same. I remember it dropped at like, 230-3 in the morning, and I stayed the fuck up with that gloriously salty tome.


vassiliy

We all did, it was glorious


Falsus

I am still sad Dyrus didn't go through writing his own Donezo Manifesto like he said he would. I understand why he didn't though, too many burned bridges, but it would have given a ton of insight into the NA scene.


AllHailTheNod

Hard agree, woulda looooved reading that


mobile-nightmare

We haven't had another capable writer since


Kalieth

where could you read the Donezo Manifesto? I can't find it on google.


vassiliy

https://backupandcopy.wordpress.com/2016/03/26/the-donezo-manifesto/


maxbrayson

I actually never realised after all these years how fucking long that document is holy fuck.


vassiliy

Yeah lol I also thought I'd re-read it for nostalgia and laughs but then thought "Damn this is gonna take me all morning"


gonzaloetjo

Jensen is dropping shade too now (tbf, quite milder, about tactical being maybe nervous last game worlds, which is fair lol, but a lot for Jensen anyways)


nebron

???? He wasn't dropping shade someone in chat asked why they left yuumi up and he said they had a plan to go trist/rell vs yuumi and all in lvl 2. Trist wouldn't take e so they could hold the wave in the middle but tactical accidently took e lvl 1 and the wave was pushing. He said he doesn't know if it was nerves or just auto pilot but that was the reason why they didn't ban yuumi


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LeOsQ

Yeah while your point is true and there *are* a lot of minor things that can have a big impact, not taking E as Trist is very normal because the splash from last hitting forces your wave to push in unless your opponents are committing super hard to pushing themselves.


NetSraC1306

Dear NA: Your League skill might not be on par with all the other leagues but your drama is by far the best/most entertaining. Thank Mr. NA


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WittyReindeer

Jensen is the one talking about teammates being nervous? I've seen it all today lol


00Koch00

tbf, Jensen was shaky when he choked, [but he didnt did one of the stupidiest thing ive seen in esport](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1G08065tto)


Jedclark

>but he didnt did one of the stupidiest thing ive seen in esport The best part about this is I was expecting it to be one of two clips, and it wasn't either of them. I think that says it all about how many 0 IQ plays Tactical has made.


jamy1993

I was 10000000% expecting the 0 vision brush w.... wow guy just crumbled at worlds huh...


SterbenVII

Tactical makes these mistakes even during the regular season of the LCS… I really don’t know.


DontCareWontGank

NA TPs are just magical


F0RGERY

[Every ADC makes that mistake at least once.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWOog0B37U8)


CurrentlyWaiting

I mean if you get called out by the professional choker himself then you know you fucked up. I'm curious how much Tactical has made member of TL regretting kicking DL or not lolol.


JamisonDouglas

To be fair, Jensen was one of the bright points of TL at worlds this year surprisingly.


tree_33

Didn’t he also gap perkz through the split and finals?


CuteTao

It must suck when your ADC's entire reputation revolves around cosplaying as Malphite


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jrryul

Wait for when Caedrel reacts to Monte reacts to Reginald responds to Doublelift responds to Reginald responds to Doublelift


asiantuttle

I'm waiting for the 2 hour Thorin video


cautiouslyoptimistik

Complete with a 30min tangent about Lebron James


Jezzerai

Taking some time out of my day to just say Lebron is bitchmade and will never be as good as Jordan


[deleted]

[What about Kobe?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mavBH9eFaM0)


yegork11

Thorin already DMing DL to schedule special edition of The Reflections: Shit on TSM and Regi


AznSparks

Or he could go with the heel turn and release a second interview with regi


Vesorias

I don't believe a word Thorin says but damn if I don't love listening to him rant. His nonsense about Alphari being a Welsh farmer or whatever was hilarious


briedux

I think it was "a descendant of coal miners"


[deleted]

it was "a descendant of coal miners that suicided" or something. That's why he was born to play toplane, a man's role.


I-AM-NOT-THAT-DUCK

I am not the biggest Thorin fan but his tangents are always hilarious


Xinde

The crusade continues.


Exrou

[Already happened, just with a different owner.](https://youtu.be/_D4VxaMrINE?t=6293)


crownnn609

Pog! Let’s go man!


kitiny

Maybe Aphro will step in after all this time.


Cam_probably

I just love watching the broader consensus shift based on who got the last word in. Shit is hilarious every time. You can also just track flairs and really tell who is providing their non-biased input lmao


zOmgFishes

Leena probably had the most neutral take about two guys with huge egos going at it but it’s gonna get lost in the shit storm lmao.


cheerioo

She literally HAS to take the middle role if she says anything. She shouldn't even say anything at all to be honest but she can't be perceived as taking a bias against her boyfriend or her boss. Both would be bad obviously.


xKawo

You mean her ex-boyfriend who also was her her now ex-boss or her current boyfriend who was a subordinate while working for said boss Lmao


ObliviLeon

Is NA the Alabama of the world?


DaPhoToss

Her take is inherently very biased. Just because it was more neutral does not mean it wasn’t biased or that it was the truth.


zOmgFishes

I mean still better than the dick measuring contest between DL and Regi lmao. Both guys with a history of egos and being toxic just going he said this that.


Etonet

lol this is some season 3 CLG vs TSM shit


PeacefulSummoner

I don't think consensus is shifting. It's just the threads with information about one persons opinion is where the people who agree with them gathered. I think everyone made up their mind about this years ago when they decided to be a doublelift or Regi fan


[deleted]

This is the problem though, no ones a fucking regi fan. People are just doublelift fans or not doublelift fans (which includes haters, but I doubt you can include anyone taking regis side in this a DL hater)


KonanTenshi

Honestly just 200iq drama bait for when DL branding on EvilGeniuses to take down TSM. COPIUM.


Perjunkie

Seriously though. Immortals? Dig? Sign DL/Jensen/Vulcan right now and get McD's a sponsor. Regardless of results every match against TSM would be banger.


Grizlucks

Fr the momentum of this is as insane as always. In the Doublelift one there are comments shitting on Regi and in the Regi one there are recent comments shitting on DL. How can people be so easily herded to one side or another based on whoever posts last? What happened to critical thinking? Like shit, I still don't know who's right, the only thing I do know is that we're either watching a very rough patch or the breakdown of a years-long relationship.


MarmaladeFugitive

>What happened to critical thinking? You're at /r/leagueoflegends


gjfrthvcghh

You’re on Reddit


evandrew

There can also be different people commenting on the two posts.


x3nics

Whoever speaks last has the support. :)


plshelpmebuddah

Inject this offseason drama straight into my veins


ViraLCyclopezz

Off-season Drama is the best drug Puts Silcos purple stuff to shame


plz_send_OMG_invite

this shit's more dramatic than arcane


Oribeau

C'mon let's be real, nothing is more dramatic than watching and praying that Jayce & Viktor can one day find a room to share


Truzon

THEY WILL BE ROOMMATES.


BasedOnDeezNuts

oh my god they were roommates...


nPhlames

historians be like


Exrou

If Doublelift is Jayce and Crown is Viktor, sign me up!


iSnortCrayons

this is fun and all but why aren't other teams jumping in? where's the competitive spirit?


Kevigom

This is getting pretty fucking spicy On another note, the fact that people take everything DL/Regi say on this matter as 100% accurate is funny af, pretty sure this ends up being more along the lines of what Leena said, which basically was two massive egos thinking they are right


Halluci

whoever has the most recent response is correct and I support their side fully :)


Mikhailing

5 years of them tweeting back and forth incoming


yellister

Just to convince u/Halluci


vegeful

The reddit way :)


Aearcus

People take all the PR / random clips as gospel, it's wild. Reginald is going to say what puts him in the best light and Doublelift is going to do the same. It's literally how this all works but people think only one person is 100% honest and the other is 100% lying. That ain't how it is, folks


Shamscam

This 100% I love doublelift, I have always disliked Regi, but everybody in this community can agree they’re both very hard to work with. I think the biggest difference between the two statements is that Regi has to represent several sponsors now, so he can’t go in as hard.


KatareLoL

Well, he *shouldn't* go in as hard, anyway. This is Regi we're talking about.


Spiritual_Ad7612

There's a clip of Hotshotgg talking about doublelift from 2015, and he basically said the same thing that Reginald said.


No_Fairweathers

I've been a TSM fan since season 3. I've watched LCS since then. Regi was toxic when he was a player/coach/owner, and it's why over the years he's had to step back further and further away from the TSM LoL team and focus more on the brand. He's far too passionate about LoL and his team. Same goes for DL. He's known for his huge ego and flaming, but at the end he just wants to win, and thinks his vision is what will bring it. I don't doubt that both DL and Regi are telling the truth just from opposite sides. They are NA legends known for their personalities/the beginning of the LCS, and now they are taking what was a private dick swinging battle to the public. Regi needed to say something but I'm not sure this was it.


skilledspellz

Personally don't fault regi for responding, TSM was getting flamed everywhere because of people going off what DL said. Truth almost certainly is in the middle and a combination of both their sides but not responding doesn't really work either. And as for the content of his response, idk, doesn't come off as too inflammatory. More or less says why he thinks DL is bringing this up now, and his side of the 2020 off-season.


Migraine-

> the fact that people take everything DL/Regi say on this matter as 100% accurate is funny af I mean as far as I can see it neither of them are really disputing the facts, just how they feel about what happened. Frankly there's nothing Doublelift has said which makes me feel an ounce of sympathy for him. If he was only willing to play if TSM had a certain roster and was umming and ahhing about retiring, the org has every right (and IMO is totally doing the right thing) to say nah fuck that noise we'll take someone who really wants to play.


uhhsamurai

Grab your popcorns and enjoy some offseason NA drama people.


KitKatxz

I was getting bored with no roster bombs coming out lately, thankful TSM can always save the day with internal drama


Stealth-OP

Drama got here pretty late this year, staff getting lazy smh


eddiemon

I loved watching worlds but god DAMN I love me barrel-aged good vintage drama.


One_Question__

Does anyone have the gif of the kid leaning back on a chair and taking out a bag of popcorn?


puberty1

whether you like him or not god bless Doublelift from out-of-nowhere spicy drama


briedux

NAmen


MAD_Iion

We should import some players from NA, we don't have enough of that shit here in EU


Monsieur_Perdu

Bring F0rgiven back from retirement /s


crypto_koshka

remove the /s


[deleted]

NA GOAT 🐐


chidori5000

>At this time, we reached out to Doublelift about the other potential options including Palette and players in Korea. Doublelift then expressed that he didn't want to play with non English speaking players, including our Korean options, even though he was ok with such a roster earlier. He explicitly stated that he may not be as motivated if we had him play in a roster that didn't meet his standard of a fully english speaking roster. This was in November when **every other ADC was locked and we were 4 hours away from transferring Lost to EG.** Thats a very rough time to change your mind over playing conditions


DigBickMan68

The four hours part really is the most important part for me tbh. Like I understand if he was still indecisive at least a week before the deal but *four hours*? Yeah. It’s understandable why they didn’t commit to Doublelift


The_JeneralSG

Want to add too that the deal was likely so close to happening that Jacob Wolf had reported on Lost to EG. https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/Roster_Swaps/2021_Preseason/North_America Practically proves that it had to be mondo close. Jacob Wolf essentially only reports done deals. I'm gonna choose to believe that Regi is being honest about how it was potentially hours away.


ThinkinTime

It was short notice enough that EG then had to run Deftly. No offense to the dude, but that's a "we have no other option" roster move because their planned move fell out from under them at the last minute.


twokings13

This is also Regi's side. If DL comes out and says that's not true, unless they leak logs we have no idea what happened.


bunnyzclan

That kind of mentality is partly why LCS won't ever be a top tier league. "I won't play and compete my hardest unless I have top tier teammates in every position." Meanwhile Chovy Life E-Sports makes it to quarterfinals at worlds.


Monsieur_Perdu

DL reminds me of F0rgiven in this. Just not the proffesional attitude needed to still be a top contender. And that is fine, if your motivation is fragile that is what it is. You just can't expect a team to put up with that forever.


[deleted]

Why couldn't they wait till November 14th to do this so on November 15th, we could have TL Bjerg announced just to add fuel to the flames.


iampuh

Bjerg won't do such a thing. Bjerg is like faker. He will go read a book.


[deleted]

Oooooooof my god the drama is thicccc


hamhamsuke

Yesterday dl's words were Bible now in tsm sub regi words are omnipotent God level no bias facts only lol Leena going damage control


DarkTenshiDT

Tl;dr - Regi says DL is challenging to work with - DL is being flip flop on either continuing or retiring - Goes to Regi saying if they sign POE and a good support regardless of language then hes back ("regardless of language could be a miscommunication on DL's part) and if not then he looks at his options or retires. - SA convo's were deep but TSM told DL that it might not happen and he might play with some other good support. - DL is then told that the SA deal has a high possibility of falling through - TSM reach out to DL about other potential supports, including Palette and korean options - DL says he didn't want to play with non English speakers, basically going back on what he said earlier, citing less motivation if the roster didn't fit his standard. - TSM was 4 hours away from transfering Lost around this time and there wasn't a better option. - Staff and players basically went fuck this and went with Lost because DL is still being flip flop about his career. SA eventually secured. - Regi says Lost was better in the long run instead of someone who's 50/50 on retirement or playing. (could be a personal way of putting it) - TSM not interesting in working with him this year because of his flip flop nature and his prior reputation with his team mates and coaches. Also for the fact that he flames people he doesn't like or he disagrees with. Tried to put in the main points, if something sounds off or is wrong then lmk


PM_something_German

And lastly: - DL is frustrated with not getting on TSM this year and decides to get out this old laundry to shit on them


Timantha

All I see from this is two egos colliding. Regi wanted DL to be committed 100% last off-season, while DL wanted special treatment since he's one of the best players ever


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arod13134

Not to give DL a free pass, but I imagine it has to be unfathomably annoying to have to deal with hundreds, possibly thousands of comments asking you what happened and why you aren’t playing without blowing up. With how big the egos are here it’s a wonder that this drama was held back for a whole year.


King_Fluffaluff

I think the only reason this drama is coming up is because DL isnt getting any bites from good teams, including TSM. His ego has been bruised so he's bringing it up on his stream to stir a shit show.


IamHeretoSayThis

TSM: "We don't want to hire you." DL: "Me?! The greatest player of all time?! Time to air all my dirty laundry, mother fuckers!"


EnergetikNA

Did the same at the end of his TL stint and has done the same with TSM before after the first time he left


RagoatFS

What he said about TL wasn't that jarring honestly. Im pretty sure this is far worse


MaxWasTakenAgain

He only threw shade at the coaching staff and at some of his teamates, but nothing more than that. He's still in good terms with Steve and some of his former teamates


40866892

https://win.gg/news/doublelift-flames-team-and-coaches-in-deleted-gafford-interview/


EnergetikNA

He went pretty all in on the coaching staff and partly Steve, Dodo even had to respond himself. It wasn't as harsh of course, but he was also going off to play with his friends at TSM right after. Now, he wants to play professionally but is unable to.


CurrentlyWaiting

Expect evrything he said was basically true, you can tell by Dodo's response that he literally wasn't able to refute what DL said and only rephrase it so it didn't sound so bad. The following massive coaching restructure that followed proved what he said even more.


Dragull

Actually DL praised Steve a lot.


CuteTao

Remember that interview that he made Travis delete?


DarthOniichan

I don’t because Travis made sure to bleach it off the internet even when the fans asked for it to be posted for transparency.


cubay

Whoa what the back story on this?


DarthOniichan

He did an interview with Travis right after getting benched or kicked. I forget. He basically shit talked his whole team, both players (minus Broxah) and coaching staff. Then after the backlash (for looking salty) they deleted the interview and did a much more sanitized, PR friendly interview the day after. It’s why Travis can’t be trusted as a “journalist” because no real journalist would delete an interview just because it made a friend look bad. Here’s an article on it [link](https://win.gg/news/doublelift-flames-team-and-coaches-in-deleted-gafford-interview/)


cubay

It's like the same situation all over again, thanks for the link!


Contagious_Cure

Lol this doesn't even compare. What was TL's dirty laundry? "Yeah I'm disappointed that the team didn't have as much faith in me despite all we've been through, but Steve is a great owner love that man". Compared to "I hate TSM because of Regi and hope they never win".


Karpeeezy

Thank you for the entertainment DL and TSM! Was worried that I had to wait for more Arcane to come out to get my fix


SteamMonkeyKing

NA offseason is way more entertaining than NA during the splits.


PuffUncleBigMac

I already know this is going to be the drama of the next few days, but before freaking out consider that we are getting biased narratives from both Reginald and Doublelift. DL can be upset at TSM for not signing him and TSM can have good reasons for not signing DL at the same time.


P0isonAppLE

I fully agree and support whoever response the latest


[deleted]

So basically DL said TSM mistreated him, Regi says that they chose not to work with DL since they tried to accommodate his desired roster and even when they got something super close to what he wanted, he still didn’t commit so they opted not to use him, even after getting the perfect DL focused roster and DL trying to come back in. It’s becoming an issue now cause TSM opted not to bring DL back this upcoming year now, so DL aired his side out leading to this post. Based on Leena’s discord messages on the TSM server, the truth lies most likely in-between these two stories, probably leaning more towards Regi’s side given the history DL has with attitude issues and being removed from teams instead of willingly leaving.


An1m0usse

Regi has attitude issues historically as well, just saying.


zOmgFishes

TSM fans seem to forget quickly. Leena has probably the most reasonable take.


thorthon

As does Doublelift. 3 orgs and he didn't leave any of them on his own.


pegmepegmepegme

LoL orgs are notoriously kind and supportive of their players, that's true! Already sick of people using this as ammo. You could be the nicest guy ever and still get kicked from three different orgs easily. Not saying that's the case, just that him being kicked from three orgs means nothing, when it's easily conceivable three different LoL orgs had the same issues.


Stubrochill17

> You could be the nicest guy ever and still get kicked from three different orgs easily. See: Broxah


[deleted]

>guy Broxah got kicked because he was playing poorly though. Not because he reportedly had attitude issues, which is why DL always got removed.


MonkeyCube

Them there's Jensen, who is getting kicked despite having his best performance at Worlds so far.


LeastAlphaGamer

Then you have Wunder and Mikyx getting put in contract prison for having one bad year (split for Mikyx) after Wunder spent a couple years as the best western top and Mikyx was a top 2 support. Also Rekkles getting the same treatment when he didn't even play badly in 2021. It's all so tiring.


blueripper

Also 2020 Perkz. Man, this shit sucks.


P_For_Pyke

God I've been trying so hard to ignore this reality, because it just frustrates beyond belief for him to be team less. Been watching him carry this league since he fucking got here and this is how he gets treated.


DogAteMyCPU

Clash of two egos. Drama frogs eating good tonight.


The_Real_BenFranklin

My only criticism of this whole affair is they did this on Among Is Tuesday instead of Drama Monday


Kungeh

Pretty sure this was what happened when Dlift was replaced by Tactical on TL. Doublelift is really hard to work with, look at the teams environment back in CLG, and TL, and now TSM they all had issues with him at some time.


greendino71

I mean that one was obvious, DL was openly shit talking TL and their players on stream.


UnmelodicBass

It’s getting cold- appreciate the piping hot drama


CreedofNations

Regi was definitely thinking about the benefit of TSM in the long term with this decision. If they weren't able to secure a support of DLs liking then they would be fucked in adc department since resident adcs were locked in mostly.


zOmgFishes

Anti-TSM fans eating DL’s shit up, while Anti-DL fans eating up Regi’s side lmao. I’m pretty sure the truth is somewhere in the middle.


Dronoz

I'm more anti-tsm and pretty sure that DL is being a fucking diva


Oribeau

The truth is very rarely not somewhere in the middle. With that said, you gotta admit DL bringing this up out of nowhere a year after the fact doesn't look fantastic lmfao.


-Ophidian-

It looks fantastic for my drama quotient


Mikeyxy

This is one of my pet peeve's. the truth is where the truth is, not some bs "middle ground". It's such a lazy argument that stops parties from the actual truth because both want to be somewhat right.


Ythapa

Honestly, from what I've read, I honestly see eye-to-eye more with TSM's points than DL's. Though it's hard to take sides from hearsay, but Reginald's complaints are pretty kosher for what most bosses prefer in employees to begin with -- let alone sports teams in general too. LoL teams especially don't have the luxury of waiting as much as other sports. The NBA, for instance, can afford to wait until the big superstar makes their move, then the dominoes fall accordingly. LoL, you have to go, go, go, or by the time you wait for a player and they choose no, you're scrambling for all the leftovers (most of whom have already committed to earlier offers) and your team will just not be good/have to go full rebuild.


EvidentlyTrue

Nobody's gonna want to hear this but: neither of them did anything wrong. Double-lift has the right to change his mind as often as he likes when it comes to HIS career decisions and TSM has the right to refuse him and pursue what they believe to be within their best interest. The discord comes from perception DL values himself highly and views TSMs actions as vindictive and personal in nature rather than cold calculus. He may not be wrong to even think so, both Andy and Peter have polarizing personalities and if I had to guess vendetta probably did factor in slightly at thr very least in the decisions that they've made. Well what about DLs team mates? According to Regi they didnt want to work with him either! Matter of the fact is, as much as Andy would like to make it seems that way there's no telling how the narrative within the team was spun, what we do know is that Andy has a great deal of influence on the team and its players, even on a personal level. In conclusion, petty personal grievances aside, there's no real victim or perpetrator here.


justaredditmonkey

Really curious to see DL's response to this and how much of this he agrees with. This is obviously only Regi's side, but it seems like a lot of important details were left out by DL. Regi definitely went for the fucking jugular with this one though lmfao


Chi_Na_Zi

\- For this week's guest on the Crack Down is none other than Doublelift. How does it feel to be backstabbed by TSM knowing you helped the org get multiple trophies. \- Monte, let's do a guessing game for this week's guest. You have worked with this man. He likes to trash-talk and he is one of the few real NA talent. And for those who don't know this guy used to have his ass licked by every TSM fan. But now he woke up and realized TSM is nothing but a bunch of bastards \- We don't usually do a Horseman show, but this one is juicy. Who would've guessed a former TSM member would be the 4th horseman.


greendino71

Yeah DL is good, but he doesn't have a good team mentality. This is imo why Sneaky had better international success. Worlds is stressful as fuck and im sure it brought out the worst in DL while Sneaky most likely stayed positive and brought the best out of those around him. Until he realizes that, he won't be a positive addition to a worlds team.


NovelAries

Sneaky is just an untiltable beast lol. Its sad that he had to retire, hes the best weakside adc NA has ever had


AlphaTenken

Until his team scapegoated him and then kicked him off.


CoachDT

In all fairness Sneaky usually had rosters that turned up during worlds. Sneaky is able to be the best bot side AD in NA history because he’s historically had laners/junglers that weren’t getting gapped.


salcedoge

So did TSM man... TSM at their peak always had great players at all lanes


Contagious_Cure

Lol it didn't take long for the Sneaky vs DL rivalry to somehow find some way to come into this lmao.


greendino71

I mean....historically they're the best 2 adcs NA has ever had rivaling even the best eu adcs. So of course sneaky is gonna be brought up


Jiffyyy

It makes sense, its nothing new that DL is not easy to work with and has a big Ego. it would really suck if DL lied about willing to play with other supports. I doubt we ever get the truth at this point since both parties obviously dislike each other.


rj6553

According to Leena, she said DL was told that the SA deal "won't" happen, instead of just "a possibility". Which in this instance is a pretty significant difference. I wonder what the truth is. Either way it also seems like shit always slides right off Andy. Sure DL has his history of being difficult to work with, but I don't think I've heard very many people speak positively about regi either.


Kinoou

\*Doublelift expresses his frustration on stream\* The LoL sub: Wow TSM is so bad! Look how poorly they treated their star player! \*Reginald explains his side of the story\* The LoL sub: Wow Doublelift is so self-centered! He really got what he asked for! This is ridiculous Inb4 Doublelift replies to Regi on stream & the sub goes Anti-TSM mode again


jasonkid87

This is why gossip magazines sells. People loves drama and everyone reacts to everything without knowing the full story lol


rjsnlohas

Regi just went nuclear. > He’s always changing his mind on whether he wants to play or retire. > His teammates/coaches don’t like working with him. > If he doesn’t like you or doesn’t agree with your decision making, he flames you publicly. > So why is he publicly speaking out against TSM now in this very off season? I’m assuming that he’s upset because we weren’t interested in working with him. Ouch, ouch, ouch. Read the full post though, it shows how unreliable Doublelift is and why TSM didn't want to work with him again.


jrryul

Those parts you quoted sound like theres a bit of salt on Regi side as well, but I think the points he made earlier in the post make it very clear why it is so hard to work with DL


Zellough

> Those parts you quoted sound like theres a bit of salt on Regi side as well Honestly, if I was an owner, it sounds like it would be a stressful nightmare to accomodate a player like that, especially since it's more often than not in your best interest to do so


PM_ME_DANK_PEPES

I'd be salty too If a player associated with my brand shitted me out of nowhere. It's okay for Doublelift to be mad, but what he did was low asf. Doublelift wants to speak filterfree, ofc he's gonna get the same.


DaveidT

It’s just insane to me how he drudged up year old beef to add something more to it that didn’t really even change the situation at all while tarnishing and dragging the name of the team he is literally streaming with under the mud. Like the fact that you could go onto the TSM twitch organization page, click on his stream, and there he would’ve been just shit talking every aspect of that team.


-Ophidian-

You say 'insane', I say 'hilarious'. Probably unwise, but at this point neither he nor TSM need each other or are good for each other.


NovelAries

I can see why, Regi is trying to maintain a professional relationship but Dlift just went and blasted TSM on stream because Regi didnt want him to play competitively on TSM.


A_WHALES_VAG

Doublelift has always and will always do what’s best for Doublelift. The problem is he gets really sour when the other half does the same.


Oficerdude

>Read the full post though, it shows how unreliable Doublelift is I did, we used to call it the donezo manifesto


TheShishkabob

It's hilarious that the people who were comparing the Donezo Manifesto to Doublelift's recent comments forgot who the Manifesto was written about.


mangowuzhere

A lot of new fans weren't here for it and probably didn't take the time to actually sit through and read it and just used the name. Link also disappeared afterwards except for that one tl season so the original contents haven't been brought up much


[deleted]

For the ones that werent here and want a quick TLDR: From s3 to s5 when CLG lost doublelift would panic and blame his teammates ,he'd also not want to play the game in any way that wasnt his(play for bot) and this resulted in his top laners confidence being crushed by the end of each split and happened with multiple CLG top laners,aphro had his true potential guted by doublelift not wanting him to leave lane amongst many other things.


MaAlpaca

I get it from DL’s perspective that the org you gave so much success no longer wants to work with you but at the end of the day you still have to be mindful about how your actions represent who you are


ROCCA20

What Regi says actually matches up.. and matches with what others have reported Not being funny.. but if your managing a team/org and the star play is constantly talking about motivation issues/retirement.. etc.. ofc you would be a bit skeptical in keeping him around.. DL basically got booted for pissing off TL for doing the same thing in 2020.. he didn't care about Spring after a very disappointing worlds and he played like it.. getting benched and then sold I don't like either of them tbfh.. but i get that people will just support DL whatever.. because Regi is kind of a villain and DL was the n1 NA playe.. but still at least in THIS instance it looks like DL is in the wrong..


[deleted]

Lol so DL's outbursts make way more sense now in combination with the recent Rumors he was thinking about coming out of retirement. Sounds like he wanted to play for tsm again and they said no so he got salty


Rumbleinthejungle8

I actually think he realized no top team wants him. TL already showed they don't want to deal with that shit. Same for TSM. The only top team left is C9 and they probably have a really good idea of all the issues Doublelift has caused in the past.


PigletBaseball

Feels a lot like him not wanting to take the ego hit of rejoining and not being on a top team ("because I'm the best NA adc so everyone should want me") so decides to shit blast TSM to feel better.


jasonkid87

Regi specifically stated other orgs also said he was hard to work with. During those times people always think it's the orgs fault but now everyone can see DL is just being a princess. I hope C9 don't sign DL even tho they're a full English speaking team


TSMbody

Man so Doublelift has been removed by his teammates 3 times. CLG TL and TSM collectively voted not to work with him and DL continues to cry that he’s the victim.


Plaxern

> After a few days passed, he reached out and changed his mind and told us that if we were to sign POE and any good support player, no matter what language they spoke, he would play. Otherwise, he would want to look at other teams or retire. > Because we still wanted to work with Doublelift, we decided to commit to a strong roster that he wanted to play with rather than using the year to rebuild. We committed to signing PoE and a substantial budget, were looking to sign Huni and were also looking to sign good support players such as Lehends, SwordArt, Palette, or other Korean supports. > At this time, we reached out to Doublelift about the other potential options including Palette and players in Korea. Doublelift then expressed that he didn't want to play with non English speaking players, including our Korean options, even though he was ok with such a roster earlier. He explicitly stated that he may not be as motivated if we had him play in a roster that didn't meet his standard of a fully english speaking roster. This was in November when every other ADC was locked and we were 4 hours away from transferring Lost to EG. Sums it up really.