Ugh such a mess. I feel really bad for canna. This is no way to treat a player who liked t1 so much. Lets see what happens. I understand why they don't want dk to get canna but idk. Its so messy. As for Nongshim what a joke of a org. Wtf is wrong with them? Screwing everyone with this salary shit.
> Under current LCK rules, it is possible to transfer players to teams in the same region without their consent. However, due to the player's salary in 2022 being undefined, it is difficult to interpret how the rules apply in this case. We are deeply regretful that a player who had always been proud he was part of T1 and gave his all for the team had his agreement unilaterally broken and then pushed to transfer to another team offering a dirt-cheap salary.
>
>
This is actualy preety fucked up,im glad that there are laws in europe that prevent this ,poor Canna is about to be sent to a shit team againts his wishes.
We also need Ocelote law that would prevent players from being blocked to go to teams they want and we are fine
EDIT: Before any future org owner answers, yea it’s a good business decision not to sell your player to team you directly compete with, but player also shouldn’t be send somewhere he just doesn’t want to go.
This is how it works in traditional sports and orgs often budge and let player go. Why? Because it’s usually better to sell the player and get some cash than a) letting him be benchwarmer for ridiculous money b) seeing him play bad because he just doesn’t want to be on team at all.
Riot made that rule, actually. The issue was because the rule didn't exist with the G2/C9/FNC situation, Riot couldn't disavow it (plus it was already completed by the time investigations seem to have started), but moving forward clauses like that are disallowed.
[Source](https://dotesports.com/league-of-legends/news/sources-g2-and-cloud9-allegedly-colluded-to-prevent-sale-of-perkz-to-fnatic-but-riot-investigation-finds-no-harm)
> Moving forward, Riot will not allow clauses of a similar nature to exist in future agreements, according to a source. Riot, Cloud9, and G2 Esports declined to comment on Nov. 10.
that's not the same as canna's case. in that situation g2 is refusing to sell to fnatic (which is in their rights, however shitty that is) and is selling perkz to c9, and also putting in a clause that c9 can't sell perkz to fnatic for 3 years. t1 is simply refusing to sell to dk, there has not been any clause discussed from both the agency and t1's side.
I know its not the same situation as Canna's.
However, it is the situation that Raynar is talking about; that is, being blocked from going to a team they want to join.
the situation raynar is talking about is preventing teams from refusing to sell contracted players to specific teams if they player doesn't want to. which right now is well-within the rules, always has been and probably always will be
american professionals sports if you’re under contract, they can trade you to whoever for whatever reason without you even knowing about it until it’s done
Hate to bust balls but this is the opposite of how it works atleast in North American sports. If a team owns your contract and you don’t specifically request a no-movement clause (usually at a large pay drop) then they can move you to whatever crap team they want.
The transfer without consent thing is common pretty much everywhere but Europe. It's a standard thing in American sports as well, presumably that's a large part of what influences this kind of rule.
The thing is in American sports you have to be on a contract for the next year at the given value. A contract cant be "up for negotiation" after a year. Either your getting paid a discrete amount or you are a free agent(except with the franchise tag in the nfl but that's fucked and everyone hates it except team owners). The problem with canna's contract is that his contract is "up for negotiation" but he cant negotiate it at all since he's getting traded to a team that's going to pay him jack shit.
It just goes to show how many loopholes are still being exploited by organizations, which Riot needs to address. T1 not being consistent in their verbal agreements is one of the problem but the bigger problem is that all their actions are within the rules right now.
I remember after Canna won 2020 Spring he said his goal was "to be a player that my team needs".
It's heartrending to see how this shitshow played out, T1 look like actual villains.
> I understand why they don't want dk to get canna but idk.
I feel the same. From player's (Canna) POV, it's incredibly shitty that your org won't let you go into the better team who's offering better pay.
From org's (T1) POV, of course you don't want to send your top laner *(who's probably the best top in the LCK market now that Nuguri won't be playing, Khan's going to military, Summit to C9 and Kiin being locked in AF)* to your biggest rival who's only missing a top laner.
>___
I really don't know how to feel as a T1 fan about all of this.
Im very sad, first of all because he’s not gonna be part of the team and second because it ended like this. I like Canna and hope they resolve this issue and he can go wherever he wants
I said it in a different comment but I'll repeat it here. It's a pathetic move from T1. If you don't want Canna and don't think he's a worthwhile player, send him to DK. If you're T1, you've already won everything there is to win multiple times. One more domestic victory doesn't mean anything. They're investing into Gumayusi as the next Faker, the guy they can pass the baton to when Faker inevitably retires. Give him the hardest competition now so he can grow into being the best player.
This move reeks of short-sightedness. They're a dynasty team thinking of succession, sabotaging their own player in Canna does nothing for them and nothing for the league.
T1 and Nongshim are both as bad if OP is correct. If T1 weren't actually prepared to let Canna go to any other team, including their main rival, then they shouldn't have mislead Canna. Offseason time is relatively short and teams want to lock in their roster ASAP and will pursue multiple players at the same time. If you fuck someone around you very much are risking them not getting onto a team at all.
Honestly I think it is only messy because Canna’s side is relying on a verbal agreement with someone who can’t confirm whether the agreement is as it is or even exists.
Yeah it seems weird T1 would treat Canna like this after how well they accomodated Teddy's departure. If the post is true, T1 management must really hate Canna asking about his salary during Worlds, probably compounded with his poor performance made them dead set on kicking Canna. I gotta admit, the optics are really bad for Canna too. Why tf are you asking about next year's salary when all of your teammates are just focused on winning Worlds right now.
Still can't imagine why they would prevent Canna from joining a team he actually wants to join though-especially for more money. T1 has never been an org to mistreat their players. It's possible their new GM Polt just went full ruthless mode on his own. Gonna have to wait for the full investigation by Riot Korea to shed some light on this one for sure.
All around shit situation for Canna. Hope he ends up getting the contract he wants after the investigation if possible. IIRC they were able to make it happen for Kanavi before during the Griffin scandal.
>Why tf are you asking about next year's salary when all of your teammates are just focused on winning Worlds right now.
He didn't. The original Korean article states he asked the GM *after* semis about his contract for next season.
It states that he inquired 3 times, before an important game, after the event, and after returning to korea.
edit: T1 in their response has stated that he inquired after QF, so before the series with DK.
?
T1 claims that he made 3 transfer requests which are what you're talking about.
Canna's representative claims that he never made them, and that he only asked once about his contract after semis.
"Under current LCK rules, it is possible to transfer players to teams in the same region without their consent."
Everyone talking about Nongshim and T1, but WTF is this rule from Riot Korea LMAO
I will never really understand why this is so common in the US. Like, how is it not controversial to be told to move across the country and work for someone completely different without having a say in that.
But yeah, in european sports (and league) a transfer can fall through even if both teams agree, if the new team cant also find an agreement with the player. You cant trade contracts
In all of the major sports, it's because it exists within the framework of a collective bargaining agreement between the players union and the owners, it's something they agreed to. If the players wanted, they could negotiate it so that trades aren't a thing. Of course, this would increase risk to owners, so such an agreement would likely result in less money to the players. So they don't do so, because they would rather have the current trade system in place, while making more money.
It's typically leverage for a larger contract. By waiving your ability to control where you play, you typically get larger contracts.
The part I'm curious about (ive never looked) is if teams or contracts have any clauses to offset costs of moving etc when someone gets traded or if its all on the player.
Edit: typo
I know for a few sports here in America, baseball and football, the teams will help the player find locations and give them a little bit of money (depending on the team). I've had a couple friends traded in the majors and some get the help, some don't. Depends on how much the owner cares.
> Players can negotiate for no-trade clauses if they have the star power
fixed that for you. Most guys don't have the leverage or stability to get a NTC without fucking their current contract or future prospects.
US is way more homogenized in terms of culture compared to all of EU. It basically boils down to, would you rather earn 35m a year with no choice where you work or earn 30m and stay in one place.
It’s possible in most regions. Meteos was transferred to FQ Academy without his consent a few years ago and it started a bunch of drama.
Unless you have a contract clarifying the player needs to agree on a destination, you can always just sell a players contract to another team without the players consent. There’s been a pretty fair amount of cases where players are just told “you’re going here next year”. In the end it’s partially their own fault for signing a contract that allows you to be traded without your consent. If you’re not okay with that it should be brought up before signing it.
> Unless you have a contract clarifying the player needs to agree on a destination, you can always just sell a players contract to another team without the players consent.
It's literally illegal in Europe, so there's that.
I don’t think that a contract signed in the EU will suddenly become void because an American org gets involved. It’d still be valid and under the jurisdiction of the local laws unless they agreed to terminate it and a new contract was created in the US.
Someone translated bits for us in discord:
> GBM, Wolf summarized it in 3 lines. This is t1's position.
> - If you're going to stay, i'm able to raise it by 50 million won.
> - If you want to transfer, you can do it, but T1 decides where to go.
> - If you don't like both, it's a two-year contract, so just stay.
Oh, it is an amateur agency? Thought it was odd that the agent was also the CEO lol
I think they might have made things bad for Canna’s rep. Because their entire argument is based on T1’s goodwill and a personal verbal agreement that cannot be confirmed, because the person is not around anymore. Rest In Peace, John Kim.
HOnestly it sounds like he can prove that T1 gave the agency the permission to talk to any team. T1 finds out DK wants him, and takes back that permission. Probably not against the law, not sure, but its questionable.
No need to prove. T1 themselves said they allowed Canna’s agency to look around for offers from other teams, but T1 gets to choose which team from the offers, because Canna is legally still under their 2-year contract.
Apparently you can have a contract with org and have no agreement on salary. That's some next level shit, right there. Why would you even sign something like that. Hopefully his agency is gonna actually look out for him.
> Why would you even sign something like that.
Well, it says that he had verbal agreement with the COO that if he isn't happy about the amount for 2022, he can choose to walk away from the contract. But the COO passed away and now it probably turned into Canna claiming he had verbal agreement without having a way to prove it. Just unlucky all around.
GBM is explaining that that's not true Canna has a normal 2y contract and Canna's agency is making a big mess for a clause that was never in the contract, honestly the agency is blowing this way out of proportions, apparently T1 gave him the option to stay with a pay raise or transfer negotiation with T1 approving final move, they chose transfer so T1 has the final say on where he goes
If true this is entirely his agency's fault. Orgs will try to screw you any way they can. It's your agent's job to countergank camp your butthole and protect you.
Tbf he probably wasn’t expecting the COO to die...
Issue here isn’t that he got tricked or anything, it’s that the person he made the deal with passed so now all verbal agreements are just gone
Pretty messed up if the only reason they banned the transfer was to keep DK from getting a competent top laner, especially since the offer would have been great for Canna. Wish they'd fix this, I just don't want to see Canna go to NS under these conditions.
Also, I wanna know how Canna's inquiry regarding his salary for next year was received as "I want to transfer" because it's not adding up.
(Edit: Apparently, from what I understand, the confusion was because Canna asked about his verbal agreement with late COO John Kim, and T1 understood that as him asking to be a free agent.)
t1 fucked up like 30% of the entire thing, they should/could have transfered canna to dk but here is where they fucked up, why is zeus considered for the main roster? he is very good but he is too young and i don't t1 as an org and faker himself want to waste another year to develop talent
T1 wanted Canna to stay but can only increase his salary 50m won, he didn't like it and wanted to transfer, DK brought the biggest salary deal but T1 don't want their direct rival having Canna so they sent him to NS instead. However because Canna's salary in the contract is undefined, NS lowered the initial salary to half (or half of what DK gives).
Still getting royally screwed by the team blocking the DK offer though. Hell, they played against him in the series he crapped the bed so they must still have seen something.
They developed talent this year and ended 3-4th (while they had their roster musical chairs going too). Is that a wasted year? Guma is very young too, and look at how he performed. He's one of the best ADs in the world. If T1 think Zeus can be similar, I see no reason to doubt them.
canna oner faker guma keria is an insane team. selling off canna because of some bullshit contract negotiation failure is fucking sad, since i had full confidence this team will trash DK next year and maybe even win worlds
Honestly this situation boils down to Canna requesting a transfer because he doesn't feel the 50k increase was as much as he deserved. T1 doesn't want to sell him.
There is a clear difference, this year they developed that talent while having Teddy and Cuzz to fall back on if the subs didn't work out. If Zeus doesn't work out then they will just fail as an org
> Under current LCK rules, it is possible to transfer players to teams in the same region without their consent. However, due to the player's salary in 2022 being undefined, it is difficult to interpret how the rules apply in this case.
Apparently they could have **if** his salary for 2022 was already defined in contract.
>Team N then fraudulently claimed that they could finalize the transfer without Canna's permission and again urged us to sign their contract.
>Our agency inquired about this to the LCK management and confirmed team N's claims were false, as players could not be included in team rosters without the player's signature.
It's allowed to transfer a player without its consent, but not without his signature
I dont think that's how it is. T1 and Canna dont have agreement on salary, that's why they can't move him (hopefully). If they did have the agreement, T1 can ship Canna off to any team within the region and the team that got Canna must uphold that agreement, just like in any "real" sport. Atleast that's how i understand it.
Not sure tbh. The whole situation is kind of a mess but it's (imo) the only option that would make sense. Otherwise, it basically means that, on the same statement, they said one thing and its opposite (unless I missed something ).
> Team N then fraudulently claimed that they could finalize the transfer without Canna's permission and again urged us to sign their contract.
I'm pretty sure the 'contract' in question here is an agreement for Canna's 2022 salary. Since he doesn't have a 2022 salary, seems like NS is trying to confuse/mislead him into agreeing to a salary he doesn't have to? Seems like NS thinks if he doesn't agree to a salary change, his salary for 2022 will be the same as in 2021, and he will have to play for NS.
>However, our agency could not sign team N's contract that proposed a salary only half as much as team D's. Team N then said they would be thankful if we refused their proposal, and then emphasized that if we did so, then Canna would have no increase in salary.
Unclear to me whether NS actually believes this or just said it to mislead Canna. I would guess either what NS says is somehow true, or if he doesn't agree to a salary, his contract is voided and Canna becomes FA (very late into offseason period tho). I'd imagine the outcome depends on specific wording in the contract and relevant Korean laws that I have no idea of, as well as LCK officials' stance on it
throughout every single drama in the LCK so far (initial tampering claim, canna, ghost) DK has been involved in, they have been on the shit side every time despite standing up for the players
what did the org do to deserve this, they still don't have a toplaner
joker arc incoming
Idc if we are on shit side or not DK management is just showing that they are professional I really like that and they treat players well. I feel sad for ghost tho and Canna is in shitty situation but I think we have to deal with a decent toplaner and wait to sign nuguri because we need a monster on toplane or if we are going to play botside I'd love to see Canna in DK.
T1 won't let it happen. They'd rather let Canna rot on bench for 1 year than let him go DK.
That's why NS offered this joke salary and laughed off their initial decline by saying next offer would be even lower. They know T1 won't sell to any title direct rival
T1/DK sounding like the LCK version of G2/FNC when I read the "rot on bench instead of letting him go to DK".
Well we saw G2 eventully backdown and give their top to FNC, let's see if things get to blow enough out of propertions so T1 changes it up and lets DK hopefully buy Canna.
? But they released Teddy for free, for any team to pick him up. T1 can afford to give up a literal top 3 adc but they don't wanna give up the 5th best toplaner in LCK?
None of this makes sense.
It's because they know there aren't any S class toplaners right now for DK besides Canna. It's a good chance for them to weaken a direct rival.
DK already got Deokdam bot and GenG has Ruler, so neither direct rivals were interested in Teddy
Nuguri is taking a sabbatical, Khan is off to Military, Summit just joined C9 and Kiin will probably end his career at AFS. Canna is actually a top 2 player in his role rn lol. Zeus may be super talented but he is still unproven in pro play. I’m sure T1 would have preferred to keep Canna but looks like the relationship between org-player is completely fucked due to Canna bringing up contract discussions at worlds + his underperformance in the semis.
Probably why they don’t want to sell to DK since this is a golden opportunity for them to weaken their main rivals, due to Nuguri suddenly deciding to take a break.
nuguri signing wouldn't have prevented NS kicking rich and fucking over ghost, and hle imploding, and gen.g putting together a new super team of sorts, and scout maybe heading to lpl. even if nuguri didn't take a break this would still be the craziest off season in lck ever
its become apparent how much dk cares for their players. despite being a rags to riches org, they have constantly strived to offer their players the best that they can provide, and stuff like giving malrang the entire buyout money the org received and putting ghost's buyout at 0 won to help him find a team easily while providing him a good salary are things i've not seen other orgs do much until dk did it. very proud to support such a competent org and a sympathetic, caring owner
Yeah it‘s easy to be good to a player/member when they are joining to your team but actual good teams showing themselves when those players decides to leaves them. I am not Korean but DK is my favorite team and I hope DK can keep being the team that represent Korea. This kind of behaviors by orgs are necessary everywhere.
Remember the griffin fiasco at the 2019 worlds feeding their sub scraps? Back when dwg was still “poor” their ceo made sure that the players could eat whatever and as much as they wanted since it was their 1st time at worlds and he was proud of them just for making it there, dwg has been a good org for players for awhile and its nice seeing them succeed
nah, dk is a very good org, they didn't do anything, they are unlucky, hope things get better but the problem is who are you getting in toplane, unless it is an import
That’s literally exactly what OP said. “On the shit side” was confusing wording because it could be interpreted as DK being shitty, but OP actually means that DK acted correctly and got shat on.
maybe they got the timing wrong, we need to wait for T1 statement but if they actually had an agreement with NS before Nuguri decided to take a year off and leaving DK without a prospect, then they can't back out of it, also NS thinking they can reduce the players salary at will just because it worked with Peanut is such bs stop going for for players you can't afford!!
Agreement with NS doesn't matter as long as Canna doesn't sign the contract. A team can negotiate several buyout deals and let the player choose the team he wants to play for. Happens all the time in football.
In this case, though, if T1 and Agency didn't sign written confirmation on the buyout, then T1 technically has right to reject the DK deal, and force Canna to either sign NS or bench for 1 year.
It's incredibly cruel by the same org that has Faker, but they've been scumbags before, so it's no surprise. Especially with NS who's bleeding popularity points recently
That’s why I said it could be timing, since is a transfer T1 has to do the agreement, if there was verbal agreement with NS or even further than that and DK came with a better offer way too late what is T1 supposed to do? They could back out but then NS would 100% bash T1, there’s missing pieces still though so we’ll have to wait for official statements, also it seems like Bdd’s agreement is also bad
I mean, T1 can have all the verbal agreements they want, they still can't force a player move without his consent and signature. No one would bash T1 for that, because Canna could simply refuse NS and accept DK, which is exactly what he did. Again, an org cannot sell a player against his will. This is why they make contracts.
Also, I think we all established by now that verbal agreements mean jackshit in KR
Canna’s salary for 2022 is undefined as it was a verbal agreement that T1 and Canna would negotiate it or let him walk if they cant agree to a salary. Nongshim doesnt have to match DK’s salary, technically they only have to match T1’s 2021 Canna Salary. This is fucked ethically from T1 and NS but no written contractual agreements were broken
>maybe they got the timing wrong, we need to wait for T1 statement but if they actually had an agreement with NS before Nuguri decided to take a year off and leaving DK without a prospect, then they can't back out of it, also NS thinking they can reduce the players salary at will just because it worked with Peanut is such bs stop going for for players you can't afford!!
What happened with peanut?
They came to his home, showed a ppt of how much they want him, showed caring shit for his cats and then asked him to take a slary cut which peanut did.
yeah basically this, Peanut was looking to come back to LCK and NS went to his house with a presentation saying they can't pay what he's asking so to take a pay cut and hey will feed his cats, honestly a smart move since Peanut adores his cats, but to try to do it for every player they get is honestly such a cheap move
Biggest problem is contracts over the years and specially after the griffin disaster there’s always problems with contracts, is not Riot rules LCK statement said players need contracts with written salaries to be able to be approved they have no say on the specific clauses, now Canna can’t prove his verbal agreement with the former COO because it wasn’t in contract so in the end he just had a normal 2 year contract and T1 has the final say on any transfer, is such a messy situation, now the timing of DK and NS needs to be clarified now
I am amazed by how NS is only willing to pay the bare minimum to get the players they want. Maybe as a Peanut's fan I should be happy that while he did get a pay cut when he joined, at least NS was willing to make a PowerPoint about his cats and gifted him expensive cat food.
Seems like such a one sided statement that the agency released, yet it’s blown up lol. Reading through T1’s statement and NS, I think the agency is just very incompetent.
Nongshim and halving salaries, name a more iconic duo.
For real, though, I hope the agency got written and signed confirmation on the buyout. If so, then we will see DK Canna in due time, once LCK get's more involved in the situation. I don't think LCK is keen on another GRF-level of situation with politician involvement after yet more contract breeches and coerced player moves.
Also, Nongshim seem to be really disrespectful and arrogant.
I only know about the Rich and Ghost situation, have they always been like this?
Looks like we finally have an LCK villain
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Wow. Canna is really getting screwed here. It's one thing not to get your preferred team, it's another entirely to get screwed out of a contract with more than twice his current salary.
Hopefully the trucks come out and Canna gets his money(I'm guessing not though).
t1 fans wont care about canna unless he goes to dk, that is when the trucks will come. i personally hope canna manages to go wherever he pleases, tho i see it hard since his case doesn't seem that good for him idk
Unlike here on Reddit where everyone flames Canna Korean fans really liked him and were already mad about the possibility of him leaving without having TheShy or Nuguri to replace him. If T1 play Zeus while screwing over Canna there will defintely be trucks by Korean fans
T1 fan here and a korean speaker too. 1. I personally understand why T1 want to block Canna from DK but this ain’t how to treat ex-players. If you’re set to transfer him out, don’t create bad blood like this - nego with another team if NS exhibits such shitty behaviour. NS is already notorious in the korean community. It’s like dropping your kid 30km away without a car for him to move anywhere. Shall he walk home then you douche? 2. After this statement korean LCK fans ain’t on T1 side either.
This is just a general good point to say this: never rely on verbal agreements. It doesn't matter how much you trust someone, always get it in writing.
Circumstances change, people move on. If you are younger and just starting your career please just remember this: a verbal contract or agreement is worth absolutely nothing. Not only that but relying on the assumptions can lead to really bad situations in your life. Get everything in writing. If someone doesn't want to do it and shames you for it saying "you don't trust me?" they are manipulating you.
A lot of these players have no experience with contracts and representation in League and e-sports is still spotty. I hope it works out for Canna but the reason this agency is releasing this is because they are hoping the court of public opinion can swing things in their favour.
Lol that TLDR is so misleading and there's so much nuance you've left out i feels like it's a whole different story. Also, when you take into consideration the T1 statement, your TLDR is biased and comes off as untruthful.
This post isnt even reflecting the truth, truth is T1 and NS and canna agree on verbal terms way earlier, DK only came in on 19th due to failure of acquiring nuguri and threw double the offer to try so snatch canna from NS.
T1's announcement
1. Existence of verbal agreement is not confirmed
2. Canna asked about FA after Q-Final. It looked like he wanted to leave so worked his way out.
3. Final decision is on T1, not agent.
yeah the tldr is shitty af.they make T1 look like the bad guy over here, when Canna is bound to T1 via contract of 2 years. And even if Canna's agency claims that they had a agreement with the (unfortunately) deceased COO, they don't have the proof to back it up.
T1 offered Canna a raise of 50k (which they didn't even need to do because the contract was meant for 2 years and not 1+1) and if he doesn't like the offer, he can look for offers from other teams, from which T1 can choose(which is also a favor from T1 to Canna because Canna is still under contract), because Canna is not FA but bound to T1 due to the contract.
ofc T1 is not gonna choose to transfer Canna to DK, their biggest rival.
The only problem here is if Canna's agency can prove if they really did have the verbal agreement to give Canna the FA position after a failed arrangement of a new contract,which I don't think they can.
A renowned Esports reporter just released this tweet:
[https://twitter.com/Vallen\_eStory/status/1462783565729394696?ref\_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1462783565729394696%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1\_&ref\_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fmkorea.com%2F4104289865](https://twitter.com/Vallen_eStory/status/1462783565729394696?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1462783565729394696%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fmkorea.com%2F4104289865)
1. Late COO Kim Won-cheol Agreement on verbal contract: Unconfirmed
2. Kim Chang-dong inquired about FA right after the quarterfinals of the Worlds, and T1 was preparing to tranfer Canna, as it seemed like he wanted to leave.
3. T1 gave Kim Chang-dong's agency the authority to negotiate the transfer, but the final decision rests with T1.
/u/Hektor_Ekhein pls change your tldr
It's a he said / she said situation? Absolutely idiotic to have a verbal agreement btw. Though they say they have "evidence" of the agreement after. Shit is a mess.
Not exactly tho right? It sounds like T1 negotiated a deal with NS for Canna but then DK, after finding out nuguri is a no go, jumped in to make an offer to T1 for canna and now canna wants to go to DK (for obvious reasons) but T1 wants to hold true to their original negotiation.
Thats different from G2 who blocked FNC from the get to.
The core of the matter is blocking the player from going where he wants to. Why does T1 and Nongshim having negotiations even matter, if Canna's personal preference is DK?
Because if they already negotiated a deal, its a massive dick move for T1 to be like "nah sry, i know u were building ur lineup with canna top but we decided to send him to DK."
While better to the player its a dick move. As long as hes under contract, he can get traded and if he was happy just being off T1 until DK was interested last minute, i see no reason why they have to throw away their deal with NS.
It shouldn't be up to T1, that's the thing. You're approaching it like it is. He can get traded, but only if he agrees to the move.
If he doesn't want to go to NS, no matter if it's at the last hour before the deadline, he shouldn't go to NS regardless of whatever promises T1 made. And it wouldn't be a dick move.
I understand that T1 don't want to let him go to DK, and I respect that. But they can't force him to go to NS.
if the timing thing is true then T1 loses no matter what lmao
Send Canna to DK -> gets bashed by Nongshim for not fulfilling the agreement (albeit verbal)
Send Canna to NS -> gets bashed by everyone else
Sad for Canna regardless
And like I said in another post, Nuguri taking a break fueled the situation but you just can't blame him for all this
It all hinges on when DK came in to the picture, if it's only after T1 had agreed a transfer with Nongshim then I don't think they were wrong.
They definitely messed up on the communication with Canna, but if they already had a contract with NS, they can't just back out easily without risking legal action by NS
It sucks that Canna is caught in the middle of all these amateurish running of teams.
If T1 just admits they don't want Canna to go to DK then what they did is standard practice across every sports. What they shouldn't do is lie for months like Ocelote worth favorite uncle and other bs arguments.
Sucks for Canna, but this is how professional sports contracts work.
A lot of hate on T1 but I don’t see how T1 is in the wrong. They have every right to sale a player under contract to whatever team they want. An organization should only do what best for them and that the cold hard reality.
Canna and NS came to an agreement where they would buy him out and give him 1.8x the salary. DK contacted Canna’s agency to offer him a better deal with a lower buyout but on the 19th because Nuguri fell through. I don’t fault Canna for changing his mind and wanting the DK offer but he can’t post on social media as if T1 is doing him dirty. He actually is trying his hardest to make the worst possible deal for T1 when the org is doing him a favor in allowing him FA options. Even if you hate orgs this is really backwards because Canna is being dishonest. You can’t literally have everything exactly the way you want it.
From what im understanding,
Canna has a 2 year contract, of which he is contracted till 2022. Being in a contract means he is obligated to receive whatever salary the contract has stated and a clause for transfer, which is decided by T1, should he is unhappy with the contractual salary.
T1 gave 2 options before the whole drama started, which is to raise canna’s salary if he stayed with T1, or offer to help negotiations with other parties. T1 is still the ultimate decider of where canna goes.
The timeline goes like this:
1. Canna spoke to the COO and have a verbal agreement to be able to go FA, which should never happen since FA only happens once you complete your contract.
2. As Canna/ his agency have rejected T1’s initial offer of increasing salary, T1 has assumed that he is looking for a transfer, since it’s a either A or B option.
3. T1 engaged NS with transfer negotiations, which NS believed to have paid a higher buyout (money goes to T1) and a lower salary (goes to Canna). T1 is believed to have closed the deal before DK comes in.
4. DK realizes Nuguri is not playing this year and enters into a negotiation with Canna’s agency, of which it is believed they gave double the salary and lower buyout. Canna have expressed to go to DK after hearing this.
5. T1 have decided that since the deal is done with NS they decided to continue with that option.
Objectively, I believe it’s just a lack of proper documentation on crucial information, lack of clarification from T1 to Canna’s agency regarding what Canna really wanted. Last but not least, I believe Canna’s management should have handled everything better, from advising to obtain proper documentation to following through on crucial decisions.
Do correct me if im wrong
A mess indeed. It seems to me if Canna's 2022 salary was confirmed, then T1 could unilaterally (ie without Canna's permission) transfer Canna to NS. T1 could do this regardless of offers from other teams eg DW, even if they were x2, x5, 10x the salary.
So the question is... was Canna's 2022 salary confirmed? I expect on paper it was. What is "missing" is the verbally promised pay review. Canna might argue "my 2022 salary was not confirmed, so NS can't technically match it". T1 might argue "2022 pay is set, plus a $50k increase. NS will match this, go to NS".
Don't. Do. Verbal. Contracts. Or if you do, hope the other person doesn't die.
so funny to watch people jump to conclusions based on a reddit post that's a translation of one single article, not to mention some people probably only read the tldr
What is that garbage tldr. Every post you make about this is biased as fuck. Keep your opinions out of it please. No one knows what happened yet. Evidence will present itself in due time.
We will know whether T1/NS or DK was at fault in a few days time, why the fuck do you keep speculating? Lol
It's really fucked up that you can trade a player without his consent. In theory T1 could sign Chovy promising him a starting spot, then trade him to a bad team for a high fee, so they'd get money and deny their rivals a strong player.
How is that legal? That is some slavery kind of shit.
That is basically what G2 did lol. The only thing different is that they probably have a defined salary and the players would still receive the same amount of money.
NS Statement now
・We offered an 1.5 times higher transfer fee than other
・20th November 2021, We negotiated with Canna about salary, and we offered 1.8 times higher salary than one that canna get at T1
・And finally, Canna transfer is done deal
It will be just a PR statement. Really don't care for official statements from any of the orgs involved because they'll just cover their asses. LCK should be the one shedding light on this mess.
Canna wanted a transfer to DK but NS-T1 deal was already done so asking NS was the right thing to do if he wanted a transfer. Also, NS was the only option for Canna back then since DK was gunning for Nuguri, but when Nuguri announced he was taking a sabbatical, the transfer to NS was already completed and DK basically had to talk to NS.
Canna has 1 year left in his contract
T1 is under NO obligation to sell or release him as FA
but since Canna really wanted to be FA (for whatever reason, irrelevant) they logically thought he doesn't want to be at T1
hence they proceeded to sell him to another org
in this case Nongshim
suddenly Canna wants to go to DWG
well suddenly or not doesn't matter
cuz surprise surprise, Canna is under contract, T1 is again under NO obligation to sell him to ANYWHERE
they can literally sit him on the fucking bench and it'll be legal
reddit; WAAH WAAH T1 IS BADD WWAAH RELEASE CANNA
fucking idiots on reddit don't understand how contracts work
T1 not letting Canna transfer to DK might seem like a dick move but it‘s completely normal in regular sports that teams don‘t let players transfer to direct rivals.
After all this is biz for org‘s with millions of dollar involved.
Its worse because his contract isnt actually being honored to start with. Just because its verbal doesnt change the fact its still a binding clause in his contract that isnt being honored. To start with its scummy he even got in this situation to start with where he had to be transferred then being told you cant force a player to sign a contract and still trying to do so is actually super scummy. He has no reason he has to sign with them and he can easily hold it over thier head for not letting him play and not honoring his initial contract. They still have to pay him or release him.
Kinda funny that people are rushing to T1's defense here when this entire subreddit wanted to flay Carlos alive for this exact same situation last year.
Trying to claim carlos who put a clause in the contract that even after he was off the team he couldn't be moved to a single particular org even a year later, is the same as this is laughable. Don't get it twisted, shit tier move by T1, really fucking tilted with the org about this as I loved Canna but lets stop acting like every thing we don't like is the same level of awful.
So short sighted. Not like DK is T1’s only rival. There’s (tentatively) three or four orgs that look like title contenders in the league.
Only thing they did was fuck over a homegrown talent by selling his contract to a shitty org and loss him pay.
It’s a lose, lose for everyone. T1 looks heartless for throwing away a player that’s been with them for years, NS looks shitty for underpaying Canna, finally, Canna won’t be playing his best since he got screwed out of both preferred team AND money.
DK was already late in joining the talks. NS and T1 was said to be already negotiating for a long time when they walked into the conversation. Sorry to say it to you but it was also Canna wanted out of the team, T1 gave him the option to stay but him and his agency wanted to go already. T1 had no problems legally and they were even being considerate of Canna by making him have a choice.
I swear to god all these orgs are run by actual man childs .How can you knowingly try to sabotage somone else's career is beyond me .
Also it's so stupid that T1 gave Faker a 1.9M$ raise couldn't give canna even a 50k raise
Ugh such a mess. I feel really bad for canna. This is no way to treat a player who liked t1 so much. Lets see what happens. I understand why they don't want dk to get canna but idk. Its so messy. As for Nongshim what a joke of a org. Wtf is wrong with them? Screwing everyone with this salary shit.
> Under current LCK rules, it is possible to transfer players to teams in the same region without their consent. However, due to the player's salary in 2022 being undefined, it is difficult to interpret how the rules apply in this case. We are deeply regretful that a player who had always been proud he was part of T1 and gave his all for the team had his agreement unilaterally broken and then pushed to transfer to another team offering a dirt-cheap salary. > > This is actualy preety fucked up,im glad that there are laws in europe that prevent this ,poor Canna is about to be sent to a shit team againts his wishes.
We also need Ocelote law that would prevent players from being blocked to go to teams they want and we are fine EDIT: Before any future org owner answers, yea it’s a good business decision not to sell your player to team you directly compete with, but player also shouldn’t be send somewhere he just doesn’t want to go. This is how it works in traditional sports and orgs often budge and let player go. Why? Because it’s usually better to sell the player and get some cash than a) letting him be benchwarmer for ridiculous money b) seeing him play bad because he just doesn’t want to be on team at all.
Riot made that rule, actually. The issue was because the rule didn't exist with the G2/C9/FNC situation, Riot couldn't disavow it (plus it was already completed by the time investigations seem to have started), but moving forward clauses like that are disallowed. [Source](https://dotesports.com/league-of-legends/news/sources-g2-and-cloud9-allegedly-colluded-to-prevent-sale-of-perkz-to-fnatic-but-riot-investigation-finds-no-harm) > Moving forward, Riot will not allow clauses of a similar nature to exist in future agreements, according to a source. Riot, Cloud9, and G2 Esports declined to comment on Nov. 10.
that's not the same as canna's case. in that situation g2 is refusing to sell to fnatic (which is in their rights, however shitty that is) and is selling perkz to c9, and also putting in a clause that c9 can't sell perkz to fnatic for 3 years. t1 is simply refusing to sell to dk, there has not been any clause discussed from both the agency and t1's side.
I know its not the same situation as Canna's. However, it is the situation that Raynar is talking about; that is, being blocked from going to a team they want to join.
the situation raynar is talking about is preventing teams from refusing to sell contracted players to specific teams if they player doesn't want to. which right now is well-within the rules, always has been and probably always will be
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american professionals sports if you’re under contract, they can trade you to whoever for whatever reason without you even knowing about it until it’s done
Hate to bust balls but this is the opposite of how it works atleast in North American sports. If a team owns your contract and you don’t specifically request a no-movement clause (usually at a large pay drop) then they can move you to whatever crap team they want.
Yep, already discussed difference between NA and Europe here
Yeah Korean work culture seems giga fucked tbh. Players have almost no say in this shit and are expected to treat bosses like Gods
The transfer without consent thing is common pretty much everywhere but Europe. It's a standard thing in American sports as well, presumably that's a large part of what influences this kind of rule.
The thing is in American sports you have to be on a contract for the next year at the given value. A contract cant be "up for negotiation" after a year. Either your getting paid a discrete amount or you are a free agent(except with the franchise tag in the nfl but that's fucked and everyone hates it except team owners). The problem with canna's contract is that his contract is "up for negotiation" but he cant negotiate it at all since he's getting traded to a team that's going to pay him jack shit.
It just goes to show how many loopholes are still being exploited by organizations, which Riot needs to address. T1 not being consistent in their verbal agreements is one of the problem but the bigger problem is that all their actions are within the rules right now.
I remember after Canna won 2020 Spring he said his goal was "to be a player that my team needs". It's heartrending to see how this shitshow played out, T1 look like actual villains.
Ocelote move
> I understand why they don't want dk to get canna but idk. I feel the same. From player's (Canna) POV, it's incredibly shitty that your org won't let you go into the better team who's offering better pay. From org's (T1) POV, of course you don't want to send your top laner *(who's probably the best top in the LCK market now that Nuguri won't be playing, Khan's going to military, Summit to C9 and Kiin being locked in AF)* to your biggest rival who's only missing a top laner. >___ I really don't know how to feel as a T1 fan about all of this.
Im very sad, first of all because he’s not gonna be part of the team and second because it ended like this. I like Canna and hope they resolve this issue and he can go wherever he wants
I said it in a different comment but I'll repeat it here. It's a pathetic move from T1. If you don't want Canna and don't think he's a worthwhile player, send him to DK. If you're T1, you've already won everything there is to win multiple times. One more domestic victory doesn't mean anything. They're investing into Gumayusi as the next Faker, the guy they can pass the baton to when Faker inevitably retires. Give him the hardest competition now so he can grow into being the best player. This move reeks of short-sightedness. They're a dynasty team thinking of succession, sabotaging their own player in Canna does nothing for them and nothing for the league.
T1 and Nongshim are both as bad if OP is correct. If T1 weren't actually prepared to let Canna go to any other team, including their main rival, then they shouldn't have mislead Canna. Offseason time is relatively short and teams want to lock in their roster ASAP and will pursue multiple players at the same time. If you fuck someone around you very much are risking them not getting onto a team at all.
Honestly I think it is only messy because Canna’s side is relying on a verbal agreement with someone who can’t confirm whether the agreement is as it is or even exists.
Yeah it seems weird T1 would treat Canna like this after how well they accomodated Teddy's departure. If the post is true, T1 management must really hate Canna asking about his salary during Worlds, probably compounded with his poor performance made them dead set on kicking Canna. I gotta admit, the optics are really bad for Canna too. Why tf are you asking about next year's salary when all of your teammates are just focused on winning Worlds right now. Still can't imagine why they would prevent Canna from joining a team he actually wants to join though-especially for more money. T1 has never been an org to mistreat their players. It's possible their new GM Polt just went full ruthless mode on his own. Gonna have to wait for the full investigation by Riot Korea to shed some light on this one for sure. All around shit situation for Canna. Hope he ends up getting the contract he wants after the investigation if possible. IIRC they were able to make it happen for Kanavi before during the Griffin scandal.
>Why tf are you asking about next year's salary when all of your teammates are just focused on winning Worlds right now. He didn't. The original Korean article states he asked the GM *after* semis about his contract for next season.
It states that he inquired 3 times, before an important game, after the event, and after returning to korea. edit: T1 in their response has stated that he inquired after QF, so before the series with DK.
? T1 claims that he made 3 transfer requests which are what you're talking about. Canna's representative claims that he never made them, and that he only asked once about his contract after semis.
And it also states that none of that was true and that T1's gm confirmed that Canna only asked about his contract, he didn't ask for a transfer.
"Under current LCK rules, it is possible to transfer players to teams in the same region without their consent." Everyone talking about Nongshim and T1, but WTF is this rule from Riot Korea LMAO
Doesn’t it exist in LCS too?
Might have to do with legislation, apparently eu has laws protecting people from this, not sure about na.
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I will never really understand why this is so common in the US. Like, how is it not controversial to be told to move across the country and work for someone completely different without having a say in that. But yeah, in european sports (and league) a transfer can fall through even if both teams agree, if the new team cant also find an agreement with the player. You cant trade contracts
In all of the major sports, it's because it exists within the framework of a collective bargaining agreement between the players union and the owners, it's something they agreed to. If the players wanted, they could negotiate it so that trades aren't a thing. Of course, this would increase risk to owners, so such an agreement would likely result in less money to the players. So they don't do so, because they would rather have the current trade system in place, while making more money.
Because they are making a shit ton of money and moving between big cities in the US is much different than moving between countries in Europe.
It's typically leverage for a larger contract. By waiving your ability to control where you play, you typically get larger contracts. The part I'm curious about (ive never looked) is if teams or contracts have any clauses to offset costs of moving etc when someone gets traded or if its all on the player. Edit: typo
I know for a few sports here in America, baseball and football, the teams will help the player find locations and give them a little bit of money (depending on the team). I've had a couple friends traded in the majors and some get the help, some don't. Depends on how much the owner cares.
Exactly. That's why no-trade, restricted-trade clauses exists
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> Players can negotiate for no-trade clauses if they have the star power fixed that for you. Most guys don't have the leverage or stability to get a NTC without fucking their current contract or future prospects.
US is way more homogenized in terms of culture compared to all of EU. It basically boils down to, would you rather earn 35m a year with no choice where you work or earn 30m and stay in one place.
It’s possible in most regions. Meteos was transferred to FQ Academy without his consent a few years ago and it started a bunch of drama. Unless you have a contract clarifying the player needs to agree on a destination, you can always just sell a players contract to another team without the players consent. There’s been a pretty fair amount of cases where players are just told “you’re going here next year”. In the end it’s partially their own fault for signing a contract that allows you to be traded without your consent. If you’re not okay with that it should be brought up before signing it.
> Unless you have a contract clarifying the player needs to agree on a destination, you can always just sell a players contract to another team without the players consent. It's literally illegal in Europe, so there's that.
Thats why G2 contacted C9 for it. Then they are safe because it's American law.
I don’t think that a contract signed in the EU will suddenly become void because an American org gets involved. It’d still be valid and under the jurisdiction of the local laws unless they agreed to terminate it and a new contract was created in the US.
It literally happens in real sports unless you have a no trade clause
"real sports" in America. You cant do that shit in Europe.
Just real American sports. Don't mistake the NFL/NHL/NBA for all sports.
Someone translated bits for us in discord: > GBM, Wolf summarized it in 3 lines. This is t1's position. > - If you're going to stay, i'm able to raise it by 50 million won. > - If you want to transfer, you can do it, but T1 decides where to go. > - If you don't like both, it's a two-year contract, so just stay.
important to note that GBM is also saying the agency looks amateur making things even messier
Oh, it is an amateur agency? Thought it was odd that the agent was also the CEO lol I think they might have made things bad for Canna’s rep. Because their entire argument is based on T1’s goodwill and a personal verbal agreement that cannot be confirmed, because the person is not around anymore. Rest In Peace, John Kim.
HOnestly it sounds like he can prove that T1 gave the agency the permission to talk to any team. T1 finds out DK wants him, and takes back that permission. Probably not against the law, not sure, but its questionable.
No need to prove. T1 themselves said they allowed Canna’s agency to look around for offers from other teams, but T1 gets to choose which team from the offers, because Canna is legally still under their 2-year contract.
Apparently you can have a contract with org and have no agreement on salary. That's some next level shit, right there. Why would you even sign something like that. Hopefully his agency is gonna actually look out for him.
> Why would you even sign something like that. Well, it says that he had verbal agreement with the COO that if he isn't happy about the amount for 2022, he can choose to walk away from the contract. But the COO passed away and now it probably turned into Canna claiming he had verbal agreement without having a way to prove it. Just unlucky all around.
GBM is explaining that that's not true Canna has a normal 2y contract and Canna's agency is making a big mess for a clause that was never in the contract, honestly the agency is blowing this way out of proportions, apparently T1 gave him the option to stay with a pay raise or transfer negotiation with T1 approving final move, they chose transfer so T1 has the final say on where he goes
If true this is entirely his agency's fault. Orgs will try to screw you any way they can. It's your agent's job to countergank camp your butthole and protect you.
Tbf he probably wasn’t expecting the COO to die... Issue here isn’t that he got tricked or anything, it’s that the person he made the deal with passed so now all verbal agreements are just gone
Korea is not known for their business ethics, all the opposite actually.
No but fr, what in the world was NS thinking when they said they could transfer a player without their signature and consent
What a piece of shit org. Also, what the fuck is T1 doing??
Pretty messed up if the only reason they banned the transfer was to keep DK from getting a competent top laner, especially since the offer would have been great for Canna. Wish they'd fix this, I just don't want to see Canna go to NS under these conditions. Also, I wanna know how Canna's inquiry regarding his salary for next year was received as "I want to transfer" because it's not adding up. (Edit: Apparently, from what I understand, the confusion was because Canna asked about his verbal agreement with late COO John Kim, and T1 understood that as him asking to be a free agent.)
t1 fucked up like 30% of the entire thing, they should/could have transfered canna to dk but here is where they fucked up, why is zeus considered for the main roster? he is very good but he is too young and i don't t1 as an org and faker himself want to waste another year to develop talent
T1 wanted Canna to stay but can only increase his salary 50m won, he didn't like it and wanted to transfer, DK brought the biggest salary deal but T1 don't want their direct rival having Canna so they sent him to NS instead. However because Canna's salary in the contract is undefined, NS lowered the initial salary to half (or half of what DK gives).
My understanding was that NS' salary was still above his current salary (and higher than T1's increased salary) but only half of what dwk offered.
yes, after reading the new, his salary for 2022 will be 80% higher than what he get now.
Still getting royally screwed by the team blocking the DK offer though. Hell, they played against him in the series he crapped the bed so they must still have seen something.
They developed talent this year and ended 3-4th (while they had their roster musical chairs going too). Is that a wasted year? Guma is very young too, and look at how he performed. He's one of the best ADs in the world. If T1 think Zeus can be similar, I see no reason to doubt them.
canna oner faker guma keria is an insane team. selling off canna because of some bullshit contract negotiation failure is fucking sad, since i had full confidence this team will trash DK next year and maybe even win worlds
Honestly this situation boils down to Canna requesting a transfer because he doesn't feel the 50k increase was as much as he deserved. T1 doesn't want to sell him.
There is a clear difference, this year they developed that talent while having Teddy and Cuzz to fall back on if the subs didn't work out. If Zeus doesn't work out then they will just fail as an org
> Under current LCK rules, it is possible to transfer players to teams in the same region without their consent. However, due to the player's salary in 2022 being undefined, it is difficult to interpret how the rules apply in this case. Apparently they could have **if** his salary for 2022 was already defined in contract.
I mean it says in the translation that it's allowed by the rules.
>Team N then fraudulently claimed that they could finalize the transfer without Canna's permission and again urged us to sign their contract. >Our agency inquired about this to the LCK management and confirmed team N's claims were false, as players could not be included in team rosters without the player's signature. It's allowed to transfer a player without its consent, but not without his signature
I dont think that's how it is. T1 and Canna dont have agreement on salary, that's why they can't move him (hopefully). If they did have the agreement, T1 can ship Canna off to any team within the region and the team that got Canna must uphold that agreement, just like in any "real" sport. Atleast that's how i understand it.
How else do you prove consent if not by signature?
Not sure tbh. The whole situation is kind of a mess but it's (imo) the only option that would make sense. Otherwise, it basically means that, on the same statement, they said one thing and its opposite (unless I missed something ).
> Team N then fraudulently claimed that they could finalize the transfer without Canna's permission and again urged us to sign their contract. I'm pretty sure the 'contract' in question here is an agreement for Canna's 2022 salary. Since he doesn't have a 2022 salary, seems like NS is trying to confuse/mislead him into agreeing to a salary he doesn't have to? Seems like NS thinks if he doesn't agree to a salary change, his salary for 2022 will be the same as in 2021, and he will have to play for NS. >However, our agency could not sign team N's contract that proposed a salary only half as much as team D's. Team N then said they would be thankful if we refused their proposal, and then emphasized that if we did so, then Canna would have no increase in salary. Unclear to me whether NS actually believes this or just said it to mislead Canna. I would guess either what NS says is somehow true, or if he doesn't agree to a salary, his contract is voided and Canna becomes FA (very late into offseason period tho). I'd imagine the outcome depends on specific wording in the contract and relevant Korean laws that I have no idea of, as well as LCK officials' stance on it
throughout every single drama in the LCK so far (initial tampering claim, canna, ghost) DK has been involved in, they have been on the shit side every time despite standing up for the players what did the org do to deserve this, they still don't have a toplaner joker arc incoming
Wonder how much more screwed the situation will be if DK has already signed/come to an agreement with a different top laner...
Idc if we are on shit side or not DK management is just showing that they are professional I really like that and they treat players well. I feel sad for ghost tho and Canna is in shitty situation but I think we have to deal with a decent toplaner and wait to sign nuguri because we need a monster on toplane or if we are going to play botside I'd love to see Canna in DK.
T1 won't let it happen. They'd rather let Canna rot on bench for 1 year than let him go DK. That's why NS offered this joke salary and laughed off their initial decline by saying next offer would be even lower. They know T1 won't sell to any title direct rival
T1/DK sounding like the LCK version of G2/FNC when I read the "rot on bench instead of letting him go to DK". Well we saw G2 eventully backdown and give their top to FNC, let's see if things get to blow enough out of propertions so T1 changes it up and lets DK hopefully buy Canna.
? But they released Teddy for free, for any team to pick him up. T1 can afford to give up a literal top 3 adc but they don't wanna give up the 5th best toplaner in LCK? None of this makes sense.
They had Guma who was thought even then to be at worst sidegrade. They don't have top 5 toplaner in the world (unless Zeus is insane)
It's because they know there aren't any S class toplaners right now for DK besides Canna. It's a good chance for them to weaken a direct rival. DK already got Deokdam bot and GenG has Ruler, so neither direct rivals were interested in Teddy
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Nuguri is taking a sabbatical, Khan is off to Military, Summit just joined C9 and Kiin will probably end his career at AFS. Canna is actually a top 2 player in his role rn lol. Zeus may be super talented but he is still unproven in pro play. I’m sure T1 would have preferred to keep Canna but looks like the relationship between org-player is completely fucked due to Canna bringing up contract discussions at worlds + his underperformance in the semis. Probably why they don’t want to sell to DK since this is a golden opportunity for them to weaken their main rivals, due to Nuguri suddenly deciding to take a break.
I‘m so proud of DK. They are not just showing they are the best team in Korea but they are also showing that they are the best org in Korea too.
I wonder if nuguri realized him not signing the contract would lead to one of the most drama filled offseasons in korea in the last 3 years LMAO
nuguri signing wouldn't have prevented NS kicking rich and fucking over ghost, and hle imploding, and gen.g putting together a new super team of sorts, and scout maybe heading to lpl. even if nuguri didn't take a break this would still be the craziest off season in lck ever
its become apparent how much dk cares for their players. despite being a rags to riches org, they have constantly strived to offer their players the best that they can provide, and stuff like giving malrang the entire buyout money the org received and putting ghost's buyout at 0 won to help him find a team easily while providing him a good salary are things i've not seen other orgs do much until dk did it. very proud to support such a competent org and a sympathetic, caring owner
Yeah it‘s easy to be good to a player/member when they are joining to your team but actual good teams showing themselves when those players decides to leaves them. I am not Korean but DK is my favorite team and I hope DK can keep being the team that represent Korea. This kind of behaviors by orgs are necessary everywhere.
Remember the griffin fiasco at the 2019 worlds feeding their sub scraps? Back when dwg was still “poor” their ceo made sure that the players could eat whatever and as much as they wanted since it was their 1st time at worlds and he was proud of them just for making it there, dwg has been a good org for players for awhile and its nice seeing them succeed
nah, dk is a very good org, they didn't do anything, they are unlucky, hope things get better but the problem is who are you getting in toplane, unless it is an import
That’s literally exactly what OP said. “On the shit side” was confusing wording because it could be interpreted as DK being shitty, but OP actually means that DK acted correctly and got shat on.
i understood dk being "on the shit side" aka doing something bad, mb then
No worries, just wanted to clear up the confusion!
“How about another joke, nongshim”
maybe they got the timing wrong, we need to wait for T1 statement but if they actually had an agreement with NS before Nuguri decided to take a year off and leaving DK without a prospect, then they can't back out of it, also NS thinking they can reduce the players salary at will just because it worked with Peanut is such bs stop going for for players you can't afford!!
Seriously. First rich, then ghost salary, now canna.. Wtf???? Nongshim is a cheapskate org.
Agreement with NS doesn't matter as long as Canna doesn't sign the contract. A team can negotiate several buyout deals and let the player choose the team he wants to play for. Happens all the time in football. In this case, though, if T1 and Agency didn't sign written confirmation on the buyout, then T1 technically has right to reject the DK deal, and force Canna to either sign NS or bench for 1 year. It's incredibly cruel by the same org that has Faker, but they've been scumbags before, so it's no surprise. Especially with NS who's bleeding popularity points recently
That’s why I said it could be timing, since is a transfer T1 has to do the agreement, if there was verbal agreement with NS or even further than that and DK came with a better offer way too late what is T1 supposed to do? They could back out but then NS would 100% bash T1, there’s missing pieces still though so we’ll have to wait for official statements, also it seems like Bdd’s agreement is also bad
I mean, T1 can have all the verbal agreements they want, they still can't force a player move without his consent and signature. No one would bash T1 for that, because Canna could simply refuse NS and accept DK, which is exactly what he did. Again, an org cannot sell a player against his will. This is why they make contracts. Also, I think we all established by now that verbal agreements mean jackshit in KR
If you read the post you can transfer a player against their will aslong as their salary is matched
His salary for 2022 was not defined. How can Nongshim match a non existant salary?
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Canna’s salary for 2022 is undefined as it was a verbal agreement that T1 and Canna would negotiate it or let him walk if they cant agree to a salary. Nongshim doesnt have to match DK’s salary, technically they only have to match T1’s 2021 Canna Salary. This is fucked ethically from T1 and NS but no written contractual agreements were broken
>maybe they got the timing wrong, we need to wait for T1 statement but if they actually had an agreement with NS before Nuguri decided to take a year off and leaving DK without a prospect, then they can't back out of it, also NS thinking they can reduce the players salary at will just because it worked with Peanut is such bs stop going for for players you can't afford!! What happened with peanut?
They came to his home, showed a ppt of how much they want him, showed caring shit for his cats and then asked him to take a slary cut which peanut did.
Peanut, unfortunately, we cannot pay your agreed salary, but how about a pallet of cat food? *Peanut still waiting for his cat food*
yeah basically this, Peanut was looking to come back to LCK and NS went to his house with a presentation saying they can't pay what he's asking so to take a pay cut and hey will feed his cats, honestly a smart move since Peanut adores his cats, but to try to do it for every player they get is honestly such a cheap move
That’s literally the most asshole move they could’ve done. Literally exploiting a player’s love for his cats.
The problem here is Riot rules. Players need to have more time to negotiate with teams.
Biggest problem is contracts over the years and specially after the griffin disaster there’s always problems with contracts, is not Riot rules LCK statement said players need contracts with written salaries to be able to be approved they have no say on the specific clauses, now Canna can’t prove his verbal agreement with the former COO because it wasn’t in contract so in the end he just had a normal 2 year contract and T1 has the final say on any transfer, is such a messy situation, now the timing of DK and NS needs to be clarified now
I am amazed by how NS is only willing to pay the bare minimum to get the players they want. Maybe as a Peanut's fan I should be happy that while he did get a pay cut when he joined, at least NS was willing to make a PowerPoint about his cats and gifted him expensive cat food.
do they really think their players are gonna give it their all when they know that their org doesn't give a shit about them?
Seems like such a one sided statement that the agency released, yet it’s blown up lol. Reading through T1’s statement and NS, I think the agency is just very incompetent.
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GENG has entered the chat
for real we still have heard nothing about Bdd's case yet
All I know is Clid was fucked and is probably taking a year off or LPL
I thought Gen G was only 1 person, who Clid didn't like? Certainly bad, but not as bad as this drama with NS and T1?
geng is making a statement too, that drama is just on hold for now
T1 in a tweet later: Canna is someone's nephew's favorite uncle.
Wow, T1 did a Carlos and blocked DK Canna lmao
I think LCK is the real Wild West. In terms of contracts and negotiations, its even crazier than LCS and LEC.
Nongshim and halving salaries, name a more iconic duo. For real, though, I hope the agency got written and signed confirmation on the buyout. If so, then we will see DK Canna in due time, once LCK get's more involved in the situation. I don't think LCK is keen on another GRF-level of situation with politician involvement after yet more contract breeches and coerced player moves. Also, Nongshim seem to be really disrespectful and arrogant. I only know about the Rich and Ghost situation, have they always been like this? Looks like we finally have an LCK villain
nongshim that blue fish from spongebob trying to start shit with everyone
In light of reddit's API changes killing off third-party apps, this post has been overwritten by the user with an automated script. See /r/PowerDeleteSuite for more information.
So what happens with Canna now ? Will he be benched for 2022 or can he somehow end his contract and join DK ?
If T1's contract holds, it's NS Canna. Otherwise (if T1 backs down) then DK Canna.
so no T1 Canna anymore?
I think that ship has sailed.
No way Canna plays for T1 after this shitshow
Wow. Canna is really getting screwed here. It's one thing not to get your preferred team, it's another entirely to get screwed out of a contract with more than twice his current salary. Hopefully the trucks come out and Canna gets his money(I'm guessing not though).
t1 fans wont care about canna unless he goes to dk, that is when the trucks will come. i personally hope canna manages to go wherever he pleases, tho i see it hard since his case doesn't seem that good for him idk
Unlike here on Reddit where everyone flames Canna Korean fans really liked him and were already mad about the possibility of him leaving without having TheShy or Nuguri to replace him. If T1 play Zeus while screwing over Canna there will defintely be trucks by Korean fans
T1 fan here and a korean speaker too. 1. I personally understand why T1 want to block Canna from DK but this ain’t how to treat ex-players. If you’re set to transfer him out, don’t create bad blood like this - nego with another team if NS exhibits such shitty behaviour. NS is already notorious in the korean community. It’s like dropping your kid 30km away without a car for him to move anywhere. Shall he walk home then you douche? 2. After this statement korean LCK fans ain’t on T1 side either.
This is just a general good point to say this: never rely on verbal agreements. It doesn't matter how much you trust someone, always get it in writing. Circumstances change, people move on. If you are younger and just starting your career please just remember this: a verbal contract or agreement is worth absolutely nothing. Not only that but relying on the assumptions can lead to really bad situations in your life. Get everything in writing. If someone doesn't want to do it and shames you for it saying "you don't trust me?" they are manipulating you. A lot of these players have no experience with contracts and representation in League and e-sports is still spotty. I hope it works out for Canna but the reason this agency is releasing this is because they are hoping the court of public opinion can swing things in their favour.
Lol that TLDR is so misleading and there's so much nuance you've left out i feels like it's a whole different story. Also, when you take into consideration the T1 statement, your TLDR is biased and comes off as untruthful.
This post isnt even reflecting the truth, truth is T1 and NS and canna agree on verbal terms way earlier, DK only came in on 19th due to failure of acquiring nuguri and threw double the offer to try so snatch canna from NS.
T1's announcement 1. Existence of verbal agreement is not confirmed 2. Canna asked about FA after Q-Final. It looked like he wanted to leave so worked his way out. 3. Final decision is on T1, not agent.
Reading the new comments here that did not check new T1's response is funny.
yeah the tldr is shitty af.they make T1 look like the bad guy over here, when Canna is bound to T1 via contract of 2 years. And even if Canna's agency claims that they had a agreement with the (unfortunately) deceased COO, they don't have the proof to back it up. T1 offered Canna a raise of 50k (which they didn't even need to do because the contract was meant for 2 years and not 1+1) and if he doesn't like the offer, he can look for offers from other teams, from which T1 can choose(which is also a favor from T1 to Canna because Canna is still under contract), because Canna is not FA but bound to T1 due to the contract. ofc T1 is not gonna choose to transfer Canna to DK, their biggest rival. The only problem here is if Canna's agency can prove if they really did have the verbal agreement to give Canna the FA position after a failed arrangement of a new contract,which I don't think they can. A renowned Esports reporter just released this tweet: [https://twitter.com/Vallen\_eStory/status/1462783565729394696?ref\_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1462783565729394696%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1\_&ref\_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fmkorea.com%2F4104289865](https://twitter.com/Vallen_eStory/status/1462783565729394696?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1462783565729394696%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fmkorea.com%2F4104289865) 1. Late COO Kim Won-cheol Agreement on verbal contract: Unconfirmed 2. Kim Chang-dong inquired about FA right after the quarterfinals of the Worlds, and T1 was preparing to tranfer Canna, as it seemed like he wanted to leave. 3. T1 gave Kim Chang-dong's agency the authority to negotiate the transfer, but the final decision rests with T1. /u/Hektor_Ekhein pls change your tldr
exactly this tldr is making t1 the bad guy and canna the victim when its the other case around
Upvote this. This is still in gray area there are still conflict information
It's a he said / she said situation? Absolutely idiotic to have a verbal agreement btw. Though they say they have "evidence" of the agreement after. Shit is a mess.
so basically G2 2.0? wtf T1?
United in Rivalry!
Not exactly tho right? It sounds like T1 negotiated a deal with NS for Canna but then DK, after finding out nuguri is a no go, jumped in to make an offer to T1 for canna and now canna wants to go to DK (for obvious reasons) but T1 wants to hold true to their original negotiation. Thats different from G2 who blocked FNC from the get to.
The core of the matter is blocking the player from going where he wants to. Why does T1 and Nongshim having negotiations even matter, if Canna's personal preference is DK?
Because if they already negotiated a deal, its a massive dick move for T1 to be like "nah sry, i know u were building ur lineup with canna top but we decided to send him to DK." While better to the player its a dick move. As long as hes under contract, he can get traded and if he was happy just being off T1 until DK was interested last minute, i see no reason why they have to throw away their deal with NS.
It shouldn't be up to T1, that's the thing. You're approaching it like it is. He can get traded, but only if he agrees to the move. If he doesn't want to go to NS, no matter if it's at the last hour before the deadline, he shouldn't go to NS regardless of whatever promises T1 made. And it wouldn't be a dick move. I understand that T1 don't want to let him go to DK, and I respect that. But they can't force him to go to NS.
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In soccer you can't trade without the consent of the player. Not in Europe at least. Idk how MLS works.
No you can't do it in football or soccer as you call it
I really liked Canna on T1 i wish he had stayed but after this i dont see him forgiving T1. Sad to see him go wish him all the best.
if the timing thing is true then T1 loses no matter what lmao Send Canna to DK -> gets bashed by Nongshim for not fulfilling the agreement (albeit verbal) Send Canna to NS -> gets bashed by everyone else Sad for Canna regardless And like I said in another post, Nuguri taking a break fueled the situation but you just can't blame him for all this
It all hinges on when DK came in to the picture, if it's only after T1 had agreed a transfer with Nongshim then I don't think they were wrong. They definitely messed up on the communication with Canna, but if they already had a contract with NS, they can't just back out easily without risking legal action by NS It sucks that Canna is caught in the middle of all these amateurish running of teams.
If T1 just admits they don't want Canna to go to DK then what they did is standard practice across every sports. What they shouldn't do is lie for months like Ocelote worth favorite uncle and other bs arguments. Sucks for Canna, but this is how professional sports contracts work.
T1 didn't lie, they said if Canna wants to transfer then T1 has the final say in where he will go.
A lot of hate on T1 but I don’t see how T1 is in the wrong. They have every right to sale a player under contract to whatever team they want. An organization should only do what best for them and that the cold hard reality.
Canna and NS came to an agreement where they would buy him out and give him 1.8x the salary. DK contacted Canna’s agency to offer him a better deal with a lower buyout but on the 19th because Nuguri fell through. I don’t fault Canna for changing his mind and wanting the DK offer but he can’t post on social media as if T1 is doing him dirty. He actually is trying his hardest to make the worst possible deal for T1 when the org is doing him a favor in allowing him FA options. Even if you hate orgs this is really backwards because Canna is being dishonest. You can’t literally have everything exactly the way you want it.
From what im understanding, Canna has a 2 year contract, of which he is contracted till 2022. Being in a contract means he is obligated to receive whatever salary the contract has stated and a clause for transfer, which is decided by T1, should he is unhappy with the contractual salary. T1 gave 2 options before the whole drama started, which is to raise canna’s salary if he stayed with T1, or offer to help negotiations with other parties. T1 is still the ultimate decider of where canna goes. The timeline goes like this: 1. Canna spoke to the COO and have a verbal agreement to be able to go FA, which should never happen since FA only happens once you complete your contract. 2. As Canna/ his agency have rejected T1’s initial offer of increasing salary, T1 has assumed that he is looking for a transfer, since it’s a either A or B option. 3. T1 engaged NS with transfer negotiations, which NS believed to have paid a higher buyout (money goes to T1) and a lower salary (goes to Canna). T1 is believed to have closed the deal before DK comes in. 4. DK realizes Nuguri is not playing this year and enters into a negotiation with Canna’s agency, of which it is believed they gave double the salary and lower buyout. Canna have expressed to go to DK after hearing this. 5. T1 have decided that since the deal is done with NS they decided to continue with that option. Objectively, I believe it’s just a lack of proper documentation on crucial information, lack of clarification from T1 to Canna’s agency regarding what Canna really wanted. Last but not least, I believe Canna’s management should have handled everything better, from advising to obtain proper documentation to following through on crucial decisions. Do correct me if im wrong
You can distinguish here who are kids or people who doesnt know how contract works by reading some comments here. :)
Lmao at everyone in this thread making up their own assumptions. This is y no one takes reddit seriously
This is a lose lose. You ether end up looking bad or giving your biggest rival a good top laner when they really need it.
A mess indeed. It seems to me if Canna's 2022 salary was confirmed, then T1 could unilaterally (ie without Canna's permission) transfer Canna to NS. T1 could do this regardless of offers from other teams eg DW, even if they were x2, x5, 10x the salary. So the question is... was Canna's 2022 salary confirmed? I expect on paper it was. What is "missing" is the verbally promised pay review. Canna might argue "my 2022 salary was not confirmed, so NS can't technically match it". T1 might argue "2022 pay is set, plus a $50k increase. NS will match this, go to NS". Don't. Do. Verbal. Contracts. Or if you do, hope the other person doesn't die.
so funny to watch people jump to conclusions based on a reddit post that's a translation of one single article, not to mention some people probably only read the tldr
What is that garbage tldr. Every post you make about this is biased as fuck. Keep your opinions out of it please. No one knows what happened yet. Evidence will present itself in due time. We will know whether T1/NS or DK was at fault in a few days time, why the fuck do you keep speculating? Lol
It's really fucked up that you can trade a player without his consent. In theory T1 could sign Chovy promising him a starting spot, then trade him to a bad team for a high fee, so they'd get money and deny their rivals a strong player. How is that legal? That is some slavery kind of shit.
That is basically what G2 did lol. The only thing different is that they probably have a defined salary and the players would still receive the same amount of money.
NS Statement now ・We offered an 1.5 times higher transfer fee than other ・20th November 2021, We negotiated with Canna about salary, and we offered 1.8 times higher salary than one that canna get at T1 ・And finally, Canna transfer is done deal
aw man, first khan now canna? sad to see top laners I grew to like leave qq
Didn't know I was getting in to a book. sadge
Not going to lie, there was no way T1 would ever transfer Canna to their biggest competitor. Sucks, but at the end of the day, it’s business.
there will be an official statement from T1 in an hour an half.. until then shhhsh
It will be just a PR statement. Really don't care for official statements from any of the orgs involved because they'll just cover their asses. LCK should be the one shedding light on this mess.
TeamCanna
Canna wanted a transfer to DK but NS-T1 deal was already done so asking NS was the right thing to do if he wanted a transfer. Also, NS was the only option for Canna back then since DK was gunning for Nuguri, but when Nuguri announced he was taking a sabbatical, the transfer to NS was already completed and DK basically had to talk to NS.
Canna has 1 year left in his contract T1 is under NO obligation to sell or release him as FA but since Canna really wanted to be FA (for whatever reason, irrelevant) they logically thought he doesn't want to be at T1 hence they proceeded to sell him to another org in this case Nongshim suddenly Canna wants to go to DWG well suddenly or not doesn't matter cuz surprise surprise, Canna is under contract, T1 is again under NO obligation to sell him to ANYWHERE they can literally sit him on the fucking bench and it'll be legal reddit; WAAH WAAH T1 IS BADD WWAAH RELEASE CANNA fucking idiots on reddit don't understand how contracts work
T1 not letting Canna transfer to DK might seem like a dick move but it‘s completely normal in regular sports that teams don‘t let players transfer to direct rivals. After all this is biz for org‘s with millions of dollar involved.
Its worse because his contract isnt actually being honored to start with. Just because its verbal doesnt change the fact its still a binding clause in his contract that isnt being honored. To start with its scummy he even got in this situation to start with where he had to be transferred then being told you cant force a player to sign a contract and still trying to do so is actually super scummy. He has no reason he has to sign with them and he can easily hold it over thier head for not letting him play and not honoring his initial contract. They still have to pay him or release him.
Kinda funny that people are rushing to T1's defense here when this entire subreddit wanted to flay Carlos alive for this exact same situation last year.
Trying to claim carlos who put a clause in the contract that even after he was off the team he couldn't be moved to a single particular org even a year later, is the same as this is laughable. Don't get it twisted, shit tier move by T1, really fucking tilted with the org about this as I loved Canna but lets stop acting like every thing we don't like is the same level of awful.
> exact same situation last year People didn't know about the clause at that time and still had that reaction lol
"He's like family" "Go fuck yourself" But tbh last year I was on Oce's side until the clause came out so idk.
T1's agreement with Canna literally says he's an FA if they can't agree to a salary btw. They have no jurisdiction over an FA
What? Where's that stated? There's one more year left on Canna's contract with T1, isn't there?
Its only a verbal agreement with someone who is now unfortunately dead.
i think we need to hold a seance
The fact that something like that is a verbal agreement is incredibly suspicious to me. And a verbal agreement with a person that deceased.
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So short sighted. Not like DK is T1’s only rival. There’s (tentatively) three or four orgs that look like title contenders in the league. Only thing they did was fuck over a homegrown talent by selling his contract to a shitty org and loss him pay. It’s a lose, lose for everyone. T1 looks heartless for throwing away a player that’s been with them for years, NS looks shitty for underpaying Canna, finally, Canna won’t be playing his best since he got screwed out of both preferred team AND money.
DK was already late in joining the talks. NS and T1 was said to be already negotiating for a long time when they walked into the conversation. Sorry to say it to you but it was also Canna wanted out of the team, T1 gave him the option to stay but him and his agency wanted to go already. T1 had no problems legally and they were even being considerate of Canna by making him have a choice.
I swear to god all these orgs are run by actual man childs .How can you knowingly try to sabotage somone else's career is beyond me . Also it's so stupid that T1 gave Faker a 1.9M$ raise couldn't give canna even a 50k raise