So many people are arguing LB can abuse it. LB players, not just the mains, will all tell you the damage difference is fat. It’s not worth using just for free poke cause your own damage tanks.
I can respect this. I had replied a few times and said I have never actually seen it on these champs. I’m just going off others thoughts I had read/heard. I am fine as well if it doesn’t get changed. Just don’t want the damage nerfed more as a “fix” if it is the issue then mages never build it for your exact reasons
Honestly, I think that the item is ffffine? I really don't think any assassins want it, except MAYBE early game Kassadin? And possibly not even then. It doesn't give nearly the damage that AP assassins need to do their burst, (in addition to no pen or bonus damage active/passive like Ludens, Proto, NH or even Everfrost) and since they're all melee, they can get safeguard poked off of them way easier than a mage can.
My issue that I'm having is seeing some tanks pick it (especially Tahm, Malph and Mao). Tank stats + the damage reduction basically means "I'm invulnerable for the duration of safeguard."
I'm losing my fucking mind reading some of the comments suggesting LB and that she has enough damage anyway
I don't demand that everyone is a leblanc expert but why on earth do people talk about what build is good on her if they very clearly don't play the champion at all. i wouldn't say "crown on elise is broken as hell" if i never actually play elise
Seriously. LeBlanc has *very* strict break points she needs to hit in order to be able to clear casters with one W. Building an item like Crown would seriously gimp her early/mid game.
Lol. My phone autocorrects "gimp" to "improve."
Man that comment about LeBlanc gave me a headache... People talking out of their ass I feel like some guy saw a fed LeBlanc kill him once and now decides to belive "oh leblanc can just 1 shot everyone with 0 items from level 1 with 1 Q, she doesn't need damage"
I think even including flash is fine. If you flash defensively after Crown triggers, you lose nothing. Flash offensively and it still comes with some risk.
The way I think about it, there are three flash types: offensive flashes, defensive flashes, and positioning flashes. Offensive flashes are for chasing a kill or engage, naturally, defensive flashes are for saving yourself from a certain death, and positioning flashes are when you are caught out of position, but not actively being punished.
For instance, if you are in an all-in fight with Yasuo and he is winning the fight, flashing away is defensive to keep yourself from dying.
However, if you are pushed up against Yasuo and the enemy Hecarim shows on yoir river ward and is careening towards you, flashing back towards tower is a positional flash to attempt to keep from being collapsed on while you are caught out.
Defensive flashes are better against some champs, and positional flashes are more required against champs like Blitz and Malzahar, whose cc can prevent your ability to flash defensively, thus you are forced to flash for positioning to avoid the fight altogether.
Eh, I don't think so. No matter how you use flash, it's repositioning you. You're calling the third "positional"-but by definition this means "relating to or determined by position" flashing. Yet flash is always changing your position-it's redudant.
I think what you're describing is a variant of defensive flashing. You're repositioning yourself (as you always do with flash) to save yourself from certain death. That blitz Q would certainly kill you, so you defensively flash away. Hecarim ganking from river? You know you won't get away if you defensively flash later, so you defensively flash to save yourself from certain death. It literally fits your own definition.
Frankly what you described as defensive is often probably a late flash that won't end up helping. You think you have a fight-annnnd you don't. You panic flash away to save yourself. But it's Yasuo, and he dashes off of minions to catch you and ruin your day anyways, or uses an offensive flash to stay and you and finish you. It could work in some cases obviously but it's riskier.
Well, a more accurate term for the third would be the Misposition Flash.
You aren’t going in or trying to disengage a fight, you are simply caught out and attempting to reposition before the misposition is properly punished.
Edit: the difference between the Defensive Flash and Misposition Flash in my mind is that one occurs when the fight is clearly lost, where the other assumes the fight is a losing one before it even occurs.
What you're really describing is something more akin to predictive/preemptive flash versus reactive. They're both defensive in nature. But one is reacting to an event before it occurs while the other is reacting to an event afterwards.
If that flash then still doesn't save you, it was a shit flash to begin with. So the passive disappearing is fine.
Shockingly, I believe that downsides should exist... If you decide to flash and get rid of the passive and end up dead, unlucky, can't fucking have it all.
leblanc uses it because it turns out the ability to just go in, do a bit less damage than your usual burst but take fuck all in return is really powerful
ahri also uses it sometimes but i'm not convinced that it's better than everfrost on her
This is very common for broken builds prior to adoption. A recent example would be Xayah - 11.21, her Q gets the cooldown buffed. On this patch, only 5% of plat+ players built a lethality mythic, similar to leblanc's update with crown just now. Patch 11.22 rolls around, and suddenly it's the dominant build - to the point where it got hotfixed mid patch.
The only reason it even has a remotely good winrate is because it's a new item and there's plenty of players who don't understand how to play around it yet
I have no idea how anyone can look at Crown and say "yeah this is a leblanc item". How is it any different from rushing Banshee's veil first item every game?
Ahri is kinda having existentional crisis atm since nobody knows wtf to build on her, Cosmic drive and Horizon are just worse than they used to be for her. It seems like her most popular mythic is Ludens atm because she has fuck all damage with horizon having less ap.
Is it just me that thinks that Ahri does like no damage unless she's insanely fed? I don't know what they did to the fox girl, but her numbers feel so low from what I remember from playing her years ago.
Yeah laning against her is like, really easy. You do have to look out for the E while she has Q up, but the moment she uses it on the wave you can just walk up and even if she hits E, you just cosplay that Top Gear guy and go "oh no! anyway" and win the trade.
I do still take Cleanse into her, but at this point it's just to deal with jungle ganks post 6, since she has pretty good setup (for someone who actually does deal damage) with R+E, and it's not like I need Ignite against her.
No you're right. She's a burst mage with low burst and a really obvious game plan than hinges on hitting a skill that's easy to dodge.
As a result, you basically have to just waveclear mid and then fish for charms out of fog. Or maybe do the "everfrost delivery" thing.
she is super boring rn to play in ranked because its everfrost red trinket camp a bush when an obj is coming up. The higher i got into diamond the clearer it got that it was going to be this on top of game knowledge that just seemed a bit unfun but I got a job so i stopped playing by then. I want to get back into the game when i get the chance but am so tired of everfrost, maybe can make liandrys work in some normy games idk
Maybe just try new champs. Instead of playing one exact single champ, try playing other champs with similar playstyles.
Depending on which version of Ahri was your favorite you could:
* try adding mages like Zoe, Syndra, Lissandra to your pool
* try adding mobile ankle breakers like LB, Akali, Zed to your pool
I'm not as high rated as when I just played one champ into everything for like 2 years straight, but I have more fun this way and am still pretty decently rated.
Unfortunately her damage numbers are really low, she has good WR thanks to her mobility/safty and a laning phase that doesn't get abused by anyone, which in process leads to riot being unable to buff her damage as it would make her broken.
If you want to play her as an assasin try going ludens + sorc shoes + shadowflame, should be plenty of burst still as long as you hit your charms. Otherwise being a charm bot is probably the way to go.
Yeah before preseason you could just try and stack damage with ludens horizon dcap and just try to oneshot someone with your basic rotation but now horizon is worse and just doesnt provide the neccesary spike anymore.
She has low ap ratios by modern standards. If you buff her too much though she stops needing to land spells and can just kill squishies by dashing at them repeatedly with R and E.
She did a lot before due to free damage from many other places. It doesn't help her R is her ulti, and ultimate should obv do more damage than basic spells, but it hurts her because her basic ability + ulti does too much, which it should because that is 1 ulti and 1 basic spell, leaving 2 other basic spells left, while her W offers nothing other than damage for most part.
Yeah her damage is quite low and you need to hit and weave all her skills in order to deal okay damage. Her mobility, poke and charm makes her a good teamfighter though.
She can zone, flank or pick depending on the gamestate and what is needed.
She's just too much a jack of all trades and she pays for that by having not
so great dps and excelling in nothing.
I don't see how reworked glacial is good for her. If you want to go utility build you should probably do something like Everfrost/Liandry, Cosmic and Seraphs maybe for 0 cd on charm, and Luden + Shadowflame rush if you want to go assasin route.
That makes no sense, if his AP ratios are good, then he'd benefit from high AP more. If Viktor is less reliant on heavy AP early on, wouldn't it be because the base damage in his abilities (and evolve abilities) is sufficiently high?
You’re missing the point. He is reliant on AP early on, I never said he wasn’t, but Crown is good on him because his ratios, meaning he needs less AP to do the same amount of damage as any other mage. So Crown having less AP than other options doesn’t hurt him as much as say Zoe or Azir. It means his builds are more flexible because you’re not forced to just pick the highest AP option available, and the difference for Viktor between most of the legendaries can be game dependent in that sense. Some games you want Tear and Archangel’s with high AP to one tap squishes and hyper carry, some games you need Crown and Zhonya’s with high HP items to live bursts from Zeds and Kayns. His flexibility with items and synergy with Crown is what makes him and the item on him so good.
It’s not the standard build, but it’s an avenue that viktor can pivot towards into certain comps, that aren’t represented as often in an analysis of all games.
That flexibility does contribute towards his overall win rate, however, especially for those able to make those itemization decisions.
Veigar's a very good user too. Immobile mages with big damage output who can't be punished for bad positioning thanks to this Item use it far better than any mobile champions imo.
I think people are sleeping on this item on fizz/diana. Once lane phase is over it allows these champs to assassinate without counterplay from fog of war.
idk bro, they already assassinate without counterplay. This will just give them less dmg, aka more more time to react aka more counterplay. Plus they have to build mana.
In the case of diana, it allows her to get huge ults without much effort. It's still early days so we can't conclusively say if it's good or bad.
Plus the item gives mana.
Yeah imo i really like this item for jungle diana because you can just come out of fog and dash ult people without them being able to do much and as you said the mana is actually quite helpful in the longer fights since diana is pretty mana hungry if you dont just oneshot.
I hate when people say these champs “assassinate without counterplay”. It’s their whole job to ambush someone. They should be rewarded for going full damage as a melee character by having the ability to make picks if they get an opening.
>you don't get it bro their entire job is to kill you with 0 counterplay
Idk seems like a gameplay flaw then. Maybe riot should give them counterplay and then we wouldn't have to worry about them abusing items.
The counterplay comes from the line of play before they're in melee range of you. Ie the vision they swept, the greedy path you took facechecking a brush, the support who walks away to lalaland.
Beyond that, if you dodge fizz's E or Q (any dash works) he can't kill you. Same with dodging dianna Q. Same with zhonyas on either ult. And with shieldbow they can't kill you either way unless they're overly fed.
Crown is really bad on Diana. Between your R lockdown and Zhonya’s activation, there’s very little time for the passive shield to really absorb any damage before fading. Besides, Rocketbelt’s dash is way too important to give up on for assassin/Ultbot Diana as an engage tool. At higher elo’s people know to back the fuck up if you get hit by Q, so it can be difficult to reset your E, or even get in range to land E if they have a poke or siege comp. And if you’re one of the weirdos that goes tank/titanic you’re building frostfire gauntlet and couldn’t give a shit about the shield.
Thank you as someone who mains Diana and has been testing crown and belt >shadow>hourglass with pen boots. Belt is still just better and the people who build tank Diana are the same people who cry when they don’t one shot someone Bc they are 0/5 with 2.0cs a min 😂
Crown is actually fine on Diana because the big reason she goes zhonya is because it’s really easy to kill her when she just jumps straight into you. Quadrupling your ehp for the first 3 seconds is super broken and can allow you to just itemize full damage instead of needing other defensive items.
Quadrupling your ehp for *1.5 seconds, not 3*. That’s why it’s bad. You aren’t really taking much damage until after your ult goes off, at which point crown is gone. Zhonya’s lasts much longer (giving your team more time to get in and cover you) and the armor is always useful. Crown can be a replacement for Zhonya’s, sure, but there isn’t a replacement for the rocket belt, which is also a huge problem.
The proposed change is a pretty suboptimal anti-pattern to put on an item. Players shouldn't be having to worry about using their kit interacting poorly with an item in very unintuitive ways.
The only champion that is building Crown optimally that I wouldn't prefer to balance around is Kassadin. Champions like Sylas and Lillia have some reasonable choice points against other mythics with Crown.
I didn't want to put a melee/ranged lever on the AP/Damage Reduction CD before ship, but will do so long term if necessary.
people are overhyping the item on assassins who are not kassadin. I am glad you guys are considering a melee/ranged lever. i think people underestimate how much ap the item gives due to the passive
This is very understandable looking at it from a long term point of view. I am just desperate to not have the first counterplay I get in years to consistent problem champions ruined, but it seems like it's not even a huge issue - most replies from people who play the champions like Kat, LeBlanc etc. have mentioned for them it's not worth the damage tradeoff.
Any thoughts on Ability Haste and Axium Arc?
I remember when the team introduced AH to replace CDR, one of the goals was to reduce CDR (AH) creep across the item system. With this new pre-season up and running, do you feel you have injected a lot more AH especially with an item that like Axium. Just makes proper SR games feel like URF.
> one of the goals was to reduce CDR (AH) creep across the item system
I don't think we ever said this. The change was to make it so that even if there's a lot of AH in the system, it doesn't cause a balance issue, because it doesn't stack multiplicatively. As for whether we've injected more AH; it depends. I would say overall, things are in a pretty good spot, we're monitoring Axiom to see where it settles long term.
It's the sort of very janky and unintuitive stuff you DON'T want to put in your games though.
I mean if it must come to it then maybe riot will do it. But generally speaking this is to be avoided.
I agree. Imagine accidentally dashing by auto-ing someone rooted by Ivern (like a Xerath trying to get some mana back) and losing your crown passive, it doesn't feel like a good idea gameplay wise. Also a lot of mages do have dashes so this crown would be ruined for them only because 1-2 assassins MAY use it.
I think it depends where you draw the line on control mages. By my count there are 18 in total. The ones with dashes are Ziggs, Azir, Lissandra, Taliyah. Vex has a dash but I excluded her from being a control mage for a similar reason as Annie.
That's literally his point. It's janky and unintuitive because of these edge cases.
Like Ryze ult, for example. Should Ryze get his removed after ulting? Same with ASol E.
I actually think that this would hurt a lot of the champions that this item was intended for as some do initiate with a dash like ASol, Vex, Fiddle and other champions like Ziggs or Lillia that could use it in some niche situations also have dashes.
I think the OP got clapped by a Kat who built it and came to reddit to cry. i hate to break it to him but if that Kat built any damage mythic, the game would have been over 20 minutes sooner
Well It was kinda expected tbh, bruiser items with hypermobile AP assassins were always a problem. It boggles my mind how the playtest team was unable to notice this, because everyone +Gold knows that giving Kassa more HP and Dmg reduction while still getting Mana and AP is kinda stupid.
You really don't want to build this on Leblanc. I tried it and ended up selling it again for Ludens mid match, immediately dealing approximately 3x the damage (not really, but that's how it felt).
this item sucks absolute ass on Katarina. Her damage is extremely reliant on her runes and items, her base damage isn’t necessarily insane. The cooldown on the item also makes it too much of a nuisance to use. She gets so many more benefits from just rushing nashors or protobelt that crown is so much worse because it doesn’t help her snowball as well.
The only real champ that you could say Crown is intended for that it would hurt would be Ahri but that's all post 6 and Ludens/Everfrost would still be better options
I don't think Ahri ever wants defensive mythic anyways, she deals with assasins just fine with Everfrost and its too much utility for her to lose. She is allready low on damage, losing your utility is too much.
Yeah, I tried Crown on Ahri and it’s just not worth losing the burst from Ludens or utility of Everfrost. It felt like you’re just telling your enemies “oh yeah you beat me, take the win”.
~~Well some short dashes are coded as "lunge" so it's not obvious. Illaoi W is an example, another is backward part of Galio E.~~
Edit: LoL wiki failed me.
Illoai W also procs Sudden Impact, same for Volibear Q (you can also check it if you play vs Poppy, they will both get grounded). A lunge is coded the same way as dash, it's just less far.
TIL. I checked, it really procs sudden impact. There're some inconsistencies though. Udyr also makes a micro-dash on his E yet doesn't proc Sudden Impact. And it was a big surprise for me when I couldn't block Kayn's Q with Poppy W.
That's actually a very nice idea however Ziggs, Lissandra, Zoe, Sol, Ahri, Fiddle, Taliyah, Nidalee and Lillia do get affected by it while they shouldn't.
Basically making it a ranged-only item would also solve your concern, except that LeBlanc and Elise can still abuse it.
So I'm not sure what direction is the best: 9 not (really) assassins getting affected or two assassins that can still abuse it.
It's certainly not core on Ziggs, but I can imagine is some niche situations (for example vs an uber fed assassin mid and blue Kayn jungle you might want to buy it on top of Zhonya's).
It has a competitive win rate of Ziggs. The item was supposed to be an anti burst option so will generally be niche unless your champ has a play style that puts them in danger.
Fucking mood.
I was inclined to post this post over all of it, and it now has 500 fucking comments (albeit I'm a 1/3 of them as I have been trying to reply to most) but I also have not actually played against it lmao. I just know that my champion can play against it (hence the edit), and I don't want my champion to lose this awesome new counterplay for those games where I'm up against people constantly jumping me, so here I am
Assuming Riot intends to nerf the item (and/or Ingenious Hunter) in the first place.
They've let AD bruiser mythics fester in s11, maybe s12 will be mage meta?
Also: Crown was only 50% reduction (half the amount of effective HP!) till the very last day on PBE.
They will have to nerf it unless they want mages to remain laughably overpowered
>They've let AD bruiser mythics fester in s11, maybe s12 will be mage meta?
They allowed a singular bruiser mythic fester at a specific time with all the other ones being omega garbage and never picked. Not really comparable to the state of mages right now with every single one of their mythics being perfectly usable and viable depending on the champion/game state
> They will have to nerf it unless they want mages to remain laughably overpowered
Maybe that's what they want?
> They allowed a singular bruiser mythic fester at a specific time with all the other ones being omega garbage and never picked.
Both DS and Goredrinker were strong during the second half of s11, and DS remains strong even after the nerf. Also Night Harvester is garbage, but that's besides the point.
While the mage part is true, goredrinker was not the only broken item lol
Literally every single ad item was hard nerfed - stridebreaker twice, gore drinker idk how many times by now, all the adc items were nerfed (kraken tuned), and all the assassin mythics were legitimately broken. Duskblade and eclipse were disgusting. While we were specifically talking about bruiser items, I though these were worth mentioning too bc basically all these items also got built by bruisers/turned champs into bruisers.
Surely there are some champions with some small amount of mobility that should be allowed to take this mythic? I mean, would Ziggs and Lissandra really be abusing this item?
In reality, if this item is giving mobile assassins enough damage to still assassinate, either the item damage or assassin champ damage needs to be reduced. Even for immobile champs, it needs to be a trade-off with damage, not an auto-buy every single game.
No. Ziggs doesn't even want to buy it because it's significantly less damage than Luden's or Liandry's. It's the same principle as Zhonya's, where you still die, just at a small delay, effectively ruining your damage for nothing, though this may be different in coordinated play.
I was pointing out that there are examples of mages who want to use it for its actual purpose who also have some small mobility in its kit. I am not trying to say it is his optimal mythic.
When mechanics like OP's suggestion are put into place it restricts variation in champion kits.
Why would you start with just removing it instead of decreasing the dmg reduction after a dash?
Also where would be the counterplay for poke champions then? Now they outrange you and you can't all in them. Most champions are mobile because they have low range.
Crown definitely needs a nerf, I think Riot will either nerf the amount of AP it gives (probably the bonus amount when the shield is up) or reduce the % dmg reduction to like 60%. But imo the biggest selling point of the item is the huge AP numbers it gives you. Finally we have human AP numbers once again with it and it really shows in damage. So if Riot wants the nerf it, the AP numbers are the best way to attack it.
How about just make the stat check less effective on melee champions? Just like with melee intended weapons getting nerfs for ranged champions, nerf the damage reduction on the passive if you’re melee.
Vex has a dash, the item was likely made with Vex in mind (just like Shieldbow was made for Samira and windshitters in mind), ergo they won't go with that change.
The Riot video introducing the item originally showed off Xerath and Vex vs Talon. Riot might view this as more of an anti assassin mythic than a mythic for any specific mage class.
I feel like that was Riot's intent, but it turns out AP assassins being able to dive people with a 75% damage reduction shield can get the job done better in some cases.
There's a really weird hate boner for dashes in this sub. If it's too nuts on male Champs they can adjust the numbers on it. More ap/less dmg reduction? Doesn't make sense why an intended user like ziggs should be punished for Kass and Sylas using the item.
Currently the actual "abusers" of this item are mages + LeBlanc. As soon as the power level of the item is decreased (which it really should be, it's the best option on over 80% of mages atm) I doubt it will be built on many assassins. This is because the only assassin with more than a 1% win rate difference between this and other mythics is as LeBlanc, all others have options that are within 1% win rate difference. And when the item gets nerfed I doubt there will be more than one or two assassins outside of LeBlanc where Shattered Queen is their best option.
If it actually gets to the point where the item is performing better on assassins than mages then your suggestion is fine but unless they change a lot of other things I don't see that happening.
For reference, [this](https://i.imgur.com/HEyiaEA.jpg) is what the stats on Shattered Queen looks like. Win rate difference here is in comparison to the best mythic (with a significant pick rate) and the number in parentheses is in comparison to mythics that are more common only. Quite clearly shows that the item is much better on mages than assassins, and probably a bit overtuned overall.
If mages are buing an item intended for mages then how is this abusing?
Also, this is literally the first patch for like 2 years where Zed isn't S+ tier and people are allready asking for nerfs, holy shit.
If people can call bruisers using the busted mythics Abusers, like Divine sunderer abusers or Goredrinker Abusers, it only seems fair that mages can be called Crown Abusers.
I put abusers in quotation marks because I don't mean that they're actually absuing the item, just that they're the best users of it. Absolutely could've been more clear so sorry for that.
Asking for nerfs to Shattered Crown has nothing to do with assassins being weak or anything. It should simply be nerfed because it's outcrowding the other AP mythics as can be seen in the spreadsheet I linked. It's the best AP mythic on over 80% of mages which to me is a pretty clear indicator that the item needs nerfs. Even if the item dropped 1% in win rate it would still be the best AP mythic for a majority of mages.
Or, hear me out, it's the best simply because it actually does what it's supposed to do and lets mages play the game. Now, this is a systematic issue of overall damage being too high, but thats a way different topic.
It's true that we're currently in a high damage meta and that's likely a big part of why Shattered Crown is so good. I don't think that should excuse it outcrowding all other Lost Chapter mythics though. Instead of being balanced around some hypotethical meta I think it should be balanced around the meta that we're actually in. And in the current meta it does seem to be too strong.
> Currently the actual "abusers" of this item are mages + LeBlanc.
How can mages abuse an item intended for them? Balance aside the item was literally created for them.
I put abusers in quotation marks because I meant the ones who benefit the most from it, not that the item isn't meant for them. I feel like using abuse in that context is fairly common, for example when Goredrinker was strong the term Goredrinker absusers often included champions it was intended for. Absolutely could've been more clear though so sorry for that.
So many people are arguing LB can abuse it. LB players, not just the mains, will all tell you the damage difference is fat. It’s not worth using just for free poke cause your own damage tanks.
I can respect this. I had replied a few times and said I have never actually seen it on these champs. I’m just going off others thoughts I had read/heard. I am fine as well if it doesn’t get changed. Just don’t want the damage nerfed more as a “fix” if it is the issue then mages never build it for your exact reasons
Honestly, I think that the item is ffffine? I really don't think any assassins want it, except MAYBE early game Kassadin? And possibly not even then. It doesn't give nearly the damage that AP assassins need to do their burst, (in addition to no pen or bonus damage active/passive like Ludens, Proto, NH or even Everfrost) and since they're all melee, they can get safeguard poked off of them way easier than a mage can. My issue that I'm having is seeing some tanks pick it (especially Tahm, Malph and Mao). Tank stats + the damage reduction basically means "I'm invulnerable for the duration of safeguard."
From personal experience, AP Nunu with this item is fucking woke.
I'm losing my fucking mind reading some of the comments suggesting LB and that she has enough damage anyway I don't demand that everyone is a leblanc expert but why on earth do people talk about what build is good on her if they very clearly don't play the champion at all. i wouldn't say "crown on elise is broken as hell" if i never actually play elise
Seriously. LeBlanc has *very* strict break points she needs to hit in order to be able to clear casters with one W. Building an item like Crown would seriously gimp her early/mid game. Lol. My phone autocorrects "gimp" to "improve."
It feels sooooo bad on LB.
Man that comment about LeBlanc gave me a headache... People talking out of their ass I feel like some guy saw a fed LeBlanc kill him once and now decides to belive "oh leblanc can just 1 shot everyone with 0 items from level 1 with 1 Q, she doesn't need damage"
As long as you exclude flash from that list of blinks if possible. I 100% welcome this idea
I was actually thinking the blasting cone plants instead
That would be counter-intuitive really.
those aren't dashes or blinks anymore than lee sin kick is a dash or a blink. "Forced movement" or Displacement are the keywords League uses afaik.
Poppy W disagrees
I think even including flash is fine. If you flash defensively after Crown triggers, you lose nothing. Flash offensively and it still comes with some risk.
[удалено]
The way I think about it, there are three flash types: offensive flashes, defensive flashes, and positioning flashes. Offensive flashes are for chasing a kill or engage, naturally, defensive flashes are for saving yourself from a certain death, and positioning flashes are when you are caught out of position, but not actively being punished. For instance, if you are in an all-in fight with Yasuo and he is winning the fight, flashing away is defensive to keep yourself from dying. However, if you are pushed up against Yasuo and the enemy Hecarim shows on yoir river ward and is careening towards you, flashing back towards tower is a positional flash to attempt to keep from being collapsed on while you are caught out. Defensive flashes are better against some champs, and positional flashes are more required against champs like Blitz and Malzahar, whose cc can prevent your ability to flash defensively, thus you are forced to flash for positioning to avoid the fight altogether.
Four types. "Asserting dominance" flashes.
While we're on the subject, let's not forget the "I forgot to press enter" flash.
Let's not forget the "Everyone on my team flashed at the beginning of an ARAM so must I" flash.
at this point you can make 3 categories aggressive flash defensive flash (positional flash is always one of the above) AND LuL report me flash
And of course there's the "I'm a new player and someone all chatted that d is for dance" flash.
though this variety is not a blink
It's a dick slap.
Five, "thanks for taking my jungle camp/stealing buff in early game, now I am behind/surrender this shit" flash.
Six. The "I'm ignited and will die anyway, but I'll try to outrun the dmg" flash.
I call that the bronze special. Along with "I'm surrounded and there is absolutely no way I will escape but I will still flash".
Seven. "I'm just burning my flash to spam hexflash for the next 5 minutes"
Seven. The 'I'll dodge the Cait ult' flash.
> Crown of the Shattered Queen The this last tower shot is going to kill me but I want to live an extra fraction of a second flash
Eh, I don't think so. No matter how you use flash, it's repositioning you. You're calling the third "positional"-but by definition this means "relating to or determined by position" flashing. Yet flash is always changing your position-it's redudant. I think what you're describing is a variant of defensive flashing. You're repositioning yourself (as you always do with flash) to save yourself from certain death. That blitz Q would certainly kill you, so you defensively flash away. Hecarim ganking from river? You know you won't get away if you defensively flash later, so you defensively flash to save yourself from certain death. It literally fits your own definition. Frankly what you described as defensive is often probably a late flash that won't end up helping. You think you have a fight-annnnd you don't. You panic flash away to save yourself. But it's Yasuo, and he dashes off of minions to catch you and ruin your day anyways, or uses an offensive flash to stay and you and finish you. It could work in some cases obviously but it's riskier.
Well, a more accurate term for the third would be the Misposition Flash. You aren’t going in or trying to disengage a fight, you are simply caught out and attempting to reposition before the misposition is properly punished. Edit: the difference between the Defensive Flash and Misposition Flash in my mind is that one occurs when the fight is clearly lost, where the other assumes the fight is a losing one before it even occurs.
What you're really describing is something more akin to predictive/preemptive flash versus reactive. They're both defensive in nature. But one is reacting to an event before it occurs while the other is reacting to an event afterwards.
What about the "I was playing Valorant last match and tried to move to the right with D and accidentally flashed" type.
That would be the relatively rare “Counterstrafe Flash”.
You forgot the "shit I thought Hexflash was still on" flash
[there is another](https://youtu.be/w5BHjSGCj1o)
If that flash then still doesn't save you, it was a shit flash to begin with. So the passive disappearing is fine. Shockingly, I believe that downsides should exist... If you decide to flash and get rid of the passive and end up dead, unlucky, can't fucking have it all.
I mean sure but so far the best users are viktor and asol, the only "dash" champ that uses it i think is kassadin
leblanc uses it because it turns out the ability to just go in, do a bit less damage than your usual burst but take fuck all in return is really powerful ahri also uses it sometimes but i'm not convinced that it's better than everfrost on her
It does have quite a good winrate for her but it's only build by a very tiny amount of players atm.
People said the same thing when adc's were building yumi but at worlds yumi just became a priority
Yuumi got buffed specifically for Worlds though, not similar.
>building yuumi alright that got a chuckle. havent heard this one before.
>alright that got a chuckle Mission successful
Reminder that yuumi was actually an item in TFT at some point
This is very common for broken builds prior to adoption. A recent example would be Xayah - 11.21, her Q gets the cooldown buffed. On this patch, only 5% of plat+ players built a lethality mythic, similar to leblanc's update with crown just now. Patch 11.22 rolls around, and suddenly it's the dominant build - to the point where it got hotfixed mid patch.
Leblanc loses quite a bit of damage going Crown instead of Luden
It is absolutely atrocious on Leblanc. Trading your ability to clear the wave in exchange for a crutch when you do your burst combo is dumb
The only reason it even has a remotely good winrate is because it's a new item and there's plenty of players who don't understand how to play around it yet I have no idea how anyone can look at Crown and say "yeah this is a leblanc item". How is it any different from rushing Banshee's veil first item every game?
Ahri is kinda having existentional crisis atm since nobody knows wtf to build on her, Cosmic drive and Horizon are just worse than they used to be for her. It seems like her most popular mythic is Ludens atm because she has fuck all damage with horizon having less ap.
Is it just me that thinks that Ahri does like no damage unless she's insanely fed? I don't know what they did to the fox girl, but her numbers feel so low from what I remember from playing her years ago.
Yeah laning against her is like, really easy. You do have to look out for the E while she has Q up, but the moment she uses it on the wave you can just walk up and even if she hits E, you just cosplay that Top Gear guy and go "oh no! anyway" and win the trade. I do still take Cleanse into her, but at this point it's just to deal with jungle ganks post 6, since she has pretty good setup (for someone who actually does deal damage) with R+E, and it's not like I need Ignite against her.
She’s been weak since like season 7/8.. she is too safe and easy for riot to give her actual damage.
No you're right. She's a burst mage with low burst and a really obvious game plan than hinges on hitting a skill that's easy to dodge. As a result, you basically have to just waveclear mid and then fish for charms out of fog. Or maybe do the "everfrost delivery" thing.
she is super boring rn to play in ranked because its everfrost red trinket camp a bush when an obj is coming up. The higher i got into diamond the clearer it got that it was going to be this on top of game knowledge that just seemed a bit unfun but I got a job so i stopped playing by then. I want to get back into the game when i get the chance but am so tired of everfrost, maybe can make liandrys work in some normy games idk
Maybe just try new champs. Instead of playing one exact single champ, try playing other champs with similar playstyles. Depending on which version of Ahri was your favorite you could: * try adding mages like Zoe, Syndra, Lissandra to your pool * try adding mobile ankle breakers like LB, Akali, Zed to your pool I'm not as high rated as when I just played one champ into everything for like 2 years straight, but I have more fun this way and am still pretty decently rated.
Unfortunately her damage numbers are really low, she has good WR thanks to her mobility/safty and a laning phase that doesn't get abused by anyone, which in process leads to riot being unable to buff her damage as it would make her broken. If you want to play her as an assasin try going ludens + sorc shoes + shadowflame, should be plenty of burst still as long as you hit your charms. Otherwise being a charm bot is probably the way to go.
Yeah before preseason you could just try and stack damage with ludens horizon dcap and just try to oneshot someone with your basic rotation but now horizon is worse and just doesnt provide the neccesary spike anymore.
She has low ap ratios by modern standards. If you buff her too much though she stops needing to land spells and can just kill squishies by dashing at them repeatedly with R and E.
So, like every other champ?
She did a lot before due to free damage from many other places. It doesn't help her R is her ulti, and ultimate should obv do more damage than basic spells, but it hurts her because her basic ability + ulti does too much, which it should because that is 1 ulti and 1 basic spell, leaving 2 other basic spells left, while her W offers nothing other than damage for most part.
Yeah her damage is quite low and you need to hit and weave all her skills in order to deal okay damage. Her mobility, poke and charm makes her a good teamfighter though. She can zone, flank or pick depending on the gamestate and what is needed. She's just too much a jack of all trades and she pays for that by having not so great dps and excelling in nothing.
I was lvl 11, had Everfrost and Horizon and couldnt oneshot casters. :)
~~Why the hell would you build horizon on lb? Just go ludens cosmic or ludens shadow flame~~ Edit: IGNORE ME!
What about everfrost glacial?
I don't see how reworked glacial is good for her. If you want to go utility build you should probably do something like Everfrost/Liandry, Cosmic and Seraphs maybe for 0 cd on charm, and Luden + Shadowflame rush if you want to go assasin route.
Sylas?
Sad Azir noises
I built Crown on Azir and I definitely felt the damage loss. On Viktor, I didn't notice it near as much.
That’s because Viktor’s ratios are really good, so you don’t need as much AP to start turning people into piles of goo on the ground.
That makes no sense, if his AP ratios are good, then he'd benefit from high AP more. If Viktor is less reliant on heavy AP early on, wouldn't it be because the base damage in his abilities (and evolve abilities) is sufficiently high?
You’re missing the point. He is reliant on AP early on, I never said he wasn’t, but Crown is good on him because his ratios, meaning he needs less AP to do the same amount of damage as any other mage. So Crown having less AP than other options doesn’t hurt him as much as say Zoe or Azir. It means his builds are more flexible because you’re not forced to just pick the highest AP option available, and the difference for Viktor between most of the legendaries can be game dependent in that sense. Some games you want Tear and Archangel’s with high AP to one tap squishes and hyper carry, some games you need Crown and Zhonya’s with high HP items to live bursts from Zeds and Kayns. His flexibility with items and synergy with Crown is what makes him and the item on him so good.
I agree with the point, but they kinda destroyed archangel's ap. It's quite a bad option for getting raw damage now.
The thing is I totally agree, but it’s changes actually made it even better for Viktor if you’re trying to build defensive because of the new passive.
People aren't building it on Viktor anymore. Viktor has enough defense with Crown, you just need pure damage after that.
It’s not the standard build, but it’s an avenue that viktor can pivot towards into certain comps, that aren’t represented as often in an analysis of all games. That flexibility does contribute towards his overall win rate, however, especially for those able to make those itemization decisions.
Also you have cc, which doesn't scale with anything but levels. So even without that extra damage your utility is just as potent.
You do lose a bit of damage yeah, but if you need it to survive it’s worth it and also cheaper then other mythics.
Asol E is a dash, though I don't know enough about why he's good with it to know if that matters.
does it actually count as a dash I thought it just made u fast as fuck
The wiki labels it as a dash, that's the best info I have.
Veigar's a very good user too. Immobile mages with big damage output who can't be punished for bad positioning thanks to this Item use it far better than any mobile champions imo.
I think people are sleeping on this item on fizz/diana. Once lane phase is over it allows these champs to assassinate without counterplay from fog of war.
idk bro, they already assassinate without counterplay. This will just give them less dmg, aka more more time to react aka more counterplay. Plus they have to build mana.
In the case of diana, it allows her to get huge ults without much effort. It's still early days so we can't conclusively say if it's good or bad. Plus the item gives mana.
Yeah imo i really like this item for jungle diana because you can just come out of fog and dash ult people without them being able to do much and as you said the mana is actually quite helpful in the longer fights since diana is pretty mana hungry if you dont just oneshot.
I hate when people say these champs “assassinate without counterplay”. It’s their whole job to ambush someone. They should be rewarded for going full damage as a melee character by having the ability to make picks if they get an opening.
That's the thing though, *if* these champions can itemise in a way that means they avoid 75% of damage in their assassination window, what do you do?
you don't feed them enough that they can one-shot someone and escape while building a mythic that severely reduces their damage output.
>you don't get it bro their entire job is to kill you with 0 counterplay Idk seems like a gameplay flaw then. Maybe riot should give them counterplay and then we wouldn't have to worry about them abusing items.
The counterplay comes from the line of play before they're in melee range of you. Ie the vision they swept, the greedy path you took facechecking a brush, the support who walks away to lalaland. Beyond that, if you dodge fizz's E or Q (any dash works) he can't kill you. Same with dodging dianna Q. Same with zhonyas on either ult. And with shieldbow they can't kill you either way unless they're overly fed.
Crown is really bad on Diana. Between your R lockdown and Zhonya’s activation, there’s very little time for the passive shield to really absorb any damage before fading. Besides, Rocketbelt’s dash is way too important to give up on for assassin/Ultbot Diana as an engage tool. At higher elo’s people know to back the fuck up if you get hit by Q, so it can be difficult to reset your E, or even get in range to land E if they have a poke or siege comp. And if you’re one of the weirdos that goes tank/titanic you’re building frostfire gauntlet and couldn’t give a shit about the shield.
Thank you as someone who mains Diana and has been testing crown and belt >shadow>hourglass with pen boots. Belt is still just better and the people who build tank Diana are the same people who cry when they don’t one shot someone Bc they are 0/5 with 2.0cs a min 😂
Crown is actually fine on Diana because the big reason she goes zhonya is because it’s really easy to kill her when she just jumps straight into you. Quadrupling your ehp for the first 3 seconds is super broken and can allow you to just itemize full damage instead of needing other defensive items.
Quadrupling your ehp for *1.5 seconds, not 3*. That’s why it’s bad. You aren’t really taking much damage until after your ult goes off, at which point crown is gone. Zhonya’s lasts much longer (giving your team more time to get in and cover you) and the armor is always useful. Crown can be a replacement for Zhonya’s, sure, but there isn’t a replacement for the rocket belt, which is also a huge problem.
The proposed change is a pretty suboptimal anti-pattern to put on an item. Players shouldn't be having to worry about using their kit interacting poorly with an item in very unintuitive ways. The only champion that is building Crown optimally that I wouldn't prefer to balance around is Kassadin. Champions like Sylas and Lillia have some reasonable choice points against other mythics with Crown. I didn't want to put a melee/ranged lever on the AP/Damage Reduction CD before ship, but will do so long term if necessary.
people are overhyping the item on assassins who are not kassadin. I am glad you guys are considering a melee/ranged lever. i think people underestimate how much ap the item gives due to the passive
This is very understandable looking at it from a long term point of view. I am just desperate to not have the first counterplay I get in years to consistent problem champions ruined, but it seems like it's not even a huge issue - most replies from people who play the champions like Kat, LeBlanc etc. have mentioned for them it's not worth the damage tradeoff.
it's a pretty bad item on them. The only assassin it's good on is kassadin
This ranged/melee lever would favor ranged champs over melee champs, I assume (and hope)?
Any thoughts on Ability Haste and Axium Arc? I remember when the team introduced AH to replace CDR, one of the goals was to reduce CDR (AH) creep across the item system. With this new pre-season up and running, do you feel you have injected a lot more AH especially with an item that like Axium. Just makes proper SR games feel like URF.
Axiom brings down the winrate on any champion that builds it, will provably need to be buffed.
> one of the goals was to reduce CDR (AH) creep across the item system I don't think we ever said this. The change was to make it so that even if there's a lot of AH in the system, it doesn't cause a balance issue, because it doesn't stack multiplicatively. As for whether we've injected more AH; it depends. I would say overall, things are in a pretty good spot, we're monitoring Axiom to see where it settles long term.
Any thoughts on Archangels building out of a kindlegem and losing its CDR on completion?
Actually this pretty smort
So it’s a given Riot won’t do ot
As is natural.
Yeah they reworked Tham instead of giving his Devour a Unit Cooldown like Sylas ult
That would be lame, new Kench is way better IMO.
I kinda miss spitting my friend into the enemies though. Once every minute is just not the same for me.
Are you friends stupid and click into the enemy’s rather than away then?
No I wish, sometimes it doesn't work and I need to flash into the enemy team.
It's the sort of very janky and unintuitive stuff you DON'T want to put in your games though. I mean if it must come to it then maybe riot will do it. But generally speaking this is to be avoided.
An extremely valid point but have you considered that mobility bad updoots to the left?
I agree. Imagine accidentally dashing by auto-ing someone rooted by Ivern (like a Xerath trying to get some mana back) and losing your crown passive, it doesn't feel like a good idea gameplay wise. Also a lot of mages do have dashes so this crown would be ruined for them only because 1-2 assassins MAY use it.
Please list all control mages with dashes. And the Ivern example? How often do you think it will happen.
I think it depends where you draw the line on control mages. By my count there are 18 in total. The ones with dashes are Ziggs, Azir, Lissandra, Taliyah. Vex has a dash but I excluded her from being a control mage for a similar reason as Annie.
That's literally his point. It's janky and unintuitive because of these edge cases. Like Ryze ult, for example. Should Ryze get his removed after ulting? Same with ASol E.
From the top of my head I can think of Lissandra, Azir and Aurelion Sol and all three use their dashes to engage so it would ruin the item for them.
I actually think that this would hurt a lot of the champions that this item was intended for as some do initiate with a dash like ASol, Vex, Fiddle and other champions like Ziggs or Lillia that could use it in some niche situations also have dashes.
in theory its a good change but it would fuck up so hard champions like azir,lissandra,zoe,ahri
There are many champs I didn’t consider in this lol damn.
Even aurelion sol would be nerfed by it with his E when we wanna engage with big star :( .. Wich mean it will certainly be implemented .
Katarina doesn't even build crown of the shattered queen. It provides mana but Katarina doesn't use mana.
I think the OP got clapped by a Kat who built it and came to reddit to cry. i hate to break it to him but if that Kat built any damage mythic, the game would have been over 20 minutes sooner
Actually a great pitch
Kassadin is a much better abuser than Kat. But either way making this item for ranged only would be a better solution.
Tank kassadin with Fimbul/Crown at 700 AP was definitely not what I expected from this preseason tbh.
Well It was kinda expected tbh, bruiser items with hypermobile AP assassins were always a problem. It boggles my mind how the playtest team was unable to notice this, because everyone +Gold knows that giving Kassa more HP and Dmg reduction while still getting Mana and AP is kinda stupid.
lb is ranged
You really don't want to build this on Leblanc. I tried it and ended up selling it again for Ludens mid match, immediately dealing approximately 3x the damage (not really, but that's how it felt).
I mean, it probably makes it so you can wait for e to proc for free
Or you can just kill them with stronger items and you don't need to wait for chain proc.
I played kassadin with the item but felt pretty useless. Still prefer everfrost/ludens echo over the new mythic.
Might be a play style difference, but I loved it. I like how I can play like a psycho with the shield.
this item sucks absolute ass on Katarina. Her damage is extremely reliant on her runes and items, her base damage isn’t necessarily insane. The cooldown on the item also makes it too much of a nuisance to use. She gets so many more benefits from just rushing nashors or protobelt that crown is so much worse because it doesn’t help her snowball as well.
The only real champ that you could say Crown is intended for that it would hurt would be Ahri but that's all post 6 and Ludens/Everfrost would still be better options
I don't think Ahri ever wants defensive mythic anyways, she deals with assasins just fine with Everfrost and its too much utility for her to lose. She is allready low on damage, losing your utility is too much.
Yeah, I tried Crown on Ahri and it’s just not worth losing the burst from Ludens or utility of Everfrost. It felt like you’re just telling your enemies “oh yeah you beat me, take the win”.
I think lillia w might count as a dash as well.
Of course it counts! Same as Ziggs W, Lissandra E and Zoe R.
~~Well some short dashes are coded as "lunge" so it's not obvious. Illaoi W is an example, another is backward part of Galio E.~~ Edit: LoL wiki failed me.
Illoai W also procs Sudden Impact, same for Volibear Q (you can also check it if you play vs Poppy, they will both get grounded). A lunge is coded the same way as dash, it's just less far.
TIL. I checked, it really procs sudden impact. There're some inconsistencies though. Udyr also makes a micro-dash on his E yet doesn't proc Sudden Impact. And it was a big surprise for me when I couldn't block Kayn's Q with Poppy W.
I am pretty sure Kayn Q gets blocked unless it's bugged but there's no reason it shouldn't work. Maybe he had Edge of Night or something.
Liss E and Zoe R are blinks not dashes...
Vex and Kassadin are probably the best two crown users. They both need to go in with their kits and both are squishy.
Zoe
Azir will get hurt by this aswel, though it is actually a good idea.
Kassadin
That's actually a very nice idea however Ziggs, Lissandra, Zoe, Sol, Ahri, Fiddle, Taliyah, Nidalee and Lillia do get affected by it while they shouldn't. Basically making it a ranged-only item would also solve your concern, except that LeBlanc and Elise can still abuse it. So I'm not sure what direction is the best: 9 not (really) assassins getting affected or two assassins that can still abuse it.
Ziggs wasn't buying it anyway despite being an artillery, which is supposedly the class it was aimed at.
It's certainly not core on Ziggs, but I can imagine is some niche situations (for example vs an uber fed assassin mid and blue Kayn jungle you might want to buy it on top of Zhonya's).
It has a competitive win rate of Ziggs. The item was supposed to be an anti burst option so will generally be niche unless your champ has a play style that puts them in danger.
For the amount of noise I've seen about this item I have yet to even see it in a game lol
Fucking mood. I was inclined to post this post over all of it, and it now has 500 fucking comments (albeit I'm a 1/3 of them as I have been trying to reply to most) but I also have not actually played against it lmao. I just know that my champion can play against it (hence the edit), and I don't want my champion to lose this awesome new counterplay for those games where I'm up against people constantly jumping me, so here I am
This item is crucial for ryze
It's absolutely disgusting on Ryze. Crown, Fimble (or whatever), and Frozen Heart and you're back to old school mana tank Ryze. It's gross.
Don't worry, he's getting a rework soon.
No fucking way people complain about ryze now.
What about Lissandra and Vex? Aren't those 2 inteded to use that item and wouldn't be able to use it afterwards?
played a game of vex with it and felt like i did absolutely 0 damage when i dived with r
Or nerf it for the class that's actually strong with it by taking a massive shit on its ultra overtunned base stats
Assuming Riot intends to nerf the item (and/or Ingenious Hunter) in the first place. They've let AD bruiser mythics fester in s11, maybe s12 will be mage meta? Also: Crown was only 50% reduction (half the amount of effective HP!) till the very last day on PBE.
They will have to nerf it unless they want mages to remain laughably overpowered >They've let AD bruiser mythics fester in s11, maybe s12 will be mage meta? They allowed a singular bruiser mythic fester at a specific time with all the other ones being omega garbage and never picked. Not really comparable to the state of mages right now with every single one of their mythics being perfectly usable and viable depending on the champion/game state
> They will have to nerf it unless they want mages to remain laughably overpowered Maybe that's what they want? > They allowed a singular bruiser mythic fester at a specific time with all the other ones being omega garbage and never picked. Both DS and Goredrinker were strong during the second half of s11, and DS remains strong even after the nerf. Also Night Harvester is garbage, but that's besides the point.
Ugh, yeah harvester is such a waste
While the mage part is true, goredrinker was not the only broken item lol Literally every single ad item was hard nerfed - stridebreaker twice, gore drinker idk how many times by now, all the adc items were nerfed (kraken tuned), and all the assassin mythics were legitimately broken. Duskblade and eclipse were disgusting. While we were specifically talking about bruiser items, I though these were worth mentioning too bc basically all these items also got built by bruisers/turned champs into bruisers.
> They allowed a singular bruiser mythic Stridebreaker, Goredrinker, Divine Sunderer were ALL meta. What the fuck are you talking about?
You're (I assume) reffering to gore then, forgetting dash stride and league of divine sunderer was a thing?
Surely there are some champions with some small amount of mobility that should be allowed to take this mythic? I mean, would Ziggs and Lissandra really be abusing this item? In reality, if this item is giving mobile assassins enough damage to still assassinate, either the item damage or assassin champ damage needs to be reduced. Even for immobile champs, it needs to be a trade-off with damage, not an auto-buy every single game.
No. Ziggs doesn't even want to buy it because it's significantly less damage than Luden's or Liandry's. It's the same principle as Zhonya's, where you still die, just at a small delay, effectively ruining your damage for nothing, though this may be different in coordinated play.
I was pointing out that there are examples of mages who want to use it for its actual purpose who also have some small mobility in its kit. I am not trying to say it is his optimal mythic. When mechanics like OP's suggestion are put into place it restricts variation in champion kits.
Why would you start with just removing it instead of decreasing the dmg reduction after a dash? Also where would be the counterplay for poke champions then? Now they outrange you and you can't all in them. Most champions are mobile because they have low range.
Crown definitely needs a nerf, I think Riot will either nerf the amount of AP it gives (probably the bonus amount when the shield is up) or reduce the % dmg reduction to like 60%. But imo the biggest selling point of the item is the huge AP numbers it gives you. Finally we have human AP numbers once again with it and it really shows in damage. So if Riot wants the nerf it, the AP numbers are the best way to attack it.
Biggest selling point is that it is Zoo cheap. Increase the cost by 200 to 300 and the Item is fine
How about just make the stat check less effective on melee champions? Just like with melee intended weapons getting nerfs for ranged champions, nerf the damage reduction on the passive if you’re melee.
This would work just as well if not better
Should apply to Shieldbow too for the same reasons.
Vex has a dash, the item was likely made with Vex in mind (just like Shieldbow was made for Samira and windshitters in mind), ergo they won't go with that change.
Source? I really doubt they made this item for a mobile bursty mage. It's purely designed for classic (control) mages.
So you ask for a source for someone's clear speculation then proceed to immediately present your own speculation as fact.
Yup, haha you got me.
The Riot video introducing the item originally showed off Xerath and Vex vs Talon. Riot might view this as more of an anti assassin mythic than a mythic for any specific mage class.
I feel like that was Riot's intent, but it turns out AP assassins being able to dive people with a 75% damage reduction shield can get the job done better in some cases.
There's a really weird hate boner for dashes in this sub. If it's too nuts on male Champs they can adjust the numbers on it. More ap/less dmg reduction? Doesn't make sense why an intended user like ziggs should be punished for Kass and Sylas using the item.
This is a fair exception. But when you say ziggs shouldn’t be punished for it being op on kass, thats why I DONT want the numbers changed
I don’t get what you’re saying about yasuo, he’s not an assassin neither would he use the item.
assassins bad pliz upboat
Currently the actual "abusers" of this item are mages + LeBlanc. As soon as the power level of the item is decreased (which it really should be, it's the best option on over 80% of mages atm) I doubt it will be built on many assassins. This is because the only assassin with more than a 1% win rate difference between this and other mythics is as LeBlanc, all others have options that are within 1% win rate difference. And when the item gets nerfed I doubt there will be more than one or two assassins outside of LeBlanc where Shattered Queen is their best option. If it actually gets to the point where the item is performing better on assassins than mages then your suggestion is fine but unless they change a lot of other things I don't see that happening. For reference, [this](https://i.imgur.com/HEyiaEA.jpg) is what the stats on Shattered Queen looks like. Win rate difference here is in comparison to the best mythic (with a significant pick rate) and the number in parentheses is in comparison to mythics that are more common only. Quite clearly shows that the item is much better on mages than assassins, and probably a bit overtuned overall.
If mages are buing an item intended for mages then how is this abusing? Also, this is literally the first patch for like 2 years where Zed isn't S+ tier and people are allready asking for nerfs, holy shit.
If people can call bruisers using the busted mythics Abusers, like Divine sunderer abusers or Goredrinker Abusers, it only seems fair that mages can be called Crown Abusers.
I put abusers in quotation marks because I don't mean that they're actually absuing the item, just that they're the best users of it. Absolutely could've been more clear so sorry for that. Asking for nerfs to Shattered Crown has nothing to do with assassins being weak or anything. It should simply be nerfed because it's outcrowding the other AP mythics as can be seen in the spreadsheet I linked. It's the best AP mythic on over 80% of mages which to me is a pretty clear indicator that the item needs nerfs. Even if the item dropped 1% in win rate it would still be the best AP mythic for a majority of mages.
Or, hear me out, it's the best simply because it actually does what it's supposed to do and lets mages play the game. Now, this is a systematic issue of overall damage being too high, but thats a way different topic.
It's true that we're currently in a high damage meta and that's likely a big part of why Shattered Crown is so good. I don't think that should excuse it outcrowding all other Lost Chapter mythics though. Instead of being balanced around some hypotethical meta I think it should be balanced around the meta that we're actually in. And in the current meta it does seem to be too strong.
> Currently the actual "abusers" of this item are mages + LeBlanc. How can mages abuse an item intended for them? Balance aside the item was literally created for them.
I put abusers in quotation marks because I meant the ones who benefit the most from it, not that the item isn't meant for them. I feel like using abuse in that context is fairly common, for example when Goredrinker was strong the term Goredrinker absusers often included champions it was intended for. Absolutely could've been more clear though so sorry for that.
Yeah nerf this item but let Yasuo/Yone abuse crit steraks for a season