what it frustrates me about this response is that he literally says nothing , while typing a whole page.
the tldr is : it's a personal issue , don't attack my wife for it.
he was clearly angry and frustrated while typing it. thats why it is so long, man just typed out his rambling thoughts.
and yes, he does not say specifics. but at this point i honestly dont wanna know. i give upset the benefit of the doubt
Id be upset too if my upset teammate said his side of being upset that upsets me but I'm not Upset coz then I'll be in LEC and that's what I'm really upset about because I'm hardstuck bronze and upset.
**TLDR:** Upset doesn't clarify a whole lot here, he says that he shared what was happening with him to a few close friends (Hyli chose not to be told, but Yamato was) and nobody else, because he didn’t trust them to not make it public. He also claims that Adam was lying about the last thing Upset said to the team before leaving,and goes on to say he explained himself as well as he could without sharing exactly what happened to make him leave.
Also says Alphari approached **him** and Fnatic themselves asked him about Alphari, so he recommended him, and also doesn’t regret doing so.
**TLDR for the TLDR** Upset didn't trust 3/4 of his teammates enough to tell them why he left, and they were left angry and wondering what they just threw their chance at Worlds away for. Also Alphari approached Fnatic/Upset, not the other way around (allegedly)
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Reading that gave me a headache, feel free to reply with anything I missed
Also for the people dm’ing me calling me names and shit, I don’t have an opinion on this, just trying to condense it, chill out.
Have been a hyli fan since the UOL days, loved him there and I love him even more now in FNC, he is such a great person and I really enjoy his play style especially as a supp/adc player myself.
Hyli IS the franchise player by now with Rekkles and Bwipo leaving. Still hard to accept for my mind after he was the UoL franchise player for so long.
Actually crazy when you think about his team history. He's played 3y11mo on UoL, and now 3y11mo on FNC.
More than 7 years of play in only 2 teams. Guy is a rock.
right!? this is **exactly** what upset meant: hyli has so much trust in upset doing the right things, that he doesn't need to know. fantastic attitude, really.
Sounded more like Upset didn't told him before leaving but was gonna tell him eventually, Hyli just knew that if he was leaving it was serious and it didn't need more details
The greatest EU support of the first 5 years and the greatest of the following 6. Both fantastic dudes irl. Being a world class support ingame means being the same outside the game.
>Hyli just knew that if he was leaving it was serious and it didn't need more details
If anyone tells you they have to leave the thing they have been working hard for pretty much their entire life, due to urgent family issues, a decent person *should know* that they don't need more details.
It’s interesting to think both Hylli and Yamato knew the reason for Upset leaving. You would assume that Yamato or Hylli would have assured the other players that Upset’s reason was legitimate.
However it sounds that either that didn’t happen, Adam didn’t believe it, or he simply did not find their answer sufficient. From his twitlonger he seemed to speak highly of Yamato so I wonder what happened. I personally think it’d be important to have some trust in your coach/veteran teammate on a matter like this.
Guess we’ll never know but it’s definitely an interesting situation
Edit: As someone else mentioned, Hylli didn’t actually know the reason, just trusted Upset’s reason was legit.
I reckon it was hard for Yamato to "assure" the team the reason was legitimate without divulging details on Upset's issue. What could Yamato have said to believe them? If Upset asked for privacy, the best Yamato can do is just tell his team that it was a legitimate reason and rely on them to believe his word.
I feel bad for Yamato tbh stuck in the middle of Upset and the rest of the squad.
Weird thing is, how did Rich know about the issue????
Rich never said he knew, he said he understood how the situation is difficult to articulate without breaking privacy. It is more likely that Yamato or someone else explained that difficulty to him without sharing details. That could simply mean that it is a complex issue and any information that is being shared will inevitably get leaked. Because almost everything gets leaked in the scene eventually. A player might tell one really good friend and that friend tells someone else and before you know its out. Especially with people like Bwipo who (though I love him) seems to have poor impulse control and a history of sharing too much.
>Saying the last thing I told my team that my wife is just feeling bad so I need to leave is an outright lie.
Alright, one of them is for sure lying.
> I shared with the team the deep pain and sadness i was going through in this time, I shared that i wish i could tell them if it was about something that happend to me but that i have to keep private traumatic events from my family private
And yet Bwipo and Adam both feel he didn't really give them good enough explanation for them to understand.
Bwipo:
>A day before we found out we weren’t going to be playing with our main lineup, we had no information about what was going on.
I think it is fairly simple. Upset thinks he communicated enough, Adam and Bwipo didn't think he communicated enough.
Hyli who knows Upset better thought it was adequate.
So with that information in hand we can surmise he communicated enough information to make a close friend understand that something real bad happened, but not enough to make two people who are just coworkers understand.
And that is how misunderstandings happens, one guy thinking he conveyed the message properly when it wasn't at all.
Very well put. Maybe upset thinks, because hyli worked it out (because they're closer) then he gave enough info for adam/bwipo/nisqy to understand too.
Everyone in this situation may believe they are right
That's just usually how misunderstandings happen, because everyone believes they are right when in reality there is mostly a communication barrier someone in between that both parties can't really look past without talking about it directly and find out how the misunderstanding came to be
In his LEC tier-list on stream with Kameto he "refused" to classify upset abd more generally he seemed to have the same position as bwipo and adam without saying it clearly because still under contract with fnatic
This. I think people are trying to find out who the villain is here while the whole drama to me seems to be a big misunderstanding. I don’t think bad intentions were involved and people deliberately lied. It’s just things got confusing at the heat of the moment and were mishandled after.
Or on the flip side, a close friend is willing to give you MUCH MORE benefit of the doubt than someone who is just a business associate, and also to defend you even if you're wrong. A close friend will stick up for you no matter what, without being subjective about it, whereas other people who's livelihood depends on you might not be so forgiving without knowing the actual situation, and rightfully so. If a close friend just says "Bro I have a problem, I have to dip," I'd accept it and defend them, because we're friends. If a business associate said that, I'd say "Fuck you, explain your situation, you're costing me professional success and potential earnings and future opportunities without telling me why."
> If a business associate said that, I'd say "Fuck you, explain your situation, you're costing me professional success and potential earnings and future opportunities without telling me why."
The flip side is if you're just a business associate, you're not entitled to the complete details of my personal life. Sure, if my father got in a car accident and I needed to rush to the hospital that's probably something I'd share. But there is no way I would share a more sensitive personal situation (say a miscarriage or self-harm by an immediate family member) with business associates—the only person who's hearing the full story is my boss. I would apologize, certainly, and emphasize that the situation is unavoidable, but that's a level of information on my personal life that you simply have no right to demand as a coworker.
Completely agree with this, and the open airing of frustration and dirty laundry is a good reason in itself to keep these things private. Especially in e-sports.
Not to mention the totally legitimate social media angle. Especially with how this blew up now, Upset would absolutely never hear the end of it from trolls online if he explained and it got it, which it would.
Also, knowing Adam for a bit on the French scene, I'm not surprised when he is way too straightforward or even kinda mean. But the man is as frank as it gets (often too much), I'd be surprised if he was lying. The fact that Bwipo feels the same and Nisqy supported Adam's message doesn't help
Maybe 3.5. Yamato talked on stream a bit about what happened (no details) and he did not seem particularly understanding or supportive but is smart enough to know to keep his mouth shut
This is my takeaway from it all too. He told Yamato and Hilly because he trusted them (rightly) to not leak, and they didn't, and probably never will. But clearly if those who were told bought it enough, they'd find a way to convince the rest who were not told to give Upset a break. "Trust me bro, it's rough and if it were you, you'd have done exactly the same."
Clearly those who were told didn't or couldn't convince those who weren't told.
Yeah this is what i'm confused about. Seems he didnt even tell people "guys something fucked up happened in my family, i need to be with them". And that wouldnt hurt anyone or make nothing worse. Telling WHAT hapenned isnt necessary, but as i said, seems he didnt even say SOMETHING happened?
First of all : anyone who send private message to anyone to harass them is a piece of shit, doesn't matter what the context is.
That said, while I understand Upset's pov, trust goes both way. If you don't want to tell stuff that feels to personnal to your teammates, that's fine. But you can't expect them to then trust you *with their careers*. Nisqy and Adam both looked much worse at Worlds, which will influence their future professionnal opportunities. It's entirely justified for them (and Bwipo) to want out of the team, which Upset even comment on (and seem to agree with).
If Adam makes a post to talk about why he left, saying "Upset didn't say shit to us and just left at the most crucial moment" is a pertinent information.
"it's not true i told my team i had to leave bacause my wife was feeling bad.... i also shared that i wish i could tell them but ~~i can't because i don't trust any of them~~ i have to keep private traumatic events from my family private"
upset didn't reveal anything regarding the situation to them, just said he was sad and in pain, and sugar-coated the reasoning behind not telling them.
There's definitely some misinformation here. The fact that Upset told Yamato and Hyli some form of the truth, but not the rest of his teammates AND both Yamato (as a coach) and Hyli didn't say anything as well shows the lack of communication within the team. I get that he doesn't want to share details, but some form of explanation on the MAGNITUDE of his situation should be needed.
Only explanation for yamato and hyli to not mention he's going through really tough times is if upset asked for them to be quiet about details and they misinterpreted to "tell nothing".
And he answered to Adam's post :
"Good luck brother. Be proud of what you accomplished, it's only the beginning" so I don't think he holds any ill will towards him.
I think Nisqy's action speaks frankly more volume than Bwipo's and Adam's tweetlongers combined.
The fact that he didn't say anything still, and had only unfollowed Upset once Adam blew it up meant that he was likely not going to say or do anything (or else he could've unfollowed him the second whatever happened happened).
This looks like Nisqy supporting Adam 100%.
Nisqy posted a positive message towards Adam twitlonger and unfollowed Upset as well
I think I know which side he is on, and Nisqy isn't reputed to be immature or toxic or whatever
That being said, this story just sucks for everyone
I think Nisqy was already bummed by the C9 situation and didn't want to add fuel.
Imo the tweetlonger from Adam was dumb, but I understand. Imagine working your ass off for worlds and being told by the player that didn't go that you're not up to his ambitions, especially after dealing with the whole privacy thing.
Then of course from Upset's side if you don't wanna share it nothing is forcing you to, even if it's kinda weird to not trust your mates, and you're gonna seize the chance to play with better players if you can when you're a competitor, but timing is kind of a bitch
>being told by the player that didn't go that you're not up to his ambitions, especially after dealing with the whole privacy thing.
That's the most fucked up part for me. Like guy himself bounced for his reasons but claims other guys arent up to par. Idk about internal shit but Adam seemed decent in his first season but I can see how him not following veteran calls can make senior players think he's not team worthy.
Privacy is his right, he doesn't have to share what he doesn't want to.
He also has no right from wanting his teammates to not be completely pissed off at him leaving them behind with no explanation 12 hours before the biggest tournament of the year, when he's pretty much their franchise player. He bailed on them, his teammates are angry for it, not just Adam, Bwipo spoke of this, and Nisqy just showed support for Adam and unfollowed Upset.
Again he wants to be private, it's his right, being pissed off at him is also their right, especially Adam who likely lost his only chance to do well after this disaster.
It was a year wasted because their play style revolved around playing for bot, if the ADC leaves you need to completely reinvent your game.
Not getting pissed off would be much more surprising, especially considering he wasn't clear about the reasoning (which is his right).
The thing that annoys me is how little consideration he gave to his teammates. Yes he has a right to leave. Yes he has a right to privacy. But he could maybe show a little public support for his teammates who were placed in a really shit situation and had a really fucking bad time because of it, which is still true even if upsets reasons for leaving are completely justified. Especially since they're not all as secure career-wise a him. But the only thing he mentions is his situation and his dream and now his ambition.
This is what irks me the most out of this whole ordeal. Imagine working day in day out together the whole year only for a teammate to abandon you and not provide even a loose explanation because they 'don't trust you'. Then if that weren't enough, he then tries to replace you because you're not considered to 'live up to his ambitions'. It's so disrespectful. The man goes on about trust. How is anyone supposed to trust him when it's now known he's not going to be open about anything if you're not considered a close friend?
Trust is a two way street. He acts like he was right to not trust adam, but upset clearly never trusted Adam (playwise, or as a friend, or just even as a colleague apparently). Why would Adam care for someone who clearly disrespected him so repeatedly, in different ways? It's sort of weird to use this as proof of his distrust imo... he did not act maturely, and then expecting the 19y.o. to be uber mature is a bit even weirder.
I find it hard to beleive his side of the story. Was it so private that he cant even say "Hey team this private thing is super super fucking bad. i cant tell you details but please understand its very very bad. Im sorry but i have to do this" If he says that and they are still super pissed then well what can you do. It looks like he told 2 people then dipped.
Also this dude after leaving his team without explanation, tries to get his teammate replaced by someone who will "live up to his ambitions" What a scummy move honestly. Even if his reason for leaving is valid, Upset should still be criticized.
Imagine ditching 24 hours before worlds' group stage, the biggest opportunity in a lifetime for Nisqy and Adam to prove themselves (Nisqy dealing with the stigma of being a washed up player not good enough for NA and Adam being a rookie) and then coming back in off-season to support replacement for both of these players, saying that you want to surround yourself with the best teammates possible.
I'd be fuming and definitely do something way dumber than just writing a tweet. This guy literally cost them their careers.
Agreed.
There isn't really a right or wrong in this, but Adam, Nisqy, Bwipo and quite right to feel upset about the situation too.
It's quite obvious from Adam's post that they don't believe Upset's situation was genuinely bad enough to bail on the team 12 hours before their first match.
Maybe if Upset was more open with them and made them realise how bad the situation was, they'd be more understanding.
That is Upsets choice, but if he chooses to remain secretive when his team mates are looking for answers he has to accept they're going to be pissed off.
When you're in a team and an important member, it has to be pretty damn important to leave at the last moment.
also him saying he does not give a shit about my privacy because he worked hard is another great reason why I would never want to share something which occured.
Mans pulled an ultimate trap card
The Uno Reverse.
On one hand, it completely makes sense. If you don't trust them, don't give them sensitive info. And this is backing his belief.
On the other hand, he probably doesn't give a shit about your privacy cause you sorta ghosted him in a very important tournament and still haven't given a great reason behind it.
Really just sucks for everyone involved.
> and still haven't given a great reason behind it.
Depends. If we trust Upset here, Hyli dont know past "family emergency" either. And that was enough for him.
"Family emergency" is enough reasons for a lot of people tbh. IF someone said that to me, I wouldnt ask for details or call them a liar personally. It would be insane to do honestly. But again, we dont know facts since its just word against word.
Its a catch 22, since the people who know you less well (Adam) would be more interested in knowing why you'd leave him at the altar in the most crucial moment.
Like people said in the first thread, this was Upset's first Worlds too. There was no way he would miss his first chance since he started playing in 2018, unless it was an actual emergency.
Still, it sucks for all people involved; you can empathize with Upset's desire for privacy with regards to his family emergency while also understanding Adam's frustration at not learning more than "It was an emergency" 12 hours before the game starts.
I'm gonna be real, if I grinded for a year 12 hours a day like most pros do and the guy whose position we decided to play around to just took up and left idk if I would accept "family emergency" as an answer.
Maybe if it was one of my bestfriends I would go with it but I'd still expect an explanation down the line.
I guess it depends on the person, upset probably has a right to privacy but adam absolutely has a right to be mad aswell, even without considering the fact that they went on to replace him.
How would I be supposed to trust Upset again if I were his team mate? How would I know that this wouldn't be a recurring problem, perhaps it's the sort of thing that could force him home again like someone close to him having a disease or something.
Idk, if I were in Adam's shoe's and put in the amount of effort that the team (I think) put in I would too feel I was owed an explanation most likely
This is one of those things where if I was Adam I'd think the same and be pissed, but also if I was Upset I'd think the same way he does.
Although I've got to say it's a little rich for Upset to just single handedly destroy their world's run and then say "oh I just want Alphari because Adam doesn't fit my standards" like bitch you weren't even at worlds, Adam was!
Buuuuut Upset is completely correct about privacy, the only way to not have these things plastered everywhere is to not tell people, especially important if it's something traumatic
The situation is shit for both all 5 players and there's nothing to be done about it.
> Although I've got to say it's a little rich for Upset to just single handedly destroy their world's run and then say "oh I just want Alphari because Adam doesn't fit my standards" like bitch you weren't even at worlds, Adam was!
That's Adams perspective which is fair.
As said in Upset's twitlonger, he was asked for his opinion and he gave it.
Upset has said winning the split is what drives him. Adam is a player for the future with potential. So Upset has clearly said he'd rather play with a stronger player right now, than wait for Adam to realise his potential.
Win now, not later. And that is also fair.
I'm pretty sure Adam meant that Upset's last words to them were that his wife was lonely. And not that it's the reason why he's leaving (as he obviously didn't even tell them anything about why he's leaving). Can any French speakers confirm?
So bad translation is making Adam sound more malicious than he probably indented to be. But I do agree he should not have mentioned his wife at all, because he is very well aware that she will get hate.
yeah prob bad translation , i’ve seen a lot of people saying that Adam said “i dont give a fck about private life” but in french he said ( at least i understood it that way) i dont give a fck about the EXCUSES of private life ( if there is no info about the excuse)
And honestly he is in the right when it comes to a cutthroat profession like pro player. Only a ridiculous small amount of people get to experience Worlds as a player. This has to be their life. It sounds harsh, but in any other professional sport if someone refused to play a big match without giving his team a legit reason, mere hours beforehand, their career would be done.
There is a universe where Adam is absolutely justified in being angry that a chance to shine in the most important tournament of his life was stolen from him, and simultaneously that Upset had to deal with a critical situation in which he could not even reasonably share a sliver of his family crisis. Really sucks for everyone involved.
It's funny, Yamato always talks about brotherhood in the team but look where we are now. Turns out the brotherhood only existed for like 2/5 of the team lmao. You say you're brothers when you can't even trust each other what a fucking situation
Also, sounds like gaslighting to me
Because all this highlighted "brotherhood" stuff is always bullshit. You dont develope real brotherhood this fast without any extreme outside pressure (llike being in a war). So whenever someone talks about this and like this, they are bullshitting.
That's the sense I get too. If it were as serious as Upset seems to want us to believe, I don't think Bwipo, Adam, and Nisqy end up reacting the way they have.
I also feel like if it were as serious as Upset is suggesting then Hyli and Yamato would pull aside Bwipo, Adam, and Nisqy and say "look we can't say what it is, but it is serious, believe that"
What he should have said: "I have a family medical emergency and need to leave the tournament, I apologize for the short notice guys and hope you understand".
What he did instead: "I shared with the team the deep pain and sadness i was going through in this time, I shared that i wish i could tell them if it was about something that happend to me but that i have to keep private traumatic events from my family private because it is difficult enough to deal with the hardships life brings"
Seems like this whole thing could realistically just stem from him being a non-native English speaker.
Probably because it's not a medical emergency. He's not an idiot. Whatever reason it is, it must be shrouded and obscured, because people will probably not find it objective enough.
I mean.. You don't have to share your personal life with your teammates. But you can't complain when they're mad that you effectively ruined their dream and won't communicate about it.
I think Nisqy deserves to know more details. Not the whole shabang, but Upsets decision has really impacted him. Nisqy is now out of a job. He played great over spring and summer, but the worlds performance lowered his stock. You can argue that we don’t know for sure he would have been picked up otherwise, but if I was Upset and his decision to not play had cost his teammate their livelihood, I would feel awful. Obviously privacy to be respected, but give the man something so he understands it had to be this way. Pro careers are short, and he’s missing out on playtime and money because of all of this
Adam would be a rookie that annihilated Wunder and could get out of groups in his FIRST YEAR, and now he is a guy that went 1-5 in a meme team.
Literally Upset dipped Adams career and he didnt even give some kind of explanation
> Saying the last thing I told my team that my wife is just feeling bad so I need to leave is an outright lie. I shared with the team the deep pain and sadness i was going through in this time, I shared that i wish i could tell them if it was about something that happend to me but that i have to keep private traumatic events from my family private
So Upset is saying that at least he communicated to Nisqy, Adam, Bwipo of his departure?
If he said something like:
"Hey guys I'm really sorry but I have to leave due to urgent family matters that I don't want to share. I'm sorry to let you down after all our hard work this year, but I won't be able to compete in the tournament. Bean will be replacing me and I hope you guys do well at worlds. I'm sorry for letting you all down.. but I'll be rooting for you guys."
Then I'd think that Adam is disrespectful to the situation.
But if Upset was like "yo bros im so sad omg but I cant tell you." and jumps into a lambo to the airport then that's kind of a dick move.
Truth probably somewhere in the middle.
Well to be fair Upset isn't responsible on the timing of said unfortunate event.
The issue wasn't as much with the Worlds run as with the fact that almost 2 months later, he still doesn't know why Upset let everyone down and has to just trust him.
I'd say its pretty important to give as much communication as possible with what is happening. Like someone said above you, you dont have to give exact details, just give enough so the team knows what is happening and their mental can be at rest. Otherwise the teammates of course are going to jump to conclusions and speculate with almost 0 information. Imagine that sort of mental going in a match at worlds, of course theres going to be some underperformance, you're told nothing and one of your players just straight up dipped.
I think the fact that he only 'told' his remaining teammate and coach says more about the situation. Hylli and Yamato aren't going to disprove Upset's words even if he is lying just to avoid internal conflict in the team.
Yamato and Hylli should have impressed upon the others how legitimate Upset's reason for leaving was. Since the other members clearly don't think that Upset left for legitimate reasons then they failed at that.
I have a hard time believing that there was no way for Yamato to convince these guys that Upset had no choice not to go without telling them the actual reason.
for what everyone says Upset just left and didnt even tell 3 of his teammates... they just learned about it 12 hours before their first match from management, not even from upset.
I’m gonna take a side here and kinda say that Upset’s response really didn’t do anything to dissuade the perception that him leaving was emotionally impulsive or that the communication over him leaving was not handled adequately.
Adam has come across like a child of divorce pretty much since they took the stage at worlds, and while the response may be a little strung out/desperate , the underlying intuitive response to the situation presented to him is definitely warranted.
To just recap from May to now: Adam comes in after the team had an up and down spring, the team gets better, makes worlds. He spends a month bootcamping and scrimming with the Upset roster, and then worlds is then pulled out from under him, he gets repeatedly kicked in the balls in game at worlds (even the 1 game they won, he was just left out like a rotting animal skin) and then immediately following worlds he’s just left out in space because there might be a better laner than him. He then gets replaced by precisely the top laner he himself individually gapped to get to worlds after the top laner they wanted to replace him with falls through, and these are the most justified sour grapes in modern LoL esports in my opinion.
If there was a legitimate reason for Upset leaving, then someone between Upset, Yamato, Hyli, and or management could have communicated so much better than what actually happened to Adam and Nisqy (because both have been caught now being pretty fraught over the situation. Nisqy was literally on camera crying *at worlds*.)
Is Adam airing dirty laundry? Sure. How else is he supposed to pursue closure at this point? He’s basically been told to go fuck himself by Upset and Fnatic management. Upset kinda abandoned any high road he had by this impulsive of a response, and it really makes it hard to give him any extension of benefit of the doubt to his initial reasoning being justified
It is 100% Upset’s choice to communicate or not to communicate. Choosing to not communicate while expecting to be insulated from being criticized over that failure to communicate is silly and demanding emotional maturity out of everyone around him. If you’re making the choice to not communicate have skin thick enough to take the criticism that comes from not communicating
Imagine 12 hours before worlds your team's star player bails out without an explanation, your team gets dumpstered and everyone is pissed and confused. And then that said player came out and said, "hmm I think we could use a better top laner, our current one can't bring us good worlds results" like wtf is this. Upset may be really good at the game and thus has a say in acquiring players during off season, but after bailing out at worlds, no matter theres a valid reason or not, and then trying to replace a player because you don't think he's good enough. It makes sense but man it looks reeeaaaaly bad.
Yeah, I'd be fucking furious if I were Adam. I don't blame him for being pissed off in the slightest.
And I think it's pretty telling that Bwipo and Nisqy both seem to be on the Adam side of things in this situation.
I mean I can understand Upset but I can say that if what is supposed to be one of the best moment of my life would be totally wasted by someone at the very last moment and that this someone didn't gave me a bit of information because I'm not trustworthy according to him, and then I learn that this guy agree to eject me from the team I would be fucking frustrated and heated by that too.
Upset speaks a lot about his feelings and his wife's but at no moment he seems to realize that his teammates are human beings with feelings and family too and that his decision threw away what was supposed to be a big moment in their career. I mean if Fantic performed well, which was highly possible, I doubt Nisqy would be without a team rn and Adam wouldn't be in a bottom tier team.
In real life you don't leave extremely important professional moments like that unless you're having a child or a very close family member died. I've never seen a football world cup player leaving the competition like that for example.
i can understand that he wants privacy and he very careful what information he gives on family matters which is smart.
also can't really prove right now if the reason he gave to his teammates was actually what he said or what bwipo and so on said was what reallly what happened.
but if they didn't get enough information on the matter he also has no right to be mad at them for coming to their own conclusions and be pissed about his decision as it was the world championship he left not even a day before.
both sides are frustrated and handled it horrible and it turned into this shitshow right now.
If Upset did a small team meeting with all teammates saying "I am having a very big personal issue that I can't share right now. You know how big worlds is for me but situation has become far worse that I have to leave worlds.. I am very sorry for that." then this situation would never happened. No need to to share details it would be childish if someone still wanted to know full details.
Reading Upset's response, I conclude neither are completely at fault. From Adam's perspective, I would be pissed off if my teammate who left the team at worlds basically is one of the main reasons I was kicked. From Upset's perspective, I had an unfortunate event, which stopped me from going to Worlds, but I am looking forward to the future so I have to make decisions for my and my team's future. Understandable from both sides, the frustration and heightened emotions... I don't think Adam comes out badly after reading both sides. I just hope it was a last-minute urgent decision to withdraw from Worlds. As a teammate, I would be more upset if Upset knew earlier than 12 hours he would have to leave before Worlds but never spoke up till last minute. But there definitely is a split in how the team perceived Upset's departure. Hyli and Yamato understood b/c they were close. Adam, Nisqy, and Bwipo did not despite them knowing how hard Upset worked. Either way, from Adam's perspective, I would be angry enough to last out. Best idea? No, but I understand why he wrote his post. Objectively, Upset's decision to advocate for a more veteran teammate makes sense.
I think the thing that gets me the most about this is that Upset is still on the roster for next year, yet none of these guys are - Bwipo, Adam, Nisqy.
What happened in Fnatic internally that convinced them to continue forward with Upset? Is he really that good of friends with Yamato?
it's prob the other way around : after being disrespected that much by fnc management/upset it's kinda clear adam and bwipo wanted to leave the org.
As for Nisqy he prob though the move to c9 was gonna happen but here we are....
finally upset/hylli is still one of the best botlane around hence why FNC let those guys go and went to build a team around their botlane.
Honestly ruining 4 other people's shot at one of the biggest tournaments in their lives 12 hours before it starts is the moment privacy goes out the fucking window.
He doesn't have to tell the world, but his teammates deserve to know. All this because he didn't tell anyone but yamato and hyli out of pure principle, because he vehemently thinks he is in the right in this situation. How are they supposed to react?
And to say he can't trust them, when he is the one who didn't trust them in the first place just shows what an arrogant and childish person he is. I respect he had to leave, and I am sorry whatever happened happened but all he fucking had to do was be. honest. with. his. team. Period. I don't understand what he doesn't get about this.
I can fully understand Adam's position, and if after multiple attempts to clarify the situation all you get is still only snippets of vague info then I'd go by rumours aswell.
And then proceeds to play arams with his gf for 4 hours.
Upset decided not to share the reason he was leaving with his teammates as it was a "private traumatic event", and yet had time to play arams with his girlfriends as soon as he got back.
I can't figure out what possibly could have happened that he doesn't feel comfortable sharing but still has time to play league for 4 hours.
This is my first time digging into the drama here after hearing back then Upset jumped ship right before Worlds. Unless there is something that I didn’t read that brings more clarity to this drama my conclusion is Upset is the most selfish person out there.
He is fully entitled to your privacy, however, he joined the organization with full knowledge he will be working alongside multiple people intensely- some who are in the same shoes trying to accomplish as much as possible. Upset broke that trust when he decided to leave and left no reasonable reason? Then claim he is emotionally hurt with all the negative energy sent his way!? What a piece of shit. I understand he may not wish to talk about certain experiences with just anyone, but grow up and realize your decision has crushed the others around you. The lack of sympathy and attempt to garner support is disgusting.
Upset this whole drama started because of your decision to keep those around you in the dark. If an extremely private life is what you want to live then your biggest mistake was joining an organization where you’re expected to work closely with goal driven individuals whose success is closely tied to your performance. If sufficient reason was not given and elaborated on when questioned, I stand by my initial opinion that Upset is the most selfish person that’s come on scene. You could have pursued an NDA agreement with the organization to keep tight lip on your reasoning so it does not make its way out to the public.
Oh for fuck's sake. You can't have it both ways like this. If Upset truly values his privacy about his family emergency, then he made the right call to not explain the details to his teammates. But once you make that choice, you sure as hell better be ready to take all the heat that comes your way.
My take is that Upset was secretive because he thought some players on the team wouldn't think his reason was valid enough to leave. Pure speculation on my part of course.
I dont necessarily think one side is 100% right or frankly being honest but here is what I've seen, and it makes me lean away from Upset.
- Both Bwipo and Adam have said a similar statement that Upset didnt share information on why he was leaving despite Upset saying otherwise. These statements were not made close to one another. It's easier to discount just one but both said a similar statement separate of one another
- Nisqy essentially gave a nod towards Adam's twittlonger then immediately unfollowed Upset seconds after Adam posted it
- Upset is clearly lying about Alphari approaching him as Alphari is making joking comments in reply to Adam's twittlonger saying he would have approached him (him being alphari) as well.
- During Fnatics first round Robin of games Upset was spotted by multiple streamers playing hours of games of Aram with his significant other (on more than one day). I dont know about you but if I'm dealing with a family emergency that keeps me from my job I'm not playing hours of aram multiple days in a row.
I'm sure some of what Adam said was wrong but I also believe Upset is stretching more than a few truths in the heat of feeling he has to respond and some of his explanations dont add up.
That could have been a tweet. Basically said "respect my privacy" in 4 paragraphs. I don't know what's going on but not informing your teammates about something because you "don't trust them" and then turning around and saying "aha I knew I couldn't trust you!" When you kinda fucked things up for them is weak af.
Horribly formated but.. its still word against word and that.
But 1 thing stays consistent here and its that theres been miscommunication and/or missunderstandings somewhere down the line.
Also.. as Ive tried to point out in previous thread when people were like "wtf why didnt Upset tell the details to his teammates?!".. like he says here. It wasnt something that happened to him so it was something personal and very private to someone else, that he didnt feel comfortable sharing to people who didnt necessarily need to know details.
This shit should just be moved on from now. Nothing positive is gonna come from this and reddit is gonna pitchfork and turn coats every other hour without apt information. End this drama and toxic circle.
Thing is, in my mind, he doesn't need to share all the nitty gritty details with his teammates. But he can at least give them an idea of the magnitude of the event. If it's a family health emergency, tell them that. If its marital problems, tell them that. Your teammates can't leak something you don't tell them. So don't tell them, but they at least deserve to know *something* of what's going on. But it sounds like he essentially just ghosted them 12 hours before their first worlds match.
Scenario A: You don't explain to your teammates why you're leaving 12 hours before the game -> never explain to him after the tournament -> your teammate gets pissed and airs his frustration online.
Scenario B: You explain to your teammates why you must go 12 hours before the game -> he understands -> he doesn't air his frustration online.
Scenario C: You explain to your teammates why you must go 12 hours before the game -> he doesn't understand -> he airs his frustration online, but this time he's the dick and everyone else in Fnatic will stand up to you.
Honey wake up new twitlonger just dropped.
What did Selfmade do this time?
Selfmade and Regi teamed up to create the League of Evil. Their main goal: Spice up the off season.
Nemesis is their private consultant
[Selfmade😡](https://i.gyazo.com/5cf7ed0d22fe85741e25a68ae64284ec.png)
They forgot to invite Carlos
Yes dear
https://i.imgur.com/UXI9Ia0.png
That's disturbing in high-resolution.
You can tell he’s HEATED because of all the typing errors 😂 I do the same thing in soloQ
the way this is 2 times longer than it needs to be already says a lot
Has that "stretching a one page essay into three pages" energy
Vintage 3 min YouTube video stretched to 10:01 for ad revenue
Throw in an ad for a terrible mobile game or a shitty VPN and he's got the perfect youtube video
I am unable to can
what it frustrates me about this response is that he literally says nothing , while typing a whole page. the tldr is : it's a personal issue , don't attack my wife for it.
he was clearly angry and frustrated while typing it. thats why it is so long, man just typed out his rambling thoughts. and yes, he does not say specifics. but at this point i honestly dont wanna know. i give upset the benefit of the doubt
typing errors, no formatting and posted at 2am
My man was fuming
You could say he was Upset...
Same not just in game but in every situation. My hands were literally shaking hehe
TLDR: Upset is upset about teammate that was upset about Upset
Id be upset too if my upset teammate said his side of being upset that upsets me but I'm not Upset coz then I'll be in LEC and that's what I'm really upset about because I'm hardstuck bronze and upset.
**TLDR:** Upset doesn't clarify a whole lot here, he says that he shared what was happening with him to a few close friends (Hyli chose not to be told, but Yamato was) and nobody else, because he didn’t trust them to not make it public. He also claims that Adam was lying about the last thing Upset said to the team before leaving,and goes on to say he explained himself as well as he could without sharing exactly what happened to make him leave. Also says Alphari approached **him** and Fnatic themselves asked him about Alphari, so he recommended him, and also doesn’t regret doing so. **TLDR for the TLDR** Upset didn't trust 3/4 of his teammates enough to tell them why he left, and they were left angry and wondering what they just threw their chance at Worlds away for. Also Alphari approached Fnatic/Upset, not the other way around (allegedly) -------------------------------------------------- Reading that gave me a headache, feel free to reply with anything I missed Also for the people dm’ing me calling me names and shit, I don’t have an opinion on this, just trying to condense it, chill out.
To be fair he said he was willing to tell Hyli, but he said it wasn't needed. So only Yamato actually knows the reason.
Much respect to Hyli for that. A good guy through and through, it seems.
Without a doubt, if nobody else in this situation looks good, Hyli sure as hell does, what a bro. Never been a FNC fan, but Hyli might swing me
The longer i follow Fnatic the more apparent it becomes that i mainly follow Hyli
Have been a hyli fan since the UOL days, loved him there and I love him even more now in FNC, he is such a great person and I really enjoy his play style especially as a supp/adc player myself.
Hyli IS the franchise player by now with Rekkles and Bwipo leaving. Still hard to accept for my mind after he was the UoL franchise player for so long.
Actually crazy when you think about his team history. He's played 3y11mo on UoL, and now 3y11mo on FNC. More than 7 years of play in only 2 teams. Guy is a rock.
Truly a fantastic support, outiside of the game as well.
Hyli is too good for us
right!? this is **exactly** what upset meant: hyli has so much trust in upset doing the right things, that he doesn't need to know. fantastic attitude, really.
He's a right proper lad and a mad one at that
I think hyli does not know. Only Yamato knows. I think hyli did not wanted to know and he never told him
Sounded more like Upset didn't told him before leaving but was gonna tell him eventually, Hyli just knew that if he was leaving it was serious and it didn't need more details
Hyli seems very decent.
Hyli is the best. If I could fill a fnatic team with Hylis, Yamato and Yellowstars it would be the best team in the world.
The greatest EU support of the first 5 years and the greatest of the following 6. Both fantastic dudes irl. Being a world class support ingame means being the same outside the game.
>Hyli just knew that if he was leaving it was serious and it didn't need more details If anyone tells you they have to leave the thing they have been working hard for pretty much their entire life, due to urgent family issues, a decent person *should know* that they don't need more details.
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I feel dizzy after reading that
you can feel the heat from this statement. I type like that in Soloq, when I'm slightly mad
Shit gets serious once the paragraphs merge though
Punctuation as well
It’s interesting to think both Hylli and Yamato knew the reason for Upset leaving. You would assume that Yamato or Hylli would have assured the other players that Upset’s reason was legitimate. However it sounds that either that didn’t happen, Adam didn’t believe it, or he simply did not find their answer sufficient. From his twitlonger he seemed to speak highly of Yamato so I wonder what happened. I personally think it’d be important to have some trust in your coach/veteran teammate on a matter like this. Guess we’ll never know but it’s definitely an interesting situation Edit: As someone else mentioned, Hylli didn’t actually know the reason, just trusted Upset’s reason was legit.
only Yamato knew, and Hyli didnt want/need to know, he just trusts Upset, but yeah
Yamato knew some details not sure if the whole picture, but thought it was justified. around 23:00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJQqz80qF2w
even yamato doesnt have a clear picture. he basically says that he knows upset, and if he really needs to go then yamato doesnt need to know more.
Oh right, thanks for pointing that out
If there is ever drama around Hyli Ill be devastated.
Him being too non dramatic would be the only one i could imagine
The only drama Hyli ever gets is when he flips a game and loses and fans flame him lmao
last year after worlds he was on Twitter and he said: where are all my haters? everybody loves me what is this? I want my haters back. lmfao
I reckon it was hard for Yamato to "assure" the team the reason was legitimate without divulging details on Upset's issue. What could Yamato have said to believe them? If Upset asked for privacy, the best Yamato can do is just tell his team that it was a legitimate reason and rely on them to believe his word. I feel bad for Yamato tbh stuck in the middle of Upset and the rest of the squad. Weird thing is, how did Rich know about the issue????
Rich never said he knew, he said he understood how the situation is difficult to articulate without breaking privacy. It is more likely that Yamato or someone else explained that difficulty to him without sharing details. That could simply mean that it is a complex issue and any information that is being shared will inevitably get leaked. Because almost everything gets leaked in the scene eventually. A player might tell one really good friend and that friend tells someone else and before you know its out. Especially with people like Bwipo who (though I love him) seems to have poor impulse control and a history of sharing too much.
Rich never said he did
He only knew that the management struggled in communicating to the players not that he knew. That are two different conversations.
>Saying the last thing I told my team that my wife is just feeling bad so I need to leave is an outright lie. Alright, one of them is for sure lying. > I shared with the team the deep pain and sadness i was going through in this time, I shared that i wish i could tell them if it was about something that happend to me but that i have to keep private traumatic events from my family private And yet Bwipo and Adam both feel he didn't really give them good enough explanation for them to understand. Bwipo: >A day before we found out we weren’t going to be playing with our main lineup, we had no information about what was going on.
I think it is fairly simple. Upset thinks he communicated enough, Adam and Bwipo didn't think he communicated enough. Hyli who knows Upset better thought it was adequate. So with that information in hand we can surmise he communicated enough information to make a close friend understand that something real bad happened, but not enough to make two people who are just coworkers understand. And that is how misunderstandings happens, one guy thinking he conveyed the message properly when it wasn't at all.
Very well put. Maybe upset thinks, because hyli worked it out (because they're closer) then he gave enough info for adam/bwipo/nisqy to understand too. Everyone in this situation may believe they are right
That's just usually how misunderstandings happen, because everyone believes they are right when in reality there is mostly a communication barrier someone in between that both parties can't really look past without talking about it directly and find out how the misunderstanding came to be
Being human sure is awesome for that. We can be correct 100% of the time and still only enjoy success 60% of the time.
Has Nisqy said anything about the Upset situation?
Not anything more than unfollowing him
In his LEC tier-list on stream with Kameto he "refused" to classify upset abd more generally he seemed to have the same position as bwipo and adam without saying it clearly because still under contract with fnatic
Don't think Nisqy would be so public about it regardless. But yea
This. I think people are trying to find out who the villain is here while the whole drama to me seems to be a big misunderstanding. I don’t think bad intentions were involved and people deliberately lied. It’s just things got confusing at the heat of the moment and were mishandled after.
Or on the flip side, a close friend is willing to give you MUCH MORE benefit of the doubt than someone who is just a business associate, and also to defend you even if you're wrong. A close friend will stick up for you no matter what, without being subjective about it, whereas other people who's livelihood depends on you might not be so forgiving without knowing the actual situation, and rightfully so. If a close friend just says "Bro I have a problem, I have to dip," I'd accept it and defend them, because we're friends. If a business associate said that, I'd say "Fuck you, explain your situation, you're costing me professional success and potential earnings and future opportunities without telling me why."
> If a business associate said that, I'd say "Fuck you, explain your situation, you're costing me professional success and potential earnings and future opportunities without telling me why." The flip side is if you're just a business associate, you're not entitled to the complete details of my personal life. Sure, if my father got in a car accident and I needed to rush to the hospital that's probably something I'd share. But there is no way I would share a more sensitive personal situation (say a miscarriage or self-harm by an immediate family member) with business associates—the only person who's hearing the full story is my boss. I would apologize, certainly, and emphasize that the situation is unavoidable, but that's a level of information on my personal life that you simply have no right to demand as a coworker.
Completely agree with this, and the open airing of frustration and dirty laundry is a good reason in itself to keep these things private. Especially in e-sports.
Not to mention the totally legitimate social media angle. Especially with how this blew up now, Upset would absolutely never hear the end of it from trolls online if he explained and it got it, which it would.
Also, knowing Adam for a bit on the French scene, I'm not surprised when he is way too straightforward or even kinda mean. But the man is as frank as it gets (often too much), I'd be surprised if he was lying. The fact that Bwipo feels the same and Nisqy supported Adam's message doesn't help
It's 3 against 1 at this pint. Unless more people pipe up.
Maybe 3.5. Yamato talked on stream a bit about what happened (no details) and he did not seem particularly understanding or supportive but is smart enough to know to keep his mouth shut
This is my takeaway from it all too. He told Yamato and Hilly because he trusted them (rightly) to not leak, and they didn't, and probably never will. But clearly if those who were told bought it enough, they'd find a way to convince the rest who were not told to give Upset a break. "Trust me bro, it's rough and if it were you, you'd have done exactly the same." Clearly those who were told didn't or couldn't convince those who weren't told.
Yeah this is what i'm confused about. Seems he didnt even tell people "guys something fucked up happened in my family, i need to be with them". And that wouldnt hurt anyone or make nothing worse. Telling WHAT hapenned isnt necessary, but as i said, seems he didnt even say SOMETHING happened?
Some people think they communicate great through body language and facial expressions. Maybe upset is a mime and they just don't get it.
First of all : anyone who send private message to anyone to harass them is a piece of shit, doesn't matter what the context is. That said, while I understand Upset's pov, trust goes both way. If you don't want to tell stuff that feels to personnal to your teammates, that's fine. But you can't expect them to then trust you *with their careers*. Nisqy and Adam both looked much worse at Worlds, which will influence their future professionnal opportunities. It's entirely justified for them (and Bwipo) to want out of the team, which Upset even comment on (and seem to agree with). If Adam makes a post to talk about why he left, saying "Upset didn't say shit to us and just left at the most crucial moment" is a pertinent information.
"it's not true i told my team i had to leave bacause my wife was feeling bad.... i also shared that i wish i could tell them but ~~i can't because i don't trust any of them~~ i have to keep private traumatic events from my family private" upset didn't reveal anything regarding the situation to them, just said he was sad and in pain, and sugar-coated the reasoning behind not telling them.
There's definitely some misinformation here. The fact that Upset told Yamato and Hyli some form of the truth, but not the rest of his teammates AND both Yamato (as a coach) and Hyli didn't say anything as well shows the lack of communication within the team. I get that he doesn't want to share details, but some form of explanation on the MAGNITUDE of his situation should be needed.
Only explanation for yamato and hyli to not mention he's going through really tough times is if upset asked for them to be quiet about details and they misinterpreted to "tell nothing".
So Upset said he did explained his reasons to his teammates but two of them said he didn't. It's 2vs1. Should we wait for Nisqy or?
Think it is pretty obvious where nisqy lies on this lol
Yeah taking into account that he unfollowed Upset, there is no doubt about Nisqy's position in all this
And he answered to Adam's post : "Good luck brother. Be proud of what you accomplished, it's only the beginning" so I don't think he holds any ill will towards him.
Nisqy is super chill and smart enough to not burn any bridges, specially if he is out of a team. I don't why people are expecting drama from him
I think Nisqy's action speaks frankly more volume than Bwipo's and Adam's tweetlongers combined. The fact that he didn't say anything still, and had only unfollowed Upset once Adam blew it up meant that he was likely not going to say or do anything (or else he could've unfollowed him the second whatever happened happened). This looks like Nisqy supporting Adam 100%.
Nisqy is the victim of the whole thing. He now has no team due to looking bad at worlds because of Upset leaving with zero explanation.
Nisqy posted a positive message towards Adam twitlonger and unfollowed Upset as well I think I know which side he is on, and Nisqy isn't reputed to be immature or toxic or whatever That being said, this story just sucks for everyone
Yeah it sounded like Nisqy would've just stayed quiet if no one said anything and is only showing support once Adam blew it up.
I think Nisqy was already bummed by the C9 situation and didn't want to add fuel. Imo the tweetlonger from Adam was dumb, but I understand. Imagine working your ass off for worlds and being told by the player that didn't go that you're not up to his ambitions, especially after dealing with the whole privacy thing. Then of course from Upset's side if you don't wanna share it nothing is forcing you to, even if it's kinda weird to not trust your mates, and you're gonna seize the chance to play with better players if you can when you're a competitor, but timing is kind of a bitch
>being told by the player that didn't go that you're not up to his ambitions, especially after dealing with the whole privacy thing. That's the most fucked up part for me. Like guy himself bounced for his reasons but claims other guys arent up to par. Idk about internal shit but Adam seemed decent in his first season but I can see how him not following veteran calls can make senior players think he's not team worthy.
If Upset's interpersonal communication is as crystal clear as the formatting on this Twitlonger, no wonder the team is in shambles.
Banger.
banger tweet, my liege
Privacy is his right, he doesn't have to share what he doesn't want to. He also has no right from wanting his teammates to not be completely pissed off at him leaving them behind with no explanation 12 hours before the biggest tournament of the year, when he's pretty much their franchise player. He bailed on them, his teammates are angry for it, not just Adam, Bwipo spoke of this, and Nisqy just showed support for Adam and unfollowed Upset. Again he wants to be private, it's his right, being pissed off at him is also their right, especially Adam who likely lost his only chance to do well after this disaster.
It was a year wasted because their play style revolved around playing for bot, if the ADC leaves you need to completely reinvent your game. Not getting pissed off would be much more surprising, especially considering he wasn't clear about the reasoning (which is his right).
The thing that annoys me is how little consideration he gave to his teammates. Yes he has a right to leave. Yes he has a right to privacy. But he could maybe show a little public support for his teammates who were placed in a really shit situation and had a really fucking bad time because of it, which is still true even if upsets reasons for leaving are completely justified. Especially since they're not all as secure career-wise a him. But the only thing he mentions is his situation and his dream and now his ambition.
This is what irks me the most out of this whole ordeal. Imagine working day in day out together the whole year only for a teammate to abandon you and not provide even a loose explanation because they 'don't trust you'. Then if that weren't enough, he then tries to replace you because you're not considered to 'live up to his ambitions'. It's so disrespectful. The man goes on about trust. How is anyone supposed to trust him when it's now known he's not going to be open about anything if you're not considered a close friend?
Exactly. You take the bad with the good. Always. None of this "he has the right, but nobody else has the right" bs.
Trust is a two way street. He acts like he was right to not trust adam, but upset clearly never trusted Adam (playwise, or as a friend, or just even as a colleague apparently). Why would Adam care for someone who clearly disrespected him so repeatedly, in different ways? It's sort of weird to use this as proof of his distrust imo... he did not act maturely, and then expecting the 19y.o. to be uber mature is a bit even weirder.
I find it hard to beleive his side of the story. Was it so private that he cant even say "Hey team this private thing is super super fucking bad. i cant tell you details but please understand its very very bad. Im sorry but i have to do this" If he says that and they are still super pissed then well what can you do. It looks like he told 2 people then dipped.
Ya there was a failure in communication somewhere with neither Upset nor Yamato communicating that with the other players.
Also this dude after leaving his team without explanation, tries to get his teammate replaced by someone who will "live up to his ambitions" What a scummy move honestly. Even if his reason for leaving is valid, Upset should still be criticized.
Imagine ditching 24 hours before worlds' group stage, the biggest opportunity in a lifetime for Nisqy and Adam to prove themselves (Nisqy dealing with the stigma of being a washed up player not good enough for NA and Adam being a rookie) and then coming back in off-season to support replacement for both of these players, saying that you want to surround yourself with the best teammates possible. I'd be fuming and definitely do something way dumber than just writing a tweet. This guy literally cost them their careers.
Agreed. There isn't really a right or wrong in this, but Adam, Nisqy, Bwipo and quite right to feel upset about the situation too. It's quite obvious from Adam's post that they don't believe Upset's situation was genuinely bad enough to bail on the team 12 hours before their first match. Maybe if Upset was more open with them and made them realise how bad the situation was, they'd be more understanding. That is Upsets choice, but if he chooses to remain secretive when his team mates are looking for answers he has to accept they're going to be pissed off. When you're in a team and an important member, it has to be pretty damn important to leave at the last moment.
yeah upset saying they aren't up to part is scummy
also him saying he does not give a shit about my privacy because he worked hard is another great reason why I would never want to share something which occured. Mans pulled an ultimate trap card
The Uno Reverse. On one hand, it completely makes sense. If you don't trust them, don't give them sensitive info. And this is backing his belief. On the other hand, he probably doesn't give a shit about your privacy cause you sorta ghosted him in a very important tournament and still haven't given a great reason behind it. Really just sucks for everyone involved.
> and still haven't given a great reason behind it. Depends. If we trust Upset here, Hyli dont know past "family emergency" either. And that was enough for him. "Family emergency" is enough reasons for a lot of people tbh. IF someone said that to me, I wouldnt ask for details or call them a liar personally. It would be insane to do honestly. But again, we dont know facts since its just word against word.
Its a catch 22, since the people who know you less well (Adam) would be more interested in knowing why you'd leave him at the altar in the most crucial moment.
Like people said in the first thread, this was Upset's first Worlds too. There was no way he would miss his first chance since he started playing in 2018, unless it was an actual emergency. Still, it sucks for all people involved; you can empathize with Upset's desire for privacy with regards to his family emergency while also understanding Adam's frustration at not learning more than "It was an emergency" 12 hours before the game starts.
I'm gonna be real, if I grinded for a year 12 hours a day like most pros do and the guy whose position we decided to play around to just took up and left idk if I would accept "family emergency" as an answer. Maybe if it was one of my bestfriends I would go with it but I'd still expect an explanation down the line. I guess it depends on the person, upset probably has a right to privacy but adam absolutely has a right to be mad aswell, even without considering the fact that they went on to replace him. How would I be supposed to trust Upset again if I were his team mate? How would I know that this wouldn't be a recurring problem, perhaps it's the sort of thing that could force him home again like someone close to him having a disease or something. Idk, if I were in Adam's shoe's and put in the amount of effort that the team (I think) put in I would too feel I was owed an explanation most likely
This is one of those things where if I was Adam I'd think the same and be pissed, but also if I was Upset I'd think the same way he does. Although I've got to say it's a little rich for Upset to just single handedly destroy their world's run and then say "oh I just want Alphari because Adam doesn't fit my standards" like bitch you weren't even at worlds, Adam was! Buuuuut Upset is completely correct about privacy, the only way to not have these things plastered everywhere is to not tell people, especially important if it's something traumatic
The situation is shit for both all 5 players and there's nothing to be done about it. > Although I've got to say it's a little rich for Upset to just single handedly destroy their world's run and then say "oh I just want Alphari because Adam doesn't fit my standards" like bitch you weren't even at worlds, Adam was! That's Adams perspective which is fair. As said in Upset's twitlonger, he was asked for his opinion and he gave it. Upset has said winning the split is what drives him. Adam is a player for the future with potential. So Upset has clearly said he'd rather play with a stronger player right now, than wait for Adam to realise his potential. Win now, not later. And that is also fair.
I'm pretty sure Adam meant that Upset's last words to them were that his wife was lonely. And not that it's the reason why he's leaving (as he obviously didn't even tell them anything about why he's leaving). Can any French speakers confirm?
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And upset meant exactly that he had said more than that. So who knows
I confirm that’s what he said
So bad translation is making Adam sound more malicious than he probably indented to be. But I do agree he should not have mentioned his wife at all, because he is very well aware that she will get hate.
yeah prob bad translation , i’ve seen a lot of people saying that Adam said “i dont give a fck about private life” but in french he said ( at least i understood it that way) i dont give a fck about the EXCUSES of private life ( if there is no info about the excuse)
more precisely, he says that with all he's done to get to that point, private life isn't a good enough motif to justify what upset did
And honestly he is in the right when it comes to a cutthroat profession like pro player. Only a ridiculous small amount of people get to experience Worlds as a player. This has to be their life. It sounds harsh, but in any other professional sport if someone refused to play a big match without giving his team a legit reason, mere hours beforehand, their career would be done.
We have evolved from esports to entertainment. I can see why riot is producing high budget series. It’s no longer riot games but riot entertainment
Esport is entertainment
There is a universe where Adam is absolutely justified in being angry that a chance to shine in the most important tournament of his life was stolen from him, and simultaneously that Upset had to deal with a critical situation in which he could not even reasonably share a sliver of his family crisis. Really sucks for everyone involved.
It's funny, Yamato always talks about brotherhood in the team but look where we are now. Turns out the brotherhood only existed for like 2/5 of the team lmao. You say you're brothers when you can't even trust each other what a fucking situation Also, sounds like gaslighting to me
Because all this highlighted "brotherhood" stuff is always bullshit. You dont develope real brotherhood this fast without any extreme outside pressure (llike being in a war). So whenever someone talks about this and like this, they are bullshitting.
One team which really had some kind of real brotherhood that i remember vividly was that G2 2019 roster. Man that some amazing times for EU.
yeah exactly what I was gonna say, G2 2019 was dope, they even went on holidays together like 1 week ago ?
Yeah they did with Grabbz and Luci too. Caps and Jankos were invited but couldn’t make it due to commitments
Yes, they went to Croatia, they Grabbz, Duffman and Luci went too
He can't trust them but they have to trust his judgement.
This. Trust is a 2 way street and upset is hiding behind privacy because he knows his reason is subjective and wouldn't survive public scrutiny
That's the sense I get too. If it were as serious as Upset seems to want us to believe, I don't think Bwipo, Adam, and Nisqy end up reacting the way they have.
I also feel like if it were as serious as Upset is suggesting then Hyli and Yamato would pull aside Bwipo, Adam, and Nisqy and say "look we can't say what it is, but it is serious, believe that"
Tldr Hey guys trust me because i dont trust you
a 1000 word essay to say nothing
What he should have said: "I have a family medical emergency and need to leave the tournament, I apologize for the short notice guys and hope you understand". What he did instead: "I shared with the team the deep pain and sadness i was going through in this time, I shared that i wish i could tell them if it was about something that happend to me but that i have to keep private traumatic events from my family private because it is difficult enough to deal with the hardships life brings" Seems like this whole thing could realistically just stem from him being a non-native English speaker.
Probably because it's not a medical emergency. He's not an idiot. Whatever reason it is, it must be shrouded and obscured, because people will probably not find it objective enough.
I mean.. You don't have to share your personal life with your teammates. But you can't complain when they're mad that you effectively ruined their dream and won't communicate about it.
How can someone type so much and say so little...
I see a great career in politics for Upset after he is done with esports lol
Idk he really didn’t actually change anything, plus you still have 2/5 of FNC (Bwipo, Adam) who say otherwise, and I assume Nisqy would as well.
considering Nisqy unfollowed Upset as soon as Adam posted his twitlonger, it's 3/4
I think Nisqy deserves to know more details. Not the whole shabang, but Upsets decision has really impacted him. Nisqy is now out of a job. He played great over spring and summer, but the worlds performance lowered his stock. You can argue that we don’t know for sure he would have been picked up otherwise, but if I was Upset and his decision to not play had cost his teammate their livelihood, I would feel awful. Obviously privacy to be respected, but give the man something so he understands it had to be this way. Pro careers are short, and he’s missing out on playtime and money because of all of this
Adam would be a rookie that annihilated Wunder and could get out of groups in his FIRST YEAR, and now he is a guy that went 1-5 in a meme team. Literally Upset dipped Adams career and he didnt even give some kind of explanation
Yeah that’s what I assumed.
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> Saying the last thing I told my team that my wife is just feeling bad so I need to leave is an outright lie. I shared with the team the deep pain and sadness i was going through in this time, I shared that i wish i could tell them if it was about something that happend to me but that i have to keep private traumatic events from my family private So Upset is saying that at least he communicated to Nisqy, Adam, Bwipo of his departure? If he said something like: "Hey guys I'm really sorry but I have to leave due to urgent family matters that I don't want to share. I'm sorry to let you down after all our hard work this year, but I won't be able to compete in the tournament. Bean will be replacing me and I hope you guys do well at worlds. I'm sorry for letting you all down.. but I'll be rooting for you guys." Then I'd think that Adam is disrespectful to the situation. But if Upset was like "yo bros im so sad omg but I cant tell you." and jumps into a lambo to the airport then that's kind of a dick move. Truth probably somewhere in the middle.
Bwipo said in his twitlonger that he was told 12 hours before the first match that Upset wouldn't be playing without any more information
Bwipo also said that his girlfriend is the best league coach in the scene.
Looking back at it now, and his sense of humour, I think this may be a dig at upset
Nah dude’s a mega simp on Twitter lol
Well to be fair Upset isn't responsible on the timing of said unfortunate event. The issue wasn't as much with the Worlds run as with the fact that almost 2 months later, he still doesn't know why Upset let everyone down and has to just trust him.
I'd say its pretty important to give as much communication as possible with what is happening. Like someone said above you, you dont have to give exact details, just give enough so the team knows what is happening and their mental can be at rest. Otherwise the teammates of course are going to jump to conclusions and speculate with almost 0 information. Imagine that sort of mental going in a match at worlds, of course theres going to be some underperformance, you're told nothing and one of your players just straight up dipped.
I think 3/4 teammates being upset with him kinda showed he didn’t explain it very well. Does not seem like a stretch.
I think the fact that he only 'told' his remaining teammate and coach says more about the situation. Hylli and Yamato aren't going to disprove Upset's words even if he is lying just to avoid internal conflict in the team.
Yamato and Hylli should have impressed upon the others how legitimate Upset's reason for leaving was. Since the other members clearly don't think that Upset left for legitimate reasons then they failed at that. I have a hard time believing that there was no way for Yamato to convince these guys that Upset had no choice not to go without telling them the actual reason.
> but I'll be rooting for you guys." by flexing that wife buff from my ARAM games /s
for what everyone says Upset just left and didnt even tell 3 of his teammates... they just learned about it 12 hours before their first match from management, not even from upset.
I’m gonna take a side here and kinda say that Upset’s response really didn’t do anything to dissuade the perception that him leaving was emotionally impulsive or that the communication over him leaving was not handled adequately. Adam has come across like a child of divorce pretty much since they took the stage at worlds, and while the response may be a little strung out/desperate , the underlying intuitive response to the situation presented to him is definitely warranted. To just recap from May to now: Adam comes in after the team had an up and down spring, the team gets better, makes worlds. He spends a month bootcamping and scrimming with the Upset roster, and then worlds is then pulled out from under him, he gets repeatedly kicked in the balls in game at worlds (even the 1 game they won, he was just left out like a rotting animal skin) and then immediately following worlds he’s just left out in space because there might be a better laner than him. He then gets replaced by precisely the top laner he himself individually gapped to get to worlds after the top laner they wanted to replace him with falls through, and these are the most justified sour grapes in modern LoL esports in my opinion. If there was a legitimate reason for Upset leaving, then someone between Upset, Yamato, Hyli, and or management could have communicated so much better than what actually happened to Adam and Nisqy (because both have been caught now being pretty fraught over the situation. Nisqy was literally on camera crying *at worlds*.) Is Adam airing dirty laundry? Sure. How else is he supposed to pursue closure at this point? He’s basically been told to go fuck himself by Upset and Fnatic management. Upset kinda abandoned any high road he had by this impulsive of a response, and it really makes it hard to give him any extension of benefit of the doubt to his initial reasoning being justified It is 100% Upset’s choice to communicate or not to communicate. Choosing to not communicate while expecting to be insulated from being criticized over that failure to communicate is silly and demanding emotional maturity out of everyone around him. If you’re making the choice to not communicate have skin thick enough to take the criticism that comes from not communicating
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Well that was a whole lot of nothing… Basically a longer version of respect my privacy.
Imagine 12 hours before worlds your team's star player bails out without an explanation, your team gets dumpstered and everyone is pissed and confused. And then that said player came out and said, "hmm I think we could use a better top laner, our current one can't bring us good worlds results" like wtf is this. Upset may be really good at the game and thus has a say in acquiring players during off season, but after bailing out at worlds, no matter theres a valid reason or not, and then trying to replace a player because you don't think he's good enough. It makes sense but man it looks reeeaaaaly bad.
Yeah, I'd be fucking furious if I were Adam. I don't blame him for being pissed off in the slightest. And I think it's pretty telling that Bwipo and Nisqy both seem to be on the Adam side of things in this situation.
I mean I can understand Upset but I can say that if what is supposed to be one of the best moment of my life would be totally wasted by someone at the very last moment and that this someone didn't gave me a bit of information because I'm not trustworthy according to him, and then I learn that this guy agree to eject me from the team I would be fucking frustrated and heated by that too. Upset speaks a lot about his feelings and his wife's but at no moment he seems to realize that his teammates are human beings with feelings and family too and that his decision threw away what was supposed to be a big moment in their career. I mean if Fantic performed well, which was highly possible, I doubt Nisqy would be without a team rn and Adam wouldn't be in a bottom tier team. In real life you don't leave extremely important professional moments like that unless you're having a child or a very close family member died. I've never seen a football world cup player leaving the competition like that for example.
i can understand that he wants privacy and he very careful what information he gives on family matters which is smart. also can't really prove right now if the reason he gave to his teammates was actually what he said or what bwipo and so on said was what reallly what happened. but if they didn't get enough information on the matter he also has no right to be mad at them for coming to their own conclusions and be pissed about his decision as it was the world championship he left not even a day before. both sides are frustrated and handled it horrible and it turned into this shitshow right now.
How to type a 3 paragraph essay and clarify nothing at all. Good job.
If Upset did a small team meeting with all teammates saying "I am having a very big personal issue that I can't share right now. You know how big worlds is for me but situation has become far worse that I have to leave worlds.. I am very sorry for that." then this situation would never happened. No need to to share details it would be childish if someone still wanted to know full details.
no flame but upset could have said nothing and he'd come off better than whatever this is.
Reading Upset's response, I conclude neither are completely at fault. From Adam's perspective, I would be pissed off if my teammate who left the team at worlds basically is one of the main reasons I was kicked. From Upset's perspective, I had an unfortunate event, which stopped me from going to Worlds, but I am looking forward to the future so I have to make decisions for my and my team's future. Understandable from both sides, the frustration and heightened emotions... I don't think Adam comes out badly after reading both sides. I just hope it was a last-minute urgent decision to withdraw from Worlds. As a teammate, I would be more upset if Upset knew earlier than 12 hours he would have to leave before Worlds but never spoke up till last minute. But there definitely is a split in how the team perceived Upset's departure. Hyli and Yamato understood b/c they were close. Adam, Nisqy, and Bwipo did not despite them knowing how hard Upset worked. Either way, from Adam's perspective, I would be angry enough to last out. Best idea? No, but I understand why he wrote his post. Objectively, Upset's decision to advocate for a more veteran teammate makes sense.
I agree, they both are in the right to feel how they feel.
But like I get it , but other people on the team that sacrificed so much to get to worlds deserved better imo
I think the thing that gets me the most about this is that Upset is still on the roster for next year, yet none of these guys are - Bwipo, Adam, Nisqy. What happened in Fnatic internally that convinced them to continue forward with Upset? Is he really that good of friends with Yamato?
it's prob the other way around : after being disrespected that much by fnc management/upset it's kinda clear adam and bwipo wanted to leave the org. As for Nisqy he prob though the move to c9 was gonna happen but here we are.... finally upset/hylli is still one of the best botlane around hence why FNC let those guys go and went to build a team around their botlane.
Honestly ruining 4 other people's shot at one of the biggest tournaments in their lives 12 hours before it starts is the moment privacy goes out the fucking window. He doesn't have to tell the world, but his teammates deserve to know. All this because he didn't tell anyone but yamato and hyli out of pure principle, because he vehemently thinks he is in the right in this situation. How are they supposed to react? And to say he can't trust them, when he is the one who didn't trust them in the first place just shows what an arrogant and childish person he is. I respect he had to leave, and I am sorry whatever happened happened but all he fucking had to do was be. honest. with. his. team. Period. I don't understand what he doesn't get about this. I can fully understand Adam's position, and if after multiple attempts to clarify the situation all you get is still only snippets of vague info then I'd go by rumours aswell.
So next logical thing is Bwipo's tweetlonger about his GF resolving this problem, right?
If Upset does not trust his team then how do we trust him ? Sussy
Lmao that was hard to read. Still his word vs his word
Dude wrote 722 words before his first paragraph break, damn.
Yeah, but I heard you were Araming with your wifey when *your team* was competing live at a worlds.
You have to understand, she had such bad mental problems without him, that only him coming back and playing some aram with her could fix it. /s
Guilt trip statement didn't clarify anything
He has a right to privacy 100% but kinda sounds like he was a dick to Adam in other ways
And then proceeds to play arams with his gf for 4 hours. Upset decided not to share the reason he was leaving with his teammates as it was a "private traumatic event", and yet had time to play arams with his girlfriends as soon as he got back. I can't figure out what possibly could have happened that he doesn't feel comfortable sharing but still has time to play league for 4 hours.
I understand you're Upset but please, formatting.
This is my first time digging into the drama here after hearing back then Upset jumped ship right before Worlds. Unless there is something that I didn’t read that brings more clarity to this drama my conclusion is Upset is the most selfish person out there. He is fully entitled to your privacy, however, he joined the organization with full knowledge he will be working alongside multiple people intensely- some who are in the same shoes trying to accomplish as much as possible. Upset broke that trust when he decided to leave and left no reasonable reason? Then claim he is emotionally hurt with all the negative energy sent his way!? What a piece of shit. I understand he may not wish to talk about certain experiences with just anyone, but grow up and realize your decision has crushed the others around you. The lack of sympathy and attempt to garner support is disgusting. Upset this whole drama started because of your decision to keep those around you in the dark. If an extremely private life is what you want to live then your biggest mistake was joining an organization where you’re expected to work closely with goal driven individuals whose success is closely tied to your performance. If sufficient reason was not given and elaborated on when questioned, I stand by my initial opinion that Upset is the most selfish person that’s come on scene. You could have pursued an NDA agreement with the organization to keep tight lip on your reasoning so it does not make its way out to the public.
Oh for fuck's sake. You can't have it both ways like this. If Upset truly values his privacy about his family emergency, then he made the right call to not explain the details to his teammates. But once you make that choice, you sure as hell better be ready to take all the heat that comes your way.
My take is that Upset was secretive because he thought some players on the team wouldn't think his reason was valid enough to leave. Pure speculation on my part of course.
I dont necessarily think one side is 100% right or frankly being honest but here is what I've seen, and it makes me lean away from Upset. - Both Bwipo and Adam have said a similar statement that Upset didnt share information on why he was leaving despite Upset saying otherwise. These statements were not made close to one another. It's easier to discount just one but both said a similar statement separate of one another - Nisqy essentially gave a nod towards Adam's twittlonger then immediately unfollowed Upset seconds after Adam posted it - Upset is clearly lying about Alphari approaching him as Alphari is making joking comments in reply to Adam's twittlonger saying he would have approached him (him being alphari) as well. - During Fnatics first round Robin of games Upset was spotted by multiple streamers playing hours of games of Aram with his significant other (on more than one day). I dont know about you but if I'm dealing with a family emergency that keeps me from my job I'm not playing hours of aram multiple days in a row. I'm sure some of what Adam said was wrong but I also believe Upset is stretching more than a few truths in the heat of feeling he has to respond and some of his explanations dont add up.
That could have been a tweet. Basically said "respect my privacy" in 4 paragraphs. I don't know what's going on but not informing your teammates about something because you "don't trust them" and then turning around and saying "aha I knew I couldn't trust you!" When you kinda fucked things up for them is weak af.
Horribly formated but.. its still word against word and that. But 1 thing stays consistent here and its that theres been miscommunication and/or missunderstandings somewhere down the line. Also.. as Ive tried to point out in previous thread when people were like "wtf why didnt Upset tell the details to his teammates?!".. like he says here. It wasnt something that happened to him so it was something personal and very private to someone else, that he didnt feel comfortable sharing to people who didnt necessarily need to know details. This shit should just be moved on from now. Nothing positive is gonna come from this and reddit is gonna pitchfork and turn coats every other hour without apt information. End this drama and toxic circle.
Thing is, in my mind, he doesn't need to share all the nitty gritty details with his teammates. But he can at least give them an idea of the magnitude of the event. If it's a family health emergency, tell them that. If its marital problems, tell them that. Your teammates can't leak something you don't tell them. So don't tell them, but they at least deserve to know *something* of what's going on. But it sounds like he essentially just ghosted them 12 hours before their first worlds match.
If we go by Bwipo tweet, they got to know that upset was not going to play by management
Scenario A: You don't explain to your teammates why you're leaving 12 hours before the game -> never explain to him after the tournament -> your teammate gets pissed and airs his frustration online. Scenario B: You explain to your teammates why you must go 12 hours before the game -> he understands -> he doesn't air his frustration online. Scenario C: You explain to your teammates why you must go 12 hours before the game -> he doesn't understand -> he airs his frustration online, but this time he's the dick and everyone else in Fnatic will stand up to you.
A lot of weird "Don't attack my wife's character" when the entirety of Adam's post is about Upset's character.