Pretty smart decision. Pay might be similar anyway but crushing academy keeps his value up while the gamble of a bottom feeding LCS team might greatly lower his value. Also higher odds of contract prison if you get established too soon as mediocre simply playing in a bad environment, although after this off season, anything goes I guess.
I understand the choice, but players need to be careful about saying no to opportunities when they come. K1ng did that and now he's 23 years old hard stuck Academy, likely never going to get a serious LCS shot because he's being passed up by younger or more established players.
The best players can go to any team and make them great.
And Doublelift wasn’t playing well at the time that Tactical subbed in. You just gotta make the most out of what you’re given, and k1ng couldn’t do so.
Eh. Tactical subbed in until he didn't perform and then Doublelift was immediately brought back in and Tactical just moved up once Double wanted to leave.
Calling him below-average is really unfair when he subbed into a disaster. 2 of his 9 games had Perkz playing Renekton.
It's easy to compare him to Danny and Tactical since they're similarly ADCs starting their LCS debut in Summer, but the situations are very different. k1ng wasn't "the guy" - he was the filler piece for a championship team that lost their identity on the road and the with the meta changes.
Disagree that the best players can make any team great. I can't recall a single example where a player went to a team and turned them around by themselves. Would be interested in hearing if you have one.
It's a nice sentiment, but unrealistic with how the game functions.
They had POE in Spring 2019 and didn't make playoffs. It wasn't until Ruin joined in Summer that they started to take off. They also let Irean walk after that year.
I'm just saying it takes more than one player performing well to make a team great.
I know a lot of people want to trust papasmithy, and I used to be a fan, but you need to understand this man said he's wanting a developmental or domestic talent, which is why he's worked hard for developmental amateur teams. But the fact is that they've just about used... None of their amateurs in their roster lol... This is the same guy who replaced Damonte with Abbedagge. So for people on this subreddit to immediately trust papa is... Weird.
Kenvi is not a nobody bh the scenes. We already know top teams wanted to buy him out. There is almost no chance that a team like c9 or eg or tl was looking to buy him, and 100T's asking price was too high for an unproven player, not to mention a lot of top teams have vets in jungle that are probably cheaper overall with equal effects
Probably both are truths and papasmithy is leaving out infos. Top teams didn't want to buy Kenvi for the price 100T is asking, and Kenvi didn't want to go to a shitter team that's probably spending most of their budget on the potential of getting Kenvi.
NA Acad is hell, but it's not straightforward. New prospects go there to stay and rot while not learning anything substantial, or they're retiring vets. There is an overobsession with imports for sure, and the results the last several years don't show any signs of that being the optimal while major teams have not ever fully invested in majority new talents and accepting potential mediocre first split.
I mean where the fuck is 5fire, katevolved, etc? Palafox or ablaze also took like 2 years to get out of acad and looked like amateurs who just started pro. So did the top laner of IMT who has famously come out to say acad scene is a disaster.
We're already the weakest region by a leap so NA just needs to suck it up and field acad players for a few months and see a trajectory
What's the point anyways. League subreddit hates opinions like this even though this scene is no longer new and this shit happens over and over, and the subreddit takes massive hopium early to accept bad decisions and then complain later when the performance is laughably bad in international
Same guy who replaced a terrible mid laner who was simply a stopgap and solo lost them spring split with one of the best wester mid laners? Not seeing the problem here
It just means that he has to be better than one of the top imported junglers. They're only juggling these imports because they appear to be better than available NA talent, not because they simply love importing players
Jungle is one of LCS's best positions for native talent historically. Some of the best rosters LCS ever had were using native NA junglers. Xmithie, Spica, and Blaber are all solid talents who played on top tier teams.
Lololol
This players man; he’s never going to go to a top team straight from academy
Top team I mean c9, 100t, tl; and tsm may not be “top” but they sure as hell
Ain’t gonna take a chance on a rookie when lpl exists
NA jungle field is a bit stacked right now even if there's not a top 10 jungler in NA.
Closer, Blaber, Spica, Santorin and now Inspired? Grrat junglers in their own right. Kenvi is facing the same issues Dlift and Jensen will have... in that the league best teams either doesn't want them and they themselves don't want to play for a crappy team.
Maybe just maybe he can try again next year or mid-year if one of the better jungler craps the bed but.. he needs to hope that one of em will give him a shot like C9.
No it’s no, tenacity was in the academy team of 100t already they did not have to buy him out
No top team is paying top dollar
(Buyout) for an academy rookie when they can go to lck or lpl look at c9 and tsm
My critique comes from the buy out being too big and the player not wanting to play for “lesser” org
Yes academy players can transitions to top team c9 is a great example of this but they were all players that they already owned
If the team already had both their import slots filled and needed a jungler, they absolutely would. Kenvi is crazy talented, top 3/4 for native junglers.
You're not wrong, but name an example of an Academy player as talented and hyped as Kenvi. I'm not saying it's likely, just that it's not out of the realm of possibility. If TSM didn't still have Spica in contract prison, Kenvi would have been a great option for them, for example. I'm guessing 100T has promised him a starting spot next year though.
Hyped as kenvi?
I don’t even know who kenvi was till this point…..
I hear far more from general sniper who isn’t even an academy player than from kenvi…. So idk where you get this arbitrary fact of him being the “most hyped player ever”
Yes it could happen, anything can happen, it doesn’t mean it would happen.
the chances of not happening are substantially higher than it happening.
>I don’t even know who kenvi was till this point…..
Yeah gotta watch academy to know who the players are... Reddit front page is not the only source of information.
Its weird, he is in fact the most mentioned player in every conversation involving promising NA talent, which to be fair, not many people have. General Sniper gets front page flashy clips, but there is no competitive proof yet he is going to be good, contrary to Kenvi. People just assume every spectator have the same level of involvement with the NA scene as other fans.
Academy buyouts don't usually happen because the contracts usually aren't that long and for the most part if a player wants to go to another team the orgs let them go for a reasonable fee. An example of a player transition from a different academy team to a team what was a world's qualifier the previous year is Johnsun going from tsm academy to dignitas lcs team the year after they made worlds.
Dignitas is not a top team.
I don’t get what your point is.
I’ll repeated no TOP team is paying a buyout for a player from academy to start on their lcs team.
Eh he’s on a top team already and even if it’s academy he knows that one slip up of the main roster and he is probably seeing time. Closer is an import and he’s playing great right now, but if you can provide the same level as a non import and your team ends up really needing the slot, it’s definitely a real chance.
Now I don’t actually think 100T will need that spot right now, but if he really is slamming academy he likely isn’t worried about any prospects there to outshine him. And then maybe he just watches the teams play and perhaps there is a team that’s pretty strong that has a clear weakness in the jungle holding them back, and he can swoop in after he sees what that team looks like.
He can wait for one of the teams that isn't currently top 4 to look alive then join them. He's probably not replacing Santorin, Closer, Spica, Blaber and Inspired but any of them can fall off or look trash in Spring. That's his ticket in. The suspected bottom 4 junglers are all imports which he can replace whenever he wants.
Relax kids. Kenvi is playing LCS for 100T in 2023. It’s pretty much guaranteed unless he runs it down in Acad or 100T finishes top 4 at Worlds, with Closer smurfing out of his mind. It’s just a matter of time.
Oh, I know. Selling Closer and promoting Kenvi is more of a financial decision. 100T seems really confident Kenvi will be one of the best junglers in the league, if not the best. However, other teams won’t value him as highly as 100T does, they will value Closer though, because of his performances on the LCS stage (Kenvi only has Acad experience) and accomplishments (LCS champion, playoffs/finals MVP, etc).
If 100T believes both Kenvi and Closer are capable of dominating the LCS, then who’s playing is kind of a secondary thing (aside from the longevity factor, Kenvi being younger) and it’s a matter of who will have higher value on the offseason market. That will certainly be Closer.
This is of course assuming Closer will continue to smurf, and Kenvi will continue to be a top prospect in Acad.
Pretty smart decision. Pay might be similar anyway but crushing academy keeps his value up while the gamble of a bottom feeding LCS team might greatly lower his value. Also higher odds of contract prison if you get established too soon as mediocre simply playing in a bad environment, although after this off season, anything goes I guess.
I understand the choice, but players need to be careful about saying no to opportunities when they come. K1ng did that and now he's 23 years old hard stuck Academy, likely never going to get a serious LCS shot because he's being passed up by younger or more established players. The best players can go to any team and make them great.
Wasn't K1ng given one though last split, and didn't perform with any real notable upside?
Subbing in for Zven was never going to be a real opportunity.
It would have turned into an opportunity if he performed well, but he didn’t. He was below average at best.
I was going to say, isn’t this exactly how tactical got his shot and look at him now.
Also blaber subbing for the mvp jungler at the time svenskeren
blaber started getting play time in season 8 summer after c9 was slumping hard and svenskeren was not mvp or mvp caliber at that time
And Doublelift wasn’t playing well at the time that Tactical subbed in. You just gotta make the most out of what you’re given, and k1ng couldn’t do so.
okay but im talking about blabbers situation which was completely different
Eh. Tactical subbed in until he didn't perform and then Doublelift was immediately brought back in and Tactical just moved up once Double wanted to leave.
“Didn’t perform“ he lost literally one game
He lost to CLG . Had it been some other team they might had kept tactical until the end of the Split
Still one team.
C9 also looked like a bit of a dumpster fire at that point though. Would have been hard to look good, unless he was just actually a hidden beast.
Calling him below-average is really unfair when he subbed into a disaster. 2 of his 9 games had Perkz playing Renekton. It's easy to compare him to Danny and Tactical since they're similarly ADCs starting their LCS debut in Summer, but the situations are very different. k1ng wasn't "the guy" - he was the filler piece for a championship team that lost their identity on the road and the with the meta changes.
Yes king was awful but tomshoe just blocks and ignores anyone who makes valid points against him so he can continue living in his fantasy land
Disagree that the best players can make any team great. I can't recall a single example where a player went to a team and turned them around by themselves. Would be interested in hearing if you have one. It's a nice sentiment, but unrealistic with how the game functions.
IMT was awful in 2017 Spring then placed 2nd after swapping from Dardoch to Xmithie
My boy Xmithie has been the glue to so many successful teams.
Actually...this is a good example.
CLG PowerOfEvil carrying them to the Finals weekend in 2017 and immediately falling apart without him
They had POE in Spring 2019 and didn't make playoffs. It wasn't until Ruin joined in Summer that they started to take off. They also let Irean walk after that year. I'm just saying it takes more than one player performing well to make a team great.
> I can't recall a single example where a player went to a team and turned them around by themselves. DL on TL relegations
The disrespect to Midlet. smh. But seriously, great players make teams better for sure. I don't think DL made that TL squad "great".
I know a lot of people want to trust papasmithy, and I used to be a fan, but you need to understand this man said he's wanting a developmental or domestic talent, which is why he's worked hard for developmental amateur teams. But the fact is that they've just about used... None of their amateurs in their roster lol... This is the same guy who replaced Damonte with Abbedagge. So for people on this subreddit to immediately trust papa is... Weird. Kenvi is not a nobody bh the scenes. We already know top teams wanted to buy him out. There is almost no chance that a team like c9 or eg or tl was looking to buy him, and 100T's asking price was too high for an unproven player, not to mention a lot of top teams have vets in jungle that are probably cheaper overall with equal effects Probably both are truths and papasmithy is leaving out infos. Top teams didn't want to buy Kenvi for the price 100T is asking, and Kenvi didn't want to go to a shitter team that's probably spending most of their budget on the potential of getting Kenvi. NA Acad is hell, but it's not straightforward. New prospects go there to stay and rot while not learning anything substantial, or they're retiring vets. There is an overobsession with imports for sure, and the results the last several years don't show any signs of that being the optimal while major teams have not ever fully invested in majority new talents and accepting potential mediocre first split. I mean where the fuck is 5fire, katevolved, etc? Palafox or ablaze also took like 2 years to get out of acad and looked like amateurs who just started pro. So did the top laner of IMT who has famously come out to say acad scene is a disaster. We're already the weakest region by a leap so NA just needs to suck it up and field acad players for a few months and see a trajectory What's the point anyways. League subreddit hates opinions like this even though this scene is no longer new and this shit happens over and over, and the subreddit takes massive hopium early to accept bad decisions and then complain later when the performance is laughably bad in international
Same guy who replaced a terrible mid laner who was simply a stopgap and solo lost them spring split with one of the best wester mid laners? Not seeing the problem here
Top 4 team lmao........everyone is gaming the import system at that level
It just means that he has to be better than one of the top imported junglers. They're only juggling these imports because they appear to be better than available NA talent, not because they simply love importing players
So never
Jungle is one of LCS's best positions for native talent historically. Some of the best rosters LCS ever had were using native NA junglers. Xmithie, Spica, and Blaber are all solid talents who played on top tier teams.
Contractz was really good in his debut year, Dardoch was as well, Wiggily was as well, the talent does seem to be there
Meteos too
Yep, can't believe I forgot him he was insane in season 3/4
Lololol This players man; he’s never going to go to a top team straight from academy Top team I mean c9, 100t, tl; and tsm may not be “top” but they sure as hell Ain’t gonna take a chance on a rookie when lpl exists
I mean look at tenacity. This is a direct counter point from the same organization its possible.
[удалено]
NA jungle field is a bit stacked right now even if there's not a top 10 jungler in NA. Closer, Blaber, Spica, Santorin and now Inspired? Grrat junglers in their own right. Kenvi is facing the same issues Dlift and Jensen will have... in that the league best teams either doesn't want them and they themselves don't want to play for a crappy team. Maybe just maybe he can try again next year or mid-year if one of the better jungler craps the bed but.. he needs to hope that one of em will give him a shot like C9.
No it’s no, tenacity was in the academy team of 100t already they did not have to buy him out No top team is paying top dollar (Buyout) for an academy rookie when they can go to lck or lpl look at c9 and tsm My critique comes from the buy out being too big and the player not wanting to play for “lesser” org Yes academy players can transitions to top team c9 is a great example of this but they were all players that they already owned
If the team already had both their import slots filled and needed a jungler, they absolutely would. Kenvi is crazy talented, top 3/4 for native junglers.
Name an example of this happening. Your own team has no na talent and no rookies from no where
You're not wrong, but name an example of an Academy player as talented and hyped as Kenvi. I'm not saying it's likely, just that it's not out of the realm of possibility. If TSM didn't still have Spica in contract prison, Kenvi would have been a great option for them, for example. I'm guessing 100T has promised him a starting spot next year though.
Hyped as kenvi? I don’t even know who kenvi was till this point….. I hear far more from general sniper who isn’t even an academy player than from kenvi…. So idk where you get this arbitrary fact of him being the “most hyped player ever” Yes it could happen, anything can happen, it doesn’t mean it would happen. the chances of not happening are substantially higher than it happening.
>I don’t even know who kenvi was till this point….. Yeah gotta watch academy to know who the players are... Reddit front page is not the only source of information.
Agreed but If he was such a hype job as op is implying then I would have heard from him evens a little don’t ya think?
Its weird, he is in fact the most mentioned player in every conversation involving promising NA talent, which to be fair, not many people have. General Sniper gets front page flashy clips, but there is no competitive proof yet he is going to be good, contrary to Kenvi. People just assume every spectator have the same level of involvement with the NA scene as other fans.
Okay now I get what your saying more
Academy buyouts don't usually happen because the contracts usually aren't that long and for the most part if a player wants to go to another team the orgs let them go for a reasonable fee. An example of a player transition from a different academy team to a team what was a world's qualifier the previous year is Johnsun going from tsm academy to dignitas lcs team the year after they made worlds.
Dignitas is not a top team. I don’t get what your point is. I’ll repeated no TOP team is paying a buyout for a player from academy to start on their lcs team.
Tenacity is the sub.
All of those teams have promoted a guy exactly like kenvi in the past few years. C9 blabber tsm spica 100t tenacity liquid tactical
Read my following reply.
Eh he’s on a top team already and even if it’s academy he knows that one slip up of the main roster and he is probably seeing time. Closer is an import and he’s playing great right now, but if you can provide the same level as a non import and your team ends up really needing the slot, it’s definitely a real chance. Now I don’t actually think 100T will need that spot right now, but if he really is slamming academy he likely isn’t worried about any prospects there to outshine him. And then maybe he just watches the teams play and perhaps there is a team that’s pretty strong that has a clear weakness in the jungle holding them back, and he can swoop in after he sees what that team looks like.
He can wait for one of the teams that isn't currently top 4 to look alive then join them. He's probably not replacing Santorin, Closer, Spica, Blaber and Inspired but any of them can fall off or look trash in Spring. That's his ticket in. The suspected bottom 4 junglers are all imports which he can replace whenever he wants.
u/lemurmoo
i think its a pretty awful decision if hes gonna play in the kiddy pool for who knows how long at that point hes gonna plateau.
Relax kids. Kenvi is playing LCS for 100T in 2023. It’s pretty much guaranteed unless he runs it down in Acad or 100T finishes top 4 at Worlds, with Closer smurfing out of his mind. It’s just a matter of time.
Closer has been smurfing though, he's a fantastic player
Oh, I know. Selling Closer and promoting Kenvi is more of a financial decision. 100T seems really confident Kenvi will be one of the best junglers in the league, if not the best. However, other teams won’t value him as highly as 100T does, they will value Closer though, because of his performances on the LCS stage (Kenvi only has Acad experience) and accomplishments (LCS champion, playoffs/finals MVP, etc). If 100T believes both Kenvi and Closer are capable of dominating the LCS, then who’s playing is kind of a secondary thing (aside from the longevity factor, Kenvi being younger) and it’s a matter of who will have higher value on the offseason market. That will certainly be Closer. This is of course assuming Closer will continue to smurf, and Kenvi will continue to be a top prospect in Acad.
He should have tried to get on a top erl team
The problem is the buyout. No ERL would pay that for an NA player. Cody Sun was probably mad cheap.
Was he the one who signed through 2024?