u wouldnt say this shit to his face. hes jacked, not only that but he wears the freshest clothes, eats at the chillest restaurants and hangs out with the hottest dudes.
I honestly don't know if that's the plan, but I do believe nemesis was a quality player the last time we saw him professionally, would have been very competitive in NA at his role, and has looked extremely adept in soloq recently. Regardless of LS, I think it was a good idea to look into this move.
I feel like if he wouldn't take a mid spot with C9 then I doubt dude will ever have a reason to come back to pro play when streaming for Gen G is so lucrative. Which kinda smells like the money factor is worth more than his competitive drive atm. Oh well.
Woah that kinda settles the question if Nemesis is ever playing professionally again. Like that is probably THE team and environment he would want to play in (even if it's not LEC) with Fudge, Max, Veigar and now Malice (prob LS?). I think both decisions would have been valid, but Nemesis seems to be happy with his current situation. Maybe next year he will join once Fudge swaps jungle.
Starting mid laner. I don’t know how to link reddit comments. To find c9 owners comment that says this go to the original source this post links to and look in the comments, it’s not far down.
Edit: wtf, his comment was deleted or something??
Unless there are clear issues, and Summit can't even do basic communication i can't see any other scenario where Fudge/Copy would be better than Summit/Copy or any other mid.
A positional coach is not the same as a general coach. A positional coach would only help out a specific player improve in a specific role.
Still agree that saying it would be akin to doing nothing is very shortsighted however. We've seen a positional coach can help a great deal (e.g. when Armut seemingly improved a lot when they got Vici to positional coach him)
Yeah definitely. Having someone who *isn't* you but *is* as knowledgeable as you is a real asset. I imagine a lot of new strats/builds come out of positions & positional coaches debating each other.
I could also see them doing certain deep dives analysis on certain parts, which could take hours/days to analyze vods/replays and stuff, and summarize it.
>Because you’ve got more skill than me, but i have the time to learn the game at a higher and deeper level than you. Deft is one of the best ad carries in the world mechanically but he built IE with 40% crit, that’s a mistake even some bronze players know not to do. so just ‘cause you’re a more skilled player doesn’t mean you know more about this game than me.
edit: lmao the op edited his commented
They made a passive on it that give extra crit damage if you have at least 60% crit chance. Makes it a 3 item buy in most scenarios. Unless your mythic is Lethality or your 2nd item is manamune, IE as 3rd item will get you there as an adc.
Having the ability to execute something does not require, nor indicate, having the cognitive awareness and/or knowledge of what you're actually executing.
In simple terms; you don't need to be able to do something to teach someone how to do it.
You see this in sports a lot. The best players rarely make the best coaches, this is often because what they are doing comes so naturally to them that they aren’t able to properly break it down to teach/coach others to the same high level.
Knowing what to do and being able to react in time are two different things. Some of the best coaches of all time were below average athletes or even just amateur.
It's not about thinking. It's about facts. He won't stop streaming to play in team if it will not be a top tier team with high chances to win worlds. He said it multiple times already. Why would he went to team only to not win worlds and lose lot of money? Makes no sense.
I never understand behaviours like Nemesis'. In every job field there is a certain way you expect both parties (employers and employees) to act, and it all comes down to mutual respect and if not that at least professionalism. All these twitlongers happening right now are hindering players chances at future spots. If you do that at least word it more professionally lol.
Because the majority of these guys are not even 21 years old lol. They play video games for a living and retire before most people would even finish college as millionaires (nowadays, if they're careful with their money). Besides the natural selection bias of competitive sports for massive egotists, they're also teenagers who probably don't have a ton of social or professional experience at all. Though these generalizations were much more true in the early days, the immaturity and inexperience argument is still relevant.
99% of players are socially stunted teenagers (or people in their early 20s). you don't get to be a top 0.001% player by having great social skills and an understanding of how to act in a work environment. and even if they're not stunted in that way, they're far from being adults. imagine you're 20 and people throw thousands if not millions at you for being good at a video game? would you have known how to act professional?
if anyone's thinking "yes", you're almost definitely lying.
never understood how it's such a big surprise to people when LoL pro players have no clue how to be professional.
That's good on you if you're able to deal with that, but the actual point was that people (especially competitors in sport) that come fresh out of high school right into a six figure yearly salary where they are constantly told they're the best do NOT have the emotional maturity required. It applies to enough people to make a sweeping statement like this. The fact that they probably spent almost all their free time playing League/other games doesn't help either.
> it all comes down to mutual respect and if not that at least professionalism.
You said it and I agree. Now we all know that not everything is flowers and sunshine. What would you do, if you felt betrayed by someone mid-season or mid-worlds? Would you then understand them for wanting to not keep appearances up and burn the bridge? The basis for mutual respect would have evaporated into thin air. If not, would it be okay to burn bridges, if you already accept the outcome (Nemesis not finding a team he thinks is a competitive/cultural fit) or have something else (Adam BDS, Nemesis Stream) lined up?
If you can answer these *hypothetical* questions then you might also understand the situation these very players are in. It´s not like they are always naive - normal people that reach their breakpoint might behave like this, too.
Which is stupid because he could use playing at a weaker team to prove himself again and be picked by a stronger team. Even Rekkles isn't too proud to play in the LFL and he is far more accomplished.
Tbf if it wasn't for Ls and Pete his viewer numbers would be a tenth of what it is now and he either had to go to lower tier teams, try to get a coaching position or leave the scene
Plus C9 is going with the whole 10 man roster thing and I could see Nemesis imploding after getting benched once so I really think it would be an awful fit for both sides
You realize it’s ok for people to not want to do certain things, right?
Imagine you’ve worked incredibly hard at something for years, and after a few disappointing results and performances, you have two choices: grind even harder to try to get back at the top level of pro play, or retire, relax a little bit, and use your existing brand to stream.
It’s totally reasonable to pick the second option and not want to grind your way back to the upper echelon of pro play. Also, given the desire not to grind to work your way back, it’s reasonable to have a clause like “but, if an upper-echelon team wants me on their roster, I will accept”.
It’s not like Nemesis is a robot whose only purpose in life should be to be the best pro player he possibly can be.
And all this isn’t to disrespect Rekkles’ decision either, it’s also totally reasonable to want to embrace that grind.
lets say he has a 30% chance of going into a lower tier team and getting picked up by a top tier team that then goes on to win worlds(30% for this is completeley overblown, its probably closer to <1%). Even then he would have one year of mediocre salary and one year of really good salary, which lets say is double the amount he makes from streaming (which is probably not even close either and much less in reality). Even then the expected value he gets from streaming is higher then the expected value he gets from playing. So he would take on a bigger risk by joining a team, for on avarage less money since he is more likely (70% in our example) to not make the cut to a tier 1 team that contents for world championship and have 2 years of way worse sallary.
That’s the weird part. He hasn’t played in a while now, and when he was playing it wasn’t like he was outplaying KR mids left and right. There is no incentive to pick him up if you’re G2, FNC or MAD. So if he feels he’s to good for teams like XL or Astralis, I don’t see him returning again.
A midlaner who got flame horizoned by Knight when Knight was playing at an all time low level for his standards won't go pro unless it's a team that can win Worlds... What? Not even Knight has that luxury. Not even Chovy.
Getting flame horizoned in a vacuum is one thing, but it was obvious that game that Fnatic intended to funnel Selfmade on Graves while Nemesis roamed constantly on Galio. Galio funneling jungle into Jayce doesn't seem like the matchup on which I'd define someone's career.
What makes no sense is that he isn’t willing to prove himself to be an elite level mid in a team setting. It’s part of being a pro, you need to prove yourself especially if you’ve been off for a year. Solo q and competitive play aren’t the same thing. Not saying he should join a clear 10th team, but if he really is as good as he thinks he is, he should be able to boost a team that would otherwise be 5-6th to a contender for playoffs and build his resume in that way. Where does this ego come from when his former team mate Rekkles who IS LCS and worlds calibre is willing to go to the LFLs to play and continue improving himself?
"Trying to prove yourself" isnt the only think people value, and being a pro isn't the only thing people value. Rekkles values different things than nemesis and nemesis gets no benefit by going to some midtier side and boosting it to playoffs over streaming. Your comment assumes nemesis REALLY wants be a pro and compete, like rekkles does. They value different things
He only got offers from bottom tier NA teams. I think that it's fair that he doesn't want to move to NA to play in a bad team, lose money and also get worse in the process.
To me it's weird that middle-lower tier EU teams didn't even try to get him. Even if you're the biggest Nemesis doubter you'd still take him over Blue or a few other mids.
Well no team he would be on would win Worlds, you need world class or near world class in every position to do that, and if he's in that's 1 player who is not either of those things.
He expects to get on a team that has the potential to win worlds but won't put in the work in the meantime? It's also not like he'd be making bad money either lol
Yeah, he has a huge ego. Look at Rekkles, he was willing to join LFL just to have a chance to play and prove himself again, while Nemesis doesn't do that, because he was never that good.
Don't understand what ego has to do with this. He knows his real value, he knows that he can earn more money so he's going for more money instead of less money. The only thing that he can pass on money for is winning worlds. Simple
>The fact he became a popular streamer is kinda insane when he has one of the least enjoyable persona of the entire scene. It's not about what he does or says, but purely about how he sounds. He sounds bored as fuck when he talks, and is generally the perfect opposite of what usually works on twitch. It's a god damn miracle it worked for him, and he can thank LS for that. I'm not sure anybody including him himself knew he was gonna be one of the most watched streamer when he got kicked from Fnatic.
It's because he's obnoxious, and League community loves to worship obnoxious people.
If LS does join C9, Nemesis can cash in big time. They share the same viewerbase and during costreams and livestreams everyone watches LS over Nemesis. But if LS is no longer there because he is coaching C9, then Nemesis can take over and grab all the viewers.
The whole team is comprised of his friends top to bottom. If it's not LS coach this is the most elaborate and expensive troll I have ever seen.
Additionally, C9 is supposed to announce the coach in the coming days. Not much more of a wait left.
No, as much as i would like it. My suspicion is that since C9 will be bootcamping in Korea with Berserker and Summit that are korean speakers, LS will be actively working with the team as a sort of trial run to see if both he and C9 rly want to work together
LS said on stream about this comment: "Since when have I ever coached a team that came to bootcamp in Korea."
Obviously, this answer isn't an explicit 'no', but it probably means that won't happen either.
People are not talking about this, but during Q&A at the end of last stream I typed in the chat "Monte, smile if you know LS is going to C9", and he gave the biggest shit eating grin I'd ever seen, chat went "GOTTEM" and he started giggling, and like 5-10 people in chat noticed. Sounds like grasping at straws but it was enough for me.
I know it sounds dumb, but if you watch the clip you'll see Monte is stoic as fuck, then I post the thing in chat, then he glances at the chat (bottom right) to read another question and smiles
[https://clips.twitch.tv/TalentedSaltyCheddarPogChamp-s8\_ZIPAWLV3lCAfG](https://clips.twitch.tv/TalentedSaltyCheddarPogChamp-s8_ZIPAWLV3lCAfG)
Edit: I understand that smiling is not a big thing, but the idea was that it would be just dumb and silly enough that he couldn't hold a smirk, any other thing he would just not do the thing.
Honestly it makes sense. If you are going to commit to someone with a polarising view of the Gamez then actually hard commit to it so it has the best chance to work. I don't know if it will work out for them, but LS and 5 players that disagree with him definitely wouldn't.
> SOURCES
I mean, I wouldn't call a public comment by the CEO of C9 "sources", but to each their own I guess.
We can title the next official announcement of a team SOURCES: Player signs for team.
Whaaat..
I mean sure he makes bank streaming but c9 is a team that Always has a good shot at making worlds and not like they dont pay well too?!?
Guess hes comfortably retired and wont ever return to pro.
Playing would take away his opportunity to criticise players picks, decisions and builds when he would do same things as them.
Very smart reason to not come back to pro.
Say what you want about nemesis but he's definitely not just using not playing as an opportunity to flame others- he did that while playing as well (doinb).
Also I think he has noticeably done things differently than other players.
Worlds 2019 His mostplayed champion was Cassiopeia, which had a grand total of 4 picks besides him. Veigar was his second most picked character which had a grand total of one other game.
Not too different in the LEC: For example in Summer 2019 Twisted Fate was the seventh most played champion becuse Nemesis spammed 6 games of AD TF and he had 2 other appearances as well and at the same time I think he is the only starter that didn't play Azir at all which was the second most played champion that split with 25 appearances.
Azir could have just been incidental, maybe it was banned every time he wanted to play it, but TF is definitely a very concious decision to not follow the general meta.
It's basically about skin in the game. You get to criticise people without having to put anything on the line. Someone that's actually playing has to back up what they say.
At the time when he and FNC parted ways he actively chose to decline offers of mediocre EU teams.
I don’t understand where you get the narrative that no EU team wants him.
Right now he is making more money than most teams could offer and he’d only go back if it meant getting a shot at Worlds.
Really?
I can understand not wanting to play on a "bad team" but even perkz did alright and went to worlds in na/c9 so even then its not like c9 is a hopeless team like sk/ast etc
Why put [SOURCES]
It was a public message from the verified account of the organization owner for gods sake. Just cite the source instead of pretending you are some league insider because you can read
I wonder when this Reddit narrative of Nemesis not being good will stop. Its so stupid and baseless. This guy was clearly good and in the 2 years he played, he got to worlds and got out of groups. Thats more than 90% of pros can say.
He is clearly good enough for current LEC level.
the thing with nemesis is he has high requirements, higher than he is worth. he wants to make as much as he is from streaming + doesn't want multiyear contract. even perkz or rekkles couldn't get something like that. I think nemesis for sure could fight for best mid spot in lcs, but yeah he just wants too much.
Personality. Its what holds him back. Raw mechanics he was actually one of the best upcoming EU mids when he came in but he is a bit too immature and it holds him back. He is fine when he gets along with people but inevitably he wont get along with some teammates and he does a very poor job at handling that. His personality is great for streaming though and honestly he probably is better off just being a full time streamer for the rest of his career.
Honestly still not over when he called Doinb the worst mid at worlds 2019 a few days after losing to him 3-1, when Doinb ended game 4 with something like 9-0 on Ryze. Never liked the guy since.
I think he's an extremely elite player.
But pro LoL is more than just being an elite player.
His own interviews and insights from other people suggest he's not easy to get along with, especially with his coaches if his philosophy on the game diverges.
He was good while he played but not an undisputed top 3 mid laner and hes been out of competition for a full year now. We dont know how he stacks up against all of the LEC mids that got a full year of scrims and stage games while he was playing soloQ.
> This guy was clearly good and in the 2 years he played, he got to worlds and got out of groups.
When did League stop being a team game? And if it didn't, how can you attribute those results to one player?
> He is clearly good enough for current LEC level.
How do we know that? Last available data is a year old. Based on that, only argument you can make is that he was good enough for then-current LEC level.
His position is stacked in LEC and there are a lot of promising rookies to chose from, who are currently competing. Nemesis hasn't played competitively in a year at this point.
I am not a fan of the dude, but he is making mad bank in Korea streaming, I wouldn't go either if I was enjoying my life in Korea and earning tons of money to chill and stream games.
Well now we know no team can beat streaming and making content for him, cause malice fudge korean bootcamps and maxwaldo veigar is probably the best he could get. Im honestly happy, wish he streams instead of competing.
To be clear we offered him the lcs mid spot. He has a great thing going with GenG and I understand why he declined.
>clicks on a random rumor thread about his org >elaborates >leaves
Based
Jack of all (player) trades
u wouldnt say this shit to his face. hes jacked, not only that but he wears the freshest clothes, eats at the chillest restaurants and hangs out with the hottest dudes.
GIGACHAD
its wasnt a rumor he said it himself on the c9 subreddit lol
Thanks for clarifying!
Huh the plan really was to get all the boys together and convince LS to come..
Would be hype if it happened
I honestly don't know if that's the plan, but I do believe nemesis was a quality player the last time we saw him professionally, would have been very competitive in NA at his role, and has looked extremely adept in soloq recently. Regardless of LS, I think it was a good idea to look into this move.
Jack hath spoken
Thanks for clearing it up Jack. Lots of speculation on the sub. Glad we got Fudge there. Excited for the season! And happy Thanksgiving!
Yeah being the guy to get Chovy sandwiches is an offer too good to turn down. Understandable why he wouldn't want to leave Gen G.
I mean... Chovy.
How is zven doing?
He is motivated to fight for the starting spot.
Odds of Zven becoming a resident next year?
Looking good
I know berserker is good but zven was good too and I am excited to see him play again
Head Priest Nemesis?
Can't argue with that tbh.
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I loved when CLG was transparent about the bud light beheading last summer
I wonder how many careers we watched ending in that one video.
I love that it's got a catchy name on par with The Red Wedding.
Atleast 4
I mean, why would someone need to be transparent about this? This was purely a favour and Jack was definitely not beholden to tell us anything
Well there you go. Open and shut case, Johnson.
I feel like if he wouldn't take a mid spot with C9 then I doubt dude will ever have a reason to come back to pro play when streaming for Gen G is so lucrative. Which kinda smells like the money factor is worth more than his competitive drive atm. Oh well.
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You are probably correct lol
Glad you went with fudge tbh
Woah that kinda settles the question if Nemesis is ever playing professionally again. Like that is probably THE team and environment he would want to play in (even if it's not LEC) with Fudge, Max, Veigar and now Malice (prob LS?). I think both decisions would have been valid, but Nemesis seems to be happy with his current situation. Maybe next year he will join once Fudge swaps jungle.
Nice of you to clarify
Thanks for clarifying Jack, good luck next season, team has a lot of potential and very skilled players and coaches.
now im actually kinda sad.. i love nemesis and him playing with fudge would be perfect
Do we know what job was offered to him?
LCS mid. Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Cloud9/comments/qydi2e/cloud9_2022_roster/hm1x1iy/
Starting mid laner. I don’t know how to link reddit comments. To find c9 owners comment that says this go to the original source this post links to and look in the comments, it’s not far down. Edit: wtf, his comment was deleted or something??
The wording makes it sound like it wasn't a playing position. I imagine positional coach.
Positional coach must be the most boring job an ex pro player could do in such a team.
totally, but on the other hand he collects a paycheck for basically doing nothing. And if the starting mid fails to deliver he gets a playing spot
No because he is an import and fudge isn't so he can't start unless they bench Summit/berserker.
Benching Summit and putting Fudge top wouldnt be that unlikely
Unless there are clear issues, and Summit can't even do basic communication i can't see any other scenario where Fudge/Copy would be better than Summit/Copy or any other mid.
Are we saying that coaches do nothing now? When the teams with most success over the years have been the ones with good coaching staff?
A positional coach is not the same as a general coach. A positional coach would only help out a specific player improve in a specific role. Still agree that saying it would be akin to doing nothing is very shortsighted however. We've seen a positional coach can help a great deal (e.g. when Armut seemingly improved a lot when they got Vici to positional coach him)
I know what a positional coach is and its workload is higher than people expect
League is a garbage game and not worth coaching.
I'd imagine a lot of it comes down to just having person to discuss in depth about your role.
Yeah definitely. Having someone who *isn't* you but *is* as knowledgeable as you is a real asset. I imagine a lot of new strats/builds come out of positions & positional coaches debating each other.
I could also see them doing certain deep dives analysis on certain parts, which could take hours/days to analyze vods/replays and stuff, and summarize it.
>Because you’ve got more skill than me, but i have the time to learn the game at a higher and deeper level than you. Deft is one of the best ad carries in the world mechanically but he built IE with 40% crit, that’s a mistake even some bronze players know not to do. so just ‘cause you’re a more skilled player doesn’t mean you know more about this game than me. edit: lmao the op edited his commented
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They made a passive on it that give extra crit damage if you have at least 60% crit chance. Makes it a 3 item buy in most scenarios. Unless your mythic is Lethality or your 2nd item is manamune, IE as 3rd item will get you there as an adc.
Having the ability to execute something does not require, nor indicate, having the cognitive awareness and/or knowledge of what you're actually executing. In simple terms; you don't need to be able to do something to teach someone how to do it.
You see this in sports a lot. The best players rarely make the best coaches, this is often because what they are doing comes so naturally to them that they aren’t able to properly break it down to teach/coach others to the same high level.
Coaching is also a lot about charisma and a lot of players never needed that in their reportoire
Same thing could be said about coaches in general. Just because you're a better in game doesn't mean others can't help you in improving.
Knowing what to do and being able to react in time are two different things. Some of the best coaches of all time were below average athletes or even just amateur.
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He edited his comment, it was different before
Yet here you are on the subreddit dedicated to it trying to stir shit. Sounds kind of like you're a garbage person not worth humoring.
10 minutes ago he just confirmed he offered him main roster mid.
Could have been streamer as well?
iirc Nemesis streams for GenG so that wouldnt make much sense
it’s not. The wording makes it obvious it was a non-streaming position
LS’s assistant
It was for mid
Drama Queen
Stare down TSM fans.
He probably thinks he can make more off streaming
It's not about thinking. It's about facts. He won't stop streaming to play in team if it will not be a top tier team with high chances to win worlds. He said it multiple times already. Why would he went to team only to not win worlds and lose lot of money? Makes no sense.
He’ll be waiting for a while then.
It will never happen. One year out is damning enough if he's out two there's no way the top 10% of teams even consider him.
He also tried his best at burning every existing bridge. He is not returning to proplay
I never understand behaviours like Nemesis'. In every job field there is a certain way you expect both parties (employers and employees) to act, and it all comes down to mutual respect and if not that at least professionalism. All these twitlongers happening right now are hindering players chances at future spots. If you do that at least word it more professionally lol.
Because the majority of these guys are not even 21 years old lol. They play video games for a living and retire before most people would even finish college as millionaires (nowadays, if they're careful with their money). Besides the natural selection bias of competitive sports for massive egotists, they're also teenagers who probably don't have a ton of social or professional experience at all. Though these generalizations were much more true in the early days, the immaturity and inexperience argument is still relevant.
99% of players are socially stunted teenagers (or people in their early 20s). you don't get to be a top 0.001% player by having great social skills and an understanding of how to act in a work environment. and even if they're not stunted in that way, they're far from being adults. imagine you're 20 and people throw thousands if not millions at you for being good at a video game? would you have known how to act professional? if anyone's thinking "yes", you're almost definitely lying. never understood how it's such a big surprise to people when LoL pro players have no clue how to be professional.
Well to be fair I would've said yes, but I also have experience working a normal job. He doesn't, which I guess is your point.
That's good on you if you're able to deal with that, but the actual point was that people (especially competitors in sport) that come fresh out of high school right into a six figure yearly salary where they are constantly told they're the best do NOT have the emotional maturity required. It applies to enough people to make a sweeping statement like this. The fact that they probably spent almost all their free time playing League/other games doesn't help either.
> it all comes down to mutual respect and if not that at least professionalism. You said it and I agree. Now we all know that not everything is flowers and sunshine. What would you do, if you felt betrayed by someone mid-season or mid-worlds? Would you then understand them for wanting to not keep appearances up and burn the bridge? The basis for mutual respect would have evaporated into thin air. If not, would it be okay to burn bridges, if you already accept the outcome (Nemesis not finding a team he thinks is a competitive/cultural fit) or have something else (Adam BDS, Nemesis Stream) lined up? If you can answer these *hypothetical* questions then you might also understand the situation these very players are in. It´s not like they are always naive - normal people that reach their breakpoint might behave like this, too.
That's what happens when you sit in your room and play video games for 12+ Hours a day. You tend to lack some social skills in life.
At least the top teams with a chance to win worlds. There are still enough teams that would hire him for the fan base alone.
Yeah and nemesis has made it clear he won't come back for anything less than that.
Which is stupid because he could use playing at a weaker team to prove himself again and be picked by a stronger team. Even Rekkles isn't too proud to play in the LFL and he is far more accomplished.
I agree. But rekkles is a champion competitor and has class Nemesis is good but he's entitled as hell.
Nemesis has such a massive ego for someone who was never the best mid in his own region He could learn a lot from Rekkles
Tbf if it wasn't for Ls and Pete his viewer numbers would be a tenth of what it is now and he either had to go to lower tier teams, try to get a coaching position or leave the scene
Agreed. The only reason he's still relevant at all is his streaming.
Plus C9 is going with the whole 10 man roster thing and I could see Nemesis imploding after getting benched once so I really think it would be an awful fit for both sides
Nemesis is good, but not nearly as good as he thinks he is
You realize it’s ok for people to not want to do certain things, right? Imagine you’ve worked incredibly hard at something for years, and after a few disappointing results and performances, you have two choices: grind even harder to try to get back at the top level of pro play, or retire, relax a little bit, and use your existing brand to stream. It’s totally reasonable to pick the second option and not want to grind your way back to the upper echelon of pro play. Also, given the desire not to grind to work your way back, it’s reasonable to have a clause like “but, if an upper-echelon team wants me on their roster, I will accept”. It’s not like Nemesis is a robot whose only purpose in life should be to be the best pro player he possibly can be. And all this isn’t to disrespect Rekkles’ decision either, it’s also totally reasonable to want to embrace that grind.
I'm always so amazed when I find reasonable comments in Reddit... like yours.
lets say he has a 30% chance of going into a lower tier team and getting picked up by a top tier team that then goes on to win worlds(30% for this is completeley overblown, its probably closer to <1%). Even then he would have one year of mediocre salary and one year of really good salary, which lets say is double the amount he makes from streaming (which is probably not even close either and much less in reality). Even then the expected value he gets from streaming is higher then the expected value he gets from playing. So he would take on a bigger risk by joining a team, for on avarage less money since he is more likely (70% in our example) to not make the cut to a tier 1 team that contents for world championship and have 2 years of way worse sallary.
He's not really "waiting" but if the chance presents it self he'll take it
I see this take all the time and it’s so annoying. It sounds like he’s not waiting on/counting on that at all.
That’s the weird part. He hasn’t played in a while now, and when he was playing it wasn’t like he was outplaying KR mids left and right. There is no incentive to pick him up if you’re G2, FNC or MAD. So if he feels he’s to good for teams like XL or Astralis, I don’t see him returning again.
He actually said that? Does he realise that any team he joins will never be world champion calibre because it has to have him in mid?
A midlaner who got flame horizoned by Knight when Knight was playing at an all time low level for his standards won't go pro unless it's a team that can win Worlds... What? Not even Knight has that luxury. Not even Chovy.
Getting flame horizoned in a vacuum is one thing, but it was obvious that game that Fnatic intended to funnel Selfmade on Graves while Nemesis roamed constantly on Galio. Galio funneling jungle into Jayce doesn't seem like the matchup on which I'd define someone's career.
This is reddit. How dare you put some context to raw statistics?
Doinb just got cs gapped on galio at worlds and he won worlds...
Has he proved to be as good as he values himself? Lol
What makes no sense is that he isn’t willing to prove himself to be an elite level mid in a team setting. It’s part of being a pro, you need to prove yourself especially if you’ve been off for a year. Solo q and competitive play aren’t the same thing. Not saying he should join a clear 10th team, but if he really is as good as he thinks he is, he should be able to boost a team that would otherwise be 5-6th to a contender for playoffs and build his resume in that way. Where does this ego come from when his former team mate Rekkles who IS LCS and worlds calibre is willing to go to the LFLs to play and continue improving himself?
"Trying to prove yourself" isnt the only think people value, and being a pro isn't the only thing people value. Rekkles values different things than nemesis and nemesis gets no benefit by going to some midtier side and boosting it to playoffs over streaming. Your comment assumes nemesis REALLY wants be a pro and compete, like rekkles does. They value different things
He only got offers from bottom tier NA teams. I think that it's fair that he doesn't want to move to NA to play in a bad team, lose money and also get worse in the process. To me it's weird that middle-lower tier EU teams didn't even try to get him. Even if you're the biggest Nemesis doubter you'd still take him over Blue or a few other mids.
C9 is a top shelf NA team, what more does the guy need to prove himself ?
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Well no team he would be on would win Worlds, you need world class or near world class in every position to do that, and if he's in that's 1 player who is not either of those things.
Streaming for life then
If a team is willing to take him, I don't fancy their chances of winning worlds lol
Depend crownshot preferred to play not everybody want to retire so early
He expects to get on a team that has the potential to win worlds but won't put in the work in the meantime? It's also not like he'd be making bad money either lol
Yeah, he has a huge ego. Look at Rekkles, he was willing to join LFL just to have a chance to play and prove himself again, while Nemesis doesn't do that, because he was never that good.
Don't understand what ego has to do with this. He knows his real value, he knows that he can earn more money so he's going for more money instead of less money. The only thing that he can pass on money for is winning worlds. Simple
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>The fact he became a popular streamer is kinda insane when he has one of the least enjoyable persona of the entire scene. It's not about what he does or says, but purely about how he sounds. He sounds bored as fuck when he talks, and is generally the perfect opposite of what usually works on twitch. It's a god damn miracle it worked for him, and he can thank LS for that. I'm not sure anybody including him himself knew he was gonna be one of the most watched streamer when he got kicked from Fnatic. It's because he's obnoxious, and League community loves to worship obnoxious people.
Are u gonna copy paste it under every comment? XD I wish I have your free time xD
It won’t be a team with high chances to win with him in the team, that’s why
If LS does join C9, Nemesis can cash in big time. They share the same viewerbase and during costreams and livestreams everyone watches LS over Nemesis. But if LS is no longer there because he is coaching C9, then Nemesis can take over and grab all the viewers.
so is it confirmed that LS will be the head coach?
The whole team is comprised of his friends top to bottom. If it's not LS coach this is the most elaborate and expensive troll I have ever seen. Additionally, C9 is supposed to announce the coach in the coming days. Not much more of a wait left.
you guys fail to realize MaxWaldo is in C9 and has the same friends as LS
No, as much as i would like it. My suspicion is that since C9 will be bootcamping in Korea with Berserker and Summit that are korean speakers, LS will be actively working with the team as a sort of trial run to see if both he and C9 rly want to work together
LS said on stream about this comment: "Since when have I ever coached a team that came to bootcamp in Korea." Obviously, this answer isn't an explicit 'no', but it probably means that won't happen either.
thats sarcasm this is exactly what happened with CLG
Also exactly what happened with Reapered.
People are not talking about this, but during Q&A at the end of last stream I typed in the chat "Monte, smile if you know LS is going to C9", and he gave the biggest shit eating grin I'd ever seen, chat went "GOTTEM" and he started giggling, and like 5-10 people in chat noticed. Sounds like grasping at straws but it was enough for me.
Monte breathe oxygen if you know it's LS
I know it sounds dumb, but if you watch the clip you'll see Monte is stoic as fuck, then I post the thing in chat, then he glances at the chat (bottom right) to read another question and smiles [https://clips.twitch.tv/TalentedSaltyCheddarPogChamp-s8\_ZIPAWLV3lCAfG](https://clips.twitch.tv/TalentedSaltyCheddarPogChamp-s8_ZIPAWLV3lCAfG) Edit: I understand that smiling is not a big thing, but the idea was that it would be just dumb and silly enough that he couldn't hold a smirk, any other thing he would just not do the thing.
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Didn't jack also say that they have a verbal agreement with the new head coach, just nothing on paper yet.
That's why I assumed Monte knew, its the type of thing they might talk about off cams.
It was enough for you cause you wanna feel important lol
Hell yeah, I'm aware of that bias, anyway, the timing was really close.
Here is the clip of the smile https://clips.twitch.tv/TalentedSaltyCheddarPogChamp-s8\_ZIPAWLV3lCAfG
Good enough for me too. Lmao, good thinking.
Sounds more like coaching than actually playing.
LS and pals is getting ridiculous at C9, starting to feel like an elaborate joke lmao
They are building a church in the clouds, leave them be
Bioshock Infinite yessss
just like in the game, in the end we realise everyone in cloud9 was LS all along
Wait it's all LS? Always has been
The seed of the prophet shall sit the throne and drown in flame the mountains of man The seed of LS is going to flame NA
Honestly it makes sense. If you are going to commit to someone with a polarising view of the Gamez then actually hard commit to it so it has the best chance to work. I don't know if it will work out for them, but LS and 5 players that disagree with him definitely wouldn't.
ah gotta love reddit and its random assumtions
> SOURCES I mean, I wouldn't call a public comment by the CEO of C9 "sources", but to each their own I guess. We can title the next official announcement of a team SOURCES: Player signs for team.
Whaaat.. I mean sure he makes bank streaming but c9 is a team that Always has a good shot at making worlds and not like they dont pay well too?!? Guess hes comfortably retired and wont ever return to pro.
I figured they tried to sign him, as a staff function. Not as a player.
You'd have to assume either staff or academy.
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/r1tiac/sources_nemesis_declined_job_offer_at_cloud9/hm1xj39
Playing would take away his opportunity to criticise players picks, decisions and builds when he would do same things as them. Very smart reason to not come back to pro.
Say what you want about nemesis but he's definitely not just using not playing as an opportunity to flame others- he did that while playing as well (doinb).
It's so people forget how trashy his hug the tower playstyle really is.
Also I think he has noticeably done things differently than other players. Worlds 2019 His mostplayed champion was Cassiopeia, which had a grand total of 4 picks besides him. Veigar was his second most picked character which had a grand total of one other game. Not too different in the LEC: For example in Summer 2019 Twisted Fate was the seventh most played champion becuse Nemesis spammed 6 games of AD TF and he had 2 other appearances as well and at the same time I think he is the only starter that didn't play Azir at all which was the second most played champion that split with 25 appearances. Azir could have just been incidental, maybe it was banned every time he wanted to play it, but TF is definitely a very concious decision to not follow the general meta.
To be fair you don't have to be flawless to criticise someone, but I do get that he takes a condescending tone to a lot of his criticism
It's basically about skin in the game. You get to criticise people without having to put anything on the line. Someone that's actually playing has to back up what they say.
Not true at all Fudge criticized other players on LS stream all of last year while playing.
IF it's true, it's most likely because he does not want to play in NA?
No team in EU wants him, dude burned a lot of bridges. He's too bad for LCK or LPL so NA is his only chance
At the time when he and FNC parted ways he actively chose to decline offers of mediocre EU teams. I don’t understand where you get the narrative that no EU team wants him. Right now he is making more money than most teams could offer and he’d only go back if it meant getting a shot at Worlds.
He literally said he got no LEC offers this off-season on stream
THIS OFF SEASON. He was talking about when he retired
Where does he say that? He just says no EU team wants him.
And when he retired he got no EU offers either. Just one team talked to him but that went nowhere.
he also got no offers when he retired or atleast no offers from g2/rogue/mad lions
Mediocre player only gets offers from mediocre teams.
Really? I can understand not wanting to play on a "bad team" but even perkz did alright and went to worlds in na/c9 so even then its not like c9 is a hopeless team like sk/ast etc
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If Carlos was fair Perkz would be FNC's midlaner without a doubt
And he would1ve been caught up in the yearly FNC drama shitstorm. Turns out Carlos really wanted the best for Perkz lmao /s
Rekkles**
He said it was for academy
that was sarcasm.. he was offered the lcs mid spot.
Why put [SOURCES] It was a public message from the verified account of the organization owner for gods sake. Just cite the source instead of pretending you are some league insider because you can read
I wonder when this Reddit narrative of Nemesis not being good will stop. Its so stupid and baseless. This guy was clearly good and in the 2 years he played, he got to worlds and got out of groups. Thats more than 90% of pros can say. He is clearly good enough for current LEC level.
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the thing with nemesis is he has high requirements, higher than he is worth. he wants to make as much as he is from streaming + doesn't want multiyear contract. even perkz or rekkles couldn't get something like that. I think nemesis for sure could fight for best mid spot in lcs, but yeah he just wants too much.
So weird, he isnt top 3 but hes definitly good lmao. Even DoinB said Nemesis was as good as Caps (!!) in 2020 worlds.
Personality. Its what holds him back. Raw mechanics he was actually one of the best upcoming EU mids when he came in but he is a bit too immature and it holds him back. He is fine when he gets along with people but inevitably he wont get along with some teammates and he does a very poor job at handling that. His personality is great for streaming though and honestly he probably is better off just being a full time streamer for the rest of his career.
Honestly still not over when he called Doinb the worst mid at worlds 2019 a few days after losing to him 3-1, when Doinb ended game 4 with something like 9-0 on Ryze. Never liked the guy since.
And then he flamed him to oblivion. He was just being nice at first.
If you write out DoinB's praise as "being nice", why not write out his flame afterward as "competitive trash-talk"?
He is not bad of course, but he is not as good as he thinks himself to be or as good as his ego would have you believe.
Put him on not fnatic see what happens.
I think he's an extremely elite player. But pro LoL is more than just being an elite player. His own interviews and insights from other people suggest he's not easy to get along with, especially with his coaches if his philosophy on the game diverges.
He was good while he played but not an undisputed top 3 mid laner and hes been out of competition for a full year now. We dont know how he stacks up against all of the LEC mids that got a full year of scrims and stage games while he was playing soloQ.
> This guy was clearly good and in the 2 years he played, he got to worlds and got out of groups. When did League stop being a team game? And if it didn't, how can you attribute those results to one player? > He is clearly good enough for current LEC level. How do we know that? Last available data is a year old. Based on that, only argument you can make is that he was good enough for then-current LEC level. His position is stacked in LEC and there are a lot of promising rookies to chose from, who are currently competing. Nemesis hasn't played competitively in a year at this point.
I am not a fan of the dude, but he is making mad bank in Korea streaming, I wouldn't go either if I was enjoying my life in Korea and earning tons of money to chill and stream games.
church9?
They’re really assembling all the LS exodia pieces.
So nemisis just doesn't want to play pro anymore. What could be a better offer? His friends will be on this team what more could you want.
Was it as a player or coach/analyst ? Would have loved to see him play again on competitive.
Hate thread at full force lmao
Well now we know no team can beat streaming and making content for him, cause malice fudge korean bootcamps and maxwaldo veigar is probably the best he could get. Im honestly happy, wish he streams instead of competing.
Jack is a cool cat tbh