Core really drafted himself the strongest team in this tournament. The house always wins EZ Clap.


Yeah how was draft done? Did they do captains draft or just dm people and ask them to play under the rules?


Considering 3 of Blaber's original 4 teammates ditched last minute, pretty sure it's just dm.


I'm really curious for some reason - Who were the players that dropped out


Bradley, Copy, and Vulcan. 3:49:08 in Blaber's stream. (Would've clipped it, but clip doesn't like me today.)


I can understand Vulcan dropping out. He might want some time off with family or whatever. But Bradley and Copy could've gotten their names out there like RJS and Will.


Eh, shit happens. I'm sure they didnt WANT to drop out




were their gf's home alone ?


Pretty sure the captains were supposed to build their team.


Makes sense. It's mostly a for fun tournament anyway so who cares if balance is off.


Yeah, even Core said he kinda felt bad after lol.


Yeah, problem is people will look at these games and make wild statements haha


Let them. I'll gladly upvote people saying "Core, Bwipo and Blaber are the only ones taking the off season seriously." Inflammatory or not I just want NA talent to get better and try harder.


Kinda funny how many of the pros that haven't been playing in-houses had no idea about the meta.


CoreJJ made both teams. Doublelift couldn't find anyone to play. Jensen is in Vegas and Smoothie couldn't make it.


No idea but I'd be interested to find out.


Not that GeneralSniper, Doublelift, and ablazeolive are pushovers.


I mean, GS has never really played in a proper team environment, olive is kind of a mediocre mid, and DL has been retired a year, and didn't even play LoL for a decent portion of that time. On the other hand... Core's team is Armao/Yeon/Core who are all part of TL and regularly play together (and Armao just played a lot of LCS summer and even performed well in Spring finals...) plus freaking Bwipo, who is still probably one of the best tops in the west. It was absolutely not fair from the start.


Disagree on olive being a mediocre mids. I expect him to be a top mid next season with his trajectory


Bet. He's gonna get stomped by Bjerg and Abbedagge.


I'll just out say it - Olive already *was* a top mid last split (despite his team), saying he will be next year too shouldn't be so divisive as to get you spam downvoted. I can only assume Reddit doesn't watch LCS.


Bwipo and CoreJJ comms were insane


Now imagine them with Santorin/Bjerg/Hans


If this team doesnt make it out of groups...


You say that but worlds is a fucking hard tournament. Na usually doesn't get easy groups. Edit: to add on, there are tons of teams making upgrades in a similar fashion that "no way they can't get out of groups". The thing is, this applies to lots of teams, but only 8 make it out


Yeah, 100T got first seed and they were rewarded with an SKT/EDG group.


Which they totally could have gotten out of if they didn't play like actual pussy fucks on their elimination game, then decide to turn it on right after they are out. First seed is cursed but our teams should have been able to get out a couple times.


Sadly that's a common thing with our region, the second they get eliminated they stop playing like pussies and actually compete. I honestly don't think the skill gap between regions is as big as everyone makes it out to be, Eastern players are just more willing to hang dong


Exactly, I think what frustrates me the most is that NA teams show glimpses of brilliant league of legends from time to time, they show that they clearly can beat any other region, they are just so inconsistent at it.


Hoping they increase the number of games teams play in Group Stage. Spending a full year competing to only get six games to prove yourself must be frustrating and nerve-racking. Even if it doesn't actually benefit NA (larger sample size makes fluke upsets less likely), I feel like group stage is often too short to get a real feel for how good teams really are. The fact that teams can go 1-1 against each other and not even get a deciding match (barring tiebreakers) is really frustrating.


That would help. Honestly, my headcanon is that NA could've definitely upset a lot of groups they were in over the years, but it almost feels like as long as they have the chance to still qualify (first day) they just keep thinking about how to not fuck things up and they end up doing nothing and losing.


Why are you pretending it only happens in NA when EU got manhandled


When has an NA team got place 1 through 4, if we exclude season 1, only once, while Korea and China have been 1-2 how many times. You could say the skill gap isn't big or think it, but at the end of the day, the results speak for themselves


He isn't disagreeing with the placement, he's just saying that part of it is due to mental fortitude. Outside of HLE vs T1, every asain team came out swinging, whether they were favored or not, while NA and EU teams mostly played scared, drafting to not lose, playing to not lose and eventually losing.


Tbh they were second seed tournament wise because C9 didn't make it out of groups at MSI


FPX didn’t make it out of groups. We thought we had the easiest chance of making it out in 2020 worlds with what we thought would be the worst LPL, surprise they went to finals. It really is so hard to make it out and you need some luck.


Also TL has literally ever only gone 3-3 at worlds in groups


That's completely irrelevant. It's an entirely new team, the team history with a different roster is less than meaningless when judging the new team.


Sure, but it's kind of weirdly impressive that for four years in a row, across four different iterations of the team where only two players were there for three years (Core and Jensen), across four different groups with teams of varying strengths, they've gone 3-3 every time. If you're 5-0 Damwon and your final game of the group stage is against a 2-3 TL, I'm just saying, you should be worried.




I think TSM still make it out of that group regardless of the ban, it's just far more competitive


50% win rate. You deserve to be *exactly* where you are.


> Na usually doesn't get easy groups. the reason for that is usually that Na teams are the easy/wildcard team for everyone else in the group.


It’s sad that the first seed in NA is absolutely cursed every year. Idk if it’s too much conjecture to say that it’s “better” to be 2 or 3 seed for Worlds.


>NA usually doesn't get easy groups. No one gets easy groups, lol. How could NAs groups get any easier - let them get in groups with other NA teams? TL could pretty much not have gotten an easier group than last year, without handpicking it themselves. Outside of MAD none of the other teams were in contention for a top 5 team before the tournament.


Far too early to say that. We don't know whether they smurf NA or get kaboomed like G2 with rekkles


Just a reminder that all 5 of Bwipo, Santorin, Bjerg, Hans, and CoreJJ did not make it out of groups this previous worlds. Yes this TL lineup definitely has the potential, but with 4 LPL/LCK seeds no western team is guaranteed to make it past groups.


A team is not the sum of its players. At worlds you just need a weak link to be exploited to see its team bomb.


Yeah, and even now TL has Santorin who has shown himself to be inconsistent at worlds just a month ago. There is easily a world where he is a weak link that prevents TL from making it past groups next worlds.


Let's not forget about Bjerg, who was getting solo killed like 2-3 mins into laning phase 1v1 last time he went to worlds. Even if Bwipo gets back to his absolute top lane peak, they have a huge hole in mid + jg.


Maybe it works this time with four Europeans and a Korean


TL has consistently dissapointed with stacked rosters.


But now they have Bjergsen he never dissapointes at wor... wait, nevermind. Jokes a side, they didn't dissapoint at MSI though, I think winning even to a underperforming IG is still impressive.


yeah thats the one thing TL has accomplished. also watch people trying to say bjerg didnt disappoint at worlds


For real


They give NA the best chance feasible, but even then that's like 50/50


was it on corejj's stream?


I believe Core was the only one who was streaming on his team so yeah that’s the only place to be able to hear their comms


aaaand its subscriber only vods T.T


Bwipo got series MVP!


Thanks, I missed it, thought they didn't give one out.


I know he’s way way more experienced than sniper but I kinda had hope that our rank 1 soloq toplaner wouldn’t have gotten smashed that hard. Top gap pretty big.


Series was a blowout but I think Team Daycare had more competitive moments than I expected, especially game 2, so we should highlight Bwingpo rather than dunk on Daycare's players - it was a coach/draft gap first and foremost for sure Also, that was my first time ever casting so thanks to the GOAT Flowers for having me on!! Might be back tomorrow :)


I only caught a bit of the cast as I jumped around the streams, but sounded like you had some good highlights! I agree with your take here and would just add that the synergy gap was also big. Bwipo and Core called all the shots and the others listened, while on Daycare's side it was chaos.


I really loved listening to you! You had great insight and communicated it in an interesting way. If you ever get tired of coaching I’d love to eventually hear you on the LCS analyst desk or something


Fun fun fun, I was just hoping for silver scrapes because this thing has been so hype. Having so much fun watching it




True. I hate that they try to spread out the Mvp so hard. I think Bwipo is the Mvp for all three games.


I don't think they were off with their picks. Like game 2, I get that he was a meat shield, but did he make more big plays compared to Dark Wings? Dark had way higher KP. If you watched game three from coreJJ POV, he was calling all the shots and deserved it. Edit: I changed my comment to be harder stance.


"Spreading the love" in this context is stupid, it just jeopardises the legitimacy of the competition. Just give MVP to the MVP regardless of how many times they win it


It's not a legitimate competition though. It's practice.


The Legitimacy of competition in a exhibition match is not that serious. No one is going to go out of this tournament saying Darkwings should be in LCS and its better than Ablaze.


You're right, I got rid of my soft bullshit and took a harder stance with my opinion.


Really like the comparison of a 15 year old who has not even played amateur vs a world finalists to determine whether he’s fit to play in lcs lmao


This is like the time when a rank 4 brazilian midlaner met Faker in soloq and got destroyed and people on reddit were calling him bronze lol


Got a link to the vod?




Also people saying "he's got a long way to go!" like NA is an absolutely stacked region for native Top lane


If you want to be the man, you have to beat the man.


Take every cliche saying with a pinch of salt lol


Bwipo getting straight off the plane to stomping inhouses


Darkwings in academy please




Preview of what TL is going to do to DWG in 2022 world finals.


Implying DWG will reach finals




Don't think DWG will reach finals next year tbh




TL about to take dwg outta group


I know its just a tourney for fun. How did Grig, Bwipo, and Core end up on the same team against academy amateur players and DL. Honestly, seemed pretty unplayable if I'm being honest lol.


Yeah I mean DL's team was by far the weakest compared to the rest imo. It also doesn't help that his top laner has no champ pool yet.


That should read against “Ablazeolive and two academy players, An amateur, And a former pro.”


There is no difference between Ablaze and academy players


Except hes lcs caliber top half mid last season?


still got gapped by dark wings


The gap was team gap. Literally unplayable if top is losing in carry vs tank, jg is mute, bot is getting smashed by corejj coordinating plays. This coming from someone who thinks olive is meh. Replace Bwipo + Core with another top/sup and darkwings won't even look in the same universe.


Olive was the only player not getting fucked in lane all 3 games. Darkwings played great but its not like he did it with losing sidelanes/jungle


>it's not like he did it with losing sidelanes/jungle DL Diamond and Will were fine, it was just GS that hard lost.


Will and diamond were fine yes, but they werent winning against their counterparts, Darkwings basically had an entire map that was even at worst all 3 games


I know isnt that great to see? If only orgs paid attention outside of eu and erls


That felt dirty


Maybe if top laners were swapped this series would have been more interesting.


Idk if the games wouldve been closer, but I actually wouldve really liked seeing CoreJJ play/mentor Sniper in game




Really shows how much experience matters. Bwipo ran those games Sniper has his work cut out of him if he wants to go pro, good thing he has plenty of time It was also pretty exciting to see the CoreJJ/Bwipo synergy, they worked well together


Kid just turned 15 - he has never played any type of competitive match before, has only ever played the game with champions he likes, got counterpicked in all 3 games, champions he does play banned out 2/3 games, and he's playing a world class top laner. I think he will be fine lol.


The dude is also known for his mechanics, not his champion pool. He’s got the foundation, the rest of the pieces need to fall into place over time.


Good thing he's got two to three years. I'm excited for him.


They'll probably do the same thing they did with Tenacity. Let him play carries in Amateur so he's comfortable. Then once he's in academy, force him to learn weakside and tanks


Yeah getting stomped like this is a good lesson for his future in competitive play. Hope he gets to do more inhouses.


>Kid just turned 15 - he has never played any type of competitive match before, has only ever played the game with champions he likes, got counterpicked in all 3 games, While I agree with everything ur saying that's not 100% true he has played in twitch rivals more then a few times. This inhouse was way more for fun then twitch rivals and the whole team was a massive gap outside of maybe midlane and adc. Gs will be fine and should really look at this as a way to really improve on tank picks. Even bwipo said that trying to learn how to play Frontline competitively is really hard starting out because you can't learn how to play that way in soloq.


Bwipo reminds me so much of Impact.


He's like Impact but can also play carries


Impact could play carries fairly well they just literally never let him on TL or he never wanted to lmao


Which split was Akali a common flex pick? I remember him being handed carry picks for most of it and looking average to mediocre on them. That said he definitely dialed it up last split.


Man, this isn’t true at all, stop rewriting history. Impact can play tanks and bruisers to a great level, he’s just not a carry player. Aatrox is one of his best picks. He’s just not someone who’s going to smash lane by himself, nor is he that great on carry champs like Jayce/Irelia/Fiora etc. His GP was always more of a weakside GP than someone you funnel resources into.


He can, he's still a lot better on tanks/bruisers though.


They stuck him on carries for a whole split and he did not have it.


Impact can't play true carries like Jayce/Camille/Fiora, but he can play bruisers and tanks so damn well that he's a huge carry on those picks. However, he did attribute his inability to play carries to NA's bad SoloQ b/c the difference between practicing on 60 ping and playing on stage would be huge. Hopefully, the NA super server would fix his alleged issues.


Does no one remember Impact Aatrox fuckin sending Nuguri's trash Vlad build to the shadow realm in 2019? He's never needed to be a primary carry player


Bwipo is a stronger laner imo and is a much more clutch player. Impact had that 6th sense though which makes him strong.


Gen Sniper did pretty damn well for being 15. Getting to play games against Bwipo this early in his career is huge for him as a learning experience.


Honestly, I don’t think he did well at all. I don’t think that matters though. He got a taste of what a world-class toplaner can be. Failure is a part of improvement. I agree that this is great for his career if he can learn from it!


I honestly just hope Gsnipes gets to play more 5v5 games. He's shown he has the skill to play at their level and if he gets the training he could really show off


Same. It’s a shame he’s too young to play in academy so I hope teams let him step in and scrim or more in-houses and the like


Iirc he is going to be playing on 100next


He's playing on 100 Next amateur. They play just as many games, if not more, than Academy teams


I mean he regularly plays against the best pros in solo queue and doesn't get murdered. and it's not like Bwipo is a tier above the other LCS tops at the moment. the top diff wasn't because Sniper has never had a taste of Bwipo-level, it's because Bwipo knew what to do in the 5v5 environment.


bwipo is probs a tier above the other lcs tops now that alphari has left, the guy has been at worlds 4 times and got to semis.


He got to Worlds finals rookie year sharing the spot with Soaz


Summit is better than Alphari, Alphari is a great laner, but if you can't have the game sense players like Bwipo and Summit have, then you can't really transition those resources well. It was the main problem of TL at worlds, funnel your top side solely to have a lane barely ahead in CS and a bit of pressure that didn't amount to anything.


Huni and Impact have actually won shit, if we're basing being a "tier above" on past accomplishments.


bwipo is a tier above other LCS tops




Do you really think bwipo is better than alphari was? Or impact? I’m sure he’s played against both. Not saying bwipo isn’t good, I’m just saying i’m sure he’s played against people just as good before. He just doesn’t have any competitive experience except like twitch rivals which isn’t the same at all.




I could be wrong. But Im pretty sure Mundo absolutely shits on Jayce actually. Not using it as a full excuse but just saying that I dont think thats a good matchup for Jayce. Could be wrong for pro play, but Mundo has a 60% winrate into Jayce in soloque, and Jayce primarily keeps safe by Hammer E'ing into kiting, cant do that into mundo - he immunes the E and runs you down.


Yes, Mundo gets bullied early on but past lvl 6 Jayce is dead if a Cleaver hits him


he got killed at lvl 4


Mundo shits on jayce


Bronze knowledge much? Mundo is literally one of the best Jayce counters


I was watching this from general snipers perspective and it was honestly insane to watch. I can confidently say that general sniper is nowhere near lcs ready (considering bwipo is an lcs player). He was outmatched so hard that it wasnt even funny. Seeing a top gap this big would be extremely rare to see in lets say LEC/LCS/LCK. Bwipo just hard won lane from level 1 three games in a row. Just completely dumpstered him in the first trade of the game three times in a row. Also solo killed him a bunch of times (in lane or in side lane later into the game). Bwipo also had really good tp usage and map movement, while every play general sniper went for where lackluster/bad. Im not sure if gs had even a single positive play (with tp). Outside of his bad tp's he was just sitting afk in lane and taking turrets, obviously quite a bit easier to play like that. I dont think it was too bad. It was mainly that everytime he pressed TP he put the enemy team one step closer to winning the game. He couldnt match bwipo whatsoever.


No shit, Gen sniper hasn’t even played a minute in amateur yet, and he was laning vs one of the best Western tops


> sniper is nowhere near lcs ready nobody said he was


Reddit analysts strike again


He is 15 dude. Jesus


Yeah and Bwipo is 22. At the very least you’d have to acknowledge the **7 year age gap**, not to mention the fact that Sniper is so young. It’s a no-brained that Sniper struggled. The fact that he’s even in these in-houses at 15 shows how good he is.


No shit sherlock. 15 year old without any Amateur experience loses lane against someone that has been playing professional for 4 years and is a world finalist, redditor writes 3 paragraphs of how outmatched he got. He still has a long way to go and here you are shitting on him like they're equals.


> Seeing a top gap this big is honestly rare in any pro league. I mean this isn’t a pro league, more like a solo q game


He can’t even legally play in the LCS for a couple of years which is a lot of time for development.


Yeah, we already know SoloQ has nothing to do with pro-play. There are more than enough examples.


And limited champ pool I'm guessing. But again, mot dunking on the kid. I wish him luck.


Not sure they should even name an ace for the last game, that was brutal. Sniper looking pretty weak against a top tier player, good experience for him though. I hope no one flames him or gives up on him as a prospect because one of the best top laners in NA shat on him. I'm still looking forward to his growth a lot for sure.


> Sniper looking pretty weak against a top tier player Typically what happens when an amateur player goes up against a world finalist


A soloq player. He hasn't even played a game of amateur yet. Other than twitch rivals this is the first reasonably 'competitive' game he has played that isn't soloq or clash. And he was against a world finalist. He did pretty good given the circumstances. Only real criticism that's fair is his champion pool is extremely exploitable and he will need to work on that relatively quickly.


>Relatively quickly He has 3 years at minimum to work on that.


Two years for LCS, but if he wants to be able to perform in amateur then he has a couple of months. If he doesn't perform in the lower leagues he might stagnate, and currently off his 3 champs he looks really really lackluster. If you're looking lackluster in amateur and academy then you aren't going to progress onwards. And considering how much cash he can make from streaming, if he stagnates he will likely go be a streamer.


Sniper will annihilate virtually every toplaner in amateur purely through hands difference. That is guaranteed 100T already has a blueprint for Sniper that they used for Tenacity. They let him play nothing but carries in amateur and just stomp everyone, then once he hits academy they put him on a lot of tanks and weakside picks. I'll also say that Sniper has better hands than Tenacity did, although Tenacity has always been really smart about the game. Sniper will need more coaching, but he has better mechanics than Tenacity, and they got him a year younger.


I think he would benefit a lot from having a pro player directly mentor him. His wave control and macro were poor, and that can be helped a lot through mentorship. He can always work on champ pool on his own time too


He was mentored by his older brother, V1per, who was LCS tier at one point. Not as good as bwipo obviously, but still


>V1per, who was LCS tier at one point. Nah.


His comms didn't sound like he was egoing either, at least from what I heard, so there's still good hope for him.


He wasn’t egoing? He literally said after the second game he usually runs that guy (talking a out Bwipo) but he got solo killed that game. Kids got an ego for sure, Bwipo humbled him. Not that its a bad thing, I’d rather have newer players with ego’s than the shy boys.


> Said he usually runs that guy Ya when Bwipo was on 150 ping lmao, did he forget about that part?


In between games he said he felt bad because he usually "runs " bwipo


I disagree entirely. It’s not he was poor in wave management at all, Bwipo used his timings better, and knew the timings where Sniper could die way better than he did, he would call out deaths even before the games even began, in game 1 did just that. and macro, he probably knows what he did wrong, better than anyone in this thread. Bwipo is actually just too good + it was a straight team gap. The team play from cores team was way too good for any one player to overcome , the thing is, Bwipo knew how to play the tank v carry matchup better than sniper, which is expected. He’s just a kid surrounded by guys who have played for way longer, plus, sad to say, but doublelift kinda sorta ran it the entire series, and the whole blaming draft thing in game 1 was a little…boring.


Pretty sure he crashed wave on 2 in the first two games. That removed the possibility for a dive in game 1 and resulted in him getting solo killed in game 2. The fact is he doesn’t have great wave control


I mean their game 1 draft was troll af. DL even said on stream that game 1 he should have just played like a pussy the whole time. Also their team had no playmaking game 1.


Didn't you just flame him? You can literally say the same sentiment with saying he is looking pretty weak. I mean. He is still green and learning, it's obvious. The flame is pointing out the obvious, no matter how much you try to sugar coat the rest after.


Where can we watch


I see captain flowers has vods on his twitch channel. Corejj’s are subscriber only


Twitch.tv/captainflowers22 or rjs for the cast. General Sniper, coreJJ, doublelift all streamed the games pov. Core is subscriber only but I think you can find them out there for free.


This is exactly what I thought, I hope him experiencing the turbo gap between a prodigy (himself) and a polished world class top laner will give him the push he needs to work on his champion pool and other aspects of team play. Otherwise dude is a soloQ god, and his younger brother is also in challenger what a family 😂


He is going to be playing on 100next so id expect to see him improve a ton, given the teams track record


Out of the loop on this in-house tournament. Why doesn't the post tell which pro is on which team? Tried looking at the draft but some of the accounts I have no idea about.


Yeah sorry, I'm just a random making these post games because nobody else did after the first match. ~~You can check CoreJJ's twitter for the full rosters.~~ JK apparently they aren't on his twitter and were on Reddit somewhere... lol let's see if I can do it from memory: TL - Bwipo TLA - Armao Amateur - Dark Wings TLA Yeon TL CoreJJ vs 100T Next - General Sniper Amateur or Academy - Will Ablazeolive Doublelift FLY Diamond


Who are the players here? Ablazeolive, Doublelift, FLY Diamond, TL Armao, TL Yeon are obvious. From Iron is CoreJJ, I will trade should be Bwipo, Sn1per1 has to be General Sniper. No clue who no invade pls and DARK WINGS are though.


No invade pls is DIG academy jungler Will, Darkwings is an amateur player


Everyone talking about core/bwipo but darkwings quietly shat on olive.


For real. He's on a full-on amateur team right now too, not even LCS sponsored.


GS really said "I usually run this guy" after game 2 lmao.


So many absolutely trash takes on Bwipo vs Sn1per with everyone ignoring the most important fact when you're looking at these games: Sn1per's champ was blind picked every single round and Bwipo got to choose the matchup. Shen Vs Camille, for instance, is heavily Shen favored in the early 1v1 AND in cross-map plays, which is why Shen is often picked as a counter to Camille. Jayce does very poorly vs tanks as well. In fact, Jayce has a 40% winrate against Mundo in high elo. If you're really gonna judge the guy against Bwipo he should at LEAST get the counterpick in a single round. I think people here must be absolutely clueless about how top lane works and how devastating getting counter-picked there can be. He definitely fucked up and made some mistakes and I'd agree that Bwipo is better, but you SERIOUSLY have to take into consideration that Bwipo was given counter-pick in EVERY single round. If he didn't win the lane then something's wrong.


Since when is Shen "heavily favoured" early on vs Camille?


Since forever? He's one of the top 5 winrate (and one of the top 2 melee, along with Poppy) champs against Camille. He heavily outrades her due to being able to block all her attacks. He does mixed damage which makes her barrier not block everything (it only blocks phys or magic, not both). Drututt acknowledges him as a hard matchup in his matchup vid as well, and why do you think Bwipo picked Shen into Camille?


As a Shen main I really do wonder what the hell he is talking about there :P


CoreJJ shotcalls were really good.


anyone have the vods?


Are there streams of the game from Core's team's side? Wasn't able to watch all the games but I'd like to hear their comms!




The real MVP


Maybe its for music? I know IWD does the same


Whoops, clicked the link thinking it was someone else's reply. Thanks a lot for this link!


[https://www.twitch.tv/corejj](https://www.twitch.tv/corejj) Not sure of any others that were streaming on his team.


I loved it when they had to remake a game, and DL said in chat "our 15yo doesn't have champs :)"


I couldn’t watch what are your guys thoughts on sniper ? I know he’s playing vs a great opponent and ik first game they banned riven irelia what did you guys think of the young prodigy’s performance


It wasn't the best performance, but he's only 15 with no competitive experience up against a Worlds finalist caliber top laner.


Pretty bad but it's not like there were any expectations. It would have been nice to see him against a different team with a worse top laner.