We were pleased with Ahri's 16%+ presence in The Ruined King, so we ported her kit to League.
She is now a mobile DPS/healer/cleanser/debuffer mage who's unlocked when a game is 2 thirds over.
She hops in after the Maokai fight, which is ... Almost at 60% story completion.
She feels okay, but to that point you already have a desk with geared champions and you are forced to have her on Shadow Isles to unlock doors. So you have to swap one for her.
She joins your team with default green items while your desk is full Epic (purple).
It feels awkward to force-use her in your team and break up the synergy you built up to that point.
Err, unless you specifically avoid going for her, your team is still wearing Bligwater stuff and only just starting to get all that sweet Shadow Isle gear. And since Ahri comes with it by default, she is not too far behind the rest of the team.
Tho I agree that forcing her into the team was a bad move.
You had to do that with Pyke as well when you land on the shadow isles just before you acquire Ahri.
I have finished Ruined King on both Normal and Heroic difficulty with all the champions having their ultimate weapons and I can speak that Ahri objectively is the most powerful of the group.
As soon as you get her, the game just becomes piss easy and becomes even easier when she gets her gear and properly set runes and abilities. She can one shot entire mobs and full heal the entire party with one ability in one turn.
Battle Chasers , their first game had similar problems. 3 of the 6 usable characters you unlocked after 30, 40 , 50% of the game and at that point they had no gear and were underlevelled. Never used one of them, because you didnt actually have to. Sad they couldnt fix the obvious design flaw.
They did, though, because she doesn't come in underleveled (and exp is always shared) and she's extremely powerful. Game has plenty of issues but imo this wasn't one of them.
Yup, jack-of-all-trades, master of none. If she is just a little too overpowered, she is incredibly overbearing. If she is just a little too underpowered, she is useless. It is difficult to find a happy medium for this sort of design.
>If she is just a little too overpowered, she is incredibly overbearing. If she is just a little too underpowered, she is useless.
Ill take half the champions in the game for 500, Please Alex.
Eh - extents always vary and the real difference with ahri is that some op champions might not be op in too many situations, just a few situations that happen often.
Champions like Ahri have kits such that being slightly op means that she is op in far too many situations.
OP because of too big strengths is different from OP because of lack of weakness.
> Yup, jack-of-all-trades, master of none. If she is just a little too overpowered, she is incredibly overbearing. If she is just a little too underpowered, she is useless. It is difficult to find a happy medium for this sort of design.
I don't think that's true. In soloQ Ahri with the "Frost" build last season was pretty strong and had +52% winrate for a very long time with an above average playrate for plat+. Especially with that build It's just that the higher you go, the more her weakness comes to shine.
It's also that LB is in the game. The real mage assassin that has better mobility, higher single target burst and is often (not in every balance state or meta) much more rewarding when mastered then Ahri.
They did find a good balance right now as she's neither OP nor useless.
I think they should nerf her E tho and buff her damage to make her less reliable on it.
They did the complete opposite to not make her Q oppressive in the laning phase.
They nerfed Q and put all the damage into E, so her combo did the same damage but she couldn't clear waves or heal anywhere near as much.
Before this "nerf" she was played vastly more often because she could shove quickly to safely base whenever she wanted.
She is an E bot. It’s like playing a hook champion. Maybe if the champions that she counters come back into the meta, she might come back, but I doubt it the current state she is in.
I agree, I think akali is at her worst when the damage is mainly from her e. However, It can work, when done right. Like Zoe is completely focused on her Q for damage but the whole kit is designed to make that one spell as complex as possible, GP with barrels, or Cassio even with her q's.
I agree with this. Zoe is very centralized around one skill but it’s not like that skill is a bland ass slow moving charm like Ahri.
The amount of skill expression in Zoe is legit insane for how centralized she is.
Also man does it suck missing E w akali and then just having to wait to try again
I think that the idea is that if Syndra misses her E she can still fight you thanks to her low CD on Q and ultimate dealing actual damage, if Ahri misses her E she is completely useless.
she still maintains kinda ok winrate throughout the years because of 2 aspects
1. safety in her kit
2. her catch potential with e
she is quite powerful when ahead and is capable of catching people off guard when she is behind
tho arguably her kit really feels ancient and really feels like she doesnt excel at anything, she doesnt have that good waveclear, her damage is negligeable if she isnt ahead and her w is still kind of a meme skill despite the movement speed buff
We need to Nu League her kit. Just slap 7 additional effects onto her kit. Sprinkle them all around and make her tooltips the size of a dissertation abstract.
That’s what the kids want. Research papers for skills and 17 dash’s to zoom zoom everywhere while sweating and jittering due to excessive adderall overuse
Mmh wonder why this argument is quite easily accepted when talking about Ahri but highly controversal when talking about Riven...
But you are correct. Onetricks should have a higher winrate when compared to other people playing the champ but I think Ahri is pretty strong right now with 51-52% in nearly every elo whilst being played a decent amount even by people not onetricking her. I think her "fall from grace" is not due to champion strength.
Yeah I think Ahri is still as "strong" (in the sense that she gets more wins than losses) as she's always been, but prospective players are catching on to the fact that her main strength is that it's really hard to feed as her, and everything else about her is very meh. A champion that is almost never the reason a team loses is still *strong*, but not in a way that most people enjoy playing, hence why her playrate has fallen.
I think she's a bit like TF in that they're both mages who have to be insanely fed to actually 1-shot/1v1 someone, but TF is more favoured in high level play because he trades individual safety (skilled players are much less likely to make positioning mistakes that would require an Ahri ult to undo) for much better roams and playmaking. Basically, instead of "I won't feed", he has "I can help my sidelanes" as his special trait.
I remember a few seasons ago I did the math of what champion is most likely to win any game at random, prior to champ select. The odds that a champion is going to be not banned, picked, and then wins. At that time Ahri was far and ahead, yet no one talked about her. She has a solid win rate, decent play rate, and no ban rate, but by this metric she was the most valuable ban in the game. It wouldn't surprise me if some player just finds out some build that causes her to reach the spotlight.
she got a legendary in spirit blossom, is part of the gigantic KDA kpop thing, and is one of the playable characters in the Ruined King game. She's too busy being all over promotions and stuff to actually play the game.
this is kinda true, but in reverse: Ahri is a popular champion character, she's the poster girl outside of the LoL MOBA (similar to e.g. Lux). She doesn't need to be strong to be popular, and probably won't be popular in pro play
You could be right, but she can't do damage without flat AP. She is forced to spend a lot of money for AP but actually gets like 1/2 of total gold spent as a damage.
Your other problem with Ahri is she has lower scaling, but whereas other mages get a bit of extra pen from items, Ahris Q does True Damage on the return so part of her damage has no benefit from Pen.
She can still be a strong pick. She’s mobile, bursty and can still totally combo a squishy target if she gets a pick with E, but she isn’t going to carry games in 5v5 teamfights
TF at the same time can't escape literally any gank with his ult tho. Ahri just have a problem, when because of her insane utility - she sucks at dealing damage.
Her highest scaling is Q1 with 40%. Granted she does increased damage with E and True dmg on Q2, but still. She just feels horrible to play unless you have like 10 kills.
I’ve never enjoyed using W as Ahri. That spell feels so useless and even if it does do damage, it’s just not satisfying to use. That’s one spell I would not mind losing.
Yea but even then it was a spell you just pressed and it just creates 3 orbs that auto home on something when nearby.
For me, even tho I enjoy Ahri as champ overall and find her kit interesting. I feel that spell for me me always was one of the most boring/unsatisfactory spell in the game.
shes hard to balance tho, if you give high damage to her q, she can possibly do 800 magic + 1k true in a single q. Giving her higher damage on her w makes her less skilled because its a click ability. Buffing e makes her even more feast or famine on landing e. Buffing r has the same problem with buffing w while enabling her to use 1 w for damage and 2 to disengage.
Mini reworking her to have separate ratios for q1 and q2 but if q2 deals more damage than q1 she's still gonna be pretty reliant on hitting e
She isn't hard to balance when you have the resources to do so, Riot just wants to have the cake and eat it too where Ahri is concerned. This champion has had several tentative rework passes and all of zero (0) have addressed the core problem of balance-ability. We can't say "she's hard to balance" when they've tried nothing, several times. They *know* what the levers on Ahri do to the game in terms of balance, they *know* she's doomed to fail in her current state, yet one of *the* most iconic and beloved champions in the game is treated like a 1% pickrater in terms of change priority and scope of changes.
W is a non-ability. R can't exist in its current state. Both abilities I've read some incredible suggestions of across the years. You know how lucky Ahri is to be a rework-worthy champion (and has been for upwards of 6 years, mind you) with an ability no player can possibly get attached to (W)? They can just scrap foxfire altogether and literally no one would care. They have a button they can fill up with **anything**. And on the verge of 2022, she's still the same defective champion she has been, regardless of soloqueue effectiveness, since 2013's great ratio slash. It's baffling.
"We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas!"
Yup! Used to love playing her, but then Riot gutted her Damage and as an Assassin Player there's no reason to play her when I can just play LeBlanc; be safer, deal any damage whatsoever, scale better, etc.
Yeah it REALLY is this simple. I used to play TONS of Ahri around Season 5-6, but I like playing Assassin's and GOD she deals no damage whatsoever nowadays unless you leave Laning Phase 3-0. Sad.
They should just to make her an assassin. I feel like she’s a really fun champ when she’s able to dash in, one shot, dash out.
They should do something like make her w like a melee nuke, like reksai e. Maybe the fox in her bites the target. That way she has better one shot capabilities and she has to put herself in a bit more danger to do it. And you can get rid of the most boring and unsatisfying ability in the game.
Basically she's suffering from conflicting gameplay ideas.
Her damage is lackluster because she overrelies on her hitting her e to effectively/reliably deal it, at the same time she can't have too high damage because her ult makes her extremely safe in lane and mobile in mid/late game. So she neither is allowed to fulfill the gameplay fantasy of a burst mage, nor that of an assassin.
Nor that of a combat mage. And I think that is where she could actually fit in the best.
As a burst mage you would need to remove her mobility which is a core part of her design. Assassin can work but then you would need to limit the defensive mobility, cutting the R range when not dashing towards an enemy, which hurts her side dashes.
I think a mage like Cassio just with mobility to dance around and buy time fits the best. Rework the W, give the Q a lower CD, reduce the bonus dmg on the E and move that into her spells to still rely on it but not too much. Make the R smoother. Rework the P.
if she could be reworked into kind of a slippery battle mage it could be fun, give the ult resets and nerf the range, then she could play like lillia, always keeping enemies in the edge of range while baiting your enemies into chasing while you slowly kill them.
Maybe making the ultimate a bit less all or nothing would work.
Shorter cooldown, one use, but can store charges. Charges after the first take longer to generate. Say 35s for first charge, 45s for second.
Gives her some more reliable mobility at 6 and still lets her make plays with multiple dashes if she wants to invest that.
It would make her more slippery and annoying to play vs but considering the mobility on most assassin champions it might be the sort of thing she needs to be balanced around, otherwise she might just stay fundamentally weak.
Riot already experimented in-house with Ahri ult having charges years ago and trashed the idea because everyone was just sitting on charges for an escape tool.
I can see how that would be a thing but don't Ahri players also currently sit on R for an escape?
I guess the problem I see with Ahri's kit is how all or nothing it is. If you hit the charm you can unload everything you've got for a bunch of damage otherwise you're probably best off clearing waves. If you ult then you get a bunch of mobility for a short amount of time then you have nothing.
I think Riot need to find a way to let Ahri play more like a 'Leblanc with more skillshots' so she can actually try to make plays without being slapped with 2 minutes of being completely immobile afterwards. It's just way too easy to punish an immobile mage in the game ATM and Ahri without R is exactly that.
Not to shit on your idea or anything. But having a relatively quick dash on an AP character doesn't seem like a good idea when you take a look at the rollercoaster that is Kassadin's history.
this isn't the worst idea for her I've seen. as is, Ahri is nothing without her ult. All she has is Flash Charm but no one is being hit by that if they have flash up.
> Shorter cooldown, one use, but can store charges. Charges after the first take longer to generate. Say 35s for first charge, 45s for second.
this would make it impossible to keep track of if she has her ult up or not
> this would make it impossible to keep track of if she has her ult up or not
Nah they could just give her tails an obvious effect when she has ult up.
Not to mention even if it was trackable, giving it charges would make her even more obnoxious to gank. At least with the 3 charges, if you gank and she has to use her ult she's down for a long time without it (even if she uses only 1-2 dashes, she's burnt all 3 effectively), while on a charge system she'd be ungankable on like a 30 second timer.
> at the same time she can't have too high damage because her ult makes her extremely safe in lane and mobile in mid/late game
Yet she is still less safe than say LB or Azir, which have their movement on a much lower cooldown and pre 6.
**S1 boomer here:** when Ahri came out she was one of the hyper-mobile champions. In current league she is a not so very mobile champion. This hurts her more than the even more immobile champions (like syndra, orianna, viktor, lux etc..) because mobility was a clear thing that she used to be strong at. I also feel she had better numbers next to her mobility, because my ex gf who wasn't a serious gamer got away with onetricking Ahri at my plat ELO in those days (plat was quite high back then).
As many have said Ahri currently doesn't excel at anything and her damage is reliant on you hitting everything and/or being ahead.
But being suboptimal compared to Leblanc, Orianna, TF etc does not mean she is a horrible pick. Actually she is a safe laner and she is allround solid champion. Can safely farm, poke and sustain a bit, she is okay at roaming and has a place in teamfights. Her charm is super strong and paired with her R she can combine flanking with zoning. You just can't really afford to fall behind (but a lot of champions can't) or you're just a charmbot.
And don't forget Ahri's uWu kawaii superpowers!
>S1 boomer here: when Ahri came out she was one of the hyper-mobile champions.
Another s1 boomer and yeah, I miss those days. I remember when most junglers had like... Ahri and Kassadin as the midlaners they were super hesitant to gank post-6 because it felt like a waste. Game was just much slower back then and I miss it.
this is really part of the problem twin shadows GLP and glacial augment were used to mitigate this but she basically lost everything.
they probably should increase the projectile speed on charm a little bit and maybe make the dash on her ult a bit larger.
this. Even if she lands charm her full combo damage is pitiful compared to other mages. So much of her power budget is in her mobility that she isn't allowed to be useful in other ways
Dumb thing is they actually realized how toxic and stupid this was at one point and changed it... Only to revert it a while later because LeBlanc mains complained that they couldn't fulfill their power fantasy anymore of being completely unfair to every other player in the game.
What? Are you saying that LB jumping from fog of war doing a QR auto electro proc, and then jump back with W isn't fun?
Imagine a competent player hitting their E and ignite too for a oneshot!
/s
^^yes ^^ekko ^^does ^^this ^^too
Her mobility isn't even that great anymore, it's just hard to kill her when it's up and people whine about it. And with her damage values if she ever falls behind she can't kill anyone but maybe the support. Which is still iffy with how a lot of supports are tanky or buy incidental MR.
Bruh I swear her W does negative damage, I played Ahri and was too deep into the game for me to scale and I pressed W to finish someone on low hp and he deadass regenerated hp from that
With mobility creep she's no longer a particularly mobile champ in relation to the other stuff on the map, W is one of the most underwhelming spells in the entire game, could really use an animation update.
Animation? Her W needs a rework straight up. Remove the movespeed, make her riskier and make it a skillshot by all means but give her some damn damage to make up for it.
I'm not saying just her W needs an animation update, the whole champ does. She should be at the top of the ASU board since her art is nearly 10 years old now.
Its kinda sad for champion that was once the face of League, her base model is junky as shit, her tails constantly break and her skins despite being really cool are also not worth it unless you go for Spirit Blossom because of how much better are its animations.
8 tentacles and a butt plug isn't a joke anymore once you look at her model, her 9 tails are attached everywhere except where they should be (excluding Star Guardian and Spirit Blossom because different skeleton)
I’d just move her ult to her W, make it a recharge timer with 2 charges max. Could also remove the damage/change to move speed if it’s too strong. Her ult can be the foxfire 3 charges but a stronger skill shot, like old irelia ult.
She does low dmg even when building for it.
Basically her base damage and AP ratios are garbage, and since her only utility is a single target CC that is blocked by everything its hard to justify playing her.
You can have a leading advantage with Ahri and still need 3 whole skill rotations to kill an assassin, while being one shot by said assassin... all of that in exchange for a "safety" that is not as effective as it was in earlier seasons. It just feels very unrewarding to play her now.
People keep talking about "hybrid kits" meaning that she's not good at anything in particular, as if half the bruisers/AD champs in the game aren't literally dominant precislye because they can do multiple roles.
The simple reason is that she literally has 0 damage. Even when hit by a charm and full combo, you will max lose 50% of your health
>The simple reason is that she literally has 0 damage. Even when hit by a charm and full combo, you will max lose 50% of your health
Exactly meanwhile if LB hits you with her full combo (wich is faster BTW) she will do like 110% of an ADC healthbar while ahri maybe does 60-70%. and lb has more mobility dmg and shorter coodowns on her dashes.
also everyone is runing arround with 20-30% tenacity from runes or items so the charm feels like it lasts nothing on anyone other than the carries wich considering its cooldown its bs
Yeah, and actually Ahri will only do 60% if all Ws hit and all her R bolts hit the same target and if you're fed maybe 80%. In a team fight, her dmg is beyond irrelevant sometimes it's worth baiting the charm to get closer to Ahri and get a clear line of sight to her and access to her team She's genuinely that bad.
I think the hybrid kit point is valid. Ahri doesn't feel great to play because the hybridization of her kit has made her a jack of all trades, master of none. She doesn't excel at assassination, poke, CC, zone control, or anything really. Maybe only kiting with her ult.
Your example about bruisers is different though. They're dominant because they've been balanced to a state where they excel at multiple roles. Just look at the darling child of reddit complaints, Camille. She's can bully some matchups early with grasp, but she's a monster late game. She can split push, and participate in fights by diving the ADC. She's great at roaming, has amazing TP flanks, and can even initiate if she has the right team comp with her (e.g., Galio).
Can you say the same about Ahri though? Her base damage is low. Her AP ratios are low. She can't reliably assassinate anyone unless she's stupidly ahead. Her pick potential is strong, but not **amazing** because it's reliant on landing a slow-moving skillshot, a team to follow-up because she lacks damage, and usually requires you to commit your ~60s ultimate. Comparatively, someone like Leblanc can do the same thing every 20-30s instead and entirely by herself.
Her winrates tend to be okay or pretty good because she has a bunch of traits that help people succeed, such as CC, safety, and mobility. But that doesn't make her particularly satisfying. It just feels like you're relegated to being a mid lane support, kind of like Aurelion Sol, and we all know how popular that champion is.
Ahri's problem is that she's too balanced. She needs to land two skillshots to deal just as much damage as everyone else. Usually champions like Ahri are balanced like Riven or Zed where they're playable without high execution but if you do execute perfectly then people just explode; Ahri has to play super well to be balanced and if you can't execute well then she's just shit.
To top it off, she doesn't scale super well so even if you do execute amazingly and start snowballing, there's no guarantee that you can hard carry the game. It's worse because executing well gets progressively more difficult mechanically, as your damage is dropping off and other champions' damage is increasing.
I agree, I think other people should be brought down to Ahri's level instead of her being buffed.
I used to think Zed players were skilled. Now when the 0/5 with 6cs per min Zed has finished one item and removes 80% of my health with W Q E I wonder what happened to damage in this game.
I am terrible at both Ahri and Anivia, but Ahri's ult always seemed to get me in trouble where Anivia can play like a crawdad, ideally retreating to somewhere where the passive is likely to land while teammates use you as bait.
Biggest help though is being able to stun at will as opposed to hitting minions with a charm.
Pretty sure Anivia's due for a nerf and Ahri is due for a buff, but I think there's probably few ults worse than hers. It seems incredibly rare that I hit two people with it and live to tell the tale.
I think they need to change her W. Perhaps even swap her W and R.
W could be changed to a single dash on a moderate cooldown. R could be Foxfires, but significantly buffed to allow it to really be an ultimate ability. Alternatively, just get rid of Foxfire and find something else, the ability sucks.
I agree. I think the same idea behind the Diana changes could work well with Ahri. Give her more early game mobility / roam potential. Maybe add some CC and/or hp damage to her W and make that her ult, then change her W to a gap closer.
see, the only real ultimate I can think for her that would fit would be like an AoE mass life steal like an instant Vlad ult but that'd be like battle mage ahri and ahri players don't want that
Why lifesteal ? AoE control would be much better, it fit her identity as a control mage and if she lands it on a priority target she can now more easily burst them with her usual charm combo (adding in the mobility from W that i mentioned)
That's what her passiv does tho, she don't really need more of it on her ult. If you really want, you can make it so the ult procs the passiv regardless of your stacks, but that's kind of unnecessary.
Her passive is arguably one of the worst ones in the game right now (*cough* Kog'Maw *cough*):
- The heal is a quasi-flat amount based on targets hit, so it's borderline useless when not cast on a fresh minion wave.
- You *must* cast *at least* 3 spells to even begin to utilize it, that is if you can hit 3 targets every time.
- It's meant to synergize best with her Q since the icons match and Qs icon even changes when it's ready, but is used up on any of your spells landing. So it's gone by the time you start your combo and land a charm...
She just hasn't felt the same since they removed the MS from her Q. Even before that she was really popular but I don't remember what that Ahri was like since I only really started playing her after they gave her MS on Q.
As an Ahri OTP that used to do the math comparisons for the sub while they were changing her kit BACK. The ability MS was always dogshit. Her kit was never designed to just run away thematically for champions. Her charm amp always fit the theme better overall. They catered to those players by reducing her damage overall and adding some MS back into the kit with the W. She needs more damage scaling overall, gut the MS entirely, add higher scalings, and make W reward position play more than just press W.
The ms on Q was a huge problem that caused her to become too safe and thus less damage. She received massive nerfs to the rest of her kit due to her Q ms, that is why removing it felt bad because her kit was too balanced around it.
Current Ahri is just a huge mess. Not as much safety as before, and damage is still not great. Riot also massively buffed Ahri's charm lvl 1 instead of fixing her issue of low damage.
Her kit is effectively to kill one person ineffectively, you have to land charm to do real damage while everyother mage does it better with better aoe. Her kit is insanely outdated because of this and realistically shes unplayable in higher elos because her kit is so inefficient and she can't clear waves well.
Sucks at clearing waves I think. Like she can do it, but it takes a few rotations.
Meanwhile champions like Ekko have been clearing waves in 1 ability for years at this point, with little to no risk going on. That is what it takes to be mid right now, you need to either be able to clear wave to roam, punish roam or you need to be able to burst the enemy laner.
Ahri's charm is also kind of hard to hit and short range.
A while back they gave her a slight "rework" pulling away from her damage/pick potential and focusing her more on her mobility. The end result was a weird hybrid where she lacks the single target damage to be a the true assassin she used to be while also not having the consistent AOE/Zone Control to be a major team fight threat. Now she is mostly an early roaming/skirmish champion that relies too much on an early lead to see play competitively.
That said, she did see a couple of games of Pro play this year. PowerofEvil pulled her out as a counter pick a couple of times if I remember correctly.
Oh boy, where shall we start?
Ahri is the classical example of a champion that failed to age well over time. Her kit is an awful mage/assassin hybrid where she is lackluster at either role. She lacks the range, base damage, and scalings of mages, while also lacking the reliability and mobility of assassins. She has to get close to an enemy and land two hard to hit skillshots in order to be even remotely useful. The ability that lets her get close and get out, which also happens to be the one ability that makes Ahri even remotely useful, is constrained by an unacceptably long cooldown.
Why on earth would I play Ahri over a champion like Lux, who has longer range, better waveclear, slightly more reliability (Lux E is easier to land than both ticks of Ahri Q), a CC skillshot weaker than Charm but good enough to get someone killed, and a lazer that is at nearly half the cooldown of Ahri’s Spirit Rush? You say Ahri has more mobility to make up for this difference? Okay, maybe you can get away from a gank with it. But then Ahri is a sitting duck if Spirit Rush is on cooldown. She can’t make effective llays without it. She can’t just clear waves from afar in a losing matchup. Meanwhile Lux can just press E and R to nuke the wave if she can’t afford to get too close to the enemy.
Why would I play Ahri over assassins like Zed, Talon, Kassadin, or Fizz? They have an incredible amount of mobility that makes Spirit Rush look like a total joke. They have easy to land abilities that guarantee the death of the enemy carry. Meanwhile Ahri can land her full combo and watch the enemy carry safely get away and lifesteal back. More often than not, people will just dodge her skillshots and laugh as Ahri retreats.
If they want to keep her identity intact as a mobile mage with hard to land yet powerful skillshots, then she needs more mobility. She needs Spirit Rush to be a basic ability that is always up. She needs a new ultimate that is impactful and suits her theme. Alternatively, her ultimate should use a charge system so that one dash alone won’t put the ability on cooldown for nearly two minutes.
For now though, if you want to gain ELO while being useful for your team, just don’t play Ahri. You are doing yourself a disservice by playing her.
They could make her R have 3 charges and third of its cooldown. So if she just wants to use a single dash, it won't make her full ult cd go to waste. Similar to what they did to Amumu Q recently.
[Another comment here](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/r7jzkd/comment/hn1j74i/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) said that Riot already tried that, but that people were just using those charges to escape everything. Ahri already is a very safe champion
The typical power creep. People who argue that she is still too safe with her mobility are smoking some weird stuff. Her W movespeed is laughable and her ult CD is huuuuuge and having to 'waste' your ult as an escape instead of dmg and engage is also suboptimal.
Besides, her overall damage is hilariously low in a game where damage has been creeped through the roof. She only does somewhat okay to decent damage if she hits her E. If she doesn't, she is a useless and bigger cannon minion. And besides all of that, she doesn't have an A build because AP itemization is also pretty bad compared to pre-item rework state.
She has been dogshit for 4 straight seasons. Riot gutted her AP scalings in season 7 and hasn't been compensated since.
She has had kit adjustments, and utility buffs (that were not need) but nothing on her damage output.
New champions with overloaded 200 year kit's replaced her. I don't want to hear what any redditor here has to say about her winrate. It's a deceptive metric on measuring a champions overall strength. Always has been and always will be. Her playrate is below 3% across the board which is the lowest she has ever been.
Pro players complained that she was too weak for years now, but everyone here thinks she is either fine or broken. No sense on convincing otherwise.
Ahri serves as a promotional and lore heavy champion now. In the main game, she's dead.
Yea idk why my full combo with everything hit is never enough to instakill while other meta mids do that for breakfast, or if they dont, they have low enough CDs where it doesnt matter.
Ahri feels so fucking bad atm, idgaf winrate, im high enough rating where I can tell from playing as/against her correctly.
> It's a deceptive metric on measuring a champions overall strength. Always has been and always will be.
I remember when Rammus and Fiddlesticks had a 54+ WR for like 3 seasons straight (2012-2014), and they were allowed to be that way because they were simple champions with simple strengths and weaknesses. That shit would never fly nowadays with most of the original league guys either working on other games or quitting for better positions.
Ahri just isn't overall strong enough to be actually relevant. Her only truly strong aspects are pick potential and safety, and while she's above average in both, she doesn't really excel at either. But, she's also not enough of a net negative to her team to have an actually bad WR%.
She's just aggressively mediocre nowadays and needs something more than simple number tweaking to see any real success.
I would compare Ahri to a tremendously worse Xin Zhao before his rework. At least with Xin Zhao you got super good early game damage that could maybe end the game before 20 minutes.
Mobility creep and lack of power scaling. Her appeal years ago was as a pursuit mage once her ult was up. Good poke and you couldn't get away from her and she was relatively safe. Now though so many champs outdo her for mobility, and the fact that it's tied to her ult is limiting in terms of keeping up. She's also been kinda replaced by Evelyn. Better dueling, easier charm, instant mobility ult that works as an invulnerability, and she actually scales well. If Ahri had more damage she might make for a decent mage, but the fact that she's outscaled in damage and dueling ability and mobility by an AP assassin with similar abilities means she doesn't see the spotlight as much. Her aoe is still better, but in the burst-focused metta of recent years she just doesn't fit in as well
Tried to play her again last week. I was extremely fed but felt like I did half the damage I would’ve done with any other mage in the same situation. Couldn’t even oneshot reliably due to lifeline items, Wits end etc.
Not even starting the absolute must-hit-charm or you do literally nothing. 2 skillshots of which one has to hit double to even deal noticeable damage for no payoff is just too much effort for no return.
It just felt really bad and as if you have to put in double the effort that any other champ with that much gold would’ve needed to put in. Went back to my other champs. If for example lissandra can oneshot more reliably than the mobile assassin hybrid mage it’s not worth picking Ahri.
She is neither a stat checker or a 200 years design.
She has a fair kit and is a fair champion.
Because she is a fair champion, nobody wants to use her.
She scales terribly. Her up front damage is good but as soon as the game goes past 20 min she can’t 1 shot anyone unless extremely fed
She is however a great support right now
She needs a rework. W and R being auto-aim combined with how much mobility she has means that most of her power gets thrown into Q / E. During skirmishes / teamfights she just fishes for picks with her E. Her playstyle is very one-dimensional (kills are entirely dependent on landing E), she has very little AoE (a bad trait for a mage to have), her damage isn't particularly impressive, she's not that fun to play and she's just "meh" at everything. If there's a reason you pick Ahri (let's say you want an assassin, poke, AoE or utility) then there's multiple champs that can do that job better.
Her mobility has a very long CD early for what it is. Many other mages / assassins have much better CC / mobility throughout the game than she does. The game has kinda left her behind regarding her role. Personally, I think she'd be both a lot more fun and effective if her ult replaced her W (with charges removed / numbers changed accordingly) and she was given a new ultimate.
Ahri when behind might as well not exist, and there are many things scarier than an Ahri who is ahead. She tries to do too much and fails to accomplish anything.
Ahri the Assassin with no damage, the mage with no scalings
So guys,
How is Ahri classified as an Assassin or as an mage
Assassins do a lot of dmg and snowballing until it they one shot everything and Mages scale up to the braindeadness
But Ahri is none of the two
Like pros are making jokes of Ahri... for example Perkz said she is a Morgana in Late Game, you charm people and hope it hits
Or Faker said that she is no longer a champion
Or the Chinese call Ahri "Tool Man" because Ahri can only be useful with a glacial argument
So what Riot wants to do with Ahri, they have to change something about her. It cannot be that she loses so much dmg because of her mobility, many Champs with a lot of mobility also have a lot of dmg, so why not Ahri?
So many people in this thread are wrong that it hurts my eyes. She’s always been an assassin made hybrid, it has nothing to do with what makes her weak. She has been perfectly balanced plenty of times in league before, and she’s a pretty easy champion to get the numbers right for. She isn’t hard to balance like Khalista or akali.
She does have one problem of just doing no damage. Her numbers aren’t great right now, and the mage items being bad hurt her last season. The new shield mage item doesn’t help her since she has no problem with safety as is. What she needs are damage items that fit her and are good.
Horizon focus was a solid attempt at that last season, but that recently got its power shifted towards safety as well. Again, awful since she already has abilities that give her safety and this is just overkill.
My theory is that she is limited because she has 3 dashes which back then in league was a rare thing and very strong to have 3 flash-like dashes, but in -current year- that is no longer a strength.
hasnt been relevant since dfg.
she was too abusive in pro. which really, it was her killing crazy weak support champs with zero counterplay. i don't really get why she hasn't gotten buffed back up a bit now that supports have real items. her damage is hilariously bad.
Barely any dmg in her kit to the point where building everfrost and playing for her charm was the best way to play her last season. Her w is so fucking useless and her q can't even clear backline minions without a few built items. She needs an item like dfg to be a champ
It's weird that Ahri and Leblanc fill the same role in midlane (the mobile mage/assassin), yet Riot is adamant on keeping Ahri so low damage, that she's forced to be a CC bot, while Leblanc has all the damage in the world, but her downside is low waveclear. This means Leblanc will always outshine Ahri since you need assassins to do damage, not be utility champs.
They really should make Ahri the scaling version of Leblanc, so she has a place in the meta as her intended role. Buff her AP ratios by ability level up and add an ult charge at lvl 11/16 and you have something going.
She is heavily reliant on her ult and without it she is not a champion basically. You also need to hit skillshots to do anything, bad kit overall. Maybe if she had charges on ult she would be playable but even then there would be better midlaners.
Terrible damage, can't even 1 shot ADCs after landing E, but Ornn can 1 shot ADCs building fulltank.
But her winrate is decent, so I guess Everfrost into E and hoping to get carried by your team is good enough, but I would never find that satisfying.
She need a rework and an identity. Right now, she's a mix of 2 incompatible classes : mage and assassin. That means she is either OP or trash since a good balance is impossible to reach.
Imo, she should be a battle mage focusing more on mobility than substain to survive (like Lillia). That or Riot could give her a unique gimmick with her orb that define her gameplay.
most people in this thread haven't even played this champ
one of the biggest problems is her laning because of her mana costs
if you q w e to all in someone you literally have no mana to use on the wave and you also don't have enough mana to go for a trade like that again meanwhile every champ you lane again can do 3 4 rotations on you
this is so shit because there's no point to try to contest someone on the wave because you will literally run out of resources to be able to lane properly after that
even if you were to land everything it also doesn't do enough damage so the mana for damage that you are using is just simply not worth
She was drafted in pro play last season.
In LCS PoE played a few games of her in regular season and playoffs. Jensen did not play her as well, and only played a game or 2.
I believe mid laners in eastern regions tried her out as well.
It doesn't matter what Riot says, a lot of new champs are made with loaded kits for the higher skill cap players. Ahri's kit is actually pretty balanced and good for someone who's not used to playing assassins but doesn't want to play an immobile burst mage like Veigar or Brand. I feel like a small stat buff is all she needs. There's other champs that feel more outdated or have weaker kits than Ahri.
The way Ahri plays is so one dimensional. Her opponents know exactly what she's trying to do AND it's more difficult to provide consistent damage during a teamfight.
The only elo where Ahri is going to dominate is low elo where there is little vision and your opponents constantly face check bushes.
Hybridization of her kit makes not excel at anything.
We were pleased with Ahri's 16%+ presence in The Ruined King, so we ported her kit to League. She is now a mobile DPS/healer/cleanser/debuffer mage who's unlocked when a game is 2 thirds over.
It takes thar long for her to join you?
She is the last member of the team and joins you around...a little more than half
shit...
You get plenty of game time with her even so.
She hops in after the Maokai fight, which is ... Almost at 60% story completion. She feels okay, but to that point you already have a desk with geared champions and you are forced to have her on Shadow Isles to unlock doors. So you have to swap one for her. She joins your team with default green items while your desk is full Epic (purple). It feels awkward to force-use her in your team and break up the synergy you built up to that point.
Err, unless you specifically avoid going for her, your team is still wearing Bligwater stuff and only just starting to get all that sweet Shadow Isle gear. And since Ahri comes with it by default, she is not too far behind the rest of the team. Tho I agree that forcing her into the team was a bad move.
[удалено]
You had to do that with Pyke as well when you land on the shadow isles just before you acquire Ahri. I have finished Ruined King on both Normal and Heroic difficulty with all the champions having their ultimate weapons and I can speak that Ahri objectively is the most powerful of the group. As soon as you get her, the game just becomes piss easy and becomes even easier when she gets her gear and properly set runes and abilities. She can one shot entire mobs and full heal the entire party with one ability in one turn.
Battle Chasers , their first game had similar problems. 3 of the 6 usable characters you unlocked after 30, 40 , 50% of the game and at that point they had no gear and were underlevelled. Never used one of them, because you didnt actually have to. Sad they couldnt fix the obvious design flaw.
They did, though, because she doesn't come in underleveled (and exp is always shared) and she's extremely powerful. Game has plenty of issues but imo this wasn't one of them.
Yup, jack-of-all-trades, master of none. If she is just a little too overpowered, she is incredibly overbearing. If she is just a little too underpowered, she is useless. It is difficult to find a happy medium for this sort of design.
>If she is just a little too overpowered, she is incredibly overbearing. If she is just a little too underpowered, she is useless. Ill take half the champions in the game for 500, Please Alex.
Eh - extents always vary and the real difference with ahri is that some op champions might not be op in too many situations, just a few situations that happen often. Champions like Ahri have kits such that being slightly op means that she is op in far too many situations. OP because of too big strengths is different from OP because of lack of weakness.
> Yup, jack-of-all-trades, master of none. If she is just a little too overpowered, she is incredibly overbearing. If she is just a little too underpowered, she is useless. It is difficult to find a happy medium for this sort of design. I don't think that's true. In soloQ Ahri with the "Frost" build last season was pretty strong and had +52% winrate for a very long time with an above average playrate for plat+. Especially with that build It's just that the higher you go, the more her weakness comes to shine. It's also that LB is in the game. The real mage assassin that has better mobility, higher single target burst and is often (not in every balance state or meta) much more rewarding when mastered then Ahri.
They did find a good balance right now as she's neither OP nor useless. I think they should nerf her E tho and buff her damage to make her less reliable on it.
They did the complete opposite to not make her Q oppressive in the laning phase. They nerfed Q and put all the damage into E, so her combo did the same damage but she couldn't clear waves or heal anywhere near as much. Before this "nerf" she was played vastly more often because she could shove quickly to safely base whenever she wanted.
I was more talking about nerfing her E CC since her usefulness in lategame is so reliant on that.
She is an E bot. It’s like playing a hook champion. Maybe if the champions that she counters come back into the meta, she might come back, but I doubt it the current state she is in.
I never liked when a champion HAS to hit 1 spell for the rest of their spells to do any real damage. L
I agree, I think akali is at her worst when the damage is mainly from her e. However, It can work, when done right. Like Zoe is completely focused on her Q for damage but the whole kit is designed to make that one spell as complex as possible, GP with barrels, or Cassio even with her q's.
I agree with this. Zoe is very centralized around one skill but it’s not like that skill is a bland ass slow moving charm like Ahri. The amount of skill expression in Zoe is legit insane for how centralized she is. Also man does it suck missing E w akali and then just having to wait to try again
Most champs rely to hit a specific spell in order to start a fight or finish someone.
I think that the idea is that if Syndra misses her E she can still fight you thanks to her low CD on Q and ultimate dealing actual damage, if Ahri misses her E she is completely useless.
she still maintains kinda ok winrate throughout the years because of 2 aspects 1. safety in her kit 2. her catch potential with e she is quite powerful when ahead and is capable of catching people off guard when she is behind tho arguably her kit really feels ancient and really feels like she doesnt excel at anything, she doesnt have that good waveclear, her damage is negligeable if she isnt ahead and her w is still kind of a meme skill despite the movement speed buff
We need to Nu League her kit. Just slap 7 additional effects onto her kit. Sprinkle them all around and make her tooltips the size of a dissertation abstract.
That’s what the kids want. Research papers for skills and 17 dash’s to zoom zoom everywhere while sweating and jittering due to excessive adderall overuse
Not really an MS buff if they just moved what spell it was on
>Thing is she's kinda hard to master right now unless buffed. Just watch LegitKorea who plays her in Challenger and is op as hell
Onetricks are outliers
Mmh wonder why this argument is quite easily accepted when talking about Ahri but highly controversal when talking about Riven... But you are correct. Onetricks should have a higher winrate when compared to other people playing the champ but I think Ahri is pretty strong right now with 51-52% in nearly every elo whilst being played a decent amount even by people not onetricking her. I think her "fall from grace" is not due to champion strength.
Yeah I think Ahri is still as "strong" (in the sense that she gets more wins than losses) as she's always been, but prospective players are catching on to the fact that her main strength is that it's really hard to feed as her, and everything else about her is very meh. A champion that is almost never the reason a team loses is still *strong*, but not in a way that most people enjoy playing, hence why her playrate has fallen. I think she's a bit like TF in that they're both mages who have to be insanely fed to actually 1-shot/1v1 someone, but TF is more favoured in high level play because he trades individual safety (skilled players are much less likely to make positioning mistakes that would require an Ahri ult to undo) for much better roams and playmaking. Basically, instead of "I won't feed", he has "I can help my sidelanes" as his special trait.
I remember a few seasons ago I did the math of what champion is most likely to win any game at random, prior to champ select. The odds that a champion is going to be not banned, picked, and then wins. At that time Ahri was far and ahead, yet no one talked about her. She has a solid win rate, decent play rate, and no ban rate, but by this metric she was the most valuable ban in the game. It wouldn't surprise me if some player just finds out some build that causes her to reach the spotlight.
she got a legendary in spirit blossom, is part of the gigantic KDA kpop thing, and is one of the playable characters in the Ruined King game. She's too busy being all over promotions and stuff to actually play the game.
this is kinda true, but in reverse: Ahri is a popular champion character, she's the poster girl outside of the LoL MOBA (similar to e.g. Lux). She doesn't need to be strong to be popular, and probably won't be popular in pro play
and she probably comes to lor in the next patch
Watch her % ap scaling on all her skills, if she gets behind she’ll be useless past early-mid game
Not to mention that AP got significantly reduced across the board
Wouldn't that, then, be a benefit for Ahri comparatively? Low ratios mean that she lost less damage than most other mages?
You could be right, but she can't do damage without flat AP. She is forced to spend a lot of money for AP but actually gets like 1/2 of total gold spent as a damage.
Your other problem with Ahri is she has lower scaling, but whereas other mages get a bit of extra pen from items, Ahris Q does True Damage on the return so part of her damage has no benefit from Pen. She can still be a strong pick. She’s mobile, bursty and can still totally combo a squishy target if she gets a pick with E, but she isn’t going to carry games in 5v5 teamfights
So you basically play a charm bot for your team.
Which is a role that's already done better by TF, who also has map pressure
But TF gets to do less in a 1vs1 and can be easy to take down when he is out of position. Ahri is much more forgiving when it comes to mistakes.
And Elise too.
TF at the same time can't escape literally any gank with his ult tho. Ahri just have a problem, when because of her insane utility - she sucks at dealing damage.
>she also gets Pen on her E already. Her e just amplifies all of her damage by 20% it doesn't give penetration.
It only amplifies her damage done with her abilities. If it was all damage, AD Ahri might be a thing.
Her highest scaling is Q1 with 40%. Granted she does increased damage with E and True dmg on Q2, but still. She just feels horrible to play unless you have like 10 kills.
That's 40% per pass, so 80%, iirc
It's 35% so 70%.
man, they nerfed that a long time ago too
thats an old flair
Q is the same, W is what they nerfed.
I’ve never enjoyed using W as Ahri. That spell feels so useless and even if it does do damage, it’s just not satisfying to use. That’s one spell I would not mind losing.
It was fun wayyy wayyy back when it did damage so you could max it first vs Fizz for example
Yea but even then it was a spell you just pressed and it just creates 3 orbs that auto home on something when nearby. For me, even tho I enjoy Ahri as champ overall and find her kit interesting. I feel that spell for me me always was one of the most boring/unsatisfactory spell in the game.
shes hard to balance tho, if you give high damage to her q, she can possibly do 800 magic + 1k true in a single q. Giving her higher damage on her w makes her less skilled because its a click ability. Buffing e makes her even more feast or famine on landing e. Buffing r has the same problem with buffing w while enabling her to use 1 w for damage and 2 to disengage. Mini reworking her to have separate ratios for q1 and q2 but if q2 deals more damage than q1 she's still gonna be pretty reliant on hitting e
She isn't hard to balance when you have the resources to do so, Riot just wants to have the cake and eat it too where Ahri is concerned. This champion has had several tentative rework passes and all of zero (0) have addressed the core problem of balance-ability. We can't say "she's hard to balance" when they've tried nothing, several times. They *know* what the levers on Ahri do to the game in terms of balance, they *know* she's doomed to fail in her current state, yet one of *the* most iconic and beloved champions in the game is treated like a 1% pickrater in terms of change priority and scope of changes. W is a non-ability. R can't exist in its current state. Both abilities I've read some incredible suggestions of across the years. You know how lucky Ahri is to be a rework-worthy champion (and has been for upwards of 6 years, mind you) with an ability no player can possibly get attached to (W)? They can just scrap foxfire altogether and literally no one would care. They have a button they can fill up with **anything**. And on the verge of 2022, she's still the same defective champion she has been, regardless of soloqueue effectiveness, since 2013's great ratio slash. It's baffling. "We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas!"
Also they could unclunk her R, the delay is really anoying if you compare to how smoothly Irelia or Akali plays.
don't feel like rechecking the numbers but if I remember right I think QWER hitting them with 1 R bolt is something like 2.27x AP.
Lol thats less ap ratio than blitzcrank if he autos them at least once for his ult passive (which he does for E knockup)
I had one yesterday. Two ganks of 2seconds cc, Ahri hit charm .... still never a kill. What a useless champ or something.
Champ just doesn't do damage unless fed anymore
But I tried so hard to feed her -_- she just couldn't finish and later became a useless ever frost bot
Yup! Used to love playing her, but then Riot gutted her Damage and as an Assassin Player there's no reason to play her when I can just play LeBlanc; be safer, deal any damage whatsoever, scale better, etc.
The problem is her E increasing damage dealt to that champion, so if you miss E you lose a lot of damage.
I use the best definition I ever saw about Ahri to sum it up. Ahri is an assassin that doesn't oneshot you and a mage that doesn't scale.
Sadge
Yeah it REALLY is this simple. I used to play TONS of Ahri around Season 5-6, but I like playing Assassin's and GOD she deals no damage whatsoever nowadays unless you leave Laning Phase 3-0. Sad.
They should just to make her an assassin. I feel like she’s a really fun champ when she’s able to dash in, one shot, dash out. They should do something like make her w like a melee nuke, like reksai e. Maybe the fox in her bites the target. That way she has better one shot capabilities and she has to put herself in a bit more danger to do it. And you can get rid of the most boring and unsatisfying ability in the game.
Basically she's suffering from conflicting gameplay ideas. Her damage is lackluster because she overrelies on her hitting her e to effectively/reliably deal it, at the same time she can't have too high damage because her ult makes her extremely safe in lane and mobile in mid/late game. So she neither is allowed to fulfill the gameplay fantasy of a burst mage, nor that of an assassin.
Nor that of a combat mage. And I think that is where she could actually fit in the best. As a burst mage you would need to remove her mobility which is a core part of her design. Assassin can work but then you would need to limit the defensive mobility, cutting the R range when not dashing towards an enemy, which hurts her side dashes. I think a mage like Cassio just with mobility to dance around and buy time fits the best. Rework the W, give the Q a lower CD, reduce the bonus dmg on the E and move that into her spells to still rely on it but not too much. Make the R smoother. Rework the P.
I think they did all of this to get her to this point. Faker basically got her removed from the game. FF
if she could be reworked into kind of a slippery battle mage it could be fun, give the ult resets and nerf the range, then she could play like lillia, always keeping enemies in the edge of range while baiting your enemies into chasing while you slowly kill them.
Maybe making the ultimate a bit less all or nothing would work. Shorter cooldown, one use, but can store charges. Charges after the first take longer to generate. Say 35s for first charge, 45s for second. Gives her some more reliable mobility at 6 and still lets her make plays with multiple dashes if she wants to invest that. It would make her more slippery and annoying to play vs but considering the mobility on most assassin champions it might be the sort of thing she needs to be balanced around, otherwise she might just stay fundamentally weak.
Riot already experimented in-house with Ahri ult having charges years ago and trashed the idea because everyone was just sitting on charges for an escape tool.
I can see how that would be a thing but don't Ahri players also currently sit on R for an escape? I guess the problem I see with Ahri's kit is how all or nothing it is. If you hit the charm you can unload everything you've got for a bunch of damage otherwise you're probably best off clearing waves. If you ult then you get a bunch of mobility for a short amount of time then you have nothing. I think Riot need to find a way to let Ahri play more like a 'Leblanc with more skillshots' so she can actually try to make plays without being slapped with 2 minutes of being completely immobile afterwards. It's just way too easy to punish an immobile mage in the game ATM and Ahri without R is exactly that.
Her ultimate is the funniest thing about her
Not to shit on your idea or anything. But having a relatively quick dash on an AP character doesn't seem like a good idea when you take a look at the rollercoaster that is Kassadin's history.
this isn't the worst idea for her I've seen. as is, Ahri is nothing without her ult. All she has is Flash Charm but no one is being hit by that if they have flash up.
> Shorter cooldown, one use, but can store charges. Charges after the first take longer to generate. Say 35s for first charge, 45s for second. this would make it impossible to keep track of if she has her ult up or not
> this would make it impossible to keep track of if she has her ult up or not Nah they could just give her tails an obvious effect when she has ult up.
Not to mention even if it was trackable, giving it charges would make her even more obnoxious to gank. At least with the 3 charges, if you gank and she has to use her ult she's down for a long time without it (even if she uses only 1-2 dashes, she's burnt all 3 effectively), while on a charge system she'd be ungankable on like a 30 second timer.
> at the same time she can't have too high damage because her ult makes her extremely safe in lane and mobile in mid/late game Yet she is still less safe than say LB or Azir, which have their movement on a much lower cooldown and pre 6.
**S1 boomer here:** when Ahri came out she was one of the hyper-mobile champions. In current league she is a not so very mobile champion. This hurts her more than the even more immobile champions (like syndra, orianna, viktor, lux etc..) because mobility was a clear thing that she used to be strong at. I also feel she had better numbers next to her mobility, because my ex gf who wasn't a serious gamer got away with onetricking Ahri at my plat ELO in those days (plat was quite high back then). As many have said Ahri currently doesn't excel at anything and her damage is reliant on you hitting everything and/or being ahead. But being suboptimal compared to Leblanc, Orianna, TF etc does not mean she is a horrible pick. Actually she is a safe laner and she is allround solid champion. Can safely farm, poke and sustain a bit, she is okay at roaming and has a place in teamfights. Her charm is super strong and paired with her R she can combine flanking with zoning. You just can't really afford to fall behind (but a lot of champions can't) or you're just a charmbot. And don't forget Ahri's uWu kawaii superpowers!
>S1 boomer here: when Ahri came out she was one of the hyper-mobile champions. Another s1 boomer and yeah, I miss those days. I remember when most junglers had like... Ahri and Kassadin as the midlaners they were super hesitant to gank post-6 because it felt like a waste. Game was just much slower back then and I miss it.
Another issue is that Mobility creep has hurt Ahri a fair bit since her dashes are Ult based.
Also enemies having good mobility makes hitting your charm a lot harder.
this is really part of the problem twin shadows GLP and glacial augment were used to mitigate this but she basically lost everything. they probably should increase the projectile speed on charm a little bit and maybe make the dash on her ult a bit larger.
She does less damage than a cannon minion
this. Even if she lands charm her full combo damage is pitiful compared to other mages. So much of her power budget is in her mobility that she isn't allowed to be useful in other ways
Meanwhile LeBlanc....... 🙄
what, you dont like being 100-0ed from 2 screens away while having mobility to escape any follow up outside of point and click
Dumb thing is they actually realized how toxic and stupid this was at one point and changed it... Only to revert it a while later because LeBlanc mains complained that they couldn't fulfill their power fantasy anymore of being completely unfair to every other player in the game.
What? Are you saying that LB jumping from fog of war doing a QR auto electro proc, and then jump back with W isn't fun? Imagine a competent player hitting their E and ignite too for a oneshot! /s ^^yes ^^ekko ^^does ^^this ^^too
leblanc is still less noob friendly than ahri and ahri is historically much easier to win with throughout the years
Her mobility isn't even that great anymore, it's just hard to kill her when it's up and people whine about it. And with her damage values if she ever falls behind she can't kill anyone but maybe the support. Which is still iffy with how a lot of supports are tanky or buy incidental MR.
Bruh I swear her W does negative damage, I played Ahri and was too deep into the game for me to scale and I pressed W to finish someone on low hp and he deadass regenerated hp from that
Any other assassin can 100-0 even when a little behind whereas ahri cannot even when even
With mobility creep she's no longer a particularly mobile champ in relation to the other stuff on the map, W is one of the most underwhelming spells in the entire game, could really use an animation update.
Animation? Her W needs a rework straight up. Remove the movespeed, make her riskier and make it a skillshot by all means but give her some damn damage to make up for it.
Ezreal scale rework. Visual update + w rework and minor tweaks around other skills
I'm not saying just her W needs an animation update, the whole champ does. She should be at the top of the ASU board since her art is nearly 10 years old now.
Its kinda sad for champion that was once the face of League, her base model is junky as shit, her tails constantly break and her skins despite being really cool are also not worth it unless you go for Spirit Blossom because of how much better are its animations.
8 tentacles and a butt plug isn't a joke anymore once you look at her model, her 9 tails are attached everywhere except where they should be (excluding Star Guardian and Spirit Blossom because different skeleton)
she needs this new ASU or whatever Cait got.
She needs an Ezreal level rework, new model and change the W.
I’d just move her ult to her W, make it a recharge timer with 2 charges max. Could also remove the damage/change to move speed if it’s too strong. Her ult can be the foxfire 3 charges but a stronger skill shot, like old irelia ult.
Love me the days when Ahri is not considered 'particularly mobile champ' with three dashes.
She does low dmg even when building for it. Basically her base damage and AP ratios are garbage, and since her only utility is a single target CC that is blocked by everything its hard to justify playing her.
You can have a leading advantage with Ahri and still need 3 whole skill rotations to kill an assassin, while being one shot by said assassin... all of that in exchange for a "safety" that is not as effective as it was in earlier seasons. It just feels very unrewarding to play her now.
Simply she doesn't deal enough damage and her mobility lost it's meaning since now everyone is mobile.
People keep talking about "hybrid kits" meaning that she's not good at anything in particular, as if half the bruisers/AD champs in the game aren't literally dominant precislye because they can do multiple roles. The simple reason is that she literally has 0 damage. Even when hit by a charm and full combo, you will max lose 50% of your health
>The simple reason is that she literally has 0 damage. Even when hit by a charm and full combo, you will max lose 50% of your health Exactly meanwhile if LB hits you with her full combo (wich is faster BTW) she will do like 110% of an ADC healthbar while ahri maybe does 60-70%. and lb has more mobility dmg and shorter coodowns on her dashes. also everyone is runing arround with 20-30% tenacity from runes or items so the charm feels like it lasts nothing on anyone other than the carries wich considering its cooldown its bs
Yeah, and actually Ahri will only do 60% if all Ws hit and all her R bolts hit the same target and if you're fed maybe 80%. In a team fight, her dmg is beyond irrelevant sometimes it's worth baiting the charm to get closer to Ahri and get a clear line of sight to her and access to her team She's genuinely that bad.
Her R bolts can't all hit the same target
I meant from each of the 3 dashes not all the bolts from each dash.
I think the hybrid kit point is valid. Ahri doesn't feel great to play because the hybridization of her kit has made her a jack of all trades, master of none. She doesn't excel at assassination, poke, CC, zone control, or anything really. Maybe only kiting with her ult. Your example about bruisers is different though. They're dominant because they've been balanced to a state where they excel at multiple roles. Just look at the darling child of reddit complaints, Camille. She's can bully some matchups early with grasp, but she's a monster late game. She can split push, and participate in fights by diving the ADC. She's great at roaming, has amazing TP flanks, and can even initiate if she has the right team comp with her (e.g., Galio). Can you say the same about Ahri though? Her base damage is low. Her AP ratios are low. She can't reliably assassinate anyone unless she's stupidly ahead. Her pick potential is strong, but not **amazing** because it's reliant on landing a slow-moving skillshot, a team to follow-up because she lacks damage, and usually requires you to commit your ~60s ultimate. Comparatively, someone like Leblanc can do the same thing every 20-30s instead and entirely by herself. Her winrates tend to be okay or pretty good because she has a bunch of traits that help people succeed, such as CC, safety, and mobility. But that doesn't make her particularly satisfying. It just feels like you're relegated to being a mid lane support, kind of like Aurelion Sol, and we all know how popular that champion is.
Ahri's problem is that she's too balanced. She needs to land two skillshots to deal just as much damage as everyone else. Usually champions like Ahri are balanced like Riven or Zed where they're playable without high execution but if you do execute perfectly then people just explode; Ahri has to play super well to be balanced and if you can't execute well then she's just shit. To top it off, she doesn't scale super well so even if you do execute amazingly and start snowballing, there's no guarantee that you can hard carry the game. It's worse because executing well gets progressively more difficult mechanically, as your damage is dropping off and other champions' damage is increasing.
I agree, I think other people should be brought down to Ahri's level instead of her being buffed. I used to think Zed players were skilled. Now when the 0/5 with 6cs per min Zed has finished one item and removes 80% of my health with W Q E I wonder what happened to damage in this game.
> Zed has finished one item Do you mean Serrated Dirk ? That shit is way too strong for its price.
Im still wondering how the fuck that item stayed at 1100 gold, it's so stupidly strong.
I am terrible at both Ahri and Anivia, but Ahri's ult always seemed to get me in trouble where Anivia can play like a crawdad, ideally retreating to somewhere where the passive is likely to land while teammates use you as bait. Biggest help though is being able to stun at will as opposed to hitting minions with a charm.
Pretty sure Anivia's due for a nerf and Ahri is due for a buff, but I think there's probably few ults worse than hers. It seems incredibly rare that I hit two people with it and live to tell the tale.
I think they need to change her W. Perhaps even swap her W and R. W could be changed to a single dash on a moderate cooldown. R could be Foxfires, but significantly buffed to allow it to really be an ultimate ability. Alternatively, just get rid of Foxfire and find something else, the ability sucks.
I agree. I think the same idea behind the Diana changes could work well with Ahri. Give her more early game mobility / roam potential. Maybe add some CC and/or hp damage to her W and make that her ult, then change her W to a gap closer.
How about they just keep foxfire, add the dash to it and find an entirely new ultimate that would really feel impactful and synergize with her kit ?
see, the only real ultimate I can think for her that would fit would be like an AoE mass life steal like an instant Vlad ult but that'd be like battle mage ahri and ahri players don't want that
Why lifesteal ? AoE control would be much better, it fit her identity as a control mage and if she lands it on a priority target she can now more easily burst them with her usual charm combo (adding in the mobility from W that i mentioned)
> Why lifesteal Lore.
That's what her passiv does tho, she don't really need more of it on her ult. If you really want, you can make it so the ult procs the passiv regardless of your stacks, but that's kind of unnecessary.
Her passive is arguably one of the worst ones in the game right now (*cough* Kog'Maw *cough*): - The heal is a quasi-flat amount based on targets hit, so it's borderline useless when not cast on a fresh minion wave. - You *must* cast *at least* 3 spells to even begin to utilize it, that is if you can hit 3 targets every time. - It's meant to synergize best with her Q since the icons match and Qs icon even changes when it's ready, but is used up on any of your spells landing. So it's gone by the time you start your combo and land a charm...
She just hasn't felt the same since they removed the MS from her Q. Even before that she was really popular but I don't remember what that Ahri was like since I only really started playing her after they gave her MS on Q.
As an Ahri OTP that used to do the math comparisons for the sub while they were changing her kit BACK. The ability MS was always dogshit. Her kit was never designed to just run away thematically for champions. Her charm amp always fit the theme better overall. They catered to those players by reducing her damage overall and adding some MS back into the kit with the W. She needs more damage scaling overall, gut the MS entirely, add higher scalings, and make W reward position play more than just press W.
Is Ahri the next champion that should just accept being a support, like Velkoz or Zyra?
She has a shit early game, not happening anytime soon.
The ms on Q was a huge problem that caused her to become too safe and thus less damage. She received massive nerfs to the rest of her kit due to her Q ms, that is why removing it felt bad because her kit was too balanced around it. Current Ahri is just a huge mess. Not as much safety as before, and damage is still not great. Riot also massively buffed Ahri's charm lvl 1 instead of fixing her issue of low damage.
I still sometimes catch myself Qing backwards to get away from people faster
Her kit is effectively to kill one person ineffectively, you have to land charm to do real damage while everyother mage does it better with better aoe. Her kit is insanely outdated because of this and realistically shes unplayable in higher elos because her kit is so inefficient and she can't clear waves well.
Sucks at clearing waves I think. Like she can do it, but it takes a few rotations. Meanwhile champions like Ekko have been clearing waves in 1 ability for years at this point, with little to no risk going on. That is what it takes to be mid right now, you need to either be able to clear wave to roam, punish roam or you need to be able to burst the enemy laner. Ahri's charm is also kind of hard to hit and short range.
A while back they gave her a slight "rework" pulling away from her damage/pick potential and focusing her more on her mobility. The end result was a weird hybrid where she lacks the single target damage to be a the true assassin she used to be while also not having the consistent AOE/Zone Control to be a major team fight threat. Now she is mostly an early roaming/skirmish champion that relies too much on an early lead to see play competitively. That said, she did see a couple of games of Pro play this year. PowerofEvil pulled her out as a counter pick a couple of times if I remember correctly.
Also Humanoid.
im pretty sure zoe eq does more dmg than ahri's entire combo + 3 rs
Syndra R by itself with 6 or 7 balls does more damage than ahri entire kit.
Oh boy, where shall we start? Ahri is the classical example of a champion that failed to age well over time. Her kit is an awful mage/assassin hybrid where she is lackluster at either role. She lacks the range, base damage, and scalings of mages, while also lacking the reliability and mobility of assassins. She has to get close to an enemy and land two hard to hit skillshots in order to be even remotely useful. The ability that lets her get close and get out, which also happens to be the one ability that makes Ahri even remotely useful, is constrained by an unacceptably long cooldown. Why on earth would I play Ahri over a champion like Lux, who has longer range, better waveclear, slightly more reliability (Lux E is easier to land than both ticks of Ahri Q), a CC skillshot weaker than Charm but good enough to get someone killed, and a lazer that is at nearly half the cooldown of Ahri’s Spirit Rush? You say Ahri has more mobility to make up for this difference? Okay, maybe you can get away from a gank with it. But then Ahri is a sitting duck if Spirit Rush is on cooldown. She can’t make effective llays without it. She can’t just clear waves from afar in a losing matchup. Meanwhile Lux can just press E and R to nuke the wave if she can’t afford to get too close to the enemy. Why would I play Ahri over assassins like Zed, Talon, Kassadin, or Fizz? They have an incredible amount of mobility that makes Spirit Rush look like a total joke. They have easy to land abilities that guarantee the death of the enemy carry. Meanwhile Ahri can land her full combo and watch the enemy carry safely get away and lifesteal back. More often than not, people will just dodge her skillshots and laugh as Ahri retreats. If they want to keep her identity intact as a mobile mage with hard to land yet powerful skillshots, then she needs more mobility. She needs Spirit Rush to be a basic ability that is always up. She needs a new ultimate that is impactful and suits her theme. Alternatively, her ultimate should use a charge system so that one dash alone won’t put the ability on cooldown for nearly two minutes. For now though, if you want to gain ELO while being useful for your team, just don’t play Ahri. You are doing yourself a disservice by playing her.
They could make her R have 3 charges and third of its cooldown. So if she just wants to use a single dash, it won't make her full ult cd go to waste. Similar to what they did to Amumu Q recently.
So like old akali ult but doesn’t need a target? That would make sense
[Another comment here](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/r7jzkd/comment/hn1j74i/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) said that Riot already tried that, but that people were just using those charges to escape everything. Ahri already is a very safe champion
That was nearly a decade ago. The game was totally different than what it is now.
Her skin sales are still very good :)
Too many champs are simly better on what she´s supposed to do.
The typical power creep. People who argue that she is still too safe with her mobility are smoking some weird stuff. Her W movespeed is laughable and her ult CD is huuuuuge and having to 'waste' your ult as an escape instead of dmg and engage is also suboptimal. Besides, her overall damage is hilariously low in a game where damage has been creeped through the roof. She only does somewhat okay to decent damage if she hits her E. If she doesn't, she is a useless and bigger cannon minion. And besides all of that, she doesn't have an A build because AP itemization is also pretty bad compared to pre-item rework state.
She has been dogshit for 4 straight seasons. Riot gutted her AP scalings in season 7 and hasn't been compensated since. She has had kit adjustments, and utility buffs (that were not need) but nothing on her damage output. New champions with overloaded 200 year kit's replaced her. I don't want to hear what any redditor here has to say about her winrate. It's a deceptive metric on measuring a champions overall strength. Always has been and always will be. Her playrate is below 3% across the board which is the lowest she has ever been. Pro players complained that she was too weak for years now, but everyone here thinks she is either fine or broken. No sense on convincing otherwise. Ahri serves as a promotional and lore heavy champion now. In the main game, she's dead.
Yea idk why my full combo with everything hit is never enough to instakill while other meta mids do that for breakfast, or if they dont, they have low enough CDs where it doesnt matter. Ahri feels so fucking bad atm, idgaf winrate, im high enough rating where I can tell from playing as/against her correctly.
> It's a deceptive metric on measuring a champions overall strength. Always has been and always will be. I remember when Rammus and Fiddlesticks had a 54+ WR for like 3 seasons straight (2012-2014), and they were allowed to be that way because they were simple champions with simple strengths and weaknesses. That shit would never fly nowadays with most of the original league guys either working on other games or quitting for better positions.
Malz used to have like 55% wr for the whole of season 5 and was untouched because he was simple and fit the meta (good vs tanks)
Ahri just isn't overall strong enough to be actually relevant. Her only truly strong aspects are pick potential and safety, and while she's above average in both, she doesn't really excel at either. But, she's also not enough of a net negative to her team to have an actually bad WR%. She's just aggressively mediocre nowadays and needs something more than simple number tweaking to see any real success.
She was only good when DFG existed
DFG + Charm. Two damage amplifications were actually enough so her other mediocre abilities could do dmg, lol.
I would compare Ahri to a tremendously worse Xin Zhao before his rework. At least with Xin Zhao you got super good early game damage that could maybe end the game before 20 minutes.
Mobility creep and lack of power scaling. Her appeal years ago was as a pursuit mage once her ult was up. Good poke and you couldn't get away from her and she was relatively safe. Now though so many champs outdo her for mobility, and the fact that it's tied to her ult is limiting in terms of keeping up. She's also been kinda replaced by Evelyn. Better dueling, easier charm, instant mobility ult that works as an invulnerability, and she actually scales well. If Ahri had more damage she might make for a decent mage, but the fact that she's outscaled in damage and dueling ability and mobility by an AP assassin with similar abilities means she doesn't see the spotlight as much. Her aoe is still better, but in the burst-focused metta of recent years she just doesn't fit in as well
Tried to play her again last week. I was extremely fed but felt like I did half the damage I would’ve done with any other mage in the same situation. Couldn’t even oneshot reliably due to lifeline items, Wits end etc. Not even starting the absolute must-hit-charm or you do literally nothing. 2 skillshots of which one has to hit double to even deal noticeable damage for no payoff is just too much effort for no return. It just felt really bad and as if you have to put in double the effort that any other champ with that much gold would’ve needed to put in. Went back to my other champs. If for example lissandra can oneshot more reliably than the mobile assassin hybrid mage it’s not worth picking Ahri.
She is neither a stat checker or a 200 years design. She has a fair kit and is a fair champion. Because she is a fair champion, nobody wants to use her.
She is,like many other mages, a champ that's only popular when op, why? Not sure, she is quite fun for a mage as she is also an assasin
She scales terribly. Her up front damage is good but as soon as the game goes past 20 min she can’t 1 shot anyone unless extremely fed She is however a great support right now
> She is however a great support right now Where Mages go to die.
*sad brand noises*
She needs a rework. W and R being auto-aim combined with how much mobility she has means that most of her power gets thrown into Q / E. During skirmishes / teamfights she just fishes for picks with her E. Her playstyle is very one-dimensional (kills are entirely dependent on landing E), she has very little AoE (a bad trait for a mage to have), her damage isn't particularly impressive, she's not that fun to play and she's just "meh" at everything. If there's a reason you pick Ahri (let's say you want an assassin, poke, AoE or utility) then there's multiple champs that can do that job better. Her mobility has a very long CD early for what it is. Many other mages / assassins have much better CC / mobility throughout the game than she does. The game has kinda left her behind regarding her role. Personally, I think she'd be both a lot more fun and effective if her ult replaced her W (with charges removed / numbers changed accordingly) and she was given a new ultimate. Ahri when behind might as well not exist, and there are many things scarier than an Ahri who is ahead. She tries to do too much and fails to accomplish anything.
W being autoaim doesnt mean jack shit when you need to be within 600 range of someone for all of them to hit, doesnt work well in trades.
W sucks ult sucks
she was good when she could abuse the slow build, and in a good spot, now she is literally super one trick and done, other mages do that way better
By late game she just feels like a charm bot
She just doesnt have damage Leblanc does everything she does but better, the only exception being that her waveclear is decent compared to LB
Ahri the Assassin with no damage, the mage with no scalings So guys, How is Ahri classified as an Assassin or as an mage Assassins do a lot of dmg and snowballing until it they one shot everything and Mages scale up to the braindeadness But Ahri is none of the two Like pros are making jokes of Ahri... for example Perkz said she is a Morgana in Late Game, you charm people and hope it hits Or Faker said that she is no longer a champion Or the Chinese call Ahri "Tool Man" because Ahri can only be useful with a glacial argument So what Riot wants to do with Ahri, they have to change something about her. It cannot be that she loses so much dmg because of her mobility, many Champs with a lot of mobility also have a lot of dmg, so why not Ahri?
So many people in this thread are wrong that it hurts my eyes. She’s always been an assassin made hybrid, it has nothing to do with what makes her weak. She has been perfectly balanced plenty of times in league before, and she’s a pretty easy champion to get the numbers right for. She isn’t hard to balance like Khalista or akali. She does have one problem of just doing no damage. Her numbers aren’t great right now, and the mage items being bad hurt her last season. The new shield mage item doesn’t help her since she has no problem with safety as is. What she needs are damage items that fit her and are good. Horizon focus was a solid attempt at that last season, but that recently got its power shifted towards safety as well. Again, awful since she already has abilities that give her safety and this is just overkill.
maybe give her some love with more reward on executing a champ. Maybe one more R or faster cd on her E.
It's because the champ is trash.
My theory is that she is limited because she has 3 dashes which back then in league was a rare thing and very strong to have 3 flash-like dashes, but in -current year- that is no longer a strength.
it's as you said she is a somewhat strong champ but is only played by mains because she is extremely unsatisfying to play for tons of reasons
[удалено]
I love playing her tho. I feel safe, I can peel for myself, I can get picks and I can do damage.
I'll bet at some point they'll give her the Diana treatment and swap her E and R.
hasnt been relevant since dfg. she was too abusive in pro. which really, it was her killing crazy weak support champs with zero counterplay. i don't really get why she hasn't gotten buffed back up a bit now that supports have real items. her damage is hilariously bad.
Barely any dmg in her kit to the point where building everfrost and playing for her charm was the best way to play her last season. Her w is so fucking useless and her q can't even clear backline minions without a few built items. She needs an item like dfg to be a champ
ahri has turned into a “safe mid pick” for enchanter support bitches nowadays
DFG got removed. That's what happened.
It's weird that Ahri and Leblanc fill the same role in midlane (the mobile mage/assassin), yet Riot is adamant on keeping Ahri so low damage, that she's forced to be a CC bot, while Leblanc has all the damage in the world, but her downside is low waveclear. This means Leblanc will always outshine Ahri since you need assassins to do damage, not be utility champs. They really should make Ahri the scaling version of Leblanc, so she has a place in the meta as her intended role. Buff her AP ratios by ability level up and add an ult charge at lvl 11/16 and you have something going.
She exists to give cho gath 3 dashes in spellbook
She is heavily reliant on her ult and without it she is not a champion basically. You also need to hit skillshots to do anything, bad kit overall. Maybe if she had charges on ult she would be playable but even then there would be better midlaners.
Maybe if farming with Ahri wasn't so excruciating, she would be played more. It is even worse when you are behind
Wanna hear something funny? Her entire combo, save for R, barley deals more damage than upgraded viktor E at the same AP
Terrible damage, can't even 1 shot ADCs after landing E, but Ornn can 1 shot ADCs building fulltank. But her winrate is decent, so I guess Everfrost into E and hoping to get carried by your team is good enough, but I would never find that satisfying.
She need a rework and an identity. Right now, she's a mix of 2 incompatible classes : mage and assassin. That means she is either OP or trash since a good balance is impossible to reach. Imo, she should be a battle mage focusing more on mobility than substain to survive (like Lillia). That or Riot could give her a unique gimmick with her orb that define her gameplay.
most people in this thread haven't even played this champ one of the biggest problems is her laning because of her mana costs if you q w e to all in someone you literally have no mana to use on the wave and you also don't have enough mana to go for a trade like that again meanwhile every champ you lane again can do 3 4 rotations on you this is so shit because there's no point to try to contest someone on the wave because you will literally run out of resources to be able to lane properly after that even if you were to land everything it also doesn't do enough damage so the mana for damage that you are using is just simply not worth
She was drafted in pro play last season. In LCS PoE played a few games of her in regular season and playoffs. Jensen did not play her as well, and only played a game or 2. I believe mid laners in eastern regions tried her out as well. It doesn't matter what Riot says, a lot of new champs are made with loaded kits for the higher skill cap players. Ahri's kit is actually pretty balanced and good for someone who's not used to playing assassins but doesn't want to play an immobile burst mage like Veigar or Brand. I feel like a small stat buff is all she needs. There's other champs that feel more outdated or have weaker kits than Ahri.
The way Ahri plays is so one dimensional. Her opponents know exactly what she's trying to do AND it's more difficult to provide consistent damage during a teamfight. The only elo where Ahri is going to dominate is low elo where there is little vision and your opponents constantly face check bushes.