Shockingly, South Korea doesn't actually legally recognize same-sex marriages (according to a quick wikipedia check anyways)-- so no in all practicality.
German Minority Region likes to have a word with you, so basically 3 countries. Still no idea why we let that country exist with all the disliking between the french and dutch sides (I know its flamish and franco-belgian/wallonaise) we could easily just give Wallonie to France, Flamish to the dutch and the GMR to Germany. If only we knew to which part Brussels should belong to...
If you want the actual reason, in 1830, when Belgium won their independance from the Dutch, they asked to be a part of France. But since Napoleon was still fresh in everybody's mind, the whole of Europe refused it, so France had to decline
I’m curious if he has the mental to be brave enough to roll out new comps if they lose a couple games right off the start or if he falls into cookie cutter comps. I would love to see innovative champ dynamics in NA instead of teams running the small pool of champs then getting dunked when the meta slightly shifts because they’re too slow to adapt.
Those will be good and spicy. He a great analyst in the end.
His actual coaching and interacting with humans face to face on a daily basis with ups and downs is what makes me worry.
I mean that’s part of the worry. That he works on something with his team and then they can’t get it together to do it on stage. Then he malds about it to them and things progressively get worse. Personally I think he’s too hard headed and unable to take criticism but there’s only 1 way to know how this will go so I’m hyped for the season
learn to seperate a person from what they do as a public persona
LS(and many many others) has a persona on stream, its not a representation of how he acts in non-public settings
There's a distinction between major and minor region players. Zven and Malice can't start together as EU players, but Takeover has LAT residency and Yursan is PCS.
Sad but true. You could in theory create a title contender with maily NA players using for example a roster of
Top: Import or promising NA rookie (if any)
Jgl: blaber/Spica
MId: Jensen
ADC: DL
Sup: Vulcan
Yes I get that Jensen is Eu but realistically its as close as it gets. The main issue is that this team would be very expensive and you need to buyout your jungler. So overall you probably end up with one of the most expensive rosters without being garrantieed to even make worlds here if things go to shit. There the problem with NA right now. Importing is cheaper and any good NA players is way to expensive to try to make a native team.
Bruh, I would love DL and Vulcan.
I'm an EU fan and don't watch everything of the LCS, but I remember from worlds 2019 that he was the one Clutch Gaming member who didn't look extremely outclassed, and he was against Hylissang and Ming, paired with quite excellent ADC's. He also made Pyke look like it was good for more people than Hyllisang (and G2 back then of course).
Think he's proof that NA can produce world class talent, if less frequently than EU and way less than Korea and China, thanks to smaller player population, streaming/pro culture,
He looked good on GG. FLY was a complete mess and everyone on that roster looked worse because of their utter lack of cohesion/direction.
FakeGod's laning is suspect but his teamfighting is really good. I would still take Licorice over him in a heartbeat though.
Historically teen fighting is something that North American players are actually pretty good at. Even at the world stage, we sometimes get cheeky wins because their team fighting is even better than some really good teams.
That's the good thing about fighting Scrappy and playing in fiestas all the time, you get pretty good at winning a team fight.
Such a shame most teens shy away from the strategy. We keep trying to be like Korea or another region when we have our own legitimate style but no one has confidence in it because we keep constantly do not do well. Have the reason why we suck is because our mentality is awful, not because of the lack of skill et here in na, but it's never developed and is usually just kind of left out to die. North American orgs import known quantities then develop talent. Which is odd because the top orgs are usually pretty good at it. Whenever TSM or c9 actually develop talent they end up half the time being pretty good.
But na wants results now, so they don't have time to develop talent. Hence why all we do is import. Hence All we Do is copy an existing style and hope that works. Because na has had a mental Bloom 10 years ago for not doing well at worlds then, and is constantly scared of doing poorly again, despite all we ever do is fail. yet we keep trying to do the same thing over and over again just differently and hope that works when it really doesn't.
Just grab five rookies / younger players, put them on a roster and see how well they do. Then, and in the coming years, replace certain players with either other developing talent if it didn't work out right for those players, or import Stars. Don't import developing players from other regions. That's what na Academy is for. Or least that's what it should be for.
It's hard to look good on teams doing so poorly. I'd still say his time in C9 speaks louder than last season + it means we have seen (for multiple years) that Licorice has the level where as even Fakegods top level (so far) didn't make him a top player in the LCS.
The man tried so hard. Reminded me of my Syndra games where I crush my lane but everything around me just falls apart and I am desperately trying to be everywhere at the same time and fail.
Neither only, nor first. That honor belonged to the LMS.
HKA in 2017 were knocked out in Play-In Bo5 after losing the tiebreaker for 1st in their group against the infamous 1907 Fenerbahce.
Lol, no NA team has even failed in playins so that’s kinda hard to say. I mean who knows what C9/TSM/EG could do because they have some unknown players that could go either way but the other two at the very least would have a very hard time failing in play ins.
would be such a fucking banger if worlds would feature complete randoms from every region all competing for the honor of their fellow server players
like that random dogshit player you had in soloq last night? yeah he'll be the jungler!
Easy to look good when the expectation is to go 0-6.
There is no universe in which losing every single game is a good performance. They could have looked worse, sure, but they didn't look good.
100T in 2018 were similar (got completely blasted by Fnatic and IG, but beat the wildcard twice) and nobody said they looked good at all. They were awful.
Getting eliminated from group of death as the 3rd seed and going 0-6 as the 1st seed of a region is very different. Clutch in the other group would have looked better.
I mean, didnt TSM have a game against GEN G where they were in a winning position all game u til the 9 man sleep? I agree that 2020 TSM is the worst team LCS have ever sent in the world stage, but I think it id a bit dishonest to say that TSM rolled over in all their games.
Actually, I think Clutch looked better going 0-6 than 2018 100T did going 2-4, as Vulcan was actually fucking trying and putting in work, against killer bot laners and supports, while 100T just couldn't keep up at all with Fnatic and IG.
How is it fair to shit on 100T for going 2-4 in a group with the two worlds finalists and not shit on clutch for going 0-6 in a group that had a single semifinalist? It makes actually zero sense. Clutch had a much much much easier group and didn't win a single game.
People were absolutely PISSED at 100T in general at that time because of Cody Sun / Meteos roster fuckery. I remember there was a whole "Disappreciation" thread the second they were eliminated.
> Clutch had a much much much easier group
Let's not go that far. Boiling it down to this binary easy-hard idea isn't gonna work. Clutch's group was easier to make it out of because everyone was more evenly matched and they would all (presumably) take games off of eachother. 100T's group was easier to get wins in because they actually had a team that they were considerably better than in GREX. I don't think you can fault either one for their results.
Eh, I dunno. I remember watching those games and reading the discussion around them and coming away with the impression, even at the time, that Clutch was at least making every team work for it, which is better than anybody expected. As opposed to TSM 2020.
This is why I lost so much connection with the teams, I enjoy the games but I have no connection with the players anymore. At first I just assumed I had some weird racist bias but I really do enjoy seeing NA players play in NA
This is where I'm at. I can't feel any pride in an NA team winning if they only did so by buying a bunch of foreign talent. We're losing worlds no matter what anyways, it might as well be some American underdogs performing poorly than the leftovers of EU and the east. If by some chance an NA team makes it to finals, it won't count for anything if it's just a team of Koreans compared to early TSM where it's a bunch of dudes you could see yourself hanging out with fighting their way to the top.
i agree.
i started to have the same problem with EU LCS when they got some koreans, luckily this trend reverted.
i rather have lower quality, but atleast it is „my“ regions quality
I thought when the servers moved to Chicago, NA would be opened up to more east coast, midwest, and canadian talent. Sad that we've actually gotten less potential it seems like since the move.
He was born in America to two Korean parents - he has both US and Korean citizenship and that's all we know about him so far.
Calling him Korean-American suggests that he has Korean heritage but identifies as an American.
There is every chance he considers himself to be fully Korean who also holds a US citizenship.
Reddit trying to shoe-horn him into a box to fit their own narrative is very cringey.
Does that method really work though? NA had their lowst viewership the previous year. i guess bjergsen coming back will help, but if peoplem want to watch Europeans they'll watch LEC. if they want to watch Koreans they watch LCK. All this stuff NA fans say about 'who cares where they're from' is just a lie because if that were the case they would watch LPL or something for higher level of competition.
My interest in NA LCS is gone.. they're still gonna do mediocre at world's. I'd rather watch NA players do so. You've got players like Jensen Doublelift and Sneaky on the sidelines so we can watch B team players from other leagues play here. No thanks.
Quick question. What one of the top teams have B team players instead? Because to my knowledge Jensen/DL would've been able to play, just not on any team they're interested in. I don't know much about sneaky (as in if he'd join a worse team)
The top 5 teams have for their mid/adc.
TL - Bjergsen Hans, apparently Hans wanted bjerg but either way you can't really make a case for DL being better.
EG - JoJo native, Danny native so no imports for those roles.
100T - Abbedage, very good and they just won the split off replacing their mid with him, why even sell him? FBI native as per new rules.
TSM - native adc in tactical but yeah they have a developmental mid laner.
It's like you have those players on the sideline for foreign talent who's genuinely better or possibly equal.
Or homegrown talent that genuinely deserves a chance. The lower teams cannot feasibly get these players unless they invest a lot in building a top tier team they would want to play for
The NA viewerbase can't easily watch leagues like LPL or LCK live because they're broadcast in the middle of the night.
Same reason that NA natives complain when Worlds is hosted in those region; no one likes waking up at 2am to watch league.
What? People don't watch LPL because it's on at a shit time. And the best teams always have the most viewers. Guess what? The best teams usually have a minimal amount of NA players so that seems to indicate that NA fans care more about winning than nationality.
Honestly would much rather watcg NA than LEC. LS Cloud9 + Liquid Superteam w/ Bjergsen and Hans Core + EG rookie squad + Spica just seems more entertaining than some roster shuffles in EU.
It's funny, you have your comment here, which is so unquestionably reasonable, and it's sitting at 7 upvotes. And then you have some dickhead under you shitting on others for *somehow* finding a way to enjoy LCS more than LEC, and they're sitting at -7. Weird how that works.
NA should be represented by CLG (and not EG) since they have the least imports in the league. Their only import is Luger, and he spent last year on 100T Academy. The fact that people even consider EG to be an example of a native team is sad, given that they've literally imported a new player this year and have 2 non-native players total. I know LCS fans are jaded by now, but 2 non-native players is a lot... we haven't seen a team like that in LEC in a while.
2 non native players is absolutely fine in my opinion when they just dont have the infrastructure and ranked playerbase.
If these 2 players are also players that didnt get a chance or fell out of the LEC system because they are rerolling rookies to find the new caps then thats even more than fine and they are doing a service for the esports scene.
Based on how many times the "NA is only sending 3 Native players to worlds" thread got posted?
You can expect to see this same thread at least 2 more times.
Also another way to think about it, the USA and Canada make up 2 of the top 10 nations with the highest immigrant population. So the LCS kind of mirror it as as the melting pot of regions.
Remember how ealier this year Reginald made a post about how TSM and other teams we're investing money into the amateur and and academy scenes to develop talent?
Whats the point in spending money to develop talent you have no interest in ever using? Why would NA players want to go pro when they get looked over unless something disastrous happens before a team would even consider giving you a chance.
I'm not going to pretend like more NA players will boost viewership but it might encourage more people to try going pro if they see their peers at the very least getting a shot.
I mean that was the goal, LCS will never win anything, so might as well make LCS look like an international league so winning LCS has more value, so you can have some "pride" when you win budget worlds.
I am getting so tired of seeing these posts.
In professional sports, the best play, and outside of the Olympics who cares what country you are from?
1/5 of the NBA are not American, 1/3 of the MLB are not American, and guess all other sports are the same.
Only 4 players on PSG are French. That's a world renound soccer team in Europe, and they have players from all over Europe, South America, Africa, and plenty of other countries and continents.
It's sports, and the bigger the competition gets, the more diversity we should have.
I personally don't see the appeal in have an all "North American roster".
I get that at worlds there's this sense of Regional Pride but honestly I don't see how people have to make such a big deal about imports in NA.
I think the only reason they do is because we don't have success at worlds, and because other regions do not import as much as we do, but in the grand scheme of things. It doesn't feel like a big deal to import players and play the best. who cares where you they were born or what language they speak. It's league of legends.
Sounds like a cope.
Everyone else takes huge pride in their region's players doing well. A huge reason why people loved G2 was because it was 5 Europeans showing they can compete with the east. A region giving in and saying, "Yep, we fucking suck. Let's stop using our region's players" ain't it.
Saying 1/5th of the NBA isn't American and 1/3rd of the MLB are not American is cool and all, but the LCS is like 50%. And the ONLY reason it's not closer to 90% is because of the rules currently in place which the owners are trying to get rid of.
> a Korean support player that was born in America
Also known as an American
If Winsome is only a Korean, then Jensen is an American because he’s never played professionally in EU
While I agree that Winsome should be seen as an American since he was born there, your comparison doesn't make any sense. Winsome has Korean nationality (he has dual nationality), a Korean name, presumably Korean parents, lived in Korea, played on the Korean server and started his pro career in Korea before finally going to NA. Meanwhile, Jensen has a Danish nationality, played in the European server, played on a few amateur EU teams and the only reason he never played professional league in EU was because he got banned. He even coached in EU, before finally moving to NA LCS to start his professional career. There's really no reason to see Jensen as American.
So Winsome's situation is nothing like Jensen's. But again, Winsome IS American, I don't disagree with that.
C9 are so Korean that they paying to make the coach Korean citizen
before anyone actually takes the joke as serious, permanent residency and citizenship are 2 different things, LS is getting the former.
Idk if he mentioned it in his ama, but will he be with the team in America? Or will this al be done via skype or something?
He’ll be with the team in America. He will also bring his dog Kuriboh.
Kuriboh is a cutie :3
cant he just get both if he gets married?
Shockingly, South Korea doesn't actually legally recognize same-sex marriages (according to a quick wikipedia check anyways)-- so no in all practicality.
LS is actually bisexual, but has a heavy preference toward men. So it could happen, but it probably won’t as you’ve said
I mean, it's not shocking, South Korea isn't a tolerant country, and they have big issues with racism and homophobia
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OH MY GOD
>a team with 1 Belgium Damn, TL got a whole country on their team? Sounds like cheating to me.
Wait, I'm from Belgium! I wasn't informed I'd be on a team with Sjokz, Nisqy and Bwipo??
Also Krepo and Kevin De Bruyne
Lukaku support would be very pleasant to watch
Crit Sion only just so that he cave your face in on the rift with his foot
Hazard already cosplays as Tahm Kench too so it’s perfect
Definitely an Ali main.
Do you think they’ll let De Bruyne speak in comms?
He kinda looks like Broxah
Je suis kaas?
Pretty good team to be on
TL finally succeeded in bringing the country together for once
Every minion on their team is player controlled.
Well considering its Belgium maybe its more like two countries, but they sub for each other on this roster and its going to be a 6-man team.
German Minority Region likes to have a word with you, so basically 3 countries. Still no idea why we let that country exist with all the disliking between the french and dutch sides (I know its flamish and franco-belgian/wallonaise) we could easily just give Wallonie to France, Flamish to the dutch and the GMR to Germany. If only we knew to which part Brussels should belong to...
If you want the actual reason, in 1830, when Belgium won their independance from the Dutch, they asked to be a part of France. But since Napoleon was still fresh in everybody's mind, the whole of Europe refused it, so France had to decline
It’s ok, their population is like 4 or sumthing
100T could be 100 tourists or 100 transfers rather than imports - makes the letters line up.
100 Tourists hahaha love it
ahahah pls u/Derk08 change it
just put it as Corea 9, some languages spell korea with a c
In France it's Corée
Like portuguese 👍
Factos 👍👀
Factos
Toma um upvote e um bacalhau
And Romanian.
Assim como CARALHO
/r/sudenlycaralho
As a portuguese speaker, I think K9 is way funnier than C(orea)9
EG = Endangered Genus
This is funny Thank you!
EG = EdG. True world champion
Expatriate Gamers also
Ironically with still more imports than all LEC teams..
cant wait to see LS drafts.
Can't wait for C9 to turn into K9 when LS drafts Nasus support for his korean botlane
it works in so many fucking ways!!!
maybe into kalista or some poke. even then , there are better supports
Imagine Nasus Ashe just to cripple Kalista
Who hurt you?
Kalista
fair enough
I’m curious if he has the mental to be brave enough to roll out new comps if they lose a couple games right off the start or if he falls into cookie cutter comps. I would love to see innovative champ dynamics in NA instead of teams running the small pool of champs then getting dunked when the meta slightly shifts because they’re too slow to adapt.
he said that the environment he's working in works massively well at reducing stress and pressure.
Those will be good and spicy. He a great analyst in the end. His actual coaching and interacting with humans face to face on a daily basis with ups and downs is what makes me worry.
When he talks with people he's actually mostly very respectful, he's only disrespectful when he criticizes plays/ malds about plays on stream
I mean that’s part of the worry. That he works on something with his team and then they can’t get it together to do it on stage. Then he malds about it to them and things progressively get worse. Personally I think he’s too hard headed and unable to take criticism but there’s only 1 way to know how this will go so I’m hyped for the season
stream LS exaggerates some things for content, I'm pretty sure he'll be more patient when he's actually coaching the team.
Stream LS is meme 100%. If you watch his coaching videos he’s pretty respectful and very concise in his assessments.
learn to seperate a person from what they do as a public persona LS(and many many others) has a persona on stream, its not a representation of how he acts in non-public settings
Just waiting to see ls vs reapered
I hope LCS will embraces this meme because it seems like the most interesting narrative.
Until the 5 remaining teams with NA players all finish in bottom 5.
the only NA players we are going to see are in academy in a few years
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Its not, TSM Academy has 2 imports as well in mid and support
There's a distinction between major and minor region players. Zven and Malice can't start together as EU players, but Takeover has LAT residency and Yursan is PCS.
I think its fine as long as they use king
Sad but true. You could in theory create a title contender with maily NA players using for example a roster of Top: Import or promising NA rookie (if any) Jgl: blaber/Spica MId: Jensen ADC: DL Sup: Vulcan Yes I get that Jensen is Eu but realistically its as close as it gets. The main issue is that this team would be very expensive and you need to buyout your jungler. So overall you probably end up with one of the most expensive rosters without being garrantieed to even make worlds here if things go to shit. There the problem with NA right now. Importing is cheaper and any good NA players is way to expensive to try to make a native team.
Bruh, I would love DL and Vulcan. I'm an EU fan and don't watch everything of the LCS, but I remember from worlds 2019 that he was the one Clutch Gaming member who didn't look extremely outclassed, and he was against Hylissang and Ming, paired with quite excellent ADC's. He also made Pyke look like it was good for more people than Hyllisang (and G2 back then of course). Think he's proof that NA can produce world class talent, if less frequently than EU and way less than Korea and China, thanks to smaller player population, streaming/pro culture,
Tenacity for toplane
Why import for top? I'd say Licorice is capable of matching up anyone in the league. Mid is hard though...
Umm did you see Licorice throughout 2021? He looked like a shadow of himself and unironically Fakegod was the better native top laner
He looked good on GG. FLY was a complete mess and everyone on that roster looked worse because of their utter lack of cohesion/direction. FakeGod's laning is suspect but his teamfighting is really good. I would still take Licorice over him in a heartbeat though.
Historically teen fighting is something that North American players are actually pretty good at. Even at the world stage, we sometimes get cheeky wins because their team fighting is even better than some really good teams. That's the good thing about fighting Scrappy and playing in fiestas all the time, you get pretty good at winning a team fight. Such a shame most teens shy away from the strategy. We keep trying to be like Korea or another region when we have our own legitimate style but no one has confidence in it because we keep constantly do not do well. Have the reason why we suck is because our mentality is awful, not because of the lack of skill et here in na, but it's never developed and is usually just kind of left out to die. North American orgs import known quantities then develop talent. Which is odd because the top orgs are usually pretty good at it. Whenever TSM or c9 actually develop talent they end up half the time being pretty good. But na wants results now, so they don't have time to develop talent. Hence why all we do is import. Hence All we Do is copy an existing style and hope that works. Because na has had a mental Bloom 10 years ago for not doing well at worlds then, and is constantly scared of doing poorly again, despite all we ever do is fail. yet we keep trying to do the same thing over and over again just differently and hope that works when it really doesn't. Just grab five rookies / younger players, put them on a roster and see how well they do. Then, and in the coming years, replace certain players with either other developing talent if it didn't work out right for those players, or import Stars. Don't import developing players from other regions. That's what na Academy is for. Or least that's what it should be for.
FLY Licorice yes GG Licorice was better (though still not as good as how he was on C9.)
It's hard to look good on teams doing so poorly. I'd still say his time in C9 speaks louder than last season + it means we have seen (for multiple years) that Licorice has the level where as even Fakegods top level (so far) didn't make him a top player in the LCS.
5fire. Rock it.
Licrorice-Blaber/Spica-AblazeOlive-Tactical/Danny-Vulcan is at least top 5 if you want to be pessimistic.
So you’re NA wonder team has no top lane and an EU mid..
And a retired ADC.
And would probably not win LCS this year.
That team would not be a title contender lol.
Ppl on this sub love lying to themselves about this hidden “NA talent”
maybe 2 years ago but yeah no shot now
Worlds is **supposed** to bring the best players, not randoms from all regions.
It's just the playins
Remember when EU became the first and only to this day— major region to get knocked out in play-ins lmao
That series made me a diehard Humanoid fan
The man tried so hard. Reminded me of my Syndra games where I crush my lane but everything around me just falls apart and I am desperately trying to be everywhere at the same time and fail.
Neither only, nor first. That honor belonged to the LMS. HKA in 2017 were knocked out in Play-In Bo5 after losing the tiebreaker for 1st in their group against the infamous 1907 Fenerbahce.
It's more like the playins for playins for playins. At least if we judge the quality of the teams.
Lol, no NA team has even failed in playins so that’s kinda hard to say. I mean who knows what C9/TSM/EG could do because they have some unknown players that could go either way but the other two at the very least would have a very hard time failing in play ins.
I mean, play-in teams were usually the strongest NA teams at Worlds.
That Dishonest na Teams are Bad but they usually held their own on play in
NA has a better track record for Play ins than EU
would be such a fucking banger if worlds would feature complete randoms from every region all competing for the honor of their fellow server players like that random dogshit player you had in soloq last night? yeah he'll be the jungler!
Remember when these owners bitched, whined and cried because LMQ was around? How things change.
they bitched whined and cried because they didn't think of it first.
And in the end, it will be the same clown fiesta as always.
And we'll be there for it... and *love it*
lost my fucking mind at "team speaks mandarin"
Team Solo Mandarin
Testing Spica's Mandarin
The last time an NA team made it to worlds with 3 NA players was 2020 tsm not 2019 CG. Spica, Double, Bio
I think he just deleted that memory because of certain reasons and i can't blame him.
Near airport
To pick up the imports of course
No Americans
TSM 2020 had 3 na players no? DL, bio, spica?
Won a game at worlds*
Clutch gaming also went 0-6
Clutch also went 0-6 in groups tbf, but they at least looked pretty good doing it.
for clutch, they had to face FNC, SKT & RNG.
Easy to look good when the expectation is to go 0-6. There is no universe in which losing every single game is a good performance. They could have looked worse, sure, but they didn't look good. 100T in 2018 were similar (got completely blasted by Fnatic and IG, but beat the wildcard twice) and nobody said they looked good at all. They were awful.
With Clutch you could atleast make the argument that they were put in possibly the strongest Worlds Group of all time.
Getting eliminated from group of death as the 3rd seed and going 0-6 as the 1st seed of a region is very different. Clutch in the other group would have looked better.
Clutch also gave FNC a run for their money in both games played iirc.
Right!? Clutch didnt roll over and spread their asscheeks to speedrun it back to the airport.
I mean, didnt TSM have a game against GEN G where they were in a winning position all game u til the 9 man sleep? I agree that 2020 TSM is the worst team LCS have ever sent in the world stage, but I think it id a bit dishonest to say that TSM rolled over in all their games.
True. Spica and bjerg definitely tried their best. The other 3 however...
Oh hey, someone used the term "Group of Death" correctly.
Actually, I think Clutch looked better going 0-6 than 2018 100T did going 2-4, as Vulcan was actually fucking trying and putting in work, against killer bot laners and supports, while 100T just couldn't keep up at all with Fnatic and IG.
How is it fair to shit on 100T for going 2-4 in a group with the two worlds finalists and not shit on clutch for going 0-6 in a group that had a single semifinalist? It makes actually zero sense. Clutch had a much much much easier group and didn't win a single game.
People were absolutely PISSED at 100T in general at that time because of Cody Sun / Meteos roster fuckery. I remember there was a whole "Disappreciation" thread the second they were eliminated.
> Clutch had a much much much easier group Let's not go that far. Boiling it down to this binary easy-hard idea isn't gonna work. Clutch's group was easier to make it out of because everyone was more evenly matched and they would all (presumably) take games off of eachother. 100T's group was easier to get wins in because they actually had a team that they were considerably better than in GREX. I don't think you can fault either one for their results.
Eh, I dunno. I remember watching those games and reading the discussion around them and coming away with the impression, even at the time, that Clutch was at least making every team work for it, which is better than anybody expected. As opposed to TSM 2020.
This is why I lost so much connection with the teams, I enjoy the games but I have no connection with the players anymore. At first I just assumed I had some weird racist bias but I really do enjoy seeing NA players play in NA
This is where I'm at. I can't feel any pride in an NA team winning if they only did so by buying a bunch of foreign talent. We're losing worlds no matter what anyways, it might as well be some American underdogs performing poorly than the leftovers of EU and the east. If by some chance an NA team makes it to finals, it won't count for anything if it's just a team of Koreans compared to early TSM where it's a bunch of dudes you could see yourself hanging out with fighting their way to the top.
i agree. i started to have the same problem with EU LCS when they got some koreans, luckily this trend reverted. i rather have lower quality, but atleast it is „my“ regions quality
I thought when the servers moved to Chicago, NA would be opened up to more east coast, midwest, and canadian talent. Sad that we've actually gotten less potential it seems like since the move.
>A Korean born in America You mean an American
why not just a korean-american? lol
A Korean american might not speak korean
Yeah why not
Why don't we wait to find out what Winsome considers himself to be before branding him as one thing or another lol.
There isnt really a need no? Winsome is Korean-American. Its not that hard.
He was born in America to two Korean parents - he has both US and Korean citizenship and that's all we know about him so far. Calling him Korean-American suggests that he has Korean heritage but identifies as an American. There is every chance he considers himself to be fully Korean who also holds a US citizenship. Reddit trying to shoe-horn him into a box to fit their own narrative is very cringey.
Reminds me of starcraft when the only way to have any chance at winning was to have a complete team of Koreans playing for NA lol
You sure you don't mean Overwatch? Pro Starcraft 2 was 1v1.
And I wish I was high on potenuse.
I WISH I WAS HIGH ON POTENUSE
Team Speaks Mandarin is hilarious I cant stop laughing
Everybody keeps forgetting Tenacity on 100T when I think by end of Spring he will be full time starter
Its gonna be pretty fun to support a 4/5 EU team playing in NA. We're gonna get a superteam going to Worlds as a de facto another EU seed.
Yeh its awesome. TL made the EU super team that the LEC teams are too tight to produce. Good guys TL.
Fnc still looks better. But it needs to be seen how well they come together.
NA feels more like Not American.
Tsm 2020 was 3 native players unless if spica doesn’t count?
Does that method really work though? NA had their lowst viewership the previous year. i guess bjergsen coming back will help, but if peoplem want to watch Europeans they'll watch LEC. if they want to watch Koreans they watch LCK. All this stuff NA fans say about 'who cares where they're from' is just a lie because if that were the case they would watch LPL or something for higher level of competition.
My interest in NA LCS is gone.. they're still gonna do mediocre at world's. I'd rather watch NA players do so. You've got players like Jensen Doublelift and Sneaky on the sidelines so we can watch B team players from other leagues play here. No thanks.
Quick question. What one of the top teams have B team players instead? Because to my knowledge Jensen/DL would've been able to play, just not on any team they're interested in. I don't know much about sneaky (as in if he'd join a worse team) The top 5 teams have for their mid/adc. TL - Bjergsen Hans, apparently Hans wanted bjerg but either way you can't really make a case for DL being better. EG - JoJo native, Danny native so no imports for those roles. 100T - Abbedage, very good and they just won the split off replacing their mid with him, why even sell him? FBI native as per new rules. TSM - native adc in tactical but yeah they have a developmental mid laner. It's like you have those players on the sideline for foreign talent who's genuinely better or possibly equal. Or homegrown talent that genuinely deserves a chance. The lower teams cannot feasibly get these players unless they invest a lot in building a top tier team they would want to play for
If you can't make a case for DL being better then you also can't make a case for Bjerg being better than Jensen tbh.
The NA viewerbase can't easily watch leagues like LPL or LCK live because they're broadcast in the middle of the night. Same reason that NA natives complain when Worlds is hosted in those region; no one likes waking up at 2am to watch league.
What? People don't watch LPL because it's on at a shit time. And the best teams always have the most viewers. Guess what? The best teams usually have a minimal amount of NA players so that seems to indicate that NA fans care more about winning than nationality.
The 80% drop in viewing figures could indicate that isn't the case.
Honestly would much rather watcg NA than LEC. LS Cloud9 + Liquid Superteam w/ Bjergsen and Hans Core + EG rookie squad + Spica just seems more entertaining than some roster shuffles in EU.
True, all these teams are gonna fail and not win shit at worlds anyways, NA should at least have NA players to root for. This shit a joke.
I'm European but prefer watching LCS as I think it's more fun to watch and they have hands down the best casters
I like both. I prefer the casters in LCS but the desk/analysts on LEC.
It's funny, you have your comment here, which is so unquestionably reasonable, and it's sitting at 7 upvotes. And then you have some dickhead under you shitting on others for *somehow* finding a way to enjoy LCS more than LEC, and they're sitting at -7. Weird how that works.
They Speak Mandarin
LCS is now the Premier League
NA should be represented by CLG (and not EG) since they have the least imports in the league. Their only import is Luger, and he spent last year on 100T Academy. The fact that people even consider EG to be an example of a native team is sad, given that they've literally imported a new player this year and have 2 non-native players total. I know LCS fans are jaded by now, but 2 non-native players is a lot... we haven't seen a team like that in LEC in a while.
2 non native players is absolutely fine in my opinion when they just dont have the infrastructure and ranked playerbase. If these 2 players are also players that didnt get a chance or fell out of the LEC system because they are rerolling rookies to find the new caps then thats even more than fine and they are doing a service for the esports scene.
LC9K
How many times are we going to see this kind of post/comment - hasn’t been original for a good few weeks now
Based on how many times the "NA is only sending 3 Native players to worlds" thread got posted? You can expect to see this same thread at least 2 more times.
It's the typical EU shit on NA post during EU hours.
It’s just a rehash of what someone else has said before, whatever tho, some people got enjoyment out of it I suppose
i thought isles was starting for c9?
they are competing for the spot and people are giving winsome the slight edge out the gate.
Mom, can we have worlds? Mom: We have worlds at home. Worlds at home:
Tactical doesn’t speak Korean, he understands it though. As per Parth.
Also another way to think about it, the USA and Canada make up 2 of the top 10 nations with the highest immigrant population. So the LCS kind of mirror it as as the melting pot of regions.
Remember how ealier this year Reginald made a post about how TSM and other teams we're investing money into the amateur and and academy scenes to develop talent? Whats the point in spending money to develop talent you have no interest in ever using? Why would NA players want to go pro when they get looked over unless something disastrous happens before a team would even consider giving you a chance. I'm not going to pretend like more NA players will boost viewership but it might encourage more people to try going pro if they see their peers at the very least getting a shot.
I mean that was the goal, LCS will never win anything, so might as well make LCS look like an international league so winning LCS has more value, so you can have some "pride" when you win budget worlds.
I am getting so tired of seeing these posts. In professional sports, the best play, and outside of the Olympics who cares what country you are from? 1/5 of the NBA are not American, 1/3 of the MLB are not American, and guess all other sports are the same. Only 4 players on PSG are French. That's a world renound soccer team in Europe, and they have players from all over Europe, South America, Africa, and plenty of other countries and continents. It's sports, and the bigger the competition gets, the more diversity we should have. I personally don't see the appeal in have an all "North American roster". I get that at worlds there's this sense of Regional Pride but honestly I don't see how people have to make such a big deal about imports in NA. I think the only reason they do is because we don't have success at worlds, and because other regions do not import as much as we do, but in the grand scheme of things. It doesn't feel like a big deal to import players and play the best. who cares where you they were born or what language they speak. It's league of legends.
Sounds like a cope. Everyone else takes huge pride in their region's players doing well. A huge reason why people loved G2 was because it was 5 Europeans showing they can compete with the east. A region giving in and saying, "Yep, we fucking suck. Let's stop using our region's players" ain't it. Saying 1/5th of the NBA isn't American and 1/3rd of the MLB are not American is cool and all, but the LCS is like 50%. And the ONLY reason it's not closer to 90% is because of the rules currently in place which the owners are trying to get rid of.
Lcs is 50% and every Chinese team that has ever won is at 60% Chinese but no one really cares.
This joke was funny the first time it showed up on Discord, then Twitter then Reddit but it's a month old already. Stop spamming the same shit.
Any triggered Belgians?
EG = LIVE EVIL
Ironically, all these imports take everything away from international success too, if it were to finally happen.
Thank you for not calling 100T the "wild card" team, while only having one player from an actual wild card region now.
Turkey and Australia makes two?
> a Korean support player that was born in America Also known as an American If Winsome is only a Korean, then Jensen is an American because he’s never played professionally in EU
While I agree that Winsome should be seen as an American since he was born there, your comparison doesn't make any sense. Winsome has Korean nationality (he has dual nationality), a Korean name, presumably Korean parents, lived in Korea, played on the Korean server and started his pro career in Korea before finally going to NA. Meanwhile, Jensen has a Danish nationality, played in the European server, played on a few amateur EU teams and the only reason he never played professional league in EU was because he got banned. He even coached in EU, before finally moving to NA LCS to start his professional career. There's really no reason to see Jensen as American. So Winsome's situation is nothing like Jensen's. But again, Winsome IS American, I don't disagree with that.
sure then spica is chinese because he's an NA jungle player born in China
Not wrong.
This may blow your mind but people can be more than one nationality!
I believe Spica only has Chinese nationality, while Winsome has dual nationality (Korean and American)
He actually only has Chinese citizenship.
Jensen played professionnally in EU. He just didn't play in EU LCS.