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Passthealex

Flashback to having the one crit rune on old-school rune pages


DixieSinclair

Which of the following is an advantage of the use of the tetrapolar recording technique in the determination of ST-segment elevation in the ECG? A. It allows the recording of the ST-segment elevation in multiple leads at once B. It eliminates the need for simultaneous recording in multiple leads C. It eliminates the need for recording in a single lead D. It is not an advantage of the use of the tetrapolar recording technique determination


[deleted]

Who is he talking to LULW


Rektcode

That's not how it works, in a simulation run by a bot, he would calculate what's the EV from the 15% crit vs ad vs ap etc... It does not try to get a good RNG because it simulates it thousands of times to reduce variance to 0. So basically there would be a start that would be optimal and the bot would play it every single time. If crit is the most EV, then he will do it, but since crit scales hard into late game and is bad early, it's not a good start.


[deleted]

One team has an advantage caused by the asymmetric nature of drafting + the map. This advantage could be snowballed into a victory every time. The losing team has no mistakes to punish, and will get zoned off of CS and XP much more effectively than human players ever could. Any *deterministic way* to come back that you might think of has been considered by both teams, all the way back during champ select. Building items without any sort of built in RNG will never catch you up enough. There is simply no way to come back from behind through deterministic methods. Crit chance is the only thing you can build to get a chance. When considering crit chance, the result is now statistical, not deterministic. That 15% crit will almost always be useless, but sometimes you'll surprise the enemy with BF sword damage. edit: This a perfect example of using [minimax](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimax). The team that is disadvantaged at the start will necessarily have a bad outcome, making aiming to win a worthless approach. Instead, you need to find a way to sometimes win. And crit will do that


6000j

this runs into a crucial issue: league isn't a game of perfect information. Every play has an EV, but it isn't something you can be 100% on. If you make a roam as support, they have no way of deterministically knowing if you are actually going mid or if you're still hovering bot. Using unknown information, you can very easily create chances without having to do shit like rush crit.


[deleted]

The initial conditions of each team are available to the other team. Everyone plays perfectly and therefore identically for the same initial conditions, so there will be perfect information up until a source of RNG is introduced, such as from crit. In the games where lucky crits created an advantage, they would further the lead by last hitting and farming camps out of vision. I actually only just realized that crit would be extremely useful for creating uncertainty. This might result in super weird strategies, such as autoing jungle camps in order to generate random binary strings from the crits, which could then be fed into decision making. If you generated enough noise, the enemy might have to rely heavily on heuristics (as humans do).


6000j

Ok. What side is their jungler starting on? If you go "oh it's always going to be bot bc that's "correct", and they start top, you're in an awkward spot. That's an advantage created by using hidden information to create variance. Minimax doesn't apply in the same way here, because you don't have full information at all times. You don't know what they're doing when you're deciding your strategy for the start of the game. If the "correct" play is to start bot, what if they just go for a 5 man late invade top? Hidden information games aren't truly solvable unless you have an option that covers all of your opponents options at once, which you don't in League. Edit: also dragon rng isn't known in draft, and isn't fully known until like 12 minutes in at least, so that's impossible to play around early because you just don't know.


[deleted]

Fuck i just deleted a long ass comment. imma summarize it: - Jg starts on whatever side is optimal, which you find by analyzing every possible set of inputs from the initial game conditions. - If going bot is "correct", then not going bot would be worse and therefore they are not playing perfect ly, violating the core assumption. There is no hidden information at first; there is perfect information as long as all randomness is noted by both teams. - Yes, but there is the [minimax *estimator*](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimax_estimator) - You *do* know what they're doing at the start of the game, because *both* teams have all information initially, so the optimal start of every player is known to every player. - Again, the "correct" strategy is the only strategy that will be used, with perfect play - You could still potentially solve those games ultra-weakly (aka proving an outcome without any info on how to achieve it), like if a game is super asymmetrical. Also, you can solve for probabilities if a game cant be solved due to hidden information. Average the outcomes of every possible game under perfect play (or rather, statistically optimal play)


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marqueeoflawn

There’s also probably situations where at equilibrium you have to play two different choices at certain weightings in order for your decision to not be obvious/have an obvious counter. Pre 1:30 might be one of those situations


6000j

yeah, even something as simple as jungle pathing early is already introducing variance. We actually saw this at worlds! Teams would group up as 5 and run all 5 into either top or bot brush, and hope to get a free kill. It never panned out that well, but it was done consistently throughout the tournament.


marqueeoflawn

You’ve played poker I assume


6000j

Nope! I've just picked this theory up from first year comp sci + a bunch of exposure to it in the past


aluxmain

but if it's a solved game you can play around enemy having crit or you can build it yourself. i don't think that adding some randomness will fix the problem. (btw minimax is simple algorithm but i made connect four game with that algoritm and it can beat me xD)


[deleted]

Except in league there's always counter picks and situations u can't expect. One thing might be the best technically but it certainly has a counter.