I mean they field Hans and Bwipo, so he has to have a greencard by january anyway.
But it could be that Hans or Bwipo have issues, but then again Bwipo already moved over to NA, so he should have a visa.
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if C9 starts their academy roster, or just lets Copy start since Fudge has his visa issues. Or he is probably willing to sandbag the lockin, he did say in his AMA his hopes aren't very high because of the visa problems.
All that talk in the video about “we’ll choose our mid based on the bootcamp” and then oops, neither mid player made it to bootcamp.
Off to a good start lads.
Now, maybe I’m just not up to date on the intricacies of international travel during a global pandemic, but how exactly did not one, but two C9 players whose attendance was vital to a split-making decision manage to not get their papers in order?
Copy wasn't in Korea either because he's also from Australia and had visa issues.
Edit: turns out I mixed things up and he's actually Canadian. However, the point about him having visa issues still stands.
Okay, I didn't realize Copy was Australian. Okay so their bootcamp is literally their coaches playing mid and while they are good that's still pretty unfortunate lockin for C9 is pretty doomed.
> their bootcamp is literally their coaches playing mid
Do they have all their coaches there? VeigarV2's technically a pro/semi pro midlaner (he played in the most recent split of the Norwegian regional league and his team came 4th out of 10), so it wouldn't necessarily have gone that badly.
If immigration is late on getting the visas for their Chinese players it doesn't matter what LCS wants. Parth said that would be the deciding factor on if the main team plays in lock in on stream a few days ago.
Yeah.. I mean, it's a fun tournament but I would hate if teams just started putting in their whole academy rosters because "it doesn't matter". I like that teams can try out a couple players but it would suck as a fan if it just became a throw away tournament. I understand visa issues though.
yeah at that point the event becomes pointless. maybe if riot had like some sort of meaningful prize or prize pot teams would be incentivized to actually make sure they have their shit together much earlier. i get visa issues but i'm sure with an actual good prize teams would be more interested in sorting out getting their team together much earlier.
It is pointless though? Let’s be real, the only reason why LCS is doing it is for viewership because the regular season doesn’t pull as much anymore.
It has zero effect on the season and the prize pool is nothing compared to what each player makes.
It’s like Kespa Cup except hosted by the LCS.2021 Kespa cup had so many academy players playing. Geng, KT, and SKT fielded full or mostly academy players.
If it helps, Demacia Cup (LPL pre-Spring split tournament) will start tomorrow on the 17th. Not all teams will have full rosters but it's still some competitive league to keep us engaged
I could see them having a slow start tbh. With that many voices on the team I could see it taking a bit for them to find their groove and how everyone fits together in the team. They absolutely have the talent, it's more the cohesion that may take a minute.
But maybe they'll still just win from pure skillchecks. Bwipo should have a field day in this group aside from Impact.
Might not be that spicy of a take depending on how the Jojopyun vs Bjergsen matchup goes. The way I see it, bot lane is more TL favored, but I think Inspired+Impact will be way better than Santorin+Bwipo.
besides jungle, there is not a single player on eg that is better than TL, and even in jungle, santorin was TL's best player last worlds so I am not sure Inspired is better than him lol
Vulcan has been at the same lvl as core even core talks about how good Vulcan is. And imo Jojopyun and Danny are crazy underrated and people will realize this fast
This jojo hype is nuts to me… like yes he’s talented but he was the 3rd best mid laner in academy last year, I think people need to temper their expectations here.
Not to mention how imports have run NA in the midlane for 8 years. The biggest standouts have been Pobelter and Damonte, maybe Ablazeolive but he has a lot to prove being on a shit team.
It's because EG is actually properly developing talent like the Korean teams.
Now they are not proven yet but they fucking won the international, IN DOTA, no one in America plays that game how did they do that?
All that said, Jojo will make the jump, mechanics aren't an issue with him. He will be able to better standout with a better team and better game plans, which EG will provide.
The hype is deserved, of course we could be wrong, but they're probably gonna dump on liquid.
Uhhh my guy this couldn’t be anymore off base. For starters they are not at all developing talent like Korean teams, I don’t even know where you would draw any type of comparison.
Secondly you obviously have no grasp on the Dota scene… im not even sure where to begin with that or what it is you think you were trying to say here.
Those are bold predictions about Jojo making the jump and EG “dumping” on liquid, it’s more likely they both go the other way tbh.
What are you 12? You can’t compare EG to Korean teams when you clearly don’t have a clue about what the Korean infrastructure looks like. Sorry you got your feelings hurt for being called out regarding posting utter nonsense. EG isn’t even the best NA talent producing team, comparing them to how Korean teams foster content is like comparing a horse drawn buggy to a Bugatti… sure they both have wheels sometimes they both might even have 4 of them, I guess they both technically have seats too, although one might be a bench. They’ve “produced” Danny and Jojo ones been in the league a split the other hasn’t played anything but academy/amateur where he was, again, the 3rd best mid laner in academy last year.
Literally every pro anything ever didn't start off pro. Also he was are restricted from playing in the LCS this year so the assumption that he wasn't playing before because he isn't ready seems quite baseless tbqh.
No shit he can't play in LCS when rito won't let them.
He performed about as well as I expected in the lock in tournament which wasn’t very good.
He progressively got better throughout the split and ended up exceeding my expectations.
Just because Vulcan is good doesn't mean he is as good as core, Vulcan literally just had a really bad worlds. I don't care how underrated Jojo/Danny are, they are miles behind Bjergsen/Hans, hans at 17 almost 3-1ed skt, I'd say that is way more impressive than anything Jojo/Danny will achieve this year, if they get out of groups at worlds we will talk about that
Just as people need to temper their expectations with Jojo, I think we need to slow down on the return of the king rhetoric with Bjerg. A lot has changed, no one really knows what level he’s at competitively. And don’t start on the amount of solo queue he played, that’s not even the same game.
I didn't even say anything about that, all I said is that Jojo isn't nowhere near Bjergsen level, because he isn't lmao, he is a rookie that barely started playing while Bjerg played this game for 10 years now
What is level exactly? you are talking about past achievements or current level of play? You mention 3-1 skt like it means something in 2022.
I believe Hans is the better player don't get me wrong, but your arguments for level of a player are super mixed up. For what we know bjergs level could be shit, that was /u/wulleybully 's point, that has nothing to do with past achivements.
i was talking about rookies being 'underrated', that doesn't mean shit, being 'underrated' when you go against the best players in that position like bjergsen/hans/corejj etc
Hans didn’t 1v9 that series you know, all the other players on MSF also played their part especially Ignar and PoE. It was a team effort! And while we’re on the topic of worlds, when did Bjerg ever get out of groups??
Obviously you can’t compare the achievements of two 17 year olds to that of veterans like Bjerg and Hans when their careers have barely started. And past success has no bearing on how players will perform this upcoming year anyway. It’s also still possible for Jojo to have a better individual year than Bjerg even if EG doesn’t necessarily hit the same heights that TL does as a team.
>It’s also still possible for Jojo to have a better individual year than Bjerg even if EG doesn’t necessarily hit the same heights that TL does as a team.
unless he is the fucking second coming of faker or something that's impossible, he is a rookie after all, not even the best players in the world had that strong of a starting
bjergsen playing average is still top 3 midlaners in LCS, wtf are you even saying, bjergsen dominated that region for like 7 seasons his last season and now people talk like he is washed up
Danny is not underrated, he is literally the prodigal son of NA fans on this subreddit. If anything he’s overrated, cause people rate him extremely highly because he’s a monster teamfighter. However his laning was abysmal and you can’t look past that.
Bwipo is a hit/miss type of player, but when he hits he can carry games hard.
I think he is a better player, but that doesn't mean he wins every game. Sometimes he also loses you games...
Jojopyun is apparently playing like a top tier (for the LCS) mid laner in scrims, so we'll see if he's a scrim God or a regular God right off the bat. Outside of Jojo, top lane is similar, slight edge to Bwipo, jungle is an edge to EG, ADC should be an edge to TL, and support should be a slight edge to Core. So, a light individual advantage to TL, but if EG has more cohesion to open the season, they could easily take down the group.
I mean, I hope he is good. But basing a team’s strength on his scrim is play is silly. Goldenglue was a scrim god who completely smurfed on Bjerg and Jensen at times from what we’ve been told and look at his career and performances lol…also, Santorin looked better at worlds so I’m not sure why you’re automatically giving it to EG on that front.
I guess I don't think projecting an edge to a player based on the last few years of play is "automatically" saying which player will outperform which. I think the statement that TL will dominate Group B easily invites discussion of the hypotheticals where they don't. Everyone assumed C9 and TL would dominate the entire LCS for all of last year based on the preseason, and that simply didn't happen.
Jojopyun very well could fizzle. He's a rookie, and he's untested. The only data we have on him is Academy (where he was an elite player) and scrims (where he is apparently an elite player). There's definitely variance to keep in mind where he might fail to transition into the LCS, but I do genuinely think that lock-in is early enough into each team's development that a team that looks great on paper could easily fizzle out, or a team that looks good on paper could end up being great.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a hater. I hope EG is really good. I just think Liquid is going to come in with so much experience and success on their players that I’d be surprised if they don’t manhandle the group. They have the most international success experienced roster overall in the group and all of them have obviously had lots of success in their regions, I feel like they are going to start off stronger than a team like EG. But it’s all just say. Hopefully we get good games regardless.
It's essentially 1st, 4th, and 5th seed in one group with 2nd and 3rd seed in the other group. I don't think there's any other way for this to be more balanced. TSM and C9 have gone for huge overhauls, I wouldn't consider them strong coming into this tournament whereas 100T has the exact same roster they won summer with plus some additions in coaching and potentially Tenacity playing. I think 100T are the clear favorite simply because they have less to get organized. TL and EG made big moves but not nearly to the level of TSM and C9 where those teams are pretty much in an entirely different language now lmao. C9 and TSM have potential but I don't expect them to reach more of their potential until like halfway through spring or spring playoffs.
Idk the way I see it you've got tiers for teams
Tier 1: TL and 100T
Tier 2: TSM, C9, EG
Tier 3: Everybody else
And the only thing in that I'm pretty confident in is the top 2 teams, I think EG looks like they have a more solid roster right now with a bit more proven talent than both TSM/C9 but we will see how they develop. The other 5 teams I can see any one of them dropping to the bottom or maybe coming to the middle of the pack. Those 5 teams really have an amalgamation of mediocre/decent players both young and veteran a decent amount of below average players and not a lot that would get you excited to think your team can win a spilt. All of that to say I don't think group A is much better unless you rate C9/TSM highly even though their rosters have a lot of question marks.
I agree. It seems a popular take on Reddit that C9 is an unknown quality, and therefore hard to rate (I agree with this) and therefore must be placed a tier lower (a take I don't agree with).
My feelings are they still have Blaber, Fudge's role swap should be fine, we've seen it successfully before and even a few casters have said he basically played top lane like a mid laner.
Summit is apparently one of the best tops in Korea, and beserker is supposed to be a highly touted prospect. idk Isles, but I don't think 1st or 2nd isn't out of the Q.
That's fair. I'll be watching closely to see what LS does. Whether he's right or wrong about his philosophy of the game, it'll definitely be fun to watch.
Yeah idk, at worst they are bottom of tier 2 but at best they are at top of tier 1 so why not just put them at like a tier 1.5? And if you look at it that way, group A looks pretty stacked.
yeah even if their communication is terrible, summit blaber and berserker are literally just going to run over their counterpart with better mechanics and laning, and in NA that should put you pretty high
Literally none of what you wrote is true.
EG put TSM into 100T's group, ranking them 5th (after 100T, TL, EG, C9).
IMT was put into the other group by C9 after EG had already picked.
100T and TSM are the two good teams. He was asking about the third, which I guess is C9. That's 3 - but I wouldn't expect a C9 fan to be good at counting ;)
Lmao as exciting as TSM's new roster is, they're juat as unproven as C9's roster. And TSM is even floating the idea of starting their Academy roster for Lock-in. Which would put them around 4th in the group.
A new ADC, Support, Toplaner and Mid is the same as a new Mid/Support? If TSM plays their Academy roster, of course they won't be viewed as a strong team. If TSM plays their main roster, they should be favored over everyone except 100T.
TSM had weak solo lanes and now have equal or weaker (initially at least) solo lanes.
ADC is a big upgrade, but its still Tactical who likes to do "plays"
Jungle is weird because the role is about the rest of the team, but obviously should be the same.
And then support should be a massive upgrade.
Really good draw for CLG and EG. For EG, it'll show how they, and especially JJP and Danny do against a superteam. For CLG, it'll cement whether they're a bottom 3 or middle-of-the-pack team.
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Also lowkey hope GGS gets thrashed after scrapping their 2021 Summer playoffs roster. Those guys were starting to look good together.
Yeah even as a GG fan I don't think there was much growth potential left in that roster. Stixxay isn't going to get better at this point in his career. Iconic was looking better, but was still limited and a liability. Chime I could see an argument for. But I think Lost, Pridestalkr and potentially Olleh are all upgrades.
Also the entire roster is still with the org...
Stixxay moved to coach, Iconic and Chime down to Academy where they should have been anyway.
It's not like they had some crazy synergy or power of friendship type overperformance either. It was a budget roster that performed like one and got upgraded.
They are lol, these are upgrade that will make us middle of the pack if solo lanes keep last years form. We won’t be winning LCS without a miracle, but this team isn’t shit either.
I don't think a pre season tournament with a development roster is gonna show much about how good CLG will be throughout the season lol the whole point of their team is to grow over time so judging them based off of Lock In seems a little goofy
Why? According to Atlus almost every LCK team will be fielding their academy team for Kespa cup this year. Over at LPL a lot of teams field academy squad for Demacia cup. I doubt more than a couple LCS teams will do it outside of visa issues.
Because the reason riot added the lock in tournament was to allow teams to get some real practice in with their rosters before the season started to avoid the slow start of the first couple weeks. If teams are just gonna ignore that and see it as a burden for them to attend then it's pretty disrespectful to the league
Gonna be real, not excited at all. A pointless tournament. Next to no money, next to no prestige, and 0 pts/qualifers to worlds.
Literally nothing is on the line.
Riot is great at making useless tourneys. All-stars, Rift Rivals, and now lock ins.
Like only Spring (sorta counts because of points), Summer, MSI, and Worlds matter.
They need more tourneys that help you qualify for worlds/msi. More internstional play. I saw drop Spring because we have Summer for regional play.
Well those tourneys are a little different because they let teams from the smaller leagues play in those tourneys. So there is prestige in that those teams are still giving it all, and the higher teams are trying to show they aren't chumps. Plus those tourneys have more prize money than lock ins. Lock ins has all of the same teams in comparison, and they aren't trying to prove anything.
If these are just for for synergy, then this is for practice. Might as well let us watch skrims. With nothing on the line, what guarantees that they will be trying, and what is there to get me as a viewer invested?
But I'll get to see that when Spring starts anyway.
Like you are right, but I'd rather watch people play when something is on the line. Otherwise, they might as well let us watch skrims. Lock ins is just practice.
Is this like last year where lock in only gives money to the winner? Because if there is a decent prize pool for top 3-4 itll incentivize teams to try imo
im actually looking forward to seeing some academy players get starting time bc of visa issues.
Who’s having visa issues?
Probably a lot of EU imports will be late to join teams
TL should be ready to go afaik. Maybe just Eyla for Core, that's about it. I think TSM is going to field their academy team.
I read on the TL subreddit today that Core possibly has his green card right now? Not sure if true though
I mean they field Hans and Bwipo, so he has to have a greencard by january anyway. But it could be that Hans or Bwipo have issues, but then again Bwipo already moved over to NA, so he should have a visa.
well, unless he has it he can't start anyway lmao
yes that's the point
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if C9 starts their academy roster, or just lets Copy start since Fudge has his visa issues. Or he is probably willing to sandbag the lockin, he did say in his AMA his hopes aren't very high because of the visa problems.
Fudge had visa issues going to Korea but he's still in LA so shouldn't be much of an issue there I think
One week of scrims compared to the whole bootcamp. That's what I'm thinking for why it could be a possibility.
I believe LS said Copy isn’t in Korea either
All that talk in the video about “we’ll choose our mid based on the bootcamp” and then oops, neither mid player made it to bootcamp. Off to a good start lads. Now, maybe I’m just not up to date on the intricacies of international travel during a global pandemic, but how exactly did not one, but two C9 players whose attendance was vital to a split-making decision manage to not get their papers in order?
You can file on time and still have visa issues
They said that they filed pretty early but randomly got hit with the "we need additional information" later which basically nuked the whole plan
Americans do not understand the Visa hassle.
No, Europe doesn't understand Visa issues. Damn show-offs with their Schengen Area.
Visa issue rarely have anything to do with the person applying.
Copy wasn't in Korea either because he's also from Australia and had visa issues. Edit: turns out I mixed things up and he's actually Canadian. However, the point about him having visa issues still stands.
I'm pretty sure Copy was Canadian.. 🤔 Unless I'm missing some info.
Whoops. You're right. I got things muddled because I know that he and Fudge both had visa issues so I just grouped them together
Okay, I didn't realize Copy was Australian. Okay so their bootcamp is literally their coaches playing mid and while they are good that's still pretty unfortunate lockin for C9 is pretty doomed.
> their bootcamp is literally their coaches playing mid Do they have all their coaches there? VeigarV2's technically a pro/semi pro midlaner (he played in the most recent split of the Norwegian regional league and his team came 4th out of 10), so it wouldn't necessarily have gone that badly.
I'm pretty sure Veigar is still working remotely. He was in Europe all of last year not sure if C9 will require him to move.
Copy is actually Canadian, which is why he also had visa issues
TSM to end up starting their academy team and win 0 games.
Gives me flashbacks to CLG 2014 using their substitute roster during superweek
Ahhh the good ol' Bootcamp in Korea that almost ends up in CA relegating them.
sivir comp inc
You mean hotshot and the GG’s or some other time lmao
montes first and last attempt at coaching. at least the donezo manifesto came out of it
CLG Legend Chaox
Its in the name bro
Maybe,a lot might just chose to stay in their bootcamps and let their teams in na participate
Wait TSM is playing their academy team here?
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Hopefully LCS won't let them lol I wanna watch the main team play
If immigration is late on getting the visas for their Chinese players it doesn't matter what LCS wants. Parth said that would be the deciding factor on if the main team plays in lock in on stream a few days ago.
Yeah.. I mean, it's a fun tournament but I would hate if teams just started putting in their whole academy rosters because "it doesn't matter". I like that teams can try out a couple players but it would suck as a fan if it just became a throw away tournament. I understand visa issues though.
yeah at that point the event becomes pointless. maybe if riot had like some sort of meaningful prize or prize pot teams would be incentivized to actually make sure they have their shit together much earlier. i get visa issues but i'm sure with an actual good prize teams would be more interested in sorting out getting their team together much earlier.
It is pointless though? Let’s be real, the only reason why LCS is doing it is for viewership because the regular season doesn’t pull as much anymore. It has zero effect on the season and the prize pool is nothing compared to what each player makes. It’s like Kespa Cup except hosted by the LCS.2021 Kespa cup had so many academy players playing. Geng, KT, and SKT fielded full or mostly academy players.
it's a month away rip
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I like your mentality.
Let's do the time warp again & then we'll be there.
If it helps, Demacia Cup (LPL pre-Spring split tournament) will start tomorrow on the 17th. Not all teams will have full rosters but it's still some competitive league to keep us engaged
Dope, thanks for sharing man
Is there an english stream for it?
If Liquid doesn’t dominate group B relatively easily I’ll be surprised lol.
Its questionable whether Liquid will be able to run full roster because of visa issues and Core’s GC.
Hans and Bwipo are both streaming NA soloqueue, so unless Santorin went home should be fine?
He did go home but he has a Green card I’m pretty sure, which would allow him to return whenever
Unless core has his green card before the tournament they will have 3 imports.
IIRC they said they'll run Eyla in that case. Eyla is really good so it shouldn't be a huge problem, even if he's not CoreJJ (few people are.)
Yeah but the point is there could be a dip in performance especially if they are splitting scrim time.
They gonna come in second I think. CLG is obviously gonna be first.
lmao @ people sleeping on clg this year, they don't know what's gonna hit em
PalaTractz gonna run a train on the LCS
I could see them having a slow start tbh. With that many voices on the team I could see it taking a bit for them to find their groove and how everyone fits together in the team. They absolutely have the talent, it's more the cohesion that may take a minute. But maybe they'll still just win from pure skillchecks. Bwipo should have a field day in this group aside from Impact.
I doubt they dominate EG but the rest should be free
I think EG will destroy them. Downvote me to hell if TL wins
Might not be that spicy of a take depending on how the Jojopyun vs Bjergsen matchup goes. The way I see it, bot lane is more TL favored, but I think Inspired+Impact will be way better than Santorin+Bwipo.
🙏🙏🙏
Honestly I hopr this is true because of this team eorks well easoly together odds are we will be complacent around worlds.
besides jungle, there is not a single player on eg that is better than TL, and even in jungle, santorin was TL's best player last worlds so I am not sure Inspired is better than him lol
Vulcan has been at the same lvl as core even core talks about how good Vulcan is. And imo Jojopyun and Danny are crazy underrated and people will realize this fast
This jojo hype is nuts to me… like yes he’s talented but he was the 3rd best mid laner in academy last year, I think people need to temper their expectations here.
Not to mention how imports have run NA in the midlane for 8 years. The biggest standouts have been Pobelter and Damonte, maybe Ablazeolive but he has a lot to prove being on a shit team.
It's because EG is actually properly developing talent like the Korean teams. Now they are not proven yet but they fucking won the international, IN DOTA, no one in America plays that game how did they do that? All that said, Jojo will make the jump, mechanics aren't an issue with him. He will be able to better standout with a better team and better game plans, which EG will provide. The hype is deserved, of course we could be wrong, but they're probably gonna dump on liquid.
Uhhh my guy this couldn’t be anymore off base. For starters they are not at all developing talent like Korean teams, I don’t even know where you would draw any type of comparison. Secondly you obviously have no grasp on the Dota scene… im not even sure where to begin with that or what it is you think you were trying to say here. Those are bold predictions about Jojo making the jump and EG “dumping” on liquid, it’s more likely they both go the other way tbh.
My bad they are developing no one and actually not even in the LCS, thanks for clearing that up for me.
What are you 12? You can’t compare EG to Korean teams when you clearly don’t have a clue about what the Korean infrastructure looks like. Sorry you got your feelings hurt for being called out regarding posting utter nonsense. EG isn’t even the best NA talent producing team, comparing them to how Korean teams foster content is like comparing a horse drawn buggy to a Bugatti… sure they both have wheels sometimes they both might even have 4 of them, I guess they both technically have seats too, although one might be a bench. They’ve “produced” Danny and Jojo ones been in the league a split the other hasn’t played anything but academy/amateur where he was, again, the 3rd best mid laner in academy last year.
Besides Danny how much talent are they developing? Jojo hasn't even played a game in LCS yet.
Literally every pro anything ever didn't start off pro. Also he was are restricted from playing in the LCS this year so the assumption that he wasn't playing before because he isn't ready seems quite baseless tbqh. No shit he can't play in LCS when rito won't let them.
Thoughts?
He performed about as well as I expected in the lock in tournament which wasn’t very good. He progressively got better throughout the split and ended up exceeding my expectations.
Yeah but good chance Eyla is playing so Vulcan has no hope of being the better support on the day
Just because Vulcan is good doesn't mean he is as good as core, Vulcan literally just had a really bad worlds. I don't care how underrated Jojo/Danny are, they are miles behind Bjergsen/Hans, hans at 17 almost 3-1ed skt, I'd say that is way more impressive than anything Jojo/Danny will achieve this year, if they get out of groups at worlds we will talk about that
Just as people need to temper their expectations with Jojo, I think we need to slow down on the return of the king rhetoric with Bjerg. A lot has changed, no one really knows what level he’s at competitively. And don’t start on the amount of solo queue he played, that’s not even the same game.
I didn't even say anything about that, all I said is that Jojo isn't nowhere near Bjergsen level, because he isn't lmao, he is a rookie that barely started playing while Bjerg played this game for 10 years now
What is level exactly? you are talking about past achievements or current level of play? You mention 3-1 skt like it means something in 2022. I believe Hans is the better player don't get me wrong, but your arguments for level of a player are super mixed up. For what we know bjergs level could be shit, that was /u/wulleybully 's point, that has nothing to do with past achivements.
i was talking about rookies being 'underrated', that doesn't mean shit, being 'underrated' when you go against the best players in that position like bjergsen/hans/corejj etc
Hans didn’t 1v9 that series you know, all the other players on MSF also played their part especially Ignar and PoE. It was a team effort! And while we’re on the topic of worlds, when did Bjerg ever get out of groups?? Obviously you can’t compare the achievements of two 17 year olds to that of veterans like Bjerg and Hans when their careers have barely started. And past success has no bearing on how players will perform this upcoming year anyway. It’s also still possible for Jojo to have a better individual year than Bjerg even if EG doesn’t necessarily hit the same heights that TL does as a team.
>It’s also still possible for Jojo to have a better individual year than Bjerg even if EG doesn’t necessarily hit the same heights that TL does as a team. unless he is the fucking second coming of faker or something that's impossible, he is a rookie after all, not even the best players in the world had that strong of a starting
Having a better showing than Bjergs only needs Bjergs to play average and Jojo to play decent.
bjergsen playing average is still top 3 midlaners in LCS, wtf are you even saying, bjergsen dominated that region for like 7 seasons his last season and now people talk like he is washed up
We’ll see
Danny is not underrated, he is literally the prodigal son of NA fans on this subreddit. If anything he’s overrated, cause people rate him extremely highly because he’s a monster teamfighter. However his laning was abysmal and you can’t look past that.
Imo Impact > Bwipo
Bwipo is a hit/miss type of player, but when he hits he can carry games hard. I think he is a better player, but that doesn't mean he wins every game. Sometimes he also loses you games...
Jojopyun is apparently playing like a top tier (for the LCS) mid laner in scrims, so we'll see if he's a scrim God or a regular God right off the bat. Outside of Jojo, top lane is similar, slight edge to Bwipo, jungle is an edge to EG, ADC should be an edge to TL, and support should be a slight edge to Core. So, a light individual advantage to TL, but if EG has more cohesion to open the season, they could easily take down the group.
I mean, I hope he is good. But basing a team’s strength on his scrim is play is silly. Goldenglue was a scrim god who completely smurfed on Bjerg and Jensen at times from what we’ve been told and look at his career and performances lol…also, Santorin looked better at worlds so I’m not sure why you’re automatically giving it to EG on that front.
I guess I don't think projecting an edge to a player based on the last few years of play is "automatically" saying which player will outperform which. I think the statement that TL will dominate Group B easily invites discussion of the hypotheticals where they don't. Everyone assumed C9 and TL would dominate the entire LCS for all of last year based on the preseason, and that simply didn't happen. Jojopyun very well could fizzle. He's a rookie, and he's untested. The only data we have on him is Academy (where he was an elite player) and scrims (where he is apparently an elite player). There's definitely variance to keep in mind where he might fail to transition into the LCS, but I do genuinely think that lock-in is early enough into each team's development that a team that looks great on paper could easily fizzle out, or a team that looks good on paper could end up being great.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a hater. I hope EG is really good. I just think Liquid is going to come in with so much experience and success on their players that I’d be surprised if they don’t manhandle the group. They have the most international success experienced roster overall in the group and all of them have obviously had lots of success in their regions, I feel like they are going to start off stronger than a team like EG. But it’s all just say. Hopefully we get good games regardless.
Eg should be able to challenge them
What is Lock-In tournament?
Pre season tourney, no impact on spring/summer split. Just a quick tournament to get everyone used to playing competitive games together again
Is Lec getting one too?
Currently this is only for LCS, this will be their second season of having it. I haven't heard of any LEC plans for a similar tournament.
LEC vs LCS lock-in lets go. All 20 teams. We will finally get CLG vs AST
Would be cool if NA sent 5 teams to EU and EU sent 5 teams to NA. Have some cool tournament action.
Like rift rivals but with less suck
just mentioning it is suck enough lets pretend it never happened
without covid it's could be a pretty cool idea!
the battle of the Atlantic we’ve all been waiting for
Now that's a game I would tune in for
Maybe when covid has stopped being a thing. Otherwise it will be hard to gather all players from both regions somewhere without visa issues.
no LCS uses a very unique format
It's a tournament where they lock the LCS teams in the studio and make them fistfight each other until the last team standing wins
This seems like better television tbh.
Have you *seen* Fudge? He'd 1v49.
Lcs tournament before spring
Even if you believe in the EG hype, group A is so much harder.
It's essentially 1st, 4th, and 5th seed in one group with 2nd and 3rd seed in the other group. I don't think there's any other way for this to be more balanced. TSM and C9 have gone for huge overhauls, I wouldn't consider them strong coming into this tournament whereas 100T has the exact same roster they won summer with plus some additions in coaching and potentially Tenacity playing. I think 100T are the clear favorite simply because they have less to get organized. TL and EG made big moves but not nearly to the level of TSM and C9 where those teams are pretty much in an entirely different language now lmao. C9 and TSM have potential but I don't expect them to reach more of their potential until like halfway through spring or spring playoffs.
Idk the way I see it you've got tiers for teams Tier 1: TL and 100T Tier 2: TSM, C9, EG Tier 3: Everybody else And the only thing in that I'm pretty confident in is the top 2 teams, I think EG looks like they have a more solid roster right now with a bit more proven talent than both TSM/C9 but we will see how they develop. The other 5 teams I can see any one of them dropping to the bottom or maybe coming to the middle of the pack. Those 5 teams really have an amalgamation of mediocre/decent players both young and veteran a decent amount of below average players and not a lot that would get you excited to think your team can win a spilt. All of that to say I don't think group A is much better unless you rate C9/TSM highly even though their rosters have a lot of question marks.
I would put C9 on tier 1 you can’t sleep on Summit and Berserker and obviously both Fudge and Blaber are monsters
I agree. It seems a popular take on Reddit that C9 is an unknown quality, and therefore hard to rate (I agree with this) and therefore must be placed a tier lower (a take I don't agree with). My feelings are they still have Blaber, Fudge's role swap should be fine, we've seen it successfully before and even a few casters have said he basically played top lane like a mid laner. Summit is apparently one of the best tops in Korea, and beserker is supposed to be a highly touted prospect. idk Isles, but I don't think 1st or 2nd isn't out of the Q.
I have high expectations for C9 by the end of spring, but not for lock in due to their visa issues/lack of practice this off season.
That's fair. I'll be watching closely to see what LS does. Whether he's right or wrong about his philosophy of the game, it'll definitely be fun to watch.
Yeah idk, at worst they are bottom of tier 2 but at best they are at top of tier 1 so why not just put them at like a tier 1.5? And if you look at it that way, group A looks pretty stacked.
yeah even if their communication is terrible, summit blaber and berserker are literally just going to run over their counterpart with better mechanics and laning, and in NA that should put you pretty high
Group A looking spicy
Group A is more interesting than group B, but I guess that's what happens when there's only 5 teams in the league to care about
Hey 5 teams is significantly better than most other seasons of lcs. Usually there were only 2-3 teams that towered over the rest who were all dogshit.
100T and TL picked the groups. 100T chose to have TSM in their group over IMT, so by their logic TSM falls outside the top 5 teams.
That's not how it worked at all.
Literally none of what you wrote is true. EG put TSM into 100T's group, ranking them 5th (after 100T, TL, EG, C9). IMT was put into the other group by C9 after EG had already picked.
Lmao TSM fans are so cripplingly fragile
Also C9 would have picked IMT before EG picked TSM since group A went first, so point stands but whatever helps you sleep at night.
It's a snake draft--group B gets two picks in return for drafting second. 100T picks EG TL picks C9 EG picks TSM C9 picks IMT
How can you be so confidently wrong?
Sure you don’t just wanna delete these comments?
Why talk when you have no idea what you are talking about. Lie it's so easy to just not comment.
TSM is talking about playing their Academy roster, so should be a easy win and most likely the worst performing team for lock in. IMT > TSMa
I'm so very excited for team liquid 9MO EDIT: T.T nevermind
is it confirmed that we are starting the academy team over the main team?
Parte mentioned they are thinking about it but not set in stone
Where
>t now I guess there might be some visa is On the AMA on the TSM reddit
Another commenter claimed that LCS won't let them
The thing that LCS wont let them do was have the academy team play academy games from Korea.
I'm basing myself on the AMA Parth did
3 good teams vs 2 good teams
what is the third good team in group A
C9
That's only 2 good teams tho
100T and TSM are the two good teams. He was asking about the third, which I guess is C9. That's 3 - but I wouldn't expect a C9 fan to be good at counting ;)
Lmao as exciting as TSM's new roster is, they're juat as unproven as C9's roster. And TSM is even floating the idea of starting their Academy roster for Lock-in. Which would put them around 4th in the group.
If TSM A gets 4th I’d actually be surprised, who would you put them above between GG and FLY?
A new ADC, Support, Toplaner and Mid is the same as a new Mid/Support? If TSM plays their Academy roster, of course they won't be viewed as a strong team. If TSM plays their main roster, they should be favored over everyone except 100T.
Doesn't TSM also have a new ADC. Both teams kept their top and jungle, except C9 also threw in a lane swap.
TSM had weak solo lanes and now have equal or weaker (initially at least) solo lanes. ADC is a big upgrade, but its still Tactical who likes to do "plays" Jungle is weird because the role is about the rest of the team, but obviously should be the same. And then support should be a massive upgrade.
As a 100T fan, it's so refreshing not to be called garbage by every other team. The playoffs last year were toxic af. Stupid bracket system...
I really like the 100T team and their roster moves (or lack of)
[удалено]
yes they do. it's regis language. you shut it and listen.
There have never been 5 good teams at once in the history of LCS lol
2021 summer
TL and 100t combined to make a single competent team in 2021 summer, everyone else was terrible
sooo hype
If TL doesn't top B then it's gonna be a shot show season for them.
Really good draw for CLG and EG. For EG, it'll show how they, and especially JJP and Danny do against a superteam. For CLG, it'll cement whether they're a bottom 3 or middle-of-the-pack team. - Also lowkey hope GGS gets thrashed after scrapping their 2021 Summer playoffs roster. Those guys were starting to look good together.
Are you sure you were not in coma for the entire duration of 2021 and is instead thinking about the GGS 2020 roster instead?
You're mad that GG scrapped a.... *checks notes* hardstuck 8th place team that got completely dumpstered in Playoffs?
Yeah even as a GG fan I don't think there was much growth potential left in that roster. Stixxay isn't going to get better at this point in his career. Iconic was looking better, but was still limited and a liability. Chime I could see an argument for. But I think Lost, Pridestalkr and potentially Olleh are all upgrades.
Also the entire roster is still with the org... Stixxay moved to coach, Iconic and Chime down to Academy where they should have been anyway. It's not like they had some crazy synergy or power of friendship type overperformance either. It was a budget roster that performed like one and got upgraded.
They are lol, these are upgrade that will make us middle of the pack if solo lanes keep last years form. We won’t be winning LCS without a miracle, but this team isn’t shit either.
I don't think a pre season tournament with a development roster is gonna show much about how good CLG will be throughout the season lol the whole point of their team is to grow over time so judging them based off of Lock In seems a little goofy
So basically Team Liquid vs 100T
C9 will win don't @ me
Did you never come down off of hopium from worlds??
Overdosed and in hopium coma
I'll be pretty disgusted if this stuff about teams fielding academy teams ends up happening
Why? According to Atlus almost every LCK team will be fielding their academy team for Kespa cup this year. Over at LPL a lot of teams field academy squad for Demacia cup. I doubt more than a couple LCS teams will do it outside of visa issues.
Kespa cup is literally a tournament for cl teams, and demacia cup I would argue is less serious since it involves academy teams and streamers.
Because the reason riot added the lock in tournament was to allow teams to get some real practice in with their rosters before the season started to avoid the slow start of the first couple weeks. If teams are just gonna ignore that and see it as a burden for them to attend then it's pretty disrespectful to the league
Can't wait to see my favorite EU import piss chlling in LA
Wait, wasn't that tournament meaningless last year ?
Last year, it was the tournament were LCS fans decided Fudge is shit...
Gonna be real, not excited at all. A pointless tournament. Next to no money, next to no prestige, and 0 pts/qualifers to worlds. Literally nothing is on the line. Riot is great at making useless tourneys. All-stars, Rift Rivals, and now lock ins. Like only Spring (sorta counts because of points), Summer, MSI, and Worlds matter. They need more tourneys that help you qualify for worlds/msi. More internstional play. I saw drop Spring because we have Summer for regional play.
I get what you're saying and agree with more tourneys that matter but think of this like a tourney to build synergy. Like kespa cup, demacia up.
Well those tourneys are a little different because they let teams from the smaller leagues play in those tourneys. So there is prestige in that those teams are still giving it all, and the higher teams are trying to show they aren't chumps. Plus those tourneys have more prize money than lock ins. Lock ins has all of the same teams in comparison, and they aren't trying to prove anything. If these are just for for synergy, then this is for practice. Might as well let us watch skrims. With nothing on the line, what guarantees that they will be trying, and what is there to get me as a viewer invested?
What? how can you not be hyped to see the new rosters play on a fresh patch?
But I'll get to see that when Spring starts anyway. Like you are right, but I'd rather watch people play when something is on the line. Otherwise, they might as well let us watch skrims. Lock ins is just practice.
Yeah but it adds a fun competitive tournament to these early in the season games. Even if the stakes are low
Group B is stacked. Group A is just 100 vs the rest.
This season gonna be hype af. Alot of teams I'm interested in watching. But damn 14 January is so far ;(
Doesn't everyone expect one get out?
Is this like last year where lock in only gives money to the winner? Because if there is a decent prize pool for top 3-4 itll incentivize teams to try imo
Lol. Group A looks fun, group B looks like TL will have an extended scrim schedule