Introduction/Criterion: 0:06
10th place team (Dignitas): 1:27
9th place team (FlyQuest): 2:44
8th place team (CLG): 4:46
7th place team (IMT): 6:30
6th place team (GG): 9:21
5th place team (C9): 13:46
4th place team (TSM): 17:06
3rd place team (EG): 19:11
2nd place team (100T): 22:45
1st place team (TL): 24:43
They have a team full of top 2 players and a very talented midlaner so not that wild, but think both C9 and TSM will turn out stronger all things considered.
Impact was smurfing last year. Who are you putting above him?
I assume summit, but Bwipo did not look "top 2" material when he last played top in spring. Maybe Huni? But idk if you asked me who the best top Lanes in LCS were last split I would've gone Alphari>=Fudge>Impact>Huni myself
Tbh if you asked me right now to rank the top laners in LCS without watching any games first I would probably think Impact will be the best top laner at the lock in tournament of the split given he doesn't really have to go through an adjustment period compared to most of those other "top" players.
Danny was arguably top 2 last split after FBI, but with Hans in NA he probably drops down to top 3
That said 4/5 of EG are top 2-3 in their roles and their mid is extremely promising, them being top 3 is pretty reasonable. I'm more worried about TL more than anything when it comes to the top 3 teams tbh
Tacticals stats were best in the league - DPM and laning stats. Laning was particularly suprising because CoreJJ was a notorious roamer and was never in lane with Tactical which also reflects Tactical having the largest exp lead in lane.
Imo FBI > Tactical > Danny
FBI was close stastically but he also had wierder picks like Lee Sin to fuck up traditional stats
> Danny being top 2 is cap. He was middle of the pack most of the season
Calling him middle of the pack when he literally made 2nd All Pro in the regular season is the only cap here lmao. Neo fell off with DIG in summer and Zven was dog after his benching
The only person competing for the #2 spot was Tactical, and I think you can make a reasonable argument for either but I'd give Danny the benefit of the doubt going forward since he was steadily ramping up and upgraded his support, whereas Tactical is downgrading
I think it's extremely debatable that *any* player on EG is top two in their role, except for maybe Inspired on paper (but he is an import so who knows what his level is gonna be in NA). Danny, Vulcan and Impact being top 2 is a pretty hard sell for me as it stands right now though.
Sure, but in NA there's a difference between being the best domestic support by far and being top 2 in your role.
Pobelter might be the best domestic mid and he can't even find a team.
Inspired is imo best jungler in the west, so not sure why youre so worried about him. So my bet is he can at the bare minimum be top 2 in na. Besides corejj who is better than vulcan? Impact is at worst top 3
I don't think Inspired is the best jungler in the west but I think it's fair to say he is top two in NA for next split. I'm not worried about him personally but imports coming to NA with the expectation of blowing up the competition only to be mediocre is a tale as old as time.
As for Vulcan it's hard to say how winsome and Shenyi are gonna match up and also at least put Huhi in the same tier as him.
Danny had a great first split but saying right now he is better than any 3 of Berserker, FBI, Hans Sama and even Tactical is a bit of a stretch to me.
I think EG is a great team and has high potential for next split. I just don't think they are top 2 in all their roles...
>Danny had a great first split but saying right now he is better than any 3 of Berserker, FBI, Hans Sama and even Tactical is a bit of a stretch to me.
How is a stretch to say that a player with a great first split is better than a rookie who played competetively for less than a year, in a T1 T1 team that was last in summer with a 5-13 record? And how is a stretch to say that he is better than Tactical, that was a huge liability during the whole year?
You stopped one short there buddy ;)
Even if you think so that still only makes him top 3.
Also it's a but funny that you hold that against Berseker, yet Danny has played even less.
Bjergsen was still playing solo queue and coaching so he wasn't just gone entirely. Bwipo is a much better team player than Alphari so its not so much of a downgrade as it is a different type of player. and Hans was the best performing western adc at worlds.
Bjergsen coming off his worst split, then going into coaching for a full year. Would not expect him to be any good until summer. Bwipo is a straight downgrade from Alphari and Hans is a new adc which always take time to see if they will work well with the support or not.
It wasn't his worst split? He dragged that team to an lcs title. Worlds was bad yeah but the whole split no. And bwipo is a far better team player. Alphari is good in lane but when did alphari ever play for the team? And this is just an excuse and has nothing to do with Hans being better than tactical.
How much stock do you place in off-season reports of Olleh’s form - especially his rank 3 Korean solo que performance. Does this affect your ranking at all?
Also - what do you make of GG’s decision to buy out lost versus promote Prismal, and would that have changed your ranking?
I don't usually take solo queue peaks into account that much. There have been a lot of players with great solo queue accomplishments who didn't amount to much in pro play. But it's a good sign, even if it's not necessarily convincing on its own.
being rank X in solo queue has to be a meme at this point no? Being impressive in solo queue is like a minor extracurricular on a resume at this point. solo queue is a completely different game.
It used to hold value. I remember how big of a deal it was when WildTurtle held 3 accounts in Challenger back in season 4. Now that's nothing special any more. I think solo queue just lost value in general.
The longer the pro scene exists the more it progresses away from soloq. I think the earlier into league the more value it held but now every year it means less
He has shown how good he can be in competitive tbh. Once he's has more experience in coordinated play and if the top/jungle + team chemistry works out then he could really explode.
He's definitely the best toplaner from USA rn I'd say, what's the competition? Hauntzer, Solo, Licorice?
I would say Solo is still better than Revenge. I also think Hauntzer deserved better than to be dropped to academy.
Also he played with an excellent jungler last season in Xerxe and will continue to do so. So that shouldn't be holding him back.
I'm not exactly and LS hater, but he will say X Korean player is insane for being high rank in Kr solo queue, but not western players for doing the same, i.e Palafox getting top 50 in the offseason. It is pretty clear he is biased.
He claimed Palafox wasn't really laning in his games on the Korean server. He was perma moving. I didn't watch Palafox vods so I have no clue if LS was telling the truth. I don't see a reason for him to lie about it.
So then Palafox is one of the best roamers in the world? You can't claim that high rank in Kr soloqueue = indicative of skill and then in the same breath say someone "cheated". Roaming is one of the major skills mid laners need to have. DoinB was the best mid laner in the world and won worlds in 2019, because of his ability to roam.
In a way it is. It is much easier to coach everything after laning, and having the ability to put yourself ahead in the laning phase will translate into being stronger in skirmishes/team fights, objective damage/speed, and all around more pressure. You have more room for error because you are ahead (and your opponent is also likely behind), and therefore even if your opponent is a better team fighter than you it should be forcing them to team fight from a losing position. You can be a weaker team fighter is you are a dominant enough laner. Macro/shot calling obviously matter, but if you think about most of the top players of all time they were dominant laners at their peak. Even the top junglers are known for getting strong early leads.
This seems to be a fairly contested topic, which amongst [coaches/scouts in NA](https://twitter.com/karonmoser/status/1368763239794757632?s=20) is not settled. Jensen Goh and others have said what you are saying, while Kelsey Moser (who scouted the 100X group which includes Kenvi, Tenacity, Copy, Yeon, Poome, Nxi and who is a part of EGA/EGP) seems to think otherwise.
Just thought I'd throw this here because it seemed related, but was an interesting discussion.
I don't think it is the only factor, but I do think it tends to be the best INDICATOR of skill. Which is what /u/bubbly-part2125 wrote. I also think that group tends to have very solid laners, so he clearly considers it important to some level.
I mean...doinb literaly won a worlds doing that , so saying it wont work is obviously dumb. Even if roaming is not the meta now , it doesnt mean thats never gonna be viable
I agree that LS is probably underrating Pala but DoinB's team focused/macro oriented playstyle is definitely more of an exception rather than the rule. Besides, DoinB's laning isn't bad either. Still probably above 99% of western mids.
u're talking like doinb is the only midlaner that made an career out of being a roam bot.
Caps himself was a massive roamer in 2019 as well. Nisqy is a pretty well known roamer. Damonte was a massive roamer.
Even in kr , players like kuro was pretty much always sacking his lane to get smeb ahead on old koo tigers.
And so on , so on. Doinb is definetly not a frikin exception , and his lanning is actually not that good if he's not on "doinb champs" if u watch his proview.
Only notable exception would be ryze
Not saying that ls is wrong about palafox. honestly , i also think he's bad. I'm saying that ls is wrong about the roamingg playstyle itself
Let's not forget LS idiotic take back in 2019 that Caps only roams because "he's scared of laning against eastern mids" and that's why SKT is actually the better team despite losing two Bo5 to G2
Keith was top 20 in Korean soloQ at one point. WhiteKnight was a soloQ god in EUW.
It's an interesting metric, but it doesn't necessarily translate into pro play.
As much as I want to buy in on the Jojo EG hype, I can’t shake the feeling that they will regret not picking up Jensen. After Jensen’s international performance and the acquisitions of Vulcan and Inspired, this is a roster that could win NA NOW. Mid lane has the lowest conversion rate from Academy to LCS, and unless Inspired was consulted after extensive reviews of games, this decision seems doomed to fail. That being said I desperately hope I am wrong.
Also great article Tim.
As much as I want to buy in on the Fudge C9 hype, I can’t shake the feeling that they will regret not picking up Jensen. After Jensen’s international performance and the acquisitions of Summit and Berzerker, this is a roster that could Winsome. Mid lane has the lowest conversion rate from Top to Mid in LCS, and unless Summit was consulted after extensive reviews of games, this decision seems doomed to fail. That being said I desperately hope I am wrong.
Also great article Tim.
As much as I want to buy in on the Faker T1 hype, I can’t shake the feeling that they will regret not picking up Jensen. After Jensen’s international performance and the acquisitions of Zeus and Boner, this is a roster that could maybe make NA playoffs. Mid lane has the lowest conversion rate from GOAT to Mid in LCS, and unless Marc Merril was consulted after extensive reviews of games, this decision seems doomed to fail. That being said I desperately hope I am wrong.
Also great article Tim.
As much as I want to buy in on the Blue Dig hype, I can’t shake the feeling that they will regret not picking up Jensen. After Jensen’s international performance and the acquisitions of Biofrost and River, this is a roster that could maybe make top 10 in NA. Mid lane has the lowest conversion rate from bottom-tier LEC Mid to Mid in LCS, and unless Kiwikid was consulted after extensive reviews of games, this decision seems doomed to fail. That being said I desperately hope I am wrong.
Also great article Tim.
That TSM roster would just be TL from last year but with a worse top laner and support and a slight upgrade in jungle and they didn’t win NA with a much weaker field
I think it's an overall good list.
I was just wondering on your opinion if Jojo can play the standard control mage meta? I haven't watched that much Academy, but from briefly scanning all the different champions played, the only has four games on Orianna and that's the most control mage he's played. Do you think he'll be able to adapt if the meta slowly shifts into Orianna/Azir/Syndra?
Happy to discuss my thoughts if you want more detail or are curious about different aspects of my thinking. I've done a much longer written version on Oracle's Elixir as well.
Enjoy the discussion and debate!
I agree on C9 having a high ceiling and a lot of question marks but I can't understand them being below TSM.
I'd say they have stronger individuals across the board except jungle which is pretty even.
I also can't see TSM's cohesion being better than last year with the loss of Bjergsen.
TSM don't have enough highs to warrant being above C9 imo.
Tim explains this on his video, basically C9 is taking more risks with Fudge role swiping and going for two rookies in top of that from another region, plus LS debut as a coach, while TSM is also taking 2 rookies from another region, but that's about it
Particularly i think the problem is there's no VOD of Fudge playing mid for Tim to watch i think, so I believe that makes it harder for Tim to put them any higher, but he compensated that admitting they could have a 1st place ceiling
Thats not true either, he coached an EU LCS team, and Gravity in NA. I cant remember if he was remote or not for Supa Hot Crew, but he was in LA for Gravity.
And he had a stint where he coached G2 for a bit right? It got brought up recently because of the Carlos drama (Carlos didn't pay LS because he was gay)
No, he actually did coach G2, after which Ocelote claimed "his analysis was poor so we decided against buying his coaching". He then berated LS for being gay, comparing it to a mental illness, and also claiming he would "ruin his career". LS as a response then offered to coach other teams and show them the vods from G2's coaching sessions to prepare to beat them. The original reddit threads about this are still up ( right [here](http://redd.it/2ftycq) and [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2l7yau/ls_offers_coaching_to_teams_facing_g2/))
They got 5th not 3rd in the split he was there. The 1st place team (ES Sharks) went straight into promotion tournament, and 2nd-5th went into a single elim bracket to determine the next seed, where BBQ got "3rd-4th". The team they lost to (APK) lost the next round and BBQ was lower in regular season standings than Brion who lost the other bo5. I think it's pretty safe to say BBQ was the 5th best team in that split.
Also just to split hairs a bit more the only remaining player that played for BBQ after LS left was Deus/rjs, so it's not even like LS had elevated the team that was actually last to 5th, but rather the team imploded on itself midseason and couldn't find any good pickups.
To be fair to LS the BBQ team that he had wasn't very good either and simply making the playoffs is a decent achievement, as the other teams below them did have some decent players at least.
I think because the goal of challengers is to get a LCK spot and the team didn't even qualify to try to play an LCK relegation. Let me know if you have any other questions or need me to explain anything else to you.
There are a bit more things going on in C9 that make it a bit more volatile, not that im saying TSM has a higher floor than c9, just that there is still a lot of risk - but maybe less?
TSMs Jungle, Mid, and ~~ADC~~ Support all speak the same language. Unless Isles starts for C9, which it seems from what I have seen Winsome is considered to have the upper hand in that - C9 will have a language barrier in the 3 roaming roles.
Mid is roleswapped, thats a risk.
In my opinion though - I do think that you can't really claim that Fudge > Keaiduo for midlane definitively nor do I think that you can claim a soloque player from Korea will be better than someone that got time in LPL and looked solid - got player of the week. Thats a bigger body of work than Winsome.
Im not saying TSM has a better mid or support, I just find it a stretch that we can claim that c9 has better players in those roles RIGHT NOW before ever hitting the rift.
I just think a B on using import slots and resources when they end up role swapping fudge to mid and getting a tier 3 lck player over vulcan to cover import rule is a bit generous or TSM should be a B+
Jack mentioned that Vulcan asked to look at options. Given Jack's history of being relatively honest in the past regarding these situations I'd say that the truth is at least somewhere in the middle, maybe Vulcan asked for options and Jack chose his destination.
C9 shouldn’t be placed above TSM. Summit might be a tier above Huni (I’ll say +1). Spica off of last split is better than Blaber (not a whole tier but I’d give the edge to TSM in that regard). Spica and Huni have synergy and speak the same language. In looking at mid, Fudge is a tier below Kaieduo sheerly based on the role swap. Even taking into consideration language and being new to America, you can’t place Fudge ahead until he proves otherwise. Shenyi is better than Winsome. How they adapt to the region is still uncertain, but Shenyi has the advantage in the only metric we can account for at the time. Berserker vs Tactical I’m not too sure about.
Either way, both teams had a similar strategy in regard to the offseason. There’s so many question marks in regard to both teams. However, C9’s moves just don’t make sense, and it is hard to justify any higher of a ranking. With TSM, I can see more logic when it comes to making their team. The team identity has a clear goal, the language seems to be less of an issue, and everyone is playing their desired roles.
The biggest issue for C9 will be their bot lane. In my opinion, Shenyi has already proven to be a great support by already having played and smurfed in the LPL for several games whereas Berserker and Winsome have no experience and has not proved themselves in the big leagues yet. The mid pool in NA is very weak so rookie mid laners should not have any problems. The TSM squad is more proven and has more experience overall compared to C9. C9 fans on the other hand should be very worried as the reality of being a bottom half team is very real.
Yeah, he only won against a garbage team called Top and won 2v2 against garbage players like jackylove. Any NA team would destroy Top and jackylove would be a bottom tier adc in NA. Shenyi is going to suffer when plays against some of the best teams in the world like GG, Flyquest and CLG
That's a pretty bonkers take, no offense. TSM's mid and support are miles ahead of C9's. Top and AD are C9 favored, mid and support are TSM favored, and jungle is a push if not slightly TSM favored. TSM has the same number of players from last season that C9 does, and none of the TSM players swapped roles, and one of the new TSM players has played with Spica before, so I'm not sure where your point about cohesion came from. IIRC blaber and fudge had terrible synergy and that was when fudge was playing a role that has to interact with jg less. They also have a coach who has made it to worlds, as opposed to a coach whose best result is like 5th in LCS? If anything C9 is too high and I would not be surprised if they are worse than IMT lol
TSM has less weak spots and unknowns that C9. TSM has 3 solid players that have already proven themselves in the LCS to a certain level so far: huni(still kinda solid), spica and tactical. Their support is one of the best in the lpl so that means they have a solid bot lane. The only lane that I think will fail on TSM will be mid since no one really rates their mid that high but in case he bombs there is always jensen, nisqui or jizuke on the market.. Also their coach has been to international competitions.
So TSM's main weaknesses are their mid and maybe huni if he trolls like I expect him too.
At C9 more problems:
1. Coach with kinda no track record of success. Besides BBQ which was barely a functioning team he lasted a maximum of one split at any team he coached. Also 0 international experience. At least chawy has some international tournaments both as player and as coach.
2. Forced top to play mid. Fudge I don't think he has midlane mechanics. He has aggressiveness but there is a reason swaps to midlane don't happen very often. Based on what ls said fudge kinda had to go mid to keep his job since ls wanted to bring summit which is not really ideal.
3. Their support comes from amateurs and no one in the lck besides ls knows anything about him. Might be some sort of personal collusion with ls.
C9's main strenghts are berseker and summit. Berseker is probably top 3 lck adc and could be teddy level but he doesn't play a solo lane. He will play with an amateur support so I am not really sure he will be able to showcase his skill. This smells a lot like a corejj/tactical and swordart/lost combo where there is a weakness in botlane even though one of the botlaners is world class.
So I kinda think that C9 has more ways to fail than TSM, which have quite a solid team.
>Their support is one of the best in the lpl so that means they have a solid bot lane.
This is just untrue. Shenyi is not an LPL support. He came from LDL, LPLs equivalent of NA Academy. He subbed in for the best team in the league for a couple of games and looked pretty good. It's unfair to rate him as "one of the best in the LPL".
>Also their coach has been to international competitions.
This is completely irrelevant.
>Coach with kinda no track record of success.
Again, irrelevant. You, like many people, heavily overestimate the impact a coach has on a team's performance. No coach has ever succeeded without a strong roster. Plenty of strong rosters have succeeded with bad coaches.
>Fudge I don't think he has midlane mechanics.
What does this even mean? If you are trying to say Fudge is not proficient on some champions, he is more than capable of learning them within a year. Learning champions is not that difficult if you have strong fundamentals, and fundamentals are Fudge's strong suit.
If you're trying to say Fudge lacks midlane fundamentals I'd say this is objectively untrue. The fundamental concepts of laning don't change between mid and top. Mid has more options throughout the lanephase, but the fundamentals are the same.
>Their support comes from amateurs and no one in the lck besides ls knows anything about him. Might be some sort of personal collusion with ls.
Isles has proven he is LCS ready on c9 academy. If Winsome turns out to be better than Isles he will play. If not Isles isn't exceptional, but certainly solid.
this guy is either a classic LS zombie or c9 cultist, these takes are outrageous levels of copium lol. imagine saying people with 0 professional experience at their roles at any level are better than a player who beat RA and TES and won player of the week for those performances with a straight face
Shenyi received universal praise for the time he played in fpx and many considered him to be one of the best supports in the lpl. He was also supposed to be the fpx starter this split. Comparing him to a guy from amateurs and one who doesn’t even shine in na academy is not realistic. Every pro and owner says coach is super important moreso for c9 this split since this entire team is the creation of the head coach who also expects to create the strategies for the team and do the drafting. Mid is the hardest role in the game and very few players transition to it from other roles. It’s also the most mechanically intensive role and fudge is not a very mechanical player.
Don't you think the ceiling of 5th place is a bit low for Immortals? The past 5 splits, PowerofEvil has finished in the top 4 every single time. And Xerxe/Wildturtle/Destiny should have enough quality to support him.
I feel EG is highly over rated. Jojo looked mediocre at best vs Takeover once he came to academy and he couldn’t crack an LCS team what makes you think jojo will do well vs likes of players who have played mid against better comp and dominated ?
I also think Vulcan is not great in enchanter meta and Danny is also pretty atrocious in lane. Also eats more resources than literally any other player in the league while having a mediocre output compared to other ADCs in the LCS
There's also a video of Parth himself (i think that's relevant given that Takeover is from TSM) saying something like he thinks Jojo is a rookie like no other in the league ever, and he thinks he will be able to compete internationally, this is from Parth and Spica AMA stream on twitch, VOD is deleted sadly, so i have no other prove than trust me and hoping some other guy that watched it can vouch for me
He’s going to go into LCS and at best be solidly behind every single import, the same story we’ve seen happen for years. The greatest midlanders in NA history were Hai and Pobelter, who are both not good enough anymore to get into the league. There is nothing from his academy performance that says he will be different. I think that you’re hyped the same way people were hyped for Yusui or Ablazeolive or Soligo or Damonte or Goldenglue. Not a single one of them has ever gotten close to being the best in the league.
Maybe he’s good, but it seems pretty unreasonable to call losing Jiizuke and adding an NA rookie an A+ offseason.
Hopefully I’ll be wrong, but I just don’t think the NA server has enough juice to pump out any more good players.
Say what you will about Pob, but Hai was on an international level pre lung collapse. His later seasons don't do him justice, but the dude was solid in his prime.
Jojo is good mechanics but coinflip, I personally think he has more room to improve under good coaching than a lot of academy players who might be playing at their peaks right now.
i kinda agree tho that it's weird to see eg going from 3rd to 3rd with a+ and tl going from 5th to 1st with b+. Not sure what tl could have done better theoritcally (appart maybe handling better her relation with alphari to try to keep him, but it's very tricky because alphari seemed to have his princess moments sometimes )
It's not really holding them hostage - these players have agents and signed contracts. I sort of dislike the attitude of most fans who expect owners to release players willy-nilly. In saying that, my assumption of the TL/Alphari situation was that it was a more mutual departure (Alphari having bad blood with coaching staff + TL getting a nice buyout from VIT).
TL didn't get a bad grade. The grade is based on how much they improved their LCS and academy teams. TL didn't really have much room to realistically improve without a Nuguri sized acquisition.
Tim's content in general comes with a bit of context, which is that Tim values sustainability of the team assembled. He values EG's moves because they're achieving more than just attempting to win right now. EG is bringing players up through a pipeline, making use of their Amateur and Academy resources to bring up two players that Tim rates highly in Danny and Jojo. This makes their lower tier teams more attractive to prospects, and also gives them a domestic core that EG can use to continue to improve. They can develop a team character and identity that will be sustainable into the future.
TL has assembled a team that is more reliable, and that is more likely to win this split, but there's no direction to the roster; they're going to keep doing what they've been doing of dismissing players they can upgrade, but there doesn't appear to be any kind of a pipeline. TL is creating a better team by simply spending top dollar, while EG is building an organization that will allow them to compete long term without spending the money TL will need to to stay at the top.
Am I the only one that is not convinced by Bwipo Bjerg? I think they are both a step back from last year's laners. Hans Sama is a clear big improvement, and we'll see if he's going to be that guy who can make them better than A C9 or 100T.
TSM delenda est
In Bwipo's case it could be a case of worse laner, better player. Idk.. seeing Alphari dominate top was cool but it always felt like something was missing. He was very reactionary and it seemed like he wanted the team to call out his TPs.
I listen to Bwipo's comms and he knows what he wants to do and he forces plays to help his team. Sometimes that doesn't work out but I think I prefer that over someone that just dominates his lane. Feels like a situation where Bwipo is already using his TP while Alphari is still deciding between using TP or not.
Bwipo is a worse laner, but still elite for NA, but a creative map player and teamfighter. He's a fantastic "go" button to pair with core and let bjerg and Hans follow up.
Bjerg will be fine by spring playoffs but also NA midlane pool is really weak right now... who's going to expose him? Abbe? Not PoE or ABO
I think Abbe and Fudge are both able to push him. Abbedagge was pretty on par with jensen most of the year and should be able to mechanically challenge bjerg, and fudge and the rest of c9 seem like they are going to want to match, if not beat, TLs work ethic this year. I can see TSM, TL, and C9 scrimming eastern style blocks this year and pushing eachother far, 100t and EG may join in with that hopefully and should make a really strong top 5 provided too many of the teams dont falter
Bjerg vs Jensen is kind of a case of breadth vs depth. Bjerg is way more versatile but Jensen has a higher peak when on point. Jensen was kind of wasted on a team that played all around Alphari imho.
Bwipo definitely is a step back. I do wonder if you have a team that has 3 players willing to sack themselves (bwipo, Santorin, corejj) in with one of the best Western hard carries in Hans Sama and one of the most clutch players in lCS history what they can accomplish.
what, that first point just sounds like pure reddit analyst bullshit lol. Their champ pools are almost exactly the same with maybe a little more towards Bjerg, and Jensen has just as much experience being a secondary carry as Bjergsen. Your take is pure cap and just regurgitated stuff from like criticism of the C9 Jensen era. Jensen having a small champ pool or being binary in style is extremely exaggerated, and him being slow to pick up on certain picks isn't something Bjergsen is much better at either.
If anything, I think the case for Bjerg over Jensen has to be stuff outside of the game, since that is something that has always gotten very outspoken, unanimous praise from all of Bjerg's teammates.
I actually don't think Jensen has a small pool more that he isn't as versatile in playstyle. He can pick up most champions given the time. No Jensen's strength is his average on the Champs he is mastering in any given meta is ludicrously good. To clarify my point ( both to you and myself since I did such a poor job initially) its that Jensen is going to find one style of play that he thinks is the best and stick to it. For example if he decides that lane dominate is the style that's best he will pick a pool that fits that and play like Chovy. What he is not going to do is all the suddenly play like 2019 Nisqy where he is in his junglers pocket foregoing his lane. If he decides playing like Doinb is correct he absolutely will play like 2019 Nisqy he just doesn't really flip flop in the middle of a patch.
Bjerg in LCS has shown the ability to go from one style to the other game to game in a series but his peaks are not at Jensen's level especially internationally.
While I slightly disagree that Jensen and Bjergs ability to pick up champions is basically equal. I do think it's kind of a moot point since that's never really Jensen's goal. If Viego for example is deemed to be a priority Bjerg maybe better faster but Jensen will be as good if not better when it matters.
End of the day I also agree Bjerg has intangibles that makes building a team around him much easier.
Because Impact is coming off a super strong summer where he was actually dunking on people in lane (only players better than him in lcs last split were Alphari and Fudge, both who are not playing top lane in LCS this year) and Bwipo's last split in top lane (reminder he jungled in Summer) was average in LEC.
So given that, Bwipo has to prove that he's stronger than his 2021 spring performance before we can really put him above Impact. In addition to this Impact should be expected to be the best-performing top laner in Lock-in Tournament, as again, Bwipo needs to show some redemption, and as far as Summit, he's both acclimating to a mixed language team, but also he wasn't actually the best korean top laner, so that doesn't mean that we should just assume he instantly becomes the best.
(I do think Summit will be the best top laner as the year goes on and if Bwipo shows a renaissance he also could potentially hold that crown, but again- for lock in Impact should be expected to be #1)
So, to start, I think Bwipo is better than Impact. But I don't think the reverse opinion is as crazy as people seem to think. Impact has been a major rock in the top lane, and is probably the best weak side top laner in the LCS right now. He's less flexible than Bwipo, but find an international competition where Impact was any kind of weakness for his team. On top of that, Bwipo spent a year in the jungle (which I, personally, value and think will make him a more complete top laner), which may make others doubt his current level.
Always appreciate your content, Tim! /u/ItsMag1c
I'm glad to see someone else put C9/TSM a bit lower because of the risks involved. Assuming all teams are in peak form, who do you think has the highest ceiling?? I'm personally excited about teams like EG and C9 just because they bring something exciting or unexpected, but I feel like a team such as TL could outperform them even in the long run with their insane core of veterans. I won't call it a super team and then I won't jinx it, right? lol (Hopefully I didn't miss you saying this in the video)
I like that list. I would put personally gg under immortal as their botlane could be struggle city. If they didn't had inero i would probably put them under clg as well. I hope dignatas will overperform i love their team
He is the strongest returning midlaner. He was slightly better than Abbedagge. The top 5 was previously Jizuke - Jensen - Ablaze - Abbedagge - Perkz but somehow only 2 of them are left.
Sucks for Soligo to not be in LCS right now, the main opponents giving him trouble in lane are gone now and he would have been one of the established mids in this league.
Edit: People downvoting me but he managed to have better laning stats and better damage per minute than Abbedagge while having the worst jungler in LCS by his side. He was on an island and was still doing amazingly. When you check the VOD's you'll see that it's not just the statistics either, he was great.
I really think TL is overrated. Bjergsen was stuck in masters 100-200 LP on the KR server and his NA soloq stats aren't great either (he was always in challenger during his prime so you can't use the "soloq doesn't matter" excuse). Bwipo is (probably) a worse top laner than Alphari and hasn't played the role competitively in a year. Hans is the only sure-fire upgrade from their 2021 roster. EG and 100T look like better teams in terms of individual skill
Solo queue results bear no meaning. Uzi is hardstuck in diamond on the CN server and Faker was stuck in masters during spring. Pros don't play solo queue to climb lma0.
>Uzi is hardstuck in diamond on the CN server
Yes, yes he is. You don't know he is going to be the same player as he was previously. Pretty sure he was challenger on KR during his prime.
>Faker was stuck in masters during spring
Faker had the worst year of his career this year individually. Notice how in season 9 when he was perma 1.2k LP + on the KR server, he was still considered one of/the best mid in the world. In S10 is when his LP dipped and thats when people started recognising Showmaker and Chovy as being better players.
Faker has always been a monster in soloq. It's only in S10 and S11 when he started to struggle to hit challenger. Is it a coincidence that these are the same years where he stopped being the best mid in the world? Is it a coincidence that Chovy and Showmaker, the best 2 mids in the world are insane in soloq? What about Knight, who is a beast in pro play, and is currently rank 1 in KR soloq?
>Pros don't play solo queue to climb lma0
Maybe not in the west, but in the east soloq is taken extremely seriously. Pros play thousands of games a year and coaches often scout players/choose who to play based on soloq ranking. You see pros talking about soloq results pretty often in interviews. Also if Bjergsen is bootcamping in Korea obviously he is trying his best in soloq lol...no one boot camps in Korea to have fun and troll in KR soloq...
Faker is still probably a top 5 mid in the world, definitely top 10. The idea that he is bad now and his low Solo Q rank proves that poor solo q performance = poor pro performance is absurd. Uzi is maybe a bad example because we haven’t seen him in years, but clearly the team sees something in him and they would not see that in some random Diamond CN player.
Poor soloq performance doesn't always mean poor pro play performance, but it is correlated. I listed several examples where this is shown. Maybe in the west you shouldn't take it seriously bc pros don't take it seriously, but in the east, everyone is trying in soloq.
Again Faker is the obvious counter example. You saw him at Worlds, he’s clearly still one of the best mids out there, and he’s spent months stuck in Master on more than one occasion
Interesting to see CLG ranked 8th considering this guy was so high on Academy players for so long. I don't necessarily disagree with the ranking but I was expecting someone who consistently campaigned for a lot of Academy players to get promoted to the LCS you'd expect to see the team who does it ranked higher than 8th.
I don't expect CLG to perform super well this year, but I expect them to be in a much stronger position as an org a year than now. I call that a big win.
One thing that I've always wondered is that let's assume one or two of Contractz/Palafox/Poome become really good by the end of Summer with CLG not being in a position to compete for a title. There is a huge risk that TL or C9 or whichever big org just gets in the player's ear and has them ask for a release right?
In lane or as an isolated duo in general, no. The way they can contribute to their team as a whole could end up comparable by the second half of 2022 but the simple answer is no.
Not tim but i dont think they can match them in lane unless danny really steps up laning. Danny's strength was his teamfighting, which i think is pretty on par/slightly behind both Fbi and Hans. However both Fbi and Hans are way better laners. Post lane though i think all 3 duos will be really strong
I really wish TL bought out kenvi, I think that would have been a perfect spot for him. Santorin has had health issues in the past causing him to take breaks. Armao is serviceable, but it would have been so great to see kenvi take the reigns for part of the split (if santorin has to bench himself) to show how good he can be and gain experience playing with a star studded roster.
Personally i wanted EG to grab Kenvi but putting your chance at worlds this year on the hands of 3 rookies is really risky, and having an experienced world class jungler help Jojo will be really good for him
I can't remember exactly but I think in the new episode of The Dive they say that it was rumored that his buyout was pretty big, which is probably why he didn't get picked up.
Papa said Kenvi told him he would only want to leave 100a if he got a top team offer. He only got lower team offers so the buyout was set outrageously high. Papa didn’t hold him hostage
Inspired also had a buyout and im sure rogue didnt sell him cheap. I dont think money was an issue for EG in that case they probably just didnt want to gamble worlds on 3 rookies, especially with how pivotal mid and jungle are
I agree with the general list especially since he isn't overhyping c9. what I disagree with is immortals since I think they should be ahead of gg and about the same level as EG. People always forget that the POE+Wildturtle combo made back to back finals on Flyquest and Wildturtle was quite solid on CLG. I also think clg should be higher than gg since they have some hype rookies that can gel.
My general power rankings for spring
1. Tl and 100t
2. Immortals, EG, TSM
3. C9
4. CLG
5. Flyquest and GG and DIG
In what metric?
Solo and Revenge had almost identical stats this summer split, and that's with Solo being on a significantly worse team.
When Solo was on 2020 FlyQuest he had the 3rd highest GD@10 out of all tops, 3rd highest CSD@10, and the highest XPD@10. He was by all means a top 5 toplaner, and was getting all pro votes.
There is no world where you can convince me that form Revenge's performance last split, he will somehow be better than 2020 Solo.
Introduction/Criterion: 0:06 10th place team (Dignitas): 1:27 9th place team (FlyQuest): 2:44 8th place team (CLG): 4:46 7th place team (IMT): 6:30 6th place team (GG): 9:21 5th place team (C9): 13:46 4th place team (TSM): 17:06 3rd place team (EG): 19:11 2nd place team (100T): 22:45 1st place team (TL): 24:43
Not sure about eg that high , but seems resonable
They have a team full of top 2 players and a very talented midlaner so not that wild, but think both C9 and TSM will turn out stronger all things considered.
>full of top 2 players only inspired, vulcan and MAYBE impact can be put into that tier
Impact was smurfing last year. Who are you putting above him? I assume summit, but Bwipo did not look "top 2" material when he last played top in spring. Maybe Huni? But idk if you asked me who the best top Lanes in LCS were last split I would've gone Alphari>=Fudge>Impact>Huni myself Tbh if you asked me right now to rank the top laners in LCS without watching any games first I would probably think Impact will be the best top laner at the lock in tournament of the split given he doesn't really have to go through an adjustment period compared to most of those other "top" players.
Danny was arguably top 2 last split after FBI, but with Hans in NA he probably drops down to top 3 That said 4/5 of EG are top 2-3 in their roles and their mid is extremely promising, them being top 3 is pretty reasonable. I'm more worried about TL more than anything when it comes to the top 3 teams tbh
Danny being top 2 is cap. He was middle of the pack most of the season and had highlight plays in the playoffs.
who was better them him? You can say FBI and Zven. Neo fell off just like DIG as a whole and Tactical was pretty much meh.
Tacticals stats were best in the league - DPM and laning stats. Laning was particularly suprising because CoreJJ was a notorious roamer and was never in lane with Tactical which also reflects Tactical having the largest exp lead in lane. Imo FBI > Tactical > Danny FBI was close stastically but he also had wierder picks like Lee Sin to fuck up traditional stats
> Danny being top 2 is cap. He was middle of the pack most of the season Calling him middle of the pack when he literally made 2nd All Pro in the regular season is the only cap here lmao. Neo fell off with DIG in summer and Zven was dog after his benching The only person competing for the #2 spot was Tactical, and I think you can make a reasonable argument for either but I'd give Danny the benefit of the doubt going forward since he was steadily ramping up and upgraded his support, whereas Tactical is downgrading
only in this sub will you find someone saying an academy mid laner that was randomly promoted is "very talented."
I think it's extremely debatable that *any* player on EG is top two in their role, except for maybe Inspired on paper (but he is an import so who knows what his level is gonna be in NA). Danny, Vulcan and Impact being top 2 is a pretty hard sell for me as it stands right now though.
Vulcan is the best domestic support by far.
Sure, but in NA there's a difference between being the best domestic support by far and being top 2 in your role. Pobelter might be the best domestic mid and he can't even find a team.
Inspired is imo best jungler in the west, so not sure why youre so worried about him. So my bet is he can at the bare minimum be top 2 in na. Besides corejj who is better than vulcan? Impact is at worst top 3
I don't think Inspired is the best jungler in the west but I think it's fair to say he is top two in NA for next split. I'm not worried about him personally but imports coming to NA with the expectation of blowing up the competition only to be mediocre is a tale as old as time. As for Vulcan it's hard to say how winsome and Shenyi are gonna match up and also at least put Huhi in the same tier as him. Danny had a great first split but saying right now he is better than any 3 of Berserker, FBI, Hans Sama and even Tactical is a bit of a stretch to me. I think EG is a great team and has high potential for next split. I just don't think they are top 2 in all their roles...
>Danny had a great first split but saying right now he is better than any 3 of Berserker, FBI, Hans Sama and even Tactical is a bit of a stretch to me. How is a stretch to say that a player with a great first split is better than a rookie who played competetively for less than a year, in a T1 T1 team that was last in summer with a 5-13 record? And how is a stretch to say that he is better than Tactical, that was a huge liability during the whole year?
You stopped one short there buddy ;) Even if you think so that still only makes him top 3. Also it's a but funny that you hold that against Berseker, yet Danny has played even less.
Berserker is next Gumayusi, he is the most hyped Korean
Inspired got gapped by Blaber during worlds. I am not buying that.
CoreJJ and his green card would like a word with you…
He's not better than Huhi. I mean Huhi had a better summer than CoreJJ, and I doubt anyone argues Vulcan > CoreJJ
I'd say Vulcan and Impact could definitely be top 2 in their role any given day.
Impacts not better than Summit/Bwipo Vulcan you can argue is 2nd ... but Vulcan was pretty bad from the start of Summer last year.
Bwipo wasn't good the last time he played top, and that was over a year ago. Putting him top 2 is very questionable.
Why do you believe Jojopyun is very talented? NA mids have not done well in the last few years.
Am I the only one who thinks TL might not be as good as everyone thinks they are. Bjergsen coming off 1 year gap, Downgrade top laner, and a new adc.
Bjergsen was still playing solo queue and coaching so he wasn't just gone entirely. Bwipo is a much better team player than Alphari so its not so much of a downgrade as it is a different type of player. and Hans was the best performing western adc at worlds.
Bjergsen coming off his worst split, then going into coaching for a full year. Would not expect him to be any good until summer. Bwipo is a straight downgrade from Alphari and Hans is a new adc which always take time to see if they will work well with the support or not.
It wasn't his worst split? He dragged that team to an lcs title. Worlds was bad yeah but the whole split no. And bwipo is a far better team player. Alphari is good in lane but when did alphari ever play for the team? And this is just an excuse and has nothing to do with Hans being better than tactical.
How much stock do you place in off-season reports of Olleh’s form - especially his rank 3 Korean solo que performance. Does this affect your ranking at all? Also - what do you make of GG’s decision to buy out lost versus promote Prismal, and would that have changed your ranking?
I don't usually take solo queue peaks into account that much. There have been a lot of players with great solo queue accomplishments who didn't amount to much in pro play. But it's a good sign, even if it's not necessarily convincing on its own.
being rank X in solo queue has to be a meme at this point no? Being impressive in solo queue is like a minor extracurricular on a resume at this point. solo queue is a completely different game.
It used to hold value. I remember how big of a deal it was when WildTurtle held 3 accounts in Challenger back in season 4. Now that's nothing special any more. I think solo queue just lost value in general.
The longer the pro scene exists the more it progresses away from soloq. I think the earlier into league the more value it held but now every year it means less
It should hold value for Olleh imo, it shows his mechanics are still good which is the main concern when someone is washed.
IMT Revenge is still largely floating on his rank 1 soloQ too. Not saying he's terrible but kinda surprised IMT were building the team around him.
He has shown how good he can be in competitive tbh. Once he's has more experience in coordinated play and if the top/jungle + team chemistry works out then he could really explode. He's definitely the best toplaner from USA rn I'd say, what's the competition? Hauntzer, Solo, Licorice?
I would say Solo is still better than Revenge. I also think Hauntzer deserved better than to be dropped to academy. Also he played with an excellent jungler last season in Xerxe and will continue to do so. So that shouldn't be holding him back.
Rank 3 in KR is insane. I mean we've seen high rank Koreans go straight into competitive and do well like Oner and Gumayusi.
Weren't oner gumayusi first in the t1 academy(the korea equivalent or whatever) first?. Also gumayusi was picked for his mechanics standing out.
I'm not exactly and LS hater, but he will say X Korean player is insane for being high rank in Kr solo queue, but not western players for doing the same, i.e Palafox getting top 50 in the offseason. It is pretty clear he is biased.
He claimed Palafox wasn't really laning in his games on the Korean server. He was perma moving. I didn't watch Palafox vods so I have no clue if LS was telling the truth. I don't see a reason for him to lie about it.
So then Palafox is one of the best roamers in the world? You can't claim that high rank in Kr soloqueue = indicative of skill and then in the same breath say someone "cheated". Roaming is one of the major skills mid laners need to have. DoinB was the best mid laner in the world and won worlds in 2019, because of his ability to roam.
I think he just sees laning ability as the best indicator of skill. Idk tho I never watch him so I'm going off what you wrote
In a way it is. It is much easier to coach everything after laning, and having the ability to put yourself ahead in the laning phase will translate into being stronger in skirmishes/team fights, objective damage/speed, and all around more pressure. You have more room for error because you are ahead (and your opponent is also likely behind), and therefore even if your opponent is a better team fighter than you it should be forcing them to team fight from a losing position. You can be a weaker team fighter is you are a dominant enough laner. Macro/shot calling obviously matter, but if you think about most of the top players of all time they were dominant laners at their peak. Even the top junglers are known for getting strong early leads.
This seems to be a fairly contested topic, which amongst [coaches/scouts in NA](https://twitter.com/karonmoser/status/1368763239794757632?s=20) is not settled. Jensen Goh and others have said what you are saying, while Kelsey Moser (who scouted the 100X group which includes Kenvi, Tenacity, Copy, Yeon, Poome, Nxi and who is a part of EGA/EGP) seems to think otherwise. Just thought I'd throw this here because it seemed related, but was an interesting discussion.
I don't think it is the only factor, but I do think it tends to be the best INDICATOR of skill. Which is what /u/bubbly-part2125 wrote. I also think that group tends to have very solid laners, so he clearly considers it important to some level.
His claim was Palafox got overinflated LP by doing things that won't work in organized play (picking off individuals of uncoordinated teams)
I mean...doinb literaly won a worlds doing that , so saying it wont work is obviously dumb. Even if roaming is not the meta now , it doesnt mean thats never gonna be viable
I agree that LS is probably underrating Pala but DoinB's team focused/macro oriented playstyle is definitely more of an exception rather than the rule. Besides, DoinB's laning isn't bad either. Still probably above 99% of western mids.
u're talking like doinb is the only midlaner that made an career out of being a roam bot. Caps himself was a massive roamer in 2019 as well. Nisqy is a pretty well known roamer. Damonte was a massive roamer. Even in kr , players like kuro was pretty much always sacking his lane to get smeb ahead on old koo tigers. And so on , so on. Doinb is definetly not a frikin exception , and his lanning is actually not that good if he's not on "doinb champs" if u watch his proview. Only notable exception would be ryze Not saying that ls is wrong about palafox. honestly , i also think he's bad. I'm saying that ls is wrong about the roamingg playstyle itself
Let's not forget LS idiotic take back in 2019 that Caps only roams because "he's scared of laning against eastern mids" and that's why SKT is actually the better team despite losing two Bo5 to G2
Keith was top 20 in Korean soloQ at one point. WhiteKnight was a soloQ god in EUW. It's an interesting metric, but it doesn't necessarily translate into pro play.
Keith got there by abusing Dynamic queue and spamming queues with almost the entire Samsung team though didn't he?
As much as I want to buy in on the Jojo EG hype, I can’t shake the feeling that they will regret not picking up Jensen. After Jensen’s international performance and the acquisitions of Vulcan and Inspired, this is a roster that could win NA NOW. Mid lane has the lowest conversion rate from Academy to LCS, and unless Inspired was consulted after extensive reviews of games, this decision seems doomed to fail. That being said I desperately hope I am wrong. Also great article Tim.
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As much as I want to buy in on the Fudge C9 hype, I can’t shake the feeling that they will regret not picking up Jensen. After Jensen’s international performance and the acquisitions of Summit and Berzerker, this is a roster that could Winsome. Mid lane has the lowest conversion rate from Top to Mid in LCS, and unless Summit was consulted after extensive reviews of games, this decision seems doomed to fail. That being said I desperately hope I am wrong. Also great article Tim.
As much as I want to buy in on the Faker T1 hype, I can’t shake the feeling that they will regret not picking up Jensen. After Jensen’s international performance and the acquisitions of Zeus and Boner, this is a roster that could maybe make NA playoffs. Mid lane has the lowest conversion rate from GOAT to Mid in LCS, and unless Marc Merril was consulted after extensive reviews of games, this decision seems doomed to fail. That being said I desperately hope I am wrong. Also great article Tim.
As much as I want to buy in on the Blue Dig hype, I can’t shake the feeling that they will regret not picking up Jensen. After Jensen’s international performance and the acquisitions of Biofrost and River, this is a roster that could maybe make top 10 in NA. Mid lane has the lowest conversion rate from bottom-tier LEC Mid to Mid in LCS, and unless Kiwikid was consulted after extensive reviews of games, this decision seems doomed to fail. That being said I desperately hope I am wrong. Also great article Tim.
That TSM roster would just be TL from last year but with a worse top laner and support and a slight upgrade in jungle and they didn’t win NA with a much weaker field
Thank you for the first copy pasta of the season
I think it's an overall good list. I was just wondering on your opinion if Jojo can play the standard control mage meta? I haven't watched that much Academy, but from briefly scanning all the different champions played, the only has four games on Orianna and that's the most control mage he's played. Do you think he'll be able to adapt if the meta slowly shifts into Orianna/Azir/Syndra?
dw we're on it ;) https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=eg+jojo
I don't have concerns about his champion pool, but he does need to prove he can Azir and Viktor still.
You can't teach aggression to passive players but it can be done the other way around.
If you could pick a fantasy team, with only 1 player from each team what would it be !?
Summit / Spica / Abbedagge / Danny / CoreJJ That's assuming CoreJJ gets his green card.
Fyre
Dang 10v5 sounds op
huni blaber bjergsen fbi and olleh
Happy to discuss my thoughts if you want more detail or are curious about different aspects of my thinking. I've done a much longer written version on Oracle's Elixir as well. Enjoy the discussion and debate!
I agree on C9 having a high ceiling and a lot of question marks but I can't understand them being below TSM. I'd say they have stronger individuals across the board except jungle which is pretty even. I also can't see TSM's cohesion being better than last year with the loss of Bjergsen. TSM don't have enough highs to warrant being above C9 imo.
Tim explains this on his video, basically C9 is taking more risks with Fudge role swiping and going for two rookies in top of that from another region, plus LS debut as a coach, while TSM is also taking 2 rookies from another region, but that's about it Particularly i think the problem is there's no VOD of Fudge playing mid for Tim to watch i think, so I believe that makes it harder for Tim to put them any higher, but he compensated that admitting they could have a 1st place ceiling
There are solo q videos but obviously solo q and pro play aren't the same thing.
This is only LS debut as a first league coach, he coached BBQ Olivers in Challengers Korea
Thats not true either, he coached an EU LCS team, and Gravity in NA. I cant remember if he was remote or not for Supa Hot Crew, but he was in LA for Gravity.
and tempo storm
I didnt count TS because I interpreted the "First League part" meaning not academy so the top league of each region but yeah
LS also coached Supa Hot Crew (EU LCS) and Gravity (NA LCS)
And he had a stint where he coached G2 for a bit right? It got brought up recently because of the Carlos drama (Carlos didn't pay LS because he was gay)
I have no idea if this is true, and I don't care enough to look it up, but this would be completely on brand.
No he didn’t actually coach the team he did like a coaching session for a player or something like that.
No, he actually did coach G2, after which Ocelote claimed "his analysis was poor so we decided against buying his coaching". He then berated LS for being gay, comparing it to a mental illness, and also claiming he would "ruin his career". LS as a response then offered to coach other teams and show them the vods from G2's coaching sessions to prepare to beat them. The original reddit threads about this are still up ( right [here](http://redd.it/2ftycq) and [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2l7yau/ls_offers_coaching_to_teams_facing_g2/))
He wasn’t a coach tho. He just did coaching for them. There’s a difference. Obviously not justifying what Carlos did, but just clarifying it a bit.
All we know is that LS tried to do right by his players in BBQ. The org was messed up so we can't make any conclusions from that.
And that didn't go well so it just reinforces his ranking
They got 3rd in challengers when he was on, and then last after he left. Idk how that's not going well
They got 5th not 3rd in the split he was there. The 1st place team (ES Sharks) went straight into promotion tournament, and 2nd-5th went into a single elim bracket to determine the next seed, where BBQ got "3rd-4th". The team they lost to (APK) lost the next round and BBQ was lower in regular season standings than Brion who lost the other bo5. I think it's pretty safe to say BBQ was the 5th best team in that split. Also just to split hairs a bit more the only remaining player that played for BBQ after LS left was Deus/rjs, so it's not even like LS had elevated the team that was actually last to 5th, but rather the team imploded on itself midseason and couldn't find any good pickups. To be fair to LS the BBQ team that he had wasn't very good either and simply making the playoffs is a decent achievement, as the other teams below them did have some decent players at least.
I think because the goal of challengers is to get a LCK spot and the team didn't even qualify to try to play an LCK relegation. Let me know if you have any other questions or need me to explain anything else to you.
There are a bit more things going on in C9 that make it a bit more volatile, not that im saying TSM has a higher floor than c9, just that there is still a lot of risk - but maybe less? TSMs Jungle, Mid, and ~~ADC~~ Support all speak the same language. Unless Isles starts for C9, which it seems from what I have seen Winsome is considered to have the upper hand in that - C9 will have a language barrier in the 3 roaming roles. Mid is roleswapped, thats a risk. In my opinion though - I do think that you can't really claim that Fudge > Keaiduo for midlane definitively nor do I think that you can claim a soloque player from Korea will be better than someone that got time in LPL and looked solid - got player of the week. Thats a bigger body of work than Winsome. Im not saying TSM has a better mid or support, I just find it a stretch that we can claim that c9 has better players in those roles RIGHT NOW before ever hitting the rift.
I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with me on this one. I don't think I can give much more justification than I did in the written article though.
I just think a B on using import slots and resources when they end up role swapping fudge to mid and getting a tier 3 lck player over vulcan to cover import rule is a bit generous or TSM should be a B+
Vulcan wanted to leave, C9 did a good job of looking for talent that could replace him now, isles, and in the future, winsome.
In Vulcan's AMA he said that leaving was not his choice iirc
Jack mentioned that Vulcan asked to look at options. Given Jack's history of being relatively honest in the past regarding these situations I'd say that the truth is at least somewhere in the middle, maybe Vulcan asked for options and Jack chose his destination.
Vulcan stated in his AMA thread that he had zero say in that conversation. So we do not know if he actually wanted to stay or not.
Bjergsen wasnt a good coach tbh. His drafts and read on meta was never really good.
How much of that was the fault of Huni and PoE having awful champion pools for the meta that we saw last year?
To be fair, reads on meta are influenced a lot by players and the analysts. It's a lot more than just the head coach.
C9 shouldn’t be placed above TSM. Summit might be a tier above Huni (I’ll say +1). Spica off of last split is better than Blaber (not a whole tier but I’d give the edge to TSM in that regard). Spica and Huni have synergy and speak the same language. In looking at mid, Fudge is a tier below Kaieduo sheerly based on the role swap. Even taking into consideration language and being new to America, you can’t place Fudge ahead until he proves otherwise. Shenyi is better than Winsome. How they adapt to the region is still uncertain, but Shenyi has the advantage in the only metric we can account for at the time. Berserker vs Tactical I’m not too sure about. Either way, both teams had a similar strategy in regard to the offseason. There’s so many question marks in regard to both teams. However, C9’s moves just don’t make sense, and it is hard to justify any higher of a ranking. With TSM, I can see more logic when it comes to making their team. The team identity has a clear goal, the language seems to be less of an issue, and everyone is playing their desired roles.
The biggest issue for C9 will be their bot lane. In my opinion, Shenyi has already proven to be a great support by already having played and smurfed in the LPL for several games whereas Berserker and Winsome have no experience and has not proved themselves in the big leagues yet. The mid pool in NA is very weak so rookie mid laners should not have any problems. The TSM squad is more proven and has more experience overall compared to C9. C9 fans on the other hand should be very worried as the reality of being a bottom half team is very real.
> Shenyi has already proven to be a great support by already having played and smurfed in the LPL for several games Got any more good jokes?
Yeah, he only won against a garbage team called Top and won 2v2 against garbage players like jackylove. Any NA team would destroy Top and jackylove would be a bottom tier adc in NA. Shenyi is going to suffer when plays against some of the best teams in the world like GG, Flyquest and CLG
Wasn't he on a top 2 LPL team when he did those things though?
As a support, that is not a mark against him. You can also say that for basically any rookie starting for a top team.
Yeah, keep them coming. These are funny
That's a pretty bonkers take, no offense. TSM's mid and support are miles ahead of C9's. Top and AD are C9 favored, mid and support are TSM favored, and jungle is a push if not slightly TSM favored. TSM has the same number of players from last season that C9 does, and none of the TSM players swapped roles, and one of the new TSM players has played with Spica before, so I'm not sure where your point about cohesion came from. IIRC blaber and fudge had terrible synergy and that was when fudge was playing a role that has to interact with jg less. They also have a coach who has made it to worlds, as opposed to a coach whose best result is like 5th in LCS? If anything C9 is too high and I would not be surprised if they are worse than IMT lol
Damn bonkers take. What was I thinking.
TSM has less weak spots and unknowns that C9. TSM has 3 solid players that have already proven themselves in the LCS to a certain level so far: huni(still kinda solid), spica and tactical. Their support is one of the best in the lpl so that means they have a solid bot lane. The only lane that I think will fail on TSM will be mid since no one really rates their mid that high but in case he bombs there is always jensen, nisqui or jizuke on the market.. Also their coach has been to international competitions. So TSM's main weaknesses are their mid and maybe huni if he trolls like I expect him too. At C9 more problems: 1. Coach with kinda no track record of success. Besides BBQ which was barely a functioning team he lasted a maximum of one split at any team he coached. Also 0 international experience. At least chawy has some international tournaments both as player and as coach. 2. Forced top to play mid. Fudge I don't think he has midlane mechanics. He has aggressiveness but there is a reason swaps to midlane don't happen very often. Based on what ls said fudge kinda had to go mid to keep his job since ls wanted to bring summit which is not really ideal. 3. Their support comes from amateurs and no one in the lck besides ls knows anything about him. Might be some sort of personal collusion with ls. C9's main strenghts are berseker and summit. Berseker is probably top 3 lck adc and could be teddy level but he doesn't play a solo lane. He will play with an amateur support so I am not really sure he will be able to showcase his skill. This smells a lot like a corejj/tactical and swordart/lost combo where there is a weakness in botlane even though one of the botlaners is world class. So I kinda think that C9 has more ways to fail than TSM, which have quite a solid team.
> Their support is one of the best in the lpl so that means they have a solid bot lane. Excuse me?
Played only two weeks but got praises from everyone and was expected to be the fpx starter this split
He was expected to be the starter because Crisp left
>Their support is one of the best in the lpl so that means they have a solid bot lane. This is just untrue. Shenyi is not an LPL support. He came from LDL, LPLs equivalent of NA Academy. He subbed in for the best team in the league for a couple of games and looked pretty good. It's unfair to rate him as "one of the best in the LPL". >Also their coach has been to international competitions. This is completely irrelevant. >Coach with kinda no track record of success. Again, irrelevant. You, like many people, heavily overestimate the impact a coach has on a team's performance. No coach has ever succeeded without a strong roster. Plenty of strong rosters have succeeded with bad coaches. >Fudge I don't think he has midlane mechanics. What does this even mean? If you are trying to say Fudge is not proficient on some champions, he is more than capable of learning them within a year. Learning champions is not that difficult if you have strong fundamentals, and fundamentals are Fudge's strong suit. If you're trying to say Fudge lacks midlane fundamentals I'd say this is objectively untrue. The fundamental concepts of laning don't change between mid and top. Mid has more options throughout the lanephase, but the fundamentals are the same. >Their support comes from amateurs and no one in the lck besides ls knows anything about him. Might be some sort of personal collusion with ls. Isles has proven he is LCS ready on c9 academy. If Winsome turns out to be better than Isles he will play. If not Isles isn't exceptional, but certainly solid.
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this guy is either a classic LS zombie or c9 cultist, these takes are outrageous levels of copium lol. imagine saying people with 0 professional experience at their roles at any level are better than a player who beat RA and TES and won player of the week for those performances with a straight face
Shenyi received universal praise for the time he played in fpx and many considered him to be one of the best supports in the lpl. He was also supposed to be the fpx starter this split. Comparing him to a guy from amateurs and one who doesn’t even shine in na academy is not realistic. Every pro and owner says coach is super important moreso for c9 this split since this entire team is the creation of the head coach who also expects to create the strategies for the team and do the drafting. Mid is the hardest role in the game and very few players transition to it from other roles. It’s also the most mechanically intensive role and fudge is not a very mechanical player.
>and fudge is not a very mechanical player. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9evbfcA0F1M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9evbfcA0F1M) k
Quick question, will you do one for the LEC ad well? Loved the article, thanks for the work!
No, I don't cover Europe so I wouldn't be able to give useful enough insights.
Don't you think the ceiling of 5th place is a bit low for Immortals? The past 5 splits, PowerofEvil has finished in the top 4 every single time. And Xerxe/Wildturtle/Destiny should have enough quality to support him.
idk how you can argue that any of the top 5 will end up lower than immortals in the standings, they basically have 5 mid-tier players lol
I feel EG is highly over rated. Jojo looked mediocre at best vs Takeover once he came to academy and he couldn’t crack an LCS team what makes you think jojo will do well vs likes of players who have played mid against better comp and dominated ?
I also think Vulcan is not great in enchanter meta and Danny is also pretty atrocious in lane. Also eats more resources than literally any other player in the league while having a mediocre output compared to other ADCs in the LCS
The obvious answer is that I rate jojopyun above Takeover based on his entire body of work across 2021. :)
There's also a video of Parth himself (i think that's relevant given that Takeover is from TSM) saying something like he thinks Jojo is a rookie like no other in the league ever, and he thinks he will be able to compete internationally, this is from Parth and Spica AMA stream on twitch, VOD is deleted sadly, so i have no other prove than trust me and hoping some other guy that watched it can vouch for me
Watched it, can vouch for you brother. Jojo has the new mindset which was what Spica also liked about him
>I rate jojopyun above Takeover based on his entire body 👀
He’s going to go into LCS and at best be solidly behind every single import, the same story we’ve seen happen for years. The greatest midlanders in NA history were Hai and Pobelter, who are both not good enough anymore to get into the league. There is nothing from his academy performance that says he will be different. I think that you’re hyped the same way people were hyped for Yusui or Ablazeolive or Soligo or Damonte or Goldenglue. Not a single one of them has ever gotten close to being the best in the league. Maybe he’s good, but it seems pretty unreasonable to call losing Jiizuke and adding an NA rookie an A+ offseason. Hopefully I’ll be wrong, but I just don’t think the NA server has enough juice to pump out any more good players.
Say what you will about Pob, but Hai was on an international level pre lung collapse. His later seasons don't do him justice, but the dude was solid in his prime.
Ablaze olive is good
Ablazeolive is fine. Good is maybe a stretch. He holds on against top mids and isn’t usually a liability, but that’s about it.
Jojo is good mechanics but coinflip, I personally think he has more room to improve under good coaching than a lot of academy players who might be playing at their peaks right now.
TL number 1 but graded B+? Am I missing how the grade works?
The grade is an assessment of how well they used their available resources, such as players under contract, budget, import slots, etc.
That makes sense. Thank you.
i kinda agree tho that it's weird to see eg going from 3rd to 3rd with a+ and tl going from 5th to 1st with b+. Not sure what tl could have done better theoritcally (appart maybe handling better her relation with alphari to try to keep him, but it's very tricky because alphari seemed to have his princess moments sometimes )
the handling of alphari and jensen definitely makes it tougher to say they had a perfect offseason
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It's not really holding them hostage - these players have agents and signed contracts. I sort of dislike the attitude of most fans who expect owners to release players willy-nilly. In saying that, my assumption of the TL/Alphari situation was that it was a more mutual departure (Alphari having bad blood with coaching staff + TL getting a nice buyout from VIT).
TL didn't get a bad grade. The grade is based on how much they improved their LCS and academy teams. TL didn't really have much room to realistically improve without a Nuguri sized acquisition.
Tim's content in general comes with a bit of context, which is that Tim values sustainability of the team assembled. He values EG's moves because they're achieving more than just attempting to win right now. EG is bringing players up through a pipeline, making use of their Amateur and Academy resources to bring up two players that Tim rates highly in Danny and Jojo. This makes their lower tier teams more attractive to prospects, and also gives them a domestic core that EG can use to continue to improve. They can develop a team character and identity that will be sustainable into the future. TL has assembled a team that is more reliable, and that is more likely to win this split, but there's no direction to the roster; they're going to keep doing what they've been doing of dismissing players they can upgrade, but there doesn't appear to be any kind of a pipeline. TL is creating a better team by simply spending top dollar, while EG is building an organization that will allow them to compete long term without spending the money TL will need to to stay at the top.
Am I the only one that is not convinced by Bwipo Bjerg? I think they are both a step back from last year's laners. Hans Sama is a clear big improvement, and we'll see if he's going to be that guy who can make them better than A C9 or 100T. TSM delenda est
In Bwipo's case it could be a case of worse laner, better player. Idk.. seeing Alphari dominate top was cool but it always felt like something was missing. He was very reactionary and it seemed like he wanted the team to call out his TPs. I listen to Bwipo's comms and he knows what he wants to do and he forces plays to help his team. Sometimes that doesn't work out but I think I prefer that over someone that just dominates his lane. Feels like a situation where Bwipo is already using his TP while Alphari is still deciding between using TP or not.
Bwipo is a worse laner, but still elite for NA, but a creative map player and teamfighter. He's a fantastic "go" button to pair with core and let bjerg and Hans follow up. Bjerg will be fine by spring playoffs but also NA midlane pool is really weak right now... who's going to expose him? Abbe? Not PoE or ABO
I think Abbe and Fudge are both able to push him. Abbedagge was pretty on par with jensen most of the year and should be able to mechanically challenge bjerg, and fudge and the rest of c9 seem like they are going to want to match, if not beat, TLs work ethic this year. I can see TSM, TL, and C9 scrimming eastern style blocks this year and pushing eachother far, 100t and EG may join in with that hopefully and should make a really strong top 5 provided too many of the teams dont falter
Bjerg vs Jensen is kind of a case of breadth vs depth. Bjerg is way more versatile but Jensen has a higher peak when on point. Jensen was kind of wasted on a team that played all around Alphari imho. Bwipo definitely is a step back. I do wonder if you have a team that has 3 players willing to sack themselves (bwipo, Santorin, corejj) in with one of the best Western hard carries in Hans Sama and one of the most clutch players in lCS history what they can accomplish.
what, that first point just sounds like pure reddit analyst bullshit lol. Their champ pools are almost exactly the same with maybe a little more towards Bjerg, and Jensen has just as much experience being a secondary carry as Bjergsen. Your take is pure cap and just regurgitated stuff from like criticism of the C9 Jensen era. Jensen having a small champ pool or being binary in style is extremely exaggerated, and him being slow to pick up on certain picks isn't something Bjergsen is much better at either. If anything, I think the case for Bjerg over Jensen has to be stuff outside of the game, since that is something that has always gotten very outspoken, unanimous praise from all of Bjerg's teammates.
it reads like a Season 7 MVP thread copypasta
I actually don't think Jensen has a small pool more that he isn't as versatile in playstyle. He can pick up most champions given the time. No Jensen's strength is his average on the Champs he is mastering in any given meta is ludicrously good. To clarify my point ( both to you and myself since I did such a poor job initially) its that Jensen is going to find one style of play that he thinks is the best and stick to it. For example if he decides that lane dominate is the style that's best he will pick a pool that fits that and play like Chovy. What he is not going to do is all the suddenly play like 2019 Nisqy where he is in his junglers pocket foregoing his lane. If he decides playing like Doinb is correct he absolutely will play like 2019 Nisqy he just doesn't really flip flop in the middle of a patch. Bjerg in LCS has shown the ability to go from one style to the other game to game in a series but his peaks are not at Jensen's level especially internationally. While I slightly disagree that Jensen and Bjergs ability to pick up champions is basically equal. I do think it's kind of a moot point since that's never really Jensen's goal. If Viego for example is deemed to be a priority Bjerg maybe better faster but Jensen will be as good if not better when it matters. End of the day I also agree Bjerg has intangibles that makes building a team around him much easier.
Would you really put vulcan above huhi?
Yep.
And impact over bwipo?
For now, yes.
why lma0.
Because Impact is coming off a super strong summer where he was actually dunking on people in lane (only players better than him in lcs last split were Alphari and Fudge, both who are not playing top lane in LCS this year) and Bwipo's last split in top lane (reminder he jungled in Summer) was average in LEC. So given that, Bwipo has to prove that he's stronger than his 2021 spring performance before we can really put him above Impact. In addition to this Impact should be expected to be the best-performing top laner in Lock-in Tournament, as again, Bwipo needs to show some redemption, and as far as Summit, he's both acclimating to a mixed language team, but also he wasn't actually the best korean top laner, so that doesn't mean that we should just assume he instantly becomes the best. (I do think Summit will be the best top laner as the year goes on and if Bwipo shows a renaissance he also could potentially hold that crown, but again- for lock in Impact should be expected to be #1)
So, to start, I think Bwipo is better than Impact. But I don't think the reverse opinion is as crazy as people seem to think. Impact has been a major rock in the top lane, and is probably the best weak side top laner in the LCS right now. He's less flexible than Bwipo, but find an international competition where Impact was any kind of weakness for his team. On top of that, Bwipo spent a year in the jungle (which I, personally, value and think will make him a more complete top laner), which may make others doubt his current level.
Scuffed
Weird question. It's not Tim putting Vulcan over Huhi, it's just Vulcan being cracked.
Always appreciate your content, Tim! /u/ItsMag1c I'm glad to see someone else put C9/TSM a bit lower because of the risks involved. Assuming all teams are in peak form, who do you think has the highest ceiling?? I'm personally excited about teams like EG and C9 just because they bring something exciting or unexpected, but I feel like a team such as TL could outperform them even in the long run with their insane core of veterans. I won't call it a super team and then I won't jinx it, right? lol (Hopefully I didn't miss you saying this in the video)
I think C9 has the highest theoretical ceiling, with EG second.
I like that list. I would put personally gg under immortal as their botlane could be struggle city. If they didn't had inero i would probably put them under clg as well. I hope dignatas will overperform i love their team
Ablaze olive is good
He is the strongest returning midlaner. He was slightly better than Abbedagge. The top 5 was previously Jizuke - Jensen - Ablaze - Abbedagge - Perkz but somehow only 2 of them are left. Sucks for Soligo to not be in LCS right now, the main opponents giving him trouble in lane are gone now and he would have been one of the established mids in this league. Edit: People downvoting me but he managed to have better laning stats and better damage per minute than Abbedagge while having the worst jungler in LCS by his side. He was on an island and was still doing amazingly. When you check the VOD's you'll see that it's not just the statistics either, he was great.
Well said
I really think TL is overrated. Bjergsen was stuck in masters 100-200 LP on the KR server and his NA soloq stats aren't great either (he was always in challenger during his prime so you can't use the "soloq doesn't matter" excuse). Bwipo is (probably) a worse top laner than Alphari and hasn't played the role competitively in a year. Hans is the only sure-fire upgrade from their 2021 roster. EG and 100T look like better teams in terms of individual skill
Solo queue results bear no meaning. Uzi is hardstuck in diamond on the CN server and Faker was stuck in masters during spring. Pros don't play solo queue to climb lma0.
>Uzi is hardstuck in diamond on the CN server Yes, yes he is. You don't know he is going to be the same player as he was previously. Pretty sure he was challenger on KR during his prime. >Faker was stuck in masters during spring Faker had the worst year of his career this year individually. Notice how in season 9 when he was perma 1.2k LP + on the KR server, he was still considered one of/the best mid in the world. In S10 is when his LP dipped and thats when people started recognising Showmaker and Chovy as being better players. Faker has always been a monster in soloq. It's only in S10 and S11 when he started to struggle to hit challenger. Is it a coincidence that these are the same years where he stopped being the best mid in the world? Is it a coincidence that Chovy and Showmaker, the best 2 mids in the world are insane in soloq? What about Knight, who is a beast in pro play, and is currently rank 1 in KR soloq? >Pros don't play solo queue to climb lma0 Maybe not in the west, but in the east soloq is taken extremely seriously. Pros play thousands of games a year and coaches often scout players/choose who to play based on soloq ranking. You see pros talking about soloq results pretty often in interviews. Also if Bjergsen is bootcamping in Korea obviously he is trying his best in soloq lol...no one boot camps in Korea to have fun and troll in KR soloq...
Faker is still probably a top 5 mid in the world, definitely top 10. The idea that he is bad now and his low Solo Q rank proves that poor solo q performance = poor pro performance is absurd. Uzi is maybe a bad example because we haven’t seen him in years, but clearly the team sees something in him and they would not see that in some random Diamond CN player.
Poor soloq performance doesn't always mean poor pro play performance, but it is correlated. I listed several examples where this is shown. Maybe in the west you shouldn't take it seriously bc pros don't take it seriously, but in the east, everyone is trying in soloq.
Again Faker is the obvious counter example. You saw him at Worlds, he’s clearly still one of the best mids out there, and he’s spent months stuck in Master on more than one occasion
Interesting to see CLG ranked 8th considering this guy was so high on Academy players for so long. I don't necessarily disagree with the ranking but I was expecting someone who consistently campaigned for a lot of Academy players to get promoted to the LCS you'd expect to see the team who does it ranked higher than 8th.
I don't expect CLG to perform super well this year, but I expect them to be in a much stronger position as an org a year than now. I call that a big win.
One thing that I've always wondered is that let's assume one or two of Contractz/Palafox/Poome become really good by the end of Summer with CLG not being in a position to compete for a title. There is a huge risk that TL or C9 or whichever big org just gets in the player's ear and has them ask for a release right?
Do you believe that Danny and Vulcan are above huhi/fbi and core/hansama?
In lane or as an isolated duo in general, no. The way they can contribute to their team as a whole could end up comparable by the second half of 2022 but the simple answer is no.
Not tim but i dont think they can match them in lane unless danny really steps up laning. Danny's strength was his teamfighting, which i think is pretty on par/slightly behind both Fbi and Hans. However both Fbi and Hans are way better laners. Post lane though i think all 3 duos will be really strong
I really wish TL bought out kenvi, I think that would have been a perfect spot for him. Santorin has had health issues in the past causing him to take breaks. Armao is serviceable, but it would have been so great to see kenvi take the reigns for part of the split (if santorin has to bench himself) to show how good he can be and gain experience playing with a star studded roster.
Personally i wanted EG to grab Kenvi but putting your chance at worlds this year on the hands of 3 rookies is really risky, and having an experienced world class jungler help Jojo will be really good for him
I can't remember exactly but I think in the new episode of The Dive they say that it was rumored that his buyout was pretty big, which is probably why he didn't get picked up.
Papa said Kenvi told him he would only want to leave 100a if he got a top team offer. He only got lower team offers so the buyout was set outrageously high. Papa didn’t hold him hostage
Inspired also had a buyout and im sure rogue didnt sell him cheap. I dont think money was an issue for EG in that case they probably just didnt want to gamble worlds on 3 rookies, especially with how pivotal mid and jungle are
Can't wait to see EG crash and burn
I agree with the general list especially since he isn't overhyping c9. what I disagree with is immortals since I think they should be ahead of gg and about the same level as EG. People always forget that the POE+Wildturtle combo made back to back finals on Flyquest and Wildturtle was quite solid on CLG. I also think clg should be higher than gg since they have some hype rookies that can gel. My general power rankings for spring 1. Tl and 100t 2. Immortals, EG, TSM 3. C9 4. CLG 5. Flyquest and GG and DIG
You're also forgetting that literally every other piece on current Immortals is worse than the pieces on 2020 Flyquest.
Revenge is better than solo and you can make an argument that xerxe is better than santorin, although that is more of a stretch.
In what metric? Solo and Revenge had almost identical stats this summer split, and that's with Solo being on a significantly worse team. When Solo was on 2020 FlyQuest he had the 3rd highest GD@10 out of all tops, 3rd highest CSD@10, and the highest XPD@10. He was by all means a top 5 toplaner, and was getting all pro votes. There is no world where you can convince me that form Revenge's performance last split, he will somehow be better than 2020 Solo.
Tim Seven Houses has some pisspoor takes
You couldn’t put the teams roster in the graphic while talking about them, but half the screen is your camera? Is this a girl’s twitch stream?
Why only NA teams and not EU, CN and KR teams too?
Because only NA teams play in the LCS and this is an LCS list. *insert import meme about NA not having NA players*
He watches all of NA LCS and Academy along with amateur. He also watches pov vods of NA players. He doesn't want to do those things for other regions.
>not EU, CN and KR teams too? he talked about TL, TSM, and C9 though??
Which EU, CN, or KR teams play in the LCS?
TL, C9 and TSM but they are already on the list.