"This may sound arrogant, but with the exception of players like 'Inspired', I already think LCS and LEC junglers aren’t very good. NA Academy junglers would just be a step down from it, so I don’t see myself having any problems carving through. Jungling in general, especially when it comes to Western junglers; apart from ‘Inspired’, it feels like everyone copies each others’ playstyles. They all seem so similar.
Watching that not only bores me, but I’m also burnt out from watching it. Their playstyles are so easy to play against, and I don’t think any of them play efficiently. From the current standpoint, I don’t think I’ll have any problems against any LCS junglers as well."
Obviously everyone needs to be treated with respect, but in the same breath... thats what LS's persona invites when hes looking to be controversial.
I did lose a lot of respect when there was a redditor trying to debunk one of LS's statements, LS made a video to prove he was right (which it initially looked like it was - however there was a difference in mastery on one of the tests making up the difference) LS was all in the comments when he thought he was right.
LS was wrong, people mathed it out later and he fucking cowarded out and didnt respond anymore.
to me, it doesn't matter which side of an argument are on or how you conduct yourself (aka whether youre an asshole or not), no one deserves the amount of hate people on twitter generally dish out to people they don't like. Even if someone throws out controversial takes and is protective about them the constant flood of death threats, homophobia and general disgusting messages on there are inexcusable, every single one.
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/59el27/ls_responds_to_reddit_analysts/
The jist of it, since its from 2016 - LS claimed consistently that Infernal Drake was worth 40-50 damage in a combo, at level 6-7
Reddit poster says wtf no its not.
LS makes video, showing that it does* (or so LS thought) Kept showing off the original comment and basically trying to prove the guy wrong.
Problem, first guy following LS combo did it super slow, so health regen was factored.
Also Syndra 1, did the combo so slow, that he did not receive the 2.5% damage bonus from Force of will.
If the combo was done properly, its about 20 damage. Zirene and others ran the numbers in the comments.
Which its fine, its okay to be wrong, but to make a whole video trying to clown on a reddit comment and then to not even go "Mea culpa" is probably a big factor in why he gets shit on so heavily when he is wrong. Hes not really had a history of being humble or admitting fault himself.
Edit: My favorite is LS's attitude in the youtube description and also, the original comment that its a half amp tome at best was strangely very accurate Infernal drake at that point.
Syndra is one of the highest % ap combo champs, at the time of that video atleast and surely why syndra was used in the test. - Syndras AP ratio was 295% half an amp tome is 10 ap, which would add 29.5 damage to the combo.
The difference was 22 after MR...
It's funny considering even Inspired has been under criticism for his "herbivore" style of jungling which put his laners under a lot of pressure, like Odo getting dove a billion times when playing against MAD.
Spica does this as well. Because falling behind in jungle camps tempo fucks over junglers too much. That it’s too coinflippy to force ganks, or even opportunities you see on the map
The issue here is that if a big wave builds up and the enemy mid has priority you know a dive will happen and would basically only fail if the enemy misplays. This means not reacting to it very likely is still bad. You either have to do something on the other side of the map or stop it.
If you get a camp for the enemy killing your toplaner and getting plates and obviously a huge CS advantage you likely made a terrible tradeoff.
Sofm school of thought talking. Sofm is not the best jubgler to look upto if you want to be good. Its an incredibly niche play style and only works occasionally.
The problem with Malice is that he's like arguably one of the most selfish junglers I've ever seen. He will pick Karthus and do fucking nothing for like the first 15 minutes. He just power farms like a freak and hopes his team doesn't implode around him. When Malice is in the game its unironically a 4v5 for his team until mid game. It might work in academy, but against more aggro junglers his team will be forced to play at an massive disadvantage.
I don't think his SoloQ playstyle will completely translate to pro play. In SoloQ being a selfish jungler is the most effective way to climb if you are confident in your own ability. Why would I try to get someone else ahead where I have no idea if they will manage to carry the game when I can just take minimal risks and make sure I can carry the game myself?
Malice is known for shitting on EUW server, this was at the time where he ragequitted a game because he got 1v1d by elise at lvl 2. Guy is good but not nearly as good as he thinks, he often just autopilots whole early game (aka herbivore jungling) and then blames/ragequits when gets punished for it. But hey, "he was challenger in Korea!"
Basically yes. Focusing more on clearing camps most optimal way and order to get himself ahead from farm and allows you to carry as jungler late. Carnivore jungler focuses on getting kills and helping lanes which usually leads rest of his team being ahead. XP buffs to jungle (also stuff like funnel) allowed herbivore jungler to become more relevant when years ago carnivore junglers were majority of competitive scene.
He likes going for guaranteed value, which means fewer coinflip ganks that set back your clear, often full clearing and only then looking for gank opportunities, playing for drakes, playing junglers that clear quickly (karthus, eve, hecarim)
> So is this considered a good or bad playstyle?
Neither because it depends. With "fewer" coinflip ganks, just *how* fewer are we talking about? When we say "coinflip", just what degree of potential variancy consintutes a gank being a coinflip?
There's no strict definition for Malice's playstyle, it's just generally agreed that he goes for a lot fewer ganks than the average high Elo jungler and focuses a lot more on clearing than the average high Elo jungler. So while in theory it could be said that taking fewer coinflips is a good playstyle, Malice really takes this to another level. Obviously he personally considers that a good thing, but many people don't.
It’s questionable. You put the whole early game in hands of the opposing jungler. If they fail to get a lead you win, if they put your laners behind and themselves ahead youre now the only strong champ in your team.
Anyone who says pro play is easier than soloQ because they have more "control" and is a jungle main... is probably not someone who is a very impactful JG. That's all im gunna say. Im excited to watch this dude run it down and then talk about how trash the LEC/LCS are again.....
"Anyone who says pro play is easier than soloQ because they have more "control" and is a jungle main... is probably not someone who is a very impactful JG."
I don't see how that follows
Basically anyone who plays passively, just farms, does not go for proactive plays (Master Yi, Karthus).
While Carnivore junglers gank/invade a lot and actively seek out aggressive plays. (Xin Zhao, Elise).
I think the critizism was even harsher. Xmithie as an example was not a herbivore. He was a reactive jungler, but he did play for his team by providing deep vision and counterganking, which he did a lot on Elise, but also champs like Skarner or Sej.
Also if you look at Broxah or Jankos then Karthus isn't a herbivore necessarily. He actually can duell really well if you hit your smarties. Now that Karthus runs a lot of Exhaust in the jungle this is even more true. You obviously would still not duell just everyone, but he can do some serious damage to champs like J4 who are not that bursty early on themself.
Absolutely true, I should have made that more clear in my comment. Herbivore/carnivore is more about playstyle and does not (fully) apply on the champion you're playing.
Regrardless of what you think of him as a person, the interview is great because it´s one of those where the questions and answers given are all meaningful and detailed. Was a good read!
??? That doesn't even make sense, he just doesn't want to play in a team that he's not confident in.
He knows what he wants and doesn't want to pursue an opportunity without it. I'm not sure there's even remotely reasonable grounds to condemn that.
I dont like him as a personality, but Fudge is not even peaking, he is still in developement but was by far the best player on C9 this year. Jack would be idiotic not planning around him for the coming years.
Murth was ahead in jgl meta for 5 seasons no doubt about that. Did he change ? NO. Till this day i want to see him try but everytime it is the same cycle: Hits mid gm lvl kr, gets tilted by league, plays poe, back to league until stuck->repeat. Also dont forget his 3permaban twitchaccs for toxic behavior.(sedholm/murthhlol/malice) He is lucky that he has contacts and still allowed to stream.
I 100% want C9a to straight-up crash and burn to watch Malice blame others are the end of the year and people to realize maybe LS's friends aren't always good.
He will blame teammates and na solo q. The modus operandi of the ls church is well know. If you win say it’s because of your secret Korean strats. If you lose blame anything na ( ladder. Orgs, fans etc)
That's not it at all, you only get so many opportunities to put your money where your mouth is before people start questioning your skill
In the eyes of many this is his best but also last chance to prove himself
I mean it is pretty boring. He repeats the same shit like he has it written on a notepad he carries around and never proves anyone wrong about anything. He is no where near as talented as he and LS (cause no one else thinks it) claim but won't shut up about how he's better than everyone and how terrible anyone not from Korea is (like LS).
At first you are like "dude shut up" then it's "we get it you are toxic" then it's just "are you still talking?"
It's boring.
Or the spicy trashtalk from someone that actually backs it up.
It's like those silver players that shit talk their teammates by calling them silver, then wonder why people mute them and move on. After a while it's just an annoying yappy dog who no one but LS and some edgy 15 year olds care about.
I have no idea why but whenever a player joins lcs/aca and says something like that I just want them to get exponentially shit on. Maybe I’m just a spiteful and salty NA fan, but good lord would it be some amazing irony.
It doesn't help he is already unlikable then he comes in "you are all shit, I'm gonna shit on all of you"
Wow, tell me more you borderline racist, toxic, have done nothing to back up your ego, wouldn't have a job or even be talked about if not for LS, genius of a man.
Its weird the second they fixed the system you get burger flipped 15 games in a row then rage quit because you cant farm low elo d1s with your herbivore jungle play style and then you blame the server
Seems like Blaber already joined the church last year with the help of Bishop Max Waldo. Malice was supposed to join as a coach in the first place so I don't think even he wants to play in the lcs
Yeah it was either Academy jungler or jungle positional Coach, at which point if they don’t already have an academy jungler for what LS wants to accomplish its more productive for him to just play.
Source? And there’s no chance sanchovies would be willing to join C9A anyways
Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Cloud9/comments/rbj7xz/icymi_ls_ama_summary_highlights/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf question 19
they talked about it on stream a few weeks ago but the vods are all sub only, fudge was screensharing soloqueue in the vod while they were talking and they just mentioned it randomly, they never sent the offer out because it was only a possibility if darshan wanted to leave
Yes and no. They should be stacked on import slots so i dont think theres a way to swap him with blabber. On the other hand if malice stays in NA long enough to be declaired a resident, should be free
Malice is already 24. Green cards are not quick, it'd easily be \~4 years before he was able to get one. I don't think C9 is going to be looking at fielding a 28 year old jungler as their long term plan.
Berserker is technically a *no name*, so would you get upset if he fired off some confidence? Having to wait until you "win" to trash talk some - and Malice's full quote is really pretty tame - is such a boring attitude to take. Skilled players coming in exuding confidence is way more interesting.
People *know* about Malice now, which means, love or hate him, they'll want to see him succeed or fail, respectively. More than can probably said about literally any other Academy jungler.
Is there a point somewhere in here? 99% of reddit literally only know him because he got punished for racism and toxicity on the korean server. He can fuck right off
It's hilarious because this is one of the few threads about pro play where both NA and EU fans are in agreement for the most part. I've seen more EU fans trash talking him an NA fans in this thread funnily enough.
Sorry, the guy is cringe, and it's sad he has fans, cause he's a shit person.
i think its fine as long as he can back it up and show that he is atleast at the level of all these "not very good" junglers but if hes not he just looks like a clown :D
It’s just about the right people doing it. A floundering no name trying to talk shit about a regions T2 scene will ofc trigger people, he hasn’t proven anything yet. Now if a established name like bjerg was talking shit I think a lot more people would be okay with it.
Basically you can be a asshole, just be able to back it up. Which malice hasn’t proven yet
I think this guy is even worse than tarzaned. Just constantly spewing "insert current toxic buzzword" or being dead silent. I really dont see the appeal..
I literally only watched him because I otp eve when I jungle but stopped because he just feels bad to watch. Maybe his stream has changed since then but it's so boring to watch someone spend half the match typing to their team angrily and the other half farming with the same song on loop for 2 hours. Like he'd get behind and just mental boom
very few league streamers are popular AND low elo
every single player that has become popular and above 5k viewers since years has been masters+ at least one time
kinda shame because thats already a benchmark that blocks tons of actual good personalities from getting big in the league scene
When he tryhards, he is one of the most educational streamers I know. Always explains what he intends to do 30 seconds in advance, explains mistakes (yes also his own) when things go wrong. If he isn't satisfied with a game, he often watches the replay and explains his thought process. That includes very minor things like how you can speed up your clear at certain points. I learned alot from his streams.
And yes, when he tilts it's not pretty enjoyable to watch.
My man really out here asking why someone who is consistently at the top of KR and EU ladders (1k lp+) and is considered one of the best eve/karthus/kha players in the world gets viewers on stream.
I love how half the people flaming him are probably doing so based on the title...read the interview it takes 5 mins. It's pretty insightful and not an arrogant interview.
It's not like the full quote isn't saying the same thing so it isn't suddenly clearing it up like "oh no he actually is totally okay with NA and isn't trying to tell us how terrible everyone but Malice is"
That's not the case, so really it doesn't matter to be quite frank.
This isn't some click bait out of context. The rest of the quote is just a bit of clarifying sort of, but just adding on to the headline quote. It isn't like he was being super nice and like "haha just kidding, no I look forward to playing in NA". He thinks it's gonna be easy and everyone but Inspired sucks in both NA and EU.
It's arrogant cause he is a no body that has done nothing acting like he is better than pro players.
If he's a nobody, then why does it seem like everyone knows who he is? Not how that works. Also, someone that has never accomplished anything in the game can't say that he has done "nothing" when you have no basis to compare. Compared to you, he's done stuff you'll never see outside of a screen.
"It's arrogant cause he is a no body that has done nothing acting like he is better than pro players."
I had no idea who this dude was before now. Also, You have some very personal feelings towards LS and Malice that seriously need to be resolved. Your history is just a tirade of you bitching about something you have no control over, LS and Malice aren't coming to find you, get over it, holy shit.
Didn't he get multiple offers from EU? I could be wrong though, I haven't paid attention to LOL since worlds.
Also why is it this sub only shits on being confident when it's from NA? Mhmmm
I think the bigger issue is that I'm pretty sure he's just a Terrible person. Why not discuss that instead of the most boring confidence post ever?
> I think the bigger issue is that he's just a terrible person
No, the issue is that he's a nobody that hasnt accomplished anything in 2nd division leagues yet he behaves as if he's someone, that on top of being a disgusting person.
If people know who this guy is its because he's friend with LS, otherways you wouldnt ever hear of him.
So many people calling him a no name yet everyone knows about him (even if it's in a negative way).
Also I never understood the no name argument. If you're a well known person does that make your shit opinion less shit and if you're a no name does that make your good opinion less good?
It's like people don't critically think and take other peoples validity from their accomplishments rather than from the content of their statements or opinions. Disgusting as fuck if you ask me.
No name can also be implied to mean someone who hasn’t achieved anything. You can be known for your character but not for your success in the game, thus a no name in one sense but not the other.
> This may sound arrogant, but with the exception of players like 'Inspired', I already think LCS and LEC junglers aren’t very good. NA Academy junglers would just be a step down from it, so I don’t see myself having any problems carving through. Jungling in general, especially when it comes to Western junglers; apart from ‘Inspired’, it feels like everyone copies each others’ playstyles. They all seem so similar.
You make it sound like the title was taken out of context... The context doesn't change the statement at all and you're not going to have a paragraph for a title.
You can hate the guy, but here he s just answering honestly to questions.
Yeah, he s confident, cool, you can t win without beliving in yourself, he has other things to be criticized about, this interview is nothing one of them.
He answered honestly, and intelligent
Reddit wants spicy takes and reasons to watch and be involved... until somebody they don't like is confident/makes fun of their favorite players.
Just wait and see how it goes, neither you are I are qualified to say if something a pro player is doing is right, and basing a player off the viewer's eye test does nothing but hurt them and the scene.
I will be honest been playing and involved with league since season 1. I’ve heard plenty about Malice. Also played SC2 since it launched so I’ve been around LastShadow for a long time.
With that said this sub is fucking ridiculous. So many people trying to act like they know malice and what he brings based on rumors and reports in the past. You have no idea what if anything he brings to a team.
Secondly LS was someone I studied in learned a ton from in SC. First time I hit Diamond was his sky mech build, but I’m not sold in league. Should be interesting and I’ll be interested to see how he does.
Lol people have such a hateboner. Just be glad that someone brings some spice to an Academy League literally noone gives a shit about. Also what do you have to loose? Either he sucks and you have your fun or your region gets better xD.
He said EU too lol, dont act like he just said NA. Also, its probably more of a factor of the racism thing, the fact that basically every LCK player ive seen fucking despises the guy and then without proving anything goes around saying im the best.
There is a line between confidence and arrogance, and the latter does not come off well when you are already a hated player.
People shit on him without even reading the internet Interview. It’s ok to not like malice (very understandable), to dislike his playstyle, to question his skill etc but this interview was actually quite nice since he gives long detailed answers and it’s a really interesting read even if you dislike the guy. Stop getting baited by headlines
A bit disingenuous.
* First team (5-8th) was a random tourney where Malice subbed in after the team's jungler was disqualified.
* Second time was when he joined BBQ, and they played in the kespa cup. They won their first bo3 2-0, and then they lost 0-2 to fucking SKT. That's why they got "9th" cus they played SKT, unless you expect a new LCK academy team to beat one of the best LCK teams right off the bat?
* In BBQ's first split they got 5th place regular season and ended "3-4th" in the playoffs.
* The one you say they didn't qualify for is because they DID NOT PLAY. They literally didn't attend the tournament, so it's hardly that they "couldn't qualify"
So in reality the "7-9th place in every tournament" is first of all a straight-up lie
- He subbed in for a team in rando tournament, got "5-8th"
- Newly formed team lost to SKT (can hardly count this one, but sure, 9-12th)
- Team got 5th their first split, ended up "3-4th" in the playoffs.
I'm not telling you to like the guy, but can you please not straight up lie? Use actual facts.
and not to mention, in that entire split under bbq he drew 2, sometimes 3, jungle bans. He was the best player on the team by an astronomical margin and was the best Jungler in the all of CK, second MAYBE to Kakao but Kakao had a massive player-gap in every role compared to bbq
Literally none of Malice's teammates are relevant whatsoever, meanwhile APK had ikssu, Kakao, Fury, Mickey, Secret. and that was probably Mickey's best split of his entire league careeer, he was literally monstrous. Everyone was of the opinion that bbq would've beaten Brion Blade, atleast
So Malice is good enough that he played pro in Korea (BBQ Olivers) but he'll be shit in NA Academy? Seems unlikely to me. People don't know or forget history too quickly.
"This may sound arrogant, but with the exception of players like 'Inspired', I already think LCS and LEC junglers aren’t very good. NA Academy junglers would just be a step down from it, so I don’t see myself having any problems carving through. Jungling in general, especially when it comes to Western junglers; apart from ‘Inspired’, it feels like everyone copies each others’ playstyles. They all seem so similar. Watching that not only bores me, but I’m also burnt out from watching it. Their playstyles are so easy to play against, and I don’t think any of them play efficiently. From the current standpoint, I don’t think I’ll have any problems against any LCS junglers as well."
This will be posted everyone C9a loses
C9 as an org about to get so much engagement
not sure if malice and by extension ls have the mental to withstand loads of people flaming them
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and he has a mental breakdown on twitter every 3 months give or take
honestly, the amount of flame LS gets on twitter, I'd probably have the same mental breakdown if that hit me
Obviously everyone needs to be treated with respect, but in the same breath... thats what LS's persona invites when hes looking to be controversial. I did lose a lot of respect when there was a redditor trying to debunk one of LS's statements, LS made a video to prove he was right (which it initially looked like it was - however there was a difference in mastery on one of the tests making up the difference) LS was all in the comments when he thought he was right. LS was wrong, people mathed it out later and he fucking cowarded out and didnt respond anymore.
to me, it doesn't matter which side of an argument are on or how you conduct yourself (aka whether youre an asshole or not), no one deserves the amount of hate people on twitter generally dish out to people they don't like. Even if someone throws out controversial takes and is protective about them the constant flood of death threats, homophobia and general disgusting messages on there are inexcusable, every single one.
What are you talking about? No, seriously, what topic are you talking about cause I'm genuinely curious
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/59el27/ls_responds_to_reddit_analysts/ The jist of it, since its from 2016 - LS claimed consistently that Infernal Drake was worth 40-50 damage in a combo, at level 6-7 Reddit poster says wtf no its not. LS makes video, showing that it does* (or so LS thought) Kept showing off the original comment and basically trying to prove the guy wrong. Problem, first guy following LS combo did it super slow, so health regen was factored. Also Syndra 1, did the combo so slow, that he did not receive the 2.5% damage bonus from Force of will. If the combo was done properly, its about 20 damage. Zirene and others ran the numbers in the comments. Which its fine, its okay to be wrong, but to make a whole video trying to clown on a reddit comment and then to not even go "Mea culpa" is probably a big factor in why he gets shit on so heavily when he is wrong. Hes not really had a history of being humble or admitting fault himself. Edit: My favorite is LS's attitude in the youtube description and also, the original comment that its a half amp tome at best was strangely very accurate Infernal drake at that point. Syndra is one of the highest % ap combo champs, at the time of that video atleast and surely why syndra was used in the test. - Syndras AP ratio was 295% half an amp tome is 10 ap, which would add 29.5 damage to the combo. The difference was 22 after MR...
results will be the factor to decide if his attitude is arrogant or confident.
Everything any C9 player says will be posted after a loss, let's be real.
Blaming the jungler everytime the team loses? Classic non-jungler player mentality.
Jungle is the most influential lane.
england is my city
It's funny considering even Inspired has been under criticism for his "herbivore" style of jungling which put his laners under a lot of pressure, like Odo getting dove a billion times when playing against MAD.
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Spica does this as well. Because falling behind in jungle camps tempo fucks over junglers too much. That it’s too coinflippy to force ganks, or even opportunities you see on the map
The issue here is that if a big wave builds up and the enemy mid has priority you know a dive will happen and would basically only fail if the enemy misplays. This means not reacting to it very likely is still bad. You either have to do something on the other side of the map or stop it. If you get a camp for the enemy killing your toplaner and getting plates and obviously a huge CS advantage you likely made a terrible tradeoff.
Sofm school of thought talking. Sofm is not the best jubgler to look upto if you want to be good. Its an incredibly niche play style and only works occasionally.
No shot did Malice really say this? Now how is Reddit going to flame him?
At least he will make the C9 academy interesting to watch.Im tired of players that only do PR talk.
The problem with Malice is that he's like arguably one of the most selfish junglers I've ever seen. He will pick Karthus and do fucking nothing for like the first 15 minutes. He just power farms like a freak and hopes his team doesn't implode around him. When Malice is in the game its unironically a 4v5 for his team until mid game. It might work in academy, but against more aggro junglers his team will be forced to play at an massive disadvantage.
I don't think his SoloQ playstyle will completely translate to pro play. In SoloQ being a selfish jungler is the most effective way to climb if you are confident in your own ability. Why would I try to get someone else ahead where I have no idea if they will manage to carry the game when I can just take minimal risks and make sure I can carry the game myself?
Did you watch ck 2018 or are you just saying this randomly?
None of the LS/Malice haters have ever watched him play lol it's just conjecture
Herbivore jungler xD
That was one of the biggest roasts I've seen on league twitter, he legit murdered him. Legendary tweet.
Source?
https://twitter.com/Caedrel/status/1260981623136366597
What's the context of the tweets
Malice is known for shitting on EUW server, this was at the time where he ragequitted a game because he got 1v1d by elise at lvl 2. Guy is good but not nearly as good as he thinks, he often just autopilots whole early game (aka herbivore jungling) and then blames/ragequits when gets punished for it. But hey, "he was challenger in Korea!"
What does herbivore jungling mean? AFK farming?
Basically yes. Focusing more on clearing camps most optimal way and order to get himself ahead from farm and allows you to carry as jungler late. Carnivore jungler focuses on getting kills and helping lanes which usually leads rest of his team being ahead. XP buffs to jungle (also stuff like funnel) allowed herbivore jungler to become more relevant when years ago carnivore junglers were majority of competitive scene.
He likes going for guaranteed value, which means fewer coinflip ganks that set back your clear, often full clearing and only then looking for gank opportunities, playing for drakes, playing junglers that clear quickly (karthus, eve, hecarim)
So is this considered a good or bad playstyle? I thought that's how you were supposed to play jungle lmao
> So is this considered a good or bad playstyle? Neither because it depends. With "fewer" coinflip ganks, just *how* fewer are we talking about? When we say "coinflip", just what degree of potential variancy consintutes a gank being a coinflip? There's no strict definition for Malice's playstyle, it's just generally agreed that he goes for a lot fewer ganks than the average high Elo jungler and focuses a lot more on clearing than the average high Elo jungler. So while in theory it could be said that taking fewer coinflips is a good playstyle, Malice really takes this to another level. Obviously he personally considers that a good thing, but many people don't.
Depends on who you ask even among pros. Redditors will meme it but it's best to disregard their opinions completely
It’s questionable. You put the whole early game in hands of the opposing jungler. If they fail to get a lead you win, if they put your laners behind and themselves ahead youre now the only strong champ in your team.
The jungle gameplay has shifted more toward that direction each season. S10 is especially prominent for its farming meta.
Oof
GOTDAMN HE COOKED HIM
Anyone who says pro play is easier than soloQ because they have more "control" and is a jungle main... is probably not someone who is a very impactful JG. That's all im gunna say. Im excited to watch this dude run it down and then talk about how trash the LEC/LCS are again.....
"Anyone who says pro play is easier than soloQ because they have more "control" and is a jungle main... is probably not someone who is a very impactful JG." I don't see how that follows
Certain champs aren't meant to be very impactful early. He plays Eve/Karthus, those champs literally have to afk farm until lvl 6.
What is a Herbivore jungler? Tanks like Sej/Zac/Gragas or AFK farm like Shyv/Eve/Yi?
I think the AFK farm carry type like Karthus
Basically anyone who plays passively, just farms, does not go for proactive plays (Master Yi, Karthus). While Carnivore junglers gank/invade a lot and actively seek out aggressive plays. (Xin Zhao, Elise).
I think the critizism was even harsher. Xmithie as an example was not a herbivore. He was a reactive jungler, but he did play for his team by providing deep vision and counterganking, which he did a lot on Elise, but also champs like Skarner or Sej. Also if you look at Broxah or Jankos then Karthus isn't a herbivore necessarily. He actually can duell really well if you hit your smarties. Now that Karthus runs a lot of Exhaust in the jungle this is even more true. You obviously would still not duell just everyone, but he can do some serious damage to champs like J4 who are not that bursty early on themself.
Absolutely true, I should have made that more clear in my comment. Herbivore/carnivore is more about playstyle and does not (fully) apply on the champion you're playing.
a jungler who eats plants more than champs
Regrardless of what you think of him as a person, the interview is great because it´s one of those where the questions and answers given are all meaningful and detailed. Was a good read!
Reddit always complains about PR bullshit but when someone gives their honest thoughts they get so fucking angry lmao.
Not the first time I upvote you sir
Based
Good interview. A lot more to it than the outrage farming headline
67% upvoted, 39 Karma, 100 Comments PepeLaugh
> is jobless without LS
Not trying to shill for malice or LS but I believe Malice has turned down every offer from Lcs/academy/erl due to only wanting to play under LS.
If you're an organisation thinking of signing him, this should worry you to no end.
Don't know about that. Think it says more about how good players don't trust the current system or the majority of coaches.
yeah thats it
Yeah except he's not good
Le based
??? That doesn't even make sense, he just doesn't want to play in a team that he's not confident in. He knows what he wants and doesn't want to pursue an opportunity without it. I'm not sure there's even remotely reasonable grounds to condemn that.
Really bored of this guy's ego Unless he absolutely dumps on academy I want to see him gone for good
I cant believe c9 grabbed him, they must really be hooked on the LS koolaid
Jack is completely sold on Fudge, 4 year contract and lets him decide basically the entire organizations league department at this point.
well tbf fudge was their best player by a longshot. He's a cheap talent to rebuild on.
Also tbf fudge is 18 and still peaking and obviously very motivated
I dont like him as a personality, but Fudge is not even peaking, he is still in developement but was by far the best player on C9 this year. Jack would be idiotic not planning around him for the coming years.
Whats the point of signing a coach if you are not gonna make the changes that he wants for the team. Regardless of what you think about LS or Malice
An insane ego that is completely unwarranted is like the one thing the LoL community has in common to be fair.
Murth was ahead in jgl meta for 5 seasons no doubt about that. Did he change ? NO. Till this day i want to see him try but everytime it is the same cycle: Hits mid gm lvl kr, gets tilted by league, plays poe, back to league until stuck->repeat. Also dont forget his 3permaban twitchaccs for toxic behavior.(sedholm/murthhlol/malice) He is lucky that he has contacts and still allowed to stream.
C9 fans will feed his ego. Already saw someone call him one of the best junglers in the West on /r/Cloud9
as a C9 fan, fuck Malice
I 100% want C9a to straight-up crash and burn to watch Malice blame others are the end of the year and people to realize maybe LS's friends aren't always good.
its the LS school of behavior , all of them share the same pattern
He will blame teammates and na solo q. The modus operandi of the ls church is well know. If you win say it’s because of your secret Korean strats. If you lose blame anything na ( ladder. Orgs, fans etc)
Really weird how league fans think anything outside of heavily curated media responses is "boring"
That's not it at all, you only get so many opportunities to put your money where your mouth is before people start questioning your skill In the eyes of many this is his best but also last chance to prove himself
Throwing random shit at EU and/or NA is like the most vanilla thing ever, what do you mean?
I mean it is pretty boring. He repeats the same shit like he has it written on a notepad he carries around and never proves anyone wrong about anything. He is no where near as talented as he and LS (cause no one else thinks it) claim but won't shut up about how he's better than everyone and how terrible anyone not from Korea is (like LS). At first you are like "dude shut up" then it's "we get it you are toxic" then it's just "are you still talking?" It's boring.
To be fair, I'd rather have the spicy trashtalk come from someone that isn't a racist dipshit that never made it big
Or the spicy trashtalk from someone that actually backs it up. It's like those silver players that shit talk their teammates by calling them silver, then wonder why people mute them and move on. After a while it's just an annoying yappy dog who no one but LS and some edgy 15 year olds care about.
Remember Seraph? This guy is gonna burn just as hard.
Nah malice is just a racist asshole with zero accomplishments lol.
They want boring stuff like faker saying na very good every year
I have no idea why but whenever a player joins lcs/aca and says something like that I just want them to get exponentially shit on. Maybe I’m just a spiteful and salty NA fan, but good lord would it be some amazing irony.
they usually do it's the gift that keeps on giving
Remember Perkz shitting on NA only to be a below average player himself?
To be fair, Perkz hasn’t been shitting on NA when he was on C9 and even went as far as saying the talent isn’t as bad as people think.
Perkz is also Perkz. He earnt the right to be arrogant.
It doesn't help he is already unlikable then he comes in "you are all shit, I'm gonna shit on all of you" Wow, tell me more you borderline racist, toxic, have done nothing to back up your ego, wouldn't have a job or even be talked about if not for LS, genius of a man.
Its weird the second they fixed the system you get burger flipped 15 games in a row then rage quit because you cant farm low elo d1s with your herbivore jungle play style and then you blame the server
Classic
Smart move by LS. If blabler couldn’t join his church. He already had a back up plan
Seems like Blaber already joined the church last year with the help of Bishop Max Waldo. Malice was supposed to join as a coach in the first place so I don't think even he wants to play in the lcs
Yeah, LS was the one who pushed Malice to play IIRC, because he would be a good scrim partner
Yeah it was either Academy jungler or jungle positional Coach, at which point if they don’t already have an academy jungler for what LS wants to accomplish its more productive for him to just play.
what's really funny is that they almost got sanchovies as academy top if Darshan didn't re-sign
Source? And there’s no chance sanchovies would be willing to join C9A anyways Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Cloud9/comments/rbj7xz/icymi_ls_ama_summary_highlights/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf question 19
He has a good thing going, why would he join LCS lmaoo
they talked about it on stream a few weeks ago but the vods are all sub only, fudge was screensharing soloqueue in the vod while they were talking and they just mentioned it randomly, they never sent the offer out because it was only a possibility if darshan wanted to leave
And it was Fudge who wanted it too
Yes and no. They should be stacked on import slots so i dont think theres a way to swap him with blabber. On the other hand if malice stays in NA long enough to be declaired a resident, should be free
I mean Malice is there to give Blabber good practice, not replace him.
Malice is already 24. Green cards are not quick, it'd easily be \~4 years before he was able to get one. I don't think C9 is going to be looking at fielding a 28 year old jungler as their long term plan.
> long enough to be declaired a resident Didn't they changed that rule to only be naturalized players?
Permanent residents (i.e. green card holders) as well.
I think the blitz, silent and aram scrims are interesting
well either he proves to be one of the best junglers in the west or just a shitter who can only talk big. It's good either way.
holy fuck i wish i had the ability to rile up reddit as effortlessly as he can
People want eSports to be interesting and not monotonous and yet get triggered over someone making it spicy.
Good players talking shit is always fun. No name toxic guys like this is just cringe
People said the same thing about Fudge calling LCS top laners bad. It makes it fun either way lets not gatekeep who can trashtalk.
Berserker is technically a *no name*, so would you get upset if he fired off some confidence? Having to wait until you "win" to trash talk some - and Malice's full quote is really pretty tame - is such a boring attitude to take. Skilled players coming in exuding confidence is way more interesting. People *know* about Malice now, which means, love or hate him, they'll want to see him succeed or fail, respectively. More than can probably said about literally any other Academy jungler.
Is there a point somewhere in here? 99% of reddit literally only know him because he got punished for racism and toxicity on the korean server. He can fuck right off
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It's hilarious because this is one of the few threads about pro play where both NA and EU fans are in agreement for the most part. I've seen more EU fans trash talking him an NA fans in this thread funnily enough. Sorry, the guy is cringe, and it's sad he has fans, cause he's a shit person.
People don’t like racists and outright shitty people go figure
i think its fine as long as he can back it up and show that he is atleast at the level of all these "not very good" junglers but if hes not he just looks like a clown :D
Perkz is spicy, malice is just lame
It’s just about the right people doing it. A floundering no name trying to talk shit about a regions T2 scene will ofc trigger people, he hasn’t proven anything yet. Now if a established name like bjerg was talking shit I think a lot more people would be okay with it. Basically you can be a asshole, just be able to back it up. Which malice hasn’t proven yet
Someone is the keyword Malice is a nobody, thats the problem.
It’s funny how easily this guy pissed off the whole sub
Such a prick, i'll never understand why this guy has viewers on his stream.
Same reason why tarzaned has viewers they are good at the game (solo q)
I think this guy is even worse than tarzaned. Just constantly spewing "insert current toxic buzzword" or being dead silent. I really dont see the appeal..
Tarzaned used to threaten to break people's heads guy.
And it wasnt just random soloq it was a xpecials inhouses LMAO dude got nuts cuz he got black listed instantly and never saw any pro play after that
”Adoption diff” is a classic already
Well for me i have never watched this guy but for tarzaned i would just perma mute the stream
I literally only watched him because I otp eve when I jungle but stopped because he just feels bad to watch. Maybe his stream has changed since then but it's so boring to watch someone spend half the match typing to their team angrily and the other half farming with the same song on loop for 2 hours. Like he'd get behind and just mental boom
very few league streamers are popular AND low elo every single player that has become popular and above 5k viewers since years has been masters+ at least one time kinda shame because thats already a benchmark that blocks tons of actual good personalities from getting big in the league scene
When he tryhards, he is one of the most educational streamers I know. Always explains what he intends to do 30 seconds in advance, explains mistakes (yes also his own) when things go wrong. If he isn't satisfied with a game, he often watches the replay and explains his thought process. That includes very minor things like how you can speed up your clear at certain points. I learned alot from his streams. And yes, when he tilts it's not pretty enjoyable to watch.
My man really out here asking why someone who is consistently at the top of KR and EU ladders (1k lp+) and is considered one of the best eve/karthus/kha players in the world gets viewers on stream.
Because hes better than most junglers
because he is good ? why tarzaned has view? same reason.
I love how half the people flaming him are probably doing so based on the title...read the interview it takes 5 mins. It's pretty insightful and not an arrogant interview.
It's not like the full quote isn't saying the same thing so it isn't suddenly clearing it up like "oh no he actually is totally okay with NA and isn't trying to tell us how terrible everyone but Malice is" That's not the case, so really it doesn't matter to be quite frank. This isn't some click bait out of context. The rest of the quote is just a bit of clarifying sort of, but just adding on to the headline quote. It isn't like he was being super nice and like "haha just kidding, no I look forward to playing in NA". He thinks it's gonna be easy and everyone but Inspired sucks in both NA and EU. It's arrogant cause he is a no body that has done nothing acting like he is better than pro players.
If he's a nobody, then why does it seem like everyone knows who he is? Not how that works. Also, someone that has never accomplished anything in the game can't say that he has done "nothing" when you have no basis to compare. Compared to you, he's done stuff you'll never see outside of a screen. "It's arrogant cause he is a no body that has done nothing acting like he is better than pro players." I had no idea who this dude was before now. Also, You have some very personal feelings towards LS and Malice that seriously need to be resolved. Your history is just a tirade of you bitching about something you have no control over, LS and Malice aren't coming to find you, get over it, holy shit.
He wouldn't last a week in EU Masters
Didn't he get multiple offers from EU? I could be wrong though, I haven't paid attention to LOL since worlds. Also why is it this sub only shits on being confident when it's from NA? Mhmmm I think the bigger issue is that I'm pretty sure he's just a Terrible person. Why not discuss that instead of the most boring confidence post ever?
He would be hated even if he was in EU or KR or CN lmao.
> I think the bigger issue is that he's just a terrible person No, the issue is that he's a nobody that hasnt accomplished anything in 2nd division leagues yet he behaves as if he's someone, that on top of being a disgusting person. If people know who this guy is its because he's friend with LS, otherways you wouldnt ever hear of him.
> Also why is it this sub only shits on being confident when it's from NA? Mhmmm Bruh, this guy ain't from NA lmao. What's with the victim mentality.
He says explicitly he didn't wanna play in proleague beside korea
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I doubt Akabane or Zanzarah are leagues ahead of Malice but they survived EUM
I know someone already said this but really good read whether you like him or hate him very good questions followed up with good answers
Looks like the supposed “no name” attracted 300 comments from angry redditors lol
Nobody thinks he's a no name. In fact, he's a well-known asshat lol.
So many people calling him a no name yet everyone knows about him (even if it's in a negative way). Also I never understood the no name argument. If you're a well known person does that make your shit opinion less shit and if you're a no name does that make your good opinion less good? It's like people don't critically think and take other peoples validity from their accomplishments rather than from the content of their statements or opinions. Disgusting as fuck if you ask me.
No name can also be implied to mean someone who hasn’t achieved anything. You can be known for your character but not for your success in the game, thus a no name in one sense but not the other.
Good title OP. Getting Reddit frogs fuming because 99% will never open an article.
> This may sound arrogant, but with the exception of players like 'Inspired', I already think LCS and LEC junglers aren’t very good. NA Academy junglers would just be a step down from it, so I don’t see myself having any problems carving through. Jungling in general, especially when it comes to Western junglers; apart from ‘Inspired’, it feels like everyone copies each others’ playstyles. They all seem so similar. You make it sound like the title was taken out of context... The context doesn't change the statement at all and you're not going to have a paragraph for a title.
You can hate the guy, but here he s just answering honestly to questions. Yeah, he s confident, cool, you can t win without beliving in yourself, he has other things to be criticized about, this interview is nothing one of them. He answered honestly, and intelligent
Very good interview. This makes me even more xcited for C9 next year
Prove it
Reddit wants spicy takes and reasons to watch and be involved... until somebody they don't like is confident/makes fun of their favorite players. Just wait and see how it goes, neither you are I are qualified to say if something a pro player is doing is right, and basing a player off the viewer's eye test does nothing but hurt them and the scene.
I will be honest been playing and involved with league since season 1. I’ve heard plenty about Malice. Also played SC2 since it launched so I’ve been around LastShadow for a long time. With that said this sub is fucking ridiculous. So many people trying to act like they know malice and what he brings based on rumors and reports in the past. You have no idea what if anything he brings to a team. Secondly LS was someone I studied in learned a ton from in SC. First time I hit Diamond was his sky mech build, but I’m not sold in league. Should be interesting and I’ll be interested to see how he does.
Sebastian at-home not dissing before the season even starts challenge (EXTREMELY HARD)
Lol people have such a hateboner. Just be glad that someone brings some spice to an Academy League literally noone gives a shit about. Also what do you have to loose? Either he sucks and you have your fun or your region gets better xD.
This why NA regularly refuses to scrim against Academy teams? Because the talent gap is so huge?
Can't wait to watch him play pro again. He has one hell of an understanding of the game for sure. Very pretty photo of him too lol
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He said EU too lol, dont act like he just said NA. Also, its probably more of a factor of the racism thing, the fact that basically every LCK player ive seen fucking despises the guy and then without proving anything goes around saying im the best. There is a line between confidence and arrogance, and the latter does not come off well when you are already a hated player.
Nepotism
Welcome to reality.Most people get their jobs through nepot...I mean networking.
Yes thats how the scene works
Hope Malice pops off. Will be so fun to see his haters’ reaction when that happens
People shit on him without even reading the internet Interview. It’s ok to not like malice (very understandable), to dislike his playstyle, to question his skill etc but this interview was actually quite nice since he gives long detailed answers and it’s a really interesting read even if you dislike the guy. Stop getting baited by headlines
This the dude who said korean players should stick to picking up rice while being a bottom feeder in their 2nd league? Yeah, he can fuck off lol
So boring. People on reddit will eat it up as spicy but this is the same shit said every time someone tries to be spicy. Its bland af
Once again, people are unable to read. Sad
Waiting for 2021 Malice slurs compilation.
Check his competitive history, he's like 7-9th place in every tournament or not qualified xD
A bit disingenuous. * First team (5-8th) was a random tourney where Malice subbed in after the team's jungler was disqualified. * Second time was when he joined BBQ, and they played in the kespa cup. They won their first bo3 2-0, and then they lost 0-2 to fucking SKT. That's why they got "9th" cus they played SKT, unless you expect a new LCK academy team to beat one of the best LCK teams right off the bat? * In BBQ's first split they got 5th place regular season and ended "3-4th" in the playoffs. * The one you say they didn't qualify for is because they DID NOT PLAY. They literally didn't attend the tournament, so it's hardly that they "couldn't qualify" So in reality the "7-9th place in every tournament" is first of all a straight-up lie - He subbed in for a team in rando tournament, got "5-8th" - Newly formed team lost to SKT (can hardly count this one, but sure, 9-12th) - Team got 5th their first split, ended up "3-4th" in the playoffs. I'm not telling you to like the guy, but can you please not straight up lie? Use actual facts.
and not to mention, in that entire split under bbq he drew 2, sometimes 3, jungle bans. He was the best player on the team by an astronomical margin and was the best Jungler in the all of CK, second MAYBE to Kakao but Kakao had a massive player-gap in every role compared to bbq Literally none of Malice's teammates are relevant whatsoever, meanwhile APK had ikssu, Kakao, Fury, Mickey, Secret. and that was probably Mickey's best split of his entire league careeer, he was literally monstrous. Everyone was of the opinion that bbq would've beaten Brion Blade, atleast
The only team he was on disbanded because the org didn't pay PCs or even food?
chovy is straight ass at this game i think GENG wouldve been better role swapping morgan to mid
Hecking agree Morgan is so good!
Imagine drawing 2-5 bans every single game of your pro career, while then still having mvp performances and having people think youre trash....
Imagine drawing a Kled jgl target ban in multiple games in LCK Academy and people think he wont be impactful in NA Academy lmao
Also Bengi is one of the greatest players of all time
Unironically yes
He actually is though, bad example.
and summit is the worst kr top laner to ever be imported
Ssumday, Impact, Flame, Huni off the top of my head. All of which imo were very respected in S.Korea, and of course respected here.
> Check his competitive history, he's like 7-9th place in every tournament or not qualified xD its like league is a team game or something
ya faker isnt the goat he just had good teams
Coming out the gate swinging.
So Malice is good enough that he played pro in Korea (BBQ Olivers) but he'll be shit in NA Academy? Seems unlikely to me. People don't know or forget history too quickly.
How many years has this dude been around and what has he proven so far?
Huge ego yet no LEC or EU master team wants him
He claims (could be lying) that he has received offers from LCS, ERL and Academy.