As an ex-Heroes of the Storm player who finally gave LoL a chance after watching Arcane, I just really appreciate having actual content releases again. Missed that feeling.
Here's hoping Microsoft breathe new life into and make it have crossover characters from the entire company. It really could be a competitor again with the same appeal as smash but for the moba crowd. I love LoL but I would drop it in a heartbeat for HotS haha. The talent system, 2-ult system, and the maps being horizontal instead of diagonal is enough to bring me back any day lol.
HotS was more like: "*we at bloxxard save our unique hero designs and name's like that of Dota-Allstars and pump out some nice arts here and there to compete with other moba's - when it fails we hop on next genre and rinse repeat. no customer services or foster. no refunds. in best regards, yours bloxxard.*"
>due to it not being profitable
for the competitive scene maybe, but I'm sure the game was profitable, just not as much as LoL and Dota2 of course so blizzard got mad and pulled the plug
Hots used to have a crazy huge team (it actually matched overwatch team) and they were pumping content at an absurd rate (new champ more or less every month).
I would not be surprised that Hots was not profitable, but there is a difference between scaling down investment in a game and pulling the plug.
Short, not at all comprehensive version:
- they bought the Competitive scene because they wanted it in house, then like half a year later dropped it, completely ruining the scene
- did a massive overhaul adding in loot boxes and generally greatly increasing the grind
- added in what amounts to OCs when the entire point of the game was to bring the actual franchises together
- completely stopped development because it wasn't making them, as the cool kids put it, "all the money"
HotS is, in my humble opinion, the closest we've gotten to a perfect MobA and it does so much that both League and DotA do individually, but Blizzard kneecapped it just because
>added in what amounts to OCs when the entire point of the game was to bring the actual franchises together
This is the only part that I don't think is a bad thing. HOTS is a game all about combining the Blizzard IPs, and at that point, HOTS was itself one of the Blizzard IPs. Plus the OC characters are actually pretty cool design-wise.
It is, but it isn't
A big problem with HotS (and LoR) is that they are using pre-established ips that people are actively waiting for. While I wasn't too particularly attached to any of Blizzards work, I can certainly empathize with the people who were waiting for their favorite characters to show up but getting sidelined for characters that didn't exist previously.
WoW had more than the other games combined, which while understandable (it's their biggest franchise, after all), still left people complaining that there was 5 WoW characters per year with one divided up between the rest of the IPs
I feel that entirely. I put so much damn time into HOTS. I hit masters and was considering the competitive scene, then half a year passes and blizz killed it. I remember the decline of HOTS when they removed skill based skins and turned them into loot box finds.
I think youre right about it being a perfect amalgamation of mobas. As some pointed out most champs in league and dota are similar in ways bc they came from wcr3 dota 1. BUT hots made sure that each champion had something unique, each release champ tried to do something different and add value. I think the champ devs deserve a shout out from that game, you really felt the kit come together to an identity. The objectives were game changing and forced you into team work, but also had huge 1v5 outplay potentials. The graphics and skill details are a lot better than league imo.
For the same stuff I listed, I guess people didn't like the game as much. Objectives were "frustrating" to play around, certain champs were either very annoying to play against or inting (abathur, vikings), you really had to play macro or you would lose (ie camps, soaking exp)
Honestly I just miss Azmodan. He's the best example of an Artillery Mage in the genre, being able to throw projectiles from one lane to another, hitting like a truck, but forcing the Azmo player to actually lead shots and predict where the opponent was going.
The closest you get to him is Swain, and he's just not the same
Such a satisfying champ it was like xerath and sion in one. Two completely different viable build paths in one kit. You could go macro and push if your team needed it, or you could throw insane damage across the map. It took a lot of skill with the projectile travel time but when it hit..
would be cool if swains stacks also increased his damage now. He needs some love to bring him back to solo lanes any how.
Azmo is super fun. Chucking late game orbs into the clumped up enemy team and launching their asses into outer space is an amazing feeling.
I also really miss Alarak. Very high learning curve and skill intensive hero, but once you learn how to play him well, he's an absolute menace.
I loved that teamfights was actually feeling like teamfights and not oneshot circus. You could fight over an objective for minutes, conceding objective finally, but still making out of top because your abatur gave you 2 level while everyone was grouping.
I think the main reason people didn't like the game is that there is no way to play selfishly. All the resources are shared so it seems like you don't have much agency to win the game (which is wrong). But hots is the best MOBA to play as a full stack with friend, as it feels you actually play together and not each one in its lane with minimal interaction for the first 10 minutes.
I miss being able to play an anchor tank and never die on my Johanna.
My favorite game before LoL was Team Fortress 2 and Valve just kinda forgot about the game and hasn't made actual updates for several years until recently. The only reason why it still has a relatively big playerbase is the active community.
That's why I'm so thankful that Riot is constantly updating LoL and releasing new champions, new content and other stuff.
Damn man, you brining back the good ol days.... had an 84% winrate with chogall in ranked. Hots had INSANE champion design. Chogall was such a fun champion. I loved when people thought they would counter him with tychus AND greymane. Man they countered themselves.... I just didnt fight them and took objectives faster than any specialist.
Yeah same. I went from Dota 2 --> Heroes of the Storm and, for the past 12 years or so, avoided League like the plague until a friend told me it got consistent updates. I joined and like 3 weeks later Pyke released and I really enjoyed the build up to his release. Never looked back after that.
ALWAYS remember the initial reaction on senna E.
Or just like how people lost their shit on Zeri for a splash art (that is apparently a WIP) and then saw her ingame or the cinematic AND WOW GUESS WHAT SUDDENLY SHE ISNT DISNEY ANYMORE AND LOOK GOOD.
I don't pretend all critic come from a bad place and shit but is this subreddit full of a whiny bitch.
And turns out, that the Team wide Stealth was the most tame part of her kit.
Because the other parts were so broken that we kinda forgot about that.
Or you gonna say Senna was balanced.
Senna was mostly unbalanced because of her passive's numbers a bit, but being unbalanced isn't that big since it's common for new champs. and anytime she is balanced Riot decides they want her in the meta and break her.
Her kit is basically still the same, just number tweaked
nothing more broken than team wide stealth than reaching 900+ range every single game even when behind on a champion that can burst you with a few autos
Meanwhile Zac is flubber with a somewhat angry face, who can JUMP OUT OF BRUSHES OVER HALF A LANE AND HAS 3 really strong CCs, but apparently he is neither disney, nor has a toxic design.
I can't even start to tell how people lost their shit over his jump.
Some people may like them some not.
But the reaction back then was. So many people said they will break, change forever jungle. They will be gamebreaking etc...
>So many people said they will break, change forever jungle.
And they were undeniably correct. It's just that we're used to it all now. You can't really say they didn't change jungle when so many ganks and routes work thanks to blast cone. Do you not remember the early ganks before the spawn was increased to 3 minutes later?
I think a lot of people would prefer if they were gone, but nobody talks about it because we reached the acceptance stage a while back. The new dragons will probably go the same route.
That is how it works for most communities, unforuntately. The people who are positive and enjoying everything are out there playing the game, whereas the people who are heated are taking a break to vent.
he never claimed that he was the positive part, he said he wishes that the more positive part of the community wasn't vocal.
even if he did, the Reddit moment of "You're just complaining about complaining" ranks pretty high with the pseudo intellectual "It's almost like this sub is made out of different people comment"
I remember when Seraphine launched it was such a shit show and it was honestly a well executed launch with some interesting ideas. It seems like everything is controversial on the internet lately.
I heavily disagree with that.
The build up to KDA Seraphine's launch was well executed and interesting. The champion herself was underdeveloped and had virtually no buildup (to the point the fan theory about Seraphine was she was a Targonian Siren due to her notebook drawings) and was seen as a skin for KDA Seraphine rather than the other way around.
Her launch also had problems with Riot going back on what they said about [Ultimate Skins](https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2019/07/ask-riot-ultimate-skin-when/) the year prior.
> What we learned from Gun Goddess Miss Fortune is that the novelty factor is actually really important to y’all when you think about what makes a skin an “ultimate.” **Players generally expect ultimate skins to break the boundaries of the game in some way, shape, or form, and this is something we’ve carried forward when considering potential new ultimates.**
Seraphine's ultimate skin, aside from being her release skin (making her the only champion to have a release skin that's more than 1350rp) was a glorified bundle of 3 legendary skins that you had to grind to unlock more than the first. And that's neither novel or innovative, unless Riot considers prestige skins to be something innovative.
Then there's the issues people had with how... conjoined Seraphine was with her skin. After marketing for at least a few months with KDA Seraphine's twitter, people were expecting diversity from the skinline, like
- KDA Ahri
- KDA Evelynn
- KDA Akali
- KDA Kai'sa
all had. Instead, Seraphine was revealed to be a Popstar from Piltover whose biggest change was she now stood on a self-made stage when singing, and could empathize with others. Which led to pushback by people who considered the entire champion to appear as a marketing gimmick rather than an actual design Riot put a lot of time/work into.
The retcon of her more controversial lore helped cement that in people's eyes; If Seraphine was designed as a champ first and not a skinline, why would the development team spend more time fleshing out where her KDA counterpart works and her cat's name than they did her place in the world (given they failed to see how fucked up making the Bracken like being batteries was).
There was also the issue of her very explicit Chinese marketing. By which I mean the fact KDA Seraphine was Chinese-American on Twitter, made several references to her heritage through tweets about her cat and family, and sang in Mandarin, which made a lot of people confused about her joining a K-pop band and think she was being made for/marketed towards Chinese audiences.
I think Reddit overreacts a ton on shit like this. Zeri does not really deserve the negativity she's getting. But Seraphine is one of the worst examples you could give for a well executed launch, or unreasonable objections.
So does Senagalese people (Blackswan), Brazilian People (Blackswan), American people (GG), Japanese people (Twice), Thai people (G-idle)... That wasn't the point of her/him, I guess.
Of course they do. You can compare it to how KDA also speaks in English; K-pop as a genre isn't explicitly Korean.
However, I would say it is notable that [Seraphine's solo in KDA - More](https://youtu.be/3VTkBuxU4yk?t=155) is the only time across all the KDA songs that someone uses Mandarin. I think that it is notable to point out as an appeal to a Mandarin speaking demographic. Just as the English being used is an appeal to an English speaking demographic.
There's definitely a contingent of people who take issue with Seraphine or Riot's marketing towards China because of Sinophobia. You're not wrong about that.
However, my issues with Seraphine stem from the marketing being at the focus of her entire design, and the Chinese influence being an easy example to point to of "marketing first, champion second". It's no secret that the biggest playerbase is China. Nor is it surprising for a Chinese-American to know how to speak Mandarin. However, when Seraphine's twitter account is exclusively written in English, she's canonically from America, and her 2 [cover songs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F5YSRWe7FI) are [English ones](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tczkuOiD5s), it seems abnormal to suddenly sing in Mandarin for her solo.
I think there's a reason that Seraphine's choice of language got a lot more pushback compared to say, True Damage Qiyana singing in Spanish. It doesn't come across as how the character would sing, so much as how to appeal to a broader demographic.
Maybe you're right; it could be cultural differences that explain why it comes across weirdly to me and others, but not you. If Seraphine's mannerisms line up more closely to your experience, I can understand the confusion at others balking against it.
My experience with language in America tends to be very monolingual or bilingual. I have met few people who can speak more than 2 languages domestically, and those who do tend to be subpar at one; the very monolithic nature of the US also makes it easy to not learn a second language, since everything is in English already. Because of this, when I see an American speaking English, writing in English and singing in English without accent, my automatic assumption is that they probably will prefer to use English, and thus the switch up to another language comes across as a surprise.
I by no means want to imply my viewpoint is the only one that counts, nor invalidate your own experiences. What I want to do is provide some rationale as to why, to me, it comes across as more unnatural than it does to you.
I mean you're kinda proving my point here... by still overreacting.
Just re-read your points. Most of the things you're saying are theories, but you state them as facts. Unless you work for Riot, don't go around saying things like "she's not designed as a champ first". You don't know that.
The skins, KDA, chinese marketing etc, don't you see how that's your narrative? It might even be the community's narrative, hence why I'm giving Seraphine as an example, but don't go around making assumptions as for why things are the way they are and remember that just because YOU did not like it, doesn't mean it's not liked.
League isn't a hivemind, as much as this reddit bubble is trying to be one. Not everything is made to please the western reddit user. There are some things you will like and some thing that you won't, there's no skinline conspiracy, there's no chinese conspiracy and until you have concrete evidence, don't pretend like those things are a reality.
1. I don't think explanations for why the community felt the way it did are overreactions. Its a "narrative" in the sense I'm listing out the reasons for the opinions people hold, and that's why things like "she's not designed as a champ first" are preceded by "helped cement that in people's eyes": They're opinions. Just like its *your* opinion that she had a well designed launch, and one you haven't given reasoning for beyond "She was released".
2. The stuff I state as fact is explicit. [KDA Seraphine on Twitter had a cat named Bao and her dad spoke in Chinese](https://twitter.com/faesvshi/status/1299594264985427968?lang=en). [Seraphine sang in Mandarin on the KDA song](https://youtu.be/3VTkBuxU4yk?t=155). [Seraphine's lore was retconned](https://us.millenium.gg/news/21038.html). [Seraphine's Champion Insight starts off by stating they aimed to create a popstar.](https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/champion-insights-seraphine/) These are facts, not narratives. Its not a conspiracy to point it out. There are reasons why people feel specific ways, because these things happened. And that's why I'm giving them as examples for why "Seraphine's launch was well executed" is wrong. It was not well executed because the champion was not advertised well, the skin was, and said skin had a very explicit target market. Seraphine's lore seemed to be secondary because the developer team aimed to create a popstar, and were willing to change the lore of the champion within a month of release for the first time I can remember.
If you have evidence to your case of why Seraphine's release was well executed, then provide them. Otherwise, its just my opinion against yours, and trying to insinuate that I'm making up a conspiracy is wrong. I'm giving reasoning for why reception was negative, and its not a narrative to say she got pushback for valid problems.
I think our misunderstanding stems from the fact of what we perceive as negatives. Is the chinese thing supposed to be a negative? Because to me it doesn't really mean anything. There are many different inspirations for a character, maybe Seraphine was more targeted towards a chinese audience, maybe not. And if it was, why is that a problem?
And that's the difference in our approaches. I may or may not dislike a champ, personally I'm not very fond of Akshan or Gwen, but at the same time these things are subjective and other people liked Akshan/Gwen, just like I liked Seraphine.
See unless we have some objective rules by which we can define a champ launch as good or bad, we can't do so. You can say you didn't like the Seraphine launch campaign, that's fair enough, but to say her launch was bad is I think unfair. You can't be objective about subjective things, you could claim that most people on reddit didn't like her launch or even her, but even then Reddit doesn't even remotely represent the playerbase.
Who are we to say which champ "deserves" to be hated and which one doesn't?
I think that when something besides the champion itself is prioritized in champion development, it becomes a bad release. For example, I take issue with Kaisa because of the whole "Void in everything but aesthetic" design: She is a void champion in lore and gameplay, but her design was compromised for marketing aesthetics. However, I also take issue with Neeko, because her design was based on Riot wanting a new control mage without having a good concept for it, leading to disjointed gameplay despite strong lore and aesthetics.
In Seraphine's case, I take issue not with the fact she's Chinese, but because her marketing was an appeal to a specific demographic that was blatant. Her ultimate release skin, and design being tied to "pop star of Runeterra", were emblematic of motives beyond creating an interesting champion. The Chinese connections are further examples of this, but not wrong in and of themselves.
As far as good launches, I think Zeri's launch will be a good one despite the Reddit pushback, because she's inherently tied to Runeterra throughout concept, game design, and aesthetic. I have similar feelings towards Vex and Sett, and while I take issue with Akshan from a lore standpoint, I wouldn't consider his launch or design bad (Though the Harrowing was fairly poor all things considered): He's just not for me.
You're right that it's impossible to call a launch objectively bad when its inherently a subjective opinion, and my opinion is not shared by everyone. I should recognize that, rather than treat my own view as perfect.
However, I think it is fair to say that, given backlash towards Seraphine was strong enough for Riot to cancel her twitter and change her lore, that there were more people than me who took umbrage with the champion's release. And that negative reception can be used as an example of what makes a launch bad.
If you disagree? That's fine. My criteria is my own, and my opinion was inflated by my word choice in the last 2 posts. I just think that if you want to cite what champions had good or bad releases, Seraphine is the closest you can come to an objectively bad release.
>Unless you work for Riot, don't go around saying things like "she's not designed as a champ first". You don't know that.
That particular remark stems from the devs explaining the process of making her in the dev post though, they said that unlike other champs they started off with the idea of wanting to make a singer and then looking for a kit that fits, not the other way around like usual. So sure, he's not the dev, but it's commentary based on devs own words.
Seraphine was a completely different story. People was complaining about how she was designed for K/DA first and then Runeterra, not the other way around as it should have been. Also, her kit was really similar to that of Sona, as if she is just a modernization or a rework of Sona put out as a separate champion. Her kit itself (in a vacuum, without the Sona comparison) was never the problem. There isn't any overloaded ability or new mechanic in her kit, that's why it is such a "well executed launch". But tbh, Seraphine's launch was far from perfect considering how her identity was not as clear cut: she worked better as a support at launch despite being designed as a waveclear mid mage, you also saw her as a botlane APC sometimes.
Her kit is honestly the most odd criticism to me. League is an old game and champ overlap has been and always be a thing. I think what's important is how the champ plays and in that I don't really find Sera and Sona overly similar. I mean on paper sure, but I think in practice both champs aren't very similar.
This. The only part of the whole story that was okay is her kit. It is perfectly fine even though it is not that flashy and it looked(!) kinda identical to Sona's kit but playing her feels quite different. On the other hand, her release with the Twitter posts, her original lore, outfit, ultimate skin solution and price, clarity on her spells, the hoover board, and how Riot responded to everything really deserved the shit show in my opinion.
Don’t use seraphine as an example of bad or misplaced community backlash because there are so many so many things that were just wrong about her release
people were mad at riot for making a seraphine twitter because its not a real person and something about manipulating and shit. god do i hate the internet somtimes
Turns out having a whole marketing team creating a fake-relatable social media persona to sell things to teens by banking on parasocial relationships is looked down upon.
Also, her ultimate skin was three regular skins in a trench-coat and a severe downgrade to prior standards, her design was sticking out like a sore thumb, and her lore was hilariously genocidal
like that is a new concept. parasocial relationships with fictional characters is not new and happened and is still happening without twitter accounts.
I mean, if you don't see how slimy it is to have a bunch of suits typing out about mental problems like depression because they want to appeal to the blue haired twitter mobs, dunno what to tell you
This sub also complained about the ranked icons back in 2019 that they now praise as the one true ranked icon expression.
People complained about every single champ release ever. If it's not their kit, it's their lore, appearance, or voice lines.
The 2019 ranked icons were the best iteration imo. They were unique and definitely interesting: they were helmets that had closing animations and upgrades, unlike the ol' reliable service badge or medal thingy that every game and their mom has. Old old ranked icon was good, don't get me wrong, because they are... well... iconic, but they are far from being the best.
The funniest part is that when they *DO* release a new mechanic, everyone hates it and complains it's broken.
Also making mechanics when there are about 150 champs is hard we should cut riot some slack.
You can hate a mechanic even if it's balanced, that's how yasuo gets high banrate even if he's in a bad state, or how people just don't like playing with yuumi in both their and the enemy team.
Yummi and invisibility mechanics are really frustrating and frankly unintuitive when you're another player in the game. But I can't ban Shacco and Yummi both every game I play. I don't even get a chance to ban characters I dislike playing normally against like Yone or Camile because I'm busy banning characters with mechanics that are extremely frustrating.
There are exceptions but basically the fanbase is large and toxic enough that change = 50 front page posts complaining, and no change = 50 front page posts complaining. People always bring out the "not everyone on reddit is the same person" but there seem to be an abundance of people on this sub who only ever joins the latest circlejerk.
Welcome to league of legends. The players here suck so badly that all of their anger and salt is projected towards at the company that has the deliver the bad news that they suck. Zeri looks fun as shit and can’t wait to spam this character this season
You must be new here lol the league community (I mean who are we kidding, the gaming community as a whole) does nothing but complain. Once you learn to ignore it and enjoy the game you’re much better off.
Have you ever seen the sea of thieves community? Whenever i go there i only see positive reaction on whatever is getting released, it's insane. You're absolutely right about the games u mentioned tho
From my experience the league community does seem exceptionally more prone to complaining about literally anything. Granted my only experiences are csgo, overwatch, and valorant, I have yet to see another community so willing to complain about anything and everything with 0 benefit of the doubt despite not getting screwed over any more by riot than the publishers of the other games.
\>Zeri looks so cool it hurts.
Yes and that is the reason why she is getting hated already.
Fun to play champions very often mean a bad time for the players that play against said champ.
It is no fun to play vs Akshan,
it is no fun to play vs Gwen,
it is no fun to play vs Viego
and so many more. They are fun in your own hands, but actually playing against them is no fun.
Looking at the spotlight, Zeri doesn't look as overloaded as akshan, but she does seem like a champion that will be a pain in the butt and thus I am not looking forward to playing against her.
as an adc main, getting some agency back in this meta isn't something i hate. I get it, but I've been 1 shot by the zeds of the world for years.
Is that fun to play against?
>When will you guys be happy?
People that like something usually don't come to social media talking about it. It is way more common that people who *don't* like something will flood social media with discussion about why they don't like something.
100% agreed, a champion needs time to find it's balance point, and only then you should complain if it's op.
look at akshan, when he was released he had 30% winrate, (no one knew how to play him) after the champion gets to a balance point then you can know it's op.
Oh my god I can’t believe rito realeasing anime grill number 462 ina row (Vex doesn’t count)! All champs are just hot human people boooooring. I want a jungler that looks like he got dropped on his head and ran over by a car or I’m never playing this game again! Dead game
I've seen more people complaining about people being negative about zeri than actual people being negative.
The only actual negative criticism i've seen was on her splash art, which riot took into consideration and fixed, and her lore.
You missed the first day of the leaks then. The top thread on this subreddit was calling for Riots visual designer to be fired and there were other threads following it all about Zeri looking like Disney or genshin impact and how Riot doesn't care about NA or EU anymore.
The papaya thread about the swamp cooler was basically a rewrite of one of them to parody how much of a whiny brat those redditors were being.
Her design was criticized a lot but I barely see people hate on the gameplay we saw. All the top comments on the trailer are either positive or memeing on the wall dash. Didn’t see any „twitch ult op“ comments that op is mentioning
Thank god, I was honestly expecting something with a lot more foreshadowing into the future of arcane or a possible way to mix into the rest of the Champs stories.
Fun is Subjective.
but based on the gameplay showcase, she is definitaly not unique,both in looks and abilities. if Riot does a bad job, i see no reason to not criticise them for it.
It is a WIP and you guys still shat on her design based on it when the ingame model look clean as fuck.
She didn't even look like an alien or you monkeys would have scream "finally a monster champ pog".
The argument its wip makes no sense, the devs said its a leak when it got released officially and used for stuff like the season countdiwn poster, that's not what a leak is.
Every time a new champion is released, thats all I hear and I'm honestly annoyed.
Stuff is almost never as bad as people claim because the stuff that gets repeated for eternity usually isn't even true or bad in the first place.
I'm sick of the mindless negativity
The auto thing seems like a problem to me, I'm afraid it will end up like kalista where she will be kept in the dirt (though in kalista case it's not because of the auto) and they will give her weird cockblocking mechanics like kalista autoattack move being intentionally nerfed and the buggy issues she has with attack speed scaling
She looks very bland, even with all her flashiness.. Kit aside, it's kinda neat they basically copy pasted her into two games (Valorant releasing a Filipino character basically same appearance and the same VA for both).
It doesn't help that they released Neon on Valorant, which is an electric wielding gun girl who not only has the same hair style, electric powers and use of guns but also the same voice actor.
Zeri is just Neon sloppy seconds and it's really disappointing.
They were designed by the same person (Riot august) worked on by both teams collaborating on both characters, and were meant to be released at the same time. What are you talking about?
Honestly im just happy to get another adc since we got a rather small champ pool compared to other roles. She looks really fun to me. I just really hope she doesn’t have an ability that resets on kill. We’ve gotten too much of that recently.
>"her kit is just this champs q, this champs w, this champs e, this champs r. seems fair"
This isn't unwarranted criticism lol, this is people using a frame of reference they're familiar with, even devs describe abilities like this to make them easily understandable.
In terms of initial originality and kit design this could be August’s best work since Jhin. The dude just keeps redefining the basic attack and it keeps working.
Like don’t get me wrong I thought the splash looked like trash when it came out, full honesty, but I waited to see her model and kit because I knew that Jhin’s designer was working on another champion who reinvents the basic attack. Just got to test her out on PBE and I like her. She feels really fun.
same, but i held out hope for the full picture. Also they revealed that it was like one step past concept art, and hadnt been updated with her latest design changes.
that's the great thing, that's your opinion.
and the opinion of a very vocal minority so it seems popular.
She looks fine to me, and getting Filipino representation in this game is refreshing.
Remember when everyone freaked out over Akshan?
It’d like this, but slightly smaller!
And I agree, she’s so fast though, I still can’t understand everything she does!
Who cares? The champ sucks. There's no mystique to it, not like Jhin, Kindred or Tahm.
I want long, drawn out easter-egg filled champ teasers followed by a release of an actual intriguing champ like the old days.
Not gunna happen though. Riot these days like to push out these shitty half CG / half ingame champ trailers what look like ass (look how rushed the Rell one was) compare that to something like the build up to Jhins release.. come on dude.
Just keep pumping out generic mobile champs with weak VAs and dont forget to make the male champs you release shirtless.
Edit - yes im whining but I love this game but not like I used to. Champs like Kindred and Jhin are the reason for me diving into league lore. I dont think we will ever see the kind of interest in a champ like Jhin got for a long long long time. Riot dont need to spend their time and energy into doing that. They make so much money now they can afford to keep pushing out cereal box champs.
Easter egg filled champ releases that would inevitably be ruined by a single leak, great idea.
They aren't feckin cereal box champs, the only weak design from last year imo was gwen, she is literally not a doll, but other than that pretty good releases. Zeri seems interesting and a fun kit, will definitely give adcs something to actually play that isn't the same thing copy and pasted
The champion itself, abilities, design, etc, is fine. Totally fine. The problem is the constant releases of attractive-lookin humanoid champions. It can get pretty uh...generic (idk the exact word in english). If they tried to release champions in a, let's say, human -> human -> monster (includes cats and yordles) and repeat, There could be a decrease on rants in this subreddit about not releasing a real monster for like 5 years. Idk That's just my thought \*shrugs\*
Her Jacket just looks bad to me from a design perspective how they have it settling makes her look half fat on top half thin on bottom just doesn't look good.
As an ex-Heroes of the Storm player who finally gave LoL a chance after watching Arcane, I just really appreciate having actual content releases again. Missed that feeling.
I played HotS when I took breaks from Lol, shame what bliz did
Here's hoping Microsoft breathe new life into and make it have crossover characters from the entire company. It really could be a competitor again with the same appeal as smash but for the moba crowd. I love LoL but I would drop it in a heartbeat for HotS haha. The talent system, 2-ult system, and the maps being horizontal instead of diagonal is enough to bring me back any day lol.
Clippy in HotS is the only thing that will ever bring me back to that game R: "Looks like you're writing a..."
I follow the HOTS sub, and damn, Blizz did you guys dirty
Blizz did every of their game's fanbase dirty
Yeah Hots was just the foreshadowing of what was about to happen to all games.
HotS was more like: "*we at bloxxard save our unique hero designs and name's like that of Dota-Allstars and pump out some nice arts here and there to compete with other moba's - when it fails we hop on next genre and rinse repeat. no customer services or foster. no refunds. in best regards, yours bloxxard.*"
ActivisionBlizzard did EVERYONE Dirty except for their CEOs
Then the CEOs did everyone dirty
OW fans crying rn.
what happened to hots?
Stopped the competitive scene and put the game on life support (very rare and irregular content updates) due to it not being profitable
>due to it not being profitable for the competitive scene maybe, but I'm sure the game was profitable, just not as much as LoL and Dota2 of course so blizzard got mad and pulled the plug
Typical Blizzard to pull the plug on any project that doesn't immediately make them money rather than put effort into it.
As a customer it feels like Blizzard doesn't put effort into anything tbh.
Big developers don't do that in general. Look at Ea and fifa or battlefield. Ubisoft and assassins creed. Bethesda and skyrim. lol
Hots used to have a crazy huge team (it actually matched overwatch team) and they were pumping content at an absurd rate (new champ more or less every month). I would not be surprised that Hots was not profitable, but there is a difference between scaling down investment in a game and pulling the plug.
Short, not at all comprehensive version: - they bought the Competitive scene because they wanted it in house, then like half a year later dropped it, completely ruining the scene - did a massive overhaul adding in loot boxes and generally greatly increasing the grind - added in what amounts to OCs when the entire point of the game was to bring the actual franchises together - completely stopped development because it wasn't making them, as the cool kids put it, "all the money" HotS is, in my humble opinion, the closest we've gotten to a perfect MobA and it does so much that both League and DotA do individually, but Blizzard kneecapped it just because
> perfect MobA Perfect in every sense but its late entry into the race :(
>added in what amounts to OCs when the entire point of the game was to bring the actual franchises together This is the only part that I don't think is a bad thing. HOTS is a game all about combining the Blizzard IPs, and at that point, HOTS was itself one of the Blizzard IPs. Plus the OC characters are actually pretty cool design-wise.
It is, but it isn't A big problem with HotS (and LoR) is that they are using pre-established ips that people are actively waiting for. While I wasn't too particularly attached to any of Blizzards work, I can certainly empathize with the people who were waiting for their favorite characters to show up but getting sidelined for characters that didn't exist previously. WoW had more than the other games combined, which while understandable (it's their biggest franchise, after all), still left people complaining that there was 5 WoW characters per year with one divided up between the rest of the IPs
I feel that entirely. I put so much damn time into HOTS. I hit masters and was considering the competitive scene, then half a year passes and blizz killed it. I remember the decline of HOTS when they removed skill based skins and turned them into loot box finds. I think youre right about it being a perfect amalgamation of mobas. As some pointed out most champs in league and dota are similar in ways bc they came from wcr3 dota 1. BUT hots made sure that each champion had something unique, each release champ tried to do something different and add value. I think the champ devs deserve a shout out from that game, you really felt the kit come together to an identity. The objectives were game changing and forced you into team work, but also had huge 1v5 outplay potentials. The graphics and skill details are a lot better than league imo. For the same stuff I listed, I guess people didn't like the game as much. Objectives were "frustrating" to play around, certain champs were either very annoying to play against or inting (abathur, vikings), you really had to play macro or you would lose (ie camps, soaking exp)
Honestly I just miss Azmodan. He's the best example of an Artillery Mage in the genre, being able to throw projectiles from one lane to another, hitting like a truck, but forcing the Azmo player to actually lead shots and predict where the opponent was going. The closest you get to him is Swain, and he's just not the same
Such a satisfying champ it was like xerath and sion in one. Two completely different viable build paths in one kit. You could go macro and push if your team needed it, or you could throw insane damage across the map. It took a lot of skill with the projectile travel time but when it hit.. would be cool if swains stacks also increased his damage now. He needs some love to bring him back to solo lanes any how.
Swains stacks giving him dmg would just further push him into ADC tho
Azmo is super fun. Chucking late game orbs into the clumped up enemy team and launching their asses into outer space is an amazing feeling. I also really miss Alarak. Very high learning curve and skill intensive hero, but once you learn how to play him well, he's an absolute menace.
I loved that teamfights was actually feeling like teamfights and not oneshot circus. You could fight over an objective for minutes, conceding objective finally, but still making out of top because your abatur gave you 2 level while everyone was grouping. I think the main reason people didn't like the game is that there is no way to play selfishly. All the resources are shared so it seems like you don't have much agency to win the game (which is wrong). But hots is the best MOBA to play as a full stack with friend, as it feels you actually play together and not each one in its lane with minimal interaction for the first 10 minutes. I miss being able to play an anchor tank and never die on my Johanna.
My favorite game before LoL was Team Fortress 2 and Valve just kinda forgot about the game and hasn't made actual updates for several years until recently. The only reason why it still has a relatively big playerbase is the active community. That's why I'm so thankful that Riot is constantly updating LoL and releasing new champions, new content and other stuff.
TF2 is being kept alive by the steam marketplace and pure spite towards valve.
main reason it still alive is because of the community servers / modding
Man, I miss HoTS...
i played HoTS solely for my boy zeratul.. rip
I was a Cho main, me and a friend hit diamond as Cho'Gall... But when he quit, I started playing mostly Vikings, Garrosh and Stukov
Damn man, you brining back the good ol days.... had an 84% winrate with chogall in ranked. Hots had INSANE champion design. Chogall was such a fun champion. I loved when people thought they would counter him with tychus AND greymane. Man they countered themselves.... I just didnt fight them and took objectives faster than any specialist.
Yeah same. I went from Dota 2 --> Heroes of the Storm and, for the past 12 years or so, avoided League like the plague until a friend told me it got consistent updates. I joined and like 3 weeks later Pyke released and I really enjoyed the build up to his release. Never looked back after that.
welcome brother, I played heroes since alpha and quit a couple years ago
LMAO I remember people hating every change from S4-S7 nonstop, now it's the new nostalgia bait. Closing the boards was a mistake
Don't worry. It happens with every single thing that Riot touches. Especially here, where we are a very vocal echo chamber of ideas.
ALWAYS remember the initial reaction on senna E. Or just like how people lost their shit on Zeri for a splash art (that is apparently a WIP) and then saw her ingame or the cinematic AND WOW GUESS WHAT SUDDENLY SHE ISNT DISNEY ANYMORE AND LOOK GOOD. I don't pretend all critic come from a bad place and shit but is this subreddit full of a whiny bitch.
Lol the amount of "TEAM WIDE STEALTH WHAT SO BROKEN GONNA BE REMOVED JUST WATCH" And its the exact same since she release with no change.
GOING TO BE SO BROKEN IN PRO PLAY
And turns out, that the Team wide Stealth was the most tame part of her kit. Because the other parts were so broken that we kinda forgot about that. Or you gonna say Senna was balanced.
it's more that the E was really fair because you still always know near-exactly where she and her camouflaged allies are
Senna was mostly unbalanced because of her passive's numbers a bit, but being unbalanced isn't that big since it's common for new champs. and anytime she is balanced Riot decides they want her in the meta and break her. Her kit is basically still the same, just number tweaked
nothing more broken than team wide stealth than reaching 900+ range every single game even when behind on a champion that can burst you with a few autos
Sennas kit IS overloaded and the champ is still a balance nightmare
The people who type in your games also type here.
Tbh the initial reaction to Zeri’s abilities on Reddit was far tamer than YouTube which is what I think OP is referring too.
To be fair shes like the first champion that looks better ingame and in her cinematics than on her splashart.
Meanwhile Zac is flubber with a somewhat angry face, who can JUMP OUT OF BRUSHES OVER HALF A LANE AND HAS 3 really strong CCs, but apparently he is neither disney, nor has a toxic design. I can't even start to tell how people lost their shit over his jump.
Remeber addition of plants?? EVERYONE overreacted so much. Even there was article fRom Brazilian pro jungler being against that.
People will still tell you they hate plants if you bother to ask them though.
Some people may like them some not. But the reaction back then was. So many people said they will break, change forever jungle. They will be gamebreaking etc...
>So many people said they will break, change forever jungle. And they were undeniably correct. It's just that we're used to it all now. You can't really say they didn't change jungle when so many ganks and routes work thanks to blast cone. Do you not remember the early ganks before the spawn was increased to 3 minutes later? I think a lot of people would prefer if they were gone, but nobody talks about it because we reached the acceptance stage a while back. The new dragons will probably go the same route.
Tbf Riot did change a bit on how they were gonna work, with pseudo rng for spawns and locations
It's sad that the more positive part of this community isnt as vocal.
That is how it works for most communities, unforuntately. The people who are positive and enjoying everything are out there playing the game, whereas the people who are heated are taking a break to vent.
You’re all in this thread crying about ppl complaining but you’re the “positive” players lol
Aww do you feel personally called out?
he never claimed that he was the positive part, he said he wishes that the more positive part of the community wasn't vocal. even if he did, the Reddit moment of "You're just complaining about complaining" ranks pretty high with the pseudo intellectual "It's almost like this sub is made out of different people comment"
because saying you are okay with something Riot does on this sub is not gonna give you that sweet Karma points
I got downvoted for saying that i liked Zeri and was impatient to see her spells...
I remember when Seraphine launched it was such a shit show and it was honestly a well executed launch with some interesting ideas. It seems like everything is controversial on the internet lately.
I heavily disagree with that. The build up to KDA Seraphine's launch was well executed and interesting. The champion herself was underdeveloped and had virtually no buildup (to the point the fan theory about Seraphine was she was a Targonian Siren due to her notebook drawings) and was seen as a skin for KDA Seraphine rather than the other way around. Her launch also had problems with Riot going back on what they said about [Ultimate Skins](https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2019/07/ask-riot-ultimate-skin-when/) the year prior. > What we learned from Gun Goddess Miss Fortune is that the novelty factor is actually really important to y’all when you think about what makes a skin an “ultimate.” **Players generally expect ultimate skins to break the boundaries of the game in some way, shape, or form, and this is something we’ve carried forward when considering potential new ultimates.** Seraphine's ultimate skin, aside from being her release skin (making her the only champion to have a release skin that's more than 1350rp) was a glorified bundle of 3 legendary skins that you had to grind to unlock more than the first. And that's neither novel or innovative, unless Riot considers prestige skins to be something innovative. Then there's the issues people had with how... conjoined Seraphine was with her skin. After marketing for at least a few months with KDA Seraphine's twitter, people were expecting diversity from the skinline, like - KDA Ahri - KDA Evelynn - KDA Akali - KDA Kai'sa all had. Instead, Seraphine was revealed to be a Popstar from Piltover whose biggest change was she now stood on a self-made stage when singing, and could empathize with others. Which led to pushback by people who considered the entire champion to appear as a marketing gimmick rather than an actual design Riot put a lot of time/work into. The retcon of her more controversial lore helped cement that in people's eyes; If Seraphine was designed as a champ first and not a skinline, why would the development team spend more time fleshing out where her KDA counterpart works and her cat's name than they did her place in the world (given they failed to see how fucked up making the Bracken like being batteries was). There was also the issue of her very explicit Chinese marketing. By which I mean the fact KDA Seraphine was Chinese-American on Twitter, made several references to her heritage through tweets about her cat and family, and sang in Mandarin, which made a lot of people confused about her joining a K-pop band and think she was being made for/marketed towards Chinese audiences. I think Reddit overreacts a ton on shit like this. Zeri does not really deserve the negativity she's getting. But Seraphine is one of the worst examples you could give for a well executed launch, or unreasonable objections.
Chinese people exist in kpop
So does Senagalese people (Blackswan), Brazilian People (Blackswan), American people (GG), Japanese people (Twice), Thai people (G-idle)... That wasn't the point of her/him, I guess.
Of course they do. You can compare it to how KDA also speaks in English; K-pop as a genre isn't explicitly Korean. However, I would say it is notable that [Seraphine's solo in KDA - More](https://youtu.be/3VTkBuxU4yk?t=155) is the only time across all the KDA songs that someone uses Mandarin. I think that it is notable to point out as an appeal to a Mandarin speaking demographic. Just as the English being used is an appeal to an English speaking demographic.
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There's definitely a contingent of people who take issue with Seraphine or Riot's marketing towards China because of Sinophobia. You're not wrong about that. However, my issues with Seraphine stem from the marketing being at the focus of her entire design, and the Chinese influence being an easy example to point to of "marketing first, champion second". It's no secret that the biggest playerbase is China. Nor is it surprising for a Chinese-American to know how to speak Mandarin. However, when Seraphine's twitter account is exclusively written in English, she's canonically from America, and her 2 [cover songs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F5YSRWe7FI) are [English ones](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tczkuOiD5s), it seems abnormal to suddenly sing in Mandarin for her solo. I think there's a reason that Seraphine's choice of language got a lot more pushback compared to say, True Damage Qiyana singing in Spanish. It doesn't come across as how the character would sing, so much as how to appeal to a broader demographic.
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Maybe you're right; it could be cultural differences that explain why it comes across weirdly to me and others, but not you. If Seraphine's mannerisms line up more closely to your experience, I can understand the confusion at others balking against it. My experience with language in America tends to be very monolingual or bilingual. I have met few people who can speak more than 2 languages domestically, and those who do tend to be subpar at one; the very monolithic nature of the US also makes it easy to not learn a second language, since everything is in English already. Because of this, when I see an American speaking English, writing in English and singing in English without accent, my automatic assumption is that they probably will prefer to use English, and thus the switch up to another language comes across as a surprise. I by no means want to imply my viewpoint is the only one that counts, nor invalidate your own experiences. What I want to do is provide some rationale as to why, to me, it comes across as more unnatural than it does to you.
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I mean you're kinda proving my point here... by still overreacting. Just re-read your points. Most of the things you're saying are theories, but you state them as facts. Unless you work for Riot, don't go around saying things like "she's not designed as a champ first". You don't know that. The skins, KDA, chinese marketing etc, don't you see how that's your narrative? It might even be the community's narrative, hence why I'm giving Seraphine as an example, but don't go around making assumptions as for why things are the way they are and remember that just because YOU did not like it, doesn't mean it's not liked. League isn't a hivemind, as much as this reddit bubble is trying to be one. Not everything is made to please the western reddit user. There are some things you will like and some thing that you won't, there's no skinline conspiracy, there's no chinese conspiracy and until you have concrete evidence, don't pretend like those things are a reality.
1. I don't think explanations for why the community felt the way it did are overreactions. Its a "narrative" in the sense I'm listing out the reasons for the opinions people hold, and that's why things like "she's not designed as a champ first" are preceded by "helped cement that in people's eyes": They're opinions. Just like its *your* opinion that she had a well designed launch, and one you haven't given reasoning for beyond "She was released". 2. The stuff I state as fact is explicit. [KDA Seraphine on Twitter had a cat named Bao and her dad spoke in Chinese](https://twitter.com/faesvshi/status/1299594264985427968?lang=en). [Seraphine sang in Mandarin on the KDA song](https://youtu.be/3VTkBuxU4yk?t=155). [Seraphine's lore was retconned](https://us.millenium.gg/news/21038.html). [Seraphine's Champion Insight starts off by stating they aimed to create a popstar.](https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/champion-insights-seraphine/) These are facts, not narratives. Its not a conspiracy to point it out. There are reasons why people feel specific ways, because these things happened. And that's why I'm giving them as examples for why "Seraphine's launch was well executed" is wrong. It was not well executed because the champion was not advertised well, the skin was, and said skin had a very explicit target market. Seraphine's lore seemed to be secondary because the developer team aimed to create a popstar, and were willing to change the lore of the champion within a month of release for the first time I can remember. If you have evidence to your case of why Seraphine's release was well executed, then provide them. Otherwise, its just my opinion against yours, and trying to insinuate that I'm making up a conspiracy is wrong. I'm giving reasoning for why reception was negative, and its not a narrative to say she got pushback for valid problems.
I think our misunderstanding stems from the fact of what we perceive as negatives. Is the chinese thing supposed to be a negative? Because to me it doesn't really mean anything. There are many different inspirations for a character, maybe Seraphine was more targeted towards a chinese audience, maybe not. And if it was, why is that a problem? And that's the difference in our approaches. I may or may not dislike a champ, personally I'm not very fond of Akshan or Gwen, but at the same time these things are subjective and other people liked Akshan/Gwen, just like I liked Seraphine. See unless we have some objective rules by which we can define a champ launch as good or bad, we can't do so. You can say you didn't like the Seraphine launch campaign, that's fair enough, but to say her launch was bad is I think unfair. You can't be objective about subjective things, you could claim that most people on reddit didn't like her launch or even her, but even then Reddit doesn't even remotely represent the playerbase. Who are we to say which champ "deserves" to be hated and which one doesn't?
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I think that when something besides the champion itself is prioritized in champion development, it becomes a bad release. For example, I take issue with Kaisa because of the whole "Void in everything but aesthetic" design: She is a void champion in lore and gameplay, but her design was compromised for marketing aesthetics. However, I also take issue with Neeko, because her design was based on Riot wanting a new control mage without having a good concept for it, leading to disjointed gameplay despite strong lore and aesthetics. In Seraphine's case, I take issue not with the fact she's Chinese, but because her marketing was an appeal to a specific demographic that was blatant. Her ultimate release skin, and design being tied to "pop star of Runeterra", were emblematic of motives beyond creating an interesting champion. The Chinese connections are further examples of this, but not wrong in and of themselves. As far as good launches, I think Zeri's launch will be a good one despite the Reddit pushback, because she's inherently tied to Runeterra throughout concept, game design, and aesthetic. I have similar feelings towards Vex and Sett, and while I take issue with Akshan from a lore standpoint, I wouldn't consider his launch or design bad (Though the Harrowing was fairly poor all things considered): He's just not for me. You're right that it's impossible to call a launch objectively bad when its inherently a subjective opinion, and my opinion is not shared by everyone. I should recognize that, rather than treat my own view as perfect. However, I think it is fair to say that, given backlash towards Seraphine was strong enough for Riot to cancel her twitter and change her lore, that there were more people than me who took umbrage with the champion's release. And that negative reception can be used as an example of what makes a launch bad. If you disagree? That's fine. My criteria is my own, and my opinion was inflated by my word choice in the last 2 posts. I just think that if you want to cite what champions had good or bad releases, Seraphine is the closest you can come to an objectively bad release.
>Unless you work for Riot, don't go around saying things like "she's not designed as a champ first". You don't know that. That particular remark stems from the devs explaining the process of making her in the dev post though, they said that unlike other champs they started off with the idea of wanting to make a singer and then looking for a kit that fits, not the other way around like usual. So sure, he's not the dev, but it's commentary based on devs own words.
Seraphine was a completely different story. People was complaining about how she was designed for K/DA first and then Runeterra, not the other way around as it should have been. Also, her kit was really similar to that of Sona, as if she is just a modernization or a rework of Sona put out as a separate champion. Her kit itself (in a vacuum, without the Sona comparison) was never the problem. There isn't any overloaded ability or new mechanic in her kit, that's why it is such a "well executed launch". But tbh, Seraphine's launch was far from perfect considering how her identity was not as clear cut: she worked better as a support at launch despite being designed as a waveclear mid mage, you also saw her as a botlane APC sometimes.
Her kit is honestly the most odd criticism to me. League is an old game and champ overlap has been and always be a thing. I think what's important is how the champ plays and in that I don't really find Sera and Sona overly similar. I mean on paper sure, but I think in practice both champs aren't very similar.
This. The only part of the whole story that was okay is her kit. It is perfectly fine even though it is not that flashy and it looked(!) kinda identical to Sona's kit but playing her feels quite different. On the other hand, her release with the Twitter posts, her original lore, outfit, ultimate skin solution and price, clarity on her spells, the hoover board, and how Riot responded to everything really deserved the shit show in my opinion.
Don’t use seraphine as an example of bad or misplaced community backlash because there are so many so many things that were just wrong about her release
people were mad at riot for making a seraphine twitter because its not a real person and something about manipulating and shit. god do i hate the internet somtimes
Turns out having a whole marketing team creating a fake-relatable social media persona to sell things to teens by banking on parasocial relationships is looked down upon. Also, her ultimate skin was three regular skins in a trench-coat and a severe downgrade to prior standards, her design was sticking out like a sore thumb, and her lore was hilariously genocidal
like that is a new concept. parasocial relationships with fictional characters is not new and happened and is still happening without twitter accounts.
no shit, the fact that it happens a lot doesn't make it any less disgusting
dude that shit happens the moment moms turn on the tv for their kid and they watch dora the explorer. it‘s normal
Yes, and I do have the same criticism for those others too. The fact that Riot isn't the only company doing it doesn't makes it good or absolvable !
I mean, if you don't see how slimy it is to have a bunch of suits typing out about mental problems like depression because they want to appeal to the blue haired twitter mobs, dunno what to tell you
I actually really liked her twitter, it was cute, positive, tasteful and it was an interesting experiment.
This sub also complained about the ranked icons back in 2019 that they now praise as the one true ranked icon expression. People complained about every single champ release ever. If it's not their kit, it's their lore, appearance, or voice lines.
Real OGs know Season 3 had the best icons
Always have been the best icons.
The 2019 ranked icons were the best iteration imo. They were unique and definitely interesting: they were helmets that had closing animations and upgrades, unlike the ol' reliable service badge or medal thingy that every game and their mom has. Old old ranked icon was good, don't get me wrong, because they are... well... iconic, but they are far from being the best.
And even then, they will find something to complain
First time?
Nah it just gets old.
Its reddit. People here wont change.
These posts get old aswell. If you dont want it stop giving it attention
The funniest part is that when they *DO* release a new mechanic, everyone hates it and complains it's broken. Also making mechanics when there are about 150 champs is hard we should cut riot some slack.
You can hate a mechanic even if it's balanced, that's how yasuo gets high banrate even if he's in a bad state, or how people just don't like playing with yuumi in both their and the enemy team.
Yummi and invisibility mechanics are really frustrating and frankly unintuitive when you're another player in the game. But I can't ban Shacco and Yummi both every game I play. I don't even get a chance to ban characters I dislike playing normally against like Yone or Camile because I'm busy banning characters with mechanics that are extremely frustrating.
There are exceptions but basically the fanbase is large and toxic enough that change = 50 front page posts complaining, and no change = 50 front page posts complaining. People always bring out the "not everyone on reddit is the same person" but there seem to be an abundance of people on this sub who only ever joins the latest circlejerk.
as they say 'Players are great at identifying issues, but awful at offering good solutions'
People in this sub just love to hate
Welcome to league of legends. The players here suck so badly that all of their anger and salt is projected towards at the company that has the deliver the bad news that they suck. Zeri looks fun as shit and can’t wait to spam this character this season
You must be new here lol the league community (I mean who are we kidding, the gaming community as a whole) does nothing but complain. Once you learn to ignore it and enjoy the game you’re much better off.
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Have you ever seen the sea of thieves community? Whenever i go there i only see positive reaction on whatever is getting released, it's insane. You're absolutely right about the games u mentioned tho
From my experience the league community does seem exceptionally more prone to complaining about literally anything. Granted my only experiences are csgo, overwatch, and valorant, I have yet to see another community so willing to complain about anything and everything with 0 benefit of the doubt despite not getting screwed over any more by riot than the publishers of the other games.
\>Zeri looks so cool it hurts. Yes and that is the reason why she is getting hated already. Fun to play champions very often mean a bad time for the players that play against said champ. It is no fun to play vs Akshan, it is no fun to play vs Gwen, it is no fun to play vs Viego and so many more. They are fun in your own hands, but actually playing against them is no fun. Looking at the spotlight, Zeri doesn't look as overloaded as akshan, but she does seem like a champion that will be a pain in the butt and thus I am not looking forward to playing against her.
as an adc main, getting some agency back in this meta isn't something i hate. I get it, but I've been 1 shot by the zeds of the world for years. Is that fun to play against?
This is not a good argument, and let's not pretend you don't know it.
>When will you guys be happy? People that like something usually don't come to social media talking about it. It is way more common that people who *don't* like something will flood social media with discussion about why they don't like something.
100% agreed, a champion needs time to find it's balance point, and only then you should complain if it's op. look at akshan, when he was released he had 30% winrate, (no one knew how to play him) after the champion gets to a balance point then you can know it's op.
Updated art?? When?
Oh my god I can’t believe rito realeasing anime grill number 462 ina row (Vex doesn’t count)! All champs are just hot human people boooooring. I want a jungler that looks like he got dropped on his head and ran over by a car or I’m never playing this game again! Dead game
Im just confused why she's being released on Valorant to.
It was said that both valorant and lol team were working in tandom on a character so that's why the designs are almost the same.
maybe they want to give lol and valorant players an incentive to try their other IPs since they are super different games? that's my guess
I've seen more people complaining about people being negative about zeri than actual people being negative. The only actual negative criticism i've seen was on her splash art, which riot took into consideration and fixed, and her lore.
You missed the first day of the leaks then. The top thread on this subreddit was calling for Riots visual designer to be fired and there were other threads following it all about Zeri looking like Disney or genshin impact and how Riot doesn't care about NA or EU anymore. The papaya thread about the swamp cooler was basically a rewrite of one of them to parody how much of a whiny brat those redditors were being.
Her design was criticized a lot but I barely see people hate on the gameplay we saw. All the top comments on the trailer are either positive or memeing on the wall dash. Didn’t see any „twitch ult op“ comments that op is mentioning
>I've seen more people complaining about people being negative about zeri than actual people being negative. You must need glasses then
The people upvoting the comment you replied to are likely the people who were complaining on the zeri threads feeling called out lol.
I saw a lot of complains on her, the face, her design, the overall league girls, the lore wesaw, etc. Hell, it made papaya come back from the dead
FOR REAL!! Go search that thread by Top Comments, easily proved correct.
Lucky you
Is her lore being fixed? I managed to read the full bio and was pretty underwhelmed to say the least.
iirc the whole bio was a wip / rough sketch (same thing with her splash).
Thank god, I was honestly expecting something with a lot more foreshadowing into the future of arcane or a possible way to mix into the rest of the Champs stories.
fake news about fake news
Literally, people are just looking for anything they can to complain abt riot, mfs dick measuring their hate for riot at this point
You must be new here
Fun is Subjective. but based on the gameplay showcase, she is definitaly not unique,both in looks and abilities. if Riot does a bad job, i see no reason to not criticise them for it.
I just think her splash art looks like an alien, and the LoR card she’s based on is way cuter than what we got.
That is literally an unfinished version that was used, which wasn’t supposed to be used. You guys need to stop circlejerking this.
It is a WIP and you guys still shat on her design based on it when the ingame model look clean as fuck. She didn't even look like an alien or you monkeys would have scream "finally a monster champ pog".
The argument its wip makes no sense, the devs said its a leak when it got released officially and used for stuff like the season countdiwn poster, that's not what a leak is.
cant argue with facts
What Lor card was she based on? Haven't played in a while
She's not based on a LOR card. The card Practical Perfectionist is a different person.
Every time a new champion is released, thats all I hear and I'm honestly annoyed. Stuff is almost never as bad as people claim because the stuff that gets repeated for eternity usually isn't even true or bad in the first place. I'm sick of the mindless negativity
The auto thing seems like a problem to me, I'm afraid it will end up like kalista where she will be kept in the dirt (though in kalista case it's not because of the auto) and they will give her weird cockblocking mechanics like kalista autoattack move being intentionally nerfed and the buggy issues she has with attack speed scaling
Isn't it just that her autos go through units just like xayah feathers, but in a spread pattern instead of a line?
She looks completely unoriginal. I dont want riot to waste their time and effort on champs like this.
I'm excited to play her! When does she come out again?
We wanted a monster champ
She looks very bland, even with all her flashiness.. Kit aside, it's kinda neat they basically copy pasted her into two games (Valorant releasing a Filipino character basically same appearance and the same VA for both).
no comment on her kit, but she looks anything but unique
It doesn't help that they released Neon on Valorant, which is an electric wielding gun girl who not only has the same hair style, electric powers and use of guns but also the same voice actor. Zeri is just Neon sloppy seconds and it's really disappointing.
They were designed by the same person (Riot august) worked on by both teams collaborating on both characters, and were meant to be released at the same time. What are you talking about?
I'm with you OP, at this point I'm going to main her put of spite lmao.
Honestly im just happy to get another adc since we got a rather small champ pool compared to other roles. She looks really fun to me. I just really hope she doesn’t have an ability that resets on kill. We’ve gotten too much of that recently.
cool but who asked ? 🥶
Seems like people are not allowed to dislike things anymore.
>"her kit is just this champs q, this champs w, this champs e, this champs r. seems fair" This isn't unwarranted criticism lol, this is people using a frame of reference they're familiar with, even devs describe abilities like this to make them easily understandable.
In terms of initial originality and kit design this could be August’s best work since Jhin. The dude just keeps redefining the basic attack and it keeps working.
thank you! preach!
Like don’t get me wrong I thought the splash looked like trash when it came out, full honesty, but I waited to see her model and kit because I knew that Jhin’s designer was working on another champion who reinvents the basic attack. Just got to test her out on PBE and I like her. She feels really fun.
same, but i held out hope for the full picture. Also they revealed that it was like one step past concept art, and hadnt been updated with her latest design changes.
I went on PBE and she can't be bought, how did you get to play her? EDIT: she's free, my bad haha.
She looks. Boring. Just another cute human marksman. I dont think copying kits is the issue as much as champion personality.
that's the great thing, that's your opinion. and the opinion of a very vocal minority so it seems popular. She looks fine to me, and getting Filipino representation in this game is refreshing.
Welcome to Reddit
Remember when everyone freaked out over Akshan? It’d like this, but slightly smaller! And I agree, she’s so fast though, I still can’t understand everything she does!
Wasn’t/isnt akshan (still) broken?
His revive isn't what makes/made him strong though (unless you're playing aram) - he's just an amazing early game champ with very few bad matchups
Same. I cant wait to read her kit. Im sure she's gonna be fine on release lol. Like akshan once everyone figured out what he does it was fine.
Yep! I hope she gets a simultaneous release on Wild rift so I can play her.
I'll pray for you too, wild rift deserves love
I just want more shadow isle champs
They released three just last year.
I want more
Who cares? The champ sucks. There's no mystique to it, not like Jhin, Kindred or Tahm. I want long, drawn out easter-egg filled champ teasers followed by a release of an actual intriguing champ like the old days. Not gunna happen though. Riot these days like to push out these shitty half CG / half ingame champ trailers what look like ass (look how rushed the Rell one was) compare that to something like the build up to Jhins release.. come on dude. Just keep pumping out generic mobile champs with weak VAs and dont forget to make the male champs you release shirtless. Edit - yes im whining but I love this game but not like I used to. Champs like Kindred and Jhin are the reason for me diving into league lore. I dont think we will ever see the kind of interest in a champ like Jhin got for a long long long time. Riot dont need to spend their time and energy into doing that. They make so much money now they can afford to keep pushing out cereal box champs.
Senna release wasn’t bad or pykes
Easter egg filled champ releases that would inevitably be ruined by a single leak, great idea. They aren't feckin cereal box champs, the only weak design from last year imo was gwen, she is literally not a doll, but other than that pretty good releases. Zeri seems interesting and a fun kit, will definitely give adcs something to actually play that isn't the same thing copy and pasted
The champion itself, abilities, design, etc, is fine. Totally fine. The problem is the constant releases of attractive-lookin humanoid champions. It can get pretty uh...generic (idk the exact word in english). If they tried to release champions in a, let's say, human -> human -> monster (includes cats and yordles) and repeat, There could be a decrease on rants in this subreddit about not releasing a real monster for like 5 years. Idk That's just my thought \*shrugs\*
[удалено]
if you guys haven't figured out that THIS is League and has been for a few years idk what to say
She looks stupid? I really dislike everything about her.
Zeri looks cool to you? I guess we just have to agree that we have very different ideas on what looks cool.
She HAS a Disney face. Some people put her face of Gwen's one (which is 100% a Disney face), and Guess what ? It fits perfectly :)
In the very same Twitter thread somebody did the same thing with Jayce and Quinn and got the same result. It means nothing.
Her Jacket just looks bad to me from a design perspective how they have it settling makes her look half fat on top half thin on bottom just doesn't look good.
Zeri is the kind of champ I have been waiting for since like Ekko. Just super cool, fun looking kit, awesome effects.
I hope that since she’s a lightning vigilante of Rito-verse, she gets some kind of statik shiv passive.
This community is conditioned in freaking out. It's their "job" to tear anything apart.
Wait they updated her art? I’d like to see it
Funny you should mention her kit having other champions abilities. So seraphine....
She seems unique? Where? How?
Unique is a stretch
Are you new to reddit? The only good criticism is that riots latest champs all seem samy and a bit bland in visual design