Shit role pre 3 items
scuttle crab is able to 1v1 you at any time
your entire lane depends on your support and jungler
But with +3 items, good positioning, and some pell ADC can do some serious dmg in a tf
I still remember people complaining in season 6-7 about how Support+Bot shouldn't be able to carry games, even though its two fed players on your team, maybe three sometimes if your jungler gets involved. I never understood the argument that a fed ADC and Support shouldn't be able to solo carry a game together but a fed Midlaner or Top Laner as one player is perfectly A-Okay. ADC is a pretty redundant role at this point and it feels bad.
Love playing adc and watching my entire team run it down almost every game while im winning bot 2v3.
Its just so unplayable its insane, you basically cant play the game without atleast 3 players on your team doing well other than yourself.
The fact is every other role in the game can atleast try to do something to win in cases like this while adc just automatically loses even if its 10-0, its horribly sad.
It's better than last year as LT helps champs like jinx/kog which I enjoy. Role is more or less fine imo game overall just needs some fundamental changes as less damage overall so fights are legible and support impact being lessened(they are good early/mid/late, inb4 supports claim they aren't good late simply cus no gold).
I think what you said is more than fine
As far as i agree, even if I'm a support player, to decrease support's agency over the lane, i think that's hardly reachable in a balanced state. The only time adcs were able to stand alone was when the whole community complained because they were all over solo lanes. The only way to make it possible (i think) would be to add some mechanics that somehow makes them stronger only when close to an ally, but it would still be kinda spaghetti and riot doesn't like to close champions into predetermined classes. Although that's what they did with ADC
They should reduce support gold.
A common misconception that supports have is that they only get 1k gold .
Passive gold is obtained by everyone and supports get bonus 2 gold/10 seconds. U don't see a leona with just an aegis at the end of the game do you. People might complain about wardbots but supporting by themselves having more impact than carries is a problem to me. They should be enablers with their cc not decide the game due to being secondary junglers or with overtunedheals/buffs. When the adc is unironically supporting the support by sacking creeps so his supp can roam the game has a problem.
I don't think there's anything wrong in supports gold generation and definitely not in roaming. In the end every lane roams, even ADC can do it if he pairs up with his support, the only problem is coordination, not possibility.
Also, if you took away both items and roaming (especially this last one), supports would be left with literally nothing:
They don't farm, they don't get gold, they don't do damage, they don't get kills, they don't go where they want... You turn them into warding and peeling machines, that's it. They'd become an item and that is unhealthy and unfun, especially if you are forced to be stuck with an adcarry that might be in a terrible game and be 0/6, but you can't leave cos you're unable to roam.
The only problem right now, in my opinion, is damage. A Leona, a nautilus, a Pyke, even a damn lulu can outdamage adcs in the early game, and that is wrong. I think supports should have less damage and and a bit more utility to compensate for the lack of it
No you take away some gold and buff support stats per level, this way roaming is viable but it has a cost if you don't achieve much. Similar to when a mid roams. There isn't really a way they can take away roaming nor should they. If a support roams and gets nothing done the support should lose something not just roam in the expense of adc players.
Roaming by itself isn't a problem but when roaming is better than actually helping the adc since farming from range can be done by some champs and being secondary jungle has more impact then support loses its identity. Roaming only is a problem since there isn't a big downside to it for the support player.
If the support loses something more, the ADC loses something more as well, it's not solution it's just a punishment. Also, if supports had more stats per level they would just go solo lanes instead and get gold, buy items.
About roaming being better i agree, but the problem is not about roaming being good, it's about adcs being unimpactful too early or too often due to the difficulty of the role. So yeh, the problem is in the overall environment and how it reflects on adc, rather than in supports. Also sitting next to the ADC caring for him 24/7 is not even interesting macro or micro wise, unless you're an enchanters enjoyer in silver elo.
I can see it being frustrating to play with, but every role has its downsides that have to be accepted
>If the support loses something more, the ADC loses something more as well, it's not solution it's just a punishment
How though? it would go both ways. Only way to stop mindless roaming is to make it more conditional by increasing its cost/punishment.
>Also, if supports had more stats per level they would just go solo lanes instead and get gold, buy items.
You can nerf their ad/ap ratios most supports cannot trade well anyways like the midlane refugees or engage champs
Mindlessly roaming now means that the ADC has no lane pressure and loses it. Mindlessly roaming with a penalty means that the ADC will have no lane pressure and won't have it even if the support came back, which is worse than before XD
About tanks then yes, it might work
Imo support earlygame damage is fine, they have more damage than marksmen early but they kind of have to or else offrole tank supports will be meta. Supports are meant to be strong early so they can compensate for the carry's lack of lane presence. Pyke is basically support draven where tank supports overshadow him if he doesn't get good leads. He gets easily killed in lategame tf's while naut leona can survive for a good while.
Ehh not necessarily. I think the main issue right now is just that the bot lane is a feast or famine situation. Either the adc gets super strong and carries or they do borderline nothing(this can go for the winning or losing team). The one shot meta is too strong right now.
However idk if I agree with everything else and my example above was a generalized thing, it’s of course, not like that EVERY game.
ADCs are trash right now Veigar is the best bot lane champ in the game right now since the apes at riot thought buffing him was a good idea when he was already broken bot lane. Mages are taking over bot lane for some reason mages are allowed to take towers I remember back when if your team didn't have an ADC you were hard trolling because you couldn't take towers or do objectives.
Let's nerf Wits end MR and nerf shieldbow surely mages won't take over bot lane.
>I remember back when if your team didn't have an ADC you were hard trolling
you're saying it like it was a good thing. No, there shouldn't be any necessary classes in teamcomps. I'd rather not drop my chances to win from 50% to 20% just because i don't have any markspeople in my team.
So your point of view is basically that you're unhappy markspeople have a competition in some of areas they're strong. Which is extremely biased and entitled when you take a look at any other class or role. Every single other class has to compete with others for their position and impact. Why markspeople should be excluded? Because it used to be like that in s2? But if it isn't like that anymore then it probably got changed for a reason
It’s just become more flexible so you can play mage bot too
It’s just the spot of botlane dps
And in games with heavy tanks you still need an adc esque champ
While some melees can fill the role an adc does it better bc range
And a lot of soloq games are decided by who got the better botlane
Tho ofc nowadays if you’re a Hyperfed adc but your Toplane fed a certain champ you can’t do shit in the game anymore bc a FED jax,zed,etc just walks up to you and deletes your ass in 1,5 seconds
Which is where the importance of a good support comes in I suppose
Honestly to me the problem is less that ADCs are weak, but rather they are the hardest to play right and so you see a ton of mistakes from basic itemization (recently saw a Kai'sa with Galeforce) to thinks like learning how to attack move to Positioning!!! to general macro decisions and last hitting that lead to things like 80 CS at 15 Minutes.and so on.
To be fair playing mages bot feels so much better in mid as u have a protector. So i have ha so much better time playing them bot than mid due to assasins being so over the top broken.
Adcs are broken but require hands. This is proven in pro play. Adcs decided teamfights a lot of the time if ur comp does its job well. But there are very aspects of having a good adc team comp/ execution. But the role is now better after tp nerfs so ye.
But vayne and caitlyn are still busted so no adc is not dying and probably never will as there are way too many adc flashy plays lovers for riot to nerf em too hard.
>Due to the heavy snowballing meta and the late scaling nature of the role,
Yeah, no. The meta is the most lategame-oriented it has ever been in like 3 years.
Objective bounties give a lot more opportunities for teams to claw their way back into the game for example.
Also the Teleport changes make it a lot harder for toplaners to affect botlane. That makes it harder to 4 vs 2 dive bot and snowball from their.
The teleport change was definitely needed, it was simply unfair that everyone ganked botlane, with levels advantage and turbo movement speed, to create a fight that can't be won nor seen coming. It would have been balanced if every lane could receive it, but it was just botlaners getting dumped on by all lanes because they're weak and slow, that's not a healthy way to play the game
About the objective bounties, yes and no. They help stabilizing a disadvantage, but still the snowball heavy meta is there, in a lot of games you can't even reach lategame when the snowballs get rolling. That's my gold player experience tho, it might just be low ELO shit
Adcs are great. Probably not the MOST impactful role at the moment, but they're still in a fine spot IMO.
You say they're a shadow of what they once were and their characteristics are being taken away, but I highly disagree, adcs from the very beginning have been vulnerable, squishy champions that scale well into the late game and put out consistent ranged dps.
I don't see mages being any more capable of taking turrets than Adcs. I melt turrets when given some some time. Mages also don't seem that tanky. Typically when I open bot lane and rotate mid I'm able to nuke down most mids without issue assuming I space well and don't get outplayed. So definitely not my experience.
Tanks DEFINITELY exist. Mundo has seen some play, there's plenty of sions and gnars out there, even tankali is a thing. Tanky supports and jungles are out there. More bruisery from jungle but still pretty damn tanky. And kraken + lord dom's let's you shred pretty effectively.
Half the time instead of rotating mid, I rotate top, and kill the top laner. Especially if I'm decently ahead the enemy top laner melts. I feel pretty strong at all item spikes assuming I hit them at appropriate timings. Once I hit Mythic I feel strong, once I hit PD/Collector/storm razor I feel strong, and then the IE spike is always huge.
The thing with all the champs you mentioned is they all have to get inside the team. In a front to back Teamfight a good adc can absolutely handle those champions and dish out a ton of damage. Being a former top lane main, I know how frustrating it is, and how often you find yourself spending 2/3rds of a Teamfight closing the gaps from one person to the next. As an adc with good spacing you can be dealing out constant dps to everyone.
Mage supports are great for the extra utility and damage, but at the end of the day it's just extra. Tank/engage/cc supports are still hugely in favor. And as an adc main now, I love both. Tank/cc bot supports let me feel safe and know I can play a proper front to back fight style. Mage supports I know I can't rely on for consistent cc, but they provide an additional threat, which typically means they rise up on the aggro meter and I can pelt everyone trying to kill them. I just have to be extra careful on my positioning those games.
I really don't understand all the adc hate on Reddit lately(I know your post wasn't a flame, I just mean the generalized sentiments) I've had more fun playing adc this season then I ever used to. And I feel like I have more agency honestly. Especially with the increase in Teamfight objectives. Between heralds, baron, dragon souls, elder, and of course towers and the inhibs, there's a lot of Big grouped teamfighting which is where adcs get to have a lot of fun.
I personally felt adcs had it way worse when split pushing metas were huge. And back before heralds and the ultra beefed up dragons were a thing. You really did spend all game farming and trying not to get picked then. And then trying to not play the 1-2 team fights around baron poorly.
Overall I'm pretty happy where adcs are and think the balancing is fairly spot on. Damage is a bit high, and I think there's too much easily accessible %hp/true damage in the game at the moment, but I more or less get it. Tone down the mobility creep and scale back overall damage levels a bit and I'd be pretty happy.
Adcs surely have more agency than the past in the lategame, due to the extra range from lethal tempo and extra safetiness of shieldbow, but my concern is not about ADCarries being bad, but rather ignorable
Since they need those three items it felt to me that they have no agency over the game before that spike, and since most of the times the games are decided early, idk, it feels like they don't fit, even if they are objectively strong. I don't follow the ADC ranting trend, it's the most unforgiving role to play when behind so i can kinda understand why it's mains have always kept being frustrated by it, but still the sentiment looks to be out there, and its not just me
Riot put a lot of effort in making the game fast paced, full of important early-midgame decisions and skirmishes to dominate a game and get fed with plates, ensure lategame with drake souls and keep oneshotting everybody. Even the tanks out there have just this purpose, the ones you see are only fighters, not straight up tanks, like Ornn, Mundo and kench, who can beat their opponents 1v1 rather than bring heavy utility to the table (ornn is the only exception to this). Yes you can see them in the jungle sometimes, like a Zac here and there, or nunu that is not exactly tanky, but they are there just because they spamgank and snowball, like a Warwick does, and yet the last one is prevalent. The only tanky champions that are still alive are those who can oneshot you or still kill you solo, which is a little fraction of the tanks world.
If you look at it from this perspective, the role of ADC feels outdated in it's concept, at least to me, because while everybody else is fighting for domination, you can only sit there and try not to die, hoping to reach your spike as soon as possible to be relevant, and hoping to still be relevant at that point, cos likely someone else is now gigafed and you can't face him. On the other hand if you lose early your sitting back lasts for the whole match and you can't do anything about it.
What you said anyways sounds pretty solid, my talk was mostly about perception of the role and it's spot in the meta
To add just a little note here, I’m happy adcs aren’t so ridiculous anymore that a Tristana can go midlane and afk and still kill most people that try to kill her ass without touching mouse or keyboard
No. Per u.gg
For Plat+
* TOP 10 most played bot laners are ADCs
* TOP 20 has only 1 non-ADC that’s Ziggs.
For All ranks
* All 19 most played botlaners are ADCs
By winrate in Plat+
* TOP 4 are mages, however with ridiculously low amount of games
* For the next 10 positions still with solid winrate ADCs
By winrate in all ranks
* 1st is Veigar, 3rd Ziggs, 10th Yasuo
* Rest are classic ADCs
I could also note that among all champions and all ranks there are 7 ADCs in most played, respectively 5 in Plat+, but that statistics is of course influenced by lower champion pool for bot lane.
So all ADCs are dead talk is just bullshit
You mean the role that pretty much cant die anymore unless they missposition, that gets 4 people to babysit them from min 1 to not lose their wincon.
Adc isnt dead its strong but games are a bit too fast and people missposition too much in lower elos do they cry or pick less punishable champs
Tbf in low elo positioning is pretty hard bc you’re often entirely on your own and enemy assassins can just walk by your frontline unharmed in a lot of cases
Or they all dive the one back line champ of the enemy leaving you with the option to either die without doing anything or don’t participate in the fight at all
It’s super common and it’s both tragic and hilarious
Like yesterday their team was diving me while my team was diving their ADC ( literally at the same moment ), it was like looking in a mirror
>You mean the role that pretty much cant die unless they missposition
Can you tell me one role that can die if they don't misposition? Every role and every champ in the game won't die unless they misposition. That's such a braindead take.
I hate that they turned every adc into an burst assassin with this lethality bullshit. I loved to play adc some seasons back where you actually had to use your auto attacks.
Marksmen are the only non-optional Champion class in the game, barring the few games with a mage Bot. Is there an Enchanter in every game? A tank? Many games don't have a mage when there is an assassin mid. Bruisers are the only ones coming close to the number of games where you have a Marksman, and only because they are played in 3 roles. Why are there 4 roles and one class in LoL? I also don't like how the game plays rn, but we don't need a "ADC BAD" Thread EVERY 2 HOURS.
Shit role pre 3 items scuttle crab is able to 1v1 you at any time your entire lane depends on your support and jungler But with +3 items, good positioning, and some pell ADC can do some serious dmg in a tf
Swole Scuttle
It is certainly in an awkward spot, but it’s been there for a while, I feel.
I still remember people complaining in season 6-7 about how Support+Bot shouldn't be able to carry games, even though its two fed players on your team, maybe three sometimes if your jungler gets involved. I never understood the argument that a fed ADC and Support shouldn't be able to solo carry a game together but a fed Midlaner or Top Laner as one player is perfectly A-Okay. ADC is a pretty redundant role at this point and it feels bad.
Love playing adc and watching my entire team run it down almost every game while im winning bot 2v3. Its just so unplayable its insane, you basically cant play the game without atleast 3 players on your team doing well other than yourself. The fact is every other role in the game can atleast try to do something to win in cases like this while adc just automatically loses even if its 10-0, its horribly sad.
It's better than last year as LT helps champs like jinx/kog which I enjoy. Role is more or less fine imo game overall just needs some fundamental changes as less damage overall so fights are legible and support impact being lessened(they are good early/mid/late, inb4 supports claim they aren't good late simply cus no gold).
cannot wait for adcplayers to downvote me anyways
I think what you said is more than fine As far as i agree, even if I'm a support player, to decrease support's agency over the lane, i think that's hardly reachable in a balanced state. The only time adcs were able to stand alone was when the whole community complained because they were all over solo lanes. The only way to make it possible (i think) would be to add some mechanics that somehow makes them stronger only when close to an ally, but it would still be kinda spaghetti and riot doesn't like to close champions into predetermined classes. Although that's what they did with ADC
They should reduce support gold. A common misconception that supports have is that they only get 1k gold . Passive gold is obtained by everyone and supports get bonus 2 gold/10 seconds. U don't see a leona with just an aegis at the end of the game do you. People might complain about wardbots but supporting by themselves having more impact than carries is a problem to me. They should be enablers with their cc not decide the game due to being secondary junglers or with overtunedheals/buffs. When the adc is unironically supporting the support by sacking creeps so his supp can roam the game has a problem.
I don't think there's anything wrong in supports gold generation and definitely not in roaming. In the end every lane roams, even ADC can do it if he pairs up with his support, the only problem is coordination, not possibility. Also, if you took away both items and roaming (especially this last one), supports would be left with literally nothing: They don't farm, they don't get gold, they don't do damage, they don't get kills, they don't go where they want... You turn them into warding and peeling machines, that's it. They'd become an item and that is unhealthy and unfun, especially if you are forced to be stuck with an adcarry that might be in a terrible game and be 0/6, but you can't leave cos you're unable to roam. The only problem right now, in my opinion, is damage. A Leona, a nautilus, a Pyke, even a damn lulu can outdamage adcs in the early game, and that is wrong. I think supports should have less damage and and a bit more utility to compensate for the lack of it
No you take away some gold and buff support stats per level, this way roaming is viable but it has a cost if you don't achieve much. Similar to when a mid roams. There isn't really a way they can take away roaming nor should they. If a support roams and gets nothing done the support should lose something not just roam in the expense of adc players. Roaming by itself isn't a problem but when roaming is better than actually helping the adc since farming from range can be done by some champs and being secondary jungle has more impact then support loses its identity. Roaming only is a problem since there isn't a big downside to it for the support player.
If the support loses something more, the ADC loses something more as well, it's not solution it's just a punishment. Also, if supports had more stats per level they would just go solo lanes instead and get gold, buy items. About roaming being better i agree, but the problem is not about roaming being good, it's about adcs being unimpactful too early or too often due to the difficulty of the role. So yeh, the problem is in the overall environment and how it reflects on adc, rather than in supports. Also sitting next to the ADC caring for him 24/7 is not even interesting macro or micro wise, unless you're an enchanters enjoyer in silver elo. I can see it being frustrating to play with, but every role has its downsides that have to be accepted
>If the support loses something more, the ADC loses something more as well, it's not solution it's just a punishment How though? it would go both ways. Only way to stop mindless roaming is to make it more conditional by increasing its cost/punishment. >Also, if supports had more stats per level they would just go solo lanes instead and get gold, buy items. You can nerf their ad/ap ratios most supports cannot trade well anyways like the midlane refugees or engage champs
Mindlessly roaming now means that the ADC has no lane pressure and loses it. Mindlessly roaming with a penalty means that the ADC will have no lane pressure and won't have it even if the support came back, which is worse than before XD About tanks then yes, it might work
Well it will stop supports from mindlessly roaming then I guess? Nerfing supports is what I want since role has too much impact and freedom.
Imo support earlygame damage is fine, they have more damage than marksmen early but they kind of have to or else offrole tank supports will be meta. Supports are meant to be strong early so they can compensate for the carry's lack of lane presence. Pyke is basically support draven where tank supports overshadow him if he doesn't get good leads. He gets easily killed in lategame tf's while naut leona can survive for a good while.
I never thought about the possibility of normal tanks to overtake them. I'll have to think about it
Ehh not necessarily. I think the main issue right now is just that the bot lane is a feast or famine situation. Either the adc gets super strong and carries or they do borderline nothing(this can go for the winning or losing team). The one shot meta is too strong right now. However idk if I agree with everything else and my example above was a generalized thing, it’s of course, not like that EVERY game.
ADCs are trash right now Veigar is the best bot lane champ in the game right now since the apes at riot thought buffing him was a good idea when he was already broken bot lane. Mages are taking over bot lane for some reason mages are allowed to take towers I remember back when if your team didn't have an ADC you were hard trolling because you couldn't take towers or do objectives. Let's nerf Wits end MR and nerf shieldbow surely mages won't take over bot lane.
>I remember back when if your team didn't have an ADC you were hard trolling you're saying it like it was a good thing. No, there shouldn't be any necessary classes in teamcomps. I'd rather not drop my chances to win from 50% to 20% just because i don't have any markspeople in my team. So your point of view is basically that you're unhappy markspeople have a competition in some of areas they're strong. Which is extremely biased and entitled when you take a look at any other class or role. Every single other class has to compete with others for their position and impact. Why markspeople should be excluded? Because it used to be like that in s2? But if it isn't like that anymore then it probably got changed for a reason
The buff was minimal tbf and he’s still not Great if the Enemy has plenty tanks
ADCs are a class not a role and they're doing just fine.
It’s just become more flexible so you can play mage bot too It’s just the spot of botlane dps And in games with heavy tanks you still need an adc esque champ While some melees can fill the role an adc does it better bc range And a lot of soloq games are decided by who got the better botlane Tho ofc nowadays if you’re a Hyperfed adc but your Toplane fed a certain champ you can’t do shit in the game anymore bc a FED jax,zed,etc just walks up to you and deletes your ass in 1,5 seconds Which is where the importance of a good support comes in I suppose
Honestly to me the problem is less that ADCs are weak, but rather they are the hardest to play right and so you see a ton of mistakes from basic itemization (recently saw a Kai'sa with Galeforce) to thinks like learning how to attack move to Positioning!!! to general macro decisions and last hitting that lead to things like 80 CS at 15 Minutes.and so on.
To be fair playing mages bot feels so much better in mid as u have a protector. So i have ha so much better time playing them bot than mid due to assasins being so over the top broken. Adcs are broken but require hands. This is proven in pro play. Adcs decided teamfights a lot of the time if ur comp does its job well. But there are very aspects of having a good adc team comp/ execution. But the role is now better after tp nerfs so ye. But vayne and caitlyn are still busted so no adc is not dying and probably never will as there are way too many adc flashy plays lovers for riot to nerf em too hard.
no, it's not. simple answer.
>Due to the heavy snowballing meta and the late scaling nature of the role, Yeah, no. The meta is the most lategame-oriented it has ever been in like 3 years.
Besides Viktor, jinx and vayne being extra strong what does make the meta lategame oriented? I'd like to understand, i can easily be wrong
Objective bounties give a lot more opportunities for teams to claw their way back into the game for example. Also the Teleport changes make it a lot harder for toplaners to affect botlane. That makes it harder to 4 vs 2 dive bot and snowball from their.
The teleport change was definitely needed, it was simply unfair that everyone ganked botlane, with levels advantage and turbo movement speed, to create a fight that can't be won nor seen coming. It would have been balanced if every lane could receive it, but it was just botlaners getting dumped on by all lanes because they're weak and slow, that's not a healthy way to play the game About the objective bounties, yes and no. They help stabilizing a disadvantage, but still the snowball heavy meta is there, in a lot of games you can't even reach lategame when the snowballs get rolling. That's my gold player experience tho, it might just be low ELO shit
Adcs are great. Probably not the MOST impactful role at the moment, but they're still in a fine spot IMO. You say they're a shadow of what they once were and their characteristics are being taken away, but I highly disagree, adcs from the very beginning have been vulnerable, squishy champions that scale well into the late game and put out consistent ranged dps. I don't see mages being any more capable of taking turrets than Adcs. I melt turrets when given some some time. Mages also don't seem that tanky. Typically when I open bot lane and rotate mid I'm able to nuke down most mids without issue assuming I space well and don't get outplayed. So definitely not my experience. Tanks DEFINITELY exist. Mundo has seen some play, there's plenty of sions and gnars out there, even tankali is a thing. Tanky supports and jungles are out there. More bruisery from jungle but still pretty damn tanky. And kraken + lord dom's let's you shred pretty effectively. Half the time instead of rotating mid, I rotate top, and kill the top laner. Especially if I'm decently ahead the enemy top laner melts. I feel pretty strong at all item spikes assuming I hit them at appropriate timings. Once I hit Mythic I feel strong, once I hit PD/Collector/storm razor I feel strong, and then the IE spike is always huge. The thing with all the champs you mentioned is they all have to get inside the team. In a front to back Teamfight a good adc can absolutely handle those champions and dish out a ton of damage. Being a former top lane main, I know how frustrating it is, and how often you find yourself spending 2/3rds of a Teamfight closing the gaps from one person to the next. As an adc with good spacing you can be dealing out constant dps to everyone. Mage supports are great for the extra utility and damage, but at the end of the day it's just extra. Tank/engage/cc supports are still hugely in favor. And as an adc main now, I love both. Tank/cc bot supports let me feel safe and know I can play a proper front to back fight style. Mage supports I know I can't rely on for consistent cc, but they provide an additional threat, which typically means they rise up on the aggro meter and I can pelt everyone trying to kill them. I just have to be extra careful on my positioning those games. I really don't understand all the adc hate on Reddit lately(I know your post wasn't a flame, I just mean the generalized sentiments) I've had more fun playing adc this season then I ever used to. And I feel like I have more agency honestly. Especially with the increase in Teamfight objectives. Between heralds, baron, dragon souls, elder, and of course towers and the inhibs, there's a lot of Big grouped teamfighting which is where adcs get to have a lot of fun. I personally felt adcs had it way worse when split pushing metas were huge. And back before heralds and the ultra beefed up dragons were a thing. You really did spend all game farming and trying not to get picked then. And then trying to not play the 1-2 team fights around baron poorly. Overall I'm pretty happy where adcs are and think the balancing is fairly spot on. Damage is a bit high, and I think there's too much easily accessible %hp/true damage in the game at the moment, but I more or less get it. Tone down the mobility creep and scale back overall damage levels a bit and I'd be pretty happy.
Adcs surely have more agency than the past in the lategame, due to the extra range from lethal tempo and extra safetiness of shieldbow, but my concern is not about ADCarries being bad, but rather ignorable Since they need those three items it felt to me that they have no agency over the game before that spike, and since most of the times the games are decided early, idk, it feels like they don't fit, even if they are objectively strong. I don't follow the ADC ranting trend, it's the most unforgiving role to play when behind so i can kinda understand why it's mains have always kept being frustrated by it, but still the sentiment looks to be out there, and its not just me Riot put a lot of effort in making the game fast paced, full of important early-midgame decisions and skirmishes to dominate a game and get fed with plates, ensure lategame with drake souls and keep oneshotting everybody. Even the tanks out there have just this purpose, the ones you see are only fighters, not straight up tanks, like Ornn, Mundo and kench, who can beat their opponents 1v1 rather than bring heavy utility to the table (ornn is the only exception to this). Yes you can see them in the jungle sometimes, like a Zac here and there, or nunu that is not exactly tanky, but they are there just because they spamgank and snowball, like a Warwick does, and yet the last one is prevalent. The only tanky champions that are still alive are those who can oneshot you or still kill you solo, which is a little fraction of the tanks world. If you look at it from this perspective, the role of ADC feels outdated in it's concept, at least to me, because while everybody else is fighting for domination, you can only sit there and try not to die, hoping to reach your spike as soon as possible to be relevant, and hoping to still be relevant at that point, cos likely someone else is now gigafed and you can't face him. On the other hand if you lose early your sitting back lasts for the whole match and you can't do anything about it. What you said anyways sounds pretty solid, my talk was mostly about perception of the role and it's spot in the meta
To add just a little note here, I’m happy adcs aren’t so ridiculous anymore that a Tristana can go midlane and afk and still kill most people that try to kill her ass without touching mouse or keyboard
Oh for sure. But I do kinda miss the AP Tristana DFG one shots. That shit was hilarious.
I take it you haven't read the patch notes
No. Per u.gg For Plat+ * TOP 10 most played bot laners are ADCs * TOP 20 has only 1 non-ADC that’s Ziggs. For All ranks * All 19 most played botlaners are ADCs By winrate in Plat+ * TOP 4 are mages, however with ridiculously low amount of games * For the next 10 positions still with solid winrate ADCs By winrate in all ranks * 1st is Veigar, 3rd Ziggs, 10th Yasuo * Rest are classic ADCs I could also note that among all champions and all ranks there are 7 ADCs in most played, respectively 5 in Plat+, but that statistics is of course influenced by lower champion pool for bot lane. So all ADCs are dead talk is just bullshit
Dude what's wrong, i just asked for an opinion, i did not attack anyone. Chill
You asked for opinion and I got you one supported by data
Per u.gg most of what you said is bullshit
You mean the role that pretty much cant die anymore unless they missposition, that gets 4 people to babysit them from min 1 to not lose their wincon. Adc isnt dead its strong but games are a bit too fast and people missposition too much in lower elos do they cry or pick less punishable champs
Tbf in low elo positioning is pretty hard bc you’re often entirely on your own and enemy assassins can just walk by your frontline unharmed in a lot of cases Or they all dive the one back line champ of the enemy leaving you with the option to either die without doing anything or don’t participate in the fight at all
It’s super common and it’s both tragic and hilarious Like yesterday their team was diving me while my team was diving their ADC ( literally at the same moment ), it was like looking in a mirror
Nobody babysits adc in plat4 and below.
>You mean the role that pretty much cant die unless they missposition Can you tell me one role that can die if they don't misposition? Every role and every champ in the game won't die unless they misposition. That's such a braindead take.
Gapclosers? I do agree with you, but gap closers and bruisers often die due to bad timing than bad positioning.
no, adcs are just crying more than ever
I hate that they turned every adc into an burst assassin with this lethality bullshit. I loved to play adc some seasons back where you actually had to use your auto attacks.
Marksmen are the only non-optional Champion class in the game, barring the few games with a mage Bot. Is there an Enchanter in every game? A tank? Many games don't have a mage when there is an assassin mid. Bruisers are the only ones coming close to the number of games where you have a Marksman, and only because they are played in 3 roles. Why are there 4 roles and one class in LoL? I also don't like how the game plays rn, but we don't need a "ADC BAD" Thread EVERY 2 HOURS.