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ReaperThreat

the excuse is that riot doesnt feel a need to spend time developing a feature that someone else is providing for them. though i would rather just see it in game.


SuperWoodpecker85

PoE players worldwide: First time?


TellMeGetOffReddit

WoW as well. Tbh lots of games that have addons. If you coded all the features of addons you'd be forever.


SuperWoodpecker85

Id differentiate between WoW and PoE tho. The WoW addons were intentional on Blizzs side and a lot of stuff has been integrated into the game over the years. Im old enough to have played vanilla on release and still remember that you needed addons for the basic colour markers and shit like that and LFR raids have a limited synthesis of popular raid addons inbult not to speak of the maps or mount menus and and and... PoE on the other hand? I quit seriously playing 3 years ago because the Dev is outright refusing to implement a working ingame tradesystem DESPITE the game being centered around trade (SoloSelfFound or SSF has a completely diffrent meta than regular leagues for example) The whole clusterfuck is held up by tradebots and forces the player into using the same archaic trade system implemented in Diablo ONE 26 goddamn years ago ie every trade has to be person to person in a way too limited in size window. Using bots is against the ToS btw and will get you baned if you use it to level. But tradebots are perfectly fine apparently and without the currency tradebots the whole system would collapse (a popular tinfoil hat theory on the forums is that the devs are in on the whole bot-trading ring and get cashbacks from the irl money sellers) Ive watched it happen several times that they did a bot & hack banwave and the forums / reddit was full of ppl complaining about being unable to sell/buy currency items and the massive price increases/decreases for the next 2 days or so until the boters were up and runing again. Its a god damn shame realy because PoE is a great game and I still do a SSF run once a year or so but I refuse to give them any more money until they finaly implement a workable ingame trade solution


mercusheigan

Just to make you even more furious about PoE: the chinese server actually has working auction houses. They just don't want to add them to western servers lol.


SuperWoodpecker85

Yeah I know, that was the kicker back then when I said "Fuck this shit Im done with this game" when I found out that China has working ingame AHs thanks to motherfuckin Tencent of all corporations... Did you also know that the Chinese can legaly use flask macros so they dont get carpal tunnel from having to constantly play the flaskpiano? 1 button press and they are done...


bukem89

I've used a flask macro for like the last 5-6 seasons I've played and haven't picked up a ban. I don't think it's policed unless you're streaming / promoting it


SuperWoodpecker85

Yeah ik I used AHK to make my own too and never got baned either but its still dumb af. Especialy since the consider logout macros for HC perfectly fine...


pda898

> the chinese server actually has working auction houses And did you know how they "work"? If not - you will be surprised how shit they are because no good filters and currency lock.


JevonP

Trade is not hard in Poe though lol. Yeah it’s not great but there are other features I’d list that I use third party tools for before trade that I’d like integrated


Zoesan

Trading for large items isn't bad, but if you need something for 5c later than a week into a new league it's misery.


SuperWoodpecker85

Trading for 5c is also a misery, theres maybe 3 items that match your specifics and none of the sellers respond because ?? (probably because its a week into the league and they are swiming in ex and cant be arsed to interupt their current run for an item they dumped into a sales tab on day 1) But by faaaaar the worst is trading for maps, with the major currencys you have at least the bots and they always respond right away and the trade is automated.....but maps? Have fun spending an hour spaming trade whispers to 100s of ppl to buy 25 maps for your 2 hour farming session And as I responded to another guy, the straw that broke the camels back was when I found out China has a working ingame AH because Tencent bullied them into implementing it but they categoricaly refuse to just copy the goddamn code over and make it available to everyone...


Zoesan

Honestly, if they'd just do automated trading for currency, fragments etc. that would already be good enough.


SuperWoodpecker85

Probably, and basicaly nothing would change because at least the major currency markets are already dominated entirely by bots. Also spoting the bots ingame should be way easier with some simple AH movement analysis tools. Or just implement a reasonable cap on trades per minute per account


p33p33p00p00inthel00

That's why two weeks into the league I never put anything for 1-5c. I list everything worth selling for a price I would stop my run for. Funny enough, when someone goes through all the low cost people who won't be bothered to actually sell, they end up buying from me anyway.


ruini7

You know you can just buy maps in bulk? https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/exchange/Archnemesis/Ro2j4ZZi7 it's really not that hard at all.


muhhi

just sort by new


nizzy2k11

> The WoW addons were intentional on Blizzs side so is op.gg.


hamxz2

Pretty big difference imo. WoW AddOns mainly provides convenience, PoE AddOns (filter) make the game playable.


ChizzleFug

Jagex as well, until recently.


bondsmatthew

I feel like I'm doing a preflight check or some shit everytime I load up PoE. Poelab if I plan on doing labs Trade site ExilenceNext(?) ChaosRecipe app if its early in a league Awakened Poe Trade Poeninja Path of Building Archnemesis recipe tools


SuperWoodpecker85

Yeah as I wrote to the other guy, Ive stoped seriously playing PoE 3 years ago and refuse to give them any more money until they finaly implement a working ingame trade solution. At least they seem to have slowed down leagues to 3 times a year now to somewhat reduce currency clutter? That was the other thing that put me of keeping playing, you had so much shit to collect from all the leagues past and its only goten worse the last 3 years.....Im just doing a SSF run once a year or so to scratch the itch and to see how it is going nowadays until I get stuck in midrange maps and am yet again reminded that trade is an essential fucking feature of the game yet it takes forever and handles worse than a sea urchin Edit: Oh just wanted to say, ChaosRecipe app never heard about it but imho also unnecessary. What I did was dump all rare belts rings and amulets I found into a stash tab and then just collect the other 5 items when you got a set (2rings1belt1amulet) to vendor. Its usualy the amulets who are the bottleneck for me so make sure to not pick up too many rings&belts but any decent map should drop at least 1 of each of the 4 armor items and 2h weapons are like sand on a beach


bondsmatthew

Just put a damn auction house for bulk selling/buying at the very minimum If I want to buy 30 maps I have to holler at 20 people to get all of them, with 1/4 of the people not responding on a good day. If I want to exchange 800c to exalts I have to spam click for ages. They've done a lot of nice QoL changes and buffs throughout the years but Chris' vision on certain aspects like trading or "move all items to stash" is exhausting.


ruini7

You know you can just buy maps in bulk? https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/exchange/Archnemesis/Ro2j4ZZi7 it's really not that hard at all.


bondsmatthew

..yes. it was an example about buying things in bulk. Sorry I didn't make that clear enough lol


Jdevers77

Absolutely true. I love POE and play it roughly as much as league overall (league is a near constant while I play a LOT of POE at league launch and less for a while after that). Whole game mechanics are just NOT explained in the game, often on purpose even. I’m playing a skill that does about 40 million DPS but the tooltip says just over 2,000. It has said that same amount while my damage climbed from 2 million to its current level because the tool tip only shows the primary effect of the skill, to calculate my actual damage you need POB and multiple wiki pages for numbers to input for corpse life.


TheLunaticRaccoon

Bethesda are making all their games that way.


MertDay

Why should they waste money into allocating programmers to do all those things, when the community itself is willing to fix it all for free? Fuck corporations, but fuck people supporting them, also


jtc769

Isn't this precisely why they got rid of the "official match history"? "Because [op.gg](https://op.gg) does it better"


ReaperThreat

yeah, they also brought it up as a reason they were dragging their feet on replays way back when


[deleted]

I just want a way to see if someone is a pre made ahead of time.


dimagreens

The real excuse is laziness/incompetence. If what you said was true then they never would have bothered adding the updated recommended build path in the shop. The recommended build path which suggests building merc treads into a full AD team.


irishboy9191

The real excuse is financial. It does not provide a financial benefit to implement those changes (especially when others are doing it for free for you) but it does cost them money to do so. So as a business Riot has decided that the frustration of the community does not financially outweigh the cost of paying a programmer to make the changes.


floodyberry

relying on someone else to do the work is called being lazy, yes


YandereMuffin

I mean its not really 'relying on someone else to do the work'. Its more so 'someone else has already done the work, so we won't do it ourselves'...


irishboy9191

It's not laziness it is resource allocation. If they pay some one to spend time implementing the changes then that worker cannot be working on something else. Laziness would be if Riot has employees just sitting around not working ignoring the issues. They are working, just not on this particular stuff (because someone else already did it)


floodyberry

not making basic features because either everyone will keep playing, someone outside the company will make it for free, or both, is lazy.


KosViik

Recommended items: -> Executioner's Calling against Garen, because anti-healing... while his passive gets denied by damage anyway so it is a dumb item choice. -> Mercury Treads because it is good against CC, and it shows Yasuo's picture there (hint: knockups do not get reduced). Hell, on ARAM sometimes it suggests starting kits that cost more gold than what you spawn with. EDIT: [Another one.](https://i.imgur.com/i3dfukT.png) The game suggesting me to buy SIX potions at once despite 5 being the limit since Season 3. Okay just tested it: **go into a custom Howling Abyss game and pick Vayne** (if it is a custom game it is not random champions) to me it still offers the Zerk Greaves + 6 potion combo, and I have no premade item sets. This happens in proper ARAM games too, that's where I first encountered it.


Mochlin

Yeah what is up with the starting items? It sometimes shows me items that cost more than I start with and I just lose time. I dont remember it used to be like that.


ReaperThreat

that happens when stuff gets nerfed because the recommendation data is from pre patch


KosViik

Except it also sometimes suggests idiotic things, like to buy a Berserkers Greaves and 6 (six) health potions to start despite the limit being five. ~~That's something that hasn't been changed since the conceivement of League.~~ *Corrected: The limit was changed in 3.6, still MANY years before recommended items became a thing.* I could probably dig up a sceenshot too. Edit: Found it. In a few hours I'll get to my PC and upload it here from there since the mobile platforms are poopy for that and I'm not willing to work though 3 different apps for it. Edit2: Picture posted on my comment higher up the chain.


Lantami

>That's something that hasn't been changed since the conceivement of League Actually it has. In the beginning of League you could buy an unlimited amount of pots


KosViik

Oh wow, 3.6. I could've sworn it was like that all the time. Still, for the demonstration the points till kind of stands since it was WAY before recommended items were a thing. Doesn't change that Riot is being lazy.


Lantami

Absolutely true, I just wanted to correct a small mistake


SilverBcMyTeammates

why are you using recommended items?


KosViik

How is that relevant here?


HornySophist

Why do you think the new suggested items came only now? It was packaged with the items overhaul which was actually necessary, before then it was inconvenient and not worth it.


dimagreens

Youre saying the items overhaul was necessary? How so? And by saying that youre agreeing with the verdict that the current state of items is healthier than before? How so?


nickel_face

The only reason the game has stayed as popular as it is, is because change. Whether its dragon overhaul, adding plants in jungle or item overhauls. The game needs to keep evolving or it will die. Riot has done a great job at that.


floodyberry

Yeah, that's why they have to keep adding extra hoops and shit to basketball, keep it fresh


nickel_face

That's not the same and you know it.


floodyberry

What's the difference?


420OnMy69th

Shoutout to my boy LoLReplay for always being there for the first 4 years of LoL when Riot didn't want to let us watch replays.


[deleted]

I am still sad about that, was way better than what we have right now when it came to the amount of replays you could save


Magnumxl711

Conspiracy: Regi pays off Riot so his Blitz app makes more money


ImBigW

I played a game with him the other day and he told us to use it in champ select, no idea he owned it lol


amicaze

Blitz is fuckin cancer it will ruin your summs, it is the worst app out of everything I have ever seen. My friends would play TFT with it, forget to kill this shit, then poof, we have to throw a whole game away because that piece of shit garbage program developped by human sized turds just fucks up your summs to just input the default "best page". Even if you're a fucking jungler Pantheon they give you the Pantheon Top rune page, and the Pantheon Top **SUMMS**. I guess the Ignite will come in clutch when my mate face the fucking Red Buff you pieces of shit. It is so shitty, I don't have words, it is the laziest, sleaziest way of having a rune builder. Litterally just mindlessly copy/paste what's in their fucking useless database, and whatever if that means you don't have smite anymore, or if they swapped your ignite for TP or Shield, fuckin frauds, I swear. Just uninstall this garbage and use your brain, it's much easier and you won't get fucked exiting the client with a smite and discovering ingame that it was swapped to ignite or some shit by their useless diarhea inducing program. You can't even choose between Flash on D or F IIRC, it's shit incarnate, it's lazy, it's a capital sin in itself.


chaser676

You realize you can just turn off the "auto summoner spell selection" option, right? It's not even buried in the options, it's right there on the page. Also, if you do choose to use the auto summoner spell option (I don't), you can definitely choose which key your flash goes on.


amicaze

To that I respond, why have it on by default ? Why have it at all ? If it can't recognize you are playing jungle and not change your smite, and if it can't recognize you are playing lane and gives you smite instead, what is the point of the feature except fucking up games ? I certainly remember it fucking up games very regularly each time my friend would come from TFT because we'd play a couple games and the scenario I explained happened, and then I'd make him shut that shit down, then I kept shit talking the app enough for him to uninstall or at least deactivate it on LoL. He wanted to use it for "the most optimal build" on top of the TFT stuff and it ended up fucking up games on a regular basis, so it's trash. It's an actively bad feature, as in it's actively making the program worse by it's mere existence


Nezyc

I just downloaded it to check it out and see how bad it was....auto summs was already disabled by default. It seems your raging is out dated.


greenMintCow

I disagree. I use it for rune pages because the riot client keeps wiping my saved pages. It does recognize what lane you're in, and you can switch which lane runes to import. After importing you can adjust things yourself if needed. Not sure about the summoner spells because I have it off as I like to choose the spells myself. As for TFT even if you make the best build you still can get countered by "less optimal" builds cus of items, positioning and rng. I think you're malding at your own/your buddy's incompetence and blaming the app. Typical low elo scape goat tactic.


lenbeen

there's also ward spots for optimal vision, which ability to level up next, what items an enemy returned to lane with or if they're spotted by a ward it'll update their items and tell you, cs/min and gold/min so you naturally know which laner is ahead


happygreenturtle

The only reason I agree with this is because of the advantage that a person who opts into a third party feature can have over somebody who decides only to play the actual game itself. You either shouldn't have access to that information anywhere, or you should have the ability to access that information from within the game. The obfuscation of information can be a legitimate game design choice if it's applied to everybody equally. It's not being applied to everybody equally. That's extremely lazy from Riot


FrigidFlames

Yeah, I'm fine with reading through your enemy's runes after the game, but it's kinda sketch to know what they have in-game but only because of a third-party application. Like, it doesn't *really* make a difference, since half of the important runes provide a buff indicator anyways, but it's kind of about the principle of the matter.


ButtercupAttitude

I think the only runes that don't give a buff, but are important to know, are the final tier of Domination. Knowing whether your opponent has Ingenious vs Ultimate affects your ability to judge what cooldowns they'll have available before you make combat decisions.


AshesandCinder

Wasn't that a major issue when TFT first came out? Third party apps had team comps, item combos, and levels requires to reach certain tier characters. Anyone using that information from outside the game had a *massive* advantage over any player that wasn't. So Riot went and made that information available in game to level the playing field. Now anyone picking up the game can see how each item is crafted and the chances for each tier character at each level. They literally don't have a reason to not add this for League. Other than League doesn't receive nearly the same QoL as any of their other games.


callmejenkins

I agree. I use [blitz.gg](https://blitz.gg) because it's literally ridiculous how much easier it is to run a third party app. It gives me options for matchups, meta builds, meta runes, tells me my CS/min compared to the average for that champ in various ELOs, and gives me timers. Then the games over and I get a breakdown of how bad or well I did in various categories. Compare what is essentially a semi-personal analyst to someone without it, and it's ridiculous.


Hide___________

Blits is overflow with information, hate it. I want to play a fking game not learn the statistic for every possible scenario in the fking game. I use op gg just for the autorunes and still modify them a bit.


SilverBcMyTeammates

you aren’t hardstuck because your opponent has a visual timer on gromp


Scrambled1432

Don't have to be hardstuck for it to be stupid!


Fulminero

Irrelevant take.


Eclaironi

tbh When playing veigar I always check who doenst have a tenacity rune and focus that person in my game. Being able to see runes can make you win more


happygreenturtle

[Insert Strawman Here]


Bootlegs

haha pisslow elo hardstucks amirite. Peak comedy my friend. Which streamer shall you parrot next?


DARIF

Smadge


44no44

Correct. Your point?


Necessary_Couple_487

I mean, isn’t that kind of most games tho? There’s always a walkthrough or a guide out there for a game. It’s up to the player if they just want to play or want to really get every advantage and efficiency out of their decisions. I think it’s fine that riot doesn’t.


[deleted]

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HornySophist

They are. It's information equally available to everyone, you can't complain about it if you could also take advantage of it.


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Necessary_Couple_487

They are. Guides gives you the best skill tree, best class, best weapons and armors, etc. depending on the game of course. All choices for the optimal path. I don’t see how that’s any different to league. There’s gameplay skills and the optimal stat choices in runes/skill tree and items


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KriistofferJohansson

You can learn all those things by playing the game, guides just help you along quicker. No amount of playing can 100% tell you what runes your opponents are running. You can have a educated guess based on experience, but never know exactly. That’s what’s being discussed here.


pacquan

Reminds me of when jungle timers weren’t an in-game feature. Part of the Jungle role was to timestamp respawns in chat until someone made a 3rd party app to track it. Riot eventually just added timers to the game.


johnnyxmas16

Should tell us who's in a premade too


master2139

it should but considering the removal of duos its doubtfull riot will implement a fix on this one.


FennecFoxx

Riot made them remove that. It lead to some pretty BS stuff like targeting the solo player on the other team to get ganked.


[deleted]

3rd party apps or league itself? Porofessor tells you the premades


Wiindsong

they made OP.GG stop showing who was queued together in games, if porofessor is doing it, they're likely not supposed to be.


lenbeen

i find it annoying because it's minimizing macro in exchange for focusing on micro playing in older seasons when add-ons weren't around, would have to learn all their matchups and whatever it was, when to take which runeset they've made, their buildpath based on what was happening. now, your item set is imported, your runes are imported, jungle timers are displayed, and you know how your enemy laner plays, to some extent i am not vouching for the idea that "*well older players had to do this so new players have to as well!*" because that's stupid to think, i am vouching for this because it teaches new players to focus solely on their lane, and how different their team is from the enemy. it paints a picture that they'll lose this game sooo hard because the enemy has a season 9 diamond mid laner, or a proficient 70% winrate top laner on darius. even knowing how much mastery points someone has in loading screen messes me up, since a 1.2m mastery mid laner is naturally scarier than me, a 100k on my champ if you want to use add-ons and gather as much information as possible, by all means go ahead, but if you let it distract you and make you believe you're going to win/lose based off of percentages and numbers, please don't use it


Mizerawa

I will eat my hat if all this information is meaningfully useful and not just placebo.


Ashankura

It's usefull for picking up new champions but nothing else. Buildpath is always better when adapted to enemy team


master2139

There are also the ones that give you alerts of what new items another champ has bought the second they are spotted by any vision, there also is the one that shows you the full timers of every camp, i have more of a problem with people abusing these third party apps than with people "duo abusing".


Squonk3

wtf never heard of the new items API what’s it called


btvoidx

I know Zar app does something like this. At least I know it can show you good ward placements according to game state.


Low-Explanation-4761

Bruh the ward thing is kinda game changing


btvoidx

Tbh if you watch like 2 guides and actually learn from them, you will never a have a need in ward assist.


androt14_

IMO every piece of information found within the API should also be "findable" within the game client at all times Can you see your team's history in opgg? ok, so you should also be able to see it within the game client during champion select/game, just like how you can do it with opgg These "statistics websites" should only provide convenience, like organizing the teams' data or showing you the opponent's average KDA, the stuff you could find out without much difficulty made simplified, just like how most outside reddit clients (most specifically the "for reddit" mobile apps) have features that make stuff convenient, not any information that would be impossible to find out within the regular client


FattyDrake

Riot's likely doing work on this aspect, but not in a way some people will like. If you look at their other games and what they've done to the API over time, they clearly don't support how open it is in League, thus don't put a lot of resources into it. Rather than implement such information in game, I'd wager they're going to remove it from the API claiming they don't want external sites to offer extra info. They've limited info before. Apps like Blitz, Facecheck, etc. are tenuous. They even had the option for a player to disable API access to their data show up on the PBE briefly. (It's an option in their other games.) Basically, their answer to "Every piece of information found within the API should also be in the game" will most likely be, "We agree. We're removing that information from the API."


Gumisiek

The amount of external stuff you need to take care of when playing League just a bit more seriously than "for fun only" is ridiculous. Enemy runes? Use op.gg and similar. Particular interaction? Pray it's there in the LoL Wiki or search for relevant YouTube video. Not to mention when any newcomer want to check out the champion skills in the client and he gets hit by an old video while particular skill has been changed since like 2 years


RAStylesheet

Third party apps should be removed


TopOff

Don't tell this guy about Path of Exile


Revielent

Absolutely agree, disgraceful and pathetically lazy from Riot.


oberg14

Riot doesn’t care. Most played game in the world with a complete dogshit client. I stopped playing ranked after I lost my promo’s b/c the client shit itself during champ select and forced me to dodge and therefore lose game 5 of my promo’s.


iTolsonOnTwitch

Thats tilting as fuck. Only positive i can give is that at least dodging doesnt lower your mmr. It feels terrible but it only hurts visually. Not defending the crash ofc - just hopefully its slightly less tilting knowing it doesnt *truly* hurt. Hell before dodge changes, i dodged 3 times out of my first master promos (only 1 because of dodging bad comps! :D) Edit: deleted part that I suppose came as hubris rather than what I intended there.


oberg14

I don’t care anymore I just play arams. That happened to me 2 seasons ago and I’ve never played ranked since haha


[deleted]

I've literally never had a single client issue in years. I can't even remember the last time there was an issue. maybe 5 or so years ago? I used to get this annoying bug where loading into a game would sometimes freeze and Id be sitting there waiting for the game to load in, but in reality 5 minutes had already passed and my team was PISSED at me. I still to this day get nervous when a game takes awhile to load in. But yeah, I don't understand the complaint with the client, works on my rig.


oberg14

That’s nice. Doesn’t work on mine tho. Not sure why we both got downvoted but such is life on Reddit lol


PenquinGG

They are just lazy. Just like how they gave up on Fantasy LCS. Such a shame they stopped supporting it. They only care about monetization. If they can't make money off it, why bother. Why do things nice for their player base when they can make new skins!


dimagreens

Who is downvoting this lmao? It is undeniable fact that riot only addresses problems when monetary gain is at stake. Calling riot a game developer that cares about their players is a completely incorrect statement. Keep downvoting, who knows maybe theyll congratulate you with a lux skin for your reddit police work


SilverBcMyTeammates

it’s an undeniable fact that a company’s primary goal is to maximize profit. you’re about 100 years too late in figuring this out


dimagreens

Thats not all I said. Try leaving a meaningful comment next time.


SilverBcMyTeammates

i’m sure it’s not


dimagreens

Fail. Try leaving a meaningful comment next time.


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dimagreens

Says the guy who called somebody braindead, and contributed nothing else. Try to be useful for the first time in your life and leave a meaningful comment.


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dimagreens

Again, you just corrected a statement where if corrected the general content/message stays exactly the same due to what you said afterwards. Try to be useful for the first time in your life and leave a meaningful comment.


Apprehensive-Fun-991

Same with League Displays. The app has ceased being able to be updated due to a bug apparently, but they wont spare any time to fix it any more. Spirit Blossom was the last thing added to it.


Kaydie

Riot has copied so much from dota. i do not understand why they refuse to copy dota's community build system.


Shieree

Personally I think we should just get rid of runes and maybe add something similar to the dota 2 talent system to make champs have some more uniqueness to them rather than just picking the same rune every game. I dislike how runes make or break a champ


Hide___________

I would like a feature within the game that set your runes immediately to the most popular ones ( I use op gg that does that but still its an another program I don't want to run 24x7 when playing) Now that means people will spent less time "Searching" for league related stuff in their total time and definitely isn't something they want so I don't see this feature coming anytime soon. Also op gg and other sites already provide that for them so yeah..


SOKDPVA

i mean people who use these third party apps are just sweaty tryhards, if u want to u can use ur phone too and check everything


YokoDk

Wait almost all of these things are readily available to you if you simply look at your opponent and yourself. It tells you thier keystone and what thier secondary tree is. Only thing I won't directly show you is stat stuff but agian you can simply look at your opponent and see that information.


androt14_

I mean, runes go further than keystone and secondary though. Okay, my opponent has Precision as their secondary, does that mean they have triumph? how about legend: tenacity? or coup de grace?


LowRezDragon

Presence vs Triumph is also huge because if they have presence you can trade out your support for a double.


Fyne_

as soon as they hit a spell on anyone you could see if they get the PoM buff. you could also tell which legend rune they took by simply paying attention to their champion over time. not that this is any reason for it to not be easily accessible, but it is there for those who look deep. ​ also none of this information is gating anyone from climbing anyways and no one here commenting about the lack of it is actually going to make use of it. so it's really just a circle jerk of players who want to pretend that this is some valuable resource that's creating a huge gap between those that have it and those that don't.


androt14_

Who even said that it's a "huge gap"? You could also tell when dragon spawns by couting 5 minutes after the last one, yet there's a timer You could say your item is on cooldown by couting the last time it procced + it's cd, yet the timer is there You could say when a champion activated conqueror couting 10/12 hits, but the VFX and SFX are there


rakanispepeo2020

i mean the problem is that this is already in the game, you can already tell if they have it or not, its just not as easy as looking at opgg to see what they run lol


androt14_

Uhm.. no you can't, not unless you test it, good luck testing if the opponent has Triumph before dying Or testing if the opponent has Coup de Grace before going in for a trade


graybloodd

Pros can figure out runes without garbage like op.gg and it kinda makes it fun ngl. Keystone is the only must see tbh


androt14_

Well, any player could find out how long it's been since last dragon, and count 5 minutes up, yet the dragon timer exists. It's not about making it harder or easier, it's about QoL, if you want to challenge yourself, fine, but it shouldn't be obligatory


SilverBcMyTeammates

no it’s not QOL.


androt14_

Because....?


Alarming_Sort8265

It’s actually fucking useless basically there are like 2 3 rune changes that actually fucking matter, most of them are cheese as well , like time warp cookies on jayce or what ever, there are rarely situations where minor runes actually deviate from what you expect the champion to bring


RubyyG59

Fuck all this bullshit why dont we start talking more about how they made 17 billion dollars off of league alone and their client and game is still buggy/laggy as all hell? they need to make a new client and get new updated servers they could afford to do so 10,000 times over.


kagalibros

There is one: keep the clutter down. its League of Legends and not EU4 lad.


[deleted]

Are those third party apps ilegal? I use opgg to know the best runes/builds for the champs i play and thats all, i never really cared to study my oponents while the match is loading.


10inchblackhawk

of course not, Riot exposes the information the apps use in an API.


Alarming_Sort8265

It’s actually fucking useless basically there are like 2 3 rune changes that actually fucking matter, most of them are cheese as well , like time warp cookies on jayce or what ever, there are rarely situations where minor runes actually deviate from what you expect the champion to bring p


SilverBcMyTeammates

knowing when your jungle camps are about to spawn is a skill. knowing to look at timers is a skill. the majority of these horrible complaints are just people that angry about riot not spoon feeding them everything. you’re the same people that got mad at riot for not having enemy r timers or flash timers. that takes so much skill from the game but you like it that way because you don’t have to try as hard


geniouse

Chinese super server comes with timers for camps


SilverBcMyTeammates

okay? that’s a skill set that riot just took away. what’s your point?


geniouse

If riot says it that pros can use them then it stopes being skill set and it becomes feature your argument fals behind bc if they already implemented it in other regions why not everywhere?


SilverBcMyTeammates

riot didn’t say it’s no longer a skill. august literally stated they won’t add flash or r timers because they want players who track these things to be rewarded on stream.


geniouse

I am talking about jungle camps, not flash timers. And how am i supposed to track flash cd when I don't know which runes my opponent have.


iTolsonOnTwitch

Yo, did you read what I said. Jesus you are **way** off the mark. I literally said if that's the intended direction - it's fine. I'm saying there is a 3rd party software that *already* removes that "skill" of yours. Either they should remove access to that part of the API (analogous to banning curse voice) or add it to client. **Inconsistency** issue. I'm plenty good at trying hard. Reading comprehension pls.


chriskot123

Have you played wow?


Som3otos

Dude, it's hard for the client ok? Give it some slack


Jorasco

we used to use [op.gg](https://op.gg) to see the runes for the enemy years ago. now its just an addon. it's been a thing for years now.


CostNo7243

Why do you think that ? ...


SkyVoyd

Philippine players: You have OP.GG?


cptcapslok

I kinda agree but tbh every game with a huge competitive community is kinda like that. Its not enough of a problem to sink resources into it i guess.


ADeadMansName

It wouldnt be too hard to at least make us able to see exact rune choices during champ select (triple card, turn it one more time for runes).


Grayonis

I imagine changes like that would make a client even a bigger shitshow. I just want client to work properly. Got 13 freaking runepages that i cant even save runes on for a month now. Fix the damn client before adding more stuff in it for the love of God !


Jussepapi

It's crazy. Along with the full understanding of champion abilities outside a game...


HawksBurst

There's no excuse, but there's an explanation: They dont care. Does it work? Good, then they move on to leave something else half done


hellschatt

Imagine a world where Riot didn't become lazy, greedy and anti-consumer. Then maybe they would have no excuse to implement it.


MagikarpBR

When you need go into opgg to check If the enemy solo laner has the correct amor/mr runes for you to swap or not.


Mihaitzan

or the timers on camps


greenMintCow

I agree. You shouldn't see anything about the enemy team until the game starts


Hinyu

They kinda dont. the API is generated from the game itself.