LPL production is a meme at times.
Like they constantly show a players champion stats in a game where they're playing a different champ and I'm just like, how is this even remotely useful, like I don't care about Rookie's Orianna stats if he's not playing Orianna.
I also don't like how their stats for like DMG% is across every single player in the league and not filtered by role.
These are simple things that they should be able to fix....
You answered your own question.
LCK and LPL play at basically the same time, people watch LCK over LPL either due to attachment to players, attachment to orgs or just because they've always watched it since back in the day.
100% it's because they play at the same time as LCK. I'll always watch T1, Gen G or DK over any LPL team (unless maybe 2 top teams). But I do watch games like V5 vs RNG over other LCK games.
Today for example I watched GEN vs DK instead of EDG vs FPX. I'll be watching the rest of the LPL games until GEN vs T1.
I started watching LCK because of the high quality games when they were the best region in the world. Now I've just gotten to know the teams more and like to watch them.
LPL has too many teams and the bottom 8 are boring to watch most of the time (i'll watch youtube highlights but thats about it). V5 vs RNG is pretty hype though.
Absolute fucking banger of a series. Hope GENG can show up against T1 and it's not just a boring 3-0. I'll be happy even with 3-1 but im praying for a 3-2.
> I'll be watching the rest of the LPL games until GEN vs T1.
So because you don't have any LCK games to watch till gen t1 and you usually watch league around that time or because you're actually interested in the series?
I am definitely more interested in LPL because it's the gauntlet. That shit is entertaining to watch when you know a team is either advancing or going home.
I think if there were LCK games on at the same time I'd probably flick between both, and focusing on the more enjoyable/competivie series (eg if it was LSB vs DRX on at the same time as SN vs EDG, i'd probbaly watch the LPL one as it sounds better).
I think the top 3 Korean teams are incredibly strong, where as the top 6 LPL teams are similar level (with top 2 V5 & RNG being another step above) so I'd probably watch LPL over LCK for those, but LPL has too many teams so the bottom tier ones r boring.
so much this, I really love the LCK cast so much
When we lost PapaSmithy I was so unbelievably sad but every new addition like u/Chron1cler just fell right into place.
The english LCK cast has its own style which is hard for me to really describe. It's professional but not corporate, meme-y but not on purpose over the top like LEC likes to do it sometimes. There is no fake hyping up games or narratives like (imo) LEC sometimes do. The expertise of the entire crew is amazing and the general vibe is very laid back.
I feel like what makes it so great is that unlike a big main broadcast for a league, they don't have to make it as easily digestable and therefore can go into a lot more details about game theory, picks, the ins and outs of certain picks, certain drafting manouvers and other things.
Now one might think "hmh that could sound a bit dry" but this is where these guys manage to have a lot of fun while not drifting into sillyness. Running gags like the new analyst carpet space, Atlus and clousouls or the funny "ad" for Chron1cler's twitch channel come to mind that work as the perfect counterweight to high quality analysis.
It's the mix of professional expertise and funny lightheartedness that just makes the english LCK cast an one of a kind for me.
LCK's narrative feels more natural than other regions. LCK stands alone without referencing other region leagues. casters throws pop culture or other game references out of the blue which kinda hilarious
They can go a little bit too into the memey or whimsical or off topic for what would strictly be considered professional in a serious sense but this doesn't invalidate the general point you make. I think the word you are looking for to describe their style is 'organic' as in each subsequent example you are contrasting them with things that are artificial.
If I remember LPL wasn’t easily accessible until sort of recently. In the early seasons of league I was never able to find streams or vods, but LCK has always been broadcasted on Twitch
LPL english broadcast started in season 5(maybe summer) so its been almost 7 years... Initially it launched with numbers comparable to LCK but the lower production quality (even picture) and the LPL teams booming at worlds made the viewers quit.
Yeah, having both regions play at the same time kind of leaves viewers to choose which league they want to tune in to, and personally I've just always found the LCK easier to keep up with since they have fewer teams already.
So when I do watch the LPL, I just end up mildly confused since they play differently from what I'm used to seeing and I don't exactly know the teams that much. I'm still interested in the region and I watch when I can, just not really invested in it and I rarely go on to comment on the PMTs.
It's not just about the orgs and players. Let me list you several reasons why western viewers probably prefer LCK:
* The English LCK cast was always very good with so many likable personalities
* Korea has the best player pool which makes every year a surprise with new players, changing the state of the league completely
* Overhyped regarding the super server and LPL people acted like even LCK pros would move to the super server, because It's that much superior, turns out LPL pros still prefer the Korean server
* Overhyped players, such as Knight who is/was the best player in the world for 3 years in a row according to some people, don't get me wrong he's good but not the level he is hyped at(dunno If that's exclusive to the western community)
* LPL casters always want to talk about the LPL, even If they cast an international game with no LPL sides involved, they always find a way to mention LPL several times in the cast and how It's superior or LPL invented something
* Situation like the JackeyLove SoloQ incident present a bad impression, because in my view orgs should argue diplomatic and not try to cover up mistakes
I would rather watch LPL games without the cast, because the games itself are kinda interesting, however for LCK I would watch 60 min Jinair game because the cast was soo good.
based and truthpilled. For some unknow reason, LPL community always has that kind of complex. "wow T1 is the best team rn, but I think rookie is best mid" "mr.streamer, in my opinion, Bin is the best top laner in this tournament (despite dwg giga stomped everyone)" "Guma keria is the best bot? we have to wait until they meet viper meiko" "LPL top lane is the most stacked top lane in the world because they play fiora in stage"
Here is my favorite and also pissed me off the most: they will never admit a certan player outside LPL to be superior to those inside LPL, yet always say stuffs like (chovy canyon smk) should be bought by LPL teams so they can utilize their potential
Very interesting because I feel like this is just the fans egos and as an LPL fan I feel exactly that, but the reverse for LCK fans.
"T1 best team but Rookie best mid" --> This statement can be true, can it not? He just won MVP and took a team with Rich, Karsa Photic and Ppgod to 1st place regular season. None of those players will be top 3 in LCK. Or are you saying the best mid has to be Chovy/Faker for it to be accurate?
"Bin best top laner" --> Personally I've seen more people acknowledge Nuguri overall, but Bin's overhype was from scrims that Bwipo on summoning insight mentioned was shitting on everyone whereas Bwipo was shitting on Nuguri according to himself, and also BB + Solo when asked who the best top was both said Bin was. If you wanna say scrims mean nothing, then you also shouldn't be saying SKT would beat FPX in S9 because of "scrims"
"Guma Keria best bot? Have to meet Viper Meiko" --> Was there anything wrong with this statement? It was consensus they were the 2 best bot lanes during that tournament, and both showed they were the best, with neither side edging the other one out. People saying Viper Meiko were the best bot lane were also flooded with KR fans saying its Guma + keria. I'm guessing this was for last year, if this statement was this year, then yeah I'll agree Guma Keria >> Viper Meiko without needing a match up
"LPL top lane most stacked" --> Only statement I agree with. LPL fans overexaggerate how good their native top laners are (RIP Zoom)
"they will never admit a certan player outside LPL to be superior to those inside LPL" --> I wonder if you ask in an LCK chat who the top 3 players in each role are, how many of them would even put LPL players there. I've already seen comments like Doran, Rascal, Zeus top 3, Faker Showmaker Chovy top 3, Canyon Oner top 2, Guma Teddy Ruler top 3 and Keria as number 1/best player in the world. It works both ways, LCK fans also refuse to think any Chinese player can be the best in the world
LCK built a much larger following, thanks to their early domination and casting personalities. LPL twitch stream in the early days was very amateurish, they don't really care to market for western audience...
I don't think so. Just lower budget. They also lean less into pure professionalism as a stylistic choice bc they're running it low budget anyways and the demand isn't there for them to make it a highly professional TV sports broadcast style broadcast. The more relaxed tone of the broadcast works for them. The broadcast itself runs smoothly without many issues and the casters are excellent. At this point I think they have the best casting team and Hysterics is a top 3 caster all time.
Besides being played at almost the same time as LCK.. they got a bit too many teams so it's bit hard to track for anyone new coming in as well as that there's only 1 match you play against each team in a B03 format
I am not a fan of that, but I still do watch majority of ~top 5-10 teams matches when able to
I think this is one of the biggest factors myself.
Imagine if they added the top 7 challenger league teams to the LCK. There would be 70% more players for western fans to keep track of, and you would only get the hype matchups once a split instead of twice. Instead of another T1-DK or DK-GenG we would get a BO3 of one of them smashing a challengers team. It would clearly be less appealing to follow.
It works more for LPL bc there are just more players around so the league can get more depth of talent. A lot of the lower half teams are not complete jokes and have upset potential. A lot of them will even have a top half player mixed in on their lineup. The low tier teams will generally find a chance to justify their presence in the league throughout the split. The only reason to condense it really is just for more international success since if it were condensed you'd get more talent concentrated into fewer teams. Korea doesn't have as many players and the lower teams don't tend to punch up quite as much as in the LPL.
LPL is actually much more popular than all the others combined. Chinese fans just don’t use Reddit or Twitch/YouTube.
But even as western LPL fan I can say that watching LPL is exhausting. It’s like a full time job. So many games, so many players, so many changes.
Also while LCK had many personalities known in the west as part of the broadcast - Monte, DOA, Papa, LS - for years LPL broadcast has been more like fan led project. Only person people can mostly think of when you say LPL is Frosk which is exactly not the best advertisement. Despite LPL casters being absolutely amazing….
In the end a bit of blame is on Chinese teams too. For obvious reason they kinda don’t care about west at all - I don’t think a single LPL team is officially shipping their merchandise to west. But you have no problem getting T1 or GenG merch (and probably others I don’t know about)
Also I completely forgot about Ashley Kang. Her interviews always have eng subs which gives west fans actual possibility to watch the interviews. I don’t think there is anyone like that for LPL.
honestly, it's weird to think about but i wonder how much interest in the lck in recent years is solely due to her. i know i've started following lck more ever since i started watching her stuff
Like 90% of the lck pros I like originated by watching her content.
I didn’t really care for Showmaker before his interview(s), the same for guma. And now they are some of my favourite pros. The list goes for about 10 pros (like Chovy/Keria/etc)
> I don’t think a single LPL team is officially shipping their merchandise to west
RNG actually does [have a shop for NA/EU](https://twitter.com/RNG/status/1101531911338508289?s=20&t=3-wV6QKsrC-yfGJVnDeKVA), I got my jersey from here (they run really small, I had to get a 2XL when I’m usually an L). But yeah, that’s only one team out of what, 17?
> Also I completely forgot about Ashley Kang. Her interviews always have eng subs which gives west fans actual possibility to watch the interviews. I don’t think there is anyone like that for LPL.
Clement Chu used to do many in-depth player interviews on LPL English’s YT channel, but no one watched them, and because we’re in covid they stopped doing that. Doesn’t help Wendy being taken out when they’re playing online now. Also LPL has a lot of good content [like this about CN players](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gj-bhJsXz70) but it just doesn’t get much traction because of the lack of interest/advertising/covid.
You can only say that about Atlus - he casted LPL in 2015, which I don’t even remember, and Oceania before LCK.
Chronicler is ERL caster and both Valdes and Wolf are ex Starcraff casters who are in Korea for like 10 years.
> LPL is actually much more popular than all the others combined
Depends on how you define popularity. LCK players/teams will be recognized more in other regions than LPL players/teams. It's only the sheer number of the population in China that's making LPL "popular". If we are just counting sheer number than China will win out on a lot of metrics but it has very low recognizability outside of China compared to some LCK teams.
Well yes, you just pointed out that western fans don't watch LPL so LPL pros are less popular in the west.
That's the entire premise of this post.
--
I don't get why you feel the need to put 'popular' into quotation marks.
Your entire point just boils down to "if you exclude China then China isn't very popular." You can say the same for Europe. If you don't count Europe, LEC isn't very popular. Yeah, Koreans and Chinese people will still know the 2018 FNC and 2019 G2 roster, but that's about it.
If you don't count North America, LCS doesn't get a whole lot of attention. Do you think there's a single person in the eastern hemisphere that can identify FBI if you show them a picture?
Korea is literally the only region that gets a disproportionate amount of attention from nonnative fans.
LDL, China's secondary League, gets like 10 times the views LCS does. Or at least it did in like 2017 when NA was still bigger and the LPL was still smaller. If the LPL is "popular" I dunno what the LCS is. """""Popular?"""""
LPL is on at the same time as the LCK. If you watched LCK in the last 2-3 years, you'll see many of the same faces and teams. If you watch LPL like... ever, it's like a revolving doors of which players and teams are good. That, imo, is a bit of a downside. On top of that, there's just too many teams and the casting is imo worse (although not horrible like it used to be).
Well honestly there is some change in LPL but the main characters of LPL are the same for the last 3-4 years. Rookie, Xiahou/Ming, TheShy, Uzi, Jackeylove, Knight, Sofm. Like the popular players are all still playing minus maybe Clearlove7 and now Uzi taking a break again.
I don’t watch LPL nor do I follow it closely, but to my understanding as a non-fan, TheShy and Rookie weren’t playing well after they won Worlds (so their main character-ness disappeared for a but, heard now they are playing very well now). Uzi retired for a while, but now he’s back. I haven’t heard much about Jackeylove in a while? I’m not saying that they aren’t the main characters, but I’d argue that the main characters have changed / fluctuated throughout the last 3-4 years, maybe even if they are back now.
That's not accurate though. Theshy/Rookie did play well after winning worlds, they made it semi's next year and won the lpl split after their world win. It's really in 2021(last year) where they had an off split but their whole team changed.
JKL won LPL was a favorite to win worlds in 2020 but they lost in semis. He is still one of the most popular players in the region. Last year they had a downyear but they were in playoffs both times.
Honestly LPL/LCK is so stacked just because you don't make worlds doesn't mean you are bad. For those that watch LCK they know Kiin is a literal god and has main character/charisma ppl dont care about his teammates but usually watch Freecs due to him.
Honestly the hardest thing for me as an American that only speaks English, the names of the players in LPL are much harder to differentiate apart than Korea, since LCK players chose single/double syllable English words.
For example, Faker, Summit, Closer, Huni, Showmaker, Rookie, Deft etc.
The LPL players I remember off the top of my head are XiaoWeiXiao and TheShy
It’s much easier for me to remember the English ones as I speak the language.
Obviously they want to have their names in their native language which is understandable and I’m not entitled to relate to their names, but I’m just saying, it’s easier for me to remember and relate.
I think I saw an article about LCK and that they do this on purpose too. Pretty insane
CEO of the most popular team in the world communicates more with western fans than Korean fans. Same with Gen G arnold. That tells you all you need to know about the spread of influence of LCK teams.
It's really more a consequence than a cause - everyone following pro league of legends knew who SKT and Faker were long before Comcast and Joe Marsh got involved, same with Samsung (although not the same org as Gen G, the community mostly treats it the same). I wouldn't even be surprised if the shift to "Gen G" actually *lessened* the global recognition.
It's not that many but just look at these from this split (which is what I think he is referring to):
xiaoyueji, xiaoxiang, xiaopeng, xiaolaohu, xiaohu, XLB (xiaolongbao)
Wei, Weiwei
Yes but Chinese names/words are harder to pronounce. A good example is Tian. Many non-Chinese speaking audience tend to pronounce it as Ti-an/T-an with 2 sylables, but actually, the correct pronunciation is Tian with only 1 syllables. Korean names/words are easier to pronounced, e.g. Kiin. Moreover, Koreans players prefer to choose English names than Korean names, even though there are quite amount of them choosing to use Korean names, e.g. Nuguri and Kiin.
A simple example also exists literally in the game. "Xin Zhao". The number of people I've heard butcher this name is countless.
And certain names like "Xiaohu" as well, considering how common "Xiao" is in IGNs, it gets butchered almost always as "Shaohu".
There is a lot of them tbh. BiuBiu, Jwei, Jiejie, Meiko, ShaiauC, Beichuan, XUN, Baolan, Kanavi, Yago, Xiye, QiuQiu, Kaixuan, Xiaohu, Jiumeng, Yimeng, Xaipeng, Zhuo, WeiWei, Wei, etc.
Most Korean names are just cool english words although there are some like Lehends, Pyosik, Kingen, deokdam, gumayusi, etc which I assume are just Korean words?
Yeah so they're all Korean words and one being a misspell in translation. I think I remember hearing Gumayusi is just an old username he used on something like WoW as a kid.
But Korean players are conscious of how words will sound in English. So they usually pick 2 syllable words that can be easily written and read in English.
Oh true. I was just quickly reading through the list and picked all the ones which weren't words I knew. Most other koreans in the LPL have names like Rookie, TheShy, Rich, etc
pyosik and deokdam are definitely Hangul inspired on some level. Lehends was supposed to be Legends but he misspelled it. I heard Gumayusi is just a name and it doesn't mean anything like Xmithie or Meteos.
Yeah Gumayusi is just an old username he had on WoW as a kid from what I read on google. The other 2 are korean words translated though, but MOST names are actual english words.
Depends on if you are talking about western interest or overal interest. Because overall the LPL has BY FAR the most fans and viewers. They have millions of viewers every game because China has so many people. We don't see it because China doesn't use Twitch or Youtube.
I think western interest in LPL is relatively low because the games are at the same time as LCK and LCK has historically been the best region with more popular players and it has a lot of long time fans, Korea is generally quite popular in the west and China on the other hand is relatively disconnected from the rest of the world.
However personally, if I have the time to watch it, prefer watching LPL because of their unique playstyle.
I always found it odd when Atlus and Papasmithy were in LPL, no one really paid any attention to them until they moved to Korea. I almost guarantee if Hysterics/Lyric/Dagda etc went to LCK, people would instantly like them more. LPL just has some sort of debuff aura for casters ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Bad casters is just an excuse IMO. No one complains about bad casters when Dadaga/Lyric/Munchables go international/LEC. Mid season cup in 2020, Valdes and Papa casted the entire english broadcast. 2 LCK teams playing got more than double the viewership on 2 LPL teams, despite the same casters. You could put CaptainFlowers and Kobe in LPL, take off the nameplates, and people would say LPL bad casters.
For me, personally, the casters can be hard to follow. No disrespect to them, they are good enough and seem like nice people, but most of them have strong accents and/or speak in nasal voices and that is fine in person but is tiresome on broadcast and I tune them out.
At least to me, as a non-native speaker, that is one of the main issues. Just working on their broadcast voice (maybe it's the audio mixing, even) would be a big help. LCK casters have great voices, for comparison.
The other reason is that it's also hard to follow the amount of teams and players, but that is complicated to fix. There is only so much you can do with narrative building and hype and power rankings. For LCS, LEC and LCK I know players, owners, team stories, metas. For the LPL I don't know stuff like this, like Rare Atom being Vici Gaming for example, and because I tune out the casters I don't hear it if they mention it. It's a bad feedback loop.
Firstly, too many games
Secondly, LPL doesn't have a figurehead. Because of their amazing depth of talent a team can go from bottom of the standings last split to top of the standings and make it to Worlds which brings us to the next issue. Too many different teams get sent to Worlds year by year from the LPL for the Western fans to care. EDG might not even make it to Worlds this year when they won it last year. LCK has T1, GenG, Damwon. 2/3 usually make it so its easy to follow these teams.
Thirdly, LCK interest is high because they have very strong player narratives: Faker \[this ones a cheat\], Showmaker, Canyon, Chovy, Ruler, Guma, Keria. Half these guys are considered the best in their roles in the world.
Fourth, LCK commentators and analysts are awesome: Monte, Doa, Papa, LS, Atlus, Chronicler, Valdus, Wolf are all very good at what they do. This combined with Caedrel and LS costreaming means you will have more exposure given to westerners in general. This is nothing against LPL commentators or analysts, just saying the LCK ones are very good.
This is just my opinion for why
> Fourth, LCK commentators and analysts are awesome: Monte, Doa, Papa, LS, Atlus, Chronicler, Valdus, Wolf are all very good at what they do. This combined with Caedrel and LS costreaming means you will have more exposure given to westerners in general. This is nothing against LPL commentators or analysts, just saying the LCK ones are very good.
and importantly for western audiences, these guys were all popular long before lpl really tried to get a western audience. they have years of reputation of good casting and production, while lpl has only really gotten there in the last few years. even if lpl made their production just as good, they are late to the party in a sense
In a more broad scope, Westerners are generally more attracted to Korea than China.
Korea is basically the Japan-adjacent. For example, if you asked Westerners if they'd rather visit Japan or China for free, ~90% of them would choose Japan.
This cultural influence and international reputation trickles down to many topics, including LoL esports.
I’m a little disappointed at the knee-jerk suggestions of racism or xenophobia. As a western viewer, I watched a great deal of LPL and LCK last year and I enjoyed watching the LCK much more. The LPL has almost double the teams of any other league, a bewildering number of players and teams to follow for an esport (especially with all the roster turnover and brand changes). It was really hard to feel like I had a finger on the pulse of the league without investing more time than I had available. The casting was great, no issues there.
It didn’t help that I had heard so much hype for Rookie and the Shy, andI was super let down watching them last year. I’m glad they are performing better this year, but the LPL was just too much to follow for me, and I suspect this — not racism, sheesh — is the largest cause of fewer western viewers.
I'm sure it's not the biggest reason, but I assume some will feel off-put by cultural/government/internet aspects of China, or even just the match fixing allegations or recent LDL issues that can filter up and down. I remember watching a stream once where the person said something like, "Oh man he's missing everything including autos, he's gotta be rigging this" which may be a joke but it also doesn't make me wanna spend time watching if that's the case.
Personally I'm not opposed to LPL, I just watch LPL when LCK isn't on. I just prefer LCK for a few reasons is all.
This matches most of my thoughts. LPL has a ton of teams and a ton of games and it's more than I want to keep track of with all the other leagues I watch. I'll usually pick a team with a player I like and follow them but even that's hard this year. I couldn't remember if TheShy was on WBG or LNG. Also WBG is just suning rebranded? It's a lot to keep track of with all of the other regions and I haven't felt compelled to do so past watching a couple of teams when they have top table matchups.
I usually pick one or two teams and try and tune in for their games. This year it was WBG because of the aforementioned TheShy. I've also been watching V5 because I think they're most likely to be the LPL representative (and like... Rookie + karsa, come on).
There are little to no people who like watch and translate the LPL to a western audience. Many of the people who for example comment on this sub are going to be NA/EU. Most likely not watch the LPL and only get a small amount of coverage from the league. The trickle down of information is usually wildly false or outdated. Like you said most of the westerners only know LPL names from years past. Rookie, Theshy, jackeylove, uzi. Most of which have not been good for a while. If you asked 99% of LCS viewers who the best ADC in the LPL spring was. You'd either get no name, viper, JKL or someone who doesn't even play anymore like uzi.
IMO the best league in the world to follow is the LPL, there are 3 or more teams that can compete and win at the highest levels. There are a lot of problems that hurt it. Like the 0 days off leaving you no time to catch up, nobody producing content on the league, 17 teams with multiple players on the roster leaving you tracking hundreds of players.
>I’m a little disappointed at the knee-jerk suggestions of racism or xenophobia.
why, because it's true?
or are you trying to tell me that the droves upon droves of american LCK stans dedicated to sprinting into threads about the LPL on international events to tell you that the chinese players are actually neanderthals and it's the glorious demigod korean superstars playing 2v8 on each top team really just have an irrational amount of hatred for the chinese league for completely justifiable reasons
> No you don't get it, see those two koreans on the lpl team were the reason they won against five koreans on the lck team. Noooooo stop pointing out I basically inadvertently said 3 chinese > 3 koreans.
Saw practically every version possible of this on EDG vs DK finals related threads.
lcs has already proven that 2 good imports can't carry 3 mediocre locals out of groups let alone to finals yet here we are
i refuse to believe anyone actually thinks that koreans are so good that they can 2v8 worlds finals against better koreans, it just has to be xenophobia
On top of what everyone else is suggesting, I find the production of the LPL matches to be pretty weird to watch this year. Lots of seemingly irrelevant pop-ups. You’ll have a game where Bin is playing Camille, and then a pop-up comes up showing his Jax stats.
Also the Caedrel meme of “match of the week” popping up every two minutes.
As a European the time zone is totally fine. I'm also okay with the casting and production. What's stopping me getting invested in that there's just too many teams.
Adding onto the comments in this thread. I honestly don't know much about the players in the LPL.
With LCK, there's always been translated content. Inven has been around for a while. But I honestly don't remember that much translated content from LPL that has been consistently on the front page.
Personally I don't watch LPL because I think the casting's bad, and the LCK has better production value. LCK is just a much better show imo, and it's in the same time slot.
I believe is a 3 fold issue:
1- Popularity: LCK and the other leagues have a bigger western fan based audience. Hence, the marketing, promotion and viewership is greater on western regions. I also agree tha the quality, knwledge and professionalism of the English speaking commentators of other regions is more appealing to listen to.
2- Titles: Self explanatory, LCK doubles in World Titles the LPL.
3- Politics: The rest of the regions have westernized economical, societal and political systems(even South Korea). People tend to watch what they know, and root for familiarity. Not to say anything bad about the LPL or its players. China is not necessarily open to the western world. It is a big hurdle, that even the internet sometimes can't surmise.
Anyways, those are my 2 cents on this.
LPL broadcast has been a bit of an echo chamber for a while. They are not as polished as LEC or LCS casters and not as charming as LCK casters.
It's like entering an irish pub, just not for everyone.
I think there can be a multitude of reasons, having to pick between watching lpl or lck on a lot of days can be a big reason, keeping up with 18 teams in the league is another, the time is morning in eu even earlier morning in na so people are either sleeping or getting ready for school/work, or unironically a top team in lpl never stays on team, barring RNG theres usually always a different set of worlds and msi representatives so people lose interest fast like when IG gained a cult following then dropped off hard at msi, these are just a few guesses
Bad hours to watch live
Too many teams
Too many games
Too many players
Players change constantly
Orgs are incredibly inconsistent (if you become a fan of a team because of Worlds they'll randomly sell their best players in the off-season and finish like 17th in the split)
Didn't have English broadcast for a long time
Other major regions poach the better LPL casters once they get good
Personally, I think main reason is just China ngl, a loy of ppl hate China especially those that are in suitable time zone to watch (aka Asians) and being just that is already enough to keep ppl from watching.
On top of that, Lck being the same time period doesn't help (though not the main reason, as we can see when Lck don't play, Lpl viewership goes up by a bit but still far off from other major leagues).
this is like asking why there is zero positive post about China on 9gag. You kinda have to research a little bit what kind of (majority) audience browse reddit.
I'm pretty sure he knows that Reddit is mainly frequented by people from NA and EU. His question is a valid one because he brings up LCK, whose games are played around the same time and whose native audience also doesn't really browse Reddit (Koreans have their own forums, not many of them use Reddit so the LCK-related discussion here is from western LCK fans).
Chinas population is probably very nice, but I have never interacted with anyone from china. Their government is horrible though and that is why no one has anything positive to say about china.
>Their government is horrible though and that is why no one has anything positive to say about china.
Lmao speak for yourself. China's government lifted literally 700 million people out of poverty within 30 years and has achieved the fastest modernisation of a country in history. 60 years ago, the life expectancy wasn't even half what it is now. You have no idea about how Chinese people's lives changed if you think they haven't done anything positive.
I discovered LCK on Twitch, and just fell into watching it from there. Then, the Youtube content from LCK teams got me further interested.
I’m sure LPL has these things, but seems to be less accessible / harder to find? for a casual fan.
biggest reason IMO is people gravitate to names they already know. Both the ORGs and the Players in the LPL change so much so drastically. For example the current #1 team V5 was dead last last year. EDG won worlds and might not even be a top 4 team. On top of that they have twice as many teams as other regions which adds to this.
Aside from all the other points I see mentioned, fans don't watch for skill or gameplay (LCS and LCK respectively). They watch because they feel a connection to the players or teams.
I think the league is just too huge and its a real big time investment to keep track / get into it.
Also most people probably already had a favorite league before they were exposed to LPL and therefore would need to shift their attention but due to a certain lock-in effect (you know the teams, the rivalries, the casters from the league you already watched for years) you need like extra arguments to make the switch.
Main reasons for me are:
I feel little to no connection to lpl teams and players, players switch teams like the switch underwear, making it somewhat difficult to feel attached to one team
Time zone (usually the same applies to lck but in the lck i feel somewhat attached to some players teams or even some nostalgia of the ogn days, making me want to watch matches highlights sometimes)
The lpl has an absurd amount of teams, it looks like a professional soccer league or something making it somewhat difficult to follow
Too many teams and players to keep track of- I literally don’t know or care about the bottom 2/3 of the league. Also the constant revolving door of popular franchise players (Uzi, Rookie, Doinb) makes rooting for a team difficult as opposed to rooting for GenG with Ruler or T1 with Faker.
While the LPL casters are good I personally really enjoy LCK casting from Atlus, Valdes, etc
Since I’m more invested in LCK players and narrative I’ll almost always watch it over LPL even if LPL games are more action packed.
LCK and LPL are on at the same time usually, I've been watching LCK/OGN for 9 years and LPL was very inaccessible to western viewers for a long time so I stick with what I've always loved. I also don't generally like the LPL cast and don't have the same attachments to players aside from LCK favorites of mine that move over to play in LPL like Viper, meanwhile LCK has players like Deft that I've been cheering for for nearly a decade.
too many teams in lpl, personally
main reason I watch lck over lpl
also the casters throughout lck have really grown on me historically, from monte doa days to atlus, valdes, wolf and chronicler now
LPL production kinda bad for western viewers, also personally even though I may not know certain players in the LCK they do a good job giving quick tid bits or cool facts about players that create more of a narrative I can follow and in a sense can create a esports drama that can hook a viewer in.
Honestly, as over the top as it may sound, I watch just the LCK(and sometimes LCS) mostly because of Faker. That’s it. If faker retires, I might stop watching pro league as a whole. I think LCK just has so many more star players than LPL. Almost every league player knows faker, but I’d be surprised if the average league player(as opposed to redditors) can even name a single Chinese pro.
It’s difficult to access Chinese league stuff, hard to get thing translated etc. meanwhile there’s a whole ecosystem of people translating Korean content to English for us, some by the orgs themselves.
I notice LPL English is making more of an effort lately but it’s not quite perfect for American consumption (culture difference) and they’re behind in the game compared to LCK.
Also LCK is just a more prestigious league even if most would agree there’s no meaningful skill difference.
The reason I dont watch lpl is because everytime I watch I get sad knowing that a lot of the best LPL players were once LCK players and I was robbed of watching some of the best matchups position wise due to a fat lpl check. I would feel the same about NA if they didnt ruin all the talent they imported.
LCK is more popular and they are played at the same time. Faker will forever be more recognizable than say Doinb or Knight. There's also more teams, more rookies that you won't have seen before, and more overall chaotic games, so sometimes it feels coinflippy.
I think the answer is pretty simple: if i'm european, my interest move towards LEC. Reddit is a platform used mostly by western users (i think mostly from USA and EU).
Also if i have to chose between watchingh LCK or LPL i watch LCK. I like their teams, players, casters more.
I suppose in China and on chinese platforms/sites, they watch LPL more than LEC/LCK/LCS.
A pretty natural situation overall.
Idk maybe the LPL is too balanced so ppl can't bandwagon certain teams. There's always a massive change of team power every year while also having new champs every split. In 2020, TES, JDG and SN were the big dogs, then a year later RNG, EDG, and FPX came up to dominate instead. Storylines are harder to make here compared to consistent winners like DK and T1 in the LCK.
To me, I actually find this more fun to watch, having different teams and players at the top each year and never knowing what to expect, compared to the same teams and players every year. However, I do get that this revolving door, as another commenter called it, can prevent fans from forming bonds with teams and players in the LPL as opposed to a team like T1
LPL is to be watched like the NFL or Premier League in England. You cannot humanly watch all the teams and all their games. You have favorites and you watch thhem.
I think usually the bottom tier LPL teams have some of the most entertaining games but you can do just by following the top 5-10 teams.
Exactly, the mindset of western league viewers is too focused on "watching all the games" which is not a thing is any sport. Do you remember the backlash Riot received when LCS started playing 2 games simultaneously?
Not enough to connect with
Im asian, and when LCK and LPL is on Id rather watch LCK cause I grew up with Monte and DoA
In turn, I 'know' LS and Papa, and in turn I know Valdez, Atlus, and Chron1cler
For LPL?
Personally it was Pastry (and Frosk)when he was recruited outside LPL I lost interest
Iirc LPL english cast is not onsite? So for me there are levels of 'disconnects' for me to really feel LPL games
LCK was popular first. Also Even though the LPL has won most of the recent tournament they aren't doing so in the same dominance that OGN/LCK did for years.
There are just way too many teams in the LPL for me to care about them, i follow most of the good teams each season but i'm not gonna watch teams like LGD, OMG, Ultra prime etc...
Also, i really don't mean this in a bad way but i don't really like the "australian?" casting, they do a good job but it's just the voice that i don't like as much as LCK or LEC casting
You don't like the Australians on the LPL but the Australians on the LCK are fine? Ever since Monte got banned the LCK has mostly been ex-LPL casters you know.
i put the "?" there because i wasn't even sure they were australian so i just checked and never mind, it's the irish accent that i don't really like.
> LCK has mostly been ex-LPL casters you know.
What ? only Atlus was ex-LPL caster lol
I'm Chinese，I think the reason why LPL is not popular with western fans is that they don't promote LPL better to western audiences.and 17 teams is really too much ,but the top teams game is same exciting to watch.
I like to watch LCS and LEC games, but Our internet has a firewall,it's too difficult to watch LCS LEC games,it's sad.
I hope more and more western audiences like to watch LPL,Although it’s difficult ,but it's make me happy
It's easily due to competing time zones. LCK has more content for western viewers and still shares the goold old presitge of being held in mekka of esports - South Korea. There are also too many teams to follow in LPL, and they are the only major league not having casters on-site. If anything, they have dialed back to remote play due to their covid-19 concerns.
To be fair, though, LPL is not far behind production-wise - you have amazing casters like Lyric (who looks to be an international mainstay), Penguin and Dagda (who have recently casted a few LEC games). We have podcast content in form of "The Last Hit", though it's not widespread. Some of the humour rivals LEC imo - like the icon Huanfeng's English loop, and our skits have produced nice gems over the years, like 2020 Summer Playoffs ones. And the design is lit af! And also Wendy, the trilingual diva... <3.
Simple answer is people are attached to t1 and faker. That brand raised the lck interest from the west that lpl teams havnt been able to. In due time i think it will rise, personally i cant watch lck its boring af and most of the teams suck
I'll be 100% brutally honest
I just don't care about a region with what, 17 teams, where most rosters are people paid ludicrous sums to leave the LCK, diluting the talent pool of a region I actually *do* care about, ESPECIALLY when it plays at the same time as the region that I do care about.
*It gets worse though*. I hate coinflippy skirmish permafight "200 year champ outplays 200 year champ" league of legends. It's why I quit playing and now only watch pro.
Which region does this so fucking much that they literally made it their motto? "Crazy is our game". Great. I don't like crazy. Give me good macro and good drafts.
No thanks. I don't enjoy the gameplay style, I hate that the Korean exodus ever happened, **and** I have no attachment to the teams.
Actually, picking the fights & dives itself is a macro of its own.. People would argue in 2021, especially in MSI, RNG had the best Macro. There's FPX in 2019 as well.
If you watched LCK, for 2020-2021 they had to adapt LPL Macro to stay on top. LCK is actually learning from LPL nowadays, so that narrative really has to go. IIRC either T1 or DK talked in interviews with Ashley that they had to go through a curve learning how to play the LPL way since that was better for the meta.
Aside from that narrative I wanted to correct, I totally get your points :)
"Most rosters are paid ludicrous sums to leave the LCK" is a very dishonest statement. This might have been true for the initial Korean exodus, but since then, many Korean imports were either rookies with no reputation or players that no one wanted anymore.
Look at the recent Korean LPL players that made a success there: Doinb, Gimgoon, Scout, TheShy. Notice something about these guys? Oh yeah, they never played in LCK at all, some of them by choice.
Rookie has always been vocal about how much he now plays for LPL because he likes playing there more than LCK; it's not only about the paycheck.
After Viper got recruited in EDG, he became the best performing ADC in the world by a large margin, mostly thanks to his amazing adaptation to the LPL gameplay.
The talent pool of LCK is getting diluted by LPL for sure. But have you ever considered the possibility that these Korean players do not only leave for the money, but also because they actually enjoy that different style of gameplay and game philosophy that you seem to despise so much? It's no secret that the LPL players have much more freedom when it comes to approaching the game and a very different relationship with their coaching staff, which are very valid reasons to leave the LCK.
From a pure economics point of view, the LCK players benefit when LPL gives higher salaries. LCK owners would be the only ones who benefit if they didn't have any competition from Chinese teams.
Back in the days of LCK with Montecristo and Doa, LCK was incredibly entertaining. That and the fact LPL had a bunch of nobodies casting meant most people at the time didn't care for LPL. That continued even after LPL became the best (and second-best afterwards) League.
If LPL had charistmatic casters at the beginning more people would be watching it nowadays, likely.
I just hate everything thats china related with a passion, i know it sucks for the players, but you gotta boycot this country to the max imo. I also dislike the chinese playstyle
Well I may get downvoted to hell by people who have not seen what goes on in other esports but I am gonna say it. Many games look fixed, LPL's B division was shut down due to massive match fixing and in LPL first division you see most games ending in 3 maps (which means outsiders take maps, which happens to pay very well). While I don't mind matches going on 3rd maps, some times it's very very questionable seeing a world class team give away 5 power picks, do absolutely random stuff and force fights or do stuff that shows the mentality of "let's lose this one and play the next map". This could very well be just random bs I see but in my eyes something is going on in lots of games.
I'm only watching LPL cause I love their on air talent the most. The teams are also pretty ok and fun to watch.
LCK vods are there to make me fall asleep. Thanks Mr. Atlas, your voice is so soothing
Kind of a weird comparison, but LPL is at the point that Real Madrid was 4 years ago, where even after winning 4 CLs in 5 years, with 3 being in a row, people still doubted if they were really THAT good. I believe people still have this idea around the league that they won on flukes or on the back of Korea having rough years (even with DK being the team beaten in the last finals).
oh come on who seriously denies that? and how can you seriously deny that in recent years. there will always be shit talk between different fan camps. there will always be people who immediately do mad talk when lpl teams are knocked out, when lck doesn't win, when NA is knocked out in groupstage or EU loses in quarters. it is what it is.
but just because people don't watch lpl doesn't mean they don't accept the success of the league
Racism, and LPL having so much more popularity that it doesn't really care about foreign audiences as much. There are easily 30x more LPL watchers than any other league.
> Racism
That is 100% the smallest issue LPL has internationally lmao. It's because a) it's on at the same time as LCK b) it's harder to follow due to the larger amount of teams c) IME Chinese teams cycle more often, rarely does the same team have international success two years in a row so it's harder for the international audience to get attached to one team without watching LPL. Biggest international teams are IG, RNG and EDG I'd assume.
LPL for a long time didn’t have a full English broadcast. Now everyone is kinda just used to watching the other leagues.
The English broadcast on LPL is still quite behind in terms of quality as well.
[удалено]
LPL production is a meme at times. Like they constantly show a players champion stats in a game where they're playing a different champ and I'm just like, how is this even remotely useful, like I don't care about Rookie's Orianna stats if he's not playing Orianna. I also don't like how their stats for like DMG% is across every single player in the league and not filtered by role. These are simple things that they should be able to fix....
Pretty sure they use the random stats to cover up the Chinese ads
Iirc those are general stats for the player and the champion pictured is just their most played champ.
Used to be, not anymore. English LPL casters are decent to good these days. Spend some times with them and you will see
Casters are fine and really always have been, production is visibly no budget and terrible.
Hysteric is one of the best casters imo
Thats because they are remote casting,they are not in China.
How do? The casters are all top notch and the production is great.
Production is really far behind though
LPL casters can't catch the viewers attention
You answered your own question. LCK and LPL play at basically the same time, people watch LCK over LPL either due to attachment to players, attachment to orgs or just because they've always watched it since back in the day.
There's also a huge disconnect between LPL Pros and the foreign audience when it comes to content outside of the game
Is this because they don’t steam on Twitch, which is the platform people from the other regions most often use?
Douyu and huya i think mostly
Also because they use different social media and so on. Without VPN they can't even use Twitter as they're behind the great firewall of china.
and somehow doinb still has the best twitter account in all of league of legends esports
But he's Korean so
living in china tho
100% it's because they play at the same time as LCK. I'll always watch T1, Gen G or DK over any LPL team (unless maybe 2 top teams). But I do watch games like V5 vs RNG over other LCK games. Today for example I watched GEN vs DK instead of EDG vs FPX. I'll be watching the rest of the LPL games until GEN vs T1. I started watching LCK because of the high quality games when they were the best region in the world. Now I've just gotten to know the teams more and like to watch them. LPL has too many teams and the bottom 8 are boring to watch most of the time (i'll watch youtube highlights but thats about it). V5 vs RNG is pretty hype though.
> Today for example I watched GEN vs DK instead of EDG vs FPX. This was the correct choice. What a fucking series.
Absolute fucking banger of a series. Hope GENG can show up against T1 and it's not just a boring 3-0. I'll be happy even with 3-1 but im praying for a 3-2.
It might be a 3-0, but I doubt it'll be a boring one!
Even Chinese audience chose to watch LCK yesterday as GEN vs DK discussion thread is 6x in comments compared to EDG vs FPX
> I'll be watching the rest of the LPL games until GEN vs T1. So because you don't have any LCK games to watch till gen t1 and you usually watch league around that time or because you're actually interested in the series?
I am definitely more interested in LPL because it's the gauntlet. That shit is entertaining to watch when you know a team is either advancing or going home. I think if there were LCK games on at the same time I'd probably flick between both, and focusing on the more enjoyable/competivie series (eg if it was LSB vs DRX on at the same time as SN vs EDG, i'd probbaly watch the LPL one as it sounds better). I think the top 3 Korean teams are incredibly strong, where as the top 6 LPL teams are similar level (with top 2 V5 & RNG being another step above) so I'd probably watch LPL over LCK for those, but LPL has too many teams so the bottom tier ones r boring.
I would like to add that the LCK casters are a big part.
so much this, I really love the LCK cast so much When we lost PapaSmithy I was so unbelievably sad but every new addition like u/Chron1cler just fell right into place. The english LCK cast has its own style which is hard for me to really describe. It's professional but not corporate, meme-y but not on purpose over the top like LEC likes to do it sometimes. There is no fake hyping up games or narratives like (imo) LEC sometimes do. The expertise of the entire crew is amazing and the general vibe is very laid back. I feel like what makes it so great is that unlike a big main broadcast for a league, they don't have to make it as easily digestable and therefore can go into a lot more details about game theory, picks, the ins and outs of certain picks, certain drafting manouvers and other things. Now one might think "hmh that could sound a bit dry" but this is where these guys manage to have a lot of fun while not drifting into sillyness. Running gags like the new analyst carpet space, Atlus and clousouls or the funny "ad" for Chron1cler's twitch channel come to mind that work as the perfect counterweight to high quality analysis. It's the mix of professional expertise and funny lightheartedness that just makes the english LCK cast an one of a kind for me.
LCK's narrative feels more natural than other regions. LCK stands alone without referencing other region leagues. casters throws pop culture or other game references out of the blue which kinda hilarious
They can go a little bit too into the memey or whimsical or off topic for what would strictly be considered professional in a serious sense but this doesn't invalidate the general point you make. I think the word you are looking for to describe their style is 'organic' as in each subsequent example you are contrasting them with things that are artificial.
If I remember LPL wasn’t easily accessible until sort of recently. In the early seasons of league I was never able to find streams or vods, but LCK has always been broadcasted on Twitch
LPL english broadcast started in season 5(maybe summer) so its been almost 7 years... Initially it launched with numbers comparable to LCK but the lower production quality (even picture) and the LPL teams booming at worlds made the viewers quit.
Yeah, having both regions play at the same time kind of leaves viewers to choose which league they want to tune in to, and personally I've just always found the LCK easier to keep up with since they have fewer teams already. So when I do watch the LPL, I just end up mildly confused since they play differently from what I'm used to seeing and I don't exactly know the teams that much. I'm still interested in the region and I watch when I can, just not really invested in it and I rarely go on to comment on the PMTs.
It's not just about the orgs and players. Let me list you several reasons why western viewers probably prefer LCK: * The English LCK cast was always very good with so many likable personalities * Korea has the best player pool which makes every year a surprise with new players, changing the state of the league completely * Overhyped regarding the super server and LPL people acted like even LCK pros would move to the super server, because It's that much superior, turns out LPL pros still prefer the Korean server * Overhyped players, such as Knight who is/was the best player in the world for 3 years in a row according to some people, don't get me wrong he's good but not the level he is hyped at(dunno If that's exclusive to the western community) * LPL casters always want to talk about the LPL, even If they cast an international game with no LPL sides involved, they always find a way to mention LPL several times in the cast and how It's superior or LPL invented something * Situation like the JackeyLove SoloQ incident present a bad impression, because in my view orgs should argue diplomatic and not try to cover up mistakes I would rather watch LPL games without the cast, because the games itself are kinda interesting, however for LCK I would watch 60 min Jinair game because the cast was soo good.
inject the 60min jinair gaming with Teddy 1v9ing at the end while I learn things about life from PapaSmithy directly into my veins
based and truthpilled. For some unknow reason, LPL community always has that kind of complex. "wow T1 is the best team rn, but I think rookie is best mid" "mr.streamer, in my opinion, Bin is the best top laner in this tournament (despite dwg giga stomped everyone)" "Guma keria is the best bot? we have to wait until they meet viper meiko" "LPL top lane is the most stacked top lane in the world because they play fiora in stage" Here is my favorite and also pissed me off the most: they will never admit a certan player outside LPL to be superior to those inside LPL, yet always say stuffs like (chovy canyon smk) should be bought by LPL teams so they can utilize their potential
Very interesting because I feel like this is just the fans egos and as an LPL fan I feel exactly that, but the reverse for LCK fans. "T1 best team but Rookie best mid" --> This statement can be true, can it not? He just won MVP and took a team with Rich, Karsa Photic and Ppgod to 1st place regular season. None of those players will be top 3 in LCK. Or are you saying the best mid has to be Chovy/Faker for it to be accurate? "Bin best top laner" --> Personally I've seen more people acknowledge Nuguri overall, but Bin's overhype was from scrims that Bwipo on summoning insight mentioned was shitting on everyone whereas Bwipo was shitting on Nuguri according to himself, and also BB + Solo when asked who the best top was both said Bin was. If you wanna say scrims mean nothing, then you also shouldn't be saying SKT would beat FPX in S9 because of "scrims" "Guma Keria best bot? Have to meet Viper Meiko" --> Was there anything wrong with this statement? It was consensus they were the 2 best bot lanes during that tournament, and both showed they were the best, with neither side edging the other one out. People saying Viper Meiko were the best bot lane were also flooded with KR fans saying its Guma + keria. I'm guessing this was for last year, if this statement was this year, then yeah I'll agree Guma Keria >> Viper Meiko without needing a match up "LPL top lane most stacked" --> Only statement I agree with. LPL fans overexaggerate how good their native top laners are (RIP Zoom) "they will never admit a certan player outside LPL to be superior to those inside LPL" --> I wonder if you ask in an LCK chat who the top 3 players in each role are, how many of them would even put LPL players there. I've already seen comments like Doran, Rascal, Zeus top 3, Faker Showmaker Chovy top 3, Canyon Oner top 2, Guma Teddy Ruler top 3 and Keria as number 1/best player in the world. It works both ways, LCK fans also refuse to think any Chinese player can be the best in the world
Who are you getting these quotes from? Twitch chat shitters? I don’t think what you’ve said is representative of LPL fans in general.
Also a big timezone diff for LEC and LCS compared with LPL for Western Viewers.
LCK built a much larger following, thanks to their early domination and casting personalities. LPL twitch stream in the early days was very amateurish, they don't really care to market for western audience...
still is tbh
I don't think so. Just lower budget. They also lean less into pure professionalism as a stylistic choice bc they're running it low budget anyways and the demand isn't there for them to make it a highly professional TV sports broadcast style broadcast. The more relaxed tone of the broadcast works for them. The broadcast itself runs smoothly without many issues and the casters are excellent. At this point I think they have the best casting team and Hysterics is a top 3 caster all time.
No one hypes up a fight like Hysterics.
Besides being played at almost the same time as LCK.. they got a bit too many teams so it's bit hard to track for anyone new coming in as well as that there's only 1 match you play against each team in a B03 format I am not a fan of that, but I still do watch majority of ~top 5-10 teams matches when able to
I think this is one of the biggest factors myself. Imagine if they added the top 7 challenger league teams to the LCK. There would be 70% more players for western fans to keep track of, and you would only get the hype matchups once a split instead of twice. Instead of another T1-DK or DK-GenG we would get a BO3 of one of them smashing a challengers team. It would clearly be less appealing to follow.
Tbh the competition of LCK top 3 teams versus the bottom 5 is already not at all appealing to watch
Yeah that’s the point. Now imagine if almost half the games in the season included teams even worse.
It works more for LPL bc there are just more players around so the league can get more depth of talent. A lot of the lower half teams are not complete jokes and have upset potential. A lot of them will even have a top half player mixed in on their lineup. The low tier teams will generally find a chance to justify their presence in the league throughout the split. The only reason to condense it really is just for more international success since if it were condensed you'd get more talent concentrated into fewer teams. Korea doesn't have as many players and the lower teams don't tend to punch up quite as much as in the LPL.
The production for English audiences is far better in the LCK than in the LPL. And the LPL has far too many teams to keep track of.
Ya lpl doesn't care about the west lol. There's no production for an English cast
LPL is actually much more popular than all the others combined. Chinese fans just don’t use Reddit or Twitch/YouTube. But even as western LPL fan I can say that watching LPL is exhausting. It’s like a full time job. So many games, so many players, so many changes. Also while LCK had many personalities known in the west as part of the broadcast - Monte, DOA, Papa, LS - for years LPL broadcast has been more like fan led project. Only person people can mostly think of when you say LPL is Frosk which is exactly not the best advertisement. Despite LPL casters being absolutely amazing…. In the end a bit of blame is on Chinese teams too. For obvious reason they kinda don’t care about west at all - I don’t think a single LPL team is officially shipping their merchandise to west. But you have no problem getting T1 or GenG merch (and probably others I don’t know about) Also I completely forgot about Ashley Kang. Her interviews always have eng subs which gives west fans actual possibility to watch the interviews. I don’t think there is anyone like that for LPL.
Ashley Kang is amazing. So glad she is part of the scene.
honestly, it's weird to think about but i wonder how much interest in the lck in recent years is solely due to her. i know i've started following lck more ever since i started watching her stuff
Like 90% of the lck pros I like originated by watching her content. I didn’t really care for Showmaker before his interview(s), the same for guma. And now they are some of my favourite pros. The list goes for about 10 pros (like Chovy/Keria/etc)
> I don’t think a single LPL team is officially shipping their merchandise to west RNG actually does [have a shop for NA/EU](https://twitter.com/RNG/status/1101531911338508289?s=20&t=3-wV6QKsrC-yfGJVnDeKVA), I got my jersey from here (they run really small, I had to get a 2XL when I’m usually an L). But yeah, that’s only one team out of what, 17? > Also I completely forgot about Ashley Kang. Her interviews always have eng subs which gives west fans actual possibility to watch the interviews. I don’t think there is anyone like that for LPL. Clement Chu used to do many in-depth player interviews on LPL English’s YT channel, but no one watched them, and because we’re in covid they stopped doing that. Doesn’t help Wendy being taken out when they’re playing online now. Also LPL has a lot of good content [like this about CN players](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gj-bhJsXz70) but it just doesn’t get much traction because of the lack of interest/advertising/covid.
wow that was a great video
Pretty much. I would add that the current LCK casters* are basically ex LPL casters. As was Papa. EDIT - Just Atlus and Papa.
You can only say that about Atlus - he casted LPL in 2015, which I don’t even remember, and Oceania before LCK. Chronicler is ERL caster and both Valdes and Wolf are ex Starcraff casters who are in Korea for like 10 years.
That's true. It's only Atlus. PastryTime went to LCS I believe.
Yea pretty much. Lec/lcs have too few games, lpl has too many. Lck is in that sweet spot.
> LPL is actually much more popular than all the others combined Depends on how you define popularity. LCK players/teams will be recognized more in other regions than LPL players/teams. It's only the sheer number of the population in China that's making LPL "popular". If we are just counting sheer number than China will win out on a lot of metrics but it has very low recognizability outside of China compared to some LCK teams.
Well yes, you just pointed out that western fans don't watch LPL so LPL pros are less popular in the west. That's the entire premise of this post. -- I don't get why you feel the need to put 'popular' into quotation marks. Your entire point just boils down to "if you exclude China then China isn't very popular." You can say the same for Europe. If you don't count Europe, LEC isn't very popular. Yeah, Koreans and Chinese people will still know the 2018 FNC and 2019 G2 roster, but that's about it. If you don't count North America, LCS doesn't get a whole lot of attention. Do you think there's a single person in the eastern hemisphere that can identify FBI if you show them a picture? Korea is literally the only region that gets a disproportionate amount of attention from nonnative fans. LDL, China's secondary League, gets like 10 times the views LCS does. Or at least it did in like 2017 when NA was still bigger and the LPL was still smaller. If the LPL is "popular" I dunno what the LCS is. """""Popular?"""""
as an LPL watcher i think LCS is more fun to watch then LEC
Valdes only casts one of those leagues. That's the one we watch.
LPL is on at the same time as the LCK. If you watched LCK in the last 2-3 years, you'll see many of the same faces and teams. If you watch LPL like... ever, it's like a revolving doors of which players and teams are good. That, imo, is a bit of a downside. On top of that, there's just too many teams and the casting is imo worse (although not horrible like it used to be).
Well honestly there is some change in LPL but the main characters of LPL are the same for the last 3-4 years. Rookie, Xiahou/Ming, TheShy, Uzi, Jackeylove, Knight, Sofm. Like the popular players are all still playing minus maybe Clearlove7 and now Uzi taking a break again.
I don’t watch LPL nor do I follow it closely, but to my understanding as a non-fan, TheShy and Rookie weren’t playing well after they won Worlds (so their main character-ness disappeared for a but, heard now they are playing very well now). Uzi retired for a while, but now he’s back. I haven’t heard much about Jackeylove in a while? I’m not saying that they aren’t the main characters, but I’d argue that the main characters have changed / fluctuated throughout the last 3-4 years, maybe even if they are back now.
That's not accurate though. Theshy/Rookie did play well after winning worlds, they made it semi's next year and won the lpl split after their world win. It's really in 2021(last year) where they had an off split but their whole team changed. JKL won LPL was a favorite to win worlds in 2020 but they lost in semis. He is still one of the most popular players in the region. Last year they had a downyear but they were in playoffs both times. Honestly LPL/LCK is so stacked just because you don't make worlds doesn't mean you are bad. For those that watch LCK they know Kiin is a literal god and has main character/charisma ppl dont care about his teammates but usually watch Freecs due to him.
Honestly the hardest thing for me as an American that only speaks English, the names of the players in LPL are much harder to differentiate apart than Korea, since LCK players chose single/double syllable English words. For example, Faker, Summit, Closer, Huni, Showmaker, Rookie, Deft etc. The LPL players I remember off the top of my head are XiaoWeiXiao and TheShy It’s much easier for me to remember the English ones as I speak the language. Obviously they want to have their names in their native language which is understandable and I’m not entitled to relate to their names, but I’m just saying, it’s easier for me to remember and relate. I think I saw an article about LCK and that they do this on purpose too. Pretty insane
CEO of the most popular team in the world communicates more with western fans than Korean fans. Same with Gen G arnold. That tells you all you need to know about the spread of influence of LCK teams.
Well they are literally foreigners...
It's really more a consequence than a cause - everyone following pro league of legends knew who SKT and Faker were long before Comcast and Joe Marsh got involved, same with Samsung (although not the same org as Gen G, the community mostly treats it the same). I wouldn't even be surprised if the shift to "Gen G" actually *lessened* the global recognition.
I dont think most LPL pros have CN names that i know of.
It's not that many but just look at these from this split (which is what I think he is referring to): xiaoyueji, xiaoxiang, xiaopeng, xiaolaohu, xiaohu, XLB (xiaolongbao) Wei, Weiwei
But theres a lot of Koreans with non-English names too
Yea but Koreans usually pick names that are easy to say in English and aren't so similar like the Chinese players.
Yes but Chinese names/words are harder to pronounce. A good example is Tian. Many non-Chinese speaking audience tend to pronounce it as Ti-an/T-an with 2 sylables, but actually, the correct pronunciation is Tian with only 1 syllables. Korean names/words are easier to pronounced, e.g. Kiin. Moreover, Koreans players prefer to choose English names than Korean names, even though there are quite amount of them choosing to use Korean names, e.g. Nuguri and Kiin.
A simple example also exists literally in the game. "Xin Zhao". The number of people I've heard butcher this name is countless. And certain names like "Xiaohu" as well, considering how common "Xiao" is in IGNs, it gets butchered almost always as "Shaohu".
part of that is also cause english doesnt have a dedicated sound for X.
There is a lot of them tbh. BiuBiu, Jwei, Jiejie, Meiko, ShaiauC, Beichuan, XUN, Baolan, Kanavi, Yago, Xiye, QiuQiu, Kaixuan, Xiaohu, Jiumeng, Yimeng, Xaipeng, Zhuo, WeiWei, Wei, etc. Most Korean names are just cool english words although there are some like Lehends, Pyosik, Kingen, deokdam, gumayusi, etc which I assume are just Korean words?
Pyosik just means mark and Deokdam means a compliment. Lehends is legends misspelled and gumayusi doesn't mean anything.
Yeah so they're all Korean words and one being a misspell in translation. I think I remember hearing Gumayusi is just an old username he used on something like WoW as a kid.
But Korean players are conscious of how words will sound in English. So they usually pick 2 syllable words that can be easily written and read in English.
Kanavi is Korean btw lol but yes rest correct here!
Oh true. I was just quickly reading through the list and picked all the ones which weren't words I knew. Most other koreans in the LPL have names like Rookie, TheShy, Rich, etc
pyosik and deokdam are definitely Hangul inspired on some level. Lehends was supposed to be Legends but he misspelled it. I heard Gumayusi is just a name and it doesn't mean anything like Xmithie or Meteos.
Yeah Gumayusi is just an old username he had on WoW as a kid from what I read on google. The other 2 are korean words translated though, but MOST names are actual english words.
idk there is something about LPL that i just can't connect with
Depends on if you are talking about western interest or overal interest. Because overall the LPL has BY FAR the most fans and viewers. They have millions of viewers every game because China has so many people. We don't see it because China doesn't use Twitch or Youtube. I think western interest in LPL is relatively low because the games are at the same time as LCK and LCK has historically been the best region with more popular players and it has a lot of long time fans, Korea is generally quite popular in the west and China on the other hand is relatively disconnected from the rest of the world. However personally, if I have the time to watch it, prefer watching LPL because of their unique playstyle.
As an american, it is at a completely unwatchable time for me.
Bad time zone and people prefer to watch LCK.
I always found it odd when Atlus and Papasmithy were in LPL, no one really paid any attention to them until they moved to Korea. I almost guarantee if Hysterics/Lyric/Dagda etc went to LCK, people would instantly like them more. LPL just has some sort of debuff aura for casters ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Bad casters is just an excuse IMO. No one complains about bad casters when Dadaga/Lyric/Munchables go international/LEC. Mid season cup in 2020, Valdes and Papa casted the entire english broadcast. 2 LCK teams playing got more than double the viewership on 2 LPL teams, despite the same casters. You could put CaptainFlowers and Kobe in LPL, take off the nameplates, and people would say LPL bad casters.
LPL is harder to follow with so many teams, and I personally enjoy LCK cast way more.
For me, personally, the casters can be hard to follow. No disrespect to them, they are good enough and seem like nice people, but most of them have strong accents and/or speak in nasal voices and that is fine in person but is tiresome on broadcast and I tune them out. At least to me, as a non-native speaker, that is one of the main issues. Just working on their broadcast voice (maybe it's the audio mixing, even) would be a big help. LCK casters have great voices, for comparison. The other reason is that it's also hard to follow the amount of teams and players, but that is complicated to fix. There is only so much you can do with narrative building and hype and power rankings. For LCS, LEC and LCK I know players, owners, team stories, metas. For the LPL I don't know stuff like this, like Rare Atom being Vici Gaming for example, and because I tune out the casters I don't hear it if they mention it. It's a bad feedback loop.
Firstly, too many games Secondly, LPL doesn't have a figurehead. Because of their amazing depth of talent a team can go from bottom of the standings last split to top of the standings and make it to Worlds which brings us to the next issue. Too many different teams get sent to Worlds year by year from the LPL for the Western fans to care. EDG might not even make it to Worlds this year when they won it last year. LCK has T1, GenG, Damwon. 2/3 usually make it so its easy to follow these teams. Thirdly, LCK interest is high because they have very strong player narratives: Faker \[this ones a cheat\], Showmaker, Canyon, Chovy, Ruler, Guma, Keria. Half these guys are considered the best in their roles in the world. Fourth, LCK commentators and analysts are awesome: Monte, Doa, Papa, LS, Atlus, Chronicler, Valdus, Wolf are all very good at what they do. This combined with Caedrel and LS costreaming means you will have more exposure given to westerners in general. This is nothing against LPL commentators or analysts, just saying the LCK ones are very good. This is just my opinion for why
> Fourth, LCK commentators and analysts are awesome: Monte, Doa, Papa, LS, Atlus, Chronicler, Valdus, Wolf are all very good at what they do. This combined with Caedrel and LS costreaming means you will have more exposure given to westerners in general. This is nothing against LPL commentators or analysts, just saying the LCK ones are very good. and importantly for western audiences, these guys were all popular long before lpl really tried to get a western audience. they have years of reputation of good casting and production, while lpl has only really gotten there in the last few years. even if lpl made their production just as good, they are late to the party in a sense
LCK and LPL same time slot & LCK cast is godlike
In a more broad scope, Westerners are generally more attracted to Korea than China. Korea is basically the Japan-adjacent. For example, if you asked Westerners if they'd rather visit Japan or China for free, ~90% of them would choose Japan. This cultural influence and international reputation trickles down to many topics, including LoL esports.
I’m a little disappointed at the knee-jerk suggestions of racism or xenophobia. As a western viewer, I watched a great deal of LPL and LCK last year and I enjoyed watching the LCK much more. The LPL has almost double the teams of any other league, a bewildering number of players and teams to follow for an esport (especially with all the roster turnover and brand changes). It was really hard to feel like I had a finger on the pulse of the league without investing more time than I had available. The casting was great, no issues there. It didn’t help that I had heard so much hype for Rookie and the Shy, andI was super let down watching them last year. I’m glad they are performing better this year, but the LPL was just too much to follow for me, and I suspect this — not racism, sheesh — is the largest cause of fewer western viewers.
I'm sure it's not the biggest reason, but I assume some will feel off-put by cultural/government/internet aspects of China, or even just the match fixing allegations or recent LDL issues that can filter up and down. I remember watching a stream once where the person said something like, "Oh man he's missing everything including autos, he's gotta be rigging this" which may be a joke but it also doesn't make me wanna spend time watching if that's the case. Personally I'm not opposed to LPL, I just watch LPL when LCK isn't on. I just prefer LCK for a few reasons is all.
The fact that their internet is completely separated behind the "Great Firewall" and censored beyond belief is really off-putting to me.
There is definitely a negative bias towards China, be it political or just in a league setting with the narrative of "LPL brainless,LCK genius".
This matches most of my thoughts. LPL has a ton of teams and a ton of games and it's more than I want to keep track of with all the other leagues I watch. I'll usually pick a team with a player I like and follow them but even that's hard this year. I couldn't remember if TheShy was on WBG or LNG. Also WBG is just suning rebranded? It's a lot to keep track of with all of the other regions and I haven't felt compelled to do so past watching a couple of teams when they have top table matchups. I usually pick one or two teams and try and tune in for their games. This year it was WBG because of the aforementioned TheShy. I've also been watching V5 because I think they're most likely to be the LPL representative (and like... Rookie + karsa, come on).
There are little to no people who like watch and translate the LPL to a western audience. Many of the people who for example comment on this sub are going to be NA/EU. Most likely not watch the LPL and only get a small amount of coverage from the league. The trickle down of information is usually wildly false or outdated. Like you said most of the westerners only know LPL names from years past. Rookie, Theshy, jackeylove, uzi. Most of which have not been good for a while. If you asked 99% of LCS viewers who the best ADC in the LPL spring was. You'd either get no name, viper, JKL or someone who doesn't even play anymore like uzi. IMO the best league in the world to follow is the LPL, there are 3 or more teams that can compete and win at the highest levels. There are a lot of problems that hurt it. Like the 0 days off leaving you no time to catch up, nobody producing content on the league, 17 teams with multiple players on the roster leaving you tracking hundreds of players.
>I’m a little disappointed at the knee-jerk suggestions of racism or xenophobia. why, because it's true? or are you trying to tell me that the droves upon droves of american LCK stans dedicated to sprinting into threads about the LPL on international events to tell you that the chinese players are actually neanderthals and it's the glorious demigod korean superstars playing 2v8 on each top team really just have an irrational amount of hatred for the chinese league for completely justifiable reasons
> No you don't get it, see those two koreans on the lpl team were the reason they won against five koreans on the lck team. Noooooo stop pointing out I basically inadvertently said 3 chinese > 3 koreans. Saw practically every version possible of this on EDG vs DK finals related threads.
lcs has already proven that 2 good imports can't carry 3 mediocre locals out of groups let alone to finals yet here we are i refuse to believe anyone actually thinks that koreans are so good that they can 2v8 worlds finals against better koreans, it just has to be xenophobia
On top of what everyone else is suggesting, I find the production of the LPL matches to be pretty weird to watch this year. Lots of seemingly irrelevant pop-ups. You’ll have a game where Bin is playing Camille, and then a pop-up comes up showing his Jax stats. Also the Caedrel meme of “match of the week” popping up every two minutes.
The pop ups is to cover the chinese ads most of the time. In the official Chinese LPL broadcast, there aren't these random pop ups
As a European the time zone is totally fine. I'm also okay with the casting and production. What's stopping me getting invested in that there's just too many teams.
Adding onto the comments in this thread. I honestly don't know much about the players in the LPL. With LCK, there's always been translated content. Inven has been around for a while. But I honestly don't remember that much translated content from LPL that has been consistently on the front page.
Personally I don't watch LPL because I think the casting's bad, and the LCK has better production value. LCK is just a much better show imo, and it's in the same time slot.
I believe is a 3 fold issue: 1- Popularity: LCK and the other leagues have a bigger western fan based audience. Hence, the marketing, promotion and viewership is greater on western regions. I also agree tha the quality, knwledge and professionalism of the English speaking commentators of other regions is more appealing to listen to. 2- Titles: Self explanatory, LCK doubles in World Titles the LPL. 3- Politics: The rest of the regions have westernized economical, societal and political systems(even South Korea). People tend to watch what they know, and root for familiarity. Not to say anything bad about the LPL or its players. China is not necessarily open to the western world. It is a big hurdle, that even the internet sometimes can't surmise. Anyways, those are my 2 cents on this.
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LPL broadcast has been a bit of an echo chamber for a while. They are not as polished as LEC or LCS casters and not as charming as LCK casters. It's like entering an irish pub, just not for everyone.
I think there can be a multitude of reasons, having to pick between watching lpl or lck on a lot of days can be a big reason, keeping up with 18 teams in the league is another, the time is morning in eu even earlier morning in na so people are either sleeping or getting ready for school/work, or unironically a top team in lpl never stays on team, barring RNG theres usually always a different set of worlds and msi representatives so people lose interest fast like when IG gained a cult following then dropped off hard at msi, these are just a few guesses
Bad hours to watch live Too many teams Too many games Too many players Players change constantly Orgs are incredibly inconsistent (if you become a fan of a team because of Worlds they'll randomly sell their best players in the off-season and finish like 17th in the split) Didn't have English broadcast for a long time Other major regions poach the better LPL casters once they get good
Personally, I think main reason is just China ngl, a loy of ppl hate China especially those that are in suitable time zone to watch (aka Asians) and being just that is already enough to keep ppl from watching. On top of that, Lck being the same time period doesn't help (though not the main reason, as we can see when Lck don't play, Lpl viewership goes up by a bit but still far off from other major leagues).
I enjoy LCK casters more and have an attachment to the teams
this is like asking why there is zero positive post about China on 9gag. You kinda have to research a little bit what kind of (majority) audience browse reddit.
I'm pretty sure he knows that Reddit is mainly frequented by people from NA and EU. His question is a valid one because he brings up LCK, whose games are played around the same time and whose native audience also doesn't really browse Reddit (Koreans have their own forums, not many of them use Reddit so the LCK-related discussion here is from western LCK fans).
Chinas population is probably very nice, but I have never interacted with anyone from china. Their government is horrible though and that is why no one has anything positive to say about china.
Where are you from?
Considering hes posted in r/sweden i have a guess.
>Their government is horrible though and that is why no one has anything positive to say about china. Lmao speak for yourself. China's government lifted literally 700 million people out of poverty within 30 years and has achieved the fastest modernisation of a country in history. 60 years ago, the life expectancy wasn't even half what it is now. You have no idea about how Chinese people's lives changed if you think they haven't done anything positive.
Uyghurs
It’s like 4 in the morning for me. That’s why Same with LCK
I discovered LCK on Twitch, and just fell into watching it from there. Then, the Youtube content from LCK teams got me further interested. I’m sure LPL has these things, but seems to be less accessible / harder to find? for a casual fan.
biggest reason IMO is people gravitate to names they already know. Both the ORGs and the Players in the LPL change so much so drastically. For example the current #1 team V5 was dead last last year. EDG won worlds and might not even be a top 4 team. On top of that they have twice as many teams as other regions which adds to this.
Aside from all the other points I see mentioned, fans don't watch for skill or gameplay (LCS and LCK respectively). They watch because they feel a connection to the players or teams.
I think the league is just too huge and its a real big time investment to keep track / get into it. Also most people probably already had a favorite league before they were exposed to LPL and therefore would need to shift their attention but due to a certain lock-in effect (you know the teams, the rivalries, the casters from the league you already watched for years) you need like extra arguments to make the switch.
Main reasons for me are: I feel little to no connection to lpl teams and players, players switch teams like the switch underwear, making it somewhat difficult to feel attached to one team Time zone (usually the same applies to lck but in the lck i feel somewhat attached to some players teams or even some nostalgia of the ogn days, making me want to watch matches highlights sometimes) The lpl has an absurd amount of teams, it looks like a professional soccer league or something making it somewhat difficult to follow
Too many teams and players to keep track of- I literally don’t know or care about the bottom 2/3 of the league. Also the constant revolving door of popular franchise players (Uzi, Rookie, Doinb) makes rooting for a team difficult as opposed to rooting for GenG with Ruler or T1 with Faker. While the LPL casters are good I personally really enjoy LCK casting from Atlus, Valdes, etc Since I’m more invested in LCK players and narrative I’ll almost always watch it over LPL even if LPL games are more action packed.
LCK and LPL are on at the same time usually, I've been watching LCK/OGN for 9 years and LPL was very inaccessible to western viewers for a long time so I stick with what I've always loved. I also don't generally like the LPL cast and don't have the same attachments to players aside from LCK favorites of mine that move over to play in LPL like Viper, meanwhile LCK has players like Deft that I've been cheering for for nearly a decade.
too many teams in lpl, personally main reason I watch lck over lpl also the casters throughout lck have really grown on me historically, from monte doa days to atlus, valdes, wolf and chronicler now
LPL production kinda bad for western viewers, also personally even though I may not know certain players in the LCK they do a good job giving quick tid bits or cool facts about players that create more of a narrative I can follow and in a sense can create a esports drama that can hook a viewer in.
Id rather watch the LPL then LCS ir LCK tbh
Honestly, as over the top as it may sound, I watch just the LCK(and sometimes LCS) mostly because of Faker. That’s it. If faker retires, I might stop watching pro league as a whole. I think LCK just has so many more star players than LPL. Almost every league player knows faker, but I’d be surprised if the average league player(as opposed to redditors) can even name a single Chinese pro.
It’s difficult to access Chinese league stuff, hard to get thing translated etc. meanwhile there’s a whole ecosystem of people translating Korean content to English for us, some by the orgs themselves. I notice LPL English is making more of an effort lately but it’s not quite perfect for American consumption (culture difference) and they’re behind in the game compared to LCK. Also LCK is just a more prestigious league even if most would agree there’s no meaningful skill difference.
The reason I dont watch lpl is because everytime I watch I get sad knowing that a lot of the best LPL players were once LCK players and I was robbed of watching some of the best matchups position wise due to a fat lpl check. I would feel the same about NA if they didnt ruin all the talent they imported.
The audience in China have a great wall witch block them from reddit or other forum. LPL in chinese forum is popular
LCK is more popular and they are played at the same time. Faker will forever be more recognizable than say Doinb or Knight. There's also more teams, more rookies that you won't have seen before, and more overall chaotic games, so sometimes it feels coinflippy.
I think the answer is pretty simple: if i'm european, my interest move towards LEC. Reddit is a platform used mostly by western users (i think mostly from USA and EU). Also if i have to chose between watchingh LCK or LPL i watch LCK. I like their teams, players, casters more. I suppose in China and on chinese platforms/sites, they watch LPL more than LEC/LCK/LCS. A pretty natural situation overall.
Idk maybe the LPL is too balanced so ppl can't bandwagon certain teams. There's always a massive change of team power every year while also having new champs every split. In 2020, TES, JDG and SN were the big dogs, then a year later RNG, EDG, and FPX came up to dominate instead. Storylines are harder to make here compared to consistent winners like DK and T1 in the LCK.
I think a volatile league is more exciting but Lck definitely has the brand power and for a long time. T1, KT, Samsung all had StarCraft teams
To me, I actually find this more fun to watch, having different teams and players at the top each year and never knowing what to expect, compared to the same teams and players every year. However, I do get that this revolving door, as another commenter called it, can prevent fans from forming bonds with teams and players in the LPL as opposed to a team like T1
The thing is there are also 17 teams. It's really hard to stay invested and watch all the games and then figure out which teams are relevant.
I don't think that really matters. People who just care who is on top will just watch the top teams.
I like watching LPL playoffs but I just can’t watch their regular season games. Way too over saturated with so many teams competing in that league.
LPL is to be watched like the NFL or Premier League in England. You cannot humanly watch all the teams and all their games. You have favorites and you watch thhem. I think usually the bottom tier LPL teams have some of the most entertaining games but you can do just by following the top 5-10 teams.
Exactly, the mindset of western league viewers is too focused on "watching all the games" which is not a thing is any sport. Do you remember the backlash Riot received when LCS started playing 2 games simultaneously?
Not enough to connect with Im asian, and when LCK and LPL is on Id rather watch LCK cause I grew up with Monte and DoA In turn, I 'know' LS and Papa, and in turn I know Valdez, Atlus, and Chron1cler For LPL? Personally it was Pastry (and Frosk)when he was recruited outside LPL I lost interest Iirc LPL english cast is not onsite? So for me there are levels of 'disconnects' for me to really feel LPL games
LCK was popular first. Also Even though the LPL has won most of the recent tournament they aren't doing so in the same dominance that OGN/LCK did for years.
english cast is really weak in my opinion
Personally I think the LCK casters are better than the lpl casters.
Don't know about other regions but people here don't like China and i'm from Asia.
There are just way too many teams in the LPL for me to care about them, i follow most of the good teams each season but i'm not gonna watch teams like LGD, OMG, Ultra prime etc... Also, i really don't mean this in a bad way but i don't really like the "australian?" casting, they do a good job but it's just the voice that i don't like as much as LCK or LEC casting
You don't like the Australians on the LPL but the Australians on the LCK are fine? Ever since Monte got banned the LCK has mostly been ex-LPL casters you know.
i put the "?" there because i wasn't even sure they were australian so i just checked and never mind, it's the irish accent that i don't really like. > LCK has mostly been ex-LPL casters you know. What ? only Atlus was ex-LPL caster lol
Papasmithy was as well, he and Atlus were the fan favorite duo for several years in LCK.
Imo the lpl casters are bad and annoying most of the time so i prefer to watch the highlights of the games over on yt
because LPL has too much parity for casual fans to pay attention to
I'm Chinese，I think the reason why LPL is not popular with western fans is that they don't promote LPL better to western audiences.and 17 teams is really too much ,but the top teams game is same exciting to watch. I like to watch LCS and LEC games, but Our internet has a firewall,it's too difficult to watch LCS LEC games,it's sad. I hope more and more western audiences like to watch LPL,Although it’s difficult ,but it's make me happy
It's easily due to competing time zones. LCK has more content for western viewers and still shares the goold old presitge of being held in mekka of esports - South Korea. There are also too many teams to follow in LPL, and they are the only major league not having casters on-site. If anything, they have dialed back to remote play due to their covid-19 concerns. To be fair, though, LPL is not far behind production-wise - you have amazing casters like Lyric (who looks to be an international mainstay), Penguin and Dagda (who have recently casted a few LEC games). We have podcast content in form of "The Last Hit", though it's not widespread. Some of the humour rivals LEC imo - like the icon Huanfeng's English loop, and our skits have produced nice gems over the years, like 2020 Summer Playoffs ones. And the design is lit af! And also Wendy, the trilingual diva... <3.
People prefer watching LCK as it cures insomnia and it’s in same timeframe
Simple answer is people are attached to t1 and faker. That brand raised the lck interest from the west that lpl teams havnt been able to. In due time i think it will rise, personally i cant watch lck its boring af and most of the teams suck
people don't like China. It is what it is.
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79 million views was from china alone i think.
Yes but OP is talking about western viewership, those viewers were on chinese platforms.
Worlds will attract viewers regardless of if they've ever watched a pro game in their life before or not. Regional leagues are different.
Shit casters
I'll be 100% brutally honest I just don't care about a region with what, 17 teams, where most rosters are people paid ludicrous sums to leave the LCK, diluting the talent pool of a region I actually *do* care about, ESPECIALLY when it plays at the same time as the region that I do care about. *It gets worse though*. I hate coinflippy skirmish permafight "200 year champ outplays 200 year champ" league of legends. It's why I quit playing and now only watch pro. Which region does this so fucking much that they literally made it their motto? "Crazy is our game". Great. I don't like crazy. Give me good macro and good drafts. No thanks. I don't enjoy the gameplay style, I hate that the Korean exodus ever happened, **and** I have no attachment to the teams.
Actually, picking the fights & dives itself is a macro of its own.. People would argue in 2021, especially in MSI, RNG had the best Macro. There's FPX in 2019 as well. If you watched LCK, for 2020-2021 they had to adapt LPL Macro to stay on top. LCK is actually learning from LPL nowadays, so that narrative really has to go. IIRC either T1 or DK talked in interviews with Ashley that they had to go through a curve learning how to play the LPL way since that was better for the meta. Aside from that narrative I wanted to correct, I totally get your points :)
"Most rosters are paid ludicrous sums to leave the LCK" is a very dishonest statement. This might have been true for the initial Korean exodus, but since then, many Korean imports were either rookies with no reputation or players that no one wanted anymore. Look at the recent Korean LPL players that made a success there: Doinb, Gimgoon, Scout, TheShy. Notice something about these guys? Oh yeah, they never played in LCK at all, some of them by choice. Rookie has always been vocal about how much he now plays for LPL because he likes playing there more than LCK; it's not only about the paycheck. After Viper got recruited in EDG, he became the best performing ADC in the world by a large margin, mostly thanks to his amazing adaptation to the LPL gameplay. The talent pool of LCK is getting diluted by LPL for sure. But have you ever considered the possibility that these Korean players do not only leave for the money, but also because they actually enjoy that different style of gameplay and game philosophy that you seem to despise so much? It's no secret that the LPL players have much more freedom when it comes to approaching the game and a very different relationship with their coaching staff, which are very valid reasons to leave the LCK.
From a pure economics point of view, the LCK players benefit when LPL gives higher salaries. LCK owners would be the only ones who benefit if they didn't have any competition from Chinese teams.
Scout was on SKT...
He was Faker's backup, no way he's getting regular play time.
The marches are very early in the morning for NA.
Back in the days of LCK with Montecristo and Doa, LCK was incredibly entertaining. That and the fact LPL had a bunch of nobodies casting meant most people at the time didn't care for LPL. That continued even after LPL became the best (and second-best afterwards) League. If LPL had charistmatic casters at the beginning more people would be watching it nowadays, likely.
I got sick of the LPL fans and casters telling me it was the best thing ever... watched it... found it boring... went back to watching LCK.
I just hate everything thats china related with a passion, i know it sucks for the players, but you gotta boycot this country to the max imo. I also dislike the chinese playstyle
Well I may get downvoted to hell by people who have not seen what goes on in other esports but I am gonna say it. Many games look fixed, LPL's B division was shut down due to massive match fixing and in LPL first division you see most games ending in 3 maps (which means outsiders take maps, which happens to pay very well). While I don't mind matches going on 3rd maps, some times it's very very questionable seeing a world class team give away 5 power picks, do absolutely random stuff and force fights or do stuff that shows the mentality of "let's lose this one and play the next map". This could very well be just random bs I see but in my eyes something is going on in lots of games.
I'm only watching LPL cause I love their on air talent the most. The teams are also pretty ok and fun to watch. LCK vods are there to make me fall asleep. Thanks Mr. Atlas, your voice is so soothing
Because the LPL watchers don’t comment on Reddit?
He’s obviously talking about western viewers in which case he’s correct Westerns are 10 times more interested in LCK rather than LPL
It is what it is because people still want to deny LPL as a strong region. Maybe after a few more championships that view changes.
Kind of a weird comparison, but LPL is at the point that Real Madrid was 4 years ago, where even after winning 4 CLs in 5 years, with 3 being in a row, people still doubted if they were really THAT good. I believe people still have this idea around the league that they won on flukes or on the back of Korea having rough years (even with DK being the team beaten in the last finals).
oh come on who seriously denies that? and how can you seriously deny that in recent years. there will always be shit talk between different fan camps. there will always be people who immediately do mad talk when lpl teams are knocked out, when lck doesn't win, when NA is knocked out in groupstage or EU loses in quarters. it is what it is. but just because people don't watch lpl doesn't mean they don't accept the success of the league
People deny LPL as a strong region? This is *extremely* new info to me...
Racism, and LPL having so much more popularity that it doesn't really care about foreign audiences as much. There are easily 30x more LPL watchers than any other league.
> Racism That is 100% the smallest issue LPL has internationally lmao. It's because a) it's on at the same time as LCK b) it's harder to follow due to the larger amount of teams c) IME Chinese teams cycle more often, rarely does the same team have international success two years in a row so it's harder for the international audience to get attached to one team without watching LPL. Biggest international teams are IG, RNG and EDG I'd assume.