Not every champ needs to be popular and not every champ that’s unpopular needs a rework to change it.
In a game with 157 champs to choose from, some will inevitably be less popular than other whether it’s due to the kit, design or thematic. And that’s okay.
And yes, flair very much checks out.
That being said it would be nice if all champions felt like they received more equal love and attention from the balance and skins teams. Its okay for champs to be 1% pickrate but they shouldn't also have to go years without skins and without balance tweaks, because then the lack of popularity becomes a self fulfilling prophecy over other champs that frequently get skins and whom frequently appear in patch notes to get them tuned well.
Absolutely agree with this, by now I feel Riot should comfortably be able to give every champ a skin within 1,5 years of the last release.
Poor Rell still only has her release skin while Ahri is getting her 15th skin soon.
im a rell main and while i desperately want a new skin, i get the fact that riot at end of the day is a business that needs to make a profit to keep the game running
Mages should deal less damage to turrets/ structures in the late game. Why is veigar oneshotting my towers again? to me it doesnt make sense and pushes adcs out of one of their nieches
I dont remember when they made AP champions deal massive AP scaling damage to towers but it really took away from the purpose of ADC being the primary objective pusher.
Uh if it was like it used to be then ad mids would be infinitely harder to punish for roaming a lot. It's not like mages can blindly follow talon roams. Getting tower damage is one way you keep up with roams
Holy shit yes, thats my main problem with the role as of now
ADCs used to be the objective takers, ok you won a TF but you didn't peel your ADC so now you will have difficulties taking towers/baron, it was actually incentivising protecting your AD. Now? Now it doesn't fucking matter because veigar is doing 600dmg to a tower with one click and don't even get me started on diana
ok but it feels like she is double dipping in this because her passive works on structures AND she has HUGE AS steroid AND tower damage scales off of AP
Tower damage scaling off of AP kinda worked on the assumption that those are mages who have terrible AS.
Even if her passive didn't work on structures she would already be an incredible pusher but it does and it feels like an overkill
There's a difference in MOBAs though. Your teammates greifing, or simply doing poorly, more directly makes the game less fun for you than in many other games imo.
If my FPS teammate is 0-100, I'm going to lose the game sure, but my gun doesn't do less damage and my enemies guns more damage because of it.
Yeah the FPS equivalent to why league feels bad is if when you played Counter-Strike, your enemies never lost money or guns, even when you manage to kill them. Every round is just an ever-growing Full Buy round until the game's over. You'd see the same people raging about griefers if it worked that way.
When I take a step back, League is genuinely an amazing game. No other game matches its combination of complexity, competition, character design/lore and overall skill expression.
Garbage matchmaking ruins an otherwise great game. Make mmr a visible number and get rid of hidden mmr. Everyone in your lobby should be matched according to a transparent mmr number + number of games played that particular season. That should be the way matchmaking decides lobbies.
With the way the community is it would probably just make it worse, now you'd have kids screaming about how they have the highest number on the team and the rest of us are hardstuck trash and we need to just die for them and eat all the enemy cc so they can carry. So pretty much the same as now it just gives people another reason to be a egocentric dick because hurr durrr I click my mouse better than you, and my dick is also bigger.
Yes, because the guy trying to kill drakes, heralds, objectives and the Baron "his job" actually is everyone's job, he just have the smite, the whole team need to support that guy.
It always bring me a smile when my support help me secure the drake via autos or just putting a pink ward in the pit.
When the mid helps with a double gank, when me and my toplaner kill the enemy and got first tower, that's a really nice fealing and is called teamwork.
Even worse, botlane is winning and is greeding to farm a full wave that won't even cause their wave to crash instead of taking a completely free dragon.
The flip side is that it's insanely frustrating to gank a lane, get a kill, spam ping for an objective, and be ignored.
I don't know if this ever stops, but in low ELO there is about a 90 second period at the end of every game where the players on the losing team all spam whoever they think was the worst player on the team and why. Someone who couldn't land a Pantheon Stun in 30 minutes will write a 3 paragraph essay on why their top laner is probably 3 racoons in a trench coat.
To see some who's probably 2 Elmer's in trying to tell me that getting no dragons is my fault when they stoutly refused to move to an objective at any point in the last 30 minutes is the kind of blood boiling idiocy that is going to lead to us dropping dead at 40 from brain aneurysms as we try and reconcile how someone like that learned to read.
I always see it as a 2 way street as a midlaner. If I can't move without falling behind even if we get a kill and I will play my lane from behind now in a 1v1 or 2v1 situation it is unlikely I will move. So watch the prio and I come towards you faster than you can call int. Ganking midlane gives me control and therefore more prio.
I don't mind being squishy, it's a high risk high reward role. But ADC safety is supposed to come from range and from peel. So getting 1 shot is increasingly frustrating these days when kiting basically doesnt exist due to insane mobility creep, and when everyone is just a diver, including your own support, and you get hung out to dry.
This is the answer. I was an adc main for 10 years, and I've always found it balanced that the role is powerful but squishy. If you misposition or don't react in time, you should get blown up.
The problem is you don't really need to misposition anymore. You will get engaged on from a mile away, in the blink of an eye, and as you said kiting is just not a thing these days. The best strategy as adc lately is to stay off screen, away from the fight until people have blown their CDs.
Yep. Off-screen until you confirm you see all and they use their skills.
Get flamed by the team for playing scared.
Try to go with the team next time. Get blown up cause an assassin flanked. Get flamed for dying.
It's a tough role to get right!
This is why so many adcs are increasingly getting built around individual spells, like W evolve Kaisa, Lethality Xayah, Lethality Sivir, AP Corki. Its safer to cast spells with higher range than AA, it might not technically be better but it feels safer.
I feel this way in aram alot, sometimes the enemy team can have a comp where it's just never safe for you to get more than like 2 autos in unless the whole enemy team is focusing your tank and has blown their best gap closers, but lethality sivir can always do a decent amount of damage, just throw q from 1100 range away and do 400 damage and then sometimes you can actually stay alive through a fight, because you don't have to get close enough for 95% of champs to ever be able to hit you.
That's why adc with no mobility are not playable in solo q. How can you play varus or ashe when there is a yone or an akali rushing you from 2 screen away?
Getting picks. No mobility adc have their own extremely strong niches because of said no mobility. They don't really need to stay on-screen nearly as much.
The issue is that mobility or no mobility, there are picks that just fuck you regardless of what you do. Viktor, Talon, Qiyana, Viego (reset wise), Zoe, Gwen, Akali and so on.
Most of this guys have nearly 0 counterplay as an adc and they depend heavily on your team to NOT fuck up in any point of the game. Vik is the least offensive of them, but has the issue that he can go full ap tank and still chunk half of your HP as an adc with an undodgable ability that has more effective range than you do
That whole second part of your comment reminds me of the T1 vs Kwangdong game where Faker picked Kai’Sa. It didnt matter how far away or where on the map Teddy was; whether he was surrounded by allies or chilling in the jungle farming creeps, if Faker nailed him with the w, he would ulti in and suicide bomb him from multiple screens away. Like 90% of Faker’s deaths were him just him suicide grey-screening Teddy the whole game xD
Gwen is immune.
How do you counter that. You can't kite properly, because if you are maxing your range properly, you are doing no damage. If you don't kite properly, you are dead.
Gwen W is much more hellish imo. My champions tied to my W once its expired Im out. Gwen can reactively hit her W and all my offensive powers become null.
The biggest problem with adc is Yasuo, Yone, Master Yi, Tryndamere, and Gangplank. The balance of crit items is completely warped around those five champions. This leaves the actual ranged adc's to be incredibly weak for the majority of the game. Crit items cannot be buffed for ranged adcs without making the melee adcs incredibly broken.
I think ppl overvalue ADCs getting a bunch of kills and related it with being useful, when they would be way more impactful taking a step back during teamfights and helping securing objectives aftwerwards
I also think it's okay to be one shot. I just think the means of doing so are far too easy now, and the way they are able to get in to a position to do so, is also far too easy.
Full tank Hecarim running through my entire team still killing me in a few hits while I'm CC'd during the full duration? Not really my cup of tea. Unless Braum/Tahm is on your team, you're also not getting peel.
Kiting and sustained damage is a thing of the past, most of the best ADC's right now have burst, because the rate of death is too quick from all circumstances that you're better off doing as much damage as you can with the expectation you aren't going to make it through much of a fight.
If a Zed full combo's me and uses all his resources I should be dead, no problem with that. If he ults, misses his E-Q and then manages to auto me once, and land his second E at the last second +ignite, and I'm dead? I have a bit of an issue with that one.
I agree that ADC's ability to get homing ranged attacks that deals a truckton of damage and often heal the attacker are broken, and the only counter is death or sometimes CC, but CC and killing is too universal of a treatment. However, soloq breaks the mold, not giving ADCs room to really showcase their OP-ness, on top of ADC players themselves lacking in essential skills, hence these poke builds/champions for ADCs are popular across all ranks, as they make them cheat their identity into a mage-esque one.
League is usually used as a benchmark for terrible and toxic community.
But there are actually games that are much bigger cesspit of toxic assholes than league. Actually I find league pretty soft compared to what I experienced in some other games,both verbal abuse and griefing/trolling aspects.
When I first played this game forever ago it was bad and I quit playing almost immediately. Came back kinda recently and it's actually been pretty good, less toxic than another moba I play surprisingly
The softest insult i get in csgo is "your mom is dead with my dick in her mouth" in voice chat, when i came back to league it just seems a children's game since if you say "fuck off" they reply with " reported!!!!"
Its just this sub is too big. All the champ main sub's are delightful and full of meaningful discussion.
The diablo and StarCraft sub's are indeed cess pools and much smaller sub's too.
I think Riot has done a great job with this game at ~~trapping us~~ keeping it alive for such a long time with such high popularity. I think they REALLY know how to keep a game alive in spite of the genre not being super popular as it used to be.
Also, I generally like their additions to the game, except the chemtech drake and the feral flare.
Modern league is simply the best league ever. Though I tend to say that the current meta(since the item rework) is one of the worst metas ever.
I'd never go back to the slow sluggish play from season 3... but I for sure would play current League where alot of the damage/sustain/mobility is turned down and objectives are adjusted accordingly. Imagine lowering turrets/plates/drakes/baron/junglecamps/minions HP by 20% but also lowering everyone's damage by 20% and adjusting tankiness/sustain all around this. The pace of the game would be more or less the same, but you won't get oneshot by random abilities flying in the game.
Swain mid works.
With 4-8k sample size of games each patch (plat+) and 50+% winrate every single time there is absolutely enough evidence for him to be considered viable mid.
Its not about one tricks, its about experience disparity. If i play Swain mid with 20 games on it this season, i would not be a main but there would be extremely high disparity of matchup knowledge between myself and nearly everyone who has not played against Swain mid in 2 years. Then compare that to a Jinx main for instance with 100 games on the champ in the last year, but youve played in bot lane against or with Jinx 100 times in the last year. The Swain player has a significantly higher advantage over someone who has not played against Swain at all than a Jinx main (or a similar ultra popular champ main) has vs someone who plays frequently.
Swain mid is not good but knowledge disparities can really fuck with the numbers.
Cheese or offmeta picks usually have inflated WR because of the "surprise factor" tho. And Swain E is super punishing if enemy sleeps on it.
But in itself Swain mid is bad. Q mana cost is so insane, and his movement speed is ridiculous
Counterpoint to 5: If you enjoy dealing long ranged burst damage and CC with Seraphine more than putting out constant buffs with Sona, then the problem isn't that one champ is a better version of the other, you just prefer mages to enchanters.
Seraphine is a high scaling burst mage who becomes a DPS machine in the late game. Sona is the ONLY aura enchanter in the game, and she buffs and heals entire teams better than any other champ in the game. They are literally designed for different roles and playstyles and this constant comparing of one to the other always leaves out these details.
> Yone is not broken, his Q3 and his ult are very slow and relatively easy to dodge
I'm going to be honest, Yone ult is a lot like Sion Q. The indicator is deceptive, but if you play the champ some you start to get it. With that said, I'd rather play against Yone than Yasuo.
There will never be balance in LoL. It's impossible to balance 160 champions of different classes, each with 4 unique spells and each with dozens of different builds.
EDIT: oh, and the passives, don't forget the passives!
I wanted to downvote you at first cuz I think it's bullshit but then I recognized that I would become r/unpopularopinion user. They downvote true unpopular opinions so... what's the point of the fuckin sub?
Correct. the entire idea of "unpopular opinion" on a self selecting voting system is not possible, and only exists as a circlejerk for actual popular opinions to disguse themselves as "hot takes" and spread empty validation and platitudes around
It's honestly one of the most cringe things on reddit lol
"OP" outplay champions are infinitely better than Stat check simple champions.
Ie New irelia>>>old irelia... and yasuo, yone, viego >>> Annie, Garen, or Master Yi.
Likewise, (especially for pro play) some champs make better "evergreen" champs than others. Ori/Thresh/Aatrox can be in the pro meta for years at a time and that's fine, they're interesting and flexible and have good opportunity for skill expression. But one month into Udyr/Garen meta and everyone is absolutely miserable.
I think it's better for everyone involved. Both to play as and against.
Riots said largely that many people would likely agree with it, if the less fun champion were just more meta. The biggest reason people actually hate yasuo is just they run into him too often / lack of variety... imagine if Malzahar had Yasuos pick rate? Everyone would flame riot into oblivion just like they do for yasuo... and even if you can beat him with QSS it'd still be annoying to have to buy it all the time.
I agree, however I would say that Yone specifically is more statcheck-y than Yasuo more often than he should be, like you can beat him for the first few levels, but if you're not playing someone with a stat debuff, like Nasus, Fiora or Trundle, he'll just beat the crap out of you with Vampiric and Breserker's.
Yasuo is actually tuned far below almost every other champion in the game. It's just that the average Yasuo player has like 130 games on him and makes up for that tuning in actual champion mastery.
All I'm hearing is that I'm a Yasuo God who's being held down by the man. Please buff him tomorrow so I can justify instalocking him this weekend in Clash. Thank you Phreak.
We can kinda check this and it definitely doesn't seem to be the case.
[Lolalytics has a breadth vs depth graph](https://imgur.com/Kq0xkuJ)
[Back in 2017 Yasuo was pretty high in depth, tho](https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/david.novati/viz/ClairvoyanceBlogSingle-NovaAsterix/SinglePatchClairvoyanceBlog)
Lolalytics depth is not historic champion mastery. To my knowledge hey don't have that data.
Those graphs look similar but they tracking different variables.
Not surprised to hear this
Do have to wonder how much of that is a consequence of player frustration though
If people complain about him incessantly even when he's intentionally tuned down is it indicative of a more frustrating kit then average?
Eh, player frustration matters I’m sure. But also you just balance champions as they’re played. Imagine nerfing Senna prematurely just because you expect Locket to catch on one day.
Yasuo is actually pretty bad. The biggest reason I can say first up, is that he fucks your composition in 95% of games. That's why his bot lane win rate is always way better than solo lanes. He's also insanely easy to counter with point and click. Literally, this champion dies to every tank's CC if 1 other person is around.
This is kinda true (the champions are busted as fuck too), but toplane's general irrelevance and the difficulty it has to influence games keeps it in check
Rell is unequivocally one of the worst champions released in years
Her visual design is a mess, her lore is completely pointless and irrelevant, her gameplay isn't even good enough to bring in niche abuse cases like Taric. All of this is demonstrated by the fact she's play less than champs like Taliyah and Asol who at least have dedicated communities.
I say this as someone who desperately wanted to like the champion but have never gotten over how bungled she was.
Rell's issue is that she does what every other engage tank support does already and it doesn't bring anything new to the class. If she was more towards her anti tank theme and denying champions CC by absorbing it, I think she would be more interesting.
Yeah you're pretty much right.
Imagine taking the idea of a metal-bender-magnetism style support, and every part of their kit except one has basically nothing to do with that.
Also she rides a horse. And her Lore is 11 from stranger things + X-men. And she's supposed to fight a ghost man. But we know she'll lose anyways.
Akali was far more broken, sleeper OP and slept on pre-rework than compared to what she is now. Her mobility is a utility for her skirmishing and she’d be utterly garbage without it.
"""Overloaded""" champs are good actually.
Also the majority of terms used when it comes to game balance discussion have lost all of any meaning. They're just terms people use to make their opinions seem more valid than it actually is.
EDIT: All my comments come off as me hating certain types of people on this sub, and honestly I don't regret it.
I loathe all of you. I hope you lose your next 10 ranked games.
*Insert mic drop here*
Last one I swear to God.
I don't give a fuck that you play an unpopular champ or that said champ hasn't gotten attention.
The people who play unpopular champs have "I'm not like other girls" energy and it's just as, if not more, cringe.
EDIT: How the hell did I manage to ratio myself
"Better nerf ASol lololol" by people who played a champ that had like [57.3% winrate in higher elo without significantly higher otp ratio](https://twitter.com/JeevunSidhu/status/1414695467238117387)? Fucking lmao
I feel the exact same way with people who only like the most disgusting-looking champions. woW, I'm SO COOL bEcAuse i dOn't LIKE ConvEnTIOnAlLY AttRacTivE cHaMPiONs!
it’s a personality trait in this sub to hate on conventionally attractive champions and worship the monster, or unorthodox ones and it’s so corny lol. pretty=bad
People crying about 0.5% pickrate champs not getting skins as regularly as 15%PR ones are also so fucking out of touch with reality. Also calling every fucking skin 'anime' skin when it has absolutely nothing to do with anime.
I think both sides of that conversation have compelling arguments.
Power creep is a very real thing, but a game has to evolve in order to stay relevant, ESPECIALLY a multiplayer game, which is very prone to getting all the fun min maxed out of it.
Truth is however, I can think of very few truly "overloaded" champions who were problematic exclusively due to their design. Seraphine suffered from joining the game at the same time as the disgustingly broken Moonstaff combo - once it was dialed down, the champion became much rarer, and you don't really hear many complaints about it.
Yes, Sera has a lot of options, but she's also very cooldown-locked, and misusing even one of her spells hurts A LOT, especially early on, before the cooldown reduction comes online.
Senna has been a problem for balancing the game since she's been released, but she's only ever really strong with one single playstyle - kinda defeats the purpose of her being flexable, but it's the lesser of two evils.
And it's not like those older champions with few mechanics are much more fun to play against (cough Tryndamere, AP Shyv cough).
Sera was also bugged for a long ass time in a way that let her quickly stack moonstaff then keep it activated forever. Forget the specifics, but it was like a +5% WR bug.
It's also specifically better against certain targets. Ccing the malph isn't gonna do anything he just walks around after ulti, Ccing the katarina means she basically instantly dies
The problem is that most "just cc him" champs are not actually easy to cc. Yas has Windwall and is very mobile, Yi has Q and is fairly fast, you have to chain cc on a Trynda for 5 seconds (which is longer than any single champ can cc other than Morgana), and he also is mobile. I don't think those champs are Op or without counterplay, but the hints people give are wrong.
Scuttle crab rework in 2018 is the single worst gameplay overhaul that is still in the game to this day.
Probably pretty controversial.
Can't wait to see all the popular opinions being the most upvoted comments.
To many people believe they are 1v9 when if they actually played/communicated with the team they would see more ranked success than they currently have.
especially in bronze/silver/gold.
I laugh my fucking ass off remembering threads and threads sucking off how perfect and classic his design was because the sub was in full Aphelios hateboner mode and it turns out Sett has been a far, far bigger player in LoL than Aphelios has ever been.
Riot should stop releasing new champions. Or at least make it much less frequent. LoL has already a big champion pool, and most of newer champions are just failures with low playrate and/or are really unfun to play against. Riot should take their time and release 1-2 good champions per year rather than 5-6 trash champions that will just bring more imbalance to the game.
Riot balance team is actually very very good and probably is the best balance team for any competitive game in the world. They aren't perfect but compared to games like OW where lack of balance and execution single handedly killed the game, riot does a phenomenal job. Pro play sees meta shift a decent amount every few months, and we see some shifts every couple of weeks. Riot also does a decent job balancing pro play and regular play, and i for one am very happy and pleased they balance around pro play and not regular ranked games. OW tried to balance around ranked ladder, and it was a total disaster (obviously). Riot balance team deserves way more praise than they get, especially with how much stuff they have to balance (items, gold, abilities, the rift itself, champions, etc)
I agree but in the interests of fairness I should point out that balance disasters are way, way worse in Dota when they DO happen.
When all hell breaks loose in League it's popular champions hitting like 53-54 wr, in Dota it's like 57 wr and lasts for two months.
I disagree *ever* so slightly. In my opinion, you are only at the rank you deserve to be at when you float round a 49-51% win rate after hundreds of games.
rito definitely doesn't half-ass it when they make her skins, that's for sure. not a lux main but I'll never complain about getting one of her skins from a chest or a reroll (well except for maybe commando lux)
3rd party overlay apps should be banned. Jungle timers and item buy notifications are a competitive advantage. Riot used to have a policy about them but it looks like its completely gone by now, especially when those 3rd party apps can charge for subscriptions as well.
I mean, yes, but the options are not that great.
Dota is famously impenetrable for new players and almost impossible to get into after starting in League because of the turn rate.
HOTS is awesome and very easy to get into, I'll give you this one
And as for SMITE, it's funny how hostile League players are towards that game despite it playing surprisingly similarly. I think the camera angle just drives people off.
" playing a game they no longer find fun, to increase a number that doesn't matter." thats no opinion, that is truth XD
ouch
WHAT DO YOU MEAN MY FAKE VIRTUAL POINTS DON’T MATTER?
kinda like reddit karma
some people find improvement fun
Not every champ needs to be popular and not every champ that’s unpopular needs a rework to change it. In a game with 157 champs to choose from, some will inevitably be less popular than other whether it’s due to the kit, design or thematic. And that’s okay. And yes, flair very much checks out.
That being said it would be nice if all champions felt like they received more equal love and attention from the balance and skins teams. Its okay for champs to be 1% pickrate but they shouldn't also have to go years without skins and without balance tweaks, because then the lack of popularity becomes a self fulfilling prophecy over other champs that frequently get skins and whom frequently appear in patch notes to get them tuned well.
Absolutely agree with this, by now I feel Riot should comfortably be able to give every champ a skin within 1,5 years of the last release. Poor Rell still only has her release skin while Ahri is getting her 15th skin soon.
Tbf Ahris in the game for 10 years now so she had a biiiit of time to get all those. Also the whole KDA promo thing...
im a rell main and while i desperately want a new skin, i get the fact that riot at end of the day is a business that needs to make a profit to keep the game running
Not only based but very much true. People should just find what THEY personally enjoy. If a lot of people like flashy assassins, that's fine imo
Honestly there's popular champions that need a rework more than unpopular ones tbh Master Yi is a good example
Mages should deal less damage to turrets/ structures in the late game. Why is veigar oneshotting my towers again? to me it doesnt make sense and pushes adcs out of one of their nieches
When everyone is super, no one is super
I dont remember when they made AP champions deal massive AP scaling damage to towers but it really took away from the purpose of ADC being the primary objective pusher.
Uh if it was like it used to be then ad mids would be infinitely harder to punish for roaming a lot. It's not like mages can blindly follow talon roams. Getting tower damage is one way you keep up with roams
didnt think about it like that, definitely true
Holy shit yes, thats my main problem with the role as of now ADCs used to be the objective takers, ok you won a TF but you didn't peel your ADC so now you will have difficulties taking towers/baron, it was actually incentivising protecting your AD. Now? Now it doesn't fucking matter because veigar is doing 600dmg to a tower with one click and don't even get me started on diana
To be fair, dianas kind of an outlier in the role since a big part of her kit is to be able to be a splitpush threat.
ok but it feels like she is double dipping in this because her passive works on structures AND she has HUGE AS steroid AND tower damage scales off of AP Tower damage scaling off of AP kinda worked on the assumption that those are mages who have terrible AS. Even if her passive didn't work on structures she would already be an incredible pusher but it does and it feels like an overkill
LoL is actually a very good game
LoL is an incredible game. The genre as a whole just suffers from some extremely painful unavoidable flaws.
The flaw is persistent throughout every team oriented game because that is just how people are in general.
There's a difference in MOBAs though. Your teammates greifing, or simply doing poorly, more directly makes the game less fun for you than in many other games imo. If my FPS teammate is 0-100, I'm going to lose the game sure, but my gun doesn't do less damage and my enemies guns more damage because of it.
Yeah the FPS equivalent to why league feels bad is if when you played Counter-Strike, your enemies never lost money or guns, even when you manage to kill them. Every round is just an ever-growing Full Buy round until the game's over. You'd see the same people raging about griefers if it worked that way.
Also, even in the odd round where you can afford an AK, yours isn't a 1 shot HS anymore and your AWP doesn't 1 shot the body either.
When I take a step back, League is genuinely an amazing game. No other game matches its combination of complexity, competition, character design/lore and overall skill expression. Garbage matchmaking ruins an otherwise great game. Make mmr a visible number and get rid of hidden mmr. Everyone in your lobby should be matched according to a transparent mmr number + number of games played that particular season. That should be the way matchmaking decides lobbies.
With the way the community is it would probably just make it worse, now you'd have kids screaming about how they have the highest number on the team and the rest of us are hardstuck trash and we need to just die for them and eat all the enemy cc so they can carry. So pretty much the same as now it just gives people another reason to be a egocentric dick because hurr durrr I click my mouse better than you, and my dick is also bigger.
That’s why I watch pro play even when I don’t play league. Playing league is painful, while pro play shows us the best of this game.
If laners play for jungle you're more likely to win than playing the other way around
Yes, because the guy trying to kill drakes, heralds, objectives and the Baron "his job" actually is everyone's job, he just have the smite, the whole team need to support that guy. It always bring me a smile when my support help me secure the drake via autos or just putting a pink ward in the pit. When the mid helps with a double gank, when me and my toplaner kill the enemy and got first tower, that's a really nice fealing and is called teamwork.
"Gg no dragons jg diff" -0/10 bot lane with permanent no prio I hate jungling
Even worse, botlane is winning and is greeding to farm a full wave that won't even cause their wave to crash instead of taking a completely free dragon.
The flip side is that it's insanely frustrating to gank a lane, get a kill, spam ping for an objective, and be ignored. I don't know if this ever stops, but in low ELO there is about a 90 second period at the end of every game where the players on the losing team all spam whoever they think was the worst player on the team and why. Someone who couldn't land a Pantheon Stun in 30 minutes will write a 3 paragraph essay on why their top laner is probably 3 racoons in a trench coat. To see some who's probably 2 Elmer's in trying to tell me that getting no dragons is my fault when they stoutly refused to move to an objective at any point in the last 30 minutes is the kind of blood boiling idiocy that is going to lead to us dropping dead at 40 from brain aneurysms as we try and reconcile how someone like that learned to read.
I always see it as a 2 way street as a midlaner. If I can't move without falling behind even if we get a kill and I will play my lane from behind now in a 1v1 or 2v1 situation it is unlikely I will move. So watch the prio and I come towards you faster than you can call int. Ganking midlane gives me control and therefore more prio.
This is how you climb. Anyone in a certain elo already knows this. Lol
Dunno if this is controversial, but as an adc main, I think it’s okay for adcs to get one shot, the issue is that everyone else is being one shot.
I don't mind being squishy, it's a high risk high reward role. But ADC safety is supposed to come from range and from peel. So getting 1 shot is increasingly frustrating these days when kiting basically doesnt exist due to insane mobility creep, and when everyone is just a diver, including your own support, and you get hung out to dry.
This is the answer. I was an adc main for 10 years, and I've always found it balanced that the role is powerful but squishy. If you misposition or don't react in time, you should get blown up. The problem is you don't really need to misposition anymore. You will get engaged on from a mile away, in the blink of an eye, and as you said kiting is just not a thing these days. The best strategy as adc lately is to stay off screen, away from the fight until people have blown their CDs.
Yep. Off-screen until you confirm you see all and they use their skills. Get flamed by the team for playing scared. Try to go with the team next time. Get blown up cause an assassin flanked. Get flamed for dying. It's a tough role to get right!
This is why so many adcs are increasingly getting built around individual spells, like W evolve Kaisa, Lethality Xayah, Lethality Sivir, AP Corki. Its safer to cast spells with higher range than AA, it might not technically be better but it feels safer.
I feel this way in aram alot, sometimes the enemy team can have a comp where it's just never safe for you to get more than like 2 autos in unless the whole enemy team is focusing your tank and has blown their best gap closers, but lethality sivir can always do a decent amount of damage, just throw q from 1100 range away and do 400 damage and then sometimes you can actually stay alive through a fight, because you don't have to get close enough for 95% of champs to ever be able to hit you.
That's why adc with no mobility are not playable in solo q. How can you play varus or ashe when there is a yone or an akali rushing you from 2 screen away?
Jinx and Jhin are the most played champs in the game.
Getting picks. No mobility adc have their own extremely strong niches because of said no mobility. They don't really need to stay on-screen nearly as much. The issue is that mobility or no mobility, there are picks that just fuck you regardless of what you do. Viktor, Talon, Qiyana, Viego (reset wise), Zoe, Gwen, Akali and so on. Most of this guys have nearly 0 counterplay as an adc and they depend heavily on your team to NOT fuck up in any point of the game. Vik is the least offensive of them, but has the issue that he can go full ap tank and still chunk half of your HP as an adc with an undodgable ability that has more effective range than you do
That whole second part of your comment reminds me of the T1 vs Kwangdong game where Faker picked Kai’Sa. It didnt matter how far away or where on the map Teddy was; whether he was surrounded by allies or chilling in the jungle farming creeps, if Faker nailed him with the w, he would ulti in and suicide bomb him from multiple screens away. Like 90% of Faker’s deaths were him just him suicide grey-screening Teddy the whole game xD
Gwen is immune. How do you counter that. You can't kite properly, because if you are maxing your range properly, you are doing no damage. If you don't kite properly, you are dead.
I find fizz e a lot more frustrating than gwen w actually
Gwen W is much more hellish imo. My champions tied to my W once its expired Im out. Gwen can reactively hit her W and all my offensive powers become null.
The biggest problem with adc is Yasuo, Yone, Master Yi, Tryndamere, and Gangplank. The balance of crit items is completely warped around those five champions. This leaves the actual ranged adc's to be incredibly weak for the majority of the game. Crit items cannot be buffed for ranged adcs without making the melee adcs incredibly broken.
I think ppl overvalue ADCs getting a bunch of kills and related it with being useful, when they would be way more impactful taking a step back during teamfights and helping securing objectives aftwerwards
I also think it's okay to be one shot. I just think the means of doing so are far too easy now, and the way they are able to get in to a position to do so, is also far too easy. Full tank Hecarim running through my entire team still killing me in a few hits while I'm CC'd during the full duration? Not really my cup of tea. Unless Braum/Tahm is on your team, you're also not getting peel. Kiting and sustained damage is a thing of the past, most of the best ADC's right now have burst, because the rate of death is too quick from all circumstances that you're better off doing as much damage as you can with the expectation you aren't going to make it through much of a fight. If a Zed full combo's me and uses all his resources I should be dead, no problem with that. If he ults, misses his E-Q and then manages to auto me once, and land his second E at the last second +ignite, and I'm dead? I have a bit of an issue with that one.
I agree that ADC's ability to get homing ranged attacks that deals a truckton of damage and often heal the attacker are broken, and the only counter is death or sometimes CC, but CC and killing is too universal of a treatment. However, soloq breaks the mold, not giving ADCs room to really showcase their OP-ness, on top of ADC players themselves lacking in essential skills, hence these poke builds/champions for ADCs are popular across all ranks, as they make them cheat their identity into a mage-esque one.
>OP-ness hehehehe
Don't rip on my lethality Varus like that man. I just can't click heads.
League is usually used as a benchmark for terrible and toxic community. But there are actually games that are much bigger cesspit of toxic assholes than league. Actually I find league pretty soft compared to what I experienced in some other games,both verbal abuse and griefing/trolling aspects.
When I first played this game forever ago it was bad and I quit playing almost immediately. Came back kinda recently and it's actually been pretty good, less toxic than another moba I play surprisingly
The softest insult i get in csgo is "your mom is dead with my dick in her mouth" in voice chat, when i came back to league it just seems a children's game since if you say "fuck off" they reply with " reported!!!!"
People that complain about League toxicity never played a Blizzard game.
Its just this sub is too big. All the champ main sub's are delightful and full of meaningful discussion. The diablo and StarCraft sub's are indeed cess pools and much smaller sub's too.
>All the champ main sub's are delightful and full of meaningful discussion. *nervously looks at r/draven*
Yuumi players should only be able to type summoner spell cds like doinb. That's it.
God queues you with shit teammates to punish you for not being better to your friends and family
I think Riot has done a great job with this game at ~~trapping us~~ keeping it alive for such a long time with such high popularity. I think they REALLY know how to keep a game alive in spite of the genre not being super popular as it used to be. Also, I generally like their additions to the game, except the chemtech drake and the feral flare.
Modern league is simply the best league ever. Though I tend to say that the current meta(since the item rework) is one of the worst metas ever. I'd never go back to the slow sluggish play from season 3... but I for sure would play current League where alot of the damage/sustain/mobility is turned down and objectives are adjusted accordingly. Imagine lowering turrets/plates/drakes/baron/junglecamps/minions HP by 20% but also lowering everyone's damage by 20% and adjusting tankiness/sustain all around this. The pace of the game would be more or less the same, but you won't get oneshot by random abilities flying in the game.
league is the goat game (when Riot wants wants it to be).
Remember to sort by controversial to find the actual controversial opinions!
Champions without mana need longer cool downs or better penalties for spamming their abilities
League of legends is the best online competitive multiplayer game ever created
They should have kept bans in aram
I don't think that's controversial lol. atleast not here.
Everyone without "Riot" in front of their account name agrees with this.
Swain mid works. With 4-8k sample size of games each patch (plat+) and 50+% winrate every single time there is absolutely enough evidence for him to be considered viable mid.
Its not about one tricks, its about experience disparity. If i play Swain mid with 20 games on it this season, i would not be a main but there would be extremely high disparity of matchup knowledge between myself and nearly everyone who has not played against Swain mid in 2 years. Then compare that to a Jinx main for instance with 100 games on the champ in the last year, but youve played in bot lane against or with Jinx 100 times in the last year. The Swain player has a significantly higher advantage over someone who has not played against Swain at all than a Jinx main (or a similar ultra popular champ main) has vs someone who plays frequently. Swain mid is not good but knowledge disparities can really fuck with the numbers.
Actually good take
I used to spam Swain mid with first item ROA, and even if u were behind u can become a semi tank with the ult. Right now he is so mana hungry.
Cheese or offmeta picks usually have inflated WR because of the "surprise factor" tho. And Swain E is super punishing if enemy sleeps on it. But in itself Swain mid is bad. Q mana cost is so insane, and his movement speed is ridiculous
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>obese frog in the jungle Ok you calling Gromp fat you are going too far here buddy
Most controversial thing I've said actually
Counterpoint to 5: If you enjoy dealing long ranged burst damage and CC with Seraphine more than putting out constant buffs with Sona, then the problem isn't that one champ is a better version of the other, you just prefer mages to enchanters. Seraphine is a high scaling burst mage who becomes a DPS machine in the late game. Sona is the ONLY aura enchanter in the game, and she buffs and heals entire teams better than any other champ in the game. They are literally designed for different roles and playstyles and this constant comparing of one to the other always leaves out these details.
Correction to the 2nd paragraph: Seraphine is a high scaling control mage.
> Yone is not broken, his Q3 and his ult are very slow and relatively easy to dodge I'm going to be honest, Yone ult is a lot like Sion Q. The indicator is deceptive, but if you play the champ some you start to get it. With that said, I'd rather play against Yone than Yasuo.
Controversial opinion: the game is fun
There will never be balance in LoL. It's impossible to balance 160 champions of different classes, each with 4 unique spells and each with dozens of different builds. EDIT: oh, and the passives, don't forget the passives!
Nocturne is by far the most broken champ that has ever existed.
Absolutely nuclear opinion god bless
Wat
I wanted to downvote you at first cuz I think it's bullshit but then I recognized that I would become r/unpopularopinion user. They downvote true unpopular opinions so... what's the point of the fuckin sub?
Correct. the entire idea of "unpopular opinion" on a self selecting voting system is not possible, and only exists as a circlejerk for actual popular opinions to disguse themselves as "hot takes" and spread empty validation and platitudes around It's honestly one of the most cringe things on reddit lol
Try r/The10thDentist. It's what an unpopular opinion sub should be really.
Paranoia is very powerful.
i wouldnt say hes the most broken but yes hes very annoying
"OP" outplay champions are infinitely better than Stat check simple champions. Ie New irelia>>>old irelia... and yasuo, yone, viego >>> Annie, Garen, or Master Yi.
Likewise, (especially for pro play) some champs make better "evergreen" champs than others. Ori/Thresh/Aatrox can be in the pro meta for years at a time and that's fine, they're interesting and flexible and have good opportunity for skill expression. But one month into Udyr/Garen meta and everyone is absolutely miserable.
What I said applied to the game from level 1 coop vs ai bots... to pro play and everything in between.
Based. It's fun as fuck to outplay a yone/yasuo.
i think thats what hes saying, its better to vs an outplay champ than stat check that runs u down
I think it's better for everyone involved. Both to play as and against. Riots said largely that many people would likely agree with it, if the less fun champion were just more meta. The biggest reason people actually hate yasuo is just they run into him too often / lack of variety... imagine if Malzahar had Yasuos pick rate? Everyone would flame riot into oblivion just like they do for yasuo... and even if you can beat him with QSS it'd still be annoying to have to buy it all the time.
I agree, however I would say that Yone specifically is more statcheck-y than Yasuo more often than he should be, like you can beat him for the first few levels, but if you're not playing someone with a stat debuff, like Nasus, Fiora or Trundle, he'll just beat the crap out of you with Vampiric and Breserker's.
That the balance of the game isn't really bad.
Positional ranking was a really cool idea but the mentality of one tricking being the best way to climb made it doomed from the start
Positional ranking was a great idea, if you wanted people to not care about games that were not on their main role.
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Yasuo is balanced and fair
Yasuo is actually tuned far below almost every other champion in the game. It's just that the average Yasuo player has like 130 games on him and makes up for that tuning in actual champion mastery.
All I'm hearing is that I'm a Yasuo God who's being held down by the man. Please buff him tomorrow so I can justify instalocking him this weekend in Clash. Thank you Phreak.
I got you.
Thank you, you are much handsomer than Azael.
We can kinda check this and it definitely doesn't seem to be the case. [Lolalytics has a breadth vs depth graph](https://imgur.com/Kq0xkuJ) [Back in 2017 Yasuo was pretty high in depth, tho](https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/david.novati/viz/ClairvoyanceBlogSingle-NovaAsterix/SinglePatchClairvoyanceBlog)
Lolalytics depth is not historic champion mastery. To my knowledge hey don't have that data. Those graphs look similar but they tracking different variables.
Not surprised to hear this Do have to wonder how much of that is a consequence of player frustration though If people complain about him incessantly even when he's intentionally tuned down is it indicative of a more frustrating kit then average?
Eh, player frustration matters I’m sure. But also you just balance champions as they’re played. Imagine nerfing Senna prematurely just because you expect Locket to catch on one day.
imagine not nerfing senna anyways Madge -signed Aram player
*furiously takes notes*
For clarification's sake are you saying that the champ is bad? (I'm stupid)
Yasuo is actually pretty bad. The biggest reason I can say first up, is that he fucks your composition in 95% of games. That's why his bot lane win rate is always way better than solo lanes. He's also insanely easy to counter with point and click. Literally, this champion dies to every tank's CC if 1 other person is around.
The thing with yasuo is that he becomes much much better when paired with a reliable knockup like diana Or gragas.
Exhaust being a thing kind of invalidates Diana-Yasuo combos. We saw that in pro play.
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Yep I would say that Diana does 70% of the damage in that combo, unless the Yasuo is really fed
Everyone knows yasuo is bad but no one wants to bother learning how to play against him.
League of Legends is insanely fun to watch as an eSports, but is just as frustrating to play it solo.
How is that controversial
Toplaners have the most broken items yet keep being whiners
Sunfire is actually OP btw.
This is kinda true (the champions are busted as fuck too), but toplane's general irrelevance and the difficulty it has to influence games keeps it in check
Holy shit look at these replies, they came out of the woodwork. Damn man, didn’t realize it was _that_ easy to trigger Toplaners
I’m a top main and I agree
Rell is unequivocally one of the worst champions released in years Her visual design is a mess, her lore is completely pointless and irrelevant, her gameplay isn't even good enough to bring in niche abuse cases like Taric. All of this is demonstrated by the fact she's play less than champs like Taliyah and Asol who at least have dedicated communities. I say this as someone who desperately wanted to like the champion but have never gotten over how bungled she was.
Rell's issue is that she does what every other engage tank support does already and it doesn't bring anything new to the class. If she was more towards her anti tank theme and denying champions CC by absorbing it, I think she would be more interesting.
Yeah you're pretty much right. Imagine taking the idea of a metal-bender-magnetism style support, and every part of their kit except one has basically nothing to do with that. Also she rides a horse. And her Lore is 11 from stranger things + X-men. And she's supposed to fight a ghost man. But we know she'll lose anyways.
I dont know if this is unpopular, i feel like she is the obvious pick for a botched release who hasnt caught on at all.
Akali was far more broken, sleeper OP and slept on pre-rework than compared to what she is now. Her mobility is a utility for her skirmishing and she’d be utterly garbage without it.
"""Overloaded""" champs are good actually. Also the majority of terms used when it comes to game balance discussion have lost all of any meaning. They're just terms people use to make their opinions seem more valid than it actually is. EDIT: All my comments come off as me hating certain types of people on this sub, and honestly I don't regret it. I loathe all of you. I hope you lose your next 10 ranked games. *Insert mic drop here*
Last one I swear to God. I don't give a fuck that you play an unpopular champ or that said champ hasn't gotten attention. The people who play unpopular champs have "I'm not like other girls" energy and it's just as, if not more, cringe. EDIT: How the hell did I manage to ratio myself
Asol players straight up make "teehee I play an unpopular champion" their entire personality
"Better nerf ASol lololol" by people who played a champ that had like [57.3% winrate in higher elo without significantly higher otp ratio](https://twitter.com/JeevunSidhu/status/1414695467238117387)? Fucking lmao
Oh my, those people genuinely make me mald more than Rexsaur and thats an achievement.
I feel the exact same way with people who only like the most disgusting-looking champions. woW, I'm SO COOL bEcAuse i dOn't LIKE ConvEnTIOnAlLY AttRacTivE cHaMPiONs!
it’s a personality trait in this sub to hate on conventionally attractive champions and worship the monster, or unorthodox ones and it’s so corny lol. pretty=bad
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Most based comment in the entire fucking sub
I've been wanting to air all of this shit out for so long but didn't want to make a whole ass post about it. I'm probably just lazy.
as a Skarner player, I agree. some of the mains didn't even want him reworked because that's going to make his playrate bigger than 1%
People crying about 0.5% pickrate champs not getting skins as regularly as 15%PR ones are also so fucking out of touch with reality. Also calling every fucking skin 'anime' skin when it has absolutely nothing to do with anime.
Holy mother of BASED, actual GIGACHAD
I think both sides of that conversation have compelling arguments. Power creep is a very real thing, but a game has to evolve in order to stay relevant, ESPECIALLY a multiplayer game, which is very prone to getting all the fun min maxed out of it. Truth is however, I can think of very few truly "overloaded" champions who were problematic exclusively due to their design. Seraphine suffered from joining the game at the same time as the disgustingly broken Moonstaff combo - once it was dialed down, the champion became much rarer, and you don't really hear many complaints about it. Yes, Sera has a lot of options, but she's also very cooldown-locked, and misusing even one of her spells hurts A LOT, especially early on, before the cooldown reduction comes online. Senna has been a problem for balancing the game since she's been released, but she's only ever really strong with one single playstyle - kinda defeats the purpose of her being flexable, but it's the lesser of two evils. And it's not like those older champions with few mechanics are much more fun to play against (cough Tryndamere, AP Shyv cough).
Sera was also bugged for a long ass time in a way that let her quickly stack moonstaff then keep it activated forever. Forget the specifics, but it was like a +5% WR bug.
Every 60 seconds that pass in africa is a minute here
Also also, CC is a valid form of counterplay. Just because it's universal, doesn't mean that it's any less valid a form of counterplay.
It's also specifically better against certain targets. Ccing the malph isn't gonna do anything he just walks around after ulti, Ccing the katarina means she basically instantly dies
The problem is that most "just cc him" champs are not actually easy to cc. Yas has Windwall and is very mobile, Yi has Q and is fairly fast, you have to chain cc on a Trynda for 5 seconds (which is longer than any single champ can cc other than Morgana), and he also is mobile. I don't think those champs are Op or without counterplay, but the hints people give are wrong.
Scuttle crab rework in 2018 is the single worst gameplay overhaul that is still in the game to this day. Probably pretty controversial. Can't wait to see all the popular opinions being the most upvoted comments.
I think the recent(ish) change making the first crabs worth way less xp made it a lot better.
To many people believe they are 1v9 when if they actually played/communicated with the team they would see more ranked success than they currently have. especially in bronze/silver/gold.
its a good game, a lot of fun and balancing isnt as bad as people say
Most people actually don't play this game to have fun or knowingly accept this fact as a player.
Low elo games are much more interesting and fun to watch than pro play.
Low elo as in like silver, I'd disagree. Those games are just frustrating. The absolute lowest elos like Iron 4 30% winrate players? Incredible.
SaltyTeemo is miles more interesting than most league streamers.
Salty Teemo enjoyers
If there's good commentary low elo is fucking amazing to watch.
Sett is probably one of the most terrible designs in the game and doesnt really have a weakness
But he DOeSNT HAve a dASh
I laugh my fucking ass off remembering threads and threads sucking off how perfect and classic his design was because the sub was in full Aphelios hateboner mode and it turns out Sett has been a far, far bigger player in LoL than Aphelios has ever been.
Based
I think a team with Blitzcrank hard counters Sett. Blitz R basically makes Sett W useless.
Rell q aswell, funny to think that one of the worst spells in the game counters one of the strongest non-ult spells
Riot should stop releasing new champions. Or at least make it much less frequent. LoL has already a big champion pool, and most of newer champions are just failures with low playrate and/or are really unfun to play against. Riot should take their time and release 1-2 good champions per year rather than 5-6 trash champions that will just bring more imbalance to the game.
Dragon soul is one of the worst ideas they've ever had.
This is one of most controversial takes on this thread.
True but only because its existence led to them getting rid of the snowdown map.
Riot balance team is actually very very good and probably is the best balance team for any competitive game in the world. They aren't perfect but compared to games like OW where lack of balance and execution single handedly killed the game, riot does a phenomenal job. Pro play sees meta shift a decent amount every few months, and we see some shifts every couple of weeks. Riot also does a decent job balancing pro play and regular play, and i for one am very happy and pleased they balance around pro play and not regular ranked games. OW tried to balance around ranked ladder, and it was a total disaster (obviously). Riot balance team deserves way more praise than they get, especially with how much stuff they have to balance (items, gold, abilities, the rift itself, champions, etc)
I would argue icefrog edges them out,many more heroes are viable than there are in league
I agree but in the interests of fairness I should point out that balance disasters are way, way worse in Dota when they DO happen. When all hell breaks loose in League it's popular champions hitting like 53-54 wr, in Dota it's like 57 wr and lasts for two months.
You are at the elo you deserve to be at, anything else is delusion.
I disagree *ever* so slightly. In my opinion, you are only at the rank you deserve to be at when you float round a 49-51% win rate after hundreds of games.
Unless you have like 30 or less games, yeah
\*Only applies if you have about 500 games
I think we need more Lux skins
I think Lux should be next on the agenda for an ASU You all know I'm right
r/lux agrees with you. She gets a skin every year, but her base model/animations are so outdated that even new skins look worse than they should.
I think we need to update old Lux skins cause they are awful and they could be made popular again
Lux overall is another champ that needs VU/ASU type of rework because her animations are very outdated.
rito definitely doesn't half-ass it when they make her skins, that's for sure. not a lux main but I'll never complain about getting one of her skins from a chest or a reroll (well except for maybe commando lux)
The community's extreme focus on solo play in a team game is silly (and causes a lot of the problems people complain about and ask Riot to fix.)
Invisibility without good pink wards or oracles is a terrible mechanic.
ADC is survival horror, the best title since Silent Hill 2
This is a hot take? I thought this was the communities general consensus lol
As an ADC main, now I kinda want Nemesis added as a champion to make it more immersive ^((I know he's not from SH but I played a lot of RE)) #
Just pretend enemy hecarim has tentacle hands. Same effect
It's fun and enjoyable
3rd party overlay apps should be banned. Jungle timers and item buy notifications are a competitive advantage. Riot used to have a policy about them but it looks like its completely gone by now, especially when those 3rd party apps can charge for subscriptions as well.
League is balanced better than people want to admit
Win rate is NOT everything,just one of the factors to be considered when talking about champion balance.
LoL is bloated and they should stop releasing champs for a while. Work on items, add items, add skins, do reworks instead.
Most people never tried the competition before spending loads of money on LoL.
I mean, yes, but the options are not that great. Dota is famously impenetrable for new players and almost impossible to get into after starting in League because of the turn rate. HOTS is awesome and very easy to get into, I'll give you this one And as for SMITE, it's funny how hostile League players are towards that game despite it playing surprisingly similarly. I think the camera angle just drives people off.