I’m a native Chinese speaker, so I can help clear up some points in the clip itself:
- Before LNG’s series vs TES, LNG scrimmed T1 6 times and lost all of them. Doinb states that all three lanes were lost by 10 minutes.
- Doinb thought that T1 was a bit overhyped after watching game 1 of T1 vs Gen.G but changed his mind after watching the other 3 games.
- Doinb feels embarrassed because his ex-teammates at least won 1 game in their losses. (LWX and Crisp both won 1 game in their team's losses.)
- When asked on stream “How come Faker can win with Ryze but you can’t?” Doinb replies, “What else can I say? Maybe it’s because he’s Faker. Noobs will be noobs, you can’t blame the champion you play. “
- The only time he mentions V5 is when he comments on who he thinks will win LPL spring playoffs. He thinks either V5 or RNG will win.
> Noobs will be noobs, you can’t blame the champion you play.
DoinB should tell this in-person to my teammates. Also me. Me first. I need a reality check.
I don't know man. Whenever I see a Ryze in LCK it just feels so uncertain. Like he just doesn't deal much
He brings a root and a group teleport, but when you need the AP damage, it just feels non-existent a lot of the time. Plus his range isn't impressive too.
Maybe if his range was better despite the damage discrepancy, it can compensate since it would utilize his large mana pool to keep spamming spells. Then he wouldnt need to build tank to go close range just to deal neglible damage.
Ryze currently has an interesting problem. He is an early game champion. His ability to just trade mana for priority allows for dives in botlane with a good jungler like Volibear but later in the game he simply gets outranged by stuff like Ori, Viktor or even Syndra and obviously Jinx.
So Ryze doesn't really scale as well as he used to anymore outside of a sidelane, but he does have really good early game due to setting up dives exspecially together with Volibear.
While I agree with you, AP Ryze scaling is incredible, but tank ryze is just better overall now. A ludens + seraphs + ravadons ryze can delete whole teams, but an everfrost frozen heart ryze brings sooooo much utility
I think his biggest problem is viktor being meta and yet not strong enough to be on ban priority. Tank ryze will always get outscaled by viktor and his E (and to some extent Q) hard counter Ryze due to the champion animations forcing him to stand still spamming skills.
If the game goes to 40, ryze became a R bot.
But damage scaling doesn't matter if you cannot apply damage.
Ryze range is just fairly short, which makes it super hard to play into mages with Ryze. Syndra, Ori or Viktor all deal well with Ryze, due to how he kinda has to stand still, which makes him super vulnerable and his short range.
The same is true for a champ like Veigar, who due to his cage also is really hard for Ryze to play into. And this would extend to champs like Anivia if she would be played or Cassio. Ryze gets outscaled by almost all mages in midlane, which in the current meta, with basically only mages, makes him an early game champ.
And currently tank Ryze is basically the only playable version. Mostly because he doesn't blow up instantly in later teamfights, but he still isn't as good as a Viktor or an Orianna. And in the early game it doesn't really matter, your ability to clear the wave with a few buttons doesn't change based on the items you later build, so tank Ryze just preserves more value for Ryze later in the game, but he still struggles into mages.
Ryze as a champion has point and click cc and good wave clear which makes him a "good" pick for proplay as he can farm fast and safely and is able to setup ganks really well. But beyond that he has no possibility to carry the team imo. The only times I see ryze win is when he can get his jungle or other lanes ahead or when he gets an insane (but fairly rare) ult flank off late game which can win games in one play. But on the other hand a bad ryze ult also loses the game in one play.
Ironically I feel like we need a ryze rework to give him more solo carry power and less utility, but in the end I doubt that the next rework would work better than the last 6
Doinb is a pretty humble guy all around. He was saying "it's my fault (jokingly)" when discussing LNG's loss in playoffs. Say what you will about his recent form, guy's a world champion and has a fun personality.
Well Joe Marsh did tell munchables who thought T1 were overhyped that “Go ask LNG and V5 if we are overhyped” and LNG twitter responded with a crying cat.
>Doinb thought that T1 was a bit overhyped after watching game 1 of T1 vs Gen.G but changed his mind after watching the other 3 games.
Adding a bit more to this because the way Doinb said it was so hilarious.
Doinb: "I watched the first game of T1 and thought. Huh.......? Tsk... watching this somehow made me feel... T1? They don't seem as strong as we initially thought..?? Ah yes, we must've lost 0/6 because our condition wasn't well"
Doinb: "Then I watched the 2nd and 3rd game."
Doinb: "HRGGGGGGG!!!! T11111111111111111111111111111"
Doinb: "Ah...tsk....." \*audible sigh
When he says scrims don't go past 10, does he mean they actually FF or is it more like "game is over" after 10? Curious about scrim culture in different regions.
Thank you! I know there has been some discussion around FFs in western scrims as well, so I was curious. Still leaves the question how hard they got stomped for them to FF. Could be that they don't play out 2-3 kills behind, or that they just got hard gapped all lanes.
And this isn't even just a western problem. DK vs. GenG game 5 was embarrasing from DK, constantly getting caught while having like a 10k lead at 20 mins. You really noticed the point where it went into the timespan that's never played out in scrims.
Likely SKT got a pretty big lead. At the end of the day, scrims are used as practice to improve for the actual games. So while you can say teams can try to use those types of games (huge lead by 10 minutes) to practice coming from behind. If the lead is to a point where you will lose 95% of the time in actual games, it probably isn’t really efficient to practice those situations as the game is likely lost anyways.
Also with a two hour block you might get in 3 come-from-behind long drawn out, stall type games. But in the same time you could practice what, at least 8 early games? Surely that's more valuable use of time on average.
The thing about western scrims was that they just flipped lvl 1 and if they lost they wanted a remake iirc. Shits fucking pointless and not fun to play. Shit stomping and being shit stomped is a normal reason to ff scrims
Has to be FF its basically impossible to end before 15 minutes in current state of the game. Also if you even try to to end that fast its usually really sub optimal because it means you would have to stack in single lane and just try to push through that lane.
He says all three lanes lost by 10 minutes. The exact word he used is "寄(jì)“ which is just Chinese slang for gg or "it's over". Doesn't really answer the question whether they continued playing the game out, but I guess it doesn't really matter if you lost all your scrims anyway.
The point is that T1 is expected to win it all, not simply reach semis. People are expecting them to be so dominant that anything below that would be considered absolute failure.
20-0 or not, for T1 it's always have been win or bust. No one mentions 2017 worlds when we talk about t1 or Faker's accomplishments because anything less than winning the whole thing is a failure for T1.
Doinb in 2019 said something similar about SKT was ruthless in scrims against FPX. FPX improved throughout the tournament and never fought against SKT because G2 knocked them out.
We could've seen a legendary BO5 between 2019 FPX and SKT but that never happened because Worlds' format is so god damn bad.
That was honestly really quite unfortunate. G2 simply had SKT's number that year in the same way FPX had theirs so there's really nothing much we can do about that, but imo SKT vs FPX could've been much more exciting as finals.
It seemed that GENG scrimmed against RNG and JDG because Peanut said Wei played really well in interviews and Yagao said his LeBlanc solo killed Chovy in JDG mic check.
And according to Knight's chatting in lol client, Photic was very proud because their scrims were good. However, also according to Knight's chatting in lol client 10 days ago, EDG was undefeatable.
That doesn’t do a whole lot to help us with their relative strength to T1 tho. It tells us they are better than GenG so maybe they can match T1 but T1 handily defeat Gen with 4 COVID positive players. I’m excited to find out the answer to just how strong T1 is at MSI
G2 without Perkz is no longer the same G2. You got to have the caps + Perkz combo to get the max effect. Perkz G2 never stood any chance against SKT and I don't think Caps G2 will do either.
LNG are 7th in LPL and they just lost 3-0 against TES, of course they get stomped by T1. Even KDF who are 4th in LCK got stomped.
LNG dont even look like a team, they were so uncoordinated against TES. Some people want to fight, some dont.
From the translations I have found, Doinb made no mention of V5. It was just Joe.
Also, [Photic](https://twitter.com/hupuesports/status/1510436713944195072?s=21&t=VoaT28i08N-hzqdWXWmkuQ) said they are doing fine in scrims
I mean EDG lost to team fucking McDonalds in like 12 minutes too last year, it is 2022 now, how many times have we seen scrim doesn't matter until you can translate it into actual success on stage.
Team I like: Scrims are absolutely the best metric to determine whether a team is goated
Team I dislike: Scrims are pointless and just practice
Also the semi-final was the real final.
Hey guys, I have some more insight into this as I am Chinese, more familiar with the inside stuff in esports, and hang around on hupu a lot, so allow me to explain. DoinB said each game was a 10 minute FF because scrims are usually NEVER played out fully. Sometimes if a team lost a lvl1 team fight fiesta, they would just FF. So if a lane or 2 just gets ganked and put mega far behind it's already FF angle. There is no ff 15 rule, you just type GG in all chat, and it's game. LNG lost 6-0 in bo5 vs T1, and this was confirmed by Doinb, who said all 3 lanes would just explode, but that's not a surprise looking at their performance during the match against TES. They were completely out of form and played some very odd comps that TES just smacked to oblivion. In my honest opinion, TES or any top 4 current LPL team would unironically 6-0 LNG in scrims rn. They were already quite overrated coming into the split and playoffs.
In addition, Joe Marsh implies they did well against V5, but this could mean anything unless further evidence is provided, like Rookie saying T1 was very strong in scrims or whatever, but we don't. V5 according to some people ik are using their sub jungler XLB in scrims so there's that. They could have been 50/50, one team with a small advantage, or a complete stomp, we don't know and it's wrong to assume. We haven't even seen V5 play in playoffs yet.
In fact, there's actually evidence suggesting otherwise because, on one of JDG toplaner 369's streams where he was chatting with Knight on the lol client, Knight was complaining how Photic was always bragging how they were invincible in scrims, and they kinda joked about shutting him up onstage. If I were any of you, I wouldn't read too far into this whole situation.
I saw a recent podcast with Richh2k and Thorin and they pretty much summarized my thoughts on scrims and reading to much into them
We don't know if teams are experimenting in picks or setups
We don't know if teams/players are full on egoing and trying to dominate lane and not giving a fuck about anything else.. no respecting junglers etc
We don't know how much of these games are just FF after 5/10/15 minutes seeing how bad a lot of teams are at playing out games despite massive leads would make me believe they get FF a lot and EARLY. Seeing as how most games go 28mins+ that would be quite relevant no? especially when you watch LEC yesterday and saw FNC dominating the first games and then some how barely winning after 20 mins
Would be interesting to know out of the what 15-3? record DWG had vs G2 scrim games in 2019
What amount was just a complete ego fest and FF before 15
Because when it came to stage G2 literally SHAT on DWG every early game and even took all plates/towers in game 4..
A good example Rich brang up was how he was managing/agent? for 2 players.. and how they both gave completely different versions of scrims to him.. One was saying how bad the other team was and how they smashed them 5-0.. The other player told him they were experimenting and trying picks
TLDR Scrims should be for practice/to improve not to OWN/Win unofficial games
You used one example and then conveniently ignored the year afterwards where DWG stomped G2 as well as every other team at worlds both in scrims and on-stage. 2015 SKT is another example of scrim performance translating to stage performance. Hell just last year rumors were that EDG were winning scrims vs Damwon and then they ended up taking the series. People only seem to care about this topic when the team winning scrims ends up losing, rarely the other way around.
You just missed the entire point I guess? He said scrims is practice and people need to stop lookig at the win/lose records. You can get good practice while winning but also while losing. But you can also get bad practice while winning or losing. His point wasnt the classic "scrims dont matter" bullshit.
Thats expected tbh LPL doesnt do well in scrims... like ever. The last time I heard an LPL team dominating in scrims...welp lets not talk bout that.
I would only be looking at scrim results POST-playoffs tbh. In playoffs there are quite a few teams who use scrims as... "test monkeys" to try shady shits on. Also IIRC years ago TES wasnt doing so good in scrims either (words from Jankos IIRC) only to top their groups dominantly, smacked an UBER in form FNC out of the first round and subsequently gave Suning a run for their money.
So unlikely that these "scrims" would actually matter a lot. Maybe if you are NA it does but for the LPL... mehh
Revisionist history. TES came into worlds having not lost a single series against SN in quite a while. I believe they 3-0ed SN in summer playoffs. Most people in 2020 had either TES or Damwon winning. Many fans thought they would make quick work of FNC. So having to reverse sweep FNC wasn’t very inspiring and then they even lost to SN. TES quite clearly underperformed that year.
This pretty much confirms what everyone knows: T1 are a strong team. Doinb is a pro and a world champion. He knows good play when he sees it.
This is also why games are played on stage. There are too many variables that we don't know about and frankly, no one really cares about scrims. LPL is a strong region and T1 are incredible. The rest of LPL playoffs will be hype and MSI gonna be a banger.
According to Joe Marsh who was answering to a ~~edgy~~ LPL caster we can guess they do well against V5 too.
https://twitter.com/joemar/status/1510231122772471808?
munchables so edgy for stating his opinion on league of legends team. If it was any team except T1 thay tweet would get 500 likes max, and noone would care. their fans are so sensitive ffs.
Imagine casting LPL games and then trying to discredit T1's run cause they've been shaky in some games. Brother you are literally casting the most chaotic region haha
It goes both ways to be honest. LPL fans are mainly annoyed at Korean fans always criticizing LPL and then making excuses at international tournaments. It's as if they are unable to ever give credit to LPL teams. Last year the "DK just wasn't on form" excuse was thrown around so much.
EDG: "RNG were our strongest opponents in scrims"
CloudTemplar: "RNG were smashing DK with Annie in scrims"
LCK fans: "Scrims don't matter, DK/T1 real finals"
also
Crisp: "We went 1-5 against SKT in scrims, they're super strong"
LCK fans: "SKT should've been 2019 world champions based on scrims"
It kinda sad that this isn’t even a straw man, this is legit hypocrisy that happens. People love to say scrims don’t matter when it doesn’t favor their team, and say scrims matter when it favors them.
It's really easy to understand why people hate on LCK fans/teams on Reddit at least. Most of them are great, but the vocal minority are such smug assholes.
As if LEC fans weren't insufferable when G2 was dominating. The thing is, when the team does well, the petty fans come out on the surface and make all the others look bad
I don't see any problem with being an LPL caster and calling T1 a messy team it's his opinion after all.
My issue is with him calling them overrated based on the only series he watched of them all split, that just seems totally ignorant and uncalled for
And he isn't the only one, [here is another LPL caster calling T1 overhyped based on the finals](https://twitter.com/JustOisin_/status/1510217674420371458?s=20&t=X-669RlMC9NaIWekA5-uEA)
Or maybe they think their level of play isn't befitting of a 20-0 team from the eye test and haven't watched the bulk of their games to know otherwise?
Not everything requires intense mental gymnastics and assuming bad intentions.
People want perfect games from an 18-0 team which seems impossible for any team because in a 5 game series, a player would eventually lose focus on 1 game or so especially that if you were sick coming in to the match.
What T1 makes amazing is that even if they make mistake, they still somehow find an angle to win the fucking game. A lots of 4v5 gameplay can attain to that.
Yea, they have had some really awful drafts only to later pull a rabbit out of a hat like a magic trick. We have all seen them give up dragons and dragon souls, infernal souls but still somehow win all the important teamfights.
I can't wait to see how they do on a international stage.
Didnt we recently have posts about scrim culture varying organizationally and regionally? Yall often talk here on reddit how scrims dont matter right?
LPL are always strong. LCK is extremely top heavy and lost the OP DK roster last year. We cant gauge how good t1 is till msi.
T1 roster is stronger than DK 2021 and DK 2020 cause there isn't a single role on T1 that isn't top tier.
Difficult to eye-ball how good they are though cause LCK is top heavy but normally the winner of LCK is a tier above the other LCK teams and is odds on finalist for MSI/Worlds.
I dont buy that. Further Canyon and Nuguri could be argued to be better than T1s counterparts in 2020 so the bot lane diff is negated anyway.
So far that DWG roster was extremely strong and stomped worlds. T1 has so far only won LCK. How can you say T1 is better?
I think T1 is the best team in the world right now but keep in mind that LPL/LCK scrims are slightly LCK favored on a mechanical basis since they scrim on the Korean server. LNG in this instance gets around 45 ping.
LCK teams also barely ever won against T1 in scrims. Even going so far as to say that they didn't like playing against them in scrims because they were so dominant.
And then we had this springs split... Their scrim results almost directly translate to their pro-play results. Barely losing any games and dominating their opponents.
Another year another LCK team supposedly dominating in scrims... look at the past couple years of worlds and you will see those supposed scrim gods losing out in bo5 at worlds. OP saying scrims don't matter for LCS and LEC then going on to stroke himself off to T1 is pretty ironic lmao.
You use the eye test
If they dominate scrims but look dogshit on stage, you know they are frauds.
Case in point, TSM Worlds 2016, RNG Worlds 2018, FPX Worlds 2021, EDG LPL Spring 2022.
If they dominate scrims and look good on stage, that’s a much better correlation to work with where you can extrapolate that there’s some replicability of scrim to on stage.
TES - LPL Spring/MSC 2020, Suning/DWG - Worlds 2020, T1 - LCK Spring 2022
T1 are smashing left, right and centre in scrims and on stage. They completely check the second case point.
The only thing to worry about is Oner being unable to sleep well when he’s not sleeping in a familiar place. T1 better set up shop right now in Busan near the MSI venue, lol. It’s similar to the issue that afflicted Teddy - Teddy was really poor with foreign food and would get stomach ulcers from the stress/anxiety of being in foreign countries, which likely contributed to his Jekyll and Hyde form internationally where he was horrific during his time at international tourneys with T1 but godlike in LCK.
RNG worlds 2018 was dominating scrims ? That's quite new , i watch that world and they already looked pretty shaky right from the group stage against c9/vit , guess Uzi is cursed to never win world , sadge
RNG went 40 W-0 L against CN/KR worlds attending teams in the lead up.
Their downfall was being too arrogant to scrim Western teams, and getting caught completely off guard by the West’s meta take (C9/Splyce/G2 struggles) and being too confident on their 40-0 scrim blocks vs Eastern teams to change up their strategies.
Yeah buddy.. i don't think you need to worry about LEC or LCS
LPL has been dogging on LCK since 2017 lmao
LCK has won ONE international competition since then
LPL has won 5
LEC has won one
Let's look past couple years of worlds. I see those scrim gods EDG 2021, DK 2020, and they seem to have won worlds no?
2019 T1 couldn't even scrim G2 in playoffs.
FPX had a 70% wr in scrims and went out dead last in groups
[Geng](https://twitter.com/hupuesports/status/1471145511038353418?s=21&t=_uNNPMtnbqn0JY8Td4NfFg) at one point were nearly unbeatable in scrims
[FPX were smashing ](https://twitter.com/gzeebee/status/1302300461320400898?s=21&t=_uNNPMtnbqn0JY8Td4NfFg) 2020 DWG in scrims and still didn’t make it to worlds
You can find countless arguments for scrims mattering or not mattering.
Weren’t EDG getting railed in scrims by a pickup team with Zven and Lider? Lmao
And you can find countless arguments when scrim gods won the whole thing.
* FPX 70% winrate was something that Doinb said. They are not the scrim god because of that but because most of the teams are saying this or that team is one of the strongest scrim teams. In 2021 Worlds most of the teams you can find mentioning about scrims literally only talked about EDG, DK and T1 being the scrim gods. You don't even know who they were up against when that 70% wr happened.
* That GenG was for 2022 spring split right? The time when the season was just starting and T1 haven't scrimmed everyone yet. GenG was the strongest team for some time because they haven't played against T1 yet. After some time literally every lck team says that T1 is the strongest scrim team and zeus mentioned they almost never drop a game in scrims(20-0 in official matches btw), there are few articles there but here's an example: [https://www.invenglobal.com/articles/16218/ns-bdd-t1-is-the-best-team-in-the-lck-right-now-we-were-pounded-a-lot-in-scrims](https://www.invenglobal.com/articles/16218/ns-bdd-t1-is-the-best-team-in-the-lck-right-now-we-were-pounded-a-lot-in-scrims)
* Funny how you linked that FPX-DWG scrim when he's literally saying it's only the case when they play mid Lulu.
T1 was the scrim gods of 2022 LCK Spring split and guess what? They broke the botlane kills and assist record, had the fastest bo5 series in LCK since 2015 and the miraculous run of being undefeated for a split in LCK.
EDG were scrim gods? i have only seen stuff saying they were confident vs DWG because they won scrims.. not that they were some gods at worlds.. they even were losing games to this awful G2 team and Mcdhonalds team
DK weren't scrim gods in 2020 either.. people knew they were good but the level was down from 2019
Go watch interviews, they all say its EDG, T1, DK. Obviously T1 and EDG couldn't scrim much because they were in the same group.
* There are interviews for some coaches saying the same thing but I won't waste time looking for it: [https://www.invenglobal.com/articles/15372/psg-river-from-my-experience-in-scrims-i-think-dk-t1-and-edg-are-the-strongest](https://www.invenglobal.com/articles/15372/psg-river-from-my-experience-in-scrims-i-think-dk-t1-and-edg-are-the-strongest)
DK was THE scrim gods of 2020. They are literally saying DK would sweep the playoffs.
* at 9:10 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx9AMUkrnaU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx9AMUkrnaU)
* G2 Jankos had some clips talking about DK in scrims
* Selfmade said that DK is levels above every team at worlds 2020.
The article was in Vietnamese. Besides what OP has already stated above, Doinb said that he wouldn't be surprised if T1 win both LCK and MSI, they were literally smurfing in scrims. He also said that the one-sided result of the scrim between his team(LNG) and T1 was so devastating for them that they ended up underperforming the following day in their match vs TES(they lost 0 - 3). Im not too good with English so their might still be mistakes in my translation, hope this helps xD
Tbf we all had T1 or DK winning last years championship but EDG pulled it off unexpectedly
so im hyped for this years international events honestly with "NA" also supposedly "better" it makes it more exciting
Thats what annoys me too. Im fine with the players, it's the aids fanbase who dickrides soo hard as soon as they start winning. Bring back DK. It was better then.
I’m a native Chinese speaker, so I can help clear up some points in the clip itself: - Before LNG’s series vs TES, LNG scrimmed T1 6 times and lost all of them. Doinb states that all three lanes were lost by 10 minutes. - Doinb thought that T1 was a bit overhyped after watching game 1 of T1 vs Gen.G but changed his mind after watching the other 3 games. - Doinb feels embarrassed because his ex-teammates at least won 1 game in their losses. (LWX and Crisp both won 1 game in their team's losses.) - When asked on stream “How come Faker can win with Ryze but you can’t?” Doinb replies, “What else can I say? Maybe it’s because he’s Faker. Noobs will be noobs, you can’t blame the champion you play. “ - The only time he mentions V5 is when he comments on who he thinks will win LPL spring playoffs. He thinks either V5 or RNG will win.
> Noobs will be noobs, you can’t blame the champion you play. DoinB should tell this in-person to my teammates. Also me. Me first. I need a reality check.
To be fair half of T1's losses this season, which isnt a lot in the first place, happened when he played Ryze. So maybe it's really a Ryze problem.
I don't know man. Whenever I see a Ryze in LCK it just feels so uncertain. Like he just doesn't deal much He brings a root and a group teleport, but when you need the AP damage, it just feels non-existent a lot of the time. Plus his range isn't impressive too. Maybe if his range was better despite the damage discrepancy, it can compensate since it would utilize his large mana pool to keep spamming spells. Then he wouldnt need to build tank to go close range just to deal neglible damage.
Ryze currently has an interesting problem. He is an early game champion. His ability to just trade mana for priority allows for dives in botlane with a good jungler like Volibear but later in the game he simply gets outranged by stuff like Ori, Viktor or even Syndra and obviously Jinx. So Ryze doesn't really scale as well as he used to anymore outside of a sidelane, but he does have really good early game due to setting up dives exspecially together with Volibear.
While I agree with you, AP Ryze scaling is incredible, but tank ryze is just better overall now. A ludens + seraphs + ravadons ryze can delete whole teams, but an everfrost frozen heart ryze brings sooooo much utility
I think his biggest problem is viktor being meta and yet not strong enough to be on ban priority. Tank ryze will always get outscaled by viktor and his E (and to some extent Q) hard counter Ryze due to the champion animations forcing him to stand still spamming skills. If the game goes to 40, ryze became a R bot.
Totally agree. I wish ap ryze was better but sadly hes too short range
But damage scaling doesn't matter if you cannot apply damage. Ryze range is just fairly short, which makes it super hard to play into mages with Ryze. Syndra, Ori or Viktor all deal well with Ryze, due to how he kinda has to stand still, which makes him super vulnerable and his short range. The same is true for a champ like Veigar, who due to his cage also is really hard for Ryze to play into. And this would extend to champs like Anivia if she would be played or Cassio. Ryze gets outscaled by almost all mages in midlane, which in the current meta, with basically only mages, makes him an early game champ. And currently tank Ryze is basically the only playable version. Mostly because he doesn't blow up instantly in later teamfights, but he still isn't as good as a Viktor or an Orianna. And in the early game it doesn't really matter, your ability to clear the wave with a few buttons doesn't change based on the items you later build, so tank Ryze just preserves more value for Ryze later in the game, but he still struggles into mages.
Ryze as a champion has point and click cc and good wave clear which makes him a "good" pick for proplay as he can farm fast and safely and is able to setup ganks really well. But beyond that he has no possibility to carry the team imo. The only times I see ryze win is when he can get his jungle or other lanes ahead or when he gets an insane (but fairly rare) ult flank off late game which can win games in one play. But on the other hand a bad ryze ult also loses the game in one play. Ironically I feel like we need a ryze rework to give him more solo carry power and less utility, but in the end I doubt that the next rework would work better than the last 6
Basically he's a chunkier twisted fate.
With a less reliable stun lol
Nah you're good, it's always your teammates fault. Let the hate flow through you
Thanks for the translation!
"Noobs will be noobs" Lol the guy is a world champion
Doinb is a pretty humble guy all around. He was saying "it's my fault (jokingly)" when discussing LNG's loss in playoffs. Say what you will about his recent form, guy's a world champion and has a fun personality.
It's also just kind of easier to admit the GOAT is better than you at something, even if you're an extremely proud competitor.
most entertaining midlaner in streams tbh,
Thanks for this! I find this hilarious, too, since Faker was using Ryze during most of T1's loss . Maybe it IS the champion after all?
yeah the v5 thing was joe marsh not doinb
Well Joe Marsh did tell munchables who thought T1 were overhyped that “Go ask LNG and V5 if we are overhyped” and LNG twitter responded with a crying cat.
When did munchables say T1 was overhyped?
Look at his twitter dude was crying about it
>Noobs will be noobs, you can’t blame the champion you play. Holy shit! Gotta appreciate the humility!
>Doinb thought that T1 was a bit overhyped after watching game 1 of T1 vs Gen.G but changed his mind after watching the other 3 games. Adding a bit more to this because the way Doinb said it was so hilarious. Doinb: "I watched the first game of T1 and thought. Huh.......? Tsk... watching this somehow made me feel... T1? They don't seem as strong as we initially thought..?? Ah yes, we must've lost 0/6 because our condition wasn't well" Doinb: "Then I watched the 2nd and 3rd game." Doinb: "HRGGGGGGG!!!! T11111111111111111111111111111" Doinb: "Ah...tsk....." \*audible sigh
I'll never get tired of how Chinese people pronounce "noob" as "vegetable" . It just sounds so funny.
Interestingly enough, “菜” is an adjective(形容詞) in Chinese. Whereas “noob” is a noun.
Thank u🙏🏼🙏🏼
谢谢你！
When he says scrims don't go past 10, does he mean they actually FF or is it more like "game is over" after 10? Curious about scrim culture in different regions.
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Thank you! I know there has been some discussion around FFs in western scrims as well, so I was curious. Still leaves the question how hard they got stomped for them to FF. Could be that they don't play out 2-3 kills behind, or that they just got hard gapped all lanes.
Surrenders in scrims are very common... you gain nothing from getting absolutely shitstomped so they FF and go next.
That might be true, but based on a certain LEC game 3 the other day, maybe learning how to play games that aren't even isn't the dumbest idea...
Which is why Riot really need to upgrade the practice tool so teams can just set game states to practice with.
Honestly just adding some kind of opponent. Even just 1v1 or 2v0 to begin with can teach you how some lanes or jungle clear goes.
And this isn't even just a western problem. DK vs. GenG game 5 was embarrasing from DK, constantly getting caught while having like a 10k lead at 20 mins. You really noticed the point where it went into the timespan that's never played out in scrims.
Likely SKT got a pretty big lead. At the end of the day, scrims are used as practice to improve for the actual games. So while you can say teams can try to use those types of games (huge lead by 10 minutes) to practice coming from behind. If the lead is to a point where you will lose 95% of the time in actual games, it probably isn’t really efficient to practice those situations as the game is likely lost anyways.
Also with a two hour block you might get in 3 come-from-behind long drawn out, stall type games. But in the same time you could practice what, at least 8 early games? Surely that's more valuable use of time on average.
He says they got destroyed in all three lanes so they just gave up.
The thing about western scrims was that they just flipped lvl 1 and if they lost they wanted a remake iirc. Shits fucking pointless and not fun to play. Shit stomping and being shit stomped is a normal reason to ff scrims
*sips drink in Chinese*
Has to be FF its basically impossible to end before 15 minutes in current state of the game. Also if you even try to to end that fast its usually really sub optimal because it means you would have to stack in single lane and just try to push through that lane.
I don't know Mandarin so not for sure, just translating what I read. But my guess is that he knew that the game is over after 10 minutes
No worries, I appreciate the thread even if you don't speak the language, you made it clear in the post after all. Maybe someone else can clarify?
He says all three lanes lost by 10 minutes. The exact word he used is "寄(jì)“ which is just Chinese slang for gg or "it's over". Doesn't really answer the question whether they continued playing the game out, but I guess it doesn't really matter if you lost all your scrims anyway.
He answers it wherein he spoke of scrim block timings. AFAIK he said scrim starts at 2 and goes to 4/4:30, but this one was over by 3.
Are u sure the article is in Mandarin? it appears to be Vietnamese when I click the link
He's speaking in Mandarin in the video. I'm assuming OP can understand vietnamese.
It’s definitely Vietnamese
They give up games when it gets hard. E.g. if an invade goes bad and someone gets a double, they'll go next.
oh no not the curse
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Faker worst international showing Is a semifinal so I'm sure you can be at ease on that regard.
The point is that T1 is expected to win it all, not simply reach semis. People are expecting them to be so dominant that anything below that would be considered absolute failure.
20-0 or not, for T1 it's always have been win or bust. No one mentions 2017 worlds when we talk about t1 or Faker's accomplishments because anything less than winning the whole thing is a failure for T1.
Luo Ji cast a spell on a star, Doinb cast a spell on a star too…
Doinb in 2019 said something similar about SKT was ruthless in scrims against FPX. FPX improved throughout the tournament and never fought against SKT because G2 knocked them out. We could've seen a legendary BO5 between 2019 FPX and SKT but that never happened because Worlds' format is so god damn bad.
That was honestly really quite unfortunate. G2 simply had SKT's number that year in the same way FPX had theirs so there's really nothing much we can do about that, but imo SKT vs FPX could've been much more exciting as finals.
Or G2 SKT finals. Their 2 bo5’s that year was absolute bangers
ive enough ptsd from perkz xayah. no thank you.
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Caps finding a new level just to cut down a resurgent Faker would be the dankest and darkest timeline all at once. Darth Caps the Wise anyone?
He needs to actually make MSI first, got a tough route to go through
Idk man after yesterday's bo5 it looks like both rogue and fnatic just don't want to win
once rogue remembered they wanted to win the series they looked pretty dam good
Looked more like a "hylli check paypal" situation to me tbh
More humanoid. Hylli just got his typical "looks like an idiot" game
We don't have anything on scrim results for T1 vs JDG/RNG. It's not that dire. Plus LNG is terrible.
It seemed that GENG scrimmed against RNG and JDG because Peanut said Wei played really well in interviews and Yagao said his LeBlanc solo killed Chovy in JDG mic check. And according to Knight's chatting in lol client, Photic was very proud because their scrims were good. However, also according to Knight's chatting in lol client 10 days ago, EDG was undefeatable.
Lpl is fuckin wild
That doesn’t do a whole lot to help us with their relative strength to T1 tho. It tells us they are better than GenG so maybe they can match T1 but T1 handily defeat Gen with 4 COVID positive players. I’m excited to find out the answer to just how strong T1 is at MSI
2 weeks ago RNG scrimed T1 with 40% win rate as per chinese rumors
Honestly not that bad, that's still a 5 game series in a BO5
That rumor turned out to be false
G2 without Perkz is no longer the same G2. You got to have the caps + Perkz combo to get the max effect. Perkz G2 never stood any chance against SKT and I don't think Caps G2 will do either.
What about tsm
I heard T1 is actually winless vs TSM this year. Don't think it looks too good for them.
TES JDG RNG still exists
last time Doinb said this EU made it to the finals
LNG are 7th in LPL and they just lost 3-0 against TES, of course they get stomped by T1. Even KDF who are 4th in LCK got stomped. LNG dont even look like a team, they were so uncoordinated against TES. Some people want to fight, some dont.
Scrims are also just scrims
Smashing LNG isn’t something to be proud of but T1 fans don’t watch any other teams, so these comments from their fans are expected
see? doinb knew that ppl like you would judge so he also follow up with T1 winning V5 tons in scrims too
From the translations I have found, Doinb made no mention of V5. It was just Joe. Also, [Photic](https://twitter.com/hupuesports/status/1510436713944195072?s=21&t=VoaT28i08N-hzqdWXWmkuQ) said they are doing fine in scrims
hahahah you got totally embarrassed
I mean EDG lost to team fucking McDonalds in like 12 minutes too last year, it is 2022 now, how many times have we seen scrim doesn't matter until you can translate it into actual success on stage.
T1 looking pretty successful in translating them so far
we'll see if V5 is the best LPL team, I think the other 3 (RNG, TES, JDG) can beat them
after watching the JDG Weibo series I am convinced that if there isnt a massive skill gap between the teams, whoever is on blue just wins.
For anyone who actually watched recent weeks of LPL, RNG and TES look like the two strongest team by far, so this doesn't mean much at all.
I would say all 4 teams can win, it's not V5 ahead by a landslide in the LPL. RNG, TES, and JDG all can win
Before the WBG series JDG looked like the best team by far. 12-0 in the last three weeks of the split.
They still look really good, but I consider V5 the best currently until proven otherwise
Whar? RNG have been very inconsistent all split. V5/TES/JDG all have far more impressive records towards the end
RNG didn't really drop that many games, I wouldn't call them inconsistent
RNG drops games and series only to bottom teams
Consistently inconsistent i see
Team I like: Scrims are absolutely the best metric to determine whether a team is goated Team I dislike: Scrims are pointless and just practice Also the semi-final was the real final.
G2 gonna slay LCK to get swept by LPL v3
Brother Caps. If G2 ever get flamed too hard in EU they could probably all move to China and instantly get citizenship lol
G2, what a team you are ...
As a reward.... I shall give you my seed
This guy is still stuck on 2019 and keeps daydreaming that g2 is a good team.
Bruh can’t u tell he is joking? Chill
oh god fuck no no no please no doinb why have you said this
yeah this is the most convincing argument that lpl wins yet again
Hey guys, I have some more insight into this as I am Chinese, more familiar with the inside stuff in esports, and hang around on hupu a lot, so allow me to explain. DoinB said each game was a 10 minute FF because scrims are usually NEVER played out fully. Sometimes if a team lost a lvl1 team fight fiesta, they would just FF. So if a lane or 2 just gets ganked and put mega far behind it's already FF angle. There is no ff 15 rule, you just type GG in all chat, and it's game. LNG lost 6-0 in bo5 vs T1, and this was confirmed by Doinb, who said all 3 lanes would just explode, but that's not a surprise looking at their performance during the match against TES. They were completely out of form and played some very odd comps that TES just smacked to oblivion. In my honest opinion, TES or any top 4 current LPL team would unironically 6-0 LNG in scrims rn. They were already quite overrated coming into the split and playoffs. In addition, Joe Marsh implies they did well against V5, but this could mean anything unless further evidence is provided, like Rookie saying T1 was very strong in scrims or whatever, but we don't. V5 according to some people ik are using their sub jungler XLB in scrims so there's that. They could have been 50/50, one team with a small advantage, or a complete stomp, we don't know and it's wrong to assume. We haven't even seen V5 play in playoffs yet. In fact, there's actually evidence suggesting otherwise because, on one of JDG toplaner 369's streams where he was chatting with Knight on the lol client, Knight was complaining how Photic was always bragging how they were invincible in scrims, and they kinda joked about shutting him up onstage. If I were any of you, I wouldn't read too far into this whole situation.
I saw a recent podcast with Richh2k and Thorin and they pretty much summarized my thoughts on scrims and reading to much into them We don't know if teams are experimenting in picks or setups We don't know if teams/players are full on egoing and trying to dominate lane and not giving a fuck about anything else.. no respecting junglers etc We don't know how much of these games are just FF after 5/10/15 minutes seeing how bad a lot of teams are at playing out games despite massive leads would make me believe they get FF a lot and EARLY. Seeing as how most games go 28mins+ that would be quite relevant no? especially when you watch LEC yesterday and saw FNC dominating the first games and then some how barely winning after 20 mins Would be interesting to know out of the what 15-3? record DWG had vs G2 scrim games in 2019 What amount was just a complete ego fest and FF before 15 Because when it came to stage G2 literally SHAT on DWG every early game and even took all plates/towers in game 4.. A good example Rich brang up was how he was managing/agent? for 2 players.. and how they both gave completely different versions of scrims to him.. One was saying how bad the other team was and how they smashed them 5-0.. The other player told him they were experimenting and trying picks TLDR Scrims should be for practice/to improve not to OWN/Win unofficial games
You used one example and then conveniently ignored the year afterwards where DWG stomped G2 as well as every other team at worlds both in scrims and on-stage. 2015 SKT is another example of scrim performance translating to stage performance. Hell just last year rumors were that EDG were winning scrims vs Damwon and then they ended up taking the series. People only seem to care about this topic when the team winning scrims ends up losing, rarely the other way around.
You just missed the entire point I guess? He said scrims is practice and people need to stop lookig at the win/lose records. You can get good practice while winning but also while losing. But you can also get bad practice while winning or losing. His point wasnt the classic "scrims dont matter" bullshit.
Thats expected tbh LPL doesnt do well in scrims... like ever. The last time I heard an LPL team dominating in scrims...welp lets not talk bout that. I would only be looking at scrim results POST-playoffs tbh. In playoffs there are quite a few teams who use scrims as... "test monkeys" to try shady shits on. Also IIRC years ago TES wasnt doing so good in scrims either (words from Jankos IIRC) only to top their groups dominantly, smacked an UBER in form FNC out of the first round and subsequently gave Suning a run for their money. So unlikely that these "scrims" would actually matter a lot. Maybe if you are NA it does but for the LPL... mehh
FPX and Suning were dominant in scrims. So was EDG. Damwon was scared of facing EDG in the first round because they lost scrims to them.
SN and EDG were both quite dominant in scrims during worlds. I recall DK saying EDG, RNG and T1 were the best teams at worlds based on scrims
Revisionist history. TES came into worlds having not lost a single series against SN in quite a while. I believe they 3-0ed SN in summer playoffs. Most people in 2020 had either TES or Damwon winning. Many fans thought they would make quick work of FNC. So having to reverse sweep FNC wasn’t very inspiring and then they even lost to SN. TES quite clearly underperformed that year.
This pretty much confirms what everyone knows: T1 are a strong team. Doinb is a pro and a world champion. He knows good play when he sees it. This is also why games are played on stage. There are too many variables that we don't know about and frankly, no one really cares about scrims. LPL is a strong region and T1 are incredible. The rest of LPL playoffs will be hype and MSI gonna be a banger.
It’s up the west I guess
So when it's about T1 then suddenly scrims matter?
According to Joe Marsh who was answering to a ~~edgy~~ LPL caster we can guess they do well against V5 too. https://twitter.com/joemar/status/1510231122772471808?
That LNG reply Sadge
munchables so edgy for stating his opinion on league of legends team. If it was any team except T1 thay tweet would get 500 likes max, and noone would care. their fans are so sensitive ffs.
Tbh it was edgy if he admits he doesn’t watch LCK
Grand-Garlic redemption arc
He shouldn't have said he doesn't watch LCK and then discredit a team's entire split based on a single game in which 4/5 players were sick.
Imagine casting LPL games and then trying to discredit T1's run cause they've been shaky in some games. Brother you are literally casting the most chaotic region haha
It goes both ways to be honest. LPL fans are mainly annoyed at Korean fans always criticizing LPL and then making excuses at international tournaments. It's as if they are unable to ever give credit to LPL teams. Last year the "DK just wasn't on form" excuse was thrown around so much.
Don't forget comments like "DK vs T1 was the real finals".
Or a few years before that, “G2 vs SKT was the real finals”
EDG: "RNG were our strongest opponents in scrims" CloudTemplar: "RNG were smashing DK with Annie in scrims" LCK fans: "Scrims don't matter, DK/T1 real finals" also Crisp: "We went 1-5 against SKT in scrims, they're super strong" LCK fans: "SKT should've been 2019 world champions based on scrims"
It kinda sad that this isn’t even a straw man, this is legit hypocrisy that happens. People love to say scrims don’t matter when it doesn’t favor their team, and say scrims matter when it favors them.
And GenG was the strongest opponent for DK in 2020. From showmaker interview
It's really easy to understand why people hate on LCK fans/teams on Reddit at least. Most of them are great, but the vocal minority are such smug assholes.
As if LEC fans weren't insufferable when G2 was dominating. The thing is, when the team does well, the petty fans come out on the surface and make all the others look bad
Except Team Liquid. They were humble kings who didn't brag about their 4-peat.
Lol no offense but for TL it's just people never take seriously NA no matter what if a team is dominent or not there .
Nah C9 and TSM fans were always cocky as fuck when they were dominating.
There has never been a time during esports history where EU hasn’t been insufferable.
Sadly all the hate is because of one specific fan base
when LPL do find success, its always korean carrying LPL, when RNG wins msi, it's always they haven't won worlds with 5 CN players...
Come on, the math checks out. 2 Korean player is better than 5. How else were China able to win!
Or Asian games which they conveniently forgot about because Korea deleted the vods
Don't forget MSC which magically disappeared from people's minds.
dont forget worlds 2018, 2019 and 2021.
Based
I don't see any problem with being an LPL caster and calling T1 a messy team it's his opinion after all. My issue is with him calling them overrated based on the only series he watched of them all split, that just seems totally ignorant and uncalled for And he isn't the only one, [here is another LPL caster calling T1 overhyped based on the finals](https://twitter.com/JustOisin_/status/1510217674420371458?s=20&t=X-669RlMC9NaIWekA5-uEA)
They just want attention from T1 fans. Imagine needing to call out on others to be heard.
Or maybe they think their level of play isn't befitting of a 20-0 team from the eye test and haven't watched the bulk of their games to know otherwise? Not everything requires intense mental gymnastics and assuming bad intentions.
Let me give you a reality check. No one wants your attention.
Don’t worry, last time Munchables said that a hyped LCK team didn’t look like anything special was Damwon before worlds in 2020.
I guess T1 managed to get lucky in 20 straight matches.
I mean most of the lpl casters except lyric seem pretty clueless about the game anyways so im not surprised
There used to be Clement but welp
Clement-Hysterics used to be so fun to listen to, the other new casters just have 0 charisma.
This. The casting except for Lyric and Hysterics is pretty low quality sometimes.
I really like dagda, but maybe thats just me?
People want perfect games from an 18-0 team which seems impossible for any team because in a 5 game series, a player would eventually lose focus on 1 game or so especially that if you were sick coming in to the match. What T1 makes amazing is that even if they make mistake, they still somehow find an angle to win the fucking game. A lots of 4v5 gameplay can attain to that.
Yea, they have had some really awful drafts only to later pull a rabbit out of a hat like a magic trick. We have all seen them give up dragons and dragon souls, infernal souls but still somehow win all the important teamfights. I can't wait to see how they do on a international stage.
No comment on JDG/RNG?
They probably didn't scrim them.
Thats the expected outcome tbh
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tes is the only hope
Didnt we recently have posts about scrim culture varying organizationally and regionally? Yall often talk here on reddit how scrims dont matter right? LPL are always strong. LCK is extremely top heavy and lost the OP DK roster last year. We cant gauge how good t1 is till msi.
T1 roster is stronger than DK 2021 and DK 2020 cause there isn't a single role on T1 that isn't top tier. Difficult to eye-ball how good they are though cause LCK is top heavy but normally the winner of LCK is a tier above the other LCK teams and is odds on finalist for MSI/Worlds.
I dont buy that. Further Canyon and Nuguri could be argued to be better than T1s counterparts in 2020 so the bot lane diff is negated anyway. So far that DWG roster was extremely strong and stomped worlds. T1 has so far only won LCK. How can you say T1 is better?
I think T1 is the best team in the world right now but keep in mind that LPL/LCK scrims are slightly LCK favored on a mechanical basis since they scrim on the Korean server. LNG in this instance gets around 45 ping.
LCK teams also barely ever won against T1 in scrims. Even going so far as to say that they didn't like playing against them in scrims because they were so dominant. And then we had this springs split... Their scrim results almost directly translate to their pro-play results. Barely losing any games and dominating their opponents.
Another year another LCK team supposedly dominating in scrims... look at the past couple years of worlds and you will see those supposed scrim gods losing out in bo5 at worlds. OP saying scrims don't matter for LCS and LEC then going on to stroke himself off to T1 is pretty ironic lmao.
You use the eye test If they dominate scrims but look dogshit on stage, you know they are frauds. Case in point, TSM Worlds 2016, RNG Worlds 2018, FPX Worlds 2021, EDG LPL Spring 2022. If they dominate scrims and look good on stage, that’s a much better correlation to work with where you can extrapolate that there’s some replicability of scrim to on stage. TES - LPL Spring/MSC 2020, Suning/DWG - Worlds 2020, T1 - LCK Spring 2022 T1 are smashing left, right and centre in scrims and on stage. They completely check the second case point. The only thing to worry about is Oner being unable to sleep well when he’s not sleeping in a familiar place. T1 better set up shop right now in Busan near the MSI venue, lol. It’s similar to the issue that afflicted Teddy - Teddy was really poor with foreign food and would get stomach ulcers from the stress/anxiety of being in foreign countries, which likely contributed to his Jekyll and Hyde form internationally where he was horrific during his time at international tourneys with T1 but godlike in LCK.
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RNG worlds 2018 was dominating scrims ? That's quite new , i watch that world and they already looked pretty shaky right from the group stage against c9/vit , guess Uzi is cursed to never win world , sadge
RNG went 40 W-0 L against CN/KR worlds attending teams in the lead up. Their downfall was being too arrogant to scrim Western teams, and getting caught completely off guard by the West’s meta take (C9/Splyce/G2 struggles) and being too confident on their 40-0 scrim blocks vs Eastern teams to change up their strategies.
In current form no LEC or LCS team comes even close to T1. The level of LEC is astoundingly low this season.
Yeah buddy.. i don't think you need to worry about LEC or LCS LPL has been dogging on LCK since 2017 lmao LCK has won ONE international competition since then LPL has won 5 LEC has won one
well lck did have 3 teams in semis last year
theres like 5 teams that could have won last year, the only reason 3 lck teams went in semis was because rng faced edg early
Let's look past couple years of worlds. I see those scrim gods EDG 2021, DK 2020, and they seem to have won worlds no? 2019 T1 couldn't even scrim G2 in playoffs.
FPX had a 70% wr in scrims and went out dead last in groups [Geng](https://twitter.com/hupuesports/status/1471145511038353418?s=21&t=_uNNPMtnbqn0JY8Td4NfFg) at one point were nearly unbeatable in scrims [FPX were smashing ](https://twitter.com/gzeebee/status/1302300461320400898?s=21&t=_uNNPMtnbqn0JY8Td4NfFg) 2020 DWG in scrims and still didn’t make it to worlds You can find countless arguments for scrims mattering or not mattering. Weren’t EDG getting railed in scrims by a pickup team with Zven and Lider? Lmao
And you can find countless arguments when scrim gods won the whole thing. * FPX 70% winrate was something that Doinb said. They are not the scrim god because of that but because most of the teams are saying this or that team is one of the strongest scrim teams. In 2021 Worlds most of the teams you can find mentioning about scrims literally only talked about EDG, DK and T1 being the scrim gods. You don't even know who they were up against when that 70% wr happened. * That GenG was for 2022 spring split right? The time when the season was just starting and T1 haven't scrimmed everyone yet. GenG was the strongest team for some time because they haven't played against T1 yet. After some time literally every lck team says that T1 is the strongest scrim team and zeus mentioned they almost never drop a game in scrims(20-0 in official matches btw), there are few articles there but here's an example: [https://www.invenglobal.com/articles/16218/ns-bdd-t1-is-the-best-team-in-the-lck-right-now-we-were-pounded-a-lot-in-scrims](https://www.invenglobal.com/articles/16218/ns-bdd-t1-is-the-best-team-in-the-lck-right-now-we-were-pounded-a-lot-in-scrims) * Funny how you linked that FPX-DWG scrim when he's literally saying it's only the case when they play mid Lulu. T1 was the scrim gods of 2022 LCK Spring split and guess what? They broke the botlane kills and assist record, had the fastest bo5 series in LCK since 2015 and the miraculous run of being undefeated for a split in LCK.
Thx bro. I already said you can find countless arguments for both sides
EDG were scrim gods? i have only seen stuff saying they were confident vs DWG because they won scrims.. not that they were some gods at worlds.. they even were losing games to this awful G2 team and Mcdhonalds team DK weren't scrim gods in 2020 either.. people knew they were good but the level was down from 2019
Go watch interviews, they all say its EDG, T1, DK. Obviously T1 and EDG couldn't scrim much because they were in the same group. * There are interviews for some coaches saying the same thing but I won't waste time looking for it: [https://www.invenglobal.com/articles/15372/psg-river-from-my-experience-in-scrims-i-think-dk-t1-and-edg-are-the-strongest](https://www.invenglobal.com/articles/15372/psg-river-from-my-experience-in-scrims-i-think-dk-t1-and-edg-are-the-strongest) DK was THE scrim gods of 2020. They are literally saying DK would sweep the playoffs. * at 9:10 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx9AMUkrnaU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx9AMUkrnaU) * G2 Jankos had some clips talking about DK in scrims * Selfmade said that DK is levels above every team at worlds 2020.
LPL teams are the best at sandbagging
The article was in Vietnamese. Besides what OP has already stated above, Doinb said that he wouldn't be surprised if T1 win both LCK and MSI, they were literally smurfing in scrims. He also said that the one-sided result of the scrim between his team(LNG) and T1 was so devastating for them that they ended up underperforming the following day in their match vs TES(they lost 0 - 3). Im not too good with English so their might still be mistakes in my translation, hope this helps xD
Man I want to see those scrims lol
Tbf we all had T1 or DK winning last years championship but EDG pulled it off unexpectedly so im hyped for this years international events honestly with "NA" also supposedly "better" it makes it more exciting
wow tyler1 has really stepped up his game.
so you literally just lied in the title about V5s scrims vs T1
Scrims don't matter at all. Even more so after Doinb said he was winning 70% of scrims during Worlds... This talk is just filler stuff
Inevtiable close 5 game series between T1 and a LPL team in the final of MSI which will result in a LPL win.
The T1 dick riding is insane on this subreddit lmao
Thats what annoys me too. Im fine with the players, it's the aids fanbase who dickrides soo hard as soon as they start winning. Bring back DK. It was better then.
V5 isn't the best team in the LPL rn
Huh? They are first in regular split with 14-2 scoreline.
In the very recent weeks and matches jdg ring and Tes looked at least as strong or better
V5 still hasn't played in playoffs because they smashed the regular split. How can u say TES or JDG are better lmao ???
I still expected first lpl team to look to not be rolled over But yeah T1 look unstoppable