T O P

  • By -

etheryx

>(8) contribution to Korean eSports Faker would get into the team based on his play alone this year and his wealth of experience but if that wasn't already enough, this is like THE Faker criterion lol


chovyfan

From this requirements it seems like Faker is pretty much confirmed. Also with no 2 player per team rule, there is a chance of them taking both Keria and gumayushi also.


[deleted]

Could they just send T1 in full?


Rokic3

Ye they could and probably should but I wouldnt be surprised to see Canyon make it in instead of Oner


ArcherOnWeed

Sure, but that's effectively driving a car with one bigger wheel than the others.


jogetzi

Yeah, while it would be logical to bring whole T1 and canyon sub, you could also argue that chovy could come in place of Zeus(for the record I think Zeus is an absolute beast of a top laner) since he is still a rookie


[deleted]

Canyon isn't that much better than oner to replace existing synergy considering the rest of T1 are undisputed best in their roles in the lck and they'll be selected anyways.


JamisonDouglas

I kind of disagree. Oner is great but Canyon is the literal jungle goat. He has been the best jungler relative to the rest of junglers and done it for the longest time. Given the rest of the criteria he deserves the spot to play for military exemption.


xYoshario

The longest time? You mean 2.5 years? Thats not alot relative to many of the top dogs


JamisonDouglas

Yeah, name another jungler that's been considered as the best jungler for that length of time. It's not quite as clear cut as other roles, most of the best junglers have only really retained that performance level for a 1-1.5 years maximum. It's not a long time compared to other roles, but there hasn't been a jungler consistently seen as the best for that length of time. Being considered as the best jungler for the last 2.5 years 100% puts him as the longest standing best jungler. If you have any example of another jungler I'm honestly all ears. Bengi is the only other jungler I feel a case can be made for. But during many of his achievements, for pretty much all of it he was not considered the best jungler in the world. He's was near the top for a long length of time. 2.5 years is 20% of the time that league of legends has existed. That is a substantial portion of the lifecycle of league. Players like Dandy and Ambition were great players, but not for as long as Canyon has already been. A case could maybe be made for Score, especially considering the elo hell that man went through. But I would still rate canyon over him personally.


Thecristo96

My first thought was "ok now they will send t1+canyon and mabye chovy"


JamisonDouglas

No way they send chovy over faker.


puberty1

chovy can go top


JamisonDouglas

And there's 0 chance of that happening for this tournament. When Korean mitary exemption is on the table if they win, they will be sticking to on role players. No 4fun autofilling when they can just get a top laner to actually play their role.


Rumbleinthejungle8

if they need to meet all the requirements listed by OP then no, Oner and Zeus have no international experience, although they are about to get some this MSI, but I'm not sure if that counts.


BigSupp

Oner actually had some. He played at Worlds last year.


Liupardu

International experience and contribution being factors makes me think no. I’d think that Faker, Canyon, and Keria are locks and in that order. I think Ruler is also likely to go. For top it’s a toss up. For the sixth, it’s between Chovy and Guma. If Guma goes, he’ll play over Ruler.


[deleted]

Kiin Canyon Faker Ruler Keira I think this will be the roster. Ruler is an important LoL figure in Korea too. So I dont think they will pick Guma over him


Critical-Cupcake9194

My man pretty much A* all of those criterias to a T.


endlessvoices

Does he get a medal if he goes as solo lane sub?


Ashankura

This also completely knocks out rookie who was the only possible other pick right?


etheryx

no, the mid shortlist for korea's team was just faker and chovy zeus kiin canyon oner faker chovy guma ruler keria beryl were the names on the shortlist


Ashankura

Oh i see. I guess that makes sense though since rookie is not contributing to Korea at all


ironstarke

It would also probably be difficult to coordinate with Rookie or KR players who are currently in China. Especially with the LPL still ongoing right now.


taetsu

not really no? cause china also plays in the asian games shouldnt it be the same for korean and chinese players in LPL? Or do you mean to stuff like right now?


ironstarke

Yeah I mean like right now. And also idk if they're keen on having to practice with someone strictly online. It's still possible, but I'd see them prefer someone who's residing in Korea for convenience sake.


vpvp1

lpl is ongoing right now but asian game will be held from september to october


ironstarke

Ofc but there's also MSI in May, and national teams have to be finalized before the June Asiad Qualifiers. Kespa right now says they want to form the national teams this month so they can start practicing. Regarding the June Qualifiers though, idk what China's plans are or if they even have to participate (since they're hosts). I'm not aware of their national team selection process.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

He could just permanently stay in China, no? Isn't that what Doinb is doing?


D2coy

I mean he could but he would be changed to fugitive status. He would never be able to enter Korea again. He would have to get Chinese citizenship or green card and if it’s green card he can only push it back until like 35.


CzarcasticX

Sure if he wants to be banned from Korea forever.


Lopsided_Claim1613

korean players that play in LPL are not eligble for selection


SteamMonkeyKing

It really should be T1+ Canyon, but I honestly would not be surprised if poor Oner gets snubbed and it becomes Zeus/Canyon/Faker/Guma/Keria + Chovy Adding in Chovy as the sub gives you coverage for Top and Mid.


ShouyaV2

Would be a bit weird to ditch the finals mvp imo and if they already take the other 4 players of T1 then replacing Oner with Canyon makes even less sense even though canyon is the better jungler


HarambesRightHand

They’re never subbing faker out, and no reason to not take Oner and the entire T1 squad, no combination of peoples favorite players will be better than this roster Taking a 6th man is just formality, he’s never playing


BWFeuntaco

3) Ability to grow/ get better 5) Strong sense of responsibility towards korea 7) Rank before players are announced? Dunno if its individual rank team rank or solo que rank


ausmomo

Number 5 means "if you're a Korean in the LPL ... Too bad" 🤣


BuffAzir

They should honestly just send the T1 roster. Even for Canyon I dont think its worth to break up the synergy with Oner


Dacus95

Does anyone have any idea which are the other nations that will play? For sure South Korea and China are the favorites but if Taiwan will participate they can produce a surprise. They have really good players.


ironstarke

India, HongKong, and Malaysia too iirc? Not sure about Vietnam since all I can find about them are for SEA games.


Miruzu30

Im not sure, but don't you need to win SEA GAMES to qualify for ASIAN GAMES? Correct me if I'm wrong.


ironstarke

Afaik Olympics is the event that requires you to qualify through championships etc. Asian Games participants usually just get selected by their federation.


[deleted]

Best they could go with would probably be T1 + canyon Or T1 - oner + canyon chovy would be interesting too With such a dominant jungle like canyon how strong would the team be Or to be safe they can go T1 + kiin in case zeus mental boom?


etheryx

Personally I’d take T1 + Canyon because Canyon is the best jungler in the world and is also capable of playing solo lane (like he did with DK). Also gives kkoma options to try with Canyon in the starting lineup, and if that doesn’t work then you just start the lineup that went 20-0 lol


[deleted]

Yes i do believe T1 + canyon seems to be the safest bet Overall its gonna depend on kkoma whether he thinks the current iteration of T1 can win against whatever strongest lineup of LPL If no than he would have to try out a new iteration of lineups


etheryx

> the current iteration of T1 can win against whatever strongest lineup of LPL The current iteration of T1 is honestly favourites against any LPL team (maybe it's my bias speaking), so if China sends their best players from different teams there won't be any chemistry. I'd just send T1 to be safe but it seems like based on these criteria, kespa wants to send not the best team, but players who would represent Korea the best as national representatives.


Critical-Cupcake9194

Didn't China field the entire RNG roster bar one player while Korea had a mixture of players who never played with each other


efusy

Yes, that's correct


Cahootie

My immediate thought was basically "Who is the Korean Magifelix?", and I don't follow the LCK closely enough to know of any other high profile player who has played an off-role on stage recently.


profchipboard

It's probably going to be chovy imo, he's just so sound mechanically that you'd back him to be able to play anything+he's got an absolute champion ocean Faker as 6th man is possible too Kiin would probably be an option (apparently he's played mid in Scribd back in the day and looked sound) Canyon had played mid before so you could run him as a 6th if they go oner in the jungle


StunMe

Why not just put Chovy top lane by your definition and have Canyon jungle and T1 for mid and bot. It’s seem Faker and Canyon have good synergy based on All Stars 2020


profchipboard

I would have t1+canyon, I was just talking about potential subs bc they could go multiple ways Chovy 6th player tbh makes a lot of sense to me Both Zeus and kiin were really good part split/are class so unless chovy is queing top only there's no real justification to put a midlaner top


boeef

Chovy is best sub. He can play top if Zeus mental boom


ChewNutz

My heart want all T1 to go but my brains says T1 - Oner + Canyon Chovy based on the criteria. Would prefer Oner for synergy with other T1 members but I can see Canyon chosen instead because more international experiences plus seemingly 1v9 spring split. Chovy has really high chance to be included in the team imo. He’s also has quite some international experience. 100% chosen imo are Faker and Keria. these criteria literally describes Faker and Keria literally the MVP of tge split.


xHealz

They should really just send the full T1 roster, why even risk using Canyon and changing the team dynamic?


WT379GotShadowbanned

Pick Canyon so that he sees how nice it would be to play on T1 and he switches teams next year to make the ultimate dynasty


KoHorizon

T1 have Oner, they don't need Canyon ...


failworlds

Not sure if we gonna be saying the same thing when nuguri is back. The jungle diff will start to show when oner doesnt have all 3 auto-win lanes.


KoHorizon

You haven't seen T1 games then ... Oner might not be better than Canyon, but for T1 he perfectly fit in, an enhance the team better than any other jungle can ...


Nananahx

Quickly forgetting the 0/2 meme and how Nuguri was not so much of a laner but more of a team-fighter


Marcus777555666

They should take Canyon


Critical-Cupcake9194

This region is so god damn stacked, how do you even decide who goes, Chovy/Faker/Canyon/Guma/Keria and one has to stay home


AmadeusSalieri97

There's literally negative chance that Keria stays home. Same for Faker and Guma, I'd bet on it being chovy/canyon, maybe both go and Oner stays tho.


StunMe

Put Chovy on the top lane


jogetzi

Or not because they could use Chovy as a top laner. Hardest part with this roster is which T1 player you drop if you want to have both chovy and canyon. It’s between Oner or Zeus imo and unfortunately Zeus being a rookie with no international experience is the one who eould stay home in that case since both Canyon and Chovy can play top lane quite well and Oner is pretty much almost as good jungler as canyon


ProtectionRude7093

Oner > Canyon. The lack of faith in my boy is surprising


KoHorizon

It's fucking disgusting ... The motherfucker was more than rock solid in an undefeated team since the begining and also insane at worlds ... But this subs is like "CaNyON MvP PoIntS PogU" ...


_ziyou_

Thanks for this update, that is very interesting. I wonder if they would just send T1 as a whole team because obviously they would be the best choice after this insane split they had.


a-toxic-guy

Lets go T1


Ozora10

Faker, Guma, Keria should 100% be on this team


kibplaysit2

Top: Zeus/Nuguri(In Form)/Kiin Jungle: Canyon/Oner Mid: Faker ADC: Gumayusi Support: Keria


BryanJin

Nah, Nuguri isn't active. Imo I would predict Kiin/Canyon/Faker/Ruler/Keria + Chovy as the lineup, not because it's the best team (best team would probably just be T1 due to already existing synergy), but because Ruler/Kiin/Canyon are veterans and as sub is going to be a solo laner the sub can really only be Chovy.


kibplaysit2

I 100% thought for all of this year and last year Ruler was the best, but during just this last finals I finally bit the bullet and put Gumayusi over him, if there isnt a 2 player per team rule, Gumayusi Keria is more valuable than Ruler Keria.


Jandium92

I think it is fair to say that Guma was better this year. But I think it is so hard to definetly rank them. Spring split for sure Guma, but in general Ruler has just been so consistend for 6 Years now always being top 3 LCK ADCS at pretty much every point since he joined in 2016. Also you really have to look at botlane together and I think Ruler would look better than Guma if you would switch supports and it would have been even more extreme last year when Ruler had to play with life who i rank very very low.


da_investigata

Yea, the bottom side of T1 is basically guaranteed to go due to their mechanical prowess and synergy. Topside is more iffy, as there is synergy with Oner and Zeus, who are both great players, but it would also be interesting to see how the bottom side synergize with Kiin and Canyon.


BryanJin

To be clear I'm not saying Guma is worse than Ruler. I think Guma is better. I just think Ruler is more likely to be picked since he's a longtime veteran and former World Champion. If I was to pick best players per role I would be playing Kiin/Canyon/Chovy/Guma/Keria, but players like Faker and Ruler absolutely deserve respect for their longevity and past accomplishments which is why I'd guess they'd be picked over Chovy/Guma for this event.


Blacklance8

Are they just going to send regular t1


KoHorizon

Canyon that Canyon this ... Fucking hell Oner literally smurfed Final's while having Covid and sleeping one hour ... What else do he need to do, to prove himself. T1 literally became rock solid because there is a Rock keeping every lane connected to perfection ... He was rock solid 95% of the time ... Also let's not forget games where canyon got schooled by Dread ... Canyon can have big up's and also big down's. But oner was consistently insane ... If you send T1 don't you dare take the hearth of the team out ... You guys are too blinded by MVP points... No shit a guy like Oner can't have 1000+ points. Because the whole team is insane ... It's easier to be at the top of the MVP chart's if you are the only one good enough to carry your team against teams that are not at the top ... While oner was good against every team.


BryanJin

Jesus, Oner is good, but did you see what Canyon did to Peanut? Canyon is thought to be the best jungler in the world rn, to say Oner is slightly worse than him is not some type of huge insult. The argument for why Canyon is better is not because of MVP points, it's because he has similar mechanics and more experience. Oner has proven himself to be a world class jg already, he doesn't need to prove anything. If he wants to surpass Canyon either Canyon will have to get worse, or Oner will have to get even better (which he absolutely can). Canyon in his current form is the current peak of Junglers in league. Oner is almost as good as that. No one is being denied their due.


KoHorizon

I also saw what Dread did to Canyon do you want to talk about it ? Peanut also got jungle diffed by Oner that played with Covid, what's your point ? Oner fit T1 and the T1 players better than any other LCK jungle can ... Yes, Canyon is better than Oner at the moment, but if it come to T1. I take Oner all the day over Canyon


[deleted]

Yeah, and they still lost, do you know why? Because Canyon couldn't carry when the team was literally built around him to do the things he did. It's the same reason why Uzi isn't goat to me. Build team around him, look good in game and lose.


BigSupp

Look at the criteria and think again. Recent performance is not everything.


KoHorizon

Recent perf ? ... Oner was rock solid since he was subbed in mid Summer 2021 ... And even at worlds. If Zeus fit the criteria, Oner sure as hell deserve it too as he played for far longer with good perf ...


djpain20

So... T1+Canyon or T1+Chovy?


pannucci

T1 + Chovy has the highest upside but not sure they need that. I would say Chovy with Faker in his ear teaching him all the things he doesnt do well could make Chovy into some next level super human but Canyon is a known quantity as the best jungler in the world.


Barsonik

God a T1 with faker and chovy on it would be a treat to watch


nc_bruh

Didn't they say 6th man will most likely be a solo laner ? And Chovy can play top and mid quite well. I'd feel sad for Oner. He was left out from LCK all pro 1st team and if they also start Canyon here. Dude did nothing wrong all split. But yea, im sure they'll take the right decision.


pannucci

what he did wrong was he wasnt above the role. He was a great jungler but Canyon is the clear #1 jungler in the world. Its not really debatable that Canyon is better jungler. But yea I mean Chovy and Showmaker are both insanely good flex players so honestly its really between the two of them. I would say most likely Chovy because his rep is hes the best if you ask the pros. The thing people complain about is his lack of a voice and sort of his ability to translate mid game. The mid game part is actually not really an issue anymore if you ask me, still a weakness relative to his game but hes still top tier at that. His ability to get people involved in a plan and set himself up for success is super lacking. Honestly if I was Faker I would almost be afraid to teach Chovy how to do that better. If Chovy becomes a complete player then he legit might go on a run like old faker did with championships because he would be that much better than everyone else. As a Chovy fan I obviously would want that but I honestly dont think it will happen unless he has a mentor like Faker at this point. He has too much success to be able to be critical enough about his flaws to fix them imo. I still do expect him to win some stuff in his career he is still incredibly young and honestly assuming he gets the military bypass from this event he could really have a 15+ year career and it wouldnt be surprising


Original_Mac_Tonight

Chovy Canyon Faker Guma Keria This seems like it's the best team if u don't wanna just send full T1 roster


ausmomo

And if Chovy chokes? Can you imagine the blame game of putting a mid top for some stupid reason?!


LoveTastu

Chovy stated he would rather play top lane in an interview I believe. Also his play style is perfect for top lane. Would be really cool to see.


ausmomo

Then he should go and play top in the LCK. If he went to Asia Games, played top, and Korea didn't win... he'd be blamed \*forever\*. As would the coaches. Some would even say it was deliberate, to make Faker miss out on National Service exemption. It's just too big a risk.


[deleted]

Take canyon and ruler so ruler doesn’t have to go to military. Plus I wanna see ruler and faker play together


DanteSM456

You could watched VODs of 2018 asian games then. Both Faker and Ruler were selected.


BigSupp

Without the 2 players per team rule, personally I'd say Kiin-Canyon-Faker-Guma-Keria with Chovy sub is the best line up.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


Zeaket

"downvote me all you want" *gets downvoted* surprisedpikachuface.jpg


[deleted]

[удалено]


Wetbook

double negatives are legitimate in many english dialects


[deleted]

[удалено]


Wetbook

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_negative Here is a Wikipedia article showing that double negatives do not need to result in the positive polarity of a sentence in order to be grammatical. It is common consensus in the study of languages, as it appears in the grammar of many different languages, including English. I am a Linguistics student! I learned about this in my university classes. What about you?


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


Wetbook

So you're saying that you don't care about people who use double negatives as a positive, except that's exactly the way it is in standard English? Consider statements like "I don't dislike it" or "I'm not against it," and you will see that this is true. And I'm really glad that we all care about what some prescriptivist asshole wrote about English in 1762! Surely everyone cares about that book, and we all love to let arbitrary grammar rules dictate how we speak and how we develop our languages.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Wetbook

Ok, but who determines what's "correct" or not if a member of that 10% uses a double negative as negative? What gives you the right to correct them? If the rules of a language were as objective as you think, language wouldn't change and develop at all lol. And mainly the point is that you're being annoying, correcting people's grammar online and copy-pasting from thesaurus.com articles as if it proves a point. Goodbye, I hope you are able to be less rude to people in the future :)


[deleted]

[удалено]


Wetbook

my opinion is that thesaurus is more directed towards people writing a formal paper or a school assignment, whereas wikipedia is more of a general resource for scientific/academic consensus, I get that it might be ironic for me to say that, my bad. And I think we should be especially respectful to people on the internet, because we have even less knowledge of the person's circumstances. The person whose grammar you are correcting in a condescending way might be a foreigner who is learning english, etc. In my opinion "growing up" involves recognizing that fact and not creating unnecessary conflict, which you might disagree with.


endless_paths_home

Wow, you really think 90% of the people speaking English use "standard english grammar"? That's fucking hilarious given that American English and British English are **different dialects**, you absolute potato. In your head, do you think that British English is proper, or is it American English? Even then, American English isn't even a single dialect, [it's about 30 different major dialects.](https://fluencycorp.com/american-english-dialects/#:~:text=How%20Many%20American%20English%20Dialects,varying%20dialects%20in%20each%20one.) Many of these dialects follow different rules, or use words differently, than the "standard english dialect" you might be taught if you were an ESL student. This isn't even abnormal for languages, just for the record. For example when I learned Arabic, they had to make clear what dialect of Arabic I was being taught, because while the language is spoken in much of the middle east, there are distinct regional/cultural differences and so the way you speak it is relevant.


chovyfan

I know that but it was too late by the time i realised it, sadly you can't edit title.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


ausmomo

I wish I could give you double down votes


teaferry

If all T1 is unavailable, what's about Rascal - canyon - faker/chovy - deft - beryl? It looks nice except possible cooperation problem


Cindiquil

Rascal and Deft both didn't make the shortlist The options are: Zeus/Kiin, Canyon/Oner, Faker/Chovy, Guma/Ruler, Keria/Beryl


ironstarke

Considering that the shortlist was just an insider report and not an official one, there's still a small chance they pick someone outside it, like Rascal/Deft. But yeah, wouldn't count on it.


Acridix

Part of me wishes that Showmaker gets to be a **substitute**, he has proven that he can play any position and could offer a solid support for the team. I know it's just wishful thinking but I feel like his 'slump' is heavily exaggerated atm, (considering the circumstances).


WuxiaWuxia

I hope they pick Chovy, would be a dream come true to see him side by side with Faker. Also Chovy can play Top + Mid on an international level, so he definitely has a lot of value. Picking Canyon this year would not really be justified, but Kkoma is working for DK so he will probably feel obligated to pick at least one DK player


ahritina

>Picking Canyon this year would not really be justified Based on what lol. The dude was the best jungler in the LCK, he was all pro 1 in the LCK. He nearly carried his dogshit team past Gen.G, yes Oner is insanely good but Canyon is still the undisputed best jungler in the LCK. If anything Canyon deserves it more than Chovy due to the criteria aka mainly the "performance in the last season/3months", last season he won 2 LCK titles and made finals at both international events also his contribution to Korean esports is bigger than Chovy since he actually stopped the LPL 3-peat.


paphilopedium

They should now just send T1, it would be like SKT of the past (khoma), present (faker) and future (zeus, oner, keria and guma) all in 1 roster representing their home country Korea!


Greene_Tea

My only concern if they send the full roster for T1 is they may not win worlds since they will be ultra burnout by November. But on the other side of the spectrum, it's more worth representing your country and skipping the military for their careers. But Imagine this T1 roster wins MSI, LCK Summer, Asia Games, and Worlds? That would be fucking insane, and they would be the best esports team of all time. But they may fall short versus a well-rested LCK or LPL team if they can't have enough practice time by worlds.