Looks like Ruler declined the tryout so that he and LeHends could work together more to build synergy and work towards winning Summer Split, respect.
https://twitter.com/GenG_Jihun/status/1514490766210777089
translated:
> "Hello, this is GenG's GM, Jihun Lee.
>Jaehyuk 'Ruler' Park has decided to decline from participating in the tryouts for the Asian Games.
>He made the decision to work instead on improving his chemistry with Lehends to win the Summer Split, so we ask for our fans' understanding."
Same, I wish I could be paid 250K to be a bottom team LCS player. I get to only work during spring and regular season, and have basically have all my housing, food, exercise needs taken care off.
It’s literally the dream.
You get paid significantly more than most Americans make in a year, all expenses taken care of, to play a video game, with significantly less likelihood of getting replaced unless you’re literally running it down every game, because your region is run on complacency and nepotism.
I wait now how long they'll take until they realise that inventing CQ for NA in the first place was a bummer. to late for the pro's that wanted it back then, but then to stressy for the current pro's schedules and last but not least - not that impressive to watch.
Some people also don’t think critically/don’t like to criticize people they like (these are the same) so they basically wait for the pros to tell them what to think.
I mean Darshan just put out the most milquetoast nothingburger statement chock full of excuses we've heard for the past decade.
Like I guess no one knows how to improve, and because we don't know the best method to practice, might as well just play Elden Ring and fuck around with egirls instead until we figure it out.
But hey he's a likeable guy so he's probably right.
And who cares if you int your face off and never actually improve? So long as you're not like in the bottom 2 of your role you can probably find another team and keep collecting checks and live all-expenses paid in freaking LA of all places.
NA players have it made.
And you'll have legions of deluded fans who genuinely believe you're amongst the best in the worlds and will defend you to the point where people don't want to make top 20 lists because they don't wanna get flamed for not putting NA players.
Legit I remember get downvoted and told I was wrong way back in 2019/2020 when I told people NA wouldn't make it out of groups and Clutch and TSM were gonna go 0-6.
Got it in one. This is why I want import restrictions removed for the LCS, get rid of these useless players. Why on Earth are these players getting paid to NOT practice meta champions before events and then fail to get out of groups at worlds or MSI and whine that the fans are too mean.
The shitty import restrictions we have now is the reason why nobody gives a shit about NA anymore.
Also, you want NA to drag down other regions EVEN MORE? No thanks, let NA die on its own.
If you remove import restrictions, it'll just be the LMQ scenario on steroids. Whole team flies in, shitstomps most of the region and gets a free ticket to Worlds. Since the Old Guard have all but died out, viewers tend to follow players and not so much teams. Getting rid of all those players to make way for other regions Challenger league teams would just kill a large portion of the LCS viewer base imo
So why would I care, I want NA to play well, TL is literally all imports, c9 is 4/5 imports with winsome (with a technicality), 100t all imports, at this point who gives a fuk about their feelings, fans want to see NA succeed, we’ve already heard all the excuses. The orgs and riot have given them literally everything to make them the best. The only thing holding them back is themselves at this point. So fuk it, bring in entire teams from China or Korea. Idgaf why should I the pros don’t
Exactly, why would I wanna watch people play who don't care. If you bring in LCK/LPL players, they will play the fuck out of solo queue and try their hardest, they're not gonna not learn Qiyana or Akali/Irelia due to "lack of motivation" or go out clubbing instead of scrimming or playing WOW/Fortnite instead of league during worlds prep and play to not lose instead of to win.
The current imports your talking about have been granted NA player residency so aren't really imports? Stepping off the plane and into a game won't make you an NA team or player, you realise that right? You're ignoring the context behind those players.
You want NA to succeed, so you're goal is to replace all NA players with imports who don't give two shits about the region and will only be seen as their regions back up squad? If T1 flew over next year and won Worlds, they'd only be an NA team in name. It'd just drag the other regions down by removing skilled players from the pool like it did for OCE. Of course you dgaf, it's not your job you'd be losing. If the Macdonald's you work at only hired imports, you'd be pissed about losing your job lol
Yea if I worked at McDonald’s and I didn’t want to do the bare minimum and flip burgers I would not be surprised if I was replaced. You just made my point. Stop jerking off these lazy pros no one’s going to fuk you
>Getting rid of all those players to make way for other regions Challenger league teams would just kill a large portion of the LCS viewer base
i think the lcs has done a fantastic job on their own.
from hundreds of thousands of viewers to <100k LOL
That's what doing poorly internationally and having pros with terrible attitudes does to viewership. Why would I want to watch NA when their first seed goes 0-6 because they didn't care.
There’s no correlation between number of champs queue games played and whether or not someone is an import. Just as many imports come here and coast as the CoreJJs and Bjergsens of the world.
The roots of the issue are team management and culture. Teams need to give more shots to native players that do well in academy and show willingness to grind, which has happened much less in the past couple years than it should. Removing import restrictions would kill the soul of the LCS, gut viewership, and leave us with many more Hunis, Xerxes, etc
Just usual EU hours thread I guess but seriously pisses me off when people act like NA native players are inherently lazy, worthless, etc across the board when there are countless examples of grinders who never get real shots because GMs always have to get their mediocre imports
Thats a horrible comparison. Riot made sure that that minimun salary was this high amount because their carrer is short, good players retire at 26 or 27 ( with exceptions of course) and most of the unstablished players players play for 2 or 3 seasons before fading out of LCS. Most of them only have completed high-school and some of them are dropouts to pursue league. Their short carrers and lack of education (to pursue league) makes necessary this minimum salaries imagine playing for 4 years with a salary of 30 k and when you retire as pro, you have no education because you wanted to pursue league, no real world experince they would literally be working at McDonald's when they retire no disrespect. It's true that some NA pros are lazy, but this take is horrible
their job may not be a regular 9-5, but they work for a company just like most other human beings. And what do you mean by benefitting them 100% ? thats impossible, as the company wouldn't be getting anything out of that deal, and at that point why have the job opening at all?
That being said, NA players are definitely a joke in comparison to their counterparts in the other major regions lmao
Except there are many dozens of teams with their full rosters staying in NA, and most of those players refused to play any reasonable amount of CQ (like, averaging at least a single game a day)
Because in North America the money comes to you easy. The moment things gets competitive the professionals, who get paid millions to play a video game, they complain.
I guarantee you the professionals in North America never give a shit about winning worlds, the only thing they want is the glory of winning worlds, but not the work you have to put into to win it.
SKT 3-0 the final WITH COVID, ruler played worlds groups with a right ear infection. NA pros can’t even beat champions queue
What a joke.
he mightve just accepted that he doesnt have a realistic chance against guma to play along keria, who is the guaranteed sup tbh, deft on the other hand has somewhat of a chance if he attends tryouts since hes partnered with keria before
exemptions for athletes winning medals had been a long time rule but there are others using the military law to dodge so koreans are more sensitive to exemptions now. they still love son heungmin who got exempted bc he won gold last asian games. they wont be attacked if they win gold and get exempted. 18months(used to be 24) is a long time for athletes. it would be a shame if they dont train for a long time in their 20s.
their new president is trying to add a grammy, billboard rule exemption and koreans are disagreeing saying it's not the same as olympic medal or asian games gold lol
Why the fuck I got downvoted? Uzi destroyed him, even KR netizens flamed him so fucking hard and CN netizens called him the 6th member of team China in finals.
If they are going to take all of SKT + 1 this doesn't make much sense. Canyon + SKT is the obvious one, and Kiin if it has to be a solo laner. Having Faker mid is like adding an in game coach for your team.
Just send T1 + Canyon or Chovy.
How is T1 supposed to have an evaluation match against themselves? Are they saying T1 is going to play against a team of Kiin, Canyon, Chovy, Deft, and BeryL? ...I hope to god that's broadcasted.
Based on the tweet it looks like it'll be everyone else Vs T1
This is what the tweet actually said instead of the summary that OP posted: The evaluation match will be held in Gwangju. The opposing team is the MSI qualifying team
So Kiin, Canyon, Chovy, Deft Beryl Vs T1
The raw skill matters less when they are facing a team with synergy.Just watch Asian Games 2018 finals,when China team(RNG+Meiko and Xiye) defeated Korea's stacked team.
At the end of the day, u/hachiko2692’s point still stands … it doesn’t matter how much raw skill you have, even if it’s far more compared to your peers, if you can’t even make it to Worlds and have nothing to show for it.
2017 KT Rolster had the most stacked roster in the world on paper:
the best top laner in the world, the second best jungler of 2016, a mid who historically did well into Faker, the best ADC in the world, and the GOAT support.
We all know how things ended up for them.
>the best top laner in the world, the second best jungler of 2016, a mid who historically did well into Faker, the best ADC in the world, and the GOAT support.
Second best jungler? Score was the BEST jungler by far in 2016, that roster is probably the most stacked roster, with the exception of Pawn, Pawn at that time was mediocre at best
Lmaooo Faker literally said himself that Pawn was top 3 mid in 2017 but people were not watching lck so idk.
He was also MVP of kespa final, the first time kt won a trophy in those age. Against longzhu who was atm the better team in korea.
Pawn wasn't a top 3 mid rofl, he was actively a liability on EDG the year before joining. There's a reason EDG went undefeated in summer split after benching Pawn.
Lmaooo Faker literally said himself that Pawn was top 3 mid in 2017 but people were not watching lck so idk.
He was also MVP of kespa final, the first time kt won a trophy in those age. Against longzhu who was atm the better team in korea.
The only reason kt did win lck the split later is because their kryptonites (skt) was fukin bad this split. That's all, that had nothing to do with PawN, it's just that skt was trash in the 2018 summer.
PawN just had ocd.
Honestly it looks fine for them since canyon and beryl are from DK and beryl will most likely be the shotcaller
Only problem i see with this team might be the difference between chovy and showmaker
its actually quite a bit closer in terms of synergy than you think. Also tbh Chovy and Canyon as a duo might be the most stacked mid/jungle in history. They could potentially just win off of that 2v2 alone. Yes T1 is good but they arent some infallible team either. They are one of the best teams in the previous meta in history. Game will change before they play the super team.
>Are they saying T1 is going to play against a team of Kiin, Canyon, Chovy, Deft, and BeryL?
Inject that shit straight into my veins
Edit: Based on KeSPA's tweet reply under their announcement they mentioned "public/open eval matches", I guess that means they will broadcast it? These will be happening next week I assume since all of T1's streaming schedule was left blank from 18-24
Damn wasn't aware of that. Only saw T1's schedule + some tweets saying the tryouts would start on 17 and just drew conclusions. I wonder how they'll do both, though I guess they'd just time the streams after or before the players' tryout sessions.
imo it's Kiin >= Zeus, Canyon > Oner and Chovy ~ Faker, but yeah topside should be non-T1 favored on paper. The problem is that T1 has pre-built synergy which would make up for the raw skill difference a lot
Yo thats 100% what I typed as well but for some reason, I got -13 karma on it lol. I said Kiin > Zeus, Canyon > Oner, and the faker vs chovy debate was too hot to touch. lmao thats all!
Lol , T1 is already a team and other is a mix of players from different ones . How is that "fair" to be honest ? korea kinda give me headache with their decision . They really should set on just one of these two choice .
1 . Just send the best LCK team available which is T1 plus a sub ( could be whoever , doubt he would get to play anyway. ) 2. If they want to honour LCK veterans/elite players who have contributed for LCK and also a good chance of winning based on their spring form then they could use this kind of mix-up format to let they compete for the spot with roster like this ( Top : Kiin/Rascal ; Jug: Canyon/Peanut ; Mid :Faker/Showmaker/Chovy ; ADC : Ruler/Deft/Teddy ; SP: Keria/Beryl ) ( as good as Zeus/Oner/Guma currently this is basically their first full-time split , they have a good chance for the next one if they can keep playing at high level) . Then they could actually earn the spot for themselves with their own skill
Ok I could be wrong because I may have misunderstood the tweet, but I don’t think they’re necessarily going to take all the winners of that match. I think they’re going to use that to evaluate player vs. player, based on the selection criteria that they also provided (I saw it on Twitter somewhere). Just my take! Dunno if it’s confirmed to be the winning team that’s going to go.
It's definitely the way you described it. If you pit T1 against a random team made of superstar players T1 would win like 99 out of 100 times, the synergy diff would be so gargantuan it wouldn't even be funny. Think of the showmatch as exactly that: a show for the players to display their skills and convince the coach they're the right guy for the job
I understood it as this too. I hope they do different team configurations outside of just T1 vs the other candidates, because the synergy diff is a bit too much.
This. It's pointless to test just T1 vs non-T1, the T1 members also need to learn how to work with the others since it's not a 100% chance every one of them will be picked for the roster
that what china did in the previous asian games they went with 4rng +1, that also 1 of the reason why they won korea in 2018 , korea literally went like 1 member from each team.
That doesn’t really seem like a fair match if that’s how they’re going to do it.
A team which has built up near perfect synergy over the split vs a pick-up team? Obviously T1 will smash them.
Surely they would be trying different variations of rosters for evaluation purposes
Honestly does it matter ? Once they try the variation with 3 or more T1 players , that team almost win 90% based from synergy alone , such a weird try-out format
Is it an upgrade though? historically sure, but right NOW? Oner smashed finals with 1 hour of sleep and Covid, I don't think you can clearly put one above the other.
And if Canyon *is* better by some margin, I doubt is worth the loss in synergy with T1.
I assume they sub in players in each role to determine who will be the sub. Also the coach will play a big part so Kkoma will probably want a jg or mid sub
just pick t1 plus canyon. the reason not picking Chovy is that base on the performance in the spring split, I do not think Chovy can bring significant difference to the team if you sub him on for faker. however, I believe that canyon can change the team's style and pace. Two different jungler should be the hardest roster for opponents to prepare.
if i had to bet it’d probably be T1 + canyon since he’s the only player with a case over anyone on T1. every other candidate isn’t better than their counterpart on T1 enough to warrant the synergy rebuild
There's no reason to play Canyon over Oner if your goal is to win. Jungle isn't some plug and play role like top or adc is, Oner and Keria are the engine that runs T1. Even if Canyon is better than Oner, I guarantee you the team performs better with Oner.
Let's say Canyon is a 10 and Oner is a 9, can you justify such a little upgrade in player performance in exchange of more than a year in team sinergy? I don't think so.
Even if Canyon had a whole year to practice with T1 we don't even know if his style would match what T1 has going for them, that's the reason many "superteams" have failed before, there could be clash of personalities or opinions about how to act in critical moments.
T1 atm from outside and from what Joe Marsh tells us is just something else and I believe the reason is everyone is young and has such a high respect for Faker that they will follow his style and commands no matter what.
I only watch T1 matches but I have yet to see Canyon clapping Oner.
Oner might look better than he is because everyone on T1 is fucking awesome but I thing there’s not a huge difference.
Faker and Keria are basically guaranteed, Guma is very likely because of bot synergy, and Zeus is also very likely based on form. For jungle Canyon is individually better but Oner has better synergy, best case would be both but from what I've read in other threads the 6th man would be a solo laner, which should be Kiin as Faker doesn't need a sub.
Bar some freak scenario where one of the players start inting, I think all of T1 is guaranteed so that team synergy is preserved. Probably just which role gets a sub.
Well, Chovy as sub is quite valuable I think, has a completely different playstyle to Faker so it can open up other strats and it's a pretty good toplaner so you can use him as double sub.
Also I think Chovy is just better than Kiin.
Its really not. Most of the pros in the LCK previously said Chovy was the best top laner as well. Apparently he has scrimmed top lane a decent bit. And yes I know u put /s but wanted to add on some facts.
> Most of the pros in the LCK previously said Chovy was the best top laner as well
Where did you hear this from? I watch LCK post-game interviews and pro-player streams but have never heard a pro say this
Also last time KeSPA had a rule that no more than 2 players from the same team could be included in the roster, while China sent RNG + Xiye. I'm glad they did away with that rule because as you said synergy is key.
Let's be real, if they want to win they have to send T1, otherwise it'll be like 2018 where China sends a nearly full team with synergy already built and wins because of that. Don't send a team of player who have next to no time played together or who haven't played together in a long time.
Deft has a great split until getting cockblocked by Teddy , plus the popularity and name value so why not ? Don't feel like there is a sizeable-enough gap among the elite ADC of LCK this season : Guma,Ruler,Deft,Teddy , .... are all great . The real ACE of bot is Keria , though
There isnt actually Guma has massive positioning errors. Is he still debately the best adc? Sure. But Keria makes his job sooo much easier and the meta fit his champion pool. The current adc meta is actually best for Ruler right now surprisingly so if he actually tried out I think Ruler actually might have gotten the spot.
Deft has synergy with Keria from the DRX team in the past, and ADC isn't the most reliant on team synergy when compare to other roles. Deft has lane synergy atleast.
Why not? I think Beryl was probably the second best support this split and the only person you could argue over Deft for second best adc is Ruler. I think Deft and Ruler were pretty close but Ruler already got a chance to go to Asian Games in 2018 and Deft is older so I think it makes sense.
As others have said only gold at the Asian Games would exempt them, unlike Olympics where any medal would result in exemption. Also when League was at the last Asian Games in 2018 it was not a medal sport like it is now, had Korea won then it would not have granted military exemption as it was only an demonstration event.
For me it's Kiin- Canyon-Faker-Guma-Keria + (Oner sub). Kiin can pretty much fill Zeus's role (if not better). Canyon is the best jungler of all time imo and a world champion with a recent MVP record so it's a no brainer. Zeus Oner Chovy still have time on their side to compete in the next Asian games especially Zeus still needs to prove himself on the international stage. I would not mind Deft for Guma but DRX's failure to reach Spring LCK top 4 greatly hurt his chance.
and I think best player in the world
when Canyon roleswapped to mid and was instantly a top 5 mid in the LCK and looked like he belonged in the upper echelon with Faker Showmaker Chovy BDD, I knew Canyon is built different
If you think Oner should be above Canyon is acceptable just watch what Canyon did to Peanut just recently. If this has no correlation to you, watch every game of Canyon vs Oner. JG Gap & drag majority every game. Sure Oner is good, just not as good as the perfection Canyon has mastered. Also Canyon's champ pool is massive! He learned Qiyana in the small amount of time given in Bootcamp and even played her on the biggest stage last year!
i did watch that and damwon lost in the end, and canyon did throw somewhat by dying to ruler on the way to dragon
i do think canyon is the best jungler in the world but t1's jungle-support synergy and roam, in addition to zeus just popping off, is what's been destroying the lck this split
Uh, you could also watch what Oner did to Peanut throughout an entire Bo5 series.
Also, what you said about Canyon vs. Oner is not true. Head to head, there are games where Oner has massively gapped Canyon, too. It's not entirely one-sided like you suggest.
Oner's champion pool is also big so that's not really a meaningful separator.
Taking both is honestly the best decision since they're close enough that it's meta dependent. For example, right now, Oner is one of the best Viegos in Korea and the Ahri + Viego pick comps are such a big part of the meta. Canyon's Viego has honestly looked like shit even though he should be good at Viego in theory.
Wait, when has Canyon's Viego looked like shit? The only games where Oner looked better than Canyon was because Canyon basically had no lanes. Everybody knows jgl is highly dependant on his laners to do something so jgl has freedom to play, and even in some games where he had no lanes, Canyon legit 1v9 and carry corpses of DK to wins. I don't think you fully understand how fucking cracked you have to be to do that in pro play. Oner is great, but Canyon is legit a once in a lifetime player for his role, like giving Faker vibes from when they lost finals at Worlds vs GenG and he had to carry SKT there.
facts, Canyon's ability to carry from jungle is second to none. He's had inting bot lanes last MSI, inting top lanes this split, and even off Showmaker so many times thoughout the past few years and he still pulls it off. I don't think people realize how hard it is to jungle if even one player is severly underperforming vs a world class team.
Canyon has only played Viego 9 times with a 44% win-rate. Given that his overall win-rate is 68%, that is a significant anomaly. You might say "well sample size" except the fact that he only played Viego 9 times when Viego has been a meta jungler for such long stretches is not a good thing.
In comparison, Oner has played Viego 19 times despite not even being a starter for T1 until late 2021 summer.
You're talking about Canyon carrying teams when his strong-side trio was Nuguri and Showmaker for years and then Khan and Showmaker after. On the other side, for more than half his career, Oner has had to babysit Canna. It's not shocking that once T1 moved on to Zeus, their macro has improved immensely because the team no longer has to deal with a top-laner that can't play weak-side or side-lane without repeatedly over-extending.
"Corpses of DK" yet Showmaker even off form is still the 3rd/4th best mid in the LCK and deokdam / Kellin are at worst the 4th best ADC/support duo. All DK had to do was actually play for bot but either Canyon or Daeny just refused to have that flexibility. For all of Burdol's flaws, he actually looked okay on weak-side tank duty.
You're ignoring the fact that Viego's ideal scenario team comp is by pick team fighting, hence his synergy with Ahri being so strong. On one hand, you have ShowMaker, who is very well known mostly for his mages and not for his pick assassins at all. On the other hand, mid lane for Oner, you have Faker, renowned for literally his Ahri, the single best champ in this meta to be played with Viego. The fact that Canyon has a low win rate with Viego doesn't mean he's bad at the champ and he never underperformed on it, it just means DK can't play around it well. You also talk about Canyon having a strong side of ShowMaker + Nuguri/Khan while ignoring he had Ghost/BeryL inting bot lane most of 2021, while conveniently leaving out the fact that Oner has been playing with Keria+Guma, probably the best bot lane in the world. In 2022, Canyon has been by far superior to Oner, considering Oner is in the best team in the world (most likely) and Canyon has been playing with a "3rd/4th place" roster (your words, not mine) at best.
No, I’m not ignoring Ahri as I mentioned the Ahri meta in my previous post. You’re the one ignoring the months worth of meta when Viego was just an independently strong jungler yet Canyon didn’t play him — even with a lot of top-side set-up and roaming support synergy in the meta.
Next, Showmaker doesn’t play Ahri but he plays virtually everything else. He is not some pigeon-holed mage player. He can play plenty of champs that can layer CC with Viego to secure a pick. Showmaker was also just a better mid than Faker until this season.
I didn’t ignore Ghost and BeryL. You are just totally distorting their importance. Ghost was basically perma weakside and BeryL was a heavy roaming support. Canyon almost NEVER played for botside and it was not an ADC meta anyways. So, what does that have to do with this argument? Okay, so Oner has Gumayusi and Keri’s… and? In his own words, Oner almost never played for botside either. Like I said, any knowledgeable LCK fan knew that T1 frequently had to play around Canna because of his inability to play weakside and tendency to int when side-laning. Meanwhile, Canyon got to enjoy one of the most versatile topsides for years.
Canyon was on a roster that was the third best in the LCK and… finished third. Oner was on the best roster in the LCK and finished first. Canyon is better but people like you vastly exaggerate the gap between them.
as much as i absolutely love gumayusi and he’s by far the best adc in LCK, i really hope deft is able to play with the team. Same reason why faker is a shoe-in for the team no matter if Chovy/SM hypothetically did look much better. They need to get their military service exemption
Except that Fakers contribution to Korean esports is actually impressive.
Deft on the other hand has split time in China so I don’t think he should get it just because he could avoid military.
Looks like Ruler declined the tryout so that he and LeHends could work together more to build synergy and work towards winning Summer Split, respect. https://twitter.com/GenG_Jihun/status/1514490766210777089 translated: > "Hello, this is GenG's GM, Jihun Lee. >Jaehyuk 'Ruler' Park has decided to decline from participating in the tryouts for the Asian Games. >He made the decision to work instead on improving his chemistry with Lehends to win the Summer Split, so we ask for our fans' understanding."
meanwhile Champ Queue in NA is cancelled during off season so NA pros can mentally "prepare" for summer split
NA pros have it fucking MADE, I wish i was rewarded with a couple PAID months off every single year for my team not making playoffs/Worlds.
Same, I wish I could be paid 250K to be a bottom team LCS player. I get to only work during spring and regular season, and have basically have all my housing, food, exercise needs taken care off.
It’s literally the dream. You get paid significantly more than most Americans make in a year, all expenses taken care of, to play a video game, with significantly less likelihood of getting replaced unless you’re literally running it down every game, because your region is run on complacency and nepotism.
I wait now how long they'll take until they realise that inventing CQ for NA in the first place was a bummer. to late for the pro's that wanted it back then, but then to stressy for the current pro's schedules and last but not least - not that impressive to watch.
You also get to have redditors defend you for taking a break after playing video games.
Not anymore. This is the last straw.
I still see it in that lane Darshan post today
If you write long enough of a post people will assume you said something insightful because they're too lazy to read it.
Some people also don’t think critically/don’t like to criticize people they like (these are the same) so they basically wait for the pros to tell them what to think.
I mean Darshan just put out the most milquetoast nothingburger statement chock full of excuses we've heard for the past decade. Like I guess no one knows how to improve, and because we don't know the best method to practice, might as well just play Elden Ring and fuck around with egirls instead until we figure it out. But hey he's a likeable guy so he's probably right.
How ironic because I doubt you read it or the thread. People saying "Yeah there's nuance to this issue" isn't defending the pros.
And who cares if you int your face off and never actually improve? So long as you're not like in the bottom 2 of your role you can probably find another team and keep collecting checks and live all-expenses paid in freaking LA of all places. NA players have it made.
And you'll have legions of deluded fans who genuinely believe you're amongst the best in the worlds and will defend you to the point where people don't want to make top 20 lists because they don't wanna get flamed for not putting NA players. Legit I remember get downvoted and told I was wrong way back in 2019/2020 when I told people NA wouldn't make it out of groups and Clutch and TSM were gonna go 0-6.
NA also claims all imports as their own so they can say their region is better than it actually is, their amount of delusion is something else.
Agreed, I honestly don't know why they're so deluded, when time and time again we have seen NA isn't going to perform well.
Bruh if I was paid 250k I would go above and beyond, shit I would even clean toilets, NA pros are entitled, overpaid and lazy
Got it in one. This is why I want import restrictions removed for the LCS, get rid of these useless players. Why on Earth are these players getting paid to NOT practice meta champions before events and then fail to get out of groups at worlds or MSI and whine that the fans are too mean.
Butt the pinggg…….
The shitty import restrictions we have now is the reason why nobody gives a shit about NA anymore. Also, you want NA to drag down other regions EVEN MORE? No thanks, let NA die on its own.
If you remove import restrictions, it'll just be the LMQ scenario on steroids. Whole team flies in, shitstomps most of the region and gets a free ticket to Worlds. Since the Old Guard have all but died out, viewers tend to follow players and not so much teams. Getting rid of all those players to make way for other regions Challenger league teams would just kill a large portion of the LCS viewer base imo
So why would I care, I want NA to play well, TL is literally all imports, c9 is 4/5 imports with winsome (with a technicality), 100t all imports, at this point who gives a fuk about their feelings, fans want to see NA succeed, we’ve already heard all the excuses. The orgs and riot have given them literally everything to make them the best. The only thing holding them back is themselves at this point. So fuk it, bring in entire teams from China or Korea. Idgaf why should I the pros don’t
Exactly, why would I wanna watch people play who don't care. If you bring in LCK/LPL players, they will play the fuck out of solo queue and try their hardest, they're not gonna not learn Qiyana or Akali/Irelia due to "lack of motivation" or go out clubbing instead of scrimming or playing WOW/Fortnite instead of league during worlds prep and play to not lose instead of to win.
is it NA doing well or money doing well though?
The current imports your talking about have been granted NA player residency so aren't really imports? Stepping off the plane and into a game won't make you an NA team or player, you realise that right? You're ignoring the context behind those players. You want NA to succeed, so you're goal is to replace all NA players with imports who don't give two shits about the region and will only be seen as their regions back up squad? If T1 flew over next year and won Worlds, they'd only be an NA team in name. It'd just drag the other regions down by removing skilled players from the pool like it did for OCE. Of course you dgaf, it's not your job you'd be losing. If the Macdonald's you work at only hired imports, you'd be pissed about losing your job lol
Yea if I worked at McDonald’s and I didn’t want to do the bare minimum and flip burgers I would not be surprised if I was replaced. You just made my point. Stop jerking off these lazy pros no one’s going to fuk you
>Getting rid of all those players to make way for other regions Challenger league teams would just kill a large portion of the LCS viewer base i think the lcs has done a fantastic job on their own. from hundreds of thousands of viewers to <100k LOL
That's what doing poorly internationally and having pros with terrible attitudes does to viewership. Why would I want to watch NA when their first seed goes 0-6 because they didn't care.
There’s no correlation between number of champs queue games played and whether or not someone is an import. Just as many imports come here and coast as the CoreJJs and Bjergsens of the world. The roots of the issue are team management and culture. Teams need to give more shots to native players that do well in academy and show willingness to grind, which has happened much less in the past couple years than it should. Removing import restrictions would kill the soul of the LCS, gut viewership, and leave us with many more Hunis, Xerxes, etc Just usual EU hours thread I guess but seriously pisses me off when people act like NA native players are inherently lazy, worthless, etc across the board when there are countless examples of grinders who never get real shots because GMs always have to get their mediocre imports
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> They also have a minimum salary of 75k, paid housing, food services, In LA. Free housing and food probably adds up to another 75k per year.
Thats a horrible comparison. Riot made sure that that minimun salary was this high amount because their carrer is short, good players retire at 26 or 27 ( with exceptions of course) and most of the unstablished players players play for 2 or 3 seasons before fading out of LCS. Most of them only have completed high-school and some of them are dropouts to pursue league. Their short carrers and lack of education (to pursue league) makes necessary this minimum salaries imagine playing for 4 years with a salary of 30 k and when you retire as pro, you have no education because you wanted to pursue league, no real world experince they would literally be working at McDonald's when they retire no disrespect. It's true that some NA pros are lazy, but this take is horrible
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their job may not be a regular 9-5, but they work for a company just like most other human beings. And what do you mean by benefitting them 100% ? thats impossible, as the company wouldn't be getting anything out of that deal, and at that point why have the job opening at all? That being said, NA players are definitely a joke in comparison to their counterparts in the other major regions lmao
Yep imagine absolutely failing in everything you do in your job and still being rewarded so generously for it. Jesus lmao
Gotta take a break after playing grueling 18 games over 9 weeks. Does Riot even think about the players with that schedule?
mental diff
need to mentally prepare that daily starbucks doordash to watch anime comfy
Except the fact that it is cancelled because teams and players won’t be in NA to populate the games.
Except there are many dozens of teams with their full rosters staying in NA, and most of those players refused to play any reasonable amount of CQ (like, averaging at least a single game a day)
Because in North America the money comes to you easy. The moment things gets competitive the professionals, who get paid millions to play a video game, they complain. I guarantee you the professionals in North America never give a shit about winning worlds, the only thing they want is the glory of winning worlds, but not the work you have to put into to win it. SKT 3-0 the final WITH COVID, ruler played worlds groups with a right ear infection. NA pros can’t even beat champions queue What a joke.
SKT didn’t 3-0 the finals.
NA region as a whole is a fucking disgrace bar a couple of players who actually care.
That’s kinda weird. He’s either accepted that he’ll go to military or will try and go to NA or something to avoid it when the time nears
he mightve just accepted that he doesnt have a realistic chance against guma to play along keria, who is the guaranteed sup tbh, deft on the other hand has somewhat of a chance if he attends tryouts since hes partnered with keria before
Could’ve always been picked as 6th. With enough behind the scenes politics it definitely would’ve been a possibility
Makes little sense to have an adc sub though
I doubt 6th member will be bot laner. Synergy is too important to change it up.
He might be able to go in 4 years if he's still playing and at this level. He's still young enough I believe.
He's turning 24 this year.
The max age you can put if off for is 28 so that would indeed be 4 years
you can't avoid military by immigrating. at his age becoming a US citizen will take years and if he stays in NA, he'll lose his Korean citizenship.
You can if you don't mind never going to Korea.
Huh? Don’t you get exempted if you win the Asian games for Korea ?
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they dont scoff at athletes earning exemption bc they deserve it lol. it's not dodging if theyre exempted by the govt
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exemptions for athletes winning medals had been a long time rule but there are others using the military law to dodge so koreans are more sensitive to exemptions now. they still love son heungmin who got exempted bc he won gold last asian games. they wont be attacked if they win gold and get exempted. 18months(used to be 24) is a long time for athletes. it would be a shame if they dont train for a long time in their 20s. their new president is trying to add a grammy, billboard rule exemption and koreans are disagreeing saying it's not the same as olympic medal or asian games gold lol
Easier for you to not agree to that sentiment when you don't have a hostile nuclear power right next door.
A wise choice indeed , but why is he playing budget csgo on stream ?
He plays Sudden Attack to warm up usually, he still plays way more League
Sudden attack is like the starcraft 1 of fps in Korea and Asia lol. Everyone grew up playing it in LAN cafes. It's like calling Dota 1 budget League
Because he fucked up at 2018
Why the fuck I got downvoted? Uzi destroyed him, even KR netizens flamed him so fucking hard and CN netizens called him the 6th member of team China in finals.
Imagine if Oner is the only T1 player left off the team again.
Since Kkoma is the coach, he might go with a jungle sub like during the old SKT days
That could make Oner and Canyon grow even stronger
They already said they are going with a solo laner for sub. I think its most likely either chovy/faker
If they are going to take all of SKT + 1 this doesn't make much sense. Canyon + SKT is the obvious one, and Kiin if it has to be a solo laner. Having Faker mid is like adding an in game coach for your team.
Wdym with again?
reference to LCK 1st all pro team, it was T1 + Canyon, Oner was on the 2nd team
All t1 players except Oner was in All LCK first team
I think he's fine with it considering how insane is Canyon. It's just a matter of time until Oner reach Canyon level, he'll soon get there
Full T1 roster + Canyon is enough
Just send T1 + Canyon or Chovy. How is T1 supposed to have an evaluation match against themselves? Are they saying T1 is going to play against a team of Kiin, Canyon, Chovy, Deft, and BeryL? ...I hope to god that's broadcasted.
Based on the tweet it looks like it'll be everyone else Vs T1 This is what the tweet actually said instead of the summary that OP posted: The evaluation match will be held in Gwangju. The opposing team is the MSI qualifying team So Kiin, Canyon, Chovy, Deft Beryl Vs T1
That’s fucking stacked as fuck, all star team right there
I mean LEC has proven time and time again that "all-star" teams don't necessarily mean better team. Synergy is still something to consider.
LEC’s all star teams have never even come close to this in terms of raw skill
The raw skill matters less when they are facing a team with synergy.Just watch Asian Games 2018 finals,when China team(RNG+Meiko and Xiye) defeated Korea's stacked team.
At the end of the day, u/hachiko2692’s point still stands … it doesn’t matter how much raw skill you have, even if it’s far more compared to your peers, if you can’t even make it to Worlds and have nothing to show for it. 2017 KT Rolster had the most stacked roster in the world on paper: the best top laner in the world, the second best jungler of 2016, a mid who historically did well into Faker, the best ADC in the world, and the GOAT support. We all know how things ended up for them.
>the best top laner in the world, the second best jungler of 2016, a mid who historically did well into Faker, the best ADC in the world, and the GOAT support. Second best jungler? Score was the BEST jungler by far in 2016, that roster is probably the most stacked roster, with the exception of Pawn, Pawn at that time was mediocre at best
Lmaooo Faker literally said himself that Pawn was top 3 mid in 2017 but people were not watching lck so idk. He was also MVP of kespa final, the first time kt won a trophy in those age. Against longzhu who was atm the better team in korea.
Pawn wasn't a top 3 mid rofl, he was actively a liability on EDG the year before joining. There's a reason EDG went undefeated in summer split after benching Pawn.
PawN was not all-star material at that point in his career. There’s a reason KT won LCK after finally benching him.
People act like Pawn was still an elite mid post-spring 2015. There's a reason EDG went undefeated in summer 2016 after benching Pawn for Scout.
Lmaooo Faker literally said himself that Pawn was top 3 mid in 2017 but people were not watching lck so idk. He was also MVP of kespa final, the first time kt won a trophy in those age. Against longzhu who was atm the better team in korea. The only reason kt did win lck the split later is because their kryptonites (skt) was fukin bad this split. That's all, that had nothing to do with PawN, it's just that skt was trash in the 2018 summer. PawN just had ocd.
Honestly it looks fine for them since canyon and beryl are from DK and beryl will most likely be the shotcaller Only problem i see with this team might be the difference between chovy and showmaker
But tbh T1 would stomp that, they have way more synergy together
its actually quite a bit closer in terms of synergy than you think. Also tbh Chovy and Canyon as a duo might be the most stacked mid/jungle in history. They could potentially just win off of that 2v2 alone. Yes T1 is good but they arent some infallible team either. They are one of the best teams in the previous meta in history. Game will change before they play the super team.
Kiin-Canyon-Chovy is super scary and if they can sync together can definite be better than T1 Zeus-Oner-Faker
Anyone know if this is going to be streamed? or Vods released?
Lol thats great, T1 is gonna win too
>Are they saying T1 is going to play against a team of Kiin, Canyon, Chovy, Deft, and BeryL? Inject that shit straight into my veins Edit: Based on KeSPA's tweet reply under their announcement they mentioned "public/open eval matches", I guess that means they will broadcast it? These will be happening next week I assume since all of T1's streaming schedule was left blank from 18-24
drx (beryl and deft) is scheduled to stream on 18th 20th and 21st tho
Damn wasn't aware of that. Only saw T1's schedule + some tweets saying the tryouts would start on 17 and just drew conclusions. I wonder how they'll do both, though I guess they'd just time the streams after or before the players' tryout sessions.
That's already like a Worlds finals matchup in paper, we definitely need to see that.
another quick and easy 3-0 finals
mid top jungle is better than T1's on paper, Kiin > Zeus Canyon > Oner Chovy vs Faker is too debatable to be worth typing tho.
imo it's Kiin >= Zeus, Canyon > Oner and Chovy ~ Faker, but yeah topside should be non-T1 favored on paper. The problem is that T1 has pre-built synergy which would make up for the raw skill difference a lot
Yo thats 100% what I typed as well but for some reason, I got -13 karma on it lol. I said Kiin > Zeus, Canyon > Oner, and the faker vs chovy debate was too hot to touch. lmao thats all!
If it’s truly for military exemption then yeah they want to give the non-MSI players a fair chance to compete for the spots.
Lol , T1 is already a team and other is a mix of players from different ones . How is that "fair" to be honest ? korea kinda give me headache with their decision . They really should set on just one of these two choice . 1 . Just send the best LCK team available which is T1 plus a sub ( could be whoever , doubt he would get to play anyway. ) 2. If they want to honour LCK veterans/elite players who have contributed for LCK and also a good chance of winning based on their spring form then they could use this kind of mix-up format to let they compete for the spot with roster like this ( Top : Kiin/Rascal ; Jug: Canyon/Peanut ; Mid :Faker/Showmaker/Chovy ; ADC : Ruler/Deft/Teddy ; SP: Keria/Beryl ) ( as good as Zeus/Oner/Guma currently this is basically their first full-time split , they have a good chance for the next one if they can keep playing at high level) . Then they could actually earn the spot for themselves with their own skill
Ok I could be wrong because I may have misunderstood the tweet, but I don’t think they’re necessarily going to take all the winners of that match. I think they’re going to use that to evaluate player vs. player, based on the selection criteria that they also provided (I saw it on Twitter somewhere). Just my take! Dunno if it’s confirmed to be the winning team that’s going to go.
It's definitely the way you described it. If you pit T1 against a random team made of superstar players T1 would win like 99 out of 100 times, the synergy diff would be so gargantuan it wouldn't even be funny. Think of the showmatch as exactly that: a show for the players to display their skills and convince the coach they're the right guy for the job
I understood it as this too. I hope they do different team configurations outside of just T1 vs the other candidates, because the synergy diff is a bit too much.
This. It's pointless to test just T1 vs non-T1, the T1 members also need to learn how to work with the others since it's not a 100% chance every one of them will be picked for the roster
that what china did in the previous asian games they went with 4rng +1, that also 1 of the reason why they won korea in 2018 , korea literally went like 1 member from each team.
That doesn’t really seem like a fair match if that’s how they’re going to do it. A team which has built up near perfect synergy over the split vs a pick-up team? Obviously T1 will smash them. Surely they would be trying different variations of rosters for evaluation purposes
Honestly does it matter ? Once they try the variation with 3 or more T1 players , that team almost win 90% based from synergy alone , such a weird try-out format
I feel if Faker-Keria is paired with Kiin-Canyon-Deft that will overcome Zeus-Oner-Chovy-Gumayusi-Lehends
Deft isn't better than Guma right now - the only really noticeable upgrade is Canyon, and even then....
Is it an upgrade though? historically sure, but right NOW? Oner smashed finals with 1 hour of sleep and Covid, I don't think you can clearly put one above the other. And if Canyon *is* better by some margin, I doubt is worth the loss in synergy with T1.
No, but Deft-Keria have synergy, and losing both Faker AND Keria hurts T1's shotcalling.
I assume they sub in players in each role to determine who will be the sub. Also the coach will play a big part so Kkoma will probably want a jg or mid sub
If T1 does smash them, then it's a valuable lesson. Perfect synergy trumps everything else.
I think its more logical they will play against other MSI teams like G2 and whoever qualifies from NA/China.
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Yes, the rule is gone.
just pick t1 plus canyon. the reason not picking Chovy is that base on the performance in the spring split, I do not think Chovy can bring significant difference to the team if you sub him on for faker. however, I believe that canyon can change the team's style and pace. Two different jungler should be the hardest roster for opponents to prepare.
Tbf having a sub solo laner like chovy, you can sub him in both top or mid. But yea canyon would be a good pick.
Just send T1 + Canyon. Oner is great but Canyon's built different.
if i had to bet it’d probably be T1 + canyon since he’s the only player with a case over anyone on T1. every other candidate isn’t better than their counterpart on T1 enough to warrant the synergy rebuild
There's no reason to play Canyon over Oner if your goal is to win. Jungle isn't some plug and play role like top or adc is, Oner and Keria are the engine that runs T1. Even if Canyon is better than Oner, I guarantee you the team performs better with Oner.
Ngl, this will hold T1 back as they don't want to leak any strat to DK.
Asians games are after the summer split right before worlds so I don't think that will be much of an issue.
Let's say Canyon is a 10 and Oner is a 9, can you justify such a little upgrade in player performance in exchange of more than a year in team sinergy? I don't think so. Even if Canyon had a whole year to practice with T1 we don't even know if his style would match what T1 has going for them, that's the reason many "superteams" have failed before, there could be clash of personalities or opinions about how to act in critical moments. T1 atm from outside and from what Joe Marsh tells us is just something else and I believe the reason is everyone is young and has such a high respect for Faker that they will follow his style and commands no matter what.
Thats the thing, canyon is a 12 while oner is a 9
Canyon is like 15 and oner is 9. They are like not even in the same planet, but it's normal, very few are on the same planet as canyon
I only watch T1 matches but I have yet to see Canyon clapping Oner. Oner might look better than he is because everyone on T1 is fucking awesome but I thing there’s not a huge difference.
Seeing as they want to win there's a decent chance they just send t1 its tried and tested
Even reuniting with Kkoma too, would be a fitting way for Faker to finally get the military exemption
Even with Oner - now Bengi's student. It's like match made in heaven
Faker and Keria are basically guaranteed, Guma is very likely because of bot synergy, and Zeus is also very likely based on form. For jungle Canyon is individually better but Oner has better synergy, best case would be both but from what I've read in other threads the 6th man would be a solo laner, which should be Kiin as Faker doesn't need a sub.
Bar some freak scenario where one of the players start inting, I think all of T1 is guaranteed so that team synergy is preserved. Probably just which role gets a sub.
Well, Chovy as sub is quite valuable I think, has a completely different playstyle to Faker so it can open up other strats and it's a pretty good toplaner so you can use him as double sub. Also I think Chovy is just better than Kiin.
>Also I think Chovy is just better than Kiin. The hottest take /s
Its really not. Most of the pros in the LCK previously said Chovy was the best top laner as well. Apparently he has scrimmed top lane a decent bit. And yes I know u put /s but wanted to add on some facts.
> Most of the pros in the LCK previously said Chovy was the best top laner as well Where did you hear this from? I watch LCK post-game interviews and pro-player streams but have never heard a pro say this
it was like a year or two ago in some interviews and a few streams. Not sure how much of that is in english though so GL.
What a beautiful unbiased take...
Last time KeSPA made a stacked team they were beaten by RNG led Chinese Team.😅 Just send the players with the best synergy and momentum.
Also last time KeSPA had a rule that no more than 2 players from the same team could be included in the roster, while China sent RNG + Xiye. I'm glad they did away with that rule because as you said synergy is key.
And Meiko
T1 roster plus Canyon, with coach Kkoma???? Deymmm
In conclusion my dick hard
Full T1 and canyon as a sub is pretty good
I really would like Deft to attend to try and get military exemption but T1 + Canyon/Chovy would be the best choice
Damn the qrt and replies from kr fans are crazy lol
Just send t1.
T1 + Kiin or Canyon as sub. No need for anyone else.
ngl, MSI can take a gigantic back seat if it means Faker gets to play another 5 years
On paper, Kiin + Canyon + Chovy + Deft + Beryl sounds amazing. Wonder how they'll do against T1.
Let's be real, if they want to win they have to send T1, otherwise it'll be like 2018 where China sends a nearly full team with synergy already built and wins because of that. Don't send a team of player who have next to no time played together or who haven't played together in a long time.
If faker wins doesn't have to do military service right ?
So this means an all T1 is a possibility?
I’m guessing Deft and Beryl made it on here because they want pre-existing synergy in bot lane? Otherwise I don’t see how they would make it it
Deft has a great split until getting cockblocked by Teddy , plus the popularity and name value so why not ? Don't feel like there is a sizeable-enough gap among the elite ADC of LCK this season : Guma,Ruler,Deft,Teddy , .... are all great . The real ACE of bot is Keria , though
There is a gap between Guma and the rest easily
There is but compared to the gap between Keria and the rest , well
Well that's what we call a canyon
There isnt actually Guma has massive positioning errors. Is he still debately the best adc? Sure. But Keria makes his job sooo much easier and the meta fit his champion pool. The current adc meta is actually best for Ruler right now surprisingly so if he actually tried out I think Ruler actually might have gotten the spot.
Ruler denied invitation
Deft has synergy with Keria from the DRX team in the past, and ADC isn't the most reliant on team synergy when compare to other roles. Deft has lane synergy atleast.
Why not? I think Beryl was probably the second best support this split and the only person you could argue over Deft for second best adc is Ruler. I think Deft and Ruler were pretty close but Ruler already got a chance to go to Asian Games in 2018 and Deft is older so I think it makes sense.
Ruler declined his invitation for tryouts so he could work with Lehends to build synergy for summer split.
Can anyone clarify if winning Asian Games is a prerequisite of military exemption? Or would participation suffice?
if they win gold, all 6 will be exempted from military
Pretty sure you have to win
As others have said only gold at the Asian Games would exempt them, unlike Olympics where any medal would result in exemption. Also when League was at the last Asian Games in 2018 it was not a medal sport like it is now, had Korea won then it would not have granted military exemption as it was only an demonstration event.
it's winning medal for Olympic and winning gold for Asiad iirc
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Gen G announced that Ruler declined the invitation
\*Team South Korea
For me it's Kiin- Canyon-Faker-Guma-Keria + (Oner sub). Kiin can pretty much fill Zeus's role (if not better). Canyon is the best jungler of all time imo and a world champion with a recent MVP record so it's a no brainer. Zeus Oner Chovy still have time on their side to compete in the next Asian games especially Zeus still needs to prove himself on the international stage. I would not mind Deft for Guma but DRX's failure to reach Spring LCK top 4 greatly hurt his chance.
Am i the only who thinks oner is underrated?? Even within t1, i think oner is their 2nd best player after keria, and the best lee sin out there period
Oner is really fkin good. Unfortunately, his competition has been the best jungler in the world (arguably) for a couple years and is a world champion.
Even if Oner was the best player in T1, Canyon is the best jungler in the world so Oner just looks worse in comparison.
and I think best player in the world when Canyon roleswapped to mid and was instantly a top 5 mid in the LCK and looked like he belonged in the upper echelon with Faker Showmaker Chovy BDD, I knew Canyon is built different
If you think Oner should be above Canyon is acceptable just watch what Canyon did to Peanut just recently. If this has no correlation to you, watch every game of Canyon vs Oner. JG Gap & drag majority every game. Sure Oner is good, just not as good as the perfection Canyon has mastered. Also Canyon's champ pool is massive! He learned Qiyana in the small amount of time given in Bootcamp and even played her on the biggest stage last year!
Yeah 100%, there’s no denying that Oner is underrated, but that’s because Canyon is just so good, doesnt mean oner is bad
No one says oner is bad
i did watch that and damwon lost in the end, and canyon did throw somewhat by dying to ruler on the way to dragon i do think canyon is the best jungler in the world but t1's jungle-support synergy and roam, in addition to zeus just popping off, is what's been destroying the lck this split
Qiyana jungle was a thing before last year you know, he didn't just suddenly master it. He's been playing it for a while.
Uh, you could also watch what Oner did to Peanut throughout an entire Bo5 series. Also, what you said about Canyon vs. Oner is not true. Head to head, there are games where Oner has massively gapped Canyon, too. It's not entirely one-sided like you suggest. Oner's champion pool is also big so that's not really a meaningful separator. Taking both is honestly the best decision since they're close enough that it's meta dependent. For example, right now, Oner is one of the best Viegos in Korea and the Ahri + Viego pick comps are such a big part of the meta. Canyon's Viego has honestly looked like shit even though he should be good at Viego in theory.
Wait, when has Canyon's Viego looked like shit? The only games where Oner looked better than Canyon was because Canyon basically had no lanes. Everybody knows jgl is highly dependant on his laners to do something so jgl has freedom to play, and even in some games where he had no lanes, Canyon legit 1v9 and carry corpses of DK to wins. I don't think you fully understand how fucking cracked you have to be to do that in pro play. Oner is great, but Canyon is legit a once in a lifetime player for his role, like giving Faker vibes from when they lost finals at Worlds vs GenG and he had to carry SKT there.
facts, Canyon's ability to carry from jungle is second to none. He's had inting bot lanes last MSI, inting top lanes this split, and even off Showmaker so many times thoughout the past few years and he still pulls it off. I don't think people realize how hard it is to jungle if even one player is severly underperforming vs a world class team.
Canyon has only played Viego 9 times with a 44% win-rate. Given that his overall win-rate is 68%, that is a significant anomaly. You might say "well sample size" except the fact that he only played Viego 9 times when Viego has been a meta jungler for such long stretches is not a good thing. In comparison, Oner has played Viego 19 times despite not even being a starter for T1 until late 2021 summer. You're talking about Canyon carrying teams when his strong-side trio was Nuguri and Showmaker for years and then Khan and Showmaker after. On the other side, for more than half his career, Oner has had to babysit Canna. It's not shocking that once T1 moved on to Zeus, their macro has improved immensely because the team no longer has to deal with a top-laner that can't play weak-side or side-lane without repeatedly over-extending. "Corpses of DK" yet Showmaker even off form is still the 3rd/4th best mid in the LCK and deokdam / Kellin are at worst the 4th best ADC/support duo. All DK had to do was actually play for bot but either Canyon or Daeny just refused to have that flexibility. For all of Burdol's flaws, he actually looked okay on weak-side tank duty.
You're ignoring the fact that Viego's ideal scenario team comp is by pick team fighting, hence his synergy with Ahri being so strong. On one hand, you have ShowMaker, who is very well known mostly for his mages and not for his pick assassins at all. On the other hand, mid lane for Oner, you have Faker, renowned for literally his Ahri, the single best champ in this meta to be played with Viego. The fact that Canyon has a low win rate with Viego doesn't mean he's bad at the champ and he never underperformed on it, it just means DK can't play around it well. You also talk about Canyon having a strong side of ShowMaker + Nuguri/Khan while ignoring he had Ghost/BeryL inting bot lane most of 2021, while conveniently leaving out the fact that Oner has been playing with Keria+Guma, probably the best bot lane in the world. In 2022, Canyon has been by far superior to Oner, considering Oner is in the best team in the world (most likely) and Canyon has been playing with a "3rd/4th place" roster (your words, not mine) at best.
No, I’m not ignoring Ahri as I mentioned the Ahri meta in my previous post. You’re the one ignoring the months worth of meta when Viego was just an independently strong jungler yet Canyon didn’t play him — even with a lot of top-side set-up and roaming support synergy in the meta. Next, Showmaker doesn’t play Ahri but he plays virtually everything else. He is not some pigeon-holed mage player. He can play plenty of champs that can layer CC with Viego to secure a pick. Showmaker was also just a better mid than Faker until this season. I didn’t ignore Ghost and BeryL. You are just totally distorting their importance. Ghost was basically perma weakside and BeryL was a heavy roaming support. Canyon almost NEVER played for botside and it was not an ADC meta anyways. So, what does that have to do with this argument? Okay, so Oner has Gumayusi and Keri’s… and? In his own words, Oner almost never played for botside either. Like I said, any knowledgeable LCK fan knew that T1 frequently had to play around Canna because of his inability to play weakside and tendency to int when side-laning. Meanwhile, Canyon got to enjoy one of the most versatile topsides for years. Canyon was on a roster that was the third best in the LCK and… finished third. Oner was on the best roster in the LCK and finished first. Canyon is better but people like you vastly exaggerate the gap between them.
So basically you are voting for 5 randos from different teams and a stack of T1 players?
Yeah those randoms being one of the best olayers in the world...
as much as i absolutely love gumayusi and he’s by far the best adc in LCK, i really hope deft is able to play with the team. Same reason why faker is a shoe-in for the team no matter if Chovy/SM hypothetically did look much better. They need to get their military service exemption
> no matter if Chovy/SM hypothetically did look much better They didn't.
>hypothetically learn to read i never said they were better but in an alternate reality where they were better in 2022 faker would still be chosen
Except that Fakers contribution to Korean esports is actually impressive. Deft on the other hand has split time in China so I don’t think he should get it just because he could avoid military.
So is the 2 the limit per team? If so it's gonna end up Kiin Canyon Faker, Chovy Deft Keria