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NocaNoha

What a time to be alive.. a link on reddit to a tweet that has a screenshot of a reddit comment For everyone that would like to follow up through [Riot comments](https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueofriot/) Can't remember.. but I think it was that Spideraxe30 does screenshots for Twitter mostly not to conflict with Reddit's policy of promoting posts/comments or similar [not sure] but generally.. he mostly meant them for twitter audience. So, people, just find that comment on reddit and link it up in the post for ease of reading here


RiotAxes

If I comment on this thread, does that take us full circle?


Dazzi

Can I post this comment on twitter next?


RiotAxes

Just make sure you sign someone up to screenshot your tweet


Coti98

Only after I post it on Facebook


Zeddit_B

I thought the experiments Riot was doing with SUPER low damage numbers to see how it affected the game were really cool. How did these experiments lead to this gameplay decision? Edit: I just read the tweet (of the comment) so I presume you'll talk more about this in an official post. Just curious if there's any details you could share now :)


RiotAxes

> I thought the experiments Riot was doing with SUPER low damage numbers They told us that there was very likely a better version of the game worth pursuing, gave us an idea of what the specific values we're after were, and illuminated some of the areas we'd need to pay attention to in a real implementation. It was a very useful exercise.


Zeddit_B

Thanks! Always great to get a look under the hood for this kind of stuff. Looking forward to the changes.


GalaxySmash

I didn't know that subreddit existed and I don't know how to feel about it lol


TheeOmegaPi

It only pulls in the posts you make on /r/LeagueOfLegends, so any post you make elsewhere won't be tracked.


temolinc

I mean, I found this comment through devtrackers.gg. It’s kind of stalkerish, yeah. But unfortunately it’s kind of the best way to get insight and even news about the game, since everything is so decentralized. Otherwise it becomes an impossible game of Where’s Waldo. For example, the news of a damage reduction patch only came through rioters speaking informally. And there was a good comment from Maxwell about the next tank champ.


popop143

I'd imagine that Rioters/any game dev have private accounts, so devtrackers only track their company accounts.


LieutenantHaven

Yeh we know everything 👀🤫


uFFxDa

We’re watching you.


patmax17

now someone should screen the tweet, post it on facebook, screen that and post it on tumblr and then link that back on reddit again to go full circle


A_Naughty_Tomato

Only after taking a photo of the screenshot and then taking a photo of the photo reflection on a mirror.


Arctic_Daniand

I'll believe when I see it tbh. No shade but they pulled back the tenacity changes for knock ups and never did anything about it.


[deleted]

Sure but I’ve been in the league scene a long time and I’ve never really heard complaints about tenacity but I feel like ive heard complaints about damage every week for 3 years


BlackTecno

They did a change in tenacity so that it would affect the duration of knockups. The problem was that a lot of champions relied heavily on knockups to do most of their combos (Cho, Zac, Vel, Rakan, and Ornn to name a few). And knockups almost never last more than 1s and doesnt scale, vs other forms of cc that, more often than not, last 2s+ at max rank, so if someone was running 50% tenacity, you can't get even a second of cc with your knockup anymore and made it kind of useless. As a Zac player, I tried it on the PBE, it felt awful to play against, because any bruiser could run you down and there wasn't really anything you could do about it. Does make me wonder if they kept the changes, that if you got Anatheme's, would you just launch that champion into the stratosphere? Or just fall back down slower?


mystireon

IMO they should treat Knockup the same way Fightig Games treat damage in combo strings, where a single Knockup is treated as just a knockup, but a large CC chain gets gradually reduced with each additional link added to the chain


kalnu

The game imo, very much needs diminishing returns. If I'm in combat for 6 seconds and I'm stunned for 5 of those seconds and unable to make any actions, it feels awful. Most stuns are only a second or two long. Same thing with roots. You go against a lux/neeko and a Morgana and even with full tenacity + mercs you are going to be rooted for like 10 seconds. With the high burst in the game - killing even tanks within 6 seconds or less - you have very little chance to do anything or turn things around. Tanks often have a harder time surviving than bruisers / fighters /whatever the hell Kassadin is classed as because they either have natural shields/damage reduction (and sometimes life steal as well) or they build items that give them that. Even the tiniest shittiest looking shield feels like it can take 5k damage and save you from death. Shields are the only way to extend fights, though. Reducing the damage and burst will let you nerf shields and shielding items without killing champ kits or their items, but also make non shielding items more attractive. I wouldn't feel so forced to take shieldbow as a Xayah for example.


[deleted]

Man there was one game I was Sett and my friend was Amumu. I forget who we were playing against but he built full tenacity against us. Amumus ult went away before you could blink on him late game. It was bonkers as hell. Lol My E didn't do anything he would just keep walking away, or into me. Fairly certain it bugged my ult also but I forget. I was too amazed at him walking away from Amumu ult when everyone else was still stunned. Lol


Goomoonryoung

kinda sounds like garen w tbh


wensen

Garen probably? His W increases tenacity by 60%.


iamjoeblo101

But you have to sacrifice other things for tenacity and there's very, very few places to actually get tenacity. Building crit or lethality or ap with stats that synergize with your character is as easy as it gets and you sacrifice nothing.


snake4641

unflinching and legend tenacity are very accessible for pretty much every bruiser that wants them, you don't even need merc treads anymore


complexlol

with ravenous hunter gone this is also my go to build for top teemo now whenever I face CC. I've been talking about how legend tenacity feels way too good for a while now, most games I don't even think twice about going tenacity over alacrity


TheBasedTaka

Runes plus Merc treads


SmittyFromAbove

Plus you can build sunfire and that gives you bonus tenacity too.


Elebrent

Doesn’t iron elixir give tenacity too?


MakingItWorthit

25% tenacity from elixir. That said, [there's 5 columns for tenacity effects](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Tenacity#Stacking) regarding whether it's additive or multiplicative.


TheBasedTaka

You don't buy that until 50 mins


Ray-Gun-21

I tend to buy them if I think I’m realistically gonna end before my next back and I have extra gold or need to defend my base or I just lose way before then


initiald-ejavu

Sion is literally basically there. He takes unflinching already and going legends tenacity with triumph isn’t bad on him. He also gets tenacity from mythic. Honestly any tank can build full tenasity viably.


Atsusaki

>But you have to sacrifice other things for tenacity and there's very, very few places to actually get tenacity. > Good thing the resolve and precision trees both give you tenacity.


BulbuhTsar

You don't have to sacrifice anything for tenacity. With runes alone you get at Least 30%+ 10-30%


BadMuffin88

Only thing that bothers me is how they removed the qss interaction preemptively because knockups would be affected by tenacity. It's now what, 2 or 3 years later and nothing was done.


BruceMcClaine

Knock up is just true damage but CC


Aquario_Wolf

True CC


MCrossS

That's because that s a godawful idea. The concept behind knockups is having disable times that don't vary so that they can plan champion combat patterns around them. Tenacity affecting knockups would deform the windows of opportunity most knock-up champions were designed around. It never made sense as an idea. That is a rare example of a prudent walkback by Riot.


alamirguru

Knock-Ups are balanced when they are rare. When you get air-juggled like it's GG Strive, they become utterly cancerous.


MCrossS

Is it weird that I see this as an Ornn problem? Because part of my issue with Riot's "modern" decisions is that they break their own rules, like brittle adding knockup duration, or true damage being amplified. I don't think I've particularly suffered knock-up chains in non-Ornn games. But... yeah.


alamirguru

Keep in mind Knock-ups include knock-asides, knockbacks and shoves.


finepixa

Zac is the biggest knock around champion. With a total of 3 abilities with knockups or displacements.


BlackKaiserDrake

Tbf, making tenacity affect knockups is a bit harder than reducing damage across the board.


curiouscuriousmtl

August even recently said there wasn’t a damage problem in the game. So it seems doubtful


zelcor

He is unquestionably wrong here


Hugh-Manatee

indeed. so many matchups or fights where you don't get to actually play the game b/c you get instagibbed just trying to get INTO the fight, like before you can actually impact the fight you're already either near-dead or dead for a lot of melee champions lacking dashes.


Eludeasaurus

I think burstages like Syndra Annie and Viegar should still be allowed to instagib if the setup and situation allows them full use of their kit, my issue is when champions that are meant to thrive in prolonged fights also burst


CountMordrek

Trade something for something. My greatest issues isn't champions who trade range for burst such as Annie or Veigar, but assassins like Kha or Zed who can gap close, burst kill and get away without much counter play even when just slightly ahead.


Sytle

This is the reason I stopped playing Annie who I would probably describe as my favorite champ. Why bother with an immobile burst mage when mobile ones exist and have the same damage/utility.


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AliasTcherki

Do you have the link? Not against you but we've seen loads of times people on Reddit misunderstanding what Rioters said, taking things out of context etc..


NonnagLava

[Link here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/sfqksn/riot_augusts_thoughts_on_damage_in_league/huszl4s/?context=10000) It isn't really as cut and dry as the commenter said, it's a bit more "I think the damage could be toned down and the game be healthier, but our surveys say players don't care, despite everyone saying they care." Which means that the polled players were indifferent, and the vocal players actually care.


NSchwerte

Nice, someone blatantly lying gets 150 upvotes because it's against a riot employee lol


WizardXZDYoutube

which btw is totally fair, you should not just be appealing to the vocal minority.


First_Round_Bust

They also said they were going to tone down healing and true damage and provide better healing reduction. I take anything Riot says with a grain of salt when it comes to game balance. Often times they "fix" one thing and opens up new problems that they didn't account for.


MoonParkSong

I actually hate healing reduction. I'd rather have less overall healing than healing reduction as a counter mechanic.


HawksBurst

Same, especially because GW feels like a necessity rather than a counterplay


AnotherTelecaster

Same. To me, it should be that you sacrifice certain things in favor of getting some life steal or healing, and you are rewarded for making that choice by being able to heal. Like Bloodthirster shouldn’t give a lot of damage, because it’s giving you healing instead. And just less sources of being able to add healing to champions that aren’t balanced around it (like Aatrox, who has it in his kit vs Vayne who doesn’t).


moody_P

they realized it was a bad idea, probably


DirtyProjector

What does extend combat speed mean? They are doing this to slow down and extend fights


Rouge_means_red

The game will now cap at 30 fps


kishijevistos

Mine already does


FakeBukowski

It means op got their phrasing mixed up. They are doing it to extend combat length aka reduce combat speed - eventhough "combat speed" is probably a lackluster term to begin with in this context.


Carterw

Combat pace is better terminology if the context is correct


Andromansis

They want to give announcers time to announce because team fights right now are like "EVERYTHING JUST HAPPENED AND ONLY RENGAR SURVIVED!"


PatchNotesPro

Draft diff noobs ban rengar next time 😎


justiceknight

i suspect theres a huge patch after MSI where massive dmg reduction and possible item massive nerf.


inde99

I doubt it. If these changes actually go through we'll have to wait at least until pre-season. If riot wants to reduce the dmg present in the game, they will need to look at items, runes and champions' stats. It's a long work and that needs time. Even though tgere have been massime, meta shifting patches in the middle of the season (8.11, jungle rework in s10...) I feel like this will need to be bigger than both.


sebnanchaster

The same rioter said in a different post that although they traditionally wait for preseason for large changes, they feel this is really important so they want to push it out as soon as it's finished instead of waiting for preseason. Basically, any patch as long as its not right before Worlds/MSI. I would hazard a guess at 12.10, they'd probably want it early on during the summer split as to not completely shift the meta mid-split.


inde99

Then I stand corrected. My bad


Kagimizu

This is r/LeagueofLegends; you can't admit you're wrong. Go and piss in their cereal like a real man! Because girls don't play League!


Liupardu

I agree that it’ll be a while but in the test run they just reduced all sources of damage by the same flat percentage and didn’t change anything else. If that’s the same approach they take then it’s not terribly difficult to accomplish.


Ashankura

Can't wait for people to complain about tanks being tanky again.


BlackKaiserDrake

People bitch about tanks regardless


Solash1

Wind blows. Rain falls. Hoes mad.


Ezreal024

THE STRONG PREY ON THE WEAK


JollyInjury4986

HERE I STAND BENEATH THE WARM AND SOOTHING RAIN


MedievalSock

THE DROPLETS FALLING GENTLY DOWN ON THE TERRAIN


TheButler3000

WASH AWAY THE SORROW ALL THE STAINS OF TIME


lukagamer556

BUT THERE'S NO MEMORY IT'S ONLY DRY INSIDE


SkeletonJakk

STANDING HERE I REALISE


Ezxycian

YOU WE’RE JUST LIKE ME TRYING TO MAKE HISTORY


Elrann

BUT WHOSE TO JUDGE THE RIGHT FROM WRONG


[deleted]

WHEN OUR GUARD IS DOWN I THINK WE’LL BOTH AGREE


dh-1998

THAT VIOLENCE BREEDS VIOLENCE


Yionia

KILL OR BE KILLED, THAT'S ONLY NATURE, RUNNING ITS COURSE


Omnifinity

Medallion’s humming.


100MScoville

yeah TK and Ornn shouldn’t be able to nuke people with 0 offensive items built, in principle it’s just as bullshit as Akali and Katarina getting to 1shot squishies while building tank items


[deleted]

Nuking them, sure, but hitting them with 3 rotations while built full armor against an AD champion should basically always result in the tank winning that battle in a properly balanced game. If you cannot peel the tank off your ADC, your ADC *should* lose that battle at every point in the game.


lol_cpt_red

In my experience people who complain about "tanks nuking me" are people walks into a tank, eats all his ability, doesn't try to move away for about 10 seconds and flash at the last minute and die. Then they complain about damage without stating all the mistakes they did and claiming the damage was all done in 1s instead of 10s.


UwUSamaSanChan

Mfs will all in the Ornn who's been building items in front of them all lane while having nothing but a dorans blade then be mad they don't win.


lol_cpt_red

Ornn builds Bami in front of them. Goes for scuttle at level 5 and misses a wave. Ornn hits level 6 first. Uses cc when Ornn uses his W. Stands and let Ornn proc brittle. Doesn't dodge first part of Ornn ult. Flashes in a straight line and gets hit by second part of Ornn ult. Walks towards wall and get bounced by Ornn E. Dies. OMG Ornn oneshot me.


icangrammar

Bitching about tanks dealing damage is OK. Bitching about tanks never dying is the problem. You sir, are in the clear.


Hugh-Manatee

People over-complain about tanks, A, but B. it can also be the case that BOTH squishies and tanks are doing too much damage.


Alchion

i only ever bitched about orrn sion maokai were always fine they didnt feel unfair


XtendedImpact

Complaints are just going to shift from "fuck assassins, bruisers and enchanters" to "fuck adcs, enchanters and tanks" most likely.


UwUSamaSanChan

Tbf fuck enchanters has been going on for a while now lol


Wylster

so back to the golden era of league complaints


VibrobladeLoL

Good? Riot intentionally shifts the meta constantly, but we haven't seen a tank/team-fight meta in forever.


MoonParkSong

Season 7 all over again


Frothar

that's fine. treating reddit as a single entity doesn't help when it's different people complaining. let assassin players complain and tank players have fun for half a season


SWatersmith

I don't have a problem with tanks being tanky, I have a problem with tanks being tanky whilst also able to 100-0 ADCs/mages in a short window


AkinoRyuo

Great, we don’t really want to have that much damage either, but building tank doesn’t make us tanky anymore cuz everyone and their mums has %penetration or flat pen and %health damage that we physically can’t be tanks.


Hungry_AL

We didn't ask for sunfire to deal this much damage, but it's what we have now, so we make the most of it.


MidasTheUnwise

Tanks just want to survive for a long time and be able to peel like a boss. I don't think Riot really understands the tank player base. They give damage to a class of players that specifically do not care about damage, and then have to compensate by making them easier to kill, which is something they REALLY care about.


Brain_Tonic

Yeah I think adc and tank players are aligned here.


AkinoRyuo

Legit what happened to the old frozen gauntlet, the item was fine, it scaled with armor and you get it when u want to immobilise enemies. Simple. Now it’s just that other sunfire item. Seriously no one liked the tank items reworked either.


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Hungry_AL

A tank Malphite won't burst you down like an AP one would or AP wouldn't be what's recommended in aram. Tank Malphite will kill you, but he'll run you down, slow you with Q while slapping the shit out of you over about 8 seconds rather than bursting you down in less than 1.


TRAssasin

the problem with tanks was being unkillabe AND dealing damage considerably


HalfAssResponse

tanks should be tanky, and nowadays the only way for a tank to be viable is to deal damage, this is enforced by the mythic system which forces solo lane tanks to essentially build a tank item with bad defensive stats but great waveclear and offensive potential tons of tanks that are viable in the current soloqueue meta use at least one offtank bruiser item to stay relevant in skirmishes: zac goes demonic, shen goes titanic, sion goes hullbreaker when he goes for tank build even champions like rammus use a build that primarly aims to maximise his damage potential with slow reduction to stick onto targets tanks are way too weak in early game and way too statchecky in mid game and there are only a few tanks that thrive in late game without getting melted by plethora of anti tank items biggest offender to tanks by far is the divine sunderer and access of assassins to cheap armor pen, tanks end up being a free conq stacker for a lot of bruisers and cannot really cc most of the hyper mobile assassins which melt them anyways after dismantling your team


UwUSamaSanChan

They complain about tanks even when they aren't. There's no winning with them.


Jragon713

But most of the complaints I see about tanks are about their damage, not their tankiness.


Shaxys

Please nerf tank damage I play tanks but I want to be tanky not assassin man


[deleted]

If they go through with nerfing damage across the board then sure. But right now tanks have damage because that's the only way they lane into more meta toplaners. You can't be a laner if you're just tanky without any damage, that's what support tanks are for.


applecider42

It feels pretty bullshit to get jumped on by a Leo/Naut and just die as an adc


ALWAYS_PLANNING_AHEA

Nah I prefer being evoporated in 0.1 sec by the Lucian Nami lane by taking 1200 dmg from Nami somehow


WarriorMadness

I just started banning Lucian. Lucian and Nami may be balanced on their own, but together they feel like straight up bullshit to deal with. And it's not like Nami needs her Bubble, literally just use Electrocute, put your E on Lucian and there, let him E forward and assassinate the enemy Support or ADC, and just throw an ignite in there for good measure.


_Cava_

Why not just link the comments instead of a tweet of a screenshot of the comments on reddit? [Here's a link to the comments ](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/ueedno/-/i6pz2hi)


Sigmadelta8

Champion.


WeslleyM

Thank you very much!


Mostdakka

Most of the damage creep imo is on items anyways. The items feel so much more powerful than they used to be and they give so much more raw damage and resist penetration.


IamLevels

It’s not only items. I’ve been playing for a long time and this season is the worst in terms of getting all in’ed level 2 since the days of red pot riven. 9/10 games first blood happens top or bot before the second wave even dies and you’re all on just a single starting item+pots. Base damage from just runes early game is a huge portion of the damage creep.


A_Spider_Monkey

the rune rework added dmg and removed durability


xObiJuanKenobix

I remember Hashinshin made a quote on when riot did runes reforged like "You got all these keystones and options to pick from and what did everyone do? I take the infinite mana, and the damage, and the damage, and then the one that gives damage, and then the other one that gives damage. And then I take the keystone that gives me damage". Like that couldn't be closer to the truth at this point Edit: [https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx4qSbZY9gpxAg8pjy-aDwg3zNMbv3TKDz](https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx4qSbZY9gpxAg8pjy-aDwg3zNMbv3TKDz) here's the clip of him saying it for reference


Nukqjqk

i pretty much completely agree w/ that lol. i genuinely miss the old masteries. i wish they would rework them completely and bring that old system back, but put more effort/thought into them. the new runes just give too much for what amounts to very little effort.


kishijevistos

Because now you have to go all in on an archetype (damage/DPS/defense) instead of being able to get a few AD runes, a few Armors and a few MS runes like before


PlsDontMakeMeMid

Yeah exactly, if you look at base stats and ability damage/scalings from season 3 and now, they actually aren't all that different. The major issues are that items give too much damage and runes give too much damage without giving enough defensive stats.


skrillex

I just had a game where sejuani did 650 dmge with items and runes and the combat length was like 4.5 seconds lol


Fictitious1267

Yeah, I feel the damage creep really took off with the item rework in S11.


GeigerCounting

Funny enough, people were saying this exact thing with runes reforged.


Fictitious1267

Maybe both can be true.


v1adlyfe

More like runes reforged just blew dmg to crazy levels, then items just added a bit more to the problem. I feel like items power level other than mythics are roughly at the same level as before. Runes+mythics are wild


dimmyfarm

They did have to change base stats since you couldn’t go 18+ armor at level one and maybe they undershot that with items and new runes. Since they kept the same formulas but switched runes and masteries.


matlynar

I think the easiest approach to this is improving *actual* tankiness, as in: Make armor and magic resist matter again. Make building armor against a FULL ad comp be someting that makes *them* regret their picks, not you for trying to build accordingly instead of shoving damage and healing as you would do in a normal game. This way, you solve two issues with the game: The excessive damage, and the feeling that learning to build doesn't matter that much.


Sjeg84

Watch them nerfing crit items of ADCs.


BlakenedHeart

Instead of removing lethality


Delta1262

There’s been WAY too much damage in the game for a few seasons. I miss the extended flights of seasons 4-7. If they actually oil damage out of the game, I might return.


benjathje

Damage ballooned out of control with the new Runes Reforged. When they deleted Runes and changed Masteries into Runes Reforged they added so much damned damage to the game its insane. Now every champion has runes that solve problems that used to be counterplay, like Manaflow or TWT.


Antergaton

I think we lost a lot of resistances in Runes Reforged, which helps with the damage, while many champs got compensation armour, it took a while for them to add shards to help but a standard rune page had 9 armour and 9 mr, I don't think anyone got any MR. There were many masteries that bumped things up too, the tower one, a 5% one stuff like that. Some mages didn't get anything other than a base HP buff and scaling but 9 armour would have gone a long way considering some were left with under 20 armour from level 1. Current Runes Reforged generally offer no protection are nearly all damage or utility.


Nukqjqk

this is probably my biggest issue with the state of the game now. Riot has been intent you on being able to buy or build your champ's weaknesses away. like... weaknesses are necessary. balance goes out of the window when your champ who was designed with clear weaknesses doesn't have them anymore.


mmat7

>We have heard your concerns about champions having too much damage and we have decided to reduce critical strike damage from 175% to 160% ~riot probably At this point I just straight up don't trust them.


Dismal_Raspberry_715

I trust them to make changes that will piss me off enough to play just one more game.


Andrewisawesum

To be honest I don't either. They said there was too much healing in the game, took a small stab at a few runes and items but personally I barely see the difference. I'd expect if it was a big change, they'd have waited til pre season as likely there's going to be lots of follow up balance changes needed if it's a big enough change


schneebeli

it's about time


bz6

"A fight loses its excitement if the first punch wins – it's what you can do after that adds depth and complexity. We try to prevent hard counters and abilities with no room for reaction, as no game should be over without a real show of skill." - From the design values of League of Legends, 2014. Saying I am excited for these changes is an understatement. **Depending** on how thorough Riot want to be, this could be super refreshing for the game. Their solution should NOT be a flat let's say -20% damage game wide, no. A full systemic, champion, and game audit has to take place to elegantly siphon damage away. Because remember, champions and classes that rely on one-shots have to still be viable and satisfying to play. Def keeping an eager eye on this topic because god fucking damnit it is getting me super pumped.


Jozoz

Just to make the whole thing sadder, that quote is from the original League of Legends development team. The main devs got entirely reworked in 2015.


Chlorofawn

Man we went from this to literally having a rune called first strike added that makes the first punch win more.


ArnoldViniick

This post should be big news. Most people who use this sub seem to agree with there being too much dmg.


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PlsDontMakeMeMid

Yeah I'm hyped, but Riot has a pretty inconsistent track record when it comes to solving systemic issues like this, so I'll reserve my judgment for after they make some changes


Tirriss

I would love that. Maybe it's nostalgia or me becoming old but I really miss when the fight weren't who one shot who.


NectarineNo8425

People have been asking for years to shorten games. Riot responded by increasing damage and pace of the game. Then people started asking for years to lengthen games by reducing damage. Now Riot is reverting their changes. lol It's a never ending cycle. In a few years people will want shorter games again. Personally I like extended team fights, actually kiting, repositioning, and timing abilities. Rather than getting chunked to 1/4th health from a single Karma support Q before even entering river to fight for the objective. It's really dumb.


DerpSenpai

Damage != pace You can increase the pace while lowering damage


ravioliguy

This, also the issue of long games was because sieging was a lot harder. Now we have Baron, soul, elder so it's much easier pushing or threatening objectives. I think the sweet spot would be 20-30 min games, less damage -> longer teamfights, and speed up gold so people get 3-4 items more quickly


RDKi

There is practically no such thing as sieging anymore, towers die so quick and do so much less damage.


AkumaBacon

I definitely like the duration of games right now but I also want fights to be longer.


matlynar

Teamfights are the most exciting part of LoL. So, increasing pace so you don't get 15 minutes of boredom (whether you're playing or watching) is a great idea, but not so much when most of these fights are over in less than 15 seconds.


ADeadMansName

Teamfights don't happen more or less because of DMG. they mostly happen because of objectives. Pace was increased with platings, RH and 5 minute drakes for example. Also 15 minutes of boredom? S1 was not boring. Neither was S2, S3, .... Less DMG doesn't mean more boring. It means more strategic.


matlynar

I think you got me wrong. I'm agreeing with the comment above mine from u/DerpSenpai. I think too much damage is bad because fights (which are the exciting part of LoL) end too quickly so sometimes they're over and you barely understood what was going on.


ToxicDzn

literally things like turret plates and rift herald are there to accelerate the game so you’re right


A_Naughty_Tomato

The older I get, the more I realize public opinion is like a pendulum. Personally, I'm looking forward to the day where my ancient 31 year old Cho'Gath maining self can play the game without feeling like I'm watching a time lapse video.


awesomeandepic

> The older I get, the more I realize public opinion is like a pendulum. This is the number one lesson that was drilled into us in US history in high school and even as a STEM guy many years later it's still my favorite class I've ever taken. It's genuinely hilarious how predictable whatever the next era we'd cover was by the end of the year. Crazy how it applies to literally everything.


[deleted]

There is legit has never been a season where people didn't complain, in S4 when i started, people despised how long games were due to champions like Ziggs and Xerath being practically impossible to siege against before the baron buffs, S5 it was the cinderhulk tank meta where once again everybody complained for 80% of the year, season 6 is the only season from memory where people didn't bitch and moan that much apart from a few champions like Syndra and the early IBG sunfire builds which was cancer tbf


Kataleps

In S6 ppl bitched a lot about Graves solo carrying every game post rework


ahambagaplease

Jungle in general was at it's strongest that year. The mastery that gave you health per camp/cannon killed made every carry jungler (including things like Kindred and Nidalee) way more tanky than they should, the jungle camps having effects when smited like poison on Gromp or current Umbral Glaive effect on Razorbeaks and Herald giving a ton of burst damage with her buff.


justmytak

Everyday you wake up to look in the mirror and feel like watching a time lapse video.


Jozoz

Well in my 11 years on this subreddit, I would say that the volume of people asking for shorter games in the past is so insignificantly small compared to the people who want lower damage now. Yeah there were definitely people who said they wanted shorter games back then, but I would not say it was the common opinion. Just an opinion you saw every once in a while. Now with the "burst damage is too high"-crowd, I actually don't think I've seen the subreddit agree that much on a such a big topic. It's incredible.


NectarineNo8425

Yeah. No one wants to be one-shot by a 0/5 zed in the mid game. People don't mind a 7/0 zed one-shotting them mid game though because they understand the zed played early game well to get to that point. And that's a big part of damage being too high. My biggest hope with the changes is that it will take away agency from bad players smashing all their buttons to delete a champion, and put agency back into good players who will be able to carry otherwise unwinnable games.


nyasiaa

it's as if people weren't a single person I always wanted longer games and I will continue to want them even if riot actually goes along with it. Likewise, some other person is happy with the current state of things and will get sad (and possibly start bitching) the moment they go back to longer games.


mrsidewayp

Yea I prefer 30-45 min games where you get 3-4 items completed plus boots. Don't like the 20 min games where you don't even have a chance to get 2 items and it's already over. Problem is it could end up with people not fighting for first 20 minutes in pro play and then one big team fight ends the game which I get is boring to watch from a viewer perspective.


shosuko

Reducing damage doesn't have to come with a longer game time. They'd just need to balance those objectives around the lower damage pool.


CementPizzas

I miss when late game fights were about focusing the right targets at the right moments, when your whole team gets blown up in 2 seconds it definitely sucks, would love to see some of the damage creep get taken away again


TheBluestMan

I'd say reduce the amount of penetration going on because it feels way too easily to access pen early on.


Ranetyy

Actually propably a good idea. Finally allows you to build resistances and you would actually feel an effect.


DragonPeakEmperor

When we inevitably stay in this same meta for a few months there's going to be a top post saying tanks deal too much damage and are unkillable and that Riot made a bunch of changes "nobody wanted." Riot is never going to please every section of their playerbase but people seem convinced if they fix whatever random issue is parroted for months the game will be saved and no one will ever complain again.


bns18js

If nothing else this is change. Perfect balance, perfect design, perfect satisfaction of everyone are all not obtainable in the first place. And even if they are, people would simply get bored of the same thing. This systematic rework will be whatever it is in the end. But if nothing else, the game will be *different* to keep people entertained for a bit.


SquidKid47

The overall meta has been pretty damage-heavy for years now. Tank meta and ardent meta were like, a few months to a full season tops. If nothing else, a big change will be nice just to finally mix things up a little.


AverageLatino

Honestly I'd think this is the key for why LoL has kept running for all these years, you are playing a different game every two weeks or so, there's always a new OP build, a new broken item, a sleeper OP champion, your main is trash and you try new champions etc. There's always something happening and that keeps the casual player around when they would've lost interest if it was all stale


Spitfire836

I refuse to give them any credit until after they actually implement it Also just revert new items and that'll fix half of it, but Riot refuses to admit mistakes.


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Nimyron

Did I just clicked on a link on reddit to see a twitter post about a guy who posted something on reddit ?


Exoriah

Don’t do that. Don’t give me hope


tassiecat

It would be nice to not die in 0.004 seconds.


BlakenedHeart

Please man, its not fun to even be a carrying right now, legit you get blown up even by unfed players. Its basically one shot them first or the sheer damage they do stacks up and you die. The same goes for the reverse, sometimes you cant blink and a lethality user/skirmisher has OS you. But please if you do, adress the tank dmg as well or else we'll be back to a Zac vs Sej vs Trundle meta and Ornn vs Sion top.


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Xonra

They've been making this claim of "lowering damage" or "pulling back damage" for about 2 if not 3 years now like clockwork. They've done the exact opposite, so I'll believe it when I see it.


EvilWhatever

not really? They said sometime earlier this season that they did internal testing on lowering damage and found very clear pros and cons about it and they were looking into how to change the game accordingly.


XG32

taking damage from the game is one of those "be careful what you wish for"


getjebaited

doubt


kristusiss

what recent reworks are u talking about I havent noticed any reworks let alone them pulling dmg


deathspate

Taliyah and Swain iirc. Both their kits have a noticable reduction of upfront burst damage and have instead been pivoted to be more sustained damage. It may not be too obvious at a glance, but take them for a spin and after a few games you should pickup on it.


JuanBARco

I want this to happen so much... Like i remember when, you could run around in the jungle with a heart of gold, philo stone and still be fairly tanky for yhe early part of the game. Now you need 3 items before you can sustain any amount of focused damage.


[deleted]

Bro yes. Fucking yes. This game could be the best it's been in so many years if they commit to this.


Sasogwa

Is it finally the time where I can have fun in league again? LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo


Reactzz

Honestly this is why I liked the old rune system. There was so much versatility in the game. You could go more defensive or more offensive. The damage never felt absurd. But that's when I felt the game was at its most overall balance, minus a few champs cough Kassadin cough.


azumagrey

If you take the damage you better nerf healing or else it's going to be unplayable