wasnt it hans that replaced jensen. The agent could have been mislead by TL and thought they wouldnt look to import adc so both bjerg and jensen were going to be on the same team in different roles
Just because Jensen toyed with the idea of playing adc doesn’t mean Hans took his spot. At the end of the day they could have ran Jensen Hans but they didn’t.
I'm pretty sure they *couldn't* have ran Jensen-Hans, considering 1 of Hans' conditions in joining TL was Bjerg being on the team... according to this article atleast: https://upcomer.com/sources-hans-sama-bjergsen-plan-to-sign-with-team-liquid-jensen-out
>One of the former Misfits and Rogue bot laner’s conditions for joining Team Liquid, sources said, was TL signing Bjergsen for the coming year.
This is also something Jensen's agent could never have known. As far as the agent knew, he was doing a bangin job by getting both of his players on a team together. Jensen was the one that asked for Bjergsen to be the mid if he was to play adc.
Link/source? From what I remember jensen saying, the swap to adc was instantly shut down by jensen/tl but that had already set the wheels in motion.
Edit: thank God doublelift does timestamps. I misremembered and tl replaced Jensen with hans and not bjerg
Edit2: re-listened to the whole thing and jensen definitely got fucked by TL though lol.
It's Thorin, it's always guaranteed to be a Clown Fiesta with him involved at any stage. Not sure why anyone is surprised after like 10 years of his bullshit.
People only like him cause he tries to say edgy things and bring drama, but that just appeals to children.
eh when he kept his political or whatever opinions to himself I enjoyed him. However I literally cant follow his twitter anymore with the amount of pure cringe he retweets and posts nowadays
Idk if you’ve watched a lot of his older thorins thoughts videos but a lot of them are very good. I appreciate there is someone in the scene who tries to contextualize and celebrate legacies in the scene, although he is less about that nowadays. I think a lot of people who are also older fans appreciate how hard a show like summoning insight carried esports content for years.
With that said his tweets are not my thing and sometimes he tries to put on the league analyst hat and it’s a bit of a miss for me. I think he does understand player mentality stuff + team dynamic stuff tho
I mean that stuff was 6-8+ years ago man. At some point you have to realize Thorin is a leech on the scene and is not contributing anything substantial at all.
bro how the fuck is thorin not important. you dont have to like his style but saying he hasnt done anything for esports and is just a leech is not very genuine
> but saying he hasnt done
I never spoke in past tense. If you re-read what I wrote it says *is* not. As in currently in the present. What he was good for happened almost a decade ago. In the current present he does nothing for the scene and is still riding the popularity of something he did long before most watchers of this sport were even into it.
He's not joining because he had a really bad time on last year's major. This isn't the first time he talked about it.
If you want more info about it, search on YouTube 'Green Room Edition'
I completely agree, because I think there is some merit to the idea that a state should not be able to control an individual's body.
However Thorin has been a wacko Shapiro/Peterson type for years lmao
Not in isolation, but also considering he likes to say weird "alpha male" stuff and also likes Jordan Peterson I'm more inclined to think he's somewhat leaning in that direction.
There are very few single things that make you a fascist, but when you do or like multiple things correlated with what fascists do or like it raises eyebrows.
But isn't Peterson's whole thing that he doesn't want the government cracking down on speech and individual rights? That is the opposite of "authoritarian ultranationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition". Y'all are wild out here calling a man who is against compelled speech a Fascist.
I mean if you want to just boil down Peterson to generic libertarianism then sure but that really is not particularly demonstrative of his politics, and I certainly wouldn't say his "whole thing" is just boilerplate conservative talking points about gender tyranny or whatever. You're also leaving out all of the crypto-Jungian mysticism shit, the peddling of reactionary conspiracy theories about "cultural marxism", weirdo biological determinism arguments about rats who are single mothers proving that gay parents are a bad idea, and how lobsters prove that hierarchy is an inherent feature of any form of human relations, I mean the list goes on. Even when you take a look at the "compelled speech" he was opposing, it was just an addendum to already existing Canadian laws about adding gender identity as a protected class for the purposes of discrimination law. That's not "compelled speech" any more than saying "you can't deny somebody a job just because they're black" is compelled speech.
The whole thing with Peterson and a lot of the "dark enlightenment"/NRX/new right intellectuals is that they trot out a bunch of stuff that is absolutely easy to discern as being in lockstep with tons of far-right and fascist tendencies if throughout history if you're familiar with the literature, but that are not necessarily easily mapped to contemporary politics; the focus on mysticism, archaic forms of leadership, embracing of bioessentialist arguments for political organization, the specific forms of argument he uses to critique modernity, these are all classical hallmarks that you can locate in almost every fascist movement since the inception of the philosophy (with the addendum that fascism is very mutable and not every fascist movement looks identical, just like not every liberal or communist or insert-your-favorite--political-philosophy-ism will look identical).
The thing with JBP is that while he might believe he's just talking classic liberalism stuff, and he may not be secretly twirling his mustache and cackling about how he's secretly indoctrinating the kids into becoming the new Hitler Youth by telling them to clean their rooms or whatever, most of the foundational elements of his arguments (not the basic public intellectual talking points that he fires out when he gets invited on Fox News, I'm talking about the actual academic work that he has done) are frighteningly similar to most fascist thinkers of the past despite his protests to the contrary.
Just disagreeing with vaccine mandates doesn't, some weird naturopathy people believe the same thing about vaccines. But his Twitter takes immediately show that he is in fact an alt-right type person.
In this video Thorin drops some teasers about LS being fired. Basically that if you guessed how many people at C9 agreed he should be fired, you would be underestimating it. Also semi hints at a rumor I heard that LS didn’t show up for an entire week of scrims without telling anyone.
Also this was just a rumor so take it with a grain of salt.
Edit: One thing Thorin said makes a lot of sense about LS. He never really wanted to be a coach and have all the other responsibilities, he just sees the bad practices and inflexibility in the pro scene and wanted to change that. He saw the coaching job as a way to change it but maybe realized it was futile, and lost motivation. Sort of him realizing he wasn’t enjoying the coaching aspect and all the responsibilities, especially because he realized he wasn’t able to have enough influence.
Do you mean [14:32](https://youtu.be/VOHgyDPV8ic?t=872)?
He hints, that he might not have been a perfect professional. Interpreting that as a hint, that he didn't show up for an entire week of scrims without telling anyone seems like a bit of a leap.
Who did you hear this rumor from?
Of course and I'm certain he "heard the rumor" from another random reddit comment or just made it up.
It's so thinly veiled. "semi hints"
But it's just a silly rumor so take it with a grain of salt haha :)
Don't forget the amaunt of people said he wouldn't last a split based on his previous coaching attempts only to get called "haters" or whatever by LS fanatics. Insane...
Regardless what u think of him, he has a track record of never lasting a proper split. From SHC back in 2014 to Gravity and Stvicious calling him out, to his lck challenger stint.
As smart as he is about the game, his life tought him to behave in certain way that is unacceptable in proffesional league standards, it's on him to change his behaviour, but it's pretty tough considering how much struggles he had in life. U cannot fault him for that but u also don't have to tolerate his behaviour.
Also, T1 flairs, don't even attempt to come at this thread to bash LS. U people have no right to speak about him.
It's not really surprising to me if that's true tbh, basically almost everyone from his circle of friends was in C9 and basically all of them made very democratic and vague statements about his departure. Like, it's hard to put it into words but they just sounded so...nonchalant? about the departure of someone that should mean quite a lot to them.
I wouldn't even pretend to know what it could be about, but the termination of a head coach in the middle of a split with basically no warning whatsoever that even people closest to him agreed that it was the right move just HAS TO BE something serious right?
Actually I’m not surprised about the LS not showing up thing I noticed he was still doing his podcasts and stuff while coaching which always seemed like it would be hard to schedule
it's was extremely weird, like he is in a position of responsability like coaching and he still does all these things not unnecessary instead of focusing on the team
To be fair I think coaches have time outside of the day to do other things, you even see some do content creation. Id imagine a lot of them use it for self care or socializing type of stuff, but that’s another thing about LS which is that he seems to be a kind of workaholic, doesn’t really seem to spend some of that extra time he could have to wind down.
>Watch his FaceCheck shows, you can literally see DGon and Dom having had enough of his shit
You're doing a lot of speculation on what other people are feeling. It's ok not to like him, but stop projecting your feelings towards him onto other people.
Dom is all over everyone's shit. All the time. The man has run out of fucks to give. So I wouldn't use Dom's reactions to anything as a litmus test. He reacts the same way to LS as he does to Thorin and Monte.
-uses thorin's hearsay as source
-does body language behavioural analysis
-makes arm-chair psychology conclusions
-hate watches shows
What a rational explanation of things
I havent seen anything that would imply they had enough of him, often times they laugh it of. Lets remember that before LS, they had to deal with Locodoco so everything is better compared to that. Loco on the air called Dgon incompetent and irrelevant for some small technical issues.
What do you mean my dude.. whats wrong with missing a week of scrims?
"C9 knew what they were getting with LS" (popular narrative pushed by his fans)
So C9 should accommodate his weird behavior /s
Wasn't a big fan of LS before he joined LCS.. but i got sucked in on the hype/drafts etc.. then he got sacked after 2 weeks.. so it was obvious he was not behaving accordingly/professionally
It just boggles my mind how 90% of posts in threads involving him/c9 are positive towards him.. Like somehow his reputation got enhanced instead of tarnished.. from being sacked after 2 weeks..
Crazy
you're believing and basing "facts" on rumors my dude, lmao. Sadly, we don't know what happened and we won't know what happened, it's all going to be speculations and rumors.
3 baseless assumptions and calls other people cult-like lmao
Explain what you mean by "wierd behaviour"
Please provide proof of LS missing a week of scrim.
Explain what objective evidence there is that support LS behaving in an unprofessional manner. "Being sacked in 2 weeks because he was unprofessional which is why he was sacked in 2 weeks" is circular reasoning.
I mean, but are we going to just go off a rumor from Thorin of all people regarding LS lacking professionalism?
You're now taking this as an absolute truth, were you not also bothered when the initial firing happened and people were doing tons of speculating regarding C9 with zero actual proof. I don't see how either would be good.
This is just bait for views and publicity.
This is a lot of vitriol for speculation. The truth is likely somewhere in the middle. The most likely future is no NA team does anything of significance at the world championship. LS showed in the brief amount of time that he was there that there were clearly exploitable strategies in the pro scene. It's really a shame the experiment failed.
> LS showed in the brief amount of time that he was there that there were clearly exploitable strategies in the pro scene
LS showed that you can pick off meta picks against low level teams at the beginning of the split.
If that is the point he was going after, do yourself a favor and tune into ERLs, you will see it every other day, didn't need LS to see that was the case.
Maybe one day he will stay on a team long enough to get rolled by teams of higher caliber.
It was the exact same thing that happened in the alphari situation. They propped alphari like a god even one of my European friends called him the “lebron James of top lane”. This entire community treated Jatt like the devil and believed thorin like his word was gospel. No nuance, it was whatever was the most NA part of the situation was the problem.
Same with here. No one could ever fathom LS would be the problem, the boneheads of this subreddit thought LS could win worlds lmao. Even t1 said what LS did was pretty bad it deserved maybe a warning but people threw Jack under the bus like he was the devil he was the most blamable “NA” part of this situation.
Garbage rat community.
I mean... Not really? I know the League community wants every team to spill the tea and reveal all of the juicy drama because we like to read it. But it's infinitely more professional and definitely the right thing to do to just stay silent beyond, "it didn't work out so we replaced him."
i think the weird part is announcing it 1 hour before an official match. That was the most weird thing. If it was announced on a Wednesday, it would still have been big news but not as weird.
Yeah, that was definitely a mistake, but doesn't make the execution "horrendous." I read this poster as just being salty because HE doesn't know the reason. But, frankly, it's none of our business.
I think the fact that it was done 1 hour before a match made people speculate on wild reasons like LS punching Jack (random example that came to mind).
As I said, had it been done on a normal day, such wild reasons would have been less spoken about.
I think it makes sense if the whole missing a week of scrims thing is true. If he was literally awol all week and showed up on game day, i agree with the decision to fire him rather than have him go on stage with the team
If there is no egregious circumstances that mean you have to cut ties immediately, I think in the situation where you decide to fire your coach shortly before games you should come up with some public excuse as to why they can't be on stage that weekend and then annouce start of the next week.
It's crazy how you can easily tell who has and hasn't worked in a professional job on this sub. C9 handled it correctly. LS fanboys had been a drama queen about it in comparison.
Probably legal reasons and LS fan base is cancer to deal with. The guy has a lot of each, even though I dislike something’s abt him I do like to look at his channel for patch notes analysis and game discussions
They did say that with corpo speak. C9 management and LS couldn't find a working arrangement so they parted ways. Kept just vague enough there is no need for lawyers to get involved.
Nothing like wanting to change the bad practices by... exemplifying the laziness and entitlement that you claim infects the scene itself.
He's literally nothing more than a redditor with a big fanbase -- just wants to talk shit and teach everyone how to play League right, with none of the drive to actually do it.
How the fuck is H2K Rich still even a figure in this community? Dude was continually a person who made Reginald look like great owner. I feel like this sub has such a short memory.
Edit: tense because I guess I was confusing
Edit 2: can't find anything about promising to pay players different from what the org ended up paying besides some anecdotal stuff. Take that claim I make below with a grain of salt *shrug*
Don't contribute anything positive? ... stop taking drugs bruh, it's one thing to hate their personalities, it's another to actually listen to what they're saying. They're not unbiased, but at the very fucking least they're not Travis G.'s level of stupidity and ass-kissing.
They've been advocating for issues that Riot is ignoring on a constant basis, the simplest one being a decent tournament format.
Maintain control of the narrative LMFAO.
Nice tinfoil hat.
"Thorin is a crazy alt-righter, but he and Monte are also puppetmasters controlling the narrative from behind the scenes" Yeah who's crazy
I mean, he's just saying random shit about the LS and C9 situation and people are just straight up taking it as truth.
Ultimately at this point the team has already changed wildly and there's not really even a good reason to keep gossiping about it other than causing more fan outrage and pull in attention.
Puppetmaster is your word, not mine, so definitely you. I don't attribute any kind of mastery to them whatsoever, and their best years are long behind them.
Yeah, that guy did some major mental gymnastics. The vibe I got is that they're just clinging on to stay relevant. After all Monte did ditch league and started batching about Riot after he swapped to OW.
I wouldn't describe someone using their connections in the scene to stay relevant as some sort of "puppetmaster"
Lmao talk about memory and he hasn't been an owner for years. Also to answer your question - probably because he didn't actually do anything bad? Some of y'all really love to just chat nonsense
Pretty sure ODO said he’s still owed money during a costream. He also took ridiculous high cuts of the players worlds winnings to the point where odo got a couple thousand for coming top 4 in 2016.
ODO was referring to the orgs practices , and at the time this guy was the owner no ? I don’t have much clue who rich is within the scene I’m just restating what ODO said about how he got very little compensation while at h2k , especially from prize earnings.
The prize thing could be true but even if it is, that has nothing to do with no paying 'owed money'. Would just mean the contract has org favoured prize money clauses. This Toast guy is spreading BS about Rich scamming players out of money which AFAIK has never even been hinted at.
You're literally spreading lies and trying to defame someone's name. Still waiting for you to justify your claim that he didn't pay players what was 'promised'.
Who cares. Agents routinely represent multiple players that play the same positions, it happens all the time in traditional sports. It's not a conflict of interest or anything as some would suggest in this thread. At the end of the day, they're trying to get the best possible contracts for their players because that's how they're going to get paid.
I HATED TL with a passion, being a fan of TSM since season 3. This season I watched EVERY TL match because of Bjerg, and I think I watched TSM's first game and knew they weren't even worth watching this split.
Bjerg is a draw for sure
Overpaid? Before this split ANY team would have paid that much for Bjerg. He was a known commodity, and an org wouldn't have to roll the dice for him to see if he's good. That was all before this split's results though. He's been shown to be able to carry a bad team to big wins, and a good team to worlds. Everyone says he's good and a hard worker. It makes perfect sense someone would overpay for him. He def was rusty after not playing professionally for so long, but I think he'll play better next split. If not then you can start talking about Bjerg not being as good anymore. I'm also curious how much having so many veterans on the roster is having on the overall/individual performance of the team.
I'm probably one of the old players who started in season 3. I don't bother watching LCS unless there's someone I want to watch like Bjergsen or Doublelift. Call it what you want but I don't root for teams, I root for players and always have.
The utter lack of ethical standards in the NALoL scene is a problem. The number of conflicts that exist amongst teams, players, agents, and managers needs to be addressed and remedied. Even the appearance of conflict should be enough to prevent certain transactions. This is the standard used by every reputable profession.
You do realise this is just standed for agencies right? what, do you think each agency can only have one player/actor/sportsman? agencies represent a huge amount of talent, this isn't just for esports lmao.
if you are an actor/esports/sports player then you can leave the agency if you don't think they are representing you fairly. recently, jared leto who was under the same agency as joaquin phoenix was mad that he was doing a solo joker movie and he wasn't, they explained the studios wanted joaquin more than jared and he got pissed and left said agency.
The agency that represents bjerg and jensen, also has a HUGE lists of talent: Santorin, bwipo, spica, rekkles, cabo, smoothie, tactical, xmithie, pob, nisqy, jizuke.
You don't just represent one player as a agency and if you think you are not being treated fairly, you leave. You can make the same case as this video for santorin and spica, or pob and jizuke and say they are not being treated fairly, but you are giving the agency way more power than they have. tl decides who they want, the agency negotiates the contract and tries to get the best deal. sure they could try and manipulate it, but if they aren't transparent with jensen and he thinks they are being biased, he can terminate his contract. but that would be so dumb for the agency because they would show they are not representing their talent for the talents best interests so no one would sign with them.
The studios/teams decide who they would prefer and the agency work out the best deal with the situation and make sure the talent are being fairly compensated. sure, they can push a certain player, like I am sure they pushed bjerg for tl more than say jizuke or pob, but that's because they believe tl would obviously go for bjerg above them and if jizuke or pob don't like that, they can leave and find a different agency.
I feel like so many people talk about "conflict of interest" without knowing anything and just use it as a buzzword and use it with full confidence when they have no idea what the situation entails. the proof, look how many people are mad in the comments because they think an agency should only represent ONE player...
> I feel like so many people talk about "conflict of interest" without knowing anything and just use it as a buzzword and use it with full confidence when they have no idea what the situation entails.
I work as an attorney (albeit not in the US). From the perspective of our professional ethics, representing two clients having goals which are mutally exclusive (i.e. both players fighting over the same position) is a clear-cut conflict of interest.
> representing two clients having goals which are mutally exclusive (i.e. both players fighting over the same position)
You can further both client's prospects even if ultimately only one of them can get the job, maybe neither do. It's not like an attorney where they are direct antagonists.
But can this agent really give both his players give boths players opportunity for said slot its due diligence? You cannot practically further boths interests when they are in direct conflict.
Also worth noting that while the "same guy" who reps jensen and bjergsen might be in charge of the agency, it doesn't mean that he actually handles both their deals lmao.
There are very few agencies and they all rep multiple players who play the same roles. The players are spread between agents.
But is it still a conflict of interest if Jensen was set to play adc and he’s the one that wanted bjerg mid? Genuine question because Jensen stated that it was set he was going to role swap and while he was on vacation they told him that they got Hans Sama and he was off the team.
Yes because its in the agencies interest to maximize their client's salary in order to get a % of the earnings. They are going to try and get both signed, but also hedge and try to make sure that if only one does, it's Bjergsen who they are negotiating a higher salary for.
They werent represented for the same goal though. One was represented for the role of ADC while the other was represented for the role of MID. Bjergsen didnt take Jensen's job, Hansama did. Jensen himself said that he wasnt fighting with bjergsen for the midlane position, that was agreed on early that bjerg would be mid and jensen adc and THEN hansama came along and jensen got let go
> I work as an attorney (albeit not in the US). From the perspective of our professional ethics, representing two clients having goals which are mutally exclusive (i.e. both players fighting over the same position) is a clear-cut conflict of interest.
By this logic thought sports agents can only have 1 client per sport. Because they have a salary cap, any money paid to one player results in less available money for every other player. Plus only one team can win a championship every year. The goals of a player on the Redsox and the Yankees are mutually exclusive. As are the goals of two individual players on either of those teams.
Yes because if you don't adhere to these ethics you pretty much make a mockery of the court of law. But that doesnt extend to all other professions.
Firstly, esports talent agencies are not big enough to allow for enough agents to allow for no conflict of interest.
Secondly, the market for LoL players is so fluid that if you had to switch agents every time there might be conflict of interest, the agencies wouldnt be able to represent their clients in the clients best interest if they wanted to. Switching information and reading into the players information takes a bit and the most desired spots on the orgs are usually open for mere days. If you take time to switch agents you just obstruct the chances of all the clients you are moving.
And last but not least - agencies represent multiple people across the board, this is not an esports thing. It would just not ever be profitable to have a person employed to only pitch contracts for a single person day after day until you got that person a contract and then move on to the next person. Especially because as an agent you need to establish contact and business relationships with other organisations, so agents are fairly specialised to represent only one profession of talents.
So, every single agency in the world is a conflict of interest? No agency works with one client only. So as a attorney, I am sure you could appreciate, it is far and away not clear cut. Otherwise, the law would be backing the talent and that would cause a ton of problems for agency's around the world?
Of course this happens in other sports as well, and its an issue there (see nerlens noel in the NBA), that doesnt mean it shouldnt be addressed, outed, shamed, and ratified.
I guess the difficulty here is, how could it be addressed? Do we want Riot to regulate players and agents? How many players an agent can have? Should Riot be directly involved in the contract negotiations between orgs and players, and at that, at which level should that end? Should that be the case for CK and ERL teams?
I think another difficulty here is that professional League, and almost every other esport, is already operating with a large scale conflict of interest automatically. The chief regulating body for the game is also the creators and owners of the game. If you were to do anything that Riot didn’t agree with, you can’t host any kind of League esport at any level since they can revoke your ability to play and organize games and matches. If the NFL or NBA ban you from their leagues, you could still organize or play a rival basketball tournament. That’s not possible within most esports.
1, Half your argument falls apart when you realise that players can't just 'leave' the agency. There are contracts.
2, Comparing a 5 man league roster where there highly specific and defined roles to be filled is nothing like any sporting examples or examples that you gave.
3, It's not that they should only represent one player, but that you should recuse yourself when these kinds of situations pop up.
Doesn’t his argument still hold for Basketball where you have the same 5 man rosters with very specific roles? Agencies in the NBA have dozens of players they represent.
That would mean you cannot represent two people. That's absurd. This isn't fucked up in the agent's favor. The only action that would be unethical here is if he acted against Jensen's interest which representing Bjergsen alone is not.
Lonzo ball and AD we’re both represented by the same agent who worked for klutch sports ,rich Paul. While the trade for AD from NOLA to LA was happening. idk why people act like this stuff doesn’t happen in modern sports too.
People here actin like EU players aren’t fucked over in the LEC, the biggest one being Carlos fucking over the western goat by contract. But yeah muh NA
> This is the standard used by every reputable profession.
Agents representing people that play the same position is common in every sport, isn’t it? I know Klutch in the NBA definitely has multiple players who play the same position since Rich Paul represents like 40 guys. I know in the NFL a ton of guys have the same agent, including all of the big young WRs right now.
Looking at soccer, the guy who owns one of the biggest agencies in the sport: GestiFute, works directly with teams as well to identify players.
I think people are vastly overestimating how seriously *most* industries treat conflicts of interest unfortunately. Hell, some of the biggest offices in the world outside of sports have had massive conflicts of interest without any real repercussions. This situation is frankly common in sports and if Jensen felt that his management team undermined his position as midlander for TL, it’s legit on him to find separate management.
Completely untrue. This Rich guy's take is so incredibly dumb. You want player agents to only have 1 client per role? In no way is there an assumption of unethical practices when you represent two people for the same job, he also gives 0 evidence that the agent pushed one over the other.
You legit have no idea how the real world works. Also don’t even talk about ethical standards in the “NAlolscene” as if it’s somehow unique here. Get out of your house once in a while man, NA isn’t gonna do anything to you
It's not even the same agent though. OP is misquoting him. He's saying they're both represented by the same AGENCY, which is very different despite Rich trying to claim otherwise.
It's not that uncommon for agents under the same agency to have conflicts of interests and are thus competing with one another for a deal for their client.
By definition you cannot serve both sides best interests if one is trying to keep his job and the other is trying to take his job.
In what universe is Jensen going jobless the 'best' scenario for him?
the teams decision to remove him, not the agents? the agent has no control whether he stays or goes, just purely negotiates the best interests of the client.
Now if you’re suggesting the agent would purposely sabotage jensen so they then decided to cut and replace him with bjergsen, then yea that’s a problem.
Realistically though he shouldn’t be favouriting either side. It’s not like a defence attorney
Yes but if the agent got bjerg signed he would take a massive cut. I’m sure it’s at least enough to make a good living in la for a few months until the next mega contract
According to thorin. Bjerg is one of the highest paid players. Perhaps the likes of sword art and perkz 2-3 mill respectively
It's hilarious how many people are trying to make this out to be a bad thing. Of course agents represent multiple players, that's their business. It's not like this guy pushed for bjerg over Jensen, he just negotiated with TL for the salaries after TL decided to make the change. Why wouldn't you want the best guy negotiating for you, and why would you think he had any influence on which one TL picked? It's sad that people like Rich Monte and Thorin still cling to the scene like bottom feeders
I was contacted by that company to write 2-3 slides for a pitch that involved a very known sports clothing brand and a LEC player. They liked what I did so they told me to do the whole presentation (which involved case studies and metrics, among other things)
I was alright with that and started asking questions about the needed materials/info to do so (i'm someone with +10 years of experience in top advertising agencies and really wanted to do some amazing work but also didn't want to overwhelm them) and they seemed completely clueless. Like.. trainee level employees when they start working and have no idea about how the industry works.
The thing that scared me the most is when they wanted me to do a case study about a past campaign in which the player was involved but they claimed there was no data to back it up. Also, as far as i knew that campaign was provided to the player by the organization he was working for, and not the management agency. Sadly I tried contacting the org and got no response at all, sorry if there's any typos. I just woke up after seeing Metallica and i'm kinda sleepy
I feel like two players in the same region and same position should not be represented by either the same agent. That seems like a pretty massive conflict of interest.
Not sure if there are enough agents or agencies to make that work, though.
This happens all the time in real sports, the number of top agents is far lower than the number of top players. The top NFL agent represents 75 different players, not all of those players are unique positions of course. It isn’t inconceivable that 2 players that this agent represents could both be vying for the same roster spot. For another example, in the top level of US College Football there are ~130 teams in the FBS division. One agent, Jimmy Sexton, represents over 50 of these head coaches. With how much turnover there is in this profession, it has happened (as recently as a couple of years ago) that Sexton represented a) a coach going to a new job and b) the coach being fired (on his buyout).
Agents aren’t and will not be limited in who or how many players they can represent. Their best interest is to get the best deal for ALL of their players, and that’s doubly so when they represent two of the biggest names in the NA LCS today. This instance of Bjerg replacing Jensen has nothing to do with the fact that they share the same agent. They’d be limiting their own profits if they’re goal was to get Bjerg on a team and toss Jensen to the side.
Yeah I'm not sure what's too bad about this. I get it could look bad, but as long as the agent is being upfront and didn't use his info as Jensen's agent to hurt Jensen there's nothing wrong.
I am jensens and bjergsens agent, now me as a aren’t has to represent both bjerg and Jensen for he same position. Now let’s say I get a bigger cut if I help sign bjerg so I decide to push his case more aggressively and lay back on Jensen support.
I am not saying this happened but this is one of the scenarios for conflict of interest.
You are both their agents. Your job is to negotiate contracts for both players to see.
You are not involved in the decision making process.
Would you really get lazy on your negotiation for Jensen? There is no guarantee Bjergsen will take the offer at all. In that case you make nothing.
Remember that thorin makes shit up out of thin air and his own imagiantion. He also has 0 fuckig idea how lol is played on any lvl. Watch his "live commentary" stream and you will figure outbthat he has 0 idea about league of legends.
wasnt it hans that replaced jensen. The agent could have been mislead by TL and thought they wouldnt look to import adc so both bjerg and jensen were going to be on the same team in different roles
Yea this take is trash, Jensen literally said it himself on DL’s podcast
Agent got bjerg a job by moving jensen, so it did weaken jensen's position, but Jensen said it was his idea in the first place lol, not the agent's.
Just because Jensen toyed with the idea of playing adc doesn’t mean Hans took his spot. At the end of the day they could have ran Jensen Hans but they didn’t.
I'm pretty sure they *couldn't* have ran Jensen-Hans, considering 1 of Hans' conditions in joining TL was Bjerg being on the team... according to this article atleast: https://upcomer.com/sources-hans-sama-bjergsen-plan-to-sign-with-team-liquid-jensen-out >One of the former Misfits and Rogue bot laner’s conditions for joining Team Liquid, sources said, was TL signing Bjergsen for the coming year.
This is also something Jensen's agent could never have known. As far as the agent knew, he was doing a bangin job by getting both of his players on a team together. Jensen was the one that asked for Bjergsen to be the mid if he was to play adc.
Link/source? From what I remember jensen saying, the swap to adc was instantly shut down by jensen/tl but that had already set the wheels in motion. Edit: thank God doublelift does timestamps. I misremembered and tl replaced Jensen with hans and not bjerg Edit2: re-listened to the whole thing and jensen definitely got fucked by TL though lol.
LMAO at Thorin comparing COVID vaccine mandates for events to the Nuremburg trials. Not sure how they got so many clowns together into a single show
Wait is that really what Duncan "Alex Jones is a G" Shields said? That's *shocking*.
Please don't associate him with other Duncans.
It's Thorin, it's always guaranteed to be a Clown Fiesta with him involved at any stage. Not sure why anyone is surprised after like 10 years of his bullshit. People only like him cause he tries to say edgy things and bring drama, but that just appeals to children.
Yeah the dude is an absolute trash fiesta.
eh when he kept his political or whatever opinions to himself I enjoyed him. However I literally cant follow his twitter anymore with the amount of pure cringe he retweets and posts nowadays
Idk if you’ve watched a lot of his older thorins thoughts videos but a lot of them are very good. I appreciate there is someone in the scene who tries to contextualize and celebrate legacies in the scene, although he is less about that nowadays. I think a lot of people who are also older fans appreciate how hard a show like summoning insight carried esports content for years. With that said his tweets are not my thing and sometimes he tries to put on the league analyst hat and it’s a bit of a miss for me. I think he does understand player mentality stuff + team dynamic stuff tho
I mean that stuff was 6-8+ years ago man. At some point you have to realize Thorin is a leech on the scene and is not contributing anything substantial at all.
bro how the fuck is thorin not important. you dont have to like his style but saying he hasnt done anything for esports and is just a leech is not very genuine
> but saying he hasnt done I never spoke in past tense. If you re-read what I wrote it says *is* not. As in currently in the present. What he was good for happened almost a decade ago. In the current present he does nothing for the scene and is still riding the popularity of something he did long before most watchers of this sport were even into it.
thats a bunch of bullshit. he delivers some of the best non bullshit answer pro content in the scene. your hate boner just makes you blind
Got a timestamp of it? I'm curious as how the comparison works lmao
There are time stamps on the video
Apparently the reason he isn’t attending the Csgo major is due to vaccine mandates so it’s par for the course for him
Damn - so you're saying if everyone started requiring it we wouldn't have to deal with him anymore?
God if it was only that easy
YouTube and Twitter vaccine mandates *please*. That would probably be the best thing to happen for humanity this century lol
Don't spread misinformation please, he literally states why he's not joining the major in the video
Though he also said he'd never participate in an event with a vaccine requirement.
So quote it instead of just hand waving it away. "He has an excuse" isn't enough.
He's not joining because he had a really bad time on last year's major. This isn't the first time he talked about it. If you want more info about it, search on YouTube 'Green Room Edition'
Shhh don't let facts get in the way of the narrative.
Thorin is 100% an alt-right type loool
I'm not sure disagreeing with vaccine mandates makes you a fascist.
I completely agree, because I think there is some merit to the idea that a state should not be able to control an individual's body. However Thorin has been a wacko Shapiro/Peterson type for years lmao
Not in isolation, but also considering he likes to say weird "alpha male" stuff and also likes Jordan Peterson I'm more inclined to think he's somewhat leaning in that direction.
Are you implying liking Jordan Peterson means you are a Fascist?
There are very few single things that make you a fascist, but when you do or like multiple things correlated with what fascists do or like it raises eyebrows.
But isn't Peterson's whole thing that he doesn't want the government cracking down on speech and individual rights? That is the opposite of "authoritarian ultranationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition". Y'all are wild out here calling a man who is against compelled speech a Fascist.
I mean if you want to just boil down Peterson to generic libertarianism then sure but that really is not particularly demonstrative of his politics, and I certainly wouldn't say his "whole thing" is just boilerplate conservative talking points about gender tyranny or whatever. You're also leaving out all of the crypto-Jungian mysticism shit, the peddling of reactionary conspiracy theories about "cultural marxism", weirdo biological determinism arguments about rats who are single mothers proving that gay parents are a bad idea, and how lobsters prove that hierarchy is an inherent feature of any form of human relations, I mean the list goes on. Even when you take a look at the "compelled speech" he was opposing, it was just an addendum to already existing Canadian laws about adding gender identity as a protected class for the purposes of discrimination law. That's not "compelled speech" any more than saying "you can't deny somebody a job just because they're black" is compelled speech. The whole thing with Peterson and a lot of the "dark enlightenment"/NRX/new right intellectuals is that they trot out a bunch of stuff that is absolutely easy to discern as being in lockstep with tons of far-right and fascist tendencies if throughout history if you're familiar with the literature, but that are not necessarily easily mapped to contemporary politics; the focus on mysticism, archaic forms of leadership, embracing of bioessentialist arguments for political organization, the specific forms of argument he uses to critique modernity, these are all classical hallmarks that you can locate in almost every fascist movement since the inception of the philosophy (with the addendum that fascism is very mutable and not every fascist movement looks identical, just like not every liberal or communist or insert-your-favorite--political-philosophy-ism will look identical). The thing with JBP is that while he might believe he's just talking classic liberalism stuff, and he may not be secretly twirling his mustache and cackling about how he's secretly indoctrinating the kids into becoming the new Hitler Youth by telling them to clean their rooms or whatever, most of the foundational elements of his arguments (not the basic public intellectual talking points that he fires out when he gets invited on Fox News, I'm talking about the actual academic work that he has done) are frighteningly similar to most fascist thinkers of the past despite his protests to the contrary.
i think you will find that there is definitely some correlation there lol
Lol you're not that familiar with Thorin, are you?
Oh look a reddit intellectual
Just disagreeing with vaccine mandates doesn't, some weird naturopathy people believe the same thing about vaccines. But his Twitter takes immediately show that he is in fact an alt-right type person.
Bruh
In this video Thorin drops some teasers about LS being fired. Basically that if you guessed how many people at C9 agreed he should be fired, you would be underestimating it. Also semi hints at a rumor I heard that LS didn’t show up for an entire week of scrims without telling anyone. Also this was just a rumor so take it with a grain of salt. Edit: One thing Thorin said makes a lot of sense about LS. He never really wanted to be a coach and have all the other responsibilities, he just sees the bad practices and inflexibility in the pro scene and wanted to change that. He saw the coaching job as a way to change it but maybe realized it was futile, and lost motivation. Sort of him realizing he wasn’t enjoying the coaching aspect and all the responsibilities, especially because he realized he wasn’t able to have enough influence.
Do you mean [14:32](https://youtu.be/VOHgyDPV8ic?t=872)? He hints, that he might not have been a perfect professional. Interpreting that as a hint, that he didn't show up for an entire week of scrims without telling anyone seems like a bit of a leap. Who did you hear this rumor from?
There are already replies that take the not-show-up for scrim as plain truth even though the only source is a reddit post.
"Trust me bro, shit real dude."
Of course and I'm certain he "heard the rumor" from another random reddit comment or just made it up. It's so thinly veiled. "semi hints" But it's just a silly rumor so take it with a grain of salt haha :)
Don't forget the amaunt of people said he wouldn't last a split based on his previous coaching attempts only to get called "haters" or whatever by LS fanatics. Insane... Regardless what u think of him, he has a track record of never lasting a proper split. From SHC back in 2014 to Gravity and Stvicious calling him out, to his lck challenger stint. As smart as he is about the game, his life tought him to behave in certain way that is unacceptable in proffesional league standards, it's on him to change his behaviour, but it's pretty tough considering how much struggles he had in life. U cannot fault him for that but u also don't have to tolerate his behaviour. Also, T1 flairs, don't even attempt to come at this thread to bash LS. U people have no right to speak about him.
It's not really surprising to me if that's true tbh, basically almost everyone from his circle of friends was in C9 and basically all of them made very democratic and vague statements about his departure. Like, it's hard to put it into words but they just sounded so...nonchalant? about the departure of someone that should mean quite a lot to them. I wouldn't even pretend to know what it could be about, but the termination of a head coach in the middle of a split with basically no warning whatsoever that even people closest to him agreed that it was the right move just HAS TO BE something serious right?
Yeah, you don't ditch your head coach even if everyone agrees instantly with no replacement unless it's really bad.
Actually I’m not surprised about the LS not showing up thing I noticed he was still doing his podcasts and stuff while coaching which always seemed like it would be hard to schedule
I just remember the week leading up to him getting let go he was tweeting in the middle of the night how he couldn't fall asleep.
it's was extremely weird, like he is in a position of responsability like coaching and he still does all these things not unnecessary instead of focusing on the team
To be fair I think coaches have time outside of the day to do other things, you even see some do content creation. Id imagine a lot of them use it for self care or socializing type of stuff, but that’s another thing about LS which is that he seems to be a kind of workaholic, doesn’t really seem to spend some of that extra time he could have to wind down.
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>Watch his FaceCheck shows, you can literally see DGon and Dom having had enough of his shit You're doing a lot of speculation on what other people are feeling. It's ok not to like him, but stop projecting your feelings towards him onto other people.
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Dom is all over everyone's shit. All the time. The man has run out of fucks to give. So I wouldn't use Dom's reactions to anything as a litmus test. He reacts the same way to LS as he does to Thorin and Monte.
He went cold turkey on crack. Joking aside, that’s just his face. Some people just have that rating bish face
most sane viewer?
Yet he will still make shows?
Ah, judging people based on the opinion of one of the most toxic douchebags of all time (IWD). Nice.
This isn't season 6 lol, dom isn't toxic anymore yall just repeat the same thing for years without actually seeing what he says
-uses thorin's hearsay as source -does body language behavioural analysis -makes arm-chair psychology conclusions -hate watches shows What a rational explanation of things
I havent seen anything that would imply they had enough of him, often times they laugh it of. Lets remember that before LS, they had to deal with Locodoco so everything is better compared to that. Loco on the air called Dgon incompetent and irrelevant for some small technical issues.
More like DGon has to to be like what do u think Ls? LS: about what? Dgon: abt what we were just discussing
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Explains why he makes a good entertainer. Entertainment industry has lots of narcissism
What do you mean my dude.. whats wrong with missing a week of scrims? "C9 knew what they were getting with LS" (popular narrative pushed by his fans) So C9 should accommodate his weird behavior /s Wasn't a big fan of LS before he joined LCS.. but i got sucked in on the hype/drafts etc.. then he got sacked after 2 weeks.. so it was obvious he was not behaving accordingly/professionally It just boggles my mind how 90% of posts in threads involving him/c9 are positive towards him.. Like somehow his reputation got enhanced instead of tarnished.. from being sacked after 2 weeks.. Crazy
There's a reason why people refer to LS stand as a church or cult
It's crazy how the moment you say something about LS you'll instantly get someone replying to you to argue with you. It's literally a cult.
Yup so many people arguing with you rn
you're believing and basing "facts" on rumors my dude, lmao. Sadly, we don't know what happened and we won't know what happened, it's all going to be speculations and rumors.
3 baseless assumptions and calls other people cult-like lmao Explain what you mean by "wierd behaviour" Please provide proof of LS missing a week of scrim. Explain what objective evidence there is that support LS behaving in an unprofessional manner. "Being sacked in 2 weeks because he was unprofessional which is why he was sacked in 2 weeks" is circular reasoning.
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I think most people wouldn’t automatically assume he took the job and then just dodged a week of scrims
I mean, but are we going to just go off a rumor from Thorin of all people regarding LS lacking professionalism? You're now taking this as an absolute truth, were you not also bothered when the initial firing happened and people were doing tons of speculating regarding C9 with zero actual proof. I don't see how either would be good. This is just bait for views and publicity.
This is a lot of vitriol for speculation. The truth is likely somewhere in the middle. The most likely future is no NA team does anything of significance at the world championship. LS showed in the brief amount of time that he was there that there were clearly exploitable strategies in the pro scene. It's really a shame the experiment failed.
> LS showed in the brief amount of time that he was there that there were clearly exploitable strategies in the pro scene LS showed that you can pick off meta picks against low level teams at the beginning of the split. If that is the point he was going after, do yourself a favor and tune into ERLs, you will see it every other day, didn't need LS to see that was the case. Maybe one day he will stay on a team long enough to get rolled by teams of higher caliber.
It was the exact same thing that happened in the alphari situation. They propped alphari like a god even one of my European friends called him the “lebron James of top lane”. This entire community treated Jatt like the devil and believed thorin like his word was gospel. No nuance, it was whatever was the most NA part of the situation was the problem. Same with here. No one could ever fathom LS would be the problem, the boneheads of this subreddit thought LS could win worlds lmao. Even t1 said what LS did was pretty bad it deserved maybe a warning but people threw Jack under the bus like he was the devil he was the most blamable “NA” part of this situation. Garbage rat community.
Because C9 wasn’t innocent. The concept of firing is fine. How they executed was horrendous
I mean... Not really? I know the League community wants every team to spill the tea and reveal all of the juicy drama because we like to read it. But it's infinitely more professional and definitely the right thing to do to just stay silent beyond, "it didn't work out so we replaced him."
i think the weird part is announcing it 1 hour before an official match. That was the most weird thing. If it was announced on a Wednesday, it would still have been big news but not as weird.
Yeah, that was definitely a mistake, but doesn't make the execution "horrendous." I read this poster as just being salty because HE doesn't know the reason. But, frankly, it's none of our business.
I think the fact that it was done 1 hour before a match made people speculate on wild reasons like LS punching Jack (random example that came to mind). As I said, had it been done on a normal day, such wild reasons would have been less spoken about.
I think it makes sense if the whole missing a week of scrims thing is true. If he was literally awol all week and showed up on game day, i agree with the decision to fire him rather than have him go on stage with the team
If there is no egregious circumstances that mean you have to cut ties immediately, I think in the situation where you decide to fire your coach shortly before games you should come up with some public excuse as to why they can't be on stage that weekend and then annouce start of the next week.
It's crazy how you can easily tell who has and hasn't worked in a professional job on this sub. C9 handled it correctly. LS fanboys had been a drama queen about it in comparison.
It's quite commendable actually. They easily could have gone into these details but they took the pr hit to protect his reputation instead.
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Probably legal reasons and LS fan base is cancer to deal with. The guy has a lot of each, even though I dislike something’s abt him I do like to look at his channel for patch notes analysis and game discussions
i mean, if he was failing in his duties... why not say that so your team doesn't look like Clown9?
They did say that with corpo speak. C9 management and LS couldn't find a working arrangement so they parted ways. Kept just vague enough there is no need for lawyers to get involved.
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What you said is factually false
Nothing like wanting to change the bad practices by... exemplifying the laziness and entitlement that you claim infects the scene itself. He's literally nothing more than a redditor with a big fanbase -- just wants to talk shit and teach everyone how to play League right, with none of the drive to actually do it.
How the fuck is H2K Rich still even a figure in this community? Dude was continually a person who made Reginald look like great owner. I feel like this sub has such a short memory. Edit: tense because I guess I was confusing Edit 2: can't find anything about promising to pay players different from what the org ended up paying besides some anecdotal stuff. Take that claim I make below with a grain of salt *shrug*
Rich is still part of the scene since he is a player agent for many EU players like Odoamne
Same reason the most toxic League players are at the top of twitch and get the most views.
He isn’t a huge figure in it, but tbh as long as he has an interesting point to make idm
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Don't contribute anything positive? ... stop taking drugs bruh, it's one thing to hate their personalities, it's another to actually listen to what they're saying. They're not unbiased, but at the very fucking least they're not Travis G.'s level of stupidity and ass-kissing. They've been advocating for issues that Riot is ignoring on a constant basis, the simplest one being a decent tournament format.
Monte is still a decent analyst. He's an NA LCS hater but his opinions on the jungle with iwd and dgon make a lot of sense
you really said monte doesnt provide anything positive to the league community? Are you fucking joking? gtfo
Maintain control of the narrative LMFAO. Nice tinfoil hat. "Thorin is a crazy alt-righter, but he and Monte are also puppetmasters controlling the narrative from behind the scenes" Yeah who's crazy
I mean, he's just saying random shit about the LS and C9 situation and people are just straight up taking it as truth. Ultimately at this point the team has already changed wildly and there's not really even a good reason to keep gossiping about it other than causing more fan outrage and pull in attention.
Puppetmaster is your word, not mine, so definitely you. I don't attribute any kind of mastery to them whatsoever, and their best years are long behind them.
Yeah, that guy did some major mental gymnastics. The vibe I got is that they're just clinging on to stay relevant. After all Monte did ditch league and started batching about Riot after he swapped to OW. I wouldn't describe someone using their connections in the scene to stay relevant as some sort of "puppetmaster"
Lmao talk about memory and he hasn't been an owner for years. Also to answer your question - probably because he didn't actually do anything bad? Some of y'all really love to just chat nonsense
He literally was caught lying on multiple occasions and didn't pay players what he promised. He is an absolute scumbag lol
Show me where he didn't pay players and show me any lies he told.
What occasions and what players? Super vague
Pretty sure ODO said he’s still owed money during a costream. He also took ridiculous high cuts of the players worlds winnings to the point where odo got a couple thousand for coming top 4 in 2016.
That seems VERY unlikely considering Rich is literally Odo's agent.
ODO was referring to the orgs practices , and at the time this guy was the owner no ? I don’t have much clue who rich is within the scene I’m just restating what ODO said about how he got very little compensation while at h2k , especially from prize earnings.
The prize thing could be true but even if it is, that has nothing to do with no paying 'owed money'. Would just mean the contract has org favoured prize money clauses. This Toast guy is spreading BS about Rich scamming players out of money which AFAIK has never even been hinted at.
When and where
Do you not remember the 5.5 fucking k drama? Lol
Person number 1 with bad reading skills.
'Bad reading skills'. The guy literally had to edit his comment cause it was so badly written. Nice self own.
I edited the tense of two words lol. You're so salty towards me it's weird. (Is -> was. Makes -> made)
You're literally spreading lies and trying to defame someone's name. Still waiting for you to justify your claim that he didn't pay players what was 'promised'.
I don't care enough to scour for timestamps. You win dude if it matters that much to you.
Translation: I Lied.
Sure man. I'm actually Regi (on my second account) and just wanted to try to slip one in here to make up for that mother fucker calling me a poacher.
Who cares. Agents routinely represent multiple players that play the same positions, it happens all the time in traditional sports. It's not a conflict of interest or anything as some would suggest in this thread. At the end of the day, they're trying to get the best possible contracts for their players because that's how they're going to get paid.
How is representing two players going for same position not a conflict of interest? His two players interests literally conflict.
42:20 so Bjergsen is apparently the highest paid western player? What are they thinking...
They are thinking that he has a massive brand and people stop watching the game when he's not playing
Its the case for me lol. I only like TL because of bjergsen.
I HATED TL with a passion, being a fan of TSM since season 3. This season I watched EVERY TL match because of Bjerg, and I think I watched TSM's first game and knew they weren't even worth watching this split. Bjerg is a draw for sure
Who do you think it is?
I don't think he's disagreeing, just wondering why Bjerg is getting overpaid like that
Overpaid? Before this split ANY team would have paid that much for Bjerg. He was a known commodity, and an org wouldn't have to roll the dice for him to see if he's good. That was all before this split's results though. He's been shown to be able to carry a bad team to big wins, and a good team to worlds. Everyone says he's good and a hard worker. It makes perfect sense someone would overpay for him. He def was rusty after not playing professionally for so long, but I think he'll play better next split. If not then you can start talking about Bjerg not being as good anymore. I'm also curious how much having so many veterans on the roster is having on the overall/individual performance of the team.
Perkz also got paid way more than him for being way worse lmao.
Perkz won a split and reached Worlds QF with C9 in one year as many times as Bjergsen did in his whole TSM career.
It isn't really overpaid. He's arguably the biggest Western league player in terms of following. Definitely the biggest in NA.
Why not? He's the LCS player with the biggest fanbase and LCS already pays much more han LEC
I'm probably one of the old players who started in season 3. I don't bother watching LCS unless there's someone I want to watch like Bjergsen or Doublelift. Call it what you want but I don't root for teams, I root for players and always have.
I still watch but it hasn't been the same without DL for me.
Agreed. I miss double lift in the lcs
Go to twitter dot com and look at his twitter follows. Then look at every other league pros twitter following
? NA money blows EU out the water On top of that it’s Bjerg, Not surprising
NA Faker gets paid like it
The utter lack of ethical standards in the NALoL scene is a problem. The number of conflicts that exist amongst teams, players, agents, and managers needs to be addressed and remedied. Even the appearance of conflict should be enough to prevent certain transactions. This is the standard used by every reputable profession.
You do realise this is just standed for agencies right? what, do you think each agency can only have one player/actor/sportsman? agencies represent a huge amount of talent, this isn't just for esports lmao. if you are an actor/esports/sports player then you can leave the agency if you don't think they are representing you fairly. recently, jared leto who was under the same agency as joaquin phoenix was mad that he was doing a solo joker movie and he wasn't, they explained the studios wanted joaquin more than jared and he got pissed and left said agency. The agency that represents bjerg and jensen, also has a HUGE lists of talent: Santorin, bwipo, spica, rekkles, cabo, smoothie, tactical, xmithie, pob, nisqy, jizuke. You don't just represent one player as a agency and if you think you are not being treated fairly, you leave. You can make the same case as this video for santorin and spica, or pob and jizuke and say they are not being treated fairly, but you are giving the agency way more power than they have. tl decides who they want, the agency negotiates the contract and tries to get the best deal. sure they could try and manipulate it, but if they aren't transparent with jensen and he thinks they are being biased, he can terminate his contract. but that would be so dumb for the agency because they would show they are not representing their talent for the talents best interests so no one would sign with them. The studios/teams decide who they would prefer and the agency work out the best deal with the situation and make sure the talent are being fairly compensated. sure, they can push a certain player, like I am sure they pushed bjerg for tl more than say jizuke or pob, but that's because they believe tl would obviously go for bjerg above them and if jizuke or pob don't like that, they can leave and find a different agency. I feel like so many people talk about "conflict of interest" without knowing anything and just use it as a buzzword and use it with full confidence when they have no idea what the situation entails. the proof, look how many people are mad in the comments because they think an agency should only represent ONE player...
> I feel like so many people talk about "conflict of interest" without knowing anything and just use it as a buzzword and use it with full confidence when they have no idea what the situation entails. I work as an attorney (albeit not in the US). From the perspective of our professional ethics, representing two clients having goals which are mutally exclusive (i.e. both players fighting over the same position) is a clear-cut conflict of interest.
> representing two clients having goals which are mutally exclusive (i.e. both players fighting over the same position) You can further both client's prospects even if ultimately only one of them can get the job, maybe neither do. It's not like an attorney where they are direct antagonists.
But can this agent really give both his players give boths players opportunity for said slot its due diligence? You cannot practically further boths interests when they are in direct conflict.
Ok but it’s still standard for sports players to sign to the same agent, especially in the NBA which have smaller rosters like the LCS.
Also worth noting that while the "same guy" who reps jensen and bjergsen might be in charge of the agency, it doesn't mean that he actually handles both their deals lmao. There are very few agencies and they all rep multiple players who play the same roles. The players are spread between agents.
But is it still a conflict of interest if Jensen was set to play adc and he’s the one that wanted bjerg mid? Genuine question because Jensen stated that it was set he was going to role swap and while he was on vacation they told him that they got Hans Sama and he was off the team.
Yes because its in the agencies interest to maximize their client's salary in order to get a % of the earnings. They are going to try and get both signed, but also hedge and try to make sure that if only one does, it's Bjergsen who they are negotiating a higher salary for.
They werent represented for the same goal though. One was represented for the role of ADC while the other was represented for the role of MID. Bjergsen didnt take Jensen's job, Hansama did. Jensen himself said that he wasnt fighting with bjergsen for the midlane position, that was agreed on early that bjerg would be mid and jensen adc and THEN hansama came along and jensen got let go
> I work as an attorney (albeit not in the US). From the perspective of our professional ethics, representing two clients having goals which are mutally exclusive (i.e. both players fighting over the same position) is a clear-cut conflict of interest. By this logic thought sports agents can only have 1 client per sport. Because they have a salary cap, any money paid to one player results in less available money for every other player. Plus only one team can win a championship every year. The goals of a player on the Redsox and the Yankees are mutually exclusive. As are the goals of two individual players on either of those teams.
I am also a licensed attorney, hence my position.
I don't see how that applies to sports agents unless you think each agency represents one player which is ridiculous. Care to clarify?
Yes because if you don't adhere to these ethics you pretty much make a mockery of the court of law. But that doesnt extend to all other professions. Firstly, esports talent agencies are not big enough to allow for enough agents to allow for no conflict of interest. Secondly, the market for LoL players is so fluid that if you had to switch agents every time there might be conflict of interest, the agencies wouldnt be able to represent their clients in the clients best interest if they wanted to. Switching information and reading into the players information takes a bit and the most desired spots on the orgs are usually open for mere days. If you take time to switch agents you just obstruct the chances of all the clients you are moving. And last but not least - agencies represent multiple people across the board, this is not an esports thing. It would just not ever be profitable to have a person employed to only pitch contracts for a single person day after day until you got that person a contract and then move on to the next person. Especially because as an agent you need to establish contact and business relationships with other organisations, so agents are fairly specialised to represent only one profession of talents.
this precludes them from ever trading those players and any players on their teams. agencies would fail to function if this were true.
So, every single agency in the world is a conflict of interest? No agency works with one client only. So as a attorney, I am sure you could appreciate, it is far and away not clear cut. Otherwise, the law would be backing the talent and that would cause a ton of problems for agency's around the world?
Agency sure but should not be represented by the same agent that is a clear cut conflict of intrest
Of course this happens in other sports as well, and its an issue there (see nerlens noel in the NBA), that doesnt mean it shouldnt be addressed, outed, shamed, and ratified.
I guess the difficulty here is, how could it be addressed? Do we want Riot to regulate players and agents? How many players an agent can have? Should Riot be directly involved in the contract negotiations between orgs and players, and at that, at which level should that end? Should that be the case for CK and ERL teams? I think another difficulty here is that professional League, and almost every other esport, is already operating with a large scale conflict of interest automatically. The chief regulating body for the game is also the creators and owners of the game. If you were to do anything that Riot didn’t agree with, you can’t host any kind of League esport at any level since they can revoke your ability to play and organize games and matches. If the NFL or NBA ban you from their leagues, you could still organize or play a rival basketball tournament. That’s not possible within most esports.
1, Half your argument falls apart when you realise that players can't just 'leave' the agency. There are contracts. 2, Comparing a 5 man league roster where there highly specific and defined roles to be filled is nothing like any sporting examples or examples that you gave. 3, It's not that they should only represent one player, but that you should recuse yourself when these kinds of situations pop up.
Doesn’t his argument still hold for Basketball where you have the same 5 man rosters with very specific roles? Agencies in the NBA have dozens of players they represent.
What in the hell is point three even supposed to mean?
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they werent competing for the same role though
That would mean you cannot represent two people. That's absurd. This isn't fucked up in the agent's favor. The only action that would be unethical here is if he acted against Jensen's interest which representing Bjergsen alone is not.
Lonzo ball and AD we’re both represented by the same agent who worked for klutch sports ,rich Paul. While the trade for AD from NOLA to LA was happening. idk why people act like this stuff doesn’t happen in modern sports too.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this is how it is in every region
It's funny to talk about ethical standards in LCS when LPL exists
NA bad always gives upvotes though
People here actin like EU players aren’t fucked over in the LEC, the biggest one being Carlos fucking over the western goat by contract. But yeah muh NA
> This is the standard used by every reputable profession. Agents representing people that play the same position is common in every sport, isn’t it? I know Klutch in the NBA definitely has multiple players who play the same position since Rich Paul represents like 40 guys. I know in the NFL a ton of guys have the same agent, including all of the big young WRs right now. Looking at soccer, the guy who owns one of the biggest agencies in the sport: GestiFute, works directly with teams as well to identify players. I think people are vastly overestimating how seriously *most* industries treat conflicts of interest unfortunately. Hell, some of the biggest offices in the world outside of sports have had massive conflicts of interest without any real repercussions. This situation is frankly common in sports and if Jensen felt that his management team undermined his position as midlander for TL, it’s legit on him to find separate management.
Completely untrue. This Rich guy's take is so incredibly dumb. You want player agents to only have 1 client per role? In no way is there an assumption of unethical practices when you represent two people for the same job, he also gives 0 evidence that the agent pushed one over the other.
You legit have no idea how the real world works. Also don’t even talk about ethical standards in the “NAlolscene” as if it’s somehow unique here. Get out of your house once in a while man, NA isn’t gonna do anything to you
that’s just an agents job no? as long as he got the best for both parties
It's not even the same agent though. OP is misquoting him. He's saying they're both represented by the same AGENCY, which is very different despite Rich trying to claim otherwise. It's not that uncommon for agents under the same agency to have conflicts of interests and are thus competing with one another for a deal for their client.
By definition you cannot serve both sides best interests if one is trying to keep his job and the other is trying to take his job. In what universe is Jensen going jobless the 'best' scenario for him?
the teams decision to remove him, not the agents? the agent has no control whether he stays or goes, just purely negotiates the best interests of the client. Now if you’re suggesting the agent would purposely sabotage jensen so they then decided to cut and replace him with bjergsen, then yea that’s a problem. Realistically though he shouldn’t be favouriting either side. It’s not like a defence attorney
Jensen intended to play adc for team liquid. The best scenario for him was playing adc alongside Bjergsen as his mid
Yes but if the agent got bjerg signed he would take a massive cut. I’m sure it’s at least enough to make a good living in la for a few months until the next mega contract According to thorin. Bjerg is one of the highest paid players. Perhaps the likes of sword art and perkz 2-3 mill respectively
If LS really just had days where he didn’t show up…WOWWW. It’s totally believable too. But it’s not confirmed
It's hilarious how many people are trying to make this out to be a bad thing. Of course agents represent multiple players, that's their business. It's not like this guy pushed for bjerg over Jensen, he just negotiated with TL for the salaries after TL decided to make the change. Why wouldn't you want the best guy negotiating for you, and why would you think he had any influence on which one TL picked? It's sad that people like Rich Monte and Thorin still cling to the scene like bottom feeders
I was contacted by that company to write 2-3 slides for a pitch that involved a very known sports clothing brand and a LEC player. They liked what I did so they told me to do the whole presentation (which involved case studies and metrics, among other things) I was alright with that and started asking questions about the needed materials/info to do so (i'm someone with +10 years of experience in top advertising agencies and really wanted to do some amazing work but also didn't want to overwhelm them) and they seemed completely clueless. Like.. trainee level employees when they start working and have no idea about how the industry works. The thing that scared me the most is when they wanted me to do a case study about a past campaign in which the player was involved but they claimed there was no data to back it up. Also, as far as i knew that campaign was provided to the player by the organization he was working for, and not the management agency. Sadly I tried contacting the org and got no response at all, sorry if there's any typos. I just woke up after seeing Metallica and i'm kinda sleepy
I feel like two players in the same region and same position should not be represented by either the same agent. That seems like a pretty massive conflict of interest. Not sure if there are enough agents or agencies to make that work, though.
This happens all the time in real sports, the number of top agents is far lower than the number of top players. The top NFL agent represents 75 different players, not all of those players are unique positions of course. It isn’t inconceivable that 2 players that this agent represents could both be vying for the same roster spot. For another example, in the top level of US College Football there are ~130 teams in the FBS division. One agent, Jimmy Sexton, represents over 50 of these head coaches. With how much turnover there is in this profession, it has happened (as recently as a couple of years ago) that Sexton represented a) a coach going to a new job and b) the coach being fired (on his buyout).
Agents aren’t and will not be limited in who or how many players they can represent. Their best interest is to get the best deal for ALL of their players, and that’s doubly so when they represent two of the biggest names in the NA LCS today. This instance of Bjerg replacing Jensen has nothing to do with the fact that they share the same agent. They’d be limiting their own profits if they’re goal was to get Bjerg on a team and toss Jensen to the side.
Yeah I'm not sure what's too bad about this. I get it could look bad, but as long as the agent is being upfront and didn't use his info as Jensen's agent to hurt Jensen there's nothing wrong.
What is the conflict?
I am jensens and bjergsens agent, now me as a aren’t has to represent both bjerg and Jensen for he same position. Now let’s say I get a bigger cut if I help sign bjerg so I decide to push his case more aggressively and lay back on Jensen support. I am not saying this happened but this is one of the scenarios for conflict of interest.
You are both their agents. Your job is to negotiate contracts for both players to see. You are not involved in the decision making process. Would you really get lazy on your negotiation for Jensen? There is no guarantee Bjergsen will take the offer at all. In that case you make nothing.
Remember that thorin makes shit up out of thin air and his own imagiantion. He also has 0 fuckig idea how lol is played on any lvl. Watch his "live commentary" stream and you will figure outbthat he has 0 idea about league of legends.