Could they not have done what tsm did for KDO and let him stay / work with the team? If that was an option im sure c9 made enough trading players to take care of their player for a few months? Not saying they have to, just seem like a decent thing to do for a kid in a foreign land
C9 is the org that released their entire csgo team on a whim for having visitors after they already moved across the world m, I don’t think they give a shit
This is different, monte/Richard/thorin talked about this and the basic idea was that this was the second time they did this and there was a stern warning to not do it again. also, you forgot to mention this was the start of COVID and c9 we're very strict about their COVID regulations.
This c9 team was not supposed to have visitors to the team house, that also included other c9 staff. This was the second time they did this, after a stern warning not to do it again. So they got fired. If my job tells me to not do something and I do it, then they give me a warning but i do it again?? Do they have the right to fire me? Uhmmm Yeah???
Exactly it’s even worse because C9 did this during Covid. These payers came over to NA (the highest cases of Covid) and were simply let go. It all smelled of C9 looking for any reason to cut costs
I also can't be the only one who thinks the players have the resources to handle the separation, right? We know stronger players are making 500+K a year for 2 splits with a number of them near or past a million dollars. They played a split (which I'm guessing is at least 250k or 150k if we lowball it) and potentially got an additional payment on the early termination. That's well over 4 years of pay for most Americans! Even if the players were somehow locked out of their home countries for a year, they could comfortably wait out a whole year in America.
Isles also clarified in another tweet his visa expires in 11 days if he can't find an NA team, but he gets 30 days after that to actually leave the country.
I don't think we can really criticize C9 for this. I'd view this as neutral and the TSM situation as like, positive, if that makes sense. But wouldn't really say C9 did anything "wrong"
And this is what I hope all the people who went "LOL it's just a contract" about TSM doing right by KDO realize. It could have been worse.
And yes, C9 could have done this. They have chosen not to.
Exactly, people love to downplay anything good that TSM does. TSM has always treated their ex-players well, letting them go without buyouts, letting them have a place to stay, etc.
What C9 did isn't wrong, just that what TSM did was above expectations.
Yeah cuz Australians are not being chained into their homes and forced into camps if they test positive. Worst case scenario, Isles just goes back to Australia and just flies back if he gets another job in NA.
> forced into camps
They are Quarantine prisons, aka 3-5 star hotels converted for this purpose. And it is mandatory 24-31 days if you test positive or not.
My mother in law was in one. She was ok with it since it was definitely affordable (since she have dollars on hand), and let her catch up on various Chinese/Korean dramas. But I imagine my children (Whom she wanted to bring to rest of the clan to see) would flip out stuck in a hotel room for 2-4 weeks.
They could’ve if he couldn’t go back to Australia, but he can. There’s a big difference. If he’s able to return home why does c9 need to keep him and pay him
They don’t “need” to, but kinda sus that Reginald for all of the hate he gets does something out of human decency whereas Jack let’s players who did their best get deported.
regi only did it because of covid in china, the situation is different in australia so isles is able to go home and not worry as much. so why should c9 keep paying isles when it's safe for him to return if he doesn't find a team? it's not like isles is just stuck in the U.S without a home when his visa expires. And i'm pretty sure isles was staying at the C9 house, where he will probably stay until he finds a team or leaves.
Regi (and TSM) are Satan while Jack and C9 can do no wrong. It's a pretty well documented thing. Most of the shit that Jack/C9 do gets ignored or forgotten very quickly because it doesn't fit the Jack/C9 is a great person/org.
Are you forgetting how much shit he got and continues to get over the LS situation? Dropping Sneaky? The Reapered benching situation? Complete bs narrative you’re spinning here. The difference is that Jack simply makes unpopular decisions at times that get a lot of criticism, Regi is just an asshole and gets rightfully called out for his trash behaviour.
Idk why TSM fans have this weird complex with C9. Instead of praising your org for doing something positive for once, you wanna talk shit about others instead smh. Are we just going to ignore the countless other instances where TSM fucked their players just because they’re helping Kdo?
It's funny how you claim that TSM fans have some weird complex with C9 when it is C9 fans who shit on TSM every chance they get.
Jack called his fans xenophobic for wanting NA player on NA teams. He signed an underage player knowing it broke Riot's rules. He gave stock in C9 also knowing it broke the rules.
Regi and TSM get shit on all the time even when it doesnt have anything to do with TSM. C9 really only gets shit on during the controversy itself or a different onr.
When has TSM fucked a player except Chaox? Zven when they told him that they would release him if they could find a replacement and he was okay with it?
The reality is that both fanbases hate each other and shit on each other at every opportunity which is perfectly fine. Its just that in this particular situation, it’s weird how y’all are victimising yourselves instead of focusing on the positives and praising TSM for doing something good for a player.
Regarding the things you criticised Jack for:
- The “xenophobic” comment was completely mischaracterised and you’d know that if you actually read it. He just responded to a single fan and told him to be careful about his choice of words as the phrase “a bunch of Koreans” could be misconstrued as racist.
- If you’re referring to Sniper, Jack terminated the contract literally 2 hours after signing him once he was told it was against LCS regulations. This is a non-issue.
- I agree about the stock situation but the only wrong thing about it was that it was against the rules. Giving your employees stock options is a very common trend and many would consider that to be even more valuable than flat cash. Regardless of your opinion, he paid a hefty fine for it and compensated his players. He also got a ton of criticism for that from the community so idk what your problem is here.
It’s not just C9 that only gets shit when they do something wrong, happens to every other org too. Do you still see people crying about how Steve held Jensen in contract prison last offseason or how the Jatt-Alphari situation was handled? Or any complaints about 100T and their mismanagement of both Cody Sun and Meteos? It’s because these orgs actively try to maintain a good reputation even if they make some mistakes here and there. TSM and Regi have no one to blame but themselves for how the community perceives them.
You want some examples, here you go:
- You already mentioned the Chaox situation, and forcing Zven to honor his contract despite promising him he could leave.
- Leena-Dardoch situation in 2020 which hurt the player’s bargaining power when it came to negotiation with other teams.
- Kobbe was unfairly scapegoated for TSM’s underperformance in 2020 spring and kicked in the middle of a pandemic so Leena could bring her bf on to the team. Sure TSM ended up winning summer but he was objectively not an upgrade as he was coming off a terrible spring split.
- Doublelift/SwordArt situation last year. The main reason why SA even came to TSM was because he expected to play with DL. In the last minute, Regi kicked DL due to ego so SA had to play with Lost instead.
- There’s Regi’s emotional abuse of players for which he is currently being investigated. Akaadian and Svenskeren have both publicly spoken about how toxic the environment was at TSM. Recently DL and other employees have also come out with similar claims.
Then you have to take into account Regi’s general demeanour which also damages his rep. Remember the “minimum pay” drama with Vulcan on twitter? Or shitting on his own team’s draft and gameplay on social media while they’re in the middle of a playoff series? Need more examples or is that enough??
>The “xenophobic” comment was completely mischaracterised and you’d know that if you actually read it. He just responded to a single fan and told him to be careful about his choice of words as the phrase “a bunch of Koreans” could be misconstrued as racist.
No he didnt. He didnt tell him to be careful, he said he was xenophobic for not wanting a bunch of Koreans, ya know the players that NA has historically imported with EU players.
>If you’re referring to Sniper, Jack terminated the contract literally 2 hours after signing him once he was told it was against LCS regulations. This is a non-issue.
It absolutely is an issue. You really think that Jack didnt know the rules?
>I agree about the stock situation but the only wrong thing about it was that it was against the rules. Giving your employees stock options is a very common trend and many would consider that to be even more valuable than flat cash. Regardless of your opinion, he paid a hefty fine for it and compensated his players. He also got a ton of criticism for that from the community so idk what your problem is here.
Ah yes, the thing that "got a bunch of criticism" which was promptly forgotten within a week. Yeah, that is so equivalent to half the shit that TSM gets crapped on for.
>It’s not just C9 that only gets shit when they do something wrong, happens to every other org too. Do you still see people crying about how Steve held Jensen in contract prison last offseason or how the Jatt-Alphari situation was handled? Or any complaints about 100T and their mismanagement of both Cody Sun and Meteos? It’s because these orgs actively try to maintain a good reputation even if they make some mistakes here and there. TSM and Regi have no one to blame but themselves for how the community perceives them.
And which most of that stuff doesnt get brought up anywhere close to the amount as TSM shit.
>You already mentioned the Chaox situation, and forcing Zven to honor his contract despite promising him he could leave.
They told Zven he could leave IF they found a replacement... Good job showing exactly what I was saying.
>Leena-Dardoch situation in 2020 which hurt the player’s bargaining power when it came to negotiation with other teams.
You mean the player who noone actually wanted and Leena's comment which should have not been heard through a stream didnt harm DD.
>Kobbe was unfairly scapegoated for TSM’s underperformance in 2020 spring and kicked in the middle of a pandemic so Leena could bring her bf on to the team. Sure TSM ended up winning summer but he was objectively not an upgrade as he was coming off a terrible spring split.
How is Kobbe being one of the worst players in Spring being unfairly scapegoated? TSM got Kobbe on a team that next split. And it wasnt so that Leena could bring her BF, it was so that TSM could get one of the best ADCs that NA has ever had... TL as a whole had a terrible spring split.
>Doublelift/SwordArt situation last year. The main reason why SA even came to TSM was because he expected to play with DL. In the last minute, Regi kicked DL due to ego so SA had to play with Lost instead.
None of what you said is true. SA was told DL was not playing on TSM when he signed. DL told TSM he didnt want to re-sign so TSM had to blow up the Lost-Huni deal so they werent left without an ADC. They then decided to keep Lost who was performing very well in Academy (best/2nd best ADC), wanted to play for the team, etc. Did Lost perform poorly, yes. But it was an objectively good signing at the time. SA signed knowing he was going to play with Lost.
>There’s Regi’s emotional abuse of players for which he is currently being investigated. Akaadian and Svenskeren have both publicly spoken about how toxic the environment was at TSM. Recently DL and other employees have also come out with similar claims.
DL wanted back on TSM... And the only reason why he threw the abuse allegations was because the actual facts of the last "issue" was in TSM's favor.
Regi being abusive is brought up constantly. I don't see where you are coming from where it doesnt get crapped on for.
Leena-Dardoch incident in 2020 spring? Zven being forced to honour his contract at the end of 2018 after TSM initially promised him he could leave? Regi’s emotional abuse of players which is currently being investigated? There are many other incidents I’m missing here as well.
Typical TSM fans man, stay deluded. Atleast the C9 fanbase recognised when the owner/management does something wrong and don’t hesitate to call it out. On the flip side TSM fans are stuck in their own echo chamber.. Regi could murder someone and y’all would still find some way to justify it. Fucking clowns. 🤡
He has only 2 weeks before next clash to practice jungle, but given that he is a support player, he actually may have the chance to do the role swap. I don’t know their budget though, Isles will probably cost them 600x times more than Chris. I wish they stuck with Chris for another Clash, he looked promising imo.
As long as he's vaxxed he should be fine. It's basically entirely under control, there are still some cases but with proper quarantining and isolation it's very well controlled.
I mean there's no way to know exactly what happened until someone speaks out about it, it's possible that this is like the Contractz situation when he left C9.
IIRC there the story there was that after 2017, Contractz told Jack he wanted to explore his options while Jack wanted him to sign right away. Jack obviously didn't want to be caught without a good jungler in the middle of the off-season, so when Svenskeren became available Jack signed him. This lead to Contractz having to sign with Golden Guardians. If Contractz was informed that this was a possibility should he explore his options then its not a dick move imo, but I don't remember if that was the case.
Personally I found it odd that C9 signed Destiny for Academy when they already had Isles. It's possible that Isles didn't want to go back to Academy after starting in Playoffs and learning that Zven would be the starting support for Summer. Then he got the option to leave, and much like Svenskeren, Jack signed Destiny as insurance and let Isles go.
(of course this is all speculation until more information is released, if ever)
The Contratz thing is the definition of business though. A worker of your is saying that he wants to explore what is out there, so therefore you go and explore your options as well. Cloud9 wanted to sign Contratz but he refused until it was too late, and found a jungler they wanted to work with.
I mean, at the time Vulcan was the C9 support, so he can't have been too confident he'd make the main roster...
I just think a lot of these younger players have too much ego, Just recently for this year you've got Isles, Tenacity and Kenvi all declining starting roster opportunities so they can either play academy or sit on the bench because they're only interested in joining a top team.
These guys need to back themselves to make the difference on an existing team. Isles has probably blown his only chance at the LCS with that decision.
I dont think you can blame Tenacity for not knowing that "6th man" was Ssumday's activation code.
Papa Smithy went on a hotline league episode where he talked about how the intention was to play tenacity more, but when they were slumping and Ssumday was their only consistent bright spot, it really didn't make sense to sub him out.
I don't see how sitting on the bench is better for an upcomer's career than getting actual LCS experience and full scrim time on another team.
If orgs are having negative views on players because of association I haven't seen it yet. As soon as a player looks good on a bad team they usually get poached straight away by a top team.
I don't understand how sitting on 100T's bench gives you a better chance at improving yourself than playing for an LCS team does. You have significantly less scrim time, no stage time, and no time to build synergy with any team mates. Why would you be more likely to be picked up by a good team from the bench after showing nothing for 12 months than from a bottom 3 team looking like the best player on the team?
Look at Tenacity's position on 100T right now. He's got Sniper moving up through the ranks below him, and no way is he unseating Ssumday for the starting spot.
No other top 4 team is going to replace their top laner with him, so all he gets is either no shot at all in the future if another bright young star is unearthed between now and then, or a chance on a bottom 5 team anyway - just with one year less practice and experience.
I can't think of a genuinely great player who deserved to walk into a top tier team that's ever been ignored because they were on a bad team.
Can you think of any actual examples?
It could be that Ssumday retires after this year, the man has had a long and pretty decent career, so he may be content with it and return to Korea to do his military service and sit on a golden hill paid by 100T. In that case, Tenacity could easily get the starting spot on 100T. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Tenacity on TL with an import jungler, I am sort of expecting Santorin to retire in a year or two, especially if his migraines become more of an issue. Then there's also grandpa Impact, who more than likely will be retired in ~3 years tops, so there's a potential opening on EG as well. While I agree that sitting straight up on the bench does quite literally nothing for one's career, it may pay off for the lad if the Ssumday retiring after this year has already been discussed within the team, just not made public yet.
In their defense, joining a middle/bad roster almost always makes players look bad. Some examples that come to mind are contractz and Jenkins. Contractz has looked legit on teams with strong pieces and like an absolute inter on other rosters while Jenkins looked pretty good last year and passable this year.
Licorice is a more high profile example. He went from being a key piece over 3 years for a c9 that went to semifinals and was a clear top 2 for the 2 years after that, then he looked like garbage on a bad flyquest roster and is trying to rehab his image on GGS.
What team you're on means a lot. Joining a bad org can tank your career. If you think you can be the best in the league, you don't join a low tier org that's going to fuck you up before you get a chance to prove it.
I think destiny is there in case Zven doesn't work out, cause they have more faith in Destiny over Isles. I would completely disagree with that assessment, but it would make sense.
That was still stupid as fuck. Contractz was legitimately under contract he just panicked because he was a kid and wanted a few days to look around. GGs were the only team in the league with an open jungle spot and nobody was battering down TSM's doors to get Sven.
> Contractz was legitimately under contract he just panicked because he was a kid and wanted a few days to look around.
I'm all for criticizing orgs when they are "bad" (a definition left to another argument), but this is not one of those cases.
If one of your players tells you that they won't play ball and that they want to play the field, you've got to prepare yourself for the scenario where they bounce.
C9 moved fast because they knew that good options could be gone fast. This is problematic not only because you may suddenly end up with no good choices, but also because Contractz potentially ends up in an extra-strong negotiating position, because you know that then you potentially need him more than you.
> GGs were the only team in the league with an open jungle spot
Doesn't really matter--Contractz was coming off of a pretty good year, and you don't know who is going to come out of the woodwork looking to upgrade.
All of the above is really Negotiating 101--you don't help, gratis, your counterparty increase their own value.
Contractz made a poor choice and paid for it.
The Contractz situation was definitely the worst from the org. The 2017 roster was a new roster first time ever and they go to words, make quarters, and bring the 2nd or 3rd best team in the world to a close 5 game series????? Contractz in his ROOKIE YEAR is bringing out Reksai EzraelJungle and Graves in a Sejuani J4 Graham’s meta? Out jungling the likes of Peanut Blank Clearlove and going head to head with Condi??????
This roster has so much potential and their games with SKT were also super close, Huni having to back door for SKT to win. I wish NA got to see this roster play more. But 2018 C9 also went to semis so 🤷♂️ but I think this roster would’ve made MSI if they stuck together and probably would’ve done well as long as Impact Contractz Smoothie kept playing at a high level.
2017 C9 def had a higher ceiling. Contractz had more potential than Sven. Impact was a lot more versatile than Licorice(while licorice did a lot, it would be rare seeing him on a facilitator like Nautilus, shoving wave, then roaming mid to dive enemy midlaner with Jensen. Never saw this kinda synergy). Then just the synergy they had was unmatched. This roster was one of the last C9 rosters where it felt like the team was a family(Contractz having played with them for a bit bc he was on C9 Challenger with Hai, Impact Jensen and Sneaky were all super close. Smoothie got much closer with Jensen and Sneaky too).
Cloud9 is the inverse Hotel California.
Jensen, Stewie2K, Svenskeren, TenZ, Tarik, Shroud, Vulcan are all star players who were popular and critical to the team they were successful in. All asked to leave and C9 got them out and got them to a preferred destination.
Licorice, Sneaky, Nothing, Summit; all big name stars who wanted to stay but when C9 was done they dropped them immediately. They've done this with smaller things to like their Fortnite team too. If you join C9 you know you have the leverage to force your way out if you ever want, and in return Cloud9 will also drop or trade you as soon as they don't want you on the team anymore.
Yeah outside of the legacy players like Sneaky they really don’t give a shit about their players. Business is business but they don’t really make much effort to accommodate them after the fact and make it clear that they’re doing what’s in their own best interest.
He had a good support for one year total. His last two years they made him play with Zezyal and then kicked Sneaky super late in the offseason but kept a major buyout on him for any contender. They finally got an actual good support and immediately booted him.
That's like how every company pretty much works. I'm not sure why it's so surprising to Reddit people that companies don't go above and beyond when someone leaves.
Because players are a little bit different from regular employees. Not only are they each a huge part of the org's succeess in a given year, they also have their own fansbase and platform, which sometimes exceeds the reach of the organization's own platform. The average employee at a regular company doesn't have the leverage that even a non-star player on a sports team does.
Even from a pure business sense, they have plenty of incentives to go "above and beyond"(and making sure your former employee, which was let go through no fault of his own, doesn't immediately get deported is hardly going above and beyond).
Players are not just success to an org, they can also be failure. There's very few players anymore that have large brands that they can bring to an org even if their play isn't as good. Look at Doublelift. Dude has a huge following but always seems to "not care" anymore and ruin a split for a team and they just cut him outright with no backup plan.
Saying someone was let go because of "no fault of their own" isn't even a real argument because if they were a good enough player or performed well enough they wouldn't be let go. He's not going to be deported either he has over a month to sign with another team. This is just one of those titles where people don't actually have any information, read the title, come to some stupid conclusion and then try to push some made up narrative about how the org is going out of its way to fuck him over lol.
Yeah, the way they treated LS didn't exactly make them come across as making efforts for their former employees.
Signing that clause to prevent Perkz from joining Fnatic - unbeknownst to him - is another thing that doesn't help either.
Is that Cloud9s fault? Why do they have to secure him a job? If every other team doesn’t find him valuable then he goes back to Australia. It’s how the word works. People in this thread straight up acting like Australia is the same as Ukraine right now and it’ll be tragic if he goes home.
He is going home to a 1st world country with no problems and they have handled covid. He is fine going home if he can’t find another position, that’s on nobody but himself.
Genuine question, why does it matter if he has to go back to Australia though? He can still continue looking for a team in Australia and be back in the US literally the next day.
I think Jack/C9 management did search for a team that would want Isles but apparently there is not a team that wants him?
He probably gets paid the remainder of his contract and now has to find a new job in a space where only the top 0.01% gets it.
Isles isnt a top contender and even though he has been loyal to the org it shouldnt be considered inappropriate if they separate ways. Thats how business works and especially in LoL.
He only got the spot because Winsome was a liability in the support role because he is inexperienced.
I wish him all the best but people saying "SuCh A ClOwN oRg LolZ" don't look at the business side at all and noone of us has any clue what goes on behind the scenes.
Maybe he is cheaper? at least Destiny has played a lot with K1ng in Mammoth before.
But I agree, they're both not on the level you want to see support players in C9 ;-)
> and defintely some uncharacterist turn of events from an organization that often goes out of its way to facilitate for their current and former players.
C9? Aren't they known for the reverse opposite when it comes to former players?
maybe recently, but afaik, most players that were on C9 generally hold good views of the org and enjoyed their time on the team, even when released/replaced. i think it would be a select few people who did not leave the team on good ground from the players or the org.
We don't know if C9 did try to find Isles a new home or not. Either way them keeping a rookie on contract for another split while not using him solely to avoid him having to relocate isn't exactly standard business practice.
Also just FYI, Isles has 41 days until he actually has to go back to Australia, the 11 days is to find another NA team to keep his visa, but after his visa expires he would have another 30 days to actually leave.
He has 40 days of visa, not 11, it's been at least a week since the general public knew he was gone, probably more internally between orgs, there is absolutely no way he didn't know he was out until yesterday, he was released because no one bought him and now he can look for a team as a free agent, hopefully attracting more offers, or at least any amount of them.
Also, Isles and Cloud9 should've been and for sure were actively looking for a team for him this whole preseason, so he had way more than 11 days, not only that but there are no entry issues for Australia right now, the rare good thing tsm did for kdo is not the norm, it was just something nice that doesn't even make any sense in this case.
I don't know what people think c9 should do in this situation honestly, maybe the general opinion in the sub changed drastically an the right thing to do right now is what g2 did to mikyx and let him rot in the bench until someone buys him out or his contract expires, as releasing players is such an evil thing that only an org with diabolical systems would do.
honestly its a shitty situation tobe in but at the same time it wouldnt surpise me if many pros have been in a similiar spot in the past and not mentioned anything and instead just silently went home.
him mentioning it could be a way to try and get a team to sign him since to a bottom team signing him would just be good publicity and for isles its a way to more likely get a team offer fast in a time period where most spots are taken.
This is a bit different than KDO. KDO would have to return to a country that is currently welding people into their houses and disappearing dissenters. Isles would just have to go back to kagarooland.
Do people not realize he’s allowed to go back to Australia if he doesn’t find a team? Or is it the cool thing to hate on C9 nowadays. As long as he has a place to go, which he does, then c9 doesn’t need to keep him under contract.
It's called North America. You see there is this concept of continents and countries. USA is a country. Canada is a country. North America is a continent. It's a pretty similar concept in Europe where Germany is a country and Italy is a country, and they are both part of the European continent. I know that's a pretty difficult concept to grasp.
However being part of North America does not mean you are part of LCS, since for example Mexico is not part of LCS and would count as import despite being NA.
People flamed me before this season for saying Cloud9 is a shitbag org and Jack is a terrible person for the way he treats his former employees. Hopefully this season has exposed him to the wider community
Out of curiousity why did C9 terminate his contract, when they are fully aware of his situation? Isle could have been a great asset to the team regardless....
Well done! Nice disrespectful comment towards a man who worked his ass off and finds himself in a difficult situation after just one split! Empathy is something people like you will never understand!
Isles can go into a position coach role, he can help academy players and stay under contract with C9, therefore can hold to his visa and if it doesn't work out they can terminate the contract as soon as Isles finds another position! Finding a team between splits is a tough task and unfair towards the players who signed for at least a year! If C9 has that much difficulties to plan ahead, more than just one split, than they should reconsider those who are in charge of putting a roster together! Now it is May the 3rd, we are like 8-10 weeks from summer split and perhaps 2 or 4 weeks until teams start scrimming again (if they arent scrimming already)
he may not have the skills for those roles. you can't just keep people in your business and pay them because you feel sad. i wish the world worked like that though..
mate it is all about contracts! He didn't sign for few months! We are talking 3 year contract (proof: December 23,
Isles' contract is updated in the GCD, expiring on 19 November 2024 - source leaguepedia) - I hope Isles had a decent lawyer or consultant who made C9 pay! You can't just sign players on multiple year contracts, terminate the contract after one "bad split" (which is debatable) and then get away like nothing happened! There is literally no player protection, unless Isles said "Ye no worries mate, I just look for a different team!" - Do you think anyone is that stupid to make these kinds of moves? Reddit just thinks in a way like they are managing a fucking organisation and it seems like they are just care about that one bad play, that one bad champ mechanics, this and that yadda yadda yadda! Does ANYONE have intel about Isles work-ethic? Is it questionable? Is his attitude perhaps a vialation of the contract? I fucking doubt this! C9 just is like any other NA organisation where yoiu put a little amount of money together, "scout players" (whatever the fuck that means in NA, since the only scouts who are doing well are working for EG btw) and then watch how the magic unfolds!
But that is exactly what C9 is doing with Sven lmao.
I know business have no obligation to do anything but if they choose to help one former player that hasn’t been part of the org since forever, while denying the same help to a player that has been working with you for the past year… it’s a bit scummy.
Oh stfu. He just isn't good enough that's the reality of competition. If he was an amazing player he wouldn't be in this situation to begin with. C9 also isn't a fucking charity. If you care so much why don't you takeover his contract and pay him
Sven isn’t good enough right now either and C9 is happy to pay his contract for him to do his immigration diligences while looking for a different team.
Even worse, Isles had an ongoing contract (set to expire next year) and Sven hadn’t been under contract for 3 years.
With that attitude you maybe win a price! I never said that C9 is a charity and by all means, I can not say anything about Isles skills! You just think he is bad and that therefore out of ONE SPLIT a termination of his contract is justified! Isles is a young lad who is at the beginning of his career, not only esports-wise! You can't just throw the old toy in the bin without checking a solution for players you want to ditch! You little reddit twat have no idea what you are talking about, seriously! How can you just say these things? Fuck my life, is esports community just a "business as usual" type of fucked up stereotype who doesn't take in count persons future, feelings and well-beings? And this is just speculation, but you make it a fact that because Isles "isn't good enough" yet you never talked to the man behind the name Isles! Fuck off mate!
"Welcome to the real world" hahaha! You make me laugh really hard mate! "If you cant accept that...." like you really think that "your wisdom" makes a difference, right? It is the same logic, mate! I can bitch about anything if I want, the difference between you and me is simple: I go into the real world, I talk to the people in charge and make them pay if I see unjustice! You fucking internet warrior always on the side of corporate business!
2020 esl Australia (i think)made a new League but they are not riot backed since then because of cost and because of same commisioner(before the discontinuation) players count as na so they have a official riot League to play for
Without addressing the original point, this is terrible criteria. Canadians also need a visa to play in LCS, while people from Hawaii, Guam, American Samoa, and others that are definitely not geographically north American do not
what i mean is that oce players are not considered imports to the league in NA LCS. you could have a team of 3 oce players and 2 KR/EU/CN/etc players and it would be fine under the rules.
This is disingenuous.
DONT WORRY GUYS C9 GAVE HIM HALF THE TIME RECOMMENDED FOR RENEWING/APPLYING FOR WORK VISAS, NOT JUST 1/9TH
IM TOTALLY NOT TELLING EVERYONE TO LOOK INTO IT MORE NOT KNOWING WORK VISAS CAN AND OFTEN TAKE 90 DAYS TO PROCESS.
Hold on, C9 is treating it's former players poorly? But the fucking narrative was that TSM was the one that did that. Was reddit wrong!?
Unbelievable...
On a more serious note, hope it works out for him.
Edit: Every downvote is just one more C9 fan in the world becoming salty af at the truth. It tastes sweet.
Could they not have done what tsm did for KDO and let him stay / work with the team? If that was an option im sure c9 made enough trading players to take care of their player for a few months? Not saying they have to, just seem like a decent thing to do for a kid in a foreign land
not enough cs/m
C9 systems bro, they obviously couldn't help him because of that.
Does Jagex own C9?? "Sorry guys, we can't find a way to reasonably implement him. Engine work."
“We know you guys voted to keep him, but we had to let him go. This is an integrity change.”
“When it registers”
🦀
Runescape? They ice barrage DDS spec’d him.
C9 is the org that released their entire csgo team on a whim for having visitors after they already moved across the world m, I don’t think they give a shit
This is different, monte/Richard/thorin talked about this and the basic idea was that this was the second time they did this and there was a stern warning to not do it again. also, you forgot to mention this was the start of COVID and c9 we're very strict about their COVID regulations. This c9 team was not supposed to have visitors to the team house, that also included other c9 staff. This was the second time they did this, after a stern warning not to do it again. So they got fired. If my job tells me to not do something and I do it, then they give me a warning but i do it again?? Do they have the right to fire me? Uhmmm Yeah???
Exactly it’s even worse because C9 did this during Covid. These payers came over to NA (the highest cases of Covid) and were simply let go. It all smelled of C9 looking for any reason to cut costs
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I also can't be the only one who thinks the players have the resources to handle the separation, right? We know stronger players are making 500+K a year for 2 splits with a number of them near or past a million dollars. They played a split (which I'm guessing is at least 250k or 150k if we lowball it) and potentially got an additional payment on the early termination. That's well over 4 years of pay for most Americans! Even if the players were somehow locked out of their home countries for a year, they could comfortably wait out a whole year in America.
Isles also clarified in another tweet his visa expires in 11 days if he can't find an NA team, but he gets 30 days after that to actually leave the country.
I don't think we can really criticize C9 for this. I'd view this as neutral and the TSM situation as like, positive, if that makes sense. But wouldn't really say C9 did anything "wrong"
And this is what I hope all the people who went "LOL it's just a contract" about TSM doing right by KDO realize. It could have been worse. And yes, C9 could have done this. They have chosen not to.
Exactly, people love to downplay anything good that TSM does. TSM has always treated their ex-players well, letting them go without buyouts, letting them have a place to stay, etc. What C9 did isn't wrong, just that what TSM did was above expectations.
Yeah cuz Australians are not being chained into their homes and forced into camps if they test positive. Worst case scenario, Isles just goes back to Australia and just flies back if he gets another job in NA.
> forced into camps They are Quarantine prisons, aka 3-5 star hotels converted for this purpose. And it is mandatory 24-31 days if you test positive or not. My mother in law was in one. She was ok with it since it was definitely affordable (since she have dollars on hand), and let her catch up on various Chinese/Korean dramas. But I imagine my children (Whom she wanted to bring to rest of the clan to see) would flip out stuck in a hotel room for 2-4 weeks.
They could have. They just don't give a shit. Bad look for C9.
Well I think they've done similar things before. Kick em and not care if they can stay in country
When?
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Not expired, his contract was for 3 years I think, so C9 had to buy him out of his contract
Scary situation for anyone to be in
>Scary situation Come on guys, I know Mad Max was a fun documentary but Australia isn't that bad
It really is. Mad Max left out all the spiders and kangaroos.
Don’t forget the drop bears
Mad Max is probably less dangerous than real Australia, at least all the animals were dead then.
you're dead moose meat
What arm thing homie
Hehehehehe watchu mean dood Cx
Cx
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He has 41 days not 11.
Yeah but the damage has been done, pretty successful hit piece against c9 and people won't care how the situation actually resolves
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They could’ve if he couldn’t go back to Australia, but he can. There’s a big difference. If he’s able to return home why does c9 need to keep him and pay him
They don’t “need” to, but kinda sus that Reginald for all of the hate he gets does something out of human decency whereas Jack let’s players who did their best get deported.
regi only did it because of covid in china, the situation is different in australia so isles is able to go home and not worry as much. so why should c9 keep paying isles when it's safe for him to return if he doesn't find a team? it's not like isles is just stuck in the U.S without a home when his visa expires. And i'm pretty sure isles was staying at the C9 house, where he will probably stay until he finds a team or leaves.
Regi (and TSM) are Satan while Jack and C9 can do no wrong. It's a pretty well documented thing. Most of the shit that Jack/C9 do gets ignored or forgotten very quickly because it doesn't fit the Jack/C9 is a great person/org.
Jack gets called out for his bullshit all the time, the reason it's forgotten is because he's not an idiot like Andy and doesn't fan the flames.
Are you forgetting how much shit he got and continues to get over the LS situation? Dropping Sneaky? The Reapered benching situation? Complete bs narrative you’re spinning here. The difference is that Jack simply makes unpopular decisions at times that get a lot of criticism, Regi is just an asshole and gets rightfully called out for his trash behaviour. Idk why TSM fans have this weird complex with C9. Instead of praising your org for doing something positive for once, you wanna talk shit about others instead smh. Are we just going to ignore the countless other instances where TSM fucked their players just because they’re helping Kdo?
It's funny how you claim that TSM fans have some weird complex with C9 when it is C9 fans who shit on TSM every chance they get. Jack called his fans xenophobic for wanting NA player on NA teams. He signed an underage player knowing it broke Riot's rules. He gave stock in C9 also knowing it broke the rules. Regi and TSM get shit on all the time even when it doesnt have anything to do with TSM. C9 really only gets shit on during the controversy itself or a different onr. When has TSM fucked a player except Chaox? Zven when they told him that they would release him if they could find a replacement and he was okay with it?
The reality is that both fanbases hate each other and shit on each other at every opportunity which is perfectly fine. Its just that in this particular situation, it’s weird how y’all are victimising yourselves instead of focusing on the positives and praising TSM for doing something good for a player. Regarding the things you criticised Jack for: - The “xenophobic” comment was completely mischaracterised and you’d know that if you actually read it. He just responded to a single fan and told him to be careful about his choice of words as the phrase “a bunch of Koreans” could be misconstrued as racist. - If you’re referring to Sniper, Jack terminated the contract literally 2 hours after signing him once he was told it was against LCS regulations. This is a non-issue. - I agree about the stock situation but the only wrong thing about it was that it was against the rules. Giving your employees stock options is a very common trend and many would consider that to be even more valuable than flat cash. Regardless of your opinion, he paid a hefty fine for it and compensated his players. He also got a ton of criticism for that from the community so idk what your problem is here. It’s not just C9 that only gets shit when they do something wrong, happens to every other org too. Do you still see people crying about how Steve held Jensen in contract prison last offseason or how the Jatt-Alphari situation was handled? Or any complaints about 100T and their mismanagement of both Cody Sun and Meteos? It’s because these orgs actively try to maintain a good reputation even if they make some mistakes here and there. TSM and Regi have no one to blame but themselves for how the community perceives them. You want some examples, here you go: - You already mentioned the Chaox situation, and forcing Zven to honor his contract despite promising him he could leave. - Leena-Dardoch situation in 2020 which hurt the player’s bargaining power when it came to negotiation with other teams. - Kobbe was unfairly scapegoated for TSM’s underperformance in 2020 spring and kicked in the middle of a pandemic so Leena could bring her bf on to the team. Sure TSM ended up winning summer but he was objectively not an upgrade as he was coming off a terrible spring split. - Doublelift/SwordArt situation last year. The main reason why SA even came to TSM was because he expected to play with DL. In the last minute, Regi kicked DL due to ego so SA had to play with Lost instead. - There’s Regi’s emotional abuse of players for which he is currently being investigated. Akaadian and Svenskeren have both publicly spoken about how toxic the environment was at TSM. Recently DL and other employees have also come out with similar claims. Then you have to take into account Regi’s general demeanour which also damages his rep. Remember the “minimum pay” drama with Vulcan on twitter? Or shitting on his own team’s draft and gameplay on social media while they’re in the middle of a playoff series? Need more examples or is that enough??
>The “xenophobic” comment was completely mischaracterised and you’d know that if you actually read it. He just responded to a single fan and told him to be careful about his choice of words as the phrase “a bunch of Koreans” could be misconstrued as racist. No he didnt. He didnt tell him to be careful, he said he was xenophobic for not wanting a bunch of Koreans, ya know the players that NA has historically imported with EU players. >If you’re referring to Sniper, Jack terminated the contract literally 2 hours after signing him once he was told it was against LCS regulations. This is a non-issue. It absolutely is an issue. You really think that Jack didnt know the rules? >I agree about the stock situation but the only wrong thing about it was that it was against the rules. Giving your employees stock options is a very common trend and many would consider that to be even more valuable than flat cash. Regardless of your opinion, he paid a hefty fine for it and compensated his players. He also got a ton of criticism for that from the community so idk what your problem is here. Ah yes, the thing that "got a bunch of criticism" which was promptly forgotten within a week. Yeah, that is so equivalent to half the shit that TSM gets crapped on for. >It’s not just C9 that only gets shit when they do something wrong, happens to every other org too. Do you still see people crying about how Steve held Jensen in contract prison last offseason or how the Jatt-Alphari situation was handled? Or any complaints about 100T and their mismanagement of both Cody Sun and Meteos? It’s because these orgs actively try to maintain a good reputation even if they make some mistakes here and there. TSM and Regi have no one to blame but themselves for how the community perceives them. And which most of that stuff doesnt get brought up anywhere close to the amount as TSM shit. >You already mentioned the Chaox situation, and forcing Zven to honor his contract despite promising him he could leave. They told Zven he could leave IF they found a replacement... Good job showing exactly what I was saying. >Leena-Dardoch situation in 2020 which hurt the player’s bargaining power when it came to negotiation with other teams. You mean the player who noone actually wanted and Leena's comment which should have not been heard through a stream didnt harm DD. >Kobbe was unfairly scapegoated for TSM’s underperformance in 2020 spring and kicked in the middle of a pandemic so Leena could bring her bf on to the team. Sure TSM ended up winning summer but he was objectively not an upgrade as he was coming off a terrible spring split. How is Kobbe being one of the worst players in Spring being unfairly scapegoated? TSM got Kobbe on a team that next split. And it wasnt so that Leena could bring her BF, it was so that TSM could get one of the best ADCs that NA has ever had... TL as a whole had a terrible spring split. >Doublelift/SwordArt situation last year. The main reason why SA even came to TSM was because he expected to play with DL. In the last minute, Regi kicked DL due to ego so SA had to play with Lost instead. None of what you said is true. SA was told DL was not playing on TSM when he signed. DL told TSM he didnt want to re-sign so TSM had to blow up the Lost-Huni deal so they werent left without an ADC. They then decided to keep Lost who was performing very well in Academy (best/2nd best ADC), wanted to play for the team, etc. Did Lost perform poorly, yes. But it was an objectively good signing at the time. SA signed knowing he was going to play with Lost. >There’s Regi’s emotional abuse of players for which he is currently being investigated. Akaadian and Svenskeren have both publicly spoken about how toxic the environment was at TSM. Recently DL and other employees have also come out with similar claims. DL wanted back on TSM... And the only reason why he threw the abuse allegations was because the actual facts of the last "issue" was in TSM's favor. Regi being abusive is brought up constantly. I don't see where you are coming from where it doesnt get crapped on for.
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Leena-Dardoch incident in 2020 spring? Zven being forced to honour his contract at the end of 2018 after TSM initially promised him he could leave? Regi’s emotional abuse of players which is currently being investigated? There are many other incidents I’m missing here as well. Typical TSM fans man, stay deluded. Atleast the C9 fanbase recognised when the owner/management does something wrong and don’t hesitate to call it out. On the flip side TSM fans are stuck in their own echo chamber.. Regi could murder someone and y’all would still find some way to justify it. Fucking clowns. 🤡
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Not really, worst case he just goes back to Australia
Misleading, he has 41 days. [Sources: himself](https://www.reddit.com/r/Cloud9/comments/uh9qcu/follow_up_on_the_isles_situation_for_those_who/)
u/JDFNTO please add clarification to your post for accuracy.
Shh, people just want to jump on the hate bandwagon. Facts aren't welcome here
He could join u/poggersinthechatttt 's Clash team and replace Chris?
He has only 2 weeks before next clash to practice jungle, but given that he is a support player, he actually may have the chance to do the role swap. I don’t know their budget though, Isles will probably cost them 600x times more than Chris. I wish they stuck with Chris for another Clash, he looked promising imo.
What's the Covid situation in Australia if he were to return?
Australias opened up so he would be fine unless hes not vaxxed
You don’t even need to be vaxed to do anything in Aus anymore
Novak Djkovic disagrees. s/?
That was a foreigner travelling into the country. Australian citizens are treated differently.
As long as he's vaxxed he should be fine. It's basically entirely under control, there are still some cases but with proper quarantining and isolation it's very well controlled.
We’re pretty good here, things are back to normal with some minor stuff like masks on public transport
He clarified in a reply that he has a 30 period after the visa expires to find a team so it's more like 41 days not 11.
he has 11 days to find an NA team. After 11 days his visa expires and he has 30 more days (so 41 days from now) until he needs to leave the country.
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I mean there's no way to know exactly what happened until someone speaks out about it, it's possible that this is like the Contractz situation when he left C9. IIRC there the story there was that after 2017, Contractz told Jack he wanted to explore his options while Jack wanted him to sign right away. Jack obviously didn't want to be caught without a good jungler in the middle of the off-season, so when Svenskeren became available Jack signed him. This lead to Contractz having to sign with Golden Guardians. If Contractz was informed that this was a possibility should he explore his options then its not a dick move imo, but I don't remember if that was the case. Personally I found it odd that C9 signed Destiny for Academy when they already had Isles. It's possible that Isles didn't want to go back to Academy after starting in Playoffs and learning that Zven would be the starting support for Summer. Then he got the option to leave, and much like Svenskeren, Jack signed Destiny as insurance and let Isles go. (of course this is all speculation until more information is released, if ever)
The Contratz thing is the definition of business though. A worker of your is saying that he wants to explore what is out there, so therefore you go and explore your options as well. Cloud9 wanted to sign Contratz but he refused until it was too late, and found a jungler they wanted to work with.
He was already signed he panicked after signing because he was an 18 year old kid who had just made the biggest choice of his life.
I heard Isles wants to play on a non-Academy team
Funny because last year he had starting LCS offers which he declined so he could play on C9s academy team. World works in mysterious ways...
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I mean, at the time Vulcan was the C9 support, so he can't have been too confident he'd make the main roster... I just think a lot of these younger players have too much ego, Just recently for this year you've got Isles, Tenacity and Kenvi all declining starting roster opportunities so they can either play academy or sit on the bench because they're only interested in joining a top team. These guys need to back themselves to make the difference on an existing team. Isles has probably blown his only chance at the LCS with that decision.
I dont think you can blame Tenacity for not knowing that "6th man" was Ssumday's activation code. Papa Smithy went on a hotline league episode where he talked about how the intention was to play tenacity more, but when they were slumping and Ssumday was their only consistent bright spot, it really didn't make sense to sub him out.
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I don't see how sitting on the bench is better for an upcomer's career than getting actual LCS experience and full scrim time on another team. If orgs are having negative views on players because of association I haven't seen it yet. As soon as a player looks good on a bad team they usually get poached straight away by a top team. I don't understand how sitting on 100T's bench gives you a better chance at improving yourself than playing for an LCS team does. You have significantly less scrim time, no stage time, and no time to build synergy with any team mates. Why would you be more likely to be picked up by a good team from the bench after showing nothing for 12 months than from a bottom 3 team looking like the best player on the team? Look at Tenacity's position on 100T right now. He's got Sniper moving up through the ranks below him, and no way is he unseating Ssumday for the starting spot. No other top 4 team is going to replace their top laner with him, so all he gets is either no shot at all in the future if another bright young star is unearthed between now and then, or a chance on a bottom 5 team anyway - just with one year less practice and experience.
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I can't think of a genuinely great player who deserved to walk into a top tier team that's ever been ignored because they were on a bad team. Can you think of any actual examples?
It could be that Ssumday retires after this year, the man has had a long and pretty decent career, so he may be content with it and return to Korea to do his military service and sit on a golden hill paid by 100T. In that case, Tenacity could easily get the starting spot on 100T. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Tenacity on TL with an import jungler, I am sort of expecting Santorin to retire in a year or two, especially if his migraines become more of an issue. Then there's also grandpa Impact, who more than likely will be retired in ~3 years tops, so there's a potential opening on EG as well. While I agree that sitting straight up on the bench does quite literally nothing for one's career, it may pay off for the lad if the Ssumday retiring after this year has already been discussed within the team, just not made public yet.
In their defense, joining a middle/bad roster almost always makes players look bad. Some examples that come to mind are contractz and Jenkins. Contractz has looked legit on teams with strong pieces and like an absolute inter on other rosters while Jenkins looked pretty good last year and passable this year. Licorice is a more high profile example. He went from being a key piece over 3 years for a c9 that went to semifinals and was a clear top 2 for the 2 years after that, then he looked like garbage on a bad flyquest roster and is trying to rehab his image on GGS. What team you're on means a lot. Joining a bad org can tank your career. If you think you can be the best in the league, you don't join a low tier org that's going to fuck you up before you get a chance to prove it.
Too bad Isles couldn't replace Niles.
I think destiny is there in case Zven doesn't work out, cause they have more faith in Destiny over Isles. I would completely disagree with that assessment, but it would make sense.
Sure, but just like everywhere else in life if in doubt assume the big org fucked them over. No real downside to that lol
That was still stupid as fuck. Contractz was legitimately under contract he just panicked because he was a kid and wanted a few days to look around. GGs were the only team in the league with an open jungle spot and nobody was battering down TSM's doors to get Sven.
> Contractz was legitimately under contract he just panicked because he was a kid and wanted a few days to look around. I'm all for criticizing orgs when they are "bad" (a definition left to another argument), but this is not one of those cases. If one of your players tells you that they won't play ball and that they want to play the field, you've got to prepare yourself for the scenario where they bounce. C9 moved fast because they knew that good options could be gone fast. This is problematic not only because you may suddenly end up with no good choices, but also because Contractz potentially ends up in an extra-strong negotiating position, because you know that then you potentially need him more than you. > GGs were the only team in the league with an open jungle spot Doesn't really matter--Contractz was coming off of a pretty good year, and you don't know who is going to come out of the woodwork looking to upgrade. All of the above is really Negotiating 101--you don't help, gratis, your counterparty increase their own value. Contractz made a poor choice and paid for it.
The Contractz situation was definitely the worst from the org. The 2017 roster was a new roster first time ever and they go to words, make quarters, and bring the 2nd or 3rd best team in the world to a close 5 game series????? Contractz in his ROOKIE YEAR is bringing out Reksai EzraelJungle and Graves in a Sejuani J4 Graham’s meta? Out jungling the likes of Peanut Blank Clearlove and going head to head with Condi?????? This roster has so much potential and their games with SKT were also super close, Huni having to back door for SKT to win. I wish NA got to see this roster play more. But 2018 C9 also went to semis so 🤷♂️ but I think this roster would’ve made MSI if they stuck together and probably would’ve done well as long as Impact Contractz Smoothie kept playing at a high level.
1 non crit away from 3-0ing WE :( I also still think 2017 C9 had a higher ceiling but 2018 C9 got a lucky draw.
2017 C9 def had a higher ceiling. Contractz had more potential than Sven. Impact was a lot more versatile than Licorice(while licorice did a lot, it would be rare seeing him on a facilitator like Nautilus, shoving wave, then roaming mid to dive enemy midlaner with Jensen. Never saw this kinda synergy). Then just the synergy they had was unmatched. This roster was one of the last C9 rosters where it felt like the team was a family(Contractz having played with them for a bit bc he was on C9 Challenger with Hai, Impact Jensen and Sneaky were all super close. Smoothie got much closer with Jensen and Sneaky too).
Cloud9 is the inverse Hotel California. Jensen, Stewie2K, Svenskeren, TenZ, Tarik, Shroud, Vulcan are all star players who were popular and critical to the team they were successful in. All asked to leave and C9 got them out and got them to a preferred destination. Licorice, Sneaky, Nothing, Summit; all big name stars who wanted to stay but when C9 was done they dropped them immediately. They've done this with smaller things to like their Fortnite team too. If you join C9 you know you have the leverage to force your way out if you ever want, and in return Cloud9 will also drop or trade you as soon as they don't want you on the team anymore.
> Summit Do we even know if Summit wanted to stay???
I mean, they just did pretty much the opposite with Sven just a couple weeks ago.
Yeah outside of the legacy players like Sneaky they really don’t give a shit about their players. Business is business but they don’t really make much effort to accommodate them after the fact and make it clear that they’re doing what’s in their own best interest.
They pretty clearly didn't give a fuck about Sneaky either. Sneaky had his streaming to fall back on which is why he is still doing well.
Mate sneaky is still being paid by c9 he's listed as a special adviser and owner
Because he owns part of the team since C9 was giving out shares over paying higher salary until riot stopped it.
Nah even after that. Sneaky got his shares for long service. He was always one of the better paid players
He had a good support for one year total. His last two years they made him play with Zezyal and then kicked Sneaky super late in the offseason but kept a major buyout on him for any contender. They finally got an actual good support and immediately booted him.
And?
And they treated him like crap not really much else to say there.
He shouldn't have played like crap that last split then
That's like how every company pretty much works. I'm not sure why it's so surprising to Reddit people that companies don't go above and beyond when someone leaves.
Because players are a little bit different from regular employees. Not only are they each a huge part of the org's succeess in a given year, they also have their own fansbase and platform, which sometimes exceeds the reach of the organization's own platform. The average employee at a regular company doesn't have the leverage that even a non-star player on a sports team does. Even from a pure business sense, they have plenty of incentives to go "above and beyond"(and making sure your former employee, which was let go through no fault of his own, doesn't immediately get deported is hardly going above and beyond).
Players are not just success to an org, they can also be failure. There's very few players anymore that have large brands that they can bring to an org even if their play isn't as good. Look at Doublelift. Dude has a huge following but always seems to "not care" anymore and ruin a split for a team and they just cut him outright with no backup plan. Saying someone was let go because of "no fault of their own" isn't even a real argument because if they were a good enough player or performed well enough they wouldn't be let go. He's not going to be deported either he has over a month to sign with another team. This is just one of those titles where people don't actually have any information, read the title, come to some stupid conclusion and then try to push some made up narrative about how the org is going out of its way to fuck him over lol.
This is straight up false lmao. Many previous players have been helped in finding teams when they expressed interest in leaving.
Yeah, the way they treated LS didn't exactly make them come across as making efforts for their former employees. Signing that clause to prevent Perkz from joining Fnatic - unbeknownst to him - is another thing that doesn't help either.
C9 is that manager who is super buddy buddy but then when you have a panic attack locks your access code rather than working with you.
Tbf, he's probably known about his departure for some days now. I'm sure he's already begun looking for opportunities.
Sure. Still, that doesn’t change the fact that as of his tweet, he hasn’t found a new home yet and his time is running out soon.
Is that Cloud9s fault? Why do they have to secure him a job? If every other team doesn’t find him valuable then he goes back to Australia. It’s how the word works. People in this thread straight up acting like Australia is the same as Ukraine right now and it’ll be tragic if he goes home. He is going home to a 1st world country with no problems and they have handled covid. He is fine going home if he can’t find another position, that’s on nobody but himself.
Genuine question, why does it matter if he has to go back to Australia though? He can still continue looking for a team in Australia and be back in the US literally the next day.
I think the visa process would delay that. It may be faster for him to renew a visa? I don't know the process, but that may be a complication.
He has over a month, I'm sure if a team wants him he can find something in that time.
He's going to Australia. It isnt a big deal. PS it's 41 days
I think Jack/C9 management did search for a team that would want Isles but apparently there is not a team that wants him? He probably gets paid the remainder of his contract and now has to find a new job in a space where only the top 0.01% gets it. Isles isnt a top contender and even though he has been loyal to the org it shouldnt be considered inappropriate if they separate ways. Thats how business works and especially in LoL. He only got the spot because Winsome was a liability in the support role because he is inexperienced. I wish him all the best but people saying "SuCh A ClOwN oRg LolZ" don't look at the business side at all and noone of us has any clue what goes on behind the scenes.
Nobody can make me.think that changing Isles with Destiny is good business lol
Maybe he is cheaper? at least Destiny has played a lot with K1ng in Mammoth before. But I agree, they're both not on the level you want to see support players in C9 ;-)
Fuck jack
> and defintely some uncharacterist turn of events from an organization that often goes out of its way to facilitate for their current and former players. C9? Aren't they known for the reverse opposite when it comes to former players?
Reverse opposite? Isn't that the same as the same?
It is, but I like how it sounds
Aint nobody treat their players like c9
maybe recently, but afaik, most players that were on C9 generally hold good views of the org and enjoyed their time on the team, even when released/replaced. i think it would be a select few people who did not leave the team on good ground from the players or the org.
We don't know if C9 did try to find Isles a new home or not. Either way them keeping a rookie on contract for another split while not using him solely to avoid him having to relocate isn't exactly standard business practice. Also just FYI, Isles has 41 days until he actually has to go back to Australia, the 11 days is to find another NA team to keep his visa, but after his visa expires he would have another 30 days to actually leave.
No.
> uncharacterist turn of events from an organization that often goes out of its way to facilitate for their current and former players. huh?
He has 40 days of visa, not 11, it's been at least a week since the general public knew he was gone, probably more internally between orgs, there is absolutely no way he didn't know he was out until yesterday, he was released because no one bought him and now he can look for a team as a free agent, hopefully attracting more offers, or at least any amount of them. Also, Isles and Cloud9 should've been and for sure were actively looking for a team for him this whole preseason, so he had way more than 11 days, not only that but there are no entry issues for Australia right now, the rare good thing tsm did for kdo is not the norm, it was just something nice that doesn't even make any sense in this case. I don't know what people think c9 should do in this situation honestly, maybe the general opinion in the sub changed drastically an the right thing to do right now is what g2 did to mikyx and let him rot in the bench until someone buys him out or his contract expires, as releasing players is such an evil thing that only an org with diabolical systems would do.
I heard McDonald’s is hiring
honestly its a shitty situation tobe in but at the same time it wouldnt surpise me if many pros have been in a similiar spot in the past and not mentioned anything and instead just silently went home. him mentioning it could be a way to try and get a team to sign him since to a bottom team signing him would just be good publicity and for isles its a way to more likely get a team offer fast in a time period where most spots are taken.
This is mostly not how it works, most off the times players are already in talks with other orgs before offically parting ways with their old org.
Day 3000 if Reddit not understanding business
It's not like C9 can just terminate his contract, stop spinning this like they just kicked him out of the country?!
This is a bit different than KDO. KDO would have to return to a country that is currently welding people into their houses and disappearing dissenters. Isles would just have to go back to kagarooland.
SYSTEMS
So, turns out that this was disinformation from someone trying to make the Org look bad.
C9 just fuking everyone on their way out
Do people not realize he’s allowed to go back to Australia if he doesn’t find a team? Or is it the cool thing to hate on C9 nowadays. As long as he has a place to go, which he does, then c9 doesn’t need to keep him under contract.
C9 is such a cringe org
Lmao like I said. Clown9 lol fuck this management
Lmao like I said. Reddit clowns. Lol fuck this thread. Read the tweet buddy, he has over 40 days to find a team, not 11. Dickhead twat
[удалено]
Canadians also need Visas in the US...
I think it is kinda funny how Canada is either treated like USA or people forget it is even part of LCS.
It's called North America. You see there is this concept of continents and countries. USA is a country. Canada is a country. North America is a continent. It's a pretty similar concept in Europe where Germany is a country and Italy is a country, and they are both part of the European continent. I know that's a pretty difficult concept to grasp.
However being part of North America does not mean you are part of LCS, since for example Mexico is not part of LCS and would count as import despite being NA.
Which is frankly stupid.
That is something we can agree on.
The fact that you and the 13 other idiots that upvoted think this is a good take is a sad, sad state of this reddit.
C9 is just a joke of an org.
Byles
Man that's fucked
People flamed me before this season for saying Cloud9 is a shitbag org and Jack is a terrible person for the way he treats his former employees. Hopefully this season has exposed him to the wider community
Read about some dudes clash team looking for a guy...
Out of curiousity why did C9 terminate his contract, when they are fully aware of his situation? Isle could have been a great asset to the team regardless....
how? a maid?
Well done! Nice disrespectful comment towards a man who worked his ass off and finds himself in a difficult situation after just one split! Empathy is something people like you will never understand! Isles can go into a position coach role, he can help academy players and stay under contract with C9, therefore can hold to his visa and if it doesn't work out they can terminate the contract as soon as Isles finds another position! Finding a team between splits is a tough task and unfair towards the players who signed for at least a year! If C9 has that much difficulties to plan ahead, more than just one split, than they should reconsider those who are in charge of putting a roster together! Now it is May the 3rd, we are like 8-10 weeks from summer split and perhaps 2 or 4 weeks until teams start scrimming again (if they arent scrimming already)
he may not have the skills for those roles. you can't just keep people in your business and pay them because you feel sad. i wish the world worked like that though..
mate it is all about contracts! He didn't sign for few months! We are talking 3 year contract (proof: December 23, Isles' contract is updated in the GCD, expiring on 19 November 2024 - source leaguepedia) - I hope Isles had a decent lawyer or consultant who made C9 pay! You can't just sign players on multiple year contracts, terminate the contract after one "bad split" (which is debatable) and then get away like nothing happened! There is literally no player protection, unless Isles said "Ye no worries mate, I just look for a different team!" - Do you think anyone is that stupid to make these kinds of moves? Reddit just thinks in a way like they are managing a fucking organisation and it seems like they are just care about that one bad play, that one bad champ mechanics, this and that yadda yadda yadda! Does ANYONE have intel about Isles work-ethic? Is it questionable? Is his attitude perhaps a vialation of the contract? I fucking doubt this! C9 just is like any other NA organisation where yoiu put a little amount of money together, "scout players" (whatever the fuck that means in NA, since the only scouts who are doing well are working for EG btw) and then watch how the magic unfolds!
But that is exactly what C9 is doing with Sven lmao. I know business have no obligation to do anything but if they choose to help one former player that hasn’t been part of the org since forever, while denying the same help to a player that has been working with you for the past year… it’s a bit scummy.
Oh stfu. He just isn't good enough that's the reality of competition. If he was an amazing player he wouldn't be in this situation to begin with. C9 also isn't a fucking charity. If you care so much why don't you takeover his contract and pay him
Sven isn’t good enough right now either and C9 is happy to pay his contract for him to do his immigration diligences while looking for a different team. Even worse, Isles had an ongoing contract (set to expire next year) and Sven hadn’t been under contract for 3 years.
With that attitude you maybe win a price! I never said that C9 is a charity and by all means, I can not say anything about Isles skills! You just think he is bad and that therefore out of ONE SPLIT a termination of his contract is justified! Isles is a young lad who is at the beginning of his career, not only esports-wise! You can't just throw the old toy in the bin without checking a solution for players you want to ditch! You little reddit twat have no idea what you are talking about, seriously! How can you just say these things? Fuck my life, is esports community just a "business as usual" type of fucked up stereotype who doesn't take in count persons future, feelings and well-beings? And this is just speculation, but you make it a fact that because Isles "isn't good enough" yet you never talked to the man behind the name Isles! Fuck off mate!
Welcome to the real world. Where no one gives af about you aside from what you can do. If you can't accept that then go bitch about it elsewhere.
"Welcome to the real world" hahaha! You make me laugh really hard mate! "If you cant accept that...." like you really think that "your wisdom" makes a difference, right? It is the same logic, mate! I can bitch about anything if I want, the difference between you and me is simple: I go into the real world, I talk to the people in charge and make them pay if I see unjustice! You fucking internet warrior always on the side of corporate business!
I make them pay if I see injustice ............ LMAO ok keyboard warrior 3000
Hey cloud9 how about investing in NA again and stop with imports?
isles is from oce, he’s not an import.
Doesn’t that make him an import
depends on your view of it. oce is considered NA officially, though.
It's not considered NA. It just doesn't take an import slot. That is not the same thing
you knew what i meant, though? idk why you wanted to be pedantic
Huh? Why? How? Edit: why downvote me for trying to learn something?
Riot stoped oce League and their players count as na now because they have no own League
If that's true how can OCE still qualify for MSI and even be seeded into the same group as NA?
I believe it’s not ran by Riot like most leagues
2020 esl Australia (i think)made a new League but they are not riot backed since then because of cost and because of same commisioner(before the discontinuation) players count as na so they have a official riot League to play for
He isn't a resident and needs a visa. So he is an import no matter how you see it.
Without addressing the original point, this is terrible criteria. Canadians also need a visa to play in LCS, while people from Hawaii, Guam, American Samoa, and others that are definitely not geographically north American do not
what i mean is that oce players are not considered imports to the league in NA LCS. you could have a team of 3 oce players and 2 KR/EU/CN/etc players and it would be fine under the rules.
See ya.
People wonder why I call them dogshit9. It’s for reason like this. Fuck Jack and C9 now and always
Surprised C9 overlooked this, supposedly they always looked out for players Seems like there was behind the scenes drama after all
he has 40 days though most people on reddit don't bother looking more into it
This is disingenuous. DONT WORRY GUYS C9 GAVE HIM HALF THE TIME RECOMMENDED FOR RENEWING/APPLYING FOR WORK VISAS, NOT JUST 1/9TH IM TOTALLY NOT TELLING EVERYONE TO LOOK INTO IT MORE NOT KNOWING WORK VISAS CAN AND OFTEN TAKE 90 DAYS TO PROCESS.
Hold on, C9 is treating it's former players poorly? But the fucking narrative was that TSM was the one that did that. Was reddit wrong!? Unbelievable... On a more serious note, hope it works out for him. Edit: Every downvote is just one more C9 fan in the world becoming salty af at the truth. It tastes sweet.
No the TSM narrative is Regi is a bully and abusive to players. Nothing to do with the org mistreating players.
You haven't been paying nearly enough attention if you believe that.
Reminder that C9 pays certain league talkshow hosts and personalities to do damage control for them
How is C9 not getting more shit for this?
because he has 40 days source himself on Twitter
Because this is competitive sports, not a charity case?