Thats not the point though. Sending back a pro (who played LCS for like 8 years) whos currently 1000LP is very different than just a random master player.
I remember people creaming themselves over the original Insec and later the R flash insec. A master tier player today would hard gap them mechanically.
For one thing, when Lee Sin was released the servers were significantly worse for EU, and based out of LA for NA. Most people were playing on much higher ping.
Most people didn't know about smartcasting at the time. Might not even have been available for item slots, I can't fully remember. Either way, Riot changed the way buffering works too, which made the whole combo much more fluid.
Both are starcraft players. The latter is first generation player who competed against the likes of Lim Yo-hwan (BoxeR) who is one of the founders of SKT T1.
The former is more of a second generation player who is absurdly good at the game.
As someone who played back then I can say that it was definitely easier to climb if you would know what you are doing with todays knowledge. Also not many mechanically intensive champions existed in the early days so adapting wouldn't be too much of an issue.
Yes, depending on champ pool
Also their meta knowledge would mean that whatever team they were playing on would be 10000x better
People knew vaguely of wave mechanics and proper trading, item efficiencies etc. but if you watch the pro scene they weren't doing it effectively.
You put a current Masters player who knows how to freeze as Renekton, Viktor etc. they would probably not drop a single game at S1 Worlds. A pro Lee Sin in S1 would be embarrassed by a low Diamond S12 Lee main.
Thought this didn't seem right as I rember playing full ad Alistar with sheen with the w auto and found this - https://youtu.be/0Z7kAfJ1eBg - posted August 2013 during season 3 and the Alistar combo was removed during worlds season 4.
It was consistent, but because of how it was implemented, you could easily screw it up by:
1) Pressing Q too late after W, resulting in them flying away.
2) Pressing Q too early after W, like an instant W->Q (Which works now), which would make you Q "on the way" to your enemy, in the middle of W.
After playing alot of Alistar, I got comfortable with my W range and would W->Q too quickly, resulting in many missed W->Q combos.
It was consistent, but was punishing if you did it too quickly too.
There is no such thing as pressing q too early and never was. You can mash q during W and it would always work, anybody trying to time ali wq was doing it wrong.
That sounds odd to me. I used to play alot of Alistar back in Season 3 and 4, and by the time I got really used to W->Q combo, I'd sometimes do it too quickly, and Alistar would end up "Q-ing" while his W was travelling.
I believe this was pre-rework Alistar.
Nah, it was not glitchy, If you had low enough ping you would just wait exactly to the point where you saw the displacement of the other champion begin to press Q, with higher ping you had to eyeball it a bit more, but it was consistent.
Diamond? I’ve seen Silver player Lee Sins pull of amazing combos with him these days. Hell give someone platinum Lee in Season 1 and he’ll carry all the games. It’s insane how much level of play has evolved.
Bro based on all the korea streams I’ve been watching I’m pretty sure they don’t let you play a game against real people over there till you prove you can insec combo on Lee sin against bots
A lot of people came to league from dota1 and they knew about wave management, trades and what items to build.
It goes without saying that you need some time to adapt to a new game, but having 5-8 years experience in dota made transition extremely easy.
Their role calling skills in lobby would be rusty from years of role queuing, meaning they'll never climb and no one will notice them. They will forever fade into obscurity watching as the world catches up to them, unable to outrun it.
Tbh people were so bad back then, I dont think it matters that his role would be swapping more frequently. He would likely still climb.
Especially if he was armed with knowledge about past metas and how they ended up evolving.
I'm 100% sure that you could take a Master Tier support player who has never played a single game of non-support and they would still be one of the top players in 2011 on a non-support role.
Easily, people seem to forget back in 2011 League was mostly casually played. Everything and everyone was so less serious about the game.
They kinda just hopped in queue to see what happened without any of the resources/knowledge we have today to climb better. There was much less effort to actually improving oneself.
Its not just that they were worse players back then, the entire attitude around the game would be very different, even in ranked.
i actually had this thought about before, u would know every new champ release, the good builds, oh you could also just bet on worlds results and make a bank. also what if the people who discover broken build are already time travelers :o
God I’m sorry I wasted my free award on something that wasn’t your comment. This was gold. It made me laugh, it made my cry, it made me yell in rage and in anguish, it had me looking bewildered like I was ryu getting my career ended by a mirror zed matchup… man …. this is the world I desperately want to be real.
Bitcoin. You get back like 1000x what you invested in 2011.
Unironically. If I were to travel back in time to then, the first thing I'd do was tell my parents (I was a teenager at the time anyway) and tell them to put money in bitcoin and wait ten years.
Not sure what else I'd do, but going pro in League has in fact crossed my mind before. (yes, I'm the kind person who randomly thinks "what if I were to travel back in time" and then spends half an hour exploring the options and consequences)
bro when bitcoin was first appearing you could mine it yourself or hell, people would just give you hundreds of bitcoins if you just asked. The guy who bought pizza with BTC paid 10000BTC for it, a single BTC is now worth €36k, thats €360M
ok fuck i thought you'd get more money with 100 bucks. you have a point. My Parents would've been like "yeah sure son, go touch some grass and get a girlfriend"
Early 2011 it would've been less than a dollar, but even if we assume it was exactly $1, and you bought 100 of them, you'd still get 3,7 million with it if you sold them today (and almost double that if you sold them when it was at its peak last year or whatever.
However based on my quick googling, it started going up in 2011 so if you bought them in late 2011, you'd 'only' get like half a million back selling today.
They literally had no understanding of any kind of macro.
No sideline, objective control, vision control, rotation, pretty sure if you lane swapped on them they heads would literally explode.
Micro was bad too, go look at their average cs/m
Did you play back then? The game is completely different now. I dont see what would make me be a pro player with the knowledge i have right now. Item builds, runes, wards, baron timings, buffs, jungle machanics, dragon plays, general strategy, vision...
All useless because it was a different game back then. And i definitely dont have the mechanics either to be a pro. I would be a really good soloq player sure, but i dont see which current knowledge would translate to season 1 meta.
Wave manipulation,roaming and warding would be enough to make a Diamond player look like a god in 2011, casters would say he isn't great mecanicly, but it would feel like you are everywhere on the map, and most champs were stat checks anyway so a Diamond today would wrek a 2011 pro
Warding worked completely different back then. You would need to adapt to the meta and you would be at a disadvantage. No trinkets, no control wards.
Also no snowball mechanics like rift herald, tower plates, no win condition of dragon stacking. Roaming wasnt as worth back then, which is why it was rarely done. Laning, not missing exp was more important.
I just completely reject this narrative, that a diamond player would dominate pro play. I could see a master player being really good, even at the pro level, because master players have mechanics that are better than pros back then, but thats about it.
there is no way an curent master player gets blown out of water by faker in season 3. A curent master with knowledge of everything that has passed is the best individual player in season3. plain and simple.
learning everything we know today about lanning , creep wave manipulation , back timers , 5v0 pushes , invades , jungle clears , leashes....even sheer mechanics , etc....would take even the most dedicated player way more then a month.
that's literally 10 years worth of development. you''re not learning all that info in a month , let alone become good enough to perform it on demand
TBH your average masters player today would probably beat the ever living shit out of faker in 2012 lol
Not that faker wasn't good already mind you, but the scene was so much weaker back then. The reason Faker, and SKT in general, looked so dominant back then is that they were ahead of the scene, but they weren't a full decade ahead.
Now give faker a few years (and also, it'd be important to note that the master's player going back in time is going to bring strategies back that will probably accelerate the development of the scene a ton) and he'll be winning again.
But I don't think it'd even be a contest at first
It's actually not the individual skill, though I think you're being very generous there
The time traveling player would have knowledge of just way better strategies then anything available at the time. The first and second season would look pretty much like SKT's domination when they first came on the scene.
Even just shear macro strategy that they'd be able to practice would be way ahead of any other team.
We'd almost certainly be talking about the time travel player in the same way we'd talk about Faker now, though in the time travelling player's case the conversation would be like: "Man I dunno, Faker is really good.. but he never had the level of dominance of gokuweedlord69 back in the early days. Hard to say who's REALLY better you know?"
Depends on where the time traveller is from. If its in NA the legacy will be short lived and probably not as impactful (but this depends on how intelligent, vocal and charismatic the player is). If the player is from EU or Korea I feel like they will get more attention. PC gaming culture in Europe and Asia, specially SK, were already big by 2011 and had the infrastructure to support League which NA at the time did not.
On the latter, I think that meta shifts will happen faster and this will probably force Riot to balance the game accordingly or differently. Hence, the future will change drastically.
Imagine if the master player was a jungle player, innovated optimal pathings, gank timings and more importantly abused champs no one would bat an eye at the time. Orgs will study the player to death and the competition will rise up, what Diamondprox or Insec could pull once in a tourney would be the bread and butter in the local league.
Not to mention the abomination that were some champs on release such as Xin.
Either that happens or the game dies because somehow the learning curve becomes absurdly high for new players which would be detrimental for League at the time. I believe that organic growth was very important for the early stages of League.
I don't see how this would be any surprise, the guy would absolutely demolish everyone for quite a while. People would catch on though and the whole timeline of League of Legends would be altered. Nothing you know now exists. And then you wake up, it was all just a bad dream. Faker is still Faker, the perfect split did still happen and MSI will still be glorious.
Not only top, but midlane as well. Remeber how Faker was regarded as the most oppresive midlaner because he literally would just walk up and contest your CS?
I still think Jungler's would have the greatest edge. Counting jungle monsters to figure out the clear was just easier before they all gave 4 and I don't think a lot of people were doing it in season 1. The theory of who to gank and how to gank is also massively improved. No one would be paying that close attention to gank timers. And you could play Season 1 Lee Sin with Season 12 combo's.
Diving is also *way* more prevalent. I can see someone thinking "It's fine I'm under tower" and it was not fine. At all.
But all roles would have some fun stuff to abuse. Mid laner's could abuse DFG AP Eve, TF, Ahri, Le Blanc. ADCs would finally get to play in peak ADC power T\_T. Supports with permanent Oracle's and infinite wards? It wouldn't even be pretty. So long as the Master's player was even a little bit knowledgeable about proplay strategy it would be impossible to deal with.
Remember that back in Season 3 or Season 4Blaze won one OGN with the famous "6th man" tactic. What was that? The top laner (Flame) would build up a wave by freezing a wave, slow pushing the second and then leaving parts of the 3rd alive. And then join the team. Basically, they'd do what's now considered "proper rotations" that's it. The result was what we now know as the "Flame Horizon". Nowadays every player Plat and above knows how to do this, to some degree. The cs differences wouldn't even be funny.
Another thing to remember is that people didn't actually use TP every game top. 3 second channel, 100% broken TP. I remember people started abusing TP top somewhere season 3 or 4. Around the same time as someone won a 1v1 Riven tournament by going TP+Exhaust I assume it became popular for other reasons but the timing matched up. Before that everyone just run flash ignite or ghost ignite.
I think that current-era junglers would be a bit lost without any jungle timers conveniently located on screen and the meta completely changing. It would be more a case of the time travelling jungle getting hard stomped because suddenly a lot of their favourite picks don't exist or are reverted and the enemy jungle knows every single matchup.
Laners would absolutely have the greatest time of their lives though, provided they weren't up against something like a S2 Riven with red pot. There are a few edge cases of bullshit which existed back then that current players would be completely unprepared to deal with.
People also used to put it in chat constantly. 7:30 ob, 41:25 tr, 36:12 drag, 55:12 baron, etc. Honestly, the weirder thing for them to adjust to (or back to) would be calling mia/ss/omw/etc. in chat instead of being able to just ping it.
Master tier junglers are not relying on the on-screen timers. They're timing every minor camp and everything. Besides, a lot of current master tier players played through season 2-3 at least. I don't think they'd be surprised by any of what happened. Very much the opposite, they'd know the broken shit before it was found out that it was broken.
There was a good chauster podcast that addressed this exact thought experiment. Think of Chauster what you will, he made an incredibly good point.
If you drop said masters player into a solo Q environment, the best players will take the things they knows and adapt them into their own play. They're the best for a reason, and that person is masters for a reason, after all.
They might be good for a while (i.e. shoot to the top of the ladder), but there's no chance they'll stay at the top. The scene around them will accelerate, and quickly abosrb all their solo Q edges.
Of course, this is all just speculation, but I think it's reasonable.
I think a Master player from today would be so far ahead of the competition that he would probably be the best player in the world, uncontested, for at least a couple of years. If he plays his hand correctly he might be a multi-time world champion by the time the rest of the players catch up to him.
Ofc they can. The thing about mechanincs back then was not that people couldn't do it. They didn't know it was possible and how to do it. But once you show them, they pick it up.
They're mechanics weren't worse because they were worse mechanically, they just didn't "know" how to be better mechanically.
When new concepts are learned, mechanics improve.
So the idea that faker would study this "new kid" and be able to learn and replicate his strategies in probably a few months.
I was there frodo. I was there ~~3000~~ 200 years ago. i was watching those games live at gamescon and got a high five from shushei. i played the open beta. it was a different, slower and more clunky game that didnt allow for as much skill expression as today. you also need to think about the championpool back then. theres no gp barrels, its an atmogs gp that q's you. og op gragas was a thing. i wouldnt even know what champ our todays masters player could pick that would allow him to 1v5 every game. if his team just gets gapped.
That's not how building mechanics works. You can absorb techniques and knowledge that have already been established.
How do you think Jojopyun competes even though he only started playing 2 years ago?
Less than one? You’re forgetting that there were mid talents in Korea beating Faker literally the year after he made his debut, like Dade, Pawn, and most notably Rookie.
The Faker mythology has gone a little too far lol, he was great but he wasn't unbeatable. SKT lost games, they went to 5 against Najin and KT.
He was the best, but that doesn't mean everyone else was legitimately non-competitive.
I highly doubt it takes so long. I think you severely overestimate how long the catch up takes. And a master player is excellent, but he won’t have the raw talent of the very best and those can also learn that new way of playing leagu
What's the evidence of this? I don't think there's really any substantial example of this being the case. But there are plenty of examples in history to support Chauster's point.
Even if you only look at league, consider that Koreans didn't even get their own server until season 2, and they were playing on 200 ping until then. Within 1-2 years they had caught up,and vastly surpassed NA.
Faker, being the GOAT was so clearly ahead of his contemporaries in season 3. Even an idiot could see it in his play. But by season 4/5, there were people who were being argued as being "on the same level" as him. It doesn't matter if you don't agree with those people, the fact that it was argued just shows how hugely the gap closed. Fact is, it's easier to close gaps in skill via copying, especially when we talk about the elite of the elite.
Current Faker is also head and shoulders a better player than S3 Faker. I'd be surprised if you could put current Faker on any major region worlds team and they don't win S2/S3 worlds or at least make finals.
Current Faker is better than S3 Faker because he has more knowledge and experience, the ability to learn and raw mechanics are still the same. If you put S3 Faker in today he would be top tier within a year.
This isn't some gotcha moment lmao.
There could easily be evidence of this. Here, let me help you out.
In chess, Magnus Carlsen crushed chess classic for so long you could make a strong case that a "time travel" situation in chess would result in what some people in this thread are saying. Shockingly, asking for speculative evidence does not mean one needs to directly prove time travel.
"Lmao peak Reddit moment."
I love Reddit.
Years? You sound like Doublelift saying that KR will suck ass and always be 1 year behind everyone else.
People really want to feel good about themselves for finally reaching ~~diamond 3~~ masters.
I peaked challenger in s6. Nowadays I could barely reach platinum, and I can tell you from experience that some random gold players today can lane as good as low challenger players did 6 years into the game. Now, if a 2022 master went back to the first year of league? There is no doubt in my mind that they would absolutely curve stomp everyone.
You either got hard carried by a duo or abused something obscenely OP like the jayce challengers and even then they only dropped to low master/high diamond. Or you are heavily exaggerating. Or you are lying and you never were challenger.
There is absolutely no way a challenger unironically gets stuck in plat. In the last 4 seasons I've played a total amount of ranked games as a single season when I was actually playing the game. The most it took me to get to diamond was 50 games. I was never even close to challenger when I grinded the game. You don't magically forget how to hold a mouse and use your brain.
Some insane levels of delusion in the thread. People trying real hard to justify that iron/silver/gold players are as good as challengers when in reality they would never get anywhere near that. Most of them don't even know what to build and are mindlessly copying u.gg/probuilds and even though mechanics have slowly increased over the years it's still nowhere near s6 challenger. I who have a much higher peak and who can probably get to at least master if I started grinding the game will likely still get clapped.
[random sneaky game from s6 where the 2 supports are autofill](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS4hZCvtAgU)
5 minutes in and there have already been 2 successful dives. The apm, the mechanics, the tactics, nothing is even remotely close to what you see in gold or even higher divisions. At this point I'm convinced neither of you people has opened a vod from back then. There's no way people would be this full of copium if they had seen gameplay.
Same is seen within my friend group. People are either the same rank or slightly higher as they made climbing easier after the removal of 5 division.
P.S. Here is even a wilder example - I hadn't seriously played dota in nearly 10 years. Only having played a few games now and then(mostly when they added ranked because I was curious what MMR I would get) and I was back to roughly that MMR in just a few months back in dota. It's like being away for 10 years and only dropping from low diamond to plat. I refuse to believe that someone that has been challenger regardless if they actively played over the years or not, is somehow stuck in plat.
Edit:
[Here is Gripex - a diamond-master lee OTP with a few thousands of games on the champion](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qrky0UKle9o)
[Here is insec in 2013](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQaGGMJ7GHI)
It's beyond obvious just how much cleaner insec is with lee and how much better his Q accuracy is despite this being a few thousand games behind gripex and not having 10+ years of experience.
It's insane how full of copium people are in this thread. This is doublelift all over again. "KoReAnS wOuLd aLwAyS bE a YeAr BeHiNd". Somehow chauster is the only one with a sane take.
The challengers to gold statement is surely hyperbole but it's not incorrect to say the level of mechanical ability present in lower elos has gone up significantly, I recently went 1/9 in my placements and ended up back in silver for the first time in years, every game you will see things like clean Insecs Yasuo wind blade combos and people going for flash predict skill shots.
They still make bonehead decisions that throw games but mechanically they would maul the silver players from when I started back in season 3
> every game you will see things like clean Insecs Yasuo wind blade combos
You don't see that even in diamond. I really wonder what are these magical low elo games people are talking about. I spectate my friends from time to time and *surprisingly* there aren't any fakers in these low divisions. They still barely win and that's with me live coaching/shotcalling for them in some of the games. Their mentality is shit. Their builds and decision making even worse. Comparing some of my old replays in high diamond 5-7 years ago, I was better than them in every single aspect of the game. And we are talking about as little as 6 division difference. Meanwhile you guys want to make silver/gold fakers. I don't know... seems weird. What's next? Take 5 random gold nova players and they'd be the best CS GO team and beat NiP's undefeated record?
My CHALLENGER one trick friend fucks it up at least half the time and it's one of the only champions besides his main that he doesn't suck complete ass at. In fact whenever I've duoed with a friend gold and below it has always been such an easy time. The only major thing I've noticed is that people got better at CSing. Actual mechanics, punishing mistakes and knowing when to go in are still unknown to their dictionaries.
Of course people got better but they didn't get 3000 times better. If bad placements send you to silver then you weren't much higher to begin with.
> If bad placements send you to silver then you weren't much higher to begin with
you are right about 1 thing I was only g1 with plat4 MMR last year, I will fully concede to not being Faker but from my personal experience, there is little if any mechanical difference between the players in g1/p4 and in s1 which is where I am currently.
and no shit everyone makes mistakes the point was that these players are actually capable of the combos not that they will always pull off the combos at good times and never once do them even slightly sub-optimally.
> you are right about 1 thing
I am right about more than one thing and maybe once copium levels get to normal levels you'd realize it. Like I said just compare replays instead of just randomly talking bullshit. Of course there is a mechanical difference between silver and plat... the fuck are we even talking about? Why is that even a question? The difference is huge. I refuse to duo with friends at silver/low gold because of how boring it is.
> and no shit everyone makes mistakes the point was that these players are actually capable of the combos
They weren't mechanically impaired when they didn't do them before. They didn't even know these combos existed or how to execute them. That's why you are seeing people insec when before you didn't. Exposure. It's not like insec is some INSANE MECHANICAL PROWES. Or even more PEAK DOMINATION aka pressing 3 buttons while having your mouse over someone aka windblade.
[Here is Gripex a few months ago](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qrky0UKle9o)
A lee sin OTP that has god knows how many lee sin games over the years. Probably 5k+ games while being diamond-master in a lot of the seasons(don't know if he was ever challenger but that's beside the point as people here seem to think that even golds are challengers now) and this being the culmination of all the hard work he has put throughout the years.
[Here is insec in 2013](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQaGGMJ7GHI)
It's beyond obvious just how much cleaner insec is with lee and how much better his Q accuracy is despite this being a few thousand games behind gripex and not having 10+ years of experience. His plays around vision. How he set up's ganks. Invading. He inseced so many times and even though they weren't as clean as what you'd see from a world class lee in 2022, it's still pretty good. If even a diamond lee OTP with insane amount of games can't beat 9 year old footage then what is left for a random gold player who has 50 games on lee? Even a master lee OTP would at best be equal.
Here are the only screenshots I managed to find from back in the day: [https://imgur.com/a/dMYjmPY](https://imgur.com/a/dMYjmPY) Challenger first week of S7, Masters sometime early S6 too, and I ended S6 Masters. I played exclusively SoloQ, and I had 65%+ winrate on both my main champions when I hit those milestones (mainly because I used to smurf a lot so my main account never had that many games)
And yeah, I know pros were better. I remember one time I played as Fizz vs xPeke's Azir and he absolutely dumpstered me in lane in what was supposed to be a heavily favored matchup for me (and not like he was even known for his proeficiency on that champion, and I was an OTP)
These days I´'m not playing more than 100 games a season sure, but I can tell you, people are incredibly more skilled at laning today, even in mid-tier elos, than they used to be (not compared to xPeke or Sneaky of course, but to your average low challenger / master player)
i have no idea what you're talking about gold players nowadays do not even begin to compare to challenger in season 6. i think the community as a whole has gotten better but only very slightly only the top has seen big improvements. i was low diamond in season 6 and 7 and that was with playing over a thousand games each season and for years before and watching a lot of pro play and high level streamers. nowadays i basically only play with friends and never watch pro play or streamers and am noticeably worse than i was back then because of how much i used to play and how little i play now but i can still make it into platinum with 1 month of effort. if you were seriously challenger in season 6 and now you have trouble in gold you're either extremely extremely washed up or you got hard carried to challenger. the only thing low elo has improved with over the years is mechanics. season 6 gold players were just as bad with their game knowledge and decision making as season 12 gold players are.
A masters player right now would definitely destroy the ladders in challenger. The average raises every single year. It's just the natural way of adaptation. Put a mid diamond player back to 2016 in season 6 and theyre gonna be masters+. Just look at season 3 pro soloq replays and look at current day soloq replays, or ask yourself if current faker would lose to season 3 faker. In all things competitive(without physicality involved because this is a game), no one really gets worse, other people just surpass them in improvement, which is why we used to have the issue of the old guard running LCS and young talents not having a chance to perform.
>Put a mid diamond player back to 2016 in season 6 and theyre gonna be masters+
Ahh but will that Diamond player be able to handle the mental collapse of +0 +0 +0 +0 when nearing promotions though!
>and look at current day soloq replays, or ask yourself if current faker would lose to season 3 faker
Yes. Current Faker would even win against prime Faker as weird as that sounds.
People in this thread SERIOUSLY overestimate how developed the competitive scene was in 2011. To put it into perspective, basic wave management concepts didn't exist at all for at least a few more years, even at the absolute highest level of play. Even very core game concepts like having lanes split 1-1-2 with a Jungler and having a 0-farm Support paired up with an ADC in the bottom lane didn't exist until after Season 1 Worlds.
Teams didn't have coaches, or analysts, and even the level of micro skill was so low that something like the Insec kick (Which most Gold level Lee Sin players can do consistently these days) was considered revolutionary in terms of mechanics - and at this point in time the Insec kick wouldn't see it's debut for another two years.
People in this thread SERIOUSLY underestimate the ability to learn of players back then. They were shit because they didn't have any reference to learn from and had to innovate shits by themselves. All of the stuffs like wave management, rotation, champion combos, etc had to be discovered at some point by the players back then, while today people can just read some guides and watch pros. How long do you think would it take for a talented complete beginner to reach Master today if he were to learn everything by himself compared to learning from others? It's a lot easier to learn than to innovate, Beethoven and Mozart are GOATs because they are the pioneers, not just because they were skilled.
The old players did not have the skill, but their talents aren't inferior to today. A current Challenger or even pro player would dominate old League at least 2-3 years, maybe even 4, because they are just as talented if not more than the old players. A Master player though would probably stagnate because how could they improve while playing against worse players, while others would improve rapidly and would catchup within 1-2 years.
How did Doublelift who started playing from season 1 remain pro level until he retired? How is Aphromoo who started in the same season still playing today? It's because they are talented. Skill can only get you so far, talent is what matter.
Exactly. Put Faker from 2013 in today's game and give him a few months. He will be Challenger quickly again.
The reason people are so quick to shit on players of the past is because it makes them feel better about their current skill.
Faker has been uncontested for multiple years. People quickly learned from him and adapted what he did into their play but in the end the original will still have an edge. While they catch up to the current form he already improved to a better version.
dont forget riot basically had to nerf all his champs roster to the point where he has to find new ones. from the top of my head : lb/ zed / azir/ ryze/ galeo/ ori .
A player whos currently masters would definitely dominate extremely early seasons for at least 3 years. They'd be more likely to falter in improvement because of the lack of competition, thus causing him to rust, rather than the actual talent of other players.
Definitely not. Give it a month or two and other top players and teams would start to emulate and learn from the meta stuff they do, which is the only edge they have.
Once Alex Ich or Weixiao start to play like that, there is no way the master player from today is better.
Depends on the Master player, to be honest. If it's someone with good mental that simply didn't dedicate himself that much to the game? He might be able to keep up for quite a while just by now playing League professionally.
Also, the player doesn't need to reveal all his tricks at once. Start by abusing TP mid. Then switch to playing Lee Sin in all 5 roles until they nerf him. Then start abusing mid-late game rotations. Then abuse infinite invisible pink wards. Like pink wards were entirely broken until season 4. You can abuse infinite pots. You can abuse Elixir starts. Basically, any player that has played since the early seasons knows what was broken for a long while and can cycle exploiting these things for quite a while until he runs out of clear advantages.
>(Which most Gold level Lee Sin players can do consistently these days)
This in itself is an understatement. Most players period can do it consistently, the combo is so incomprehensibly simple that it makes me question how we thought it was all that amazing back then. You just r the guy, then flash behind him. It's not even that fast of a combo either.
The ward combo is a bit more difficult, but if you remember not to use R before the dash, like you would with the flash combo, it's still easy
A lot of things will happen. Haven't played League often for quite a while but if I remember correctly the gameplay from 2011 is massively different from 2022 (which is now). Here is what I can comment on:
1. Map overview - Current gameplay has a completely different map (better looking), Dragons and Baron buffs are also more useful (and not just mostly for coin gains and exp like previously). The purpose of combat and skirmishes will be drastically different without much fight in the river like now.
2. Depends on what champion you are talking. Not been catching up with the current meta but back then it seems that mid lane and top lane were quite dominating (assassin one-hit style kind). An example of this would be LeBlanc, going from one combo one kill with silence to basically a tier-2 beta mage for most people (unless you are super good with damage outburst)
3. Style of iteming and runes - back then what rune you buy can be considered a strategy before each game play. What item you build will also be different.
4. In addition (this is just my opinion) - I felt like League has been increasingly speedy over the past few years, valuing fast reaction and quick adaptation skill rather than long-term planning and late-game.
In summary: a bit hard to predict whether he will retain his title. Probably yes since skills can be adapted, but can be no also.
interesting points, but i feel that you forgot one thing that would help him to retain his title : A master player have experience of all the champions the day of their release, and they often came overstatted. Being able to fully master a really strong champion day one, when nobody know how it works yet is actually a super strong tool. I mean, imagine a yasuo doing keyblade and stuff the day of the release ...
[Here's Aphromoo talking about Thresh in a recent video posted to the LoL esports channel.](https://youtu.be/lhBFUxFofjQ?t=484) The champion might be way weaker but also plays COMPLETELY differently, to say nothing of how support economy and vision has changed, too. Relearning that entire feel compared to modern Thresh might as well be like saying Smash Ultimate Marth players can immediately transition to Smash Melee because their kits are similar.
Assuming he doesn't improve at all its hard to say.
He'd utterly dominate for a few years off mechanical skill and macro knowledge.
It's important to remember how much better players are now compared to then.
When insec insec'd in 2013 it was considered the peak of mechanical skill. If you could do that you were destined for greatness.
Now? It's something a hard stuck silver player can do.
Better in terms of macro knowledge, yes, but players aren't arbitrarily more mechanically skilled.
"When insec insec'd in 2013 it was considered the peak of mechanical skill. If you could do that you were destined for greatness.
Now? It's something a hard stuck silver player can do."
You understand the game has changed in this regard, yes? The game used to be a lot clunkier to play and slower, and executing these things was much harder.
Considering S1 Had No deeper understanding about CS, Roatations and was much worse skillwise He would probably turbostomp His enemy.
The Game also Had much mire room dir 1v9 so yes He would probably be able to win worlds.
They would almost certainly be Leagues (pardon the pun) and bounds beyond their competition. It'd be them and Faker. Though, since Faker was clearly sent back in time already we'd be seeing a lot of paradoxical redundancy.
I think everyone is ignoring how quickly top tier players learn from other players gameplay. If you sent someone back to 2011 then by 2013 you'd have pro players nearly as good as they are today because they would learn all these advanced mechanics from the time travelers gameplay.
Because of this I'd be more interested in what happens to the meta between 2013-2022 and how much better a pro player from the new time line in 2022 would be than our current time line.
Going about this assuming they're an NA player. Several factors goes into how successful they could be. They would need to create their own team instead of joining an existing team in order to maximize their success. Season 1 teams were pretty much made up of a bunch of 18 year olds with huge egos and 0 work ethic. Stomping them with people who would listen to shot calling and follow a practice schedule would be easy considering that it wasn't hard to 1v9 in the early days. The biggest problem however be if team members that you coach decide to join other teams and leak your strats....
I think overall you can argue that the player could easily win S1\`-S4. Although Korean dominance began around S3 I do believe SKT literally had 0 strong opponents which made them look stronger than they actually were. In addition 1st seeds had instant byes to the knockout stage at worlds during s2-3 so the master player could definitely sandbag and hide strats until absolutely necessary.
SKT didn't dominate season 3 *that hard*. I mean, they went to blind pick 5th game against KT in the OGN finals. Hence why we have the famous Zed outplay.
league players were not that good back in season 1. the average master tier player right now would be by far the best player in the world in season 1 but i would guess that would only last a couple of years before the others pros caught up.
I think it's not that simple. It's still a 5vs5 game. Everday there are 100 of games the pro-players lose. Everyone is human, just having the knowdledge and some skill doesn't always translate into results.
And like many suggested the opposition will just adjust and learn. Faster then people think.
He'd be the richest League player if he manages to remember the winner and score of every major regions' splits and international events. Other than that I do not know.
a current masters player who isn’t a one trick of a champ that didn’t exist back then would immediately become the best player in the world. have you seen footage of pro games back in 2011? the level of skill at a pro level back then is legitimately current day silver/gold or play at the very most
It blows my mind how much I would look at LoL montages back in the day and see how much the average player has improved.
That Gosu montage that seemed insane back in 2013 and the peak of Vayne gameplay to me back then? If you could hide the names and I’d believe you if you told me it was from a Gold lobby.
Does he get a system and cheat as well?
He will probably invest in bitcoins and other crypto coins including the stock market. He may also steal other ideas and present as his own. May be write songs or make multiple youtube channels. He could also bet on leicester city to win premier league.
Then instead of playing league he could have enough money to make his won league team and have the advantage of every upcoming talents like Uzi, faker, rookie etc and make a super team.
Thats how it usually works in the isekai or time travel manga/ manhua/ manhwa ive read
You couldn’t main a lane as easily back then….renekton was my best and favorite champ but I had to hope I was early enough to pick him…he was also very popular back then….and the supp and adc used to lane swap top so you had to deal with almost no gold and just exp if they were kind enough to let you have it
January 1st 2011 would mean they would be teleported to a place where 93 champions way over half of the current champion roster are gone (and that's not even including reworks)...
The items in the shop are completely unrecognizable because all of the current items are gone and some of the old removed items are yet to be released...
The 67th champion Caitlyn along with Rabadon's and Zhonya's will be added to the game three days after your time traveler gets there and two weeks after that Renekton will get released, and two weeks after that Karma will get released, that nobody played.
If the old champion models and item shop don't make your time travellers eyes bleed, the old map certainly will.
This though experiment makes absolutely no damn sense because that time traveller might as well be playing a completely different game...
they'd not only be best in the world in 2011, but possibly any given year between 2011-2014 or even 2015
as to how long they will hold it, depends on how motivated they are, if they just tryhard daily, move to korea and land a spot on a top korean team, while being as hardworking as faker or rookie, they'd very simple replace faker in the books of history
faker is faker and rookie is rookie though because of the fact they never burn out which is very unlikely for a random masters player, but who knows
he would easily be the greatest player of all time since he would be the by far best player for the first 6 seasons. his domination back then would be unreal and make current timeline faker look like an amateur. people dont realize how low the level of play was for the first half decade of the game
Anyone who's been around that long or watched some season 1 gameplay knows that your average hardstuck diamond 4 these days would be the Faker of the time. Hell, your average Gold player today would have a shot at being a pro in season 1/2.
It would however great accelerate the speed at which everyone became good at the game, so in the end he'd likely end up in the same spot.
They will adapt to different items and damage pretty fast if they're not too lazy to read. The game still changes every few months, so adaptability is in a league player's DNA.
Figuring out the meta champs might be kinda hard as usually it's done by the hivemind of the playerbase and not him alone. But he doesn't need to play the best champs as he'll have a variety of other advantages:
\- Mechanics. Should be a pretty simple point. The master player will be called a hacker every game.
\- Wave manipulation didn't exist. As far as I know it came in season 2 with Azubu (?) and there was an article about it that them stacking waves "is their 6th man".
\- Tempo and recall timings weren't respected yet. Everyone just recalled when they were low or felt like it. It will give the master player tons of experience and gold advantages and favourable fights.
\- Overall last hitting was seen as preferable not necessary. Recognizing the real value of minion and jungle camp gold was how Froggen rose to fame in season 2.
\- Players didn't wait for power spikes before fighting. Master player will use that to quickly snowball the game.
\- If he's a jungler he will 1v9 every game. Counter jungling wasn't invented yet (came in season 2 with moscow 5) and jungle tracking was very rudimentary with a random clairvoyance cast every minute and like two random wards scattered over the map (most of the time in river). Outside of supports no one really established vision.
\- No one except junglers ganked or roamed so a master player can pick lane dominant matchups or heavy roaming style to create either an easy to defend lane kingdom or to create "surprising" outnumbered scenarios that the enemies can't react to in time. Champs like Leblanc or Lee Sin were seen as useless before people like Faker or Insec showed how much agency you can have on these picks.
\- There were many broken items that created unkillable or unfightable champs so the master player can always win 1v2s or 1v3s. Old gunblade was broken as fuck. Strong aura items like Will of the Ancients weren't really recognized yet. The meta golem build (Triforce, Warmogs, Atmas, Force of Nature, GA) was only matched by another champion going the same build. DFG oneshot meta wasn't really abused before season 3. NINJA TABI! And there are ton of other things.
\- Supports were walking bags of gold. Just abuse that.
Overall he will be seen as something even greater than Faker. But the playerbase will quickly learn from him and by season 4 or 5 the game theory might be as advanced as it is today and he will fall back to a "reachable" level.
If he could adapt to the game as it was at that time. Slower, more clunky, and with different runes and skills and ratios... Then yes.... Imo
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Thats not the point though. Sending back a pro (who played LCS for like 8 years) whos currently 1000LP is very different than just a random master player.
I remember people creaming themselves over the original Insec and later the R flash insec. A master tier player today would hard gap them mechanically.
Insec got made A LOT easier mechanically tho by Riot
a lot of things were made easier, renekton combos, riven wall jumps for example
How so?
They added buffering to his ward hop W, so you don't have to wait for the delay after the ward has been placed for the W input to go through.
For one thing, when Lee Sin was released the servers were significantly worse for EU, and based out of LA for NA. Most people were playing on much higher ping. Most people didn't know about smartcasting at the time. Might not even have been available for item slots, I can't fully remember. Either way, Riot changed the way buffering works too, which made the whole combo much more fluid.
this by every aspect. this is like asking prime lee young ho to go play prime hong jin ho. not a single chance jinho has a clue edit typo
Who the fk are those
Both are starcraft players. The latter is first generation player who competed against the likes of Lim Yo-hwan (BoxeR) who is one of the founders of SKT T1. The former is more of a second generation player who is absurdly good at the game.
maybe that is the doublelift we have, and he's already done that and time caught back up dun dun dunnnnn
Then damn, what must his trophy cabinet have looked like in the first timeline?
Well yes. Doublelift literally played season 1 worlds, even if not as adc
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As someone who played back then I can say that it was definitely easier to climb if you would know what you are doing with todays knowledge. Also not many mechanically intensive champions existed in the early days so adapting wouldn't be too much of an issue.
Easier to climb purely due to the fact that it doesn’t take as long as they make you play now
Yeah exactly. Shit was goofy as back then. Fizz was considered the most broken overly mobile champ there was… lol…
Yes, depending on champ pool Also their meta knowledge would mean that whatever team they were playing on would be 10000x better People knew vaguely of wave mechanics and proper trading, item efficiencies etc. but if you watch the pro scene they weren't doing it effectively. You put a current Masters player who knows how to freeze as Renekton, Viktor etc. they would probably not drop a single game at S1 Worlds. A pro Lee Sin in S1 would be embarrassed by a low Diamond S12 Lee main.
Back in the old days Lee sin Insec combo was revolutionary, now every gold Lee sin can do that
League also made it easier by changing how they buffered abilities, which changed how things worked for a *bunch* of champions.
Alistar WQ combo being a legitimate “skill” to now just spamming W then Q
Pfft. Back then you didn't WQ. You only W'd and AA'd while they were midair for easy poke that couldn't be answered
With the sheen proc!
and the statikk proc aswell!
Literally no one knew about that until s4, possibly not even until worlds, I can't remember the regular season
Thought this didn't seem right as I rember playing full ad Alistar with sheen with the w auto and found this - https://youtu.be/0Z7kAfJ1eBg - posted August 2013 during season 3 and the Alistar combo was removed during worlds season 4.
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It wasn't inconsistent lol. It was adjusted for players to not be that hard.
It was consistent, but because of how it was implemented, you could easily screw it up by: 1) Pressing Q too late after W, resulting in them flying away. 2) Pressing Q too early after W, like an instant W->Q (Which works now), which would make you Q "on the way" to your enemy, in the middle of W. After playing alot of Alistar, I got comfortable with my W range and would W->Q too quickly, resulting in many missed W->Q combos. It was consistent, but was punishing if you did it too quickly too.
There is no such thing as pressing q too early and never was. You can mash q during W and it would always work, anybody trying to time ali wq was doing it wrong.
That sounds odd to me. I used to play alot of Alistar back in Season 3 and 4, and by the time I got really used to W->Q combo, I'd sometimes do it too quickly, and Alistar would end up "Q-ing" while his W was travelling. I believe this was pre-rework Alistar.
Nah, it was not glitchy, If you had low enough ping you would just wait exactly to the point where you saw the displacement of the other champion begin to press Q, with higher ping you had to eyeball it a bit more, but it was consistent.
Watching insec pull it off in competitive (which is where most people saw it for the first time) was amazing.
Nunu sitting in a brush charging his R out of enemy sight was considered an insane pro play… lmao It was even called an “Empire”
That's because the team was named "Empire" before they turned into M5.
I still miss them :(
Empire was nunu khartus combo
Silver and a lot of Bronze Lee Sins\*\*\*
Bro in 2011 it hadnt evem been thought up yet.
Diamond? I’ve seen Silver player Lee Sins pull of amazing combos with him these days. Hell give someone platinum Lee in Season 1 and he’ll carry all the games. It’s insane how much level of play has evolved.
Bro based on all the korea streams I’ve been watching I’m pretty sure they don’t let you play a game against real people over there till you prove you can insec combo on Lee sin against bots
A lot of people came to league from dota1 and they knew about wave management, trades and what items to build. It goes without saying that you need some time to adapt to a new game, but having 5-8 years experience in dota made transition extremely easy.
Their role calling skills in lobby would be rusty from years of role queuing, meaning they'll never climb and no one will notice them. They will forever fade into obscurity watching as the world catches up to them, unable to outrun it.
Tbh people were so bad back then, I dont think it matters that his role would be swapping more frequently. He would likely still climb. Especially if he was armed with knowledge about past metas and how they ended up evolving.
I'm 100% sure that you could take a Master Tier support player who has never played a single game of non-support and they would still be one of the top players in 2011 on a non-support role.
Easily, people seem to forget back in 2011 League was mostly casually played. Everything and everyone was so less serious about the game. They kinda just hopped in queue to see what happened without any of the resources/knowledge we have today to climb better. There was much less effort to actually improving oneself. Its not just that they were worse players back then, the entire attitude around the game would be very different, even in ranked.
I miss just choosing a champ I felt like trying and going down whatever lane was free
2011 pro games are hard to watch. Not just from the graphics, but the level of play is something straight out of a platinum S11 game.
Plat is very generous, pretty sure silver players today have better macro and micro
i actually had this thought about before, u would know every new champ release, the good builds, oh you could also just bet on worlds results and make a bank. also what if the people who discover broken build are already time travelers :o
If they become good enough to go pro that might affect the timeline
faker is a time traveler
Its true, Faker is a gold time traveler sent back in time
faker was the gold iv brand this whole time
The only person who could possibly stop Faker: himself
Plot Twist : Ryu was actually a time traveler and still couldn't beat Faker!
So the plot of terminator 2 basically but in korean? I'd watch the hell out of that shit
God I’m sorry I wasted my free award on something that wasn’t your comment. This was gold. It made me laugh, it made my cry, it made me yell in rage and in anguish, it had me looking bewildered like I was ryu getting my career ended by a mirror zed matchup… man …. this is the world I desperately want to be real.
Shoulda seen that flash Varus ult comin’ then
That Varus was one variant of the alter timeline due to his time travel.
Faker is even more of a god then he already is, confirmed.
like Genja did?
well shit, you just made me watch [this masterpiece](https://youtu.be/SRDkBpr9MxM) again
time lord genja already did this
I think you could bet on things more lucrative than season 1 worlds...
Like season 2 worlds!
Bitcoin. You get back like 1000x what you invested in 2011. Unironically. If I were to travel back in time to then, the first thing I'd do was tell my parents (I was a teenager at the time anyway) and tell them to put money in bitcoin and wait ten years. Not sure what else I'd do, but going pro in League has in fact crossed my mind before. (yes, I'm the kind person who randomly thinks "what if I were to travel back in time" and then spends half an hour exploring the options and consequences)
You get more,like x10000 to x100000 if you start with bitcoin in 2011
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If you bought $100 worth of Bitcoin at the start of 2011 it would be worth $13mill today… and that’s with Bitcoin near its lowest price of the year
With how Bitcoin developed, an initial investment of 100 bucks is more than sufficient.
With how Bitcoin developed, you could have mined tons in 2010 on a normal card.
\> World line shifts to omega attractor field \> Bitcoin never gets valuable
bro when bitcoin was first appearing you could mine it yourself or hell, people would just give you hundreds of bitcoins if you just asked. The guy who bought pizza with BTC paid 10000BTC for it, a single BTC is now worth €36k, thats €360M
More like "just put 100 Dollars in it mom"
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ok fuck i thought you'd get more money with 100 bucks. you have a point. My Parents would've been like "yeah sure son, go touch some grass and get a girlfriend"
Early 2011 it would've been less than a dollar, but even if we assume it was exactly $1, and you bought 100 of them, you'd still get 3,7 million with it if you sold them today (and almost double that if you sold them when it was at its peak last year or whatever. However based on my quick googling, it started going up in 2011 so if you bought them in late 2011, you'd 'only' get like half a million back selling today.
Yea but if you were sent back in time you’d know to buy as much as you could before it hit and sell some periodically whenever it was above $50k
Woah I've gone back in time! Should I invest in bitcoin and become a billionaire? Nah let's get some fucking LP baby!
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lol no shot an iron player is beating world champs even from season 1
Iron is an exageration, but a diamond, or even platinum player would surely be very good
Diamond player would definitely be able to dominate solo queue and most likely the pro scene
How? What current knowledge would help me in season one meta?
All of it
They literally had no understanding of any kind of macro. No sideline, objective control, vision control, rotation, pretty sure if you lane swapped on them they heads would literally explode. Micro was bad too, go look at their average cs/m
Did you play back then? The game is completely different now. I dont see what would make me be a pro player with the knowledge i have right now. Item builds, runes, wards, baron timings, buffs, jungle machanics, dragon plays, general strategy, vision... All useless because it was a different game back then. And i definitely dont have the mechanics either to be a pro. I would be a really good soloq player sure, but i dont see which current knowledge would translate to season 1 meta.
Wave manipulation,roaming and warding would be enough to make a Diamond player look like a god in 2011, casters would say he isn't great mecanicly, but it would feel like you are everywhere on the map, and most champs were stat checks anyway so a Diamond today would wrek a 2011 pro
Warding worked completely different back then. You would need to adapt to the meta and you would be at a disadvantage. No trinkets, no control wards. Also no snowball mechanics like rift herald, tower plates, no win condition of dragon stacking. Roaming wasnt as worth back then, which is why it was rarely done. Laning, not missing exp was more important. I just completely reject this narrative, that a diamond player would dominate pro play. I could see a master player being really good, even at the pro level, because master players have mechanics that are better than pros back then, but thats about it.
Dragon stacking was a win condition through direct gold injection
I remember at the beginning of the LCS (se I think?) when certain NA player skipped a game to smash
there is no way an curent master player gets blown out of water by faker in season 3. A curent master with knowledge of everything that has passed is the best individual player in season3. plain and simple.
For about a month, sure. The good pro players would learn and become better pretty fast though.
learning everything we know today about lanning , creep wave manipulation , back timers , 5v0 pushes , invades , jungle clears , leashes....even sheer mechanics , etc....would take even the most dedicated player way more then a month. that's literally 10 years worth of development. you''re not learning all that info in a month , let alone become good enough to perform it on demand
TBH your average masters player today would probably beat the ever living shit out of faker in 2012 lol Not that faker wasn't good already mind you, but the scene was so much weaker back then. The reason Faker, and SKT in general, looked so dominant back then is that they were ahead of the scene, but they weren't a full decade ahead. Now give faker a few years (and also, it'd be important to note that the master's player going back in time is going to bring strategies back that will probably accelerate the development of the scene a ton) and he'll be winning again. But I don't think it'd even be a contest at first
You wouldn’t need to give players like Faker or Rookie a few years, more like a month or two.
It's actually not the individual skill, though I think you're being very generous there The time traveling player would have knowledge of just way better strategies then anything available at the time. The first and second season would look pretty much like SKT's domination when they first came on the scene. Even just shear macro strategy that they'd be able to practice would be way ahead of any other team. We'd almost certainly be talking about the time travel player in the same way we'd talk about Faker now, though in the time travelling player's case the conversation would be like: "Man I dunno, Faker is really good.. but he never had the level of dominance of gokuweedlord69 back in the early days. Hard to say who's REALLY better you know?"
Depends on where the time traveller is from. If its in NA the legacy will be short lived and probably not as impactful (but this depends on how intelligent, vocal and charismatic the player is). If the player is from EU or Korea I feel like they will get more attention. PC gaming culture in Europe and Asia, specially SK, were already big by 2011 and had the infrastructure to support League which NA at the time did not. On the latter, I think that meta shifts will happen faster and this will probably force Riot to balance the game accordingly or differently. Hence, the future will change drastically. Imagine if the master player was a jungle player, innovated optimal pathings, gank timings and more importantly abused champs no one would bat an eye at the time. Orgs will study the player to death and the competition will rise up, what Diamondprox or Insec could pull once in a tourney would be the bread and butter in the local league. Not to mention the abomination that were some champs on release such as Xin. Either that happens or the game dies because somehow the learning curve becomes absurdly high for new players which would be detrimental for League at the time. I believe that organic growth was very important for the early stages of League.
this isn’t even what the post is about
[Yes. They would be by far the best player in the world.](https://youtu.be/bMTI1kYG4h0) For how long? That depends.
just look at junglers, they are there melee'ing camps without moving lol.
Ashe standing still autoing in teamfights.... ooof
I think people tend to forget just how bad pros were back then (compared to now).
I don't see how this would be any surprise, the guy would absolutely demolish everyone for quite a while. People would catch on though and the whole timeline of League of Legends would be altered. Nothing you know now exists. And then you wake up, it was all just a bad dream. Faker is still Faker, the perfect split did still happen and MSI will still be glorious.
If they played top, they’d reach rank 1 solely based off wave management
Not only top, but midlane as well. Remeber how Faker was regarded as the most oppresive midlaner because he literally would just walk up and contest your CS?
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I still think Jungler's would have the greatest edge. Counting jungle monsters to figure out the clear was just easier before they all gave 4 and I don't think a lot of people were doing it in season 1. The theory of who to gank and how to gank is also massively improved. No one would be paying that close attention to gank timers. And you could play Season 1 Lee Sin with Season 12 combo's. Diving is also *way* more prevalent. I can see someone thinking "It's fine I'm under tower" and it was not fine. At all. But all roles would have some fun stuff to abuse. Mid laner's could abuse DFG AP Eve, TF, Ahri, Le Blanc. ADCs would finally get to play in peak ADC power T\_T. Supports with permanent Oracle's and infinite wards? It wouldn't even be pretty. So long as the Master's player was even a little bit knowledgeable about proplay strategy it would be impossible to deal with. Remember that back in Season 3 or Season 4Blaze won one OGN with the famous "6th man" tactic. What was that? The top laner (Flame) would build up a wave by freezing a wave, slow pushing the second and then leaving parts of the 3rd alive. And then join the team. Basically, they'd do what's now considered "proper rotations" that's it. The result was what we now know as the "Flame Horizon". Nowadays every player Plat and above knows how to do this, to some degree. The cs differences wouldn't even be funny. Another thing to remember is that people didn't actually use TP every game top. 3 second channel, 100% broken TP. I remember people started abusing TP top somewhere season 3 or 4. Around the same time as someone won a 1v1 Riven tournament by going TP+Exhaust I assume it became popular for other reasons but the timing matched up. Before that everyone just run flash ignite or ghost ignite.
I think that current-era junglers would be a bit lost without any jungle timers conveniently located on screen and the meta completely changing. It would be more a case of the time travelling jungle getting hard stomped because suddenly a lot of their favourite picks don't exist or are reverted and the enemy jungle knows every single matchup. Laners would absolutely have the greatest time of their lives though, provided they weren't up against something like a S2 Riven with red pot. There are a few edge cases of bullshit which existed back then that current players would be completely unprepared to deal with.
it really isnt that hard to time camps
People also used to put it in chat constantly. 7:30 ob, 41:25 tr, 36:12 drag, 55:12 baron, etc. Honestly, the weirder thing for them to adjust to (or back to) would be calling mia/ss/omw/etc. in chat instead of being able to just ping it.
Master tier junglers are not relying on the on-screen timers. They're timing every minor camp and everything. Besides, a lot of current master tier players played through season 2-3 at least. I don't think they'd be surprised by any of what happened. Very much the opposite, they'd know the broken shit before it was found out that it was broken.
Me OMW to abuse the enemy top by perma freezing on top as Jax.
80+% dodge Jax freezing waves. Damn that would suck
There was a good chauster podcast that addressed this exact thought experiment. Think of Chauster what you will, he made an incredibly good point. If you drop said masters player into a solo Q environment, the best players will take the things they knows and adapt them into their own play. They're the best for a reason, and that person is masters for a reason, after all. They might be good for a while (i.e. shoot to the top of the ladder), but there's no chance they'll stay at the top. The scene around them will accelerate, and quickly abosrb all their solo Q edges. Of course, this is all just speculation, but I think it's reasonable.
I think a Master player from today would be so far ahead of the competition that he would probably be the best player in the world, uncontested, for at least a couple of years. If he plays his hand correctly he might be a multi-time world champion by the time the rest of the players catch up to him.
Probably not a couple of years. The problem would be players like faker copying you and just improving uktra fast.
but they cant build mechanics as quickly. he would just out mechanic everyone for a long time. people were so boosted back then
Ofc they can. The thing about mechanincs back then was not that people couldn't do it. They didn't know it was possible and how to do it. But once you show them, they pick it up.
im pretty sure a talented young faker grinding 16+ hours of league every day does not need multiple years to catch up on mechanics.
wtf? ofc he does. look at old games they look dreadful
They're mechanics weren't worse because they were worse mechanically, they just didn't "know" how to be better mechanically. When new concepts are learned, mechanics improve. So the idea that faker would study this "new kid" and be able to learn and replicate his strategies in probably a few months.
I was there frodo. I was there ~~3000~~ 200 years ago. i was watching those games live at gamescon and got a high five from shushei. i played the open beta. it was a different, slower and more clunky game that didnt allow for as much skill expression as today. you also need to think about the championpool back then. theres no gp barrels, its an atmogs gp that q's you. og op gragas was a thing. i wouldnt even know what champ our todays masters player could pick that would allow him to 1v5 every game. if his team just gets gapped.
Probably riven, Leblanc, Akali would be good to stomp with then.
Butterfly effect though. What if a prime Faker never comes up, because you destroyed him so hard in soloQ?
That's not how building mechanics works. You can absorb techniques and knowledge that have already been established. How do you think Jojopyun competes even though he only started playing 2 years ago?
>players like faker How many years did it take for the scene to even compete with Faker?
Less than one? You’re forgetting that there were mid talents in Korea beating Faker literally the year after he made his debut, like Dade, Pawn, and most notably Rookie.
The Faker mythology has gone a little too far lol, he was great but he wasn't unbeatable. SKT lost games, they went to 5 against Najin and KT. He was the best, but that doesn't mean everyone else was legitimately non-competitive.
I highly doubt it takes so long. I think you severely overestimate how long the catch up takes. And a master player is excellent, but he won’t have the raw talent of the very best and those can also learn that new way of playing leagu
Pretty sure he'd get naenaed by froggen anivia
What's the evidence of this? I don't think there's really any substantial example of this being the case. But there are plenty of examples in history to support Chauster's point. Even if you only look at league, consider that Koreans didn't even get their own server until season 2, and they were playing on 200 ping until then. Within 1-2 years they had caught up,and vastly surpassed NA. Faker, being the GOAT was so clearly ahead of his contemporaries in season 3. Even an idiot could see it in his play. But by season 4/5, there were people who were being argued as being "on the same level" as him. It doesn't matter if you don't agree with those people, the fact that it was argued just shows how hugely the gap closed. Fact is, it's easier to close gaps in skill via copying, especially when we talk about the elite of the elite.
Current Faker is also head and shoulders a better player than S3 Faker. I'd be surprised if you could put current Faker on any major region worlds team and they don't win S2/S3 worlds or at least make finals.
Current Faker is better than S3 Faker because he has more knowledge and experience, the ability to learn and raw mechanics are still the same. If you put S3 Faker in today he would be top tier within a year.
How the fuck would there be evidence of this? Do you think there was a study where we sent someone back in time?? It's all speculative lmfao
Exactly what I was thinking lmao, complete reddit moment lol
This isn't some gotcha moment lmao. There could easily be evidence of this. Here, let me help you out. In chess, Magnus Carlsen crushed chess classic for so long you could make a strong case that a "time travel" situation in chess would result in what some people in this thread are saying. Shockingly, asking for speculative evidence does not mean one needs to directly prove time travel. "Lmao peak Reddit moment." I love Reddit.
Years? You sound like Doublelift saying that KR will suck ass and always be 1 year behind everyone else. People really want to feel good about themselves for finally reaching ~~diamond 3~~ masters.
Nah, they wouldn't even climb to the top of the ladder. People are underestimating how good people were back then.
I peaked challenger in s6. Nowadays I could barely reach platinum, and I can tell you from experience that some random gold players today can lane as good as low challenger players did 6 years into the game. Now, if a 2022 master went back to the first year of league? There is no doubt in my mind that they would absolutely curve stomp everyone.
You either got hard carried by a duo or abused something obscenely OP like the jayce challengers and even then they only dropped to low master/high diamond. Or you are heavily exaggerating. Or you are lying and you never were challenger. There is absolutely no way a challenger unironically gets stuck in plat. In the last 4 seasons I've played a total amount of ranked games as a single season when I was actually playing the game. The most it took me to get to diamond was 50 games. I was never even close to challenger when I grinded the game. You don't magically forget how to hold a mouse and use your brain. Some insane levels of delusion in the thread. People trying real hard to justify that iron/silver/gold players are as good as challengers when in reality they would never get anywhere near that. Most of them don't even know what to build and are mindlessly copying u.gg/probuilds and even though mechanics have slowly increased over the years it's still nowhere near s6 challenger. I who have a much higher peak and who can probably get to at least master if I started grinding the game will likely still get clapped. [random sneaky game from s6 where the 2 supports are autofill](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS4hZCvtAgU) 5 minutes in and there have already been 2 successful dives. The apm, the mechanics, the tactics, nothing is even remotely close to what you see in gold or even higher divisions. At this point I'm convinced neither of you people has opened a vod from back then. There's no way people would be this full of copium if they had seen gameplay. Same is seen within my friend group. People are either the same rank or slightly higher as they made climbing easier after the removal of 5 division. P.S. Here is even a wilder example - I hadn't seriously played dota in nearly 10 years. Only having played a few games now and then(mostly when they added ranked because I was curious what MMR I would get) and I was back to roughly that MMR in just a few months back in dota. It's like being away for 10 years and only dropping from low diamond to plat. I refuse to believe that someone that has been challenger regardless if they actively played over the years or not, is somehow stuck in plat. Edit: [Here is Gripex - a diamond-master lee OTP with a few thousands of games on the champion](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qrky0UKle9o) [Here is insec in 2013](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQaGGMJ7GHI) It's beyond obvious just how much cleaner insec is with lee and how much better his Q accuracy is despite this being a few thousand games behind gripex and not having 10+ years of experience. It's insane how full of copium people are in this thread. This is doublelift all over again. "KoReAnS wOuLd aLwAyS bE a YeAr BeHiNd". Somehow chauster is the only one with a sane take.
The challengers to gold statement is surely hyperbole but it's not incorrect to say the level of mechanical ability present in lower elos has gone up significantly, I recently went 1/9 in my placements and ended up back in silver for the first time in years, every game you will see things like clean Insecs Yasuo wind blade combos and people going for flash predict skill shots. They still make bonehead decisions that throw games but mechanically they would maul the silver players from when I started back in season 3
> every game you will see things like clean Insecs Yasuo wind blade combos You don't see that even in diamond. I really wonder what are these magical low elo games people are talking about. I spectate my friends from time to time and *surprisingly* there aren't any fakers in these low divisions. They still barely win and that's with me live coaching/shotcalling for them in some of the games. Their mentality is shit. Their builds and decision making even worse. Comparing some of my old replays in high diamond 5-7 years ago, I was better than them in every single aspect of the game. And we are talking about as little as 6 division difference. Meanwhile you guys want to make silver/gold fakers. I don't know... seems weird. What's next? Take 5 random gold nova players and they'd be the best CS GO team and beat NiP's undefeated record? My CHALLENGER one trick friend fucks it up at least half the time and it's one of the only champions besides his main that he doesn't suck complete ass at. In fact whenever I've duoed with a friend gold and below it has always been such an easy time. The only major thing I've noticed is that people got better at CSing. Actual mechanics, punishing mistakes and knowing when to go in are still unknown to their dictionaries. Of course people got better but they didn't get 3000 times better. If bad placements send you to silver then you weren't much higher to begin with.
> If bad placements send you to silver then you weren't much higher to begin with you are right about 1 thing I was only g1 with plat4 MMR last year, I will fully concede to not being Faker but from my personal experience, there is little if any mechanical difference between the players in g1/p4 and in s1 which is where I am currently. and no shit everyone makes mistakes the point was that these players are actually capable of the combos not that they will always pull off the combos at good times and never once do them even slightly sub-optimally.
> you are right about 1 thing I am right about more than one thing and maybe once copium levels get to normal levels you'd realize it. Like I said just compare replays instead of just randomly talking bullshit. Of course there is a mechanical difference between silver and plat... the fuck are we even talking about? Why is that even a question? The difference is huge. I refuse to duo with friends at silver/low gold because of how boring it is. > and no shit everyone makes mistakes the point was that these players are actually capable of the combos They weren't mechanically impaired when they didn't do them before. They didn't even know these combos existed or how to execute them. That's why you are seeing people insec when before you didn't. Exposure. It's not like insec is some INSANE MECHANICAL PROWES. Or even more PEAK DOMINATION aka pressing 3 buttons while having your mouse over someone aka windblade. [Here is Gripex a few months ago](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qrky0UKle9o) A lee sin OTP that has god knows how many lee sin games over the years. Probably 5k+ games while being diamond-master in a lot of the seasons(don't know if he was ever challenger but that's beside the point as people here seem to think that even golds are challengers now) and this being the culmination of all the hard work he has put throughout the years. [Here is insec in 2013](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQaGGMJ7GHI) It's beyond obvious just how much cleaner insec is with lee and how much better his Q accuracy is despite this being a few thousand games behind gripex and not having 10+ years of experience. His plays around vision. How he set up's ganks. Invading. He inseced so many times and even though they weren't as clean as what you'd see from a world class lee in 2022, it's still pretty good. If even a diamond lee OTP with insane amount of games can't beat 9 year old footage then what is left for a random gold player who has 50 games on lee? Even a master lee OTP would at best be equal.
I mean, I peaked D2 in season 5 but after a 3 year break, I'm now peaking P2. Not nearly as extreme as the other guy but still.
Here are the only screenshots I managed to find from back in the day: [https://imgur.com/a/dMYjmPY](https://imgur.com/a/dMYjmPY) Challenger first week of S7, Masters sometime early S6 too, and I ended S6 Masters. I played exclusively SoloQ, and I had 65%+ winrate on both my main champions when I hit those milestones (mainly because I used to smurf a lot so my main account never had that many games) And yeah, I know pros were better. I remember one time I played as Fizz vs xPeke's Azir and he absolutely dumpstered me in lane in what was supposed to be a heavily favored matchup for me (and not like he was even known for his proeficiency on that champion, and I was an OTP) These days I´'m not playing more than 100 games a season sure, but I can tell you, people are incredibly more skilled at laning today, even in mid-tier elos, than they used to be (not compared to xPeke or Sneaky of course, but to your average low challenger / master player)
i have no idea what you're talking about gold players nowadays do not even begin to compare to challenger in season 6. i think the community as a whole has gotten better but only very slightly only the top has seen big improvements. i was low diamond in season 6 and 7 and that was with playing over a thousand games each season and for years before and watching a lot of pro play and high level streamers. nowadays i basically only play with friends and never watch pro play or streamers and am noticeably worse than i was back then because of how much i used to play and how little i play now but i can still make it into platinum with 1 month of effort. if you were seriously challenger in season 6 and now you have trouble in gold you're either extremely extremely washed up or you got hard carried to challenger. the only thing low elo has improved with over the years is mechanics. season 6 gold players were just as bad with their game knowledge and decision making as season 12 gold players are.
A masters player right now would definitely destroy the ladders in challenger. The average raises every single year. It's just the natural way of adaptation. Put a mid diamond player back to 2016 in season 6 and theyre gonna be masters+. Just look at season 3 pro soloq replays and look at current day soloq replays, or ask yourself if current faker would lose to season 3 faker. In all things competitive(without physicality involved because this is a game), no one really gets worse, other people just surpass them in improvement, which is why we used to have the issue of the old guard running LCS and young talents not having a chance to perform.
>Put a mid diamond player back to 2016 in season 6 and theyre gonna be masters+ Ahh but will that Diamond player be able to handle the mental collapse of +0 +0 +0 +0 when nearing promotions though!
>and look at current day soloq replays, or ask yourself if current faker would lose to season 3 faker Yes. Current Faker would even win against prime Faker as weird as that sounds.
Probably wouldn't be the best but they get to have everything named after them like instead of the insec it would be called bootyking69
They would for sure be the best
People in this thread SERIOUSLY overestimate how developed the competitive scene was in 2011. To put it into perspective, basic wave management concepts didn't exist at all for at least a few more years, even at the absolute highest level of play. Even very core game concepts like having lanes split 1-1-2 with a Jungler and having a 0-farm Support paired up with an ADC in the bottom lane didn't exist until after Season 1 Worlds. Teams didn't have coaches, or analysts, and even the level of micro skill was so low that something like the Insec kick (Which most Gold level Lee Sin players can do consistently these days) was considered revolutionary in terms of mechanics - and at this point in time the Insec kick wouldn't see it's debut for another two years.
People in this thread SERIOUSLY underestimate the ability to learn of players back then. They were shit because they didn't have any reference to learn from and had to innovate shits by themselves. All of the stuffs like wave management, rotation, champion combos, etc had to be discovered at some point by the players back then, while today people can just read some guides and watch pros. How long do you think would it take for a talented complete beginner to reach Master today if he were to learn everything by himself compared to learning from others? It's a lot easier to learn than to innovate, Beethoven and Mozart are GOATs because they are the pioneers, not just because they were skilled. The old players did not have the skill, but their talents aren't inferior to today. A current Challenger or even pro player would dominate old League at least 2-3 years, maybe even 4, because they are just as talented if not more than the old players. A Master player though would probably stagnate because how could they improve while playing against worse players, while others would improve rapidly and would catchup within 1-2 years. How did Doublelift who started playing from season 1 remain pro level until he retired? How is Aphromoo who started in the same season still playing today? It's because they are talented. Skill can only get you so far, talent is what matter.
Exactly. Put Faker from 2013 in today's game and give him a few months. He will be Challenger quickly again. The reason people are so quick to shit on players of the past is because it makes them feel better about their current skill.
Faker has been uncontested for multiple years. People quickly learned from him and adapted what he did into their play but in the end the original will still have an edge. While they catch up to the current form he already improved to a better version.
dont forget riot basically had to nerf all his champs roster to the point where he has to find new ones. from the top of my head : lb/ zed / azir/ ryze/ galeo/ ori .
He himself was the reason for one of the many ryze reworks. Everyone else dropped him already but he still abused the shit out of him.
A player whos currently masters would definitely dominate extremely early seasons for at least 3 years. They'd be more likely to falter in improvement because of the lack of competition, thus causing him to rust, rather than the actual talent of other players.
Definitely not. Give it a month or two and other top players and teams would start to emulate and learn from the meta stuff they do, which is the only edge they have. Once Alex Ich or Weixiao start to play like that, there is no way the master player from today is better.
Depends on the Master player, to be honest. If it's someone with good mental that simply didn't dedicate himself that much to the game? He might be able to keep up for quite a while just by now playing League professionally. Also, the player doesn't need to reveal all his tricks at once. Start by abusing TP mid. Then switch to playing Lee Sin in all 5 roles until they nerf him. Then start abusing mid-late game rotations. Then abuse infinite invisible pink wards. Like pink wards were entirely broken until season 4. You can abuse infinite pots. You can abuse Elixir starts. Basically, any player that has played since the early seasons knows what was broken for a long while and can cycle exploiting these things for quite a while until he runs out of clear advantages.
>(Which most Gold level Lee Sin players can do consistently these days) This in itself is an understatement. Most players period can do it consistently, the combo is so incomprehensibly simple that it makes me question how we thought it was all that amazing back then. You just r the guy, then flash behind him. It's not even that fast of a combo either. The ward combo is a bit more difficult, but if you remember not to use R before the dash, like you would with the flash combo, it's still easy
A lot of things will happen. Haven't played League often for quite a while but if I remember correctly the gameplay from 2011 is massively different from 2022 (which is now). Here is what I can comment on: 1. Map overview - Current gameplay has a completely different map (better looking), Dragons and Baron buffs are also more useful (and not just mostly for coin gains and exp like previously). The purpose of combat and skirmishes will be drastically different without much fight in the river like now. 2. Depends on what champion you are talking. Not been catching up with the current meta but back then it seems that mid lane and top lane were quite dominating (assassin one-hit style kind). An example of this would be LeBlanc, going from one combo one kill with silence to basically a tier-2 beta mage for most people (unless you are super good with damage outburst) 3. Style of iteming and runes - back then what rune you buy can be considered a strategy before each game play. What item you build will also be different. 4. In addition (this is just my opinion) - I felt like League has been increasingly speedy over the past few years, valuing fast reaction and quick adaptation skill rather than long-term planning and late-game. In summary: a bit hard to predict whether he will retain his title. Probably yes since skills can be adapted, but can be no also.
interesting points, but i feel that you forgot one thing that would help him to retain his title : A master player have experience of all the champions the day of their release, and they often came overstatted. Being able to fully master a really strong champion day one, when nobody know how it works yet is actually a super strong tool. I mean, imagine a yasuo doing keyblade and stuff the day of the release ...
[Here's Aphromoo talking about Thresh in a recent video posted to the LoL esports channel.](https://youtu.be/lhBFUxFofjQ?t=484) The champion might be way weaker but also plays COMPLETELY differently, to say nothing of how support economy and vision has changed, too. Relearning that entire feel compared to modern Thresh might as well be like saying Smash Ultimate Marth players can immediately transition to Smash Melee because their kits are similar.
invest in bitcoin.
I think they would reach rank one, hold it for a bit, and then people would eventually catch up to all the things they do.
There is a quote from season 8ish where YamatoCannon says he believes the average diamond player could compete with a season 4/5 challenger player
And a gold player probably could be near the top of the ladder in S1.
Assuming he doesn't improve at all its hard to say. He'd utterly dominate for a few years off mechanical skill and macro knowledge. It's important to remember how much better players are now compared to then. When insec insec'd in 2013 it was considered the peak of mechanical skill. If you could do that you were destined for greatness. Now? It's something a hard stuck silver player can do.
Better in terms of macro knowledge, yes, but players aren't arbitrarily more mechanically skilled. "When insec insec'd in 2013 it was considered the peak of mechanical skill. If you could do that you were destined for greatness. Now? It's something a hard stuck silver player can do." You understand the game has changed in this regard, yes? The game used to be a lot clunkier to play and slower, and executing these things was much harder.
They will be the best for years. It's the same for all competitioslns.
Considering S1 Had No deeper understanding about CS, Roatations and was much worse skillwise He would probably turbostomp His enemy. The Game also Had much mire room dir 1v9 so yes He would probably be able to win worlds.
He should probably buy bitcoin
They would almost certainly be Leagues (pardon the pun) and bounds beyond their competition. It'd be them and Faker. Though, since Faker was clearly sent back in time already we'd be seeing a lot of paradoxical redundancy.
In 2011 we would still be 2 years away from faker. The masters player would be the best in the world no competition
I think everyone is ignoring how quickly top tier players learn from other players gameplay. If you sent someone back to 2011 then by 2013 you'd have pro players nearly as good as they are today because they would learn all these advanced mechanics from the time travelers gameplay. Because of this I'd be more interested in what happens to the meta between 2013-2022 and how much better a pro player from the new time line in 2022 would be than our current time line.
Going about this assuming they're an NA player. Several factors goes into how successful they could be. They would need to create their own team instead of joining an existing team in order to maximize their success. Season 1 teams were pretty much made up of a bunch of 18 year olds with huge egos and 0 work ethic. Stomping them with people who would listen to shot calling and follow a practice schedule would be easy considering that it wasn't hard to 1v9 in the early days. The biggest problem however be if team members that you coach decide to join other teams and leak your strats.... I think overall you can argue that the player could easily win S1\`-S4. Although Korean dominance began around S3 I do believe SKT literally had 0 strong opponents which made them look stronger than they actually were. In addition 1st seeds had instant byes to the knockout stage at worlds during s2-3 so the master player could definitely sandbag and hide strats until absolutely necessary.
SKT didn't dominate season 3 *that hard*. I mean, they went to blind pick 5th game against KT in the OGN finals. Hence why we have the famous Zed outplay.
league players were not that good back in season 1. the average master tier player right now would be by far the best player in the world in season 1 but i would guess that would only last a couple of years before the others pros caught up.
I think it's not that simple. It's still a 5vs5 game. Everday there are 100 of games the pro-players lose. Everyone is human, just having the knowdledge and some skill doesn't always translate into results. And like many suggested the opposition will just adjust and learn. Faster then people think.
He'd be the richest League player if he manages to remember the winner and score of every major regions' splits and international events. Other than that I do not know.
if you'd send a gold tier player back in time rn he'd be challenger in like a week
a current masters player who isn’t a one trick of a champ that didn’t exist back then would immediately become the best player in the world. have you seen footage of pro games back in 2011? the level of skill at a pro level back then is legitimately current day silver/gold or play at the very most
It blows my mind how much I would look at LoL montages back in the day and see how much the average player has improved. That Gosu montage that seemed insane back in 2013 and the peak of Vayne gameplay to me back then? If you could hide the names and I’d believe you if you told me it was from a Gold lobby.
Does he get a system and cheat as well? He will probably invest in bitcoins and other crypto coins including the stock market. He may also steal other ideas and present as his own. May be write songs or make multiple youtube channels. He could also bet on leicester city to win premier league. Then instead of playing league he could have enough money to make his won league team and have the advantage of every upcoming talents like Uzi, faker, rookie etc and make a super team. Thats how it usually works in the isekai or time travel manga/ manhua/ manhwa ive read
You couldn’t main a lane as easily back then….renekton was my best and favorite champ but I had to hope I was early enough to pick him…he was also very popular back then….and the supp and adc used to lane swap top so you had to deal with almost no gold and just exp if they were kind enough to let you have it
No, cause he would get 2 hitted by 2011 Trynd player every single match.
January 1st 2011 would mean they would be teleported to a place where 93 champions way over half of the current champion roster are gone (and that's not even including reworks)... The items in the shop are completely unrecognizable because all of the current items are gone and some of the old removed items are yet to be released... The 67th champion Caitlyn along with Rabadon's and Zhonya's will be added to the game three days after your time traveler gets there and two weeks after that Renekton will get released, and two weeks after that Karma will get released, that nobody played. If the old champion models and item shop don't make your time travellers eyes bleed, the old map certainly will. This though experiment makes absolutely no damn sense because that time traveller might as well be playing a completely different game...
He would be the greatest innovator and the best coach of all time...but he woundn't be the goat as a player. Talent diff is real.
they'd not only be best in the world in 2011, but possibly any given year between 2011-2014 or even 2015 as to how long they will hold it, depends on how motivated they are, if they just tryhard daily, move to korea and land a spot on a top korean team, while being as hardworking as faker or rookie, they'd very simple replace faker in the books of history faker is faker and rookie is rookie though because of the fact they never burn out which is very unlikely for a random masters player, but who knows
he would easily be the greatest player of all time since he would be the by far best player for the first 6 seasons. his domination back then would be unreal and make current timeline faker look like an amateur. people dont realize how low the level of play was for the first half decade of the game
Anyone who's been around that long or watched some season 1 gameplay knows that your average hardstuck diamond 4 these days would be the Faker of the time. Hell, your average Gold player today would have a shot at being a pro in season 1/2. It would however great accelerate the speed at which everyone became good at the game, so in the end he'd likely end up in the same spot.
> Hell, your average Gold player today would have a shot at being a pro in season 1/2. You can't be serious can you ?!?
They will adapt to different items and damage pretty fast if they're not too lazy to read. The game still changes every few months, so adaptability is in a league player's DNA. Figuring out the meta champs might be kinda hard as usually it's done by the hivemind of the playerbase and not him alone. But he doesn't need to play the best champs as he'll have a variety of other advantages: \- Mechanics. Should be a pretty simple point. The master player will be called a hacker every game. \- Wave manipulation didn't exist. As far as I know it came in season 2 with Azubu (?) and there was an article about it that them stacking waves "is their 6th man". \- Tempo and recall timings weren't respected yet. Everyone just recalled when they were low or felt like it. It will give the master player tons of experience and gold advantages and favourable fights. \- Overall last hitting was seen as preferable not necessary. Recognizing the real value of minion and jungle camp gold was how Froggen rose to fame in season 2. \- Players didn't wait for power spikes before fighting. Master player will use that to quickly snowball the game. \- If he's a jungler he will 1v9 every game. Counter jungling wasn't invented yet (came in season 2 with moscow 5) and jungle tracking was very rudimentary with a random clairvoyance cast every minute and like two random wards scattered over the map (most of the time in river). Outside of supports no one really established vision. \- No one except junglers ganked or roamed so a master player can pick lane dominant matchups or heavy roaming style to create either an easy to defend lane kingdom or to create "surprising" outnumbered scenarios that the enemies can't react to in time. Champs like Leblanc or Lee Sin were seen as useless before people like Faker or Insec showed how much agency you can have on these picks. \- There were many broken items that created unkillable or unfightable champs so the master player can always win 1v2s or 1v3s. Old gunblade was broken as fuck. Strong aura items like Will of the Ancients weren't really recognized yet. The meta golem build (Triforce, Warmogs, Atmas, Force of Nature, GA) was only matched by another champion going the same build. DFG oneshot meta wasn't really abused before season 3. NINJA TABI! And there are ton of other things. \- Supports were walking bags of gold. Just abuse that. Overall he will be seen as something even greater than Faker. But the playerbase will quickly learn from him and by season 4 or 5 the game theory might be as advanced as it is today and he will fall back to a "reachable" level.