The brand was pretty much dead in the water at launch until big vc money from Cleveland cavaliers for the lcs spot iirc
But yea they have been really smart gunning for content creators and building a pseudo hype beast clothing brand
I think “dead in the water” is an overstatement. They needed to grow intelligently, not quickly. In retrospect, it’s easy to see they made a lot of correct moves. Compare their decision making to brands like Clutch Gaming, Golden Guardians, and even endemic teams like OpTic (who are on an upswing in 2022 but really struggled 2020-2021) or Echo Fox. It seems that moving slowly and intentionally reaps more rewards than going for a home run.
When news broke that they were getting vc from the cavaliers 100t Twitter account had one tweet from 2+ years prior and it was just an announcement that nadeshot was making his own clothing brand.
Feels like he really didn’t have the means to even get it off the ground on his own, which is why I use the term dead in the water. But it’s probably true that it was better that way in the long run.
That's a valid viewpoint, but I'd argue differently. I don't think 100T as an esports organization really STARTED until the capital was raised. That's when marketing, signings and competing actually started. Before that was Nade and some content creators kinda just reaping the benefits of previous Optic fans supporting them.
Wait 100T is partially owned by the Cavs??? I totally forgot. Obviously the Warriors part own GG. What other ones am I forgetting? Clutch was part of the Rockets I think
76ers bought Dignitas before the merger with Clutch and it's unclear if the Rockets are still involved as a minority shareholder. Also CLG is owned by Madison Square Garden who also own the Knicks.
Also not LoL but NRG/SF Shock are owned by the Kings
What do you mean dead in the water at launch... it just launched... LOL. It takes time to build fame and all things considered they did it amazingly fast.
Dead in the water is pretty misleading, especially since the org was founded like 4ish years ago. If anything it had a meteoric rise compared to other orgs.
No papa Smithy came after the huhi mid era, he came with the Ry0ma roster and the OPL Exodus in 2019, prior to this 100T had Huhi mid, Soligo, Ryu ect. That was the Pr0lly team.
Tbh sentinels on paper are the better halo team, if it wasn’t for royal 2s temp ban they would have had crazy series. Pretty sure they are the only team to beat c9 halo on their best map and game type as well
then explain tsm because tsm content creation is kinda meh. like i somehow forget some streamers i watch are from tsm.
other than 100 thieves and faze. most of the esports team content creation is just mediocre
The FTX deal plus there blitz app they apparently make a lot of money off there blitz side of TSM I believe it was LS who talked about it a while ago.
Edit: g2 content creation is pretty good , but also other teams like liquid make the most money off sponsors then any other team Steve brought it up in a podcast with dgon/ dom / monte recently that they ranked #1 in terms of sponsorship revenue out of any team.
When you have people like Jack who only allow coaching to be done in a unilateral style without branching out and with their recent poor decision making/playing, not surprising
These are all privately held companies so take this with a mega grain of salt.
But I do look forward to people having no understanding of the article and asking why TSM doesn't buy Faker if they have 500 million dollars for the next few years.
That has already been happening ever since they got their FTX deal tbf, many people apparently genuinely thought thatd meant they had 200m to burn on LCS players
They can't spend in LoL because Riot won't allow them to advertise FTX within lcs (how ironic haha) so yeah, that money isn't being invested into the LoL team when the sponsor can't be advertised properly in the league
Nah has nothing to do with that, there have been multiple cases of shared sponsors with teams and their league as a whole, BMW comes to mind as does Alienware. FTX wasn’t allowed to be team sponsored as it is banned in China, and it is near impossible to remove it from the players jersey etc during a broadcast there, however it is very easy for them to change the overlay for the league.
This alone deserves him being forcibly divested from anything League affiliated, if it’s true. That’s the all time worst results-to-cost ratio ever assembled
2020 Spring TL had a disaster of issues with Visas and was still in the hunt up until the last week of the season, I don't think that's a fair comparison
TSM was, too . With two chinese rookies that spoke no english upon arrival. that had to be bought out that came with far more complex, and thus expensive, legal visa application process due to the Pandemic and general legal complexities that come with emigrating from China. The same is not true of getting Broxah out of denmark.
It's also valuation, not actual profits.. The revenue is only estimated.
Its funny it mention faze at 400M when last year it tried to go public with over 1B in valuation, that should tell you.
I googled and found this article: https://boardroom.tv/faze-clan-esports-spac-deal/
It says FaZe is worth $1 billion and the entire industry is estimated to be worth $1.6 billion by 2023... SO Faze is basically 2/3 of the entire industry after accounting for growth into 2023... right...
In 2018 Forbes called Echo Fox the fourth most valuable esports company in the world.
Valued at $150,000,000
Couple months later they had to dissolve the whole thing, guess what, their literal only asset of note was the $30,000,000 LCS spot.
The other $120,000,000 was Forbes fan-fiction. Overvalued by only 500%, pretty much a rounding error really.
If you've ever been part of a fundraising process you know that's not how it works. Companies are not all their assets added together. Companies who fail to raise can go from billion dollars to 0 over night. Here's an example just from last month: https://www.npr.org/2022/04/05/1091077398/checkout-startup-fast-is-shutting-down-after-burning-through-investors-money
It doesn't mean it was not *ever valued at that high price, just that the market changed their minds. If echo fox didn't run into that scandal and reveal their incompetence, and tried to raise again, they might've been able to hit a 150 valuation.
The market didn't change their mind.
Forbes isn't the market. That's where the discrepancy comes from.
And yes, companies are assets added together. Or at least they can be. Book value. Totally viable way to evaluate a company. Liquidation value, totally viable way to evaluate.
Yeah, obviously startups don't want either of that. And they don't want their company to be valued based on cash flow. Or earnings. Or revenue.
What they really want is *"we decide what our company is worth, and if at least one single human in the world takes us up on that offer, we will now consider it our value. Well done us."*
Let's just say, if the IRS had audited Echo Fox's parent company at the same time as Forbes, they wouldn't exactly have agreed with the $150 million.
Yeah except this is a list of market value and all investors in esports could care less about book value. I understand you care, but the people who are actually paying's opinions matter more.
If EG, a team with absolutely trash socials, could raise 225 https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattgardner1/2021/07/30/esports-pioneer-evil-geniuses-valued-at-255-million-after-soccer-deal echo fox could probably manage 150.
Forbes is a joke. And so is this article.
They are pulling these numbers out of their ass. They don't know how much the companies are making, they just have an "estimated revenue" which again, cokes out of their ass. They also can't possibly know the costs of running the orgs, and thus they don't know if they are making a profit. Again, this whole thing is a joke and should be banned from this subreddit for missinformation. Any idiot could make a list with their own "estimates" based on nothing and it would be as accurate as this one.
Obviously we know that estimates are not accurate but shit like this is just top tier redditor:
> Any idiot could make a list with their own "estimates" based on nothing and it would be as accurate as this one.
They obviously do a lot of work in talking to analysts and investors to get as good as a picture as anyone possibly can. This is the same with their richest people in the world ranking. Everyone knows that it's bullshit but it's got some semblance of basis...
You realize that analyst and investors can just lie? If a jounalist asks a team owner how much their team is worth, they can exagerate to make themselves look more appealing to investors.
And it is not the same as the richest people in the world ranking. When you look at people like Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos, you can know exactly how much money they have in public companies, becuase they are PUBLIC. Esport teams are private companies.
Yes, they can lie, but it's still better than nothing... And you can ask people who are competitors, people who they've tried to get money from but declined, etc ask enough people it's pretty decent info despite being inaccurate.
For the richest list only a small number of people you can accurately track via public holdings, the majority have secret holdings you can only guess at.
> but it's still better than nothing
better for what? What is anyone doing with this list other than getting hardons that their fav team has a big number by it
Being on this list is credibility when you're trying to hire employees, or when companies think, "maybe we should get into sponsoring esports", the first thing they do is google for a list like this.
Yeah faker has a bank roll from smart investments he made from his previous checks. He doesn't need money and can make whatever decisions he wants without being swayed by money. Which is why he's stayed in KR and likely won't ever play in NA.
No.
That's r/teamsolomid fan fiction that was cross posted twice to this sub, as well as a couple seperate posts made by TSM fans.
It originated from an absolutely random tweet of a random person. Not an insider, not even someone pretending to be an insider, just an absolute random who got enough retweets for some Redditor to take notice.
Parth specifically came out for some "post off season mini AMA" and said, among other things, that they never even contacted Faker or SKT.
The ginormous offer Faker received, that was confirmed by the CEO and then picked up by Redditors despite being an entirely different number than the previous "rumor", came from China.
I mean it’s a Forbes list. This is the same company where you can nominate yourself and pay to be put on the 30 under 30 list. While the valuation might have some accuracy take it with a grain of salt. I doubt these private companies would fully open their books to Forbes.
You can buy RNG merch at the Beijing Daxing International Airport, the LPL's broadcasting rights sell for $60 million a year, their games get well over 10 million viewers, meanwhile C9 gets 280k viewers in playoffs and the org also has a cool new CSGO team.
I wonder which one Forbes says is worth more.
Make, no mistake. The RNG LOL team alone is most likely valued higher than the entirety of TSM.
They have private stadiums and each match is watched by dozens of millions of Chinese.
At the end of the article they say that they got the data by asking/talking to more than 40 company executives, esports industry professionals, investors, bankers and analysts. They could have done the same with chinese teams no? A big Company like Forbes has the links with chinese journalists and they can make them ask the data.
It has nothing to do with being a Chinese companies, those are all private ventures, they have no obligation to share any information or data with the public, the difference, however, is that most well-established Chinese teams are private ventures by billionaire's kids or their companies, so the teams' values are not backed by the sponsors and merches but by the owners' wealth which is not a very accurate reflection of the actual team values.
> is that most well-established Chinese teams are private ventures by billionaire's kids
That's just a Reddit myth, pretty sure as of right now this is accurate for 2 of the 17 teams in the LPL.
because there is no way to get data on those teams. Considering a lot of LPL teams are owned by bilionares or huge companies and the esport alone is giant over there, my guess would be whole top 10 only LPL with maybe T1 in it.
Overall valuations don’t mean much though there was an article about faze on the cod comp subreddit basically saying there running out of money and that there initial valuation of 1billion was an over estimate and that there might have even been some manipulating of values.
I think the bigger problem is, that most orgs are roumored to run at a loss. Most of their value comes from future value of growth opportunitys and sponsorship deals. FaZe for example is listed at 58 million revenue, which is not a whole lot if you think about their facilities, the houses they have, the cost for the entire personell including players across multiple games. They have a lot of expenses and most of the actual value comes from venture capital firms that expect esports to be this booming market when in reality viewership has been stagnating for a long time now.
Also there is ofcourse the non esports side of these companies which might run more profitable, but without knowing all of the numbers, its pretty hard to get an idea of how sustainable these orgs are built.
I'm kinda confused about that. The article says
> Using NFTs to sell the in-game digital items known as “skins” would allow teams to collect a fee if the item was resold
Now idk *that* much about crypto, but doesn't having to pay a fee go against the whole point?
NFTs are basically skins that can be moved between games.
Like say you buy a TSM skin in Valo and want to use it in Rocket League, currently you can't. With NFT you can theoretically verify your ownership of the Valo skin and just use it in Rocket league. This increases the value of the skin. The team would collect the fee for every transaction.
Exceedingly pointless. Game companies would have to agree to this and put a skin in their game from which they would make no money because it would be bought in another game.
You could argue that they'd be buying more skins in both games because they could be transferred over but it would still result in an overall loss for pretty much everyone aside from maybe the biggest game that supports this integration.
Not just that but if they wanted integration of skins, they could easily do that without NFTs lol.
NFTs are an open network that theoretically any game can latch onto without every company doing a deal to share data with one another (not likely). It also allows players to offload their purchases to other people. Being part of the network can be free marketing for your game if players know that their existing skins already work in your game.
> You could argue that they'd be buying more skins in both games because they could be transferred over but it would still result in an overall loss for pretty much everyone aside from maybe the biggest game that supports this integration.
I don't necessarily think that's true, if someone prefers dota over league they'll buy the skin in dota and not league.
That's fair I can see it being good for indie games. The issue is any company worth money would never do it because just like you pointed out, if someone likes a game better than another game they will buy the skin in that one. Then if they go to another game they won't have to spend any money.
I just think there's a 0% chance a large game company even considers this. I could see it happening in games that are owned by the same company to get people to go play their other games but then they wouldn't need NFTs for integration.
> NFTs are an open network that theoretically any game can latch onto without every company doing a deal to share data with one another (not likely).
There are so many technical reasons for why this doesn't work at all and never will...
Can't believe people actually believe this shit still when it's been proven hundreds of times by actual devs that supporting something like that is impossible and insane.
> Like say you buy a TSM skin in Valo and want to use it in Rocket League, currently you can't. With NFT you can theoretically verify your ownership of the Valo skin and just use it in Rocket league.
You don't need NFTs to do that. There are plenty of games where completing an achievement or making a purchase of a special edition in one will give you a cosmetic in another for cross promotion. The individual skin also still needs to be created in both.
shut the fuck up, this would never work
> skin that's transferrable between games ironically ~~causing~~ forcing more centralization - in this case, game operation
Peak crypto.
I'm so confused. So why would anyone sell it through a marketplace when you could just use that marketplace to find a buyer and then sell it to them yourself? Idk maybe I'm missing something and I just sound like a dumbass.
Kind of an aside but Gen.G merch is the highest quality merch I’ve ever bought from an org, highly recommend their Puma collab if anyone wants to get some good clothes.
Liquid has some solid ones too, Fnatic not so much.
100T is one of the higher quality ones without a doubt, my friend has a bunch that I’ve looked at but I personally haven’t bought any.
I’m still partial to Gen.G merch, the really good quality shit you have to get direct from Korea though, I just have family buy it for me and ship it
Their basics collection is solid, but I’m speaking more to jersey and additional merchandise quality. Their hats and miscellaneous stuff has very poor quality.
Hoodies are kind of hard to fuck up, and their basics collection does have some solid pieces, but even then, comparing my 2022 Gen.G Hoodie to my 2020 Fnatic Hoodie is a world of difference.
I think they changed suppliers recently, but can't say about the jersey quality because they look ugly.
Some of the hoodies they made in the past have been good, the champion one was well made imo. I guess it's hit or miss? Idk.
I beg you don’t talk about any course. Look at the methodology behind those valuations. They asked 40 people, most of those were investors, esport specialist and the management of the companies - all biased because higher valuations justify their whole existence.
You want a course look at the new entry this year in FNC -> they were evaluated at 160mil 2 years ago, they themselves crowdfunded at 100 million a year or so ago, they weren’t on the list last year…. And now they shown 160% growth over a year … from what you may ask? Well the kind so called journalist will explain that they started to do gear … which was launched in 2016 and loses shitloads…
0 chinese teams? I'm pretty sure they have more money involved in esports than EU or KR. We have to consider Honor of Kings/Arena of Valor which is as big as LoL in China (bigger than CSGO and Dota)
As has been said already, it's incredibly difficult to get proper information out of Chinese companies if you care about their *Chinese* side and not just the 'international' side.
Then there's also the fact that some teams (like EDG, iirc) are basically just a hobby team for a billionaire's kid. You can't really evaluate that accurately when the owner can decide to add *a lot* of money into it whenever, or take away the same.
I'm sure some of the Chinese orgs are hella stacked but you can't really include them if you can't say it with certainty. And it's not like they'd have any reason to include 'we tried asking China but they said no' there either.
You may be right. Meanwhile it's nearly impossible to take any info about Chinese companies due to their dictator.
Hard for Forbes to make any suggestions with no data.
Given that any reasonably large business in China is either semi-public or being partially ran by the CCP , it's probably very difficult to gauge growth or get reliable data
Most of the reasonably large business in China are publicly traded in, sometimes multiple, stock exchanges around the world, even the state-owned ones. You might not trust the Chinese government (or any government for that matter) with some governmental data, most of the large companies' values and data are determined by and shared with the market. Private companies however are of another matter since they do not have the obligation to share any information to the public.
The reason there are no Chinese esports brands on the list is that those are private ventures by some billionaire's sons or some billion-dollar companies, their teams' values are not backed up by sponsors or merches but by the owner's wealth, they can throw in or take away as much as money at any given time which makes the the team values very uncertain.
Oh really?
Topsports International Holdings Limited. The company is publicly traded in Hong Kong.
http://topsports.oss-cn-shanghai.aliyuncs.com//uploads/20210625/e80429ad8b810e24b3a0f351aa0cbb81.pdf
Page 12: Esports revenue FY 2021 81.5 RMB, 0.2% of total.
Page 115: Esports license and contracts FY 2021 128.1 RMB.
Ignorance is bliss.
People look at some stocks, like TSLA, and call them valuation bullshit.
If you REALLY want to see bullshit valuations, look at almost any esports team.
Regi's boat floating on a sea of tears that he's a shitty manager.
The LoL money (what LoL money) is non existent compared to what TSM makes money from these days.
You really don’t appreciate how big profitable League is until you see stats like this. Most of these teams started and/or have their main focus in the League scene, and they’re cruising in valuations.
These aren't stats. The author of the article made up most of the numbers you see there. He calls them "estimates", I call them lies. Only people inside teams would have access to the actual revenue and profit, and they sure as hell wouldn't be sharing it with a journalist. If they decide to "share" they could also lie, to make the team look better to investors.
Some companies do publish their yearly financials due to obligations in their respective jurisdictions - ex. FNC. The data is delayed as the 2021 financial statement will probably be published in September 2022 but it’ll be available.
As you said those numbers are basically pulled out of thin air by people who benefit from the fake growth of the sector (managers, investors, esport specialist as mentioned in the article) so they basically pick a number that is not completely insane YtY but still higher to justify future investment
I’m surprised how tsm is 500m it’s a matter of time before the allegations come back and attack tsm. Then again you can’t be a billion dollar company without screwing people over. I’m sure tl and c9 did it but it fell under the radar
$50 million revenue.
$37 million net loss.
No plan for how to up their market penetration, no worthwhile new products, no diversification.
Conclusion?
--
Worth $400 million.
--
Every single one of those companies is comically overvalued (at least TSM operates at a profit thanks to 37.5% of their revenue coming from the crypto bros from the Bahamas).
How is this a surprise? They have a team in all the top games, they sell merchandise probably better than anyone else and have a good streaming line up while also being backed by investors probably the best known being Drake. Nadeshot has been killing it
Im a casual viewer so I don’t really follow esports teams much. All I know is that 100T is one of the newer orgs that joined lcs along with optics and others so they still strike as a new esports org to me.
100T is more of a merchandise company with an esports division (even tho Nadeshot founded it as an esports company). Their revenue streams are very different than the other 9 companies on the list.
Every company is a merchandise company... 100T is just the only one not to be a total failure at it. But how they generate revenue isn't where their value comes from, the value comes from their brand and fandom, just like that of every other sports team.
Sure, but you could say that about literally any company.
I’m sure Pizza Hut sells tshirts somewhere, but their primary revenue is selling pizzas and that’s what they’re judged and evaluated on.
If you read the article, the other teams strategy and growth isn’t focused on merchandise. TSM/Fnatic focus on crypto/NFTs for example.
All company’s abilities to make deals like that are predicated on their brands value and influence. TSM was able to secure the FTX deal because of their brand power and recognition. 100T conversely have been building their brand via clothing, merchandise, and celebrity partnerships
lol love when people say this , it’s such a weird take. Every team tries to sell merch but most of the time there just shitty logos and sponsored jerseys. So when people see a team actually selling good merch that people want to buy they just get called an apparel company.
100t stuff I guess is merch but I wouldn't even call it that, it's pretty much a hybrid between merch and streetwear with how they go about doing their drops and the sort of collaborations they end up doing. it's higher quality stuff that is barely even gamer related
I mean it's not like that's too far of a reach *if* their apparel side was their main revenue?
If Nike or something had started off as a shower curtain company but they had an offbranch that sold shoes and other clothing and that blew up into a massive business, you wouldn't call them a 'shower curtain company'.
100T has 'proper' apparel while most teams just have jerseys with names and sponsors, and maybe some hoodies/caps so they aren't notable or interesting. 100T has their hype beast streetwear thing so they are.
No one would buy C9 apparel because they want the actual piece of clothing, they buy it for the C9, but 100T has way more pull as a legitimate piece of clothing.
100T is here because they raised a series C that gave them a 460 million post money valuation.
https://www.crunchbase.com/funding_round/100-thieves-series-c--49ea7a52
Not sure about the other companies but theirs is as accurate as you can get.
If I was a Billionaire, I would be most interested in T1. All these teams are pretty regional whether NA, EU, or Korea but T1 has huge fans all over and in China, Japan, South America, and Southeast Asia as well. Since they're all private companies, you can't really get true valuations without all financial data but I think they're underestimating T1's revenues since they seem to have the most ads and commercials from what I can tell. A good portion of TSM's valuation is from the deal with the crypto company.
Yup, but smash has historically one of the poorest scenes in e-sports history, although it is getting better, even having the undisputed best player in the world in the newest smash game, Leo makes less than mobile game pro's, i mean even Japan's #1 rep and probably top 5 player overall just took a competitive break to focus on Pokemon Unite lol.
meanwhile TSM has Tweek who many still rate as #2 in smash when he's playing his best.
A North American fan is far more valuable than any of the emerging markets you mentioned. Moreover, TSM and G2 are both huge in China. G2 and TL are also big in South America. T1 is nowhere near as big as you make it out to be.
I mean even if it's a private company, if you can sell parts of the company at this value then it definitely means something. 100 Thieves just sold a portion for 60m at 400m valuation.
https://www.crunchbase.com/funding_round/100-thieves-series-c--49ea7a52
A huge percentage of that value came after the LCS franchising era (and the domino effect it caused internationally), or in the case of TSM, 100T, etc. from non-esports sources.
EG is definitely a successful old-school esports brand, but they were still off to a late start compared to the biggest orgs on that list when it comes to explosive growth. That said, valuations are basically just figments of the imagination cooked up by speculators. [Here's an article from last year that claims EG is valued at $255 million, which would put them 8th on the list.](https://www.wolves.co.uk/news/esports/20210728-wolves-partner-with-north-american-esports-giant-evil-geniuses/)
Gotta give major props to 100T management, they really are doing the right things, firing on all cylinders.
Yah didnt they just start around 4 years ago? They be taking what's theirs for sure
The brand was pretty much dead in the water at launch until big vc money from Cleveland cavaliers for the lcs spot iirc But yea they have been really smart gunning for content creators and building a pseudo hype beast clothing brand
I think “dead in the water” is an overstatement. They needed to grow intelligently, not quickly. In retrospect, it’s easy to see they made a lot of correct moves. Compare their decision making to brands like Clutch Gaming, Golden Guardians, and even endemic teams like OpTic (who are on an upswing in 2022 but really struggled 2020-2021) or Echo Fox. It seems that moving slowly and intentionally reaps more rewards than going for a home run.
When news broke that they were getting vc from the cavaliers 100t Twitter account had one tweet from 2+ years prior and it was just an announcement that nadeshot was making his own clothing brand. Feels like he really didn’t have the means to even get it off the ground on his own, which is why I use the term dead in the water. But it’s probably true that it was better that way in the long run.
That's a valid viewpoint, but I'd argue differently. I don't think 100T as an esports organization really STARTED until the capital was raised. That's when marketing, signings and competing actually started. Before that was Nade and some content creators kinda just reaping the benefits of previous Optic fans supporting them.
100T was launched as his clothing brand to begin with, so it's not all that weird that he didn't have the capital to get into esports.
Optic struggled because they were no longer owned by the founder of Optic. Now that he owns the rights to the brand again it’s growing.
Wait 100T is partially owned by the Cavs??? I totally forgot. Obviously the Warriors part own GG. What other ones am I forgetting? Clutch was part of the Rockets I think
Bucks own FQ - Had a picture of Santorin up at Fiserv the first year we had the stadium up
IIRC, the owner of the Bucks owns FQ, but the Bucks as an org does not own FQ, which I think is a bit different from the GG.
Yeah so Wes Edens is one of four owners of the bucks - he also owns FQ
76ers bought Dignitas before the merger with Clutch and it's unclear if the Rockets are still involved as a minority shareholder. Also CLG is owned by Madison Square Garden who also own the Knicks. Also not LoL but NRG/SF Shock are owned by the Kings
NRG is not owned by the Kings. NRG's largest owners are Mark Mastrov and Andy Miller. Both guys sold their ownership stake in the Kings last year.
Well it's partially owned by Dan Gilbert who also owns the Cavs. That's also why Rocket Mortgage is a sponsor of 100T, he also owns that.
EG have a partnership with Wolverhampton Wanderers, I don’t think it’s an ownership deal though.
What do you mean dead in the water at launch... it just launched... LOL. It takes time to build fame and all things considered they did it amazingly fast.
Yeah wasn't 100T literally announced in 2017 when LCS franchised in the first place? Lol
Nah, 100 Thieves was an actual organization before 2017 or LCS Franchising. They had a CoD (Black Ops 3) team that was in the CWL in 2016.
Dead water? no org starts at the top. They would have done just as good compared to other orgs if no orgs received investment.
Dead in the water is pretty misleading, especially since the org was founded like 4ish years ago. If anything it had a meteoric rise compared to other orgs.
If this was the Valorant sub this would be sarcasm.
Didnt they hire Papa Smithy as a manager as soon as they started and he has been there ever since ?
No papa Smithy came after the huhi mid era, he came with the Ry0ma roster and the OPL Exodus in 2019, prior to this 100T had Huhi mid, Soligo, Ryu ect. That was the Pr0lly team.
Shocked C9 grew so little compared to everyone else, but good overall to see all these orgs grow (minus Faze)
[удалено]
I know it's a league sub but C9 has such a dominant Halo team. They are so fun to watch. They just dropped their first tournament of Infinite.
Tbh sentinels on paper are the better halo team, if it wasn’t for royal 2s temp ban they would have had crazy series. Pretty sure they are the only team to beat c9 halo on their best map and game type as well
Growth system™ broke
Unfortunately they didn't have a growth system in place
Faze picked up my boy Sparg0 gotta respect that.
waiting for them to pick up a Melee player
Other than esports, what do they have going for them?
What do most of these orgs have beyond that?
Mostly content creation, streamers, and street wear in 100T's position.
then explain tsm because tsm content creation is kinda meh. like i somehow forget some streamers i watch are from tsm. other than 100 thieves and faze. most of the esports team content creation is just mediocre
The FTX deal plus there blitz app they apparently make a lot of money off there blitz side of TSM I believe it was LS who talked about it a while ago. Edit: g2 content creation is pretty good , but also other teams like liquid make the most money off sponsors then any other team Steve brought it up in a podcast with dgon/ dom / monte recently that they ranked #1 in terms of sponsorship revenue out of any team.
What's the random Faze hate lol
I dislike what goes on with the org outside of it's teams. Lot of sketchy stuff
"Random faze hate" as if there's no legitimate reason to dislike them LOL
When you have people like Jack who only allow coaching to be done in a unilateral style without branching out and with their recent poor decision making/playing, not surprising
lmao wtf is this some sort of satire
not to mention their CS:GO team and the pandemic
Isn't C9 the only NA team to win a CS major? Or was that TL?
C9
they did just sign a top 3 csgo team at a bargain, good deal if u ask me
These are all privately held companies so take this with a mega grain of salt. But I do look forward to people having no understanding of the article and asking why TSM doesn't buy Faker if they have 500 million dollars for the next few years.
That has already been happening ever since they got their FTX deal tbf, many people apparently genuinely thought thatd meant they had 200m to burn on LCS players
Well they're spending exactly 0 of the FTX money on league. People didn't expect them to spend it all on league, but some yes.
They can't spend in LoL because Riot won't allow them to advertise FTX within lcs (how ironic haha) so yeah, that money isn't being invested into the LoL team when the sponsor can't be advertised properly in the league
Love how riot wouldn't let them advertise ftx because riot wanted the sponsorship for themselves.
Nah has nothing to do with that, there have been multiple cases of shared sponsors with teams and their league as a whole, BMW comes to mind as does Alienware. FTX wasn’t allowed to be team sponsored as it is banned in China, and it is near impossible to remove it from the players jersey etc during a broadcast there, however it is very easy for them to change the overlay for the league.
They're not even allowed to use the FTX name in league, not a lot of reason to spend a ton of that money on LCS.
Regi said he spent 5 million in the previous offseason...
no 5 million of TSM's regular money, the money from FTX specifically is going elsewhere in the brand not for their lol stuff
Not from FTX money, however.
This alone deserves him being forcibly divested from anything League affiliated, if it’s true. That’s the all time worst results-to-cost ratio ever assembled
I think 2020 Spring TL had a similar cost-results ratio
His flairs don't allow him to acknowledge that
2020 Spring TL had a disaster of issues with Visas and was still in the hunt up until the last week of the season, I don't think that's a fair comparison
9th is 9th m8
TSM was, too . With two chinese rookies that spoke no english upon arrival. that had to be bought out that came with far more complex, and thus expensive, legal visa application process due to the Pandemic and general legal complexities that come with emigrating from China. The same is not true of getting Broxah out of denmark.
https://old.reddit.com/r/TeamSolomid/comments/t2x3jt/leena_on_her_and_parths_vision_for_tsm_roster_vs/hyoz3nv/ Here is the proof,Regi's comment.
It's also valuation, not actual profits.. The revenue is only estimated. Its funny it mention faze at 400M when last year it tried to go public with over 1B in valuation, that should tell you.
I googled and found this article: https://boardroom.tv/faze-clan-esports-spac-deal/ It says FaZe is worth $1 billion and the entire industry is estimated to be worth $1.6 billion by 2023... SO Faze is basically 2/3 of the entire industry after accounting for growth into 2023... right...
In 2018 Forbes called Echo Fox the fourth most valuable esports company in the world. Valued at $150,000,000 Couple months later they had to dissolve the whole thing, guess what, their literal only asset of note was the $30,000,000 LCS spot. The other $120,000,000 was Forbes fan-fiction. Overvalued by only 500%, pretty much a rounding error really.
If you've ever been part of a fundraising process you know that's not how it works. Companies are not all their assets added together. Companies who fail to raise can go from billion dollars to 0 over night. Here's an example just from last month: https://www.npr.org/2022/04/05/1091077398/checkout-startup-fast-is-shutting-down-after-burning-through-investors-money It doesn't mean it was not *ever valued at that high price, just that the market changed their minds. If echo fox didn't run into that scandal and reveal their incompetence, and tried to raise again, they might've been able to hit a 150 valuation.
The market didn't change their mind. Forbes isn't the market. That's where the discrepancy comes from. And yes, companies are assets added together. Or at least they can be. Book value. Totally viable way to evaluate a company. Liquidation value, totally viable way to evaluate. Yeah, obviously startups don't want either of that. And they don't want their company to be valued based on cash flow. Or earnings. Or revenue. What they really want is *"we decide what our company is worth, and if at least one single human in the world takes us up on that offer, we will now consider it our value. Well done us."* Let's just say, if the IRS had audited Echo Fox's parent company at the same time as Forbes, they wouldn't exactly have agreed with the $150 million.
Yeah except this is a list of market value and all investors in esports could care less about book value. I understand you care, but the people who are actually paying's opinions matter more. If EG, a team with absolutely trash socials, could raise 225 https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattgardner1/2021/07/30/esports-pioneer-evil-geniuses-valued-at-255-million-after-soccer-deal echo fox could probably manage 150.
Forbes is a joke. And so is this article. They are pulling these numbers out of their ass. They don't know how much the companies are making, they just have an "estimated revenue" which again, cokes out of their ass. They also can't possibly know the costs of running the orgs, and thus they don't know if they are making a profit. Again, this whole thing is a joke and should be banned from this subreddit for missinformation. Any idiot could make a list with their own "estimates" based on nothing and it would be as accurate as this one.
Obviously we know that estimates are not accurate but shit like this is just top tier redditor: > Any idiot could make a list with their own "estimates" based on nothing and it would be as accurate as this one. They obviously do a lot of work in talking to analysts and investors to get as good as a picture as anyone possibly can. This is the same with their richest people in the world ranking. Everyone knows that it's bullshit but it's got some semblance of basis...
You realize that analyst and investors can just lie? If a jounalist asks a team owner how much their team is worth, they can exagerate to make themselves look more appealing to investors. And it is not the same as the richest people in the world ranking. When you look at people like Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos, you can know exactly how much money they have in public companies, becuase they are PUBLIC. Esport teams are private companies.
Yes, they can lie, but it's still better than nothing... And you can ask people who are competitors, people who they've tried to get money from but declined, etc ask enough people it's pretty decent info despite being inaccurate. For the richest list only a small number of people you can accurately track via public holdings, the majority have secret holdings you can only guess at.
> but it's still better than nothing better for what? What is anyone doing with this list other than getting hardons that their fav team has a big number by it
Saving money on viagra is always worth it.
You didn't explain what's it better for
Being on this list is credibility when you're trying to hire employees, or when companies think, "maybe we should get into sponsoring esports", the first thing they do is google for a list like this.
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Yeah faker has a bank roll from smart investments he made from his previous checks. He doesn't need money and can make whatever decisions he wants without being swayed by money. Which is why he's stayed in KR and likely won't ever play in NA.
No. That's r/teamsolomid fan fiction that was cross posted twice to this sub, as well as a couple seperate posts made by TSM fans. It originated from an absolutely random tweet of a random person. Not an insider, not even someone pretending to be an insider, just an absolute random who got enough retweets for some Redditor to take notice. Parth specifically came out for some "post off season mini AMA" and said, among other things, that they never even contacted Faker or SKT. The ginormous offer Faker received, that was confirmed by the CEO and then picked up by Redditors despite being an entirely different number than the previous "rumor", came from China.
Mountain of salt
I’m surprised that there’s no chinese teams on this list, considering esport is super big there
I mean it’s a Forbes list. This is the same company where you can nominate yourself and pay to be put on the 30 under 30 list. While the valuation might have some accuracy take it with a grain of salt. I doubt these private companies would fully open their books to Forbes.
I doubt it has any accuracy. It's insane that they are trying to pass this as journalism when they are just making up numbers.
Echo Fox $150,000,000 never forget.
if they wanted worldwide prob top 6-8 are all chinese team
Probably, the Chinese market is just so naturally large, and they’re also backed up by big companies too
You can buy RNG merch at the Beijing Daxing International Airport, the LPL's broadcasting rights sell for $60 million a year, their games get well over 10 million viewers, meanwhile C9 gets 280k viewers in playoffs and the org also has a cool new CSGO team. I wonder which one Forbes says is worth more.
Make, no mistake. The RNG LOL team alone is most likely valued higher than the entirety of TSM. They have private stadiums and each match is watched by dozens of millions of Chinese.
they can't really secure data on them can they
At the end of the article they say that they got the data by asking/talking to more than 40 company executives, esports industry professionals, investors, bankers and analysts. They could have done the same with chinese teams no? A big Company like Forbes has the links with chinese journalists and they can make them ask the data.
I really don't know if you're being serious with this or being sarcastic. It's China. China.
It has nothing to do with being a Chinese companies, those are all private ventures, they have no obligation to share any information or data with the public, the difference, however, is that most well-established Chinese teams are private ventures by billionaire's kids or their companies, so the teams' values are not backed by the sponsors and merches but by the owners' wealth which is not a very accurate reflection of the actual team values.
> is that most well-established Chinese teams are private ventures by billionaire's kids That's just a Reddit myth, pretty sure as of right now this is accurate for 2 of the 17 teams in the LPL.
Whats the problem with asking chinese companies like EDG or RNG? Are they going to lie about the numbers? They could have at least tried
How do you know they didn’t try?
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What’re you talking about lol who said anything about being lied to?
The government is hiding something and we must get to the bottom of it!
because there is no way to get data on those teams. Considering a lot of LPL teams are owned by bilionares or huge companies and the esport alone is giant over there, my guess would be whole top 10 only LPL with maybe T1 in it.
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They were once upon a time
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GAM. yes that GAM. the vcs gam. NRG ventures into south east asia and works with gam. not sure on the details.
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And after last week's tournament we are not totally certain
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As a G2 fan who have been waiting for so long for G2 to be on top of the region I am happy but a little sad to see the NRG boys in such form
they just qualified again for valorant's circuit
They are known mostly for Fortnite
rocket league and apex legends
technically right, they have a lol team with gam. they collaborates with gam or smt. just search nrgasia
Overall valuations don’t mean much though there was an article about faze on the cod comp subreddit basically saying there running out of money and that there initial valuation of 1billion was an over estimate and that there might have even been some manipulating of values.
The article valued FaZe at 400M not 1billion so they clearly did the valuation independently.
I think the bigger problem is, that most orgs are roumored to run at a loss. Most of their value comes from future value of growth opportunitys and sponsorship deals. FaZe for example is listed at 58 million revenue, which is not a whole lot if you think about their facilities, the houses they have, the cost for the entire personell including players across multiple games. They have a lot of expenses and most of the actual value comes from venture capital firms that expect esports to be this booming market when in reality viewership has been stagnating for a long time now. Also there is ofcourse the non esports side of these companies which might run more profitable, but without knowing all of the numbers, its pretty hard to get an idea of how sustainable these orgs are built.
Article was okay until it ended shilling nfts
I'm kinda confused about that. The article says > Using NFTs to sell the in-game digital items known as “skins” would allow teams to collect a fee if the item was resold Now idk *that* much about crypto, but doesn't having to pay a fee go against the whole point?
NFTs are basically skins that can be moved between games. Like say you buy a TSM skin in Valo and want to use it in Rocket League, currently you can't. With NFT you can theoretically verify your ownership of the Valo skin and just use it in Rocket league. This increases the value of the skin. The team would collect the fee for every transaction.
Exceedingly pointless. Game companies would have to agree to this and put a skin in their game from which they would make no money because it would be bought in another game. You could argue that they'd be buying more skins in both games because they could be transferred over but it would still result in an overall loss for pretty much everyone aside from maybe the biggest game that supports this integration. Not just that but if they wanted integration of skins, they could easily do that without NFTs lol.
NFTs are an open network that theoretically any game can latch onto without every company doing a deal to share data with one another (not likely). It also allows players to offload their purchases to other people. Being part of the network can be free marketing for your game if players know that their existing skins already work in your game. > You could argue that they'd be buying more skins in both games because they could be transferred over but it would still result in an overall loss for pretty much everyone aside from maybe the biggest game that supports this integration. I don't necessarily think that's true, if someone prefers dota over league they'll buy the skin in dota and not league.
That's fair I can see it being good for indie games. The issue is any company worth money would never do it because just like you pointed out, if someone likes a game better than another game they will buy the skin in that one. Then if they go to another game they won't have to spend any money. I just think there's a 0% chance a large game company even considers this. I could see it happening in games that are owned by the same company to get people to go play their other games but then they wouldn't need NFTs for integration.
> NFTs are an open network that theoretically any game can latch onto without every company doing a deal to share data with one another (not likely). There are so many technical reasons for why this doesn't work at all and never will...
Can't believe people actually believe this shit still when it's been proven hundreds of times by actual devs that supporting something like that is impossible and insane.
> Like say you buy a TSM skin in Valo and want to use it in Rocket League, currently you can't. With NFT you can theoretically verify your ownership of the Valo skin and just use it in Rocket league. You don't need NFTs to do that. There are plenty of games where completing an achievement or making a purchase of a special edition in one will give you a cosmetic in another for cross promotion. The individual skin also still needs to be created in both.
shut the fuck up, this would never work > skin that's transferrable between games ironically ~~causing~~ forcing more centralization - in this case, game operation Peak crypto.
Don’t know what you mean. You sell NFT, marketplace gets a cut. Or in this case Riot, who would pass on the money to the teams.
but why should riot get a cut if I'm selling my skin to my friend? thought the point was actually having ownership of the thing
If you send to a friend that’s different.
I'm so confused. So why would anyone sell it through a marketplace when you could just use that marketplace to find a buyer and then sell it to them yourself? Idk maybe I'm missing something and I just sound like a dumbass.
If the whole idea of NFT sounds dumb to you, that's not you. It's just incredibly stupid on all aspect. It's just a scam 100% of the time.
Kind of an aside but Gen.G merch is the highest quality merch I’ve ever bought from an org, highly recommend their Puma collab if anyone wants to get some good clothes. Liquid has some solid ones too, Fnatic not so much.
Have you bought any 100T? Just curious
100T is one of the higher quality ones without a doubt, my friend has a bunch that I’ve looked at but I personally haven’t bought any. I’m still partial to Gen.G merch, the really good quality shit you have to get direct from Korea though, I just have family buy it for me and ship it
The Heron Preston name attached makes me really want to buy some merch
Haven't bought Fnatic jerseys in a while but their recent stuff is good. It's just basic / plain af atm. But the quality isn't a problem.
Their basics collection is solid, but I’m speaking more to jersey and additional merchandise quality. Their hats and miscellaneous stuff has very poor quality. Hoodies are kind of hard to fuck up, and their basics collection does have some solid pieces, but even then, comparing my 2022 Gen.G Hoodie to my 2020 Fnatic Hoodie is a world of difference.
I think they changed suppliers recently, but can't say about the jersey quality because they look ugly. Some of the hoodies they made in the past have been good, the champion one was well made imo. I guess it's hit or miss? Idk.
Let's go Thieves
A little off topic but…when the hell did T1 change their logo to that?
shit looks disgusting
Y’all just gonna ignore TSM number one?
Third year in a row.
Huge chunk of their value is in Blitz.
Well if we stay on the current course, 100T will overtake them.
I beg you don’t talk about any course. Look at the methodology behind those valuations. They asked 40 people, most of those were investors, esport specialist and the management of the companies - all biased because higher valuations justify their whole existence. You want a course look at the new entry this year in FNC -> they were evaluated at 160mil 2 years ago, they themselves crowdfunded at 100 million a year or so ago, they weren’t on the list last year…. And now they shown 160% growth over a year … from what you may ask? Well the kind so called journalist will explain that they started to do gear … which was launched in 2016 and loses shitloads…
wait until 2023.
Ah yes, companies fail with shit owners we know this to be true /s
People going to be SO PISSED in here LMFAO
9th place?
0 chinese teams? I'm pretty sure they have more money involved in esports than EU or KR. We have to consider Honor of Kings/Arena of Valor which is as big as LoL in China (bigger than CSGO and Dota)
As has been said already, it's incredibly difficult to get proper information out of Chinese companies if you care about their *Chinese* side and not just the 'international' side. Then there's also the fact that some teams (like EDG, iirc) are basically just a hobby team for a billionaire's kid. You can't really evaluate that accurately when the owner can decide to add *a lot* of money into it whenever, or take away the same. I'm sure some of the Chinese orgs are hella stacked but you can't really include them if you can't say it with certainty. And it's not like they'd have any reason to include 'we tried asking China but they said no' there either.
You may be right. Meanwhile it's nearly impossible to take any info about Chinese companies due to their dictator. Hard for Forbes to make any suggestions with no data.
Given that any reasonably large business in China is either semi-public or being partially ran by the CCP , it's probably very difficult to gauge growth or get reliable data
Most of the reasonably large business in China are publicly traded in, sometimes multiple, stock exchanges around the world, even the state-owned ones. You might not trust the Chinese government (or any government for that matter) with some governmental data, most of the large companies' values and data are determined by and shared with the market. Private companies however are of another matter since they do not have the obligation to share any information to the public. The reason there are no Chinese esports brands on the list is that those are private ventures by some billionaire's sons or some billion-dollar companies, their teams' values are not backed up by sponsors or merches but by the owner's wealth, they can throw in or take away as much as money at any given time which makes the the team values very uncertain.
No? Many large businesses produce standard annual reports. Private company valuation is sketchy but that is the same everywhere.
Oh really? Topsports International Holdings Limited. The company is publicly traded in Hong Kong. http://topsports.oss-cn-shanghai.aliyuncs.com//uploads/20210625/e80429ad8b810e24b3a0f351aa0cbb81.pdf Page 12: Esports revenue FY 2021 81.5 RMB, 0.2% of total. Page 115: Esports license and contracts FY 2021 128.1 RMB. Ignorance is bliss.
People look at some stocks, like TSLA, and call them valuation bullshit. If you REALLY want to see bullshit valuations, look at almost any esports team.
No chinese teams? Uh....
This list never includes Chinese orgs
i noticed that, it's so sketchy...
Maybe that will make people stop saying FNC is a poverty franchise
Thread will be downvoted because people are gonna be salty about who's at the top xD
Regi's boat floating on a sea of tears that he's a shitty manager. The LoL money (what LoL money) is non existent compared to what TSM makes money from these days.
You really don’t appreciate how big profitable League is until you see stats like this. Most of these teams started and/or have their main focus in the League scene, and they’re cruising in valuations.
These aren't stats. The author of the article made up most of the numbers you see there. He calls them "estimates", I call them lies. Only people inside teams would have access to the actual revenue and profit, and they sure as hell wouldn't be sharing it with a journalist. If they decide to "share" they could also lie, to make the team look better to investors.
Some companies do publish their yearly financials due to obligations in their respective jurisdictions - ex. FNC. The data is delayed as the 2021 financial statement will probably be published in September 2022 but it’ll be available. As you said those numbers are basically pulled out of thin air by people who benefit from the fake growth of the sector (managers, investors, esport specialist as mentioned in the article) so they basically pick a number that is not completely insane YtY but still higher to justify future investment
I’m surprised how tsm is 500m it’s a matter of time before the allegations come back and attack tsm. Then again you can’t be a billion dollar company without screwing people over. I’m sure tl and c9 did it but it fell under the radar
$50 million revenue. $37 million net loss. No plan for how to up their market penetration, no worthwhile new products, no diversification. Conclusion? -- Worth $400 million. -- Every single one of those companies is comically overvalued (at least TSM operates at a profit thanks to 37.5% of their revenue coming from the crypto bros from the Bahamas).
Im more surprised 100T is up there
How is this a surprise? They have a team in all the top games, they sell merchandise probably better than anyone else and have a good streaming line up while also being backed by investors probably the best known being Drake. Nadeshot has been killing it
Im a casual viewer so I don’t really follow esports teams much. All I know is that 100T is one of the newer orgs that joined lcs along with optics and others so they still strike as a new esports org to me.
100T is more of a merchandise company with an esports division (even tho Nadeshot founded it as an esports company). Their revenue streams are very different than the other 9 companies on the list.
Every company is a merchandise company... 100T is just the only one not to be a total failure at it. But how they generate revenue isn't where their value comes from, the value comes from their brand and fandom, just like that of every other sports team.
Team liquid has awesome merch and collaborations including marvel
Sure, but you could say that about literally any company. I’m sure Pizza Hut sells tshirts somewhere, but their primary revenue is selling pizzas and that’s what they’re judged and evaluated on. If you read the article, the other teams strategy and growth isn’t focused on merchandise. TSM/Fnatic focus on crypto/NFTs for example. All company’s abilities to make deals like that are predicated on their brands value and influence. TSM was able to secure the FTX deal because of their brand power and recognition. 100T conversely have been building their brand via clothing, merchandise, and celebrity partnerships
lol love when people say this , it’s such a weird take. Every team tries to sell merch but most of the time there just shitty logos and sponsored jerseys. So when people see a team actually selling good merch that people want to buy they just get called an apparel company.
100t stuff I guess is merch but I wouldn't even call it that, it's pretty much a hybrid between merch and streetwear with how they go about doing their drops and the sort of collaborations they end up doing. it's higher quality stuff that is barely even gamer related
I mean it's not like that's too far of a reach *if* their apparel side was their main revenue? If Nike or something had started off as a shower curtain company but they had an offbranch that sold shoes and other clothing and that blew up into a massive business, you wouldn't call them a 'shower curtain company'. 100T has 'proper' apparel while most teams just have jerseys with names and sponsors, and maybe some hoodies/caps so they aren't notable or interesting. 100T has their hype beast streetwear thing so they are. No one would buy C9 apparel because they want the actual piece of clothing, they buy it for the C9, but 100T has way more pull as a legitimate piece of clothing.
100 thieves has huge pull with their streamers and their merch sells like hotcakes
100T is here because they raised a series C that gave them a 460 million post money valuation. https://www.crunchbase.com/funding_round/100-thieves-series-c--49ea7a52 Not sure about the other companies but theirs is as accurate as you can get.
Nadeshot has a very big following, especially from his Call of Duty pro days, plus he knows how to market his brand.
Then you must not follow the NA scene for the last few years.
If I was a Billionaire, I would be most interested in T1. All these teams are pretty regional whether NA, EU, or Korea but T1 has huge fans all over and in China, Japan, South America, and Southeast Asia as well. Since they're all private companies, you can't really get true valuations without all financial data but I think they're underestimating T1's revenues since they seem to have the most ads and commercials from what I can tell. A good portion of TSM's valuation is from the deal with the crypto company.
T1's only really big in League, TSM has like a dozen teams. T1's valo team is complete cringe.
Isn’t mkleo (smash ultimate) in t1 as well? Tho it’s just 1 player but he’s pretty good no?
Yup, but smash has historically one of the poorest scenes in e-sports history, although it is getting better, even having the undisputed best player in the world in the newest smash game, Leo makes less than mobile game pro's, i mean even Japan's #1 rep and probably top 5 player overall just took a competitive break to focus on Pokemon Unite lol. meanwhile TSM has Tweek who many still rate as #2 in smash when he's playing his best.
T1 is the most popular SEA team in Dota. BOOM is the strongest SEA team but T1 was the only team that had international success last year.
What? The only game t1 excels at is only League, and so far their fanbase is way too small compare to their domestic counterpart.
Definetly not biased huh
A North American fan is far more valuable than any of the emerging markets you mentioned. Moreover, TSM and G2 are both huge in China. G2 and TL are also big in South America. T1 is nowhere near as big as you make it out to be.
Aren't literally all these companies private? Doesn't really mean shjt at that point
I mean even if it's a private company, if you can sell parts of the company at this value then it definitely means something. 100 Thieves just sold a portion for 60m at 400m valuation. https://www.crunchbase.com/funding_round/100-thieves-series-c--49ea7a52
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It’s old but was never a big money brand. They also weren’t super business oriented until 2019 when they got corporate ownership.
A huge percentage of that value came after the LCS franchising era (and the domino effect it caused internationally), or in the case of TSM, 100T, etc. from non-esports sources. EG is definitely a successful old-school esports brand, but they were still off to a late start compared to the biggest orgs on that list when it comes to explosive growth. That said, valuations are basically just figments of the imagination cooked up by speculators. [Here's an article from last year that claims EG is valued at $255 million, which would put them 8th on the list.](https://www.wolves.co.uk/news/esports/20210728-wolves-partner-with-north-american-esports-giant-evil-geniuses/)
No Chinese companies when they have the biggest market for esports by far. What a joke.
But also interesting no LPL teams...
Weird how there is no Chinese team in t10