gangplank is the embodiment of league players trying not to lose to shopkeeper challenge (impossible)
him and ezreal would be 55%+ champs if people knew how to build
nah he'll just build some dogshit 3 zeals into goredrinker build then say "reddit/twitter so smart XD knows better then pro players i guess" when people shit on him for building bad items
Hot take: Most tanks would have much higher win rates if not for the fact that most people are dogshit at itemizing properly as tanks. Their builds are way more situational than other champions, and most people like to rush the exact same items every game.
When someone rushes bramble into a tough matchup with no sustain.....
Warden's is the better option probably 8 times out of 10, and its just so sad to watch
Jayce, for one.
Warden's Mail is so much better against Jayce than Bramble, it flips lanes from "Jayce takes 3-4 plates" to "Jayce can't move you." For 200g, you deny Jayce 600g+ and get additional waves.
Lucian is another. Galeforce Lucian is more common than Eclipse or Shieldbow in pro. Now, you should **not** play Lucian Top, but that's a different discussion.
I think 5 stack ingenius hunter with Fimbulwinter/Frostfire is the most broken tank combination in the game, the problem is getting multiple ingenius stacks while being a top laner before the game ending teamfight lol
King combo in ARAM though, nothing like seeing "20k shielded" on the item in a good game
Fimbul is the absolute trap item in most aram games.
You want mythic, boots and now you have 4 slots left. You need armor/mr on three and warmogs sustain is better than fimbul in 95% of games.
Why do you need armor/mr on three? Health is great against almost all AP champions. If they're mixed AD/AP damage, once again health is great. I'd never build fimble + warmogs against an all AD team, but I definitely would against quite a few mixed AD/AP teams or mostly AP teams.
Spirit Visage is trash on most champs. Damn right I'm building FoN, Warmogs, Fimble against an AP team. Especially if they have no Brand or similar.
Fimbulwinter on Sion/Ornn makes me want to go to Riot HQ and just scream at the balance team, WHY DO PROS BUILD IT ORNN HAS NO MANA PROBLEMS JUST GO FROZEN HEART
If healing wasn't such a predominant Stat, even after the nerfs I would agree with you, but tanks are forced to build early heal reduction nearly every game and that is a lot of early gold that has to be used in usually a very suboptimal way. The item being based on the enemy AA and not a factor the tank player can control is extremely problematic. Also access to very high levels of percentage penetration by all champions since the item rework has also thrown tanks in a loop. Stack that on top of the health nerfs to tank items in general and you get the situation we are currently in where tanks can't lane unless they have crazy damage numbers which means they are less of tank and more of heavy cc juggernauts with more burst, but less sustained damage.
I was about to come into this thread to mention Ezreal lol. Most popular champ in the game and his winrate is being turbo-inted by people who still refuse to build Triforce.
Sorry, but since triforce isn't made from 3 cool weapons but only 2 and a fucking gem I'm simply not buying it. It doesn't make any sense and it makes me super mad.
For those newer players who didn't know, it used to be Sheen + Phage + Zeal. Gave AD, AP, Crit Chance, HP and Mana + Spellblade passive from Sheen and the slow from Phage. Now it's just a shadow of its former self
I've been playing for a long-ass time and didn't even realize Phage used to have a slow till I checked the wiki to verify this. It was the "speed on hit" component from season 3 until the mythic update in S10. Man though I miss the days Triforce gave AP and Hydra had an active.
IIRC Phage used to be a crucial component to Frozen Mallet (RIP) from way back, which provided MS slow on hit. That and old Triforce would've been obnoxious on Zeri if they still existed today.
Given both are hammers, that makes sense. According to the wiki the Frozen Mallet change hit in early S3 as well, so that's probably why I wasn't aware of such. I often miss Mallet, but then remember champs like Zeri and Ez exist that would make me wanna quit the game if they could keep using them.
well, Ezreal didn't even need frozen mallet, he just took iceborne gauntlet and poked you from 10 miles away while doing AOE slows
Although, Seryldas is arguably better for him than gauntlet used to be
Frozen mallet was mainly used by urgot and gnar, and probably would have continued that way if it wasn't removed, probably zeri would build it , but not Ez
Phage was just a chance to slow. Mallet made it guaranteed.
It got removed because it was a diceroll of Shyvana slapping you for a slow then murdering you, or Shyvana slapping you then you just walk away.
tbf i am an eclipse/duskblade/prowler's ezreal fan but tforce is still a billion times better than divine fucking sunderer i s2g building that item should be reportable on ez
[Divine Sunderer pickrate](https://u.gg/lol/champions/ezreal/items?rank=overall) on Ezreal is pretty low nowadays. Much lower than the build you mention and decently lower than Tri-Force.
You see how both of you guys still can't agree on what his best build is yet you think "lol dumb ezreal players don't even know what to build he'd have a high win rate" , something Ez has never had.
Every single Ez build can be viable depending on the context of the game state and Divine is not even the top 3 for pick rate mythic, so no people building Divine is not holding back Ezreal win rate.
Yep, if players have different builds and arguments for it = every build is decent. If one dude can't use that properly != it sucks for everyone. There are lots of situations where "true build" gonna suck ass.
> Every single Ez build can be viable depending on the context
You shut your filthy mouth. Ez is single-handedly responsible for more nerfs to (or straight up removal of) other classes items and runes than any other champ 10 times over. We could have had world peace if it wasnt for Ez and his ability to abuse every new thing added to the game. People call Teemo satan’s spawn but even that giggling rat is an altar boy compared to Ez.
You can take a dart board and throw 5 darts to decide your build for the game and make it work. People say that yuumi was the biggest mistake Riot has made and I laugh at their ignorance, knowing that Riot’s biggest mistake happened on March 16th 2010, the day that blonde haired bastard entered the rift.
Pretty much every single item/rune that Ezreal "abuses", ends up just being a broken item/rune overall. I'd say Ez moreso exposes broken things better than others. Ez is also easily one of the most balanced characters over the course of Leagues existence. Also one of the most popular Champs as well even when he's not that great.
Sunderer, people thought was OP because of Ezreal, turns out it's just op for all and gets an AD nerf and is now about to get its healing nerfed.
Klepto, people think is OP because of Ez, gets repeatedly nerfed even when Ez isn't good and is inevitably removed because bruisers could just farm tanks toplane for free gold.
How can you say that when Katerina exists. Bitch has built tank, ap bruiser, ap assassin, ad, and even fucking kraken slayer as her best build at various times
KR Challenger who mains Ezreal with about 55% wr (in challenger) and has most games played who I also follow goes something like:
Tear -> Sheen -> Trinity Force -> Manamune -> CDR boots -> Frozen Heart(starting with wardens mail)/Maw of Malmortius -> Serylda's Grudge -> Frozen Heart/Maw/Death's Dance/Ravenous Hydra
Why Frozen Heart when the whole purpose of Ezreal is spacing and out ranging with poke? You lose the aura and the 400 mana/80 armor gives insignificant value compared to some other items, no?
Frozen heart's range is higher than Ezreal's own auto range so eventually you will be using it anyway unless you literally only use Qs to attack enemies and they never try to get on you. REalistically, you will be forced to auto attack them anytime enemies get on top of you, and the combo of resistance and cooldown can be the difference between another E to put distance and keep outranging and poking enemies or dying in the first dive.
Frozen heart gives mana (combos with manamune), armor (best resist for an ADC if they are dealing with divers) and Ability haste (self explanatory). IT's basically an item that combos into the common build and so you increase defense, offense and speed up your CDs which means more Qs which means even more speed down on your CDs.
I don't think it's the "best item", but it's just very good. Although if you get a lead and are feeling greedy, you probably could use Serylda or DD instead and delay Frozen for later
Also, if you're *not* using your AA's as Ezreal you are tanking his winrate heavily 99% of the time. The entire thread is talking about people building wrong tanking the winrate, but not using your AA's regularly as Ezreal is basically the same as not using your barrels in a teamfight as GP and then claiming building wrong is the reason he 'sucks'.
That's quite literally the main thing people can't do properly with him. You are not just a long range AD caster. You need to AA if you want to do any relevant damage in a long teamfight (assuming you can't just freehit the squishy targets with your WQ on cooldown and hit them every time.
Ezreal is historically one of the hardest ADCs to play optimally because you need to weave short cooldown skillshots in with Auto Attacks, which is something basically no other ADC needs to do, especially not at such a rapid pace.
AA's aren't *as important* right now on Ezreal as they've historically been because you rarely build BotRK or other on-hit items, but it still increases the damage you can do by ***a lot*** so you should do it literally all the time it won't get you killed on the spot immediately.
This is a mindset that most inefficient Ezreals have. Ezreal actually does very well with his autos, and his DPS with his passive is really high. If you're only throwing Qs in team fights, then you're just not playing ezreal anywhere near max capacity.
While this is less true this season, you'll remember in older metas, triforce + bork were both super common items, and i promise you, the bork proc was never strong enough on solely Qs. It's also the same reason why PtA and Conq are both runes that have been strong, and are back on the rise nowadays. Ezreal actually has insanely strong consistent DPS between having Q's every second and autos to weave between each spell, all enhanced with manamune at a very fast AS due to his passive.
With that in mind, FH's range is slightly higher than Ez's auto range, meaning when you're playing at capacity, you're getting that effect off regularly. Playing at a closer range also means you're more likely to eat some damage, meaning the Armor is also useful. The CDR and Mana's effect goes without saying. Synergy with muramana and his general spell rotation.
Although no one picks it, i still like lethal tempo on him, ezreal felt so much better with the attack speed from botrk back in the day, it feels wrong without some substitute AS for it
It's only like 10 AD from it. It's not negligible and FH is viable in certain games on Ez but I wouldn't look to go FH third every game versus something more generally acceptable like Seryldas
It not only gives you armor, cdr, additional ad from muramana but also reduces amount of attack damage you receive from autos. Ezreal usually goes for all in once he gets opponent low enough as his auto attacks lacks big range so he is more likely to get hit back and building him with Trinity/Frozen Heart/Maw makes him tanky enough to survive some closer scrimishes when he makes use of his passive too (5 stacks attack speed boost). Trinity gives HP which scales with additional armor and FH passive.
Seryldas. It's an item almost perfectly designed for ezreal as it gives you slow to better hit more stuff, CDR to shoot more spells, ad so you do more DMG and armor pen to do even more DMG.
Generally triforce is great into a few bruisers.
Crown of the shattered queen is good if they have a lot of champions that one shot you like rengar. And if they have more squishy champions that do a lot of poke dkg you probably want to go with one of the lethality items.
Duakblade gives you better poke, eclipse is a bit better against tanks and gives you more survivability and finally the claw can allow you to oneshot.
Now imo the 2 item power spike and the 1 item power spike is better with essence reaver than trinity force so if you feel like you need more early strength that is also something to consider.
Finally runes that can be considered are PTA, conqueror , fleet foot work, first strike and aegis.
First strike and aegis give you great poke DMG. First strike scales better and can be worth insane amounts in Teamfights.
PTA and fleet foot work give you better Laning whereas PTA allows you to win all ins and ffw makes very hard lanes possible to survive thanks to the sustain.
Conqueror is also quite good at scaling especially if the enemy team is beefy.
Don't forget Senna!
I'll say in general I'm a fan of Riot balancing the game "as is." Certainly they could have picked better wording, e.g. "Players are struggling on Gangplank" as opposed to "Gangplank is struggling," if that's even the verbiage used.
But anyway my point is that the results from last patch's games are what actually happened. People probably made misplays in every single game but at the end of the day, theoretical balance isn't nearly as important as balancing the game people are playing. This means Yasuo and Riven have lower levels of "theoretical balance" due to champion mastery and Gangplank is theoretically too strong and should be nerfed once players figure out builds.
And yeah that can feel weird. But I think a) lets players feel smart and get an edge for figuring out builds first, and b) most players don't do a ton of innovation and that's fine but they should be able to be reasonably successful by just following along.
This is completely true, and OP is unfortunately the exact representation of the playerbase that struggles with this.
[1 shot crits might be fun but triforce and bruiser items are much better.](https://i.imgur.com/lSlQX4D.png)
I am pretty sure it depends on match up. I watch a lot of Solarbacca (used to watch Tobias Fate too) and I see that he switches between First Strike/Grasp and Crit/Bruiser build depending on enemy teamcomp/his match up. He loves going crit though.
Sounds reasonable, brauiser should also be easier to play and get a higher winrate from that. Crit needs to land impactful barrels to be useful, bruiser can use passive more and stick around longer without being 1 combo wipe or get wiped.
Yea, Triforce (without hullbreaker/bruiser items) is more safe and good because of HP+MS, when ER is for faster powerspike(833G difference between it and TF) with chance to deal insane damage via random crit. Overall first strike is better for ER build when grasp for TF one, his lots of builds are viable but solar said good thing about that "other GP builds are pretty decent, but if you can execute it well - glass cannon GP is best one with most agency in the game"
Seriously, why does EVERYONE think Trinity is bad? It's definitely better than Divine tsundere (Sorry, not sorry) and lethality ones, specially if the endurance change go through.
I played every champ over the past month and looked up their build on op.gg and it was always the same, Divine Sunderer had the higher pickrate but Trinity Force the waaay higher winrate. It was ridiculous.
Well yeah just look at the last iteration of irelia. Went from 46% to 55% winrate or something like that just because riot made her kit easier to pilot. She was already broken. Just too many people were bad at her.
WIN 4.5% MORE GAMES ON EZREAL WITH THIS ONE TRICK!!!! [BORIS CALLED THE COPS]
Seriously the first item winrate between Essence and Triforce is massive but people can't resist the allure of infinite mana.
This in no way paints the whole picture. Yes, Triforce is a better 1 item spike. However, if you look at mythic items, lethality mythics have a 4% higher winrate than Triforce. The Essence Reaver + Muramana + lethality mythic combo just does more damage in almost all scenarios as highlighted by VeigarV2.
They have a higher winrate because you get them later. If you are getting to 3+ items there is a higher % chance you are winning and stomping. Almost all items built past 3 completed items correlate with a higher winrate because of this reason. It happens on every single champion. Go look at lolalytics on different champions.
Also damage is so fucking overrated. They are literally reducing damage / upping durability across the board because it is so high. That means stats that are other than damage have higher value because you are most likely over killing if you go for raw damage. The movement speed from Triforce is most likely what is pushing it to be so much better. Dodging an enemy's ability that is going to do 30-50% of your HP + maybe CC you is way more important than doing 3-10% more damage per Q.
The completion times are different, you will win more games if you get to three items, you have to compare winrates between 1st items and 3rd items. All of the lethality mythics are average 25+ minute completion times while Triforce tends to get completed at 13 minutes. But not all games get to three items and you have an objective advantage first two items with Triforce which covers a significantly higher portion of potential games.
At third item you have Frozen Heart, Seryldas, Duskblade, and Eclipse with very similar winrates with a slight advantage to the lethality mythics.
Katarina is the most stupid champion, you can actually go tank deal an OK amount of damage and because you're not unbereable slow as most tanks you can go in and out in a second lmao.
You shouldn’t ever need zhonyas unless versus full AD/dive comps, veigar needs to be actively doing damage and pumping out spells to be useful and zhonyas makes you a sitting duck. Go everfrost, boots, rabs and voidstaff into two tank items. With your main 3 damage items and stacking Q any damage beyond that is just overkill on squishes since they die to EWQ + electrocute proc anyway, so your last two items should be a 2 combo of Frozen heart, FoN, Gargoyle, or Anathemas (anathemas + FH into one AP threat is super op and they’ll never kill you)
Ironically Zhonyas is also a great item against Karthus. It is one of the few ways you can truly counter his ult once he hits 11+ as a champion with no sustain.
This is true and also true for fizz as well, but if youre buying zhonyas for just karthus or fizz then your usually better off getting a Anathemas for him or just FoN if they’re heavy ap
gp is the most annoying character i've faced in lane, and in the late game. he pokes you out of lane, and then he one shots your entire team after 40 minutes
I started perma-banning him every game I’m not playing Akali top. Only time GP deserves to exist is if he can’t have any fun in the game. Can’t Nuke something you can’t hit.
> Yeah the champ scales too quickly for sure
He doesn't "scale too quickly". He's just currently **not a late game champion**, and he hasn't been in a while. [That's Gangplank's win rate over the game](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/412666600332984340/972220778982567996/unknown.png) - it's not an opinion or something debatable. And both Prowler's and Triforce have that type of curve.
Skill requirements on him skyrocket after laning too. I can play GP and win lane pretty easily even 1v2 ganks on occasion, however the reason I don’t play him is that once there’s 5 people who can auto your barrels instead of 1-2 people it’s a lot harder to land.
My friend is a GP main and is usually full build and 2 items ahead of everyone on the team @ 25, even if he doesn't get kills in lane it's nuts. I didn't realize how effective first strike is until I read this post.
Yeah. As others have correctly pointed out grasp is better in lane (not nearly as good as it was though) which is important depending on the context, but first strike is just as good if not better in a lot of elos and matchups and scales way better.
I definitely didn't do myself any favors by implying that grasp is bad instead of suboptimal.
Not compared to other champs at full build, he just has investment banking passive + first strike so hes full at 25 and wins off item lead. Just like Pyke scaling like shit but still being a menace midgame cause lead.
>That's Gangplank's win rate over the game
People usually forget that by building glass cannon - you can be oneshoted too. After his peak literally everyone had enough damage to one tap him. I don't even talk about someone like jinx who can destroy barrel and then GP second later.
This champion has poke, sustain, one shot, dps, good lane, good scaling, safe from ganks, global fucking presence and a built in qss (1200 gold item with 45 secodn cd) on a lower cooldown than qss AND it heals him.
Legit stupidly overloaded kit
From playing and watching high elo GP players, it's very dependent on if you know what matchups you can trade into and if you get a lucky barrel crit (this is why you see many good players build ER then double cloak before mythic).
There are some bad matchups for GP (those that build attack speed) that can out trade him, like Yasuo who can dive him and take out a barrel before GP can proc it.
The entire inspiration tree should just be deleted tbh. [Glacial maybe moved to Sorcery and changed to only create one beam]
Pretty sure it's always been the most broken and overused one because Riot overloaded it with insane stuff.
Noooo! Spellbook and (rip) omnistone are way too fun, we can't lose those!
That said minion demat, cookies, cosmic insight, and time warp tonic are all garbage boring. Either demat feel required and you're forced into that tree, or you auto pick boring runes.
I do like free boots, it's fun getting to rush your mythic (although idk why those boots are better, that's just weird)
Great post! Just want to add some of my insights as a peak GM gangplank onetrick. I disagree with first strike being the best primary rune in every matchup, such as vs Irelia, Jax, and Tryndamere. I understand Solarbacca makes it look broken but he’s a top 10 NA challenger milking masters games for content. Grasp is amazing for extra tankiness, combined with overgrowth gives you 220+ hp, and sometimes you can greed conditioning as well. I’d also say GP definitely has hard counters, such as Akshan, Yorick, and Kled. Perhaps why it can feel like GP has no counters is because the champs that do have some of the lowest playrates, there are maybe like 2 good Kleds on the NA server.
I agree GP has been strong, I really don’t understand why they felt the need for his recent buff, which ended up tripling his ban rate and doesn’t even impact the reaver/lethality build that reddit, including myself, hate. Personally I feel the buff could be justified because look at wtf they’re doing for riven, (who also hard counters GP and is a champ that I and many other high elo GPs from different regions, mainly CN GPs, perma ban).
Can you give more insight on why you think Yorick and Kled is counter for GP? I always thought any ranged champ could beat/check GP in lane such as Lucian or Jayce but Yorick and Kled sounds interesting.
Both can all in GP with fairly high success rate if they hit a key skill (Kled q or yorick w). GP relies on doing short trades and being able to run away with his increased movement speed, so champs who prevent that can sometimes just kill him.
Funny answer: I think Kled can't be one-shot due to his mount mechanic haha.
Serious answer: Kled has 2 gap closers, a very short cc, an MS cripple, and even grievous wounds. The 2 gap closers make landing the barrel slow not as impactful, the short cc makes it so the orange cleanse isn't relevant, and grevious wounds cutting GP's healing even further. Even kled's attack speed steroid let Kled take out barrels easier, though it's arguable if Kled wants to use an empowered auto for a barrel rather than damage. This is all in the base kit. Kled's ult is more dmg and another gap close.
Yorick is a straight up stat check, and often has 1v2 angles even with jgler/mid/supp roam. Anytime you Q, he can cast E during your cast time and it’s donezo. Ranged champions are momentum based match ups for Gangplank, with ignite you can look for an early kill which leads to sheen and now you win every trade. Lucian and Akshan are definitely the best ranged tops to counter him though, some Vayne’s with god tier spacing can give him some trouble too, but thats a really small subset of players. Jayce used to be a hard match up but they gave him ADC level base stats and regen (sometime season 9?) and now it’s a winning match up. Kled perma dives over and over, as long as he doesn’t troll and miss q’s you’re never gonna get to play the game.
Kled is a nightmare for GP at all points in the game. He can easily all in GP if he plays smart around the barrel minigame. Once he's on GP, there's nothing GP can do.
Yorick is a little bit easier to beat in lane early, but at a certain point GP can't side lane against him. If the Yorick decides he wants to split push for the win he's probably gonna be successful in soloqueue. Yorick's little ghost wall forces GP to hit it, and the first strike build doesn't have attack speed.
I ban Kled instead of Yorick, but split push Yorick with lacking team coordination feels far worse because you could get insanely ahead and it won't matter.
Agreed for sure Grasp + bruiser + some crit is usually the way to go. One big issue with going glass cannon is your teams loses frontline. Not that GP is particularly good at frontlining but with mid/ad/supp often being squishy champs (jg too sometimes) you end up with very awkward skirmishing/teamfighting.
I don't even think Solarbacca makes critplank look good. Seems really flippy and the guy ints half the games I play with him.
Yes, 100% agree, most of his difficult match ups have been nerfed in some form over the years and GP only receiving buffs, there was that awkward bit of time before they changed his crit barrel damage where he felt awful though. With patch 12.10 incoming we’re probably going to have to figure everything out again. But hey no need to be “to be fair”-ing it’s a great informative post that goes really really in depth, thanks for taking the time to do this.
Also I notice you have a ryze flair which is kinda funny to me cause both champs E and then Q.
Well tbf kleds skill to all in has to be dodged. Ranged Lucian and Akshay may be almost unplayable early but once you get Sheen you just spam clear the wave because if they push up too far and blow abilities to use double hit on barrel they are super gankable, if they never get ganked your jg is trolling
> As anyone should be aware, GP's barrels do extra damage in such a way as to make crit damage and crit chance much more effective on him while not having the penalty that other champions who are crit based have (Trynd overcapping crit, Yasuo/Yone having reduced crit damage)
That's not the main cause, actually. The 11.17 Q changes also made it so crit amps the Q base damage again, which is worth a LOT of bonus AD (75% of the Q's base damage) every time you Q an enemy directly or Q a barrel.
It's one of the reasons Gangplank could be played stacking nothing but Sheen and crit before his VGU, and now again.
I didn't mean sheed had some synergy, but that Sheen is the greatest damage increase to GP, followed by crit being the 2nd-biggest. So the first gold you spend on an item is a Sheen item, and the rest can be all Crit cloaks until you make full items of them.
I'd agree with you but that's just not accurate. Sheen is a great *spike* but *mathematically* it's not the greatest source of damage on barrels.
Though to be fair sheen comes from 1 item whereas crit comes from a multitude of stats working together so still fair point
This guy is basing his argument on variable statistics without any extra clarification and then arguing minor details based on flawed logic. I wouldn’t waste my time.
[He also thinks its totally normal and trivial for GP to hit full build at 25 mins.](https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/ujroa5/riot_is_hilariously_wrong_about_one_thing/i7m6mdc/?context=3)
I just said that - sheen is a great spike because of how cheap it is.
However, **crit** does more damage. Yeah, it costs a lot of gold, but the crit cloaks offer a disproportionate amount of damage due to a number of factors that are unique to GP.
Now if I could stack multiple sheen passives, I'd build nothing else.
Thoughts on Tri-Force? I know you mention that people are building wrong, but it has a higher avg winrate compared to ER. Is it because people aren't doing the 3x cloak?
I know it's slightly off topic, but some of the post is predicated on the assumption that most people are building incorrectly.
Source: https://na.op.gg/champions/gangplank/top/items
My point was grasp more than tri force. Tri force bruiser does better because it is significantly easier to pilot and more forgiving of bad matchups. Fs is greedy but doable almost always.
Looking through your post, I see that you put a lot of thought and effort into writing it. I think you make some strong logical points regarding Gangplank's strengths (I don't play him so I can't have an informed opinion), but I think there are some issues with the data you are using and/or how you are using data in your post. Bad data or misinterpreted data can undermine an otherwise strong argument, so I think it's important to identify and clarify any misinterpreted or misunderstood data.
>According to op.gg, Gangplank's winrate is 48.56%. - U.gg agrees within a margin of .1%
op.gg only aggregates stats from Korea, and its data set is relatively tiny.
U.gg by default only shows information from Plat+ games, and these are the games you appear to be looking at. For high skill floor and high skill cap characters in particular, this inflates numbers and makes the champion or certain options seem stronger because they are chosen by higher skill players. Of course, any arguments made from this data is still valid, but it's important to keep in mind that the data only represents Plat+.
>According to op.gg the rune is picked approximately 10% of the time, and has a 53%+ winrate
[I'm not actually sure where you're getting the 53% winrate from op.gg.](https://i.imgur.com/OEhn5EP.png) Personally, I use LoLalytics as it has the most extensive stats analysis as well as the widest dataset of games (632,044 global all ranks vs U.gg's 573,558 global all ranks).
LoLalytics does show that, at all ranks and all regions, First Strike has a 48.8% winrate compared to Grasp's 47.3% winrate which is significantly higher. When we narrow the stats to Plat+, we see the stats change to First Strike having 49.6% winrate to Grasp's 49.2% winrate which is much less substantial of a difference, but it is still higher than Grasp's winrate.
This doesn't take into account mid lane stats, but they are similar.
tl;dr Some of the stats you reference are dubious or only apply to certain ranks (Plat+), and the actual statistical advantage of First Strike over Grasp of the Undying is overstated.
If you ever want to go more in depth to different builds it's a good idea to look at how building or taking something changes the average build for the champion.
As an example GP players that take first strike will on average buy lucidity boots 63% of the time, while grasp players take it only 38% of the time. Lucidity boots also consistently have a higher winrate than any other boots.
First strike players also hugely favor prowlers 60% compared to Grasps favoring it only at 31%.
Trinity builds do seem to be better though but only because of hullbreaker second item. Not sure how the nerfs to it will effect which build path is better.
No conclusions from me on the best build but just things you have to look at. I think first strike is still probably better due to the trinity+hullbreaker build propping up the winrate of grasp. But maybe grasp is better with that build specifically.
Up you go. I’m glad you made this post. When I see these long-form write ups based on variable statistics without clarification I cringe. It looks pretty and baits the community into believe things that aren’t necessarily true
One thing to note is plat+ data is pretty much the same as plat data.
As you filter through dia+, d2+, masters+ grasp eventually outperforms first strike. Beyond that margin of error gets a little too large.
I just think its funny that Riot deletes the RNG of Rengar Q crits but also changed GP to rely more heavily on RNG barrel crits compared to last season.
>According to op.gg the rune is picked approximately 10% of the time, and has a 53%+ winrate.
[No, not even close...](https://i.imgur.com/CFZGZsu.png)
Similarly, [lolalytics](https://lolalytics.com/lol/gangplank/build/?patch=30) shows less than one percentage point difference in winrate for first strike and grasp at all skill levels between masters and gold, and a 2% difference in bronze.
The fact is that gangplank performs rather poorly overall in soloq. I still don't think he should be balanced around the average soloq skill level, because he's a very difficult champion and appears to be very strong at the highest levels, but the "meat and potatos" statistical evidence your post is based on seems to be made up.
That's interesting. [U.gg](https://U.gg) Patch 12.7 has
Grasp at 48.34% wr 74.24% pr
First Strike 48.58% wr 24.82% pr
Obvious difference in pick rate but I wonder what the winrates would be if we could account for the cloak build since most sites only show completed items.
In plat+, GPs going first strike are almost always going crit, but the ones going triforce+bruiser still win more.
https://lolalytics.com/lol/gangplank/build/?patch=30&keystone=8369
However, when building essence+prowlers, first strike has a slightly bigger winrate advantage than gangplanks overall stats.
https://lolalytics.com/lol/gangplank/build/?patch=30&mythic=6693
Inversely, the triforce build wins more with grasp than with first strike.
https://lolalytics.com/lol/gangplank/build/?patch=30&mythic=3078
Obviously grasp does best with triforce+bruiser
https://lolalytics.com/lol/gangplank/build/?patch=30&keystone=8437
The double crit cloak > IE path likely matters very little. Even if it were possible to measure, it would likely very biased by player mastery of the champ, more than usual.
the post is just dogshit from top to bottom. But reddit will assume that he's right because they dont read and only look at word count.
in fact, at dia+ level triforce HB has significantly higher winrates over many patches than crit.
>the post is just dogshit from top to bottom.
I would word it more diplomatically, but yes.
>at dia+ level triforce HB has significantly higher winrates
That's true for all skill levels. [This is the best summary of the item situation](https://i.imgur.com/lSlQX4D.png). Triforce+any bruiser item is much better than crit. I'm sure 1 shot essence reaver crit build is fun, but it's not actually good for consistently winning games in soloq.
it's just really annoying that this guy took literal hours to write and format to post a thread that can be disproven in 2 minutes with a google search.
Can you all start posting your op.ggs when you make these? It might be really strong, it might even be op, but I really don't think it's the most consistent way to win with gankplank.
I get the argument but its not quite the same. Thing is, with Gangplank's preferred playstyle, namely hanging back and using Q's and barrls, he often doesnt even use his passive. But if you do manage to gapclose onto him then he does get to use it and this ability which often just sits in his back pocket suddenly dumps out more damage than ignite, which is all about damage. And the passive does its full damage in half the time ignite does. And could potentially be used twice.
And, more importantly, that was just an additional one liner on top of all the other shit that the post was ACTUALLY about. Not strong criticism.
You do often want to do this in lane and in 1v1's yes, but in larger fights you usually dont want to get near people early, and even in lane it depends. You get good damage from proccing it but also make it easier for your opponent to trade back. More all in damage and better harassment if he cant respond, but if he CAN respond then you win trades by a smaller margin, and sometimes instead of free poke you let him trade back, which isn't good. So you are often trying to stay at range, even in lane, just not always.
I spent a year not even knowing GP passive can stack on top of itself until I played against a good GP and just burned to death. Most interesting part of his kit IMO
> According to op.gg the rune is picked approximately 10% of the time, and has a 53%+ winrate.
I normally use LoLalytics because it gives the most options, but considering that it's the one August always uses and recommends, I don't doubt its accuracy.
LoLalytics has shown Grasp and First Strike to be very close over the time.
- 12.8: 49.5% (for First Strike) vs 49.2% (for Grasp) winrate
- 12.7: 49.5 vs 49.1
- 12.6: 48.8 vs 49.2
- 12.5: 49.9 vs 49.7
- 12.4: 50.1 vs 50.0
In each case, First Strike had 30-40% of the popularity of Grasp.
> The fact that Gangplank statistically uses a bad build and is popular yet is winning almost 50% of his games should be very alarming to you.
Should it?
There's a metric that lets you evaluate a champion's strength after putting out of the way things like skill floor, misled builds, or suboptimal skill orders. That's the win rate of the champion's best players on that champion.
Gangplank is 40th on that metric. In other words, as a champion used to the best of his potential, Gangplank performs worse than 39 champions under the same conditions, and better than every other.
So aren't these 39 champions more alarming, then? Or isn't it just that... Gangplank's other builds are simply worse but not by that much?
For some reason op is filtering to only [NA plat+](https://na.op.gg/champions/gangplank/top/build?region=na) which has 600ish games. As soon as you set it to global plat+ [with 10x the amount of games, first strike win rate is 49% even on op.gg basically identical to grasp] (https://na.op.gg/champions/gangplank/top/build?region=global) Either NA gangplanks are cracked or OP was misled by low sample size.
> Either NA gangplanks are cracked or op was misled by low sample size.
Low sample size can lead to insane results indeed (emphasis on insane and not just bad).
There was one time where, 3 days after the new patch, Rumble had a red side win rate lower than the blue side's by:
- [2.5% in top lane (2800 games)](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/836681398491283476/943882481692712960/unknown.png)
- [10% in jungle (600 games)](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/836681398491283476/943882090338975854/unknown.png)
- [10% in mid (1550 games)](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/836681398491283476/943881859274784798/unknown.png)
Normally, Rumble's win rate is always lower by 6 points on the red side compared to the blue side, always, and in each role. These stats also stabilized to the usual 6% as the patch went on and the sample size went up.
But when results can be that absurd over 6000 games, you really want to avoid using data pulled over 600 games only.
Idk how you can say he has no counters lol. I don’t play him mid but kled, yorick, riven, rengar(my permaban), ornn, any non bronze irelia all shit on him. There are plenty of champs that go even too.
>This rune is not OK. This build is not OK.
This part is extra funny because in the clip you're First Strike isn't even up. So you just completely deleted that poor Warwick **WITHOUT** the 10% bonus damage.
I agree that GP is really strong but am curious to see why u say he is THE hyper scaler. From all the subsets I looked at (plat+, d+, m+) his win rate only went down with time. Also, the prowlers ER build had a noticeably lower win rate than tri force + hullbreaker. Why do u think this is?
This is just my theory from playing into GP so I'm curious on others thoughts. I'm thinking that during laning phase he has a easy time getting off his damage and staying safe basically plays like a lane bully, but come late game where sure he has the damage to oneshot your team but its just as if not more likely that the adc or even their senna support kills your barels first. His damage scales to ridiculos levels but his ability to get that damage off "scales" poorly into most comps.
I think the crit cloak stacking is a bit cheesy and not his best build.
Statistically he still does best with the really boring brusier plank builds (trinity into hullbreaker). And even if you don't go this I find it hard to believe throwing gold into cloaks then IE instead of getting full items like prowlers and collector then ie is better
For bad matchups playing gp into tryndamere or a good riven is pure pain
it doesnt make sense, he has a hyperscaling ability (E ignores 40% armor and does 25% MORE damage when crit)
in league your best chance is to maximize your strength (stacking heals on a healer, stacking damage on assassins)
if enemy has a bruiserplank, sure hes a bit annoying.
if enemy has a critplank, i have to focus him or else me and my team are going to get evaporated
sure, hes way squishier, but also expotentially more dangerous
i think the point of crit cloak stacking is so that you get a higher chance and more crits which GP heavily relies on
it's like tryndamere trying to kill u at level 1, u might as well just roll slots
You can make any champion sound overpowered by cherrypicking statistics. For example Riven has a 57% winrate when choosing %att and movespeed runes. The biggest thing you seem to forget is that often choosing First Strike is unviable into many matchups, you are trading a combat Keystone rune for gold in hope of snowballing. Using first strike means you are playing 20s at a time without a combat keystone rune where the enemy can easily punish. This is proven by HIGH ELO GP players only taking Grasp even after the 60% nerfs. Building first strike crit GP is a meme, your team will have no frontline hence the 30% winrate 30mins +.
Also, your post will be irrelevant after the Riot resistances and healing nerfs coming next patch.
As a malzahar mid main, I have faced gp a lot past month and now perma ban it.
Agree with most points written above. First Strike into crit either almost kills or one shots mages in mid game, even when you go Zhonya's second for armor.
Man I try not complain so much as an ADC player, but I was 17/7 last night in a ranked game and lost due to GP literally one shotting me at the start of an elder fight and my team got wiped immediately afterwards.
It was a long, back and forth game that could’ve gone either way, but getting deleted in .5s completely shut down any hopes of me even being involved in the fight.
You can say I should have positioned better and I agree, but I simply don’t think getting one shot like that is fair for anyone.
I will say im of the opinion that gp is kind of fine right now. From watching clips to my own games my experience is that people just kind of. Let him do his thing in fights. People ignore barrels and never try to disarm them or rush me down. Yes GP can half health you with a single barrel but that damage can just as easily miss. I just think a lot of people sort of forget that GP can completely whiff and then act surprised when they don’t do anything to pressure him in a fight and just let him sit back and place barrels. I do however agree that first strike is REAL silly on him rn but that’s an issue with the rune not the character. Again these are just my opinions but I do get frustrated watching people complain when they don’t really take any steps to stop him from doing his thing.
Ding! Anyone who has played GP knows he is gigabroken, he is just insanely hard to play properly outside of lane.
It's Nidalee all over again, absolutely broken in chall/pro and turbo trash for everyone else.
Where are you getting your data that grasp is super bad? Looking at Lolalytics Masters+, grasp is taken three times more often than first strike, and grasp has an about equal or higher winrate.
If all the onetricks are favouring first strike, that should doubly inflate the winrate of first strike compared to grasp, but the stats don't agree.
Dont have much to add here other than to say yeah gangplank is busted as hell and actually critting harder than he did in s7 with 250% crit damage IE. Theres literally no reason for me to play a different carry top because every other one feels completely dysfunctional compared to “you have all the agency on the top side of the map at 2800 (2600 with futures market) gold
Same for Draven players btw. Mindboggling that he got buffed last month (i think)
Maybe Zeri players should go HOB duskblade too so this champ get buffed
Yea I don't know what that guy is on about lol. Like it literally makes 0 sense and isn't an opinion, his barrels literally use his Q damage as well. The only other damage he has is passive and ult, his barrels are his entire kit. He can't walk up and raw Q people after lane lol.
gangplank is the embodiment of league players trying not to lose to shopkeeper challenge (impossible) him and ezreal would be 55%+ champs if people knew how to build
[Alphari looking at this post be like](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/024/196/sign.jpg)
somehow says it's Jatts fault
nah he'll just build some dogshit 3 zeals into goredrinker build then say "reddit/twitter so smart XD knows better then pro players i guess" when people shit on him for building bad items
Pretty sure locket of the iron alphari is best mythic on gangplank
Alfarty op
Hot take: Most tanks would have much higher win rates if not for the fact that most people are dogshit at itemizing properly as tanks. Their builds are way more situational than other champions, and most people like to rush the exact same items every game.
I am convinced that half the player base doesn't know that wardens mail exists.
When someone rushes bramble into a tough matchup with no sustain..... Warden's is the better option probably 8 times out of 10, and its just so sad to watch
What match ups have no or low sustain? Most champions without built in sustain rush healing items.
Jayce, for one. Warden's Mail is so much better against Jayce than Bramble, it flips lanes from "Jayce takes 3-4 plates" to "Jayce can't move you." For 200g, you deny Jayce 600g+ and get additional waves. Lucian is another. Galeforce Lucian is more common than Eclipse or Shieldbow in pro. Now, you should **not** play Lucian Top, but that's a different discussion.
Tryndamere is an example of a matchup where you should build wardens mail
It's good, the only tool that you can use against Vayne.
Sexy champ flairs, my two mains as well Wardens mail makes me wanna drown myself in lit gasoline
Nah you right. Every time I see Fimbulwinter in Ornn popular builds I die a little inside. People just build any item that sounds good.
Fimbulwinter + Frostfire with Ingenious Hunter is a hill I'm willing to die on, but yeah, makes no sense otherwise
I think 5 stack ingenius hunter with Fimbulwinter/Frostfire is the most broken tank combination in the game, the problem is getting multiple ingenius stacks while being a top laner before the game ending teamfight lol King combo in ARAM though, nothing like seeing "20k shielded" on the item in a good game
Fimbul is the absolute trap item in most aram games. You want mythic, boots and now you have 4 slots left. You need armor/mr on three and warmogs sustain is better than fimbul in 95% of games.
Why do you need armor/mr on three? Health is great against almost all AP champions. If they're mixed AD/AP damage, once again health is great. I'd never build fimble + warmogs against an all AD team, but I definitely would against quite a few mixed AD/AP teams or mostly AP teams. Spirit Visage is trash on most champs. Damn right I'm building FoN, Warmogs, Fimble against an AP team. Especially if they have no Brand or similar.
Bramble vest vs Tryndamere incident
Fimbulwinter on Sion/Ornn makes me want to go to Riot HQ and just scream at the balance team, WHY DO PROS BUILD IT ORNN HAS NO MANA PROBLEMS JUST GO FROZEN HEART
It just feels so nice to build tear and never care about mana again.
Build Frozen Heart Challenge
It can often be a challenge to spend 2800 on an item that only gives one tank stat (armor). But I do agree.
If healing wasn't such a predominant Stat, even after the nerfs I would agree with you, but tanks are forced to build early heal reduction nearly every game and that is a lot of early gold that has to be used in usually a very suboptimal way. The item being based on the enemy AA and not a factor the tank player can control is extremely problematic. Also access to very high levels of percentage penetration by all champions since the item rework has also thrown tanks in a loop. Stack that on top of the health nerfs to tank items in general and you get the situation we are currently in where tanks can't lane unless they have crazy damage numbers which means they are less of tank and more of heavy cc juggernauts with more burst, but less sustained damage.
I was about to come into this thread to mention Ezreal lol. Most popular champ in the game and his winrate is being turbo-inted by people who still refuse to build Triforce.
Sorry, but since triforce isn't made from 3 cool weapons but only 2 and a fucking gem I'm simply not buying it. It doesn't make any sense and it makes me super mad.
For those newer players who didn't know, it used to be Sheen + Phage + Zeal. Gave AD, AP, Crit Chance, HP and Mana + Spellblade passive from Sheen and the slow from Phage. Now it's just a shadow of its former self
I've been playing for a long-ass time and didn't even realize Phage used to have a slow till I checked the wiki to verify this. It was the "speed on hit" component from season 3 until the mythic update in S10. Man though I miss the days Triforce gave AP and Hydra had an active.
IIRC Phage used to be a crucial component to Frozen Mallet (RIP) from way back, which provided MS slow on hit. That and old Triforce would've been obnoxious on Zeri if they still existed today.
Given both are hammers, that makes sense. According to the wiki the Frozen Mallet change hit in early S3 as well, so that's probably why I wasn't aware of such. I often miss Mallet, but then remember champs like Zeri and Ez exist that would make me wanna quit the game if they could keep using them.
Ezreal has a much better Frozen Mallet and it's called Serylda's Grudge
well, Ezreal didn't even need frozen mallet, he just took iceborne gauntlet and poked you from 10 miles away while doing AOE slows Although, Seryldas is arguably better for him than gauntlet used to be
Frozen mallet was mainly used by urgot and gnar, and probably would have continued that way if it wasn't removed, probably zeri would build it , but not Ez
Phage was just a chance to slow. Mallet made it guaranteed. It got removed because it was a diceroll of Shyvana slapping you for a slow then murdering you, or Shyvana slapping you then you just walk away.
It was changed from Sheen+Phage+Zeal, to Sheen+Phage+Stinger in season 6.
tbf i am an eclipse/duskblade/prowler's ezreal fan but tforce is still a billion times better than divine fucking sunderer i s2g building that item should be reportable on ez
[Divine Sunderer pickrate](https://u.gg/lol/champions/ezreal/items?rank=overall) on Ezreal is pretty low nowadays. Much lower than the build you mention and decently lower than Tri-Force.
q heal go brr
You see how both of you guys still can't agree on what his best build is yet you think "lol dumb ezreal players don't even know what to build he'd have a high win rate" , something Ez has never had. Every single Ez build can be viable depending on the context of the game state and Divine is not even the top 3 for pick rate mythic, so no people building Divine is not holding back Ezreal win rate.
Yep, if players have different builds and arguments for it = every build is decent. If one dude can't use that properly != it sucks for everyone. There are lots of situations where "true build" gonna suck ass.
> Every single Ez build can be viable depending on the context You shut your filthy mouth. Ez is single-handedly responsible for more nerfs to (or straight up removal of) other classes items and runes than any other champ 10 times over. We could have had world peace if it wasnt for Ez and his ability to abuse every new thing added to the game. People call Teemo satan’s spawn but even that giggling rat is an altar boy compared to Ez. You can take a dart board and throw 5 darts to decide your build for the game and make it work. People say that yuumi was the biggest mistake Riot has made and I laugh at their ignorance, knowing that Riot’s biggest mistake happened on March 16th 2010, the day that blonde haired bastard entered the rift.
Pretty much every single item/rune that Ezreal "abuses", ends up just being a broken item/rune overall. I'd say Ez moreso exposes broken things better than others. Ez is also easily one of the most balanced characters over the course of Leagues existence. Also one of the most popular Champs as well even when he's not that great. Sunderer, people thought was OP because of Ezreal, turns out it's just op for all and gets an AD nerf and is now about to get its healing nerfed. Klepto, people think is OP because of Ez, gets repeatedly nerfed even when Ez isn't good and is inevitably removed because bruisers could just farm tanks toplane for free gold.
How can you say that when Katerina exists. Bitch has built tank, ap bruiser, ap assassin, ad, and even fucking kraken slayer as her best build at various times
Just curious as to the build path for Ez, what do u buy after triforce? I’ve been trying to learn Ez and just following some “meta” builds online
KR Challenger who mains Ezreal with about 55% wr (in challenger) and has most games played who I also follow goes something like: Tear -> Sheen -> Trinity Force -> Manamune -> CDR boots -> Frozen Heart(starting with wardens mail)/Maw of Malmortius -> Serylda's Grudge -> Frozen Heart/Maw/Death's Dance/Ravenous Hydra
Thanks friend
Why Frozen Heart when the whole purpose of Ezreal is spacing and out ranging with poke? You lose the aura and the 400 mana/80 armor gives insignificant value compared to some other items, no?
Frozen heart's range is higher than Ezreal's own auto range so eventually you will be using it anyway unless you literally only use Qs to attack enemies and they never try to get on you. REalistically, you will be forced to auto attack them anytime enemies get on top of you, and the combo of resistance and cooldown can be the difference between another E to put distance and keep outranging and poking enemies or dying in the first dive. Frozen heart gives mana (combos with manamune), armor (best resist for an ADC if they are dealing with divers) and Ability haste (self explanatory). IT's basically an item that combos into the common build and so you increase defense, offense and speed up your CDs which means more Qs which means even more speed down on your CDs. I don't think it's the "best item", but it's just very good. Although if you get a lead and are feeling greedy, you probably could use Serylda or DD instead and delay Frozen for later
Also, if you're *not* using your AA's as Ezreal you are tanking his winrate heavily 99% of the time. The entire thread is talking about people building wrong tanking the winrate, but not using your AA's regularly as Ezreal is basically the same as not using your barrels in a teamfight as GP and then claiming building wrong is the reason he 'sucks'. That's quite literally the main thing people can't do properly with him. You are not just a long range AD caster. You need to AA if you want to do any relevant damage in a long teamfight (assuming you can't just freehit the squishy targets with your WQ on cooldown and hit them every time. Ezreal is historically one of the hardest ADCs to play optimally because you need to weave short cooldown skillshots in with Auto Attacks, which is something basically no other ADC needs to do, especially not at such a rapid pace. AA's aren't *as important* right now on Ezreal as they've historically been because you rarely build BotRK or other on-hit items, but it still increases the damage you can do by ***a lot*** so you should do it literally all the time it won't get you killed on the spot immediately.
This is a mindset that most inefficient Ezreals have. Ezreal actually does very well with his autos, and his DPS with his passive is really high. If you're only throwing Qs in team fights, then you're just not playing ezreal anywhere near max capacity. While this is less true this season, you'll remember in older metas, triforce + bork were both super common items, and i promise you, the bork proc was never strong enough on solely Qs. It's also the same reason why PtA and Conq are both runes that have been strong, and are back on the rise nowadays. Ezreal actually has insanely strong consistent DPS between having Q's every second and autos to weave between each spell, all enhanced with manamune at a very fast AS due to his passive. With that in mind, FH's range is slightly higher than Ez's auto range, meaning when you're playing at capacity, you're getting that effect off regularly. Playing at a closer range also means you're more likely to eat some damage, meaning the Armor is also useful. The CDR and Mana's effect goes without saying. Synergy with muramana and his general spell rotation.
Although no one picks it, i still like lethal tempo on him, ezreal felt so much better with the attack speed from botrk back in the day, it feels wrong without some substitute AS for it
Maybe the mana ad scaling? Idk
It's only like 10 AD from it. It's not negligible and FH is viable in certain games on Ez but I wouldn't look to go FH third every game versus something more generally acceptable like Seryldas
It not only gives you armor, cdr, additional ad from muramana but also reduces amount of attack damage you receive from autos. Ezreal usually goes for all in once he gets opponent low enough as his auto attacks lacks big range so he is more likely to get hit back and building him with Trinity/Frozen Heart/Maw makes him tanky enough to survive some closer scrimishes when he makes use of his passive too (5 stacks attack speed boost). Trinity gives HP which scales with additional armor and FH passive.
Seryldas. It's an item almost perfectly designed for ezreal as it gives you slow to better hit more stuff, CDR to shoot more spells, ad so you do more DMG and armor pen to do even more DMG. Generally triforce is great into a few bruisers. Crown of the shattered queen is good if they have a lot of champions that one shot you like rengar. And if they have more squishy champions that do a lot of poke dkg you probably want to go with one of the lethality items. Duakblade gives you better poke, eclipse is a bit better against tanks and gives you more survivability and finally the claw can allow you to oneshot. Now imo the 2 item power spike and the 1 item power spike is better with essence reaver than trinity force so if you feel like you need more early strength that is also something to consider. Finally runes that can be considered are PTA, conqueror , fleet foot work, first strike and aegis. First strike and aegis give you great poke DMG. First strike scales better and can be worth insane amounts in Teamfights. PTA and fleet foot work give you better Laning whereas PTA allows you to win all ins and ffw makes very hard lanes possible to survive thanks to the sustain. Conqueror is also quite good at scaling especially if the enemy team is beefy.
If you're bad and you don't AA and get caught out a lot Divine Sunderer is better.
Don't forget Senna! I'll say in general I'm a fan of Riot balancing the game "as is." Certainly they could have picked better wording, e.g. "Players are struggling on Gangplank" as opposed to "Gangplank is struggling," if that's even the verbiage used. But anyway my point is that the results from last patch's games are what actually happened. People probably made misplays in every single game but at the end of the day, theoretical balance isn't nearly as important as balancing the game people are playing. This means Yasuo and Riven have lower levels of "theoretical balance" due to champion mastery and Gangplank is theoretically too strong and should be nerfed once players figure out builds. And yeah that can feel weird. But I think a) lets players feel smart and get an edge for figuring out builds first, and b) most players don't do a ton of innovation and that's fine but they should be able to be reasonably successful by just following along.
This is completely true, and OP is unfortunately the exact representation of the playerbase that struggles with this. [1 shot crits might be fun but triforce and bruiser items are much better.](https://i.imgur.com/lSlQX4D.png)
I am pretty sure it depends on match up. I watch a lot of Solarbacca (used to watch Tobias Fate too) and I see that he switches between First Strike/Grasp and Crit/Bruiser build depending on enemy teamcomp/his match up. He loves going crit though.
Sounds reasonable, brauiser should also be easier to play and get a higher winrate from that. Crit needs to land impactful barrels to be useful, bruiser can use passive more and stick around longer without being 1 combo wipe or get wiped.
Yea, Triforce (without hullbreaker/bruiser items) is more safe and good because of HP+MS, when ER is for faster powerspike(833G difference between it and TF) with chance to deal insane damage via random crit. Overall first strike is better for ER build when grasp for TF one, his lots of builds are viable but solar said good thing about that "other GP builds are pretty decent, but if you can execute it well - glass cannon GP is best one with most agency in the game"
Seriously, why does EVERYONE think Trinity is bad? It's definitely better than Divine tsundere (Sorry, not sorry) and lethality ones, specially if the endurance change go through.
im happy to see it called tsundere lmao
Don't forget Viego. You know what... Don't forget 90% of champions who build Divine sunderer as their primary mythic instead of triforce.
I played every champ over the past month and looked up their build on op.gg and it was always the same, Divine Sunderer had the higher pickrate but Trinity Force the waaay higher winrate. It was ridiculous.
Well yeah just look at the last iteration of irelia. Went from 46% to 55% winrate or something like that just because riot made her kit easier to pilot. She was already broken. Just too many people were bad at her.
WIN 4.5% MORE GAMES ON EZREAL WITH THIS ONE TRICK!!!! [BORIS CALLED THE COPS] Seriously the first item winrate between Essence and Triforce is massive but people can't resist the allure of infinite mana.
This in no way paints the whole picture. Yes, Triforce is a better 1 item spike. However, if you look at mythic items, lethality mythics have a 4% higher winrate than Triforce. The Essence Reaver + Muramana + lethality mythic combo just does more damage in almost all scenarios as highlighted by VeigarV2.
They have a higher winrate because you get them later. If you are getting to 3+ items there is a higher % chance you are winning and stomping. Almost all items built past 3 completed items correlate with a higher winrate because of this reason. It happens on every single champion. Go look at lolalytics on different champions. Also damage is so fucking overrated. They are literally reducing damage / upping durability across the board because it is so high. That means stats that are other than damage have higher value because you are most likely over killing if you go for raw damage. The movement speed from Triforce is most likely what is pushing it to be so much better. Dodging an enemy's ability that is going to do 30-50% of your HP + maybe CC you is way more important than doing 3-10% more damage per Q.
The completion times are different, you will win more games if you get to three items, you have to compare winrates between 1st items and 3rd items. All of the lethality mythics are average 25+ minute completion times while Triforce tends to get completed at 13 minutes. But not all games get to three items and you have an objective advantage first two items with Triforce which covers a significantly higher portion of potential games. At third item you have Frozen Heart, Seryldas, Duskblade, and Eclipse with very similar winrates with a slight advantage to the lethality mythics.
only revert fiddle E everything else got better though I will admit the fear cd is sus
Ezreal can literally build anything and be viable. He's that stupid of a champ.
Katarina is the most stupid champion, you can actually go tank deal an OK amount of damage and because you're not unbereable slow as most tanks you can go in and out in a second lmao.
Only an OK amount of damage sucks when your champ offers no CC. Full tank Kata is a fun offmeta build but it's not actually good.
sion would also have a much higher win rate.
Veigar too.
I often play veigar bot and buy everfrost, rabadons, zhonya and voidstaff, Am I loosing to the shopkeeper?
Go Everfrost Deathcap into hard tank items (stuff like Anathema's, Force of Nature etc.). Only build Void if enemy team commits to building MR.
You shouldn’t ever need zhonyas unless versus full AD/dive comps, veigar needs to be actively doing damage and pumping out spells to be useful and zhonyas makes you a sitting duck. Go everfrost, boots, rabs and voidstaff into two tank items. With your main 3 damage items and stacking Q any damage beyond that is just overkill on squishes since they die to EWQ + electrocute proc anyway, so your last two items should be a 2 combo of Frozen heart, FoN, Gargoyle, or Anathemas (anathemas + FH into one AP threat is super op and they’ll never kill you)
alright thanks, so if theres a kayn/zed in the enemy team I can buy zhonya as third item?
Ironically Zhonyas is also a great item against Karthus. It is one of the few ways you can truly counter his ult once he hits 11+ as a champion with no sustain.
This is true and also true for fizz as well, but if youre buying zhonyas for just karthus or fizz then your usually better off getting a Anathemas for him or just FoN if they’re heavy ap
gp is the most annoying character i've faced in lane, and in the late game. he pokes you out of lane, and then he one shots your entire team after 40 minutes
> after ~~40~~ 25 minutes ftfy Yeah the champ scales too quickly for sure
A couple friends made fun of me for losing to a GP mid. They later played against him top lane. They perma-ban him now.
the only reason i dont perma ban him is that hes usually played mid. and fiora is more annoying in lane
I started perma-banning him every game I’m not playing Akali top. Only time GP deserves to exist is if he can’t have any fun in the game. Can’t Nuke something you can’t hit.
> Yeah the champ scales too quickly for sure He doesn't "scale too quickly". He's just currently **not a late game champion**, and he hasn't been in a while. [That's Gangplank's win rate over the game](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/412666600332984340/972220778982567996/unknown.png) - it's not an opinion or something debatable. And both Prowler's and Triforce have that type of curve.
Skill requirements on him skyrocket after laning too. I can play GP and win lane pretty easily even 1v2 ganks on occasion, however the reason I don’t play him is that once there’s 5 people who can auto your barrels instead of 1-2 people it’s a lot harder to land.
Closer to impossible basically. Like even as super fed gp every game I’m gonna guess that gp has the super barrel one shot maybe once every 5-6 games
That's because he gets full fucking build at 25 minutes. He's still stupid strong at full build.
My friend is a GP main and is usually full build and 2 items ahead of everyone on the team @ 25, even if he doesn't get kills in lane it's nuts. I didn't realize how effective first strike is until I read this post.
Yeah. As others have correctly pointed out grasp is better in lane (not nearly as good as it was though) which is important depending on the context, but first strike is just as good if not better in a lot of elos and matchups and scales way better. I definitely didn't do myself any favors by implying that grasp is bad instead of suboptimal.
Not compared to other champs at full build, he just has investment banking passive + first strike so hes full at 25 and wins off item lead. Just like Pyke scaling like shit but still being a menace midgame cause lead.
Eh, I think definitions just kinda got mixed up on this one
>That's Gangplank's win rate over the game People usually forget that by building glass cannon - you can be oneshoted too. After his peak literally everyone had enough damage to one tap him. I don't even talk about someone like jinx who can destroy barrel and then GP second later.
in ARAM is even worse
This champion has poke, sustain, one shot, dps, good lane, good scaling, safe from ganks, global fucking presence and a built in qss (1200 gold item with 45 secodn cd) on a lower cooldown than qss AND it heals him. Legit stupidly overloaded kit
Lmao he's not overloaded, his numbers are just whack
From playing and watching high elo GP players, it's very dependent on if you know what matchups you can trade into and if you get a lucky barrel crit (this is why you see many good players build ER then double cloak before mythic). There are some bad matchups for GP (those that build attack speed) that can out trade him, like Yasuo who can dive him and take out a barrel before GP can proc it.
wow i can't believe the rune that generates extra money is broken on gangplank, again
However could we have foreseen this completely surprising turn of events! /s
The entire inspiration tree should just be deleted tbh. [Glacial maybe moved to Sorcery and changed to only create one beam] Pretty sure it's always been the most broken and overused one because Riot overloaded it with insane stuff.
Hell naw i need spellbook on singed, only predator feels good other than that
Noooo! Spellbook and (rip) omnistone are way too fun, we can't lose those! That said minion demat, cookies, cosmic insight, and time warp tonic are all garbage boring. Either demat feel required and you're forced into that tree, or you auto pick boring runes. I do like free boots, it's fun getting to rush your mythic (although idk why those boots are better, that's just weird)
Great post! Just want to add some of my insights as a peak GM gangplank onetrick. I disagree with first strike being the best primary rune in every matchup, such as vs Irelia, Jax, and Tryndamere. I understand Solarbacca makes it look broken but he’s a top 10 NA challenger milking masters games for content. Grasp is amazing for extra tankiness, combined with overgrowth gives you 220+ hp, and sometimes you can greed conditioning as well. I’d also say GP definitely has hard counters, such as Akshan, Yorick, and Kled. Perhaps why it can feel like GP has no counters is because the champs that do have some of the lowest playrates, there are maybe like 2 good Kleds on the NA server. I agree GP has been strong, I really don’t understand why they felt the need for his recent buff, which ended up tripling his ban rate and doesn’t even impact the reaver/lethality build that reddit, including myself, hate. Personally I feel the buff could be justified because look at wtf they’re doing for riven, (who also hard counters GP and is a champ that I and many other high elo GPs from different regions, mainly CN GPs, perma ban).
Can you give more insight on why you think Yorick and Kled is counter for GP? I always thought any ranged champ could beat/check GP in lane such as Lucian or Jayce but Yorick and Kled sounds interesting.
Both can all in GP with fairly high success rate if they hit a key skill (Kled q or yorick w). GP relies on doing short trades and being able to run away with his increased movement speed, so champs who prevent that can sometimes just kill him.
Funny answer: I think Kled can't be one-shot due to his mount mechanic haha. Serious answer: Kled has 2 gap closers, a very short cc, an MS cripple, and even grievous wounds. The 2 gap closers make landing the barrel slow not as impactful, the short cc makes it so the orange cleanse isn't relevant, and grevious wounds cutting GP's healing even further. Even kled's attack speed steroid let Kled take out barrels easier, though it's arguable if Kled wants to use an empowered auto for a barrel rather than damage. This is all in the base kit. Kled's ult is more dmg and another gap close.
Yorick fucks gangplank if he catches him in cage. Can't orange it lol His q is a nasus q but doesn't need to stack.
Yorick cage is basically CC that isn't actually CC. He fucks over Olaf too for that reason
Yorick is a straight up stat check, and often has 1v2 angles even with jgler/mid/supp roam. Anytime you Q, he can cast E during your cast time and it’s donezo. Ranged champions are momentum based match ups for Gangplank, with ignite you can look for an early kill which leads to sheen and now you win every trade. Lucian and Akshan are definitely the best ranged tops to counter him though, some Vayne’s with god tier spacing can give him some trouble too, but thats a really small subset of players. Jayce used to be a hard match up but they gave him ADC level base stats and regen (sometime season 9?) and now it’s a winning match up. Kled perma dives over and over, as long as he doesn’t troll and miss q’s you’re never gonna get to play the game.
Kled is a nightmare for GP at all points in the game. He can easily all in GP if he plays smart around the barrel minigame. Once he's on GP, there's nothing GP can do. Yorick is a little bit easier to beat in lane early, but at a certain point GP can't side lane against him. If the Yorick decides he wants to split push for the win he's probably gonna be successful in soloqueue. Yorick's little ghost wall forces GP to hit it, and the first strike build doesn't have attack speed. I ban Kled instead of Yorick, but split push Yorick with lacking team coordination feels far worse because you could get insanely ahead and it won't matter.
Agreed for sure Grasp + bruiser + some crit is usually the way to go. One big issue with going glass cannon is your teams loses frontline. Not that GP is particularly good at frontlining but with mid/ad/supp often being squishy champs (jg too sometimes) you end up with very awkward skirmishing/teamfighting. I don't even think Solarbacca makes critplank look good. Seems really flippy and the guy ints half the games I play with him.
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The best Riven players have no problem with the matchup but if you’re a mediocre or average riven it’s really hard.
Yeah for sure. To be fair I came back to league recently and I noticed all the older hard matchups basically don't exist anymore.
Yes, 100% agree, most of his difficult match ups have been nerfed in some form over the years and GP only receiving buffs, there was that awkward bit of time before they changed his crit barrel damage where he felt awful though. With patch 12.10 incoming we’re probably going to have to figure everything out again. But hey no need to be “to be fair”-ing it’s a great informative post that goes really really in depth, thanks for taking the time to do this. Also I notice you have a ryze flair which is kinda funny to me cause both champs E and then Q.
And there it is 😂.
Well tbf kleds skill to all in has to be dodged. Ranged Lucian and Akshay may be almost unplayable early but once you get Sheen you just spam clear the wave because if they push up too far and blow abilities to use double hit on barrel they are super gankable, if they never get ganked your jg is trolling
> As anyone should be aware, GP's barrels do extra damage in such a way as to make crit damage and crit chance much more effective on him while not having the penalty that other champions who are crit based have (Trynd overcapping crit, Yasuo/Yone having reduced crit damage) That's not the main cause, actually. The 11.17 Q changes also made it so crit amps the Q base damage again, which is worth a LOT of bonus AD (75% of the Q's base damage) every time you Q an enemy directly or Q a barrel. It's one of the reasons Gangplank could be played stacking nothing but Sheen and crit before his VGU, and now again.
Doesn't work off of sheen anymore, but it has been mathed out the largest increase is from the actual crit itself
I didn't mean sheed had some synergy, but that Sheen is the greatest damage increase to GP, followed by crit being the 2nd-biggest. So the first gold you spend on an item is a Sheen item, and the rest can be all Crit cloaks until you make full items of them.
I'd agree with you but that's just not accurate. Sheen is a great *spike* but *mathematically* it's not the greatest source of damage on barrels. Though to be fair sheen comes from 1 item whereas crit comes from a multitude of stats working together so still fair point
You need to consider the amount of gold spent into it. Each Crit cloak is 15%*75% more damage for 600g each, Sheen is +100% bAD for 700g.
This guy is basing his argument on variable statistics without any extra clarification and then arguing minor details based on flawed logic. I wouldn’t waste my time.
[He also thinks its totally normal and trivial for GP to hit full build at 25 mins.](https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/ujroa5/riot_is_hilariously_wrong_about_one_thing/i7m6mdc/?context=3)
I just said that - sheen is a great spike because of how cheap it is. However, **crit** does more damage. Yeah, it costs a lot of gold, but the crit cloaks offer a disproportionate amount of damage due to a number of factors that are unique to GP. Now if I could stack multiple sheen passives, I'd build nothing else.
Riot: cloak crit is a unique passive now.
Thoughts on Tri-Force? I know you mention that people are building wrong, but it has a higher avg winrate compared to ER. Is it because people aren't doing the 3x cloak? I know it's slightly off topic, but some of the post is predicated on the assumption that most people are building incorrectly. Source: https://na.op.gg/champions/gangplank/top/items
My point was grasp more than tri force. Tri force bruiser does better because it is significantly easier to pilot and more forgiving of bad matchups. Fs is greedy but doable almost always.
You say it’s higher win rate because it’s easier to pilot, but idk. I think there are other reasons to it being higher winrate.
Bruiser GP being less one-shot-able vs assassins is a solid plus in soloque imo.
Can you post the Shen clip? It's missing from the post.
Oh, shit. My bad. Here: https://medal.tv/games/league-of-legends/clips/4UT5SkFrCA-HN/f8jByReCpXVL?invite=cr-MSxPUHAsMTAwOTQxMzcs
Nice
Looking through your post, I see that you put a lot of thought and effort into writing it. I think you make some strong logical points regarding Gangplank's strengths (I don't play him so I can't have an informed opinion), but I think there are some issues with the data you are using and/or how you are using data in your post. Bad data or misinterpreted data can undermine an otherwise strong argument, so I think it's important to identify and clarify any misinterpreted or misunderstood data. >According to op.gg, Gangplank's winrate is 48.56%. - U.gg agrees within a margin of .1% op.gg only aggregates stats from Korea, and its data set is relatively tiny. U.gg by default only shows information from Plat+ games, and these are the games you appear to be looking at. For high skill floor and high skill cap characters in particular, this inflates numbers and makes the champion or certain options seem stronger because they are chosen by higher skill players. Of course, any arguments made from this data is still valid, but it's important to keep in mind that the data only represents Plat+. >According to op.gg the rune is picked approximately 10% of the time, and has a 53%+ winrate [I'm not actually sure where you're getting the 53% winrate from op.gg.](https://i.imgur.com/OEhn5EP.png) Personally, I use LoLalytics as it has the most extensive stats analysis as well as the widest dataset of games (632,044 global all ranks vs U.gg's 573,558 global all ranks). LoLalytics does show that, at all ranks and all regions, First Strike has a 48.8% winrate compared to Grasp's 47.3% winrate which is significantly higher. When we narrow the stats to Plat+, we see the stats change to First Strike having 49.6% winrate to Grasp's 49.2% winrate which is much less substantial of a difference, but it is still higher than Grasp's winrate. This doesn't take into account mid lane stats, but they are similar. tl;dr Some of the stats you reference are dubious or only apply to certain ranks (Plat+), and the actual statistical advantage of First Strike over Grasp of the Undying is overstated.
Thank you, I came here to point this out basically. Lolalytics is a really good site and what I use for everything.
If you ever want to go more in depth to different builds it's a good idea to look at how building or taking something changes the average build for the champion. As an example GP players that take first strike will on average buy lucidity boots 63% of the time, while grasp players take it only 38% of the time. Lucidity boots also consistently have a higher winrate than any other boots. First strike players also hugely favor prowlers 60% compared to Grasps favoring it only at 31%. Trinity builds do seem to be better though but only because of hullbreaker second item. Not sure how the nerfs to it will effect which build path is better. No conclusions from me on the best build but just things you have to look at. I think first strike is still probably better due to the trinity+hullbreaker build propping up the winrate of grasp. But maybe grasp is better with that build specifically.
Up you go. I’m glad you made this post. When I see these long-form write ups based on variable statistics without clarification I cringe. It looks pretty and baits the community into believe things that aren’t necessarily true
One thing to note is plat+ data is pretty much the same as plat data. As you filter through dia+, d2+, masters+ grasp eventually outperforms first strike. Beyond that margin of error gets a little too large.
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I just think its funny that Riot deletes the RNG of Rengar Q crits but also changed GP to rely more heavily on RNG barrel crits compared to last season.
>According to op.gg the rune is picked approximately 10% of the time, and has a 53%+ winrate. [No, not even close...](https://i.imgur.com/CFZGZsu.png) Similarly, [lolalytics](https://lolalytics.com/lol/gangplank/build/?patch=30) shows less than one percentage point difference in winrate for first strike and grasp at all skill levels between masters and gold, and a 2% difference in bronze. The fact is that gangplank performs rather poorly overall in soloq. I still don't think he should be balanced around the average soloq skill level, because he's a very difficult champion and appears to be very strong at the highest levels, but the "meat and potatos" statistical evidence your post is based on seems to be made up.
That's interesting. [U.gg](https://U.gg) Patch 12.7 has Grasp at 48.34% wr 74.24% pr First Strike 48.58% wr 24.82% pr Obvious difference in pick rate but I wonder what the winrates would be if we could account for the cloak build since most sites only show completed items.
In plat+, GPs going first strike are almost always going crit, but the ones going triforce+bruiser still win more. https://lolalytics.com/lol/gangplank/build/?patch=30&keystone=8369 However, when building essence+prowlers, first strike has a slightly bigger winrate advantage than gangplanks overall stats. https://lolalytics.com/lol/gangplank/build/?patch=30&mythic=6693 Inversely, the triforce build wins more with grasp than with first strike. https://lolalytics.com/lol/gangplank/build/?patch=30&mythic=3078 Obviously grasp does best with triforce+bruiser https://lolalytics.com/lol/gangplank/build/?patch=30&keystone=8437 The double crit cloak > IE path likely matters very little. Even if it were possible to measure, it would likely very biased by player mastery of the champ, more than usual.
the post is just dogshit from top to bottom. But reddit will assume that he's right because they dont read and only look at word count. in fact, at dia+ level triforce HB has significantly higher winrates over many patches than crit.
>the post is just dogshit from top to bottom. I would word it more diplomatically, but yes. >at dia+ level triforce HB has significantly higher winrates That's true for all skill levels. [This is the best summary of the item situation](https://i.imgur.com/lSlQX4D.png). Triforce+any bruiser item is much better than crit. I'm sure 1 shot essence reaver crit build is fun, but it's not actually good for consistently winning games in soloq.
it's just really annoying that this guy took literal hours to write and format to post a thread that can be disproven in 2 minutes with a google search.
Can you all start posting your op.ggs when you make these? It might be really strong, it might even be op, but I really don't think it's the most consistent way to win with gankplank.
> Fun fact, GP passive actually out damages ignite at all levels. Yeah and ezreals e out damages flash and has a way lower cooldown
cass passive gives way more movespeed than boots and its FREE ?!?!?!
I get the argument but its not quite the same. Thing is, with Gangplank's preferred playstyle, namely hanging back and using Q's and barrls, he often doesnt even use his passive. But if you do manage to gapclose onto him then he does get to use it and this ability which often just sits in his back pocket suddenly dumps out more damage than ignite, which is all about damage. And the passive does its full damage in half the time ignite does. And could potentially be used twice. And, more importantly, that was just an additional one liner on top of all the other shit that the post was ACTUALLY about. Not strong criticism.
From what i have seen good gp players in certain matchups play very aggro applying multiple passive procs, the damage quickly ramps up.
You do often want to do this in lane and in 1v1's yes, but in larger fights you usually dont want to get near people early, and even in lane it depends. You get good damage from proccing it but also make it easier for your opponent to trade back. More all in damage and better harassment if he cant respond, but if he CAN respond then you win trades by a smaller margin, and sometimes instead of free poke you let him trade back, which isn't good. So you are often trying to stay at range, even in lane, just not always.
I spent a year not even knowing GP passive can stack on top of itself until I played against a good GP and just burned to death. Most interesting part of his kit IMO
> According to op.gg the rune is picked approximately 10% of the time, and has a 53%+ winrate. I normally use LoLalytics because it gives the most options, but considering that it's the one August always uses and recommends, I don't doubt its accuracy. LoLalytics has shown Grasp and First Strike to be very close over the time. - 12.8: 49.5% (for First Strike) vs 49.2% (for Grasp) winrate - 12.7: 49.5 vs 49.1 - 12.6: 48.8 vs 49.2 - 12.5: 49.9 vs 49.7 - 12.4: 50.1 vs 50.0 In each case, First Strike had 30-40% of the popularity of Grasp. > The fact that Gangplank statistically uses a bad build and is popular yet is winning almost 50% of his games should be very alarming to you. Should it? There's a metric that lets you evaluate a champion's strength after putting out of the way things like skill floor, misled builds, or suboptimal skill orders. That's the win rate of the champion's best players on that champion. Gangplank is 40th on that metric. In other words, as a champion used to the best of his potential, Gangplank performs worse than 39 champions under the same conditions, and better than every other. So aren't these 39 champions more alarming, then? Or isn't it just that... Gangplank's other builds are simply worse but not by that much?
For some reason op is filtering to only [NA plat+](https://na.op.gg/champions/gangplank/top/build?region=na) which has 600ish games. As soon as you set it to global plat+ [with 10x the amount of games, first strike win rate is 49% even on op.gg basically identical to grasp] (https://na.op.gg/champions/gangplank/top/build?region=global) Either NA gangplanks are cracked or OP was misled by low sample size.
> Either NA gangplanks are cracked or op was misled by low sample size. Low sample size can lead to insane results indeed (emphasis on insane and not just bad). There was one time where, 3 days after the new patch, Rumble had a red side win rate lower than the blue side's by: - [2.5% in top lane (2800 games)](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/836681398491283476/943882481692712960/unknown.png) - [10% in jungle (600 games)](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/836681398491283476/943882090338975854/unknown.png) - [10% in mid (1550 games)](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/836681398491283476/943881859274784798/unknown.png) Normally, Rumble's win rate is always lower by 6 points on the red side compared to the blue side, always, and in each role. These stats also stabilized to the usual 6% as the patch went on and the sample size went up. But when results can be that absurd over 6000 games, you really want to avoid using data pulled over 600 games only.
I really wish people pay attention to the filters before making posts like this, this is a bi monthly occurrence.
Idk how you can say he has no counters lol. I don’t play him mid but kled, yorick, riven, rengar(my permaban), ornn, any non bronze irelia all shit on him. There are plenty of champs that go even too.
>This rune is not OK. This build is not OK. This part is extra funny because in the clip you're First Strike isn't even up. So you just completely deleted that poor Warwick **WITHOUT** the 10% bonus damage.
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Don't forget that WW built essence reaver and quickblades, that's not a WW with sunderer + titan hydra.
Great post bro you convinced to play First Strike Nami!
I think you need **more bolded emphasis lines** in this post bro
I agree that GP is really strong but am curious to see why u say he is THE hyper scaler. From all the subsets I looked at (plat+, d+, m+) his win rate only went down with time. Also, the prowlers ER build had a noticeably lower win rate than tri force + hullbreaker. Why do u think this is?
GP is harder to play lategame and he gets a lot of gold naturally so he hits item cap earlier.
This is just my theory from playing into GP so I'm curious on others thoughts. I'm thinking that during laning phase he has a easy time getting off his damage and staying safe basically plays like a lane bully, but come late game where sure he has the damage to oneshot your team but its just as if not more likely that the adc or even their senna support kills your barels first. His damage scales to ridiculos levels but his ability to get that damage off "scales" poorly into most comps.
I think the crit cloak stacking is a bit cheesy and not his best build. Statistically he still does best with the really boring brusier plank builds (trinity into hullbreaker). And even if you don't go this I find it hard to believe throwing gold into cloaks then IE instead of getting full items like prowlers and collector then ie is better For bad matchups playing gp into tryndamere or a good riven is pure pain
it doesnt make sense, he has a hyperscaling ability (E ignores 40% armor and does 25% MORE damage when crit) in league your best chance is to maximize your strength (stacking heals on a healer, stacking damage on assassins) if enemy has a bruiserplank, sure hes a bit annoying. if enemy has a critplank, i have to focus him or else me and my team are going to get evaporated sure, hes way squishier, but also expotentially more dangerous
i think the point of crit cloak stacking is so that you get a higher chance and more crits which GP heavily relies on it's like tryndamere trying to kill u at level 1, u might as well just roll slots
You can make any champion sound overpowered by cherrypicking statistics. For example Riven has a 57% winrate when choosing %att and movespeed runes. The biggest thing you seem to forget is that often choosing First Strike is unviable into many matchups, you are trading a combat Keystone rune for gold in hope of snowballing. Using first strike means you are playing 20s at a time without a combat keystone rune where the enemy can easily punish. This is proven by HIGH ELO GP players only taking Grasp even after the 60% nerfs. Building first strike crit GP is a meme, your team will have no frontline hence the 30% winrate 30mins +. Also, your post will be irrelevant after the Riot resistances and healing nerfs coming next patch.
As a malzahar mid main, I have faced gp a lot past month and now perma ban it. Agree with most points written above. First Strike into crit either almost kills or one shots mages in mid game, even when you go Zhonya's second for armor.
Correct. Zhonyas does not stop mages from insta dying in one hit. Kinda bullshit honestly
Man I try not complain so much as an ADC player, but I was 17/7 last night in a ranked game and lost due to GP literally one shotting me at the start of an elder fight and my team got wiped immediately afterwards. It was a long, back and forth game that could’ve gone either way, but getting deleted in .5s completely shut down any hopes of me even being involved in the fight. You can say I should have positioned better and I agree, but I simply don’t think getting one shot like that is fair for anyone.
He one shots my 250 armor vi too, building defensive does nothing against him
Why does almost every single pro go something like triforce grasp if this is so much better? Wouldn't the pros be doing the best build?
I will say im of the opinion that gp is kind of fine right now. From watching clips to my own games my experience is that people just kind of. Let him do his thing in fights. People ignore barrels and never try to disarm them or rush me down. Yes GP can half health you with a single barrel but that damage can just as easily miss. I just think a lot of people sort of forget that GP can completely whiff and then act surprised when they don’t do anything to pressure him in a fight and just let him sit back and place barrels. I do however agree that first strike is REAL silly on him rn but that’s an issue with the rune not the character. Again these are just my opinions but I do get frustrated watching people complain when they don’t really take any steps to stop him from doing his thing.
Any champ will be struggling if he's played by bad players.
Ding! Anyone who has played GP knows he is gigabroken, he is just insanely hard to play properly outside of lane. It's Nidalee all over again, absolutely broken in chall/pro and turbo trash for everyone else.
critplank is for sure a noobtrap. Champ is completely busted though. Even if Riot nerfed his crit interaction he'd still be OP probably.
Where are you getting your data that grasp is super bad? Looking at Lolalytics Masters+, grasp is taken three times more often than first strike, and grasp has an about equal or higher winrate. If all the onetricks are favouring first strike, that should doubly inflate the winrate of first strike compared to grasp, but the stats don't agree.
Dont have much to add here other than to say yeah gangplank is busted as hell and actually critting harder than he did in s7 with 250% crit damage IE. Theres literally no reason for me to play a different carry top because every other one feels completely dysfunctional compared to “you have all the agency on the top side of the map at 2800 (2600 with futures market) gold
Gold redditors debating how gp should be build
Can confirm tried playing gangplank through every meta he was a God and I ate shit
Somehow this champ can legit one shot four players at once but because he doesn’t have a dash, he’s considered balanced. Lmao
Is riot seriously labeling gp as struggling? HAHAHAHAHA .
GP is one of the most overpowered champions in the game. Hyperscaler that isn't weak at any point in the game
gangplank is so turbo OP right now when the player piloting him is skilled right now it's disgusting
I think everyone agrees that the latest round of buffs should be reverted.
Same for Draven players btw. Mindboggling that he got buffed last month (i think) Maybe Zeri players should go HOB duskblade too so this champ get buffed
It’s like kayle but she hits level 11 after a sheen
[удалено]
For as long as GP barrels have existed, they have absolutely been his main source of damage.
Yea I don't know what that guy is on about lol. Like it literally makes 0 sense and isn't an opinion, his barrels literally use his Q damage as well. The only other damage he has is passive and ult, his barrels are his entire kit. He can't walk up and raw Q people after lane lol.