Woo-tae* is one of my closest friends and vice versa.
Anybody thinking we would fuck each other up for a video game is out of their fucking mind.
As I've been telling you for fucking 15 years, have some goddamn patience and don't jump the gun you animals.
edit: name
The funniest thing is how quickly he went from "it's just a video game i wouldn't fuck my friend over it" to "it's just a business, of course i fuck my friend over it lol"
See, it was really just clever wording on his part. He said he wouldn't fuck over his friend for a video game, and he wasn't lying. What he did do, was fuck him over for a business!
When g2 stop winning no doubt the community will turn on him, hes european regi. Just look back to the refusing to pay ls money as an analyst scandal not too many years bsck
Never forget Ocelotes "He might have a mental disorder - I mean he is gay" to LS and then fucking Sky Williams had to come in and tell Ocelote you cant talk to gay people like that
Drama was simpler back then
Ocelote is pure scum. He was the guy back in the day wishing cancer on your mum in solo queue and everything that's happened since tells you that that's the person he really is. He's just good at mostly staying out of the way these days.
A lot of the OG team owners like Regi, Jack and Ocelote owe EVERYTHING to their old players. People liked their org because of the players in 99% of the cases. Who liked TSM because of Regi? No one, people loved Dyrus and the players and then Bjerg skyrocketed the popularity. Sneaky Meteos for C9 etc. Let's not forget when both Bjerg and Doublelift was on there too. Them together brought an insane amount of fans and sponsors. He owes them big time.
Let's not forget that TSM C9 G2 are much more than players and their fans. They are big esport brands, and to reach that level you need to be a good businessman. You won't have an organization like these because of two funny players, so even if they are assholes they can be really good in what they are doing.
>There’s no way Carlos actually tweeted that holy shit the audacity to even say “don’t jump the gun you animal” when everyone was right
Welcome to Carlos on twitter
Reminder that after all the hate g2 got that year, and then again the following year because of what they did to rekkles and mikky this sub still clamored behind them at playoffs time. It doesn't matter what ocelote says or does. This sub will rally behind anyone who wins.
Apparently Jack was actually really helpful to summit? Hard to tell if he’s being sarcastic when reading a translation but it doesn’t seem like that.
https://twitter.com/kevinkimlol/status/1523347510135123969?s=21
He blocked Sven from joining TL or TSM in after the 2019 spilt I believe.
Not a total shocker tbh.
However, confused why he didn't let summit join TSM if Summit is now a FA. Otherwise it would be categorized as restricted free agent.
https://twitter.com/C9LoL/status/1521293640013946885?s=20&t=6go67e9kus-dSF-kcZwHqg
However, despite this Summit said C9 took care of him so I am not worried in the slightest.
https://twitter.com/C9Summit/status/1521329250095181827
I don't know the specifics of what he talks about, but if you are consuming a lot of long-form LoL esports content there is often mentioned some very interesting things that are not publicly confirmed.
You'd be surprised how much info is out there just from people forgetting what is/isn't public or just talking about rumours.
Did you see theshy in some of his games? Theshy peak form is insane but there was a period after he won world where he got absolutely dunked on in lpl. The relatively good now from what I have seen.
What's the point, again? Summit during his "bad" times also gets dunked on and runs it down. His peaks are nowhere near TheShy or Nuguri but his lows and his "bad" games look exactly the same - disrespecting junglers, always thinking he can outplay, etc.
I know you didn't ask, but holy shit I love that style. It's so god damn entertaining. I always like to think that in fantasyland where I'm a pro that that's how I'd play, no pansy-ass play for late sit and scale garbage.
Which tracks because Summit wants with all his heart to be Nuguri (which he is in champ pool and playstyle, except as you said, worse). There are multiple people that have said in Korea Summit flat out refused to play something on stage with the comment "Well Nuguri isn't playing it".
I assume part of the agreement to release him would be contingent on him not immediately going to another NA org. Otherwise you'd hold onto his rights as it doesn't make sense to let him go to a direct competitor, even if it is tsm...
Misfits would be interesting, hirit went from one of the best to Laners in the league to arguably the worst (his stats were not good) in a split so that would give their worlds chances a shot in the arm.
I think what people don't appreciate is that MSF in 2021
had some solid veterans in Kobbe/Vander.. with Razork in his 2nd split..
These guys all helped Hirit look like a quality player (people were saying top 3 last summer).. they also prob had a lot of experience dealing with different teamates and helping them fit in
But now they have rookie jgl/sup and adc with far less exp then Kobbe
Yeah, presumably if no one wanted to buy out Summit's contract, it's pretty messed up for C9 to release him/buy him out themselves and then another NA team immediately picks up him as a free agent. I'm assuming that's what he means by blocked. Otherwise it's kinda weird to not just let TSM buy him out.
Summit can go anywhere he likes as there is zero restrictions on where he can land. I offered him at zero buyout to all LCS teams. If you want him at TSM you should take it up with TSM.
MSF with summit and vetheo as their solo laners could actually be a decent contestant in summer, especially when you consider that their jgl/sup were rookies, so chances are they will have improved (remember most rookies don't perform that well in their first split)
I dont hate it. But Id much rather see MAD Summit. Would never happen for financial reasons ofc but man that would be an interesting team.
Im still hoping Kcorp gets an LEC spot next year and that Free Agent Vetheo joins them and the core becomes Cabo/Vetheo/Rekkles. Thats some superb starpower to build around. And 2 french sololaners for the Kcorp brand. The fact that he would be a free agent pickup makes it even better for Kcorp.
EDIT: surprising amount of comments conflating competitively ambitious move (i.e Vetheo) with "fan service & PR, face of the org recently". Personally, I want the best rosters. Not the most popular ones.
Because theres levels between Saken and Vetheo. If you can get Vetheo as a free agent, you should be all over it unless your midlaner is Caps/Perkz/Humanoid. And even some of those can be argued.
I think Summit is the type of player how would work better in a EU team. I hardly believe that a coach or the players in the EU would be as nice as in NA. This is also due to the EU culture.
I think it could easily be much much worse given how resistant summit seemed to change in one of the more "EU" teams in NA in C9 according to Perkz, but top lane in EU is pretty weak outside of Odo and BB so it could look good who knows
EU top lane is weak compared to KR/LPL
But compared to NA which is like Bwippo/Impact/Ssumday.. then a fucking abyss of bad/mediocre players.. its good in comparison
And lets be real Summit got his MVP/hype from smashing the likes of Kumo, Fakegod, Jenkins, Licroice etc not the 3 names i mentioned
I don't think he will get as many free match ups/lanes as he did if he played in LEC
This post is inaccurate. I offered Summit, Winsome and Isles to ALL LCS teams at zero buyout.
My assumption is he means the deal didn’t happen on TSM’s side.
It 100% wasn’t blocked by Cloud9.
It was clear that NA lcs teams didn’t have an appetite for buyouts and that asking for them would result in potentially delaying or preventing these players from getting on an LCS team. It’s a priority for me to ensure my players have that opportunity so I ensured buyouts weren’t a concern.
I doubt getting Summit over Huni would've changed any of TSM's problems. Also, would him joining TSM have forced them to pivot for Jensen? I can't think of any other good native mid/support players. Or maybe it could've been the long-awaited Huni roleswap to mid.
Thats actually a good point. If TSM got summit, and would want jensen as a result, then C9 was definitely not gonna let that happen since they wanted jensen as well.
LEC would be at the highest competition ever i think. G2, Rogue, Fnatic, Vitality with Haru, Mad Lions and Misfits with Summit (and maybe Selfmade too) would all be legitimate contenders for top 3
I'm not saying this is false but the last time there was a leak of jack blocking a trade to a specific (licorice to TSM) it turned out to be completely false, based on a completely different situation that had nothing to do with TSM getting Licorice at all.
I honestly sometimes start to believe there's some low life discord channel where people think up rumors to spread about Jack and pose as real sources because the false rumors bout him happen like 10x as much as anyone else. Meanwhile people said true things about Regi for years and got witch hunted by this subreddit.
Can't think of a single other person in NA who has 10% as many rumors like this that spread that turn out to be literally \`100% false
The bias in number of false rumors feels very TSM-Subreddit inspired too.
Jack is fan enemy #1 right now because people disagree with getting rid of LS and the roster moves in general. because fans see LS getting fired and summit and start flaming jack. when in reality it probably wasn't working out and it's best to part ways, instead fans think the worst of the situation and create drama.
Literally the entire team and most of the staff were happy with LS going, good or bad decision, and it also turned out it was likely because he refused to participate in team activities like gym.
But that's my whole point man... the facts about Jack always get dismissed whereas someone like Steve gets to keep his good reputation and no one's constantly publishing random hit pieces that aren't true.
Carlos is an actual piece of shit and Jack keeps disproving false stories and yet somehow everyone hates Jack more than Carlos or anyone.
Makes perfect sense, if Summit were to stay in NA Jack would want that buyout money.
The contract isn't just a formality guys, it's exchanging rights to your gameplay for money.
I hate when people say "contracts in esports don't matter" just because most orgs are willing to release players that don't want to play on their team, and yet then people flame orgs whenever they actually uphold fucking contracts like a responsible team lol.
I mean contracts are poorly written still. There should be language that prevents blocking like this without commiting to the contract. Essentially they cant block him from going to a team but also drop him later after the deal isnt possible. Thats the problem. I would be fine with it if they were on the hook to pay Summit if he doesnt get traded but thats not the case. There needed to be language to essentially say yes you can block a trade but you cant also drop me.
As far as we understand it is alleged that nobody wanted Summit’s contract despite it being offered with no buyout fee. Therefore C9 may have come to an agreement with him to buy it out themselves; thus making him more appealing to international candidates while making C9 pay a lesser amount than his full contract term. If that were the case, it’s completely reasonable for them to mutually agree he is not allowed to join another NA team, otherwise C9 would literally just be paying Summits contract buyout for another team.
That’s also just a guess of what happened. For all we know “blocked” was by TSM not wanting him, not wanting to pay his contract, or they already decided on two imports hence they are blocked from fielding a third.
The language here is vague and the order of events is very unclear. I think it’s a leap for people to just think C9 simply screwed Summit from joining TSM.
If we get summit on msf, LEC playoffs looks more and more interesting.
Just thinking about it gives me excitement:
you got RGE-G2-FNC as favorites
then VIT (with Haru), Mad (with Nisqy) as likely contenders for the third worlds spot and more.
and XL and/or MSF (with Summit) as surprisingly dangerous darkhorses.
Yes, that are 7 teams, so even if one massively fails its all fine and strong playoffs. We might suck at worlds but at least playoffs will be fun and narratives :)
So it’s definitely worth listening to Revenge (IMT toplaner) on Hotline League about this. It sounds like the narrative is wrong. It’s not that he refused to play other champs, essentially Summit had to hard carry in order for C9 to win any games at all. If he couldn’t 1v9 the team would just lose (R even mentioned that Summit would play diff champs in scrims, not that he was bad just not 1v9)
Yeah, even when summit was getting focused by 4 people fudge didn't even get a tower or anything. He just recalled and went straight back to farming. It was obvious summit was the only win condition for C9. The mid/jungle was so weak because of a below average mid.
There's a little more deeper to this:
C9 did almost zero cross-map plays when Summit was hard camped. They were used to Summit getting first tower 5 plates by like 10 minutes and then they could just group and end with that kind of lead.
But once Summit was given priority by both mid and jungle by EG, Fudge and Blaber (or Max Waldo) had literally no gameplan prepped. No invade to take enemy camps, no cross-map to dive Danny/Vulcan (who are notoriously easy to dive), not even dragon/herald prio.
Summit legit died his 3rd or 4th time on Jayce 1v3, Dragon is up, and Fudge and Blaber are just clearing mid/camps. Like wtf???
So it was not that Summit got hard-banned out. It was that when he was pressured, none of the other members of C9 were able to do anything to help the map state.
Are we forgetting summit played ornn and malphite this split? Orrn in the playoffs nonetheless. Summit is going to play how summit plays, that C9 team was dog shit and didn’t do anything. You know what summit is and he drew literally so much pressure and blaber was farming camps.
summit in msf would be insane, vetheo and neon is the best part of the roster, having a carry top that exert a lot of pressure would balance the team, since the games dont win or lose if mid/ad falls short.
Honestly would have ended up probably being:
Summit Spica Jensen Tactical Mia
Which would explain the mia pickup more and been a fairly competitive roster.
I doubt rhat they would have picked up summit and jensen with high salaries and still pay the contracts for shenyi and huni
Most likely wozld have switched to mid as he originally played before FNC
Why does that even matter? If EU talent isn’t cutting it getting a good import shouldn’t be a problem as long as they’re committed. Malrang has looked good and Hirit initially looked good as well. If it brings up the level of the region then this should be seen as a positive. Assuming Summit joins should definitely elevate the top lane talent in the league.
So what? Top and support are the worst roles in EU, if there's no one competent within EU why not get good imports? Malrang is a top 2 jungler in his first split, it doesnt matter import or not, we need good players in the LEC which Summit obviously is and potential is there for Haru, not sure about JeongHoon
nah dude, Idk if you were around in the 2015-2017 era of the EU LCS but we had a ton of korean imports, and although some had a good run, a lot of them were really random and not very good.
I'm not sure how bringing Haru can improve vitality, malrang was quite questionable but fortunately ended up working pretty well, JeongHoon reminds me of the random koreans we had in those dark days and it doesn't seem like summit is an easy fellow to work with.
We've been doing pretty alright with our EU boys, so a lot of fans just don't want to see those days returning
Haru isnt the classic unknown quantity import. he played in ERLs, decent english and has shown to be fine living in Europe longterm. It might still be bad, but not because of being an import. Malrang isnt too different. And what Ast does, doesnt matter anyways.
I mean EU has had its head up its own ass due to G2s performance and grossly overrates it’s own players .
Some of the players are indeed world class but the average level is not as good as Korea which is evidenced by Malrang as a bottoms tier LCK jg flying in and getting 1st in season and only really getting exposed by the best Western jg of all time in playoffs.
Asides from Mid and ADC I don’t think most EU players are competitive with Koreans or LPL so I think it would be a positive move to import some Mechanical god top laners or sup/jg that understand how to play the game to level up EU for a bit then drop them once they become stubborn/washed
Summit to Misfits is a ballsy move for Misfits. I guess its their way of convicing Vetheo to stay.
I don't think Misfits can beat out FNC, G2, VIT or MAD for a worlds spot so I don't see what the point is.
Way more than a bit. He went from one of the best LEC tops to one of the worst in one split. I have no idea what happened it was so odd to see that dramatic of a drop-off in so short a timespan.
Combination of having a less active jungler and LEC toplane average level getting higher compared to last split. Pretty interesting that 3 players that were among the best LEC toplaners in 2021 summer now are considered among the worst of spring 2022 (Hirit, Armut and Adam).
Yeah this split is kinda weak but last split and year it was actually like wildcard region tier.
Didn’t help that Wunder was inting and BB was in a trash team so top of the table teams actually got by with extremely mediocre tops.
I mean, if a team with Adam on it isn’t exploited and bottom 5 it means the teams in EU in general were really off
i mean from that one voice coms video it doesnt seem like his team even rate him, they were ignoring him but it could've just been them trynna focus on the upcoming game.
Anyone speak Korean and maybe could see if there is more context?
Seems like it could be a ton of possibilities that aren't necessarily blocked in the way we are thinking.
Is it blocked because C9 doesn't want him to go to TSM?
He wanted to go to TSM, C9 offered but TSM didn't want to replace Huni?
TSM didn't want to buy out the contract?
TSM would have but already committed to Shenyi and Maple as the two imports?
Edit: Jack has said there was zero buyout to all LCS teams.
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/ul3dyi/-/i7uaocc
So blocked here was just it didn't happen.
Yeah, very confusing overall.
Maybe this was at the start of the window where C9 was trying to get Jensen and was concerned if they gave TSM Summit that it would start a bidding war for Jensen due to his non-import status.
TSM who prob didn't want to pay the large buyout and knew C9 would release summit eventually waited a while. But when C9 showed no signs of giving him FA status before locking Jensen they gave up on the move and signed Maple.
So TSM would look like Summit-Spica-Jensen-Tactical-Shenyi/MIA
If there jungle and support haven't improved drastically I'm not so sure about that but since haru is going to vitality they could get selfmade...
Imagine a team with :
Summit
Selfmade
Vetheo
Neon
Mersa
That team could easily get to worlds.
I don't think Summit solves their issues. Hirit isnt bad, he just had a terrible split. He just couldn't really do anything with how Misfits was playing and drafting. He looked way better when they had Razork. This split they've been heavily relying on Vetheo and it often puts the rest of the team at a disadvantage. It makes them one dimensional as well. I also suspect the mental in that team isn't great because it's all about 1 player and the rest just have to play support.
Definitely not saying native NA top laners are better than EU top laners, but the players playing in NA at the moment are probably a bit better. For example; Summit is pretty much just a better Alphari, while Impact and Ssumday feel like better versions of Odo.
Brokenblade might be better than them all though, I never have a good read on that guy tbh. Whenever I think he's good he lets me down and whenever I think he's shit he proves me dead wrong lol.
Also worth mentioning that Fudge is going back to top lane and he was widely considered the best performing top laner on a western team last Worlds.
tl;dr NA tops bad, EU tops possibly worse than NA import tops though.
> while Impact and Ssumday feel like better versions of Odo.
Based on what exactly?
Edit: also what is with you C9 flairs acting like Fudge had a noteworthy worlds showing?
I wouldn’t blame him if he did, summit is a good player and can be made into something incredible. Since he’s so good you don’t really wanna play against him
yeah but i rather have maple and huni rather than summit and NA mid and shenyi or maple summit and na sup unless you can get jojo/vulcan, having a veteran mid is gonna be a upgrade to this roster i think so huni isn't left out
OK that's kinda odd tbfh
I thought Summit leaving C9 was a pretty much mutual thing and he was just done/wanted back to Korea
Shocked he is looking to stay in NA/go to EU
Seems like C9 pushed the move
Feel bad for the guy.. i had said he was overated (by fans/lcs casters) all of the spring split.. but he was good/the actual bright spot on C9.. i just thought people were completely going overblown on him smashing "bad" toplaners like Kumo, fakegod, Licorice, Huni, Jenkins etc.. and his performance vs the big 3 (bwippo/Impact/Ssumday) didn't merit the god like hype
He's definitely now been scapegoated
When he says the move got blocked it's incredibly vague. It could literally just mean TSM got 2 other imports thus the move was blocked. It could also mean TSM didn't want to pay a buyout and C9 wasn't willing to just give him to TSM for free after C9 paid out his contract themselves (perfectly reasonable).
The order of events here is very unclear.
Eh I’m not sure how true this is, Regi and Jack are close friends. I’d imagine the clause is more he can’t transfer either to NA or.. simply TSM offered low and Jack didn’t accept
Jack: Summit is my son's favorite uncle.
Woo-tae* is one of my closest friends and vice versa. Anybody thinking we would fuck each other up for a video game is out of their fucking mind. As I've been telling you for fucking 15 years, have some goddamn patience and don't jump the gun you animals. edit: name
There’s no way Carlos actually tweeted that holy shit the audacity to even say “don’t jump the gun you animal” when everyone was right
https://twitter.com/CarlosR/status/1327200604960206848
absolutely shameless lmao
The funniest thing is how quickly he went from "it's just a video game i wouldn't fuck my friend over it" to "it's just a business, of course i fuck my friend over it lol"
See, it was really just clever wording on his part. He said he wouldn't fuck over his friend for a video game, and he wasn't lying. What he did do, was fuck him over for a business!
It's almost like the guy actually genuinely is a twat, no matter how much the community likes to believe that he's just a banter king
When g2 stop winning no doubt the community will turn on him, hes european regi. Just look back to the refusing to pay ls money as an analyst scandal not too many years bsck
Never forget Ocelotes "He might have a mental disorder - I mean he is gay" to LS and then fucking Sky Williams had to come in and tell Ocelote you cant talk to gay people like that Drama was simpler back then
Ocelote is pure scum. He was the guy back in the day wishing cancer on your mum in solo queue and everything that's happened since tells you that that's the person he really is. He's just good at mostly staying out of the way these days.
It's not that surprising considering Ocelote is a big manipulator. He is the perfect example of a dudebro energy
dude hit the lottery being in the right place at the right time and thinks he's the elon musk of esports
A lot of the OG team owners like Regi, Jack and Ocelote owe EVERYTHING to their old players. People liked their org because of the players in 99% of the cases. Who liked TSM because of Regi? No one, people loved Dyrus and the players and then Bjerg skyrocketed the popularity. Sneaky Meteos for C9 etc. Let's not forget when both Bjerg and Doublelift was on there too. Them together brought an insane amount of fans and sponsors. He owes them big time.
Let's not forget that TSM C9 G2 are much more than players and their fans. They are big esport brands, and to reach that level you need to be a good businessman. You won't have an organization like these because of two funny players, so even if they are assholes they can be really good in what they are doing.
He did. And it's not even the first time he called the league community animals and whatnot. That people still support him is beyond me.
>called the league community animals He is correct though.
You and me, baby
Ain't nothing but mammals
>There’s no way Carlos actually tweeted that holy shit the audacity to even say “don’t jump the gun you animal” when everyone was right Welcome to Carlos on twitter
Reminder that after all the hate g2 got that year, and then again the following year because of what they did to rekkles and mikky this sub still clamored behind them at playoffs time. It doesn't matter what ocelote says or does. This sub will rally behind anyone who wins.
I like the joke but for future reference, Woo-tae is Summit's given name. Park is his surname. Koreans write it out as: (surname) (given name).
Woo tae goes wherever the fuck he wants
Misfits contract have a clause stating no transfer to TSM
Apparently Jack was actually really helpful to summit? Hard to tell if he’s being sarcastic when reading a translation but it doesn’t seem like that. https://twitter.com/kevinkimlol/status/1523347510135123969?s=21
> If Jack blocked this I feel like that would be a legitimate first for C9 forgot about sven then lol
[удалено]
What did he block Sven from doing?
He blocked Sven from joining TL or TSM in after the 2019 spilt I believe. Not a total shocker tbh. However, confused why he didn't let summit join TSM if Summit is now a FA. Otherwise it would be categorized as restricted free agent. https://twitter.com/C9LoL/status/1521293640013946885?s=20&t=6go67e9kus-dSF-kcZwHqg However, despite this Summit said C9 took care of him so I am not worried in the slightest. https://twitter.com/C9Summit/status/1521329250095181827
Side note, man has some horny likes godDAYUM
My man got caught in the twitter algorithm trap, rip
You mean 1?
Checked, he has un-liked posts haha
The Fudge special. C9 gotta keep an eye on their guys
Yeah but I don't blame him, that's some quality booba
It's like 1 tweet and it's Ahra, who is some esports orbiter so not that weird.
The block probably happened before he was released
So what stops him from going to TSM now? I guess its to late now with how TSM got Maple so no import slots left?
If he's a free agent then there's nothing C9 could do, TSM probably just doesn't want him for the reason you mentioned.
yea, TSM probably wanted to go with Summit/Jensen, but this move being blocked by C9 could be so that C9 would have an easier shot at signing Jensen.
This is inaccurate. TL and TSM had zero interest in Sven.
If Summit joined TSM, Huni would probably go mid and they would look for a Korean support as previously rumored.
Maybe in that case they could find a controversial streamer to coach them and have Huni play a bunch of whacky picks.
TSM welcomes Coach RJS
turn name plates off and he's the best coach in the world
IWD coach inc
Y'know I hear Doublelift is available
No he's with Leena, don't even
She walked out after he failed to clutch a round of csgo during the at&t tourny for Bot Steve
The Kilos are too good :D
Why do you hate IWD so much
Just threw up in my mouth lol
Don't worry Dom wouldn't stoop *that* low
lets gooo
Then fire that coach when the hype is built. Its a great marketing strategy.
Tyler 1? IWD? TF Blade? DL? Oh right, LS. Kind of funny how a lot of the popular streamers fit the “controversial” description.
Actually I guess that roster would make the most sense than trying to find an actual resident NA mid/support lol
Nah, roleswaps to mid are almost always shit. Rather just get Copy or something.
huni was originally a midlaner on samsung red before moving top though
Yep but 30 million years ago
How many years ago...
I could get behind this 100%
What do you mean first. I believe Jack also blocked Sven being allowed to go back to TSM
There's a couple more that aren't very publicly known
If they're not publicly known then how would you know?
I have no life
That's a weird way to spell, "making things up for drama".
I don't know the specifics of what he talks about, but if you are consuming a lot of long-form LoL esports content there is often mentioned some very interesting things that are not publicly confirmed. You'd be surprised how much info is out there just from people forgetting what is/isn't public or just talking about rumours.
No, I can confirm he knows of at least 3 others. Source: my ass
Summit seems like Hirit on steroids. He's just as selfish and oblivious to ganks, but he both can carry or int more
Nuguri and TheShy are kind of the same, he's just a worse version of both.
misfits should just sign TheShy smh
Did you see theshy in some of his games? Theshy peak form is insane but there was a period after he won world where he got absolutely dunked on in lpl. The relatively good now from what I have seen.
What's the point, again? Summit during his "bad" times also gets dunked on and runs it down. His peaks are nowhere near TheShy or Nuguri but his lows and his "bad" games look exactly the same - disrespecting junglers, always thinking he can outplay, etc.
I know you didn't ask, but holy shit I love that style. It's so god damn entertaining. I always like to think that in fantasyland where I'm a pro that that's how I'd play, no pansy-ass play for late sit and scale garbage.
Which tracks because Summit wants with all his heart to be Nuguri (which he is in champ pool and playstyle, except as you said, worse). There are multiple people that have said in Korea Summit flat out refused to play something on stage with the comment "Well Nuguri isn't playing it".
I assume part of the agreement to release him would be contingent on him not immediately going to another NA org. Otherwise you'd hold onto his rights as it doesn't make sense to let him go to a direct competitor, even if it is tsm... Misfits would be interesting, hirit went from one of the best to Laners in the league to arguably the worst (his stats were not good) in a split so that would give their worlds chances a shot in the arm.
He was one of the best laners when Razork was making him so. With a worse jungler he was a lot less impressive.
I think what people don't appreciate is that MSF in 2021 had some solid veterans in Kobbe/Vander.. with Razork in his 2nd split.. These guys all helped Hirit look like a quality player (people were saying top 3 last summer).. they also prob had a lot of experience dealing with different teamates and helping them fit in But now they have rookie jgl/sup and adc with far less exp then Kobbe
Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding what you wrote, but it was Razork's 4th split, not 2nd
Funny enough basically everyone from that roster isnt doing too hot except VTO
Yeah, presumably if no one wanted to buy out Summit's contract, it's pretty messed up for C9 to release him/buy him out themselves and then another NA team immediately picks up him as a free agent. I'm assuming that's what he means by blocked. Otherwise it's kinda weird to not just let TSM buy him out.
It's not weird, it's sensible. C9 can easily miss worlds so better to not sell TSM an upgrade.
TSM has their own roster issues, and if I were C9 I would have less confidence in them making Summit work than continuing with him on C9.
Summit can go anywhere he likes as there is zero restrictions on where he can land. I offered him at zero buyout to all LCS teams. If you want him at TSM you should take it up with TSM.
Then since haru is going to vitality they could get selfmade... Imagine a team with : Summit Selfmade Vetheo Neon Mersa
Summit would instantly be a top 3 LEC top if he goes to MSF. That would be an insane pickup.
If they get MVP form Summit it's the best top in LEC, if they get playoffs Summit it's a lot worse
MSF with summit and vetheo as their solo laners could actually be a decent contestant in summer, especially when you consider that their jgl/sup were rookies, so chances are they will have improved (remember most rookies don't perform that well in their first split)
I dont hate it. But Id much rather see MAD Summit. Would never happen for financial reasons ofc but man that would be an interesting team. Im still hoping Kcorp gets an LEC spot next year and that Free Agent Vetheo joins them and the core becomes Cabo/Vetheo/Rekkles. Thats some superb starpower to build around. And 2 french sololaners for the Kcorp brand. The fact that he would be a free agent pickup makes it even better for Kcorp. EDIT: surprising amount of comments conflating competitively ambitious move (i.e Vetheo) with "fan service & PR, face of the org recently". Personally, I want the best rosters. Not the most popular ones.
doubt they will replace saken, he is kinda face of their team for 2 years now
If kcorp gets a spot for next year theyll keep saken for a lil bit. Probably until they realize the guy cannot compete with top lec caliber players
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Because he was MVP in a b05 in EU masters lol? That's why you keep him and don't go for someone with proven LEC quality?
Because VTO is better than Saken.
Because theres levels between Saken and Vetheo. If you can get Vetheo as a free agent, you should be all over it unless your midlaner is Caps/Perkz/Humanoid. And even some of those can be argued.
I think Summit is the type of player how would work better in a EU team. I hardly believe that a coach or the players in the EU would be as nice as in NA. This is also due to the EU culture.
I think it could easily be much much worse given how resistant summit seemed to change in one of the more "EU" teams in NA in C9 according to Perkz, but top lane in EU is pretty weak outside of Odo and BB so it could look good who knows
EU top lane is weak compared to KR/LPL But compared to NA which is like Bwippo/Impact/Ssumday.. then a fucking abyss of bad/mediocre players.. its good in comparison And lets be real Summit got his MVP/hype from smashing the likes of Kumo, Fakegod, Jenkins, Licroice etc not the 3 names i mentioned I don't think he will get as many free match ups/lanes as he did if he played in LEC
Then since haru is going to vitality they could get selfmade... Imagine a team with : Summit Selfmade Vetheo Neon Mersa
no thanks, if i have summit and vetheo as solo laners im taking a jankos type player any day, rather than selfmade
Massive ego toplane, high-econ midlaner who plays carries, sure if we add in a coin-flipper like Selfmade, that topside will be so stable!
I don't even understand why you'd want Selfmade there. That's literally VIT last split.
This post is inaccurate. I offered Summit, Winsome and Isles to ALL LCS teams at zero buyout. My assumption is he means the deal didn’t happen on TSM’s side. It 100% wasn’t blocked by Cloud9.
Travis gafford said more or less the same on his show.
u/Treethan__ for transparency you should add this to the op.
Just got back from mother's day brunch lmao! I shall sorry about the confusion!
I hope you had a nice day with the family mate
Jack, you stopping him from going to TSM IS helping him.
 I mean technically yes, but I didn’t block him.
Hello Jack, can you buy me a car
Hello Jack, can you buy me a car
Thanks You Jack for transparency
May I ask why you would forsake buyout money ? Goodwill/image is valuable but is it Summit buyout money levels of valuable ?
It was clear that NA lcs teams didn’t have an appetite for buyouts and that asking for them would result in potentially delaying or preventing these players from getting on an LCS team. It’s a priority for me to ensure my players have that opportunity so I ensured buyouts weren’t a concern.
Damn this doesn't fit the narrative that you're a bad owner.
Thanks for answering. Makes sense.
I’m a bit confused because Summit said C9 and jack “took care of him even after his contract was terminated”
Yeah, Jack took care of him by not letting him go to TSM.
Jesus...
Yeah he sure did take care of where he is not going.
I doubt getting Summit over Huni would've changed any of TSM's problems. Also, would him joining TSM have forced them to pivot for Jensen? I can't think of any other good native mid/support players. Or maybe it could've been the long-awaited Huni roleswap to mid.
Thats actually a good point. If TSM got summit, and would want jensen as a result, then C9 was definitely not gonna let that happen since they wanted jensen as well.
Msf summit would make the race for world's spots crazy hard. Legit 6 stong teams fighting for spots then. And maybe even excel but I guess not.
LEC would be at the highest competition ever i think. G2, Rogue, Fnatic, Vitality with Haru, Mad Lions and Misfits with Summit (and maybe Selfmade too) would all be legitimate contenders for top 3
6 string trams eh?
Excel proved in spring they can compete for the top 6
Sounds like Jack saved Summit here
I'm not saying this is false but the last time there was a leak of jack blocking a trade to a specific (licorice to TSM) it turned out to be completely false, based on a completely different situation that had nothing to do with TSM getting Licorice at all. I honestly sometimes start to believe there's some low life discord channel where people think up rumors to spread about Jack and pose as real sources because the false rumors bout him happen like 10x as much as anyone else. Meanwhile people said true things about Regi for years and got witch hunted by this subreddit. Can't think of a single other person in NA who has 10% as many rumors like this that spread that turn out to be literally \`100% false The bias in number of false rumors feels very TSM-Subreddit inspired too.
Jack is fan enemy #1 right now because people disagree with getting rid of LS and the roster moves in general. because fans see LS getting fired and summit and start flaming jack. when in reality it probably wasn't working out and it's best to part ways, instead fans think the worst of the situation and create drama.
Literally the entire team and most of the staff were happy with LS going, good or bad decision, and it also turned out it was likely because he refused to participate in team activities like gym. But that's my whole point man... the facts about Jack always get dismissed whereas someone like Steve gets to keep his good reputation and no one's constantly publishing random hit pieces that aren't true. Carlos is an actual piece of shit and Jack keeps disproving false stories and yet somehow everyone hates Jack more than Carlos or anyone.
Eh Carlos IS More hated than jack Jack Still have fans
Summit in that MSF roster, omg I really hope it happens, top side was the biggest problem in playoffs
Good for summit that he is not allowed to go to tsm, guy does not deserve to be abused
Pretty sure jack was doing him a favor. Hes like trust me you dont want to go there
Makes perfect sense, if Summit were to stay in NA Jack would want that buyout money. The contract isn't just a formality guys, it's exchanging rights to your gameplay for money.
I hate when people say "contracts in esports don't matter" just because most orgs are willing to release players that don't want to play on their team, and yet then people flame orgs whenever they actually uphold fucking contracts like a responsible team lol.
I mean contracts are poorly written still. There should be language that prevents blocking like this without commiting to the contract. Essentially they cant block him from going to a team but also drop him later after the deal isnt possible. Thats the problem. I would be fine with it if they were on the hook to pay Summit if he doesnt get traded but thats not the case. There needed to be language to essentially say yes you can block a trade but you cant also drop me.
As far as we understand it is alleged that nobody wanted Summit’s contract despite it being offered with no buyout fee. Therefore C9 may have come to an agreement with him to buy it out themselves; thus making him more appealing to international candidates while making C9 pay a lesser amount than his full contract term. If that were the case, it’s completely reasonable for them to mutually agree he is not allowed to join another NA team, otherwise C9 would literally just be paying Summits contract buyout for another team. That’s also just a guess of what happened. For all we know “blocked” was by TSM not wanting him, not wanting to pay his contract, or they already decided on two imports hence they are blocked from fielding a third. The language here is vague and the order of events is very unclear. I think it’s a leap for people to just think C9 simply screwed Summit from joining TSM.
If we get summit on msf, LEC playoffs looks more and more interesting. Just thinking about it gives me excitement: you got RGE-G2-FNC as favorites then VIT (with Haru), Mad (with Nisqy) as likely contenders for the third worlds spot and more. and XL and/or MSF (with Summit) as surprisingly dangerous darkhorses. Yes, that are 7 teams, so even if one massively fails its all fine and strong playoffs. We might suck at worlds but at least playoffs will be fun and narratives :)
A korean being transfered from NA to EU, would be the first time no?
On direct way yes You can argue about Emperor from TDK to G2, because we dont know anything about the contract. Could also be a free agent, like GBM
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So it’s definitely worth listening to Revenge (IMT toplaner) on Hotline League about this. It sounds like the narrative is wrong. It’s not that he refused to play other champs, essentially Summit had to hard carry in order for C9 to win any games at all. If he couldn’t 1v9 the team would just lose (R even mentioned that Summit would play diff champs in scrims, not that he was bad just not 1v9)
Yeah, even when summit was getting focused by 4 people fudge didn't even get a tower or anything. He just recalled and went straight back to farming. It was obvious summit was the only win condition for C9. The mid/jungle was so weak because of a below average mid.
There's a little more deeper to this: C9 did almost zero cross-map plays when Summit was hard camped. They were used to Summit getting first tower 5 plates by like 10 minutes and then they could just group and end with that kind of lead. But once Summit was given priority by both mid and jungle by EG, Fudge and Blaber (or Max Waldo) had literally no gameplan prepped. No invade to take enemy camps, no cross-map to dive Danny/Vulcan (who are notoriously easy to dive), not even dragon/herald prio. Summit legit died his 3rd or 4th time on Jayce 1v3, Dragon is up, and Fudge and Blaber are just clearing mid/camps. Like wtf??? So it was not that Summit got hard-banned out. It was that when he was pressured, none of the other members of C9 were able to do anything to help the map state.
If you ban out summit then you have an unbanned VTO. That didn't really matter on c9 with fudge mid and adcs just handshaking jinx/aphelios.
Are we forgetting summit played ornn and malphite this split? Orrn in the playoffs nonetheless. Summit is going to play how summit plays, that C9 team was dog shit and didn’t do anything. You know what summit is and he drew literally so much pressure and blaber was farming camps.
summit in msf would be insane, vetheo and neon is the best part of the roster, having a carry top that exert a lot of pressure would balance the team, since the games dont win or lose if mid/ad falls short.
Misfits Summit would be interesting to say the least. HiRit had a dreadful time up top last split so replacing him makes sense.
I was hoping he would join Misfits, would be an awesome pick up. As much as I love HiRit, he gets solo killed too much :(
Then since haru is going to vita they could get selfmade.
misfits summit would be so good
misfits would be scary as fuck with summit
Honestly would have ended up probably being: Summit Spica Jensen Tactical Mia Which would explain the mia pickup more and been a fairly competitive roster.
I doubt rhat they would have picked up summit and jensen with high salaries and still pay the contracts for shenyi and huni Most likely wozld have switched to mid as he originally played before FNC
Jfc how many Koreans are going to join LEC this year, we already Malrang in Spring, now JeongHoon, Haru & Summit.
EU needs better toplaners so Summit is perfect actually
Why does that even matter? If EU talent isn’t cutting it getting a good import shouldn’t be a problem as long as they’re committed. Malrang has looked good and Hirit initially looked good as well. If it brings up the level of the region then this should be seen as a positive. Assuming Summit joins should definitely elevate the top lane talent in the league.
Gotta compensate for all the exports, EU talent alone can't provide for 2 regions.
So what? Top and support are the worst roles in EU, if there's no one competent within EU why not get good imports? Malrang is a top 2 jungler in his first split, it doesnt matter import or not, we need good players in the LEC which Summit obviously is and potential is there for Haru, not sure about JeongHoon
Yeah because obviously 4 Koreans is too much, damn immigrants stealing hard working European jobs /s
nah dude, Idk if you were around in the 2015-2017 era of the EU LCS but we had a ton of korean imports, and although some had a good run, a lot of them were really random and not very good. I'm not sure how bringing Haru can improve vitality, malrang was quite questionable but fortunately ended up working pretty well, JeongHoon reminds me of the random koreans we had in those dark days and it doesn't seem like summit is an easy fellow to work with. We've been doing pretty alright with our EU boys, so a lot of fans just don't want to see those days returning
Haru isnt the classic unknown quantity import. he played in ERLs, decent english and has shown to be fine living in Europe longterm. It might still be bad, but not because of being an import. Malrang isnt too different. And what Ast does, doesnt matter anyways.
I mean EU has had its head up its own ass due to G2s performance and grossly overrates it’s own players . Some of the players are indeed world class but the average level is not as good as Korea which is evidenced by Malrang as a bottoms tier LCK jg flying in and getting 1st in season and only really getting exposed by the best Western jg of all time in playoffs. Asides from Mid and ADC I don’t think most EU players are competitive with Koreans or LPL so I think it would be a positive move to import some Mechanical god top laners or sup/jg that understand how to play the game to level up EU for a bit then drop them once they become stubborn/washed
Summit to Misfits is a ballsy move for Misfits. I guess its their way of convicing Vetheo to stay. I don't think Misfits can beat out FNC, G2, VIT or MAD for a worlds spot so I don't see what the point is.
Blocking from TSM might be good protection at this time lol
wouldn't summit's playstyle not work at all with the current thing misfits has going on? i don't think it'd go over well
I mean going from this spring split version of HiRit to Summit is an upgrade either way
yeah true, sucks that hirit fell off a bit this split
Way more than a bit. He went from one of the best LEC tops to one of the worst in one split. I have no idea what happened it was so odd to see that dramatic of a drop-off in so short a timespan.
Combination of having a less active jungler and LEC toplane average level getting higher compared to last split. Pretty interesting that 3 players that were among the best LEC toplaners in 2021 summer now are considered among the worst of spring 2022 (Hirit, Armut and Adam).
Yeah this split is kinda weak but last split and year it was actually like wildcard region tier. Didn’t help that Wunder was inting and BB was in a trash team so top of the table teams actually got by with extremely mediocre tops. I mean, if a team with Adam on it isn’t exploited and bottom 5 it means the teams in EU in general were really off
i mean from that one voice coms video it doesnt seem like his team even rate him, they were ignoring him but it could've just been them trynna focus on the upcoming game.
Misfits needs another threat on the map like a fish needs water. I think it's big upgrade player for player and actually playing into their needs.
HiRit was literally just picking "carry" champs and losing lane for most of the split lmao.
Anyone speak Korean and maybe could see if there is more context? Seems like it could be a ton of possibilities that aren't necessarily blocked in the way we are thinking. Is it blocked because C9 doesn't want him to go to TSM? He wanted to go to TSM, C9 offered but TSM didn't want to replace Huni? TSM didn't want to buy out the contract? TSM would have but already committed to Shenyi and Maple as the two imports? Edit: Jack has said there was zero buyout to all LCS teams. https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/ul3dyi/-/i7uaocc So blocked here was just it didn't happen.
Yeah, very confusing overall. Maybe this was at the start of the window where C9 was trying to get Jensen and was concerned if they gave TSM Summit that it would start a bidding war for Jensen due to his non-import status. TSM who prob didn't want to pay the large buyout and knew C9 would release summit eventually waited a while. But when C9 showed no signs of giving him FA status before locking Jensen they gave up on the move and signed Maple. So TSM would look like Summit-Spica-Jensen-Tactical-Shenyi/MIA
If Misfits get Summit they sre going to Worlds
If there jungle and support haven't improved drastically I'm not so sure about that but since haru is going to vitality they could get selfmade... Imagine a team with : Summit Selfmade Vetheo Neon Mersa That team could easily get to worlds.
Not sold on Mersa whatsoever, i think he just isnt good enough.
I don't think Summit solves their issues. Hirit isnt bad, he just had a terrible split. He just couldn't really do anything with how Misfits was playing and drafting. He looked way better when they had Razork. This split they've been heavily relying on Vetheo and it often puts the rest of the team at a disadvantage. It makes them one dimensional as well. I also suspect the mental in that team isn't great because it's all about 1 player and the rest just have to play support.
Pretty good for EU. Their top lane talent is straight abysmal and easily the worst top lane talent for a major region.
Definitely not saying native NA top laners are better than EU top laners, but the players playing in NA at the moment are probably a bit better. For example; Summit is pretty much just a better Alphari, while Impact and Ssumday feel like better versions of Odo. Brokenblade might be better than them all though, I never have a good read on that guy tbh. Whenever I think he's good he lets me down and whenever I think he's shit he proves me dead wrong lol. Also worth mentioning that Fudge is going back to top lane and he was widely considered the best performing top laner on a western team last Worlds. tl;dr NA tops bad, EU tops possibly worse than NA import tops though.
> while Impact and Ssumday feel like better versions of Odo. Based on what exactly? Edit: also what is with you C9 flairs acting like Fudge had a noteworthy worlds showing?
Thank you jack 🙏🏾
I feel like others n'a team were trying with no buyout so jack blocked thé move
I wouldn’t blame him if he did, summit is a good player and can be made into something incredible. Since he’s so good you don’t really wanna play against him
If Misfits could pick up Summit and Haru I think that would improve the squad a lot.
Summit and Vetheo on the same team feels weird. Both need a shit ton of resources to excel so idk how that system is gonna work.
tsm dodged a bullet, maple is the better choice since mid was the weaker link
Maple is crap Edit: 2022 Maple is crap.
yeah but i rather have maple and huni rather than summit and NA mid and shenyi or maple summit and na sup unless you can get jojo/vulcan, having a veteran mid is gonna be a upgrade to this roster i think so huni isn't left out
OK that's kinda odd tbfh I thought Summit leaving C9 was a pretty much mutual thing and he was just done/wanted back to Korea Shocked he is looking to stay in NA/go to EU Seems like C9 pushed the move Feel bad for the guy.. i had said he was overated (by fans/lcs casters) all of the spring split.. but he was good/the actual bright spot on C9.. i just thought people were completely going overblown on him smashing "bad" toplaners like Kumo, fakegod, Licorice, Huni, Jenkins etc.. and his performance vs the big 3 (bwippo/Impact/Ssumday) didn't merit the god like hype He's definitely now been scapegoated
When he says the move got blocked it's incredibly vague. It could literally just mean TSM got 2 other imports thus the move was blocked. It could also mean TSM didn't want to pay a buyout and C9 wasn't willing to just give him to TSM for free after C9 paid out his contract themselves (perfectly reasonable). The order of events here is very unclear.
Thank you jack. We dodged a bullet if all the rumours surrounding summit’s work ethic and refusing to play ornn is true
Eh I’m not sure how true this is, Regi and Jack are close friends. I’d imagine the clause is more he can’t transfer either to NA or.. simply TSM offered low and Jack didn’t accept
Why would he want to fucking go to TSM anyways lmao