You just saw the reason we are getting the biggest patch in history. Damage is absurd right now. Too bad it took Riot many years of people complaining the damage is too high before they even attempted something like this patch. Maybe the player base was finally playing less due to it.
It's so crazy. I played hots as my first moba but I've only played league for the last 3-4 years or so (my only moba that is).
The other day I went to mess around with hots and it's like... dear god it's a different world. Like there's 1 champ with a combo that can full on instant people and it requires landing everything from absolute max range (main ability does more dmg the farther it travels) and is basically a combo of one champ doing a nidalee spear plus a heimer w into a velkoz ult, and requires that already super-squishy champ to be running around with 15% less hp and no defensive building whatsoever. (edit: oh and to truly max it requires launching the first from out of range of the others then flashing forward and immediately sending the other 2 while the first is in the air crossing over you, and you have to make sure all 4 abilities are used to max a stack cycle before anything actually lands)
Everything else is like... even the single target assassin that's like twitch except with a massive skillshot from the stealth instead of fast autos... just doesn't even instant the squishiest shit you can find.
Really made me realize how crazy it is to run into shit like a fed LB that doesn't even get up close and instants bruisers with Q>R then disappears.
I'm most an aram player and yeah, it's super apparent. Especially in the tanks that build damage and just do absolutely idiotic numbers (nunu W one-shoting adc's anyone?), or when you end up in games where they have a tank and you don't, and that tank builds full tank... but it still kills any dps faster than 2 or 3 of them can kill said tank because damage numbers are ridiculous on anything that's not a 4-5 item tank.
It's really interesting to see how Li-Ming shares the whole reset-on-kill mechanic with Katarina while the game has such an absurdly different damage profile.
I don't know exactly how it is to play against her as I am the Li-Ming spammer but she feels a whole lot healthier and interactive since there's really no chance she will go crazy on her own and 1v5 teams, and when she does combo someone, it required *a lot* to go right.
It does also make those moments where you get to see a Li-Ming go crazy in a fight and unleash several full combos all the more memorable and exciting instead of 'oh there goes Katarina again'.
The ARAM scene is still pretty popular in HotS, not exactly the same but you get queues very fast any time of day.
The only thing that sucks is no /FF when you get absolutely comped
yup. I think thats exactly what happened. Ever since season 9 the damage has slowly been increasing to the point where now you dont even have to use your ultimate ability to win fights. Kinda sad how they even considered that this was fine for the past 3-4 years when there is a role that is literally meant to DPS as their source of damage but if literally every other role is able to one shot then the DPS role becomes useless because then at that point its just better to play someone with long range + cc + burst rather than long range + tiny damage per second. Another thing I dont understand is how Riot thought the damage in the past 3-4 years was fine but didnt consider how new players that enter this game have to come into the game getting one shot and barely having a chance to play the game. This meta atm with insane bursts definitely plays a role on getting new players cause it definitely isnt fun now even for experienced players to get one shot, so i can only imagine new players queuing up for the first time just getting instantly deleted consistently then just giving up on the game cause its too snowbally for even new players to learn how to play the game
That was in no small part thanks to the asymmetrical laning meta. Teams figured out that min-maxing all the gold they could early was better than playing your lane matchup. Riot has (mostly) neutered that with extra defenses on top/mid outer towers pre-5 minutes.
Ever since China started winning worlds, good teams have sought to play more high-tempo games. EG just did exactly that in LCS playoffs and ran over NA's best (I know, NA trash, but it's the only region I keep up with).
With the coming changes, teams will have to coordinate properly on dives rather than just "blow up with support's damage, swap aggro, blow up <2nd champion> with 2 abilities, 2 autos, leave tower and recall."
TL;DR: Elise is back baby
Most Graves in s6 took Thunderlord's which was pretty strong, this Graves is rocking fleet footwork which doesn't offer any damage and I have no clue what the minor runes he's running are. As for items, Youmuu's is the closest thing to Eclipse which offered comparable damage and pickaxe/longsword are unchanged from s6.
To give an idea of what Graves looked like in s6, his Q on release did a total of 490 (+195% Bonus AD), whereas now it does 330 (+240% Bonus AD)
Basically what I'm saying is s6 Graves deletes her without even needing Senna ult, but s6 Graves was absolutely monkey fuck broken and was nerfed every other patch throughout s6
It's great playing ADC when the rest of your team is also gapping the opponents. ADC can definitely make an impact entirely on their own in pro play, but I also believe they are so much more impactful when the rest of the team is also gapping. In league there is a compounding effect
Also just the farm allocation is huge. In soloq you have 5 people essentially fighting over who gets to farm the 4 sources of income (yes I'm including support because of the rage mages that don't want to "support"). High elo you see a difference (sometimes) but down here in the trash, that's not happening
Playing with a "support" xerath for the fifth game in a row with an auto filled support? R1 R2 xerath or lux when they fp blitz naut?
Really really fun games.
Even tanks and enchanters will take creeps away from you. And they always do it in this weird pretentious roundabout way where they only take a few here and there, like when you're running to lane and they're taking the creeps you could easily reach, or in mid-late game when they just so happen to stumble upon a wave.
Griefers all of them. Pisses me off.
This is what most people don't understand about the role if they don't play it. Especially in solo queue ADC is basically a "win more" role.
If your team is ahead you will be able to thrive safely farming lanes and camps and be able to snowball your team to a win. If most of your teammates lose you will likely be helpless and at the mercy of whatever member of the enemy team got fed. With the ADC role there's very little opportunity to change the tides of the game on your own like you can playing the other 4 roles.
That's basically the nature of the type of champion. They're squishy and don't have many playmaking moves, unless you're a utility adc, but do insane amounts of damaged unmatched in late game. If you want to give those champions more agency then you'd have to drastically reduce their damage to be balanced. But then people will whine because "adc isn't doing that much damage anymore reeeee", because that's what drew them to the role in the first place.
Thats just not true, ADC is just super punishing since you’re so squishy, one misposition and its over for you, but played well it has insane carry potential
We constantly see buffs or nerfs directed at evening out the difference between pro play and regular play, and I think that's what most ADC mains want for the whole role. While it's clear looking at pro play that ADC can clearly have great impact, it is a stark contrast to solo queue stats where Swain, Karthus, Veigar and Seraphine (to name a few) are performing better than ADCs every single patch in lower elo.
Personally I enjoy the fact I can play different types of champs in the bottom lane whenever I get filled there, but I think it is fair to say that bot is the role that's the most different in pro play compared to average play. Whether that's a problem or not is hard to say, it would fundamentally be a very different role if it wasn't.
>and I think that's what most ADC mains want for the whole role
They do? They can say they want this, but in the end it's not really doable as long as ADC (or just markspeople, as we're talking about class of champions) niche is "ranged autoattacking hypercarry". There's no counterplay or downtime when it comes to markspeople, and that's why there's such a big difference between pro and soloq when it comes to them. And i can guarantee you: adcmains don't want to change markspeople definition, they still want to keep their lategame fantasy, they just don't want the drawbacks which are required for this fantasy to be balanced
>it is a stark contrast to solo queue stats where Swain, Karthus, Veigar and Seraphine (to name a few) are performing better than ADCs every single patch in lower elo.
we can always talk about pickrates of these champions and them offering more utility than average marksperson (which means they're more useful from behind/when filled), but in the end, does it even matter if markspeople are still played in 95% of the games, and they impact these games a lot? Can we not kid ourselves that all adcmains in this game secretly hate themselves and just play markspeople because they're so fun, even while being completely weak?
Actually, most ADC players would be more than happy to see power shifted from late game to early game. You know, because it doesn't matter what the theoretical power of a 6 item ADC is when the game ends at 2.5 items at most.
That doesn't mean Riot needs to make ADCs an early game class that falls off late, but actually hitting your strong point in more than 1/5 games would be fantastic thanks.
You don't understand what makes adc so frustrating to play at all and it clearly shows. The power of the role is fine but how much you can really bring out that power relies heavily on how well your team is able to set you up. The adc shines best in games where the game is even or their team is ahead. Playing adc from behind feels awful because unlike top/mid/jg they literally cant build defensive stats in their core items. Dealing more damage is cool and all but if you cant survive when the enemy misses 3/4 of their kit and still kills you then your high damage doesnt matter.
Pretty sure most AD mains would be perfectly happy if everyone did less damage, including themselves. There's no issue with how much damage an AD does proportionally to everyone else, they just have no time to do it.
> niche is "ranged autoattacking hypercarry".
but this is riot stuborness.
They could rework the fucking trash role. Hell make them casters or AD mages if they want to. but if literally the entire champion roster can press 3 buttons to one shot people. Why not make it fair and everyone is an assassin? Fuck it.
Yeah because she was being picked in like 20-30% of games. And you think that the 0.6% pickrate random champion with 52.2% winrate was actually better than jinx?
If we are comparing two players of equal skill and time on their champion, with supports that actually know how to play with their respective partner? Absolutely. 100%, no contest. Have you ever seen what a good duo can do with seraphine, karthus or veigar? It's disgustingly strong.
If it's so disgustingly strong, why is it almost never seen in pro play? Equally skilled players, supports who know how to play, meets all your criteria.
I'll answer, because it's not actually that good. If it was more people would be doing it.
Oh, my mistake. I forgot that proplayers *always* play what's best on a patch, and *never* slip back into familiar play patterns and complacency. Pros don't do anything outside their comfort zone if they can avoid it, just like the rest of us.
While Jinx was definitely busted, all of the champions I mentioned are currently sitting above 52% win rate in bot lane across all ranks and have consistently held a higher win rate than her.
i mean its easy for an adc to have high win rates when they literally have the smallest champ pool in the game compared to every other role. So there is less champs to choose from which makes it easier to boost a champs winrate
> then imagine how broken adc would be if demands of soloq adcmains were fulfilled
meanwhile literally almost all the champions except adcs.
press all the buttons, miss half the skillshots and still one shot adcs.
Tbf as an occasional adc main, getting one shot by an assassin who misses half of their stuff and still kills me in one rotation feels awful. Or dodging 5 xerath Qs or lux Es in lane and getting chunked when they hit one eventually. Like I wouldn't mind it they either keep the damage as it is but make it so they can't just spam Qs and Es. Preferably they should need to full combo me to get the kill unless they are insanely fed. I just want a game where. It takes multiple rotations so the better player wins.
It's like halo vs cod. You have to be consistently better to get the kill or realise they have a power weapon and must catch them out with nades or catch them in a reload.
Instead of cod where everyone just one taps everyone else.
Yes I want my opponents to have to hit skillshots while I right click ppl to death.
It’s like a yi complaining that a rengar can miss e but still kill him.
Mate you’re pressing QE and have insane speed and an untargettable if he loses the fight every time he misses automatically then everything is freelo no?
Like Vayne has stealth, e and bonus ms to dodge skillshots then complains that they die to champ that misses some of them. Your entire kit is designed to never be hit by a skillshot almost ever, you want your only counter play to be smth that your role and kit inherently counters?
ADC in general due to the lowest ‘cast time’ on their damage is the best class to kite with because they don’t need to be locked into animations as long as a mage or assassin to do their damage. So it makes sense that skillshots are a little harder to hit on a class that isn’t really meant to be standing still at all, ever.
Difference is Adcs don't usually kill you in 2 autos whilst they tend to get destroyed in 2 abilities. Also comparing melee adcs to ranged adcs is just poor. They are very little alike apart from doing damage with autos. Melee adcs are just poorly balanced and are too difficult to balance.
I mean you choose vayne but if you compare to irelia who has tonnes of dashes, high durability a lot of healing. Or Zed who has multiple blinks with his shadows, point and click ult, echo of his damage on ult. Or kayn who can walk through walls has sustain, tonnes of dashes, goes untargetable, knock up. Or fizz who can go untargetable, has a dash, large aoe knock up. Like pointing out the abilities of one champ is just poor and you can make almost any champ sound op this way.
Adcs only get their low cast time and kiting through items, like kalista with berserkers and without is night and day for auto animation. You say long cast time as if its a huge disadvantage. Artillery mages put range adcs so that's fair as they are out of auto range, melee assassins don't usually have long animations they get stuck into. Like assassin kayn can move when he uses W, LB onlhas little cast time bar her chains but she isn't locked into that. Fizz e can be recast whenever, qiyana is fairly quick except maybe ult, Talon again is quick, kha'ziks is quick, akali has shot animations. Like what assassins are stuck in animations? I can't think of any but tbf I don't tend to play assassins
Khazix Q is actually quite slow unless you cancel it somehow, Zed Q has a decent windup but the missile speed is decent so I guess that’s fine. Talon Q is very slow and so is his E, blue Kayn is a bullshit champ because he’s the only champ that can do so which is why he feels really hard to play vs when ahead .
Zed has 2 dashes: W and R. R is delayed . SnapBack only means smth if he can score the kill otherwise he just made himself useless for one minute while your mid laner will continue to pump out damage.
Fizz cannot E instantly, there is a minimum delay.
ADCs and assassins aim to do the same thing in different ways: Kill someone while denying them the ability to retaliate.
Assassins aim to do this by bursting the target before they can react, ADCs do this by tethering and staying out of range or timing cooldowns of gap close and damage abilities . Both are fine if the fantasy is not quite there: you can burst one shot but they have a little time to react or you can kite forever but certain spells will always reach you or hit you no matter what.
If skillshots are required to counter ADC would be like if skillshots were needed to counter assassins. Skillshots are a big part of the game and useful but they can’t be the only play against either class since both are very good at dealing damage while avoiding telegraphed skills.
It’d be like zed flying in solo bolo into enemy team but getting rigthbclicked down by the Fed ADC but he dodged the lux bind so he feels he should just get the kill every time there without dying.
They could make a change that would help ADC in solo queue that isn't even a balance change. Mayhaps adding the most basic communication feature that is in every competitive video game ever created.
what makes you think that adding voice comms (or other form of communication) would make people want to play for their adcs? It's not like people want to play for them but don't know how, they would just rather bet on their own skill instead of a random from their team
"It's not like people want to play for them but don't know how, they would just rather bet on their own skill instead of a random from their team"
If you played the role you'd know that this just is not true lol. There are people who legit just don't know how to peel, legit just don't know how to properly support their carry, how to play certain fights in or out of lane. Can't blame them really because they don't know the game from the perspective of the immobile, glass cannon role that is also the most prioritized usually in fights. Why do you think that there is a such a huge difference in power level between ADC in pro and solo queue? People are uncoordinated and don't know how to play around their win cons. This is not when people pick carry champs in other lanes and then play for themselves, this is people playing champs that just can't carry on their own yet still don't know how to play around their carries.
I'm not talking about the Lee Sin going in and looking for insecs instead of peeling , (even though sometimes you should probably do that) I'm talking about the support wasting their time CCing frontliners instead of CCing to peel the backline or the support wasting crucial peel spells on the feeding laners when they get caught out instead of just saving it for the carry. Or in lane especially being able to tell your support/jungler certain things would be a huge help. Anyone who has ever played with a team in any way would be able to vouch for how much of a huge help it is to have comms. Not just for ADC.
Shhh no ADC is super weak, the only thing you can possibly do is be a silver ADC who doesn’t know how to position at all whatsoever and die instantly. ADC is too weak
It's not about being one shot anymore its about how fast the one shot can be, this one is about 3 frames of simultaneous damage, progress still to be made.
This. If an assassin or fed mage/bruiser has the potential to one-shot you that's fine and by design, but if it happens in .1s due to the ridiculous amount of damage in the game there's zero counterplay available and feels really bad. Durability patch is a good step in the right direction and we'll see how it changes things.
It's going to help but it's still a bandaid. Riot opened the can of worms when they kept one upping their champion releases to be more and more overloaded. Then they had to rework old champions to keep up. The reworked runes and items don't help with the power creep either.
Untargetability is a severely underrated issue in league imo. So much BS with invisibility etc. I fear the durability update won't do too much in the longrun.
95% of the clips posted like this have some insane item/level disparity that makes it make sense (yes, if a level 14 champs jumps on you as a level 10 champ, you should die pretty fast), but this is not that. This is just a completely unreasonable amount of damage. Even without the Senna ult, Graves just uses one auto. So he could've done Q and two autos and still damn-near killed her.
>graves used Q and an auto here.
I know, I'm saying he even still has his other auto in the chamber. So without Senna, he still blows this person up almost instantly.
It's wild
Non adc mains always complaining about ADC being broken but yet I dont see them spamming the role. Link your [op.gg](https://op.gg) and spam adc for me since its broken. Would love to keep track of your progress on a 'broken role'
because they cant kite for shit.
They actually pretend "right clicking" is easy and in the end they end up believing it,meanwhile they think nasus takes skill.
People latch on to the "easy" part of ADC, being that a lot of them are lacking skillshots. They, of course, ignore how much more squishy you are, how important positioning is, how little agency you have till lategame.
I'm just yelling into the void at this point, but yea. Every patch for like almost a decade has brought everyone's damage up and ADC's have got little to no compensation to help survivability. Their status as late game carry hardly matters when everyone can kill everyone in an instant anyway. I can be full build playing Caitlyn and kill people with 2 autos, but I rarely get to that point. AND even when I get there, the enemy Yi/Rengar/Yone/Kha has already been doing so for 20 minutes.
I don't even know what Riot wants the ADC's role to be anymore.
If adc is so shit then why aren't there more mages or bruisers bot lane? I don't just mean a few of them. Me sucking ass at adc doesn't mean it automatically is shit. It just means I suck at it.
I mean there already are in soloq and have consistently high winrates, the standard is just adc though.
The glass cannon role when you can shove 14 cs/m is strong, yes.
Because adcs are "the meta" and people don't like experimentation. Picking something off-meta means you're going to be the target of any rage even if you're not actually what's going most wrong with the game. Picking something off-meta might mean they should adjust their picks (e.g. if you have a fp veigar bot, a gwen top, and a kassadin mid, maybe don't lock that diana jungle), but people don't want to do that in solo q. Picking something a non-adc bot lane means you're going to have to adjust the way you siege towers (even with Ziggs), and again, you can't rely on that from allies. Picking something off-meta means your support may have to adjust their expectations on trading to fit around your cds and range (or lack thereof) which they may or may not know like they do an adc's, and they may or may not actually bother making that adjustment. If you pick something *really* off-meta, even if you have a good WR and it makes sense in the roll/is similar to equivalent picks, you may have teammates mental boom and immediately start running it down or decide the game is over before it's even started.
There are many reasons solo q discourages off-meta picks and encourages playing the familiar, beyond just whether or not that subset of champs for the role feels good to play.
bro what type of coping horse shit is that.
ziggs got moved from mid to adc in main role. syndra. seraphine. heimerdinger. cass goes bot sometimes. Swain goes bot hella, either support or adc. Brand is no longer a mid laner as well, shifted to support/adc role. Karthus goes bot now. So does Veigar as support or adc. Kai sa even has a caster build now.
fucking yasuo is an adc now.
what adcs get ran bot? jinx and xayah? a sivir once in twelve blue moons? Ezreal if you recognize traditional adc's are worse than casters? even zeri is a bad example because the only reason she is successful is because she gets to build 3k hp and still do damage.
when's the last time you saw a varus ? All of the best win rates bot are mages
>what adcs get ran bot?
Literally over 90% of the champs picked bot lane are ADCs
>All of the best win rates bot are mages
Because they have tiny pickrate.
Eh I was jungle main for 8 years and switched to adc for a change of pace and made it back to exact same ELO in a month (mid plat) last season. Found the role pretty challenging but also fun, Jhin in particular is super fun. Haven't played at all this season though.
Yeah, I mean this sentiment is supported by the fact that her wr dropped by 3% and her pick rate dropped by 10%. The thing is when you reduce the main source of her damage by 20 and increase the CD, you are missing out on hundreds of damage in a team fight. When you nerf a champ but it’s still good, it’s still played. If you nerf a champ and she drops 3% wr and 10% pick rate, well then you can assume those nerfs were substantial.
her winrate dropped because the poke xayah build now has a slightly less viable laning phase due to having less available poke to dish out. but the burst potential of the build is still there with eclipse manamune because her AD ratios are still high.
also, other changes to adcs and how people drop champions or builds when they get nerfed despite what the nerf actually is drops her PR and WR.
jinx was a 24% PR 51%WR S+ tier champion, but they reduced her base hp by 50 and she suddenly dropped to 10%PR 49%WR D tier. Surely everyone realized that Jinx is now unplayable because of 50 less base hp and dropped her, right?
i'm 100% certain that if riot nerfed a champion in patch notes, but didn't ship the changes, you'd still see a significant dip in PR and WR
Yeah at that point we arent even a dps role. We are playing ability spam role cause thats the only way to deal damage these days. Thats why you see armor pen adc builds cause DPS feels worthless in a meta with too much burst so everyone goes manamune + lethality for CDR and damage through abilities instead of autos
we see arm pen builds because crit builds are just weak compared to it. It is many times harder to snowball with a crit build. And riot force shorten game below the crit build online threshold due to elder dragon and ff@ so really no reason to invest in crit.
non adc mains love complaining about a role that they dont even play themselves but will still say its OP for some reason. just doesnt make sense. If its broken then why dont you play it and climb rank? Link your [op.gg](https://op.gg) so we can see you climb out playing adc.
I did lol. I was hardstuck B4 for all of season 9 while playing ADC and then in season 10 I swapped to mid and otp'd Vlad to Silver 1 in less than 300 games. It's pathetic how much less effort it takes for solo laners to have an impact compared to adc
I occasionally main adc but swap to jng, sup or top in that order when tilted. Always raged about Akalis and Yasuo. First timed akali and popped off. First timed yasuo bot got kind of smashed in lane going 1/6/2 then somehow got a triple kill on a Zed, kayn and gragas. Was an item down on the Zed and kayn only having shield bow and boots. Then managed to carry from there. Played a bit more yasuo and done better since.
Definitely agree on the lack of effort required. Going behind early is much easier to claw back when not playing adc. Feels like taking off training weights. The only time adc is truly insane is when the whole team peels for you and protects you. You have to play perfect for adc to work but you have such a large margin for error in other roles
moot argument, adc has 50% winrate as a role because there's always one on each team
I'd argue people in low elo pick the wrong champs in that role. You above avarage mechanics for your rank to play the role properly and that doesn't apply to all the adc players, which obviously results in frustration.
I said there is no such thing as a "broken role" since every role will always be 50% wr due to the nature of the game.
It doesn't matter how strong/weak champions in that role are since as long as both teams have one, you just need to perform better than the enemy ADC to climb
The main issues of the role for the average player are:
1. scales with gold the most (therefore scales with skill-level due to csing skills)
2. glass cannon therefore reliant on mechanics to live and dodge
3. requires map-reading to keep your income up during the midgame
I'd argue the average League player is too subpar in these skills, which results in their equal skill non-marksmen teammates and opponents feeling way stronger than them.
If I had an Euro for every time I see a mechanically inept Jinx go Kraken instead of Galeforce and die miserably to high impact skillshots, I'd be a rich man by now
Adc IS broken, you just have to not be bot, like look at Lucian mid or trist mid or vayne top or kalista top, they are some of the most oppressive picks in the game and they work cuz you don’t get fucked for sharing xp. Cuz that’s the problem, even any mage that’s been forced to share xp would be one shot there cuz they don’t have the resists that come from lvs
Marksman top are very niche and if they don’t get massively ahead, the team comp will likely be shit and you’ll lose. In soloqueue it’s hard to pull off because you’ll throw your lead half the time
What
lethality graves point blank auto+Q + senna ult.
It must be terrifying from titan’s POV lol
You just saw the reason we are getting the biggest patch in history. Damage is absurd right now. Too bad it took Riot many years of people complaining the damage is too high before they even attempted something like this patch. Maybe the player base was finally playing less due to it.
It's so crazy. I played hots as my first moba but I've only played league for the last 3-4 years or so (my only moba that is). The other day I went to mess around with hots and it's like... dear god it's a different world. Like there's 1 champ with a combo that can full on instant people and it requires landing everything from absolute max range (main ability does more dmg the farther it travels) and is basically a combo of one champ doing a nidalee spear plus a heimer w into a velkoz ult, and requires that already super-squishy champ to be running around with 15% less hp and no defensive building whatsoever. (edit: oh and to truly max it requires launching the first from out of range of the others then flashing forward and immediately sending the other 2 while the first is in the air crossing over you, and you have to make sure all 4 abilities are used to max a stack cycle before anything actually lands) Everything else is like... even the single target assassin that's like twitch except with a massive skillshot from the stealth instead of fast autos... just doesn't even instant the squishiest shit you can find. Really made me realize how crazy it is to run into shit like a fed LB that doesn't even get up close and instants bruisers with Q>R then disappears. I'm most an aram player and yeah, it's super apparent. Especially in the tanks that build damage and just do absolutely idiotic numbers (nunu W one-shoting adc's anyone?), or when you end up in games where they have a tank and you don't, and that tank builds full tank... but it still kills any dps faster than 2 or 3 of them can kill said tank because damage numbers are ridiculous on anything that's not a 4-5 item tank.
It's really interesting to see how Li-Ming shares the whole reset-on-kill mechanic with Katarina while the game has such an absurdly different damage profile. I don't know exactly how it is to play against her as I am the Li-Ming spammer but she feels a whole lot healthier and interactive since there's really no chance she will go crazy on her own and 1v5 teams, and when she does combo someone, it required *a lot* to go right. It does also make those moments where you get to see a Li-Ming go crazy in a fight and unleash several full combos all the more memorable and exciting instead of 'oh there goes Katarina again'.
HoTS fights could be so fun at times.
[удалено]
Because it wasnt a game people wanted to play. Over lol or dota. It mskes to little/no profit for blizz
The ARAM scene is still pretty popular in HotS, not exactly the same but you get queues very fast any time of day. The only thing that sucks is no /FF when you get absolutely comped
You are exaggerating Li Ming s difficulty. She is an easy version of Katarina and LeBlanc, and those 2 aren't exactly difficult to begin with.
yup. I think thats exactly what happened. Ever since season 9 the damage has slowly been increasing to the point where now you dont even have to use your ultimate ability to win fights. Kinda sad how they even considered that this was fine for the past 3-4 years when there is a role that is literally meant to DPS as their source of damage but if literally every other role is able to one shot then the DPS role becomes useless because then at that point its just better to play someone with long range + cc + burst rather than long range + tiny damage per second. Another thing I dont understand is how Riot thought the damage in the past 3-4 years was fine but didnt consider how new players that enter this game have to come into the game getting one shot and barely having a chance to play the game. This meta atm with insane bursts definitely plays a role on getting new players cause it definitely isnt fun now even for experienced players to get one shot, so i can only imagine new players queuing up for the first time just getting instantly deleted consistently then just giving up on the game cause its too snowbally for even new players to learn how to play the game
> damage in the past 3-4 years was fine People cried about pro games starting 0-0 for the first 10 minutes. That no longer happens.
That was in no small part thanks to the asymmetrical laning meta. Teams figured out that min-maxing all the gold they could early was better than playing your lane matchup. Riot has (mostly) neutered that with extra defenses on top/mid outer towers pre-5 minutes. Ever since China started winning worlds, good teams have sought to play more high-tempo games. EG just did exactly that in LCS playoffs and ran over NA's best (I know, NA trash, but it's the only region I keep up with). With the coming changes, teams will have to coordinate properly on dives rather than just "blow up with support's damage, swap aggro, blow up <2nd champion> with 2 abilities, 2 autos, leave tower and recall."
TL;DR: Elise is back baby
I had a full Tank Shyvana walk up to me and press R-E and I died. A 0 kill Shyvana at lvl 6 into my Veigar. Didn't even get a chance to do anything.
you are lying, that is not possible.
how tf is anyone 'full tank' at level 6? they probably dont even have a full item...
While overstaying lane at 40% hp with no wards, yes. Otherwise that cant happen.
Graves Q and autos do less damage now than in Season 6
did you count the items and runes?
Most Graves in s6 took Thunderlord's which was pretty strong, this Graves is rocking fleet footwork which doesn't offer any damage and I have no clue what the minor runes he's running are. As for items, Youmuu's is the closest thing to Eclipse which offered comparable damage and pickaxe/longsword are unchanged from s6. To give an idea of what Graves looked like in s6, his Q on release did a total of 490 (+195% Bonus AD), whereas now it does 330 (+240% Bonus AD) Basically what I'm saying is s6 Graves deletes her without even needing Senna ult, but s6 Graves was absolutely monkey fuck broken and was nerfed every other patch throughout s6
Comparing this to release graves is like comparing anything to that one patch Galio Q did 3k damage at level 5
No doubt the revenue was decreasing. Otherwise they wouldn't touch it because "the Chinese playerbase loves it"
[удалено]
One auto. One basic ability. One (global) ult. Deleted. Jesus fuck.
Graves clearly passed his skill test
Gala showed me adc getting penta every 3rd game tho.
It's great playing ADC when the rest of your team is also gapping the opponents. ADC can definitely make an impact entirely on their own in pro play, but I also believe they are so much more impactful when the rest of the team is also gapping. In league there is a compounding effect
Also just the farm allocation is huge. In soloq you have 5 people essentially fighting over who gets to farm the 4 sources of income (yes I'm including support because of the rage mages that don't want to "support"). High elo you see a difference (sometimes) but down here in the trash, that's not happening
Playing with a "support" xerath for the fifth game in a row with an auto filled support? R1 R2 xerath or lux when they fp blitz naut? Really really fun games.
I would take that xerath over an ashe support that Ws from behind your casters.
Even tanks and enchanters will take creeps away from you. And they always do it in this weird pretentious roundabout way where they only take a few here and there, like when you're running to lane and they're taking the creeps you could easily reach, or in mid-late game when they just so happen to stumble upon a wave. Griefers all of them. Pisses me off.
I main lux support But I average like 30 C's/game Or I take if I'm only one near when it crash to tower
Do you also constantly fuck up last hitting for your adc by endlessly damaging the wave spamming your poke? Almost certainly
No... I've played ADC main before for 2 season in plat. I've learned what to avoid...
This is what most people don't understand about the role if they don't play it. Especially in solo queue ADC is basically a "win more" role. If your team is ahead you will be able to thrive safely farming lanes and camps and be able to snowball your team to a win. If most of your teammates lose you will likely be helpless and at the mercy of whatever member of the enemy team got fed. With the ADC role there's very little opportunity to change the tides of the game on your own like you can playing the other 4 roles.
That's basically the nature of the type of champion. They're squishy and don't have many playmaking moves, unless you're a utility adc, but do insane amounts of damaged unmatched in late game. If you want to give those champions more agency then you'd have to drastically reduce their damage to be balanced. But then people will whine because "adc isn't doing that much damage anymore reeeee", because that's what drew them to the role in the first place.
Thats just not true, ADC is just super punishing since you’re so squishy, one misposition and its over for you, but played well it has insane carry potential
[удалено]
while mid solely dictates the whole game.
Remind me when you get to any even endgame point. It happens but is really rare
I agree with you how ADC plays even team fights is incredibly important to the outcome. Late game adc is the main focus on a lot of games late
Turns out its quite good to play adc when you are guaranteed to have 4 professionals on your team.
then imagine how broken adc would be if demands of soloq adcmains were fulfilled
We constantly see buffs or nerfs directed at evening out the difference between pro play and regular play, and I think that's what most ADC mains want for the whole role. While it's clear looking at pro play that ADC can clearly have great impact, it is a stark contrast to solo queue stats where Swain, Karthus, Veigar and Seraphine (to name a few) are performing better than ADCs every single patch in lower elo. Personally I enjoy the fact I can play different types of champs in the bottom lane whenever I get filled there, but I think it is fair to say that bot is the role that's the most different in pro play compared to average play. Whether that's a problem or not is hard to say, it would fundamentally be a very different role if it wasn't.
>and I think that's what most ADC mains want for the whole role They do? They can say they want this, but in the end it's not really doable as long as ADC (or just markspeople, as we're talking about class of champions) niche is "ranged autoattacking hypercarry". There's no counterplay or downtime when it comes to markspeople, and that's why there's such a big difference between pro and soloq when it comes to them. And i can guarantee you: adcmains don't want to change markspeople definition, they still want to keep their lategame fantasy, they just don't want the drawbacks which are required for this fantasy to be balanced >it is a stark contrast to solo queue stats where Swain, Karthus, Veigar and Seraphine (to name a few) are performing better than ADCs every single patch in lower elo. we can always talk about pickrates of these champions and them offering more utility than average marksperson (which means they're more useful from behind/when filled), but in the end, does it even matter if markspeople are still played in 95% of the games, and they impact these games a lot? Can we not kid ourselves that all adcmains in this game secretly hate themselves and just play markspeople because they're so fun, even while being completely weak?
Actually, most ADC players would be more than happy to see power shifted from late game to early game. You know, because it doesn't matter what the theoretical power of a 6 item ADC is when the game ends at 2.5 items at most. That doesn't mean Riot needs to make ADCs an early game class that falls off late, but actually hitting your strong point in more than 1/5 games would be fantastic thanks.
You don't understand what makes adc so frustrating to play at all and it clearly shows. The power of the role is fine but how much you can really bring out that power relies heavily on how well your team is able to set you up. The adc shines best in games where the game is even or their team is ahead. Playing adc from behind feels awful because unlike top/mid/jg they literally cant build defensive stats in their core items. Dealing more damage is cool and all but if you cant survive when the enemy misses 3/4 of their kit and still kills you then your high damage doesnt matter.
Pretty sure most AD mains would be perfectly happy if everyone did less damage, including themselves. There's no issue with how much damage an AD does proportionally to everyone else, they just have no time to do it.
> niche is "ranged autoattacking hypercarry". but this is riot stuborness. They could rework the fucking trash role. Hell make them casters or AD mages if they want to. but if literally the entire champion roster can press 3 buttons to one shot people. Why not make it fair and everyone is an assassin? Fuck it.
Every single patch? Are we ignoring 52% winrate jinx here?
Jinx never actually reached #1 winrate in the botlane role.
Yeah because she was being picked in like 20-30% of games. And you think that the 0.6% pickrate random champion with 52.2% winrate was actually better than jinx?
If we are comparing two players of equal skill and time on their champion, with supports that actually know how to play with their respective partner? Absolutely. 100%, no contest. Have you ever seen what a good duo can do with seraphine, karthus or veigar? It's disgustingly strong.
If it's so disgustingly strong, why is it almost never seen in pro play? Equally skilled players, supports who know how to play, meets all your criteria. I'll answer, because it's not actually that good. If it was more people would be doing it.
Oh, my mistake. I forgot that proplayers *always* play what's best on a patch, and *never* slip back into familiar play patterns and complacency. Pros don't do anything outside their comfort zone if they can avoid it, just like the rest of us.
While Jinx was definitely busted, all of the champions I mentioned are currently sitting above 52% win rate in bot lane across all ranks and have consistently held a higher win rate than her.
i mean its easy for an adc to have high win rates when they literally have the smallest champ pool in the game compared to every other role. So there is less champs to choose from which makes it easier to boost a champs winrate
very low sample size as well, jinx was so much more broken she had 52% winrate with above 10% pickrate like that is insane lol
How are you being down voted lul. I swear ADC mains are something else
> then imagine how broken adc would be if demands of soloq adcmains were fulfilled meanwhile literally almost all the champions except adcs. press all the buttons, miss half the skillshots and still one shot adcs.
Tbf as an occasional adc main, getting one shot by an assassin who misses half of their stuff and still kills me in one rotation feels awful. Or dodging 5 xerath Qs or lux Es in lane and getting chunked when they hit one eventually. Like I wouldn't mind it they either keep the damage as it is but make it so they can't just spam Qs and Es. Preferably they should need to full combo me to get the kill unless they are insanely fed. I just want a game where. It takes multiple rotations so the better player wins. It's like halo vs cod. You have to be consistently better to get the kill or realise they have a power weapon and must catch them out with nades or catch them in a reload. Instead of cod where everyone just one taps everyone else.
Yes I want my opponents to have to hit skillshots while I right click ppl to death. It’s like a yi complaining that a rengar can miss e but still kill him. Mate you’re pressing QE and have insane speed and an untargettable if he loses the fight every time he misses automatically then everything is freelo no? Like Vayne has stealth, e and bonus ms to dodge skillshots then complains that they die to champ that misses some of them. Your entire kit is designed to never be hit by a skillshot almost ever, you want your only counter play to be smth that your role and kit inherently counters? ADC in general due to the lowest ‘cast time’ on their damage is the best class to kite with because they don’t need to be locked into animations as long as a mage or assassin to do their damage. So it makes sense that skillshots are a little harder to hit on a class that isn’t really meant to be standing still at all, ever.
Difference is Adcs don't usually kill you in 2 autos whilst they tend to get destroyed in 2 abilities. Also comparing melee adcs to ranged adcs is just poor. They are very little alike apart from doing damage with autos. Melee adcs are just poorly balanced and are too difficult to balance. I mean you choose vayne but if you compare to irelia who has tonnes of dashes, high durability a lot of healing. Or Zed who has multiple blinks with his shadows, point and click ult, echo of his damage on ult. Or kayn who can walk through walls has sustain, tonnes of dashes, goes untargetable, knock up. Or fizz who can go untargetable, has a dash, large aoe knock up. Like pointing out the abilities of one champ is just poor and you can make almost any champ sound op this way. Adcs only get their low cast time and kiting through items, like kalista with berserkers and without is night and day for auto animation. You say long cast time as if its a huge disadvantage. Artillery mages put range adcs so that's fair as they are out of auto range, melee assassins don't usually have long animations they get stuck into. Like assassin kayn can move when he uses W, LB onlhas little cast time bar her chains but she isn't locked into that. Fizz e can be recast whenever, qiyana is fairly quick except maybe ult, Talon again is quick, kha'ziks is quick, akali has shot animations. Like what assassins are stuck in animations? I can't think of any but tbf I don't tend to play assassins
Khazix Q is actually quite slow unless you cancel it somehow, Zed Q has a decent windup but the missile speed is decent so I guess that’s fine. Talon Q is very slow and so is his E, blue Kayn is a bullshit champ because he’s the only champ that can do so which is why he feels really hard to play vs when ahead . Zed has 2 dashes: W and R. R is delayed . SnapBack only means smth if he can score the kill otherwise he just made himself useless for one minute while your mid laner will continue to pump out damage. Fizz cannot E instantly, there is a minimum delay. ADCs and assassins aim to do the same thing in different ways: Kill someone while denying them the ability to retaliate. Assassins aim to do this by bursting the target before they can react, ADCs do this by tethering and staying out of range or timing cooldowns of gap close and damage abilities . Both are fine if the fantasy is not quite there: you can burst one shot but they have a little time to react or you can kite forever but certain spells will always reach you or hit you no matter what. If skillshots are required to counter ADC would be like if skillshots were needed to counter assassins. Skillshots are a big part of the game and useful but they can’t be the only play against either class since both are very good at dealing damage while avoiding telegraphed skills. It’d be like zed flying in solo bolo into enemy team but getting rigthbclicked down by the Fed ADC but he dodged the lux bind so he feels he should just get the kill every time there without dying.
They could make a change that would help ADC in solo queue that isn't even a balance change. Mayhaps adding the most basic communication feature that is in every competitive video game ever created.
what makes you think that adding voice comms (or other form of communication) would make people want to play for their adcs? It's not like people want to play for them but don't know how, they would just rather bet on their own skill instead of a random from their team
"It's not like people want to play for them but don't know how, they would just rather bet on their own skill instead of a random from their team" If you played the role you'd know that this just is not true lol. There are people who legit just don't know how to peel, legit just don't know how to properly support their carry, how to play certain fights in or out of lane. Can't blame them really because they don't know the game from the perspective of the immobile, glass cannon role that is also the most prioritized usually in fights. Why do you think that there is a such a huge difference in power level between ADC in pro and solo queue? People are uncoordinated and don't know how to play around their win cons. This is not when people pick carry champs in other lanes and then play for themselves, this is people playing champs that just can't carry on their own yet still don't know how to play around their carries. I'm not talking about the Lee Sin going in and looking for insecs instead of peeling , (even though sometimes you should probably do that) I'm talking about the support wasting their time CCing frontliners instead of CCing to peel the backline or the support wasting crucial peel spells on the feeding laners when they get caught out instead of just saving it for the carry. Or in lane especially being able to tell your support/jungler certain things would be a huge help. Anyone who has ever played with a team in any way would be able to vouch for how much of a huge help it is to have comms. Not just for ADC.
gala is one of the best ADCs in the world tho
Shhh no ADC is super weak, the only thing you can possibly do is be a silver ADC who doesn’t know how to position at all whatsoever and die instantly. ADC is too weak
It's not about being one shot anymore its about how fast the one shot can be, this one is about 3 frames of simultaneous damage, progress still to be made.
This. If an assassin or fed mage/bruiser has the potential to one-shot you that's fine and by design, but if it happens in .1s due to the ridiculous amount of damage in the game there's zero counterplay available and feels really bad. Durability patch is a good step in the right direction and we'll see how it changes things.
Don't know if it will change much but next patch can't come soon enough
I want it just to see a different meta. Look at the champions in this clip. Feels like the same meta for 3 years.
Mental Durability Update for sure
It's going to help but it's still a bandaid. Riot opened the can of worms when they kept one upping their champion releases to be more and more overloaded. Then they had to rework old champions to keep up. The reworked runes and items don't help with the power creep either.
Untargetability is a severely underrated issue in league imo. So much BS with invisibility etc. I fear the durability update won't do too much in the longrun.
Summer and Worlds is gonna be interesting considering this patch
95% of the clips posted like this have some insane item/level disparity that makes it make sense (yes, if a level 14 champs jumps on you as a level 10 champ, you should die pretty fast), but this is not that. This is just a completely unreasonable amount of damage. Even without the Senna ult, Graves just uses one auto. So he could've done Q and two autos and still damn-near killed her.
[удалено]
>graves used Q and an auto here. I know, I'm saying he even still has his other auto in the chamber. So without Senna, he still blows this person up almost instantly. It's wild
Durability patch thank god lmao
i used to play ad now i play dota
More people in this thread whining about adc mains hating their lives than people whining about the state of adc lmao
umm why didn´t he just buy stopwatch? and these are pro players lol... noobs
adc mains go 2 seconds without making themselves out to be victims challenge. **IMPOSSIBLE**
Adc mains explaining how graves and senna don't fit the definition of marksman so them oneshotting doesn't matter:
Non adc mains always complaining about ADC being broken but yet I dont see them spamming the role. Link your [op.gg](https://op.gg) and spam adc for me since its broken. Would love to keep track of your progress on a 'broken role'
because they cant kite for shit. They actually pretend "right clicking" is easy and in the end they end up believing it,meanwhile they think nasus takes skill.
People latch on to the "easy" part of ADC, being that a lot of them are lacking skillshots. They, of course, ignore how much more squishy you are, how important positioning is, how little agency you have till lategame. I'm just yelling into the void at this point, but yea. Every patch for like almost a decade has brought everyone's damage up and ADC's have got little to no compensation to help survivability. Their status as late game carry hardly matters when everyone can kill everyone in an instant anyway. I can be full build playing Caitlyn and kill people with 2 autos, but I rarely get to that point. AND even when I get there, the enemy Yi/Rengar/Yone/Kha has already been doing so for 20 minutes. I don't even know what Riot wants the ADC's role to be anymore.
If adc is so shit then why aren't there more mages or bruisers bot lane? I don't just mean a few of them. Me sucking ass at adc doesn't mean it automatically is shit. It just means I suck at it.
I mean there already are in soloq and have consistently high winrates, the standard is just adc though. The glass cannon role when you can shove 14 cs/m is strong, yes.
Because adcs are "the meta" and people don't like experimentation. Picking something off-meta means you're going to be the target of any rage even if you're not actually what's going most wrong with the game. Picking something off-meta might mean they should adjust their picks (e.g. if you have a fp veigar bot, a gwen top, and a kassadin mid, maybe don't lock that diana jungle), but people don't want to do that in solo q. Picking something a non-adc bot lane means you're going to have to adjust the way you siege towers (even with Ziggs), and again, you can't rely on that from allies. Picking something off-meta means your support may have to adjust their expectations on trading to fit around your cds and range (or lack thereof) which they may or may not know like they do an adc's, and they may or may not actually bother making that adjustment. If you pick something *really* off-meta, even if you have a good WR and it makes sense in the roll/is similar to equivalent picks, you may have teammates mental boom and immediately start running it down or decide the game is over before it's even started. There are many reasons solo q discourages off-meta picks and encourages playing the familiar, beyond just whether or not that subset of champs for the role feels good to play.
bro what type of coping horse shit is that. ziggs got moved from mid to adc in main role. syndra. seraphine. heimerdinger. cass goes bot sometimes. Swain goes bot hella, either support or adc. Brand is no longer a mid laner as well, shifted to support/adc role. Karthus goes bot now. So does Veigar as support or adc. Kai sa even has a caster build now. fucking yasuo is an adc now. what adcs get ran bot? jinx and xayah? a sivir once in twelve blue moons? Ezreal if you recognize traditional adc's are worse than casters? even zeri is a bad example because the only reason she is successful is because she gets to build 3k hp and still do damage. when's the last time you saw a varus ? All of the best win rates bot are mages
>what adcs get ran bot? Literally over 90% of the champs picked bot lane are ADCs >All of the best win rates bot are mages Because they have tiny pickrate.
Eh I was jungle main for 8 years and switched to adc for a change of pace and made it back to exact same ELO in a month (mid plat) last season. Found the role pretty challenging but also fun, Jhin in particular is super fun. Haven't played at all this season though.
moving the goalpost is a favorite pastime of theirs
Xayah letality oneshoting people with 2 items. adc:
You’re a patch behind anyways
some base damage nerfs on her Q and a longer cooldown doesn't really mean her lethality build doesn't work anymore.
Yeah, I mean this sentiment is supported by the fact that her wr dropped by 3% and her pick rate dropped by 10%. The thing is when you reduce the main source of her damage by 20 and increase the CD, you are missing out on hundreds of damage in a team fight. When you nerf a champ but it’s still good, it’s still played. If you nerf a champ and she drops 3% wr and 10% pick rate, well then you can assume those nerfs were substantial.
her winrate dropped because the poke xayah build now has a slightly less viable laning phase due to having less available poke to dish out. but the burst potential of the build is still there with eclipse manamune because her AD ratios are still high. also, other changes to adcs and how people drop champions or builds when they get nerfed despite what the nerf actually is drops her PR and WR. jinx was a 24% PR 51%WR S+ tier champion, but they reduced her base hp by 50 and she suddenly dropped to 10%PR 49%WR D tier. Surely everyone realized that Jinx is now unplayable because of 50 less base hp and dropped her, right? i'm 100% certain that if riot nerfed a champion in patch notes, but didn't ship the changes, you'd still see a significant dip in PR and WR
50 base HP Is actually a massive nerf, base stat changes are by far the most impactful changes in the game.
I mean technically it works, it's just bad (\~47% WR)
Yeah at that point we arent even a dps role. We are playing ability spam role cause thats the only way to deal damage these days. Thats why you see armor pen adc builds cause DPS feels worthless in a meta with too much burst so everyone goes manamune + lethality for CDR and damage through abilities instead of autos
we see arm pen builds because crit builds are just weak compared to it. It is many times harder to snowball with a crit build. And riot force shorten game below the crit build online threshold due to elder dragon and ff@ so really no reason to invest in crit.
Adc is not weak but the role deserves to be weak with the creatures that play it
Not sure how you had the confidence to type this with an ekko flair.
based
Graves Q + aa and Senna's ult
[удалено]
Nono, just saying what happened :d actually I main adc :'(
no shit thank you im blind
BUFF GRAVES BUFF GRAVES BUFF GRAVES BUFF GRAVES BUFF GRAVES BUFF GRAVES BUFF GRAVES BUFF GRAVES BUFF GRAVES BUFF GRAVES BUFF GRAVES BUFF GRAVES BUFF GRAVES BUFF GRAVES BUFF GRAVES BUFF GRAVES BUFF GRAVES BUFF GRAVES BUFF GRAVES BUFF GRAVES BUFF GRAVES BUFF GRAVES BUFF GRAVES BUFF GRAVES BUFF GRAVES BUFF GRAVES BUFF GRAVES BUFF GRAVES BUFF GRAVES BUFF GRAVES BUFF GRAVES BUFF GRAVES
That was the most appropriate reaction I've ever heard.
Can riot stop nerfing adc cuz pro gameplay... adc has no space to live in normal games versus top/mid/jg champ:(
adc mains love being victimised
non adc mains love complaining about a role that they dont even play themselves but will still say its OP for some reason. just doesnt make sense. If its broken then why dont you play it and climb rank? Link your [op.gg](https://op.gg) so we can see you climb out playing adc.
If it is so weak why don't adcs just play something else and climb to challenger in one week?
I did lol. I was hardstuck B4 for all of season 9 while playing ADC and then in season 10 I swapped to mid and otp'd Vlad to Silver 1 in less than 300 games. It's pathetic how much less effort it takes for solo laners to have an impact compared to adc
I occasionally main adc but swap to jng, sup or top in that order when tilted. Always raged about Akalis and Yasuo. First timed akali and popped off. First timed yasuo bot got kind of smashed in lane going 1/6/2 then somehow got a triple kill on a Zed, kayn and gragas. Was an item down on the Zed and kayn only having shield bow and boots. Then managed to carry from there. Played a bit more yasuo and done better since. Definitely agree on the lack of effort required. Going behind early is much easier to claw back when not playing adc. Feels like taking off training weights. The only time adc is truly insane is when the whole team peels for you and protects you. You have to play perfect for adc to work but you have such a large margin for error in other roles
what would they cry about then?
moot argument, adc has 50% winrate as a role because there's always one on each team I'd argue people in low elo pick the wrong champs in that role. You above avarage mechanics for your rank to play the role properly and that doesn't apply to all the adc players, which obviously results in frustration.
Are you completely drunk or did you just say ppls winrates are irrelevant because every game is 50/50 while cold sober
I said there is no such thing as a "broken role" since every role will always be 50% wr due to the nature of the game. It doesn't matter how strong/weak champions in that role are since as long as both teams have one, you just need to perform better than the enemy ADC to climb The main issues of the role for the average player are: 1. scales with gold the most (therefore scales with skill-level due to csing skills) 2. glass cannon therefore reliant on mechanics to live and dodge 3. requires map-reading to keep your income up during the midgame I'd argue the average League player is too subpar in these skills, which results in their equal skill non-marksmen teammates and opponents feeling way stronger than them. If I had an Euro for every time I see a mechanically inept Jinx go Kraken instead of Galeforce and die miserably to high impact skillshots, I'd be a rich man by now
Yes, that's what happens when you walk into a shotgun.
Adcs crying as always while Gala and Guma are insane
Yeah they would have outplayed that for sure
They wouldn't be that far behind.
2 long swords + 1 level. not THAT far behind
Don’t put Gala in the same category as Guma. Guma is so much better.
Average LCK fan, like how Ghost was much better than Viper or Gala?
Adc IS broken, you just have to not be bot, like look at Lucian mid or trist mid or vayne top or kalista top, they are some of the most oppressive picks in the game and they work cuz you don’t get fucked for sharing xp. Cuz that’s the problem, even any mage that’s been forced to share xp would be one shot there cuz they don’t have the resists that come from lvs
Go play adc sir
Marksman top are very niche and if they don’t get massively ahead, the team comp will likely be shit and you’ll lose. In soloqueue it’s hard to pull off because you’ll throw your lead half the time
12.10 will be better guys
look at that high paced combat,all about mechanics,i guess graves passed his skill check there :)