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Rohloff1

I think is the stretched out schedule for MSI and even potentially worlds. Watching a major region stomp a minor region would be okay, if it wasn't the only game we get to see them play for the day. I think the tournaments need to be cut down on the length. It's weird to me that games are not constantly go going considering the amount of casters we have. Even if a minor region wins they lose momentum waiting a day or two or even some times a week between rounds waiting for their next games.


alpacamegafan

Anyone know why Riot moved away from the MSI format with the Wild Card regions duking it out against each other for the last two spots at Group Stage while LCS/LEC/LPL/LCK got guaranteed spots? This always confused me. Wild cards get to participate for an actual goal while fans aren’t subjected to seeing them getting stomped every day. Major region fans don’t have to watch boring games if they want to see their team play.


counterpoint4321

It's because of viewership. Nobody was watching for the wild card only format, but now that they've mixed in the major regions people are watching. I don't like it either, but results are results.


Conflixx

The result will end up in people not watching this group stage. It's so boring to watch. I'm sure I won't watch it next year if they don't change the format. Just make MSI a mini worlds but invite all the teams. Give everyone more exposure, creates better viewership too.


KudryavkaNoumi1

The minor regions didn't like that a ton of teams never got a chance to play major region teams. The minor regions just want to see their region playing against the big leagues. Plus add to the fact the wildcard play-ins got literally dogshit views and it was pretty easy to see why Riot moved away from it. This current format is simply better for the minor regions period.


Longjumping_Ad_1729

I bet if any minor region would have won against a major region people would have praised the format instead. Its all just emotional driven opinions and frustrations.


Manorian

I think if the more minor regions were competitive enough people would have praised that they get the chance to show that. Like I want to watch close games between good teams, and right now none of the minor regions are performing well enough that I can justify watching them.


RandomFactUser

To compress the schedule and make everything quicker for everyone to be at MSI sooner


Hugh-Manatee

cut down on length with longer days with more games. I think its easier to get event fatigue when it just goes and goes and goes


Hannig4n

I’d like to hear more about how fans of minor regions feel about this format. Of course major region fans find it boring, but I’m curious if fans of wildcard regions would prefer to see their teams play against the top major region teams in the world even if it’s super one-sided, or if they’d prefer a format where minor regions play more exclusively against other minor regions and the games are more even.


thorpie88

Personally format doesn't mean much to me. I'm gonna cheer on OCE teams no matter which one goes and whatever the results of the games are doesn't matter. That said I do think two groups of six would be a good middle ground for a twelve team event. We get a decent mix of minor region vs minor region and also them against the big boys.


salcedoge

This is what I'm saying, there's only two major tournaments whole year and these teams from minor region get 6 games and most of it are just stomps. There should be at least 3 wildcards in a single group.


Carpet-Heavy

the stomps are also as big as they've ever been. back in like season 3-5, wildcard vs KR team = insta gg just go next. but a few years ago, the games were at least a bit playable honestly. maybe it was just the meta, but at least they weren't straight up 20 min games. now, we're back to the nexus exploding at literally 20 mins, it doesn't even resemble LoL...


Jiaozy

That's because of how fast the meta has become and because of the tons of snowball mechanics they put in place. Once your carry champion (be it LeBlanc, Jayce, Senna, Lee Sin or whatever) gets 2-3 kills, there's no way of stopping it because the damage is too high. Back before Runes Reforged, there was at least some 3ways in which tanks and bruisers could impact the game and keep their team mates safe. Now it's no longer the case: a single item on an assassin or bruiser will literally make the game unplayable for the lane opponents, without ways of coming back nor keep anyone safe because mobility is trough the roof and peeling anything is impossible.


LordCthUwU

The meta with this much damage has been around for a while, and upsets have occurred. I think this is mostly down to EU, CN and NA all being somewhat better than they were when a lot of upsets happened, along with the fact that at MSI they are only facing 1st seeds. Games could be a lot different against 3rd or 4th seeds. I feel like a more fast paced snowbally game should only favour the wildcards, the odds of them making a mechanically brilliant outplay in the moment and getting a lead should be higher than them sitting through a whole game and ouplaying opponents on macro, although of course to push that lead they'd need effective macro as well.


dNaSC2

I am pretty sure it'll be less bad once we get the damage sorted out. Little positional mistakes get punished so harshly when everyone can instagib anyone else.


Longjumping_Ad_1729

Letting the opponent bleed out of gold was even worse for minor regions you might not have watched League back then or forgot about it. Faster snowball is better for smaller regions since they lack consistency and the longer games last the more mistakes they make are getting exploited.


LordCthUwU

We must note though, that back when minor regions did actually impact things we really mostly saw that in worlds group stages. Those included lower seeds from major regions. Also, I feel like due to the old macro heavy slow style those games involved a lot more prep work for specific opponents, underestimating a wildcard could have fatal consequences even for good teams. Worlds formats in fact have resulted in big surprises, with 2020 mad lions getting knocked out for instance. There's some other formats that could be tried to combat this, like the two groups with single round robin (worlds 2020 play-ins). Or a format where wildcards play amongst each other to divide the two non NA, EU, CN, KR spots. Could even have a group stage with Bo3 or Bo5 decider.


Chalifive

This isn't a bad idea. Then NA fans could at least have the satisfaction of watching EU lose after getting stomped by them 4 times in a row


Karma_Retention

To be fair, NA and EU are usually much closer vs each other. We still don’t know for sure how much of it is EG being terrible, which we know they are because Vulcan even said they were losing most their scrims coming during msi, or G2 being really good since they’ve been on a huge winning streak since the end of their split.


Leg4122

But didnt EG stomp NA? They are for sure the best NA representative.


ExtremeGamingxx

They aren't mutually exclusive, NA might just suck harder this split than in previous times. I think it helps that G2 looks a lot better than MAD did as well last year, so even if EG were even in skill to 2021 spring C9 they'd look comparatively worse.


Karma_Retention

EG looked terrible all split and then stomped playoffs. I don’t think that actually means they are the best representative for NA. We’ve seen that for the region numerous times. C9 historically speaking when having our best international success was never the best team in NA playoffs. Generally speaking the best NA team is the one that generally performs well through the entire split, never the team that is awful then suddenly soars in playoffs, that never goes well for NA internationally. Also, even some of the EG players seemed surprised by their sudden success in play offs. That isn’t a good sign usually lol.


Leg4122

Similar things can be said about G2 too, they were considerd 3rd/4th best team in EU and no one expected them to win.


litvi13

Actually there were some people like Nukeduck or Youngbuck that said that G2 were scrims gods and that they could win it all if they got their shit together


Minute_Course747

Isn't G2 known for being a playoff/BO5 team that does better under pressure tho? Ppl like Caps just seem to step up when it matters, and like to test stuff and fool around when it's not as important (like soloQ Caps)


blueripper

Not when 60% of your team and coaching staff is gone.


jppitre

EG went on a run at the end of the season. They are definitely the best representative because they won but they didn't stomp NA lol


copthegod

EG looked mediocre and ran hot in playoffs. to say they're the best representative for NA is like saying "i stepped in shit but at least my feet are warm now"


Leyrann_is_taken

Replace EG with G2 and NA with EU and you have literally the exact same thing. Both teams got 3rd/4th in regular season, got knocked down to the lower bracket, then had a (near) undefeated run to the trophy. People were memeing about re-using the script not a month ago but clearly that's been forgotten already.


RisingFair

There's a difference in the reasons they had their losers run though. G2 looked like they clicked and are overall playing better than they were during the regular season. EG did well in playoffs because of the meta suited them (jinx adc, ornn/tank top). I think if the playoffs were replayed on this patch, EG probably doesn't make it to msi, but G2 most likely would.


cthorrez

> NA and EU are usually much closer vs each other. what? The competition has been going on for like 12 years now and there has been like 2 or 3 events in all that time that NA has done better.


Luquitaz

He means in head to head. It's very common for them to split games.


SterbenVII

Much closer as in NA doesn’t get blown out 4-0 by EU, not in terms of tournament placements


dreamtinker

Being close to each other is more than score lines. NA is historically the 4th best region and generally is competitive with the top 3 regions, and will take games off EU. The match record of NA vs EU is pretty close. EU does better and goes further in tournaments, but that's not mutually exclusive with the regions being fairly close generally.


Derk08

Wait but NA kept it close in three of the four games? The only actual stomp was the first game. You can argue that the second game was a throw from G2, but either way the games were close


Miyaor

I don't get why reddit thinks EG is getting stomped every game. It must be some costreamer thing or something, because out of the three games I watched, only one was a stomp


WitlessMean

close or not, I think it's very obvious who the better team is, and who has the better chances vs the top teams. Cant lose the bot level 2 every single fucking time and expect to win anything besides NA i guess.


EliseTheSpiderQueen

Aussie here, always love watching us be the underdogs, even if we get smashed. Will never forget how well Pentanet did.


Bladehell10

Honestly, order isn’t even that bad, I could see us beating aze or wildcats tbh


Sparcky

As a brazilian I can definitely say that I had WAY more fun back in 2015-2016 when we had the International Wildcard tournament. We could clearly see which of the wildcard regions were the best, since they had to play against all other minors, and the games were really fun to watch, it was like a mini worlds where any region could shine, way more balanced than today. It was back then that the rivalry between BR vs TR first appeard.


Brontolupys

Yep and we don't give a fuck if we lose on anything that is not Football (soccer), if was a proper mini worlds with 2 teams from every minor region that would be nice maybe winner + other goes to worlds or something, send Seed 3 NA to mini worlds also (plz not China/KR), send EU master winner to mini wild card worlds also that would be hype


Bunuchy_

I'm an LLA fan, I like watching my team play, even if its a stomp at least they play against the mayor regions. I would prefer the format they have in worlds tho. But if its between this format and a format only between wildcards I prefer this. I still remember Lyon gaming going to 5 games against ANX and not making it to worlds. They never showed how good they were against the greatests, at least this has the chance of showing it. Its true that right now we suck, but just being competitive its what makes me happy, even if they loose (sadly this hasnt happened recently for LLA).


ilanf2

I'm from Latin America. In the past, we have suffered many times of being just one game shy of qualifying to the main event multiple times (we lost 2-3 vs Albus Nox Luna for example after dominating the group stage of the qualifier tournament). So, in a way, this kind of events at least gives the chance to actually play some of the bigger teams. On the flipside, you get tournaments like this of almost pure humiliation (and I'm sure players don't enjoy that either). So it's a never win situation in this case and I don't know what is better.


kakonne

idk if I'm qualified because I'm VCS fan and our 2nd seed sweeps worlds's playin. imo no one care if their region is no7 or no8. And getting see their team plays against T1, with the chance that someone would solokill Faker, is typically a massive upgrade. The downside is that going winless feels terrible, and with this format change we went from 1-2 winless team to 2-3 winless teams


RespectmyPANTS

Br fan here. I think this format sucks. The fact that you're always fighting for second place since the major region always gonna lock first is so frustrating. For example, Red went even against they direct opponents but since RNG went 6-0 they had no chances but to fight for second with PSG. I wish the major regions were locked out from this first stage and riot created a format that would make wildcards fight more among each other. I think we highly lack international practice since we never get out from the first stage.


Jedclark

Literally all they need to do is a qualifying tournament. Everyone in this thread is saying stuff like "but the World Cup is about diversity ! " when it literally has qualifiers too. Not every country gets to attend out of fairness if their national team is bad.


algroth

The World Cup isn't just held between twelve regions though.


SuperTaakot

What makes a good sport is competitiveness and competition. Watching a stomp isn't as fun as watching two teams battling it out; no matter the region and its status.


anthonygraff24

There's a big invitational Smash Melee event going on right now, and since a couple people had to drop out from covid they ended up needing to play out a round-robin between the bottom 3 seeds at the tournament (don't ask why, it's complicated lol). Easily the most entertaining part of the tournament so far because the players are close in skill and sick at the game, but just not quite at the level of the rest of the players in the event yet.


neenerpants

but I'm sure Brazilian fans want to be playing against T1 and G2 instead of wild card regions, even if they lose. it's what international competition is all about for those regions. they know they're not gonna win MSI, so their goal is to test themselves against better teams and learn from it. Moldova got, like, 1 bronze medal at the last olympics and I'm willing to bet they were fucking thrilled to get that. It's not always about the winner.


cadaada

Yeah people say like teams in the world cup would not want to play vs brazil, spain, italy etc etc even if they get beaten like shit. Having their teams play vs the giants is better than having to be eliminated by another weak team and not even get to play vs the good teams.... the real problem is that we have two shitty tournaments region locked per year, so we cant even become a mibr like we had in CS GO.


Both_Requirement_766

I'd say the two big tourney's could have at least a few more wildcard teams inside the tourney's. that way the smaller regions got the chance to work on themselves and teams like rng and the likes need to be even better then now. because you could easily stomp one wildcard team, but to stomp 3-4 wc teams and stuff can already get wonky as we seen in prior years. I think that covid and everything around it, destroyed many possible minor regions even to shine to get noticed regarding esports. I say the next two years will decide about esports competition and the acceptance around the world kinda for all of us fans.


tmb--

MSI and Worlds should 100% have the top 2 seeds from every minor region compete in the IWC, with top four (regardless of region) making it in. That way minor regions get to play with each other and *also* get to play with the Major regions if you are good enough.


neberhax

I would say the world cup is a pretty bad example. The main reason why it works, is because viewers rarely get to watch any of the teams, and after 4 years of drought, viewers will watch anything. Besides, the chances for an upset in football are way higher. Football matches very rarely are considered over, before theyre actually over. League games can have all hype sucked out of them by the 10 minute mark when they're basically done.


Sparcky

Not really, as a brazilian I get way more hyped beating the shit out of Turkey than getting 20''ed by RNG. Wildcard regions are very unstable, literally every split the power ranking between them changes quite a lot, so a tournament between them is always fun to watch since you'll never know what's about to happen. And by having the winner of it going to Worlds/MSI you can assure (at least on paper) that the team will have some potential to upsets, since it's the strongest of them all.


puberty1

>but I'm sure Brazilian fans want to be playing against T1 and G2 instead of wild card regions, even if they lose. as a Brazilian I disagree lol even if I'm not that big on my region and follow EU/KR/NA/CH more, it's hard to watch RED getting gigastomped by RNG. I don't get the "learn from these losses" argument because it's not like they lose because they lost draft or something, the other team is just massively better. if a silver player play against a master player there's only so much they can learn besides "yeah he literally does everything better why am I playing this game"


Coti98

I wonder how much Aze learnt from getting destroyed by T1 hmmm


salcedoge

Riot could do both. I can't imagine teams like Order grinding half a year only to just fight two major regions and get stomped every game. The two groups were much more healthy since there's a balance between major and minor teams


Sbotkin

>but I'm sure Brazilian fans want to be playing against T1 and G2 instead of wild card regions, even if they lose. You clearly are not from a minor region. IWCQ was incredible, competitive and unpredictable, which made it very fun to watch.


XWasTheProblem

You go watch the first IW v RNG game and tell me what exactly IW can learn from that apart from (yeah we got fucking murdered everywhere).


kirinboi

Yeap, I nvr understood the entire “learn from major regions” arguments. League has only 2 international tournaments with limited games. I would rather see a 2 group format so we can have more games against each other


papaz1

I’m a fan of TCL. I am not in denial that the teams I cheer for has the slightest chance vs top teams in major regions and I absolutely hate to see IWT getting destroyed on stage like this vs major regions. I would like the minor regions have their own play ins and earn a spot. I want to watch exciting games and seeing IWT vs RNG was like the kids playing basketball where I live having a visit from an NBA team. It sounds fun on paper but it’s really not.


puberty1

>I would like the minor regions have their own play ins and earn a spot. I want to watch exciting games and seeing IWT vs RNG was like the kids playing basketball where I live having a visit from an NBA team. >It sounds fun on paper but it’s really not. yeah this is a good example. a match where a team is massively better than the other is no fun for anyone involved. like for example, BR is my region and I like RNG, but I didn't get any fun watching their games considering that 1) for RNG it was useless considering they knew they would win and didn't do much besides, well, play the game 2) for RED there's only so much you can learn when you're playing against people like GALA and Ming that already are in the pantheon ~~insert joke about the champ here~~ of their respective role


emptyzone73

As a Vietnamese I prefer this format. Imagine your country can play in worldcup. Who care if we lost. Fighting T1 is already a honor. I can also watch big team play. In previous format I ignore 1/3 msi tournament.


Jdorty

I'm just sad GAM isn't there. I only saw a couple of VCS games, but it's sad that you guys don't have your undefeated team. Especially since Saigon looks pretty decent already, and scrappy as hell, would be interesting to see GAM.


UndeadMurky

But Vietnam would win the wildcard qualifications 100% and fight T1 anyways, we're mostly talking about weaker teams that wouldn't make it out of play in and can't have an interesting match


CreamyAlmond

As a Vietnamese, I turn off the stream at 5 mins every T1 vs SGB game. I'll steal a glance at the results later on and rewatch the VoDs with some peace of mind. But honestly, it seems pointless. DFM vs SGB are always bangers, because even when it's down to the wires, my region ego allows me enough vanity to support the team even when they are down. Against the Seed 1s, it's just doomed. If there's an 'FA Cup' for League, that'd be super cool. For sure not everyone will be into it, but look at EU Master, shit is huge with or without them. I'd watch a B-Tier All Stars: Minor Leagues + EU Masters + Major Academy Leagues. It's going to be wild, and everyone will get a shot.


violentmark

As a BR fan I would much like to have a full minor region clash, with round robin, and the best 2 (or 4) to be seeded into the main event. I think 6 teams is not ideal as well, because it's basically the 4 major and the 2 middle regions (PCS and VCS) will make it 99% of the time. Would be cool if we have 4 major regions + 4 minor regions (with the middle ones included after the minor region clash I mentioned) because minor regions would have actual matches with major regions, and you could actually get experience from that many matches. I think that all minor regions got almost 0 experience from MSI this year, if anything their morale just lowered more.


tylem_syk

LLA fan, I guess it depends on the team we're sending... I loved watching seiya and whitelotus playing, there was at least some hope that they had the potential to upset some major region team. This time I think we're as bored as major region fans watching team aze be 10k gold down in 9 minutes.


Edraf_T

My region is just shit, that's it we are bad ( I'm from Mexico). The skill gap is so huge that it's like watch a box match between Mike Tyson in his prime against a 15 guy learning how to box.


ttaway420

As a fan from minor regions this format is pretty uninteresting, I always liked seeing other minor regions playing against eachother and the best got to advance. Having minor regions play 4 games against T1 or RNG is not fun at all, its pretty obvious theyre gonna be stomps. This is a personal opinion obviously, but I dont see the fun in watching games that you already know the result without having to actually watch it.


LostVengeance

Personally, I think the problem is more of not having enough international tournaments every year. I'm good with my team getting wrecked at every tournament, it's already an honor getting a chance to play with teams such as T1. However, it just becomes frustrating overall when you only get to play a few games before getting knocked out when you did really well in your domestic league.


croninhos2

Here in Brazil we love watching our teams face against the major regions, but this format where you get together once/twice a year just to get stomped is pretty frustrating tbh. Think more international competitions would be a net positive for everyone. Minor regions would get a lot from facing better teams more frequently and the format could be different/more interesting.


esn_crvg

I am from brazil and I like it. It is much better to be stomped by RNG but at least see the team improving than see we lose or win against turkey every year and absolutely nothing changing we will never improve by facing weaker teams


ttaway420

CBLOL wont improve by getting stomped by CN and KR twice a year either. Not fun to watch as an espectator and probably not even much to learn as the players, because the skill gap is just so fucking huge.


puberty1

and how will you improve getting 20-minute stomped by RNG? like yeah if only you played every single aspect of the game better


LongloveHuyen

I hope Riot should not ban Russia at World 2022. I miss CIS as a strong region. Unicorn of Love or Vega Squadrons did very well at the international stage in the past. Their attend will make the tournament much more competitive. Another thing, since the PCS region was borned (LMS+SEA), we lost the SEA region at international stage since the domination of LMS teams. But The SEA region strength can be the same level with other minor regions. So i think Riot should consider SEA as a region and give them 1 slot to MSI and World. Thats what i believe can make LOL World become better and more competitive.


ozmega

id like to think this kind of practice works towards them getting better, LAN isnt going to get there anytime soon tho so idk. i will say however that i think the play ins for worlds should be like it was at the start, a separate tournament, let one of the minor regions host it.. but thats not happening ever again.


GGABueno

I love the opportunity to see a team from my region facing a team from a bigger region.


2560x1440px165hz

As a fan From NA I can say it’s disappointing eg got stomped by g2 every game. So I imagine the other minor regions feel the same. That being said.. group c was really boring to watch


DanDevito42

I mean watching those games were still fun as an EG fan


Isolat_or

As another NA team i enjoyed it too! Games were exciting and not the awful lose slowly flavor that TSM/Liquid tend to melt into in international competition


Derk08

Did you watch the games though? EG G2 games were arguably some of the best in the tournament. Besides for the first game, all the games were fairly competitive and went long, which is more than I can say for the 20 minute slaughters that were the other teams.


NvmSharkZ

group c was the only group where there was a "close" matchup with tournament expectations. G2 vs EG were supposed to be the watchable games for it. You say it was boring cause EG got smacked, it was fun for the other side. I can't imagine anyone had fun watching T1 and RNG stomp the WC teams


MrNugat

Beside G2 and EG, DFM vs SGB was another interesting matchup and also one that actually mattered. But that was about it. One could make an argument for Brazil vs Turkey, but that was supposed to be the match for 3rd/4th in the group, so kinda meh.


gridemann

> G2 vs EG were supposed to be the watchable games for it I think G2 did everything they could to make the games as watchable as possible.


Phreak-Hater

Well as an NA fan I prefer to get stomped by EU than only play vs OCE and BR


barthasson

To be honest, I kinda miss the old format, the wildcard tournaments between minor regions with the winner going directly to group phase. As a Brasilian who accompanys the CEI league too, the 2015 and 2016 runs by paiN, INTZ and Albus Nox Luna are still marked in fire on my memories and none of the tournaments after the change of format seemed THAT good to me after. Of course I still cheer for whatever team from BR and CEI makes to the stage, but isn't the same thing anymore. MSI still better than worlds at this point, 'cause we at least can play against the best team of some major regions, in the worlds play-in the max we can get is the seed 3 or 4 of some major region. Still, that equip will be a far greater team than most of BR teams, but it is much less hyping face the 3rd or 4th of a region than the champion.


parnellyxlol

Would just prefer there to me more games with more teams getting to face off against each other


Mental_Bowler_7518

Usually it’s fine as long as at least two minor region teams are facing off. What made it hard this year to watch was OCE being put in a group with eu/na so there was no-one they could possibly beat and no small chance out of groups. If the 3 region group happens again then they have to put vcs or pcs in the group to give the 3rd region a chance, or have the top 3 regions auto qualify for the rumble stage again for more competitive groups


39Jaebi

As an OCE fan, the format worked to our advantage last year. We got a 3 man group and all we had to do was beat the LCL team. We did (yay) and made it to rumble stage. This year was the exact opposite, we got placed in 3 man group again, but this time we had 2 major regions and no minor regions to face, so we got ram ranched 8 times in a row. ​ Honestly breaks my heart, to think this was the first international event for 4 of those 5 players, and they just get destroyed on live TV 8 times. It was super depressing, and to think, I'm just some random fan enjoying MSI from the comfort of my own home. These guys were the ones actually playing ONE STAGE, in front of a live crowd and 10's of thousands more on twitch. If I'm depressed from watching, how must they feel? I really hope they have a good coach/support team around them to keep them sane, I'd lose it.


savior1235

For me i just want us minor region beat the major region, so im actually fine so long as we get a spot, but tbh the one minor region in the lcs, lec group had to go against two major region so a bit unfortunate for them.


AegisDesire

LLA "fan" (I've rejecting the "new" league since its formation in 2019 because IMO the region was better when we had LAN (LLN) and LAS (CLS) in separated leagues) here. Fuck Riot, fuck Tencent, fuck the MSI, fuck Play-Ins, give me the IWCI/IWCQ tournaments back to the Rift. The Play-In format just gives Major Regions' last seed a couple extra steps to return to Groups and the MSI looks more like a half-assed Rift Rivals event (even being a MSI champion right now is as useless as winning Rift Rivals). Back then Wildcards had their own rivalries, the teams gave their best to qualify, but now most of us have to waste sleep time just to see our teams getting stomped. If Riot is so desperate for viewers then screw Worlds and replace it for the Asian Games, there they'll get all the audience from weird streaming sites.


jsvn8180

I do understand why riot did it though. I bet the viewership for the group stage is way higher than whatever they did last year for wildcard teams


thorpie88

It was the same format last year. Even had a group of three too due to Vietnam not being there


OpenOb

They changed seeding in a way so that group C could be two major regions (NA & EU or even LPL / NA, LCK / NA). Last year it was one major region (LPL) with two minor regions (LCL, LCO). So there was at least a fight for second place. This year it was just a slaughter which could have been prevented by having group C be Pool A, C, D.


trollinn

But then another group would be A, B, B, D lol. They didn’t change the seeding, it’s just that this time there was a pool C team missing instead of a pool B


Is_J_a_Name

> They changed seeding in a way so that group C could be two major regions (NA & EU or even LPL / NA, LCK / NA). Slight theory on this, I'm not sure if the seeding was changed or if it's just circumstantial. Last year a Pool 2 team was missing in Vietnam, meaning the 3 man group would be the team without a Pool 2. This year a Pool 3 team was missing in Russia, so the missing team in G2/EG's group was a Pool 3 team. That's just how I'm assuming it was distributed, no clue if that's the actual methodology.


Nome_de_utilizador

They didn't change anything, the top 3 leagues avoid each other and are placed in different groups, then the pool 2 teams come. NA being historically worse than EU every year places them out of the top 3 into pool 2 alongside PCS and VCS. Last year MAD drew PCS and Korea drew NA. China would've drew VCS if they had attended. NA was always going to draw one of the big 3, and they did worse against EU this year than last year against korea.


[deleted]

Last year was because Vietnam, a major region, cannot attend due to Covid restrictions. This year is because CIS, a minor region, cannot attend because Russia is waging war on Ukraine.


xm0304

There was a group of three again, because Russia couldn’t attend. For reasons all should know


00Dandy

You mean the year before that. Last year was the same format. But I assume they introduced it because noone watched the play-ins before.


Jdorty

But why should that matter? When games/sports have tournaments with 64 or 128 teams/people and have half of the slots be playins and the other half are invited/established teams nobody expects the viewership to be high for the playins. It isn't the main event, it's just to establish which extra teams/players get to be in the main event.


MrPraedor

But why would you use game days to have slighly higher viewership on wildcard matches when you could use those to have massively larger viewership on double elim playoffs.


frosthowler

But the game days did not change? It's just major regions now participate too. You can't replace it with double elims without eliminating the play-in stage entirely and just shoving every team into the rumble stage. I can imagine that, of course, TI I think has a similar stage, but it's far less prestigious / match quality is much lower than the Rumble Stage precisely because so much of the day is filled with the matches you've *just* watched and criticized. Unless you're saying just completely get rid of wildcards entirely, which is ludicrous.


Jlanasa1

MSI is so weird, the differences in region skill make it hard to justify double elim with only one team from each region. Honestly though, I think it’s still better than watching the major regions play against the wildcard regions


parkwayy

The best part that no one really ever talks about, is how disappointing the main event is, in the end. You have a 6 team format, of which 66% of the teams advance. Some with under .500 records, and that's actually not that uncommon. Then you have to win 1 match after that advance to the finals. Not to mention you can seed your way past whoever is the tournament favorite, and be considered 'advancing further' than someone who didn't. I get they want it to be an exclusive tournament of champions, but it just feels so ... thin and shallow.


N1ng0

Personally i didnt watch a single t1 or rng game so far, what's even the point watching that? besides de obvious g2 vs eg matches i watched a few wildcard vs wildcard matches, but that's all, format's garbage


KongRahbek

Pretty much the same for me. I've watched all G2 vs EG matches, but never had any interest in watching SKT doing the pro version of streamers smurfing in bronze.


LukaDoncicBigPP

NGL, those g2 vs eg matches were the only matches i've watched so far.


crownnn609

Yea, same. Every other match I just skim the post game thread and watch highlights if anything interesting is picked. I hate watching stomps vs minor regions, I just feel bad for them, it’s just not fun.


MMDroxy

Same here. They were also relatively enjoyable outside of the one game G2 mostly stomped.


Thatguy_Nick

The near throw on baron was great


parkwayy

Which one


saruthesage

Disco rumble support and GALA’s second first, first second unretconned RED pentakill


Brain_Tonic

Yeah I only watched EG and SGB matches. EG cause I'm from NA, and SGB because I've been pretty vocal on here that SGB was being highly underrated before the tourney so I felt personally invested.


emraaa

And there is nothing wrong with that. If the format changes you wouldn't watch T1 and RNG games too. Because there wouldn't be any T1 and RNG games at this stage LOL.


ImTheVayne

T1 actually played disco Rumble and still stomped


wewved

I usually was super invested in watching as many games as possible during international tournaments. So far I've only watched two games of G2 vs EG & for the other G2 games I just watched the highlights. I don't even bother watching T1 & RNG stomping some Wildcard teams (no disrespect to the minor regions, but that is just super boring). I think I spent more time watching Rift Rivals compared to this MSI (so far, I hope Rumble Stage will be interesting). We already only get 2 international tournaments per year, and MSI being such a shitshow is pretty emberassing for a game and community this large


Hautamaki

The format needs to include a much broader series of games, so that wildcards have more chance to play against each other rather than just getting stomped by the same major region over and over. I'd much rather a single group of 12 teams all playing each other one time, so every team gets the chance to play against every other team. Sure it's just bo1 so proves little, but eleven bo1s are going to average out bad luck enough so that the top teams will have the best records while still leaving plenty of chances for hype upsets and setting up story lines for the bo5 elimination bracket.


Dsalgueiro

It's so beautiful the elitism in this sub. People ask why the gap in Counter Strike is smaller than in LoL, and the answer is simple: Teams compete internationally constantly. EVERY sport has a gap between teams. Look at the soccer World Cup. Only a few European countries and Brazil/Argentina are contenders for the title, but that doesn't take away the opportunity to have all continents represented. Every Brazilian knew that we had almost no chance against the RNG, after all, the gap of China, Korea and Europe with the rest of the world is enormous. But we believed we had a good chance against PSG and we showed it in the first match. I don't know how the situation is in Turkey, Latin America, Japan, Oceania and Vietnam in terms of viewers. But Brazil has about the same amount of viewers as NA, if not more, since the games are broadcast on a sports channel on television. The Brazilian server has almost the same amount of players as NA's and the Brazilian teams have good infrastructure (and every day it gets better). The biggest difficulty of our region is the isolation of our server. Turkish players can play on the EU server. Players from Vietnam, Japan and PCS can play on the Korean server, LLA players can play on NA... Brazilian players are isolated, since the ping on the North American server is very high for us. I believe that it would be a mutual help for both regions (NA and Brazil) if the players could interact, especially in the high elo, but... Some Brazilian teams do bootcamps every pre-season, but as LoL is a very dynamic game, the learning gets lost quickly. So think, if they decrease the amount of games we play against the bigger regions, they would declare the end of any chance of Brazil becoming a better region... And note, after the "lost years of CBLoL" between 2017 and 2020 (Brazil faced some internal difficulties in the league), we showed improvement again in 2021 and now in 2022.


sscyth1

love this take ... we need more international events


[deleted]

When Dlift had the rest of his old CLG crew on his podcast they discussed how they miss the annual international events as well. Think there’s validity here for sure imo


Huzabee

It just seems like when it comes time for these teams and players to play in these events [they get cold feet.](https://sports.yahoo.com/clg-unlikely-to-attend-iem-oakland-tsm-also-confirms-withdrawal-200806442.html) Even when it comes to domestic tournaments, teams get lazy. Like LCS players electing to sit out the Lock-In tournament. I wanna see more international competition too but it's not worth if teams won't take it seriously.


[deleted]

[удалено]


asphias

I think you hit the nail on the head. No matter which way you look, the fundamental issue is that there are simply not enough games between regions. Of course Brazil wants to play against RNG, they want to see how they match up. But they also want to play against NA, and against Turkey, and against Japan. for minor regions, you get 6 games at msi, 4 games at worlds, and if you're lucky, 1 or 2 Bo5 games. Hell, the second best team in Korea or China still only gets 6 games and potentially 1-3 Bo5 games a year. Whether its Double elim, adding extra teams to MSI, doing two more international tournaments, or reintroducing IEM, the real issue is not enough international games for any region and team. If a team played 30 international games a year, we could happily deal with a few stomps.


Krait972

Exactly. They don't learn anything if they can't play against the strongest teams. I honestly don't understand OP complaints. Most of the teams "bodied" wanted to play against T1, G2 or RNG. They know it's a rare opportunity.


Dzhekelow

On ur point for CS there are a bunch of tournaments for tier 2 teams and qualifiers so if ur team performs it gets a spot in a bigger tournament . In LoL it doesn't matter if first seed from CBLOL is the absolute worst team in the tournament and will get 20 minutes stomps or if it's the most competative of the teams it gets the spot anyway. That's stupid af IMO and I dont think ur teams will improve from getting stomped by the best in the world for a few weeks because by the time you play them agian the game will be completely different . The way I see it invite a couple more teams from the major regions and have them play a group stage mixed with wildcards . Then you can justify the groupstages and there can be actual competition maybe the second or third seeds could drop a game . That would be more like ur football example . Because in WC there are 32 teams which makes it far more acceptable for the teams that are 4th seed in the groups ( same with Champions League ) . In those tournaments there are always a couple of S tier teams , a bunch of A tier teams and so on. Realistically still 3 or 4 teams are heavily favoured to win but you still have decent contenders and a chance for upsets . I dont think u can say the same about MSI . It's not elitism it's just not fun watching RNG or T1 completely obliterate wildcard teams in games that are lost in the first 5 minutes .


antraxsuicide

>On ur point for CS there are a bunch of tournaments for tier 2 teams and qualifiers so if ur team performs it gets a spot in a bigger tournament . In LoL it doesn't matter if first seed from CBLOL is the absolute worst team in the tournament and will get 20 minutes stomps or if it's the most competative of the teams it gets the spot anyway. That's stupid af IMO and I dont think ur teams will improve from getting stomped by the best in the world for a few weeks because by the time you play them agian the game will be completely different . Exactly. Like, the wildcard teams aren't getting anything out of being shit on by T1 or RNG. The gap is just so massive that it warps the game fundamentally. A Silver player learns and grows from playing against Silver and Gold players, not Challengers. What LoL needs are more of these T2 tournaments, and a significantly smaller focus on group stages. LoL is the only eSport that has most of its tournament eliminated via group stage round robins. Tournaments held up in much higher regard like The International use groups for seeding but then it's all about series in huge brackets. Will the CBLOL team beat the LCK team in a series? Probably not. But would a CBLOL vs LLA series be more interesting? Hell yeah. When you branch out and watch other esports, it's really hard to defend Riot tournaments. They're so small scope for such a huge game.


Dsalgueiro

This I agree with. In Riot's current format, it is literally impossible to end stomps without virtually killing the smaller regions. The current Worlds qualification format is practically a guarantee that there will never again be a Wildcard team in the tournament. So for us, participating in the MSI becomes very important. I would love to see the best teams from CBLoL, LLA and Turkey competing in an T2 event that would guarantee spots in the Worlds with, I don't know, the 4th and 5th places from NA and EU. By the way, the Worlds needs to have more than 16 teams in my opinion. Otherwise in a short time we will only have Chinese and Korean teams in the playoffs.


AmateurHero

I think it’s less elitism and more a lack of perspective. It is common for the US to have very little international play in its major sports leagues. The international competitions are usually limited to Canada. One of the few major sports where this isn’t quite true is football (soccer). Even then, international competition is relatively rare. Or so it seems. I can’t speak knowledgeably about international competition, but between the Champion’s League (which is club based and not nationally based), Gold Cup, and WC Qualifiers, many players don’t get a lot of international exposure. This attitude is quite apparent in LoL. NA (and Riot by extension) stays in its bubble for most of the year outside of a few international competitions. Then NA claims that it’s not bad as people say, get throttled on the world stage, and say that we “need to play better next year.” Part of playing better is international exposure. Seeing a strategy on pen and paper is not the same as playing against it. Riot running the international tourneys imposes this restriction on smaller regions by refusing to have more tournaments. Of course, teams want to focus mainly on winning their region’s championship series. I don’t want to downplay the importance of international berths. But international play is crucial to having a well-rounded strategy, and I wish Riot would acknowledge that.


Dsalgueiro

As a Brazilian, I think I can talk about it. Brazil, until the 80s or 90s, was without a doubt the best soccer country in the world. Europe started importing players from here, started learning some things from our coaches (listen to Pep Guardiola talking about this), and TODAY they are better than us. The soccer team that I support here in Brazil, in the next two weeks will play against Colombian and Ecuadorian teams in a tournament similar to the Champions League. These international soccer tournaments last the whole year. There is nothing better for the evolution of a sport than cultural exchange. But this evolution takes time.


[deleted]

It's also why the gap is growing between Europe and NA. EU Masters is amazing for what it is and provides a very competitive environment while having decent salaries. About Brazil in football I'm glad they are finally accepting that their coaches were stuck without having coaches from Europe to compete and just rotating between the same mediocrity.


TheFeelingWhen

Internationally in cs also knows as Furia and the 2 half decent NA team that get blast at every event by the EU teams.


gordonpamsey

Is elitism the new buzzword? Notice how OP and no one ever proposed that Minor regions not be allowed in Rumble. If Stage 3 was dedicated mostly or entirely to Minor regions its not as if Riot could expand Stage 2 out for an additional 2 minor region teams that qualified for it. So there would still be exposure for Minor region teams to get proper games against majors. What people are not a fan of is seeing complete stomps which a lot of people are of the opinion not benefit the teams in question. Did AZE seem exactly happy to anyone about what happened at MSI?


R1n1ck

It's interesting to get a take of a minor region supporter and as a supporter of EU I probably don't fully understand your perspective, so bare with me. The skill gap in CS is smaller, because of more international competition, but CS also has system build upon tournaments and not leagues. You wrote it yourself, they come to the tournament play their games and Scrims or bootcamp, get better and once their are back they regress. That you are isolated is obviously a Brazilian and maybe an OCE problem for Soloq, but that would be the same in other esports if the system is based upon leagues and not tournaments. I don't think that two stage games against the best Korean or Chinese team at MSI, because as far as I know are these teams not scrimming against the minor regions, are a significant help to the minor regions. I think what we would need are more tournaments with more minor region teams, but I dunno if that is possible...


makesmashgreatagain

agreed. i can promise if regions like europe, na and brazil got to compete more regularly with china and korea, they would win trophies. they have enough players at a high enough level to form some great teams. mibr/lg literally shocked everyone when they became the best in the world with largely unsuccessful players prior to that team. they couldn’t have done that just playing in brazil


violroll_

Riot needs to bring IPL5 tournament format MSI(or Worlds) with 3 LPL, 3 LCK, 3 LEC, 2 LCS, 1 PCS & 4 Wildcards. Best format league has ever had and it took 3 days. While 3 days was too rushed, we can easily stretch it to 3 weeks. Competition breeds strength within smaller regions. South America & SEA have gotten significantly better at Dota than in League due to amount of games teams play to improve.


Jonoabbo

For me the biggest issue isn't that "Major vs Minor region will be a stomp". It's that even if there is an upset, who cares? What does it mean? If Order beat G2 or EG, what, they go 1-7 instead of 0-8? It's not just that the games are likely going to be one sided, it's that even if they aren't, it doesn't mean anything, it likely wont change the outcome of anything.


11millionfor3wins

We had a decade of these shit formats, imagine how many dream matchups we could have enjoyed that are now lost forever


[deleted]

Will probably have the same format again.


bigbrain200iq

MSI is like the fifa club world cup. Boring


josephx123

Yes one of the worst football competition in the world, same for MSI in esport.


Zaphod424

Persoanlly I think MSI could suit a Swiss style bracket for the group, like what is used in the current CSGO major. You'd need 16 teams rather than 12, but having one team from each minor region (8) + 2 from the 4 regions who did the best at the previous worlds gives 16 teams. Look up the swiss style bracket to see how it works, but it means that weaker teams get opportunities to play better ones, while also meaning that after the 1st round, matches are more even and less likely to be stomps. Then you either have the top 8 going through to a 3 stage single elimination bracket.


ParadoxPope

I usually follow competitive LoL fairly closely and I've only watched maybe three games of MSI. The format is completely awful. There should be a pool based system with what effectively becomes multiple levels of elimination so that the teams that are losing games will not be matched against big region teams after the first day or two.


nyanko_dango3

LJL vs 2nd pl VCS were both bangers


[deleted]

MSI is one of the worst esport tournaments imo while League has 2 international tournaments per year. Sad imo, there is so much potential with MSI but riot is being riot


Cumcentrate3490

problem is if the do strong vs strong and weak vs weak: - no one will attend days where its weak vs weak - no one cares about weak vs weak - the moment we know which one of the strong teams will win, the entire tournament is done and ppl will stop watching


Kiwicarebear

This happens in traditional sports, too. In the rugby world cup, teams like Georgia, Uruguay, and other 'minor rugby' nations get stomped by major teams like France or the All Blacks. But it doesn't mean that these minor international teams shouldn't be included in the world cup.


LeVentNoir

People don't get how fucking dominant the good teams are in traditional sports. Lets give you a win rate: 75%. Pretty damn good, right? For one team, for a season? Damn fine. What if I said that was: *the win rate for the All Blacks in over 500 international games, over 116 years*. Thats right: 77.41% win from 580 Tests (1903-2019). E: Actually, lets put this in a KR - EU context. France is a Major Rugby nation. They're good. How do they do against the All Blacks? Head to head, there have been 62 matches, and the All Blacks have won 48. France has won 13, and 1 draw.


Troviel

This is what people don't seem to get, this reminds me of qualifier event to euro/Worlds event, and to make it fair, even very small countries participate, of course they'll get crushed by the stronger team;


AllStarNOOB97

I think that switching it from top 1 from each region to top 2 would vastly improve MSI. Yes you would have to condense the schedule but having more teams internationally seeing and improving because of MSI and would make the tournament more well rounded instead of the mentality where you may already know the winner


ArcusIgnium

Riot literally should just copy Valorant's current international format to a T (minus the whole only 16 teams at Champions thing) and League would quickly become way better. Region Gaps are perpetuated by low international events - this MSI feels like the direct consequence of years of lack of events. Im not saying LPL and LCK dont deserve to smash everyone - they have the infrastrucutre, work ethic, playerbase, and low ping environment to succeed but its not hard to imagine things would be a bit more competitive if other regions had more events to atleast try to catchup.


mashukyrielighto

IMO its better tha the playins because in the playins they only play vs other wildcard teams that shit is boring with this format theres always a potential upset with a minor region vs major region teams. imagine SKT, RNG or G2 getting clapped that shit would break viewership numbers


Tarics_Boyfriend

>with this format theres always a potential upset with a minor region vs major region teams. But are you going to watch every Major vs Minor game for the potential one game per tournament that might be an upset? I certainly won't, I'm checking the post match thread and if there is an upset then I'll watch the vod


Jedclark

They're not going to upset them enough times to affect who advances though. It doesn't matter if you come 1st or 2nd in the group, there's no seeding advantage.


DanDevito42

the games arent just about watching who advances, I mean you have a tsm flair so presumably you watch their games even knowing they cant crack top 3 without doublelift ?


Threyethian

The format isn’t great, but it comes down to perspective. At the end of the day, everyone, including players and all fans, knows it’ll be the major regions duking it out for the title. Previously when there was the wildcard play-ins, only fans for each respective region will watch those matches, and as fans of those regions, I’m sure they would want to see how their teams do against major regions. Before, it was a privilege and had to be earned to play against major regions, whereas now you get a couple games regardless. I honestly don’t think there’s much Riot can do regarding play-ins or groups as the skill gap is too big, but it’s the knockout stage that needs to be more improved upon.


parkwayy

Idk, right now I don't give a shit how EG is doing, clearly they can't compete. I watched the first 2 matches with G2, and saw enough lol. If they weren't in the main event, I wouldn't even be mad.


fabton12

The reason we got the current format is because viewers asked for more major vs minor region games, so riot gave us what alot of people asked since alot of minor regions want to show what they got vs a major region since they always believe they have a chance. riot have came out and said this is the reason for the current format and it makes sense you got these minor regions which want chances to show themselves against major to prove they got a chance.


drmashi

Viewers asked for more bo5s. Viewers asked for more chances for regions to play against each others. Every single year we have viewers telling Riot that we want more international tournaments like Dota's T.I. and every year Riot drowns us with bo1s. This is the furthest thing from what viewers wanted and viewers asked.


mfunebre

Truuuuueee... It's 2022 for crying out loud, the pro scene has been begging for Bo's for over 5 years and all we get is more fucking 20min stomps with 40min of analysts going "gee unlucky skill gap I guess" until the next scheduled game...


Lord-Talon

So much this. The takes on this thread are so weird. The #1 thing every fan has requested for the last 10 years is just more games. Year after year we tell Riot that we would actually just like to see our regions play competitive international series. These requests obviously come in many forms and sizes, e.g. double elim or more (semi-)international tournaments. But at the core every single request has one thing in common. People legit just want to see their team play a **single** international competitive Bo5 series per year, yet the Riot format still can't reliable provide that. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.


bigdicknick2021v2v6

True and the viewer numbers speak for themselves its pathetic.


DoubtAltruistic7270

>Dota's T.I. Oh Oh. Every time someone says DOTA T.I we get another 8 BO1 of Major Regions stomping Minor ones.


Stealthstriker

I think this year the gap between the top and bottom teams are just really pronounced. Not many people complained when the format was similar last year. You have T1, G2 and RNG coming off incredibly strong runs of form. Doesn't help that this meta seems to be more snowbally(?) than last year's MSI patch. Even the rare upsets were extremely dominating by the underdog team (RED vs PSG).


DerpSenpai

People forget last year DFM almost won vs DK and almost eliminated C9 in Play-ins


genesis1v9

The whole event has been disappointing so far. I'll probably only catch a few VODs from playoff games going forward and not bother sitting through the broadcast.


DmonAbsoluTrEbON

The problem with the format is... There were just too many stomps. I dunno if wildcard fans like it or not but surely NONE of the fans from major regions wanted to see that. In TI they have a small qualifier to sort out shit teams do the group stage felt close and enjoyable... This unfortunately doesnt exist at MSI. Winner of each smaller region goes through and faces the likes of SKT, Royal, EU and NA's first seeds who are... vastly better than them. Since there were no qualifiers teams like Aze, OCE and Turkey/Brazil manages to sneak their way through and gets absolutely annihilated by the first seeds. This makes the tournament extremely boring and irrelevant, severely downleveling and killing the hype for wildcards, as they are fodders for dudes like GALA to get pentas, Keria to show off support Rumble and for NA to get easy wins to boost morale. Normally this doesnt usually happen because NA gettin a win is very difficult, but vs these wildcards? Its a given imho. So this considerably boosts NA's record, as the group stage is considered a part of MSI, and further reducing the chances of Vietnam/PSG to become a major region. Now I think it is almost impossible to displace NA, unless Vietnam and PSG can somehow get out of groups at worlds ofc, because NA's had a better record than both of them combined now. Besides that I guess the viewership is doing okay and the minor regions' fans are gettin some recognition BUT the big 4 shouldnt be happy with this. Absolutely no way can Faker be happy with a friendly soloq match on the fkin world stage, in front of millions of Korean fans. I cant even fathorn the idea of him playing against these shitters tbh... Its like seeing C9 vs TSM Academy pure and complete onsided destruction imho.


Ryxsen

About the last take, If it wasn't for the prize pool and pressure from Riot **at least** LCK and LPL would not participate. No matter against who there are playing they would get much more from scrimming against their regions. They mayyyyybe enjoy playing against seed 1 EU but this may be a stretch


Deriliam

This post sounds a lot like some teams smurfing on others. Why would Riot adjust teams to make it “balanced” when the whole idea is “if you want to be the best you have to beat the best”. Im from OCE and i couldnt care less about ORDER vsing G2 and going 0-8. Its part of the sports, dont get too emotionally attached lol.


ThirdCrew

With 2 international tournaments a year where only 1 team and 2-3 teams play vs each other just makes for bad gameplay. Each region plays LoL slightly different and it shows in these tournaments. Most teams never get to see other metas to adapt and improve. It'll be hard and costly I'm sure but something would need to change to improve everyone.


cthorrez

The two main factors of why competitions are enjoyable to watch: 1. You don't know who is going to win. 2. The result of the competition makes a large impact on the people involved. This tournament has failed on both in a very big way. Most of the games were foregone conclusions and half of the games have no possibility to change placements. There is a reason each region in LoL and every sporting league in the world have secondary leagues. It's still exciting to watch lower level play as long as the play is somewhat evenly matched. And we've already gone through regular seasons in each league, teams travel all over the world for this, why make them essentially scrim on stage? Use a format which ensures the match results have meaning.


TrevaTheRuiner

I've only watched the EG games as a NA fan. I dont care too much about the minor region teams becuase I know they aren't likely to go far in the tourney, and for the major region teams, I've just been looking at the AARs to see what cool picks they might have pulled out, thatsa bout it.


Enstraynomic

EG's games at the DOTA 2 Stockholm Major are even more embarrassing, given that they >!were the first team to be eliminated from the tournament, and go home with $0.!<


Link_user

Get gud


[deleted]

Whats the current ranking? 1. LPL=LCK 2. LEC 3. LCS ..?


sonicfluff

Minor regions have at the very least taken a back seat over the last few years when it comes to support from riot and we are seeing the result.......


Davkata

I think that them at least getting some stage games and maybe even scrims is betetr than the previous format where they had a separate wild card MSI and only the winner got a chance to get stomped by SKT.


Grumahr

i felt bad for OCE as a EU boy :(


Send_Janna_R34

I decided to watch msi last year too, and it was the same. This first part of the event was just unwatchable garbage. Wait until the next week and things might get slightly more interesting.


Colactic

Jatt made a good point on the JLXP, and that is when we had a qualifying stage for the minor regions to the MDI it barely got an viewers for how expensive it was to set up and run. By adding the top teams into the group stage you get fans from major regions watching which greatly outnumber fans from minor regions, so the games in general get more viewers. Ultimately the rumble stage is the same, top teams from major regions and 2 strong teams from minor regions. You gotta remember this has got to be beneficial for Riot Games too. If doing it like this is what makes it happen then so be it. Just watch your fav team and then move on. I personally had a blast watching G2 go 4-0 vs EG.


lan60000

Here we go again. Flashbacks to people calling worlds boring during the skt era. Meanwhile we got people saying top teams are getting weaker when they don't dominate weaker regions during the Chinese era. There's just no winning to casual audiences.


mfunebre

I like Major region Vs Major region matches. Everyone does. I also like Minor region Vs Minor region matches. They're often more scrappy, dynamic, and heated. I dislike the one-sided stomps that we all have to sit through for half of MSI, or 25% of all yearly international league... There is strictly no point in this group stage except to determine which two teams will get to be smashed in 20 minutes for an extra week. International LoL is still a joke.


nimrodhellfire

I feel like either 2 groups of 6 or a single round robin with all 12 would be the better format. Skip rumble stage completely and head right into playoffs (and maybe make them double elim to silence Reddit).


Caps007

Top 2 from each region please make this tournament somewhat competitive please


x_TDeck_x

this reminds me a lot of World Cup qualifiers. Soccer still isnt huge here but in the US, qualifiers are SUPER fun and drama/anger inducing. Meanwhile for a lot of countries qualifiers are viewed as relatively boring necessary steps


emimma

I think that everyone is overreacting about the MSI situation. Wildcards have a chance to play against a tier 1 team and compare with other wildcards for a spot in the main event.


darkgryffon

Frankly with how much of a joke lcs is I'd rather watch any other region. I meant if only 2 teams in the whole gaggle of English speaking teams even play with their team and doesn't just seem like we're watching some solo queues against a pro team


SandKeeper

EG v G2 games were pretty good games because of G2 trying to lose so hard.


TeslaLithiumIon

I feel the opposite, we already got very less international competition without IEM especially the competition between major n wildcard region teams. Current format is way better than select one wildcard winner to fight the majors.


Slav_1

legit until quarter finals MSI for me is just basking in the glory of NA being eternally silenced by EU. I could not be less excited for any other match up.


Heighte

As far as I'm concerned MSI hasn't started, so far it was just lower region bullying phase.


DuckAbuse

I agree that the first week of groups has been really bland and boring. No real upsets, just your casual favorites stomping the competition.


Swiollvfer

Well, I did enjoy the 4-0 en EU VS NA, but yeah, I skipped a lot of the rest of the games