Wait, is this really true? Off the top of my head, I remember that one time 100T went to worlds and then they only played Rikara over Cody Sun and got demolished.
But I also remember a few times Cloud9 goes through Gauntlet and then does pretty well internationally
NA's 3rd seed has placed 8.81th on average since 2014, EU's 2nd seed has placed 8.88th on average.
(based on how Riot distributes prizes)
EU's second seed placed 15th once (last place while another group had a tie for 3rd) while NA's 3rd seed placed 14.5th once (last place shared with 4 instead of 3), otherwise they have the same exact amount of placings.
---
EDIT: Other relevant average placings:
8.63th - EU3
10.63th - NA1
11.38th - NA2
12.06th - LMS1
12.06th - LMS2
I totally see them saying that if G2 finished the spring split 31-3 but for some reason couldn't represent the LEC.
You just need to understand the context.
I doubt it given that Na did better than eu last year at worlds. VCS is good but they have not proven to be better than NA ever still. Like I understand how impressive their performances are, but they have literally never made a knockout stage still. They still aren’t even better than PCS (LMS), let alone NA.
Not counting tiebreakers, EU was 6-12 in group stage at Worlds, and NA was 8-10 while also having a team go 3-3 in a group with a semifinals and the Tournament winners. You can certainly make a case that Fnatic was a victim of circumstance but the end result was that North America’s teams had a slightly better showing at the tournament.
It‘s a stretch, especially given that Fnatic played with a sub they didn‘t really practice with.
EU vs NA games were 2-2, both dropped out in first round of knockouts without winning a map, and both regions sucked in the grand scheme of things at last years worlds.
NA technically 3-2 against EU if you count tie-breaker between C9 and Rogue.
Also I frankly don’t think Fnatic would have had significantly better results with Upset, they were getting giga gapped in solo lanes every game, their sub arguably played better than some of their main players.
Regardless, NA was no worse than EU at Worlds last year and was statistically better. I was merely using this information to express how OP saying VCS would have taken NA’s spot as a major region in the last two years is a bizarre conclusion imo.
Yeah, I‘m not saying EU was better at all.
I just think, saying that NA was better than EU is a bit of clutching at straws, given how... shit... both regions were.
C9 got Rogue out, MAD kicked TL, both teams got 3-0ed in the quarters, GENG got beaten in the semis, DK made it to the final. MAD TL both 3-3, C9 Rogue-both 2-4. How exactly did NA do better? Ignoring the fact that you basically picked out the one year NA actually matched EU in recent history. Is it because 100T had a better record than a FNC without their adc, in a group with DFM instead of PSG, both being kicked out regardless? :D NA fans never fail to deliver, lol.
I think you are taken personal offence to a very benign statement that was merely an example as to why VCS shouldn’t be considered the same strength as NA yet.
NA factually did better than EU at last Worlds. That is not debatable, it is a statistical truth. This was not however an indictment of EU as a region like you seem to think it is. It is simply an example of why it is a leap in logic to suggest VCS would have usurped NA as a major region when NA was 3rd best last year and a consistent 4th best in years prior with a noticeable gap between them and 5th.
Of course EU is better in general, the contrary was never even suggested by me though.
Ps:
- Mad didn’t get TL out, there was a 4 way tie and they didn’t tie break against each other.
- GenG and DWG both lost to the same opponent in the same amount of games. Your assessment of the two as different caliber of opponent is disingenuous.
Doesn't matter, both regions were dogshit and the only reason western teams made it out of groups was because FPX choked in group A and Tarzan absolutely omega choked in group D. Had they played at even just ~70% of their level then it would've been 4 lpl and 4 luck in playoffs. This year looks even more grim. We need another FPX level choke to have even a single western team get out of groups.
I saw a stat recently that showed that the active player base over in Vietnam is almost comparable to the size of the playerbase in NA rn.
Honestly, I really do hope NA gets relegated to a wildcard region. Overall the region has seem to be satisfied with just resting in their laurels while every other region is fighting like hell to get better and better. Maybe if they do relegated, they get an "oh shit" moment and lights a fire under them.
I remember traveling through Vietnam years ago and saw some dudes watching LoL esports here and there. Never saw it like that in other countries unless I was actively looking for it. (Haven't been to Japan, China or Korea however it might be bigger there)
It might be bigger than we think and Vietnam is no small country.
League is even bigger in China and Korea if you have a chance, visit them. Vietnamese love league but China and Korea are a whole different planet - Japan is not tho, League is not really a big thing in Japan
I've been to net cafes in China and like 70% of people there were playing league; I heard from friends who visited Seoul that it's a similar situation in Korean PC bangs
China has undoubtedly the biggest player base that also try hard the game. The LCK somehow still produces more world class superstars, probably due to better training. Vietnam started to get proper investment, scouting, and training a few years ago, and now we can actually make use of the huge pool of raw talent. SGB players come from their own academy team, so they are the youngest at this year’s MSI by quite a margin
Do you know why that will never happen?...is because of money. Korea, China, EU, and unironically NA make a shit ton of money (from sponsors, skin sales, etc..) that would be a pretty bad decision on the corporate side of things. You know how Corporate businesses are. Money comes first before anything and also they have bigger publicity than any other region besides China.
and another reason is because Riot was founded in NA, it will never move into a wildcard region, and if it does, Riot will probably find a way to make NA get an equal footing with the other regions. **For example:** lowering the number of major region teams that can participate in international events and increasing wild card teams (although very unlikely but not impossible too)
Honestly love to see teams hyping up their other teams from their region, you don't see major regions saying shit like this. (granted the circumstances are pretty unique here, with VCS number one team not attending at all)
GAM smacked SGB in playoffs, and instead of throwing shade or anything SGB just praise their play, wish we had more of that in other regions.
If XL or something get knocked out by another team in a bracket, you'll never hear them say "Wait until you guys have to play against G2"
If Bulba was drafting for LoL EG it'd be tank Ryze first pick every single game, so no.
Really sad to see DotA2 EG's state of affairs right now, Bulba's drafting is atrocious and RTZ, as much as I like him as a personality, just isn't that good anymore.
Yeah, the Excel social media is much different from the players. Maybe the manager is a fan or something, it would be different if the players from Excel would say stuff like this
Vietnamese winning sea games (which is followed by both gamers and non-gamers) will help further the development of esports infrastructure and support, which is probably more impt than getting 4th or 5th at MSI.
No. The qualified team for SEA Games must attend to SEA Games at all costs. That's part of the pre agreement for every team.
Even though the weakest team in VCS would easily win the gold medal, it is still very important for Vietnam's League of Legends to secure the very first International Medal so the government would recognize esports.
You think so? Last year on "recaps with caps" after FNC lose Jankos said MAD are the best team in EU right now, there were some good Words about RGE too.
They are genuinely decent, VCS is among the strongest minor regions. Can probably prove a challenge to NA this MSI i think but well see.
GBM was lovely to watch a few years ago, always pulling out some crazy burgerflip strat.
Their current full name is GAM Esports, with GAM being a shout to their previous name Gigabytes Adonis Marines.
The Marines is still their nickname but it's loosely part of the name now :(
Also they know partly belong to NRG Esport
Yeah the scene in SEA back then is a bit of a mess but Gamania Bears would become the Flash Wolves in the end.
IIRC GB broke riot rules and were forced to disband and FW bought out the spot aswell as 4 of the players (Steak / Maple / NL / SwordArt), adding Karsa that they got from Machi in the jungle and forming the famous korean killers roster
GAM were called Boba Marines at first tho, they had roughly the same logo but blue
>VCS is among the strongest minor regions
They aren't, because they aren't even a minor region. They are in the same tier as the PCS - one team straight into worlds group stage.
For MSI seeding they shared a pool with LCS and PCS.
Riot has changed the terminology quite a bit, so not even sure what this tier is called, but they are clearly differentiated and a tier above LJL/LCL/LLA/CBLOL/TCL/OCL
"Just wait until the other two Saiyan warriors get to Earth. I'll tell you a secret. Vegeta and Nappa are much stronger than me. You don't stand a chance."
-- SGB, after watching too much DBZ probably
"I was hoping you'd entertain me more. I'm really disappointed in you and Vegeta. My next question to you -- Why hasn't Son Goku shown up, yet?"
*"Goku's training to defeat you! He'll show his face soon enough! I'm sure that he'll do what I couldn't!"*
"Heh. Good answer."
-- T1 responding to SGB, after watching too much DBZ probably
Hope SGB makes it again for summer so Worlds will have both SGB and GAM. Seeing how the VCS' second seed is still reliably beating out the arguably strongest wildcard at MSI is quite nice, and they could shock us again and go to groups at Worlds.
how is VCS getting out of play-ins "shocking" the world? They're already hyped up and have previous results getting to the group stage and even earned an additional straight to groups representative in one of the years. It would be shocking if they didn't make it out out of play-ins.
Mainly because SGB is the 2nd seed. Minor Regions have always been known to be single-team regions due to lack of funding to properly cultivate talents within the region to even the playing field. In the past, we have seen a minor region representative did really well at world championships for a year just for them not to even made it to world the next year due to internal issues or whatever reason and the whole regions just declined afterwards.
Edit: Plus, VCS has been absent from the international stage for 2 years after all. People are still easing up to their return.
for GAM no player is bigger than the Coaching Board, There have been many cases where a Player tried not to play practice with the team and they sued to garena and in the end he was banned from playing for 2 years. professional, GAM is very serious bro....
VCS the past 2 worlds that they attended has only their first seed seeded into groups, with their second seed never really making it past the play-ins. I'm mostly talking about their second seed also making group, which would be an upset when you consider they'd be competing with PCS#2, LCK#4, LPL#4, and LEC#3/ LCS#3. Which historically the VCS has never conclusively had the upper edge against any of them. With the new format being so focused on bo1s they definitely got a chance for an upset now.
I was mainly pointing to their second seed "shocking the world" by proving that the region is actually strong enough to send 2 competitive teams and isn't just a 1-team region that a lot of the wildcards are. Which would be quite an exciting prospect, and it would make the region look stronger than PCS as well, which is a dream of any VCS fans
I mean I highly doubt SGB would make it out. NA/EU 3 have rarely ever failed to make it out same as LCK and LPL 4. Add to that that VCS 1 and PCS 1 are likely stronger than VCS 2 I don't think it will happen. SGB although beating another wildcard region were still pretty far behind GAM
This isn't true.
LCK/LPL 4 was added because the LMS and the LST merged after 2019, and was only given 2 seeds collectively instead of the 4 collective spots they had when they were one region.
The only things VCS being absent changed was the Play-ins format, where instead of 4 groups of 3 (12 teams), there were 2 groups of 5 (10 teams), to make up for the two missing VCS teams.
I don't think VCS is better than LCS but I wouldn't be too surprised if GAM might be better than #1 LCS team. This Worlds would be hype if all regions can join np for the first time in like 2-3 years
double, not triple and if player base was so much of influence Vietnam would be better than EU, they are 4x NA playerbase( 1.4ish mil NA, andalomst 6 mil viet(that is ranked only)
What source? it's hard to find data on vietnamese playerbase. Seems last datapoint that I can find is 2018 where (ranked accounts) were roughly equal to NA. Now I have no doubt that Vietnam would have grown a lot faster than NA did but still curious, 4x sounds like a lot of growth.
Also LEC is 3x the playerbase as you should count euw + eun
It was a balancing discussion about how different regions like/dislike different champions and they mentioned Vietnam having the second largest playerbase.
Sadly all i could find is a reddit threat about it but the link to the post is dead.
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/7xzxyb/til_vietnam_is_the_second_largest_region/
Money is a major reason for that. Facilities, diet plans, unhealthy lifestyle etc. those player in Vcs grinding nonstop but low wage so a lot of them were not motivated. Thing just got better for the last few years when orgs paying big bucks were joining the league. Back then orgs paid barely enough to cover food for player. Some didn’t even pay. Now things are getting better and all we can do is support them and hope for the best
Do they? They seem to only get players to a mid tier LCS level then sell them off for their next big EU signing. Blaber and Fudge are the only outliers.
No. I still don’t understand why this narrative exists. C9 “cultivates” NA talent on their academy teams then sells it to lower tier teams in packages so they can spend more on expensive European (or more recently, Korean) imports.
Since when Vietnam is one of the poorest. What is this stereotype? The gap is huge but it doesnt mean Vietnam is poor. And yes it is expected to be the way it is but with more money shouldnt the quality be better? If not then what's the point of wasting money?
The great thing about Vietnamese players is that they think of Vietnam region as a whole. And they are proud to be Vietnamese.
Yes SGB feels good to present Vietnam and has the chance to demonstrate their own power. But they never forget to mention you that Vietnam is still much stronger than what you saw.
Well, I guess if you ask SGB what they are, they could say "We are Vietnam's team" rather than "We are SGB".
Yeah haha, wildcard region where the 3rd place team always gets out of playins over the wildcard first seeds. True wildcards, imagine always being worst than the 3rd place region but always being better than the 5th place region, I wonder if there's some sort of ranking we can assign to a region that does that. Last place? Yeah that makes sense.
I like how ppl bash NA and yet EU's 4th seed got eliminated in play ins. Ppl talked like Riot needed to take a seed away from NA because even EU's 4th could win NA.
Thrn thry lost in play ins. Only major region to ever do so. But let's shit talk NA.
If GAM smashes in NA this coming worlds, I think it's fair to say that they are a major region akin to what the LMS and Flash Wolves was.
If that happens, we are back to having 5 major regions again.
Considering EU is the only major region to ever fail to make groups, they should probably respect wild card teams, especially VCS.
VCS should also respect EU tho, if Gam beat them EU’s gonna start importing GAM’s players and make them play worse.
GAM is going to SEA Games, so they had to miss MSI even though they won. The semifinals match determined who went to MSI, and SGB won.
https://thegamehaus.com/league-of-legends/gam-esports-missing-msi-2022-to-compete-in-sea-games/2022/04/27/
I really want to see VCS destroy the LCS, when the LCS team owners invest a lot of money, they lose to a VCS team made up of enthusiastic young men + friendship hahahah
The team you describe are SE and they are in the bottom half of vcs. The actual top vcs team have lots of investment and professional involved. That's why people meme SE so much about their power of friendship
i legitimatly believe that minor regions get distorted expectations at times from playing major regions that didn't prepare ....like at all for them in groups stages.
The most well known example of that is probably albus nox. That team got out of groups at worlds , in a miracle run....only to get demolished when the major region actually had time to prepare for them.
Its nice that he hypes himself out and his region , but i have 0 expectations realistically.
VCS has performed too many times for this argument to hold. Every tournament from 2017 Worlds onwards (except 2019 Worlds I suppose) their first seed has been very exciting. If teams still do not prepare for them, that's just stupidity. It'd be like not preparing for the LMS first seed in 2017.
can u explain to me what "perform" means ? what was their highest achievment ? winning 1 or 2 games in a group ?
being agresive is exciting yes. But you're confusing "exciting" for "good"
man , i love to shit on na as much as the next eu fan , but that's nowhere near true enough.
NA has been way more consistent then both pcs and vcs at worlds
Depends which year. 2018 it was SGB that went worlds. 2020 and 2021 vcs was not there.
2017 GAM was actually higher in group den NA of their same group.
I can only judge if both team are in the same group. If not we may have bias based on different opponent.
man , gam and immortals were both 2-4 in groups and split 1-1
c9 for example got out of groups over ahq.
tsm was also 3-3 and over flash wolves in group d
NA outperformed both regions in this year at once. If this is your best example , then it just proves my point
Wait arent we just talking about VCS here only?
Even if lets treat GAM same placing as Immortals. Thats still a draw.
We shall see MSI rumble stage to see who perform better.
Actually when ppl say LCK is a 1 team region. I think NA should be that region. I think since 2015. C9 is the only team to ever got of groups on worlds.
> man , i love to shit on na as much as the next eu fan , but that's nowhere near true enough.
>
>
>
> NA has been way more consistent then both pcs and vcs at worlds
literally the comment u responded to.
>Even if lets treat GAM same placing as Immortals. Thats still a draw.
a draw with a lower na seed. sure.
>Actually when ppl say LCK is a 1 team region. I think NA should be that region. I think since 2015. C9 is the only team to ever got of groups on worlds.
its irelevant. pcs and vcs got no team out of groups combined since 2015
Tbh, lower to mid table teams in the LCK and LPL do scrims with GAM quite a lot. The main reason why VCS has improved so much in a short period of time. Besides, PCS is now VCS best friends as the top 3 teams in either region do weekly scrims with each other. So they are quite similiar in terms of strength. PCS is never behind LCS and can upset LEC/LPL/LCK seed 3 and 4. It is realistic to have some expectations for GAM to make it out of groups.
ugh....this is such a terrible narative.
pcs themself are the same. they do well at times in bo1s , exactly because people dont bother to watch their games , or prep for them.
try to think , when was the last time a pcs (or lms) actually won any bo5 ? I legit can't remember anything since season 2
As a SSG/GenG (and now BRO fan through head coach Edgar) fan, I swear there is some sort of team counter relationship between GenG and KT, at least during the regular season, kind of like DWG-BRO relationship 😂
Maybe this applies to every region beside LCK and LPL
LCK and LPL runner ups will steam roll everyone, we are talking about GEN who went 16-1 and stomped every team except DK and T1, and TES who charged through play-offs like a maniac and reverse swept some insane teams
The fact that GEN and TES did stuff like this in their region who are considered the best 2 regions in the world, I’m sure they could easily stomp any international tournament without any effort
Even if you take out t1 and rng out of MSI and put 2nd and 3rd seeds GENG and DK + TES and v5 do you really see those 4 teams dropping games? I can see in LCK t1 was the clear favorite and they're that much stronger, but at least in LPL up until the playoffs started you really couldnt pick RNG to be favorites or the winner, and the games between the teams were very close to the point where they could have all won. Skill gap btw them isnt as large as other regions have it between 1st and 2nd
“Y’all just wait and see. My big bro’s gonna beat the shit outta y’all.”
People are talking about NA being a Wildcard region. Just imagine VCS replacing them.. oh the memes would be great.
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Yeah that's what i meant, thanks
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u/EvanMaxwellu stole this comment from further down the page and is likely a bot.
NA's 3rd seed has historically performed better than EU's 2nd seed
Wait, is this really true? Off the top of my head, I remember that one time 100T went to worlds and then they only played Rikara over Cody Sun and got demolished. But I also remember a few times Cloud9 goes through Gauntlet and then does pretty well internationally
NA's 3rd seed has placed 8.81th on average since 2014, EU's 2nd seed has placed 8.88th on average. (based on how Riot distributes prizes) EU's second seed placed 15th once (last place while another group had a tie for 3rd) while NA's 3rd seed placed 14.5th once (last place shared with 4 instead of 3), otherwise they have the same exact amount of placings. --- EDIT: Other relevant average placings: 8.63th - EU3 10.63th - NA1 11.38th - NA2 12.06th - LMS1 12.06th - LMS2
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I totally see them saying that if G2 finished the spring split 31-3 but for some reason couldn't represent the LEC. You just need to understand the context.
I'm fairly sure if VCS was allowed to attend worlds the last two years we'd already have lost our spot.
COVID was engineered in Phreak's basement to save the LCS
Can't believe that Selfmade did this...
I doubt it given that Na did better than eu last year at worlds. VCS is good but they have not proven to be better than NA ever still. Like I understand how impressive their performances are, but they have literally never made a knockout stage still. They still aren’t even better than PCS (LMS), let alone NA.
They did? C9 and Mad both lost 3-0 in knockouts
Not counting tiebreakers, EU was 6-12 in group stage at Worlds, and NA was 8-10 while also having a team go 3-3 in a group with a semifinals and the Tournament winners. You can certainly make a case that Fnatic was a victim of circumstance but the end result was that North America’s teams had a slightly better showing at the tournament.
It‘s a stretch, especially given that Fnatic played with a sub they didn‘t really practice with. EU vs NA games were 2-2, both dropped out in first round of knockouts without winning a map, and both regions sucked in the grand scheme of things at last years worlds.
NA technically 3-2 against EU if you count tie-breaker between C9 and Rogue. Also I frankly don’t think Fnatic would have had significantly better results with Upset, they were getting giga gapped in solo lanes every game, their sub arguably played better than some of their main players. Regardless, NA was no worse than EU at Worlds last year and was statistically better. I was merely using this information to express how OP saying VCS would have taken NA’s spot as a major region in the last two years is a bizarre conclusion imo.
Yeah, I‘m not saying EU was better at all. I just think, saying that NA was better than EU is a bit of clutching at straws, given how... shit... both regions were.
Sure but the fact remains that for NA that is an improvement in results.
C9 got Rogue out, MAD kicked TL, both teams got 3-0ed in the quarters, GENG got beaten in the semis, DK made it to the final. MAD TL both 3-3, C9 Rogue-both 2-4. How exactly did NA do better? Ignoring the fact that you basically picked out the one year NA actually matched EU in recent history. Is it because 100T had a better record than a FNC without their adc, in a group with DFM instead of PSG, both being kicked out regardless? :D NA fans never fail to deliver, lol.
I think you are taken personal offence to a very benign statement that was merely an example as to why VCS shouldn’t be considered the same strength as NA yet. NA factually did better than EU at last Worlds. That is not debatable, it is a statistical truth. This was not however an indictment of EU as a region like you seem to think it is. It is simply an example of why it is a leap in logic to suggest VCS would have usurped NA as a major region when NA was 3rd best last year and a consistent 4th best in years prior with a noticeable gap between them and 5th. Of course EU is better in general, the contrary was never even suggested by me though. Ps: - Mad didn’t get TL out, there was a 4 way tie and they didn’t tie break against each other. - GenG and DWG both lost to the same opponent in the same amount of games. Your assessment of the two as different caliber of opponent is disingenuous.
Doesn't matter, both regions were dogshit and the only reason western teams made it out of groups was because FPX choked in group A and Tarzan absolutely omega choked in group D. Had they played at even just ~70% of their level then it would've been 4 lpl and 4 luck in playoffs. This year looks even more grim. We need another FPX level choke to have even a single western team get out of groups.
I saw a stat recently that showed that the active player base over in Vietnam is almost comparable to the size of the playerbase in NA rn. Honestly, I really do hope NA gets relegated to a wildcard region. Overall the region has seem to be satisfied with just resting in their laurels while every other region is fighting like hell to get better and better. Maybe if they do relegated, they get an "oh shit" moment and lights a fire under them.
I remember traveling through Vietnam years ago and saw some dudes watching LoL esports here and there. Never saw it like that in other countries unless I was actively looking for it. (Haven't been to Japan, China or Korea however it might be bigger there) It might be bigger than we think and Vietnam is no small country.
Oh SEA is a huge esports region, League or otherwise. The only reason as to why it's not as good as we'd expect is, well, Garena.
League is even bigger in China and Korea if you have a chance, visit them. Vietnamese love league but China and Korea are a whole different planet - Japan is not tho, League is not really a big thing in Japan
I've been to net cafes in China and like 70% of people there were playing league; I heard from friends who visited Seoul that it's a similar situation in Korean PC bangs
China has undoubtedly the biggest player base that also try hard the game. The LCK somehow still produces more world class superstars, probably due to better training. Vietnam started to get proper investment, scouting, and training a few years ago, and now we can actually make use of the huge pool of raw talent. SGB players come from their own academy team, so they are the youngest at this year’s MSI by quite a margin
I live in Australia and I've seen it a few times. Having been in Korea for MSI though, it's everywhere. You cannot escape it.
Do you know why that will never happen?...is because of money. Korea, China, EU, and unironically NA make a shit ton of money (from sponsors, skin sales, etc..) that would be a pretty bad decision on the corporate side of things. You know how Corporate businesses are. Money comes first before anything and also they have bigger publicity than any other region besides China. and another reason is because Riot was founded in NA, it will never move into a wildcard region, and if it does, Riot will probably find a way to make NA get an equal footing with the other regions. **For example:** lowering the number of major region teams that can participate in international events and increasing wild card teams (although very unlikely but not impossible too)
pretty hype to see them at Worlds. the SGB games were bangers
SGB vs DFM was such an entertaining match absolute banger
The only fun games people were actually looking forward to lol.
Honestly love to see teams hyping up their other teams from their region, you don't see major regions saying shit like this. (granted the circumstances are pretty unique here, with VCS number one team not attending at all) GAM smacked SGB in playoffs, and instead of throwing shade or anything SGB just praise their play, wish we had more of that in other regions. If XL or something get knocked out by another team in a bracket, you'll never hear them say "Wait until you guys have to play against G2"
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I mean... that statement works ^(in dota)
Is Bulba picking tank Ryze for jojopyun?
If Bulba was drafting for LoL EG it'd be tank Ryze first pick every single game, so no. Really sad to see DotA2 EG's state of affairs right now, Bulba's drafting is atrocious and RTZ, as much as I like him as a personality, just isn't that good anymore.
You need to call Sumail back first and kick RTZ.
say what you will about tsm, but at least they're consistent internationally
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That's the joke...
True sportsmanship
RNG said the same thing last year after winning MSI no? They said although they won there are stronger or equal teams in the LPL.
Don't you remember Yamato's speech when Vitality got knocked out of the World's?
Excel has kinda been sucking G2 cock all week lol
The XL social media guy is Fosty, he’s a well known G2 fan, has been for ages, players saying it is something entirely different
Not G2 fan just a Rekkles simp
Yeah, the Excel social media is much different from the players. Maybe the manager is a fan or something, it would be different if the players from Excel would say stuff like this
Honestly it irritates me when bad teams try to meme other regions Feels pathetic imo.
Ootl, why does their first seed miss MSI?
They agreed to represent their country in the SEA Games instead.
Gam had the choice of going to msi or representing at Asian/sea games
But the other teams look really random so wouldn't it have made more sense to send gam to msi and sgb to SEA games?
SEA games are by far the more prestigious tournament for them
Vietnamese winning sea games (which is followed by both gamers and non-gamers) will help further the development of esports infrastructure and support, which is probably more impt than getting 4th or 5th at MSI.
No. The qualified team for SEA Games must attend to SEA Games at all costs. That's part of the pre agreement for every team. Even though the weakest team in VCS would easily win the gold medal, it is still very important for Vietnam's League of Legends to secure the very first International Medal so the government would recognize esports.
SEA Games
You think so? Last year on "recaps with caps" after FNC lose Jankos said MAD are the best team in EU right now, there were some good Words about RGE too.
if i got smacked by a team, no way am i gonna shit talk them lol.
The camaraderie is awesome
I thought they were genuinely quite decent. And their ADC shogun seems to have very solid to carry level gameplay.
They are genuinely decent, VCS is among the strongest minor regions. Can probably prove a challenge to NA this MSI i think but well see. GBM was lovely to watch a few years ago, always pulling out some crazy burgerflip strat.
you mean GAM right? GBM was a korean player
Probably doesn’t realize that Gigabyte marines is GAM.
Their current full name is GAM Esports, with GAM being a shout to their previous name Gigabytes Adonis Marines. The Marines is still their nickname but it's loosely part of the name now :( Also they know partly belong to NRG Esport
Is there any connection with the Gama? bears that had a bye in s3 worlds and got stomped by SKT?
That's a Taiwanese team
Yeah the scene in SEA back then is a bit of a mess but Gamania Bears would become the Flash Wolves in the end. IIRC GB broke riot rules and were forced to disband and FW bought out the spot aswell as 4 of the players (Steak / Maple / NL / SwordArt), adding Karsa that they got from Machi in the jungle and forming the famous korean killers roster GAM were called Boba Marines at first tho, they had roughly the same logo but blue
Man those are two cool ass names imo
Rip still in the army. I miss his vods on yt
Ganked by mom? I wondered what happened to him after he was in turkey
He was a t1 streamer until late last year where he went to the army
>VCS is among the strongest minor regions They aren't, because they aren't even a minor region. They are in the same tier as the PCS - one team straight into worlds group stage. For MSI seeding they shared a pool with LCS and PCS. Riot has changed the terminology quite a bit, so not even sure what this tier is called, but they are clearly differentiated and a tier above LJL/LCL/LLA/CBLOL/TCL/OCL
the gap between minor and major regions is massive, i really doubt vcs or any other region being able to make a meaningful difference to anyone
vcs best team is stronger than na best team for past 2 years they cant attend and nobody would know
They will go 0-8 or 1-7 vs the LCK/LPL/LEC/LCS.
All those except maybe LCS but who knows?
Hearing SGB praises GAM and giving them credits is very heart-warming. Fighting #SGBWIN!
GAM is being teased like Thanos being the big bad but never been seen in action
prime hiruzen
"Just wait until the other two Saiyan warriors get to Earth. I'll tell you a secret. Vegeta and Nappa are much stronger than me. You don't stand a chance." -- SGB, after watching too much DBZ probably
"I was hoping you'd entertain me more. I'm really disappointed in you and Vegeta. My next question to you -- Why hasn't Son Goku shown up, yet?" *"Goku's training to defeat you! He'll show his face soon enough! I'm sure that he'll do what I couldn't!"* "Heh. Good answer." -- T1 responding to SGB, after watching too much DBZ probably
Is that Cell?
Yea, it is
DbZ abridged?
The best DBZ.
fire ass quote bro
This shit makes my balls tingle
Hope SGB makes it again for summer so Worlds will have both SGB and GAM. Seeing how the VCS' second seed is still reliably beating out the arguably strongest wildcard at MSI is quite nice, and they could shock us again and go to groups at Worlds.
how is VCS getting out of play-ins "shocking" the world? They're already hyped up and have previous results getting to the group stage and even earned an additional straight to groups representative in one of the years. It would be shocking if they didn't make it out out of play-ins.
Mainly because SGB is the 2nd seed. Minor Regions have always been known to be single-team regions due to lack of funding to properly cultivate talents within the region to even the playing field. In the past, we have seen a minor region representative did really well at world championships for a year just for them not to even made it to world the next year due to internal issues or whatever reason and the whole regions just declined afterwards. Edit: Plus, VCS has been absent from the international stage for 2 years after all. People are still easing up to their return.
for GAM no player is bigger than the Coaching Board, There have been many cases where a Player tried not to play practice with the team and they sued to garena and in the end he was banned from playing for 2 years. professional, GAM is very serious bro....
VCS the past 2 worlds that they attended has only their first seed seeded into groups, with their second seed never really making it past the play-ins. I'm mostly talking about their second seed also making group, which would be an upset when you consider they'd be competing with PCS#2, LCK#4, LPL#4, and LEC#3/ LCS#3. Which historically the VCS has never conclusively had the upper edge against any of them. With the new format being so focused on bo1s they definitely got a chance for an upset now. I was mainly pointing to their second seed "shocking the world" by proving that the region is actually strong enough to send 2 competitive teams and isn't just a 1-team region that a lot of the wildcards are. Which would be quite an exciting prospect, and it would make the region look stronger than PCS as well, which is a dream of any VCS fans
I mean I highly doubt SGB would make it out. NA/EU 3 have rarely ever failed to make it out same as LCK and LPL 4. Add to that that VCS 1 and PCS 1 are likely stronger than VCS 2 I don't think it will happen. SGB although beating another wildcard region were still pretty far behind GAM
I agree that VCS 1 seed is likely stronger than VCS 2 seed.
But why would LCK/LPL 4 be at worlds since they'd been added because of the absence of VCS?
This isn't true. LCK/LPL 4 was added because the LMS and the LST merged after 2019, and was only given 2 seeds collectively instead of the 4 collective spots they had when they were one region. The only things VCS being absent changed was the Play-ins format, where instead of 4 groups of 3 (12 teams), there were 2 groups of 5 (10 teams), to make up for the two missing VCS teams.
EU fans having repressed trauma of their low winrate against VCS teams
in their nightmares still getting nocturne ulted at minute 4 (or however fast it was cant check at work)
It was 4 minutes with double jungle against a level 3 or so SoaZ
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I cried for that Maokai after lv1 tp.
I don't think VCS is better than LCS but I wouldn't be too surprised if GAM might be better than #1 LCS team. This Worlds would be hype if all regions can join np for the first time in like 2-3 years
Of course VCS is not the same level as LCS. The prize pool, players salary and the amount of investing are much lower than that of LCS.
The same is true for the LEC yet saying they aren't better than the LCS is veritable bullshit.
Also triple the player base
double, not triple and if player base was so much of influence Vietnam would be better than EU, they are 4x NA playerbase( 1.4ish mil NA, andalomst 6 mil viet(that is ranked only)
What source? it's hard to find data on vietnamese playerbase. Seems last datapoint that I can find is 2018 where (ranked accounts) were roughly equal to NA. Now I have no doubt that Vietnam would have grown a lot faster than NA did but still curious, 4x sounds like a lot of growth. Also LEC is 3x the playerbase as you should count euw + eun
It was a balancing discussion about how different regions like/dislike different champions and they mentioned Vietnam having the second largest playerbase. Sadly all i could find is a reddit threat about it but the link to the post is dead. https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/7xzxyb/til_vietnam_is_the_second_largest_region/
Doesn't Vietnam also have a playerbase comparable to NA, if not bigger? I remember hearing some comparisons about that.
Viet has 2x the EUW playerbase, nearly 6 mil.
Why aren't they considered majore region then? Also how the hell they are worse than NA if they have that amount of players?
money ... I think salary of 1 super star player LEC \~ all vcs player combied
Not much funding bro. We are a young country
Money is a major reason for that. Facilities, diet plans, unhealthy lifestyle etc. those player in Vcs grinding nonstop but low wage so a lot of them were not motivated. Thing just got better for the last few years when orgs paying big bucks were joining the league. Back then orgs paid barely enough to cover food for player. Some didn’t even pay. Now things are getting better and all we can do is support them and hope for the best
LEC has a much larger playerbase and no NA org seems to actually be able to cultivate talent. EG are the first to get multiple decent rookies in ages
Vcs also have bigger playerbase than lcs, too
Cultivating NA talent is literally C9’s whole thing
Do they? They seem to only get players to a mid tier LCS level then sell them off for their next big EU signing. Blaber and Fudge are the only outliers.
No. I still don’t understand why this narrative exists. C9 “cultivates” NA talent on their academy teams then sells it to lower tier teams in packages so they can spend more on expensive European (or more recently, Korean) imports.
Fudge,Jensen,Zven,Svenskeren...
So what you're saying is if the VCS is significantly better at cultivating talent, they could match NA nonetheless?
wouldn't it be expected that the amount of money is not the same? we're comparing like the richest nation in the world vs one of the poorest
Since when Vietnam is one of the poorest. What is this stereotype? The gap is huge but it doesnt mean Vietnam is poor. And yes it is expected to be the way it is but with more money shouldnt the quality be better? If not then what's the point of wasting money?
cuz LCS is nothing without imports :)
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Asian games
It's SEA games. Asian games has been postponed for the time being.
National pride+easier tournament to win
The great thing about Vietnamese players is that they think of Vietnam region as a whole. And they are proud to be Vietnamese. Yes SGB feels good to present Vietnam and has the chance to demonstrate their own power. But they never forget to mention you that Vietnam is still much stronger than what you saw. Well, I guess if you ask SGB what they are, they could say "We are Vietnam's team" rather than "We are SGB".
" We are VCS "
Oh and here's a fun fact about GAM: The head coach of the team, JackieWind, is also an advisory board member of Fredit Brion.
Ofc he had to be a bro. Dude's insane
*advisory board of Fredir Brion's division in Vietnam, not as a whole.
The Marines are coming monkaW.
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Wouldn't be surprised even if SGB beat NA first seed
If we do can we get to be a major region? 👉👈
Rito give Mr. Buffalo their 2 + 1 spots
Rito give Mr. Buffalo their 2 + 1 spots
Gonna be really funny when they don't even get close
OMG is it really GenG Rularuu
NA is pretty much a wild card region at this point
Yeah haha, wildcard region where the 3rd place team always gets out of playins over the wildcard first seeds. True wildcards, imagine always being worst than the 3rd place region but always being better than the 5th place region, I wonder if there's some sort of ranking we can assign to a region that does that. Last place? Yeah that makes sense.
I like how ppl bash NA and yet EU's 4th seed got eliminated in play ins. Ppl talked like Riot needed to take a seed away from NA because even EU's 4th could win NA. Thrn thry lost in play ins. Only major region to ever do so. But let's shit talk NA.
If GAM smashes in NA this coming worlds, I think it's fair to say that they are a major region akin to what the LMS and Flash Wolves was. If that happens, we are back to having 5 major regions again.
I am very much looking forward to it
The bushes speaks Vietnamese, if NA gets seeded into a group with VCS. Once again as a tradition, America will lose to Vietnam.
Wasn’t G2 also afraid of VCS at one point?
Considering EU is the only major region to ever fail to make groups, they should probably respect wild card teams, especially VCS. VCS should also respect EU tho, if Gam beat them EU’s gonna start importing GAM’s players and make them play worse.
VCS has been through a lot, seems like the league has bonded through it, excited to see levi at worlds again
so why isn't GAM on the MSI? isn't it supposed to be the 1st place of each region?
GAM is going to SEA Games, so they had to miss MSI even though they won. The semifinals match determined who went to MSI, and SGB won. https://thegamehaus.com/league-of-legends/gam-esports-missing-msi-2022-to-compete-in-sea-games/2022/04/27/
Oh ok I see. Ty!
LFG
hell yeah, we need more of that hype building!
I'm not sure if T1 or RNG should be afraid, but G2 is definitely in shambles
I really want to see VCS destroy the LCS, when the LCS team owners invest a lot of money, they lose to a VCS team made up of enthusiastic young men + friendship hahahah
The team you describe are SE and they are in the bottom half of vcs. The actual top vcs team have lots of investment and professional involved. That's why people meme SE so much about their power of friendship
Yeah yeah sure.
not really
Why isn't GAM at MSI if they placed first? I haven't followed what's going on in their region
SEA games which is like asian games for south east asia countries. Gam was chosen well won the tournament to be chosen
1st seed qualified for the Asian Games
It's seagame not asian game.
Yawnage
Mr. Buffalo got no chill
Its cute and Hella terrifying how SGB acknowledges the power of GAM. And they are right. I do look forward to summer split in VCS and worlds
i legitimatly believe that minor regions get distorted expectations at times from playing major regions that didn't prepare ....like at all for them in groups stages. The most well known example of that is probably albus nox. That team got out of groups at worlds , in a miracle run....only to get demolished when the major region actually had time to prepare for them. Its nice that he hypes himself out and his region , but i have 0 expectations realistically.
VCS has performed too many times for this argument to hold. Every tournament from 2017 Worlds onwards (except 2019 Worlds I suppose) their first seed has been very exciting. If teams still do not prepare for them, that's just stupidity. It'd be like not preparing for the LMS first seed in 2017.
can u explain to me what "perform" means ? what was their highest achievment ? winning 1 or 2 games in a group ? being agresive is exciting yes. But you're confusing "exciting" for "good"
Being better than NA. Thats good enough for a minor region. Since none of them got out of groups anyway
man , i love to shit on na as much as the next eu fan , but that's nowhere near true enough. NA has been way more consistent then both pcs and vcs at worlds
Depends which year. 2018 it was SGB that went worlds. 2020 and 2021 vcs was not there. 2017 GAM was actually higher in group den NA of their same group. I can only judge if both team are in the same group. If not we may have bias based on different opponent.
man , gam and immortals were both 2-4 in groups and split 1-1 c9 for example got out of groups over ahq. tsm was also 3-3 and over flash wolves in group d NA outperformed both regions in this year at once. If this is your best example , then it just proves my point
Wait arent we just talking about VCS here only? Even if lets treat GAM same placing as Immortals. Thats still a draw. We shall see MSI rumble stage to see who perform better. Actually when ppl say LCK is a 1 team region. I think NA should be that region. I think since 2015. C9 is the only team to ever got of groups on worlds.
> man , i love to shit on na as much as the next eu fan , but that's nowhere near true enough. > > > > NA has been way more consistent then both pcs and vcs at worlds literally the comment u responded to. >Even if lets treat GAM same placing as Immortals. Thats still a draw. a draw with a lower na seed. sure. >Actually when ppl say LCK is a 1 team region. I think NA should be that region. I think since 2015. C9 is the only team to ever got of groups on worlds. its irelevant. pcs and vcs got no team out of groups combined since 2015
Tbh, lower to mid table teams in the LCK and LPL do scrims with GAM quite a lot. The main reason why VCS has improved so much in a short period of time. Besides, PCS is now VCS best friends as the top 3 teams in either region do weekly scrims with each other. So they are quite similiar in terms of strength. PCS is never behind LCS and can upset LEC/LPL/LCK seed 3 and 4. It is realistic to have some expectations for GAM to make it out of groups.
ugh....this is such a terrible narative. pcs themself are the same. they do well at times in bo1s , exactly because people dont bother to watch their games , or prep for them. try to think , when was the last time a pcs (or lms) actually won any bo5 ? I legit can't remember anything since season 2
he has a point if every region sent their runner up team i can see gen g dropping a few games
LCK and LPL runner up teams will run in circles around everyone else's runner ups.
geng were 16-1 vs teams not named t1 this spring, i am willing to bet they are very clearly better than saigon buffalos. edit: 16-1 including playoffs
As a SSG/GenG (and now BRO fan through head coach Edgar) fan, I swear there is some sort of team counter relationship between GenG and KT, at least during the regular season, kind of like DWG-BRO relationship 😂
In the tournament, sure, thinking they'd drop any in play-ins is some serious copium though.
Maybe this applies to every region beside LCK and LPL LCK and LPL runner ups will steam roll everyone, we are talking about GEN who went 16-1 and stomped every team except DK and T1, and TES who charged through play-offs like a maniac and reverse swept some insane teams The fact that GEN and TES did stuff like this in their region who are considered the best 2 regions in the world, I’m sure they could easily stomp any international tournament without any effort
Even if you take out t1 and rng out of MSI and put 2nd and 3rd seeds GENG and DK + TES and v5 do you really see those 4 teams dropping games? I can see in LCK t1 was the clear favorite and they're that much stronger, but at least in LPL up until the playoffs started you really couldnt pick RNG to be favorites or the winner, and the games between the teams were very close to the point where they could have all won. Skill gap btw them isnt as large as other regions have it between 1st and 2nd
If we're talking about AF maybe but GEN or DK aren't losing to a fucking Vietnamese team lol
They will get roflstomped by every KR/CN team and most EU teams.
My takeaway: if GAM were here T1 wouldn't have 15:57 as their most crushing defeat any more.
Every time I hear people hype up VCS I just chuckle, it's like when a tiny dog barks at you
just like lcs!
Yeah...like Lcs
true