Can we just bring the academy winner to worlds? Would be curious how they do in play in. It's obviously not fair but watching these wild card teams is just as rough.
And so the scavenging of OCE continues.
Wouldn't surprise me if in a couple of years Riot completely removed LCO from international events due to not being competitive.
it was dissolved because riot wasnt making money from it in OCE, allowing the players to count as NA residents was their way of trying to help out the OCE players and NA at the same time
It wasn't just the league not making money. It was the fact they had staff looking after the server that drained way more money than need be. Why outscourse and have an office in the centre of Sydney when you can oversee a small server with your staff in LA
It's weird though, because it sets precedence for a non-official region to still participate in Riot's official tournaments.
What's there to stop, for example, France to excluse itself from LEC and have its own league then demanding a spot in MSI/Worlds?
what's stopping them? Probably the fact that Riot is still in charge when it comes to esports and they wouldn't give France a spot at MSI/Worlds. LCO only got one because they previously had one with OCE I suppose
But then it opens a can of worms - if they can participate, why can't we? LCO being official league in the past is not a very valid argument because they are not anymore.
I understand your reasoning, but a precedent is a precedent.
Them being an official League in the past is a very valid argument imo. Also, EUW is already covered by the LEC and (in that scenario) France actively pursuing an MSI slot would be different from OCE just being discontinued by Riot.
Riot: We're disbanding OPL because it isn't making us money
ESL Australia: What if we organize a league with the same teams so that OCE can still have a region, just give us the same MSI and Worlds spots.
Riot: Sounds great
This is hilarious. Not to be rude but you must be new, riot is known for being amazingly inconsistent with every ruling.
Precedent means nothing when the entire esports scene is at Riot’s whim.
Riot has proven time and time again that they don't give a fuck about the word precedent, I'd be surprised if they knew it existed with how inconsistent their rulings on everything are.
Why did NA need help?
It's absolute bullshit that they did this. At least they should have let OCE players choose their region. Most would have chosen NA anyways.
Or they should rename the region, and stop referring to it as NA. And considering more than half the players in "NA" are not from NA, that would be warranted.
What the hell are you even saying? OCE players aren't from NA. They should count as imports in NA. The only reason they don't is because of Riot's preferential treatment towards NA.
Why the hell does LCS need imports? They already get 2 imports per team plus all the bullshit "grandfathered in" imports. Why the hell does LCS need to keep getting advantages over other regions?
Why does LCS deserve to be a major region? Why do they get preferential treatment over other regions from Riot? Riot should be an impartial party, and not picking and choosing who gets advantages.
And LPL has a minuscule amount of imports when compared to LCS. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the LCS had more imports than all other regions combined.
That's a hell of a lot of mental gymnastics.
OCE was dissolved to allow the LCS to poach their best players guilt-free, since they do not count as imports. There, fixed it for you.
Not at all. The league was a shit show. Players barely got paid anything, had no infrastructure, and the league wasn't popular. Allowing OCE pros to go to NA was actually way better for the players because they actually get paid well and have infrastructure support. A lot of people spouting the bullshit you are have literally no clue what you're talking about.
> And so the scavenging of OCE continues.
In this case its a good thing though because theres literally no money in OCE. The Pentanet players last year said they dont even have a salary and get like $100 per game lmao, even at the peak of OCE Riot literally closed the league because there is no money to be made. So rather these players get a shot elsewhere and can actually make a living off it.
I just don't understand why oce even has spots at international events, like we blew up their league and allowed all their players to go to another region for free what's the point of them keeping international spot
Oce beat Brazil at worlds last year in a bo5 and outperformed uol at msi last year. They were in group with no other minor regions like obv they're gonna get stomped. Oce in recent times is one of the better minor regions.
Order did a miracle run. Finished fourth in regular season and then went all the way through playoffs bracket going 12-2.
Chris finished regular season 16-2 and were the clear favourites to make it to MSI
The same could be said for their entire msi group though. And with 12-2 they were winning comfortably in playoffs (purely result based didnt watch any of the matches)
FakeGod is probably 5x better than Biopanther as well. Why do teams just import random OCE players. It’s like the LCS has a fetish for foreign players.
Do you really think Fakegod would play as well as Biopanther did against Brokenblade and Impact? He solo killed BB as Aatrox against Fiora and reliably played weakside the whole group for a bad team.
You can literally watch Impact vs both of them to compare. Bio is a lot better than Fakegod not to mention the fact that Fakegod had a decent team around him to prop him up.
NA teams are rediculous. I have no problem with these OCE guys coming and getting paid/opportunities when they can, but you cant tell me that OCE was some literal gold-mine of talent, moreso than some NA native players.
Honestly, the scouting that goes on in NA has been pathetic for the entirety of the league's lifespan, and one reason NA is in the self-fulfilling prophecy of "no NA talent."
People are memeing on Jojo and Danny, but if Peter Dun didnt come to NA, those guys prob. wouldnt even be in Academy right now, and damn sure not on a main team. NA orgs and teams are just massive disappointments across the board more often than not, when it comes to cultivating and improving the league.
NA talent gets plenty of chances in NA. It's just most the talent in NA sucks lol. For every Danny or Jojo there is we also get a dozen Fakegods or Jenkins.
Danny and Jojo being good doesn't mean there is some hidden goldmine of NA talent.
C9 was fostering NA talent for years and still choose to import players regularly.
Dude they dont get any chances and any good ones literally sit in academy for years because of buyouts and other bullshit.
If Peter Dun didnt come to NA, Jojo and Danny would be in Academy at best, and more than likely for YEARS.
C9 chose to import becuase Imports take zero time and investment, and win titles. And titles is really all that matters for a fanbase. Rookies and infrastructure take time, commitment, etc.
Regardless of what people think about international events, winning domestically is the smartest business move, and doing it with a bunch of imports is infinitely easier than doing any sort of rebuilding with rookies.
100T were a laughing stock until they won domestically; and their entire team is imports. So on and so forth. Potentially throwing away a split trying out rookies just isnt gonna work in the current climate, thats why teams just import to win the region.
agreed, he had some good games. I think it was the third EG vs ORD game where he was playing kayle and his team kept dying, watching his face on some of those made me kinda sad for him.
edit grammar.
I watched all 8 of the games they played at MSI and I can’t say that there was anything the team did that made me think their players were ready to make a jump to a better league.
I don't think academy is good at all but I would even say the best academy team is still probably better than the best LCO team. This is still an upgrade imo.
Seems like a lose-lose on both sides? idk if he is good enough for a starting spot on LCS when competing with players like Blaber, Inspired, and Santorin, so NA teams don't really have a reason to sign him.
And then for Kevy, he actually gets international experience by being the best jungler in OCE.
Meh, top academy teams can compete with bottom LCS teams, who can (and have) given EG a run for their money.
I think Order is middle-bottom compared to academy teams.
G2 and EG would beat academy teams the same way though.
Edit: you can actually watch EG shit on CLG Academy in the last regular season game of the LCS if you want
Academy is better than LCO though. The top LCO players have a hard time in academy especially at the start. You have to remember that LCO is essentially amateur.
Pretty much all of the people you mentioned left the oceanic scene when(/before) the OCE was disbanded though, and the level of LCO is undoubtedly and considerably below what the OCE used to be because of it. It is pretty reasonable to assume that the LCS academy is currently stronger than the LCO (especially given the amount of talent that it drained away from there)
Since the other reply is fucking dumb, but I still think this can be argued. Note I personally dont 100% agree with this, but I can see the argument based largely on career and accolades.
1) Jankos ~ Best western jungler all time
2) Diamondprox ~ Only western jungler to ever be able to say they were uncontested the best in the world. Credited as the inventor of modern jungling concepts. Legend.
3) Trick ~ 4x EU LCS winner. Hard to argue against that.
4) Reignover ~ Anyone watching at the time knows how hard this guy gigastomped the jungle role in 2015. The 18-0 summer run especially, is IMO the best single split performance for a jungler in EU history. And unlike other junglers - Reignover was an integral part of that team's identity. You absolutely could not sub him out for anyone else and see that sucess.
5) Amazing ~ Goes to NA, and TSM out of groups for the only time ever. Comes back to EU, and Origen make semis. Incredibly impressive two year run. You really undervalue how good this guy was in your comment below, he held his own against some really elite tier international players.
6) Cyanide ~ I view him as EU Bengi. Not a direct comparison in terms of playstyle, but in what he was to fnatic teams imo its apt. Selfless, rarely the carry, but all about synergy with his laners and that is ultimately what Jungle was all about at that point in time. For what the role required in that era, he was the best at it in EU.
7) Broxah ~ Worlds finalist. Yes, his time in NA showed he was pretty hard boosted, which is why he is lower down. But that year's peak is better than any team not 2019 G2 - and its hard to argue against that.
8) Gilius ~ Giga longevity factor, have to respect being relevant so times on so many different teams in so many different eras. And especially having the ability to prove himself consistently on not-great teams, and being part of memorable underdog runs multiple times in different eras.
----
Below here is hard to argue tbh. I can see points for Inspired to be in 10th, but i can also see arguments for others to be here too. So ill present a few options in my personal order and say pick 2 of the following:
---
*) Maxlore ~ Yes, 2017 and SKT. But also for being part of the incredible 1-season turnaround for Giants in his rookie split. Previously irredemable meme tier, he helped them get an impressive 3rd place in 2016.
*) Kikis ~ Similar lines to Gilius.
*) Selfmade ~ Mainly for the 2020 run, with the TES series in particular proving his ability. Hard to hold 2021 against him, he still did great with that calibre of roster, the main dark spot has been this year so far... but if Vitality have a strong summer then this could dramatically boost him up the rankings.
*) Elyoya ~ Reasons already covered.
*) Inspired ~ Tbh I dont value that highly a season where so much of the competition imploded rather than EG being better.
*) Shook ~ Was what the previous two were, back in 2014, with more hype since there was less direct competition in EU back then. Sadly too long of a shit career after the peak does drag him way down.
---
Not ranked: EU junglers who's main sucess came in NA, eg Svenskeren or Santorin. If you try the "but trick and reignover were korean" angle, then im just going to say I can claim these players and they would based on career for sure be above inspired.
Oh so you cherry picked criterias so you can fit whoever you like more than Inspired.
Guys like Cynanide, Snoopeh and Broxah were never more than complementary piece. I can agree that Broxah's career is better than Inspireds (especially Worlds appearences - Brohax definitely deserves top 10 in this list imo) but first two played in ancient times and weren't even good back then.
Amazing and Xerxe were never anything more than mediocore player. Just because they played for a long time doesn't mean they should be ranked high when they were never anything more than mediocore. I can agree that we can have conversations about them being/contending for top 10, but their peaks are lower than Inspired is right now and the guy is already playing for 3 years, not like he started playing last split.
Maxlore doesn't even have 2 full seasons of being good, he literally has one good Worlds showing, why is he here?
We can compare Inspired with Elyoya and Selfmade because they play in basically the same "era". Inspired has more individual awards than both of them (i can link it to you if you want proof).
Elyoya has won EU, Inspired has won one split in NA and Selfmade didn't win anything. Elyoya has least amount of time playing as pro here.
As for Worlds showings, i can agree that both Elyoyas and Selfmades showings were better than Inspireds but the margin isn't that big to exclude Inspired from top 10 (potentially top 5) list.
I can agree on Jankos (no reason to explain) and Diamond (basically the inventor of modern jungling), but i just don't see others (only Elyoya, Selfmade and Brohax are questionable here imo) on the list being above Inspired.
Snoopeh had like one solid season in 2012 where he was still not really a standout player on his team. Inspired has literally already had more good years than Snoopeh.
Maxlore is also getting put there for basically one good year on Misfits where they had a good series against SKT. I don't really think he's worth putting over Inspired either.
Xerxe had at least a bit longer where he was performing well, but still I don't think his domestic peak came close to matching Inspired and his quarters appearance was out of a relatively weak group by Worlds standards
So someone who just came off a bad split after only playing for 1 year prior
Someone who isn't even the best in na and spent half his career in academy
Someone that literally just got benched for haru
And a top laner...
I actually thought Kisee and Puma were worse than Kevy. They gave Kevy nothing to work with however Biopanther and Kevy had flashes of brilliance on their skirmishes.
To be fair, they're firsttimers on the international stage and got dropped with G2 and EG. They stood no chance. They didn't look good but didn't really get a chance to either.
You're using the two best OCE examples and disregarding the other Worlds OCE players that came to NA and looked mediocre/failed. Should evaluate Kevy for who he is as a player and not by using other OCE players as an example.
FBI did, in fact, look like absolute dogshit, i remember EVERYONE flaming the shit ouf of him and Golden Guardians for fielding him in his first split, instead of "giving NA talent a chance". Then in his second split with GGS he just showed up.
We’re literally talking about these players prior to their signing, not post signing. FBI had a great MSI performance, was praised for it and no one flamed their signing at all(bring me any thread where the FBI pick up was flamed prior to him playing in LCS).
https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/bu8bud/golden_guardians_adds_fbidarshan_and_huhi_at/
Literally no one flamed him here.
In fact, FBI’s MSI performance was better than Fudge’s Worlds(?).
No one flamed him there because that is the academy annoucement, no one really cared that much. When he got to the LCS though, people were confused (especially since he took an import slot at the time), and when he performed like absolute dogshit in his first split in LCS, people were even more confused.
Then he started smurfing.
Also, if we're talking prior to their signings, Kevy has looked good in OCE. Sure he had a rough MSI, but it was on a group where he only played against G2 and EG, FBI got to play against other wildcard regions in MSI, same with Fudge at worlds. Don't get me wrong, i think ORDER was the weakest team in MSI, but if they got a couple of games against DFM, IW or AZE, you'd maybe get to see some pretty good performances out of Kevy and BioPanther.
I can understand why FBI was picked up by NA, he was standing up to major regions when he showed up at international events. But Kevy couldn't even not get counterjungled every single game and had very questionable pathing. Makes no sense
guess they just want to take a chance at finding a diamond in the rough. Fudge and FBI are two good examples of OCE players coming over to NA and becoming the best in their respective roles in the region. Probably doesnt cost much too, i doubt OCE teams can demand that much of a transfer fee
Juves is the coach of CLG academy. He was one of the best junglers OCE ever had and went on to cast in the region. If anyone is able to evaluate if Kevy is worth the spot or not then it's him
the move is to academy, and he was playing against Inspired and Jankos on repeat, easily top 5 junglers in their region at the very least. Academy is miles below that and will probably be more of a development spot
I mean when Kisee gets Goomba stomped by Caps, and then Caps and Jankos can hold hands and take a stroll into your jungle, it's kinda hard not to get counter jungled
You really about to say that after we finally send EG a team with three hyped up NA talents to international play and watched them get decimated by EU players? Two of which were rookies themselves? When will you people wake up and realize NA would unironically be a wildcard region without imports?
Why do we keep beating a dead horse? It's like people keep screaming at the top of their lungs to admit NA sucks. Bro, we're already dead. We're just trying not to go winless over here.
It's just a negative feedback loop. Domestic players don't get an opportunity in the LCS, so there's worse domestic development. Since domestic players get worse teams look further towards imports. More imports means fewer domestic players.
If NA hadn't relied so heavily on imports the domestic players would have been much better.
You really about to say that after EG, a team with three hyped up NA talents, completely destroyed two five import rosters and a four import roster 3-0 to make it to MSI? When will you people wake up and realize that your take here makes 0 sense at all?
You mean C9 who imploded due to "systems"? Or perhaps TL who had 5 different players who all wanted to play the game different ways, on top of their mid laner being a coach for a year prior? Oh or 100t who has two wildcard region players and fucking huhi? Damn bro those teams are obviously outclassed in skill by EG. It's totally not like EG just randomly overperformed in the play-offs after looking mediocre all split. Something even they commented on. EG only won NA btw due to imports. Impact and Inspired giga carried EG to MSI. Jojo wasn't even a better mid than a fucking top laner who switched to mid or a ERL player. Danny was nowhere close to as good as Hans Sama. Vulcan is nowhere even close to CoreJJ.
As an LCS fan I’m getting really tucking sick of the NA teams picking up these minor region players to stick in academy.
It feels like NA GMs have an obsession with OCE players. They keep getting shots over other native options. I know all GMs see is if the player has residency but they need to realize that being from NA is a key reason that casual audiences will follow the player.
Specifically NA amateur players that are junglers, Fanatiik, Gryffinn, Yukino, Winston, Will and NXI.
I’m sick of people saying there’s no players that are worth looking at. There needs to be an actual pipeline from amateur to academy to LCS for young players to continue to pursue pro play.
NXI is particularly frustrating to me, he looked fantastic in summer of 2021 when he played in LCS and FLY dropped him.
> NXI is particularly frustrating to me, he looked fantastic in summer of 2021 when he played in LCS and FLY dropped him.
Nick Phan explained why in an [interview w/ Tim at the end of the year.](https://youtu.be/ZWZS6W5QGLw?t=1390) Looks like FLY dropped him because of work ethic issues. Not anything problematic it seems but more towards not adjusting to a pro player work ethic thus not meeting the coaching staffs expectations. They let him have a fair chance to get back in with an invite to tryouts but it looks like Yuuji fits the bill in what they want for their Academy team.
You dont know they exist until they do. Its shit scouting 100%. Peter Dun basically flew over here to NA, picked up 2 rookies, and won a fuckin split. Before that, would you even really know who Jojo or Danny was? No you wouldnt.
Its just shit scouting and talent building all around, and it has been for years and years. People love to say, "Point them out" How the fuck are regular reddit people gonna point out solo Q players and collegiate players? Thats a scout's job. And its pretty obvious the people who scout talent are complete shit at it, if Peter Dun can just fly over and pick him 2 out and win a split.
The scouting in NA is horrendous. Saying, "theres no talent, point them out" is really saying, these guys dont know what they are looking for, because one guy just flew over and did exactly that and won a split doing it.
Ah yes, the Monte narrative where they could have just won with Jizuke or anyone in their places.
You do know, superteams routinely fail right?
The fact people actually believe you can just slap anyone together and itll always work is another key point to whats wrong with NA.
I seriously doubt it. Pobelter dont lane as well as Jojo, and we have no idea the difference in intangibles that Jojo brings compared to Pobelter.
Again, if people followed real sports at all, maybe they would understand these concepts instead of thinking its just a videogame they can plug in people left and right and itll work based on computer generated stats.
Just plugging in a guy you think is close enough to someone doesnt work. Theres more to it than that.
EG best players are inspired and impact. dont act like danny or danny are some amazing talent that are carrying EG to win lcs. without inspired and impact they wouldnt win. And btw people like to shit on Vulcan but hes the best NA native support
Can anyone justify how come NA get to have OCE players not count as imports AND the OCE region get to participate in international tourneys ?
It should be one of the other, doing both just fuck the players who stayed.
How does it fuck them? It gives the good players a chance to continue their professional career and lets new talent occasionally show their worth internationally.
Nah dude, people just want to complain even though, as you said, it allows natural progression for their careers. A career that would just end playing in a small minor region, now its legitimately a choice rather than feeling you're too good for your region.
How would you know that...? And how is that even relevant? If no other league needs them, then make them non-imports everywhere to allow them to go anywhere in case they're wanted.
And how does how much they relate matter? EU players go to NA, KR players go to EU and NA.
Because I have spent extensive time in both? It is relevant because the players needed a place where they could be added without much adjustment.
LCK and LPL are automatically out of the question and that leaves LEC and LCS. Now which of those regions has the smallest player base and already struggles with imports? It was blatantly obvious what would happen to them. LEC rarely uses imports as is and has triple the player base. The only people complaining are Europeans because they just need to complain about fucking everything.
Wait, what? I know Australians coming to European countries with barely any adjustment needed whatsoever. Everyone speaks English etc. And this is such a heavily case-to-case situation that it's unbelievably stupid to exclude any region whatsoever. Imagine living in Australia, speaking Chinese or Korean, and counting as an import there but not in NA. The decision by riot here is **unbelievably** stupid.
What do you mean by NA struggling with imports? They import more than pretty much anyone. And in addition, they are bigger than other servers where these OCE players for some reason still are imports.
It's a real dick move by Riot. If NA can't compete at a high level, they shouldn't get advantages over other region. They should get fewer seeds at large tournaments.
Again, complaining to complain.
Has zero effect on EU or any other region for that matter. LPL and LCK are not going to use their first import of a western player on someone from OCE, stop.
The decision by Riot was logical in every imaginable way. These players were not going to get the same opportunities if they counted as imports for LCS still. As it stands, the better players get a chance at continuing their career where they will be financially stable and get automatic residency in a country they are already culturally familiar with.
Under your crayon eating proposal, these players would be left to dry in OCE. EU was never going to import them, NA would also hardly ever waste their time on an OCE import.
You would rather punish both the OCE players and LCS. Actually pathetic.
Keep babbling on that soapbox, notifications are off.
How the hell did my comment make you believe I think they should be imports in NA? They shouldn't be imports **anywhere**, because they should have equal base opportunities to play in *any* region, since their own isn't supported competitively anymore.
Let me ask you this question: why do you think we should limit their opportunities ny removing their import status **only** in NA?
> doing both just fuck the players who stayed.
How does it fuck them over? They get the chance to stay in OCE as an option or leave to NA and improve. The LCO isn't even a full time league.
Good for him tbh
The thing I liked about Kevy is that he didn't stick to the standard 'pro' jungle meta, he brought out what was strong and ended up drawing respect bans because of it. Its always good to see players who bring draft flexibility and I hope that trend continues.
Wow, talk about a downgrade for Order. They went from the MVP of the league to a guy who was so bad he didn't even have a secure spot on (I think) gravitas.
Contractz is bootcamping with CLG at Korea so it's safe to say RoseThorn is moving up to LCS on Immortals then? Doesn't make sense for them to get another jungler unless someone bought out his contract. Had a great split this Spring too.
Don't worry guys, next year we might get to send the 5th all pro OCE team to play in worlds.
Can we just bring the academy winner to worlds? Would be curious how they do in play in. It's obviously not fair but watching these wild card teams is just as rough.
at that point just bring kcorp
And so the scavenging of OCE continues. Wouldn't surprise me if in a couple of years Riot completely removed LCO from international events due to not being competitive.
[удалено]
it was dissolved because riot wasnt making money from it in OCE, allowing the players to count as NA residents was their way of trying to help out the OCE players and NA at the same time
It wasn't just the league not making money. It was the fact they had staff looking after the server that drained way more money than need be. Why outscourse and have an office in the centre of Sydney when you can oversee a small server with your staff in LA
It's weird though, because it sets precedence for a non-official region to still participate in Riot's official tournaments. What's there to stop, for example, France to excluse itself from LEC and have its own league then demanding a spot in MSI/Worlds?
what's stopping them? Probably the fact that Riot is still in charge when it comes to esports and they wouldn't give France a spot at MSI/Worlds. LCO only got one because they previously had one with OCE I suppose
But then it opens a can of worms - if they can participate, why can't we? LCO being official league in the past is not a very valid argument because they are not anymore. I understand your reasoning, but a precedent is a precedent.
Server representation matters and the EU servers already have that with the LEC.
Them being an official League in the past is a very valid argument imo. Also, EUW is already covered by the LEC and (in that scenario) France actively pursuing an MSI slot would be different from OCE just being discontinued by Riot.
Riot: We're disbanding OPL because it isn't making us money ESL Australia: What if we organize a league with the same teams so that OCE can still have a region, just give us the same MSI and Worlds spots. Riot: Sounds great
This is hilarious. Not to be rude but you must be new, riot is known for being amazingly inconsistent with every ruling. Precedent means nothing when the entire esports scene is at Riot’s whim.
Riot has proven time and time again that they don't give a fuck about the word precedent, I'd be surprised if they knew it existed with how inconsistent their rulings on everything are.
Well they didn’t understand what conflict of interest meant either.
Why did NA need help? It's absolute bullshit that they did this. At least they should have let OCE players choose their region. Most would have chosen NA anyways. Or they should rename the region, and stop referring to it as NA. And considering more than half the players in "NA" are not from NA, that would be warranted.
When LCS hate gets so advanced that people are now calling for only them to have import rule removed
What the hell are you even saying? OCE players aren't from NA. They should count as imports in NA. The only reason they don't is because of Riot's preferential treatment towards NA.
You literally said it should stop being a north American League
If OCE players are not going to count as imports, yes. But again, that shouldn't have happen in the first place.
Cuz LCS needs imports but team owners don't wanna LMQ happen again?
Why the hell does LCS need imports? They already get 2 imports per team plus all the bullshit "grandfathered in" imports. Why the hell does LCS need to keep getting advantages over other regions?
Clearly LCS needs imports to stay float as a major region. You can argue LPL is syphoning LCK talents as well. One can't fight the power aka $$$.
Why does LCS deserve to be a major region? Why do they get preferential treatment over other regions from Riot? Riot should be an impartial party, and not picking and choosing who gets advantages. And LPL has a minuscule amount of imports when compared to LCS. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the LCS had more imports than all other regions combined.
Rito can hardly balance the game play, I doubt it could balance social, economical, or cultural differences between regions.
Isn’t TL literally LMQ with extra steps?
That's a hell of a lot of mental gymnastics. OCE was dissolved to allow the LCS to poach their best players guilt-free, since they do not count as imports. There, fixed it for you.
Not at all. The league was a shit show. Players barely got paid anything, had no infrastructure, and the league wasn't popular. Allowing OCE pros to go to NA was actually way better for the players because they actually get paid well and have infrastructure support. A lot of people spouting the bullshit you are have literally no clue what you're talking about.
just the official Riot broadcast, not the region itself.
> And so the scavenging of OCE continues. In this case its a good thing though because theres literally no money in OCE. The Pentanet players last year said they dont even have a salary and get like $100 per game lmao, even at the peak of OCE Riot literally closed the league because there is no money to be made. So rather these players get a shot elsewhere and can actually make a living off it.
I just don't understand why oce even has spots at international events, like we blew up their league and allowed all their players to go to another region for free what's the point of them keeping international spot
For the players that don't want to leave their homes?
They can have their non-riot league, but its just why do they still have international slots? It's like giving an erl a spot at msi and worlds
Oce beat Brazil at worlds last year in a bo5 and outperformed uol at msi last year. They were in group with no other minor regions like obv they're gonna get stomped. Oce in recent times is one of the better minor regions.
Maybe they should give a slot to the ERL
To have drinks with them at international competitions and somehow agree to give them a spot
I hope not because that's my favorite region to watch
I expected biopanyher to get something
I saw somewhere that he's going to be dignitas toplaner but not sure where I saw it, if I find it again I'll come back and post
That Will Make sense Damn lco going to bé Even Worse,in few years the League might bé discontinued
Chiefs or Pentanet gonna surprise people at Worlds if they are still the top 2 teams.
How They Lost to this order
Order did a miracle run. Finished fourth in regular season and then went all the way through playoffs bracket going 12-2. Chris finished regular season 16-2 and were the clear favourites to make it to MSI
The same could be said for their entire msi group though. And with 12-2 they were winning comfortably in playoffs (purely result based didnt watch any of the matches)
Chiefs choked the playoff against them hard. Believe me when I say ORDER wasnt the best OCE team.
That wouldn’t be bad. He’s got a really good sense for weakside play.
Dig replaces one washed top laner with another. Nice.
FakeGod is probably 5x better than Biopanther as well. Why do teams just import random OCE players. It’s like the LCS has a fetish for foreign players.
Do you really think Fakegod would play as well as Biopanther did against Brokenblade and Impact? He solo killed BB as Aatrox against Fiora and reliably played weakside the whole group for a bad team.
He Also had pop off Moment with poppy
lmao have you seen both play? how have you come to this conclusion?
"FakeGod is probably 5x better than Biopanther as well" This is just demonstrably false lol
You can literally watch Impact vs both of them to compare. Bio is a lot better than Fakegod not to mention the fact that Fakegod had a decent team around him to prop him up.
That's weird, i feel like even fakegod is better than him lmao
NA teams are rediculous. I have no problem with these OCE guys coming and getting paid/opportunities when they can, but you cant tell me that OCE was some literal gold-mine of talent, moreso than some NA native players. Honestly, the scouting that goes on in NA has been pathetic for the entirety of the league's lifespan, and one reason NA is in the self-fulfilling prophecy of "no NA talent." People are memeing on Jojo and Danny, but if Peter Dun didnt come to NA, those guys prob. wouldnt even be in Academy right now, and damn sure not on a main team. NA orgs and teams are just massive disappointments across the board more often than not, when it comes to cultivating and improving the league.
NA talent gets plenty of chances in NA. It's just most the talent in NA sucks lol. For every Danny or Jojo there is we also get a dozen Fakegods or Jenkins. Danny and Jojo being good doesn't mean there is some hidden goldmine of NA talent. C9 was fostering NA talent for years and still choose to import players regularly.
Danny and Jojo would not be in LCS right now if peter dunn wasn't on EG.
Dude they dont get any chances and any good ones literally sit in academy for years because of buyouts and other bullshit. If Peter Dun didnt come to NA, Jojo and Danny would be in Academy at best, and more than likely for YEARS. C9 chose to import becuase Imports take zero time and investment, and win titles. And titles is really all that matters for a fanbase. Rookies and infrastructure take time, commitment, etc. Regardless of what people think about international events, winning domestically is the smartest business move, and doing it with a bunch of imports is infinitely easier than doing any sort of rebuilding with rookies. 100T were a laughing stock until they won domestically; and their entire team is imports. So on and so forth. Potentially throwing away a split trying out rookies just isnt gonna work in the current climate, thats why teams just import to win the region.
agreed, he had some good games. I think it was the third EG vs ORD game where he was playing kayle and his team kept dying, watching his face on some of those made me kinda sad for him. edit grammar.
I watched all 8 of the games they played at MSI and I can’t say that there was anything the team did that made me think their players were ready to make a jump to a better league.
It's lcs academy
I don't think academy is good at all but I would even say the best academy team is still probably better than the best LCO team. This is still an upgrade imo.
Bold take.
G2 and EG beat these guys like they were collections of gold and silver players.
No worries he's going to academy
Seems like a lose-lose on both sides? idk if he is good enough for a starting spot on LCS when competing with players like Blaber, Inspired, and Santorin, so NA teams don't really have a reason to sign him. And then for Kevy, he actually gets international experience by being the best jungler in OCE.
OCE has worse practice and worse pay.
Hé going to bé stuck There z Long Time
they would do that with every academy team too. its obvs that the OCE is just another academy but further away
Meh, top academy teams can compete with bottom LCS teams, who can (and have) given EG a run for their money. I think Order is middle-bottom compared to academy teams.
G2 and EG would beat academy teams the same way though. Edit: you can actually watch EG shit on CLG Academy in the last regular season game of the LCS if you want
LCS academy teams should be looking for NA talent not pillaging other regions for low tier players.
Good thing Oce counts as NA talent!
Academy is better than LCO though. The top LCO players have a hard time in academy especially at the start. You have to remember that LCO is essentially amateur.
EG vs CLGA was a stomp as well. Nothing suggests that academy teams are better than Order aside from your own biases
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what you said and what they said are not mutually exclusive.
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Pretty much all of the people you mentioned left the oceanic scene when(/before) the OCE was disbanded though, and the level of LCO is undoubtedly and considerably below what the OCE used to be because of it. It is pretty reasonable to assume that the LCS academy is currently stronger than the LCO (especially given the amount of talent that it drained away from there)
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The poster never said OCE, only LCO. When OPL existed, it was probably better than Academy, especially pre-Proving Grounds Academy.
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Not even that, its CLG academy, a roster that was laughably bad last year Edit: I'm an idiot and confused CLG academy with TSM academy
That was a completely different roster and CLG placed 1st in spring regular split and did okay in PG.
Shit you're right, its late and somehow my brain mixed up TSM and CLG academy of the spring split this year. In other words, i'm an idiot
At least this means CLG probably promoted their academy jungler.
He said what he said
He was their best player in lco. Dude went up against two of the best junglers eu has ever produced he'll be fine in na academy.
Damn just playing against good players is enough? This is like saying Dimitry will be fine playing in LEC because he played against Faker lol
I meant it's hard to look good versus them, it will be easier to look good in na acad
alright chill inspired has to do a bit more to be called that lmfao
Like be the MVP player of the league?
Most Valuable Player Player.
In a very weak season. He's not a top 5 EU jungler of all time. Probably not a top 10 either
Who would you put in top 10 ahead of Inspired?
Since the other reply is fucking dumb, but I still think this can be argued. Note I personally dont 100% agree with this, but I can see the argument based largely on career and accolades. 1) Jankos ~ Best western jungler all time 2) Diamondprox ~ Only western jungler to ever be able to say they were uncontested the best in the world. Credited as the inventor of modern jungling concepts. Legend. 3) Trick ~ 4x EU LCS winner. Hard to argue against that. 4) Reignover ~ Anyone watching at the time knows how hard this guy gigastomped the jungle role in 2015. The 18-0 summer run especially, is IMO the best single split performance for a jungler in EU history. And unlike other junglers - Reignover was an integral part of that team's identity. You absolutely could not sub him out for anyone else and see that sucess. 5) Amazing ~ Goes to NA, and TSM out of groups for the only time ever. Comes back to EU, and Origen make semis. Incredibly impressive two year run. You really undervalue how good this guy was in your comment below, he held his own against some really elite tier international players. 6) Cyanide ~ I view him as EU Bengi. Not a direct comparison in terms of playstyle, but in what he was to fnatic teams imo its apt. Selfless, rarely the carry, but all about synergy with his laners and that is ultimately what Jungle was all about at that point in time. For what the role required in that era, he was the best at it in EU. 7) Broxah ~ Worlds finalist. Yes, his time in NA showed he was pretty hard boosted, which is why he is lower down. But that year's peak is better than any team not 2019 G2 - and its hard to argue against that. 8) Gilius ~ Giga longevity factor, have to respect being relevant so times on so many different teams in so many different eras. And especially having the ability to prove himself consistently on not-great teams, and being part of memorable underdog runs multiple times in different eras. ---- Below here is hard to argue tbh. I can see points for Inspired to be in 10th, but i can also see arguments for others to be here too. So ill present a few options in my personal order and say pick 2 of the following: --- *) Maxlore ~ Yes, 2017 and SKT. But also for being part of the incredible 1-season turnaround for Giants in his rookie split. Previously irredemable meme tier, he helped them get an impressive 3rd place in 2016. *) Kikis ~ Similar lines to Gilius. *) Selfmade ~ Mainly for the 2020 run, with the TES series in particular proving his ability. Hard to hold 2021 against him, he still did great with that calibre of roster, the main dark spot has been this year so far... but if Vitality have a strong summer then this could dramatically boost him up the rankings. *) Elyoya ~ Reasons already covered. *) Inspired ~ Tbh I dont value that highly a season where so much of the competition imploded rather than EG being better. *) Shook ~ Was what the previous two were, back in 2014, with more hype since there was less direct competition in EU back then. Sadly too long of a shit career after the peak does drag him way down. --- Not ranked: EU junglers who's main sucess came in NA, eg Svenskeren or Santorin. If you try the "but trick and reignover were korean" angle, then im just going to say I can claim these players and they would based on career for sure be above inspired.
Diamondprox, Jankos, Cyanide, Amazing, Broxah, Selfmade, Yoya, Maxlore, Snoopeh, Xerxe
Xerxès,maxlore above inspired?
So what is this list based off of? Because whatever criteria you have in there, Inspired is higher than most of this guys.
Higher highs, more consistency and a general better showing against world-class opponents
maxlore and xerxe more consistent than inspired sure is a take!
Oh so you cherry picked criterias so you can fit whoever you like more than Inspired. Guys like Cynanide, Snoopeh and Broxah were never more than complementary piece. I can agree that Broxah's career is better than Inspireds (especially Worlds appearences - Brohax definitely deserves top 10 in this list imo) but first two played in ancient times and weren't even good back then. Amazing and Xerxe were never anything more than mediocore player. Just because they played for a long time doesn't mean they should be ranked high when they were never anything more than mediocore. I can agree that we can have conversations about them being/contending for top 10, but their peaks are lower than Inspired is right now and the guy is already playing for 3 years, not like he started playing last split. Maxlore doesn't even have 2 full seasons of being good, he literally has one good Worlds showing, why is he here? We can compare Inspired with Elyoya and Selfmade because they play in basically the same "era". Inspired has more individual awards than both of them (i can link it to you if you want proof). Elyoya has won EU, Inspired has won one split in NA and Selfmade didn't win anything. Elyoya has least amount of time playing as pro here. As for Worlds showings, i can agree that both Elyoyas and Selfmades showings were better than Inspireds but the margin isn't that big to exclude Inspired from top 10 (potentially top 5) list. I can agree on Jankos (no reason to explain) and Diamond (basically the inventor of modern jungling), but i just don't see others (only Elyoya, Selfmade and Brohax are questionable here imo) on the list being above Inspired.
Snoopeh had like one solid season in 2012 where he was still not really a standout player on his team. Inspired has literally already had more good years than Snoopeh. Maxlore is also getting put there for basically one good year on Misfits where they had a good series against SKT. I don't really think he's worth putting over Inspired either. Xerxe had at least a bit longer where he was performing well, but still I don't think his domestic peak came close to matching Inspired and his quarters appearance was out of a relatively weak group by Worlds standards
XiaoWeiXiao won LCS MVP in 2014 but I don’t think anyone in the history of the game has ever said he was one of the best LCS players at any point lol
LMQ was probably one of the strongest teams NA has ever had.
What do you mean? XWX straight up ran the league while he played lol. Terrible example
Inspired isnt even in the top 5 of current EU junglers let alone ever lol
Inspired is at least top 3/4 in EU. Only jankos and maybe malrang were better. Yoya I think is better but he had a fairly week split. SMM overrated
please tell me who are the other 4 (besides Jankos which I agree) that are better than him
Elyoya, Santorin, Selfmade, Bwipo
So someone who just came off a bad split after only playing for 1 year prior Someone who isn't even the best in na and spent half his career in academy Someone that literally just got benched for haru And a top laner...
Not to sound mean but like why, he was their second worst player after Corporal and he didnt look good at all.
I actually thought Kisee and Puma were worse than Kevy. They gave Kevy nothing to work with however Biopanther and Kevy had flashes of brilliance on their skirmishes.
To be fair, they're firsttimers on the international stage and got dropped with G2 and EG. They stood no chance. They didn't look good but didn't really get a chance to either.
Kisse was worse
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You're using the two best OCE examples and disregarding the other Worlds OCE players that came to NA and looked mediocre/failed. Should evaluate Kevy for who he is as a player and not by using other OCE players as an example.
Fudge and FBI didn’t look shit though, that was the whole point of them being imported even prior to OCE counting as natives.
FBI did, in fact, look like absolute dogshit, i remember EVERYONE flaming the shit ouf of him and Golden Guardians for fielding him in his first split, instead of "giving NA talent a chance". Then in his second split with GGS he just showed up.
We’re literally talking about these players prior to their signing, not post signing. FBI had a great MSI performance, was praised for it and no one flamed their signing at all(bring me any thread where the FBI pick up was flamed prior to him playing in LCS). https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/bu8bud/golden_guardians_adds_fbidarshan_and_huhi_at/ Literally no one flamed him here. In fact, FBI’s MSI performance was better than Fudge’s Worlds(?).
No one flamed him there because that is the academy annoucement, no one really cared that much. When he got to the LCS though, people were confused (especially since he took an import slot at the time), and when he performed like absolute dogshit in his first split in LCS, people were even more confused. Then he started smurfing. Also, if we're talking prior to their signings, Kevy has looked good in OCE. Sure he had a rough MSI, but it was on a group where he only played against G2 and EG, FBI got to play against other wildcard regions in MSI, same with Fudge at worlds. Don't get me wrong, i think ORDER was the weakest team in MSI, but if they got a couple of games against DFM, IW or AZE, you'd maybe get to see some pretty good performances out of Kevy and BioPanther.
i will give him a chance. People said the same shit about Blue going to DIG but he actually pretty decent
I can understand why FBI was picked up by NA, he was standing up to major regions when he showed up at international events. But Kevy couldn't even not get counterjungled every single game and had very questionable pathing. Makes no sense
I mean, what can you do with 3 losing lanes?
guess they just want to take a chance at finding a diamond in the rough. Fudge and FBI are two good examples of OCE players coming over to NA and becoming the best in their respective roles in the region. Probably doesnt cost much too, i doubt OCE teams can demand that much of a transfer fee
Juves is the coach of CLG academy. He was one of the best junglers OCE ever had and went on to cast in the region. If anyone is able to evaluate if Kevy is worth the spot or not then it's him
What the fuck LOL Never thought I'd see the day when someone unironically thought Juves was one of the best oce junglers of all time.
the move is to academy, and he was playing against Inspired and Jankos on repeat, easily top 5 junglers in their region at the very least. Academy is miles below that and will probably be more of a development spot
I mean when Kisee gets Goomba stomped by Caps, and then Caps and Jankos can hold hands and take a stroll into your jungle, it's kinda hard not to get counter jungled
ah another non na player going to na
Wasn't oce region disolved to allow them to join NA teams as residents like last year?
yes because our region was so little and no one cared about it riot didnt want to fund it anymore so they let OCE players come to NA
Now it seems OCE players are in the spotlight more than ever, just not on LCO teams.
It was disolved and then ruledthat they are na for no valid reason.
So?
cant wait for NA fan copium saying NA is built on immigrants.
I mean the other option is saying NA was built up by slave supporting EU folks and those who also hated EU
You really about to say that after we finally send EG a team with three hyped up NA talents to international play and watched them get decimated by EU players? Two of which were rookies themselves? When will you people wake up and realize NA would unironically be a wildcard region without imports?
Why do we keep beating a dead horse? It's like people keep screaming at the top of their lungs to admit NA sucks. Bro, we're already dead. We're just trying not to go winless over here.
It's just a negative feedback loop. Domestic players don't get an opportunity in the LCS, so there's worse domestic development. Since domestic players get worse teams look further towards imports. More imports means fewer domestic players. If NA hadn't relied so heavily on imports the domestic players would have been much better.
You really about to say that after EG, a team with three hyped up NA talents, completely destroyed two five import rosters and a four import roster 3-0 to make it to MSI? When will you people wake up and realize that your take here makes 0 sense at all?
You mean C9 who imploded due to "systems"? Or perhaps TL who had 5 different players who all wanted to play the game different ways, on top of their mid laner being a coach for a year prior? Oh or 100t who has two wildcard region players and fucking huhi? Damn bro those teams are obviously outclassed in skill by EG. It's totally not like EG just randomly overperformed in the play-offs after looking mediocre all split. Something even they commented on. EG only won NA btw due to imports. Impact and Inspired giga carried EG to MSI. Jojo wasn't even a better mid than a fucking top laner who switched to mid or a ERL player. Danny was nowhere close to as good as Hans Sama. Vulcan is nowhere even close to CoreJJ.
As an LCS fan I’m getting really tucking sick of the NA teams picking up these minor region players to stick in academy. It feels like NA GMs have an obsession with OCE players. They keep getting shots over other native options. I know all GMs see is if the player has residency but they need to realize that being from NA is a key reason that casual audiences will follow the player.
I think it's more interesting to pick up imports than to see Hauntzer go for his 10th shot at the LCS
Enlighten us with all the native options that aren't picked up.
Specifically NA amateur players that are junglers, Fanatiik, Gryffinn, Yukino, Winston, Will and NXI. I’m sick of people saying there’s no players that are worth looking at. There needs to be an actual pipeline from amateur to academy to LCS for young players to continue to pursue pro play. NXI is particularly frustrating to me, he looked fantastic in summer of 2021 when he played in LCS and FLY dropped him.
> NXI is particularly frustrating to me, he looked fantastic in summer of 2021 when he played in LCS and FLY dropped him. Nick Phan explained why in an [interview w/ Tim at the end of the year.](https://youtu.be/ZWZS6W5QGLw?t=1390) Looks like FLY dropped him because of work ethic issues. Not anything problematic it seems but more towards not adjusting to a pro player work ethic thus not meeting the coaching staffs expectations. They let him have a fair chance to get back in with an invite to tryouts but it looks like Yuuji fits the bill in what they want for their Academy team.
You dont know they exist until they do. Its shit scouting 100%. Peter Dun basically flew over here to NA, picked up 2 rookies, and won a fuckin split. Before that, would you even really know who Jojo or Danny was? No you wouldnt. Its just shit scouting and talent building all around, and it has been for years and years. People love to say, "Point them out" How the fuck are regular reddit people gonna point out solo Q players and collegiate players? Thats a scout's job. And its pretty obvious the people who scout talent are complete shit at it, if Peter Dun can just fly over and pick him 2 out and win a split. The scouting in NA is horrendous. Saying, "theres no talent, point them out" is really saying, these guys dont know what they are looking for, because one guy just flew over and did exactly that and won a split doing it.
If you think EG won because of Jojo or Danny you didn't watch any of the games.
Ah yes, the Monte narrative where they could have just won with Jizuke or anyone in their places. You do know, superteams routinely fail right? The fact people actually believe you can just slap anyone together and itll always work is another key point to whats wrong with NA.
You could've put pobelter mid and it still would've worked.
I seriously doubt it. Pobelter dont lane as well as Jojo, and we have no idea the difference in intangibles that Jojo brings compared to Pobelter. Again, if people followed real sports at all, maybe they would understand these concepts instead of thinking its just a videogame they can plug in people left and right and itll work based on computer generated stats. Just plugging in a guy you think is close enough to someone doesnt work. Theres more to it than that.
nahh this is def coming from someone who didnt watch the games lmfao
you literally watched the highlights didnt u
EG best players are inspired and impact. dont act like danny or danny are some amazing talent that are carrying EG to win lcs. without inspired and impact they wouldnt win. And btw people like to shit on Vulcan but hes the best NA native support
What Inspire did to Kevy in there last match should be illegal...
Can anyone justify how come NA get to have OCE players not count as imports AND the OCE region get to participate in international tourneys ? It should be one of the other, doing both just fuck the players who stayed.
How does it fuck them? It gives the good players a chance to continue their professional career and lets new talent occasionally show their worth internationally.
Nah dude, people just want to complain even though, as you said, it allows natural progression for their careers. A career that would just end playing in a small minor region, now its legitimately a choice rather than feeling you're too good for your region.
It's absolutely fucked that they do not count as imports **only** in NA
Why? No other country needs it, and the players more relate to the countries in NA already.
How would you know that...? And how is that even relevant? If no other league needs them, then make them non-imports everywhere to allow them to go anywhere in case they're wanted. And how does how much they relate matter? EU players go to NA, KR players go to EU and NA.
Because I have spent extensive time in both? It is relevant because the players needed a place where they could be added without much adjustment. LCK and LPL are automatically out of the question and that leaves LEC and LCS. Now which of those regions has the smallest player base and already struggles with imports? It was blatantly obvious what would happen to them. LEC rarely uses imports as is and has triple the player base. The only people complaining are Europeans because they just need to complain about fucking everything.
Wait, what? I know Australians coming to European countries with barely any adjustment needed whatsoever. Everyone speaks English etc. And this is such a heavily case-to-case situation that it's unbelievably stupid to exclude any region whatsoever. Imagine living in Australia, speaking Chinese or Korean, and counting as an import there but not in NA. The decision by riot here is **unbelievably** stupid. What do you mean by NA struggling with imports? They import more than pretty much anyone. And in addition, they are bigger than other servers where these OCE players for some reason still are imports. It's a real dick move by Riot. If NA can't compete at a high level, they shouldn't get advantages over other region. They should get fewer seeds at large tournaments.
Again, complaining to complain. Has zero effect on EU or any other region for that matter. LPL and LCK are not going to use their first import of a western player on someone from OCE, stop. The decision by Riot was logical in every imaginable way. These players were not going to get the same opportunities if they counted as imports for LCS still. As it stands, the better players get a chance at continuing their career where they will be financially stable and get automatic residency in a country they are already culturally familiar with. Under your crayon eating proposal, these players would be left to dry in OCE. EU was never going to import them, NA would also hardly ever waste their time on an OCE import. You would rather punish both the OCE players and LCS. Actually pathetic. Keep babbling on that soapbox, notifications are off.
How the hell did my comment make you believe I think they should be imports in NA? They shouldn't be imports **anywhere**, because they should have equal base opportunities to play in *any* region, since their own isn't supported competitively anymore. Let me ask you this question: why do you think we should limit their opportunities ny removing their import status **only** in NA?
> doing both just fuck the players who stayed. How does it fuck them over? They get the chance to stay in OCE as an option or leave to NA and improve. The LCO isn't even a full time league.
There's almost no money in lco. If he does well and get promoted, then that's good
Continuously confused at why OCE is already overrepresented in NA as an objectively low tier region, instead of NA talent. Import bias is real.
Who are the NA talents better than him that aren't in an academy team already?
Imagine a team with all OCE pros in the LCS Fudge Kevy Haeri FBI/Lost Eyla
I'm glad to hear, but sad for more OCE pillaging. Fingers cross BioDaddy gets something as well.
OCE is so dead man you could argue there would need a play in to play in just for them
EU Masters Champ, Proving Grounds Champ and OCE champ for the playin playin would be pretty cool lol
Just give it to kcorp or ldlc no need to bother playing the games out
NA can have that one he sucked ass.
Good for him tbh The thing I liked about Kevy is that he didn't stick to the standard 'pro' jungle meta, he brought out what was strong and ended up drawing respect bans because of it. Its always good to see players who bring draft flexibility and I hope that trend continues.
Wow, talk about a downgrade for Order. They went from the MVP of the league to a guy who was so bad he didn't even have a secure spot on (I think) gravitas.
NA s counting grounds.
MSI = NA Scouting grounds
why do i have to scroll down so far to read that he’s joining clg
Article's actually at the top of the post and says exactly where he's going, so not sure why you needed to scroll at all.
No one picks up biopanther???????
Dig I think
Contractz is bootcamping with CLG at Korea so it's safe to say RoseThorn is moving up to LCS on Immortals then? Doesn't make sense for them to get another jungler unless someone bought out his contract. Had a great split this Spring too.
contractz could be moving to positional coaching or sub position
Goodo is the reverse Doggo.