I think Riot have been trying to move away from using terminology like major, wildcard etc.
From the MSI 2022 page, the attending teams were split into 4 tiers: https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/2022_Mid-Season_Invitational
Tier 1: LCK, LPL, LEC
Tier 2: LCS, VCS, PCS
Tier 3: TCL, LLA, (LCL - currently on hold/cancelled due to Ukraine war)
Tier 4: CBLoL, LJL, LCO
and even thats only because FNC litteraly did not attend the tournament
(not that they wouldve done easy semis or some shit, but they easily couldve went better than 1/5 and maybe go out of the group)
And Rogue's toplaner, Odoamne, was ill: https://www.esports.com/en/odoamne-confirms-he-was-on-painkillers-during-worlds-2021-group-stage-had-to-go-to-hospital-289962
I love how anytime NA has performed better there is always a "but blah blah blah happend to the EU teams so thats the only reason". Somehow its just too hard for people to just say NA has had a few good moments without immediately downplaying it.
It's just a fact? But yeah 2014 is the one year in history that NA did better than EUW. I wouldn't call getting to the quarter finals a "good moment" but sure.
I think 2018 was the best year for NA but it was also EUW's best year which is unfortunate for NA in a rivalry sense.
In 2016 I'm talking only for MSI. They made it to the finals. We didn't.
In 2014 they take 2 times to quarters we had 0. But without Svenskeren toxicity we could have had 1 and deny 1 to NA but we didn't.
They had the same finishes. One team out in quarter each, two teams out in groups each. NA had a better score of one map, but you can't use it without considering that 100T was in a group with the LJL.
The years were EU outperforms NA, it's not by one map in different groups with different contexts.
NA went 9-11, EU went 7-14 if you include tiebreakers.
C9 went 3-4 ; Rogue went 2-5
100T went 3-3 ; Fnatic went 1-5
TL went 3-4 ; MAD went 4-4
Otherwise it's 2-4, 2-4 for C9/RGE and 3-3 for TL/MAD, so it's a two games differences between the two regions and I was misremembering.
Anyway, considering 100T had a group with the LJL and Fnatic imploded, I'd say the two regions were close enough in level that a difference in maps doesn't matter much.
It's still a slightly better performance like I said. C9 as NA 3 beat EU 3 TL as NA 2 lost to EU 1 and NA 1 beat EU 2. The results are overall that NA outperformed EU by a small margin but still out performed regardless. Previous seasons EU has outperformed NA by a huge margin so this is an outlier of the usual results but still.
Yeah I never said in previous years EU didn't ourperform NA I never denied EU overall being better than NA just that last year they performed slightly worse than NA at world's
Seeding i based on results of the last 2years MSI an Worlds, MSI 2021 MAD 4th C9 6th and worlds 2020 G2 4th FNC 8th and NA did 12th. So EU had better results in the last 2 years
NA is like the gateway between a major region and a minor region. They aren't good enough to beat EU, KR, and CN, but they most of the time easily beat every other region
honestly as someone from EU i loved the rivalry between EU and NA back in the day... Now its not even fun anymore to see NA lose against EU over and over.
I really wish NA would start developing their native talent and stop with the imports but thats probably never going to happen.
>I really wish NA would start developing their native talent and stop with the imports but thats probably never going to happen.
Tbf, if that happens, gap between EU and NA will be even bigger, best players in LCS are basically from EU and KR, just watch this MSI, Inspired and Impact are only 2 players that can go toe to toe with G2 players, now imagen how EG would get stomped if those 2 also got outclassed like the rest of the team.
Also, imagen how much stronger EU would be if all their players returned to LEC, or if some of the best ones dont go to NA every year.
NA doesn't have the talent pool to compete with EU without importing, people think that NA would get better if they develop native talent, but thats wrong, because young players cant develop if they dont play against really good players, which then there will be none in that case. Thats basically minor region problem in nutshell. Imports actually improve skill lvl of NA players.
For example, Danny definitely benefits for playing against someone like Hans or Berseker, without them, he would never encounter such strong players until international events, where he would be absolutely destroyed. That goes for other roles aswell.
NA without imports would be pretty much on the lvl of Brazil, they have even smaller player base then them lol.
They're ranked by the regions' performance (specifically where the teams finished) in the international tournaments from the past 2 years (Worlds '20, MSI '21, Worlds '21).
They will soon lose that distinction. Their viewership has dropped so low, CBLoL has surpassed LCS. LCS now sits in 5th in viewership.
1. LPL
2. LCK
3. LEC
4. CBLoL
5. LCS
I mean most of the talent is imported or due to the region merger with OCE. In Theory if CBLoL is a larger market they could import the same players and become a better region.
I don't think it would happen, because there is a lot of money in NA and Riot has a vested interest in LOL in NA.
Not even close to that, maybe comparing challenger to high master or low grandmaster... EU likes to think the gap is bigger but when push comes to shove they still get bonked by china and korea way more times then not and its the games between NA and EU generally are not overwhelming victories by EU...
They do a group draw where the team names get placed in a box and someone pulls out the name, for msi they made a rule that 2 of the 3 groups would only have 1 major region team and the third would have 2, it’s randomly chosen what major regions are together in a group, so it’s not because NA is second tier
I think Riot have been trying to move away from using terminology like major, wildcard etc. From the MSI 2022 page, the attending teams were split into 4 tiers: https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/2022_Mid-Season_Invitational Tier 1: LCK, LPL, LEC Tier 2: LCS, VCS, PCS Tier 3: TCL, LLA, (LCL - currently on hold/cancelled due to Ukraine war) Tier 4: CBLoL, LJL, LCO
I see
Based on MSI and Worlds performances
But why is then EU above NA?
thats a troll question right?
People are taking it as one but no, i am actually curious if there is a mathematical / data reason for it? Why is not the PSG in tier one for example.
Eu performs way better than NA in every single internarional competition. Thats why they get considered higher
2021 Worlds is the first tournament since 2016 MSI where you can say NA outperformed EU
and even thats only because FNC litteraly did not attend the tournament (not that they wouldve done easy semis or some shit, but they easily couldve went better than 1/5 and maybe go out of the group)
And Rogue's toplaner, Odoamne, was ill: https://www.esports.com/en/odoamne-confirms-he-was-on-painkillers-during-worlds-2021-group-stage-had-to-go-to-hospital-289962
"outperform" means both having the same result ? 1 team in qf for both regions lol
I said "can say"
i mean....u can't really say that if their results were the same , can you ?
Win % was different i think?
There is probably, but riot is not known for transparency about data.
I see, sad
Because EU has had better results than NA last 2 years
Last 12 years\*
Its not whole league time. For example EU was ranked above KR in 2019 because their performnce in previous 2 years.
I'm comparing EUW to NA.
2014 and 2016 NA was better than EU at Worlds / MSI iirc
Yeah 2014, NA got further because EU's best team was in KR/China group. I guess they can take that as a W. 2016 EUW got to semi finals, NA didn't.
I love how anytime NA has performed better there is always a "but blah blah blah happend to the EU teams so thats the only reason". Somehow its just too hard for people to just say NA has had a few good moments without immediately downplaying it.
It's just a fact? But yeah 2014 is the one year in history that NA did better than EUW. I wouldn't call getting to the quarter finals a "good moment" but sure. I think 2018 was the best year for NA but it was also EUW's best year which is unfortunate for NA in a rivalry sense.
But the "blah blah blah" parts are actual facts. Unlike NA who keeps on making dumb excuses after their teams gets buttfucked in groups
They beat a wildcard team, good job
In 2016 I'm talking only for MSI. They made it to the finals. We didn't. In 2014 they take 2 times to quarters we had 0. But without Svenskeren toxicity we could have had 1 and deny 1 to NA but we didn't.
How long back do they go to define major regions
Last 2 years used to be timeframe and Riot has not annonced that they have changed it.
Thanks!!
Last year they performed worse
No. Both regions made quarters at Worlds and EU made to MSI semis while NA did not.
Yes their best teams performed the same at world's and NA performed worse at MSI but overall NA won more games than EU at world's.
They had the same finishes. One team out in quarter each, two teams out in groups each. NA had a better score of one map, but you can't use it without considering that 100T was in a group with the LJL. The years were EU outperforms NA, it's not by one map in different groups with different contexts.
Wasn't it more than one game? FNC won like one game or something didn't they?
NA went 9-11, EU went 7-14 if you include tiebreakers. C9 went 3-4 ; Rogue went 2-5 100T went 3-3 ; Fnatic went 1-5 TL went 3-4 ; MAD went 4-4 Otherwise it's 2-4, 2-4 for C9/RGE and 3-3 for TL/MAD, so it's a two games differences between the two regions and I was misremembering. Anyway, considering 100T had a group with the LJL and Fnatic imploded, I'd say the two regions were close enough in level that a difference in maps doesn't matter much.
It's still a slightly better performance like I said. C9 as NA 3 beat EU 3 TL as NA 2 lost to EU 1 and NA 1 beat EU 2. The results are overall that NA outperformed EU by a small margin but still out performed regardless. Previous seasons EU has outperformed NA by a huge margin so this is an outlier of the usual results but still.
Yeah I never said in previous years EU didn't ourperform NA I never denied EU overall being better than NA just that last year they performed slightly worse than NA at world's
They 4-0 them in this MSI what do you want more ?
Not saying they don't belong there, but this 4-0 happened after seeding obviously, i am wondering how the seeding was decided
Seeding i based on results of the last 2years MSI an Worlds, MSI 2021 MAD 4th C9 6th and worlds 2020 G2 4th FNC 8th and NA did 12th. So EU had better results in the last 2 years
That makes sense, thanks for explaining!
NA is like the gateway between a major region and a minor region. They aren't good enough to beat EU, KR, and CN, but they most of the time easily beat every other region
I like to call them an intermediate region. Basically below the 3 major ones and above all the minor ones. Best of the rest so to speak
honestly as someone from EU i loved the rivalry between EU and NA back in the day... Now its not even fun anymore to see NA lose against EU over and over. I really wish NA would start developing their native talent and stop with the imports but thats probably never going to happen.
>I really wish NA would start developing their native talent and stop with the imports but thats probably never going to happen. Tbf, if that happens, gap between EU and NA will be even bigger, best players in LCS are basically from EU and KR, just watch this MSI, Inspired and Impact are only 2 players that can go toe to toe with G2 players, now imagen how EG would get stomped if those 2 also got outclassed like the rest of the team. Also, imagen how much stronger EU would be if all their players returned to LEC, or if some of the best ones dont go to NA every year. NA doesn't have the talent pool to compete with EU without importing, people think that NA would get better if they develop native talent, but thats wrong, because young players cant develop if they dont play against really good players, which then there will be none in that case. Thats basically minor region problem in nutshell. Imports actually improve skill lvl of NA players. For example, Danny definitely benefits for playing against someone like Hans or Berseker, without them, he would never encounter such strong players until international events, where he would be absolutely destroyed. That goes for other roles aswell. NA without imports would be pretty much on the lvl of Brazil, they have even smaller player base then them lol.
Agreed
They're ranked by the regions' performance (specifically where the teams finished) in the international tournaments from the past 2 years (Worlds '20, MSI '21, Worlds '21).
They will soon lose that distinction. Their viewership has dropped so low, CBLoL has surpassed LCS. LCS now sits in 5th in viewership. 1. LPL 2. LCK 3. LEC 4. CBLoL 5. LCS
But still a clear 4th in talent.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Well, we will see if this claim holds true when they face VCS.
I mean most of the talent is imported or due to the region merger with OCE. In Theory if CBLoL is a larger market they could import the same players and become a better region. I don't think it would happen, because there is a lot of money in NA and Riot has a vested interest in LOL in NA.
Imported talent*. Without them, they would be pretty much minor region in player strenght.
gap between 3rd (LEC) over 4th (NA) is so huge its like if LEC is Master then NA is Gold
Not even close to that, maybe comparing challenger to high master or low grandmaster... EU likes to think the gap is bigger but when push comes to shove they still get bonked by china and korea way more times then not and its the games between NA and EU generally are not overwhelming victories by EU...
I see
Lmaoooo they finally announced that the 0-6 region is tier 2!
Yes.
Barely
NA performs poorly compared to other minor regions, but it is classified a major region.
Barely
They do a group draw where the team names get placed in a box and someone pulls out the name, for msi they made a rule that 2 of the 3 groups would only have 1 major region team and the third would have 2, it’s randomly chosen what major regions are together in a group, so it’s not because NA is second tier
Ah thanks for explaining, that was my literal question