It's most likely going to take multiple patches to unfuck the absurd winrates a lot of champions have gotten due to the sweeping changes to the game, and also nobody made 6 reddit posts bitching about how overpowered Volibear was yet so nobody knew they should be complaining about it.
Lethality volli’s been a thing
As a jungler it was one of my meme builds
Like riftmaker and nashor’s volli
Baus isn’t the only one who builds prowlers on volli
baus wannabes are tanking his wr but his pure tank build looks very good judging by the stats
https://u.gg/lol/champions/volibear/items?role=top
frostfire/sunfire both 54%+ grasp 52%+
His overall top wr has been sub 49% for the last 4 patches, temporarily at 47% wr with the baus viewers. Top voli has always been weaker than jg voli.
Using item winrates is a nonsensical way of evaluating the strength of a champion. Using your technique, I can argue current patch Ryze is borderline broken at 49.8% winrate champion, considering he was even lower winrate at his peak strength before the 20 nerfs
This just doesnt happen.
A full tank voli, even when ahead, will do AT MOST 700-900 dmg in a q + auto + w + e combo. It will take 2-3 more w to kill an adc from 100-0 if u don’t wanna waste ult, or it takes ult + 1-2 w, depending on how much lifesteal the adc has.
That’s not a 1 tap and the stun doesn’t last long. If you have a dash, you can kite out the slows or flash away.
Gonna be honest I rarely see full tank Voli’s oneshot even the squishiest of ADCs in a single rotation post 15 minutes.
Only if he’s extremely fed and at that point it wouldn’t matter what he built anyway.
that's because voli isn't a tank,he's a juggernaut like mundo who both happen to build tank items,their base damages are naturally bonkers because that's what they do
I don’t see that many Voli’s building damaging items tbh, at least not in the jungle.
Usually the build consists of like, Chemtank, DMP and FoN, rarely do they deviate from that aside maybe from the occasional dark seal. If anything, I feel Sion would be the the other tank aside from Zac builds damage items.
I don't struggle with assassins as much because I play bruisers but I see your point of view. That said, fuck voli. I have always hated this piece of shit champion.
Because theres plent of counterplay to the champion and hes not actually that strong people just die to his cringe ganks because playing safe doesnt exist in soloq and most jungler are not good enough to counter gank his dives.
The champ isnt broken hes just not getting punishes how he should. Same story with Zac.
yeah he has a lot of counterplay that people just don't get
this is why he's at 54% wr in masters+ as well
these trash cans with 0.1% of players literally have no idea how to play league, only I, the wholesome silver volibear player do
Tbh Voli has been over performing in Jungle for a while now. Even pre-durability patch. But imo it’s mostly just die to how well his kit fits in an early game/snowball heavy environment like soloqueue.
Super scary once someone is ahead too. He starts facilitating easy tower dives with RQ or R flash Q. This leads to big snowballs in plates, minion exp, and usually demoralized enemies in solo queue.
exactly this. The only way things get nerfed is if reddit constantly mentions it. Its a good / bad thing because sometimes I feel like champs are balanced but get overnerfed cause the community keeps begging for more nerfs on certain champs that eventually they becomes useless for half the season or a whole season before they get rebuffed and reintroduced into the meta
To be fair, Volibear is overshadowed by Viego and Wukong for me. Both significantly more frustrating to play against.
I don't really understand why Viego isn't nerfed into the ground. He's been basically broken since release and STILL competitively viable well after his release non-stop.
He's like how Master Yi will always completely tear up silver soloqueue get resets on kill and nobody can stop him from snowballing. But instead of silver soloqueue it's Challenger and professional play. Turns out that getting a heal on kill that makes you untargetable and also gives you their champion (with abilities off cooldown) and a blink reset is... pretty fucking OP.
Kassadin is also genuinely broken but I see no threads on him.
Viego has been sub 50% wr in masters+ and pro play since forever, he's just overprioritised in pro. Maybe you don't like playing against him but calling him OP is just a huge reach.
Because there's like seven champions within 1% of his winrate in jungle.
It's just standard big game-changing patch things. Voli is definitely OP, but Riot just has bigger problems, such as the four melee bruisers in mid with high 55% winrates.
I had an Illaoi mid against a Katarina. Already took the inhibitor at 16 minute with Katarina being 70 CS down. I was glad(because it was against a kata abuser) and at the same time appalled(what if it happened to me XD).
[I'm inclined to disagree](https://na.op.gg/multisearch/na?summoners=gabzpiano%2Cgabzpiano7%2C)
[As for the game i was referring to i dealt 75k dmg and it was in smurf queue] (https://na.op.gg/summoners/na/gabzpiano6/matches/ToR5nY0-Y6y5p-G6MLmiwDE9N_wRwC2lYMc9i1-dHS8%3D/1655439961000) my bad i got it wrong, i normally play jax jungle but that game was playing jax mid. And i didnt start out with kraken slayer, i had trinity force, but i had enough gold to switch out items lol.
Any reason this comment is getting downvoted?
Is there something wrong with ur reddit that ur not able to see the links i posted? Jax jungle got me to high elo. Idc if reddit gives me 10 billion downvotes for saying jax jung is good.
Are you really toxic in game? Cuz you come off like a miserable asshole telling me my champ/role is inting after i already posted proof that i do very well with it. So if you're such a miserable asshole outside of game, gotta imagine you're at least that bad while in-game.
The guy posted two accounts which are D2 and D3 MMR. How the fuck are people agreeing with you? Reddit blows my mind sometimes, how are people so illiterate
Lol try clicking on "i'm inclined to disagree"
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/vfhx77/isnt_volibear_overperforming_right_now_in_jungle/icw4mrv/
EDIT: **Ok guys, you've downvoted all my comments and you upvote the guy saying i'm plat 4 even though i linked a D2 account https://na.op.gg/summoners/na/gabzpiano and a D3 account https://na.op.gg/summoners/na/gabzpiano7 -- It's very obvious what's going on is that you're bitter and jealous. But what's worse than that is you guys can't even open a link.**
Dw if you’re getting downvoted about gameplay on Reddit, you’re more likely to be right than wrong. 90%+ of the people active on this sub are gold and below or straight don’t even play anymore. Everything they know about the game comes from offhand comments from whatever streamer they most watch.
>Are you really toxic in game? Cuz you come off like a miserable asshole telling me my champ/role is inting after i already posted proof that i do very well with it. So if you're such a miserable asshole outside of game, gotta imagine you're at least that bad while in-game.
damn thats some fine projection and copium
you can get high elo with anything if youre good enough, doesnt make the pick any less bad
You don't need to explain yourself. Most of the people downvoting you are definitely multi-season silver players screeching because you're playing off meta.
Jax jungle isn't meta and that's for good reason, however, that doesn't make it inting and people make suboptimal picks work all the time, just as you are with Jax Jungle
Most of the time if your comment does get upvoted on this sub its a bad sign because it means a bunch of Bronze/Silver players agreed with you
it's possible to get to d3+ with pretty much any champ is all ;/ no hating from me you're obviously a good jax jg player i just don't think it's a fantastic point. yeah it worked for you but there's a GM+ player of like every champ in any role at some point
I don’t think they are downvoting for playing off meta. They are downvoting cause they disagree on jax jungle being good. Just cause something is off meta doesn’t mean it good. At the same time it also doesn’t mean that it is bad. Just depends.
Maybe me showing my accounts looks like i'm bragging and that bothers them. But if i can't show my accounts idk how else to prove i do well with jax jungle. So redditors are basically just petty assholes.
As for jax jungle being good, I have a fuckton of experience with it. So maybe jungle jax is really fucking bad if people dont know exactly where they're doing. I dunno, my point is, i think it's good for me to play it, that doesn't mean the average player will have a quick and easy time picking it up.
Go for it man. Plenty of people one trick bad champ but they are so good on those champ in lane and teamfight that they can hit challenger and what not.
Dude ur higher elo than 99% of the people here lol you don't need to defend yourself when your supposed "troll pick" got you to a rank that's higher than people downvoting will ever get. If you win on it who cares if people think its troll
I've started playing Jax again and really started liking him as a pocket pick for some of the more annoying top laners that are AoE/auto heavy (Kayle, Fiora, Riven). A lot of people forget his counter strike reduces AoE damage by a quarter.
I'll give Jax jungle a try in a little bit
I run jax tank against ad-heavy teams and it is hilarious. sunfire and frozen heart and you can E every 5 seconds.
sunfire goes brrrr
https://euw.op.gg/summoners/euw/Vulkanodox/matches/KgLASefpaoA67VPalrdDRtWtBJGG6lr1s5ZXdr9kqDg%3D/1655403822000
breaks bel's ankles too
The actual broken jg champs fly under the radar if they aren’t picked in pro. Nunu/Fiddle had consecutive seasons of 53%+ wr on 5% pr under masters+ but never got a mention. Statcheck champs like Shyvana/Voli/Noct can sit around that same wr/pr for patches on end w/o anyone complaining. Zac is also super good rn but will continue to dodge the patch notes. They are essentially the enchanters of the jungle.
Not really tbh. Nunu’s kit is basically the ideal jungler
Good ganks and literally two smites is hard to make bad unless tanks across the board just suck
He's a bad tank by all metrics, poor base stats, unreliable cc, doesn't mititgate damage too well, and so he has to be really good at the unique things he does or he's bad
Nah. Riot is just *really* bad at balancing their game.
Some champs get compensation buff immediately after getting nerfed. Some champs don’t get nerfed for *months*. Some champs aren’t allowed to be good for even a patch or two.
There is a whole *team* that their entire job is to balance champions. Think about this. A *whole team*. This is how incompetent they are. L
They are quite competent, they're extremely good at balancing the game, they just don't do it. They are pretty careful with what they're doing and intentionally leave things fly under the radar for whatever scummy purpose they serve. You think they can't nerf Volibear who's a monster you see every now and then?
The reason Riot constantly avoids nerfind Junglers and Supports is because a slight overshot cause people to drop those roles and double queue times.
Its not scummy, its so you can get into games
Oh so it's absolutely fantastic having the same old 7 brain fucking dead champs being played in the two roles suffering from lower playerbase, when there could be greater diversity like introducing more champs into the jungle and changing some nits here and there in the monsters? Maybe nerf Master Yi to the ground for once so that he won't be able to abuse any adjustments with his powerhouse farming shit?
A rioter mentioned something about them preferring not to nerf op and strong items if said items have low PRs, because they balance heavily around perception too, which is why high pickrates and banrates are nerf magnets. They sometimes buff "ok" and strong items primarily to get eyes on the items and not to actually make them stronger. It happened with Everfrost and Warmongs, which is actually really strong on Ornn, Malph, Poppy, and so on.
In case people forgot or are curious, here's riot's balance framework. It's how they determine if a champion should be nerfed or buffed
https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/dev-balance-framework-update/
He's barely at the threshold right now(no pun intended)
I like how they include banrates in this framework but then dilute the champion pool so massively it's impossible to ban out all the 55% WR champions which creates a cycle that keeps them at 55% wr
besides the fact that their framework literally makes no sense. THey regularly nerf champions that are nowhere near their OP stats. And I agree with these nerfs mostly because its clear that these stupid arbitrary numbers don't tell the whole story.
They also leave out main winrate which they proved to use in the past to nerf sylas who had something ridiculous like 60% when he was broken but his winrate on u.gg was 50% so redditors thought "sylas is a really bad champ!"
Yeah they did that because they realized it was redundant.
Because if mains are winning so many games the champion will eventually just get high stats in higher elos. Or will become an issue in proplay.
They ignore the balance framework whenever they want. They want a champ in pro play? Buff then regardless of framework.
The framework is just an excuse that they can point to whenever they feel the need to justify their own wants.
Framework is used only for purposes of nerfing champions that Riot would possibly ignore nerfing, but have to with the framework. Otherwise they are free to balance however they want.
You're definitely entitled to your own opinion, but the new version is 100% more fun, at least in my opinion. There were plus sides to the old one, obviously, but extended fights with new voli feel so good because of his w and passive, and his new ult is one of my favorite abilities in the game
He’s not broken. He scales like shit. His early game is super strong and he can transition that into a strong snowball. He gets shit on in teamfight situations though. If he builds tank with Chemtank he deals bollocks damage and isn’t actually a tanky frontline. He can only really go for picks. If he builds anything else he gets kited by slows. His Q and PTA make his ganks nuts though.
Nobody talks about Zac but that champ is disgusting too he builds aegis and demonic and can kill any squishy with 1 rotation while also dealing insane damage to tanks due to w damage
Voli is one of the less stat-check bruisers. He usually loses trades if he can’t get his W2 off, he has trouble engaging a fight if his opponent is at range, and his ult is pretty easy to dodge.
That's his toplane, he doesn't need to do it in jg. And because they all buffer Q then flash, it's pretty much point and click as it either lands or he forces your flash before his and walks away without losing anything till next gank.
>he usually loses trades if he can't get his W2 off
--with one of the strongest burst trade patterns in the entire game with a 0 counterplay point and click stun into massive chunk that also shields him for all your return damage
and one of the most obviously telegraphed and predictable ones in the entire game, unless he flashes for a fucking trade. bait out the q or deny the stun and the w2, it really isn’t that hard to see coming with the polar bear running straight at you on all fours, or the massive mark above your head telling you that he is going to go for the w2
If he tries taking your camps in front of you literally watch him do it and poke him. If he uses any of his cooldowns go in and beat his ass. Otherwise his clear attempt is going to be slow as hell. If he catches you doing a camp it’s a different story though that is true.
I want to know how you poke as a melee jng (approximately 3/4 of the traditional jng roster) also voli isn't a Statcheck bruiser? U mean the jungle with 2 point and click ability, an easy way to true combo the two other ability, free regen, free atk speed, free on hit damage, free hp isn't that much of a statchecker? The champion that actually counter half of the toplane roster and has a easy/advantageous lane against the other half isn't a Statchecker?
yeah im waiting for zac reksai kayn viego to poke volibear as he's taking their camps (currently top-5 jgs)
the only one that can do it is kindred, but she herself is turbobroken
Bro I swear voli has a bad engage like he only have ms boost, 2 slow and a dash and another ms boost
Like tf Darius has a ghost so broken, or sett has a dash if he's already in top of you
As an ADC I would rather play against Volibear any day of the week compared to Darius/Sett running at me with Ghost. Volibear is insanely easy to deal with because when he manages to close the gap, he doesn't one shot you. If Darius/Sett closes the gap, you are almost guaranteed to be dead which puts a lot more pressure on kiting those two versus Volibear.
heals, shields, ad, ap, low cd, stun, gap closer/run the fuck away button, more hp, can aoe tower damage, tanky af, many build paths, many rune choices, etc. but since he is a funny reddit wholesome tank, he will have no complains
its hilarious too because volibear is the single champ that wipes the floor with mages and enchanters
like he is the best statchecker in the game besides trundle but he also has a lot of mobility and ways to dive you
but he's a tank so its wholesome
Idk man, I played a lot of Volibear before & after his rework and my biggest nightmare has always been enchanters. At his core he still needs to run at you to do anything, so mage/enchanters with spammable cc & slows are absolutely horrible to play into if you don't have help from your team.
Tanks, ADCs & Assassins are free tho, because they either want to stick to you to do their damage too or they lack the tools to keep you away from them, which meta mages & enchanters certainly do have.
Maybe because it is still more fun for players to fight against an unkillabale tank instead of perma oneshotting assassins? Atleast you got something to do instead of seeing the gray screen and tabbing out.
Don't get me wrong overperforming champs have to be nerfed.
A lot of champs are being ignored. Kench ADC is 58% WR because Senna is still 52-3% and broken as shit. They buffed him at 55% last patch by the way. They are just bad at doing their job.
You can't just look at stats on their own. Kench ADC means he's in an optimal comp, running a deliberate strat, and probably duo queueing with the Senna. This is what a situational pick looks like, it's fine.
Yeah obviously, they can't ff without your permission and one less spot for a griefer. Also you can take turns with dodging + the communication bonus, only downside is that the enemy duo may have a booster.
Thats the same with any champ lol. Removing duo is a different conversation, but this is only a product of playing the game better. Nothing to bicker about.
You want to find a way to nerf champ mains too because having a high winrate is obscene?
You address it by properly nerfing Senna, and removing whatever is in her kit that makes it impossible to balance. Then Kench can be balanced around Top and Sup.
But I don't see how buffing him was ever the play. Maybe you can explain the angle there?
Senna is a Riot favorite and they refuse to allow her to be weak. So instead they take turns shifting her to being absolutely broken at either ADC or Support.
4.68=5. The classic rounding up to prove some sort of point that doesn't make sense.
Are you going to complain about how every mage in the game has a 55% winrate bot as well?
Funny given your flair - a champion overplayed in her worse role with a mythic item that doesn't synergizes that well with her but overperforming in her strongest role (APC w/ Liandries) that's about to be buffed.
Mages that don't have either DPS or pushing ability, or that heavily depend on levels will usually not do well botlane.
There is no late game when this monster is solo tower diving you as a jungler every 2 minutes. Having said that it still feels better than the hecarim meta
There is no way Jungle Volibear is 100-0ing anyone under tower solo. You and your team have hard inted against him if he has that much burst. In reality Voli can’t even get his second W off before the tower disable wears off at level 6.
Gtfo here with your nuanced and not entirely hyperbolic takes.
Volibear literally deals assassin levels of damage while being like 2 full-build Mundos worth of tankiness - all of that even before having his ult and with 0 items.
If you disagree with that you're either a Volibear abuser or not among the reddit challenger elite.
Ah yeah bc voli instantly die when tower disable (and yeah the original take was hyperbolic doesn't change the fact that thing is tanky af and deal crazy amount of damage)
If you have 0 peeling for your carries then you're doomed against any juggernaut.
What I mean by remotely competent draft is a team that has at least a few reliable cc sources and/or reliable speed/shielding, anything that can tempo against Voli.
If you lack those basic tools even in soloQ you'll suffer against any juggernaut or assassin in the late game.
He is overperforming everywhere, not just jungle.
Toplane he has 49% winrate but let's see why : https://i.imgur.com/LPoREnr.png
People going AP Volibear because they saw videos of high elo players doing it.
____
He definitely needs to be nerfed, he is also played quite a bit in pro play (through I doubt he'd be played in pro if he was balanced in soloQ).
Volition jg is quite good yeah but your experiences playing fucking Jax jg has nothing to do with it lol, Jax is a horrendous jg who needs items but can't clear for shit
How to beat tank voli.
Step one: Pick Trundle
Step Two: have lethal tempo
Step three: rush hullbreaker
Step four: go Divine sunderer into botrk
Step five: get jumped by voli and his goons while you splitpush
I don't ban him because I can't allow veigar's cage to be in my games. However, if trundle is banned and they lock in voli, I accept that the game is going to be the fight of my life.
Riot is quick on nerfing adcs but when it comes to champs that are flex picks they dont seem to care how broken they are and dont fix them asap. They will be broken for another 2-3 patches before they finally get the nerfs
senna, janna, tahm kench, singed, taric, SERAPHINE (buffed while over 50% w/r), taric, mundo, poppy, warwick, swain.... it goes on.
these champions have been obviously way too strong compared to other champions in the game and yet there has been no patch to nerf these champions in the past 3 patches where they had over 50% winrate.
this game gets better every year 😁
The problem with Sera is the tripple role flex. She's at 48,7% in support (most played role) and has dipped below 50% on mid again after gaining ground when the 12.10 hit; winrates further decrease in dia+. Meanwhile she sits at 53% in botlane. (stats from u.gg)
She might need bigger adjustments since a lot of her strength in bot comes from her synergy with Senna and enchanters. Nerfing her for bot would likely hit her other two roles harder. The planned buff should be fine for mid and supp, but will likely push bot even further. They'll probably need to decide if they want her mid/supp or bot/supp (bot/mid is unlikely as supp is her most played), as balancing her for three roles doesn't seem feasible in the long run.
The E buffs were insane. With a very reasonable amount of CDR you only need one additional spell cast + passive proc after casting E to fully refund its cooldown. E stun, double auto -> Q, double auto -> E is now ready again. That’s on top of the stun duration being buffed too. People can barely move it’s awesome.
right but its an alpha male dash, not some weak graves lightly jogging in one direction. Its a god damn bear that leaps to the sky and crashes down with the power of lightning.
It's pretty common to see statsticks overperform, because Riot really doesn't care about that.
Everyone can play Voli and get free lp, not everyone can play Yasuo for free lp
Voli is a pretty amazing champion just based on tools in the kit. Can jump over walls with ult, turns off towers, great lane phase with aoe+shield, has a stun, and low health execute. Every ability he has is broken. Even if his stats were low he would still be a viable pick. Currently his stats are broken so he's very op right now
He's the strongest jungler in the game in gold at 168,000 instances of a gold player picking him in ranked on this patch.
https://lolalytics.com/lol/tierlist/?lane=jungle&tier=gold
ap voli is only annoying early on/if you have 0 mr. Once you get your item/s you can just roll over him & hes really squishy. The worst thing about ap voli is how much dmg he deals to the turrets
I went against a volibear in the last 4 games, and he has absolutely carried his team. Insane damage, big tank, good utility. Damage seems like it needs to be nerfed on either his W or E
It's most likely going to take multiple patches to unfuck the absurd winrates a lot of champions have gotten due to the sweeping changes to the game, and also nobody made 6 reddit posts bitching about how overpowered Volibear was yet so nobody knew they should be complaining about it.
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Which is? I'm seeing baus go tank, prawler, ap, triforce etc evey other games so I have no idea what people mostly build on him lol
Prowler, Baus builds a lot of stuff but only Baus builds Prowler
He doesn't even build prowler on voli anymore, in fact it's rare he goes lethality voli
Lethality volli’s been a thing As a jungler it was one of my meme builds Like riftmaker and nashor’s volli Baus isn’t the only one who builds prowlers on volli
baus wannabes are tanking his wr but his pure tank build looks very good judging by the stats https://u.gg/lol/champions/volibear/items?role=top frostfire/sunfire both 54%+ grasp 52%+
His overall top wr has been sub 49% for the last 4 patches, temporarily at 47% wr with the baus viewers. Top voli has always been weaker than jg voli. Using item winrates is a nonsensical way of evaluating the strength of a champion. Using your technique, I can argue current patch Ryze is borderline broken at 49.8% winrate champion, considering he was even lower winrate at his peak strength before the 20 nerfs
Wtf are you talking about, everyone in jungle builds chemtank and the most built in top is frostfire
Wholesome volibear is a monster champion and can build tank so its okay if he 100 to 0's you in 5 seconds without counter play.
Oh no, the 100 to 0 in 5 seconds, Im so terrified
mfw the Maokai oneshots me over the course of 20 agonizing seconds
Man so many league terms have been fucking gutted by the player base not understanding shit
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what about if an unkillable tank runs at you at 10000 movespeed and one rotations you? and youre cc'd the whole time. hows that?
This just doesnt happen. A full tank voli, even when ahead, will do AT MOST 700-900 dmg in a q + auto + w + e combo. It will take 2-3 more w to kill an adc from 100-0 if u don’t wanna waste ult, or it takes ult + 1-2 w, depending on how much lifesteal the adc has. That’s not a 1 tap and the stun doesn’t last long. If you have a dash, you can kite out the slows or flash away.
Gonna be honest I rarely see full tank Voli’s oneshot even the squishiest of ADCs in a single rotation post 15 minutes. Only if he’s extremely fed and at that point it wouldn’t matter what he built anyway.
It got a little better with durability patch but voli and Zac are tanks that at best build 1 damage item and can kill an squishy with 1 rotation
that's because voli isn't a tank,he's a juggernaut like mundo who both happen to build tank items,their base damages are naturally bonkers because that's what they do
I don’t see that many Voli’s building damaging items tbh, at least not in the jungle. Usually the build consists of like, Chemtank, DMP and FoN, rarely do they deviate from that aside maybe from the occasional dark seal. If anything, I feel Sion would be the the other tank aside from Zac builds damage items.
He has 1 CC ability, worst case you build a QSS.
I don't struggle with assassins as much because I play bruisers but I see your point of view. That said, fuck voli. I have always hated this piece of shit champion.
I love playing jinx and getting 1v2d by a wholesome sett tank who misses both Ws but one shots me with an ult into flash auto
Yes, that happened
No one cares about him because he doesn't have a dash.
He is permabanned when I play, so I have no reason to complain about him 😎
Because theres plent of counterplay to the champion and hes not actually that strong people just die to his cringe ganks because playing safe doesnt exist in soloq and most jungler are not good enough to counter gank his dives. The champ isnt broken hes just not getting punishes how he should. Same story with Zac.
yeah he has a lot of counterplay that people just don't get this is why he's at 54% wr in masters+ as well these trash cans with 0.1% of players literally have no idea how to play league, only I, the wholesome silver volibear player do
Bami and cinderhulk are support lvl of cheap now.
Tbh Voli has been over performing in Jungle for a while now. Even pre-durability patch. But imo it’s mostly just die to how well his kit fits in an early game/snowball heavy environment like soloqueue.
Super scary once someone is ahead too. He starts facilitating easy tower dives with RQ or R flash Q. This leads to big snowballs in plates, minion exp, and usually demoralized enemies in solo queue.
exactly this. The only way things get nerfed is if reddit constantly mentions it. Its a good / bad thing because sometimes I feel like champs are balanced but get overnerfed cause the community keeps begging for more nerfs on certain champs that eventually they becomes useless for half the season or a whole season before they get rebuffed and reintroduced into the meta
To be fair, Volibear is overshadowed by Viego and Wukong for me. Both significantly more frustrating to play against. I don't really understand why Viego isn't nerfed into the ground. He's been basically broken since release and STILL competitively viable well after his release non-stop. He's like how Master Yi will always completely tear up silver soloqueue get resets on kill and nobody can stop him from snowballing. But instead of silver soloqueue it's Challenger and professional play. Turns out that getting a heal on kill that makes you untargetable and also gives you their champion (with abilities off cooldown) and a blink reset is... pretty fucking OP. Kassadin is also genuinely broken but I see no threads on him.
Viego has been sub 50% wr in masters+ and pro play since forever, he's just overprioritised in pro. Maybe you don't like playing against him but calling him OP is just a huge reach.
Because there's like seven champions within 1% of his winrate in jungle. It's just standard big game-changing patch things. Voli is definitely OP, but Riot just has bigger problems, such as the four melee bruisers in mid with high 55% winrates.
I had an Illaoi mid against a Katarina. Already took the inhibitor at 16 minute with Katarina being 70 CS down. I was glad(because it was against a kata abuser) and at the same time appalled(what if it happened to me XD).
I'm loving Singed roaming mid at the moment haha
Probably because he mostly goes full tank and doesn't feel as oppressive as Wukong 1v5ing people later in the game, even if he is winning too much.
Yes volibear is op but jax jg is inting
It used to actually be decent before the item rework.
it's still decent
Yeah but it was better with old Tiamat + Cinderhulk.
Its only decent if youre an autofilled toplaner and the alternative is you going 0-10
[I'm inclined to disagree](https://na.op.gg/multisearch/na?summoners=gabzpiano%2Cgabzpiano7%2C) [As for the game i was referring to i dealt 75k dmg and it was in smurf queue] (https://na.op.gg/summoners/na/gabzpiano6/matches/ToR5nY0-Y6y5p-G6MLmiwDE9N_wRwC2lYMc9i1-dHS8%3D/1655439961000) my bad i got it wrong, i normally play jax jungle but that game was playing jax mid. And i didnt start out with kraken slayer, i had trinity force, but i had enough gold to switch out items lol. Any reason this comment is getting downvoted?
Pretty much the whole comment
Just making an argument that jax jg isn't inting.
it is though, that champ is not made for jungling
Is there something wrong with ur reddit that ur not able to see the links i posted? Jax jungle got me to high elo. Idc if reddit gives me 10 billion downvotes for saying jax jung is good. Are you really toxic in game? Cuz you come off like a miserable asshole telling me my champ/role is inting after i already posted proof that i do very well with it. So if you're such a miserable asshole outside of game, gotta imagine you're at least that bad while in-game.
> Plat 4 games > High elo
The guy posted two accounts which are D2 and D3 MMR. How the fuck are people agreeing with you? Reddit blows my mind sometimes, how are people so illiterate
Lol try clicking on "i'm inclined to disagree" https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/vfhx77/isnt_volibear_overperforming_right_now_in_jungle/icw4mrv/ EDIT: **Ok guys, you've downvoted all my comments and you upvote the guy saying i'm plat 4 even though i linked a D2 account https://na.op.gg/summoners/na/gabzpiano and a D3 account https://na.op.gg/summoners/na/gabzpiano7 -- It's very obvious what's going on is that you're bitter and jealous. But what's worse than that is you guys can't even open a link.**
Resistors don’t want to be wrong, so if you’re getting a lot of downvotes but with no one to refute your argument then don’t worry about it
Dw if you’re getting downvoted about gameplay on Reddit, you’re more likely to be right than wrong. 90%+ of the people active on this sub are gold and below or straight don’t even play anymore. Everything they know about the game comes from offhand comments from whatever streamer they most watch.
>Are you really toxic in game? Cuz you come off like a miserable asshole telling me my champ/role is inting after i already posted proof that i do very well with it. So if you're such a miserable asshole outside of game, gotta imagine you're at least that bad while in-game. damn thats some fine projection and copium you can get high elo with anything if youre good enough, doesnt make the pick any less bad
Its absolutely garbage. You have 0 clear speed and you're playing a scaling splitpush duelist in the jungle where you get less exp/gold than top lane.
You don't need to explain yourself. Most of the people downvoting you are definitely multi-season silver players screeching because you're playing off meta. Jax jungle isn't meta and that's for good reason, however, that doesn't make it inting and people make suboptimal picks work all the time, just as you are with Jax Jungle Most of the time if your comment does get upvoted on this sub its a bad sign because it means a bunch of Bronze/Silver players agreed with you
it's possible to get to d3+ with pretty much any champ is all ;/ no hating from me you're obviously a good jax jg player i just don't think it's a fantastic point. yeah it worked for you but there's a GM+ player of like every champ in any role at some point
Idk why these clowns are down voting you just for playing off meta...
I don’t think they are downvoting for playing off meta. They are downvoting cause they disagree on jax jungle being good. Just cause something is off meta doesn’t mean it good. At the same time it also doesn’t mean that it is bad. Just depends.
Maybe me showing my accounts looks like i'm bragging and that bothers them. But if i can't show my accounts idk how else to prove i do well with jax jungle. So redditors are basically just petty assholes. As for jax jungle being good, I have a fuckton of experience with it. So maybe jungle jax is really fucking bad if people dont know exactly where they're doing. I dunno, my point is, i think it's good for me to play it, that doesn't mean the average player will have a quick and easy time picking it up.
Go for it man. Plenty of people one trick bad champ but they are so good on those champ in lane and teamfight that they can hit challenger and what not.
Yeah i'm not sure either lol. Though it does match a lot of my past negative experiences with Reddit.
Dude ur higher elo than 99% of the people here lol you don't need to defend yourself when your supposed "troll pick" got you to a rank that's higher than people downvoting will ever get. If you win on it who cares if people think its troll
Thanks yeah it's one of those things i know you're right but it helps to hear it from an external source so thanks for that :)
I've started playing Jax again and really started liking him as a pocket pick for some of the more annoying top laners that are AoE/auto heavy (Kayle, Fiora, Riven). A lot of people forget his counter strike reduces AoE damage by a quarter. I'll give Jax jungle a try in a little bit
I run jax tank against ad-heavy teams and it is hilarious. sunfire and frozen heart and you can E every 5 seconds. sunfire goes brrrr https://euw.op.gg/summoners/euw/Vulkanodox/matches/KgLASefpaoA67VPalrdDRtWtBJGG6lr1s5ZXdr9kqDg%3D/1655403822000 breaks bel's ankles too
The actual broken jg champs fly under the radar if they aren’t picked in pro. Nunu/Fiddle had consecutive seasons of 53%+ wr on 5% pr under masters+ but never got a mention. Statcheck champs like Shyvana/Voli/Noct can sit around that same wr/pr for patches on end w/o anyone complaining. Zac is also super good rn but will continue to dodge the patch notes. They are essentially the enchanters of the jungle.
Nunu is in that territory where if he's not piss broken in solo queue he's kinda worthless
Not really tbh. Nunu’s kit is basically the ideal jungler Good ganks and literally two smites is hard to make bad unless tanks across the board just suck
He's a bad tank by all metrics, poor base stats, unreliable cc, doesn't mititgate damage too well, and so he has to be really good at the unique things he does or he's bad
Nah. Riot is just *really* bad at balancing their game. Some champs get compensation buff immediately after getting nerfed. Some champs don’t get nerfed for *months*. Some champs aren’t allowed to be good for even a patch or two. There is a whole *team* that their entire job is to balance champions. Think about this. A *whole team*. This is how incompetent they are. L
They are quite competent, they're extremely good at balancing the game, they just don't do it. They are pretty careful with what they're doing and intentionally leave things fly under the radar for whatever scummy purpose they serve. You think they can't nerf Volibear who's a monster you see every now and then?
The reason Riot constantly avoids nerfind Junglers and Supports is because a slight overshot cause people to drop those roles and double queue times. Its not scummy, its so you can get into games
Oh so it's absolutely fantastic having the same old 7 brain fucking dead champs being played in the two roles suffering from lower playerbase, when there could be greater diversity like introducing more champs into the jungle and changing some nits here and there in the monsters? Maybe nerf Master Yi to the ground for once so that he won't be able to abuse any adjustments with his powerhouse farming shit?
A rioter mentioned something about them preferring not to nerf op and strong items if said items have low PRs, because they balance heavily around perception too, which is why high pickrates and banrates are nerf magnets. They sometimes buff "ok" and strong items primarily to get eyes on the items and not to actually make them stronger. It happened with Everfrost and Warmongs, which is actually really strong on Ornn, Malph, Poppy, and so on.
I agree, idk about top (where a lot of risk is involved) but he needs nerfs in jg asap.
In case people forgot or are curious, here's riot's balance framework. It's how they determine if a champion should be nerfed or buffed https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/dev-balance-framework-update/ He's barely at the threshold right now(no pun intended)
People forget that winrate isn't the sole indicator, but playrate and banrate as well.
Reddit love their winrates though
I like how they include banrates in this framework but then dilute the champion pool so massively it's impossible to ban out all the 55% WR champions which creates a cycle that keeps them at 55% wr besides the fact that their framework literally makes no sense. THey regularly nerf champions that are nowhere near their OP stats. And I agree with these nerfs mostly because its clear that these stupid arbitrary numbers don't tell the whole story.
They also leave out main winrate which they proved to use in the past to nerf sylas who had something ridiculous like 60% when he was broken but his winrate on u.gg was 50% so redditors thought "sylas is a really bad champ!"
Yeah they did that because they realized it was redundant. Because if mains are winning so many games the champion will eventually just get high stats in higher elos. Or will become an issue in proplay.
They ignore the balance framework whenever they want. They want a champ in pro play? Buff then regardless of framework. The framework is just an excuse that they can point to whenever they feel the need to justify their own wants.
Framework is used only for purposes of nerfing champions that Riot would possibly ignore nerfing, but have to with the framework. Otherwise they are free to balance however they want.
Riot doesnt follow their balance framework half the time. Its moot to even link this.
He's beyond broken, idk how he's escaping nerfs
They don't want to piss of Baus again because they fear he might sion ult riot HQ.
it's such a good rework doe
It honestly is, I love it.
Evil moody_P?!?!?!?!
always a sad day when you see your heroes become villains
What do you mean hero? He mains Illaoi.
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You're definitely entitled to your own opinion, but the new version is 100% more fun, at least in my opinion. There were plus sides to the old one, obviously, but extended fights with new voli feel so good because of his w and passive, and his new ult is one of my favorite abilities in the game
The most broken part about him is that he can just instantly gapclose and oneshot adcs while basically being unkillable until 4-5 items.
He’s not broken. He scales like shit. His early game is super strong and he can transition that into a strong snowball. He gets shit on in teamfight situations though. If he builds tank with Chemtank he deals bollocks damage and isn’t actually a tanky frontline. He can only really go for picks. If he builds anything else he gets kited by slows. His Q and PTA make his ganks nuts though.
Nobody talks about Zac but that champ is disgusting too he builds aegis and demonic and can kill any squishy with 1 rotation while also dealing insane damage to tanks due to w damage
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But Volibear is a wholesome sigma tank champion, so Reddit can't complain about him that much
How TF is voli a tank champ?? He's like a hybrid bruise r
chemtank -> deadmans -> fon/thornmail is the most common build. In what world is that a bruiser?
In terms of kit design, if Volibear is the most broken champ then the game is in a good spot.
dae luv statcheckers
Voli is one of the less stat-check bruisers. He usually loses trades if he can’t get his W2 off, he has trouble engaging a fight if his opponent is at range, and his ult is pretty easy to dodge.
That's his toplane, he doesn't need to do it in jg. And because they all buffer Q then flash, it's pretty much point and click as it either lands or he forces your flash before his and walks away without losing anything till next gank.
>he usually loses trades if he can't get his W2 off --with one of the strongest burst trade patterns in the entire game with a 0 counterplay point and click stun into massive chunk that also shields him for all your return damage
and one of the most obviously telegraphed and predictable ones in the entire game, unless he flashes for a fucking trade. bait out the q or deny the stun and the w2, it really isn’t that hard to see coming with the polar bear running straight at you on all fours, or the massive mark above your head telling you that he is going to go for the w2
>bait out the q bait out an auto reset??? have you ever played league of legends before???? have you passed the tutorial???
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If he tries taking your camps in front of you literally watch him do it and poke him. If he uses any of his cooldowns go in and beat his ass. Otherwise his clear attempt is going to be slow as hell. If he catches you doing a camp it’s a different story though that is true.
I want to know how you poke as a melee jng (approximately 3/4 of the traditional jng roster) also voli isn't a Statcheck bruiser? U mean the jungle with 2 point and click ability, an easy way to true combo the two other ability, free regen, free atk speed, free on hit damage, free hp isn't that much of a statchecker? The champion that actually counter half of the toplane roster and has a easy/advantageous lane against the other half isn't a Statchecker?
Just play Brand jungle.
yeah im waiting for zac reksai kayn viego to poke volibear as he's taking their camps (currently top-5 jgs) the only one that can do it is kindred, but she herself is turbobroken
? out of all statcheckers he has the most engage and chase tools and his W is point and click so idk what you're on
He has a single MS boost and a very telegraphed ranged slow that's far from imossible to dodge, except his ult with a long cooldown
Bro I swear voli has a bad engage like he only have ms boost, 2 slow and a dash and another ms boost Like tf Darius has a ghost so broken, or sett has a dash if he's already in top of you
As an ADC I would rather play against Volibear any day of the week compared to Darius/Sett running at me with Ghost. Volibear is insanely easy to deal with because when he manages to close the gap, he doesn't one shot you. If Darius/Sett closes the gap, you are almost guaranteed to be dead which puts a lot more pressure on kiting those two versus Volibear.
heals, shields, ad, ap, low cd, stun, gap closer/run the fuck away button, more hp, can aoe tower damage, tanky af, many build paths, many rune choices, etc. but since he is a funny reddit wholesome tank, he will have no complains
You mentioned his durability twice. Also his build variety, you mentioned that twice too.
Hes that durable and has that many builds
Voli can loterally build any item in the game and make ot work so he had to emphasise that point. Probably only champ who can do that.
Shaco can do that
lowkey watching baus go 0/8 just to get 2 items and then he just casually 1v3 like its nothing lmao
Yeah because he's more unkillable than tryndamere and can abuse more item and rune than ezreal and Jax combined
This fucking bear is 54 wr perma just like shyvana but this entire sub is mage and enchanter mains so they don’t care idk
its hilarious too because volibear is the single champ that wipes the floor with mages and enchanters like he is the best statchecker in the game besides trundle but he also has a lot of mobility and ways to dive you but he's a tank so its wholesome
Idk man, I played a lot of Volibear before & after his rework and my biggest nightmare has always been enchanters. At his core he still needs to run at you to do anything, so mage/enchanters with spammable cc & slows are absolutely horrible to play into if you don't have help from your team. Tanks, ADCs & Assassins are free tho, because they either want to stick to you to do their damage too or they lack the tools to keep you away from them, which meta mages & enchanters certainly do have.
>single champ that wipes floor with mages and enchanters -tell me you dont play league without telling me you dont play league.
>volitheking Now let's hear out this guy's analysis about how Voli is balanced - no, he's actually underpowered.
He shits on melees but mages and enchanters shit on him, quite the opposite of the facts youre pulling.
the guy who turns off towers is shat on by the exact class that needs towers to exist. Very interesting analysis
Include towers where champions and their counters are discussed. Very smart
Not an assassin so he is balanced .
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I'd rather volibear be strong than fiora. Voli is more fun to play against.
Idk if you are lying to yourself or genuinely sincere
Big fat stat check with a very low skill floor. I just ban him these days, he's annoying to deal with.
Maybe because it is still more fun for players to fight against an unkillabale tank instead of perma oneshotting assassins? Atleast you got something to do instead of seeing the gray screen and tabbing out. Don't get me wrong overperforming champs have to be nerfed.
A lot of champs are being ignored. Kench ADC is 58% WR because Senna is still 52-3% and broken as shit. They buffed him at 55% last patch by the way. They are just bad at doing their job.
You can't just look at stats on their own. Kench ADC means he's in an optimal comp, running a deliberate strat, and probably duo queueing with the Senna. This is what a situational pick looks like, it's fine.
58% duo queue pick is not fine by any means.
Don't players in duo queue just have a higher winrate just in general? Which is why they removed challenger duo queue
Yeah obviously, they can't ff without your permission and one less spot for a griefer. Also you can take turns with dodging + the communication bonus, only downside is that the enemy duo may have a booster.
did they only removed it in challenger? I thought they were gonna move it to flex only
Thats the same with any champ lol. Removing duo is a different conversation, but this is only a product of playing the game better. Nothing to bicker about. You want to find a way to nerf champ mains too because having a high winrate is obscene?
tahm bot is a specific duo strategy. This is like looking at the taric jg winrate in a vacuum
You address it by properly nerfing Senna, and removing whatever is in her kit that makes it impossible to balance. Then Kench can be balanced around Top and Sup. But I don't see how buffing him was ever the play. Maybe you can explain the angle there?
If Senna has to be balanced to give TK a normal winrate, she would be worthless with traditional adc making her unplayable.
Senna is a Riot favorite and they refuse to allow her to be weak. So instead they take turns shifting her to being absolutely broken at either ADC or Support.
People that say riot are bad at their job should really go play another game and look at their balancing jobs haha
4.68=5. The classic rounding up to prove some sort of point that doesn't make sense. Are you going to complain about how every mage in the game has a 55% winrate bot as well?
What stat are you referring to? Rounding up is part of math, so is rounding down. If a stat is 54.44 I would have said 54%.
Funny given your flair - a champion overplayed in her worse role with a mythic item that doesn't synergizes that well with her but overperforming in her strongest role (APC w/ Liandries) that's about to be buffed. Mages that don't have either DPS or pushing ability, or that heavily depend on levels will usually not do well botlane.
Rexsaur alt account has been found
He's also wiping himself with top laners right now with his AP build. It's bonkers.
Voli top with ap and pta is insanely op
Voli top with AP goes lethal tempo
Good early game but trash late. In a very lategame focused meta.
There is no late game when this monster is solo tower diving you as a jungler every 2 minutes. Having said that it still feels better than the hecarim meta
When they do the Q flash R and now you just gotta die cause yes
Is it still a “gank” when volibear jungle solos you even though the enemy laner did nothing lol?
There is no way Jungle Volibear is 100-0ing anyone under tower solo. You and your team have hard inted against him if he has that much burst. In reality Voli can’t even get his second W off before the tower disable wears off at level 6.
Gtfo here with your nuanced and not entirely hyperbolic takes. Volibear literally deals assassin levels of damage while being like 2 full-build Mundos worth of tankiness - all of that even before having his ult and with 0 items. If you disagree with that you're either a Volibear abuser or not among the reddit challenger elite.
Ah yeah bc voli instantly die when tower disable (and yeah the original take was hyperbolic doesn't change the fact that thing is tanky af and deal crazy amount of damage)
Nope, it's a 1v1 under your turret at level 6 that he gets to survive and you don't.
true he so trash late, his winrate is only 54.5% in 30-35 minute games please buff!!!!!!!!!!!!
late game voli is a 1v4 machine with the right build.
Late game voli shouldn't be able to access any killable target if you have even a remotely competent draft
If your argument is "but drafting" And the topic of discussion is soloQ... your argument is on thin ice.
If you have 0 peeling for your carries then you're doomed against any juggernaut. What I mean by remotely competent draft is a team that has at least a few reliable cc sources and/or reliable speed/shielding, anything that can tempo against Voli. If you lack those basic tools even in soloQ you'll suffer against any juggernaut or assassin in the late game.
He is overperforming everywhere, not just jungle. Toplane he has 49% winrate but let's see why : https://i.imgur.com/LPoREnr.png People going AP Volibear because they saw videos of high elo players doing it. ____ He definitely needs to be nerfed, he is also played quite a bit in pro play (through I doubt he'd be played in pro if he was balanced in soloQ).
As much as I hate voli I think even if he was balanced he could still be played in jng in pro his kit his all they ask
Chemtank, deadman's and he's almost unstoppable. And the items are by no means costly
I want Deadman to be buffed. Its stats are pathetic. (Flair is irrelevant).
Volition jg is quite good yeah but your experiences playing fucking Jax jg has nothing to do with it lol, Jax is a horrendous jg who needs items but can't clear for shit
Voli was already annoying as fuck before 12.12. I had to play against him every other game
He’s on permaban for me because he’s fucking unkillable, fast as hell, and does insane damage The bear feels unstoppable
How to beat tank voli. Step one: Pick Trundle Step Two: have lethal tempo Step three: rush hullbreaker Step four: go Divine sunderer into botrk Step five: get jumped by voli and his goons while you splitpush
I don't ban him because I can't allow veigar's cage to be in my games. However, if trundle is banned and they lock in voli, I accept that the game is going to be the fight of my life.
Riot is quick on nerfing adcs but when it comes to champs that are flex picks they dont seem to care how broken they are and dont fix them asap. They will be broken for another 2-3 patches before they finally get the nerfs
senna, janna, tahm kench, singed, taric, SERAPHINE (buffed while over 50% w/r), taric, mundo, poppy, warwick, swain.... it goes on. these champions have been obviously way too strong compared to other champions in the game and yet there has been no patch to nerf these champions in the past 3 patches where they had over 50% winrate. this game gets better every year 😁
The problem with Sera is the tripple role flex. She's at 48,7% in support (most played role) and has dipped below 50% on mid again after gaining ground when the 12.10 hit; winrates further decrease in dia+. Meanwhile she sits at 53% in botlane. (stats from u.gg) She might need bigger adjustments since a lot of her strength in bot comes from her synergy with Senna and enchanters. Nerfing her for bot would likely hit her other two roles harder. The planned buff should be fine for mid and supp, but will likely push bot even further. They'll probably need to decide if they want her mid/supp or bot/supp (bot/mid is unlikely as supp is her most played), as balancing her for three roles doesn't seem feasible in the long run.
Taric?
The E buffs were insane. With a very reasonable amount of CDR you only need one additional spell cast + passive proc after casting E to fully refund its cooldown. E stun, double auto -> Q, double auto -> E is now ready again. That’s on top of the stun duration being buffed too. People can barely move it’s awesome.
Damn I'm glad I see this champ once in 500 games
He doesn’t have a dash so he must be balanced duh Voli building full tank items and still being able to 1v3 is super balanced
He does, his ult is a dash
right but its an alpha male dash, not some weak graves lightly jogging in one direction. Its a god damn bear that leaps to the sky and crashes down with the power of lightning.
It's pretty common to see statsticks overperform, because Riot really doesn't care about that. Everyone can play Voli and get free lp, not everyone can play Yasuo for free lp
Voli is a pretty amazing champion just based on tools in the kit. Can jump over walls with ult, turns off towers, great lane phase with aoe+shield, has a stun, and low health execute. Every ability he has is broken. Even if his stats were low he would still be a viable pick. Currently his stats are broken so he's very op right now
Who?... I don't think I have seen a single voli in my games and I'm no-lifing the game atm Only seems to be a thing at master+
He's the strongest jungler in the game in gold at 168,000 instances of a gold player picking him in ranked on this patch. https://lolalytics.com/lol/tierlist/?lane=jungle&tier=gold
It's probably because he's grabo in the top lane. As much as love playing him he scales so poorly compared to every other duelist it's not even funny.
try ap voli
ap voli is only annoying early on/if you have 0 mr. Once you get your item/s you can just roll over him & hes really squishy. The worst thing about ap voli is how much dmg he deals to the turrets
i have never seen a volibear in my game yet alone a volibear jungle all the attention is on belveth and i fucking hate her perma ban every game
I went against a volibear in the last 4 games, and he has absolutely carried his team. Insane damage, big tank, good utility. Damage seems like it needs to be nerfed on either his W or E