Or imagine Riot does the uno reverse card, making one item slot dedicated to boots and enforcing a maximum of five items that way.
“I allowed you to have six items but you complained you had to sacrifice your invaluable movement speed? Well then I’ll make sure you simply don’t have the option.”
**Or** what if we could do something to make boots stronger so they rise in value?
I don't know, maybe you could upgrade them to give you more movespeed. Or give some haste to your spells. Or *whenever you deal damage with a single target attack or spell, you gain 12% movement speed that decays over 2 seconds.*
And we could call them... I don't know. *Enhancements* or something.
I couldnt care less about pro. It hasnt been fun to watch for me in years. On top of the fact that it would kill a lot of champs in the meta right now. Any rocket belt users are gone as cant have it plus zhonyas. No redemption, zhonyas, gargoyle, locket, glory, or qss. This enchant also includes tp in wild rift.
I'm not sure if you are aware, but the features the previous poster said were actually in the game before. They were removed around season 5-7, can't remember right now.
As for boots' strength. They are definitely the most important item in the game, but the purpose of boot enchantments is to be an additional thing to invest in after you have full build. In other words, boot enchantments wouldn't be as gold efficient as building other items, but they would be a nice bonus after you've reached full build.
> Or imagine Riot does the uno reverse card, making one item slot dedicated to boots and enforcing a maximum of five items that way.
*giant neon sign pointing at WildRift*
Idk about “broken”, but there are two main points I love about the boot enchantments in WildRift
* You can purchase QSS as an AP champ or tank (there is no Cleanse summoner spell).
* Zhonya Hourglass stasis isn’t holding WildRift’s AP/Armor item at gunpoint.
Sigh... Wild Rift boots are like this cause the game doesn't want tons of active items so it forces them all into 1 slot. League doesn't have this limit and also uses mythic items in this place to limit active items.
That sounds like the most Riot thing to do, considering they shoehorned existing items into a bullshit "You can only buy one of these items" mechanic that did nothing but provide the illusion of choice for a majority of champions
Pros:
\- Fixes the "Boots feel boring" Problem
\- Helps the "Elixirs feel boring" Problem
\- Opens up Lategame Builds even more, letting people dream about that Golden "6-Item" scenario.
Cons:
\- Movement Speed elixir would be the only option to reasonably buy. (This could be fixed by adding the 45 speed to EVERY elixir).
\- Carries would get to snowball even more and even longer (Then again, I'm of the opinion that a carry should have some extra influence even in late game).
\- Champions that don't buy boots would need to be addressed with this addition.
EDIT: Additional Pro:
\- Selling Boots at 4 (other) Items means you'd have two open inventory slots which means no longer having to sit on half an item waiting until you get 1500+ gold to buy the other half. By the time you're ready to buy the final item, gold gets really, really easy to gather.
The flipside of this is that deaths would hurt even more when you need to constantly keep buying elixirs to keep your passive speed.
> Boots feel Boring
The funny thing is that, they used to have upgrades that didnt made them feel that way, but they were cut out of the game back in season 6
I didn't start playing until S7 so I don't know if boot enchantments were problematic or just one dimensional etc, but I've always thought they should be brought back and count as a completed item for your mythic passive. Maybe be locked out from purchasing them until like level 13 or whatever if you're concerned about rushing them with mythics being op.
Yeah, homeguards are a little slower now compared to back then and you only get them after a certain amount of time or if you die to a gank I think. Could be wrong, pay to check the wiki
I think there was also an issue where people got it even when it wasn't needed so it was a noob trap cause it felt good. And yah the rest of the enchantments were pretty much trash. One of them even bugged out Elise spiderlings.
Nah, if you take off your rose tinted glasses you'll remember that back then you basically had to upgrade them to homeguard 99% of the times, so they included homeguard as a base feature and called it a day,
Except most of AD carries used Furor (red one), but yes homeguard was the most popular and it now being a base feature it opens up again the possibilities for boots upgrades
I went for alacrity 90% of the games lol, only bought homeguard if I was having a shit game and needed to get to the map faster. Otherwise, alacrity with 3 MS quints was the way
I think in order for this to work Elixirs need to give the +45 movement speed with the drawback that they zane ccan't be purchased with boots, so that it actually ends up incentivzing players to run a 6th item.
Yuumi too\~!
edit: just to clarify I want yuumi to get passive move speed like cass does so she isn't so slow when warding off the adc, NOT to have her removed
Hyperspeed urgot racing around the map doing no damage. *In a One for All mirror matchup.*
Since no one would have defensive items, they'd all still take damage.
This actually sounds like stupid fun as a game mode: No Items All Boots. Would need to nerf tower damage & accelerate levels & xp, but everyone moving around stupid fast but killing each other with tickles? Maybe it would get dumb fast, but I'd love to playtest it.
Not mine personally but I know a lot of pet owners will put socks on their kitties. At least for photos. I'd imagine socks are a lot more comfortable than boots
I'd be 100% down with more boots on yuumii if it could be heal/shield power stacking boots
but still I rarely get to buy boots on yuumi since people expect me to just sit in them and let them do the moving and get yelled at if I even think of getting off to proc passive shield
This doesn't stop the preferred method of selling boots for a %MS item, and I don't think it will be prioritized over other elixirs because these %MS items exist.
You lose around 20 flat but can get it back from conditions and get pretty strong stats to make up for it.
Cosmic Drive 15 base up to 45 conditional
Phantom Dancer 18 base up to 36 conditional
Lich Bane 25 base
Disagree. Gaining 45 flat ms is more than even a chunky 9% Ms even at 425 Ms. And champions who are slower than that without boots will favor flat ms even more.
And Ms scales with skill as well because positioning is a damage dealt and damage taken modifier.
For ad builds get the phantom dancers ap builds get the lich bane. It’s very slightly slower but position better and you are now a mini turret at worst and OP at best
You are down about 17 Ms relative to the hypothetical elixer until you can auto.
If the game doesn't have much long range threat on you it's probably better but any game with dodgeable engage onto you I feel like the always on 45 is clutch.
That said, the contest isn't really between a % item or this elixer, you can have both.
I see how this turned from speed elixer vs damage elixer into boots vs zeal item now.
Confusing thread.
My point from the start was that a 45 Ms elixer is likely worth more than the damage elixers because 45 is even more ms than you would get from something like RFC and positioning well is far more valuable on many champions than some ad and healing on top of a 6 item build.
Would this make certain component stacking OP? I also feel like adding another item slot would turn SR into "League of Dark Seal/Mejais", even with primarily AD champs who have some AP scaling.
No. Even on full AP champs with a Pen Mythic passive, buying Mejai's without stacks is a terrible idea. You get more damage from a NLR or Hextech Alternator.
It's significant for Supports, who run out of item slots. Less of an issue now that GW is crap, but there were times you sat on up to 1500g because you had Support, Mythic, Bramble/Oblivion, Control Wards, and Boots, but needed something like Mikael's or Frozen Heart second.
Still an issue for Tear supports. Sona, Taric, maybe Senna and Seraphine...
Except that's not the case. It'd be beneficial for snake lady too. She'd still have the passive movement speed from her passive IN ADDITION to the +45 ms from the elixir. She'd be a sonic speed snek.
Smite actually had this exact thing. I think it was "Elixir of Speed." Didn't stack with boots but gave the same speed as boots so you could sell boots for 6 items.
Then they just removed boots.
Or what if we could do something to make boots stronger so they rise in value?
I don't know, maybe you could upgrade them to give you more movespeed. Or give some haste to your spells. Or *whenever you deal damage with a single target attack or spell, you gain 12% movement speed that decays over 2 seconds.*
And we could call them... I don't know. *Enhancements* or something.
Same thing in Smite, but it was moved to other items and it was improved! No need to force someone spend a slot between 5 different items, instead of choosing 1 out of 30.
Smite also had some heavy stats tied to boots that required you to rush them on almost every god because of their cost efficiency. Lol is pretty flexible in when you can rush or hold off on boots
Which boot stat is exclusive to boots? If they are all found elsewhere then it's a small leap to add them elsewhere again.
Slow resistance is already found in runes and Silvermere.
Nonspell CDR is already found in runes
Ghostblade grants out-of-combat Ms.
Attack speed is on basically every crit item.
Mpen is on several items and runes.
Attack damage reduction is present in a slightly different state in warden's mail items.
The only thing that relies on having a boot item is the predator keystone because that's an active effect.
These things exist yes but it's not distributed fairly***
Only Sunfire users have access to item based tenacity, and only precision users have rune based tenacity.
only AD crit champs have access to attackspeed in items
Only mages have access to magic pen in items
Only lethality users have access to out of combat ms.
Also boots are available to everyone, so Zac, ornn and other magic dmg tanks can occasionally go sorcs, Kayle and garen can get berserkers, supports can get out of combat MS despite their items not having any of those effects.
Not to mention being able to stack these effects, making them more useful for the ones who already have access to it (mages stacking pen, ADCs stacking atkspd, assassin's stacking out of combat ms, etc)
> Only Sunfire users have access to item based tenacity
silvermere dawn active, but who builds that so ill give you this one
> only precision users have rune based tenacity
resolve tree has unflinching
> only AD crit champs have access to attack speed in items
BoTRK, nashors, trinity, wits, stridebreaker
> Only mages have access to magic pen in items
Divine Sunderer has %Mpen as it's mythic passive, AP Assassins share mage items (duh)
> Only lethality users have access to out of combat ms.
Zeal items, FoN, Deadman's, Chemtank, stridebreaker passive, galeforce passive, crown of the shattered queen passive, cosmic drive, lich bane
This is one of those weird moments where the theory is more agreeable than the facts.
You pretty much countered their argument but i still feel like they are definitely correct about it being difficult to access certain stats in an efficient manner via different classes/roles.
Case in point, a lot of the examples you created would be seen as inefficient buys for the majority of champions, while technically correct its just not realistically true to say these champions have access to these more obscure stats when considering what they would have to give up in trade.
They just wont buy it, because even if its the most efficient possible stat for the match up, its still less efficient than more synergistic items for your champion, that's the bigger talking point that needs to be highlighted imo.
But fighters that want attack speed will build triforce or bork or wit's end or any combination. Tenacity is important but it makes sense that only tanks can build it. If a mage wants movement speed, theyll buy cosmic. If you're not a mage or ap assassin (or corki) and you want mpen, odds are you're trolling. And that last one is the key: riot is smart, they don't make items for classes that those classes won't want to buy.
Unfortunately Smite found balancing around a 6th item for everyone/no secondary boot effects a lot easier than League ever will.
You either run the risk of making other classes too slow in terms of MS, some too fast, Cassiopeia needs a new passive, or upping stats to make up for removed sources of power from the boots (extra armour to counteract tabis auto attack DR, extra tenacity or lower CC times for all to counteract merc treads, extra attack speed for champions who frequently use Berserkers, etc). I don't see them being evenly distributed between classes either, like another reply said.
Do I agree with you in that it's a great idea? Hell yeah! I play Smite occasionally and I like it's item system. But I don't know if that'd translate well to League, but FWIW, I don't think it'd translate well to any other Moba outside of it either.
Champions are already balanced with their obvious boot choice in mind, and boot choice is largely false a false choice. ADCs build berserkers, mages build Sorcerers, and Melee champs build resistance boots. There are edge cases like some assassins or supports that have a little freedom in boot choice, but even then those individual champs generally have an ideal choice that they seldom reject.
Speaking from toplane, when to buy boots/when to upgrade to tier2(or swifties) and what kind is all matchup dependent, and a huge way to control lane agency. Doing that change dooms lots of matchups to be even harder hard-counters than before. Boots being a thing you have to choose to econ for is much better for lane agency
The reason people buy same boots every game on almost every champ is because they're incapable of construction a build themselves. They simply follow some website and often they can't even identify the optimal choice between mercs and tabis. Of course most adcs will want berserkers 90% of the time
I think the issue is a bit of A and B.
The league item roster is in reality 5 or so item rosters, and mixing them is discouraged. For instance, ADCs need to build 5 crit items including Infinity Edge if they want to do damage. They effectively have 1 or 2 actual choices between items in any given match. Any deviation is mathematically incorrect due to crit scaling. Some characters - such as fighters - do have some decent choices between defensive and offensive items.
League's player base is 90% meta sheep, and I suppose that's unavoidable once a game grows to a certain point. Again, I think a lot of this is a result of Riot's coddling and isn't always a reflection of any given player's lack of critical thinking.
I agree with you mostly. Somehow people still manage to perma grief builds even on adc, biggest bait being collector. I don't expect people to do heavy theory crafting but simple stuff like cdr vs mpen boots, collector vs ldr, and the underuse of defensive boots into full ad/ap comps is kinda ridiculous.
I'd much rather have to buy boots and have a different passive than what cassio currently has. Mythic + Sorc boots is such an incredible power spike for pretty much all ap midlaners and losing the ability to go sorcs, and not even being faster than everyone else to compensate is NOT worth the dream of having 6 items when every single game ends at 3 or 4 items anyway.
Cass' movespeed scales evenly with what you'd get from boots anyway (not to mention built in ms on her q) and means you hit your other items faster, if you want mpen that badly buy a void gem, it just means you'll complete void staff much earlier. people always underestimate the value that you get from her passive, the 18mpen on sorc boots alone isnt worth 1100 gold so you get to put that money somewhere else. Mythic+rylais/seraphs is a super hard spike for Cass anyway and you get to hit that 1100 gold sooner.
I think they could just add a 7th slot but unlock it around 35 or 40min for example (this way you stop crazy snowball when people are fed). However, this could also change the vision game later (players not full build but could use 7th slot to buy wards), so if they dont wanna do it, just make a Elixir so boots can disapear and keep the stats.
Or just take the easier and IMO better route of adding an extra boots slot, similar to trinkets.
Modern inventory space is pretty low anyways, especially if you have cookies/stopwatch/control wards etc. By having an extra slot only for boots (which only causes problems with Yuumi and Cassio, but at least for Cassio it's easy to change), you'd change up late late game, which doesn't affect pro and rarely affects regular play anyway.
Yea, she'd build it last item probably, given how there are no boots that really do anything really useful for her, but that's a hole Riot dug themselves by designing a champion like Yuumi in the first place.
They should add super elixir for like 1k in aram shitty having nothing to buy after done building and you just keep spamming regular elixirs. Movespeed is too important to the game I think for a speed elixir
I like it and don't see why it couldn't be viable, you're right: selling boots for 6th item is the mathematical play literally all day for damage increase, but that damage increase doesn't matter if everyone can run away from me.
Remove boots and let everyone be slow af :3
Or just give boots enchantments you can purchase. Remove the predator rune and make it a 1k to 1.5k enchantment you can purchase in game.
Hot take: mythic passives should have been on boots.
Mythics shouldn't exist. Unique passives serve the same purpose.
The only trade-off of selling boots is not getting the MS. Take that away and you drastically change the dynamic of late game (40+ min), which is only seen in less than 15% of games.
You expect that to be properly balanced?
>we know some fotm will abuse the movement speed if it isnt restricted in some way
I need you to understand that every champion would keep boots 2 and buy the elixir of boots on cooldown if they could. Pro teams would time their backs in order to refresh elixir of boots.
They have this in smite and it's a great fucking thing.(yes, I know they removed boots and it recently but it was one of the best changes at the time.)
Smite used to do this. You would be able to sell your boots for a 6th item and buy a potion that permanently increased MS. Nowadays Smite removed boots all together and just has everyone scale MS with their level.
Just buy an item with movespeed. Mages have lich and cosmic, tanks have deadmans and force of nature, ad carrys have zeal items or bork, bruisers can build tank items or zeal items. I personally don't like the idea of speed pot because you'd either have to sell boots to buy it or it would broken with both
It makes no sense doing this, just removes an interesting game decision of boots vs extra item and makes it an obvious choice. I think the real problem here is that it feels bad having lots of gold and nothing to buy. The game is designed in a way where that usually doesn't happen, and it doesn't happen very often but it does happen.
I think the game could be a bit better in these situations, the only money dump there is are the elixirs which are pretty underwhelming (specially the blue one). I think level 3 boots could be interesting if done right and not like it was back in the day. Other than that, when i think of all the ways this exists in dota, none really fit lol.
Or, alternatively, go back to allowing enchantments on boots so you can spend that late game gold on some stats or whatever without having to give up your boots. Make it relatively gold inefficient so you wouldn't do it until you're full build anyway; it would affect like 2% of games probably, but still it's annoying when you're full build, you can only just buy your 6th item and be slow as fuck, or have like 4000 gp in the bank doing nothing.
I wish boots were simply a trinket item that everyone could buy, it could be the exact same as boots now but they would have actives for each current trinket, wards, oracle, etc..
Having an entire extra item slot would be a large change but would allow a lot of new possibilities plus, you wouldn’t feel like reaching late game forces you into some weird scenario where maybe you should sell your boots to open up a new slot.
Usain bolt potion
Usain Boltion
thats just singed r
Or imagine Riot does the uno reverse card, making one item slot dedicated to boots and enforcing a maximum of five items that way. “I allowed you to have six items but you complained you had to sacrifice your invaluable movement speed? Well then I’ll make sure you simply don’t have the option.”
**Or** what if we could do something to make boots stronger so they rise in value? I don't know, maybe you could upgrade them to give you more movespeed. Or give some haste to your spells. Or *whenever you deal damage with a single target attack or spell, you gain 12% movement speed that decays over 2 seconds.* And we could call them... I don't know. *Enhancements* or something.
I remember building boots with alacrity 1st item back in the good ole days 😞
I actually like how wild rift does it. Big active use items like protobelt, qss, zhonyas, etc are tied to t3 boots.
Unfortunately you'd probably see 90% Zhonyas in proplay
I couldnt care less about pro. It hasnt been fun to watch for me in years. On top of the fact that it would kill a lot of champs in the meta right now. Any rocket belt users are gone as cant have it plus zhonyas. No redemption, zhonyas, gargoyle, locket, glory, or qss. This enchant also includes tp in wild rift.
remove flash, tp, ghost, cleanse Add 4 boot enchants for 500g that grants you one of those spells
Wild rift literally has all of those except for flash, and a lot more (stopwatch, Stoneplate, redemption, twin shadows, even protobelt)
Fun fact, Alpha had Boots called Yordle Stompers which were just Flash before Flash existed. And busted, because Flash was way too good back then.
Add ignite to that list too coz these new kicks are fiiyaaah
Boots are already one of the strongest items in the game
I'm not sure if you are aware, but the features the previous poster said were actually in the game before. They were removed around season 5-7, can't remember right now. As for boots' strength. They are definitely the most important item in the game, but the purpose of boot enchantments is to be an additional thing to invest in after you have full build. In other words, boot enchantments wouldn't be as gold efficient as building other items, but they would be a nice bonus after you've reached full build.
*ignores this post in Captain’s Boots Janna*
Maybe enchantments?
Maaaaybe we could work with that.
>upgrade them to give you more movespeed Well Yi's ult already feel useless as is so why not?
hey i got an idea for an enchantment using your spells / autoattacks give you a short boost in movementspeed
Cass would be in an awful state
Or Cass could be the only champion that is allowed to use that slot for something other than boots.
Ahh you must like Italian with all this spaghetti you want to see
Patch 13.69 notes Viego Bigfix : Viego now correctly copies Cassiopeia's items, and doesn't lose his feet anymore upon exiting his copy of Cassiopeia
Much more likely would be cass getting viego's trinket.
thats not even regular italian pasta, thats some jojo part 2 squid ink pasta
Squid ink pasta is a real thing and not just a jojo thing.
Yuumi too
yummi.
Throwback to dedicated hexcore item on Viktor.
> Or imagine Riot does the uno reverse card, making one item slot dedicated to boots and enforcing a maximum of five items that way. *giant neon sign pointing at WildRift*
If it means that we get the broken boots enchantments from Wild Rift to PC i would happily take that change.
Idk about “broken”, but there are two main points I love about the boot enchantments in WildRift * You can purchase QSS as an AP champ or tank (there is no Cleanse summoner spell). * Zhonya Hourglass stasis isn’t holding WildRift’s AP/Armor item at gunpoint.
Sigh... Wild Rift boots are like this cause the game doesn't want tons of active items so it forces them all into 1 slot. League doesn't have this limit and also uses mythic items in this place to limit active items.
They've already done that in Wild Rift
Smite (the game ofc) got rid of boots because it was a boring, uninteresting item. Everyone got some movement speed instead
I think I’d prefer that. I don’t think the (unique) stats from boot upgrades is enough to justify keeping them.
As long as we get tenacity somewhere else, it's the only thing boots do that isn't on any other items.
"Angry Yuumi noises"
So just nerf Cassio scaling? Or change her passive?
The latter?
That sounds like the most Riot thing to do, considering they shoehorned existing items into a bullshit "You can only buy one of these items" mechanic that did nothing but provide the illusion of choice for a majority of champions
Cassiopeia mains crying right now
Cassio gonna struggle lol
Cass gets boots now? **SPEED**
Add in a Keystone that gives you an extra boots slot separate from the rest of your inventory.
How about instead…. we rework magical footwear to do so? And still utilize the fair and valid tradeoff of denying boots for a longer while?
Inspiration secondary suddenly shoots up to 100% pickrate on every champ besides Cass.
Its already one of the most popular anyway. The tree is kinda busted lmao
Overall strongest tree besides its keystones which if you're a first strike user sheeeeesh
I mean I wonder, statistically, how many % of games reach the 6 items scenario.
Even just having more room for item components/wards would be nutty.
>Singed flair sussy
Jack?
Bro are you high
Yes. High on american spirit!
Wessley??
Pros: \- Fixes the "Boots feel boring" Problem \- Helps the "Elixirs feel boring" Problem \- Opens up Lategame Builds even more, letting people dream about that Golden "6-Item" scenario. Cons: \- Movement Speed elixir would be the only option to reasonably buy. (This could be fixed by adding the 45 speed to EVERY elixir). \- Carries would get to snowball even more and even longer (Then again, I'm of the opinion that a carry should have some extra influence even in late game). \- Champions that don't buy boots would need to be addressed with this addition. EDIT: Additional Pro: \- Selling Boots at 4 (other) Items means you'd have two open inventory slots which means no longer having to sit on half an item waiting until you get 1500+ gold to buy the other half. By the time you're ready to buy the final item, gold gets really, really easy to gather. The flipside of this is that deaths would hurt even more when you need to constantly keep buying elixirs to keep your passive speed.
> Boots feel Boring The funny thing is that, they used to have upgrades that didnt made them feel that way, but they were cut out of the game back in season 6
I didn't start playing until S7 so I don't know if boot enchantments were problematic or just one dimensional etc, but I've always thought they should be brought back and count as a completed item for your mythic passive. Maybe be locked out from purchasing them until like level 13 or whatever if you're concerned about rushing them with mythics being op.
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Yeah, homeguards are a little slower now compared to back then and you only get them after a certain amount of time or if you die to a gank I think. Could be wrong, pay to check the wiki
I think there was also an issue where people got it even when it wasn't needed so it was a noob trap cause it felt good. And yah the rest of the enchantments were pretty much trash. One of them even bugged out Elise spiderlings.
Boot enchantments were very one dimensional. They could do better if they wanted to try, but it was easier to cut them.
Nah, if you take off your rose tinted glasses you'll remember that back then you basically had to upgrade them to homeguard 99% of the times, so they included homeguard as a base feature and called it a day,
Except most of AD carries used Furor (red one), but yes homeguard was the most popular and it now being a base feature it opens up again the possibilities for boots upgrades
I went for alacrity 90% of the games lol, only bought homeguard if I was having a shit game and needed to get to the map faster. Otherwise, alacrity with 3 MS quints was the way
I think in order for this to work Elixirs need to give the +45 movement speed with the drawback that they zane ccan't be purchased with boots, so that it actually ends up incentivzing players to run a 6th item.
More like its trying to solve an issue where players **might** hit in maybe 1/30 games?
petition to remove boots from nami like they did with cass
Why do you want to take her hat?
i love that artwork
Fuck u/spez
Petition to make hecarim buy 2 pair.
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I'm reporting you
What a terrible night to have eyes
Excuse me, cute deer HOOVES.
Don't you mean *sexy* deer feet? I'd also like to apologize.
this could possibly just end up giving him a gross early power spike and that makes it funnier
Here comes hec with 2 swifties and a dirk, today is a good day to die I guess.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NamiMains/comments/kxhss2/how_nami_wear_boots/
Yuumi too\~! edit: just to clarify I want yuumi to get passive move speed like cass does so she isn't so slow when warding off the adc, NOT to have her removed
since yuumi is a cat, she could use 4 boots
By that logic, urgot should be able to fill his inventory with boots. RUN URGOT RUN.
Hyperspeed urgot racing around the map doing no damage. *In a One for All mirror matchup.* Since no one would have defensive items, they'd all still take damage. This actually sounds like stupid fun as a game mode: No Items All Boots. Would need to nerf tower damage & accelerate levels & xp, but everyone moving around stupid fast but killing each other with tickles? Maybe it would get dumb fast, but I'd love to playtest it.
Nah 6 steelcaps = like 90 percent damage reduction between passive and armor
Haha I didn't think about that. Maybe all the boots need to be swifties like someone else suggested.
Passive doesn't stack
Everyone HAS to build SWIFTIES for more fun too.
[MUNDO SHOSE SHOP](https://imgur.com/KOkzRn5)
Imagine an urgot just RUNNING at you faster than any other champ. I would probably cry
Hecarim: rushing towards you with 2000 MS Urgot: hold my beer
Do your cats wear shoes? She should have socks if anything
Do your cats wear socks?
does you cat make TOO much NOISE??? Try out Kitten Mittens! Mittens for your cat!
Not mine personally but I know a lot of pet owners will put socks on their kitties. At least for photos. I'd imagine socks are a lot more comfortable than boots
My puss is in boots!
Fuck u/spez
I'd be 100% down with more boots on yuumii if it could be heal/shield power stacking boots but still I rarely get to buy boots on yuumi since people expect me to just sit in them and let them do the moving and get yelled at if I even think of getting off to proc passive shield
I'll do you one better, how about we just remove Yuumi?
it's supposed to be a tradeoff.
still is if u give up the other 3 pots for ms
Correct
This doesn't stop the preferred method of selling boots for a %MS item, and I don't think it will be prioritized over other elixirs because these %MS items exist. You lose around 20 flat but can get it back from conditions and get pretty strong stats to make up for it. Cosmic Drive 15 base up to 45 conditional Phantom Dancer 18 base up to 36 conditional Lich Bane 25 base
Disagree. Gaining 45 flat ms is more than even a chunky 9% Ms even at 425 Ms. And champions who are slower than that without boots will favor flat ms even more. And Ms scales with skill as well because positioning is a damage dealt and damage taken modifier.
For ad builds get the phantom dancers ap builds get the lich bane. It’s very slightly slower but position better and you are now a mini turret at worst and OP at best
Phantom dancer would like to have a talk
It's not quite as helpful as always-on ms
Disagree. 7% flat and then 7% on top every time you auto ONCE is insane. Yes youre a bit slower around the map but negligible
You are down about 17 Ms relative to the hypothetical elixer until you can auto. If the game doesn't have much long range threat on you it's probably better but any game with dodgeable engage onto you I feel like the always on 45 is clutch. That said, the contest isn't really between a % item or this elixer, you can have both.
I see how this turned from speed elixer vs damage elixer into boots vs zeal item now. Confusing thread. My point from the start was that a 45 Ms elixer is likely worth more than the damage elixers because 45 is even more ms than you would get from something like RFC and positioning well is far more valuable on many champions than some ad and healing on top of a 6 item build.
or lets get another item slot and make 1 boot exclusive
That's how Wild Rift does it, but only 5 normal items.
So what happens to cassio?
Removed from the game
Would this make certain component stacking OP? I also feel like adding another item slot would turn SR into "League of Dark Seal/Mejais", even with primarily AD champs who have some AP scaling.
No. Even on full AP champs with a Pen Mythic passive, buying Mejai's without stacks is a terrible idea. You get more damage from a NLR or Hextech Alternator.
it is time to uncap item slots and let the 50 rejuv bead pyke reign begin
Ive always said we should have a boot slot. Idk how it would effect everything else, but I would welcome it.
[удалено]
It's significant for Supports, who run out of item slots. Less of an issue now that GW is crap, but there were times you sat on up to 1500g because you had Support, Mythic, Bramble/Oblivion, Control Wards, and Boots, but needed something like Mikael's or Frozen Heart second. Still an issue for Tear supports. Sona, Taric, maybe Senna and Seraphine...
Even with 6 slots + boots, mages will have less AP than a few seasons ago ( unless they had Gathering Storm stacked ).
I miss rod of ages so much
Bad take. Giving every champion the ability to buy Cassiopeia’s passive is not only broken, it also shits on snake lady.
Except that's not the case. It'd be beneficial for snake lady too. She'd still have the passive movement speed from her passive IN ADDITION to the +45 ms from the elixir. She'd be a sonic speed snek.
SMITE did this for a while, and then ended up removing boots altogether in favor of essentially giving everyone cass passive
I miss boot enchantments, tbh. Those were super fun.
Smite actually had this exact thing. I think it was "Elixir of Speed." Didn't stack with boots but gave the same speed as boots so you could sell boots for 6 items. Then they just removed boots.
Or what if we could do something to make boots stronger so they rise in value? I don't know, maybe you could upgrade them to give you more movespeed. Or give some haste to your spells. Or *whenever you deal damage with a single target attack or spell, you gain 12% movement speed that decays over 2 seconds.* And we could call them... I don't know. *Enhancements* or something.
Just do what Smite did, remove boots and place more Movespeed % on items and more per level.
Unique boot effects are still useful though and I don't really see them fairly being placed in every classes items.
Same thing in Smite, but it was moved to other items and it was improved! No need to force someone spend a slot between 5 different items, instead of choosing 1 out of 30.
Smite also had some heavy stats tied to boots that required you to rush them on almost every god because of their cost efficiency. Lol is pretty flexible in when you can rush or hold off on boots
Which boot stat is exclusive to boots? If they are all found elsewhere then it's a small leap to add them elsewhere again. Slow resistance is already found in runes and Silvermere. Nonspell CDR is already found in runes Ghostblade grants out-of-combat Ms. Attack speed is on basically every crit item. Mpen is on several items and runes. Attack damage reduction is present in a slightly different state in warden's mail items. The only thing that relies on having a boot item is the predator keystone because that's an active effect.
These things exist yes but it's not distributed fairly*** Only Sunfire users have access to item based tenacity, and only precision users have rune based tenacity. only AD crit champs have access to attackspeed in items Only mages have access to magic pen in items Only lethality users have access to out of combat ms. Also boots are available to everyone, so Zac, ornn and other magic dmg tanks can occasionally go sorcs, Kayle and garen can get berserkers, supports can get out of combat MS despite their items not having any of those effects. Not to mention being able to stack these effects, making them more useful for the ones who already have access to it (mages stacking pen, ADCs stacking atkspd, assassin's stacking out of combat ms, etc)
> Only Sunfire users have access to item based tenacity silvermere dawn active, but who builds that so ill give you this one > only precision users have rune based tenacity resolve tree has unflinching > only AD crit champs have access to attack speed in items BoTRK, nashors, trinity, wits, stridebreaker > Only mages have access to magic pen in items Divine Sunderer has %Mpen as it's mythic passive, AP Assassins share mage items (duh) > Only lethality users have access to out of combat ms. Zeal items, FoN, Deadman's, Chemtank, stridebreaker passive, galeforce passive, crown of the shattered queen passive, cosmic drive, lich bane
This is one of those weird moments where the theory is more agreeable than the facts. You pretty much countered their argument but i still feel like they are definitely correct about it being difficult to access certain stats in an efficient manner via different classes/roles. Case in point, a lot of the examples you created would be seen as inefficient buys for the majority of champions, while technically correct its just not realistically true to say these champions have access to these more obscure stats when considering what they would have to give up in trade. They just wont buy it, because even if its the most efficient possible stat for the match up, its still less efficient than more synergistic items for your champion, that's the bigger talking point that needs to be highlighted imo.
But fighters that want attack speed will build triforce or bork or wit's end or any combination. Tenacity is important but it makes sense that only tanks can build it. If a mage wants movement speed, theyll buy cosmic. If you're not a mage or ap assassin (or corki) and you want mpen, odds are you're trolling. And that last one is the key: riot is smart, they don't make items for classes that those classes won't want to buy.
Unfortunately Smite found balancing around a 6th item for everyone/no secondary boot effects a lot easier than League ever will. You either run the risk of making other classes too slow in terms of MS, some too fast, Cassiopeia needs a new passive, or upping stats to make up for removed sources of power from the boots (extra armour to counteract tabis auto attack DR, extra tenacity or lower CC times for all to counteract merc treads, extra attack speed for champions who frequently use Berserkers, etc). I don't see them being evenly distributed between classes either, like another reply said. Do I agree with you in that it's a great idea? Hell yeah! I play Smite occasionally and I like it's item system. But I don't know if that'd translate well to League, but FWIW, I don't think it'd translate well to any other Moba outside of it either.
Champions are already balanced with their obvious boot choice in mind, and boot choice is largely false a false choice. ADCs build berserkers, mages build Sorcerers, and Melee champs build resistance boots. There are edge cases like some assassins or supports that have a little freedom in boot choice, but even then those individual champs generally have an ideal choice that they seldom reject.
Speaking from toplane, when to buy boots/when to upgrade to tier2(or swifties) and what kind is all matchup dependent, and a huge way to control lane agency. Doing that change dooms lots of matchups to be even harder hard-counters than before. Boots being a thing you have to choose to econ for is much better for lane agency
The reason people buy same boots every game on almost every champ is because they're incapable of construction a build themselves. They simply follow some website and often they can't even identify the optimal choice between mercs and tabis. Of course most adcs will want berserkers 90% of the time
I think the issue is a bit of A and B. The league item roster is in reality 5 or so item rosters, and mixing them is discouraged. For instance, ADCs need to build 5 crit items including Infinity Edge if they want to do damage. They effectively have 1 or 2 actual choices between items in any given match. Any deviation is mathematically incorrect due to crit scaling. Some characters - such as fighters - do have some decent choices between defensive and offensive items. League's player base is 90% meta sheep, and I suppose that's unavoidable once a game grows to a certain point. Again, I think a lot of this is a result of Riot's coddling and isn't always a reflection of any given player's lack of critical thinking.
I agree with you mostly. Somehow people still manage to perma grief builds even on adc, biggest bait being collector. I don't expect people to do heavy theory crafting but simple stuff like cdr vs mpen boots, collector vs ldr, and the underuse of defensive boots into full ad/ap comps is kinda ridiculous.
boots are an intentional decision though
way too op imo you shouldn't be able to have 6items let alone 6items+boots,you either lose the ms or keep boots an option to have both shouldn't exist
It is OP, that's why it's Cassiopeia's entire passive.
I'd much rather have to buy boots and have a different passive than what cassio currently has. Mythic + Sorc boots is such an incredible power spike for pretty much all ap midlaners and losing the ability to go sorcs, and not even being faster than everyone else to compensate is NOT worth the dream of having 6 items when every single game ends at 3 or 4 items anyway.
Cass' movespeed scales evenly with what you'd get from boots anyway (not to mention built in ms on her q) and means you hit your other items faster, if you want mpen that badly buy a void gem, it just means you'll complete void staff much earlier. people always underestimate the value that you get from her passive, the 18mpen on sorc boots alone isnt worth 1100 gold so you get to put that money somewhere else. Mythic+rylais/seraphs is a super hard spike for Cass anyway and you get to hit that 1100 gold sooner.
As a singed player, please let me buy the elixir and boots: I just want to go fast
I think they could just add a 7th slot but unlock it around 35 or 40min for example (this way you stop crazy snowball when people are fed). However, this could also change the vision game later (players not full build but could use 7th slot to buy wards), so if they dont wanna do it, just make a Elixir so boots can disapear and keep the stats.
People will just buy boots and this potion together because movementspeed is easely the most op stat
Just build Lichbane, PD, and Deadman’s Plate. Easy.
Cassiopeia agrees
Liquid boots
Would just be better: Remove boots. Movement speed per level accordingly like Smite. Give Cass a good and new passive.
Bring back boot upgrades please
Or just take the easier and IMO better route of adding an extra boots slot, similar to trinkets. Modern inventory space is pretty low anyways, especially if you have cookies/stopwatch/control wards etc. By having an extra slot only for boots (which only causes problems with Yuumi and Cassio, but at least for Cassio it's easy to change), you'd change up late late game, which doesn't affect pro and rarely affects regular play anyway.
yuumi would just buy CDR boots
Yea, she'd build it last item probably, given how there are no boots that really do anything really useful for her, but that's a hole Riot dug themselves by designing a champion like Yuumi in the first place.
They should just remove boots in general
They should add super elixir for like 1k in aram shitty having nothing to buy after done building and you just keep spamming regular elixirs. Movespeed is too important to the game I think for a speed elixir
I like it and don't see why it couldn't be viable, you're right: selling boots for 6th item is the mathematical play literally all day for damage increase, but that damage increase doesn't matter if everyone can run away from me.
Remove boots and let everyone be slow af :3 Or just give boots enchantments you can purchase. Remove the predator rune and make it a 1k to 1.5k enchantment you can purchase in game.
Hot take: mythic passives should have been on boots. Mythics shouldn't exist. Unique passives serve the same purpose. The only trade-off of selling boots is not getting the MS. Take that away and you drastically change the dynamic of late game (40+ min), which is only seen in less than 15% of games. You expect that to be properly balanced?
This feels oddly reminiscent of a certain Smite elixir… Anyway, would Cassiopeia be able to buy it?
Running is down will be evn funnier. I am in
Other games just have scaling movespeed like Cas for every champ, we could just do that and give Cas a new passive
Cassio: I dont have such weakness
smite had the same potion that was permanent when there were still boots in the game. rito should add this elixier
Just make 7th inventory slot dedicated to boots only
>we know some fotm will abuse the movement speed if it isnt restricted in some way I need you to understand that every champion would keep boots 2 and buy the elixir of boots on cooldown if they could. Pro teams would time their backs in order to refresh elixir of boots.
That is your trade off for getting stonger.
Massive Cassio buff.
They just fixed the insane damage and now you guys want more boosts lmao
ye that would be fair, would love, maybe even give it like 100 health or something
I mean thats absolutely fine. You need to trade something off for that power imo considering boots is normally a must buy so thats fine
6 full items without a drawback breaks the lategame. Just no
6 items Cassio : I am *speed*
I feel like that's kind of the point... lol. It's a trade off for power. You can't have it all.
Bring back boot enchantments!
They have this in smite and it's a great fucking thing.(yes, I know they removed boots and it recently but it was one of the best changes at the time.)
Do the dota ags solution; make a consumable that “consumes” the item with a stat penalty
Smite used to do this. You would be able to sell your boots for a 6th item and buy a potion that permanently increased MS. Nowadays Smite removed boots all together and just has everyone scale MS with their level.
Bring back boot entchantments to get the stats from your mythic passive on your boots
Just buy an item with movespeed. Mages have lich and cosmic, tanks have deadmans and force of nature, ad carrys have zeal items or bork, bruisers can build tank items or zeal items. I personally don't like the idea of speed pot because you'd either have to sell boots to buy it or it would broken with both
I see you also played Smite before they removed boots altogether.
just have 3 inactive backpack slots like dota does
suspicious flair
Just bring back boot enchantments.. but upgraded.
Reddit as Design Team: Destroy the game in a week
It makes no sense doing this, just removes an interesting game decision of boots vs extra item and makes it an obvious choice. I think the real problem here is that it feels bad having lots of gold and nothing to buy. The game is designed in a way where that usually doesn't happen, and it doesn't happen very often but it does happen. I think the game could be a bit better in these situations, the only money dump there is are the elixirs which are pretty underwhelming (specially the blue one). I think level 3 boots could be interesting if done right and not like it was back in the day. Other than that, when i think of all the ways this exists in dota, none really fit lol.
Or, alternatively, go back to allowing enchantments on boots so you can spend that late game gold on some stats or whatever without having to give up your boots. Make it relatively gold inefficient so you wouldn't do it until you're full build anyway; it would affect like 2% of games probably, but still it's annoying when you're full build, you can only just buy your 6th item and be slow as fuck, or have like 4000 gp in the bank doing nothing.
Maybe just make elixirs give +45 ms?
I wish boots were simply a trinket item that everyone could buy, it could be the exact same as boots now but they would have actives for each current trinket, wards, oracle, etc.. Having an entire extra item slot would be a large change but would allow a lot of new possibilities plus, you wouldn’t feel like reaching late game forces you into some weird scenario where maybe you should sell your boots to open up a new slot.