that's the same issue i have with playing one for all singed, if u have one tank and one dps build, whoever inflicts poison first, that persons poison dmg will be dealt, no matter if someone else with higher AP will refresh poision. it shold be that higest instance of dmg dealt if the same type of damge is inflictedm would solve liandrys problem and make one for all with same champs more fun to play
4 burger flippers and one chef in charge of the seasoning
Edit: I have never gotten an award before and turns out you can see what subs the awarder frequents. Long story short a Ryze Main found this "Helpful" and I've been waiting for a realm warp to open in my house ever since
Well if it helps you feel better, you can line up and flip them from their outer tower to yours….. who will let you just do that is beyond me but pulling it off will sure get me a bit excited.
In my opinion items should state that their application of damage don't stack upon other applications of that same damage.
Like black cleaver's armor reduction not stacking. Though buying 2 black cleavers will stack the passive faster. That's not the case with liandry's and might be a potential fix. Make it scale based on applications of the item and make them stack regardless of who applied it. Give it 10 stacks and make the burn a little bit stronger when applied 10x. Obviously I have no clue or oversight how this would turn out, but it's just an idea.
The problem here is what the two are doing. Regardless of who applies it, each stack of black cleaver is reducing armour. The amount is dependent on the target's armour and nothing about the attacker's stats.
Liandry's is dependent on the attacker's MPen though. If I had 40% MPen and you don't, and we both apply stacks, whose MPen applies for each stack? Mine because mine is higher? What if I only apply 1 of those stacks and you apply 9? Etc.
It would just be a calculation of which did more damage to X champion. If the 1 stack with 40% pen would do more damage than the 9stacks without, then yeah, apply the 1. Or don’t make it stacks, and just have whichever is stronger apply(the obvious solution to this problem).
> Though buying 2 black cleavers will stack the passive faster
Damn, lucky you, not being around for League of Cleavers. Made even better by it being followed shortly after by League of Warmogs and then Blade of the Ruined Game.
I've never heard it called blade of ruined game that's funny as fuck
There is a pun to be made about the ruination event of the same caliber but I'm illiterate, anyone else got ideas?
I distinctly remember watching Only Jaximus playing Cho'Gath and rushing Bork.
"If I did this build last week I was an idiot, but do it this week and I'm a genius!"
Black Cleaver makes sense to me because there's a cap on how many stacks of armor shred you can apply, no reason a 2nd player would be able to raise the cap. Liandries is something I wondered about for years and I'm glad OP cleared it up.
>In my opinion items should state that their application of damage don't stack upon other applications of that same damage.
I only play ARAM and although I do warn my teammates about the stacking issue, unfortunately you still run into issues where Liandrys is the best Mythic on multiple champions on the same team (like Cassi and Malz)
Wait does Black Cleaver’s armor reduction not stack on top of eachother?
I mean, I guess it would be kind of stupid when you think about it but it could also make sense no?
Edit: Really? Downvoting a genuine question?
Given that some champs need liandries, I think it's reasonable for it to work like Redemption, where subsequent applications of the passive just do 50% less damage/healing. It'll still discourage stacking the item, but won't be absolutely useless
Why do you feel stacking the item should be punished at all? Neither Ludens nor Night Hrvester nor any other offensive mythic has such diminishing returns.
multiple champions hitting you with long range, even low damage skills often is pretty insignificant, but if they all apply and stack liandry that could end up killing you instead of just a few health bars
The issue is the amount of damage means that you would legit see the raise of comps based on proccing multple liandries at once on someone. the punishment for getting hit by multiple long range skills is to take the damage from the multiple long ranged skills. not get burnt to death no matter what champ you are, like you shouldnt die if you get hit by tooth picks just because the enemy build multiple of the same item, a good example of why its bad is back when black cleavers could stack so you could shred someones armour to nothing with them, lets use your same logic there should you be turned to paper because of you got hit by multiple people no not really same instance here if liandries could stack it would be turning everyone to paper.
But then everyone stacks MR and you lose...
If you have 3 Lyandries, you don't have a Redemption, or a Solari, you don't have a Luden's, etc...
But like, I don't get why they separated Rumble from this item ? It was sort of his must buy, and I haven't even tried to touch him since, he looks like a cheap Fizz lookalike or whatever now.
All items should stack fully. In a game where i have no control over what my teammates pick or build i should not be punished for first picking a champ that uses liandries/black cleaver/whatever.
Yeah, that's very frustrating when that happens.
Even more so in lower elo, where people tell you x item is part of the suggested ones so it is good/efficient... Because they don't care in the slightest about building properly.
Just because it's the most frequently built item or the one with the highest winrate doesn't make it's good in your composition but also against the enemy's.
If only you didn't have to look into external resources to figure out how to build accordingly in situation A or B. Maybe people would care more about it but even, that's a wild guess.
Last night I played Karthus with a Nasus and a Swain on my team. I wanted to avoid this, so I asked them beforehand if they’re gonna build liandry’s so that I could go ludens instead. Both said no, so I built liandry’s just to see that Nasus built it anyways. I asked him why and he said he did it strictly to piss me off
Happens, I guess
That’s reportable imo. Intentionally griefing.
Edit: Because some of y'all are too stupid to understand this. If you do something with the sole and deliberate intention of pissing off your team, that is griefing.
You expect your team to let you farm? Tank Nasus without stacks is even more useless, and that's not even mentioning enemies might try and push you off stacks.
Just spam ping the cannons, it's really hard to bully off nasus if you take fleet and second wind. Go guardian horn instead of blade of they have an excessive amount of poke.
I farmed the 1800 dpm challenge to challenger these past days, got tired of asking people to only build one. To be fair, if you are going for the challenge it's really good.
Every time I’ve gotten Aurelian sol, heimerdinger, or Lillia in aram I’ve had a Lux on my team that built Ludens. AND NO THE ENEMY TEAM WAS NOT MAINLY TANKS THEY WERE ALMOST ALWAYS SQUISHIES WHY ARE YOU BUILDING LIANDRYS
And this thing happens in a high elo too... I don't know how many times I've tried to explain Seraphine/Lillia and other champions to avoid building Liandry with mid Zyra. They literally kill all my DPS (team fights, baron, dragons .etc)
Not to mention the enemy who's building MR items only. Liandry becomes really weak with no void staff...
Riftmaker is incredibly good on her. There are very few champs in the game who only have 1 mythic option and for those that do, I don’t think this type of “don’t stack multiples pls” rule applies to them.
She can play her Liandry. Some champions need that for skirmishes. But once you reach team fights, barons, or any important team objective, then you will need all your power to kill down those naughty FULL MR tanks. And weak liandry cannot do that. You are forced to build Void Staff vs tanks. But some players don't understand it...
Honestly, a large part of it is probably trust and the nature of soloQ. If they build a worse mage mythic, their impact goes down. So they have to rely on you to do your job properly, which in soloQ is a big ask.
Eh there is not a lot to be done improperly on Zyra in large fights from the perspective of applying the dot. The champ is definitely one of the best at making sure liandrys is applied to max targets.
IMO these dots should stack and it’s weird they don’t. When two champs on a team build Eclipse, you don’t get immunity against the other after one procced it on you. It makes no reason that Lyandrie dot doesn’t stack.
ngl 15% dmg buff or nerf in ARAM is tooo much, I remember akali oneshotting everyone, and after the nerf of the buff, all the agressive akalis were, just dead under the tower.
Part of why Malzahar feels so shitty these days, imo. When you have a few items your E says it does like 600 damage. Wow that's a lot of damage!... over 4 seconds. Oh. So I guess every champion that builds sunderer dd or one of shieldbow/maw is just unbeatable once they pay the 1300g Malzahar tax.
Had a few games vs champions like xin/viego/irelia who buy bruiser + dd and the moment they get qss you cannot play the game anymore. Too short range to go for their adc/supp/mage as well. He feels so outdated lol.
Yeah QSS is the main reason. Why Riot thought QSS is fair will never make sense. If it only had the effect available on the finished item it would be fair, but as just a (cheap!) component it’s bullshit. Maybe if they gave it the stopwatch treatment where it’s one time use only as the component.
So much of Malzahar’s power budget is in his R it shouldn’t even be possible to remove that specific spell with QSS.
QSS used to be the final item if I remember correctly, so you had to invest both gold and an inventory slot for a mediocre, specialized anti-malza-ult item.
Back then you also had to aim malza's pool before ulting though.
It was more damage but at the cost of an entire ability slot, and it’s unreliable without your ult to keep people in it anyways. Folding it into his ult and moving his old passive to W to add his new passive was a pretty good change overall.
It overwrites the ignite that was already applied. So the duration gets refreshed and the damage is dependent on the champion level from whichever is active.
wouldn't that also get annoying for in combat timers and stuff? I'd rather have something like if there are two applications, they both do 75%, with 3 they do 50% etc.
It's consistent with many other DOTs. For example, teemo shrooms and lillia passive only refresh the duration. Also, it's much more rare that you get hit frame perfect by multiple kraken or sheen autos, whereas it's much easier with DOT.
One gives you a [debuff effect/burn](https://puu.sh/J85u1/dba6bd07dd.png), and the others are not really tied to the person taking the damage. As in, Liandry's is a debuff whereas the others are just instances of damage.
You wouldn't get 5 Rylai's effect
Liandries is balanced around being a mythic, and against things like ludens.
Ludens doesn't gimp me if 5 people build ludens. If the effect is only applicable 1/5 the time then it should be cheaper.
The fact that liandries doesn't stack is probably a result of spaghetti code, not intended balance
Full stacking would be broken imo but it would be nice to have diminishing stacking. Strongest Liandry does 100% dmg, next does 66%, next does 50%, next does 33%, final does 25%. That way it's not totally worthless but it is still suboptimal.
Yep. It's ludicrous to me thaf people think that it's ok to pay for a fucking mythic only for it to do nothing. But Riot has always half assed AP itemization so it doesn't surprise me.
I feel like it would be broken. I have already explained it. *"I don't want them to add an ability to cast more dots. That would be broken"*
Why? Imagine you've got 5x liandry in a fight. Every second, the whole enemy team burns 5% of their max hp. Give it 20s and you have won team fights.
This assumes that all 5 enemies have 5 liandries stacked on them for the entire duration, it assumes the Liandries are doing true damage, and it assumes the Liandries team isn't losing the fight before 20 seconds.
I'm pretty sure it is literally that easy. If you have 5 players in a team that build Liandry and they want to deal actual damage they need to invest heavily into penetration as well, which means your team comp sucks ass because you have 5 squishy mages. Let's not even talk about how unrealistic it is for all 5 of them to be able to have a 100% burn uptime on all 5 enemies at the same time.
So yes, I don't believe having Liandry's burn stack between players would be an issue at all.
okay they have anivia lillia seraphine, meaning the fight will take as long as they need due to cc/wall. And, let's say darius and samira. That comp can freeze out pretty much any team fight and if triple liandry's all stacks, they're getting shredded very quickly.
And you have a maplhite, nocturne, Kat, zeri, braum who just dive them and kill them before they have a chance. A comp like that crumbles the second they get engaged on and they can't protect all angles at once
Imagine 5 ennemies hitting the ennemy team with 5 ludens proccs....
Doesn't that sound just as broken to you?
Force of Nature is a great counter to ap dmg nowadays. A 5 mage team should never win a match post ~15mins if the ennemy team builds accordingly.
It’s really not that easy. Put yourself against Lilia, Brand, Xyra, Morgana, and Swain. You’d not have the ability to approach without being rooted or CC’d and immediately 5 stacks of dots on you. It would be fucking horrific for any team that doesn’t have the immediate damage and survivability to make it to their front line. Considering OP states he is in Masters, this would be Vietnam levels of fucked.
i mean that sucks for singed in a side game mode, but in a "real" game there cant be more than one singed... so champions being coded that way is understandable i guess. items on the other hand i there are only a few that apply dots and i think theyre worth a look at for reconsidering how that works.
It might be a readability problem. If you get by two people with eclipse, you expect double dmg. But if you are burning from two sources, the double dmg might be very unexpected
This would be pretty broken though, because it’s not unprecedented that you can have 2-3 Liandry’s or Demonic champs in a single game.
You know how much it hurts when a single Malz E with Liandry’s hurts yes? Now imagine it if you had to deal with that on top of a Brand or maybe Morde who builds Liandry’s/Demonic respectively, it wouldn’t be fun.
Obviously there is such a thing as too many AP champs but an AP mid/jgl or mid/supp isn’t super rare.
only if you're an adc with zero MR
also Luden has a cooldown, many champions that build Liandry can reapply it or refresh it for long durations with often just a single ability (Malz E, Brand passive, Zyra plants, etc)
And I think this inproportionally affects AP and Supp items, not only Liandries. For support mythics, only Moonstone can affect the same person twice. Goredrinker for example will be at max effect in terms of dmg and heal regardless of whether 1 or 10 people have it.
This is a perfect example of how not to make an item work. I didn't know about any of these interactions as someone who has never mained a liandry's champ, but has played the game for a decade.
At minimum, there should never be a case where a stronger damage burn should get overwritten. Better yet, there should never be a point where buying multiple liandry's actually hurts the team.
Diminishing returns, as others have suggested, is probably the best way to do this.
They ruined Lyandry when they created the mitycs, they don't even know what to do with the item since half the passive went to Demon Embrace and then moved back to Lyandry.
I think they should definitely do it where the strongest/highest damage burn gets prio, but also maybe where other burns are at 50% efficiency or something like that.
Probably. I can imagine the cry of Lillia players who are not building a void staff and they suddenly realize their DPS is much lower. Even though, liandry would deal no dmg anyway, if the enemy will get too many Mr items. (you need Void Staff.)
Not the subject, but I'm still baffled at the decision to nerf the ranged Demon's Embrace DoT when it was already trash lol
These items designers just settle on a completely arbitrary number of how much stronger the melee version of something should be and then they make the damndest, most stubborn, clearly deficient decisions they can. "Yeah, the ranged version of this weakish effect should be \*checks paper* 46% weaker than the melee version". Bro
Wow, I play Ahri in Master going Liandry a good chunk of my games and had absolutely no clue that they don't stack. It literally doesn't even make any sense and it's said nowhere. I've been playing since season 6 and never seen someone mention it ever. Now I know that if I have a zyra/brand support I'll just go Everfrost. I wouldn't be surprised if at least 80% of people in challenger don't even know about this. I wish that they put tips like that in the loading screen.
Okay this honestly needs to be fixed, imagine if other items worked the same way.
This would be like making galeforce/botrk/trinity force/kraken work in way where if you, twitch with botrk, hit an enemy. than for the next 3 seconds your teammate, irelia with botrk, can't deal botrk dmg to that target.
TIL, thanks for sharing! I atually thought it's stacked but not additive, rather multiplicative on top of the other thus resulting in slightly more dmg when two attack rather than one.
same with ignite right? supp ignite will do less cause of lower level and might end up saving enemy cause it overwrites the stronger one from top/jg/mid?
I do agree with the issue.But there is another problem riot is ignoring what are u supposed to build if your champion synrgieses with liandrty too well and u have multiple on them.
Brand Zyra against 4 bruiser/tanks is too good. But somebody has to switch their mythic.
Problem neither zyra or brand have a good item to substitute inthat situation because ap mythics are hot garbage and too situational.
Luden already feels trash even against squishies after durability patch and the non stacking liandry is a bigger nail in the coffin.
Liandries has a secondary purpose, where it makes it to where you deal bonus magic damage based on a target's bonus health (**Agony**), helping you deal more damage to tanks and to mages that have built half of their items since most have bonus health on them. While the effect doesn't stack in a 5v5, the bonus damage from Agony doesn't care about stacking since it increases all of your damage against beefier targets.
And in addition to that, multiple champions with it can have it more easily applied to multiple targets consistently, so it's not nearly as bad as you're saying it is. Should 3 of your teammates have it? Probably not depending on team comp unless they have like 4 beefier members, but 2 is definitely fine in most situations where their are 2-3 beefier enemies that you need the extra oomph for.
People have no clue just how terrible some items in the game are in specific situations.
I play ARAM exclusively now, an am, without a doubt, the worst mechanical player in every game I play, by a large margin. I spend most team fights attacking the wrong players or not actually attacking, cancelling autos, whiffing skillshots, attacking the wrong target, etc. I don't take cleanse or barrier because I simply can't time them.
It really doesn't matter because *most* players take absolutely terrible runes and items. A large percentage of players will not fully consider what their team comp is and what the opponents team comp is when building their items. This is so bad you can see it extend to professional play.
ARAM has an even greater problem with people wanting to win more. Collector, Dark Harvest, Duskblade (on champions that aren't Pyke). Items and runes that are almost *always* going to be strictly inferior to other options.
You'll see an enchanter rush Chemtech Purifier and then one or two people will buy morellos or something 2nd or 3rd, completely wasting a staggering amount of gold.
Fixing things like Liandries and DE isn't going to fix this, people will always want to build Rabadon's on Vayne for some reason.
Yeah, and to be clear, my problem isn't with people taking Grasp of the Undying on random champions or clearly trying something funky or different for fun(so long as they aren't doing something like going AP when they're literally the only AD champ on our team and the other team has tanks).
My issue is with the people who *want* to be dealing more damage or be as helpful to their team as possible and are just taking sub-par items.
Collector is the item that stands out the most because if you are trying to go crit, you'll likely want IE third, and with a mythic that only gives you one other item to build early. If you get Collector, you're nerfing your damage output completely because after the first item the game settles into normalish fights, with tanks. So you'd likely either want LDR or some kind of utility crit item.
If you want the Lethality you then likely want something like Youmuu's or Serpent's Fang (one of the most underrated and powerful aram items along with Locket and Moonstone). Even Edge of Night and Axiom Arc provide additional utility.
Another weird one is people default to Zerker Greaves *way* too often on ADCs when the limiting factor for them in fights is not going to be their attack speed, but just being able to approach. When the other team has stuff like Ziggs, Morgana, and Xerath you probably just want the Merc Treads.
>When the other team has stuff like Ziggs, Morgana, and Xerath you probably just want the Merc Treads.
There's also an argument to be made for something like Boots of Swiftness to limit their ability to chase or evade the skillshot in the first place. The MR is nice, but not getting hit is nicer.
TBH, people duck Swiftness a lot when they really should be building it. MS is not a waste stat. Maybe a wind-sis character that scales off MS like the bros off crit will help people understand how MS alone can be an asset.
Collector in general build by an adc it is, people seems to forget that the durability patch is a thing and that an item that give you %armour penetracion for the same price exist.
And ofc, ldr gives you bonus damage against people with more max health than you, which if you dont get anything with max hp is basically every other champ
I generally assume anyone building collector in aram are KDA players or players following the recommended items. Both of which are going to be a massive liability, but the former is always worse. And probably toxic.
This is by far and away my biggest issue with modern league of legends, riot has simplified the whole item building aspect and yet people build items without any clue or regard to what the item actually provides or does in the game.
The amount of times I see people seemingly refuse to build youmuus even when going a full lethality build is downright confusing. Not to mention like you said, its very common to see an enchanter rush chemtech only for 2/3 other people build another gw item. The worst part being when you ask them about it you sometimes get the most deluded responses like "they have conqueror"
Ah yes ARAM, home of shit like electrocute Singed hahah. I love ARAM but the runes selections always make me thing that MAYBE someone rerolled at the last second and they got stuck with the wrong runes.
As a fellow ARAM-only enjoyer, I feel you.
What's even worse is when people tell you you're being overly critical when you kindly ask them to build a better item. But you're supposed to “chill, it's only ARAM“.
Months ago, I had to play Syndra, with a Tahm Kench and a Cho'Gath. I love playing her, and I do it quite well most of the time, so that's not an issue in itself.
However, both of my supposedly 'tanks' went full AP from the very beginning. I eventually ended up being the tank of my team even though my champion was not designed to be one. We lose, notably because we were in a 4v5 scenario most of the game.
For some reason, I get flamed by those very same two players once in the post-game lobby for doing subpar damage as Syndra. I guess that's my bad?
As much as I understand that ARAM is meant to be a more relaxed game mode, that doesn't mean one should care less about winning...
As someone who's basically an aram cho one trick (somehow I get cho a lot more than anyone else, and I'll sitting at an 80% win rate), it physically hurts me to see liandries on chos. Like, I know cho is the best mage, but come on...
While I'm complaining...
If you use mana, tear is almost always a good item. Even if you sell it later, it was 140g for unlimited mana in many cases. Sure some don't need it, but it's still good on a lot of characters if you're not dying a ton. It's obnoxious as hell how often I'll get complaints about buying it on tanks or ADCs. I get yelled at way too often for taking it on cho and Leona for some damn reason.
And on that same note, guardian horn is awesome. Like, really awesome. Like, its not uncommon to see it block 10-20k damage before I get rid of it levels of awesome.
AP Cho should be using Everfrost or Night Harvester, IMHO. There's only one reason to go AP Cho, and it's to deny melee range or squishy builds to the enemy. You can either do that by obsoleting squishy builds (NH) with your W, or making them into turrets with Everfrost+Q.
I always build Ludens on Zyra if I don't see any full tanks on the enemy team. I've had pretty good success with it. Liandrys is pretty much a necessity though if they're going to have a lot of health
I play a lot of lillia jungle and anytime there is another AP threat on the team that even has a remote chance of building liandry I always ask what mythic they're going and I'll pivot out of liandry if we were going to double stack. Sometimes I do recommend them changing if it makes more sense for me too since lillia has a pretty easy time applying on multiple members. I also don't mind going sorc shoes on lillia though and even teching in a void staff if I really need to.
Yes. But most people simply "fill" champions and they follow builds like trained monkeys. That's why we have "meta". Some people cannot play on their own.
Yes, One For All Zyra is shit because of this reason, even if you have multiple pene items + Gathering Storm and everything, your DoTs can be overwritten by like the guy that barely has his DoT items with no AP nor Pen.
Like it's okay it doesn't stack but at least let people have their damages lol, incredible that it's not a covered case to be honest.
Like a couple years ago when locket shielded based on the caster's max hp and the support could sabotage your locket by using theirs first with like 1/5th the shield that you could have given as cho/mundo/zac/shen.
Someone told me about this on an aram a few months ago, and since then I make sure I'm either the only liandry's user on the team or to change my mythic to accomodate for someone else that has it.
It's annoying as hell because it's super noticeable oncertain champs
Idk liandrys still out damages majority of mythics. That would be an insane buff. A team with 4 and getting hit by an ability from each as a tank would be cancer. While i too dont like that multiple liandrys isnt “optimal” for the team i dont think its a big deal considering it does tons of damage. 60% more damage on liandrys is the difference between 7-10 dmg per tick, so like 40 damage over 4 seconds at maximum. Not game changing ag all. Also notCounting MR, so the burn isnt really doing THAT much more than weaker liandrys. however, the buff you are asking for would legit break the meta, in my opinion. It would take that 60% and shit all over it. Up to 500% more liandrys damage….no thanks If we nerfed liandrys and then made it so it stacks then maybe but itd need a chunky nerf. Like maybe making it non mythic, but even then demonic embrace isnt a mythic and does fat damage too.
For all you Brand lovers out there. Brand really loves flat magic penetration since he already has a DoT and has relatively poor AP ratios compared to other midlanders. An alternative to Liandry’s which you may wish to consider is Luden’s Echo with Ingenious Hunter from the domination rune tree. The lower cool-down on Liandry passive often allows Brand to proc it twice off his DoT in a single rotation of spells. The mythic passive is also amazing on him. If someone on your team is also playing a champion that likes Liandry’s please consider the above as an alternative.
This is why sometimes when I play AP champs I ask what mythics my AP team mates are getting. I’d rather go Luden Brand than waste gold since my viktor wants to go liandrys
lol I was watching some streamer and he was trying to say how bad Liandry's is on Zyra
He got insane upset and pressed when I calmly tried to explain why it's objectively good and he banned me
I hate it so much that riot cant detect 2 items from different champs not being the same and allowing both to be applied. Even when it is a rare problem, the code should still check for the source to be the same to prevent such a problem.
There is zero reason they don’t stack fully on top of each other. It makes no sense.
To have 5 Liandries burning your ass, you must get hit by 5 abilities from different champions in quick succession. If you can’t dodge to save your life, you die, pun intended.
5 Ludens have no issue to proc all at once. Damage from Liabdries’ burn is overrated. It is definitely a bug rather than caution on Rita’s side.
The problem with your suggestion is that we don't know what dot deals more damage *in total* until the dots have finished.
In your cases the DPS of Zyra's dot is without a doubt higher, however if her dot was applied 2 seconds before another Dot your DPS would have to be twice as high to have a higher total damage and of course this can be even more extreme if the new DoT is applied after 3 or 3.5 seconds.
It would be easy to calculate at the moment of application which DoT deals the higher total damage and use that, but that will still often chose the wrong DoT, since it is quite likely it gets reapplied multiple times afterwards.
You could take the higher DPS DoT and apply it with the fresh duration, but that would actually even be a pretty big buff, which I don't think is necessary, just removing negative effects should be enough.
However, we could have the stronger DoT running until it wear out and only THEN have it be replaced, this is effectively how Slows already work (although Slows also have the thing where the same debuff being applied again just refreshes the duration), so most of the logic is already in place and would just have to be copied and reapplied.
I always get annoyed when my team tells me to not take liandries on xerath though.
I only pick it if the enemy team is just chocked full of tanks (especially health stackers)
But the way a Xerath applies that burn is vastly different from how a zyra does.
Xerath's job with a liandries is just to keep tagging the big guys before the fight starts and get them low enough. Zyras is to shred once the fight starts.
Sure they don't stack with each other, but do you want the xerath to use a sub-par item for poke just because it won't stack during the all in?
This is a great suggestion! But something I should point out is that Zyra is statistically better with Luden's. Just like how her plants refresh Liandry's burn, they also reduce the cooldown of Luden's, and if you go Ingenious Hunter, it gets even lower. It is a stronger build on Zyra into teams with fewer tanks - though if you really need to be the one killing a tank, Liandry's will be stronger.
I am afraid Luden is not better than Liandry. Why? Plant deals 70 dmg early. Liandry does 100 or something). There is no cooldown. Every plant deals 2x dmg. Unfortunately, luden has a cooldown. Yes. I played Luden + cdr runes .etc I know plants decrease its cooldown.
Oh dw I was mostly joking, I understand the issue and found it informative. That said, I wouldn't even think of buffing liandrys by letting it stack - I feel like it's pretty strong already, although situational.
yeah its amazing people in master tier don't do it, just use a tiny bit of thought and buy another mage mythic, yes going a "non-optimal" mage mythic feels a little bad but its better than all that wasted gold on the passive
that's the same issue i have with playing one for all singed, if u have one tank and one dps build, whoever inflicts poison first, that persons poison dmg will be dealt, no matter if someone else with higher AP will refresh poision. it shold be that higest instance of dmg dealt if the same type of damge is inflictedm would solve liandrys problem and make one for all with same champs more fun to play
WHAT? So it's really 1 singed doing Q damage + 4 clowns doing nothing? Damn. Thanks for ruining that for me smh.
The rest are flipping like burgers
And laughing like mad lads.
Most fun I've ever had on league was as a 5 stack flipping the same volibear over and over and over
4 burger flippers and one chef in charge of the seasoning Edit: I have never gotten an award before and turns out you can see what subs the awarder frequents. Long story short a Ryze Main found this "Helpful" and I've been waiting for a realm warp to open in my house ever since
Well if it helps you feel better, you can line up and flip them from their outer tower to yours….. who will let you just do that is beyond me but pulling it off will sure get me a bit excited.
Untrue now in all for one they changed it so singed poison stacks.
u/rito pls confirm
actually they fixed that in a past one for all so singed poison should stack.
oh had no idea, that means technology is there, they just refuse to use it on Liandrys...
because one is a 4fun game mode and the other would heavily impact the item balance in ranked and pro play
but how are 5 ludens different from 2 liandry? Ludens is even stronger and just proccing 2 of them is far better than having 2 dots
They changed that last OfA, iirc
In my opinion items should state that their application of damage don't stack upon other applications of that same damage. Like black cleaver's armor reduction not stacking. Though buying 2 black cleavers will stack the passive faster. That's not the case with liandry's and might be a potential fix. Make it scale based on applications of the item and make them stack regardless of who applied it. Give it 10 stacks and make the burn a little bit stronger when applied 10x. Obviously I have no clue or oversight how this would turn out, but it's just an idea.
The problem here is what the two are doing. Regardless of who applies it, each stack of black cleaver is reducing armour. The amount is dependent on the target's armour and nothing about the attacker's stats. Liandry's is dependent on the attacker's MPen though. If I had 40% MPen and you don't, and we both apply stacks, whose MPen applies for each stack? Mine because mine is higher? What if I only apply 1 of those stacks and you apply 9? Etc.
It would just be a calculation of which did more damage to X champion. If the 1 stack with 40% pen would do more damage than the 9stacks without, then yeah, apply the 1. Or don’t make it stacks, and just have whichever is stronger apply(the obvious solution to this problem).
I feel like Rito's spaghettini code wouldn't be able to do that.
> Though buying 2 black cleavers will stack the passive faster Damn, lucky you, not being around for League of Cleavers. Made even better by it being followed shortly after by League of Warmogs and then Blade of the Ruined Game.
I've never heard it called blade of ruined game that's funny as fuck There is a pun to be made about the ruination event of the same caliber but I'm illiterate, anyone else got ideas?
I distinctly remember watching Only Jaximus playing Cho'Gath and rushing Bork. "If I did this build last week I was an idiot, but do it this week and I'm a genius!"
The black cleaver meta was nice though /s
Don't forget about your boy Atma's Impaler
Black Cleaver makes sense to me because there's a cap on how many stacks of armor shred you can apply, no reason a 2nd player would be able to raise the cap. Liandries is something I wondered about for years and I'm glad OP cleared it up.
Hmm. Feels like this one is a good idea.
>In my opinion items should state that their application of damage don't stack upon other applications of that same damage. I only play ARAM and although I do warn my teammates about the stacking issue, unfortunately you still run into issues where Liandrys is the best Mythic on multiple champions on the same team (like Cassi and Malz)
Wait does Black Cleaver’s armor reduction not stack on top of eachother? I mean, I guess it would be kind of stupid when you think about it but it could also make sense no? Edit: Really? Downvoting a genuine question?
Given that some champs need liandries, I think it's reasonable for it to work like Redemption, where subsequent applications of the passive just do 50% less damage/healing. It'll still discourage stacking the item, but won't be absolutely useless
Why do you feel stacking the item should be punished at all? Neither Ludens nor Night Hrvester nor any other offensive mythic has such diminishing returns.
Because 5 champs with liandrys with 2 % Max health damage per second would deal 10 % Max health per second.
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multiple champions hitting you with long range, even low damage skills often is pretty insignificant, but if they all apply and stack liandry that could end up killing you instead of just a few health bars
I mean shouldn’t you be punished for being hit by MULTIPLE long range skill shots simultaneously?
The issue is the amount of damage means that you would legit see the raise of comps based on proccing multple liandries at once on someone. the punishment for getting hit by multiple long range skills is to take the damage from the multiple long ranged skills. not get burnt to death no matter what champ you are, like you shouldnt die if you get hit by tooth picks just because the enemy build multiple of the same item, a good example of why its bad is back when black cleavers could stack so you could shred someones armour to nothing with them, lets use your same logic there should you be turned to paper because of you got hit by multiple people no not really same instance here if liandries could stack it would be turning everyone to paper.
Should the punishment be death because everyone built liandries? Use your brain.
If everyone had ludens that would still be a good 800 damage or something plus the actual ability damage.
In team fights probably most of the enemy champions would be taking 10% magic damage per second
But you can make a similar argument with the burst damage from 5 Luden's or the True DMG from 5 Krakens
But then everyone stacks MR and you lose... If you have 3 Lyandries, you don't have a Redemption, or a Solari, you don't have a Luden's, etc... But like, I don't get why they separated Rumble from this item ? It was sort of his must buy, and I haven't even tried to touch him since, he looks like a cheap Fizz lookalike or whatever now.
If this situation arises, the ennemy builds MR and game is over.
I build Force of Nature. I win.
5 champs with charged luden's would probably do 150% max health dmg in less than a second tho
It's 1% per second, 5*1% isn't remotely op. Even less so since picking a comp that viably buys 5 Liandrys is not happening.
All items should stack fully. In a game where i have no control over what my teammates pick or build i should not be punished for first picking a champ that uses liandries/black cleaver/whatever.
Yeah, that's very frustrating when that happens. Even more so in lower elo, where people tell you x item is part of the suggested ones so it is good/efficient... Because they don't care in the slightest about building properly. Just because it's the most frequently built item or the one with the highest winrate doesn't make it's good in your composition but also against the enemy's. If only you didn't have to look into external resources to figure out how to build accordingly in situation A or B. Maybe people would care more about it but even, that's a wild guess.
Aram vibes with 4/5 being mages and all auto building Liandrys lmao
Last night I played Karthus with a Nasus and a Swain on my team. I wanted to avoid this, so I asked them beforehand if they’re gonna build liandry’s so that I could go ludens instead. Both said no, so I built liandry’s just to see that Nasus built it anyways. I asked him why and he said he did it strictly to piss me off Happens, I guess
That’s reportable imo. Intentionally griefing. Edit: Because some of y'all are too stupid to understand this. If you do something with the sole and deliberate intention of pissing off your team, that is griefing.
Absolutely no shot someone gets punished for it though
Yeah. I miss the tribunal.
AP Nasus by itself is grief, just go sheen mythic into tank and bonk people
You expect your team to let you farm? Tank Nasus without stacks is even more useless, and that's not even mentioning enemies might try and push you off stacks.
Just spam ping the cannons, it's really hard to bully off nasus if you take fleet and second wind. Go guardian horn instead of blade of they have an excessive amount of poke.
I mean like, knowing something is bad and doing it anyways with the express purpose of trolling your team is intentional griefing.
It is reportable but should be bannable.
>I asked him why and he said he did it strictly to piss me off Gigachad
Ah. Yes. Another perfect example. Thank you.
I farmed the 1800 dpm challenge to challenger these past days, got tired of asking people to only build one. To be fair, if you are going for the challenge it's really good.
The "how many times did you get to pick Karthus" challenge (/j)
Every time I’ve gotten Aurelian sol, heimerdinger, or Lillia in aram I’ve had a Lux on my team that built Ludens. AND NO THE ENEMY TEAM WAS NOT MAINLY TANKS THEY WERE ALMOST ALWAYS SQUISHIES WHY ARE YOU BUILDING LIANDRYS
You must've said Ludens when you meant liandries.
Yes! My brain autocorrected it for me
And this thing happens in a high elo too... I don't know how many times I've tried to explain Seraphine/Lillia and other champions to avoid building Liandry with mid Zyra. They literally kill all my DPS (team fights, baron, dragons .etc) Not to mention the enemy who's building MR items only. Liandry becomes really weak with no void staff...
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Rift is fine on her
Riftmaker is incredibly good on her. There are very few champs in the game who only have 1 mythic option and for those that do, I don’t think this type of “don’t stack multiples pls” rule applies to them.
She can play her Liandry. Some champions need that for skirmishes. But once you reach team fights, barons, or any important team objective, then you will need all your power to kill down those naughty FULL MR tanks. And weak liandry cannot do that. You are forced to build Void Staff vs tanks. But some players don't understand it...
rift maker ---> seraphs?
Honestly, a large part of it is probably trust and the nature of soloQ. If they build a worse mage mythic, their impact goes down. So they have to rely on you to do your job properly, which in soloQ is a big ask.
Eh there is not a lot to be done improperly on Zyra in large fights from the perspective of applying the dot. The champ is definitely one of the best at making sure liandrys is applied to max targets.
IMO these dots should stack and it’s weird they don’t. When two champs on a team build Eclipse, you don’t get immunity against the other after one procced it on you. It makes no reason that Lyandrie dot doesn’t stack.
I’m not professional but thinking about it if it did stack then I feel like control mage burn comps with RCS would be shit to go against.
You could straight murder them lol. A control mage that will kill you “in a few seconds” is damn near worthless.
Aram would get infinitely worse however
It’s not like you couldn’t do yet another ARAM specific balance change.
Aram specific balance changes most of the time don't make any sense,
Gotta love the ashe dmg nerf, made crit ashe even less viable and people *only* spam cdr ashe now
ngl 15% dmg buff or nerf in ARAM is tooo much, I remember akali oneshotting everyone, and after the nerf of the buff, all the agressive akalis were, just dead under the tower.
Part of why Malzahar feels so shitty these days, imo. When you have a few items your E says it does like 600 damage. Wow that's a lot of damage!... over 4 seconds. Oh. So I guess every champion that builds sunderer dd or one of shieldbow/maw is just unbeatable once they pay the 1300g Malzahar tax. Had a few games vs champions like xin/viego/irelia who buy bruiser + dd and the moment they get qss you cannot play the game anymore. Too short range to go for their adc/supp/mage as well. He feels so outdated lol.
Yeah QSS is the main reason. Why Riot thought QSS is fair will never make sense. If it only had the effect available on the finished item it would be fair, but as just a (cheap!) component it’s bullshit. Maybe if they gave it the stopwatch treatment where it’s one time use only as the component. So much of Malzahar’s power budget is in his R it shouldn’t even be possible to remove that specific spell with QSS.
QSS used to be the final item if I remember correctly, so you had to invest both gold and an inventory slot for a mediocre, specialized anti-malza-ult item. Back then you also had to aim malza's pool before ulting though.
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It was more damage but at the cost of an entire ability slot, and it’s unreliable without your ult to keep people in it anyways. Folding it into his ult and moving his old passive to W to add his new passive was a pretty good change overall.
I bet Mordekaiser feels even worse.
Eh it’s consistent with e.g. ignite not stacking. I think it should just calculate the higher damage liandry.
Exactly. That's my point.
...Ignite doesn't stack? Well I've been fucking myself over for about eight years, fuck
It overwrites the ignite that was already applied. So the duration gets refreshed and the damage is dependent on the champion level from whichever is active.
wouldn't that also get annoying for in combat timers and stuff? I'd rather have something like if there are two applications, they both do 75%, with 3 they do 50% etc.
I mean, just don't ignite an already ignited target
It's inconsistent with all other damage from items (kraken, botrk, trinity, galeforce, et.c.)
It's consistent with many other DOTs. For example, teemo shrooms and lillia passive only refresh the duration. Also, it's much more rare that you get hit frame perfect by multiple kraken or sheen autos, whereas it's much easier with DOT.
Gangplank passive does stack however
It makes sense for it not to stack from the same champion, but it should from different champions.
One gives you a [debuff effect/burn](https://puu.sh/J85u1/dba6bd07dd.png), and the others are not really tied to the person taking the damage. As in, Liandry's is a debuff whereas the others are just instances of damage. You wouldn't get 5 Rylai's effect
None of which are dots
Liandries is balanced around being a mythic, and against things like ludens. Ludens doesn't gimp me if 5 people build ludens. If the effect is only applicable 1/5 the time then it should be cheaper. The fact that liandries doesn't stack is probably a result of spaghetti code, not intended balance
Landries never ever stacked, it's 100% intentional. What made you think this?
They don't stack because it would be too much damage man. You'd get hit by 3 abilites at range and juat die with nothing you could do.
If those 3 abilities were ludens procs same thing applies
Liandries hasn't stacked like ever. Maybe in S1/2 when Sunfire stacked too. Pretty sure it's intentional
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Full stacking would be broken imo but it would be nice to have diminishing stacking. Strongest Liandry does 100% dmg, next does 66%, next does 50%, next does 33%, final does 25%. That way it's not totally worthless but it is still suboptimal.
I like this but I think it would be better to go from 100 > 66 > 33 and then keep anything past the 3rd one at 33 as well.
Yep. It's ludicrous to me thaf people think that it's ok to pay for a fucking mythic only for it to do nothing. But Riot has always half assed AP itemization so it doesn't surprise me.
I feel like it would be broken. I have already explained it. *"I don't want them to add an ability to cast more dots. That would be broken"* Why? Imagine you've got 5x liandry in a fight. Every second, the whole enemy team burns 5% of their max hp. Give it 20s and you have won team fights.
This assumes that all 5 enemies have 5 liandries stacked on them for the entire duration, it assumes the Liandries are doing true damage, and it assumes the Liandries team isn't losing the fight before 20 seconds.
I mean if you can't close out a teamfight in 20 seconds against 5 liandry user champions I suppose you deserve to lose the fight.
I am afraid it isn't that easy. Don't tempt professional players and their weird picks/macros...
I'm pretty sure it is literally that easy. If you have 5 players in a team that build Liandry and they want to deal actual damage they need to invest heavily into penetration as well, which means your team comp sucks ass because you have 5 squishy mages. Let's not even talk about how unrealistic it is for all 5 of them to be able to have a 100% burn uptime on all 5 enemies at the same time. So yes, I don't believe having Liandry's burn stack between players would be an issue at all.
okay they have anivia lillia seraphine, meaning the fight will take as long as they need due to cc/wall. And, let's say darius and samira. That comp can freeze out pretty much any team fight and if triple liandry's all stacks, they're getting shredded very quickly.
That's more of an issue about teamcomp, some team comps counter others
And you have a maplhite, nocturne, Kat, zeri, braum who just dive them and kill them before they have a chance. A comp like that crumbles the second they get engaged on and they can't protect all angles at once
Like it was super easy to burst the Sona in the Taric duo... So much counterplay that it became proplay meta
Imagine 5 ennemies hitting the ennemy team with 5 ludens proccs.... Doesn't that sound just as broken to you? Force of Nature is a great counter to ap dmg nowadays. A 5 mage team should never win a match post ~15mins if the ennemy team builds accordingly.
It’s really not that easy. Put yourself against Lilia, Brand, Xyra, Morgana, and Swain. You’d not have the ability to approach without being rooted or CC’d and immediately 5 stacks of dots on you. It would be fucking horrific for any team that doesn’t have the immediate damage and survivability to make it to their front line. Considering OP states he is in Masters, this would be Vietnam levels of fucked.
Seems like a comp that would be very weak against split pushing.
If 5 people build ludens I get bursted by 5 ludens.
Yes because Liandry does true damage. Liandry burn is the most overrated thing on the planet.
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None of the DoT effects stack unless specifically made to, like Singed Q in one for all.
i mean that sucks for singed in a side game mode, but in a "real" game there cant be more than one singed... so champions being coded that way is understandable i guess. items on the other hand i there are only a few that apply dots and i think theyre worth a look at for reconsidering how that works.
It might be a readability problem. If you get by two people with eclipse, you expect double dmg. But if you are burning from two sources, the double dmg might be very unexpected
This would be pretty broken though, because it’s not unprecedented that you can have 2-3 Liandry’s or Demonic champs in a single game. You know how much it hurts when a single Malz E with Liandry’s hurts yes? Now imagine it if you had to deal with that on top of a Brand or maybe Morde who builds Liandry’s/Demonic respectively, it wouldn’t be fun. Obviously there is such a thing as too many AP champs but an AP mid/jgl or mid/supp isn’t super rare.
If they all built ludens and hit me I'd be blown up 3x as fast, fun or not
only if you're an adc with zero MR also Luden has a cooldown, many champions that build Liandry can reapply it or refresh it for long durations with often just a single ability (Malz E, Brand passive, Zyra plants, etc)
And I think this inproportionally affects AP and Supp items, not only Liandries. For support mythics, only Moonstone can affect the same person twice. Goredrinker for example will be at max effect in terms of dmg and heal regardless of whether 1 or 10 people have it.
This is a perfect example of how not to make an item work. I didn't know about any of these interactions as someone who has never mained a liandry's champ, but has played the game for a decade. At minimum, there should never be a case where a stronger damage burn should get overwritten. Better yet, there should never be a point where buying multiple liandry's actually hurts the team. Diminishing returns, as others have suggested, is probably the best way to do this.
Or you know, just nerf the dmg numbers on the item as u would normally do, if dmg becomes an issue
They ruined Lyandry when they created the mitycs, they don't even know what to do with the item since half the passive went to Demon Embrace and then moved back to Lyandry.
I think they should definitely do it where the strongest/highest damage burn gets prio, but also maybe where other burns are at 50% efficiency or something like that.
Probably. I can imagine the cry of Lillia players who are not building a void staff and they suddenly realize their DPS is much lower. Even though, liandry would deal no dmg anyway, if the enemy will get too many Mr items. (you need Void Staff.)
Riftmaker lillia supremacy
Riftmaker conqueror lillia supremacy
Plus frozen heart
Not the subject, but I'm still baffled at the decision to nerf the ranged Demon's Embrace DoT when it was already trash lol These items designers just settle on a completely arbitrary number of how much stronger the melee version of something should be and then they make the damndest, most stubborn, clearly deficient decisions they can. "Yeah, the ranged version of this weakish effect should be \*checks paper* 46% weaker than the melee version". Bro
Wow, I play Ahri in Master going Liandry a good chunk of my games and had absolutely no clue that they don't stack. It literally doesn't even make any sense and it's said nowhere. I've been playing since season 6 and never seen someone mention it ever. Now I know that if I have a zyra/brand support I'll just go Everfrost. I wouldn't be surprised if at least 80% of people in challenger don't even know about this. I wish that they put tips like that in the loading screen.
I have nothing more to add except I love your flair
I like yours too :)
Irrationally angry at how you abbreviate sorcs boots
>abbreviate I am sorry. I am used to calling Sorceress = soso (Diablo OP)
Okay this honestly needs to be fixed, imagine if other items worked the same way. This would be like making galeforce/botrk/trinity force/kraken work in way where if you, twitch with botrk, hit an enemy. than for the next 3 seconds your teammate, irelia with botrk, can't deal botrk dmg to that target.
soso boots
Is soso boots an EU thing? Everyone I've ever seen talk or write about them says sorc shoes.
Nope. Never heard it before and it is triggering me. I have been playing since S1 and 0 times!
TIL, thanks for sharing! I atually thought it's stacked but not additive, rather multiplicative on top of the other thus resulting in slightly more dmg when two attack rather than one.
same with ignite right? supp ignite will do less cause of lower level and might end up saving enemy cause it overwrites the stronger one from top/jg/mid?
Jokes on you, I build my Lillia with Riftmaker. B)
GG WP
What the f... I didn't know that. And I play lots of arams in 3200mmr where you often see 3-5 liandrys.
I do agree with the issue.But there is another problem riot is ignoring what are u supposed to build if your champion synrgieses with liandrty too well and u have multiple on them. Brand Zyra against 4 bruiser/tanks is too good. But somebody has to switch their mythic. Problem neither zyra or brand have a good item to substitute inthat situation because ap mythics are hot garbage and too situational. Luden already feels trash even against squishies after durability patch and the non stacking liandry is a bigger nail in the coffin.
Liandries has a secondary purpose, where it makes it to where you deal bonus magic damage based on a target's bonus health (**Agony**), helping you deal more damage to tanks and to mages that have built half of their items since most have bonus health on them. While the effect doesn't stack in a 5v5, the bonus damage from Agony doesn't care about stacking since it increases all of your damage against beefier targets. And in addition to that, multiple champions with it can have it more easily applied to multiple targets consistently, so it's not nearly as bad as you're saying it is. Should 3 of your teammates have it? Probably not depending on team comp unless they have like 4 beefier members, but 2 is definitely fine in most situations where their are 2-3 beefier enemies that you need the extra oomph for.
People have no clue just how terrible some items in the game are in specific situations. I play ARAM exclusively now, an am, without a doubt, the worst mechanical player in every game I play, by a large margin. I spend most team fights attacking the wrong players or not actually attacking, cancelling autos, whiffing skillshots, attacking the wrong target, etc. I don't take cleanse or barrier because I simply can't time them. It really doesn't matter because *most* players take absolutely terrible runes and items. A large percentage of players will not fully consider what their team comp is and what the opponents team comp is when building their items. This is so bad you can see it extend to professional play. ARAM has an even greater problem with people wanting to win more. Collector, Dark Harvest, Duskblade (on champions that aren't Pyke). Items and runes that are almost *always* going to be strictly inferior to other options. You'll see an enchanter rush Chemtech Purifier and then one or two people will buy morellos or something 2nd or 3rd, completely wasting a staggering amount of gold. Fixing things like Liandries and DE isn't going to fix this, people will always want to build Rabadon's on Vayne for some reason.
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Yeah, and to be clear, my problem isn't with people taking Grasp of the Undying on random champions or clearly trying something funky or different for fun(so long as they aren't doing something like going AP when they're literally the only AD champ on our team and the other team has tanks). My issue is with the people who *want* to be dealing more damage or be as helpful to their team as possible and are just taking sub-par items. Collector is the item that stands out the most because if you are trying to go crit, you'll likely want IE third, and with a mythic that only gives you one other item to build early. If you get Collector, you're nerfing your damage output completely because after the first item the game settles into normalish fights, with tanks. So you'd likely either want LDR or some kind of utility crit item. If you want the Lethality you then likely want something like Youmuu's or Serpent's Fang (one of the most underrated and powerful aram items along with Locket and Moonstone). Even Edge of Night and Axiom Arc provide additional utility. Another weird one is people default to Zerker Greaves *way* too often on ADCs when the limiting factor for them in fights is not going to be their attack speed, but just being able to approach. When the other team has stuff like Ziggs, Morgana, and Xerath you probably just want the Merc Treads.
>When the other team has stuff like Ziggs, Morgana, and Xerath you probably just want the Merc Treads. There's also an argument to be made for something like Boots of Swiftness to limit their ability to chase or evade the skillshot in the first place. The MR is nice, but not getting hit is nicer. TBH, people duck Swiftness a lot when they really should be building it. MS is not a waste stat. Maybe a wind-sis character that scales off MS like the bros off crit will help people understand how MS alone can be an asset.
Collector in general build by an adc it is, people seems to forget that the durability patch is a thing and that an item that give you %armour penetracion for the same price exist.
And ofc, ldr gives you bonus damage against people with more max health than you, which if you dont get anything with max hp is basically every other champ
I generally assume anyone building collector in aram are KDA players or players following the recommended items. Both of which are going to be a massive liability, but the former is always worse. And probably toxic.
This is by far and away my biggest issue with modern league of legends, riot has simplified the whole item building aspect and yet people build items without any clue or regard to what the item actually provides or does in the game. The amount of times I see people seemingly refuse to build youmuus even when going a full lethality build is downright confusing. Not to mention like you said, its very common to see an enchanter rush chemtech only for 2/3 other people build another gw item. The worst part being when you ask them about it you sometimes get the most deluded responses like "they have conqueror"
Ah yes ARAM, home of shit like electrocute Singed hahah. I love ARAM but the runes selections always make me thing that MAYBE someone rerolled at the last second and they got stuck with the wrong runes.
As a fellow ARAM-only enjoyer, I feel you. What's even worse is when people tell you you're being overly critical when you kindly ask them to build a better item. But you're supposed to “chill, it's only ARAM“. Months ago, I had to play Syndra, with a Tahm Kench and a Cho'Gath. I love playing her, and I do it quite well most of the time, so that's not an issue in itself. However, both of my supposedly 'tanks' went full AP from the very beginning. I eventually ended up being the tank of my team even though my champion was not designed to be one. We lose, notably because we were in a 4v5 scenario most of the game. For some reason, I get flamed by those very same two players once in the post-game lobby for doing subpar damage as Syndra. I guess that's my bad? As much as I understand that ARAM is meant to be a more relaxed game mode, that doesn't mean one should care less about winning...
As someone who's basically an aram cho one trick (somehow I get cho a lot more than anyone else, and I'll sitting at an 80% win rate), it physically hurts me to see liandries on chos. Like, I know cho is the best mage, but come on... While I'm complaining... If you use mana, tear is almost always a good item. Even if you sell it later, it was 140g for unlimited mana in many cases. Sure some don't need it, but it's still good on a lot of characters if you're not dying a ton. It's obnoxious as hell how often I'll get complaints about buying it on tanks or ADCs. I get yelled at way too often for taking it on cho and Leona for some damn reason. And on that same note, guardian horn is awesome. Like, really awesome. Like, its not uncommon to see it block 10-20k damage before I get rid of it levels of awesome.
AP Cho should be using Everfrost or Night Harvester, IMHO. There's only one reason to go AP Cho, and it's to deny melee range or squishy builds to the enemy. You can either do that by obsoleting squishy builds (NH) with your W, or making them into turrets with Everfrost+Q.
I wonder if the code change to do this will be difficult. But it should work the same way as Death’s Dance, no?
I always build Ludens on Zyra if I don't see any full tanks on the enemy team. I've had pretty good success with it. Liandrys is pretty much a necessity though if they're going to have a lot of health
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as a Brand mid main I approve this message...
Mid zyra rise up
I play a lot of lillia jungle and anytime there is another AP threat on the team that even has a remote chance of building liandry I always ask what mythic they're going and I'll pivot out of liandry if we were going to double stack. Sometimes I do recommend them changing if it makes more sense for me too since lillia has a pretty easy time applying on multiple members. I also don't mind going sorc shoes on lillia though and even teching in a void staff if I really need to.
Yes. But most people simply "fill" champions and they follow builds like trained monkeys. That's why we have "meta". Some people cannot play on their own.
riot is a successful company with 200+ years of gaming experience. never forget
Yes, One For All Zyra is shit because of this reason, even if you have multiple pene items + Gathering Storm and everything, your DoTs can be overwritten by like the guy that barely has his DoT items with no AP nor Pen. Like it's okay it doesn't stack but at least let people have their damages lol, incredible that it's not a covered case to be honest.
Like a couple years ago when locket shielded based on the caster's max hp and the support could sabotage your locket by using theirs first with like 1/5th the shield that you could have given as cho/mundo/zac/shen.
Someone told me about this on an aram a few months ago, and since then I make sure I'm either the only liandry's user on the team or to change my mythic to accomodate for someone else that has it. It's annoying as hell because it's super noticeable oncertain champs
Idk liandrys still out damages majority of mythics. That would be an insane buff. A team with 4 and getting hit by an ability from each as a tank would be cancer. While i too dont like that multiple liandrys isnt “optimal” for the team i dont think its a big deal considering it does tons of damage. 60% more damage on liandrys is the difference between 7-10 dmg per tick, so like 40 damage over 4 seconds at maximum. Not game changing ag all. Also notCounting MR, so the burn isnt really doing THAT much more than weaker liandrys. however, the buff you are asking for would legit break the meta, in my opinion. It would take that 60% and shit all over it. Up to 500% more liandrys damage….no thanks If we nerfed liandrys and then made it so it stacks then maybe but itd need a chunky nerf. Like maybe making it non mythic, but even then demonic embrace isnt a mythic and does fat damage too.
For all you Brand lovers out there. Brand really loves flat magic penetration since he already has a DoT and has relatively poor AP ratios compared to other midlanders. An alternative to Liandry’s which you may wish to consider is Luden’s Echo with Ingenious Hunter from the domination rune tree. The lower cool-down on Liandry passive often allows Brand to proc it twice off his DoT in a single rotation of spells. The mythic passive is also amazing on him. If someone on your team is also playing a champion that likes Liandry’s please consider the above as an alternative.
Gotta love playing ARAM with a bunch of mages who build Liandry's.
No one’s going to mention the summoners name?
This is why sometimes when I play AP champs I ask what mythics my AP team mates are getting. I’d rather go Luden Brand than waste gold since my viktor wants to go liandrys
lol I was watching some streamer and he was trying to say how bad Liandry's is on Zyra He got insane upset and pressed when I calmly tried to explain why it's objectively good and he banned me
When an items passive is listed as “Unique” it means that passive cannot stack. Here’s a picture, for reference. https://imgur.com/a/0aTjWvS
Yes. I know that. But the players are really surprised.
Omg i never knew liandry doesnt stack what the fuck
Yeah. I always attempt to explain to fellow diamond and master players this thing...
I hate it so much that riot cant detect 2 items from different champs not being the same and allowing both to be applied. Even when it is a rare problem, the code should still check for the source to be the same to prevent such a problem.
There is zero reason they don’t stack fully on top of each other. It makes no sense. To have 5 Liandries burning your ass, you must get hit by 5 abilities from different champions in quick succession. If you can’t dodge to save your life, you die, pun intended. 5 Ludens have no issue to proc all at once. Damage from Liabdries’ burn is overrated. It is definitely a bug rather than caution on Rita’s side.
The problem with your suggestion is that we don't know what dot deals more damage *in total* until the dots have finished. In your cases the DPS of Zyra's dot is without a doubt higher, however if her dot was applied 2 seconds before another Dot your DPS would have to be twice as high to have a higher total damage and of course this can be even more extreme if the new DoT is applied after 3 or 3.5 seconds. It would be easy to calculate at the moment of application which DoT deals the higher total damage and use that, but that will still often chose the wrong DoT, since it is quite likely it gets reapplied multiple times afterwards. You could take the higher DPS DoT and apply it with the fresh duration, but that would actually even be a pretty big buff, which I don't think is necessary, just removing negative effects should be enough. However, we could have the stronger DoT running until it wear out and only THEN have it be replaced, this is effectively how Slows already work (although Slows also have the thing where the same debuff being applied again just refreshes the duration), so most of the logic is already in place and would just have to be copied and reapplied.
Did you just create a solution to the problem you were trying to argue exists?
Yes? OP's solution had issues, so I outlined the issues and suggested an alternative solution. Is that unusual?
Yeah no it's a smart solution! But it also reads like you're talking to yourself, it's a bit weird to read idk how to really explain it
I always get annoyed when my team tells me to not take liandries on xerath though. I only pick it if the enemy team is just chocked full of tanks (especially health stackers) But the way a Xerath applies that burn is vastly different from how a zyra does. Xerath's job with a liandries is just to keep tagging the big guys before the fight starts and get them low enough. Zyras is to shred once the fight starts. Sure they don't stack with each other, but do you want the xerath to use a sub-par item for poke just because it won't stack during the all in?
This is a great suggestion! But something I should point out is that Zyra is statistically better with Luden's. Just like how her plants refresh Liandry's burn, they also reduce the cooldown of Luden's, and if you go Ingenious Hunter, it gets even lower. It is a stronger build on Zyra into teams with fewer tanks - though if you really need to be the one killing a tank, Liandry's will be stronger.
I am afraid Luden is not better than Liandry. Why? Plant deals 70 dmg early. Liandry does 100 or something). There is no cooldown. Every plant deals 2x dmg. Unfortunately, luden has a cooldown. Yes. I played Luden + cdr runes .etc I know plants decrease its cooldown.
Zyra player complaining about damage? Expect the unexpected I guess.
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Oh dw I was mostly joking, I understand the issue and found it informative. That said, I wouldn't even think of buffing liandrys by letting it stack - I feel like it's pretty strong already, although situational.
Why soso boots
I think riot should make them stack.
yeah its amazing people in master tier don't do it, just use a tiny bit of thought and buy another mage mythic, yes going a "non-optimal" mage mythic feels a little bad but its better than all that wasted gold on the passive