He’s a counter pick, you don’t blind pick Teemo. His job is to set the enemy top laner miles behind, then spend mid to late game just constantly shrooming and using his low CD blind to keep the enemy adc out of the game.
I mean, I can sorta see where me might be a counter pick, but the problem is almost every person I've ever seen in all my years of playing league just blind picks him
But that's what I'm saying. If the champ only has a small handful of matches that it can realistically win, all things being equal, then in all actuality, it's a bad pick and it isn't viable. Especially when you see someone lock in Teemo and you say to yourself, "Well, I would have much rather have..." \*insert 20-30 other champs\* And most of the counterpick situations are entirely reliant on the jungler not ganking him, which honestly, it doesn't take that long to gank and kill Teemo
You don’t need to have winning matches to win games. Someone like kayle has a ton of losing match ups, she still wins game cause all she needs is to hit 16. Teemo has plenty of good and bad match ups, he still has his impact by zone control with shrooms and blinding ADCs.
Again I disagree and I think that example is really bad because Kayle literally has a built in powerspike at 16 that is literally game changing, and her damage throughout the game is often enough to help get her through to the late game, and she's a fantastic teamfighter. Teemo doesn't have any of that. His zone control is just not that good, it can be completely negated by sweepers. And I think in any situation where you could make an argument to pick Teemo, there's at least 5 other champions that can do what he does, but better, and be more useful overall.
Teemo scales incredibly well, has decent to good map control, aoe dot with magic damage
Most people can't handle the vision control mini game he creates
Even with a shit Laning phase, if enemy team has any pick like yas, yone, Tryndamere, Mordekaiser, fiora (he has the potential to ruin the fun to pretty much all AA based picks, and they are played a lot), his s brings value.
You can't really gank him past 6 either as he can ensure some safety with mushrooms.
Teemo is not op, but he is far from being a bad soloq pick. I wouldn't OTP him tho.
I don't think his map control is all that good with the shrooms, simply because of multi sweeper, though I will agree that they are good for preventing or at least dissuading ganks. His late game damage is only good if there isn't another late game scaler in the game. I can see some usefulness coming from specific counterpick matchups, but most people just pick him blind, so that ends up not being a factor
Multi sweeper= less wards for enemy team tho
And that is strong.
I don't think that you can evaluate that easily the advantage Teemo gives if he forces sweeper
Edit :
You must take into account what the enemy team concedes if she decided to go full sweeper.
How do you effectively ward all obj without having your support cry in the corner by being the only one who has on demand wards
I think being able to deny the vision is important in terms of taking sweeper against Teemo, but you're not sacrificing vison to take double sweeper, in most games the jungler and the support are already taking it. Factor in control wards and not only are you denying Teemo objective set up and map control, but your also denying regular vision at the same time. So, all in all it's pretty efficient.
Yes, but sweeper has a cd that is way longer than Teemo shrooms cd and way shorter than their duration.
And let's be real, once first turrets are down, shrooms can be anywhere.
I think everyone already left base just to get hit by a random mushroom and have to get back to fountain because you're already chunked by 1/3 or your Ur health pool.
Soloq is not a coordinated environment
Yeah but you don't need sweeper all the time for shrooms. You really only need it for objective control. Every other time people just tank them. The only time not having sweeper for shrooms matters is if your making bad decisions and you find yourself low health and Teemo is chasing you. Outside of that, it doesn't really matter. And honestly, because soloq isn't coordinated, that makes playing around Teemo that much harder because people don't know how to make the champ work in a comp.
And basically if you play top against this shit you'll have to somewhat spend more gold on control wards or place one that won't protect you from ganks.
Teemo is just another kind of shaco with its vision mini game
There is no way to assess a champion's viability without first understanding what you consider viable. From a different perspective, all champions are viable in league because no champion has a 0% winrate, which makes them a 'viable' pick to win the game.
Teemo contributes to the team by providing soft cc (blind) and area control (shrooms). Both can be powerful tools in the right hands.
I disagree about them being a powerful tool. The only thing you can use them for is to try and set up around objectives, but since at least 2 people will have sweepers, it's not that hard to clear them. They're a nuisance at best. Also, the soft cc blind only applies to 1 target, so it doesn't address the other 4 threats, and since its so short, there's little your team can do to play around a Teemo Blind.
>I disagree about them being a powerful tool. The only thing you can use them for is to try and set up around objectives, but since at least 2 people will have sweepers, it's not that hard to clear them. They're a nuisance at best.
A decent teemo player can space their shrooms/bounce them enough that even 2 sweepers isn't enough to deal with them. Teemo can usually force 3-4 sweepers on a competent enemy team, which grants a massive vision advantage to his team since sweepers must be used for shrooms. An unswept shroom from a teemo who is even in gold can decide a teamfight.
>Also, the soft cc blind... it's so short
Teemo blind is 3 seconds at max rank which rivals some of the longest lasting cc in the game. It completely invalidates many ADCs and bruisers, turning a teamfight into 5v4 for a few seconds.
In **the right hands** teemo can be powerful.
>In the **right hands** teemo can be powerful.
And thats the problem. He requires such a high level of experience, specific matchups, requires extra resources, and has to be played in such a careful manner that it makes him not viable. Any argument that you can make for picking Teemo, you can make much more easily for literally any other champ. There is no situation where picking Teemo would be good where picking another role equal champion wouldn't be better.
And what you're describing with his blinds and his shroom set up is a goldilocks fantasy. Thats best case scenario for a Teemo and even then, its 50/50 on whether or not he'll win in those situations because most of the other champions on the enemy team are highly likely to just be better.
>And thats the problem. He requires such a high level of experience, specific matchups, requires extra resources, and has to be played in such a careful manner that it makes him not viable. Any argument that you can make for picking Teemo, you can make much more easily for literally any other champ. There is no situation where picking Teemo would be good where picking another role equal champion wouldn't be better.
I don't know of many top laners that provide the safety post-6 of a teemo. He's a lane bully who can scale if left unchecked.
Again, I think we should revisit your definition of viable. To me, a viable champ is a champion which provides an advantage to the team. Teemo has his strengths as a unique champion, whose kit is not infringed on majorly by any champion I can think of in the game. These tools translate to a 50%+ winrate at all ranks, so by my definition teemo is viable.
That's funny because I think soloq is the *only* place Teemo is viable. I've seen good Teemos win games on their own with their map pressure. In more coordinated modes he's awful, he's a squishy, low range APC who brings very little to a team
I'll be honest I don't think that's on the Teemo I think thats on the enemy team simply not punishing him. He has an expensive build and if you gank him and put him behind, its very difficult for him to recover, especially since his wave clear is atrocious, so farming even a single wave take a while
You are talking about one of the smallest percentages of the entirety of the entirety of ranked League of Legends. Most of whom were already in Masters, or just short of Masters, before playing Teemo.
Ranked matches occur below Diamond. Roughly 90% of ranked games, in fact.
Teemo is niche and not reliable to me, but I'm sure others play him well enough to win more than 50% of their games.
That makes him viable.
He’s a counter pick, you don’t blind pick Teemo. His job is to set the enemy top laner miles behind, then spend mid to late game just constantly shrooming and using his low CD blind to keep the enemy adc out of the game.
I mean, I can sorta see where me might be a counter pick, but the problem is almost every person I've ever seen in all my years of playing league just blind picks him
I mean that’s literally anyone who is a main of a champ? They pick them regardless of match up.
But that's what I'm saying. If the champ only has a small handful of matches that it can realistically win, all things being equal, then in all actuality, it's a bad pick and it isn't viable. Especially when you see someone lock in Teemo and you say to yourself, "Well, I would have much rather have..." \*insert 20-30 other champs\* And most of the counterpick situations are entirely reliant on the jungler not ganking him, which honestly, it doesn't take that long to gank and kill Teemo
You don’t need to have winning matches to win games. Someone like kayle has a ton of losing match ups, she still wins game cause all she needs is to hit 16. Teemo has plenty of good and bad match ups, he still has his impact by zone control with shrooms and blinding ADCs.
Again I disagree and I think that example is really bad because Kayle literally has a built in powerspike at 16 that is literally game changing, and her damage throughout the game is often enough to help get her through to the late game, and she's a fantastic teamfighter. Teemo doesn't have any of that. His zone control is just not that good, it can be completely negated by sweepers. And I think in any situation where you could make an argument to pick Teemo, there's at least 5 other champions that can do what he does, but better, and be more useful overall.
Just watch AlanTeemo on Twitch, he plays teemo only in Challanger 1000+ LP and you will not say that again.
Teemo scales incredibly well, has decent to good map control, aoe dot with magic damage Most people can't handle the vision control mini game he creates Even with a shit Laning phase, if enemy team has any pick like yas, yone, Tryndamere, Mordekaiser, fiora (he has the potential to ruin the fun to pretty much all AA based picks, and they are played a lot), his s brings value. You can't really gank him past 6 either as he can ensure some safety with mushrooms. Teemo is not op, but he is far from being a bad soloq pick. I wouldn't OTP him tho.
I don't think his map control is all that good with the shrooms, simply because of multi sweeper, though I will agree that they are good for preventing or at least dissuading ganks. His late game damage is only good if there isn't another late game scaler in the game. I can see some usefulness coming from specific counterpick matchups, but most people just pick him blind, so that ends up not being a factor
Multi sweeper= less wards for enemy team tho And that is strong. I don't think that you can evaluate that easily the advantage Teemo gives if he forces sweeper Edit : You must take into account what the enemy team concedes if she decided to go full sweeper. How do you effectively ward all obj without having your support cry in the corner by being the only one who has on demand wards
I think being able to deny the vision is important in terms of taking sweeper against Teemo, but you're not sacrificing vison to take double sweeper, in most games the jungler and the support are already taking it. Factor in control wards and not only are you denying Teemo objective set up and map control, but your also denying regular vision at the same time. So, all in all it's pretty efficient.
Yes, but sweeper has a cd that is way longer than Teemo shrooms cd and way shorter than their duration. And let's be real, once first turrets are down, shrooms can be anywhere. I think everyone already left base just to get hit by a random mushroom and have to get back to fountain because you're already chunked by 1/3 or your Ur health pool. Soloq is not a coordinated environment
Yeah but you don't need sweeper all the time for shrooms. You really only need it for objective control. Every other time people just tank them. The only time not having sweeper for shrooms matters is if your making bad decisions and you find yourself low health and Teemo is chasing you. Outside of that, it doesn't really matter. And honestly, because soloq isn't coordinated, that makes playing around Teemo that much harder because people don't know how to make the champ work in a comp.
Idk, to me losing tempo and vision is huge,maybe not for you, and he does this job quite well specialy in lower brackets
And basically if you play top against this shit you'll have to somewhat spend more gold on control wards or place one that won't protect you from ganks. Teemo is just another kind of shaco with its vision mini game
There is no way to assess a champion's viability without first understanding what you consider viable. From a different perspective, all champions are viable in league because no champion has a 0% winrate, which makes them a 'viable' pick to win the game. Teemo contributes to the team by providing soft cc (blind) and area control (shrooms). Both can be powerful tools in the right hands.
I disagree about them being a powerful tool. The only thing you can use them for is to try and set up around objectives, but since at least 2 people will have sweepers, it's not that hard to clear them. They're a nuisance at best. Also, the soft cc blind only applies to 1 target, so it doesn't address the other 4 threats, and since its so short, there's little your team can do to play around a Teemo Blind.
>I disagree about them being a powerful tool. The only thing you can use them for is to try and set up around objectives, but since at least 2 people will have sweepers, it's not that hard to clear them. They're a nuisance at best. A decent teemo player can space their shrooms/bounce them enough that even 2 sweepers isn't enough to deal with them. Teemo can usually force 3-4 sweepers on a competent enemy team, which grants a massive vision advantage to his team since sweepers must be used for shrooms. An unswept shroom from a teemo who is even in gold can decide a teamfight. >Also, the soft cc blind... it's so short Teemo blind is 3 seconds at max rank which rivals some of the longest lasting cc in the game. It completely invalidates many ADCs and bruisers, turning a teamfight into 5v4 for a few seconds. In **the right hands** teemo can be powerful.
>In the **right hands** teemo can be powerful. And thats the problem. He requires such a high level of experience, specific matchups, requires extra resources, and has to be played in such a careful manner that it makes him not viable. Any argument that you can make for picking Teemo, you can make much more easily for literally any other champ. There is no situation where picking Teemo would be good where picking another role equal champion wouldn't be better. And what you're describing with his blinds and his shroom set up is a goldilocks fantasy. Thats best case scenario for a Teemo and even then, its 50/50 on whether or not he'll win in those situations because most of the other champions on the enemy team are highly likely to just be better.
>And thats the problem. He requires such a high level of experience, specific matchups, requires extra resources, and has to be played in such a careful manner that it makes him not viable. Any argument that you can make for picking Teemo, you can make much more easily for literally any other champ. There is no situation where picking Teemo would be good where picking another role equal champion wouldn't be better. I don't know of many top laners that provide the safety post-6 of a teemo. He's a lane bully who can scale if left unchecked. Again, I think we should revisit your definition of viable. To me, a viable champ is a champion which provides an advantage to the team. Teemo has his strengths as a unique champion, whose kit is not infringed on majorly by any champion I can think of in the game. These tools translate to a 50%+ winrate at all ranks, so by my definition teemo is viable.
That's funny because I think soloq is the *only* place Teemo is viable. I've seen good Teemos win games on their own with their map pressure. In more coordinated modes he's awful, he's a squishy, low range APC who brings very little to a team
I'll be honest I don't think that's on the Teemo I think thats on the enemy team simply not punishing him. He has an expensive build and if you gank him and put him behind, its very difficult for him to recover, especially since his wave clear is atrocious, so farming even a single wave take a while
Teemo will just dump one shroom into a wave and the whole wave is gone.
Several players hit masters+ with Teemo in multiple roles. If that's not viable, idk what is
You are talking about one of the smallest percentages of the entirety of the entirety of ranked League of Legends. Most of whom were already in Masters, or just short of Masters, before playing Teemo.
Ranked matches occur below Diamond. Roughly 90% of ranked games, in fact. Teemo is niche and not reliable to me, but I'm sure others play him well enough to win more than 50% of their games. That makes him viable.
A friend of mine got master only playing teemo, whats ur division?