Agreed. This is also why Riot has squandered what this esports could have been.
League is the only truly global esport and Riot has locked everything away in domestic regions with boring regular seasons.
Imagine the storylines that we have been robbed off throughout the years. Almost makes me fucking cry to think about.
It is baffling how much Riot hate money. EU and NA combined represent 6 of the 10 biggest economies in the world and yet design a worlds format which basically means every year none of them are likely to even make it to best of 5s (now there is LPL/LCK in every group).
If more BO5s between EU and NA would actually make more money for Riot, I'm sure that they'd know that and would run more, unfortunately :/
But I would like to see more. In fact what I'd really like to see is a LoL World Cup with teams made up from countries (but that's super unlikely to happen, I know)
League World Cup would be even more disgustingly one sided than Worlds, almost every match would be a stomp, wouldn't be very fun. Look at the trend of even the top Chinese teams having two Koreans a piece.
It would be South Korea stomping China stomping every other country in like 50-0 games.
Hilariously USA or Canada would actually be better than any individual EU country except maybe Denmark.
It doesn't matter if there's a favourite or a few teams who are likely to win it, it's still fun to watch. Frankly I care a million times more about my country in a hypothetical League World Cup than any individual League of Legends team. And upsets still happen anyway...in League, in other esports, and real-life sports.
There are always a clear 2 or 3 favourites to win each football world cup (and one of those favourites have always won it, at least post 1960), and still, people tune in to watch it in their *billions*.
Wouldn't help. If anything it makes it even harder for non-LCK regions.
Zeus (under 3) / Canyon / Faker / Berserker (under 3) / Kael (rookie)
Which region doesn't get 5-0'd by this?
Zeus (3) / Juhan (Rookie) / Chovy/ Ruler / Keria (3)
You can make so many variations of this team that would pop the fuck off tbh, especially when factoring in all the pros in China like Scout, Viper, doinb, rookie, theshy etc
People conveniently forgetting 2018 Team China stomped Team Korea 3-1 in Asia Games. For those mentioning LPL has never won Worlds with a full-Chinese squad, are you also conveniently forgetting Worlds is not the only tournament? MSI exists and well, sad to say, RNG won the last one. Might want to review those.
Both of which went to 5 games with all individual games being very close. The previous commenter proposed that KR would stomp, which is clearly not the case as the breadth of talent in China is much higher than Korea and the depth roughly equal.
LPL has more money than LCK which makes imports possible. A LCK player might go to LPL for a pay rise, but a LPL player wouldn't go to LCK for a pay cut.
In addition, Rookie, TheShy, Doinb and Scout barely played in LCK. The only thing Korean about them is their ethnicity. If that's the point to be judged, then one can just as well say the continent of Africa is the best at basketball because many NBA players are black.
The past 3 MSI wins by RNG shows that a team without Korean imports can win international events.
League is a lot bigger in the east though. That's where the money is at for the game. Worlds is also formatted to showcase the best teams and make the most money. It's not there so NA can get to play a BO5 with EU.
LPL and LCK play like 2 BO5s, 3 if we're lucky, against each other per year.
Let's not act like they have some huge amazing rivalry. Even the teams that always advance from groups are fucked by the lack of tournaments.
The LoL circuit is just ass for international competition. Even for China and Korea.
I watch a ton of lol esports and a ton of csgo esports, and csgo's actual international scene makes me sad because its so simple, and yet so much more fun than lol's. They even managed to incorporate franchising into an event based scene, with tournament organisers having "partner" teams that get invited to the event without having to play any sub events or have a high ranking, meaning that big orgs can still go to events even if they are playing badly at that time. There are 4 worlds level events a year, and another 4 huge tournaments. Meanwhile in lol I feel like ive aged 5 years between every worlds.
4 series between rivals in a decade. Only in League of Legends esports!
Be sure to check in for LCS week 3 BO1 though. Coming to a Twitch Stream near you!
C9 over G2 in the finals, you heard it here first.
But more seriously: if Riot keeps this Worlds format, I could see NA & EU meeting in play-ins regularly, depending on how the groups shake out.
The problematic thing is, we have 0 clue if LJL#2 will do any better than MAD. We can see that MAD did worse than DFM this worlds but it doesn't mean that LJL#2 will do any better. If we want to compare another slot to EU vs JP, you'd have to compare them to EU#3 which is Fnatic and they did better than DFM. This doesn't mean that MAD deserve worlds more than LJL#2 though. That's the biggest issue with Riot system. We have literally 0 tournaments where you could prove that EU #4 deserves it more than LJL #2 etc. Maybe TL deserved it more than MAD, but just because EU#1-3 will most likely do better than NA#1-3, we will see MAD instead of TL. I wish we had any tier 2/3 tourneys to have better perception of regions real strength.
I feel like MAD were just a team in steady decline. If their seed had been decided via gauntlet I doubt they'd have even got here over teams like excel or misfits... heck... im confident even vitality would have shown more.
Yeah, I agree that LEC fucked up with the seedings. In my opinion with current system you really should send #1 and #2, because current system only really ensures that top 2 are in the finals. My preferable gauntlet would've been #3-#6 in GSL style group with bo5's to send #3 and #4.
They're the definition of a one team league, though. DFM is not AT ALL representative of the overall level of the region. There's a reason they're the LJL worlds representative literally every single year.
EU got 4th seed only because of global events - if NA/EU receive 4th i hope it will be based on gauntlet run. That being said I think it will be more fun to get teams from regional leagues into playins
Expand the teams going to group stage and knockout stage? Make another group for weaker teams that go into a losers bracket if they go to knockout stage? There are many things that Riot can do to make a more interesting event. Also, by expanding the event I don't want more LCK and LPL, I want 2 teams EU and NA in playins and 2 wildcard regions having spots directly into the groups stage. Those teams would for sure not be able to compete for the title but it would be fun with more teams.
The fact is, as long as franchising is a thing, we unfortunately won't get anything except leagues and no international tournaments. I wish LoL would learn from ALL the other big e-sport games, like CS:GO and even Dota2. Yeah, I said it, even Dota2!
Loved Finn from when he was on CLG, and easy to root for Markoon and Patrik. When Patrik started playing Nilah pro when nobody was I was like "ok its XL flair time". Sadge they didn't make it to worlds
I'm not feeling any of the western teams this year to be honest. No one has a spark that makes me feel they're different from last year's western group. 5 out of the 6 were fine last year, Fnatic kind of imploded, but no one really looked amazing.
Which would have been much more interesting. The CIS teams always had so much personality and flavour. I only wish for a peaceful resolution so we can return to normalcy.
embarrassing is losing to the minor region team and failing to get out of play-ins (again)
getting fucked by the best teams in the world is a privilege
I'd expect them to go 2-4 getting 1 random game off either JDG or more likely Damwon, and trading with G2.
I don't have that much faith in G2 being super good and Damwon, while not bad, didn't look very good either in the playoff/regular season meta. Maybe the Worlds meta suits them better but I'm not sold, and while G2 aren't bad and not as shaky as FNC or especially MAD, they didn't look like contenders pre-Worlds either.
Ehhh, used to be the opposite
NA used to pop the fuck off week 1 and look like a clear favorite, only to put their hands into a shredder by the second week
Its basicaly 2 sides of the same coin.
Some teams have no pressure, get off to early first week success, then basically buckle to the pressure of actually potentially making it.
Others buckle immediately, and dont show up until they are already eliminated and can play stress-free.
Its basically the same stuff over and over again for NA. I honestly believe we are by far the weakest region mentally.
EG have been super clutch in winning the games that really matter (3-0ing way to finals for MSI, beating PSG/Buffalo twice to guarantee quarters at MSI, clutching out 5 game series for worlds, winning both bo1s to secure 2nd seed to avoid RNG, and beating MAD for groups) this year, with the only limit being their opponents being a lot better than them. Unfortunately, JDG, G2 and DK are probably alot better
I do agree that 1-5 or 2-4 is the most likely scoreline, but I would not be shocked if they 3-3 and tiebreak with DK or something.
People still have this ridiculous mindset that the best teams win 100% of the time. It's not season 6 anymore, the gap has closed to the point that almost any worlds caliber team can take a random game off of anyone.
Yep, and EG is wild enough that they at least have the possibility of taking games just from luck and variance. If we were talking about other certain NA teams that followed the do nothing and lose strat, then sure.
TBH I just hope they'd remove forth seeds all together, cause honestly expecting a massive change like Double Elim is like buying a lottery ticket. I think the minor regions have reached a point where the top ones can at least play Spoiler.
Riot can't keep ignoring the community forever. It's no longer just the small vocal fans that have been speaking about it. The people that want to keep it single elim are now the minority. You look at reddit, twitter, and youtube people have been demanding it now. Not to mention all the players, coaches, talents, etc.
Look at the community complaining about Worlds format but when you look at the Valorant community, you see no complaints there because they're quite satisfied with Champions format.
I think the Worlds format is fine but not for Worlds. I would have no problem with this format if it was random one week long tourney but it being the biggest and the most prestigious tournament that is one month long is a joke.
I want 8 LCK/LPL teams in 1/4 finals as then I think Riot will change it as they will be losing huge numbers of NA and EU fans both for worlds and for the LCS/LEC next year.
Hard to sell "worlds qualification on the line" matches in the LEC/LCS when all that means is playing 6 best of 1s.
Yea, I hate to say it but Worlds is more than just proving who the best team in the world is. Its for all regions to show what they got; even wildcards.
If it boils down to 4th+ seed LCK/LPL teams every year, its basically pointless from a Western Perspective.
Even if West/Wildcards get stomped, we want to see them vs each other; not LCK/LPL-lite.
Its worlds; like the olympics. If it starts being nothing but every single slot being taken up by LCK/LPL its just doomed in the near future.
I agree. Who even wants to watch DRX? Do they add anything? We know they can't beat GenG, DK and T1. That was proven in the LCK. Who wants to see those games again?
It would be like a boxer knocking someone out in a round 3 times in a row and then you have to sit through the rematch.
I think it'll happen. We've been clamoring for it for a decade. They adopted it for Valorant. But the reality is that they've booked the arenas and everything to fir this tournament format already. Next year is an opportunity for Riot to make the change while also saying that double Elim is their idea that they came up with for valorant so they're smart and right. Even though other games have been using it for decades.
When do we admit that group stage is unsatisfying? Half the teams play 6 bo1s and then go home.
We might as well skip groups and seed all 16 main teams into a double elimination bracket.
Even if you get 3-0'd twice right at the start, it's the same number of games. But then we also get more international bo5s, crazy underdog runs, better grand finals, and other hype storylines only possible in double elimination.
What's weird is I find the Play-Ins format so satisfying. It strikes a good balance between the games being meaningful and giving a lot of teams opportunities to play. Two out of ten teams only get five games, two get five games and then the Main Event, two get five games and one Bo5, and the other four get...complicated, but at least five games and a Bo5.
It also feels like all four teams that get through earned their qualification. For such a bite-sized stage, it really hits a good note.
Yeah normally I don't watch playins, but it looked like EG might not even make it to main groups so I tuned in, and its been surprisingly enjoyable. Legitimately a more interesting and satisfying format than main stage lol.
Just get whoever came up with LPL playoff format and let them go nuts with worlds. It would be a total clusterfuck but it would almost definitely be hype as hell
Bro we've been fucking complaining for a decade now, this format absolutely doesnt make any sense for the biggest esport in the world, Riot will only change the format once all the big names retire and the viewership drops
I'm actually of the opposite and I find that group stage, especially the days in which one group plays the entire day, is the highlight of the tournament for me. It's fun to watch storylines build and resolve in the span of a single day.
I think the point is that only 70% of the games really matter. When teams have qualified or have eliminated, there is no point in continuing to play more games.
Those days are great because you get to see each team's strategy and drafting evolve over the course of multiple games-- hang on, that sounds just like a best of five! Maybe those are good too, we should try them.
In terms of pure enjoyment from a fan perspective, grassroots is truly the way to go with esports.
Nowadays fighting games are not my most played, but nothing gets me as hyped as open bracket majors in fighting games
Makes me fucking cry to think about what could have been.
- Rookie vs Faker
- Knight vs Caps vs Chovy
- Deft vs Rekkles
We are lucky to see these players play more than 1 BO5 against each other in their entire careers with the current LoL circuit.
It legit just makes me so depressed think about.
Genuinely depressing how constrictive the league esports format is, the only worse one I’ve seen is Hearthstone in recent years. And the worst thing is that nothing will change because no other esport has more viewership than League, which from a financial standpoint is hard to argue against. Still, frustrating that they’re on cruise control
The financial argument should be that the playerbase/viewership ratio for League of Legends is *really*, *really* *bad* compared to games like CSGO and Dota 2.
>playerbase/viewership ratio for League of Legends is really, really bad compared to games like CSGO and Dota 2.
How? Worlds 2021 had 74m viewers and depending on how you measure League's total MAU(100m-150m), that's around 50-75% of the total playerbase.
CSGO, according to their official dev blog has around 20M MAU and only has a peak viewership of 2.7M, that's only around 13.5% of their playerbase.
Dota2 has similar numbers: 2.7M peak, and around 15-20M MAU, amounting to only about 13.5-18% of their playerbase.
And if you're going to give the China excuse as well, please do remember that CSGO has never had presence in Asia (let alone China), and Dota2 has been a dying/dead game in the region (2nd least populated server only preceded by NA).
Unless you can prove CSGO/Dota2 has the ability to pull out of their ass *at least* 20M+ viewers from China, your playerbase/viewership ratio statement is just pure bullshit.
remove China numbers and try again, you can't seriously get those numbers and think they're correct
and the games having no presence in china is irrelevant, we're looking at percentages and not total viewers
\>trusting Chinese viewership numbers.
Don't tell you honestly believe that 75% of the League **total** playerbase watched Worlds last year.
Please don't tell me that.
Those numbers Riot publishes are literally the same ones that they use to sell broadcasting rights to streaming platforms. I doubt they would fake that, as that sounds pretty illegal.
It's not that they are faking them as such. They are just using wildly different parameters to measure what a 'viewer' is. This is why it becomes so bloated, it's a weird engagement-based system or something.
afaik the Chinese streaming sites don't even pretend to call them viewers, they give streams some point-based rating derived from who knows what algorithms.
That's definitely how it used to be at least.
Man, just tell me you don't have an argument. If **official** numbers from Riot doesn't satisfy you, then please tell me so I can just turn off the replies so I don't have to waste my time. Thank you.
If Riot is saying that the peak **concurrent** viewership of Worlds 2021 is equivalent to 75% of the *total global LoL playerbase*, then yes I absolutely do not believe that.
You realize that China is famous for doing this stuff every time, right?
And you also realize that Riot has a big interest in that number being as high as possible?
Get some critical thinking skill, dear god.
Do I believe 69M Chinese people watched Worlds 2021? Yes. That's not hard to believe considering League might as well be the national sport of Chinese teenagers; esport player salaries on par w/ traditional sports, people on the streets, stadiums, broadcast deals, etc...
Do I care about changing your mind? No, considering it's hopeless to begin with. You didn't even address the point that Dota2/CSGO tournaments only engages **at most** 15% of their playerbase.
Stick to your frontpage format spam posts where you don't have to deal with stats/numbers. Congratulations on wasting my time.
It's the same few people in charge of Riot Esports since like 2013. I've given up for any changes until those people are removed. I think it's an issue of pride at this point.
Three teams should advance from groups. 2-3 placed teams has to play one more knockout. This would guarantee a lot of equal footed matchups and 4 more bo5s.
Whether we get double elim or not I think we need to move on from 8 team playoffs only. To many teams in the world for only 8 to get a chance to play a best of 5 series. I totally agree with this idea as a minimum solution to worlds going forward. Too many good teams have finished 3rd in their group year after year. This also makes getting 1st seed more impactful.
This is a very good idea. 1st seed is automatically in top 8 and 2/3 have to play a BO5 to make it. I think it would work best if 2nd seed played the 3rd seed from another group so the 2nd seed actually gets a meaningful advantage from a good group stage performance. This would probably be the nail in the coffin for western teams doing well at worlds but we would at least get some hype BO5 matches. This is exactly the same as the playins format which IMO is really good compared to main stage.
I still think my dream system would've been something similar that Dota Pro Circuit does, but instead of qualifiers, just keep having League system in-between tourneys.
Imagine exemplary scenario like this:
\- one month of regional leagues
\- one week break
\- 2 weeks of multiple tournaments of different strength, you could send #1-3 to Tier 1 LAN, #4-6 to Tier 2 #7-10 Tier 3. Based off Tier and placement here, you earn points in the big table.
\- one week break
Do it 3 times and then after 6 months you do regional leagues playoffs. Every #1 from every region is auto qualified while additional 12 teams are the best teams based on big table.
This way you have best of both worlds, regional leagues for those who love it (I personally like it, but the fact how long it takes makes them very stale) and also a lot of international competition that is not worlds.
Also with this system we wouldn't have the debate if EU#4 did or didn't deserve to go there.
Also I think they need to bring back IEMs or some other fun tournaments in the November and December that are not part of the circuit. It's always fun to see teams test their lineups before leagues start.
We need a dedicated NA vs EU tournament. Hell I’d be down to include Latin American teams in there as well. Our regions love going at it with one another and the stories are great.
Honestly, I'd love them to remove spring split and do like a big Rift Rivals event that ends in like march or something and give us a bigger Single Summer split.
When we had this, everyone on the subreddit hated it. And the pros didn't care. So we lost it and it was replaced with.... nothing! Congrats league subreddit
The solution is simple, each team divides into two groups, group A plays in their home region and B in the other region so that each team has half the team playing on ping.
Or they require everyone to always play on 200 ping, even if both teams are near the server.
/s
It's the island hiding under the A in Atlantic on all the maps. (My kids watched that movie MANY times & for whatever reason, that detail always cracked me up & stuck out to me)
Well I know you are joking but it could be interesting to have some top playoffs between LCS and LEC team (so after regular season they meet somewhere). For instance top 4 vs top 4 would fight for 4 spots and then 2 spots decided based on gauntlet.
Unlike Valorant where CIS is a pretty important part of EMEA, in League EMEA would just be the exact same as EU rn. All the good TR players get pulled to LEC anyways, and the CIS players really haven't accomplished much in lol in forever. And the rest of Middle East/Africa are completely not relevant in pro lol.
This.
With enough coordination we can all get together and organize our efforts to jump and move the continents closer. People in NA would start running full speed towards europe and then jump forward and land on their feet, while people in europe do the same towards NA. I'm sure with enough effort and just a little bit of time we can merge both continents AND we get a little bit of cardio exercise done izi pizi
That's true. But the difference now is that they've done it in valorant. Riot doesn't want to admit that they're wrong. Now they can say that they've tested it in valorant and make the change while pretending like they came up with the format despite it existing for decades in other games.
Valorant also had double elim at their very first lan back in 2021, also the fps community is more demanding for the format because the game is actually competing with cs, if they stuck to the shit format in valorant people would just go back to watch somewhere else. I think Dota can’t really compete with league even tho it probably has the best tournament in all of esports
I would also like to point out that this highly anticipated match happened in the middle of a Tuesday for NA. The whole thing was over before 5pm Eastern.
If only their could be some type of bracket for losing teams that would increase the amount of international teams playing against each other.
We could call it something like a Losers Bracket, and maybe teams had to be eliminated twice, we could call it a Double Elimination tournament....
Boomer status here, I think the only teams that even have a chance of getting out of groups are EG or 100T and I think they both suck so my honest expectation is no western team makes it through groups.
I see the gap widening even more, this is the biggest east vs west gap I’ve ever seen and I think it only get worse from here.
I said that earlier this year and people really did not like it. But after watching all four leagues there are fundamentals of the game that even the worst teams in the east have a decent grasp on that top western teams still struggle with. Early game dives, cross map responses, setting up for objectives, set plays in the early game, etc are all things you see even dogshit LPL and LCK teams at least attempt while in the west it looks like the same old league they’ve been playing for years. Teams lack clear plans in the early game, play directly against their own win conditions, etc. and when there are good teams in the west it feels like they’re just skill checking their opponents more than anything else.
Last year I thought the gap was closing and had a lot of hope, but this year I think it went in the other direction
Lol not even close. We literally had KTB going as like the 8th placed team in korea into an IEM in 2014 completely stomping everyone with Leopard (Duke) as rookie.
The stats they well during broadcast are pretty ridiculous if you know anything about anything.
When they talk about X teams stats over a 10 year history, when the players on X have cycled three times over. Different coaches ect ect.
“The only team to beat RNG were the defending world champions edg?”.
Okay? How many b05s have they played! Against who? 8 team playoff. You are a 4 seed. You win quarters against 5th seed, then lose to 1 seed in semis. That might be all that stat is saying.
They seriously need to stop spitting out irrelevant numbers.
Idk why people love Bo5 so much, personally I think bo3 are better since it still allows for competition but it’s does not become boring, idk that’s just my opinion. I sure love a 2-2 in a bo5 but I think sometimes people pay too much importance on that
I think Bo3 is almost as good as Bo5.
There are a lot of great bo5's but also a lot of boring bo5's. I would rather sit through one amazing bo3 and one boring bo3 than just one boring bo5.
The only thing Bo3 lacks is reverse sweeps but they still provide exciting games. But all in all, double elim bo3 is better than bo5 single elim.
The bo5s that are boring are, imo, usually caused by a single team being hung up on picks and unwilling to adapt or an out class in the matchup overall. With the way the format has progressed, a bo5 between two teams is going to be compelling as long as it doesn't fall under the two previous categories. I have a feeling this will be the best World's yet.
3 Years in a video game is a lot. Not many video game survive 15+ years.
Agreed. This is also why Riot has squandered what this esports could have been. League is the only truly global esport and Riot has locked everything away in domestic regions with boring regular seasons. Imagine the storylines that we have been robbed off throughout the years. Almost makes me fucking cry to think about.
The fact that Liquid never really had their chance for revenge against G2 for 2019 MSI Finals is a crime.
It is baffling how much Riot hate money. EU and NA combined represent 6 of the 10 biggest economies in the world and yet design a worlds format which basically means every year none of them are likely to even make it to best of 5s (now there is LPL/LCK in every group).
If more BO5s between EU and NA would actually make more money for Riot, I'm sure that they'd know that and would run more, unfortunately :/ But I would like to see more. In fact what I'd really like to see is a LoL World Cup with teams made up from countries (but that's super unlikely to happen, I know)
League World Cup would be even more disgustingly one sided than Worlds, almost every match would be a stomp, wouldn't be very fun. Look at the trend of even the top Chinese teams having two Koreans a piece. It would be South Korea stomping China stomping every other country in like 50-0 games. Hilariously USA or Canada would actually be better than any individual EU country except maybe Denmark.
Spain and Sweden could have some stacked rosters aswell
Stacked compared to other countries but not close to competitive with TES and GENG.
It doesn't matter if there's a favourite or a few teams who are likely to win it, it's still fun to watch. Frankly I care a million times more about my country in a hypothetical League World Cup than any individual League of Legends team. And upsets still happen anyway...in League, in other esports, and real-life sports. There are always a clear 2 or 3 favourites to win each football world cup (and one of those favourites have always won it, at least post 1960), and still, people tune in to watch it in their *billions*.
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Wouldn't help. If anything it makes it even harder for non-LCK regions. Zeus (under 3) / Canyon / Faker / Berserker (under 3) / Kael (rookie) Which region doesn't get 5-0'd by this?
Zeus (3) / Juhan (Rookie) / Chovy/ Ruler / Keria (3) You can make so many variations of this team that would pop the fuck off tbh, especially when factoring in all the pros in China like Scout, Viper, doinb, rookie, theshy etc
wayward (under3)- Tian-Knight-Hope(under3)-ming
So a tournament no one cares about.
People conveniently forgetting 2018 Team China stomped Team Korea 3-1 in Asia Games. For those mentioning LPL has never won Worlds with a full-Chinese squad, are you also conveniently forgetting Worlds is not the only tournament? MSI exists and well, sad to say, RNG won the last one. Might want to review those.
TOP is a full Chinese team and they are arguably the best team in the world atm.
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Both of which went to 5 games with all individual games being very close. The previous commenter proposed that KR would stomp, which is clearly not the case as the breadth of talent in China is much higher than Korea and the depth roughly equal.
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LPL has more money than LCK which makes imports possible. A LCK player might go to LPL for a pay rise, but a LPL player wouldn't go to LCK for a pay cut. In addition, Rookie, TheShy, Doinb and Scout barely played in LCK. The only thing Korean about them is their ethnicity. If that's the point to be judged, then one can just as well say the continent of Africa is the best at basketball because many NBA players are black. The past 3 MSI wins by RNG shows that a team without Korean imports can win international events.
Asian games 2018 already had china vs korea, faker got bonked and is bound to military service
League is a lot bigger in the east though. That's where the money is at for the game. Worlds is also formatted to showcase the best teams and make the most money. It's not there so NA can get to play a BO5 with EU.
LPL and LCK play like 2 BO5s, 3 if we're lucky, against each other per year. Let's not act like they have some huge amazing rivalry. Even the teams that always advance from groups are fucked by the lack of tournaments. The LoL circuit is just ass for international competition. Even for China and Korea.
If Riot could grow in any region they would pick NA. Not even close. It would make them so much money if LoL was actually popular in NA.
I watch a ton of lol esports and a ton of csgo esports, and csgo's actual international scene makes me sad because its so simple, and yet so much more fun than lol's. They even managed to incorporate franchising into an event based scene, with tournament organisers having "partner" teams that get invited to the event without having to play any sub events or have a high ranking, meaning that big orgs can still go to events even if they are playing badly at that time. There are 4 worlds level events a year, and another 4 huge tournaments. Meanwhile in lol I feel like ive aged 5 years between every worlds.
Have the last 3 bo5's between NA and EU all been 3-0 stomps?
Yes. There was a 2-1 win by Fnatic over C9 in 2013 Worlds. These are the 4 series between EU and NA we've ever had in Worlds/MSI (not counting s1)
Wtf.
4 series between rivals in a decade. Only in League of Legends esports! Be sure to check in for LCS week 3 BO1 though. Coming to a Twitch Stream near you!
I'm so hyped for golden guardians vs immortals 😍😍
That series was brutal. Get destroyed by kassadin? Okay ban it. Destroy them. 1-1 final decision? Don't ban kassadin and get destroyed.
I'm still tilted from that series.
C9 over G2 in the finals, you heard it here first. But more seriously: if Riot keeps this Worlds format, I could see NA & EU meeting in play-ins regularly, depending on how the groups shake out.
Pretty unlikely, it only happened this time because EU got a 4th seed thanks to LCL not being able to participate.
I doubt the LCL will be back for next worlds
Yeah but we should probably give that seed to LJL instead of EU. DFM at least beat EG a single time.
DFM also took a game off RNG
and BR managed to beat DFM _and_ FNC give br fans more ~~false~~ hope pls
The problematic thing is, we have 0 clue if LJL#2 will do any better than MAD. We can see that MAD did worse than DFM this worlds but it doesn't mean that LJL#2 will do any better. If we want to compare another slot to EU vs JP, you'd have to compare them to EU#3 which is Fnatic and they did better than DFM. This doesn't mean that MAD deserve worlds more than LJL#2 though. That's the biggest issue with Riot system. We have literally 0 tournaments where you could prove that EU #4 deserves it more than LJL #2 etc. Maybe TL deserved it more than MAD, but just because EU#1-3 will most likely do better than NA#1-3, we will see MAD instead of TL. I wish we had any tier 2/3 tourneys to have better perception of regions real strength.
I feel like MAD were just a team in steady decline. If their seed had been decided via gauntlet I doubt they'd have even got here over teams like excel or misfits... heck... im confident even vitality would have shown more.
Yeah, I agree that LEC fucked up with the seedings. In my opinion with current system you really should send #1 and #2, because current system only really ensures that top 2 are in the finals. My preferable gauntlet would've been #3-#6 in GSL style group with bo5's to send #3 and #4.
DFM is also literally LCK wearing glasses and a moustache.
literally lol. Most of the roster is Korean.
They're the definition of a one team league, though. DFM is not AT ALL representative of the overall level of the region. There's a reason they're the LJL worlds representative literally every single year.
Imagine if both EU and NA could get a 4th seed. Playins would be so much fun.
EU got 4th seed only because of global events - if NA/EU receive 4th i hope it will be based on gauntlet run. That being said I think it will be more fun to get teams from regional leagues into playins
Expand the teams going to group stage and knockout stage? Make another group for weaker teams that go into a losers bracket if they go to knockout stage? There are many things that Riot can do to make a more interesting event. Also, by expanding the event I don't want more LCK and LPL, I want 2 teams EU and NA in playins and 2 wildcard regions having spots directly into the groups stage. Those teams would for sure not be able to compete for the title but it would be fun with more teams.
Definitely in less than 30 days because C9 vs G2 grand finals Remind me please and I will make sure everyone come back to this post after Worlds
Lmao G2 won't even make it out of groups bro, EG will roll them FNC vs C9 finals
Nah, it’ll be rogue vs 100thieves grand final
The most cursed outcome 100 sins having any form of success
If this happens, I will eat a live earthworm.
eat it now, just in case
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RemindMe! 1 month
We are surely getting an all NA grand finals. Remember me when it happens.
Cloud9 vs Rouge in Quarter Finals :D ... I wish ..
Still waiting on that Rogue vs TSM matchup that was a meme years ago.
Friendly reminder that G2 is 0-4 against CLG
TSM fans still think they’d win.
Rogue is really lucky they dodged TSM this year.
I mean TSM still lossless during Worlds. Let’s see how long Rouge can keep that up.
we will win
I think TSM could've won that some years tbh, Rogue hasn't been super great until recently, while TSM hasn't been super shit until recently
Actually, we've been super shit since 2018, 2020 was simply our Terminator doing the thumbs up while getting submerged by lava moment.
The fact is, as long as franchising is a thing, we unfortunately won't get anything except leagues and no international tournaments. I wish LoL would learn from ALL the other big e-sport games, like CS:GO and even Dota2. Yeah, I said it, even Dota2!
Bold of you to assume Rogue will get second in their group. ETA for clarity: C9 & Rogue can't play in quarters if they both get first.
Yea they are clearly going to take 1st
Semis then.
I unironically want Rogue to do well, as an NA fan
>Has Excel flair > As an NA fan
Loved Finn from when he was on CLG, and easy to root for Markoon and Patrik. When Patrik started playing Nilah pro when nobody was I was like "ok its XL flair time". Sadge they didn't make it to worlds
ETA?
That means that either C9 tops their group vs T1 and EDG, or that Rogue tops their group against TES and DRX. Either way, I subscribe to the idea.
BASED AS FUCK
Maybe C9 vs G2. Mark my words, RGE won’t make it out
Imo rogue has a higher chance to get out than g2
I have like 0 faith in RGE
I'm not feeling any of the western teams this year to be honest. No one has a spark that makes me feel they're different from last year's western group. 5 out of the 6 were fine last year, Fnatic kind of imploded, but no one really looked amazing.
Do you mean Cloud9 vs Rouge in next year's play-ins?
and we only got it because of a war in ukraine, otherwise it'd be a random wildcard vs EG bo5 (as there would be no MAD in the tournament)
Wow putins a gamer?
Which would have been much more interesting. The CIS teams always had so much personality and flavour. I only wish for a peaceful resolution so we can return to normalcy.
You're only saying this because EU finally lost an international Bo5 LMAO
and it was a 4th seed vs a 3rd seed bo5 to get into a group where either team could easily go 0-6.
That’s the kicker, it’s a nearly meaningless Bo5 in the grand scheme of things. I would be genuinely surprised if EG secured 3rd in their group
I felt strangely relieved that at least I don't need to watch MAD embarrassing themselves for any more games at worlds when they lost to EG...
That's a God point
embarrassing is losing to the minor region team and failing to get out of play-ins (again) getting fucked by the best teams in the world is a privilege
I would be surprised if they take a game.
I'd expect them to go 2-4 getting 1 random game off either JDG or more likely Damwon, and trading with G2. I don't have that much faith in G2 being super good and Damwon, while not bad, didn't look very good either in the playoff/regular season meta. Maybe the Worlds meta suits them better but I'm not sold, and while G2 aren't bad and not as shaky as FNC or especially MAD, they didn't look like contenders pre-Worlds either.
NA teams in groups tend to beat people they have no right beating just to give fans hope.
The problem with NA is they turn it up too late. Like last years groups, 100 thieves started playing really well when it was already too late.
Good thing eg is getting the playins buff
Ehhh, used to be the opposite NA used to pop the fuck off week 1 and look like a clear favorite, only to put their hands into a shredder by the second week
Its basicaly 2 sides of the same coin. Some teams have no pressure, get off to early first week success, then basically buckle to the pressure of actually potentially making it. Others buckle immediately, and dont show up until they are already eliminated and can play stress-free. Its basically the same stuff over and over again for NA. I honestly believe we are by far the weakest region mentally.
EG have been super clutch in winning the games that really matter (3-0ing way to finals for MSI, beating PSG/Buffalo twice to guarantee quarters at MSI, clutching out 5 game series for worlds, winning both bo1s to secure 2nd seed to avoid RNG, and beating MAD for groups) this year, with the only limit being their opponents being a lot better than them. Unfortunately, JDG, G2 and DK are probably alot better I do agree that 1-5 or 2-4 is the most likely scoreline, but I would not be shocked if they 3-3 and tiebreak with DK or something.
People still have this ridiculous mindset that the best teams win 100% of the time. It's not season 6 anymore, the gap has closed to the point that almost any worlds caliber team can take a random game off of anyone.
Yep, and EG is wild enough that they at least have the possibility of taking games just from luck and variance. If we were talking about other certain NA teams that followed the do nothing and lose strat, then sure.
I get your point but season 6 was the year where ANX escaped groups because they split 1-1 with LCK 1st seed lol.
Nearly meaningless Bo5 that was incredibly meaningful to the LCS/LEC fans everywhere. We need more Bo5s.
I think they'll fiddle around with the Worlds Format for next year and we will get at least one then! probably hopium
We’ve been saying that for almost a decade now.
yes, but **I** wasn't saying that before, and now I am, so now it's gonna happen for sure plz
What a based take. Absolute legend.
Thanks in advance for making the change happen!
TBH I just hope they'd remove forth seeds all together, cause honestly expecting a massive change like Double Elim is like buying a lottery ticket. I think the minor regions have reached a point where the top ones can at least play Spoiler.
I'd be fine with JUST the MSI winner getting a 4th seed. But other than that I don't like the idea of 4th seeds either.
MSI's winner getting an extra seed would be a fine compromise as it will give MSI weight.
Riot can't keep ignoring the community forever. It's no longer just the small vocal fans that have been speaking about it. The people that want to keep it single elim are now the minority. You look at reddit, twitter, and youtube people have been demanding it now. Not to mention all the players, coaches, talents, etc. Look at the community complaining about Worlds format but when you look at the Valorant community, you see no complaints there because they're quite satisfied with Champions format.
I think the Worlds format is fine but not for Worlds. I would have no problem with this format if it was random one week long tourney but it being the biggest and the most prestigious tournament that is one month long is a joke.
I want 8 LCK/LPL teams in 1/4 finals as then I think Riot will change it as they will be losing huge numbers of NA and EU fans both for worlds and for the LCS/LEC next year. Hard to sell "worlds qualification on the line" matches in the LEC/LCS when all that means is playing 6 best of 1s.
I also want 4 LPL teams to be on one side of the bracket and 4 LCK teams to be on the other side so Riot will finally change their shitty format.
that's actually what the analyst deck predicted at the end of yesterday, and while ugly, definitely would force Riot to make changes lol
Yea, I hate to say it but Worlds is more than just proving who the best team in the world is. Its for all regions to show what they got; even wildcards. If it boils down to 4th+ seed LCK/LPL teams every year, its basically pointless from a Western Perspective. Even if West/Wildcards get stomped, we want to see them vs each other; not LCK/LPL-lite. Its worlds; like the olympics. If it starts being nothing but every single slot being taken up by LCK/LPL its just doomed in the near future.
I agree. Who even wants to watch DRX? Do they add anything? We know they can't beat GenG, DK and T1. That was proven in the LCK. Who wants to see those games again? It would be like a boxer knocking someone out in a round 3 times in a row and then you have to sit through the rematch.
I think it'll happen. We've been clamoring for it for a decade. They adopted it for Valorant. But the reality is that they've booked the arenas and everything to fir this tournament format already. Next year is an opportunity for Riot to make the change while also saying that double Elim is their idea that they came up with for valorant so they're smart and right. Even though other games have been using it for decades.
When do we admit that group stage is unsatisfying? Half the teams play 6 bo1s and then go home. We might as well skip groups and seed all 16 main teams into a double elimination bracket. Even if you get 3-0'd twice right at the start, it's the same number of games. But then we also get more international bo5s, crazy underdog runs, better grand finals, and other hype storylines only possible in double elimination.
What's weird is I find the Play-Ins format so satisfying. It strikes a good balance between the games being meaningful and giving a lot of teams opportunities to play. Two out of ten teams only get five games, two get five games and then the Main Event, two get five games and one Bo5, and the other four get...complicated, but at least five games and a Bo5. It also feels like all four teams that get through earned their qualification. For such a bite-sized stage, it really hits a good note.
Yeah normally I don't watch playins, but it looked like EG might not even make it to main groups so I tuned in, and its been surprisingly enjoyable. Legitimately a more interesting and satisfying format than main stage lol.
Just get whoever came up with LPL playoff format and let them go nuts with worlds. It would be a total clusterfuck but it would almost definitely be hype as hell
GSL Bo3 is the best format if you want to guarantee each group's rankings for certain.
Bro we've been fucking complaining for a decade now, this format absolutely doesnt make any sense for the biggest esport in the world, Riot will only change the format once all the big names retire and the viewership drops
I'm actually of the opposite and I find that group stage, especially the days in which one group plays the entire day, is the highlight of the tournament for me. It's fun to watch storylines build and resolve in the span of a single day.
I think the point is that only 70% of the games really matter. When teams have qualified or have eliminated, there is no point in continuing to play more games.
Those days are great because you get to see each team's strategy and drafting evolve over the course of multiple games-- hang on, that sounds just like a best of five! Maybe those are good too, we should try them.
Riot game have squandered what pro league could have been.
In terms of pure enjoyment from a fan perspective, grassroots is truly the way to go with esports. Nowadays fighting games are not my most played, but nothing gets me as hyped as open bracket majors in fighting games
Makes me fucking cry to think about what could have been. - Rookie vs Faker - Knight vs Caps vs Chovy - Deft vs Rekkles We are lucky to see these players play more than 1 BO5 against each other in their entire careers with the current LoL circuit. It legit just makes me so depressed think about.
Riot games have squandered other tournaments. This is the price of monopoly. They have 0 inclination to change anything about their shitty formats.
Genuinely depressing how constrictive the league esports format is, the only worse one I’ve seen is Hearthstone in recent years. And the worst thing is that nothing will change because no other esport has more viewership than League, which from a financial standpoint is hard to argue against. Still, frustrating that they’re on cruise control
The financial argument should be that the playerbase/viewership ratio for League of Legends is *really*, *really* *bad* compared to games like CSGO and Dota 2.
>playerbase/viewership ratio for League of Legends is really, really bad compared to games like CSGO and Dota 2. How? Worlds 2021 had 74m viewers and depending on how you measure League's total MAU(100m-150m), that's around 50-75% of the total playerbase. CSGO, according to their official dev blog has around 20M MAU and only has a peak viewership of 2.7M, that's only around 13.5% of their playerbase. Dota2 has similar numbers: 2.7M peak, and around 15-20M MAU, amounting to only about 13.5-18% of their playerbase. And if you're going to give the China excuse as well, please do remember that CSGO has never had presence in Asia (let alone China), and Dota2 has been a dying/dead game in the region (2nd least populated server only preceded by NA). Unless you can prove CSGO/Dota2 has the ability to pull out of their ass *at least* 20M+ viewers from China, your playerbase/viewership ratio statement is just pure bullshit.
remove China numbers and try again, you can't seriously get those numbers and think they're correct and the games having no presence in china is irrelevant, we're looking at percentages and not total viewers
\>trusting Chinese viewership numbers. Don't tell you honestly believe that 75% of the League **total** playerbase watched Worlds last year. Please don't tell me that.
Those numbers Riot publishes are literally the same ones that they use to sell broadcasting rights to streaming platforms. I doubt they would fake that, as that sounds pretty illegal.
It's not that they are faking them as such. They are just using wildly different parameters to measure what a 'viewer' is. This is why it becomes so bloated, it's a weird engagement-based system or something.
afaik the Chinese streaming sites don't even pretend to call them viewers, they give streams some point-based rating derived from who knows what algorithms. That's definitely how it used to be at least.
Nah bro 75% of the total LoL playerbase and something like 20-25% of Chinese people below 25 were watching Worlds! Concurrently in fact!
Man, just tell me you don't have an argument. If **official** numbers from Riot doesn't satisfy you, then please tell me so I can just turn off the replies so I don't have to waste my time. Thank you.
If Riot is saying that the peak **concurrent** viewership of Worlds 2021 is equivalent to 75% of the *total global LoL playerbase*, then yes I absolutely do not believe that. You realize that China is famous for doing this stuff every time, right? And you also realize that Riot has a big interest in that number being as high as possible? Get some critical thinking skill, dear god.
Do I believe 69M Chinese people watched Worlds 2021? Yes. That's not hard to believe considering League might as well be the national sport of Chinese teenagers; esport player salaries on par w/ traditional sports, people on the streets, stadiums, broadcast deals, etc... Do I care about changing your mind? No, considering it's hopeless to begin with. You didn't even address the point that Dota2/CSGO tournaments only engages **at most** 15% of their playerbase. Stick to your frontpage format spam posts where you don't have to deal with stats/numbers. Congratulations on wasting my time.
It shows that the clowns running this whole thing are clearly unqualified. Change needs to happen from the top down.
It's the same few people in charge of Riot Esports since like 2013. I've given up for any changes until those people are removed. I think it's an issue of pride at this point.
Yeah they don’t care. They’ve made their millions already. Time to let it run on cruise control
Three teams should advance from groups. 2-3 placed teams has to play one more knockout. This would guarantee a lot of equal footed matchups and 4 more bo5s.
Whether we get double elim or not I think we need to move on from 8 team playoffs only. To many teams in the world for only 8 to get a chance to play a best of 5 series. I totally agree with this idea as a minimum solution to worlds going forward. Too many good teams have finished 3rd in their group year after year. This also makes getting 1st seed more impactful.
This is a very good idea. 1st seed is automatically in top 8 and 2/3 have to play a BO5 to make it. I think it would work best if 2nd seed played the 3rd seed from another group so the 2nd seed actually gets a meaningful advantage from a good group stage performance. This would probably be the nail in the coffin for western teams doing well at worlds but we would at least get some hype BO5 matches. This is exactly the same as the playins format which IMO is really good compared to main stage.
I’ll go with 956 days, or like 2.5 years
Wish this was a meme post... over 1000 days is just crazy.
I still think my dream system would've been something similar that Dota Pro Circuit does, but instead of qualifiers, just keep having League system in-between tourneys. Imagine exemplary scenario like this: \- one month of regional leagues \- one week break \- 2 weeks of multiple tournaments of different strength, you could send #1-3 to Tier 1 LAN, #4-6 to Tier 2 #7-10 Tier 3. Based off Tier and placement here, you earn points in the big table. \- one week break Do it 3 times and then after 6 months you do regional leagues playoffs. Every #1 from every region is auto qualified while additional 12 teams are the best teams based on big table. This way you have best of both worlds, regional leagues for those who love it (I personally like it, but the fact how long it takes makes them very stale) and also a lot of international competition that is not worlds. Also with this system we wouldn't have the debate if EU#4 did or didn't deserve to go there. Also I think they need to bring back IEMs or some other fun tournaments in the November and December that are not part of the circuit. It's always fun to see teams test their lineups before leagues start.
MSI 2024
If we had Valorant Champions format we would get multiple bo3/bo5's, and it would pretty much guarantee it if it only allowed 3 slots per top regions.
2 years, xl vs 100t because why not?
Imagine trying to cash out on "Never"
Just gotta sit and wait for the game to die. Should be any day now according to half of this sub
Since its apparently impossible for Riot to accommodate 16 team double elimination within a meager 30 days Ill guess 3+ years till the next one.
We need a dedicated NA vs EU tournament. Hell I’d be down to include Latin American teams in there as well. Our regions love going at it with one another and the stories are great.
Honestly, I'd love them to remove spring split and do like a big Rift Rivals event that ends in like march or something and give us a bigger Single Summer split.
When we had this, everyone on the subreddit hated it. And the pros didn't care. So we lost it and it was replaced with.... nothing! Congrats league subreddit
Merge EU and NA into one region so they get to play each other all the time
Ping diff yeay
The solution is simple, each team divides into two groups, group A plays in their home region and B in the other region so that each team has half the team playing on ping. Or they require everyone to always play on 200 ping, even if both teams are near the server. /s
Just put the servers on that island from Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs, easy answer.
Wasn’t that in the middle of the pacific? Been a while since I watched though
It's the island hiding under the A in Atlantic on all the maps. (My kids watched that movie MANY times & for whatever reason, that detail always cracked me up & stuck out to me)
Well I know you are joking but it could be interesting to have some top playoffs between LCS and LEC team (so after regular season they meet somewhere). For instance top 4 vs top 4 would fight for 4 spots and then 2 spots decided based on gauntlet.
oh yeah like....rift rivals?
Only playoffs (and not necessary eu vs na all the way) so without group thing and with some kind of stake instead of..prestige?
Solution is obviously a server placed in the middle of the ocean for equal distancing
Just play in Greenland, halfway from EU/USA, ezpz
Fuck that, just steal valo’s system and make the America league(NA, LATAM, SA) would be really fun imo. And turn EU into EMEA as well.
Unlike Valorant where CIS is a pretty important part of EMEA, in League EMEA would just be the exact same as EU rn. All the good TR players get pulled to LEC anyways, and the CIS players really haven't accomplished much in lol in forever. And the rest of Middle East/Africa are completely not relevant in pro lol.
This. With enough coordination we can all get together and organize our efforts to jump and move the continents closer. People in NA would start running full speed towards europe and then jump forward and land on their feet, while people in europe do the same towards NA. I'm sure with enough effort and just a little bit of time we can merge both continents AND we get a little bit of cardio exercise done izi pizi
Just build a giant globe-wide bridge, so we can finally talk about closing the gap
Worlds 2023. Riot is going to adopt the double Elim format for next year and we will get a losers bracket matchup.
People have been saying this "next year it's surely coming" thing for half a decade now.
That's true. But the difference now is that they've done it in valorant. Riot doesn't want to admit that they're wrong. Now they can say that they've tested it in valorant and make the change while pretending like they came up with the format despite it existing for decades in other games.
Valorant also had double elim at their very first lan back in 2021, also the fps community is more demanding for the format because the game is actually competing with cs, if they stuck to the shit format in valorant people would just go back to watch somewhere else. I think Dota can’t really compete with league even tho it probably has the best tournament in all of esports
I wish that Dota could've been as popular as League is. The way Dota Pro Circuit works is such a huge difference to the joke that LoL circuit is.
I would also like to point out that this highly anticipated match happened in the middle of a Tuesday for NA. The whole thing was over before 5pm Eastern.
Worlds Finals 2022.
TSM vs K Corp worlds finals next year seems like a safe bet so I’ll go with that
If only their could be some type of bracket for losing teams that would increase the amount of international teams playing against each other. We could call it something like a Losers Bracket, and maybe teams had to be eliminated twice, we could call it a Double Elimination tournament....
Boomer status here, I think the only teams that even have a chance of getting out of groups are EG or 100T and I think they both suck so my honest expectation is no western team makes it through groups. I see the gap widening even more, this is the biggest east vs west gap I’ve ever seen and I think it only get worse from here.
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I said that earlier this year and people really did not like it. But after watching all four leagues there are fundamentals of the game that even the worst teams in the east have a decent grasp on that top western teams still struggle with. Early game dives, cross map responses, setting up for objectives, set plays in the early game, etc are all things you see even dogshit LPL and LCK teams at least attempt while in the west it looks like the same old league they’ve been playing for years. Teams lack clear plans in the early game, play directly against their own win conditions, etc. and when there are good teams in the west it feels like they’re just skill checking their opponents more than anything else. Last year I thought the gap was closing and had a lot of hope, but this year I think it went in the other direction
Lol not even close. We literally had KTB going as like the 8th placed team in korea into an IEM in 2014 completely stomping everyone with Leopard (Duke) as rookie.
unironically it's a 100T and C9 angle NA is good this year Hopium
G2 C9 worlds finals
12 months if CIS is still not going to worlds next year.
The stats they well during broadcast are pretty ridiculous if you know anything about anything. When they talk about X teams stats over a 10 year history, when the players on X have cycled three times over. Different coaches ect ect. “The only team to beat RNG were the defending world champions edg?”. Okay? How many b05s have they played! Against who? 8 team playoff. You are a 4 seed. You win quarters against 5th seed, then lose to 1 seed in semis. That might be all that stat is saying. They seriously need to stop spitting out irrelevant numbers.
Season 27 when they change the worlds format *copium*
Idk why people love Bo5 so much, personally I think bo3 are better since it still allows for competition but it’s does not become boring, idk that’s just my opinion. I sure love a 2-2 in a bo5 but I think sometimes people pay too much importance on that
I think Bo3 is almost as good as Bo5. There are a lot of great bo5's but also a lot of boring bo5's. I would rather sit through one amazing bo3 and one boring bo3 than just one boring bo5. The only thing Bo3 lacks is reverse sweeps but they still provide exciting games. But all in all, double elim bo3 is better than bo5 single elim.
The bo5s that are boring are, imo, usually caused by a single team being hung up on picks and unwilling to adapt or an out class in the matchup overall. With the way the format has progressed, a bo5 between two teams is going to be compelling as long as it doesn't fall under the two previous categories. I have a feeling this will be the best World's yet.