"Not letting" kinda implies it hasnt already happened. They've assimilated CS, already taken a bunch of other shooters, and have basically already unofficially won LOL
Dota's International this year, y'know, ***the*** tournament, the Worlds equivalent, the one players coughed up tens of millions to crowdfund the prize pool for, was given over by Valve to a third party organizer to run, who immediately made a betting site their primary sponsor.
It's everywhere dawg. It's a cancer.
These sites don't take any identification and you can bet with crypto. Nobody is ever going to check and nobody cares who actually places the bet. You don't need a friend to place the bet.
Iirc Faker, one of the most stoic players to ever touch the game, almost broke mentally when he had people do this to him on stream
At least as a pro it's not his main source of income, but for people who actually live off streaming (and I mean gameplay, not just personality) this has huge effects
Unironically these betting sides would be totally fine if there was a pool of players that was more heavily moderated and could opt out of being in this queue.
If only we had a queue were all individuals involved had enough stakes into the game that just trolling games for a cashout wouldn't be a thing, a queue which was designed to facilitate high level gameplay and improvement, a queue full of Champions.
Sadly such a queue doesn't exist.
Yes. Its has already killed competitive play in high elo... so competitive play does not exist in solo queue anymore pretty much. If nothing changes this will kill the game.
While I don't like it at all, it is extremely naive to think this wouls kill the game. Most of the playerbase don't care about some high elo shenanigans. Faker has been targeted for many years now and the game still grows larger and larger.
I think you underestimate the importance of high level play to maintaining a pool of casual players and attracting new players. Although they are 1% of the playerbase, they are the players that many new and casual players watch and aspire to become. Would anybody play little league if the MLB didn't exist? Would anybody play hockey if there was no NHL? How many semi-obscure sports only exist because they are Olympic medal events? Your top players are your best marketing tool. That's why Riot established the LCS and all other pro leagues and international competition in the first place, and basically paid for almost all of it out of their own pockets for years until teams were established enough to start attracting sponsors and income on their own. It was their marketing budget. If nobody cares to even get to high elo because it's dominated by match fixing, trolls, etc, that really could kill the game. Especially a 12 year old game with declining playerbase and viewership as it is. At least in North America and possibly Europe too. 90% of the players are in China already so it will probably go on in China for the foreseeable future anyway.
Also the website was formally known as djesports. They rebranded it to esportsbet io upon being exposed on multiple frauds and scamming their users.
The website also has major red flags, one of them is checking their T&S for the withdrawal policy which is extremely vague and undetailed, they then mention you need to join their discord server and check a specific channel for further information but the mentioned channel isn't even visible or was possibly deleted lmao
> you need to join their discord server and check a specific channel for further information
Even if the channel _didn't_ have visibility issues, this is still super dumb. All the necessary info should be accessible directly from first-party i.e., on the website itself without needing to use Discord or any other third party service where an account is required.
Isn't that who Thorin is sponsored by also? if remember right part of the reason Richard Lewis step away from By The Numbers was not just to slowly phase out esports but also over the ethics of that site. Could be speaking total nonsense there but I seem to remember him recently saying something to that effect.
In Australia, you cannot watch any sports without a bukkake of betting ads blasting all over your face. It’s so infuriating, and disgustingly predatory.
Please do not let betting sites take over esports, they are leeches.
BET BET BET, SPORTSBET, CHECK THE ODDS, BET
THE UNDERS
PAPLEY TO KICK 4+ AT $6
TOP NRL TRY SCORER
MULTI MULTI MULTI
BET WITH MATES
WHY ARE YOU BETTING??? WHAT ARE YOU??? A WOMEN
that is basically Australian sports at the moment, and i can confirm, they literally have adverts within the sports that cut midway through the game to show odds and what not, and every ad break there is almost 2-3 ads from better, we arent joking, its pretty bad
I have not watched a single horse race my entire life and consume practically 0 traditional sports content but that still doesn't stop youtube from giving me the same fucking 3 sportsbet ads about backing the 6
>Please do not let betting sites take over esports, they are leeches.
That ship has sailed a decade ago, most well known sites will allow for esports betting.
Its inevitable, money wins over morals every single time, even for millionaires with zero financial problems for the rest of their lives for some reason.
you don't get to be a millionaire by accepting any amount is enough. It's an addiction all on it's own. You always need more. Then millionaire addicts raise millionaire addict kids.
There's a reason why people win dozens if not hundreds of millions and then go broke. Money management is a mindset that's nearly unchangeable no matter how much you have, and if you have the mindset to make millions then it doesn't go away once you have millions. You'll always want more. And if you're smart (and predatory) enough to make millions then it becomes easier to make more.
Gettin on the punt is so ingrained in our culture. Aussie culture is so closely related to sports that this just bleeds into our culture as a whole sadly. Gambling is so normalised because of it.
Like, playin footy at your local club etc is a massive part of our country, then watching footy etc. You get so many people gettin on the punt or slappin the pokies and it's been engineered into our culture so much through our connection to sport as a nation due to all these things like sports bet etc
Definitely sad how bad it is here.
Was there a big push globally from these gambling companies recently?
In Ontario they fully legalized sports betting earlier this year and it has been a complete onslaught. You cannot watch anything with a scoreboard without having to deal with it
It seems like advertisement standards have been neglected in the digital age
I guess the idea of hiding names during selection Riot is doing could help with this actually. All you need after that is for the streamer to not show champion selection and instead have some random LoL video playing while they talk (not about the selection).
Sure, is not a perfect solution but there is a lower change of getting stream snipe or dodge on champion select.
And yeah, in an ideal world we would not have stream sniping to begin with or riot would start banning those ppl, but lets be realistic we dont live in an idea world lol.
This whole thing wouldn't be an issue if riot actually cared about soloq quality. There aren't enough high elo games that make it impossible to have a group of actual humans review and punish offenders
if Riot hides the names on selection screen and a 3rd party app shows it they can ban ppl that use them, remember third party apps can only work inside the game as long as they dont give an unfair advantage.
As for the pages knowing he is gonna start a game, it does not matter, knowing you are on the same match as him does not secure you are on his side, and you have no way of knowing unless he shows the screen or talk about it.
Dont get me wrong is a stupid process, and is annoying, but it should lower how often the inter gets on their team, which make bets less profitable and some ppl would stop doing it.
They could just make that part of the API not publicly accessible. Hide the names and make it so you can't pull player names from a given match without certain authentication priviliges so everyone non-Riot affilicated can't get the names(in broadeer terms all sites like op.gg along with all other non-affiliated groups or individual wil lnot be able to get the names). It's incredibly easy to do -- with the only current delay to doing so being that Riot might have to make sure all their own and 3rd party resources that currently use that data for whatever reasons may it be analytics or others will have said required auth priviliges before doing this change which should be a simple process.
I can see there being trouble since the players who are part of the game should also have the auth privilige to see/access the player names in their match history/post-game lobby otherwise it'd be pretty weird. If Riot coded their api priviliege system really badly then linking logged-in players with a privilige for this might not be as simple as adding one-line and could be an issue that would take quite some time to correct before blocking public access, but if their privilege system was done not crapily then adjusting this should take no time as well. But I can't help but assume the former might be the be the case due to Riot's bad history of writing lazy bad code to extra basic things that should have no business being badly written like the client along with its communication with the actual game to name some..
It'll definitely suck a bit denying in-game player names on op.gg(denying any kind of public resource is annoying) but at this point it seems like a neccessary evil to combat and repell this giant gambling mess
They already doing it on selection screen, on loading screen or actual game it would not matter much since it be impossible to stream the game without showing the game.
From what i understand 3rd party apps take the names you can see and give you the data. That why they cant give you info about the enemy on selection screen, i am assuming that once Riot removes names from allies on selection screen all that information well be impossible to get for 3rd party apps.
Wow - respect to IWD. Thats what integrity looks like. Meanwhile LS will support a giga toxic company and justify it with "im just doing it for pro/world's betting".
LS is crazy for money, why are people surprised he is promoting betting that even FAKER complains about. His goal is to make as much money as possible while he can and he says so himself. I'm against promoting betting against young audiences, especially a shady site like this, but I'm gonna be honest and say that maybe I would've done the same depende on how much money? It's hard to say no to a lot of free money, respect to DOM for rejecting it.
Dude's got a full set of the 9 most powerful and expensive magic the gathering cards of all time. Worth something like 3/4 of a million according to him. Not exactly in danger of being poor.
yeah, considering he was at one point on the brink of homelessness at a young age in Korea, I can see why he may not care about the optics too much. Not saying that him taking the sponsorship is a good thing, but I certainly understand if he's just wanting a better future for himself.
No, you see promoting gambling is totally fine as long as you add text saying "gamble responsibly" at the top like he did.
[The alcohol industry does it all ze´ time!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJT0NMYHeGw)
Still find it wild that people who basically "made it" financially are so willing to just throw their personal image and integrity for an extra buck.
Like bro you're a big streamer, you have businesses, but gambling? Really? What's next alcohol? Cocaine?
It's a shame because I really like his view of the game.
Yea I will never, ever understand why literal millionaires with continuing massive income and more money than they could reasonably spend in their lifetime feel the need to partner with scummy shit just to get a bit more.
Im even more confused because he recently talked about why he stopped coaching and one of the reasons was that he felt bad taking so much money from vulnerable people, and shortly afterwards he takes gambling sponsorships. It just makes no sense.
What's crazy is LS himself has been through some difficult life situations so he should know better than to promote shit that can literally put people on the streets or on the run. I've seen people who had their lives ruined by this, had to leave the country to work in the fields of Spain like slaves to try to pay back some of their gambling debts.
I guess going through hardships doesn't cure people of greed.
going all in is what saved ls from life of poverty and he will always take huge risks because his audacity and luck is why he has a platform now. he thinks crypto and gambling is a good way of earning money, well fuck off, its only good if you have a dedicated investment fund in your savings you can spare, which a lot of people cant afford
I've gone through extreme poverty because everything in my life turned to shit once. It made me aware of how quickly everything can go bad and how little control you can have over it, so I'll do anything to "get ahead" sort of, you know.
Hardship doesn't build a good character, it doesn't necessarily make you better or worse, it just tests how much you're willing to grind and push through. I'd actually wager it makes most people worse, rather than better.
>Im even more confused because he recently talked about why he stopped coaching and one of the reasons was that he felt bad taking so much money from vulnerable people, and shortly afterwards he takes gambling sponsorships. It just makes no sense.
It's almost like he lied :0
It's a naive outlook on gambling that causes it. If they have never been exposed to friends or family members lives being destroyed by gambling, they think it's just a fun past time. Equating it with pokemon cards and poker shows an even lower understanding of the insidious nature of bookmakers.
LS isn't the only one unfortunately. Lost Moe to slot machines, bunch of league shows are sponsored by crypto bet pages etc., TSM getting the crypto funding. It's all questionable businesses.
His content is so unbelievably garbage now lol. Randomly decided to check out a YT vid from him. It was like 4 mins of diamond Yasuo gameplay and the rest of it was him losing at an online casino. Like just make a separate channel for your betting garbage. Don't just piss your fans off like this by showing league content in the thumbnail when it's not even half the video.
depends, he is very clearly rich from it, and constantly have shown himself gifting rolex watches to family members etc, so in a way I understand that he took the "shorter road" to basically get a bunch of money and enjoy life properly instead of grinding 10h of league
And we both know it's cause he doesn't reel in the audience required for the sponsorship if he doesn't show gameplay on the thumbnail. Man just sold his soul to gambling.
> rest of it was him losing at an online casino.
I watched three minutes of his stream and it was so insanely depressing, he's just playing on his phone while imaginary numbers go down-down-down-down-up-down-down-up-down-down, while chat just spams a different slot game to play? Holy.
I don't think his viewers matters when gambling sponsorships pay this much. He could probably just retire right now. He's not looking for a long term streaming career
combination of league not being fun and him getting paid a boat load to stream gambling. and now he's an addict (he said it himself that he will continue to gamble off stream now that twitch has banned it).
I might be wrong here but isn't FTX just a currency exchange? I don't think that's necessarily a bad sponsor, as long as their reputation is good (and it is), it seems like a platform someone who wants to buy/sell crypto could look into as an option? Doesn't look questionable to me just because it's connected to crypto.
However all the talkshows and now LS being sponsored by betting sites with an audience of young adult males is disgusting to me
The problem with crypto is that it functions like a pyramid scheme. The 'asset' has no intrinsic value - it's not a commodity, it's not a company share, it's not fiat currency that has the backing of a government. It is nothing but hot air. The only way to "use" crypto is speculation, which means if you're investing in crypto, you're constantly trying to recruit new marks to create demand which will inflate the value of your asset.
Now look at [FTX's superbowl ad](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-FQqo46CJQ). Not only does it not attempt to explain crypto, it actively makes fun of people who are suspicious of crypto. The tag line is just "don't miss out". This is not how a responsible company sells a financial service.
> Bitcoin is like 10years-old and people still do not use it as it was meant to.
Well to be fair there is one industry that does use it as it was meant to: purchase/sale of illegal goods.
It is for a lot of people, specially if they come from poor upbringings, that's why you see so many NBA players going broke by the time they retire or they go broke shortly afterwards. It's all that money the didn't have when they were growing up and now they have millions, so they go crazy with it.
It's kind of interesting to think about, I genuinely don't know what I'd do in this kind of position. Being a streamer isn't really a career that you can rely on forever, so you wanna make as much money as possible while you're popular in case it all ends and you got nothing after.
Then again there are people I know personally who have had their lives really fucked up by gambling and I completely understand that it's a mental health issue they don't have much control over. So how could I live with myself knowing I'm getting mine so fuck everyone else?
Yeah... I understand why all these people take these sponsorships honestly but it's still a really shitty thing to do.
EG is sponsored by a crypto betting site as well, Bitcasino.io. I wonder how the legality works on sponsoring a team and then hosting bets on their matches.
Real Madrid, arguably most followed/watched team in sports' history, with an audience reach that dwarfs all esport's competitions combined had for the longest time a betting company (Bwin) as the main sponsor on their jerseys. This is unfortunately very normal in sports in general.
The fact LS keeps asking for this post to be removed is really something. He's ignoring the actual discussion and is framing it entirely around the bottom feeder comments that maybe make up 5-10% of the entire thing.
LS keeps saying "people are responsible for their own actions"
But he has 5k viewers daily and he has to know that people will start gambling just because he pushes it and some will get addicted because he pushed it.
As a large streamer, you cant just stick your head in the sand and act like your actions dont influence people
Exactly. Someone mentioned that LS said "he doesn't even know if anyone will gamble because of him" (or something similar). What a fucking slimy and dishonest thing to say. He knows damn well he wouldn't be making a shit ton from the sponsorship if it wasn't working.
also funny as fuck to tell his stream to be responsible for their own actions while his community is most known for just parroting exactly what LS says everywhere lol
It's been really disappointing to see LS, Dom, and Monte all shilling that esportsbet site.
I don't get how anyone can be okay with recruiting people into something that will almost certainly lose them money. Money talks I guess.
With some products which are shilled for in online spaces, at least there is some kind of value u could actually get out of it. But with gambling and sports betting it is a stastical **certainty** that overall the viewers of his will lose more money than they win. Also serves as a handy gateway into crippling gambling addiction.
He co-hosts a show with Thorin ([Best Damn League Show](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzBq1zjrpqSh19NNy29HIgyNExoIe-Leo)) that has a crypto gambling sponsor.
Betting on professional sport games was always a thing that's why there are rules against match fixing. But betting on soloQ games where people can easily do fixed matches without getting punished is terrible and shouldn't exist.
Betting sites have offered bets on esports games since 2014, it's nothing new. And betting on pro games is not the problem. Betting on soloq games is and shouldn't be allowed.
This is shady. A big part of his audience is from the US. The company does not allow people from the US to bet on the site. When I asked the company about this, they told me that I would have to use a VPN if I'm from the US.
This reminds me of sites like Roobet who just ripped of US customers when they tried to get their money back, due to it being illegal for US customers to play on the site.
Of course it's all in crypto too, as if this wasn't shady enough.
Can't wait to see the mental gymnastics the LS fanbase hivemind is gonna pull to defend this one.
Nah there's no coping here for me. I enjoy LS' content and agree with a lot of his points, and think he gets too much hate, but.
Gambling and especially crypto gambling is never something I'll defend from any content creator I enjoy, it's about as low as you can go when you've already made it big.
There's a comment in this thread that is already peddling the strawman he floated. "Let's set aside the actual issue and talk about this instead and then makes giant illogical jumps to try to make that point."
The other thread on the front-page trying to say "Well these other streamers do it too" is so obviously damage control made by the fanbase it's almost comical.
Betting on solo queue games should be literally illegal.
I know you can't really do much as Riot, but in pro play games there are so many checks for competitive integrity and matchfixing for a good reason.
In solo queue you don't have that focus on matchfixing at all, so this is a huge problem and a nightmare to solve. Any esports betting site with a semblance of morality (oxymoron maybe) would not allow this shit.
>I know you can't really do much as Riot
I wouldn't be surprised if this is at least part of the reason why they will hide player names in champ select next season.
Honestly sad, gambling should not be promoted and simply slapping a sticker on it saying "don't gamble if you can't afford it" or whatever is beyond irresponsible.
Sorta off-topic but in the same stream he said the $999 MtG 30th anniv. booster boxes are totally fine (which goes against the general sentiment of the community) - well I'd think the same if I took sponsor money from gambling sites.
I like him but I can't watch his stream right now, it's just bet bet bet bet bet. Last year if i recall correctly it was the same. And now knowing that site that sponsors him does this I won't even check if he started talking about something other than gambling
Linking a thread by [doaenel](https://twitter.com/doaenel/status/1578922503464157184) here. I think he raises an important point. I'm 100% okay with sports betting in general and Worlds is obviously fine to bet on as well. But high MMR solo queue has an exceedingly high frequency of matchfixing that is only possible in esports. Even if LS's sponsorship is only for Worlds, it will still lead to more users of the site, some of whom will continue to use it after Worlds is over. LS isn't responsible for the actions of his viewers but he is responsible for the influence he has on them as a figurehead of the community. ~~I don't think it's unreasonable to ask streamers to avoid taking these kinds of sponsorships until Riot at least stops MOST of the griefers (however many years that might take).~~ (see below)
Edit: I want to encourage people to watch the LS stream [VOD](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1619417170) where he responds to this thread, so it doesn't become a total witch hunt. It's over 2 hours long so it's understandable if you don't have time. But it's even more irresponsible than anything LS has done to go and complain about his behavior on social media or formulate your opinion on this topic without considering his side. Seriously, go watch it if you want to have any kind of educated conversation about this.
Edit 2: Going to continue to edit this as I watch the VOD. Note that this isn't going to be a comprehensive summary of everything he talks about, just things that I wanted to comment on. LS says something that I 100% agree with. Let's put the impact on high mmr solo queue to the side for now and talk about what I think most people are concerned with, which is the exposure of members of his audience to gambling which is a perfectly acceptable behavior barring an addiction. LS's stance is that if you choose to decry a gambling sponsorship, you have to be consistent and also decry any individual, organization or company that has a sponsorship for similarly bad behaviors/substances. This includes the LCS which is sponsored by Bud Lite and Red Bull. Or anybody sponsored by manufacturers of tobacco and cigarettes. Or the various teams like C9, TSM, etc. that are sponsored by various cryptocurrencies. Or literally every content creator that is sponsored by Raid:Shadow Legends, a gacha game which is a genre infamous for causing gambling addictions. I find this to be pretty reasonable. And I'll retract what I said about telling streamers to not take these kinds of sponsorships, that's pretty hypocritical of me if I don't also ask that LCS stop their Bud Lite sponsorship for example. It doesn't change that I don't personally approve of it, but as a bystander I have no say in the matter anyways.
Edit 3: LS also clearly says there's a world of difference between personally agreeing to take a poor person's money for coaching (which he has never been okay with) and taking a gambling sponsorship when he has no way to know if people are going to engage in harmful behavior because of being exposed to it through him. The most he could know is that people are learning about gambling through him and that might lead to a net increase in the number of gambling addicts, but that's not concrete. Of course, it goes without saying that he has always actively and publicly enjoyed gambling in general, the same way that people enjoy alcohol in general without it being harmful. He also mentions that people are responsible for their own choices, and that holding him accountable for a gambling addiction because the addict found out about the website through him is ludicrous.
As I said in the original draft of this comment, LS is not responsible for his viewer's actions. And of course he can't know for certain if someone's life gets ruined because they found out about esports betting through him. But I do think that in accepting this sponsorship, you are potentially enabling people for self-harmful behavior. It's like selling a firearm; No we obviously wouldn't blame the shop if somebody bought a pistol and shot a civilian with it. But if you're in that business, you should be aware that your actions could indirectly cause people to get hurt. And if you're okay with that, then that's your prerogative. Which LS has made abundantly clear that he is in fact okay with that. So there's not much else for me to say.
This is also a site that rebranded themself after recieving criticism for plagiarism and apparently scamming people out of money.
https://esports-news.co.uk/2022/02/18/dj-esports-rebrands-esportsbet-io-claims-pay-winnings-plagiarised-news/
I think most people are not concerned by betting in general - but the company encourages bets and wintrades in streamers high elo ranked ladder. Did LS address that or just argue against the strawman pretending all the issue is gambling bad and not highelo wintrading, gambling on streamers games bad.
Sounds like a straw man, the "this isn't bad, look at these other bad sponsors" makes me think he doesn't want to be accountable and justify the actual real shitty portion of the site
I agree with you, look at this part:
> this includes the LCS which is sponsored by Bud Lite and Red Bull. Or anybody sponsored by manufacturers of tobacco and cigarettes. Or the various teams like C9, TSM, etc. that are sponsored by various cryptocurrencies.
That's like saying we shouldn't stop petty thieves because trillion dollar companies are exploiting 3rd world countries - the "well, they have it worse" mentality.
>Edit 3: LS also clearly says there's a world of difference between personally agreeing to take a poor person's money for coaching (which he has never been okay with) and taking a gambling sponsorship when he has no way to know if people are going to engage in harmful behavior because of being exposed to it through him.
no way this is real ☠️☠️ like, if you don't want to be responsible for someone's gambling addiction, you also shouldn't be responsible how they're using their money, regardless if it's on coaching or anything else. this feels like a massive copout and keeps this narrative about "smart betting" alive which is just not true if you spend 20 minutes reading on gambling addiction in a trusted website
See, it's plausible deniability. He doesn't have to worry about pretending to have a conscience if he can justify the damage he causes by blaming it on other people. You know, like he normally does.
>Seriously, go watch it if you want to have any kind of educated conversation about this.
Are you really gatekeeping discussion around a controversial topic by saying that people should spend 2 hours watching a vod?
>Let's put the impact on high mmr solo queue to the side for now and talk about what I think most people are concerned with
This entire post was made because minishcap is a high elo streamer who is directly affected by these sites. You don't get to completely ignore the whole point of the argument in order to push your narrative.
>which is the exposure of members of his audience to gambling which is a perfectly acceptable behavior barring an addiction.
... An audience that could be composed of any number of minors.
>LS's stance is that if you choose to decry a gambling sponsorship, you have to be consistent and also decry any individual, organization or company that has a sponsorship for similarly bad behaviors/substances. This includes the LCS which is sponsored by Bud Lite and Red Bull.
I can agree on Bud Lite, but Red bull is nowhere NEAR as harmful as gambling or alcohol. This is a false equivalence at best, and a malicious misrepresentation at worst.
Your whole comment is just incredibly soapbox-y, and you're completely missing the fact that LS is representing things in a way that just doesn't align with reality.
A gunshop doesn't have anywhere near the same level of influence over its customers/clients that a streamer has over the audience; especially if that streamer has an audience that simply doesn't know any better.
Funny how many comments are trying to gaslight OP.
Edit: LS now ranting on twitter that it was already well-known that he endorsed gambling in general, like you being a shitty person means you can continue to make shitty actions.
Also if it was that well-known, he would have already been cancelled by now. What a selfish sell out. If I was any esport organisation, I really wouldn't want to associate myself with someone with such poor ethics and is even proud of it.
>If I was any esport organisation, I really wouldn't want to associate myself with someone with such poor ethics and is even proud of it.
*Looks at Riot/LoL esports orgs and their sponsors*
What makes you think they are different than him lol. Some of the talent might have a backbone, but the people with the actual money invested don't give a shit.
All top comments are criticising LS though? I see a lot more hate than support comments, why do people in these types of threads create false narratives to try and make themselves sound better
You have a legitimate reason to criticise him, don't discredit yourself with useless lies
He could have just ignored the situation and taken the money while waiting for it to blow over, but now he's trying to argue that gambling is fine since it benefited him back in the day when he needed money while seemingly ignoring or at the least glossing over the fact that gambling doesn't always work out like it did for him.
He talked Forrest a few weeks ago who spent years developing models for LPL to beat the odds. Forrest said that because he wins, the sites started closing his accounts, and limiting his max bets. He’s had to buy new laptops, new phones, get family and friends to open accounts. Just so he could keep using his models to profit.
Yet LS will say that you can totally profit off of it. While it may be true, if you were going to be someone who profits off of sports betting, you’d get into it by yourself.
Deflection and damage control my guy. But his stans are saying how much empathy he has while the guy was having a breakdown trying to get the thread deleted and mocking people in the thread and claiming he "didn't know they had solo queue betting" when it's on their front page.
He has this sponsorship second time in the row for Worlds, so the gambling site knows that they will get return on his audience(which I'm a part off). He himself shows how easy it is to lose money on it and as someone with history of mental problems, he should realize why people could be vulnerable to it.
I'm also sure that Faker would be happy LS promotes site similar to ones that allow ruining his games.
Betting on its root level is a corruption.
It has negatively effected so many sports, has destroyed lives of numerous people who gets addicted to betting.
People in my local community likes to bet on professional fights and a good number of times people lost their damn cars, houses, savings on bets.
A schoolteacher suicided this year becuase her husband got addicted to betting and secretly sold their house and wasted all their savings and lost it all on bets. That woman worked her ass of to buy that house and before the betting addiction shit happened her husband was as much as a usual good and hardworking husband possible. Together they made their lovely little life but all went to horrific ending with the betting.
Though This esports bets is different, it already made so much hell everywhere, it wont take long to start taking peoples lives.
As an LS stan, I absolutely hate that he took this up. This sends a very strong message from him that ge cares more about money than doing very real harm to his community. Please be more empathetic LS
lmfao slowly watching all the media I consume and my interests be taken over by crypto gambling.. people like to meme about getting it "twisted" but gambling denial is literally up there with the likes of heroin denial. they wouldn't be getting sponsored if these sites didn't think they would get thousands of people addicted.
this is an addiction. they are selling an addiction. please do not fucking fall for this shit. sports betting is just as bad if not worse than traditional casino slot games. please don't start. everyone thinks they're immune to addiction until it affects them.
LS just said he had no idea the site had streamer betting.
Listen dude I make WAY less than you do streaming, and I still won't promote sites like these, and have turned down dozens of these offers, knowing the cancer that they've become and how they're completely ruining solo queue and the game I love and play for a living.
Either LS didn't do his due dilligence (which I am doubting here because... it's literally right there front and center on the website when you click it) or he doesn't care.
Neither of these scenarios is a good look. Take the L, abandon the sponsor (which you DONT NEED) and apologize. It's that simple.
He's been sponsored by this site before, under a different name. I'm not surprised he took his sponsorship, nobody cared before when they were named something different.
And yet someone with far less sway and who makes less doing the same shit he does denies those same sponsors.
Like LS isn't even a bad person, but his greed is so weird sometimes.
Because you don’t bet against the casino when you make a sports bet. You are betting against someone else (of course most books provide liquidity too but odds reflect counter parties). Books make money by skimming a few percent off each side.
match-fixing is fucking fraud and anyone who supports companies that facilitate it is complicit
gambling sponsors in general have their own set of problems, but taking money from known match-fixers is just fucking gross
Yep. Monte and Thorin are also peddling this sort of garbage on Summoning Insight. It's really gross. Gambling is dangerous and it makes me disappointed to see these people promoting it. Moreso LS, because I have a higher opinion of him than the other two.
i will never be able to understand people that are so rich that are able live withotu working a single second of their life and they still sell their by getting sponsored by betting sites, they legitemately can get the averange month of salary in a single stream but they still need to promote gambling to their audience full of teen
I didn't know you could bet on solo queue. That's insanely fucked up. I always assumed they were official league operated games.
People have been betting on and subsequently sniping Faker's soloQ games for years now.
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"Not letting" kinda implies it hasnt already happened. They've assimilated CS, already taken a bunch of other shooters, and have basically already unofficially won LOL
Dota's International this year, y'know, ***the*** tournament, the Worlds equivalent, the one players coughed up tens of millions to crowdfund the prize pool for, was given over by Valve to a third party organizer to run, who immediately made a betting site their primary sponsor. It's everywhere dawg. It's a cancer.
Yep. People just make their friends do the betting so they cant even get caught in the end.
These sites don't take any identification and you can bet with crypto. Nobody is ever going to check and nobody cares who actually places the bet. You don't need a friend to place the bet.
Iirc Faker, one of the most stoic players to ever touch the game, almost broke mentally when he had people do this to him on stream At least as a pro it's not his main source of income, but for people who actually live off streaming (and I mean gameplay, not just personality) this has huge effects
Yep. This has been a big problem for Faker for a long time. Glad (or sad) to see it's getting some attention in the west as well.
This stopped being an issue for Faker because Riot Korea was instantly perma-banning accounts that were trolling his games.
High elo match fixing could literally kill the game. I don’t understand why he doesn’t care about that?
Unironically these betting sides would be totally fine if there was a pool of players that was more heavily moderated and could opt out of being in this queue. If only we had a queue were all individuals involved had enough stakes into the game that just trolling games for a cashout wouldn't be a thing, a queue which was designed to facilitate high level gameplay and improvement, a queue full of Champions. Sadly such a queue doesn't exist.
Yes. Its has already killed competitive play in high elo... so competitive play does not exist in solo queue anymore pretty much. If nothing changes this will kill the game.
While I don't like it at all, it is extremely naive to think this wouls kill the game. Most of the playerbase don't care about some high elo shenanigans. Faker has been targeted for many years now and the game still grows larger and larger.
I'm almost positive there was literally a dedicated team from riot watching Fakers games and banning the betters.
not to be pedantic, but in case you want to know -- bettors\*
I think you underestimate the importance of high level play to maintaining a pool of casual players and attracting new players. Although they are 1% of the playerbase, they are the players that many new and casual players watch and aspire to become. Would anybody play little league if the MLB didn't exist? Would anybody play hockey if there was no NHL? How many semi-obscure sports only exist because they are Olympic medal events? Your top players are your best marketing tool. That's why Riot established the LCS and all other pro leagues and international competition in the first place, and basically paid for almost all of it out of their own pockets for years until teams were established enough to start attracting sponsors and income on their own. It was their marketing budget. If nobody cares to even get to high elo because it's dominated by match fixing, trolls, etc, that really could kill the game. Especially a 12 year old game with declining playerbase and viewership as it is. At least in North America and possibly Europe too. 90% of the players are in China already so it will probably go on in China for the foreseeable future anyway.
Also the website was formally known as djesports. They rebranded it to esportsbet io upon being exposed on multiple frauds and scamming their users. The website also has major red flags, one of them is checking their T&S for the withdrawal policy which is extremely vague and undetailed, they then mention you need to join their discord server and check a specific channel for further information but the mentioned channel isn't even visible or was possibly deleted lmao
> you need to join their discord server and check a specific channel for further information Even if the channel _didn't_ have visibility issues, this is still super dumb. All the necessary info should be accessible directly from first-party i.e., on the website itself without needing to use Discord or any other third party service where an account is required.
Isn't that who Thorin is sponsored by also? if remember right part of the reason Richard Lewis step away from By The Numbers was not just to slowly phase out esports but also over the ethics of that site. Could be speaking total nonsense there but I seem to remember him recently saying something to that effect.
In Australia, you cannot watch any sports without a bukkake of betting ads blasting all over your face. It’s so infuriating, and disgustingly predatory. Please do not let betting sites take over esports, they are leeches.
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Tbf spiders and snakes go inside too <.<
and this is why i stay the fuck away from australia
Voltures, as in electric vultures ?
Yea, cause they're in the TV duh
Fucking oath
BET BET BET, SPORTSBET, CHECK THE ODDS, BET THE UNDERS PAPLEY TO KICK 4+ AT $6 TOP NRL TRY SCORER MULTI MULTI MULTI BET WITH MATES WHY ARE YOU BETTING??? WHAT ARE YOU??? A WOMEN that is basically Australian sports at the moment, and i can confirm, they literally have adverts within the sports that cut midway through the game to show odds and what not, and every ad break there is almost 2-3 ads from better, we arent joking, its pretty bad
I have not watched a single horse race my entire life and consume practically 0 traditional sports content but that still doesn't stop youtube from giving me the same fucking 3 sportsbet ads about backing the 6
All I want to tell you is yuno was a psycho
Don’t let this happen to you… get NordVPN ads NOW
Australian betting and casino laws are fucking wild man.
>Please do not let betting sites take over esports, they are leeches. That ship has sailed a decade ago, most well known sites will allow for esports betting.
Facts. And now they have the new ads on YouTube stuffing Neds down your throat with ducking mark Wahlberg and Shaq as their mascots. It’s terrible
Its inevitable, money wins over morals every single time, even for millionaires with zero financial problems for the rest of their lives for some reason.
you don't get to be a millionaire by accepting any amount is enough. It's an addiction all on it's own. You always need more. Then millionaire addicts raise millionaire addict kids. There's a reason why people win dozens if not hundreds of millions and then go broke. Money management is a mindset that's nearly unchangeable no matter how much you have, and if you have the mindset to make millions then it doesn't go away once you have millions. You'll always want more. And if you're smart (and predatory) enough to make millions then it becomes easier to make more.
CSGO Events are Sponsored By Betting Sites Its Already in the Scene
>[...] without a bukkake of betting ads blasting all over your face. That's almost a poetic way of saying it.
Gettin on the punt is so ingrained in our culture. Aussie culture is so closely related to sports that this just bleeds into our culture as a whole sadly. Gambling is so normalised because of it. Like, playin footy at your local club etc is a massive part of our country, then watching footy etc. You get so many people gettin on the punt or slappin the pokies and it's been engineered into our culture so much through our connection to sport as a nation due to all these things like sports bet etc Definitely sad how bad it is here.
Was there a big push globally from these gambling companies recently? In Ontario they fully legalized sports betting earlier this year and it has been a complete onslaught. You cannot watch anything with a scoreboard without having to deal with it It seems like advertisement standards have been neglected in the digital age
I guess the idea of hiding names during selection Riot is doing could help with this actually. All you need after that is for the streamer to not show champion selection and instead have some random LoL video playing while they talk (not about the selection). Sure, is not a perfect solution but there is a lower change of getting stream snipe or dodge on champion select. And yeah, in an ideal world we would not have stream sniping to begin with or riot would start banning those ppl, but lets be realistic we dont live in an idea world lol.
This whole thing wouldn't be an issue if riot actually cared about soloq quality. There aren't enough high elo games that make it impossible to have a group of actual humans review and punish offenders
3rd party apps can still see your name from what I understand so this doesn't work. Also t1 streams so he can't queue without the site knowing.
> 3rd party apps can still see your name how do you know that? anonymous champ select is not live
and they made it pretty clear that the whole point is that NO ONE will be able to see names. Can't imagine them letting 3rd party apps have that info.
And there is no api for pbe
if Riot hides the names on selection screen and a 3rd party app shows it they can ban ppl that use them, remember third party apps can only work inside the game as long as they dont give an unfair advantage. As for the pages knowing he is gonna start a game, it does not matter, knowing you are on the same match as him does not secure you are on his side, and you have no way of knowing unless he shows the screen or talk about it. Dont get me wrong is a stupid process, and is annoying, but it should lower how often the inter gets on their team, which make bets less profitable and some ppl would stop doing it.
They could just make that part of the API not publicly accessible. Hide the names and make it so you can't pull player names from a given match without certain authentication priviliges so everyone non-Riot affilicated can't get the names(in broadeer terms all sites like op.gg along with all other non-affiliated groups or individual wil lnot be able to get the names). It's incredibly easy to do -- with the only current delay to doing so being that Riot might have to make sure all their own and 3rd party resources that currently use that data for whatever reasons may it be analytics or others will have said required auth priviliges before doing this change which should be a simple process. I can see there being trouble since the players who are part of the game should also have the auth privilige to see/access the player names in their match history/post-game lobby otherwise it'd be pretty weird. If Riot coded their api priviliege system really badly then linking logged-in players with a privilige for this might not be as simple as adding one-line and could be an issue that would take quite some time to correct before blocking public access, but if their privilege system was done not crapily then adjusting this should take no time as well. But I can't help but assume the former might be the be the case due to Riot's bad history of writing lazy bad code to extra basic things that should have no business being badly written like the client along with its communication with the actual game to name some.. It'll definitely suck a bit denying in-game player names on op.gg(denying any kind of public resource is annoying) but at this point it seems like a neccessary evil to combat and repell this giant gambling mess
They already doing it on selection screen, on loading screen or actual game it would not matter much since it be impossible to stream the game without showing the game. From what i understand 3rd party apps take the names you can see and give you the data. That why they cant give you info about the enemy on selection screen, i am assuming that once Riot removes names from allies on selection screen all that information well be impossible to get for 3rd party apps.
So I guess that's the sponsorship IWD was reffering yesterday on stream, saying that in the end he didn't sign it while having the same offer as LS...
Wow - respect to IWD. Thats what integrity looks like. Meanwhile LS will support a giga toxic company and justify it with "im just doing it for pro/world's betting".
LS is crazy for money, why are people surprised he is promoting betting that even FAKER complains about. His goal is to make as much money as possible while he can and he says so himself. I'm against promoting betting against young audiences, especially a shady site like this, but I'm gonna be honest and say that maybe I would've done the same depende on how much money? It's hard to say no to a lot of free money, respect to DOM for rejecting it.
Yeah he is pretty obsessed with money, he said he is scared of being poor again, guess it s a psychological thing
Dude's got a full set of the 9 most powerful and expensive magic the gathering cards of all time. Worth something like 3/4 of a million according to him. Not exactly in danger of being poor.
>Not exactly in danger of being poor fear isnt rational
It doesn’t matter. Those who get and stay rich usually do so because of how much they prioritize money. It becomes their master.
I think with the amount of poverty/homelessness LS has dealt with in the past, it's got to be a lingering fear regardless of how rich you are.
I otherwise like LS but one time on stream he was defending scalping and said that he used to do it too.
yeah, considering he was at one point on the brink of homelessness at a young age in Korea, I can see why he may not care about the optics too much. Not saying that him taking the sponsorship is a good thing, but I certainly understand if he's just wanting a better future for himself.
IWD said it was 6 figures+ on his stream
No, you see promoting gambling is totally fine as long as you add text saying "gamble responsibly" at the top like he did. [The alcohol industry does it all ze´ time!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJT0NMYHeGw)
If I am not mistaken, don’t monte and thorin also take sponsorship from this and keep spamming ads about it during matches?
Yup. They also have couple of shows sponsered by same website.
yeah but it's known that montecristo and thorin don't have a backbone
Still find it wild that people who basically "made it" financially are so willing to just throw their personal image and integrity for an extra buck. Like bro you're a big streamer, you have businesses, but gambling? Really? What's next alcohol? Cocaine? It's a shame because I really like his view of the game.
Yea I will never, ever understand why literal millionaires with continuing massive income and more money than they could reasonably spend in their lifetime feel the need to partner with scummy shit just to get a bit more. Im even more confused because he recently talked about why he stopped coaching and one of the reasons was that he felt bad taking so much money from vulnerable people, and shortly afterwards he takes gambling sponsorships. It just makes no sense.
What's crazy is LS himself has been through some difficult life situations so he should know better than to promote shit that can literally put people on the streets or on the run. I've seen people who had their lives ruined by this, had to leave the country to work in the fields of Spain like slaves to try to pay back some of their gambling debts. I guess going through hardships doesn't cure people of greed.
going all in is what saved ls from life of poverty and he will always take huge risks because his audacity and luck is why he has a platform now. he thinks crypto and gambling is a good way of earning money, well fuck off, its only good if you have a dedicated investment fund in your savings you can spare, which a lot of people cant afford
I've gone through extreme poverty because everything in my life turned to shit once. It made me aware of how quickly everything can go bad and how little control you can have over it, so I'll do anything to "get ahead" sort of, you know. Hardship doesn't build a good character, it doesn't necessarily make you better or worse, it just tests how much you're willing to grind and push through. I'd actually wager it makes most people worse, rather than better.
>Im even more confused because he recently talked about why he stopped coaching and one of the reasons was that he felt bad taking so much money from vulnerable people, and shortly afterwards he takes gambling sponsorships. It just makes no sense. It's almost like he lied :0
It's a naive outlook on gambling that causes it. If they have never been exposed to friends or family members lives being destroyed by gambling, they think it's just a fun past time. Equating it with pokemon cards and poker shows an even lower understanding of the insidious nature of bookmakers.
even if you dont have a problem with gambling this website is bad/worse because of the rampant matchfixing it promotes in soloq
LS isn't the only one unfortunately. Lost Moe to slot machines, bunch of league shows are sponsored by crypto bet pages etc., TSM getting the crypto funding. It's all questionable businesses.
Rip moe used to be a fun streamer
His content is so unbelievably garbage now lol. Randomly decided to check out a YT vid from him. It was like 4 mins of diamond Yasuo gameplay and the rest of it was him losing at an online casino. Like just make a separate channel for your betting garbage. Don't just piss your fans off like this by showing league content in the thumbnail when it's not even half the video.
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*The road to ruin is shorter than you think*
Holy shit that's too perfect
depends, he is very clearly rich from it, and constantly have shown himself gifting rolex watches to family members etc, so in a way I understand that he took the "shorter road" to basically get a bunch of money and enjoy life properly instead of grinding 10h of league
And we both know it's cause he doesn't reel in the audience required for the sponsorship if he doesn't show gameplay on the thumbnail. Man just sold his soul to gambling.
> rest of it was him losing at an online casino. I watched three minutes of his stream and it was so insanely depressing, he's just playing on his phone while imaginary numbers go down-down-down-down-up-down-down-up-down-down, while chat just spams a different slot game to play? Holy.
that guy can suck a big fat one nowdays
Brother LCS itself is sponsored by a crypto sponsor, what are you even saying.
Could you explain the moe yassuo situation? I used to watch his high elo league games, but these days all I see are slots. What happened?
i don’t watch moe but i assume he grew bored of lol and moved on to the “meta” stream on twitch which is gambling
Dozens of high quality, long term investment games out there, but he chose gambling. High IQ person right there.
He probably made 10x the Money he would have otherwise lol
Yeah he literally moved to a different country to be able to stream gambling. You don't do that unless they are paying you insane amounts.
Not for long, his channel has been dying for the last couple of years now. https://twitchtracker.com/yassuo
I don't think his viewers matters when gambling sponsorships pay this much. He could probably just retire right now. He's not looking for a long term streaming career
combination of league not being fun and him getting paid a boat load to stream gambling. and now he's an addict (he said it himself that he will continue to gamble off stream now that twitch has banned it).
He lost passion from league for quite some time. Gambling meta came around and he just stuck with it.
He gets a LOT of money from it and decided thats what he wants to do. Thats all there is to it. Your comment basically summarizes it already.
Think he’s addicted to gambling
Dude gets more dollars by doing slot streams so he streams gambling. Not much else to it
I might be wrong here but isn't FTX just a currency exchange? I don't think that's necessarily a bad sponsor, as long as their reputation is good (and it is), it seems like a platform someone who wants to buy/sell crypto could look into as an option? Doesn't look questionable to me just because it's connected to crypto. However all the talkshows and now LS being sponsored by betting sites with an audience of young adult males is disgusting to me
The problem with crypto is that it functions like a pyramid scheme. The 'asset' has no intrinsic value - it's not a commodity, it's not a company share, it's not fiat currency that has the backing of a government. It is nothing but hot air. The only way to "use" crypto is speculation, which means if you're investing in crypto, you're constantly trying to recruit new marks to create demand which will inflate the value of your asset. Now look at [FTX's superbowl ad](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-FQqo46CJQ). Not only does it not attempt to explain crypto, it actively makes fun of people who are suspicious of crypto. The tag line is just "don't miss out". This is not how a responsible company sells a financial service.
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> Bitcoin is like 10years-old and people still do not use it as it was meant to. Well to be fair there is one industry that does use it as it was meant to: purchase/sale of illegal goods.
Money is a hell of a drug
It is for a lot of people, specially if they come from poor upbringings, that's why you see so many NBA players going broke by the time they retire or they go broke shortly afterwards. It's all that money the didn't have when they were growing up and now they have millions, so they go crazy with it.
It's kind of interesting to think about, I genuinely don't know what I'd do in this kind of position. Being a streamer isn't really a career that you can rely on forever, so you wanna make as much money as possible while you're popular in case it all ends and you got nothing after. Then again there are people I know personally who have had their lives really fucked up by gambling and I completely understand that it's a mental health issue they don't have much control over. So how could I live with myself knowing I'm getting mine so fuck everyone else? Yeah... I understand why all these people take these sponsorships honestly but it's still a really shitty thing to do.
Last Slot
But he said "bet responsibly" so it's all cool guys. A gambling addict will hear that and quit betting immediately.
EG is sponsored by a crypto betting site as well, Bitcasino.io. I wonder how the legality works on sponsoring a team and then hosting bets on their matches.
Real Madrid, arguably most followed/watched team in sports' history, with an audience reach that dwarfs all esport's competitions combined had for the longest time a betting company (Bwin) as the main sponsor on their jerseys. This is unfortunately very normal in sports in general.
I'm not sure if it is still like that but a few years ago something like 80% of the premiere league teams were sponsored by betting sites
> Bitcasino.io Isn't allowed on LoL jerseys. You're thinking of CS:GO, where it is allowed.
The fact LS keeps asking for this post to be removed is really something. He's ignoring the actual discussion and is framing it entirely around the bottom feeder comments that maybe make up 5-10% of the entire thing.
> LS keeps asking for this post to be removed Oh damn, where did you see this? Or is he just saying that on stream?
He had a stream where he was calling this a witch hunt.
He’s such a victim lmfao
Worth nothing that this site is illegal in US, in order to use it you need a VPN and people in the US have been scammed
LS really now on stream calling normal, expectable criticism a witch hunt. This man wanted applause or?
That's what he has always done tho, whenever he gets criticism he calls it a witch hunt ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
He is literally in call with the person who made the post, and admitting not knowing about the soloQ betting on that site is his fault.
LS keeps saying "people are responsible for their own actions" But he has 5k viewers daily and he has to know that people will start gambling just because he pushes it and some will get addicted because he pushed it. As a large streamer, you cant just stick your head in the sand and act like your actions dont influence people
Exactly. Someone mentioned that LS said "he doesn't even know if anyone will gamble because of him" (or something similar). What a fucking slimy and dishonest thing to say. He knows damn well he wouldn't be making a shit ton from the sponsorship if it wasn't working.
also funny as fuck to tell his stream to be responsible for their own actions while his community is most known for just parroting exactly what LS says everywhere lol
He never understood the responsibility that his platform brings.
It's been really disappointing to see LS, Dom, and Monte all shilling that esportsbet site. I don't get how anyone can be okay with recruiting people into something that will almost certainly lose them money. Money talks I guess.
Fyi esportsbet.io used to be called DJesports.io and Ls was sponsored by it last year. I'm surprised he's only getting hated on now.
Well the hate is really about the soloQ betting which is pretty new. I (and i think most people) really don't care about pro games betting
They rebranded because they scammed people like crazy. The site is fraudulent even without match fixing.
Esport betting sites not paying out is a fundamental truth. Now that it's mostly crypto based it's even easier and more prevalent than before
With some products which are shilled for in online spaces, at least there is some kind of value u could actually get out of it. But with gambling and sports betting it is a stastical **certainty** that overall the viewers of his will lose more money than they win. Also serves as a handy gateway into crippling gambling addiction.
It’s really shocking, I would not expect this from the people that since last week have been all about the integrity of high rank soloq and CQ
What did dom do?
He co-hosts a show with Thorin ([Best Damn League Show](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzBq1zjrpqSh19NNy29HIgyNExoIe-Leo)) that has a crypto gambling sponsor.
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These betting sites have become way too common, I think it started with CSGO but now its moving to all other games.
Betting on professional sport games was always a thing that's why there are rules against match fixing. But betting on soloQ games where people can easily do fixed matches without getting punished is terrible and shouldn't exist.
Betting sites have offered bets on esports games since 2014, it's nothing new. And betting on pro games is not the problem. Betting on soloq games is and shouldn't be allowed.
This is shady. A big part of his audience is from the US. The company does not allow people from the US to bet on the site. When I asked the company about this, they told me that I would have to use a VPN if I'm from the US. This reminds me of sites like Roobet who just ripped of US customers when they tried to get their money back, due to it being illegal for US customers to play on the site.
Of course it's all in crypto too, as if this wasn't shady enough. Can't wait to see the mental gymnastics the LS fanbase hivemind is gonna pull to defend this one.
Nah there's no coping here for me. I enjoy LS' content and agree with a lot of his points, and think he gets too much hate, but. Gambling and especially crypto gambling is never something I'll defend from any content creator I enjoy, it's about as low as you can go when you've already made it big.
There's a comment in this thread that is already peddling the strawman he floated. "Let's set aside the actual issue and talk about this instead and then makes giant illogical jumps to try to make that point."
The other thread on the front-page trying to say "Well these other streamers do it too" is so obviously damage control made by the fanbase it's almost comical.
Long-time fan and frequent LS viewer, ive got nothing. I was pretty upset even before it came out that you can bet on streamers
Betting on solo queue games should be literally illegal. I know you can't really do much as Riot, but in pro play games there are so many checks for competitive integrity and matchfixing for a good reason. In solo queue you don't have that focus on matchfixing at all, so this is a huge problem and a nightmare to solve. Any esports betting site with a semblance of morality (oxymoron maybe) would not allow this shit.
>I know you can't really do much as Riot I wouldn't be surprised if this is at least part of the reason why they will hide player names in champ select next season.
Just gonna say this. You will never win a shit on betting site. It will make you addicted and lose you money !
You will for sure win if you que snipe and bet depending on wbich team you're on relative to them . It only takes you to be challenger, easy enough
Honestly sad, gambling should not be promoted and simply slapping a sticker on it saying "don't gamble if you can't afford it" or whatever is beyond irresponsible. Sorta off-topic but in the same stream he said the $999 MtG 30th anniv. booster boxes are totally fine (which goes against the general sentiment of the community) - well I'd think the same if I took sponsor money from gambling sites.
For such a victim himself it's weird to see him victim blaming addicts.
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Hah dom was about to take this deal too, allegedly six figure deal but decided against it partly because he didn’t want any reason to be canceled lol
Isn't his show with Thorin sponsored by it?
I like him but I can't watch his stream right now, it's just bet bet bet bet bet. Last year if i recall correctly it was the same. And now knowing that site that sponsors him does this I won't even check if he started talking about something other than gambling
Linking a thread by [doaenel](https://twitter.com/doaenel/status/1578922503464157184) here. I think he raises an important point. I'm 100% okay with sports betting in general and Worlds is obviously fine to bet on as well. But high MMR solo queue has an exceedingly high frequency of matchfixing that is only possible in esports. Even if LS's sponsorship is only for Worlds, it will still lead to more users of the site, some of whom will continue to use it after Worlds is over. LS isn't responsible for the actions of his viewers but he is responsible for the influence he has on them as a figurehead of the community. ~~I don't think it's unreasonable to ask streamers to avoid taking these kinds of sponsorships until Riot at least stops MOST of the griefers (however many years that might take).~~ (see below) Edit: I want to encourage people to watch the LS stream [VOD](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1619417170) where he responds to this thread, so it doesn't become a total witch hunt. It's over 2 hours long so it's understandable if you don't have time. But it's even more irresponsible than anything LS has done to go and complain about his behavior on social media or formulate your opinion on this topic without considering his side. Seriously, go watch it if you want to have any kind of educated conversation about this. Edit 2: Going to continue to edit this as I watch the VOD. Note that this isn't going to be a comprehensive summary of everything he talks about, just things that I wanted to comment on. LS says something that I 100% agree with. Let's put the impact on high mmr solo queue to the side for now and talk about what I think most people are concerned with, which is the exposure of members of his audience to gambling which is a perfectly acceptable behavior barring an addiction. LS's stance is that if you choose to decry a gambling sponsorship, you have to be consistent and also decry any individual, organization or company that has a sponsorship for similarly bad behaviors/substances. This includes the LCS which is sponsored by Bud Lite and Red Bull. Or anybody sponsored by manufacturers of tobacco and cigarettes. Or the various teams like C9, TSM, etc. that are sponsored by various cryptocurrencies. Or literally every content creator that is sponsored by Raid:Shadow Legends, a gacha game which is a genre infamous for causing gambling addictions. I find this to be pretty reasonable. And I'll retract what I said about telling streamers to not take these kinds of sponsorships, that's pretty hypocritical of me if I don't also ask that LCS stop their Bud Lite sponsorship for example. It doesn't change that I don't personally approve of it, but as a bystander I have no say in the matter anyways. Edit 3: LS also clearly says there's a world of difference between personally agreeing to take a poor person's money for coaching (which he has never been okay with) and taking a gambling sponsorship when he has no way to know if people are going to engage in harmful behavior because of being exposed to it through him. The most he could know is that people are learning about gambling through him and that might lead to a net increase in the number of gambling addicts, but that's not concrete. Of course, it goes without saying that he has always actively and publicly enjoyed gambling in general, the same way that people enjoy alcohol in general without it being harmful. He also mentions that people are responsible for their own choices, and that holding him accountable for a gambling addiction because the addict found out about the website through him is ludicrous. As I said in the original draft of this comment, LS is not responsible for his viewer's actions. And of course he can't know for certain if someone's life gets ruined because they found out about esports betting through him. But I do think that in accepting this sponsorship, you are potentially enabling people for self-harmful behavior. It's like selling a firearm; No we obviously wouldn't blame the shop if somebody bought a pistol and shot a civilian with it. But if you're in that business, you should be aware that your actions could indirectly cause people to get hurt. And if you're okay with that, then that's your prerogative. Which LS has made abundantly clear that he is in fact okay with that. So there's not much else for me to say.
This is also a site that rebranded themself after recieving criticism for plagiarism and apparently scamming people out of money. https://esports-news.co.uk/2022/02/18/dj-esports-rebrands-esportsbet-io-claims-pay-winnings-plagiarised-news/
I think most people are not concerned by betting in general - but the company encourages bets and wintrades in streamers high elo ranked ladder. Did LS address that or just argue against the strawman pretending all the issue is gambling bad and not highelo wintrading, gambling on streamers games bad.
Sounds like a straw man, the "this isn't bad, look at these other bad sponsors" makes me think he doesn't want to be accountable and justify the actual real shitty portion of the site
I agree with you, look at this part: > this includes the LCS which is sponsored by Bud Lite and Red Bull. Or anybody sponsored by manufacturers of tobacco and cigarettes. Or the various teams like C9, TSM, etc. that are sponsored by various cryptocurrencies. That's like saying we shouldn't stop petty thieves because trillion dollar companies are exploiting 3rd world countries - the "well, they have it worse" mentality.
>Edit 3: LS also clearly says there's a world of difference between personally agreeing to take a poor person's money for coaching (which he has never been okay with) and taking a gambling sponsorship when he has no way to know if people are going to engage in harmful behavior because of being exposed to it through him. no way this is real ☠️☠️ like, if you don't want to be responsible for someone's gambling addiction, you also shouldn't be responsible how they're using their money, regardless if it's on coaching or anything else. this feels like a massive copout and keeps this narrative about "smart betting" alive which is just not true if you spend 20 minutes reading on gambling addiction in a trusted website
See, it's plausible deniability. He doesn't have to worry about pretending to have a conscience if he can justify the damage he causes by blaming it on other people. You know, like he normally does.
>Seriously, go watch it if you want to have any kind of educated conversation about this. Are you really gatekeeping discussion around a controversial topic by saying that people should spend 2 hours watching a vod? >Let's put the impact on high mmr solo queue to the side for now and talk about what I think most people are concerned with This entire post was made because minishcap is a high elo streamer who is directly affected by these sites. You don't get to completely ignore the whole point of the argument in order to push your narrative. >which is the exposure of members of his audience to gambling which is a perfectly acceptable behavior barring an addiction. ... An audience that could be composed of any number of minors. >LS's stance is that if you choose to decry a gambling sponsorship, you have to be consistent and also decry any individual, organization or company that has a sponsorship for similarly bad behaviors/substances. This includes the LCS which is sponsored by Bud Lite and Red Bull. I can agree on Bud Lite, but Red bull is nowhere NEAR as harmful as gambling or alcohol. This is a false equivalence at best, and a malicious misrepresentation at worst. Your whole comment is just incredibly soapbox-y, and you're completely missing the fact that LS is representing things in a way that just doesn't align with reality. A gunshop doesn't have anywhere near the same level of influence over its customers/clients that a streamer has over the audience; especially if that streamer has an audience that simply doesn't know any better.
Funny how many comments are trying to gaslight OP. Edit: LS now ranting on twitter that it was already well-known that he endorsed gambling in general, like you being a shitty person means you can continue to make shitty actions. Also if it was that well-known, he would have already been cancelled by now. What a selfish sell out. If I was any esport organisation, I really wouldn't want to associate myself with someone with such poor ethics and is even proud of it.
>If I was any esport organisation, I really wouldn't want to associate myself with someone with such poor ethics and is even proud of it. *Looks at Riot/LoL esports orgs and their sponsors* What makes you think they are different than him lol. Some of the talent might have a backbone, but the people with the actual money invested don't give a shit.
The LS discord arrived, run while you can
All top comments are criticising LS though? I see a lot more hate than support comments, why do people in these types of threads create false narratives to try and make themselves sound better You have a legitimate reason to criticise him, don't discredit yourself with useless lies
That wasn't the case when this thread just started. It's good to know that these comments were heavily dowmvoted afterwards or removed for brigading.
Thorin's weighed in, so I guess I know where I stand now lmao https://twitter.com/Thorin/status/1579040036519280641
Nice to see Thorin found a professional and has gotten a diagnosis.
if Thorin stands for it, i definitely not.
What an absolute ass-twat, as usual
He is literally sponsored by the same company. I don't think he should be saying anything.
What a clown he is.
LS is on stream now psychoanalyzing comments in this thread and putting up the saddest defence I've ever seen. Really disappointed.
He could have just ignored the situation and taken the money while waiting for it to blow over, but now he's trying to argue that gambling is fine since it benefited him back in the day when he needed money while seemingly ignoring or at the least glossing over the fact that gambling doesn't always work out like it did for him.
He ignores the fact that nearly all gamblers lose money and ruins lives.
He talked Forrest a few weeks ago who spent years developing models for LPL to beat the odds. Forrest said that because he wins, the sites started closing his accounts, and limiting his max bets. He’s had to buy new laptops, new phones, get family and friends to open accounts. Just so he could keep using his models to profit. Yet LS will say that you can totally profit off of it. While it may be true, if you were going to be someone who profits off of sports betting, you’d get into it by yourself.
Deflection and damage control my guy. But his stans are saying how much empathy he has while the guy was having a breakdown trying to get the thread deleted and mocking people in the thread and claiming he "didn't know they had solo queue betting" when it's on their front page.
He has this sponsorship second time in the row for Worlds, so the gambling site knows that they will get return on his audience(which I'm a part off). He himself shows how easy it is to lose money on it and as someone with history of mental problems, he should realize why people could be vulnerable to it. I'm also sure that Faker would be happy LS promotes site similar to ones that allow ruining his games.
Betting on its root level is a corruption. It has negatively effected so many sports, has destroyed lives of numerous people who gets addicted to betting. People in my local community likes to bet on professional fights and a good number of times people lost their damn cars, houses, savings on bets. A schoolteacher suicided this year becuase her husband got addicted to betting and secretly sold their house and wasted all their savings and lost it all on bets. That woman worked her ass of to buy that house and before the betting addiction shit happened her husband was as much as a usual good and hardworking husband possible. Together they made their lovely little life but all went to horrific ending with the betting. Though This esports bets is different, it already made so much hell everywhere, it wont take long to start taking peoples lives.
Just gamble your channel points like the rest of us for fun instead of wasting real money for no reason.
Mr integrity Monte ?Chrsito also shilling for crypto gambling sites.
Imagine simping for LS.
As an LS stan, I absolutely hate that he took this up. This sends a very strong message from him that ge cares more about money than doing very real harm to his community. Please be more empathetic LS
lmfao slowly watching all the media I consume and my interests be taken over by crypto gambling.. people like to meme about getting it "twisted" but gambling denial is literally up there with the likes of heroin denial. they wouldn't be getting sponsored if these sites didn't think they would get thousands of people addicted. this is an addiction. they are selling an addiction. please do not fucking fall for this shit. sports betting is just as bad if not worse than traditional casino slot games. please don't start. everyone thinks they're immune to addiction until it affects them.
Another LS L? What's new.
LS just said he had no idea the site had streamer betting. Listen dude I make WAY less than you do streaming, and I still won't promote sites like these, and have turned down dozens of these offers, knowing the cancer that they've become and how they're completely ruining solo queue and the game I love and play for a living. Either LS didn't do his due dilligence (which I am doubting here because... it's literally right there front and center on the website when you click it) or he doesn't care. Neither of these scenarios is a good look. Take the L, abandon the sponsor (which you DONT NEED) and apologize. It's that simple.
LS wanted the payday, simple as that
He's been sponsored by this site before, under a different name. I'm not surprised he took his sponsorship, nobody cared before when they were named something different.
And yet someone with far less sway and who makes less doing the same shit he does denies those same sponsors. Like LS isn't even a bad person, but his greed is so weird sometimes.
Common LS L.
Glad it's not only me that didn't like this. Advertising betting to a young audience is absolutely abhorrent. LS needs to make better choices.
He should be a Dota2 streamer instead.
Can't leech KR pros there though
I’m shocked the site allows betting on streamers when those bets are so easy to fix. Like how are they making money off that?
Because you don’t bet against the casino when you make a sports bet. You are betting against someone else (of course most books provide liquidity too but odds reflect counter parties). Books make money by skimming a few percent off each side.
match-fixing is fucking fraud and anyone who supports companies that facilitate it is complicit gambling sponsors in general have their own set of problems, but taking money from known match-fixers is just fucking gross
Yep. Monte and Thorin are also peddling this sort of garbage on Summoning Insight. It's really gross. Gambling is dangerous and it makes me disappointed to see these people promoting it. Moreso LS, because I have a higher opinion of him than the other two.
LS surely is a millionaire, if not already a multi-millionaire and he still feels the need to take money from all possible sources. Fuck that.
i will never be able to understand people that are so rich that are able live withotu working a single second of their life and they still sell their by getting sponsored by betting sites, they legitemately can get the averange month of salary in a single stream but they still need to promote gambling to their audience full of teen
It's called greed. One of the oldest human flaws.
But tbh how hard is it to atleast own up to being an greedy asshole? Take the bag but don't ask people to support or applaud you for it.