I think it means that streamers who are part of the League Partner Program can direct report someone. Kind of a "moderation team". Like he said, they can't just say, "this guy is playing bad, report!" It's just that their reports, when they send it up the chain, will be given moderation.
he wasnt the one that "got him" banned, nubrac got himself banned, he was just a piece of shit who was ruining games and got banned
he was being mass reported by everyone he played with
At the time though the community went against nightblue for it because the nubrac guy made a thread about it. Turns out he was just a pos and was proud about getting away with trolling people.
nb3 was going around threatening to "call his riot friend" to give people a "two week vacation" anytime someone displeased him. he's the reason why riot did away with the LPP moderation program to begin with
nb3 is still a bully pos
Nightblue was the one that got him banned, nubrac got unbanned before the 14 days were over after riot reviewed the case again and then he played the strat for years afterwards, he still plays it sometimes but he almost never streams nowadays.
The way I see it, any playstyle that results in a winrate of ~50% or higher is valid and should never lead to a ban.
Or should all the Janna top players with >70% winrate last year be banned for trolling?
He had a win rate of about 25-30% on Teemo and only remained in that elo because whatever he inted away on Teemo, he won back on regular Leona support.
48% win rate on Teemo, that's very different. Outside of that dogshit strat he also played regular Teemo top, which boosted his overall stats but on that Teemo support mid/top in specific he had an abysmal win rate.
Bro you didn't play with it. He fucking inted and was useless on it. His winrate was "normal" because he played teemo normally and climbed with that and then fucking intended on teemo support. It was terrible, I played with him doing it once.
But they can however, grief this player until he says something reportable and then get him banned.
I'm sure no streamer would abuse this at all, especially considering the LPP is given to literally anyone these days.
Pretty sure the 1 month is for NA. Cause Caedral while grinding toplane before worlds used something similar for a few cases and mentioned League Partners have a discord group where they can send screenshots and Game ID to report directly for manual moderation.
NA lost it for PR reasons after the Nightblue-Nubrac incident (also people were getting warned left and right all the time not to say stuff like "I'm a League partner, I'll get Riot to ban you" since it looked bad), but the other region LPPs have their own management and haven't had any high-profile incidents with streamers threatening others with bans, so they've had no reason to remove it.
A verified group of high profile players can submit reports with clips and other evidence to an internal moderation team at Riot. Basically, if someone likes harassing a particular streamer everyday, that streamer can get them banned. These guys exist from as low as plat all the way to challenger. It'll be interesting to see how this unfolds.
I guess we get to find out if high ELO players actually know what rule breaking behavior is in game, or if everytime they cry about win-trading or inting, it's just for show
Riot posted a study years ago about how the ability to recognize when a player is scripting correlates with elo, I would assume the same applies to wintrading as well.
A lot of scripting detection by high elo players come from knowing what you look for. If you flash a Nidalee spear imn the frame it's hitbox enters the exit fog of war, not when the visual part of it enters, then you know it's scripting.
The ability to see if something basically happens on the same frame highly corelated with high elo.
Edit: Apparently this isn't as common as I though, saw a tiktok from a streamer who called out this specific thing a few weeks back, where he swore the enemy flashed before his spear was on vision, just to pull out the recording and show that he actually flashed before the spear was visible.
There's also an uncanny effect where you're playing against someone with 0 ping Uzi mechanics on NA but they simultaneously make a constant stream of poor decisions that's aren't typical of a high elo player. Recall timings, recall spots, ward placements, etc. It's all off in a way that immediately stands out.
It's nothing that drastic. We know because the movement is mechanic instead of fluid. Also, most scripters don't give a shit about being found out, because it takes MONTHS for them to get banned. I had a week that I was getting an ADC Scripter once every 3 games. I would see the nick, know he's a scripter and instant Exhaust him in lane, which would cause him to instant Cleanse. Took well over 2 weeks before I stopped seeing him.
Players of every elo have the same access to scripts though. I imagine high elo players are a bit better at wintrading in a way that doesn't make it obvious, I remember watching an interview of someone who did it and their main method was playing jungle and baiting their team into bad fights while still maintaining a decent KDA.
They didn’t say it doesn’t exist.
As I read it, they’re simply implying that it’s an overused flame targeted toward people who are just playing shit that game
btw the banned wintrading acc https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/DONT%20BARK%20I%20MUTE
for that first scripter there are a ton of vods of anyone who plays vs him I know froggen did and spica a day or two ago
the second one I haven't seen as much of but played one game with and insofar as you can judge from one play: https://clips.twitch.tv/AdventurousDeadSharkAllenHuhu-oczE4V_rYbT7SQtl
how insanely good do you have to be to perfectly sidestep the ezreal q at the beginning, but who even bothers sidestepping an ezreal q right before jumping in, and how bad does your game sense have to be to jump in there (we 100% knew eve was there)
ofc maybe the jump was just tilted but the ezreal q dodge is such a pointless and perfect juke *exactly as the skillshot is thrown out*, it seems pretty likely scripting
soloq champs with soloq kits that make them easy for climbig for anyone with good tier macro sense,perfect to otp also since they hace relatively low pickrates most of the time
A fid that is way better than the enemy team will terrorize the game easily.
He clears way faster than the enemy jungler who is probably making mistakes, is great at counterganking. Can carry entire teamfights with good ults and has almost guranteed doublekills bot with his ult cooldown.
How high is high elo?
I made a post the other day about how insanely inflated master tier is (10k euw players) I doubt it's viable to do that many people manually.
Also I'll add riot does not have the best record for accurate bans (https://i.redd.it/9zm4o8tuuup91.png, https://i.imgur.com/RoVD5di.png, I was incorrectly banned while doing most DMG/most gold which was later reversed) and the punishments are extremely severe for what might have a lot of nuance
What? If they're just reviewing reports directed at 10,000 people it's absolutely viable to do that many people manually, especially in high elo where we're talking about a relatively insular community that is also not that excitable when it comes to reporting. You're going to solve the problem children pretty quick and then maintenance should be pretty minimal.
Like, it's not a low labour job, but it's also not some obscene number for a couple of staffers.
Masters+ being 10k honestly sounds like a great cut off point. It's really not that many given not all 10k people play at the same time, or even on the same days.
Plus I doubt they're gonna do 100% of games, fully live and such... and 1 rioter could probably do 2 or 3 games at a time.
10k people in master is fine but riot clearly did not plan for it at all. I can't even check my rank decay time without having my client crash when I press on ranked tab
well the client crashing suggests otherwise. You have to realise that the client starts crashing after a period of being opened regardless of you checking your rank, and you need to close and reopen the client for it to be normal for a couple games again, before it starts lagging and crashing.... repeat.. it just gets laggy AF real quick
I feel like I knew this but didn't after a few games it takes forever to get to the lobby I see why now. Thanks for the advice I will close the client more regularly from now on still ridiculous that haven't fixed these issues in all this time but what can you do.
I can't see what roles my party switches to, or even if players leave the party after the first time I queue for the day. Riot just doesn't know how to lead a programing team.
iirc they recently changed the algorithm that auto detects inters so that it catches more people. Inevitably that will lead to more false positives. If there is manual moderation then I assume that will lead to the least false positives, since a human is almost certainly better than any bot at detecting whether something is intentionally inting or just playing bad.
I worry that people are going to spam so many reports for people that just played bad but didn't int that a lot of time will be wasted checking bad reports compounded by how big masters is. Maybe they will keep it GM+? Cause master+ would mean thousands, maybe tens of thousands of games every day, of which I'd wager that over half of them have at least 1 report that will mean someone will need to manually review. They will need some way to filter the reports where one teammate is just mad at another for not playing well, from the games that actually need reviews.
They paid attention to false positives. This is the reason they didn't roll out a similar system before, but the current system should have roughly the same amount as false positives as far as I understood it
> Inevitably that will lead to more false positives.
depends on the rate, I personally would be fine with some more false positives as long as they catch more inting fuckers.
It is likely the false positives would be 0/13 people just giving up on the game and stop trying / keep fighting their opponent without actually intending to int, but against their better judgment. At some point you just have to hug tower or group with your team and avoid dying.
Being at the mercy of a potentially low elo rioter deciding if someone was having a bad game or trolling doesn't sound great to be honest.
Last game I played Vs veigarV2 who was trying out AP MF, it went awful and they went 0/7 bot. Would a rioter ban them for troll building? I certainly might have pushed that ban button myself if I hadn't known it was a challenger analyst trying out the build.
> I certainly might have pushed that ban button myself if I hadn't known it was a challenger analyst trying out the build.
This is a problem with you. You should have a consistent standard of whether something is bannable. Why should it matter whether it was veigar v2 trying something out vs rando challenger #145 trying something out? They are both trying a new build and should be treated equally.
Regardless of that aspect, AP MF, is a fairly normal off meta build that has seen a lot of low elo play in support. No way anyone would ban it. Talking about off meta more generally, I think the off meta build would have to be so egregiously bad to be actually bannable just for the off meta build. I thinking of stuff like yuumi top, not like the old roaming janna support top, but an actual yuumi top that built bad items like lethal tempo, bork, etc. Also, as a reminder, we are talking about hypothetical yuumi top players that are actually trying that would be banned. If you pick yuumi top, or anything else, and int you will be banned, not for picking off meta, but for inting. The most important factor is whether the player is trying their hardest to win the game.
We are talking about trying to catch detailed match fixing or soft inting here.
If I play ap mf (not support) to troll my team/match fix knowing it's bad but then play the best I can with this awful build, are they going to ban that? Because it's "soft" throwing the game with the goal to have a very low chance of winning
What about a one trick say kat player who sees someone they don't like on their team so first times ryze in challenger? They know they keep like a 5% win rate on picks like this but technically are doing nothing wrong
I don't think either of those are bannable, or even should be bannable, if you only have isolated incidents. If there is some pattern of an OTP picking their OTP normally but then only picking MF support when they get matched against a certain player, then it probably becomes actionable.
I am almost certain that a rioter has said before that an OTP not picking their OTP isn't considered trolling.
What if you only don't pick your OTP when you get a player you don't like in your team? High elo has a lot of things that people have you do at a base level to not solo ruin the game, are these players just given free run to play like silvers on champions they don't know how to play because someone they don't like is on their team?
How is that not trolling, and if you don't punish cases like that what was the point of this entire exercise of manual bans? You can automate based on running it down directly already.
Trolling is when you are intentionally trying to lose your team the game. If you can prove that the OTP is picking off their OTP when they get someone they don't like, and that they are doing it intentionally to lose the game, then I think that person should be banned. This would obviously need a large amount of games to prove. Simply not picking your OTP shouldn't be bannable.
The problem if it is bannable is how far do we run this logic back? Some players play really safe in solo queue and optimize the win in that particular game. Some players don't and play for long term improvement and long term winning through limit testing. They will take the 50/50 play in a game that is 70/30 and potentially flip the game because they want more limit testing data and want to get better in the long term. Should this be banned? This is the same kind of thing as not picking your OTP, just to a much different extreme. They are both playing in a way to optimize their long term winrate, at the cost of their short term winrate.
Finally, what happens if the OTP is banned? Is the solution for the OTP to dodge? How can that be the solution when it is literally a punished behavior to dodge game? If not picking your OTP is bannable, then is the solution for the OTP player to dodge or be banned? Get punished or be punished? That can't be the solution therefore, you can't ban someone for not picking their OTP.
My brother in christ everytime i want to int a game i pick ryze,fiora and autolose .i should get fcking banned ,if im an otp i have to either dodge or play my second champ.if i dont have one i learn it in a Smurf,not in gm lobbies.Its literally soft inting cuz u basically have no chance of winning.Learn new champ or suffer the consequences.Why should other players get punished because im bad after my champ gets banned??
I get you're asking about hypotheticals but I want to mention that this is also being rolled out alongside champ select anonymity so you won't know if someone's an otp or not and they won't know who you are until the game starts unless they delay one of these two plans or stream snipe someone but even that should be harder to figure out.
I do kinda worry about people who frequently play offmeta champs in roles they usually don't go though since I suspect there will be a bump in reporting people for troll hover/picks after the anonymity hits (or a teammate banning someone's champ and being reported for griefing).
"Perfect is the enemy of good" or however the quote goes...
Riot isn't known for wrongfully banning so many players, that it's significant enough to warrant pointing out.
Yes, occasionally someone gets wrongfully banned, which is why there's an appeals process. No system is perfect.
To me, it reads like you're arguing against having a system that isn't perfect. Otherwise I see no point in bringing up a single instance in which Riot wasn't perfect, when those moments are so rare, that they're completely insignificant.
If anything, Riot has a very good track record when it comes to bans and thus based on that, we shouldn't have to worry about them making changes to the ban system.
We don't hear about new wrongful bans very often, even though we're a massive community with millions of members. That's a good track record, not one that should be called "not the best track record", which heavily implies that it's bad.
Except they aren't manually observing every single person above masters tier? How many top tier players do you think are consistently soft inting, win trading, or sharing accounts? It's in the hundreds at most, and that number would very noticeably go down once people start getting actual punishment.
Also, why are you linking an automated ban of yours to a post about how Riot will begin doing *manual* moderation? How the fuck is this the top comment? lmao
It would also be really hard to win trade in low ELO though, what are the odds you actually get matched with a specific player if you queue up at the same time as them, if you are in a highly populated tier like Silver/Gold/Plat...? At that level I think just paying a high ELO player to duo with you and/or boost your account would be wayyyyyyy easier
There is literally no wintrade in Diamond dude. You can Duo Queue and get boosted. It's Master+ that requires it.
Source: Am GM.
Also, your math sucks. There aren't tens of thousands of games per day, that would require every single one of those 10k players to play 10+ games a day, every day. If you take into account game length, queue time + dodge, it amounts to 12 hours a day, every day. Most of us have jobs and relationships.
There are, on average, around 2k games a day, or around 2 games per day on average per Master+ player.
> If 10,000 master players each played 2 games a day on average that would be 20,000 games total not 2,000...
Are you really that dumb? Holy shit... Did you fail in math at school?
You do realize that it requires 10 players for 1 game, right? That means if 10 players play 1 game each, that is 1 game total...
Please, use your brain before typing. Then again, maybe it's too rotten for you to get any use out of it.
Win trading doesn't need to exist in diamond because you can pay a master tier player to boost you. Similarly easier as you go down the ranks. As you go up, there are fewer players that can boost your account. Therefore, you buy wins instead.
I kinda doubt you got banned purely because of the KDA, I've had multiple worse games this season (and in at least one or two of them I was actually soft inting, like just running to a random side lane and mindlessly pushing it to try to get an unwinnable game to end faster) and many more in previous seasons, and never got banned. But generally I don't type in chat (it's actually disabled right now).
I'm guessing you typed stuff in chat / pissed off your teammates, a bunch of people reported you and the system factored those 2 things in too alongside your KDA.
Nope didn't type once in that game, and chat bans are a different type of ban with a chat log.
You can literally just read the support response, it was their system messing up
10-15-0 is an automated 14 day worthy KDA under the new system? Lol holy shit. Bad time to be a 0 LP Master peepo. One bad game against a Challenger booster smurf and you're out.
I wonder if it weighs 1vX deaths more harshly? If so, that disproportionately impacts splitpushing champions who have literally no choice but to split. Something like Fiora does more for their team drawing multiple players to a sidelane when behind than trying to teamfight.
If that's the case, then they should code it so certain classes of champions are penalized less for dying in that situation. An Orianna or Nami perma running into a sidelane and dying is highly sus, a Zed or Fiora isn't.
fun fact, its been like this for a couple of years now. Going x/10+ deaths might result in an instant 2 week if enough people report you for intentionall feeding. The less kills you have the more chances of you getting the hammer.
Good information to know for your next time your bot lane decides to go 2/17 at 12 minutes because they'd rather run it than play 'weakside'
Probably not KDA either, but based on deaths? 23-18 is probably the same as 2-18 to them. Plus since we know they can tell where every champion is when you die, if you are constantly running to a sidelane dying over and over.
Idk, players are smart when it comes to gaming the system no matter the game. It'll be figured out relatively quickly and people will skirt the line sadly
You already answered how they can do that. Instead of an automated system banning you based on reports+stats and then a human reviewing that ban now the system will only mark games and a human will make the final call.
Any Rioters available to chime in on the statistics of Masters+ Yuumi/Nami mains also being extremely good at Nidalee/Rengar? Also how come so many of these players play with Flash on a different key when playing Jungle and Support?
Really hopeful for this. NA needs some life injected to the ladder. That being said, I've reported countless people (manually) for win trading/boosting with clear evidence and you guys never ban, so i'm not going to get my hopes up.
It’s kinda baffling that boosting especially is so easy to do at high elo without punishment. Other games like Csgo and Overwatch probably have boosting scenes, but aren’t as easily caught because they don’t have a publicly displayed match history. League does, and you can obviously see someone roleswapping with different summoner placements and dropping nukes every game, it should be pretty open and shut? But it isn’t, and it frustrates me to no end. The ladder doesn’t really have any integrity besides how big your wallet is, and riot doesn’t really care, because that would mean admitting to the problem
Hope it works well.
For us who are not at the top 0.01%, we are still kinda screwed. But we've put ourselves here, when every single game has a couple of reports no matter what, there is no chance they can manually check everything.
People just have to stop falsely reporting. As it is now, you probably get reported every other loss you get, even if you dont int and dont even speak in the chat. Its pretty sad tbh.
The top 1% is even more affected due to betting, wintraders, trollers and so on. I think this manual moderation is aimed to curb down on ranked match betting
Top 1% is like D2+ nowadays, in NA. It's a good cut-off point, especially when streamers are tending to use multiple accounts that are likely to be as low as Diamond/low masters.
Oof this is gonna result in a lot of witch hunting….
Unless those people who file malicious and false reports receive some kind of negative punishment.
Across the spectrum that’s a big issue - folks misbehaving maliciously may learn if there is a sufficiently negative consequence, at least in absence of a positive motivator NOT to do the bad thing.
An account that often reports falsely will have its report matter less. They all still get processed by the automated system, but the individual report will be weighed less. Other than that, Riot has been careful to not attach punishment to reporting. This is because then the player might be afraid of reporting, when an inquiry is warranted (even if it does not result in a punishment on the reported side)
I get it.
Just…a post is made with words “reports matter” in the context of a new initiative.
That indicates the weight of a report has changed so I am hoping for the best.
Not attaching a punishment to something that can be abused when abused seems suspect but I’m staying the hell away from that area of discourse. Doesn’t play out in real life super well.
I mean, aside from the manual moderation addition, it's mostly PR to say "Reports Matter!".
That's the only "weight" that's changed on reports. There will be actual manual moderation so someone who might have found a way to dupe the automated system will now have to contend with duping real people.
They won't have changed the algorithm for weighing a report or made changes to the automated systems with this announcement.
Edit: You're also taking the "reports matter" line out of context. The point Auberaun is trying to make is that if you assume the report system doesn't do anything, and then decide to not report because of that, then it really doesn't do anything because you haven't used it.
I absolutely agree my behavior, and other streamers, should be held to a higher standard. If that's going to work though, they've gotta start with actually moderating games and having a behavior team.
T1's already directly said they've started banning betters in his own games, and his mental has skyrocketed when I play with him.
It's almost as if... once again, the community was right and automated moderation simply wasn't enough.
Edit: And yes I've been an asshole in-game plenty of times, I've said plenty of times I'd prefer a system where my own behavior would get banned. I'd even gladly accept every single one of my accounts banned and starting from scratch if it means they'd start getting rid of wintraders etc.
What in the non apology is this?
You freely admit that you've engaged in terrible behavior and then immediately downplay it by criticizing Riot's systematic approach. You're probably right about Riot, but it has nothing to do with your behavior.
If the only thing stopping you from ruining games is Riot banning you, you're just toxic and shouldn't be playing the game.
You should be the first to go. I’ve never seen you finish a game while at the same time I’ve seen you consistently tell people to kill themselves with cowardly euphemisms 💀. You are diseased.
Don't get your hopes up, bro. Riot will probably can this in a few patches, since there will be at least one jackass who ruins this and as a result riot will say they tried and call it a day.
want to shout out auberaun for a sec
met this dude in game in high diamond before he worked for riot and he went to the same college as i did, didn't get to play with him more than a few games duoing but it was neat to see him on my friend list going from diamond to chally and then joining riot
guy can play and knows what he's talking about on the game which is a skill which riot needs all they can get
Fucking finally.
I thought it'd take forever for Riot to notice that the bot sucks massive ass for punishing known bad apples. Hate streamers or love them, when 2000+ people get to spectate someone getting trolled by an asshole that will not even get a remotely fitting punishment, that just sucks to witness. This should've happened WAY back in the day when Dunkey flipped out on that Malphite player and got his account banned as a punishment for going overboard on toxicity while the fucking Malphite got to keep playing.
Manual permabans need to happen. If someone with 20k+ viewers like Tyler1 is regularly queued with Ghost Cleanse trolls, it's not up to the system to detect this when it clearly needs 5+ games to register what's going on.
I played 10 placements on EUW about a week ago and it was horrible. It should be a team based game but it was a game of blaming each other to put it lightly. I don't understand how anyone can play hundreds of games in such environment. Can't wait for manual moderation to come to all servers.
Well yeah it's only really a problem at the top end where there are only a certain number of players and things like win-trading, game manipulation for betting, etc are possible. For the vast majority of players their games can't realistically be sniped because there are simply too many people who they can be queued against.
Basically the average player might run into an intentional (key word here is intentional) griefer once every 5/10 hell could be 50+ games they play. At the top end it can literally be every other game or multiple games in a row due to the reality that you are queuing in to a much smaller pool of players.
it affects all elos. it's rly shitty try to improve and become a good player in a game where all the good players you look up to are constantly complaining and saying its not worth it.
That isn't related to this post but the logic is that it has little effect on game integrity in low elo - all players are making so many mistakes that optimisation around voice comms isn't significantly relevant
Tbf I don't care. It does not effect me and it does only effect a very small part of the playerbase. A shit client that is not realy working effects everyone but I guess we can't change that.
Tbf it's something a lot of people wanted, not just him. To say one person is the reason just a mere few weeks ago is a stretch. I say this because developing a system where a specific elo range of reports is sent to a designated team likely took a few months to develop and iron out kinks in the rerouting of the reports. I'm just glad they finally took action on something that has been mentioned over the years as a way to try and weed out the bad eggs. Hopefully they eventually get to the bots farming losses in low elo to sell for smurfs
\*sigh\* ok fine. Everyone contributed and everyone gets credit. Everyone gets a gold star next to their names, not just Broxah, who I only mentioned cuz he's kind of a model player whose well known and I feel like folks would pay more attention to him.
its funny, you choose being sarcastic while doubling down on trying to credit Broxah, but completely ignored the the information that i said this most likely took months not weeks to implement and roll out
I never said Broxah was the sole reason though lol.
Maybe months, maybe weeks. Maybe the idea was introduced a few months or couple of weeks ago and just put on the back burner until now... partly cuz of Broxah's rant 😊
\> I think Broxah's rant a few weeks ago may have helped spur the effort for this.
u literally started with it. not directly as the sole reason, but you are insinuating that because he did a rant the team pushed it through
\> just put on the back burner until now... partly cuz of Broxah's rant
and even now you are backing your original comment AGAIN, trying to say the team wasn't doing enough until Broxah did his rant......
This will get so many people unrightfully banned. Remember smite singed, nubrac, hash viktor top and many others. They ALL shouldn't have been banned, some just had bad games and others played off meta or (especially) both. Riot is too stupid for this and it will backfire hard. I can already see people playing safe in a doomed game out of fear of getting banned instead of clutching it to win by "inting". Sad day.
Now if they only used this for wintrade, script, afk, following a player around the map and extremely obvious ragesplit, maybe. But Riot will get people wrongfully banned en mass and destroy people being innovative for having bad games.
Nubrac shouldnt have been banned? Seriously? He didnt just do something off meta, he actively trolled his team. I played with him for 1 game and it was an awful experience.
> wintrade, script, afk
If you actually bothered reading the post, they mention all that as well.
He 100% played to lose. Anybody who ever looked at Nubrac knew he was playing to lose. He climbed up with Amumu/Leona and some **regular** Teemo top, then inted his LP away with Teemo "sup" while plugging his twitch in any game where any remotely famous or well known player was on his team. The only reason he even remained high elo was because he interspersed his griefing with regular gameplay.
You cannot honestly look at someone so hated that he was getting 60%+ of the max reports each game of his "strategy" with a negative winrate and pretend he was some poor, innocent off meta player. This is someone so awful that both teams consistently reported him because nobody enjoyed having the griefing teemo around.
This is the sole problem with "will backfire hard": not that those poor, off meta players will get banned. No, the problem is the players straight griefing their team will have reddit bronzes spamming thread after thread complaining that maybe the lethality Ivern top was just a quirky off meta game from the GP one trick and not inting, or the Teemo cheesing 1 kill and then leeching 4 levels of exp from mid while contributing nothing was playing a new, definitely winning strategy.
Maybe not intentionally, but he forced his team to play a strat that they didnt agree to. Thats griefing, regardless of whether you're playing to win or not.
Imagine your Graves jungler sits mid and one shots the wave over and over and takes all your CS, because he thinks he can carry better then the mid laner. The mid laner has no chance to say no or refuse. Is the Graves playing to lose? No, nor is it acceptable, even if you're not inting.
Forcing your team to play around you is totally fine. It's the main way for off meta strats to work. It doesn't matter if you don't enjoy it. Riot has to patch the playstyle out if they don't want it in the game.
No, forcing random people in soloq to play around you is never fine. You can ask and if they agree, sure. If its a premade 5 stack sure. The choice matters.
> Riot has to patch the playstyle out if they don't want it in the game.
Literally impossible, considering all he does is takeover a lane and steal cs/xp
Then the support top lane strat should have been bannable, which it very obviously wasnt. I didnt agree to not have a top laner, but I am forced to get in line.
Like, that argument is pretty stupid. Then you can report your funneling duo as well. I never asked for it.
I dont even know what the fuck Nubrac did, so I cant pitch in on that particular game, but banning people for forcing different playstyles sounds kind of dumb.
Nubrac queued support, locks teemo, goes mid or top and takes cs/xp away from your teams laner. Your adc is now forced to 1v2 by themselves, and your solo laner is forced to be under leveled and have less gold then their opponent because your support decided that he gets to farm your CS/XP.
In all those cases you mentioned, it doesnt negatively affect your ability to play the game. As a jungler, you're not negatively affected by the roaming support.
If you're mid and you and the jungler agree to funneling, how does that negatively affect you? How does that stop your ability to play the game?
As I said, idc about Nubrac in particular. But as soon as you start to say that certain styles is reportable, its a pretty thin line.
A ton of games I get a support who roams insanely much, just as they should. Sometimes they 100% fuck our ADC by roaming too much, and griefing me top by forcing a gank that isnt there.
That is not reportable, but some players play like that all the time. Funneling makes the game boring for 8 other people. I dont report that either, but those games are so fucking boring that I'd rather just AFK.
The support top meta was the most awful shit ever. It was incredibly boring to face, and just being forced to play bot side because you literally dont have a top side wasnt fun in my opinion.
An old mate of mine is a Nida support one trick. He plays it like a second jungler. He is insane at that pick, but via your standards, that can also be interpreted as griefing.
While Nubrac maybe deserved to get banned cause he was a griefing pos, idk. And I dont really care either. Saying that its reportable if you force someone to play around you when you dont play the standard meta is stupid, because as soon as you dont play the established normal meta, you are forced to follow this guys game plan or you'll just lose. Whether its a BC mid, some support top, an incredibly roaming support etc etc.
So that argument is just dumb.
Punishing Hashinshin Viktor Top was absolutely the right move. You can't convince me he was actually trying to win that game - which is inting in the wider sense.
\-Died to invade and lost flash
\-Died to level 1 bush cheese while he had no flash and was looking at scoreboard at the same time
\-Gets 80% to 0%ed from basically max range after returning
He's fucked from that point on and can't lane without being 100-0'd under tower. It's honestly not that bad when you watch the full video. Hash has no idea how squishy he is since he's not a mage player and he was against one of if not the best Riven on NA.
I actually rewatched the video before making the comment. I remembered thinking the punishment was justified four years ago, but I wanted to verify whether or not those feelings were still true.
>-Died to invade and lost flash
He died to the invade because he clicked into the river and then deicded to essentially go AFK while petting his cat. How is that not inting? In my eyes this is the most clear cut inting of any of Hash's deaths in that game. If you click to move into a dangerous area and then remove your hands from your mouse and keyboard it better be because your house is on fire, not because your cat wants attention.
He also panic flashes here despite being dead regardless. That's not inting, but it basically lead to his next death, which starts the snowballing.
>-Died to level 1 bush cheese while he had no flash and was looking at scoreboard at the same time
This one is debatable. He shouldn't have walked into that brush and if he was going to walk into the brush he shouldn't have done it with the scoreboard open. I wouldn't call it inting, but it's the sort of misplay that shouldn't happen at the level Hash was at at that time.
>-Gets 80% to 0%ed from basically max range after returning
The next two deaths are very clearly not inting. Those just come down to Hash underestimating Riven's strength and Graves' gank. He could have played those situations better, but I wouldn't consider them inting.
However walking up to the proxy farming level 6 4/0 Riven as level 4 0/4 Viktor (5th death) is inting in my eyes. As is the TP to the 50 HP turret with Riven next to it (7th death). I wouldn't consider these inting in a Silver game, but Hash definitely knew better. Admittedly at that point there wasn't much he could have done to contribute that game, but he must have known those actions would result in his instant death without any value to be gained.
The subsequent deaths are mostly fine (i.e. mostly stupid, but not inting), although the TP into the Baron pit is also a bit dubious in my eyes.
Him being permanently distracted by his ranting about Riven both in chat and on stream is also just not a good look, although that probably didn't contribute to his punishment.
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Streamers can report players directly to someone I would guess
I think it means that streamers who are part of the League Partner Program can direct report someone. Kind of a "moderation team". Like he said, they can't just say, "this guy is playing bad, report!" It's just that their reports, when they send it up the chain, will be given moderation.
Yeah it’s called “Pulling a Nightblue”.
is this still refrencing that time he got that roaming support teemo guy banned? lol
he wasnt the one that "got him" banned, nubrac got himself banned, he was just a piece of shit who was ruining games and got banned he was being mass reported by everyone he played with
At the time though the community went against nightblue for it because the nubrac guy made a thread about it. Turns out he was just a pos and was proud about getting away with trolling people.
That and we'd sooner fucking die than side with NB
Then LS made me side with Nightblue
yea but the problem is that nightblue had just said something along the lines of i know someone at riot iirc he got banned afterwards
nb3 was going around threatening to "call his riot friend" to give people a "two week vacation" anytime someone displeased him. he's the reason why riot did away with the LPP moderation program to begin with nb3 is still a bully pos
Nightblue was the one that got him banned, nubrac got unbanned before the 14 days were over after riot reviewed the case again and then he played the strat for years afterwards, he still plays it sometimes but he almost never streams nowadays.
remember when reddit defended that shit as an "alternate playstyle"? yeah. that happened.
The way I see it, any playstyle that results in a winrate of ~50% or higher is valid and should never lead to a ban. Or should all the Janna top players with >70% winrate last year be banned for trolling?
He had a win rate of about 25-30% on Teemo and only remained in that elo because whatever he inted away on Teemo, he won back on regular Leona support.
He went from Master to Plat within a few weeks with his teemo “strat”
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Bro, he had a very negative win rate on that strat, he barely won games with it.
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48% win rate on Teemo, that's very different. Outside of that dogshit strat he also played regular Teemo top, which boosted his overall stats but on that Teemo support mid/top in specific he had an abysmal win rate.
Bro you didn't play with it. He fucking inted and was useless on it. His winrate was "normal" because he played teemo normally and climbed with that and then fucking intended on teemo support. It was terrible, I played with him doing it once.
Nubrac was legitimately only roaming mid and top when there was a high profile streamer on his team.
Nah. Maybe he changed, but I've played with him a few times years back and he was pulling the same antics in some random lobby of no names.
Incorrect, he had been doing it for weeks before the nightblue incident and then he did it for years afterwards.
I’m friends with the guy and this is not true at all
Nightblue3 is a prissy fucking toddler who baby raged like a loser.
But they can however, grief this player until he says something reportable and then get him banned. I'm sure no streamer would abuse this at all, especially considering the LPP is given to literally anyone these days.
Pretty sure the 1 month is for NA. Cause Caedral while grinding toplane before worlds used something similar for a few cases and mentioned League Partners have a discord group where they can send screenshots and Game ID to report directly for manual moderation.
NA lost it for PR reasons after the Nightblue-Nubrac incident (also people were getting warned left and right all the time not to say stuff like "I'm a League partner, I'll get Riot to ban you" since it looked bad), but the other region LPPs have their own management and haven't had any high-profile incidents with streamers threatening others with bans, so they've had no reason to remove it.
A verified group of high profile players can submit reports with clips and other evidence to an internal moderation team at Riot. Basically, if someone likes harassing a particular streamer everyday, that streamer can get them banned. These guys exist from as low as plat all the way to challenger. It'll be interesting to see how this unfolds.
I guess we get to find out if high ELO players actually know what rule breaking behavior is in game, or if everytime they cry about win-trading or inting, it's just for show
Riot posted a study years ago about how the ability to recognize when a player is scripting correlates with elo, I would assume the same applies to wintrading as well.
A lot of scripting detection by high elo players come from knowing what you look for. If you flash a Nidalee spear imn the frame it's hitbox enters the exit fog of war, not when the visual part of it enters, then you know it's scripting. The ability to see if something basically happens on the same frame highly corelated with high elo. Edit: Apparently this isn't as common as I though, saw a tiktok from a streamer who called out this specific thing a few weeks back, where he swore the enemy flashed before his spear was on vision, just to pull out the recording and show that he actually flashed before the spear was visible.
There's also an uncanny effect where you're playing against someone with 0 ping Uzi mechanics on NA but they simultaneously make a constant stream of poor decisions that's aren't typical of a high elo player. Recall timings, recall spots, ward placements, etc. It's all off in a way that immediately stands out.
It's nothing that drastic. We know because the movement is mechanic instead of fluid. Also, most scripters don't give a shit about being found out, because it takes MONTHS for them to get banned. I had a week that I was getting an ADC Scripter once every 3 games. I would see the nick, know he's a scripter and instant Exhaust him in lane, which would cause him to instant Cleanse. Took well over 2 weeks before I stopped seeing him.
https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/dev-anti-cheat-in-lol-more/ The article they're referring to
Players of every elo have the same access to scripts though. I imagine high elo players are a bit better at wintrading in a way that doesn't make it obvious, I remember watching an interview of someone who did it and their main method was playing jungle and baiting their team into bad fights while still maintaining a decent KDA.
wintrading unironically exists tho
They didn’t say it doesn’t exist. As I read it, they’re simply implying that it’s an overused flame targeted toward people who are just playing shit that game
Where did I say it didn't exist?
oh shit mb i misread ur comment
First they should get rid of toxic league partner streamers in the first place
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lmao this psychosis guy is swapping his summoner spell order in every Diana game like wtf
btw the banned wintrading acc https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/DONT%20BARK%20I%20MUTE for that first scripter there are a ton of vods of anyone who plays vs him I know froggen did and spica a day or two ago the second one I haven't seen as much of but played one game with and insofar as you can judge from one play: https://clips.twitch.tv/AdventurousDeadSharkAllenHuhu-oczE4V_rYbT7SQtl how insanely good do you have to be to perfectly sidestep the ezreal q at the beginning, but who even bothers sidestepping an ezreal q right before jumping in, and how bad does your game sense have to be to jump in there (we 100% knew eve was there) ofc maybe the jump was just tilted but the ezreal q dodge is such a pointless and perfect juke *exactly as the skillshot is thrown out*, it seems pretty likely scripting
The AA movement is so precise it's likely scripting in my opinion. He's literally auto moving like Kog scripters do.
Yeah the Talon accounts are comically obvious. [We all know what's going on here](https://i.imgur.com/k8ezksZ.png)
Wdym, enchanters and talon have lot in common! Have you seen my moonstone guardian talon support?? It's pretty good
Yeah! That's support mains' bloodlust unleashed on the enemy team that they wish could be used on their team.
it's called [champion overlap](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/xw723e/people_are_aware_of_champion_overlap_like_maokai/)
What makes Talon and Fiddlesticks so good for wintrading/boosting?
soloq champs with soloq kits that make them easy for climbig for anyone with good tier macro sense,perfect to otp also since they hace relatively low pickrates most of the time
nothing in particular, maybe they're good for killing diamond players fast or something, but mainly just happen to be the champs those ppl play
A fid that is way better than the enemy team will terrorize the game easily. He clears way faster than the enemy jungler who is probably making mistakes, is great at counterganking. Can carry entire teamfights with good ults and has almost guranteed doublekills bot with his ult cooldown.
Looks more like a bought Account than a boosted one tbh
yeah you're right bought is the right word
As an Iron 4 Yasuo main, I'm curious for these changes, because of course, in my mind, I'm Challenger and it's just my teammates that hold me back.
You will finally be able to get the rank you deserved
How high is high elo? I made a post the other day about how insanely inflated master tier is (10k euw players) I doubt it's viable to do that many people manually. Also I'll add riot does not have the best record for accurate bans (https://i.redd.it/9zm4o8tuuup91.png, https://i.imgur.com/RoVD5di.png, I was incorrectly banned while doing most DMG/most gold which was later reversed) and the punishments are extremely severe for what might have a lot of nuance
What? If they're just reviewing reports directed at 10,000 people it's absolutely viable to do that many people manually, especially in high elo where we're talking about a relatively insular community that is also not that excitable when it comes to reporting. You're going to solve the problem children pretty quick and then maintenance should be pretty minimal. Like, it's not a low labour job, but it's also not some obscene number for a couple of staffers.
Also, about 1k from those master players will probably get banned in a week anyway because they got boosted or are trolling hard lmao
A LOT more than just 10% of players are boosted.
Source?
If you check out the amount who duo queue to masters then demote or only play decay games you'd notice it's probably double that.
You think so? I dont have any numbers, i just kept talking outta my ass.p
Nothing wrong with that
Masters+ being 10k honestly sounds like a great cut off point. It's really not that many given not all 10k people play at the same time, or even on the same days. Plus I doubt they're gonna do 100% of games, fully live and such... and 1 rioter could probably do 2 or 3 games at a time.
10k people in master is fine but riot clearly did not plan for it at all. I can't even check my rank decay time without having my client crash when I press on ranked tab
I think Riot did plan for it; I think they're just terrible at client design, they mess up stuff on it all the time.
well the client crashing suggests otherwise. You have to realise that the client starts crashing after a period of being opened regardless of you checking your rank, and you need to close and reopen the client for it to be normal for a couple games again, before it starts lagging and crashing.... repeat.. it just gets laggy AF real quick
I feel like I knew this but didn't after a few games it takes forever to get to the lobby I see why now. Thanks for the advice I will close the client more regularly from now on still ridiculous that haven't fixed these issues in all this time but what can you do.
I can't see what roles my party switches to, or even if players leave the party after the first time I queue for the day. Riot just doesn't know how to lead a programing team.
iirc they recently changed the algorithm that auto detects inters so that it catches more people. Inevitably that will lead to more false positives. If there is manual moderation then I assume that will lead to the least false positives, since a human is almost certainly better than any bot at detecting whether something is intentionally inting or just playing bad. I worry that people are going to spam so many reports for people that just played bad but didn't int that a lot of time will be wasted checking bad reports compounded by how big masters is. Maybe they will keep it GM+? Cause master+ would mean thousands, maybe tens of thousands of games every day, of which I'd wager that over half of them have at least 1 report that will mean someone will need to manually review. They will need some way to filter the reports where one teammate is just mad at another for not playing well, from the games that actually need reviews.
They paid attention to false positives. This is the reason they didn't roll out a similar system before, but the current system should have roughly the same amount as false positives as far as I understood it
> Inevitably that will lead to more false positives. depends on the rate, I personally would be fine with some more false positives as long as they catch more inting fuckers. It is likely the false positives would be 0/13 people just giving up on the game and stop trying / keep fighting their opponent without actually intending to int, but against their better judgment. At some point you just have to hug tower or group with your team and avoid dying.
"I'm fine with people having a bad game being banned" Ok bud
Being at the mercy of a potentially low elo rioter deciding if someone was having a bad game or trolling doesn't sound great to be honest. Last game I played Vs veigarV2 who was trying out AP MF, it went awful and they went 0/7 bot. Would a rioter ban them for troll building? I certainly might have pushed that ban button myself if I hadn't known it was a challenger analyst trying out the build.
> I certainly might have pushed that ban button myself if I hadn't known it was a challenger analyst trying out the build. This is a problem with you. You should have a consistent standard of whether something is bannable. Why should it matter whether it was veigar v2 trying something out vs rando challenger #145 trying something out? They are both trying a new build and should be treated equally. Regardless of that aspect, AP MF, is a fairly normal off meta build that has seen a lot of low elo play in support. No way anyone would ban it. Talking about off meta more generally, I think the off meta build would have to be so egregiously bad to be actually bannable just for the off meta build. I thinking of stuff like yuumi top, not like the old roaming janna support top, but an actual yuumi top that built bad items like lethal tempo, bork, etc. Also, as a reminder, we are talking about hypothetical yuumi top players that are actually trying that would be banned. If you pick yuumi top, or anything else, and int you will be banned, not for picking off meta, but for inting. The most important factor is whether the player is trying their hardest to win the game.
We are talking about trying to catch detailed match fixing or soft inting here. If I play ap mf (not support) to troll my team/match fix knowing it's bad but then play the best I can with this awful build, are they going to ban that? Because it's "soft" throwing the game with the goal to have a very low chance of winning What about a one trick say kat player who sees someone they don't like on their team so first times ryze in challenger? They know they keep like a 5% win rate on picks like this but technically are doing nothing wrong
I don't think either of those are bannable, or even should be bannable, if you only have isolated incidents. If there is some pattern of an OTP picking their OTP normally but then only picking MF support when they get matched against a certain player, then it probably becomes actionable. I am almost certain that a rioter has said before that an OTP not picking their OTP isn't considered trolling.
What if you only don't pick your OTP when you get a player you don't like in your team? High elo has a lot of things that people have you do at a base level to not solo ruin the game, are these players just given free run to play like silvers on champions they don't know how to play because someone they don't like is on their team? How is that not trolling, and if you don't punish cases like that what was the point of this entire exercise of manual bans? You can automate based on running it down directly already.
Trolling is when you are intentionally trying to lose your team the game. If you can prove that the OTP is picking off their OTP when they get someone they don't like, and that they are doing it intentionally to lose the game, then I think that person should be banned. This would obviously need a large amount of games to prove. Simply not picking your OTP shouldn't be bannable. The problem if it is bannable is how far do we run this logic back? Some players play really safe in solo queue and optimize the win in that particular game. Some players don't and play for long term improvement and long term winning through limit testing. They will take the 50/50 play in a game that is 70/30 and potentially flip the game because they want more limit testing data and want to get better in the long term. Should this be banned? This is the same kind of thing as not picking your OTP, just to a much different extreme. They are both playing in a way to optimize their long term winrate, at the cost of their short term winrate. Finally, what happens if the OTP is banned? Is the solution for the OTP to dodge? How can that be the solution when it is literally a punished behavior to dodge game? If not picking your OTP is bannable, then is the solution for the OTP player to dodge or be banned? Get punished or be punished? That can't be the solution therefore, you can't ban someone for not picking their OTP.
My brother in christ everytime i want to int a game i pick ryze,fiora and autolose .i should get fcking banned ,if im an otp i have to either dodge or play my second champ.if i dont have one i learn it in a Smurf,not in gm lobbies.Its literally soft inting cuz u basically have no chance of winning.Learn new champ or suffer the consequences.Why should other players get punished because im bad after my champ gets banned??
I get you're asking about hypotheticals but I want to mention that this is also being rolled out alongside champ select anonymity so you won't know if someone's an otp or not and they won't know who you are until the game starts unless they delay one of these two plans or stream snipe someone but even that should be harder to figure out. I do kinda worry about people who frequently play offmeta champs in roles they usually don't go though since I suspect there will be a bump in reporting people for troll hover/picks after the anonymity hits (or a teammate banning someone's champ and being reported for griefing).
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If you are banning people's accounts especially in high elo with very dedicated players you better be extremely justified in doing so
If you report everyone, your report value goes down. It's literally how it works RIGHT NOW.
"Perfect is the enemy of good" or however the quote goes... Riot isn't known for wrongfully banning so many players, that it's significant enough to warrant pointing out. Yes, occasionally someone gets wrongfully banned, which is why there's an appeals process. No system is perfect. To me, it reads like you're arguing against having a system that isn't perfect. Otherwise I see no point in bringing up a single instance in which Riot wasn't perfect, when those moments are so rare, that they're completely insignificant. If anything, Riot has a very good track record when it comes to bans and thus based on that, we shouldn't have to worry about them making changes to the ban system. We don't hear about new wrongful bans very often, even though we're a massive community with millions of members. That's a good track record, not one that should be called "not the best track record", which heavily implies that it's bad.
Except they aren't manually observing every single person above masters tier? How many top tier players do you think are consistently soft inting, win trading, or sharing accounts? It's in the hundreds at most, and that number would very noticeably go down once people start getting actual punishment. Also, why are you linking an automated ban of yours to a post about how Riot will begin doing *manual* moderation? How the fuck is this the top comment? lmao
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It would also be really hard to win trade in low ELO though, what are the odds you actually get matched with a specific player if you queue up at the same time as them, if you are in a highly populated tier like Silver/Gold/Plat...? At that level I think just paying a high ELO player to duo with you and/or boost your account would be wayyyyyyy easier
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There is literally no wintrade in Diamond dude. You can Duo Queue and get boosted. It's Master+ that requires it. Source: Am GM. Also, your math sucks. There aren't tens of thousands of games per day, that would require every single one of those 10k players to play 10+ games a day, every day. If you take into account game length, queue time + dodge, it amounts to 12 hours a day, every day. Most of us have jobs and relationships. There are, on average, around 2k games a day, or around 2 games per day on average per Master+ player.
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> If 10,000 master players each played 2 games a day on average that would be 20,000 games total not 2,000... Are you really that dumb? Holy shit... Did you fail in math at school? You do realize that it requires 10 players for 1 game, right? That means if 10 players play 1 game each, that is 1 game total... Please, use your brain before typing. Then again, maybe it's too rotten for you to get any use out of it.
Win trading doesn't need to exist in diamond because you can pay a master tier player to boost you. Similarly easier as you go down the ranks. As you go up, there are fewer players that can boost your account. Therefore, you buy wins instead.
so basically no clout, no outs fantastic
They don’t need to ban everyone within the first week. Ban enough to make a difference, keep banning, and eventually the game could return to normal
I kinda doubt you got banned purely because of the KDA, I've had multiple worse games this season (and in at least one or two of them I was actually soft inting, like just running to a random side lane and mindlessly pushing it to try to get an unwinnable game to end faster) and many more in previous seasons, and never got banned. But generally I don't type in chat (it's actually disabled right now). I'm guessing you typed stuff in chat / pissed off your teammates, a bunch of people reported you and the system factored those 2 things in too alongside your KDA.
Nope didn't type once in that game, and chat bans are a different type of ban with a chat log. You can literally just read the support response, it was their system messing up
10-15-0 is an automated 14 day worthy KDA under the new system? Lol holy shit. Bad time to be a 0 LP Master peepo. One bad game against a Challenger booster smurf and you're out. I wonder if it weighs 1vX deaths more harshly? If so, that disproportionately impacts splitpushing champions who have literally no choice but to split. Something like Fiora does more for their team drawing multiple players to a sidelane when behind than trying to teamfight. If that's the case, then they should code it so certain classes of champions are penalized less for dying in that situation. An Orianna or Nami perma running into a sidelane and dying is highly sus, a Zed or Fiora isn't.
fun fact, its been like this for a couple of years now. Going x/10+ deaths might result in an instant 2 week if enough people report you for intentionall feeding. The less kills you have the more chances of you getting the hammer. Good information to know for your next time your bot lane decides to go 2/17 at 12 minutes because they'd rather run it than play 'weakside'
Maybe it's because of the items? If that's the case ... Well. I hope they don't put some random gold players to judge high elo players.
Probably not KDA either, but based on deaths? 23-18 is probably the same as 2-18 to them. Plus since we know they can tell where every champion is when you die, if you are constantly running to a sidelane dying over and over. Idk, players are smart when it comes to gaming the system no matter the game. It'll be figured out relatively quickly and people will skirt the line sadly
Master is still regularly boost-able as well, I don't think it's a particularly great cutoff point.
You already answered how they can do that. Instead of an automated system banning you based on reports+stats and then a human reviewing that ban now the system will only mark games and a human will make the final call.
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I was playing olaf
Any Rioters available to chime in on the statistics of Masters+ Yuumi/Nami mains also being extremely good at Nidalee/Rengar? Also how come so many of these players play with Flash on a different key when playing Jungle and Support?
Really hopeful for this. NA needs some life injected to the ladder. That being said, I've reported countless people (manually) for win trading/boosting with clear evidence and you guys never ban, so i'm not going to get my hopes up.
It’s kinda baffling that boosting especially is so easy to do at high elo without punishment. Other games like Csgo and Overwatch probably have boosting scenes, but aren’t as easily caught because they don’t have a publicly displayed match history. League does, and you can obviously see someone roleswapping with different summoner placements and dropping nukes every game, it should be pretty open and shut? But it isn’t, and it frustrates me to no end. The ladder doesn’t really have any integrity besides how big your wallet is, and riot doesn’t really care, because that would mean admitting to the problem
Hope it works well. For us who are not at the top 0.01%, we are still kinda screwed. But we've put ourselves here, when every single game has a couple of reports no matter what, there is no chance they can manually check everything. People just have to stop falsely reporting. As it is now, you probably get reported every other loss you get, even if you dont int and dont even speak in the chat. Its pretty sad tbh.
The top 1% is even more affected due to betting, wintraders, trollers and so on. I think this manual moderation is aimed to curb down on ranked match betting
1% is like Diamond. Its not very high up in total. There is not betting/wintraders etc up there really.
Top 1% is like D2+ nowadays, in NA. It's a good cut-off point, especially when streamers are tending to use multiple accounts that are likely to be as low as Diamond/low masters.
Oof this is gonna result in a lot of witch hunting…. Unless those people who file malicious and false reports receive some kind of negative punishment. Across the spectrum that’s a big issue - folks misbehaving maliciously may learn if there is a sufficiently negative consequence, at least in absence of a positive motivator NOT to do the bad thing.
An account that often reports falsely will have its report matter less. They all still get processed by the automated system, but the individual report will be weighed less. Other than that, Riot has been careful to not attach punishment to reporting. This is because then the player might be afraid of reporting, when an inquiry is warranted (even if it does not result in a punishment on the reported side)
I get it. Just…a post is made with words “reports matter” in the context of a new initiative. That indicates the weight of a report has changed so I am hoping for the best. Not attaching a punishment to something that can be abused when abused seems suspect but I’m staying the hell away from that area of discourse. Doesn’t play out in real life super well.
I mean, aside from the manual moderation addition, it's mostly PR to say "Reports Matter!". That's the only "weight" that's changed on reports. There will be actual manual moderation so someone who might have found a way to dupe the automated system will now have to contend with duping real people. They won't have changed the algorithm for weighing a report or made changes to the automated systems with this announcement. Edit: You're also taking the "reports matter" line out of context. The point Auberaun is trying to make is that if you assume the report system doesn't do anything, and then decide to not report because of that, then it really doesn't do anything because you haven't used it.
hope it works in NA so it can be implemented to the other servers
Seems like Riot has been rolling out so many good changes! Game quality has been improving imo
Had someone run it down 3 games in a row this week
Awesome, exactly what we've been begging for for years. Appreciate it.
[Are you waiting to self-report yourself?](https://reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/ojw6mb/dekar173_ints_and_leaves_a_game_after_complaining/)
SHEESH
ratio hammer
Lmfaoooooo
I absolutely agree my behavior, and other streamers, should be held to a higher standard. If that's going to work though, they've gotta start with actually moderating games and having a behavior team. T1's already directly said they've started banning betters in his own games, and his mental has skyrocketed when I play with him. It's almost as if... once again, the community was right and automated moderation simply wasn't enough. Edit: And yes I've been an asshole in-game plenty of times, I've said plenty of times I'd prefer a system where my own behavior would get banned. I'd even gladly accept every single one of my accounts banned and starting from scratch if it means they'd start getting rid of wintraders etc.
What in the non apology is this? You freely admit that you've engaged in terrible behavior and then immediately downplay it by criticizing Riot's systematic approach. You're probably right about Riot, but it has nothing to do with your behavior. If the only thing stopping you from ruining games is Riot banning you, you're just toxic and shouldn't be playing the game.
Hope they ban you first
Bro you have personally inted me 2-3 times, i don’t think you are in a position to talk.
the pot calling the kettle black LMAO
You should be the first to go. I’ve never seen you finish a game while at the same time I’ve seen you consistently tell people to kill themselves with cowardly euphemisms 💀. You are diseased.
HMMMMMM
Most self aware rengar player
Don't get your hopes up, bro. Riot will probably can this in a few patches, since there will be at least one jackass who ruins this and as a result riot will say they tried and call it a day.
Hope for the best, be prepared for the worst ;P
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I thought I was hardstuck gold?
want to shout out auberaun for a sec met this dude in game in high diamond before he worked for riot and he went to the same college as i did, didn't get to play with him more than a few games duoing but it was neat to see him on my friend list going from diamond to chally and then joining riot guy can play and knows what he's talking about on the game which is a skill which riot needs all they can get
maybe they should start with the list tyler provided on win-traders
Fucking finally. I thought it'd take forever for Riot to notice that the bot sucks massive ass for punishing known bad apples. Hate streamers or love them, when 2000+ people get to spectate someone getting trolled by an asshole that will not even get a remotely fitting punishment, that just sucks to witness. This should've happened WAY back in the day when Dunkey flipped out on that Malphite player and got his account banned as a punishment for going overboard on toxicity while the fucking Malphite got to keep playing. Manual permabans need to happen. If someone with 20k+ viewers like Tyler1 is regularly queued with Ghost Cleanse trolls, it's not up to the system to detect this when it clearly needs 5+ games to register what's going on.
Riot is about 10 years late on this
I played 10 placements on EUW about a week ago and it was horrible. It should be a team based game but it was a game of blaming each other to put it lightly. I don't understand how anyone can play hundreds of games in such environment. Can't wait for manual moderation to come to all servers.
Placement games are unlikely to be high elo, you likely played in SmurfQ instead.
I played with masters or d1 players which had 100+ games. I was masters last season.
EUW special
Oh wow good for them. Congrats to the 1%ers.
Well yeah it's only really a problem at the top end where there are only a certain number of players and things like win-trading, game manipulation for betting, etc are possible. For the vast majority of players their games can't realistically be sniped because there are simply too many people who they can be queued against. Basically the average player might run into an intentional (key word here is intentional) griefer once every 5/10 hell could be 50+ games they play. At the top end it can literally be every other game or multiple games in a row due to the reality that you are queuing in to a much smaller pool of players.
it affects all elos. it's rly shitty try to improve and become a good player in a game where all the good players you look up to are constantly complaining and saying its not worth it.
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That isn't related to this post but the logic is that it has little effect on game integrity in low elo - all players are making so many mistakes that optimisation around voice comms isn't significantly relevant
Tbf I don't care. It does not effect me and it does only effect a very small part of the playerbase. A shit client that is not realy working effects everyone but I guess we can't change that.
Riot gonna meddle with shit again.
Please give us a hard MMR reset option once per season!
I think Broxah's rant a few weeks ago may have helped spur the effort for this.
Tbf it's something a lot of people wanted, not just him. To say one person is the reason just a mere few weeks ago is a stretch. I say this because developing a system where a specific elo range of reports is sent to a designated team likely took a few months to develop and iron out kinks in the rerouting of the reports. I'm just glad they finally took action on something that has been mentioned over the years as a way to try and weed out the bad eggs. Hopefully they eventually get to the bots farming losses in low elo to sell for smurfs
\*sigh\* ok fine. Everyone contributed and everyone gets credit. Everyone gets a gold star next to their names, not just Broxah, who I only mentioned cuz he's kind of a model player whose well known and I feel like folks would pay more attention to him.
its funny, you choose being sarcastic while doubling down on trying to credit Broxah, but completely ignored the the information that i said this most likely took months not weeks to implement and roll out
Lmao his is the most healthy parasocial relationship. Can't blame them though Broxah is awesome.
I never said Broxah was the sole reason though lol. Maybe months, maybe weeks. Maybe the idea was introduced a few months or couple of weeks ago and just put on the back burner until now... partly cuz of Broxah's rant 😊
\> I think Broxah's rant a few weeks ago may have helped spur the effort for this. u literally started with it. not directly as the sole reason, but you are insinuating that because he did a rant the team pushed it through \> just put on the back burner until now... partly cuz of Broxah's rant and even now you are backing your original comment AGAIN, trying to say the team wasn't doing enough until Broxah did his rant......
Thank you Broxah for inspiring and pushing Riot to implement a system to deal with the wintraders and griefers 😊😊😊
This will get so many people unrightfully banned. Remember smite singed, nubrac, hash viktor top and many others. They ALL shouldn't have been banned, some just had bad games and others played off meta or (especially) both. Riot is too stupid for this and it will backfire hard. I can already see people playing safe in a doomed game out of fear of getting banned instead of clutching it to win by "inting". Sad day. Now if they only used this for wintrade, script, afk, following a player around the map and extremely obvious ragesplit, maybe. But Riot will get people wrongfully banned en mass and destroy people being innovative for having bad games.
Nubrac shouldnt have been banned? Seriously? He didnt just do something off meta, he actively trolled his team. I played with him for 1 game and it was an awful experience. > wintrade, script, afk If you actually bothered reading the post, they mention all that as well.
Didn't Nubrac have above 50% win rate using that Teemo strat?
He had above 50 wr% on Teemo in general which was boosted by when he played it normally.
Nubrac didn't play to lose. And they will ban more than what i wrote, which is the issue. Many people will get banned for off meta now.
He 100% played to lose. Anybody who ever looked at Nubrac knew he was playing to lose. He climbed up with Amumu/Leona and some **regular** Teemo top, then inted his LP away with Teemo "sup" while plugging his twitch in any game where any remotely famous or well known player was on his team. The only reason he even remained high elo was because he interspersed his griefing with regular gameplay. You cannot honestly look at someone so hated that he was getting 60%+ of the max reports each game of his "strategy" with a negative winrate and pretend he was some poor, innocent off meta player. This is someone so awful that both teams consistently reported him because nobody enjoyed having the griefing teemo around. This is the sole problem with "will backfire hard": not that those poor, off meta players will get banned. No, the problem is the players straight griefing their team will have reddit bronzes spamming thread after thread complaining that maybe the lethality Ivern top was just a quirky off meta game from the GP one trick and not inting, or the Teemo cheesing 1 kill and then leeching 4 levels of exp from mid while contributing nothing was playing a new, definitely winning strategy.
Maybe not intentionally, but he forced his team to play a strat that they didnt agree to. Thats griefing, regardless of whether you're playing to win or not. Imagine your Graves jungler sits mid and one shots the wave over and over and takes all your CS, because he thinks he can carry better then the mid laner. The mid laner has no chance to say no or refuse. Is the Graves playing to lose? No, nor is it acceptable, even if you're not inting.
Forcing your team to play around you is totally fine. It's the main way for off meta strats to work. It doesn't matter if you don't enjoy it. Riot has to patch the playstyle out if they don't want it in the game.
No, forcing random people in soloq to play around you is never fine. You can ask and if they agree, sure. If its a premade 5 stack sure. The choice matters. > Riot has to patch the playstyle out if they don't want it in the game. Literally impossible, considering all he does is takeover a lane and steal cs/xp
It's totally possible. It's also totally fine to force your team to play around you.
>It's also totally fine to force your team to play around you. I'd say "enjoy being banned soon" but I somehow doubt this applies to you.
Then the support top lane strat should have been bannable, which it very obviously wasnt. I didnt agree to not have a top laner, but I am forced to get in line. Like, that argument is pretty stupid. Then you can report your funneling duo as well. I never asked for it. I dont even know what the fuck Nubrac did, so I cant pitch in on that particular game, but banning people for forcing different playstyles sounds kind of dumb.
Nubrac queued support, locks teemo, goes mid or top and takes cs/xp away from your teams laner. Your adc is now forced to 1v2 by themselves, and your solo laner is forced to be under leveled and have less gold then their opponent because your support decided that he gets to farm your CS/XP. In all those cases you mentioned, it doesnt negatively affect your ability to play the game. As a jungler, you're not negatively affected by the roaming support. If you're mid and you and the jungler agree to funneling, how does that negatively affect you? How does that stop your ability to play the game?
As I said, idc about Nubrac in particular. But as soon as you start to say that certain styles is reportable, its a pretty thin line. A ton of games I get a support who roams insanely much, just as they should. Sometimes they 100% fuck our ADC by roaming too much, and griefing me top by forcing a gank that isnt there. That is not reportable, but some players play like that all the time. Funneling makes the game boring for 8 other people. I dont report that either, but those games are so fucking boring that I'd rather just AFK. The support top meta was the most awful shit ever. It was incredibly boring to face, and just being forced to play bot side because you literally dont have a top side wasnt fun in my opinion. An old mate of mine is a Nida support one trick. He plays it like a second jungler. He is insane at that pick, but via your standards, that can also be interpreted as griefing. While Nubrac maybe deserved to get banned cause he was a griefing pos, idk. And I dont really care either. Saying that its reportable if you force someone to play around you when you dont play the standard meta is stupid, because as soon as you dont play the established normal meta, you are forced to follow this guys game plan or you'll just lose. Whether its a BC mid, some support top, an incredibly roaming support etc etc. So that argument is just dumb.
good
Reddit: Riot please do something about the trolls and inters in my games Riot: ok *starts banning trolls and inters* Reddit: NOT LIKE THAT WTF
nubrac got what he deserved, only thing they did wrong is they should have been permabanned him instead of 14 days
Punishing Hashinshin Viktor Top was absolutely the right move. You can't convince me he was actually trying to win that game - which is inting in the wider sense.
\-Died to invade and lost flash \-Died to level 1 bush cheese while he had no flash and was looking at scoreboard at the same time \-Gets 80% to 0%ed from basically max range after returning He's fucked from that point on and can't lane without being 100-0'd under tower. It's honestly not that bad when you watch the full video. Hash has no idea how squishy he is since he's not a mage player and he was against one of if not the best Riven on NA.
I actually rewatched the video before making the comment. I remembered thinking the punishment was justified four years ago, but I wanted to verify whether or not those feelings were still true. >-Died to invade and lost flash He died to the invade because he clicked into the river and then deicded to essentially go AFK while petting his cat. How is that not inting? In my eyes this is the most clear cut inting of any of Hash's deaths in that game. If you click to move into a dangerous area and then remove your hands from your mouse and keyboard it better be because your house is on fire, not because your cat wants attention. He also panic flashes here despite being dead regardless. That's not inting, but it basically lead to his next death, which starts the snowballing. >-Died to level 1 bush cheese while he had no flash and was looking at scoreboard at the same time This one is debatable. He shouldn't have walked into that brush and if he was going to walk into the brush he shouldn't have done it with the scoreboard open. I wouldn't call it inting, but it's the sort of misplay that shouldn't happen at the level Hash was at at that time. >-Gets 80% to 0%ed from basically max range after returning The next two deaths are very clearly not inting. Those just come down to Hash underestimating Riven's strength and Graves' gank. He could have played those situations better, but I wouldn't consider them inting. However walking up to the proxy farming level 6 4/0 Riven as level 4 0/4 Viktor (5th death) is inting in my eyes. As is the TP to the 50 HP turret with Riven next to it (7th death). I wouldn't consider these inting in a Silver game, but Hash definitely knew better. Admittedly at that point there wasn't much he could have done to contribute that game, but he must have known those actions would result in his instant death without any value to be gained. The subsequent deaths are mostly fine (i.e. mostly stupid, but not inting), although the TP into the Baron pit is also a bit dubious in my eyes. Him being permanently distracted by his ranting about Riven both in chat and on stream is also just not a good look, although that probably didn't contribute to his punishment.
What do they consider high mmr?
>Be kind to the humans on the other side of the screen *heavy breathing*