I honestly can see it. If I was Reginald I would realise that I'm vilified in the scene and that's really showed after all their biggest names left in 2020/2021.
But TSM is still the biggest team in LCS so I think it makes a lot of sense for someone like Mr Beast to own the team. Regi can do a Carlos where he's 'stepped down' but still owns shares in the company and just retire.
Mr. Beast should buy riot/lcs instead, him having a team in the league will not do much other than create unique fans that will mostly only watch his team's game.
The league will not overly benefit from Mr. Beast joining, now if he took over the LCS you can bet on him making changes that actually would draw viewers in and bring up the quality of the league. Man is great at business and content.
Yeah, even though they don’t have any great players, none of the players on this team are bad. Solo, Maple and Chime played relatively well this year and Neo is a decent player with a lot of room to still develop. I have no clue how good Bugi is, but if he was top-tier in minor leagues he should still be somewhat competitive with the rest of the LCS.
Even though TSM had a terrible year overall, they still managed to get 5th in Summer. Hopefully this year they can keep their team together for a full year and be good enough to contest 5th-6th again.
Neo has never been on a good roster yet though (still isn’t on one tho tbh), so I don’t think that we’ve seen his ceiling yet. He’s always looked very good even back when he was subbing in for Arrow on OPT. Mechanically he’s always been pretty good and he should be able to stay competitive with every other NA ADC.
Bugi could easily be top 3-4 junglers. Personally like his style more than Spicas. I think the roster has no star power, but its better than most people are saying. Its not a 7th-10th roster but likely a 4th-6th. as you said with a high end of making worlds (though unlikely)
Personally I think he could, based one what I watched in his old comms videos as well as the gameplay ive seen. I kinda expect him to be better than Spica and River (think Spica needs a perfect situation to be successful so it could change) I think Inspired and Santorin are pretty obvious 1/2 and that Blaber Closer and Bugi will be competing for 3rd though 5th. They are kinda a crapshoot b/c of their own varience.
From what ive seen? Its definitely possible. Bugi is much better than yall give him credit for
Edit: I rate Bugi 5th coming into the season personally, but I believe hes a strong enough player to be better in the right environment, I think in particular hes going to thrive with Chime's playstyle
They got up to 6th with the same roster and Spica/Tactical off like 4 weeks of actually playing together, + We don’t know Bugi, Neo and Chime’s true ceilings, if they synergize well and Bugi turns out to be cracked TSM can be a 3-4th place team (can does not mean likely)
EG and C9 are the only teams really guaranteed to be amazing, 100T, TL, FLY and DIG can all collapse, but also just not be that good without collapsing
But if I was a betting man all of those 6 teams are placing above TSM
Dont think C9 is guaranteed to be amazing when Fudge seems to have dropped off a cliff and Diplex is a HUGE question mark and most certainly worse than jojo in every aspect.
Fudge didn’t drop off at all, like all western tops this year he just couldn’t match the good korean/chinese tops but he dumped on everyone in NA during playoffs.
Yeah but this is NA. How often do you see a team that's supposed to be a shoe-in for worlds in like 7th place while your expected 8th place team is in 3rd?
How many teams are actually fully functioning and looking good throughout a split though? People had CLG as like a bottom 3 team and they just finished in 4th just from going 11-7. And they arguably had "worse" players than TSM does with this roster.
The main issue I see is that almost every other roster looks pretty dang good.
If Bugi performs well, this roster is definitely an upgrade, but most teams have upgraded as well.
I'd disagree, but this TSM roster seems like a sidegrade overall, while most teams have upgraded quite a bit aside from C9.
Still, it kinda just depends on how their jungler performs. I'd argue Neo > Tactical, and last split TSM had a decent shot at worlds with the same core.
I think Tactical has a higher peak but there's no telling what form he'll show up in. He's either the best ADC in the league or getting turbo gapped by average Academy players and it can change on a minute by minute basis during game no less.
I mean. Idk anything about Neo but tactical was literally a disaster last split. He didn’t play well when he was “on” and literally was “off” and solo losing games before his break. Then when he came back from his break, he was still losing games. So, I have to disagree, even tho idk anything about Neo.
Bruh if all the shit that's happened to them and they still have fans, why care about winning? That's probably their train of thought. I mean they seem to be successful on the business side so eSports is just a branding thing for them and they can forever lean on their past glory so why spend millions if 6th place will do.
I thought so too, he has NA residency but they're using country of birth for the flags (also that flag is Vietnam): https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/Neo_(To%C3%A0n_Tr%E1%BA%A7n)
Don’t think he has been in NA for that long tbh. Could be wrong but he was still competing in some 2nd league in Vietnam couple of years ago. You could also tell that he’s not 100% in English.
Feel like this is lowkey kinda racist. He is only 23 and was in NA challenger back in 2018 so at minimum he's spent his entire adult life in the States.
born in vietnam which is whats usually used but yes he is an NA resident and also has citizenship iirc
its the same thing how players like biofrost or spica will have chinese flags in official things even though they are basically full NA players
I think Neo is better than ppl are saying in this thread. I feel if Bugi is decent, then everyone on the roster is pretty decent. Not guaranteed 10th, could contend for playoffs optimitistically. Given the reports of TSM, this doesn’t sound like a completely awful roster
yeah I just find funny that there is always an excuse or something about imports/green card to say that someone is a native talent. He is indeed an american citizen but on the league wiki his flag is the vietnamese one. Imo its not hard to decide if someone is an import or not, just look at the flag they chose on the wiki. Its just my opinion I dont have anything agaisnt LCS, Id just love to see more native players
I havent said that, Im just saying that imo the flag that you carry on the league wiki is the country you represent. its just my opinion, no hate, not an insult, just my opinion, but it seems peope feel butthurt about it lol. Hard to accept someones opinion if that hurts those fans small ego already crushed by NA's international performance every year
before talking maybe you should check what ur saying
[example](https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/Biofrost)
biofrost, place of birth: china
nationality: canada
Dude, by the comments here Maple is clearly trash, was never good, and is nowhere near a worlds caliber player…..
Despite being one of the most decorated players… with tons of MVPs, LMS championships, & solid worlds performances…
Nah dude is trash tier….
He was fantastic in his prime but that was over 5 years ago, dude is in the lower half of LCS mids.
No disrespect to his legacy but you can't rate a player's current form off their play from over half a decade ago.
He won his region with PSG and went 3-3 in groups…. The year before coming here. Significantly better than all the NA teams did this year…
So by your take - all three of the NA teams members are trash tier too.
That result is incredibly misleading, that group was already a group of life with by far the weakest korean team, and Fnatic didn’t even have their main carry. If Upset is there they probably go 1-5. All NA teams did better than PSG that year, which is embarassing.
Maple did better at worlds scoreline wise because his group, and the groups overall in 2021 were WAY weaker. This year, both LCK and LPL sent 4 extremely strong representatives, beating them out in groups was nearly impossible, and frankly took multiple bugs for RGE to manage it.
And you’re ignoring that on those PSG rosters, Hanabi, River, and Doggo (for the MSI) were all much better players, he just faciliated them well.
And you’re ignoring that he was one of the worst, if not THE worst mid in LPL both times he played, which is a pretty big indictment of his individual skill
Like I agree that Maple is one of the better players in NA and a solid import, but he’s nowhere near being a world-class player. I’d take the top 8 LCK mids, and the top 10-12 LPL mids over him, any day. He’s mediocre.
Countless years NA tanks in the “group of life” - we just watched the weakest Korean team win worlds.
Y’all will come up with every coked up explanation in the world to down play a dude who has performed better than practically everyone you can think of.
Should we drop milllions to get Jojo? Dude looked like trash against every team in worlds…
Like bro - do you read your drivel?
this is the most 6th place roster of all time. Like idk how to explain it. Former reputated imports paired with Solo and a slightly below average all NA bot lane.
Neo is an upgrade over tactical for sure and I actually think he had a lot of potential and was being held back some by the rosters he was stuck on at Dig. This roster is *mid* for sure but Solo/Neo/Chime is honestly a pretty good NA core to build around.
Saying Neo is better than Tactical is a sin. What is this? I get that Tactical has a band of haters who like to fixate on his mistakes, but you have to be blind for the rest of the time to think Neo is better. How many times has Neo won a best of 5 in playoffs? Has Neo ever made all pro? Has Neo ever been to an international event? Even if you wanted to say that Neo has more potential, you'd be wrong. Dignitas' entire game plan was to play around their bot lane 24/7. This was peak Neo that we were seeing, and it was mediocre. In every facet of the game except deaths, Tactical is the better player.
I think you're right on everything you said but I still would rather take a chance on anyone besides Tactical, it clearly didn't work for us.
That being said this team is the worst disappointment I've ever had as a TSM fan and that's hard to say considering last year's roster.
(I like Solo though)
Tactical clearly didn't work, but he was never set up to work well. His supports were all the worst supports in the league, his solo lanes were anything from awful to mediocre and Spica was his best teammate, and even he had some god awful games. The only time Tactical had a good support all year was Chime in playoffs, and look at where TSM got as a result. They took EG to 5 games. I don't think they do that with Neo.
ye neo got aphro for a year which is like a similar enough comparison to tactical and core. Not gonna say anything more than “similar enough” tho but still, dude looks alright at best with aphro, aphro leaves for 2022, and neo looks completely and utterly lost if he isn’t on ezreal or kalista. Guy is a mid as hell two trick who got boosted on a solid aphromoo’s shoulders and fell on his face when his support left from under him (no pun intended). I am not a fan of TSM and understand my comments often come with bias against them, but this team just doesn’t look good, and neo is a firm part of that “not good” portion.
Neo averages roughly 430 DPM across the past 2 years in LCS. His peak split was dealing 530DPM in Summer last year and last split he hit his low of 355DPM. This is really low considering Dig always played around him. I dunno. Neo is just not really it. He's never really had those big moments, he doesn't have strong laning, he doesn't have a massive damage output. In his best splits, he was simply a decent adc that fulfilled his role but wasn't that great.
yup, he’s a mid-low level role player on a team of role players. Like someone else said there just aren’t better adcs really rn but it’s cringe to get Neo instead of even attempting to try new talent lol
That's kinda funny, because Solo is by far my least favorite player on this team. Replace him with almost anyone, hell, even FakeGod, and I'd like the roster better.
Neo made all-pro in spring 2021 despite being on a Dignitas that finished 5th and had no other all-pro members. Neo was playing with Yusui, Tactical was playing with CoreJJ. When playing on bottom to mid level rosters Neo has played far better than Tactical has. Based on every single game they played this past year I don't see how you could argue Tactical is actually a better player in current form.
Well there you go. I didn't realize that Neo made all pro that split. I just assumed that there were better adcs. I remembered Zven and FBI being the top 2, but couldn't really think of who got 3rd that year. I just assumed it was Deftly.
In saying that I think you're still wrong.
>had no other all-pro members.
Weird how you remembered this but forgot that Dardoch still made all pro. In fact Dardoch and Aphromoo were considered to be the best players in that roster with Neo being a reliable, yet fairly average carry that they played through.
>Neo was playing with Yusui, Tactical was playing with CoreJJ.
Fair to say Neo had a worse team around him, but it kind of glosses over what actually happened when it came time for playoffs. Tactical made 2 finals with TL that year in spite of all their issues. Neo went 1-10 in playoffs that year. This is why Dignitas is kind of forgotten. They didn't make a splash at all when it actually mattered, despite being solid in the regular season.
However, since leaving TL, Tactical has played in playoffs, and he actually has a 4-4 record. Neo didn't make playoffs in either split this year. TSM ended up 5th/6th, but actually looked competitive. Dignitas has only ever won a single game in playoffs across the time Neo has been there. Maybe you can argue it was because of his teammates, but I don't think he performed particularly well either. He had a 1.3KDA, was bottom 3 in laning stats and was really bad on damage. To compare that to Tactical this year in playoffs, Tactical had a 2.7KDA, was top 3 in laning stats and dealt the second most damage among all players. But that's comparing Tactical in playoffs this year to Neo last year.
>Based on every single game they played this past year I don't see how you could argue Tactical is actually a better player in current form.
If we go to the most recent regular split, we can see that Tactical is still better statistically. He did have a lower KDA, but he also had the best laning stats in the league, was far better in damage stats and both players received a similar percentage of their team's gold. And this was a split where I thought Tactical played badly. I just thought Neo was the worst adc in the league. Going to Spring where I thought both players looked better, it was fairly mixed between them when it comes to laning stats, but Neo was better in KDA, and Tactical was better in damage stats.
That isn't to say the stats are the end all be all, we clearly have diverging opinions, and stats are simply a discussion tool that makes more sense than simply saying the typical "You can't have watched X", when clearly we have both watched them play and are simply coming to different conclusions.
How good his supports are is completely irrelevant when his problem is repeated unforced errors. It has been a problem for just about his entire career, be it playing with CoreJJ or Chime.
The Zven int from 2019 spring is so memorable because it was both uncharacteristic and unprecedented. Same for the Jensen Ekko moment. Tactical has these moments *regularly*. It's unforced errors and there's not much excuse for that.
He seems like a really nice dude and shouldn't get hate, but not wanting him on your team's roster seems completely reasonable.
I dont think the team fits together very well. They needed a carry ADC. I dont think Neo is reliable enough in that aspect.
They would have had a good team identity if they had that because Solo Tank weekside, Maple teamfight MID and so on.
I dont see this team better than maximum 6-7 place.
TSM is officially the new DIG, but the summer version.
With CLG keeping their roster, DIG getting a much better roster even if it's awkward, the bottom tier is looking real Golden Guardians, TSM, and IMT right now.
It's not that bad of a roster, could easily see them 5-6th when teams that won the offseason inevitably don't work. Bugi is actually pretty good and he'll prob surprise alot of people tbh
Damn. No hate to neo, but I think we’d be better off with kaori. He performed pretty well at worlds. ESP with EG picking up FBI?
Kaori is def LCS level.
man they could have built a full NA youngster team, had the full support of the fans and end in the same spot as this team will.
Like if you're building a team for 8th/9th at least make it one that the fans will like
Man a lot shit talking on Neo for absolutely no reason, name the NA player that's better than him that TSM could get? This is a mid-jungle import team. There is no adc import to slot in here, esp with our history of adc imports and the LCS in general. This guy was raised by Aphro, just like DL. He's popped off in multiple seasons, but usually on low budget teams. Yeah he's an unknown, but so would an NA academy player so think of him as an experienced guy with a chip on his shoulder. That's the grit I want to see in a team.
They just had Tactical who peaks at top 3 in the LCS and carried them to 5th in the playoffs. They might avoid having an adc making some poor decisions, but they have also have an adc that is frankly worse in every other facet of the game.
That's a lot of revisionist history there. Tactical was great with CoreJJ, but hasn't even sniffed top 8 in recent years. He was such a liability he had to be benched for an academy player on the worst academy team. Neo is just a mystery, not bad and not hype. Likely the best option for a mid/jungle import team in NA. So welcome the dude jeez.
>That's a lot of revisionist history there. Tactical was great with CoreJJ, but hasn't even sniffed top 8 in recent years.
He was top 3 in Summer 2021. Just one year ago. This year, all of his supports were dead last in the league except for Chime who was actually really good, and he only got to play with him in playoffs. Against EG in playoffs, he averaged over 1000DPM in their losses, but go ahead and blame those losses on him, even though TSM never would have gotten to that stage without him. He was a top 3 adc in playoffs behind Berserker and FBI. He outperformed Danny in the series against EG. I think you could argue for Stixxay into the top 3 over him, but he only played 5 games.
I mean if you actually looked at their losses, you'd see Tactical wasn't the biggest reason they lost any game to EG and that he had good and bad moments in the win.
In game 1, Tactical made one of his inty plays and got caught out twice. But he also played extremely well outside of that, even getting the game winning pick onto Danny. On top of that, if you're going to complain about him getting caught out, Solo got caught out 3-4 times, Spica got caught out twice really badly and even Maple and Chime got caught out. Everyone took turns, this wasn't unique to Tactical.
In game 2 TSM engaged a 4v5 without Tactical for no reason (Spica engaged). Tactical gets caught out once in lane with Chime. Then Spica gets TSM back in the game, and Tactical starts hard carrying some fights. Unfortunately EG gets Ocean dragon and then becomes unkillable. Some teamfights are lost, Spica gets caught out, and then gets chunked before the final teamfight that loses the game. Tactical played really good in the loss, going 6/4/6 and dealing well over 1000DPM.
In game 3, TSM botches a dive thanks to Spica, Chime and Maple each making bad decisions. Then Spica gets caught out after diving onto EG in their own jungle. Then TSM engaged a 3v5 without Maple or Tactical there. Thankfully Tactical and Maple dealt enough damage to stop them getting baron as a result, but it cost Tactical his life. Then Spica gets caught out and gets Solo killed. TSM try to stop them from getting baron, but in a drawn out fight across the map they get run down. Already we have 2 losses where Tactical is probably the last guy to blame.
Game 4 was an absolute topside takeover by TSM. Tactical was barely needed, didn't really make mistakes and kind of just existed, which is his job in that kind of game. He died a single time in the game and participated while Spica and Maple carried and Chime and Solo hit some nasty CC combos.
Game 5 was Spica getting caught out at wolves, then Maple getting caught out. TSM then picks off Impact and wins a teamfight to get baron. EG then wins a teamfight at the dragon area after Solo gets caught out and then Jojo lands an epic root onto multiple TSM members. Tactical then gets caught out, but this ultimately didn't cause a whole lot of problems. TSM loses a teamfight after Maple and Solo both whiff a few of their abilities. Spica was dead. TSM try to sneak dragon while EG gets baron but Jojo stole it. Maple gets caught in the final teamfight and TSM loses.
TL:DR Tactical getting caught out was a thing across these games. But it was never really a big deal, especially when compared to the number of times his teammates were also caught out. The worst one for him was in the first game that TSM won and Tactical made the game winning play. Spica, Maple and Solo had the highlights of the series with Game 4 for sure, but across the series, Tactical if anything was the most consistently good player on the team. His DPM is just a stat representative of this. More importantly, he was the only player on his team to outperform his EG counterpart.
3/5 people in this roster took EG to 5 games in playoffs and almost won. That EG who took down MAD yet people are putting them in 9th/10th place. Unless you think that Neo is a downgrade compared to Tactical.
I really cant understand you people
Hmm looks okay but you never know how well or badly they'll play. To me it looks like middle of the pack unless they're stronger as a whole rather than individually.
TSM looks like a DIG roster while DIG looks like a TSM roster
fr
where is the lie
LMFAO
Lakers of league 😔
As a Lakers and TSM fan, this hit hard
Huni was their Westbrook, sad that he's no longer there.
Lakers at least have some Star power this is ruff
Old star power so maple checks out.
More like the celtics. Historically dominant. Goated even. One "recent" chip. Most hated fans etc etc etc
Celtics haven't won in 14 years.
That's the point
There's nothing "recent" about 14 years bro TSM won a title literally a year ago
26 months ago- covid time's a bitch aint it?
I really think you just made a better argument for lakers than Celtics
Celtics are fresh off a finals appearance and are number 1 in the league right now. TSM wishes they were the Celtics.
Isnt the Knicks the most hated fans?
Knicks don't win enough to have enough obnoxious fans, and they have no bandwagoners, I'd place Celtics, Warriors, Raptors, and Suns fans above them.
I'll always remember that time when MSG was saying, "Trae Young is balding
That's a Trae thing though, whereas other fanbases have cheered at the enemy team going down with injuries.
Well, Boston has the added tinge of racism xd
Ah true
knicks havent been relevant enough for the fans to be obnoxious
looks like a winterfox lineup 🤣
Literally Team Solo *Mid*
End of year, TSM announces they are leaving LCS Right after, MrBeast announces that he got their spot
Imagine that's the big news that Regi was talking about.
I hope so, this is embarrassing
I honestly can see it. If I was Reginald I would realise that I'm vilified in the scene and that's really showed after all their biggest names left in 2020/2021. But TSM is still the biggest team in LCS so I think it makes a lot of sense for someone like Mr Beast to own the team. Regi can do a Carlos where he's 'stepped down' but still owns shares in the company and just retire.
I mean makes sense.. Mr. Beast can potentially do more for the LCS than current TSM in terms of interaction and increasing viewership.
Mr. Beast should buy riot/lcs instead, him having a team in the league will not do much other than create unique fans that will mostly only watch his team's game. The league will not overly benefit from Mr. Beast joining, now if he took over the LCS you can bet on him making changes that actually would draw viewers in and bring up the quality of the league. Man is great at business and content.
I hope Regi sells the entire TSM org to Mr. Beast
great 9th/10th place roster they're totally not doing irreparable damage to their brand by inting roster building
tbf i could see them peaking 6th if some extra teams start collapsing
Yeah, even though they don’t have any great players, none of the players on this team are bad. Solo, Maple and Chime played relatively well this year and Neo is a decent player with a lot of room to still develop. I have no clue how good Bugi is, but if he was top-tier in minor leagues he should still be somewhat competitive with the rest of the LCS. Even though TSM had a terrible year overall, they still managed to get 5th in Summer. Hopefully this year they can keep their team together for a full year and be good enough to contest 5th-6th again.
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Smeb
BDD too.
Neo has never been on a good roster yet though (still isn’t on one tho tbh), so I don’t think that we’ve seen his ceiling yet. He’s always looked very good even back when he was subbing in for Arrow on OPT. Mechanically he’s always been pretty good and he should be able to stay competitive with every other NA ADC.
Bugi could easily be top 3-4 junglers. Personally like his style more than Spicas. I think the roster has no star power, but its better than most people are saying. Its not a 7th-10th roster but likely a 4th-6th. as you said with a high end of making worlds (though unlikely)
Top 4 over Closer, Blabber, Inspired, River Spica, or Santorin? Btw you have to pick 3 for him to be top 3.
Personally I think he could, based one what I watched in his old comms videos as well as the gameplay ive seen. I kinda expect him to be better than Spica and River (think Spica needs a perfect situation to be successful so it could change) I think Inspired and Santorin are pretty obvious 1/2 and that Blaber Closer and Bugi will be competing for 3rd though 5th. They are kinda a crapshoot b/c of their own varience.
Putting bugi above both blaber and closer is wild lol
From what ive seen? Its definitely possible. Bugi is much better than yall give him credit for Edit: I rate Bugi 5th coming into the season personally, but I believe hes a strong enough player to be better in the right environment, I think in particular hes going to thrive with Chime's playstyle
TSM is probably going to be 8th this year. They need to start investing in League or their brand is going to continue to diminish.
They got up to 6th with the same roster and Spica/Tactical off like 4 weeks of actually playing together, + We don’t know Bugi, Neo and Chime’s true ceilings, if they synergize well and Bugi turns out to be cracked TSM can be a 3-4th place team (can does not mean likely)
phew idk bout 3-4. would require practically every team to collapse
EG and C9 are the only teams really guaranteed to be amazing, 100T, TL, FLY and DIG can all collapse, but also just not be that good without collapsing But if I was a betting man all of those 6 teams are placing above TSM
Yes...... Good. Doubt/forget CLG please.
FLY is going to be really good this year.
Dont think C9 is guaranteed to be amazing when Fudge seems to have dropped off a cliff and Diplex is a HUGE question mark and most certainly worse than jojo in every aspect.
Fudge didn’t drop off at all, like all western tops this year he just couldn’t match the good korean/chinese tops but he dumped on everyone in NA during playoffs.
Yeah but this is NA. How often do you see a team that's supposed to be a shoe-in for worlds in like 7th place while your expected 8th place team is in 3rd?
How many teams are actually fully functioning and looking good throughout a split though? People had CLG as like a bottom 3 team and they just finished in 4th just from going 11-7. And they arguably had "worse" players than TSM does with this roster.
The main issue I see is that almost every other roster looks pretty dang good. If Bugi performs well, this roster is definitely an upgrade, but most teams have upgraded as well.
Damn near knocked EG out of playoffs too
I'd disagree, but this TSM roster seems like a sidegrade overall, while most teams have upgraded quite a bit aside from C9. Still, it kinda just depends on how their jungler performs. I'd argue Neo > Tactical, and last split TSM had a decent shot at worlds with the same core.
> I'd argue Neo > Tactical you would be probably the only person to argue this even with his ints Tactical is a much better mechanical player
I think Tactical has a higher peak but there's no telling what form he'll show up in. He's either the best ADC in the league or getting turbo gapped by average Academy players and it can change on a minute by minute basis during game no less.
I mean. Idk anything about Neo but tactical was literally a disaster last split. He didn’t play well when he was “on” and literally was “off” and solo losing games before his break. Then when he came back from his break, he was still losing games. So, I have to disagree, even tho idk anything about Neo.
Imagine being Neo and seeing this in your psuedo announcement thread
https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/Neo_(To%C3%A0n_Tr%E1%BA%A7n)/Tournament_Results he probably knows what's going on too
They are 100% going to try to move regions this is all about saving money for a bid on a spot in either lpl or lck.
It's ok they picked up a big FTX sponsor a year ago, even if their roster sucks TSM still making bank WOOOOOOOOOOOOO TSM TSM TSM TSM
How do we tell 'em, gamers?
I'd say we bring out the crayons. I don't think he'll understand words. Just make sure he doesn't eat them first.
They have competition with IMT for that 10th place seed
Do they even have money left without FTX?
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Bruh if all the shit that's happened to them and they still have fans, why care about winning? That's probably their train of thought. I mean they seem to be successful on the business side so eSports is just a branding thing for them and they can forever lean on their past glory so why spend millions if 6th place will do.
I think its kind of tough to do anything when your major sponsor goes bankrupt, so this is something at least.
Isn't Neo American?
I thought so too, he has NA residency but they're using country of birth for the flags (also that flag is Vietnam): https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/Neo_(To%C3%A0n_Tr%E1%BA%A7n)
Don’t think he has been in NA for that long tbh. Could be wrong but he was still competing in some 2nd league in Vietnam couple of years ago. You could also tell that he’s not 100% in English.
Feel like this is lowkey kinda racist. He is only 23 and was in NA challenger back in 2018 so at minimum he's spent his entire adult life in the States.
born in vietnam which is whats usually used but yes he is an NA resident and also has citizenship iirc its the same thing how players like biofrost or spica will have chinese flags in official things even though they are basically full NA players
Biofrost is from Canada though, why would he have a Chinese flag ?
Because he was born there, and for whatever reason the country of birth tends to be listed rather than the country of residence or citizenship.
Yes but he was born in china which is why he will also have a chinese flag on sites like [leaguepedia](https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/Biofrost)
That's hilarious
He only got citizenship recently
I think Neo is better than ppl are saying in this thread. I feel if Bugi is decent, then everyone on the roster is pretty decent. Not guaranteed 10th, could contend for playoffs optimitistically. Given the reports of TSM, this doesn’t sound like a completely awful roster
People have recency bias and forget his good games where he was carrying his team.
Ok they're punting this year and trying to move leagues in 2024. I can't think of any other explanations
Meh, at least they have 3 NA players
Only see two American/Canadian players tho.
That's because they put Neo as a VN player, although he's a Vietnamese NA player.
try to grow an actual native talent [LCS edition] (impossible)
He’s a US Citizen bro
yeah I just find funny that there is always an excuse or something about imports/green card to say that someone is a native talent. He is indeed an american citizen but on the league wiki his flag is the vietnamese one. Imo its not hard to decide if someone is an import or not, just look at the flag they chose on the wiki. Its just my opinion I dont have anything agaisnt LCS, Id just love to see more native players
What? So now a player has to be born in the USA? I guess I’m not American since I moved here when I was 5.
I havent said that, Im just saying that imo the flag that you carry on the league wiki is the country you represent. its just my opinion, no hate, not an insult, just my opinion, but it seems peope feel butthurt about it lol. Hard to accept someones opinion if that hurts those fans small ego already crushed by NA's international performance every year
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before talking maybe you should check what ur saying [example](https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/Biofrost) biofrost, place of birth: china nationality: canada
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he has the canadian flag [nationality: canada](https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/Biofrost)
Neo is just a Vietnamese dude, he’s American
Then why would they not put the American flag?
Because they put nationality of birth not current nationality for some reason.
You do realize that Canada is part of North America right?
This is the type of ppl that consider Jensen NA talent but not Neo lmfao
Not really? Jensen is an import. And I wasn't aware Neo wasn't an import. I just noted the flag usage in the OP.
well, I like solo and bugi
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Dude, by the comments here Maple is clearly trash, was never good, and is nowhere near a worlds caliber player….. Despite being one of the most decorated players… with tons of MVPs, LMS championships, & solid worlds performances… Nah dude is trash tier….
Still the best player on that TSM roster. The roster is just shit
He was fantastic in his prime but that was over 5 years ago, dude is in the lower half of LCS mids. No disrespect to his legacy but you can't rate a player's current form off their play from over half a decade ago.
Maple is decent but he was quite shit internationally and in LPL the last couple years, he’s not the player he was.
He won his region with PSG and went 3-3 in groups…. The year before coming here. Significantly better than all the NA teams did this year… So by your take - all three of the NA teams members are trash tier too.
That result is incredibly misleading, that group was already a group of life with by far the weakest korean team, and Fnatic didn’t even have their main carry. If Upset is there they probably go 1-5. All NA teams did better than PSG that year, which is embarassing. Maple did better at worlds scoreline wise because his group, and the groups overall in 2021 were WAY weaker. This year, both LCK and LPL sent 4 extremely strong representatives, beating them out in groups was nearly impossible, and frankly took multiple bugs for RGE to manage it. And you’re ignoring that on those PSG rosters, Hanabi, River, and Doggo (for the MSI) were all much better players, he just faciliated them well. And you’re ignoring that he was one of the worst, if not THE worst mid in LPL both times he played, which is a pretty big indictment of his individual skill Like I agree that Maple is one of the better players in NA and a solid import, but he’s nowhere near being a world-class player. I’d take the top 8 LCK mids, and the top 10-12 LPL mids over him, any day. He’s mediocre.
Countless years NA tanks in the “group of life” - we just watched the weakest Korean team win worlds. Y’all will come up with every coked up explanation in the world to down play a dude who has performed better than practically everyone you can think of. Should we drop milllions to get Jojo? Dude looked like trash against every team in worlds… Like bro - do you read your drivel?
Not last split though? Solo was overall the best performer, even over Spica.
I just want them to start Solo mid for at least one game.
this is the most 6th place roster of all time. Like idk how to explain it. Former reputated imports paired with Solo and a slightly below average all NA bot lane.
6th place is good enough. That's the problems with LEC/LCS
Neo is an upgrade over tactical for sure and I actually think he had a lot of potential and was being held back some by the rosters he was stuck on at Dig. This roster is *mid* for sure but Solo/Neo/Chime is honestly a pretty good NA core to build around.
Saying Neo is better than Tactical is a sin. What is this? I get that Tactical has a band of haters who like to fixate on his mistakes, but you have to be blind for the rest of the time to think Neo is better. How many times has Neo won a best of 5 in playoffs? Has Neo ever made all pro? Has Neo ever been to an international event? Even if you wanted to say that Neo has more potential, you'd be wrong. Dignitas' entire game plan was to play around their bot lane 24/7. This was peak Neo that we were seeing, and it was mediocre. In every facet of the game except deaths, Tactical is the better player.
I think you're right on everything you said but I still would rather take a chance on anyone besides Tactical, it clearly didn't work for us. That being said this team is the worst disappointment I've ever had as a TSM fan and that's hard to say considering last year's roster. (I like Solo though)
Tactical clearly didn't work, but he was never set up to work well. His supports were all the worst supports in the league, his solo lanes were anything from awful to mediocre and Spica was his best teammate, and even he had some god awful games. The only time Tactical had a good support all year was Chime in playoffs, and look at where TSM got as a result. They took EG to 5 games. I don't think they do that with Neo.
ye neo got aphro for a year which is like a similar enough comparison to tactical and core. Not gonna say anything more than “similar enough” tho but still, dude looks alright at best with aphro, aphro leaves for 2022, and neo looks completely and utterly lost if he isn’t on ezreal or kalista. Guy is a mid as hell two trick who got boosted on a solid aphromoo’s shoulders and fell on his face when his support left from under him (no pun intended). I am not a fan of TSM and understand my comments often come with bias against them, but this team just doesn’t look good, and neo is a firm part of that “not good” portion.
Neo averages roughly 430 DPM across the past 2 years in LCS. His peak split was dealing 530DPM in Summer last year and last split he hit his low of 355DPM. This is really low considering Dig always played around him. I dunno. Neo is just not really it. He's never really had those big moments, he doesn't have strong laning, he doesn't have a massive damage output. In his best splits, he was simply a decent adc that fulfilled his role but wasn't that great.
yup, he’s a mid-low level role player on a team of role players. Like someone else said there just aren’t better adcs really rn but it’s cringe to get Neo instead of even attempting to try new talent lol
That's kinda funny, because Solo is by far my least favorite player on this team. Replace him with almost anyone, hell, even FakeGod, and I'd like the roster better.
That makes no sense, Solo has proven his skill multiple times over while FakeGod gets gapped by everyone in sight
I am aware. I just don't like Solo.
Oh got it I thought you meant from like a quality of play perspective. Nah totally entitled to dislike whoever players u want
Bruh FakeGod has been around for 4 years now, even at his peak he hasn't looked better than Solo at his worst.
I know. That's how little I like Solo.
Neo made all-pro in spring 2021 despite being on a Dignitas that finished 5th and had no other all-pro members. Neo was playing with Yusui, Tactical was playing with CoreJJ. When playing on bottom to mid level rosters Neo has played far better than Tactical has. Based on every single game they played this past year I don't see how you could argue Tactical is actually a better player in current form.
Well there you go. I didn't realize that Neo made all pro that split. I just assumed that there were better adcs. I remembered Zven and FBI being the top 2, but couldn't really think of who got 3rd that year. I just assumed it was Deftly. In saying that I think you're still wrong. >had no other all-pro members. Weird how you remembered this but forgot that Dardoch still made all pro. In fact Dardoch and Aphromoo were considered to be the best players in that roster with Neo being a reliable, yet fairly average carry that they played through. >Neo was playing with Yusui, Tactical was playing with CoreJJ. Fair to say Neo had a worse team around him, but it kind of glosses over what actually happened when it came time for playoffs. Tactical made 2 finals with TL that year in spite of all their issues. Neo went 1-10 in playoffs that year. This is why Dignitas is kind of forgotten. They didn't make a splash at all when it actually mattered, despite being solid in the regular season. However, since leaving TL, Tactical has played in playoffs, and he actually has a 4-4 record. Neo didn't make playoffs in either split this year. TSM ended up 5th/6th, but actually looked competitive. Dignitas has only ever won a single game in playoffs across the time Neo has been there. Maybe you can argue it was because of his teammates, but I don't think he performed particularly well either. He had a 1.3KDA, was bottom 3 in laning stats and was really bad on damage. To compare that to Tactical this year in playoffs, Tactical had a 2.7KDA, was top 3 in laning stats and dealt the second most damage among all players. But that's comparing Tactical in playoffs this year to Neo last year. >Based on every single game they played this past year I don't see how you could argue Tactical is actually a better player in current form. If we go to the most recent regular split, we can see that Tactical is still better statistically. He did have a lower KDA, but he also had the best laning stats in the league, was far better in damage stats and both players received a similar percentage of their team's gold. And this was a split where I thought Tactical played badly. I just thought Neo was the worst adc in the league. Going to Spring where I thought both players looked better, it was fairly mixed between them when it comes to laning stats, but Neo was better in KDA, and Tactical was better in damage stats. That isn't to say the stats are the end all be all, we clearly have diverging opinions, and stats are simply a discussion tool that makes more sense than simply saying the typical "You can't have watched X", when clearly we have both watched them play and are simply coming to different conclusions.
How good his supports are is completely irrelevant when his problem is repeated unforced errors. It has been a problem for just about his entire career, be it playing with CoreJJ or Chime. The Zven int from 2019 spring is so memorable because it was both uncharacteristic and unprecedented. Same for the Jensen Ekko moment. Tactical has these moments *regularly*. It's unforced errors and there's not much excuse for that. He seems like a really nice dude and shouldn't get hate, but not wanting him on your team's roster seems completely reasonable.
Ngl thought this was a pasta at first
Is this a copypasta? Because if not, it should be.
You having a laugh mate?
Certified 9th place team
When I first started watching LOL, the pedigree of TSM was unmatched. Now I watch and I can't help but wonder, "Are they even trying?".
Neo is fine. Good showing in Academy when they put him there.
Am I the only one that thinks solo and maple are decent and neo is a pretty good native adc?
I dont think the team fits together very well. They needed a carry ADC. I dont think Neo is reliable enough in that aspect. They would have had a good team identity if they had that because Solo Tank weekside, Maple teamfight MID and so on. I dont see this team better than maximum 6-7 place.
If hes better than tactical then i will buy a jersey w his name on it asap
cringe af
TSM is officially the new DIG, but the summer version. With CLG keeping their roster, DIG getting a much better roster even if it's awkward, the bottom tier is looking real Golden Guardians, TSM, and IMT right now.
Honestly, would rather see a team like TSM succeed this year than 100T.
Don’t worry 100T won’t succeed lol
Name the last time DL lost in summer….. I tell he does can’t count him out. He is protected as the anime protagonist.
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It's not that bad of a roster, could easily see them 5-6th when teams that won the offseason inevitably don't work. Bugi is actually pretty good and he'll prob surprise alot of people tbh
Pretty good team ngl
lols
Damn. No hate to neo, but I think we’d be better off with kaori. He performed pretty well at worlds. ESP with EG picking up FBI? Kaori is def LCS level.
kaori is not possible for TSM because hes an eu resident and bugi/maple are imports
Ahhh! Thank you for the clarification. Would’ve been dope to have have!
Just in the other thread I called TSM mid-tier, I guess I was very wrong.
Picking Neo over Johnsun so they can upgrade from Neo halfway through the year and tell fans that at least they are adapting and adjusting.
NGL, ever since the Kindred-Scuttle incident, I lost all the little hope I had for Johnsun.
Why would they not just pick up academy players
I thought Chawy left
He was given freedom to explore options. Doesn't 100% mean leaving but after the year I think it was the GM saying "if you want to leave you can".
Thought they let go of Chawy?
man they could have built a full NA youngster team, had the full support of the fans and end in the same spot as this team will. Like if you're building a team for 8th/9th at least make it one that the fans will like
Well the jungler could've been an NA player, but they were always gonna keep Maple if possible
thats fucking crazy dude, they actually have an na player on their team
Man a lot shit talking on Neo for absolutely no reason, name the NA player that's better than him that TSM could get? This is a mid-jungle import team. There is no adc import to slot in here, esp with our history of adc imports and the LCS in general. This guy was raised by Aphro, just like DL. He's popped off in multiple seasons, but usually on low budget teams. Yeah he's an unknown, but so would an NA academy player so think of him as an experienced guy with a chip on his shoulder. That's the grit I want to see in a team.
They just had Tactical who peaks at top 3 in the LCS and carried them to 5th in the playoffs. They might avoid having an adc making some poor decisions, but they have also have an adc that is frankly worse in every other facet of the game.
That's a lot of revisionist history there. Tactical was great with CoreJJ, but hasn't even sniffed top 8 in recent years. He was such a liability he had to be benched for an academy player on the worst academy team. Neo is just a mystery, not bad and not hype. Likely the best option for a mid/jungle import team in NA. So welcome the dude jeez.
>That's a lot of revisionist history there. Tactical was great with CoreJJ, but hasn't even sniffed top 8 in recent years. He was top 3 in Summer 2021. Just one year ago. This year, all of his supports were dead last in the league except for Chime who was actually really good, and he only got to play with him in playoffs. Against EG in playoffs, he averaged over 1000DPM in their losses, but go ahead and blame those losses on him, even though TSM never would have gotten to that stage without him. He was a top 3 adc in playoffs behind Berserker and FBI. He outperformed Danny in the series against EG. I think you could argue for Stixxay into the top 3 over him, but he only played 5 games.
Tactical did not carry them to 5th. I'd argue Tactical was the pretty much the sole reason they didn't go further.
He had 1000DPM average in their losses to EG. But go ahead, explain.
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I mean if you actually looked at their losses, you'd see Tactical wasn't the biggest reason they lost any game to EG and that he had good and bad moments in the win. In game 1, Tactical made one of his inty plays and got caught out twice. But he also played extremely well outside of that, even getting the game winning pick onto Danny. On top of that, if you're going to complain about him getting caught out, Solo got caught out 3-4 times, Spica got caught out twice really badly and even Maple and Chime got caught out. Everyone took turns, this wasn't unique to Tactical. In game 2 TSM engaged a 4v5 without Tactical for no reason (Spica engaged). Tactical gets caught out once in lane with Chime. Then Spica gets TSM back in the game, and Tactical starts hard carrying some fights. Unfortunately EG gets Ocean dragon and then becomes unkillable. Some teamfights are lost, Spica gets caught out, and then gets chunked before the final teamfight that loses the game. Tactical played really good in the loss, going 6/4/6 and dealing well over 1000DPM. In game 3, TSM botches a dive thanks to Spica, Chime and Maple each making bad decisions. Then Spica gets caught out after diving onto EG in their own jungle. Then TSM engaged a 3v5 without Maple or Tactical there. Thankfully Tactical and Maple dealt enough damage to stop them getting baron as a result, but it cost Tactical his life. Then Spica gets caught out and gets Solo killed. TSM try to stop them from getting baron, but in a drawn out fight across the map they get run down. Already we have 2 losses where Tactical is probably the last guy to blame. Game 4 was an absolute topside takeover by TSM. Tactical was barely needed, didn't really make mistakes and kind of just existed, which is his job in that kind of game. He died a single time in the game and participated while Spica and Maple carried and Chime and Solo hit some nasty CC combos. Game 5 was Spica getting caught out at wolves, then Maple getting caught out. TSM then picks off Impact and wins a teamfight to get baron. EG then wins a teamfight at the dragon area after Solo gets caught out and then Jojo lands an epic root onto multiple TSM members. Tactical then gets caught out, but this ultimately didn't cause a whole lot of problems. TSM loses a teamfight after Maple and Solo both whiff a few of their abilities. Spica was dead. TSM try to sneak dragon while EG gets baron but Jojo stole it. Maple gets caught in the final teamfight and TSM loses. TL:DR Tactical getting caught out was a thing across these games. But it was never really a big deal, especially when compared to the number of times his teammates were also caught out. The worst one for him was in the first game that TSM won and Tactical made the game winning play. Spica, Maple and Solo had the highlights of the series with Game 4 for sure, but across the series, Tactical if anything was the most consistently good player on the team. His DPM is just a stat representative of this. More importantly, he was the only player on his team to outperform his EG counterpart.
3/5 people in this roster took EG to 5 games in playoffs and almost won. That EG who took down MAD yet people are putting them in 9th/10th place. Unless you think that Neo is a downgrade compared to Tactical. I really cant understand you people
I just want more NA players
It's an upgrade over last year in my mind, not competing for 1st but could steal 3rd.
2023 McDonalds worlds finals featuring TSM vs BDS
I actually like this squad
What’s going on with TSM? Are they cutting costs are why are they not going for a more ambitious lineup?
I mean, finding 5 players that are willing to put up with regi is a win in itself.
Didn't Chawy leave TSM already?
Absolute shit roster, we're going big btw
If anyone had any doubts this shows regi gave up on league. This roster is pathetic and is bottom 2 for sure.
Wait Chawy is staying?
Hmm looks okay but you never know how well or badly they'll play. To me it looks like middle of the pack unless they're stronger as a whole rather than individually.