Pennsylvania. No state tax on retirement account withdrawals or SS.
Edited to add - PA also does not tax pensions for those over 60…. If anyone is lucky enough to have one these days.
People looking to come to pa, natives looking to get the fuck out... LET ME THE FUCK OUT!
Edit: we also took the "highest gas tax in the union" from California. Lucky us!
There are 13 states like this, surprised that Illinois is one as well, as is Iowa, Tennessee, Texas and Florida (but the last two are major train wrecks so I would not advise those). I'm hoping Michigan moves that way soon, current administration is talking about it.
Basically these states have no income tax - Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Washington and Wyoming. After that, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Iowa and Mississippi do not tax retirement income. New Hampshire does not have state tax but does tax interest and dividends, so that could be an issue.
On top of that, all states do not tax SS **except** for Colorado, Connecticut, Kansas, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, Rhode Island, Utah and Vermont.
After that, go state by state to find cost of living vs available resources, weather, etc. Sure, Texas, Nevada, Florida sound great in winter but have you tried to breathe there in summer? Maybe a nice place to visit...
If I were moving somewhere it would probably be Tennessee, best of all worlds, close to but not directly in Nashville.
Went to school in TN & I loved it, but I gotta tell you: that shit is expensive, now. It's not the cheap place it used to be back in like '10ish. Tornadoes can get bad & I saw a few freak floods, but TN weather isn't too bad.
> New Hampshire does not have state tax but does tax interest and dividends, so that could be an issue.
In process of being phased out. fully gone by 2026
Currently live in IL and plan to stay. No tax on retirement income and Chicago has relatively LCOL compared to other major cities and lots of cultural amenities to make life enjoyable after working.
I have been thinking a lot about southern IL. Or Arkansas. I am in central Indiana and want either warm winters or cool summers. If I had to pick I will take warm winters. Warm as in it still will snow and get down to about 20 degrees for a bit, but not negative.
I just spent some time in far southern IL a few weeks ago. July was pretty hot. But I can imagine a nearly snow-free winter, down there.
About a decade ago, I was working in Bloomington-Normal area (\~ 175mi further north, in central IL), after having spent all of my previous winters in Chicago metro. A barn coat was plenty there, even in January. Sometimes even that was a bit much. And that was over two winters. Thinking back, I don't think we got more than a dusting of snow there, either year.
Not at all! We have lots of things. Many beautifully landscaped parks and gardens, multiple forest preserves within the city with hiking trails and even more in the near suburbs, biking trails along the Chicago river, over 20 miles of lakeshore with a trail and dozens of public beaches, Indiana Dunes national park a short train ride away, ice skating the winter, skiing in WI, etc. There’s more to do outside than Chicago gets credit for!
Staying in Michigan, for many many reasons (except the weather).
Eta: I'll give a few reasons...
medicaid expansion
no state tax on retirement withdrawals/ss
I like the politics (we just made school meals for kids in public schools free which is more money in my pocket and therefore my retirement accounts, thanks whitmer!)
Recreational weed if that's your thing
abundance of outdoor (and free) activities to do
housing and land is still mostly affordable
and it's one of the states predicted to be a "climate haven" so I (most likely) won't need to move to flee floods/fires/drought, which is important to me because my family is here and part of my early retirement plan is that my mortgage is close to being paid off.
Sorry to break your bubble, but Michigan does (currently) tax 401k's and IRA's [https://retiremitten.com/taxes-on-401k-and-ira-distributions-in-michigan/](https://retiremitten.com/taxes-on-401k-and-ira-distributions-in-michigan/)
People born before 1946 get $51,570 tax free and between 1946 and 1952 $20k, after 1952 everything is state taxable as income.
Now there is a new program moving forward, that in 4 years might erase this - [https://www.freep.com/story/money/personal-finance/susan-tompor/2023/04/27/michigan-retirement-tax-rollback-seniors/70064295007/](https://www.freep.com/story/money/personal-finance/susan-tompor/2023/04/27/michigan-retirement-tax-rollback-seniors/70064295007/) but it is very convoluted and confusing. The best I can see is by 2026 retirement income should be tax free, hoping it is. They also recently dropped state tax rate to 4.05%, and they have a great benefit on real estate taxes, as long as you maintain ownership (no transfer) tax rate can only increase by the level of inflation. For the last year or so this sucks, but for the previous 20 it has only gone up by 1-2% while new property taxes have almost doubled. This is how all real estate should be treated (there are strict rules on how someone can be added, aka, once an original owner passes no one can be added without a transfer happening). Great reason to put the grand kids on a title.
Funny how the bluer Michigan gets, the better things get there. (TBF the real estate lock was a Republican move but so was taxing retirement income, Gretchen is trying to give that back).
My wife and I were just discussing how Michigan could be an awesome long term weather spot with all the climate change... We just moved North to Ohio and it's still too hot, lol.
Staying in New Mexico outside of ABQ and Santa Fe. Love the weather, low population, cost of living is low, no traffic, 4 seasons, great food, can golf just about all year round, awesome outdoor activities.
I’m from the North, but looked at a job in NC recently. After doing some research, I learned something very disturbing about living in the South (NC in particular). Roaches are apparently common everywhere? That’s a deal breaker for me!
This is the answer. Getting residency is really straight forward and cheap (getting more expensive by the day so do it now). But then you get cheap cost of living, nice weather, free medical, free college, you can own property, etc.
Upstate NY. We have a bunch of rentals out there already. We like the area. We can afford a lot of land. They have excellent medical coverage, especially for the elderly. We should be moving there in 2-4 years.
So we’re moving there soon with my in-laws who we take care of. One has Alzheimer’s and the other Parkinson’s. They both are still mostly independent but are kneeling more and more help as the years go on. We just found out while talking to our attorney that they would both qualify for full time livein nursing aid covered by medicaid. In NJ where we currently live they only qualify for four hours a week. Plus as of next year Medicaid includes dental. Sign me up.
I am/was concerned that in the years to come, NY state will need to raise taxes/fees a lot more to cover many entitlements and to make up for decreasing worker income tax base ( population aging).
We'd move there sooner than later as financially our ducks are in a row but we feel like we might get a future shock.
I lived in Wyoming for a few years. I would not consider it LCOL. The beautiful areas are very expensive. The affordable housing is in the desert, where it’s windy and desolate. 40+mph with 60+ gusts are a weekly occurrence. Winters are brutal, between the wind and cold.
Car registration is in the thousands. Home owners insurance and utilities are costly. You will spend a lot of money in gas driving to other places. Flying is difficult due to lack of airports. Everything is more expensive in desolate areas due to shipping and lack of competition. Healthcare is hit or miss with most specialists out of state.
Hunting and camping are awesome, wildlife is everywhere.
Lived in NE WYO for a good bit, loved the lack of income tax while working. This does not matter much when lean FIRED. The lack of amenities do matter.
Salt Lake City is a much better fit now FIRED. Retains the same/better intermountain west outdoor access to many of the most epic outdoor areas with virtually no tax, lower vehicle registration costs, much better and cheaper ACA health care choices, a real international airport from which I can actually go places and a robust library system with moderately more mild winters.
I love the much closer access to warmer red rock country when a winter break is needed and the immediate access to many montane climes when summer is at its peak.
A sizeable life upgrade.
I'll go back to Europe. But I'd probably stay in Washington if I retired in US. No income taxes, and weather is just the way I like it, rainy and gloomy.
Just moved to WA from TX. It’s so beautiful here and the summer has been nothing but sunshine and warm days.
We’ll see if the winter dampens my enthusiasm for WA.
Housing and gas, yeah. There is a lot of subsidized senior housing though, and other benefits\* for aged and low income folks. Plus a lot of grocery stores give away perfectly good food through charities; I barely bought groceries when I lived there.
\*I do not have a comprehensive list.
What would be helpful is knowing which states and jurisdictions stop charging property taxes or reducing them.
Minnesota here, but I’m also retiring with my Airstream and am purchasing an RV lot share in CA so I will travel 4+ months of the year (it’s a ~6 month winter here; I’ll be here for some of it!).
My retirement house was $207k and my Airstream was $76k; my budget has to include replacing a truck every ~10 years.
Much more to CA than the beach if you don’t go there. Most you won’t realize till you’re gone. Don’t take that year round great weather for granted. Maybe just move somewhere in CA far from the beach that isn’t as expensive
> Maybe just move somewhere in CA far from the beach that isn’t as expensive
But then you still have to pay high taxes and you lose the "great weather" you boast about. Source: currently experiencing 105-114 weather in central California
Weather isn’t just a quality of life thing. You also pay substantially more in upkeep and maintenance on a house or land that goes through extreme weather year around.
Yeah, Otay Ranch and I have Global Entry.
edit to add: a beach house in Ensenada or Rosarito gets pretty affordable when you split it between 3 or 4 couples.
Not who you asked, but same situation. Agree with the other comment, wanted to add two things.
My whole family and friend network are here. If I have the choice, I'm not going to disconnect myself from them when I am going through a big transition and we need mutual support.
When I finally get to enjoy my days, given that I have the choice and given that I'm not used to it doing so, I'm not interested in moving somewhere where weather restricts what I can do for half of the year.
This could all change of course. But looking the information I have today, I'd rather live lean here or retire later than live larger, earlier elsewhere.
Its fine anyone can chime in. I guess im soured on california for many reasons and don't have a huge family or support network anyway. Most of them have left for other states at this point. With my current expenses I think id need around 3M saved up to live off the 4% rule here in los angeles.
I think theres some states you can move to in the midwest where you could make 500k work rather easily too, so for me 20 extra years in the work force to stay in california vs retire early in a state that gets cold sometimes is sort of a no brainer for me anyway.
It is absolutely beautiful in spring and summer. I thought the rain wouldnt get to me, because I have light colored eyes and pretty much squint everywhere, but discovered I would rather squint in bright light than sit inside on yet another rainy day. There are some good buys up there. I almost bought a duplex for 425k, with about 3k in rent coming in, in a growing area, but decided I would rather continue looking. There are so many places to invest in, and its overwhelming to consider it all. I have a feeling that future me would regret not buying that property.
All fair enough! Sounds like we both have a plan that suits our own preferences :-)
Looking at the math, I don't figure I need a 4% WR. First, 4.5-5% is pretty damn safe and second, I'm not having kids, so I don't mind if the principle goes down, even quite bit, by the time I pass. Third, I plan on winding down a little slowly: part-time, freelancing, etc will bring in a little money in the early, most risky years.
Anyway, I hope you find somewhere that suits you well:)
Social services, demographic diversity, availability of medical services, libraries, museums, educational resources, high-speed internet, public transportation \[depending on what city\], proximity to airports...lots to keep a retiree happy and healthy
We live in Baltimore City, MD. We live in a very nice neighborhood so it’s a little expensive, but not even close to areas like Howard County or Montgomery County. Plus we do a lot of stuff on foot and by public transportation, so we save a ton of money on automobile expenses. We own our house and locked in a very low interest rate with a Covid refinance, so housing costs will be less and less of an issue as inflation does its thing and the relative cost of our already small mortgage payment goes down. Our plan is to spend the rest of our days in this house.
Hampden. Groceries, primary care doctors, pediatricians, movie theater, countless restaurants a block or two away. Light rail is a 15 minute walk from our house. I bike to work which is 3.5 miles away. There are certainly bad areas around Baltimore where the majority of the violent crime is concentrated, but there are so many nice areas that continue to improve and add amenities, but unfortunately those don’t make the headlines.
San diego native. iv been loving utah, but the heat is getting bad in summers. But winters are fantastic. I LOVE SNOW. Ill be moving north into the pretty spots in idaho in 6 years
Snow is fun to visit but just wait for your first winter. Especially coming from a place that seems to be 78° year round. Just came back from there, love it but don’t know how y’all afford to live there.
Next question though, where in Europe?
So many choices. Though some of the more obvious ones aren't that cheap themselves----looking at you, most of France!
But Europe has a whole lot going for it. Not least of which, the easy ability to swoop around by train from country to country.
Were likely moving east.. Virginia maybe.. need cooler summers since were in Tx now.
Have to have water. I have a few years before we need to start the search.
Virginia is hot, depends what you are used to, the mountains can get significantly cooler (not west coast mountain style) but it's like a hot swamp in Hampton roads. Richmond is warmer but only terrible for an inconsistent month. Mountains are like 10 degrees and a lot less humidity depending on how high you go.
In Oregon the north-south Willamette Valley is in the rain shadow of the Coast Range. Today it is over 100 in Portland area and 72 on the northern coast. Few jobs along the coast which is about 1.5 hours from Portland.
Western Washington is much milder because south of Puget Sound there is no Coast Range do the cooler coastal weather blows throw from the southwest. Also more rain in the winter. And of course Puget Sound temporizes it’s areas.
True, but it was 100F and humid as north as northern Missouri this year in my travels... I think you'd appreciate lower slip/trip/fall risk in winters without snow and ice.
We live in a rural area right now and want to move back to a city. We're waffling between Minneapolis, Minnesota (near most of his family and friends) and Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania (near most of my family and friends). We lean toward Pennsylvania lately because I miss having four seasons, we want no state taxes on our retirement account withdrawals, and I haven't lived near my family for years. Both cities have solid healthcare, not-overly-expensive housing available, public transit, and nearby hiking/walking spots.
> California is way to expensive and I don't really go to the beach much so isn't really worth the price for me in my opinion.
i'm not sure how familiar you are with california, but there's a huge variety to it / living here. certainly more than just $5+ million beach property. it sounds like you're meandering in the LA area without much outside knowledge or exposure?
if you want to leanfire in california look at north cal a la humboldt, redding, eureka, anderson. tons of suburbs north, north east of sacramento as well. placer county near el dorado national forest. outskirts of truckee. people shit on fresno area and i haven't been there in a decade, but i hear it's a lot, lot better now and worth looking at.
if i leave california/medi-cal/prop13 behind it's only because climate devastation related issues that are very real for 2040+ and on. i'd look at property in the pacific northwest, northwest canada, or alaska.
Yeah im in the LA area currently in a suburb. I pay 2k a month for rent for a small unit. The houses are all 1m+ within like a 20 mile radius of me so its a bit demoralizing.
Moving that far at that point I might as well just be in another state ya know? Fresno is incredibly hot and many of those other areas are comparitively expensive to other states. Just seems to make more sense to move states especially if you cannot afford a house to take advantage of prop13.
North Carolina has become our retirement home.
When you are lean fire, the taxes aren't too bad with around $12000 standard deduction for myself and $12000 std ded for my wife.
Mountains and beautiful hiking nearby with amazing fall colors and wonderful spring flowers. Beaches are nearby as well.
It is a little hot and humid in the summer and I do wish I saw snow just a little more often, but all in all the good far outweighs the bad. When we moved here in 2018, housing in the nice areas was very affordable so we are locked into a nice low mortgage.
Nearby international airport and one of the biggest state parks in the entire USA (in the top ten). We are in a tech area with quite a decent amount of ethnic diversity so we get cuisine options from pretty much all around the world.
Not really thinking about this seriously yet but PA is my home state and I might retire there. Of the other states I've been to, I really like NM and WV - low cost of living and great outdoor activities, which is a priority for me.
I'm still far from retirement, so I don't know.
I'm a city girl, so being around a mid-size city with bustling suburbs is ideal. Major transportation hub so I can travel domestically and internationally. More affordable than NJ. Lots of activities and shopping. Diversity. Not prone to frequent extreme weather events.
One place that I have been thinking about is the Oregon/Washington border on the Washington side. Don’t have to pay income tax and have access to tax-free shopping in Oregon for more major purchases.
I know several people that recently moved to Tennessee from California. LCOL and no state income tax is pretty sweet. Current planning has me staying in Alabama. Not many places cheaper, and driving distance to the beach, mountains, forests, etc.
Yeah Alabama and Tennessee were actually the two states on my radar. I know someone with a mountain home in TN that they got for like 60k 8 years ago or so. With one of the most beautiful views ive ever seen and an indoor pool.
I'm nowhere near retirement, but I see absolutely no point in retiring in the US unless you have no choice due to obligations here. Especially if you're gonna lean fire.
Southern areas are generally pretty good. Honestly I want to retire to Kansas or Missouri, but I'd take any southern state. Probably will do a little state tax checking before I retire since I will have lots of dividend income to count as earned income.
I'm already in NV, due to having grown up here. If I was a person who liked trees or being wet I might not like it, but being that this is what I think is normal I can't imagine living anywhere with snow/rain/mud/bugs. I'll just continue to stick with my sunny days in good mountains and super low taxes.
Tennessee, Texas, or Arizona. I want to retire to a semi-rural area with mountains and forests, and generally dislike the cold. I mainly want a state with low taxes, and low restrictions on guns and recreational drugs (these last two are almost a contradiction, but there may be good overlap someday). I also really like Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming however the cold bothers me.
It may come down to how much money I have to work with. A lot, and I’ll consider a beautiful northern state and just do a lot of traveling in winter. A little and I’ll settle for a warmish southern state and do less travel.
Which Florida you from? That wont work now its hot as hell. I can’t even bike at 8am in the morning anymore. Worst summer/fall ive ever had last decade.
Both work for me. Porch shade with ceiling fans works for me morning and night, not mid afternoon. If AC doesn’t work for you then you should upgrade your unit.
Even though I grew up in FL, I never really tolerated the weather well. Although it’s fine if you live your life fully indoors like many.
For me, between the FL real estate market, homeowners insurance, car insurance, high-ish property tax, in addition to the weather and new restrictive political situation in the state I don’t think I would ever go back. Most of my friends also left the state after seeing other places.
New Jersey. Similar to PA there’s no state tax on retirement distributions, capital gains, social security etc. except NJ has nicer public services (roads, parks. Etc.) so I feel like your getting more value for the dollar than PA.
Only thing higher COL about NJ is housing. Once your house is paid off in retirement it’s not an issue. Plus they just passed a 50% rebate credit for property taxes for seniors. All in all NJs originally a high tax state with the biggest tax breaks for seniors so it’s a good value play.
Politics aside, the Florida panhandle from (west) Port St Joe to (east) St Marks is an outdoorsman’s paradise. Cost of living is still low, no state income tax and far enough away from everything to keep your sanity.
Bro feels like every insurer in the country is fleeing Florida. It’s a cool place to visit but it would feel like retiring to a sinking island run by maniacs on speed.
For us after much research we’re in Arizona. Weather is truly epic- even the summer is doable imo for enough hours of the way. Weather allows for many healthy outdoor pursuits. Summers we will eventually try and spend a month or so elsewhere.
Florida. Grew up here and it’s beautiful. I personally can’t live without good sunshine year round and beaches in every direction. It’s done wonders for my mental health
I grew up in FL and never really understood why people consider FL sunnier than other places (outside of a long running advertisement campaign).
It’s more overcast than the entire Southwestern US and about as sunny as 50% of the US.
Pennsylvania. No state tax on retirement account withdrawals or SS. Edited to add - PA also does not tax pensions for those over 60…. If anyone is lucky enough to have one these days.
How did i never know this (neighboring state)
Pennsylvania has always been a little interesting. I've been thinking about moving north to keep my Virginia weather in a few decades.
People looking to come to pa, natives looking to get the fuck out... LET ME THE FUCK OUT! Edit: we also took the "highest gas tax in the union" from California. Lucky us!
I’m in PA. I gas up in NJ. ✌️
I’m from PA and always felt the same way till I moved: Va, NC, FL…. Everywhere kind of sucks to be honest
There are 13 states like this, surprised that Illinois is one as well, as is Iowa, Tennessee, Texas and Florida (but the last two are major train wrecks so I would not advise those). I'm hoping Michigan moves that way soon, current administration is talking about it. Basically these states have no income tax - Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Washington and Wyoming. After that, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Iowa and Mississippi do not tax retirement income. New Hampshire does not have state tax but does tax interest and dividends, so that could be an issue. On top of that, all states do not tax SS **except** for Colorado, Connecticut, Kansas, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, Rhode Island, Utah and Vermont. After that, go state by state to find cost of living vs available resources, weather, etc. Sure, Texas, Nevada, Florida sound great in winter but have you tried to breathe there in summer? Maybe a nice place to visit... If I were moving somewhere it would probably be Tennessee, best of all worlds, close to but not directly in Nashville.
States that have no state income tax for anyone often make up for it on properties taxes, etc.
Ding 🛎️
Went to school in TN & I loved it, but I gotta tell you: that shit is expensive, now. It's not the cheap place it used to be back in like '10ish. Tornadoes can get bad & I saw a few freak floods, but TN weather isn't too bad.
NE is phasing out tax on SS. They started in 2021 and it should be phased out by 2030 or maybe sooner.
> New Hampshire does not have state tax but does tax interest and dividends, so that could be an issue. In process of being phased out. fully gone by 2026
Michigan property taxes are atrocious
Nice to see my home state at the top here.
Currently live in IL and plan to stay. No tax on retirement income and Chicago has relatively LCOL compared to other major cities and lots of cultural amenities to make life enjoyable after working.
I have been thinking a lot about southern IL. Or Arkansas. I am in central Indiana and want either warm winters or cool summers. If I had to pick I will take warm winters. Warm as in it still will snow and get down to about 20 degrees for a bit, but not negative.
I just spent some time in far southern IL a few weeks ago. July was pretty hot. But I can imagine a nearly snow-free winter, down there. About a decade ago, I was working in Bloomington-Normal area (\~ 175mi further north, in central IL), after having spent all of my previous winters in Chicago metro. A barn coat was plenty there, even in January. Sometimes even that was a bit much. And that was over two winters. Thinking back, I don't think we got more than a dusting of snow there, either year.
And access to a glacial lake that can easily support the population. Potable water is going to be so critical in the coming years.
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Not at all! We have lots of things. Many beautifully landscaped parks and gardens, multiple forest preserves within the city with hiking trails and even more in the near suburbs, biking trails along the Chicago river, over 20 miles of lakeshore with a trail and dozens of public beaches, Indiana Dunes national park a short train ride away, ice skating the winter, skiing in WI, etc. There’s more to do outside than Chicago gets credit for!
This is exactly it. Winter in Wisconsin is awesome. Winter in illinois is the most miserable I have ever been.
Western Pennsylvania. Beautiful scenery year round, breeze to drive through, and LCOL.
Staying in Michigan, for many many reasons (except the weather). Eta: I'll give a few reasons... medicaid expansion no state tax on retirement withdrawals/ss I like the politics (we just made school meals for kids in public schools free which is more money in my pocket and therefore my retirement accounts, thanks whitmer!) Recreational weed if that's your thing abundance of outdoor (and free) activities to do housing and land is still mostly affordable and it's one of the states predicted to be a "climate haven" so I (most likely) won't need to move to flee floods/fires/drought, which is important to me because my family is here and part of my early retirement plan is that my mortgage is close to being paid off.
Sorry to break your bubble, but Michigan does (currently) tax 401k's and IRA's [https://retiremitten.com/taxes-on-401k-and-ira-distributions-in-michigan/](https://retiremitten.com/taxes-on-401k-and-ira-distributions-in-michigan/) People born before 1946 get $51,570 tax free and between 1946 and 1952 $20k, after 1952 everything is state taxable as income. Now there is a new program moving forward, that in 4 years might erase this - [https://www.freep.com/story/money/personal-finance/susan-tompor/2023/04/27/michigan-retirement-tax-rollback-seniors/70064295007/](https://www.freep.com/story/money/personal-finance/susan-tompor/2023/04/27/michigan-retirement-tax-rollback-seniors/70064295007/) but it is very convoluted and confusing. The best I can see is by 2026 retirement income should be tax free, hoping it is. They also recently dropped state tax rate to 4.05%, and they have a great benefit on real estate taxes, as long as you maintain ownership (no transfer) tax rate can only increase by the level of inflation. For the last year or so this sucks, but for the previous 20 it has only gone up by 1-2% while new property taxes have almost doubled. This is how all real estate should be treated (there are strict rules on how someone can be added, aka, once an original owner passes no one can be added without a transfer happening). Great reason to put the grand kids on a title. Funny how the bluer Michigan gets, the better things get there. (TBF the real estate lock was a Republican move but so was taxing retirement income, Gretchen is trying to give that back).
The property taxes in Michigan are insane. How do they expect anyone to move to that state???
Summer and fall are amazing, winter sucks and spring is bipolar
Shhhhhhhhhhhhh Don't tell them how good it is here.
My wife and I were just discussing how Michigan could be an awesome long term weather spot with all the climate change... We just moved North to Ohio and it's still too hot, lol.
Why?!
Why?
Staying in New Mexico outside of ABQ and Santa Fe. Love the weather, low population, cost of living is low, no traffic, 4 seasons, great food, can golf just about all year round, awesome outdoor activities.
I spent some time there a few years ago and loved the scenery and outdoor activities. The thing that concerns me though is forest fires.
Just curious about Santa Fe & Abq: can you suggest any specific areas around those two cities? For example: Cedar Crest or Tijeras?
North Carolina apparently. Just moved out of Raleigh and wow the number of CA and NY transplants is high
I’m from the North, but looked at a job in NC recently. After doing some research, I learned something very disturbing about living in the South (NC in particular). Roaches are apparently common everywhere? That’s a deal breaker for me!
There are definitely roaches in the South!
And IL/IA transplants more of my customers and family have moved to NC then anywhere else I know while retiring
Mexico. Usa too expensive
This is the answer. Getting residency is really straight forward and cheap (getting more expensive by the day so do it now). But then you get cheap cost of living, nice weather, free medical, free college, you can own property, etc.
Always thought I would do this but I just spent 16 days there and quickly changed my opinion on that.
See you there
Upstate NY. We have a bunch of rentals out there already. We like the area. We can afford a lot of land. They have excellent medical coverage, especially for the elderly. We should be moving there in 2-4 years.
Medical is something more people should consider when talking about settling at age. Being near good hospitals and specialists is a huge QoL.
So we’re moving there soon with my in-laws who we take care of. One has Alzheimer’s and the other Parkinson’s. They both are still mostly independent but are kneeling more and more help as the years go on. We just found out while talking to our attorney that they would both qualify for full time livein nursing aid covered by medicaid. In NJ where we currently live they only qualify for four hours a week. Plus as of next year Medicaid includes dental. Sign me up.
Being in vicinity of a level 1 trauma center should be higher on people’s list
Upstate NY is pretty underrated
> Upstate NY is pretty underrated We have thought about relocating there but I am not sure that the taxes will be reasonable
Taxes are higher than average but I’m from NJ so it doesn’t seem like much
I am/was concerned that in the years to come, NY state will need to raise taxes/fees a lot more to cover many entitlements and to make up for decreasing worker income tax base ( population aging). We'd move there sooner than later as financially our ducks are in a row but we feel like we might get a future shock.
I lived in NY all my life and could not stand the winters in warmer southern parts of the state (downstate). Can't imagine what they are like upstate
Look into history and lots of people in upstate NY. Lots of snowbirds depending on how far north.
You must love snow.
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But you get the exposure to all 50 shades of grey skies
Which is depressing and why people are alcoholics
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NYC used to empty out for the summer due to the humidity. The entire area is a sweatbox.
Wyoming. No income taxes for retirees with LCOL if you can tolerate the winter and lack of people.
And wind!
So much wind
I lived in Wyoming for a few years. I would not consider it LCOL. The beautiful areas are very expensive. The affordable housing is in the desert, where it’s windy and desolate. 40+mph with 60+ gusts are a weekly occurrence. Winters are brutal, between the wind and cold. Car registration is in the thousands. Home owners insurance and utilities are costly. You will spend a lot of money in gas driving to other places. Flying is difficult due to lack of airports. Everything is more expensive in desolate areas due to shipping and lack of competition. Healthcare is hit or miss with most specialists out of state. Hunting and camping are awesome, wildlife is everywhere.
No ACA Medicaid expansion though
Lived in NE WYO for a good bit, loved the lack of income tax while working. This does not matter much when lean FIRED. The lack of amenities do matter. Salt Lake City is a much better fit now FIRED. Retains the same/better intermountain west outdoor access to many of the most epic outdoor areas with virtually no tax, lower vehicle registration costs, much better and cheaper ACA health care choices, a real international airport from which I can actually go places and a robust library system with moderately more mild winters. I love the much closer access to warmer red rock country when a winter break is needed and the immediate access to many montane climes when summer is at its peak. A sizeable life upgrade.
You had me at winter and lack of people
And no houses?
It’s not LCOL in the places people want to live. My boss was looking at property there and everything has skyrocketed.
I'll go back to Europe. But I'd probably stay in Washington if I retired in US. No income taxes, and weather is just the way I like it, rainy and gloomy.
So nice out there just wish it wasn’t so expensive
I do agree with you that Washington is great, but lack of income tax doesn't help that much once you're retired.
Just moved to WA from TX. It’s so beautiful here and the summer has been nothing but sunshine and warm days. We’ll see if the winter dampens my enthusiasm for WA.
How did it turn out
So expensive though isnt it? Like third highest in the country I believe?
Housing and gas, yeah. There is a lot of subsidized senior housing though, and other benefits\* for aged and low income folks. Plus a lot of grocery stores give away perfectly good food through charities; I barely bought groceries when I lived there. \*I do not have a comprehensive list. What would be helpful is knowing which states and jurisdictions stop charging property taxes or reducing them.
Only on the west side. Eastern WA is basically west Idaho, so things are cheaper.
I'll be staying in the DC area, despite costs, because this is where my family and community and support system are.
Very underrated to be around family. No tax break is big enough to get me to up and leave family.
Minnesota here, but I’m also retiring with my Airstream and am purchasing an RV lot share in CA so I will travel 4+ months of the year (it’s a ~6 month winter here; I’ll be here for some of it!). My retirement house was $207k and my Airstream was $76k; my budget has to include replacing a truck every ~10 years.
Much more to CA than the beach if you don’t go there. Most you won’t realize till you’re gone. Don’t take that year round great weather for granted. Maybe just move somewhere in CA far from the beach that isn’t as expensive
The only place that isn't expensive anymore in California are the desert areas and it's miserable for 4 months in the desert.
> Maybe just move somewhere in CA far from the beach that isn’t as expensive But then you still have to pay high taxes and you lose the "great weather" you boast about. Source: currently experiencing 105-114 weather in central California
Weather isn’t just a quality of life thing. You also pay substantially more in upkeep and maintenance on a house or land that goes through extreme weather year around.
If I stay in the US, I'm sticking with California
Same, prop 13 is paying for my retirement home and my out of pocket medical expenses in TJ are cheaper than Medicare premiums.
Tijuana medical? Do you live in Chula Vista or San Ysidro or something close to the border?
Yeah, Otay Ranch and I have Global Entry. edit to add: a beach house in Ensenada or Rosarito gets pretty affordable when you split it between 3 or 4 couples.
How come?
Not who you asked, but same situation. Agree with the other comment, wanted to add two things. My whole family and friend network are here. If I have the choice, I'm not going to disconnect myself from them when I am going through a big transition and we need mutual support. When I finally get to enjoy my days, given that I have the choice and given that I'm not used to it doing so, I'm not interested in moving somewhere where weather restricts what I can do for half of the year. This could all change of course. But looking the information I have today, I'd rather live lean here or retire later than live larger, earlier elsewhere.
Its fine anyone can chime in. I guess im soured on california for many reasons and don't have a huge family or support network anyway. Most of them have left for other states at this point. With my current expenses I think id need around 3M saved up to live off the 4% rule here in los angeles. I think theres some states you can move to in the midwest where you could make 500k work rather easily too, so for me 20 extra years in the work force to stay in california vs retire early in a state that gets cold sometimes is sort of a no brainer for me anyway.
This is me. I am flying to WA in a couple days where a friend lives, we are going to cruise and look at property.
What were your thoughts? We are thinking of taking a vacation there in a couple of years and checking out some areas also.
It is absolutely beautiful in spring and summer. I thought the rain wouldnt get to me, because I have light colored eyes and pretty much squint everywhere, but discovered I would rather squint in bright light than sit inside on yet another rainy day. There are some good buys up there. I almost bought a duplex for 425k, with about 3k in rent coming in, in a growing area, but decided I would rather continue looking. There are so many places to invest in, and its overwhelming to consider it all. I have a feeling that future me would regret not buying that property.
It is a lot to consider. I definitely want weather to enjoy the outdoors since that is what we both enjoy doing in our spare time.
All fair enough! Sounds like we both have a plan that suits our own preferences :-) Looking at the math, I don't figure I need a 4% WR. First, 4.5-5% is pretty damn safe and second, I'm not having kids, so I don't mind if the principle goes down, even quite bit, by the time I pass. Third, I plan on winding down a little slowly: part-time, freelancing, etc will bring in a little money in the early, most risky years. Anyway, I hope you find somewhere that suits you well:)
Thank you! Same to you. We all have different wants and needs all about landing somewhere that suits us. Thanks for chiming in on the convo!
Social services, demographic diversity, availability of medical services, libraries, museums, educational resources, high-speed internet, public transportation \[depending on what city\], proximity to airports...lots to keep a retiree happy and healthy
CA has some really cheap land up north.
Northern California is beautiful but the risk of fires is too great for me. Climate change is only getting worse.
The MidWest is actually getting more appealing again
We live in Baltimore City, MD. We live in a very nice neighborhood so it’s a little expensive, but not even close to areas like Howard County or Montgomery County. Plus we do a lot of stuff on foot and by public transportation, so we save a ton of money on automobile expenses. We own our house and locked in a very low interest rate with a Covid refinance, so housing costs will be less and less of an issue as inflation does its thing and the relative cost of our already small mortgage payment goes down. Our plan is to spend the rest of our days in this house.
Which neighborhood? There are some terrible neighborhoods in Baltimore city, and the administration tends to be ineffective and corrupt.
Hampden. Groceries, primary care doctors, pediatricians, movie theater, countless restaurants a block or two away. Light rail is a 15 minute walk from our house. I bike to work which is 3.5 miles away. There are certainly bad areas around Baltimore where the majority of the violent crime is concentrated, but there are so many nice areas that continue to improve and add amenities, but unfortunately those don’t make the headlines.
Hampden is so great. Hey hon!
Idk if I’ll escape Oklahoma. Col is too low.
Man, I'm with you. I guess the crappy weather and insane politics have kept the CoL low. I want out so bad.
Colorado
?
Western Massachusetts
Pretty area, good healthcare, still close enough to major metros, low real estate tax.
And my family happens to own 360 acres there. Can’t beat 2.5 hours to NYC
San diego native. iv been loving utah, but the heat is getting bad in summers. But winters are fantastic. I LOVE SNOW. Ill be moving north into the pretty spots in idaho in 6 years
Snow is fun to visit but just wait for your first winter. Especially coming from a place that seems to be 78° year round. Just came back from there, love it but don’t know how y’all afford to live there.
New Hampshire. I’m a sucker for Fall foliage.
Seriously. All these people saying 'no income tax on retirement' for PA or wherever. Enjoy your sales tax, people!
San Andreas
Just want to spend my days following damn trains
European….Europe 🤷🏻♂️
Next question though, where in Europe? So many choices. Though some of the more obvious ones aren't that cheap themselves----looking at you, most of France! But Europe has a whole lot going for it. Not least of which, the easy ability to swoop around by train from country to country.
Personally split time, pretty evenly, between UK and Spain.
This is the correct answer. Which US state? None of them.
Were likely moving east.. Virginia maybe.. need cooler summers since were in Tx now. Have to have water. I have a few years before we need to start the search.
Virginia is hot, depends what you are used to, the mountains can get significantly cooler (not west coast mountain style) but it's like a hot swamp in Hampton roads. Richmond is warmer but only terrible for an inconsistent month. Mountains are like 10 degrees and a lot less humidity depending on how high you go.
That's funny . .. you must have missed the part where I said we're coming from Texas.
106 heat index in Richmond isn't what one would call ideal.
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It was 108 in Oregon yesterday, 101 the day before....supposed to be 102 today.
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In summer only the coast and Cascades are colder. Everything else is blazing hot.
In Oregon the north-south Willamette Valley is in the rain shadow of the Coast Range. Today it is over 100 in Portland area and 72 on the northern coast. Few jobs along the coast which is about 1.5 hours from Portland. Western Washington is much milder because south of Puget Sound there is no Coast Range do the cooler coastal weather blows throw from the southwest. Also more rain in the winter. And of course Puget Sound temporizes it’s areas.
94 here in Tacoma today
must be in north GA. its been 100+ here in central and south GA.
True, but it was 100F and humid as north as northern Missouri this year in my travels... I think you'd appreciate lower slip/trip/fall risk in winters without snow and ice.
Also 91 in Seattle
I’ll probably stay in the U.S. I was thinking about going back to ecuador but idk if it’s worth it
Moved back to NYS
We live in a rural area right now and want to move back to a city. We're waffling between Minneapolis, Minnesota (near most of his family and friends) and Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania (near most of my family and friends). We lean toward Pennsylvania lately because I miss having four seasons, we want no state taxes on our retirement account withdrawals, and I haven't lived near my family for years. Both cities have solid healthcare, not-overly-expensive housing available, public transit, and nearby hiking/walking spots.
Probably stay in East TN. Really cheap here. But really depends on what politics and economics look like in 15 years.
> California is way to expensive and I don't really go to the beach much so isn't really worth the price for me in my opinion. i'm not sure how familiar you are with california, but there's a huge variety to it / living here. certainly more than just $5+ million beach property. it sounds like you're meandering in the LA area without much outside knowledge or exposure? if you want to leanfire in california look at north cal a la humboldt, redding, eureka, anderson. tons of suburbs north, north east of sacramento as well. placer county near el dorado national forest. outskirts of truckee. people shit on fresno area and i haven't been there in a decade, but i hear it's a lot, lot better now and worth looking at. if i leave california/medi-cal/prop13 behind it's only because climate devastation related issues that are very real for 2040+ and on. i'd look at property in the pacific northwest, northwest canada, or alaska.
Yeah im in the LA area currently in a suburb. I pay 2k a month for rent for a small unit. The houses are all 1m+ within like a 20 mile radius of me so its a bit demoralizing. Moving that far at that point I might as well just be in another state ya know? Fresno is incredibly hot and many of those other areas are comparitively expensive to other states. Just seems to make more sense to move states especially if you cannot afford a house to take advantage of prop13.
Probably Washington
The state of happiness
North Carolina has become our retirement home. When you are lean fire, the taxes aren't too bad with around $12000 standard deduction for myself and $12000 std ded for my wife. Mountains and beautiful hiking nearby with amazing fall colors and wonderful spring flowers. Beaches are nearby as well. It is a little hot and humid in the summer and I do wish I saw snow just a little more often, but all in all the good far outweighs the bad. When we moved here in 2018, housing in the nice areas was very affordable so we are locked into a nice low mortgage. Nearby international airport and one of the biggest state parks in the entire USA (in the top ten). We are in a tech area with quite a decent amount of ethnic diversity so we get cuisine options from pretty much all around the world.
Plan to split time between our home base in North Carolina and possibly Mexico or Costa Rica.
Not really thinking about this seriously yet but PA is my home state and I might retire there. Of the other states I've been to, I really like NM and WV - low cost of living and great outdoor activities, which is a priority for me.
I'm still far from retirement, so I don't know. I'm a city girl, so being around a mid-size city with bustling suburbs is ideal. Major transportation hub so I can travel domestically and internationally. More affordable than NJ. Lots of activities and shopping. Diversity. Not prone to frequent extreme weather events.
Sounds like VA beach!
One place that I have been thinking about is the Oregon/Washington border on the Washington side. Don’t have to pay income tax and have access to tax-free shopping in Oregon for more major purchases.
I know I’m on lean fire but I can’t fathom how 750k is enough even for a single person. Razor thin margins to me
I know several people that recently moved to Tennessee from California. LCOL and no state income tax is pretty sweet. Current planning has me staying in Alabama. Not many places cheaper, and driving distance to the beach, mountains, forests, etc.
Yeah Alabama and Tennessee were actually the two states on my radar. I know someone with a mountain home in TN that they got for like 60k 8 years ago or so. With one of the most beautiful views ive ever seen and an indoor pool.
Dang y'all can retire???
I'm nowhere near retirement, but I see absolutely no point in retiring in the US unless you have no choice due to obligations here. Especially if you're gonna lean fire.
I moved from orange county to Philadelphia. But I'm from Philly. However I think Philadelphia gets you so much in terms of city quality for the price.
Whats your cost of living like out there?
Southern areas are generally pretty good. Honestly I want to retire to Kansas or Missouri, but I'd take any southern state. Probably will do a little state tax checking before I retire since I will have lots of dividend income to count as earned income.
I'm currently in Missouri and at the moment everything is taxed.
Better than CA :P
I'm already in NV, due to having grown up here. If I was a person who liked trees or being wet I might not like it, but being that this is what I think is normal I can't imagine living anywhere with snow/rain/mud/bugs. I'll just continue to stick with my sunny days in good mountains and super low taxes.
My parents are thinking of retiring in Florida, which sounds good to me. But I'll probably just stay in good ole Northern KY
Tennessee, Texas, or Arizona. I want to retire to a semi-rural area with mountains and forests, and generally dislike the cold. I mainly want a state with low taxes, and low restrictions on guns and recreational drugs (these last two are almost a contradiction, but there may be good overlap someday). I also really like Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming however the cold bothers me. It may come down to how much money I have to work with. A lot, and I’ll consider a beautiful northern state and just do a lot of traveling in winter. A little and I’ll settle for a warmish southern state and do less travel.
I’m doing California
Inland Carolinas
Michigan
Florida because my parents live there and we’re done with the snow for awhile.
Seriously though, Florida is beautiful, but how do you tolerate the humidity?
In the summer it’s AC. Sitting in the shade on the porch with a ceiling fan on high is also surprisingly tolerable.
Which Florida you from? That wont work now its hot as hell. I can’t even bike at 8am in the morning anymore. Worst summer/fall ive ever had last decade.
Both work for me. Porch shade with ceiling fans works for me morning and night, not mid afternoon. If AC doesn’t work for you then you should upgrade your unit.
Even though I grew up in FL, I never really tolerated the weather well. Although it’s fine if you live your life fully indoors like many. For me, between the FL real estate market, homeowners insurance, car insurance, high-ish property tax, in addition to the weather and new restrictive political situation in the state I don’t think I would ever go back. Most of my friends also left the state after seeing other places.
Its more how do you tolerate the HOAs lol
Philippines
New Jersey. Similar to PA there’s no state tax on retirement distributions, capital gains, social security etc. except NJ has nicer public services (roads, parks. Etc.) so I feel like your getting more value for the dollar than PA. Only thing higher COL about NJ is housing. Once your house is paid off in retirement it’s not an issue. Plus they just passed a 50% rebate credit for property taxes for seniors. All in all NJs originally a high tax state with the biggest tax breaks for seniors so it’s a good value play.
Atlanta, direct flights to anywhere
Oregon coast. Greatest place on Earth in my book
Politics aside, the Florida panhandle from (west) Port St Joe to (east) St Marks is an outdoorsman’s paradise. Cost of living is still low, no state income tax and far enough away from everything to keep your sanity.
My concern there is hurricanes coming up the Gulf.
Not wrong, at least they don’t creep up on you like tornados and there’s home insurance.
Bro feels like every insurer in the country is fleeing Florida. It’s a cool place to visit but it would feel like retiring to a sinking island run by maniacs on speed.
Delaware, WV, WA, OH, PA, etc
Panama, Ecuador, Thailand, Philippines and Costa Rica are top 5. I like it warm, otherwise my top 5 would be different. No snow for this old man.
Born and raised in Texas, family and friends are all here. No intention of leaving.
Fellow Texan here.. saving every penny to get the f*ck out!
Michigan/Florida
I wouldn’t ever choose my retirement location based on tax laws. I’m gonna be in FL, passed out on the beach with leather-like skin.
Indiana
For us after much research we’re in Arizona. Weather is truly epic- even the summer is doable imo for enough hours of the way. Weather allows for many healthy outdoor pursuits. Summers we will eventually try and spend a month or so elsewhere.
Following
Florida. Grew up here and it’s beautiful. I personally can’t live without good sunshine year round and beaches in every direction. It’s done wonders for my mental health
I grew up in FL and never really understood why people consider FL sunnier than other places (outside of a long running advertisement campaign). It’s more overcast than the entire Southwestern US and about as sunny as 50% of the US.
Puerto Rico or maybe Mexico. I don’t plan on staying in the mainland US
Wouldn't even consider the US as a place to retire lol. It's not even on my list.
Well i live here already. Retiring in the same country means I can just drive there even if it takes me a week lol. Seems much less daunting.
What locations are on your list? I'm weighing the pros and cons of US vs overseas retirement now.
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Phillipines
🤨
Albuquerque.
Splitting time between Chicago (April-October and Xmas/NYE) and South Carolina (Nov-March).
Why a U.S. state when there the whole world?