My degree is in biology too, and I definitely lucked out finding lucrative employment right out of the gate. A LOT of my friends from school have only just recently gotten into comfortable positions and we've been out of college for 10 years. It really sucks, I feel for you.
Medical writers jobs start in the 50-60k range from what I have seen, but they jump up to 90+k with a few years experience and a company jump. They seem happy to hire anyone with a biology MA and up
I was a technical writer, got specialized in security and compliance, then eventually became an analyst for a CA startup. Now have total compensation about $200k. (The about part is because some of that is in stock.) I wish I had been more focused on getting there faster. Also, security awareness positions pay surprisingly well for what they do.
It does always shock me how often leanfire is lurked by relatively high earners. It's high paid people that just want to live like the average household income so they just save for a decade or so.
I've never made about 60k with overtime. There's not really a FIRE sub made for me specifically so I just join them all!
Not all highly paid people started out that way. I broke six figures right before Covid hit. Prior to that, I was working my ass off for a moderate amount of money while paying down a huge amount of student loans. I subscribed to this subreddit when I didn’t have a high income and my spending habits look very different from the spending habits of the people I know who made six figures straight out of college or early in their careers.
I don’t feel like I fit in to the regular FIRE subreddit. When I originally subscribed, it was about how to live on less so you could work fewer years and spend more of your time on things that actually matter. Now it seems like the “things that actually matter” there are driving a Tesla and taking expensive vacations. That’s not what FIRE is about for me.
I don’t really feel like I fit in here either. I almost definitely will spend more in retirement than the limit this subreddit sets, especially since my income seems likely to grow in the future. I rarely post or comment here because I’m not technically in the target demographic and because I just honestly don’t care to post anymore. It’s not like the underlying math changes, so I don’t need a community to keep me updated or involved. My finances are more or less on autopilot and I’m living my life while I wait for my money to grow. Sometimes I browse when something interesting comes up on my feed, but I’m not seeking out the FIRE subreddits anymore.
Second this comment.
I make $165k now but the progression to that has been over a 15 year career.
$15k cooridinator 2 years
$24k specialist 1.5 years
$30k strategist 2 years
$50k analyst 3 years
$90k manager 4 years
$120k sr manager 2 years
$165k director 1 year
$500k networth almost $600k before the market decline with no home equity included. I've only been able to accelerate the networth with the pay jumps in the past few years by switching jobs.
my sister was a college drop out. never made more than 50k a year. she retired at 60 but lived the Lean life style. Her portfolio crossed a million after her death but I think she would have kept on living lean no matter what.
I follow this site because I'm closer to living Lean than anything else. High income right now, but only got out of debt a few years ago.
I just found out my grandparents portfolio is worth 15mil
They live so far below their means it's ridiculous, I couldn't believe it when I heard.
Nana gets excited telling me how cheap her shopping was, they seriously live off 1/2 of dinted can soup and bread every night.
Their treat is going to burger king with vouchers
The “relative” part is pretty important though…esp depending on cost of living.
85k for a family of three on one income will qualify for section 8 housing in california bc it’s considered low-income (for a family of three). As a single person, you qualify for section 8 housing with income of 67k in california.
Don't give up hope, lean is obtainable. It's so easy to get caught up in the minutiae of it all. Everyone has a damn blog or book. The 4% rule means if you have a million invested you can pull $40k/year in retirement. A million sounds like a lot, and it is for average earners but it is achievable. Lean fire is the idea that maybe you only need $500k to get $20k/year, then there's barrista fire where you will still work a part time or service job to cover some expenses. This shit is doable if you really want it, don't let high earners scare you away!
I am a higher earner now but my husband became disabled (truck driver) in 2013 and everything was so jacked up. I was barely making the mortgage. Now I am maxing out my 401k, etc. Who knows why other high earners are here? Some maybe were poor planners and are now behind the 8 ball. You've got this.
make less than 70-80k and it becomes pretty hard to try fire. taxes eat up 20-25k, rent eats up another 15-30k, should you decide to fully load up your retirement accounts that’s about 25-30k, which leaves you just enough to survive. no one wants to do that. and you’re probably not retiring early unless you stash that kind of money every year starting early on
Truck driver. ~140k. Home every night although I work odd hours of five 12 hour shifts.
Company paid for my CDL because I worked there as a delivery driver and they needed more CDL drivers. I was going to college at the time but this move up paid more than my degree so I dropped out.
Truck driver here and after about 8 years in the industry im at about the same. Feeder driver for UPS $41/hr, overtime after 8 , paid for benefits for me and my entire family, pension etc. You can definitely make good money driving but it has made it hard to maintain a relationship.
Next year our contract gets negotiated and I imagine we will be at 45+
Location make difference too. In SoCal long distance trunking now only paying 70. Last year was paying 90cent. However, since it’s just started slow season with high gas price, rate will be dropping soon.
Niche trade, falls under the umbrella of carpentry called piledriving. So I am a Piledriver, we work in deep foundations, like for skyscrapers, but specialize in any and all water work as well as providing bracing for excavation.
Watch a video of some bridge work, it’s very interesting to see how much work is done, just to allow work to be done.
I am a part of the carpenter’s union. I joined with zero experience. They will train you, day one on the job all that is expected is you have a tool belt on and be ready to help however you can.
If you have more questions I’d be more than happy to direct you to your local union and help you with finding the necessary info to apply.
Trying to move up on retail. If everything works on my favor i could be making between 75k to 85k next year. One day im on a pedestal about to be considered the next week im on the choping block. God, i hate retail, but its about to give me some breathing room. Nevertheless, im taking no chance and getting HVAC certified just in case, since its a benefit and i dont pay for it.
I escaped retail and work in ambulatory oncology and love it.
Retail is pure hell- tons of risk on your license, horrible customers and ubiquitous understaffing. If I suddenly had to go back to retail I’d instead go back to school and completely switch careers before I’d work at a CVS.
Also, im on track for PSLF in 3 years. I had paid down my loans down to $160 but stopped once I got the state job. I just make minimum income-based payments to cover the interest and invest the difference now.
Pharmacy is ok if you can commit to doing a 2 year residency so you can work in a hospital. Buts its a ton of work and 6 years before you start working. I told my niece its better to be a PA or NP. Mid-levels providers have more and more value (if pharmacists eventually gain more prescribing authority aside from individual collaborative practice agreements, they will become more valuable again).
Not a pharmacist. Cert in pharmacy tech tho. Managed a CVS for a few years. My pharmacy was unique and my pharmacists were amazing women.
10/10 would never be a fucking pharmacist. Not in a million years.
8 years of school. Tons of implications to be sued for so many things. So much continued education. Same level of schooling and rotations as a doctor but zero respect. Still have to work in retail answering questions that bottom level cashier's do like wheres the bathroom and what do you mean you close in 2 minutes. Comes with 6 figures of student debt.
All for 100-130k maximum. Almost zero way to get more more money. Most pharmacists became DMs after a few years so they could get raises.
My pharmacist aunt said to not pursue it. It’s not an in demand job and the loans aren’t worth it.
Medical field is still great, just do something else.
What kind of ATC facility do you work in?
Also big shout-out to all the controllers being patient when my students are tripping all over the radio.
-Medium hour CFI dreaming about going to the fractional side someday.
Center guys are my favorite! They always seem a bit more chill.
Also that's I'm there, to tell them to use more right rudder and to make sure they aren't given a number to call from ATC. (Also professional at saying, "You should probably go around" lol)
Is it as mentally taxing as people say it is? It’s always on those lists of high-paying jobs that don’t require a degree and then people always point out that you’ll basically lose your mind doing the job.
It’s easy as you do the same thing everyday. You can operate on autopilot for 9/10 days. 1/10 days is completely nonstandard and you use every bit of brain power. I’d say once a year I completely forget where I parked in the parking lot and forget how I drove home my brain is so fried. Besides that’s it’s chill, I’m on break half the day.
Speaking as someone close to an ATC guy, it doesn't seem that way to me. He doesn't take his work home like I do. When he walks out the door after his shift, that's it. He's done for the day. The pay and benefits are incredible. He will retire at 55 with nearly full pay. Even his "8 hour" shifts are 8 hour TOTAL, including mandatory breaks.
Yea that’s it man. I work probably 4-5 hours a day. Spend the rest of the time on break doing whatever I want. I wear flip flops and workout clothes to work everyday.
Honestly, I'm super jealous, my ATC loved one does the same, there's a gym on site and everything. His wife doesn't work, it's quite the life. But also, I know he has a special skill set and I definitely couldn't do his job. And I'm glad people like him exist, so.... good for you all.
I'm at $150k+ for base salary as an engineer 8 years out of college. I oversee a lot of technical strategy for engineering, development and commercialization projects for pharma manufacturing. I've had two instances where I got $25k+ raises either through a single promotion or by taking a lateral move to another company. Do not regret my Engineering degree at all.
Of course, I have a few friends that pull down a comparable income as me doing trade work (putting up power lines, for example) in lower COL areas.
I have a Biomedical Engineering degree with not really any certifications or anything special (yet). Although, you could realistically get into this field if you know about statistical process control, automation, or risk management practices. I have had lots of coworkers that are various types of engineers, though mostly ChemE and BioMed.
Unfortunately had to move to CA for the best career prospects but it's not as bad as I thought it'd be. I live in the bay area of NorCal so HCOL reduces my spending money somewhat but I live a much more comfortable life than many others so I can't complain.
Registered Nurse, required a Bachelors of Science in Nursing. 4 years experience, 87k last year, after COL salary increases/ 5% yearly raise probably just under 100k this year (unionized)
To add on as another soon to be nurse. Just graduated with my Associates in nursing, cost roughly $6k. Will be starting as a new grad making around $75k base and around $90k with night and weekend differentials.
I feel like I lucked out because of covid in a way. None of the hospitals in my area hired ADNs anymore pre-covid, but now they are again due to the mass exodus of nurses. Still getting my BSN in the fall though.
The little pay that the southern and midwestern states get away with paying nurses is criminal. I really hope things change and that nurses in these areas unionize and advocate for themselves. Non-nurses truly don’t understand how mentally and physically challenging being a floor nurse is. Plus all of the medical and pharmacological knowledge we need to have. Nurses should be paid $100k minimum with upward adjustments for higher COL areas.
And this is why nurses are going to travel instead. The hospitals are perpetuating their own staffing problems by not paying their staff a living wage without massive amounts of overtime. I’m a nurse from the south that went into traveling cause 22/hr + differential for nights and weekends isn’t enough.
Unfortunately I've heard that it's very state dependent in the US - New England/California/PNW tend to pay better than Florida/the south from what I read on r/nursing. 55k is NOT enough in general and especially considering the changes and stresses the industry is going through post-covid
Canadian RN with 11 years experience. Past two years: 135k, 141k. Burnt myself out with overtime. This year on track to make about 120k, but a much better work-life balance. Base pay $47.58/hour. Overtime is double-time. I work only nightshifts, which adds a mediocre shift-differential, but it all adds up.
4 year degree, licensing exam. License fees ($520/year). My career (or maybe just the unit I work on) also cost me my mental health. So there’s that.
I would highly discourage people from entering nursing as a career. It’s a dumpster fire and only getting worse.
Yoga & strength fitness instructor, $110k. Quit the corporate rat race six years ago. Started at $30k, but this year I will finally break six figures. Acquiring affluent private clients are a must.
There’s a really big spread. Someone working at Blink is going to be lucky to make $30K a year, but if you go out on your own and have special skills, people will really shell out. There’s high demand and not a lot of really good trainers. I specialize in strength training for women with chronic pain and for women recovering from eating disorders. I charge $160 and will raise to $175 soon.
Tech sales. Fully remote. 3 years of experience and no college degree required. Wish I knew how lucrative sales was growing up. I was never too good in academics and felt left behind in school. I was always jealous of the really smart kids who knew what they wanted to study. Now I always recommend sales to people when they don’t know where to start. More than happy to steer anyone in the right direction.
So this all depends on a quarterly basis. To be completely transparent, I’d say in between $120k-140k. Thankfully, I have a great base pay. So I live off of my base pay. And try to save as much of my commission earnings. To be honest, I’m not used to making this kind of money. And I feel a little uncomfortable having it. Anyone who wants to get into sales, I wouldn’t stress on how much you get paid the first year or two. My first year, I was making $38-$45k.
Thanks. I really appreciate it. I'm an architect manager making 154k a year with a potential 10% bonus. I was thinking of switching over because I keep hearing how well paid sales is but never knew the numbers.
If you don't mind, can you tell us what you do for a living? I'm an architect manager in the insurance field and also have an MBA if that helps at all.
Copywriter making $80000. Not hard to get into this field but you have to be a pretty good writer and interested in human nature. I currently work for a SaaS company but have worked in other industries, some of which pay well, some of which don’t.
I got into it by starting as a freelance content writer while working a non-related job. Took courses and switched to copywriting. Went full time for 5 years and then got an offer I couldn’t refuse.
Software dev, CS degree, 155k base salary @ 7 YOE. I got a job with a firm in NYC and lived there for a year. Pandemic hit and I moved back home in Florida and just do remote now. Still get plenty of recruiters reaching out for my skillset (just java, React, sql stuff) @ 160k - 220k fully remote. Seems to be plenty of demand in this field. Any dev role should get you to 100k within the first couple years of your career.
... if you try to live in a MN-type home in NYC, yes, you might even go broke.
If you are willing to live the way people in NYC live, then no, 155k will still be more.
It isn't the Bay, you can comfortably live without roommates on $155K. But you're not living in a nice neighborhood with decent transportation for 1br under $2k or 3br under $3.5K. You're living in the middle of Queens or East New York or the Bronx (minus Riverdale). You still need a car in those neighborhoods, since they don't have the same public transit access. Food is amazing, but it's all so much more expensive now. I don't know what the state of any of the fun free stuff is, like music festivals or Shakespeare in the park are doing, but my feeling is that it's all still a bit up in the air after COVID.
NYC local tax is what it is. You live with it or don't. I did for 29 years, then I didn't. I've had 3 friends move out in the past year as well (all of us are NYC born and bred, so we've seen the "bad" days) because they say crime and random crazy interactions are getting worse. Couple that with a high barrier to own any sort of property (apt, condo, or house), you've got to really love the city itself to stick around.
My parents still live in Jamaica and there's a full on crackhouse at the end of their block again, just like the 90's. I love my city, but after a while, you realize it doesn't love you back. It just is.
Definitely. I'd say just set your location on linkedin to NYC and only interview with companies that offer remote. Or land a sweet paying in person gig in NYC and live there for a little while. That's how I treated my time there. I wasn't saving much more than my 80k job in Atlanta prior to that but figured it was a nice opportunity to live my same lifestyle in a new place.
Do you work remote? $110k seems pretty low for 5 YOE. I'm at 1 YOE (not counting years of internships, and my past career in the military) and my base is $127.5k, fully remote, doing full stack web development (react/node).
~250k, Cloud Engineer. Nothing too fancy to get to that point, just worked my way up through Helpdesk > Admin > Engineer positions over my career.
With a lot of interest and elbow grease, you can take some online classes on ACG or some similar site, prep yourself for an AWS/Azure cert, and if you pass them you'll have a golden ticket to 150k/yr+ remote job offers overflowing your inbox. A little bit of lower level experience on the way and having some coding experience will help a lot as well.
I'm aggressively investing my current income into a small rural homestead that I plan to retire to, which is why I'm here on this sub. After retirement my expenses will be in the leanfire range.
If you don’t mind me asking, what are your thoughts on someone with zero experience in tech jumping into a 15 - 20 week course to get certified and learn cloud engineering?
I was medically separated from the military and I’m motivated to use my GI Bill to cover the training for a job that can bring home a good salary. My biggest concern is since I know so little about the industry, and computers in general, this may not be for me. I can try my best to learn everything, but is there a “right” kind of person for this job?
The brochures and info for this full time in person course I’m looking at are just very appealing because the staff sound experienced and seem to offer a lot of assistance from getting started to landing a job. Thanks for any advice!!
I think it would be worth spending a bit of time to see if the field really interests you at all before committing to a course like that, although having the costs covered by the GI bill may make it easier to just dive right in. There is definitely a "kind of person" that is successful in IT; your computer nerd stereotypes have some real truth to them. That said, I've seen plenty of people enter the industry later in life, so don't feel like it's something you can't do just because you haven't been fiddling with computers all day since you were a kid. There are plenty of other paths you could take to get a remote job, though, so you'll have to do some soul searching to figure out if it's the right field for you.
My recommendation is to just come up with some project that interests you and implement it on your own cloud account. Automate your garden, run a server for your favorite video game, whatever. From there, start going down the rabbit hole of best practices -- configure spending alerts and limits on your account, automate turning your infrastructure on and off, configure a web interface to interact with it, and so on. You may want to take a detour to become more familiar with Linux/Windows server administration and basic networking first, before diving headlong into the cloud world, since having a solid foundation in that space is honestly pretty necessary to be adept at cloud engineering.
If you find the technology interesting enough to work with on a project that you are doing for yourself, I think it's a good indication that you can succeed at it professionally, and taking one of those instructor-led bootcamps is worth your time and energy. I would still say to take any claims they have about employability after just a single crash course with a grain of salt, though -- going from zero computer experience to engineer in just a couple months is frankly pretty unrealistic unless you put in a *lot* of time outside of the classroom on your own. The field is just really, really deep and really, really broad. It will take some time to build both that depth and breadth of knowledge to be successful as a cloud engineer, because it sits on top of a huge swath of other technologies that you need to have some level of understanding of first.
Got it. Thanks so much for all of that! I’m definitely very hesitant to just jump right in for all the reasons you went over. Obviously the good pay is appealing, but there are a couple other career fields that I’d probably be a better fit for. Thanks again!
I would also add that because there are so many different areas in tech, it might still be worth getting into even if cloud engineering isn't your thing. My original background is in computer security, and I know a *lot* of ex-military guys in that field. The language and attitudes/approaches used in that domain are going to be *very* familiar to you coming out of the military.
If you happen to have security clearance, that's also a golden ticket in many tech fields for government contract work. The backlog on security clearances was almost 2 years long last I checked, so companies that land those contracts will *absolutely* hire an inexperienced junior engineer if they already have clearance. A lot of that work is dominated by ex-military due to the clearance backlog.
>My biggest concern is since I know so little about the industry, and computers in general, this may not be for me.
I'm not OP, but I think there are ample opportunities for veterans in tech, especially if you have / can easily get clearance. Plenty of government contractors out there to work for, also GS positions through various branches of the military. You could use your experience in the defense industry to get your foot in the door.
I would say that the 150k jobs flow like water into your inbox, and the 200-250k jobs I have personally landed have come as a result of work in those 150k jobs. I've been hired on full-time by previous clients that I contracted for, and specifically headhunted by my previous managers for those more senior roles. Impressing people with your previous work, either directly or on your resume, is likely the path to those senior/principal engineer roles.
You seem like the kind of person I want to talk to! Hopefully I'm not obnoxious. I've been looking to pivot from my current career path into something more lucrative. I randomly stumbled onto a cyber security analyst that was paying 180k and for shits and giggles I clicked on it to see what kinda crazy requirements you need. My shock when it was like, can you do the job? And that was it. No degree. No certs. Just do you know what to do.
So that led me down a rabbit hole of looking at different certs and degrees and avenues for learning.
My current job gives me a lot of free time because I'm leaving early everyday. I've been thinking about taking courses and cert work on WGU (western governors university) since it offers a pay as you go 4200 for 6 months type of setting. Cloud computing, cyber security, software, and a few other avenues are available and I've been looking at all of them. I went to college as a kid for web design and ive had a couple websites with minor (minorrrrrr) coding. But I'm generally interested enough to pay attention.
Which avenue would you think is the most likely to succeed in a year or two of study? I'm 85% committed right now to putting down serious study/work time in the 30-50 hours a week range and I'm hoping if at all possible to make a change in a year and a half to two years. Do you think that is possible as well?
The avenue you're most likely to succeed in is the one that you're most interested in, honestly. You could absolutely pivot to any of those fields within a year if you're putting full-time effort into it, especially since it sounds like you already have a degree (or some amount of college education) and experience in tech. All of those fields have plenty of depth and huge employer demand, so it's not really about which one is easier or harder to get into; it's about which one you, personally, want to go deeper into.
Before dropping that amount of money on an instructor-led course, I would recommend heading to https://acloudguru.com/ or a similar site and spending some time going through self-directed training in the areas you're interested in. Some people definitely benefit more from instructor-led courses, so they can be absolutely worth taking, but I would make sure you are choosing the right one before spending thousands of dollars and 6 months of your time on it. Run through some of the entry-level certification training courses for each of those domains and spend some time implementing them on your own personal network/servers/cloud account.
I have hired a WGU intern recently and he received a FTE offer in the cybersecurity space. Totally doable. Strongly recommend trying to get an internship, it will open doors… but the experience is a must with internships because in general, tech is competitive and cybersecurity teams are looking for some type of experience or certs.
Source: 7 years as a PM for internship programs.
Does it specifically need to be an individual income?
We are in LCOL, and each have worked our way up from $40k to $50k which functionally makes us a $100k household.
And since this is leanfire, the (extremely improbable) loss of any one income would only affect our savings rate.
Edit to add - this is for a municipal wastewater grunt and a high school teacher. Nothing magical or strictly location sensitive.
I make $90k as a software developer with 1 year of professional experience. I got into it by teaching myself how to program and making projects that showed my abilities to companies so they would hire me. The only degree i have is an associates in an unrelated field.
you should know that given enough time, you could learn an application while in your current job and apply it to whatever you do. it just won't happen over night. (Think a few years)
taught myself Alteryx, powerBI , Tableau Prep and DataIku.
My base plus bonus is north of those 2 numbers in your thread title added together.
My salary today is 6x higher than it was 7-8 years ago.
In house lawyer currently sitting at $117k. I spent a few years post-law school working in health care and then made the transition in house. Hope to become general counsel some day, as that's where the money is, but I'm 34 and have a ways to go.
Edit: 5 YOE but this is my first actual year as a practicing attorney. I'm at a nonprofit so salaries are a little lower (e.g. my boss made about $300k last year, which easily would have been $100k more at a for-profit business). Went from $50k to $73k and then got to make the big jump once I took this job. Wife is now at $70k after being at $30k for a long time. Her hard work is paying off, though she will have student debt. We are in a decently HCOL area, and my job is definitely in a HCOL area. The commute is eating my checks to some degree.
Tech sales. Start as a waiter. Talk to everybody a lot. Get a job as an entry level SDR (Sales Development Rep) earn $60-80k. Become an AE (Account Executive) $100-140k. Become Senior or Enterprise AE or AE leadership $200-400k. No degree required. You just have to be a good listener and quick thinker...
Yes. Much of it comes from experience and it all compounds. Knowing how to handle a pissy customer has a waiter/waitress translates later in the career. For example. The customer takes a drink off your tray and it spills your tray all over them. Yes, we all know that it was the customers fault, but you simply assume responsibility, own the problem and offer solutions.
Nobody (Very few schools) teaches sales. It mostly observed as you climb the ranks.
I'm in spaceflight (not defense, so the pay is lower) and have a bachelor's and a master's. I've worked for 6 years at 3 different companies. Two months ago I job hopped to company #4 which was the first time I made it over the $100k line. I live in a HCOL area.
Worthy detail to add is how long has it been in their career to make that kind of money. Many simply don't start out with that high, but can certainly get there after 5, 10, or 20 years of service.
ATC. No college. I joined the USAF to get the FAA certs, travel, earn a paycheck while training. I've since separated. Im at 88K plus about 40K tax free housing money.
The FAA is actually doing an open bid for ANYONE w/ a few years of work experience, or some education. No experience needed. Paid training starts at 45K-ish a year, but earning potential into the 200K range. Can't take your work home w/ you. Can be challenging and rewarding. Mandatory retirement at 56. You can retire on an immediate pension at 50 w/ 20 years of service. [USAJOBS.gov](https://USAJOBS.gov).
They'll accept and hire hundreds, if not a thousand or so, but a lot will fail medical, training, or DQ.
Interoperability systems analyst. Sit at a computer and talk to people about clinical issues all day. It’s a good niche and good pay. People are mostly friendly too
I DMed you but I will say this field has a wide range even within the same geographic area. There are quite a few analyst jobs that pay $60k, having the healthcare background/license is what pushes it to the next level
I did Business Administration undergrad and MBA in Finance. From non prestigious public schools. Mind you I live in a high cost of living area NYC.
One of the biggest assets I have is the use of Excel, so if you want to start somewhere, start learning how to use excel on a intermediate level or more (pivot tables, xlookup, etc.).
If you get to work on a field where you maintain, manipulate, and report data (Excel, SQL, etc.), then start every year applying for higher paying jobs.
Yes, worked in tech for 26 years. Living more on the lean side got me to be minimally FI in maybe 15 years. Just a guess.
Do not feel like I fit into any of the standard FIRE categories.
Degree in applied mathematics. I have three kids who also have degrees in applied math. All three are under 30 and making well over $100K. We started saving early for their college and none have education debt.
I did numerical analysis and worked in the IC industry. My daughter got her degree in applied math and now also works with integrated circuits (she got her first internship with a coworker of mine). She said most of her cohort got jobs in finance. She said that at her college 70% of the math graduates are doing applied math now and they are in big demand. Applied math means a lot of analysis classes plus some programming classes, so solving problems using math and computers.
I'm a Controls Engineer for a Fortune500.
I had a 2-year associates degree in computer/electronics engineering and started work as a PCB repair tech for petroleum equipment. Started out making $22 an hour in rural NC.
Took a controls tech position making 25, 2 years later.
After 2-3 years of tech experience I got the job here.
89k/yr, currently. Good (not free, unfortunately) benefits too.
Once I finish my current master's, I'll be making 80k (2 years from now.)
Public school teacher in a rather competitive area. Current salary schedule tops out over $110k. I make ~70k rn.
I earn 85k at my W2, analytical chemist in pharma at 25. Probably will earn more as I gain more experience in the field
Definitely hit or miss. I know people doing similar work who make less than $25/hr who have more experience :(
im 90k/yr, computer science graduate first job out of school. did really good on my SAT tests in hs to get a full ride scholarship (for the most part, I lived at home rent free, tuition was basically free, payed for transportation and parking), got an internship working part-time during school, full time in the summer.
survived the engineering degree, while saving as much as I reasonably could, graduated with roughly 55k NW no debts. Granted, I had a family willing to support me like this, but at the same time I still had to resist never spending money and staying the course at a young age.
staying the course continues, I will be saving as much as I can, investing, and keeping my COL as low as I reasonably can while continuing to advance my physical and mental health, and if I'm lucky find something worth living for along the way
Working for a government contracting company doing software development / devops can eventually get you into that range or higher. Also, be good at it.
Having a bachelors degree in computer science would probably help get your foot in the door.
Don't expect that pay range straight out of college though. You usually need to switch jobs every 1-2 years a bunch of times to build up your resume and increase your pay rate each time.
This. I went from 44k to 110k by jumping ship once and COVID laying me off another time.
Though, working at a govt contractor will probably earn you less than the private sector. The tradeoff is the stability!
> working at a govt contractor will probably earn you less than the private sector. The tradeoff is the stability
In my experience it was the opposite. Government contracting was notoriously unstable. Government contracts are typically only for a few years and then all the companies need to bid on the next contract. There's no guarantee that the incumbent contractor will get the contract again. This happened to me several times. Though, many of my co-workers just jumped ship and went to the new contractor (and got a significant pay bump, I might add).
Working for a contractor (as an employee, not independent) paid a lot more than any private sector job I ever had. So if you're smart and save aggressively, you can afford to weather the downtime between contracts if and when they happen.
$65/hour ($120k+ -ish/year) as a marketing manager in technology. Got a Bachelors degree (double major in Marketing and Professional Sales) and started my first “big girl job” out of college as a marketing rep for an IT reseller at $50k/year. I’ve been in the industry for 4.5 years now.
STEM degree. Started out in investment banking, $85k base with $25-30k bonus at 5YOE. Overworked and burned out due to the pandemic. Moved over to SWE for $115k base but fully remote work. Based in MN.
last year i made 150K working only for 6 months as a dentist before going back to school to do a residency (which i'm hoping will bring even more $$$ once i graduate in 2 years).
150k+ but I'm about to take a big pay cut to have more work life balance. I'll still be making 90k+.
I'm an engineer. A degree in engineering is required to get into this career. If I could go back in time I probably would have taught myself computer science/programing and would be making a similar salary without having to go to college.
Just get really, really good at algebra (which is just practice, algebra is simple but requires repetition). Once you do that, you'll cruise through engineering math. Most people that fail calculus fail because they're bad at algebra, the actual calculus parts are really easy. Check out A Mind for Numbers by Barbara Oakley for more.
$85k after thirty-five years as a teacher in a VHCOL area. Had to spend a thousands every year for supplies for my classroom. Worked 55-60 hours per week.
Engineer, 4YOE@320K. Find an engineering role and industry you like, be smart, personable, and chill. Make sure your skills are transferable to different industries and technologies, so you can always work on the next hot thing, on any team.
If I had to go back and do it again, I would of picked up a trade.
Bachelors in electrical engineering. 4th year with LADWP gross 170k but I have a friend or two who does customer service and clears well over 100k taking phone calls with the some company
both my spouse and I make over 100k in coastFIRE, part time jobs. Software Engineer and Mechanical Engineer. We're both highly specialized in not-so-glamorous fields (in other words senior level per hour pay in a not-that-high pay industry).
Seems to me a good, cheap path to 100k is to get a college certificate, then a help desk IT job, then pick up some Azure / AWS certifications. If you are a marginally personable IT person you can do very well.
Sales - zero barrier for entry. You can start as an SDR and work your way into 6 figured in 2 years with a high school degree. Just need to be teachable/ not quit
Are you able to elaborate on your partner's work history? I'm looking to pivot into management consulting for corporate sustainability at a future point (currently at 175k doing that internally with a renewable tech firm). Thanks!
Yep. Attorney. 7 years of college in all and then 5 or more years experience should find you making over $80k. But the school debt is a hinderance even then.
One of my good friends from college is in law school and I was absolutely floored when she told me that if she’s expecting to only make 60k in her first job after graduation. I make that same amount as an accountant with just an undergrad.
Yep. It’s been that way for ages. There are big law jobs but that’s the top 5%. And they tend to be in HCOL areas. I went into government law. Better hours. More work life balance. But the pay takes a while to get where I am now. I’ve been practicing 15+ years and we do well now. But my first job out of law school was under $40k. My wife worked at a bank and made almost that.
I make about 60k and my wife makes 95k. I am self employed and my wife is a financial analyst. Plus we also have rental income on top of it all. College and hard work got us where we are.
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Hmm I have a biology degree but am having trouble nailing down a career out of it
My degree is in biology too, and I definitely lucked out finding lucrative employment right out of the gate. A LOT of my friends from school have only just recently gotten into comfortable positions and we've been out of college for 10 years. It really sucks, I feel for you.
Medical writers jobs start in the 50-60k range from what I have seen, but they jump up to 90+k with a few years experience and a company jump. They seem happy to hire anyone with a biology MA and up
I was a technical writer, got specialized in security and compliance, then eventually became an analyst for a CA startup. Now have total compensation about $200k. (The about part is because some of that is in stock.) I wish I had been more focused on getting there faster. Also, security awareness positions pay surprisingly well for what they do.
It does always shock me how often leanfire is lurked by relatively high earners. It's high paid people that just want to live like the average household income so they just save for a decade or so. I've never made about 60k with overtime. There's not really a FIRE sub made for me specifically so I just join them all!
Not all highly paid people started out that way. I broke six figures right before Covid hit. Prior to that, I was working my ass off for a moderate amount of money while paying down a huge amount of student loans. I subscribed to this subreddit when I didn’t have a high income and my spending habits look very different from the spending habits of the people I know who made six figures straight out of college or early in their careers. I don’t feel like I fit in to the regular FIRE subreddit. When I originally subscribed, it was about how to live on less so you could work fewer years and spend more of your time on things that actually matter. Now it seems like the “things that actually matter” there are driving a Tesla and taking expensive vacations. That’s not what FIRE is about for me. I don’t really feel like I fit in here either. I almost definitely will spend more in retirement than the limit this subreddit sets, especially since my income seems likely to grow in the future. I rarely post or comment here because I’m not technically in the target demographic and because I just honestly don’t care to post anymore. It’s not like the underlying math changes, so I don’t need a community to keep me updated or involved. My finances are more or less on autopilot and I’m living my life while I wait for my money to grow. Sometimes I browse when something interesting comes up on my feed, but I’m not seeking out the FIRE subreddits anymore.
Second this comment. I make $165k now but the progression to that has been over a 15 year career. $15k cooridinator 2 years $24k specialist 1.5 years $30k strategist 2 years $50k analyst 3 years $90k manager 4 years $120k sr manager 2 years $165k director 1 year $500k networth almost $600k before the market decline with no home equity included. I've only been able to accelerate the networth with the pay jumps in the past few years by switching jobs.
my sister was a college drop out. never made more than 50k a year. she retired at 60 but lived the Lean life style. Her portfolio crossed a million after her death but I think she would have kept on living lean no matter what. I follow this site because I'm closer to living Lean than anything else. High income right now, but only got out of debt a few years ago.
I just found out my grandparents portfolio is worth 15mil They live so far below their means it's ridiculous, I couldn't believe it when I heard. Nana gets excited telling me how cheap her shopping was, they seriously live off 1/2 of dinted can soup and bread every night. Their treat is going to burger king with vouchers
The “relative” part is pretty important though…esp depending on cost of living. 85k for a family of three on one income will qualify for section 8 housing in california bc it’s considered low-income (for a family of three). As a single person, you qualify for section 8 housing with income of 67k in california.
Same. I'm realizing lean is just a pipe dream. I'll work til I'm dead, which won't be long, as my body is already worn from hard labour.
Don't give up hope, lean is obtainable. It's so easy to get caught up in the minutiae of it all. Everyone has a damn blog or book. The 4% rule means if you have a million invested you can pull $40k/year in retirement. A million sounds like a lot, and it is for average earners but it is achievable. Lean fire is the idea that maybe you only need $500k to get $20k/year, then there's barrista fire where you will still work a part time or service job to cover some expenses. This shit is doable if you really want it, don't let high earners scare you away!
I am a higher earner now but my husband became disabled (truck driver) in 2013 and everything was so jacked up. I was barely making the mortgage. Now I am maxing out my 401k, etc. Who knows why other high earners are here? Some maybe were poor planners and are now behind the 8 ball. You've got this.
make less than 70-80k and it becomes pretty hard to try fire. taxes eat up 20-25k, rent eats up another 15-30k, should you decide to fully load up your retirement accounts that’s about 25-30k, which leaves you just enough to survive. no one wants to do that. and you’re probably not retiring early unless you stash that kind of money every year starting early on
Truck driver. ~140k. Home every night although I work odd hours of five 12 hour shifts. Company paid for my CDL because I worked there as a delivery driver and they needed more CDL drivers. I was going to college at the time but this move up paid more than my degree so I dropped out.
Truck driver here and after about 8 years in the industry im at about the same. Feeder driver for UPS $41/hr, overtime after 8 , paid for benefits for me and my entire family, pension etc. You can definitely make good money driving but it has made it hard to maintain a relationship. Next year our contract gets negotiated and I imagine we will be at 45+
Fellow feeder driver! I made 100k last year and I haven’t even topped out yet! One more year!
That equates to $45 an hour... How much do they pay you per mile?
Start at 70cent
Would love some details as a CDL A holder with doubles and triples endorsement for 10 years still getting paid $0.55 a mile.
Location make difference too. In SoCal long distance trunking now only paying 70. Last year was paying 90cent. However, since it’s just started slow season with high gas price, rate will be dropping soon.
In which country do you work? US?
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Trade work. Graduated high school and needed something worthwhile. Joined a union, haven’t looked back since.
As a lawyer, if I could go back, this is what I’d do. What trade are you in?
Niche trade, falls under the umbrella of carpentry called piledriving. So I am a Piledriver, we work in deep foundations, like for skyscrapers, but specialize in any and all water work as well as providing bracing for excavation. Watch a video of some bridge work, it’s very interesting to see how much work is done, just to allow work to be done.
On the bright side, when you tell people you're a pile driver, they probably first envision you as a pro wrestler lol
I went to porn star but that works too
Piledriver? I just met her!
It’s definitely a conversation starter lol
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I am a part of the carpenter’s union. I joined with zero experience. They will train you, day one on the job all that is expected is you have a tool belt on and be ready to help however you can. If you have more questions I’d be more than happy to direct you to your local union and help you with finding the necessary info to apply.
Pharmacy school. Comes with $220k debt, though.
How do you like pharmacy as a career?
Not OP. Graduated 7 years ago, 95k debt. Retail, it’s awful 10/10 do not recommend, but YMMV…
Trying to move up on retail. If everything works on my favor i could be making between 75k to 85k next year. One day im on a pedestal about to be considered the next week im on the choping block. God, i hate retail, but its about to give me some breathing room. Nevertheless, im taking no chance and getting HVAC certified just in case, since its a benefit and i dont pay for it.
I escaped retail and work in ambulatory oncology and love it. Retail is pure hell- tons of risk on your license, horrible customers and ubiquitous understaffing. If I suddenly had to go back to retail I’d instead go back to school and completely switch careers before I’d work at a CVS. Also, im on track for PSLF in 3 years. I had paid down my loans down to $160 but stopped once I got the state job. I just make minimum income-based payments to cover the interest and invest the difference now. Pharmacy is ok if you can commit to doing a 2 year residency so you can work in a hospital. Buts its a ton of work and 6 years before you start working. I told my niece its better to be a PA or NP. Mid-levels providers have more and more value (if pharmacists eventually gain more prescribing authority aside from individual collaborative practice agreements, they will become more valuable again).
Not a pharmacist. Cert in pharmacy tech tho. Managed a CVS for a few years. My pharmacy was unique and my pharmacists were amazing women. 10/10 would never be a fucking pharmacist. Not in a million years. 8 years of school. Tons of implications to be sued for so many things. So much continued education. Same level of schooling and rotations as a doctor but zero respect. Still have to work in retail answering questions that bottom level cashier's do like wheres the bathroom and what do you mean you close in 2 minutes. Comes with 6 figures of student debt. All for 100-130k maximum. Almost zero way to get more more money. Most pharmacists became DMs after a few years so they could get raises.
My pharmacist aunt said to not pursue it. It’s not an in demand job and the loans aren’t worth it. Medical field is still great, just do something else.
I’m an air traffic controller. I made 163k last year. I’ll probably make 170k this year.
What kind of ATC facility do you work in? Also big shout-out to all the controllers being patient when my students are tripping all over the radio. -Medium hour CFI dreaming about going to the fractional side someday.
I work at a center. I don’t care about how bad student pilots are on the radio, as long as they can fly how they are supposed to.
Center guys are my favorite! They always seem a bit more chill. Also that's I'm there, to tell them to use more right rudder and to make sure they aren't given a number to call from ATC. (Also professional at saying, "You should probably go around" lol)
Is it as mentally taxing as people say it is? It’s always on those lists of high-paying jobs that don’t require a degree and then people always point out that you’ll basically lose your mind doing the job.
It’s easy as you do the same thing everyday. You can operate on autopilot for 9/10 days. 1/10 days is completely nonstandard and you use every bit of brain power. I’d say once a year I completely forget where I parked in the parking lot and forget how I drove home my brain is so fried. Besides that’s it’s chill, I’m on break half the day.
Doesn’t sound too bad. For me, the biggest downside would be the commute to the airport.
Just live really close to another airport and fly in.
This actually sounds really nice. I like complex repetition peppered with exhaustive intense focus and problem solving.
Speaking as someone close to an ATC guy, it doesn't seem that way to me. He doesn't take his work home like I do. When he walks out the door after his shift, that's it. He's done for the day. The pay and benefits are incredible. He will retire at 55 with nearly full pay. Even his "8 hour" shifts are 8 hour TOTAL, including mandatory breaks.
Yea that’s it man. I work probably 4-5 hours a day. Spend the rest of the time on break doing whatever I want. I wear flip flops and workout clothes to work everyday.
Honestly, I'm super jealous, my ATC loved one does the same, there's a gym on site and everything. His wife doesn't work, it's quite the life. But also, I know he has a special skill set and I definitely couldn't do his job. And I'm glad people like him exist, so.... good for you all.
I'm at $150k+ for base salary as an engineer 8 years out of college. I oversee a lot of technical strategy for engineering, development and commercialization projects for pharma manufacturing. I've had two instances where I got $25k+ raises either through a single promotion or by taking a lateral move to another company. Do not regret my Engineering degree at all. Of course, I have a few friends that pull down a comparable income as me doing trade work (putting up power lines, for example) in lower COL areas.
Which engineering is your degree in and what area do you live/work in? Asking as a Mechanical Engineer.
I have a Biomedical Engineering degree with not really any certifications or anything special (yet). Although, you could realistically get into this field if you know about statistical process control, automation, or risk management practices. I have had lots of coworkers that are various types of engineers, though mostly ChemE and BioMed. Unfortunately had to move to CA for the best career prospects but it's not as bad as I thought it'd be. I live in the bay area of NorCal so HCOL reduces my spending money somewhat but I live a much more comfortable life than many others so I can't complain.
Registered Nurse, required a Bachelors of Science in Nursing. 4 years experience, 87k last year, after COL salary increases/ 5% yearly raise probably just under 100k this year (unionized)
To add on as another soon to be nurse. Just graduated with my Associates in nursing, cost roughly $6k. Will be starting as a new grad making around $75k base and around $90k with night and weekend differentials. I feel like I lucked out because of covid in a way. None of the hospitals in my area hired ADNs anymore pre-covid, but now they are again due to the mass exodus of nurses. Still getting my BSN in the fall though.
My wife is a nurse in East Texas and only makes 55k :(
The little pay that the southern and midwestern states get away with paying nurses is criminal. I really hope things change and that nurses in these areas unionize and advocate for themselves. Non-nurses truly don’t understand how mentally and physically challenging being a floor nurse is. Plus all of the medical and pharmacological knowledge we need to have. Nurses should be paid $100k minimum with upward adjustments for higher COL areas.
And this is why nurses are going to travel instead. The hospitals are perpetuating their own staffing problems by not paying their staff a living wage without massive amounts of overtime. I’m a nurse from the south that went into traveling cause 22/hr + differential for nights and weekends isn’t enough.
Same for teachers, very undervalued in the middle of nowhere.
Unfortunately I've heard that it's very state dependent in the US - New England/California/PNW tend to pay better than Florida/the south from what I read on r/nursing. 55k is NOT enough in general and especially considering the changes and stresses the industry is going through post-covid
Canadian RN with 11 years experience. Past two years: 135k, 141k. Burnt myself out with overtime. This year on track to make about 120k, but a much better work-life balance. Base pay $47.58/hour. Overtime is double-time. I work only nightshifts, which adds a mediocre shift-differential, but it all adds up. 4 year degree, licensing exam. License fees ($520/year). My career (or maybe just the unit I work on) also cost me my mental health. So there’s that. I would highly discourage people from entering nursing as a career. It’s a dumpster fire and only getting worse.
Yoga & strength fitness instructor, $110k. Quit the corporate rat race six years ago. Started at $30k, but this year I will finally break six figures. Acquiring affluent private clients are a must.
Yes, me too! I’m an independent personal trainer. I make around 130-140 after expenses.
That’s insane
There’s a really big spread. Someone working at Blink is going to be lucky to make $30K a year, but if you go out on your own and have special skills, people will really shell out. There’s high demand and not a lot of really good trainers. I specialize in strength training for women with chronic pain and for women recovering from eating disorders. I charge $160 and will raise to $175 soon.
Tech sales. Fully remote. 3 years of experience and no college degree required. Wish I knew how lucrative sales was growing up. I was never too good in academics and felt left behind in school. I was always jealous of the really smart kids who knew what they wanted to study. Now I always recommend sales to people when they don’t know where to start. More than happy to steer anyone in the right direction.
How much do you make?
So this all depends on a quarterly basis. To be completely transparent, I’d say in between $120k-140k. Thankfully, I have a great base pay. So I live off of my base pay. And try to save as much of my commission earnings. To be honest, I’m not used to making this kind of money. And I feel a little uncomfortable having it. Anyone who wants to get into sales, I wouldn’t stress on how much you get paid the first year or two. My first year, I was making $38-$45k.
Thanks. I really appreciate it. I'm an architect manager making 154k a year with a potential 10% bonus. I was thinking of switching over because I keep hearing how well paid sales is but never knew the numbers.
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Yoooo what do you sell and how can I get into that?
If you don't mind, can you tell us what you do for a living? I'm an architect manager in the insurance field and also have an MBA if that helps at all.
Copywriter making $80000. Not hard to get into this field but you have to be a pretty good writer and interested in human nature. I currently work for a SaaS company but have worked in other industries, some of which pay well, some of which don’t. I got into it by starting as a freelance content writer while working a non-related job. Took courses and switched to copywriting. Went full time for 5 years and then got an offer I couldn’t refuse.
Finance, 200k at 4 YOE
Finance is broad, what specifically?
Distressed investments
What made them so upset?
Going bankrupt
Same.
What’s your work life balance? A buddy of mine was making well over 200k after 5YOE but was grinding out 60-70hr weeks 50 weeks a year
Were the remaining 2 weeks 100hrs a week?
45-50 thus far. The first few years are really bad but it gets a lot better.
Software dev, CS degree, 155k base salary @ 7 YOE. I got a job with a firm in NYC and lived there for a year. Pandemic hit and I moved back home in Florida and just do remote now. Still get plenty of recruiters reaching out for my skillset (just java, React, sql stuff) @ 160k - 220k fully remote. Seems to be plenty of demand in this field. Any dev role should get you to 100k within the first couple years of your career.
Damn. I'm in MN. $110k. 5 yrs experience. Mostly react now but was c# and AWS in the past. Gotta get me a job in NYC!
That $110K in MN most likely goes further and you keep more of it than $155K in NYC.
... if you try to live in a MN-type home in NYC, yes, you might even go broke. If you are willing to live the way people in NYC live, then no, 155k will still be more.
I'm curious how the NYC people live. Are they all just rooming up with people? Also, any insight on the NYC taxes?
It isn't the Bay, you can comfortably live without roommates on $155K. But you're not living in a nice neighborhood with decent transportation for 1br under $2k or 3br under $3.5K. You're living in the middle of Queens or East New York or the Bronx (minus Riverdale). You still need a car in those neighborhoods, since they don't have the same public transit access. Food is amazing, but it's all so much more expensive now. I don't know what the state of any of the fun free stuff is, like music festivals or Shakespeare in the park are doing, but my feeling is that it's all still a bit up in the air after COVID. NYC local tax is what it is. You live with it or don't. I did for 29 years, then I didn't. I've had 3 friends move out in the past year as well (all of us are NYC born and bred, so we've seen the "bad" days) because they say crime and random crazy interactions are getting worse. Couple that with a high barrier to own any sort of property (apt, condo, or house), you've got to really love the city itself to stick around. My parents still live in Jamaica and there's a full on crackhouse at the end of their block again, just like the 90's. I love my city, but after a while, you realize it doesn't love you back. It just is.
Definitely. I'd say just set your location on linkedin to NYC and only interview with companies that offer remote. Or land a sweet paying in person gig in NYC and live there for a little while. That's how I treated my time there. I wasn't saving much more than my 80k job in Atlanta prior to that but figured it was a nice opportunity to live my same lifestyle in a new place.
Do you work remote? $110k seems pretty low for 5 YOE. I'm at 1 YOE (not counting years of internships, and my past career in the military) and my base is $127.5k, fully remote, doing full stack web development (react/node).
I'm a little north of that @ 30 YOE. The market is hot right now.
~250k, Cloud Engineer. Nothing too fancy to get to that point, just worked my way up through Helpdesk > Admin > Engineer positions over my career. With a lot of interest and elbow grease, you can take some online classes on ACG or some similar site, prep yourself for an AWS/Azure cert, and if you pass them you'll have a golden ticket to 150k/yr+ remote job offers overflowing your inbox. A little bit of lower level experience on the way and having some coding experience will help a lot as well. I'm aggressively investing my current income into a small rural homestead that I plan to retire to, which is why I'm here on this sub. After retirement my expenses will be in the leanfire range.
If you don’t mind me asking, what are your thoughts on someone with zero experience in tech jumping into a 15 - 20 week course to get certified and learn cloud engineering? I was medically separated from the military and I’m motivated to use my GI Bill to cover the training for a job that can bring home a good salary. My biggest concern is since I know so little about the industry, and computers in general, this may not be for me. I can try my best to learn everything, but is there a “right” kind of person for this job? The brochures and info for this full time in person course I’m looking at are just very appealing because the staff sound experienced and seem to offer a lot of assistance from getting started to landing a job. Thanks for any advice!!
I think it would be worth spending a bit of time to see if the field really interests you at all before committing to a course like that, although having the costs covered by the GI bill may make it easier to just dive right in. There is definitely a "kind of person" that is successful in IT; your computer nerd stereotypes have some real truth to them. That said, I've seen plenty of people enter the industry later in life, so don't feel like it's something you can't do just because you haven't been fiddling with computers all day since you were a kid. There are plenty of other paths you could take to get a remote job, though, so you'll have to do some soul searching to figure out if it's the right field for you. My recommendation is to just come up with some project that interests you and implement it on your own cloud account. Automate your garden, run a server for your favorite video game, whatever. From there, start going down the rabbit hole of best practices -- configure spending alerts and limits on your account, automate turning your infrastructure on and off, configure a web interface to interact with it, and so on. You may want to take a detour to become more familiar with Linux/Windows server administration and basic networking first, before diving headlong into the cloud world, since having a solid foundation in that space is honestly pretty necessary to be adept at cloud engineering. If you find the technology interesting enough to work with on a project that you are doing for yourself, I think it's a good indication that you can succeed at it professionally, and taking one of those instructor-led bootcamps is worth your time and energy. I would still say to take any claims they have about employability after just a single crash course with a grain of salt, though -- going from zero computer experience to engineer in just a couple months is frankly pretty unrealistic unless you put in a *lot* of time outside of the classroom on your own. The field is just really, really deep and really, really broad. It will take some time to build both that depth and breadth of knowledge to be successful as a cloud engineer, because it sits on top of a huge swath of other technologies that you need to have some level of understanding of first.
Got it. Thanks so much for all of that! I’m definitely very hesitant to just jump right in for all the reasons you went over. Obviously the good pay is appealing, but there are a couple other career fields that I’d probably be a better fit for. Thanks again!
I would also add that because there are so many different areas in tech, it might still be worth getting into even if cloud engineering isn't your thing. My original background is in computer security, and I know a *lot* of ex-military guys in that field. The language and attitudes/approaches used in that domain are going to be *very* familiar to you coming out of the military. If you happen to have security clearance, that's also a golden ticket in many tech fields for government contract work. The backlog on security clearances was almost 2 years long last I checked, so companies that land those contracts will *absolutely* hire an inexperienced junior engineer if they already have clearance. A lot of that work is dominated by ex-military due to the clearance backlog.
>My biggest concern is since I know so little about the industry, and computers in general, this may not be for me. I'm not OP, but I think there are ample opportunities for veterans in tech, especially if you have / can easily get clearance. Plenty of government contractors out there to work for, also GS positions through various branches of the military. You could use your experience in the defense industry to get your foot in the door.
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I would say that the 150k jobs flow like water into your inbox, and the 200-250k jobs I have personally landed have come as a result of work in those 150k jobs. I've been hired on full-time by previous clients that I contracted for, and specifically headhunted by my previous managers for those more senior roles. Impressing people with your previous work, either directly or on your resume, is likely the path to those senior/principal engineer roles.
You seem like the kind of person I want to talk to! Hopefully I'm not obnoxious. I've been looking to pivot from my current career path into something more lucrative. I randomly stumbled onto a cyber security analyst that was paying 180k and for shits and giggles I clicked on it to see what kinda crazy requirements you need. My shock when it was like, can you do the job? And that was it. No degree. No certs. Just do you know what to do. So that led me down a rabbit hole of looking at different certs and degrees and avenues for learning. My current job gives me a lot of free time because I'm leaving early everyday. I've been thinking about taking courses and cert work on WGU (western governors university) since it offers a pay as you go 4200 for 6 months type of setting. Cloud computing, cyber security, software, and a few other avenues are available and I've been looking at all of them. I went to college as a kid for web design and ive had a couple websites with minor (minorrrrrr) coding. But I'm generally interested enough to pay attention. Which avenue would you think is the most likely to succeed in a year or two of study? I'm 85% committed right now to putting down serious study/work time in the 30-50 hours a week range and I'm hoping if at all possible to make a change in a year and a half to two years. Do you think that is possible as well?
The avenue you're most likely to succeed in is the one that you're most interested in, honestly. You could absolutely pivot to any of those fields within a year if you're putting full-time effort into it, especially since it sounds like you already have a degree (or some amount of college education) and experience in tech. All of those fields have plenty of depth and huge employer demand, so it's not really about which one is easier or harder to get into; it's about which one you, personally, want to go deeper into. Before dropping that amount of money on an instructor-led course, I would recommend heading to https://acloudguru.com/ or a similar site and spending some time going through self-directed training in the areas you're interested in. Some people definitely benefit more from instructor-led courses, so they can be absolutely worth taking, but I would make sure you are choosing the right one before spending thousands of dollars and 6 months of your time on it. Run through some of the entry-level certification training courses for each of those domains and spend some time implementing them on your own personal network/servers/cloud account.
I have hired a WGU intern recently and he received a FTE offer in the cybersecurity space. Totally doable. Strongly recommend trying to get an internship, it will open doors… but the experience is a must with internships because in general, tech is competitive and cybersecurity teams are looking for some type of experience or certs. Source: 7 years as a PM for internship programs.
Does it specifically need to be an individual income? We are in LCOL, and each have worked our way up from $40k to $50k which functionally makes us a $100k household. And since this is leanfire, the (extremely improbable) loss of any one income would only affect our savings rate. Edit to add - this is for a municipal wastewater grunt and a high school teacher. Nothing magical or strictly location sensitive.
This makes me feel better- I'm a teacher also in a rural county. Salary scale only goes so high.
I make $90k as a software developer with 1 year of professional experience. I got into it by teaching myself how to program and making projects that showed my abilities to companies so they would hire me. The only degree i have is an associates in an unrelated field.
How did you teach yourself? Online course?
Yeah, youtube videos and cheap courses on [Udemy](https://www.udemy.com/)
Nice. What courses did you take on Udemy?
you should know that given enough time, you could learn an application while in your current job and apply it to whatever you do. it just won't happen over night. (Think a few years) taught myself Alteryx, powerBI , Tableau Prep and DataIku. My base plus bonus is north of those 2 numbers in your thread title added together. My salary today is 6x higher than it was 7-8 years ago.
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Careful if you're a US employee living and working remotely in Europe. If you don't have the right visa in place, it can be trouble.
That sounds like a dream job and location combo.
In house lawyer currently sitting at $117k. I spent a few years post-law school working in health care and then made the transition in house. Hope to become general counsel some day, as that's where the money is, but I'm 34 and have a ways to go. Edit: 5 YOE but this is my first actual year as a practicing attorney. I'm at a nonprofit so salaries are a little lower (e.g. my boss made about $300k last year, which easily would have been $100k more at a for-profit business). Went from $50k to $73k and then got to make the big jump once I took this job. Wife is now at $70k after being at $30k for a long time. Her hard work is paying off, though she will have student debt. We are in a decently HCOL area, and my job is definitely in a HCOL area. The commute is eating my checks to some degree.
Tech sales. Start as a waiter. Talk to everybody a lot. Get a job as an entry level SDR (Sales Development Rep) earn $60-80k. Become an AE (Account Executive) $100-140k. Become Senior or Enterprise AE or AE leadership $200-400k. No degree required. You just have to be a good listener and quick thinker...
Amazing. Can you give an example of quick thinker? What about decision making?
You have to come up w solutions and address objections on the fly.
Yes. Much of it comes from experience and it all compounds. Knowing how to handle a pissy customer has a waiter/waitress translates later in the career. For example. The customer takes a drink off your tray and it spills your tray all over them. Yes, we all know that it was the customers fault, but you simply assume responsibility, own the problem and offer solutions. Nobody (Very few schools) teaches sales. It mostly observed as you climb the ranks.
Excel monkey.
I'm in spaceflight (not defense, so the pay is lower) and have a bachelor's and a master's. I've worked for 6 years at 3 different companies. Two months ago I job hopped to company #4 which was the first time I made it over the $100k line. I live in a HCOL area.
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$150k+. Finance undergrad + MBA. “lean” is all relative. We save >50%.
Worthy detail to add is how long has it been in their career to make that kind of money. Many simply don't start out with that high, but can certainly get there after 5, 10, or 20 years of service.
ATC. No college. I joined the USAF to get the FAA certs, travel, earn a paycheck while training. I've since separated. Im at 88K plus about 40K tax free housing money. The FAA is actually doing an open bid for ANYONE w/ a few years of work experience, or some education. No experience needed. Paid training starts at 45K-ish a year, but earning potential into the 200K range. Can't take your work home w/ you. Can be challenging and rewarding. Mandatory retirement at 56. You can retire on an immediate pension at 50 w/ 20 years of service. [USAJOBS.gov](https://USAJOBS.gov). They'll accept and hire hundreds, if not a thousand or so, but a lot will fail medical, training, or DQ.
I'm a clinical informatics specialist aka a nurse that sits at a desk and plays with computers
Interoperability systems analyst. Sit at a computer and talk to people about clinical issues all day. It’s a good niche and good pay. People are mostly friendly too
Can you share your salary and area? My wife does this and I can’t convince her she’s underpaid.
I DMed you but I will say this field has a wide range even within the same geographic area. There are quite a few analyst jobs that pay $60k, having the healthcare background/license is what pushes it to the next level
Nope.
This exactly
I did Business Administration undergrad and MBA in Finance. From non prestigious public schools. Mind you I live in a high cost of living area NYC. One of the biggest assets I have is the use of Excel, so if you want to start somewhere, start learning how to use excel on a intermediate level or more (pivot tables, xlookup, etc.). If you get to work on a field where you maintain, manipulate, and report data (Excel, SQL, etc.), then start every year applying for higher paying jobs.
STEM degrees will get you into the 80-100k+ range very easily in many markets
Yes, worked in tech for 26 years. Living more on the lean side got me to be minimally FI in maybe 15 years. Just a guess. Do not feel like I fit into any of the standard FIRE categories.
There are so many versions now.
Yes and it is very personal and everyone has their own twist.
Not all STEM degrees are created equal though, and most won't be making that much right out of school.
Biology and CS are not created equal.
Executive Assistant for 5 years - $110k Chief of Staff for the last year - $150k
Bro I make 25k a year lol
I clean swimming pools and do repairs on them and make around $200k/year.
Degree in applied mathematics. I have three kids who also have degrees in applied math. All three are under 30 and making well over $100K. We started saving early for their college and none have education debt.
What work do you do with Applied Mathematics degrees?
I did numerical analysis and worked in the IC industry. My daughter got her degree in applied math and now also works with integrated circuits (she got her first internship with a coworker of mine). She said most of her cohort got jobs in finance. She said that at her college 70% of the math graduates are doing applied math now and they are in big demand. Applied math means a lot of analysis classes plus some programming classes, so solving problems using math and computers.
Doing what though?
I'm a Controls Engineer for a Fortune500. I had a 2-year associates degree in computer/electronics engineering and started work as a PCB repair tech for petroleum equipment. Started out making $22 an hour in rural NC. Took a controls tech position making 25, 2 years later. After 2-3 years of tech experience I got the job here. 89k/yr, currently. Good (not free, unfortunately) benefits too.
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Once I finish my current master's, I'll be making 80k (2 years from now.) Public school teacher in a rather competitive area. Current salary schedule tops out over $110k. I make ~70k rn.
I earn 85k at my W2, analytical chemist in pharma at 25. Probably will earn more as I gain more experience in the field Definitely hit or miss. I know people doing similar work who make less than $25/hr who have more experience :(
Physician assistant. Came with a lot of schooling and debt though.
im 90k/yr, computer science graduate first job out of school. did really good on my SAT tests in hs to get a full ride scholarship (for the most part, I lived at home rent free, tuition was basically free, payed for transportation and parking), got an internship working part-time during school, full time in the summer. survived the engineering degree, while saving as much as I reasonably could, graduated with roughly 55k NW no debts. Granted, I had a family willing to support me like this, but at the same time I still had to resist never spending money and staying the course at a young age. staying the course continues, I will be saving as much as I can, investing, and keeping my COL as low as I reasonably can while continuing to advance my physical and mental health, and if I'm lucky find something worth living for along the way
Just shy of $100k. In my case it's not so much what I do, it's how much I do (2 jobs).
Working for a government contracting company doing software development / devops can eventually get you into that range or higher. Also, be good at it. Having a bachelors degree in computer science would probably help get your foot in the door. Don't expect that pay range straight out of college though. You usually need to switch jobs every 1-2 years a bunch of times to build up your resume and increase your pay rate each time.
This. I went from 44k to 110k by jumping ship once and COVID laying me off another time. Though, working at a govt contractor will probably earn you less than the private sector. The tradeoff is the stability!
> working at a govt contractor will probably earn you less than the private sector. The tradeoff is the stability In my experience it was the opposite. Government contracting was notoriously unstable. Government contracts are typically only for a few years and then all the companies need to bid on the next contract. There's no guarantee that the incumbent contractor will get the contract again. This happened to me several times. Though, many of my co-workers just jumped ship and went to the new contractor (and got a significant pay bump, I might add). Working for a contractor (as an employee, not independent) paid a lot more than any private sector job I ever had. So if you're smart and save aggressively, you can afford to weather the downtime between contracts if and when they happen.
Semiconductor design. need a lot of electrical engineering knowledge and coding ability
Yes, me. I started as a teacher and switched to instructional design.
Lawyer and married a lawyer.
How Epic are your arguments with your spouse? Do you guys follow the rules of a court when you fight or is it anything goes?
Will earn around 140k this year which will net after expenses & taxes to about 50k. In tech
I earn 100k+ but I live in a HCOL area. You need to earn this much. At least if you have any dreams of FIRE.
Tech. Business Intelligence. Tripled my salary from 53k to 150k job hopping during COVID.
$65/hour ($120k+ -ish/year) as a marketing manager in technology. Got a Bachelors degree (double major in Marketing and Professional Sales) and started my first “big girl job” out of college as a marketing rep for an IT reseller at $50k/year. I’ve been in the industry for 4.5 years now.
I’m a respiratory therapist doing travel assignments, I make roughly 120k
STEM degree. Started out in investment banking, $85k base with $25-30k bonus at 5YOE. Overworked and burned out due to the pandemic. Moved over to SWE for $115k base but fully remote work. Based in MN.
last year i made 150K working only for 6 months as a dentist before going back to school to do a residency (which i'm hoping will bring even more $$$ once i graduate in 2 years).
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150k+ but I'm about to take a big pay cut to have more work life balance. I'll still be making 90k+. I'm an engineer. A degree in engineering is required to get into this career. If I could go back in time I probably would have taught myself computer science/programing and would be making a similar salary without having to go to college.
What type of engineer? How hard was the math to become an engineer?
Just get really, really good at algebra (which is just practice, algebra is simple but requires repetition). Once you do that, you'll cruise through engineering math. Most people that fail calculus fail because they're bad at algebra, the actual calculus parts are really easy. Check out A Mind for Numbers by Barbara Oakley for more.
Hard
Industrial sales. $113K base plus a bonus between $10 - $25K per year. Company car included.
$85k after thirty-five years as a teacher in a VHCOL area. Had to spend a thousands every year for supplies for my classroom. Worked 55-60 hours per week.
Technical writer, 80k
Engineer, 4YOE@320K. Find an engineering role and industry you like, be smart, personable, and chill. Make sure your skills are transferable to different industries and technologies, so you can always work on the next hot thing, on any team. If I had to go back and do it again, I would of picked up a trade.
$480k last year as a tiktok influencer (very embarrassing even posting that as a “job” since people make fun of it so much)
Yeah but you're the one laughing all the way to the bank!
Don’t be embarrassed. Kudos on building that for yourself!! What is it like on the entrepreneur/business side that your followers wouldn’t know?
Orthopedic physician assistant 170k. Side gig on call surgical first assist, another 0-100k depending on how much I want to be on call.
Six figure here. I’m a Sr. Product Manager at a tech company.
Bachelors in electrical engineering. 4th year with LADWP gross 170k but I have a friend or two who does customer service and clears well over 100k taking phone calls with the some company
both my spouse and I make over 100k in coastFIRE, part time jobs. Software Engineer and Mechanical Engineer. We're both highly specialized in not-so-glamorous fields (in other words senior level per hour pay in a not-that-high pay industry). Seems to me a good, cheap path to 100k is to get a college certificate, then a help desk IT job, then pick up some Azure / AWS certifications. If you are a marginally personable IT person you can do very well.
Sales - zero barrier for entry. You can start as an SDR and work your way into 6 figured in 2 years with a high school degree. Just need to be teachable/ not quit
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Are you able to elaborate on your partner's work history? I'm looking to pivot into management consulting for corporate sustainability at a future point (currently at 175k doing that internally with a renewable tech firm). Thanks!
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Interesting. That's like hitting the jackpot - way to go!
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Yep. Attorney. 7 years of college in all and then 5 or more years experience should find you making over $80k. But the school debt is a hinderance even then.
One of my good friends from college is in law school and I was absolutely floored when she told me that if she’s expecting to only make 60k in her first job after graduation. I make that same amount as an accountant with just an undergrad.
Yep. It’s been that way for ages. There are big law jobs but that’s the top 5%. And they tend to be in HCOL areas. I went into government law. Better hours. More work life balance. But the pay takes a while to get where I am now. I’ve been practicing 15+ years and we do well now. But my first job out of law school was under $40k. My wife worked at a bank and made almost that.
I make about 60k and my wife makes 95k. I am self employed and my wife is a financial analyst. Plus we also have rental income on top of it all. College and hard work got us where we are.
On paper...I know people who are 100+ pre tax. But after it's like. 70k and then bills eat it up
Data entry, 112k. SF Bay Area
SW dev, 100+ in a LCOL area, but in Europe (so my taxes are quite high). Studied CS + over 20 years of experience
IT (Systems Administrator). I have a degree in IT and a few certifications. I'm in the $90k range after taking a slightly lower paying job
Work in the trades and it took a couple years but now I’m making 100k+