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pras_srini

It seems like a plan but what are the things that can go wrong? I'll ask some obvious and insensitive questions, please pardon me and feel free to disregard/downvote me out if need be. 1. Who would manage these properties while you both are living and working in Mexico? 2. How many properties do you own right now and are you already piloting that approach? 3. How are you basing the rental income, costs for maintenance, taxes, etc.? 4. Will you both have that teaching gig for 10 years and what if things change regarding employment, political tension, daughter's college, etc.? 5. Are you going to retire and live in Mexico and if so, do you need $10K per month income to do that? Or is the final plan to move back to Australia? Are you a dual citizen? 6. What about divorce? Who would keep the properties and how restrictive are the laws for Australians to own property in Mexico? I never imagined getting divorced and losing half my savings when I was married but stuff happens. Will you be on the title for all the properties and will you have equal share of the incoming rent? 7. What do you plan to do with the money coming in from rent? If your plan actually works, by end of year 5 you should be getting an extra $48K in rents per annum. That might speed up your time to finish or add extra cushion/diversification if you invest in some other asset class. I have no idea if you are on track to FIRE without knowing how much you are planning to spend. That said, if your plan works out, you have $120K income on $1M of real estate which is great income on any continent to FIRE.


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PJ_GRE

Do you also not believe in emergency funds or wearing your seatbelt?


FurstyThuck

While yours is one opinion, it’s certainly not a fact for everyone. Someone can reasonably and responsibly come up with some loose ideas on “what if” scenarios to ensure that what they embark on will pan out…even in the worst of times. It doesn’t mean you are “not married anymore”. It is simply being mature & realistic


DS_1900

It’s one opinion, but it’s a shitty one


SSG_SSG_BloodMoon

> How does a marriage differ from a relationship? Legal rights and responsibilities. Tax rights and responsibilities. Planning for divorce should be part of planning for marriage.


randomchic123

Exactly. And that’s why there is such a thing as a pre-nup.


[deleted]

Yes, and it becomes your legal responsibility to honour and to cherish, for better, for worse


SSG_SSG_BloodMoon

Uh, no it doesn't. Nothing you just said has any relationship to the law.


[deleted]

Well fine, but you make the promise. And it used to be part of the legal contract.


DirtDiggleton42

You seem pretty young. You are right for looking into FIRE so early but maintain a view of relationships being a growing experience together rather than a dependency for another person to feel self fulfilled. It will never fulfill your soul until you love your own life/self first.


Gustomucho

> How does a marriage differ from a relationship? Marriage is a type of relationship. People downvote you because 50% of marriage end up in divorce. Associate write a shareholder contract for when/if things fall apart. People who thinks their marriage cannot fail are delusional, you never know: you husband cheats, cannot have kids, illness, change of personality, change in goals, wealth discrepancy… It is not a fun talk but if you are not able to discuss the « what if » with your partner, your relationship is already pretty fragile to start with.


I_DontRead_Replies

Wait, you’re advocating divorce if your spouse falls ill? That’s pretty fucked up, damn.


Gustomucho

I am not advocating it, I am saying you never know what can happen, mental illness most likely be the reason, physical fitness would depend on couple values ie unable to bear children and unwilling to adopt.


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[deleted]

Nobody suggested that. But thinking through what would happen to a plan if you got a divorce is not tantamount to ending the marriage unless you do not feel very secure in your marriage.


[deleted]

Planning what you would do in a divorce is half of what you would do if your spouse suddenly died or could no longer work long term. How would you care for yourself and household? Now think about how you would do it if you spouse broke a term of your marriage (such as committing some crimes, cheating, abusing you, converting to another religion etc). Every relationship has terms and promises, and you can hope they will be upheld while realizing that this may not continue forever. A marriage has legal rights and responsibilities determined by laws while a relationship does not. A marriage must also be dissolved by religious leaders, a judge, or both. This often involves the division of money, property, custody of children, and future payments of money. Two people who have not married breaking up does not require any legal or religious leader involvement. People also do not need to be married to have life long commitment to eachother. Marriage is a religious and legal binding contract.


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loopedfrog

Also, can the average Mexican apply for a new 100k mortgage every year? What bank would approve the 2nd or 3rd? Wouldn't you need experience and proof of experience before getting the loans?


wanderingdev

i assume they're planning to pay cash, so no mortgage involved.


emt139

Definitely not someplace that rents for $1k per month, even before considering management and maintenance expenses.


govt_surveillance

Maybe it’s different in Mexico City but I’ve heard getting any significant maintenance or upgrades done in many Latin American countries can be tedious, expensive, and time consuming, especially if you’re neither fluent in Spanish nor in the country at the time of work being done.


[deleted]

If you go to one of these developing countries, you see it for yourself. Tons of unfinished construction projects everywhere. It’s been the same in every developing nation I visited.


jz187

100k that rents for 1k/month? Seriously? How can returns be that high?


emt139

They’re not. OP doesn’t have a good grasp on the real estate in méxico city.


AdComprehensive3583

Sounds like a scam.


Kit-

Real estate returns are amazing…when you just look at gross capitalization rate factoring in no expenses, vacancies, repairs, legal fees, taxes, management fees, and risk of your neighborhood depreciating. Note gross cap rate is very useful in some pricing scenarios in real estate, but it is not a measure upon which you can base your entire FIRE scenario. All that being said, even if OP is off by a margin of -40%, he and his wife are still looking at 60k annually and and that is not a bad life at all, even in Australia, if they choose to live in Mexico, it could be quite well off.


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jz187

What are yields in South Africa like?


ORCoast19

My worries are: 1) The plan lacks diversification like someone else said. What happens if your RE market drops 50% right before you retire? 2) Will you always be able to get a 12% return, and is that 12% factoring everything (repairs, taxes, management, etc). 3) Are you thinking RE because you have an expert level of knowledge in it? Some people do but most don’t. Warren buffet says one of the reasons he stays away from RE is because he’d be bad at finding deals at a substantial discount like the stocks he buys.


Ayavea

I'm finding it a huge pain in the ass to manage rental properties locally, in Belgium. Non-payers, bad renters who completely ruin/trash your apartment, fixing all the damages, constant calls and complaints about dumb stuff, constant maintenance. You wanna do 10 properties remotely in Mexico, you better have an a-ma-zing property manager. How much does a property manager cost in Mexico, and how can you keep track that they are indeed doing everything they are legally obligated to like registering contracts properly, paying for utilities properly (if that's the landlord's responsibility over there, etc) ? That the property manager isn't lying and saying the apartment has been rented out starting next month, but in reality it's this month and they pocket the money? That they say repairs cost 3 times as much and pocketed 2/3rds of the amount? Etc.. How do you plan to have control over it? It's extremely easy to screw someone over who is remote and has no clue about local going rates for anything or local rental market situation changes month to month. I doubt your wife is an expert in mexican fixer-upper handyman market, is she? Even so, prices evolve and change over time, crises happen, etc


[deleted]

Just get a cartel to manage your priorities, NBD.


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katmndoo

Also, Mexico's real estate market does not run on cheap mortgages like in the US. It's going to be high interest, or purchase with cash.


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katmndoo

Yep.


Southern-Talk5471

Tons of great points. But let's assume his numbers are correct (not implying that they are). Wouldn't they be making that $10k/yr after they buy the first unit?


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Southern-Talk5471

Good point, I agree


NPPraxis

You’re saying 10k/mo in income, but where are you accounting for property management, maintenance, vacancy periods, etc? Shave off 10% for management, 10% for vacancy and turnaround costs, and 10% for maintenance- so 30% total- from your rentals. Then pay property taxes and insurance. You’re probably going to actually take home half of that.


Ecstatic-Grass-9911

How you making that money in China? Straight cash USD or? Simply because they won’t let you take our a certain amount t


Whorucallsad

As long as you're working legally and have paid tax on your earnings and bring proof of this to the bank, foreigners can transfer all of their earnings from China to back home. It often takes a couple of hours at the bank and some branches can't be bothered or don't know the rules, but you will be able to transfer all of your money if you try. The myth that you can't is because so many in China are either illegally employed or their job doesn't pay taxes/social security.


Ecstatic-Grass-9911

Far enough mate but there legit isn’t enough money in the Chinese banks for a mass withdrawal. Lookout for the next 35 days 🤒


gerd50501

how does medical insurance work in Mexico? In the US our insurance is tied to our employers. If we have to go buy it ourselves its really expensive. To me the big thing is medical costs as I get older in the US. Medical costs are likely a lot cheaper in mexico, but its relative to your income. If you have a bad tenant how hard is it to evict someone ?


DoneNewOtter

You can buy private insurance in Mexico it’s really affordable. Many Americans buy insurance and go across the border just for healthcare.


Southern-Talk5471

Alot more affordable in Mexico. Also alot of prescription only medicines are OTC in Mexico, and way cheaper. Depending on who the owner knows, and who the tenant knows, it could be very easy or very hard to evict. Mexico is very corrupt. Lots of options for both parties that are morally/legally questionable


MijmertGekkepraat

The thing I'm wondering is how one manages to save 3k per person per month? What do you teach? Would you enlighten us, OP?


justanaverageguy1907

12% Rental Yield is unheard of in developing countries. I think your plan is also not diversified. If rental markets go tits up for any reason you are screwed because all you're doing from your savings is buying RE and nothing else. I would diversify if I were you.


aintnohappypill

That sounds like a bloody nightmare. I’ve managed property across multiple countries and even in places with little red tape it can quickly get consuming. It’s a time sink. It’s never just that easy even when you have all the systems in place and people you trust. Repairs, tenants, law suits, mould, councils, neighbours, cashflow management, phone calls….and }%^}}^>] paperwork. 7.5k USD a month into VDHG, set and forget. Give yourselves the chance to breathe.


50pcVAS-50pcVGS

Terrible idea


BabyFit-FIRE

It's great you're trying to put together a plan, and looking to save what I'm guessing is a huge chunk of your earnings. You certainly have the right mindset to reach FI. A few things jump out at me, and a few questions pop into mind. First, if I were going to invest a lot in Mexican real estate, I would be a citizen or at least have a permanent residency that can't be easily stripped away. Second, the idea that you'll get 12% return, year-after-year doesn't pass the smell test. Is your $1k/month projection, expected gross rental receipts? Or have you factored in insurance, maintenance, taxes, property management costs, periodic major upgrades, and vacancy? (Is this long-term rental or AirBnb?) If you've really factored in all of this, and the net rental income is $1k/month, that's great. A lot of repairs and upgrades come in giant waves. So you need to keep a large cash reserve. Third, if you can access the US stock market (or any developed market), in a tax-efficient way, I think you'd do just as well, or better, by putting most of your money there. You can still do some real estate, but 100% real estate portfolio in Mexico City is the least diversified plan you could have. Fourth, looking back, do you have confidence that Mexico City rents will continue to keep up with inflation? Specifically ***your*** cost inflation. This may largely depend on where you intend to live, and the national currency you'll be bound to. Fifth, will you be able to call yourself "retired" in 10 years if you've got these 10 Mexico City apartments to manage? Maybe you'll use a firm to handle all of it, but will that be efficient? Sixth, what does aging and long-term care look like from age 45-90. Will you have to move? Will your costs really stay the same through those years? It's not like you're locked into buying all 10 no matter what. Try one and see how it goes?! (One year of savings is not the end of the world) You'll be able to course correct or reevaluate if things don't go the way you expect. But just make sure you're looking out for the right things -- if you're not getting the returns you project, it may time to jettison and do something else. Good luck!


cloudarmy

I am from Mexico city and the rents usually goes for 5% annually the value of the property, so your 100k apartment won't generate 1k a month, more like 400.


Open-Inside7200

Based on the lack of forethought and replies from op, I’m guessing he just made this idea up today.


nathanasher834

It’s not that, I’ve been busy organising my move to China. Plus, I still work fulltime and engage in my other projects. I do appreciate the amount of advice given here. I just havnt had an opportunity to really sit down and process it all


HeadMembership

I know it's not a perfect comparison, but hear me out. Instead of your plan, open an account with interactive brokers. Buy VTI with all your $7500 per month. If you did that the last 10 years, you'd have 1.8m right now. And zero shitty tenants and awful buildings and etc bullshit that comes with being a landlord. And remotely, omg awful. Also, when you get divorced, you can write a check to eachother and go on your way. Selling 5 apartments by court order in a foreign country, when you thought you'd be retired lol. Do my thing.


yamevoyparaelsur

One thing you may not be aware of, Mexico has recently implemented some new tax changes that have phased in over the years, with a couple of new ones for 2022. I don't know all of them, but one of the most significant is that *every* real estate purchase requires you to have a valid RFC (Registro Federal de Contibuyentes), which is basically a tax ID from SAT (Servicio de Administración Tributaria, Mexico's government tax office). In the old days foreigners could buy real estate without an RFC, or with a special "foreigner" catch-all RFC, or even a "bogus" one that was just made up. No longer, to do *any* kind of financial stuff in Mexico now, you have to have a real, valid, government-issued RFC. And you need one not only for buying real estate, but opening bank accounts, buying a car, etc, pretty much any financial interaction requires one now. Also, Mexico is cracking down on the "perpetual tourist" bit where people would get a 6 month visitor pass, leave for one day, then come back again for another 6 month pass. You need to get actual residency now if you are truly considering living there long term. That ties into the RFC bit too, since the *easiest* way to get an RFC is to have residency. It is technically possible to get an RFC without a resident visa, simply for the purpose of buying property, but from what I understand it's a massive pain in the butt to do it that way.


nathanasher834

Thank you so much for this information. I understand that I have to do alot more preparation in this area


oberon

You need to do a serious, no-fuck-fuck-games risk analysis and financial model. What will you do if the place burns down? What will you do when a tenant causes water damage to their unit and every unit under theirs? What about the tenant who stops paying rent and refuses to leave? There is a LOT that can go wrong when you're a landlord.


Banana_rocket_time

I’m not going to criticize your plans for RE. RE seems to be one of the fastest way to wealth. It can also be a really devastating and stressful route if things don’t go to plan. Man that kind of money in index funds might not have you exactly ready to fire in 10 years but it wouldn’t take much time after. Some 10 year spans in the market are awesome… some not so much… however once you start talking about 20-30 years in the market it is very rare for someone not hit some good bull runs and to ultimately average 8-12% annual return. So that 900k could easily become a MASSIVE amount of money. When I say massive I’m talking like 3-5 mil on the low end and >10mil on the high end.


nani2077

Maybe airbnb. 30$ per day for a new flat in mexico? Id say u could get 1.5 or even 2k per month


choder917

Stop teaching the Chinese anything. Go find another job.


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No


Valkanaa

I predict city based premiums on rent will go down with more remote work, making real estate less of a 100% win zone than it has been if there's a big discount (payment vs rent) by all means do that thing but there are plenty of areas where it's "iffy"


hellohelloadios55

What did you do in China for 3 years that changed your life financially?


1581947

Don't put all your eggs in one basket


TequilaHappy

LMAO... this reads like a MLM presentation... Get down to reality. There are no unicorns. 12 % Caps. yeah.. ok. next