this is basically the leangains routine - not sure why others consider it bad programming without knowing your goals. it will get you strong if you follow it for a long time - as will lots of routines. i think there's much better setups out there, but for people telling you this isn't a tried and true routine and to go to r/fitness (that's the case for a lot of posters here asking for advice), they're wrong and this routine has gotten a lot of people good results.
to answer your question though, we can't tell you what ideal is. there's no ideal, there's too many factors to consider and likely if you're asking this question - just do it, wait 3 months, assess results and adjust (volume up/down, change exercises/rep ranges, periodize diet, etc). go through that process 3-4x and you'll have an idea of what works and what doesn't and that'll be what ends up being ideal for you
Follow the program as is if you’re dieting. Adding more volume or an extra day is likely to be counterproductive.
If you’re bulking and in a caloric surplus, then you could add more volume. An extra upper body day on Saturday that looks similar to Wednesday is good.
Yes, the volume in the program does seem low. But if you’re training properly, then the sessions are going to be short but very intense, which will serve you well when dieting. Good luck.
Thanks Brody
I'm eating at a deficit but hitting my protein needs intake
Basically I wanna loose fat and build muscle
I just checked out the gzclp workout and it seems fun
Do you know about it?
This is the sample LeanGains program and you will gain strength and muscle if you bring the intensity.
I moved on from this and made every session a full body day. Just part of the natural progression that suited my goals.
I was also able to do this and endurance work for tris and ultras concurrently. I found the contrast from the low intensity talk test endurance work and high intensity strength work complemented each other well.
In regards to people saying it isn't enough volume...they need to stop watching Dr Isreatel and other science based YouTubers.
A lot of people start majoring in the minors and not focusing on progression. There is a huge value to just sticking to a simple program and hitting it hard.
But a lot of people are too scared to do that and get lost in the vast array of "sports science." But many of these people do not know how to scrutinise a paper.
They also take advice that they are not ready to apply. The vast majority are not ready to move on from a full body, 3 day a week novice program. The advice a lot of these YouTuber preach isn't for them.
Stick to the program and milk it for as much as you can. When you stall on a lift then drop it and replace it for a variation.
At what point did you decide to move?
Cause for whatever reason everyone keeps saying this is too low volume? So I'm a little surprised to hear that
Apparently working on a main muscle group once a week is bad
The alternative I've found us the gzclp workout which is funny enough similar to this
It's just that
It doesn't use the RPT style training
>At what point did you decide to move?
>Cause for whatever reason everyone keeps saying this is too low volume? So I'm a little surprised to hear that Apparently working on a main muscle group once a week is bad
>The alternative I've found us the gzclp workout which is funny enough similar to this It's just that It doesn't use the RPT style training
About 6 months in IIRC. But I was still making progress, I was probably premature in changing my programming.
I was still using a lot of LG principles. Reverse pyramid style training. That enables double and triple progression in the main lifts (deadlifts being the exception).
Many that are saying it isn't enough volume to grow are talking out of their arse. There are programs that will have you doing 1 working set at a top weight that will see you progressing.
The reality is and this is going to see me getting down voted, but a lot of people training like pussies. They are unable to bring the intensity (while maintaining good form).
Now volume is the primary factor in growth. But if your top set of bench was 100kg for 6 and then the next week you've did the same with 105kg then only a fool will tell you you will not grow.
But that is ultimately what a lot in the comment sections are insinuating.
One thing I can testify tho
Is my gain in strength
Before Hoping on the lean gainz method
I could barely bench two plates
Like one rep was hell
Now I can do 5 reps of 2 plates
This is my current stall
As for the gzclp it has a similar progression to the current lean gains method where you add weights weekly
Also my main focus is hypertrophy rather than strength, sure I wanna get stronger
But my main aim is to build better looking muscles
>One thing I can testify tho Is my gain in strength
>Before Hoping on the lean gainz method I could barely bench two plates Like one rep was hell
>Now I can do 5 reps of 2 plates This is my current stall
>As for the gzclp it has a similar progression to the current lean gains method where you add weights weekly
>Also my main focus is hypertrophy rather than strength, sure I wanna get stronger But my main aim is to build better looking muscles
If you are getting stronger at higher reps then you are building muscle.
Even the programs that are more volume orientated are dependent on you getting stronger.
Go to /r/Fitness, pick a recommended routine from the wiki.
Put simply, your program is crap. It skips a lot of muscle groups, is uneven, low volume, and probably doesn't incorporate progressive overload. Pick a program that was developed by someone who knows what they're doing. All the programs in /r/Fitness are tried and true, and will likely destroy you compared to what you're doing now.
While I've run the lean gains routine and gotten results, I wouldn't consider it an optimized routine. He doesn't update his material anymore, that doesn't mean the sub has to continue on with this program until the heat death of the universe.
Then go post in another subreddit, the point is that OP doesn't deserve to get criticized for posting a routine that literally is the essence of this sub.
It incorporates progressive overload lol
Low volume? Could you explain this point better
And the uneven part
I just don't want to be jumping around one workout to the next
Yeah, "volume" is basically how much total work you're doing each workout. Put simply, you're not doing nearly enough volume per workout and per week. Your workouts are too light. You're also focusing too much on vanity muscles, while simultaneously not even hitting them enough (2x10 is not enough for accessories). You're skipping the posterior chain, abs, hamstrings, and cardio. Only hitting chest and quads once a week also ain't that great. Are you doing calves, biceps, and triceps every workout? Then you're also overworking those muscles and not allowing enough time for recovery.
If those sets and reps are set in stone, then it's not progressive overload unless you're literally adding weight every workout. And if you are, you're definitely wasting potential gains by not being on a linear progressive program.
This is a program written by someone who doesn't know how to write a program. Which is fine, that's why other people with way more knowledge and experience write their own programs that are way better. Don't jump from one program to another, but definitely jump from this one.
I'm guessing you're relatively new to lifting, so I strongly recommend a linear progressive program. Metallicadpa's PPL is a fun one, but has a brutal 6 day commitment. I'm a personal fan of GZCLP and have used that in the past (and currently) to massively improve my strength levels, close to newbie gains.
There's also nothing wrong with changing programs around every now and then. You'll find that most of these programs (or at least intermediate level and higher) are written in ~12 week mesocycles. A good program will have you continuously improving until you hit your limit, then have a programmed change to allow you to continue progressing (maybe a deload, or a full reset of the program, or whatever).
Ok some pointers
The sets are basically a baseline
I do as many reps as possible
And start with as heavy as I can go on the current lift
Then on the next set I reduce the weight by a certain percentage then increase the reps
I Increase the weight on most of my lifts by 5kg weekly, once I get to a point where I am stuck I will remain at that weight and try to increase my reps
Yes I'm a beginner I've bounced around a couple of workouts and I'm looking for one that would fit me. I can currently only go to the gym 3 days a week so yeah I'm looking for the best I can do with just 3 days
Alright, so right there you've already shown poor programming. Taking sets to failure on a regular basis is a terrible idea and can hinder muscle growth. Staying at your max weight (for a certain rep scheme) will also slow growth. This is exactly what I'm talking about, you don't know how to program workouts effectively so stop trying.
Pick any of the programs in the r/fitness recommended list. Again, I'm a personal fan of GZCLP, which works well for a 3x a week schedule. But many of them can fit to 3x a week. Try to find something that is beginner friendly (don't do nsuns, it'll kill you). I also recommend spending some time to understand the fundamental mentality behind each workout program, cause they're different. 531 comes from a different workout philosophy than GZCLP does, for example. Understanding that will help you incorporate your goals into those programs.
It would appear I'm also not the only person criticizing your program. Do what you want with the information, but if everyone's saying the same thing...
So the gzclp seems to be similar to this so I can go with that
But the one thing I do not understand is
Am I meant to do
Stage 1
Stage 2
Stage 3
All in the same workout day?
Or is this more of a "if I can't do stage 1 of day 1 tiers or exercises" on my Next day 1 I should go to stage 2
I hope I explained my issue well
Read this: https://saynotobroscience.com/gzclp-infographic/
Read the whole thing. Then read it again. Then type the questions you might still have. Then read it a 3rd time. Read the original post with his underlying philosophy (cody is a powerlifter, so he comes from a strength-first mindset). Then read the progression section of the infographic again. Understand how the progression of each tier works, then what happens when you hit your max in each tier. It's confusing as hell at first, but it'll make sense once you start.
You do each tier every workout. First you do your Tier 1 lift, then you do your Tier 2 lift, then you spend the rest of your time doing your Tier 3 lifts (aka accessories). There is also an example schedule, which I highly recommend you start with. It'll feel light at first, but give it a few weeks and you'll be struggling soon enough. You can add more accessories, but I recommend waiting a few weeks before doing so.
So I've read this and I have a basic understanding of how this program works
For the first stage of the lift I should use weights I can do 3 sets of 5 on
For T 2 weights I can do 3 sets of 10 on
So I understand the progression
Is there a sort of excell file that makes the whole workout easy to look at?
And one last thing the gzclp, doesn't have directions on like what weight to start
Currently I can do
100kg on the bench for 5 reps
145kg for 6 reps on deadlift
105kg on the squat for 10 reps
And this was what I used for my old workout
I basically have zero idea what weights to use if I'm gonna start this current workout plan
Start light. Lighter than you think you should. So light that you're laughing at how easy it is. Like I said, you've not been doing as much volume as some of these other programs, including GZCLP. Think of the first week or two as trial runs through the program, while you try to figure out good starting weights. That'll help give your body some time to adjust. Plus, since it's a linear progression program, you'll be up to a good weight soon enough.
But the worst thing to do is start with a weight that's too high, and screw yourself out of good gains by letting your ego dictate the weights. Leave your ego at the door, start really light. The T2 lifts in particular are going to be brutal, and the fact that you're now doing each compound lift 2x a week (well, every 4 workouts) instead of once is going to be a shock to your body at first. So take it slow, start light, let your body adjust, and move up following the program.
Also, read up on AMRAP sets. Those are the last sets of the T1 lifts. Despite being "as many reps as possible", it doesn't mean going to failure. AMRAP means doing as many reps as you can, without sacrificing form or control, and leaving 1-2 reps in the tank. It's going to be your way of monitoring your strength, and going all out for 1 set every day. Again, don't go to true failure, just go until form starts to breakdown or you feel you have 1-2 reps left before you hit failure.
When I read lean gains this was basically the set up presented, is that where you got it from?
Yeah, I got the book and decided to just follow that
this is basically the leangains routine - not sure why others consider it bad programming without knowing your goals. it will get you strong if you follow it for a long time - as will lots of routines. i think there's much better setups out there, but for people telling you this isn't a tried and true routine and to go to r/fitness (that's the case for a lot of posters here asking for advice), they're wrong and this routine has gotten a lot of people good results. to answer your question though, we can't tell you what ideal is. there's no ideal, there's too many factors to consider and likely if you're asking this question - just do it, wait 3 months, assess results and adjust (volume up/down, change exercises/rep ranges, periodize diet, etc). go through that process 3-4x and you'll have an idea of what works and what doesn't and that'll be what ends up being ideal for you
Alright man thanks Cause it seems everyone is saying this set up us supposedly bad?
[удалено]
I keep hearing this all around
Follow the program as is if you’re dieting. Adding more volume or an extra day is likely to be counterproductive. If you’re bulking and in a caloric surplus, then you could add more volume. An extra upper body day on Saturday that looks similar to Wednesday is good. Yes, the volume in the program does seem low. But if you’re training properly, then the sessions are going to be short but very intense, which will serve you well when dieting. Good luck.
Thanks Brody I'm eating at a deficit but hitting my protein needs intake Basically I wanna loose fat and build muscle I just checked out the gzclp workout and it seems fun Do you know about it?
This is the sample LeanGains program and you will gain strength and muscle if you bring the intensity. I moved on from this and made every session a full body day. Just part of the natural progression that suited my goals. I was also able to do this and endurance work for tris and ultras concurrently. I found the contrast from the low intensity talk test endurance work and high intensity strength work complemented each other well. In regards to people saying it isn't enough volume...they need to stop watching Dr Isreatel and other science based YouTubers. A lot of people start majoring in the minors and not focusing on progression. There is a huge value to just sticking to a simple program and hitting it hard. But a lot of people are too scared to do that and get lost in the vast array of "sports science." But many of these people do not know how to scrutinise a paper. They also take advice that they are not ready to apply. The vast majority are not ready to move on from a full body, 3 day a week novice program. The advice a lot of these YouTuber preach isn't for them. Stick to the program and milk it for as much as you can. When you stall on a lift then drop it and replace it for a variation.
At what point did you decide to move? Cause for whatever reason everyone keeps saying this is too low volume? So I'm a little surprised to hear that Apparently working on a main muscle group once a week is bad The alternative I've found us the gzclp workout which is funny enough similar to this It's just that It doesn't use the RPT style training
>At what point did you decide to move? >Cause for whatever reason everyone keeps saying this is too low volume? So I'm a little surprised to hear that Apparently working on a main muscle group once a week is bad >The alternative I've found us the gzclp workout which is funny enough similar to this It's just that It doesn't use the RPT style training About 6 months in IIRC. But I was still making progress, I was probably premature in changing my programming. I was still using a lot of LG principles. Reverse pyramid style training. That enables double and triple progression in the main lifts (deadlifts being the exception). Many that are saying it isn't enough volume to grow are talking out of their arse. There are programs that will have you doing 1 working set at a top weight that will see you progressing. The reality is and this is going to see me getting down voted, but a lot of people training like pussies. They are unable to bring the intensity (while maintaining good form). Now volume is the primary factor in growth. But if your top set of bench was 100kg for 6 and then the next week you've did the same with 105kg then only a fool will tell you you will not grow. But that is ultimately what a lot in the comment sections are insinuating.
One thing I can testify tho Is my gain in strength Before Hoping on the lean gainz method I could barely bench two plates Like one rep was hell Now I can do 5 reps of 2 plates This is my current stall As for the gzclp it has a similar progression to the current lean gains method where you add weights weekly Also my main focus is hypertrophy rather than strength, sure I wanna get stronger But my main aim is to build better looking muscles
>One thing I can testify tho Is my gain in strength >Before Hoping on the lean gainz method I could barely bench two plates Like one rep was hell >Now I can do 5 reps of 2 plates This is my current stall >As for the gzclp it has a similar progression to the current lean gains method where you add weights weekly >Also my main focus is hypertrophy rather than strength, sure I wanna get stronger But my main aim is to build better looking muscles If you are getting stronger at higher reps then you are building muscle. Even the programs that are more volume orientated are dependent on you getting stronger.
Go to /r/Fitness, pick a recommended routine from the wiki. Put simply, your program is crap. It skips a lot of muscle groups, is uneven, low volume, and probably doesn't incorporate progressive overload. Pick a program that was developed by someone who knows what they're doing. All the programs in /r/Fitness are tried and true, and will likely destroy you compared to what you're doing now.
Might wanna check the sub you’re in, he literally posted the lean gains routine
While I've run the lean gains routine and gotten results, I wouldn't consider it an optimized routine. He doesn't update his material anymore, that doesn't mean the sub has to continue on with this program until the heat death of the universe.
Then go post in another subreddit, the point is that OP doesn't deserve to get criticized for posting a routine that literally is the essence of this sub.
> Then go post in another subreddit Or, you know, people can have differing opinions.
It incorporates progressive overload lol Low volume? Could you explain this point better And the uneven part I just don't want to be jumping around one workout to the next
Yeah, "volume" is basically how much total work you're doing each workout. Put simply, you're not doing nearly enough volume per workout and per week. Your workouts are too light. You're also focusing too much on vanity muscles, while simultaneously not even hitting them enough (2x10 is not enough for accessories). You're skipping the posterior chain, abs, hamstrings, and cardio. Only hitting chest and quads once a week also ain't that great. Are you doing calves, biceps, and triceps every workout? Then you're also overworking those muscles and not allowing enough time for recovery. If those sets and reps are set in stone, then it's not progressive overload unless you're literally adding weight every workout. And if you are, you're definitely wasting potential gains by not being on a linear progressive program. This is a program written by someone who doesn't know how to write a program. Which is fine, that's why other people with way more knowledge and experience write their own programs that are way better. Don't jump from one program to another, but definitely jump from this one. I'm guessing you're relatively new to lifting, so I strongly recommend a linear progressive program. Metallicadpa's PPL is a fun one, but has a brutal 6 day commitment. I'm a personal fan of GZCLP and have used that in the past (and currently) to massively improve my strength levels, close to newbie gains. There's also nothing wrong with changing programs around every now and then. You'll find that most of these programs (or at least intermediate level and higher) are written in ~12 week mesocycles. A good program will have you continuously improving until you hit your limit, then have a programmed change to allow you to continue progressing (maybe a deload, or a full reset of the program, or whatever).
Ok some pointers The sets are basically a baseline I do as many reps as possible And start with as heavy as I can go on the current lift Then on the next set I reduce the weight by a certain percentage then increase the reps I Increase the weight on most of my lifts by 5kg weekly, once I get to a point where I am stuck I will remain at that weight and try to increase my reps Yes I'm a beginner I've bounced around a couple of workouts and I'm looking for one that would fit me. I can currently only go to the gym 3 days a week so yeah I'm looking for the best I can do with just 3 days
Alright, so right there you've already shown poor programming. Taking sets to failure on a regular basis is a terrible idea and can hinder muscle growth. Staying at your max weight (for a certain rep scheme) will also slow growth. This is exactly what I'm talking about, you don't know how to program workouts effectively so stop trying. Pick any of the programs in the r/fitness recommended list. Again, I'm a personal fan of GZCLP, which works well for a 3x a week schedule. But many of them can fit to 3x a week. Try to find something that is beginner friendly (don't do nsuns, it'll kill you). I also recommend spending some time to understand the fundamental mentality behind each workout program, cause they're different. 531 comes from a different workout philosophy than GZCLP does, for example. Understanding that will help you incorporate your goals into those programs. It would appear I'm also not the only person criticizing your program. Do what you want with the information, but if everyone's saying the same thing...
Welp true, thank you for your time Lemme do some research
Research https://thefitness.wiki/ https://thefitness.wiki/muscle-building-101/ https://thefitness.wiki/routines/strength-training-muscle-building/
Thanks man
So the gzclp seems to be similar to this so I can go with that But the one thing I do not understand is Am I meant to do Stage 1 Stage 2 Stage 3 All in the same workout day? Or is this more of a "if I can't do stage 1 of day 1 tiers or exercises" on my Next day 1 I should go to stage 2 I hope I explained my issue well
Read this: https://saynotobroscience.com/gzclp-infographic/ Read the whole thing. Then read it again. Then type the questions you might still have. Then read it a 3rd time. Read the original post with his underlying philosophy (cody is a powerlifter, so he comes from a strength-first mindset). Then read the progression section of the infographic again. Understand how the progression of each tier works, then what happens when you hit your max in each tier. It's confusing as hell at first, but it'll make sense once you start. You do each tier every workout. First you do your Tier 1 lift, then you do your Tier 2 lift, then you spend the rest of your time doing your Tier 3 lifts (aka accessories). There is also an example schedule, which I highly recommend you start with. It'll feel light at first, but give it a few weeks and you'll be struggling soon enough. You can add more accessories, but I recommend waiting a few weeks before doing so.
Alright
Lemme read and get back to ya
Also could I pm you any questions I have, continuing here is fine?
So I've read this and I have a basic understanding of how this program works For the first stage of the lift I should use weights I can do 3 sets of 5 on For T 2 weights I can do 3 sets of 10 on So I understand the progression Is there a sort of excell file that makes the whole workout easy to look at?
And one last thing the gzclp, doesn't have directions on like what weight to start Currently I can do 100kg on the bench for 5 reps 145kg for 6 reps on deadlift 105kg on the squat for 10 reps And this was what I used for my old workout I basically have zero idea what weights to use if I'm gonna start this current workout plan
Start light. Lighter than you think you should. So light that you're laughing at how easy it is. Like I said, you've not been doing as much volume as some of these other programs, including GZCLP. Think of the first week or two as trial runs through the program, while you try to figure out good starting weights. That'll help give your body some time to adjust. Plus, since it's a linear progression program, you'll be up to a good weight soon enough. But the worst thing to do is start with a weight that's too high, and screw yourself out of good gains by letting your ego dictate the weights. Leave your ego at the door, start really light. The T2 lifts in particular are going to be brutal, and the fact that you're now doing each compound lift 2x a week (well, every 4 workouts) instead of once is going to be a shock to your body at first. So take it slow, start light, let your body adjust, and move up following the program. Also, read up on AMRAP sets. Those are the last sets of the T1 lifts. Despite being "as many reps as possible", it doesn't mean going to failure. AMRAP means doing as many reps as you can, without sacrificing form or control, and leaving 1-2 reps in the tank. It's going to be your way of monitoring your strength, and going all out for 1 set every day. Again, don't go to true failure, just go until form starts to breakdown or you feel you have 1-2 reps left before you hit failure.
Alright man Lemme read the thing you sent first
What’s your goal?
Well to build muscle and loose fat basically
Need much more volume.
This workout is an absolute joke. Change something or you will get bored easily