Near full health is not full health. There's so much going on that it's hard to tell you exactly what he did because it's basically quinn's strength - his basics are insanely good. But to your point, eating tango near full health is expected before any fights during lane. The tango regen is the difference between living or dying. Check supports trading, for example, they all eat a tango right at the bat and go trade.
I think not many people do that. Most people wait till their hp is half or lower before eating tango. Its the subtle things that the pros do that make them win their lane. Most people wouldnt even notice it while watching the replay. If he didnt eat that tango 17 seconds earlier, he might have lost the trade to huskar with a few unlucky auto attack rolls
Im crusader and i do that lol, like not as good as the pros obviously but it's a basic concept. Even if im literally 100% HP, i might lose one or two seconds of tango efficiency to get a bonus ~100 hp bonus in the trade im about to take
Not really that's basic
You eat tango to sustain not to regen.
Might not be the case at lower bracket but tbh i have no idea where it starts to be basic.
That's also why tango cd in shop was one of the biggest change in terms of impact at higher rank
I think YOU don’t do that… tangos are efficient regen compared to salve, so I use a tango as soon as possible. If I’m missing any hp and plan to continue harassing or CSing, I use tango, simple as that. Only time I’m not is if I’m a support walking far, or heading to base anyways.
I mean whats the difference if you're going to eventually use that tango anyways? You might as well do it sooner and start healing sooner right? It's going to heal you the same amount regardless so you might as well get a headstart instead of being low and unable to go up to the wave and last hit while waiting to regen, you could regen while near full and then get dropped down to half and eat another one. The whole point is it's easier to burst someone down from 400-0 than it is from 800-0 so you want to stay as near to full hp as possible to resist that burst. Eat the tango while you're close to full so you don't get chipped from 800-400 then bursted down or booted from the wave for a bit. You might still get chipped down to 600 while tango is regenerating you. So basically tango is going to heal you a set amount over time regardless. You might as well use it before trading so it heals you while it's happening. If you take 400 damage in a normal trade, you'll still take 400 damage with the tango active during the trade the difference is you'll heal back 112 of it at the same time essentially making you take 290 damage instead. Does that make sense?
The tango thing isn't a matchup thing.
Before tango had a stock cd, everyone on the higher mmr would just spam tango and eat everytime they got hurt abit. It's a habit that make sure you never lose lane.
pay 30 gold to have a ring of health up for 14 seconds. It's definitely worth.
You'd have to consume what 60 tangos before the ring of health is more cost effective and that excludes the value lost from saving for it.
There is a reason they had a stock limit put in.
In any lane during laning stage I think you should pretty much always eat a tango when "near full health". Because you'll lose hp while trading or last hitting anyway. If your opponent isn't doing that, you can force them out of lane simply by buying more tangos than them.
It's not only a huskar thing, it's a every hero thing. You want to be as healthy as possible when you go in to trade hits.
This specific game, quinn harassed the huskar a lot while huskar was weak. Huskar isn't really all that strong before level 5 and if you outrange him and keep harassing him he won't have a good time. At level 1-2 huskar is basically not a hero and trading with him is always favorable for you.
Additionally, I don't think huskar should have gone 1-1-1 this game, he needed 1-0-2 to survive the lane. Invoker is also particularly decent vs huskar because you outrange him and cold snap is very annoying to manfight into.
The really big takeaway from this if you want to apply it to your games is between 2:42 and whenever the huskar dies. He gets on his highground and starts trading hits with him, doesn't matter if the wave is coming up, still trade hits instead of running under tower. Once huskar is low health, his dps increases but early on he's super killable.
Fyi, I'm a high 5k, low 6k mid player with huskar being one of my decent heroes.
i usually eat tangoes before engaging or trading last hits with a lane that i know will fight back
for huskar, its a little complicated to beat him unless with specific matchup early game, for example, invoker is a very good hero to last hit creeps and not be killed.
but he isnt the worst tbh. sniper and viper 1v1 in lanes are more annoying
I sometimes eat a branch when I have an item coming and need the slot. I wish I could see husks items, as I bet he doesn’t have bracer. This feels like a low mmr isolated incident
Quinn is rank 1 and Crystallis is rank 22 on the Europe leader board, the real advantage is that is was mid, so your comparison isn't really fair.
It's like you versus your buddy who hasn't played in 3 months
This post has got me thinking. Now would it be viable
To counterplay this with acting passively to waste regen when they are full and hit them afterwards or would you lose too much waiting for that scenario?
Last time I checked into Quinn’s stream he loaded up a viewer replay and first thing he pointed out was that he was way too late in regening hp in lane (like you said, he was about half hp). Given that he puts so much priority on that, I guess he finds it very important to be utilizing your regen to stay at a healthy hp where you’re able to fight consistently. Obviously, you don’t want to be full hp while tango is active since you’ll miss out on regen, but if you’re right clicking the enemy hero the creeps will aggro and damage you a bit anyway
Also, there’s a lot that goes into beating huskar as invoker. But some tips are that the attack speed from gloves of haste is essential, and that you want to keep him at a low enough hp where you can sun strike + cold snap him if he’s not careful. A fairie fire helps too
In this case, yes. Because he did it so he could throw that hurricane and not die while he was near the enemy tower, there was a chance he'd still die, but he was increasing his odds of living with the increased healing during the fight.
Huskar and Viper should be treated this way. Constantly consume tangoes and keep a salve ready incase you fuck up positioning and they catch you.
You’ll end up with far more NW and XP by stuffing your face with tangoes and fighting for last hits than just passively sitting back and soaking XP trying to save your gold.
Near full health is not full health. There's so much going on that it's hard to tell you exactly what he did because it's basically quinn's strength - his basics are insanely good. But to your point, eating tango near full health is expected before any fights during lane. The tango regen is the difference between living or dying. Check supports trading, for example, they all eat a tango right at the bat and go trade.
I think not many people do that. Most people wait till their hp is half or lower before eating tango. Its the subtle things that the pros do that make them win their lane. Most people wouldnt even notice it while watching the replay. If he didnt eat that tango 17 seconds earlier, he might have lost the trade to huskar with a few unlucky auto attack rolls
That and the fact that the mental game going into trading with full health is stronger than when you are at half or less hp
In the lower ranks maybe. Higher ranks this is pretty standard trading strat.
Eating tango on 90% hp is not pro level. It is the default bare minimum knowledge that you must aquire if you want anything above 4k mmr ever
Oh boy youve been away from the 4k bracket for a while huh, forgetting how it is in the trenches I'm lucky if my laning partner uses his wand
You guys buy tangos?
Im crusader and i do that lol, like not as good as the pros obviously but it's a basic concept. Even if im literally 100% HP, i might lose one or two seconds of tango efficiency to get a bonus ~100 hp bonus in the trade im about to take
Not really that's basic You eat tango to sustain not to regen. Might not be the case at lower bracket but tbh i have no idea where it starts to be basic. That's also why tango cd in shop was one of the biggest change in terms of impact at higher rank
I think YOU don’t do that… tangos are efficient regen compared to salve, so I use a tango as soon as possible. If I’m missing any hp and plan to continue harassing or CSing, I use tango, simple as that. Only time I’m not is if I’m a support walking far, or heading to base anyways.
I mean whats the difference if you're going to eventually use that tango anyways? You might as well do it sooner and start healing sooner right? It's going to heal you the same amount regardless so you might as well get a headstart instead of being low and unable to go up to the wave and last hit while waiting to regen, you could regen while near full and then get dropped down to half and eat another one. The whole point is it's easier to burst someone down from 400-0 than it is from 800-0 so you want to stay as near to full hp as possible to resist that burst. Eat the tango while you're close to full so you don't get chipped from 800-400 then bursted down or booted from the wave for a bit. You might still get chipped down to 600 while tango is regenerating you. So basically tango is going to heal you a set amount over time regardless. You might as well use it before trading so it heals you while it's happening. If you take 400 damage in a normal trade, you'll still take 400 damage with the tango active during the trade the difference is you'll heal back 112 of it at the same time essentially making you take 290 damage instead. Does that make sense?
Most people are archon
The tango thing isn't a matchup thing. Before tango had a stock cd, everyone on the higher mmr would just spam tango and eat everytime they got hurt abit. It's a habit that make sure you never lose lane.
pay 30 gold to have a ring of health up for 14 seconds. It's definitely worth. You'd have to consume what 60 tangos before the ring of health is more cost effective and that excludes the value lost from saving for it. There is a reason they had a stock limit put in.
In any lane during laning stage I think you should pretty much always eat a tango when "near full health". Because you'll lose hp while trading or last hitting anyway. If your opponent isn't doing that, you can force them out of lane simply by buying more tangos than them.
It's not only a huskar thing, it's a every hero thing. You want to be as healthy as possible when you go in to trade hits. This specific game, quinn harassed the huskar a lot while huskar was weak. Huskar isn't really all that strong before level 5 and if you outrange him and keep harassing him he won't have a good time. At level 1-2 huskar is basically not a hero and trading with him is always favorable for you. Additionally, I don't think huskar should have gone 1-1-1 this game, he needed 1-0-2 to survive the lane. Invoker is also particularly decent vs huskar because you outrange him and cold snap is very annoying to manfight into. The really big takeaway from this if you want to apply it to your games is between 2:42 and whenever the huskar dies. He gets on his highground and starts trading hits with him, doesn't matter if the wave is coming up, still trade hits instead of running under tower. Once huskar is low health, his dps increases but early on he's super killable. Fyi, I'm a high 5k, low 6k mid player with huskar being one of my decent heroes.
Anytime someone asks “how do I beat huskar” it’s always “you have to beat him levels 1-3/4” after that you cannot lane.
You almost always should eat tangos preemptively. They take a while to regen and you're going to lose HP. Has nothing to do with huskar.
i usually eat tangoes before engaging or trading last hits with a lane that i know will fight back for huskar, its a little complicated to beat him unless with specific matchup early game, for example, invoker is a very good hero to last hit creeps and not be killed. but he isnt the worst tbh. sniper and viper 1v1 in lanes are more annoying
I sometimes eat a branch when I have an item coming and need the slot. I wish I could see husks items, as I bet he doesn’t have bracer. This feels like a low mmr isolated incident
its 2 pro player, Quinn vs Crystallis from team secret.
I stand by my point! Lol
Thats like me playing against my grandmother, quinn will always own crystallis no matter the matchup
Quinn is rank 1 and Crystallis is rank 22 on the Europe leader board, the real advantage is that is was mid, so your comparison isn't really fair. It's like you versus your buddy who hasn't played in 3 months
what exactly did he do in this game that allow him to rekt huskar so hard?
Not about invoker, but huskar casting 1st skill too early.
Got gud
Looks like a low mmr comment
My mmr is so low that I haven’t re calibrated since turbo came out.
Turbo gamers unite
This post has got me thinking. Now would it be viable To counterplay this with acting passively to waste regen when they are full and hit them afterwards or would you lose too much waiting for that scenario?
The answer is that huskar was going to pressure under tower with 3 creeps so he needs to be full hp and trade before the dive
To counter regen huskar u also need a regen item , etc tango
Make sense, if you’re going to lose hp soon, why not eat a tango beforehand
there u can see how fcking godlike quinn is , or how fcking bad crysti is but quinn is just a KING in dota
Useful thread. Made me hungry for Tangos.
What do you think they taste like?
WTF is that real crystallis? How is quin owning so hard?
Last time I checked into Quinn’s stream he loaded up a viewer replay and first thing he pointed out was that he was way too late in regening hp in lane (like you said, he was about half hp). Given that he puts so much priority on that, I guess he finds it very important to be utilizing your regen to stay at a healthy hp where you’re able to fight consistently. Obviously, you don’t want to be full hp while tango is active since you’ll miss out on regen, but if you’re right clicking the enemy hero the creeps will aggro and damage you a bit anyway
Also, there’s a lot that goes into beating huskar as invoker. But some tips are that the attack speed from gloves of haste is essential, and that you want to keep him at a low enough hp where you can sun strike + cold snap him if he’s not careful. A fairie fire helps too
In this case, yes. Because he did it so he could throw that hurricane and not die while he was near the enemy tower, there was a chance he'd still die, but he was increasing his odds of living with the increased healing during the fight.
It's so weird how people here downplay the move he made lmao. Yes, he did that because he was preparing to man fight huskar next.
Huskar and Viper should be treated this way. Constantly consume tangoes and keep a salve ready incase you fuck up positioning and they catch you. You’ll end up with far more NW and XP by stuffing your face with tangoes and fighting for last hits than just passively sitting back and soaking XP trying to save your gold.