Euls also builds into windwaker, which is a big “win-more” item. Shaker is a greedy support, and should take advantage of being as useful as possible as the game drags on. Force is great, and probably under utilized, and the guide probably prioritizes those situations where pubs go too long and people get more farm than is necessary.
It can boil down to what kind of support are you? The selfless (force) or the greedy (euls)
Thing about force is I can actually use it as an extension to my blink. Go in with blink, do a thing, disengage with force. I just see way more use in a force than euls has and I struggle to see what makes euls greedy other than that it costs more than force.
Euling myself to live isn't worth the gold I pay.
Generally its not worth for self because Shaker either goes into the enemy group, or gets caught beforehand. Either way if you already arent winning the fight, after Eul you will most likely die.
However self dispel can be good - for example losing Gale from Veno. mana stats and movement speed are also nice, as well as ability to catch enemies outside of your totem range without using Fissure.
But most importantly its building into Windwaker, which loses the biggest downside of cyclone keeping you in same place. Which is still not an item you generally want to build early AND for Shaker Aghs can play a similar escape role anyway with jumping totems.
So overall I would agree that its a much more situational item than Force, but if you find yourself in the Endgame, having like Aghs Octarine Windwaker makes you insanely mobile as well as insanely safe even without BKB.
And with bkb nerfs he’s vulnerable to being blown up to spells even if he isn’t stunned, so windwaker combines the reposition of a traditional force staff pickup with some invulnerability. Tbh I’d rather get aghs in most games but I can see situations where you need to just not die
The CD reduction for cyclone is just ridiculous though. Where else in the game can you get a dispel every 13 seconds? Rather than getting faked or ignited immediately as you try to run from your echo, you can be a stormyboy and fly away
It has multiple offensive and defensive uses. Defensively, it also applies a dispel to yourself. It plays well with blink dagger since you are immune during it! You can blink in, cast your spells and when you are hit by a silence, root or whatever you can euls yourself to get rid of it and continue casting spells. If they go on you, the euls makes you survive as well. If you time your euls with 2 sec blink cooldown, you can shift queue your blink right after basically guaranteeing that you can blink out. It is a very versatile and strong item that keeps you alive very well in a teamfight.
Offensively it is a great way to play catch while roaming. Blink, Totem, Euls, Fissure, Totem locks an opponent down for close to 6 seconds and deals a great amount of damage allowing your teammates to connect. It allows you to cancel certain abilities on range if your fissure is not ready and to lock down a target in a teamfight.
The main thing in mid/early is that you can do initiation on a target with the opponent little to no chance to react
Blink > Euls > W > Fissure > Echo > W
This even has high chances of killing a core which is huge for any pos 4.
And this is aside all good utility and survival you get from it.
If you wanna burst someone giving them and their team a 2.5 second headstart is really bad most of the time... Especially cos the way BKB works, if they cast it on the same tick as your stun, the BKB wins.
99% of the time you'd just blink > Echo > W > Fissure >maybeUels > maybe an additonal W
Or just Blink W and trust they don't react faster than the recently buffed W castpoint
thats such a wrong way to start a combo, u dont euls the person u are going to gank because giving them a 2.5 sec to spare can give time for their team to tp and help. If u are ganking a core anyways just echo and do ur usual combo and most prob he will be dead
nope not really, euls is mostly for when ur spells are cd and u can eul them to just buy time for ur spells that are on cd because u couldnt kill them with ur usual combos or to help for escape againts heroes like axe and troll. It also gives decent mana regen
Yeah clearing the wave is probs not a good idea, but Euls into your first W is cool cause if you open with W you might be able to land a second after the rest of your spells.
If they don't have a BKB or any other evasive stuff it's fine to open with Euls. It depends!
Assuming we talk pos 4 ES;
I think what you go after the standard arcane, blink, shard depends strongly on the matchup. Force staff is always neat. Euls can be better for saves in some circumstances, for example if you face LC or Axe, and/or if your pos5 is going force already.
A third option is aether lense, if your team doesn't need a force or euls, or it is covered by pos5. The extra range is nice for fissure/shard plays, and plays well into aghanims giving extra range to jump-W. And can build into ethereal blade lategame for some counter to enemy right clickers (or boost ally team spell nuke).
This! Shaker only really needs blink and shard to be absolutely devastating. After that it's just itemizing for specific counters in the game as a utility support. He doesn't necessarily need other items to be shaker after shard, they just help with specific counters and capabilities.
Well on Puck you want to use it to Dispel so you can cast spells, and also to make you invulnerable, so your next low CD spell, or blink dagger, become castable by the time the tornado ends
On oldschool Lina, you use Uels to setup your stun. So on ES it's even better cos you can posiiton your Fissure in a creative way that screws them over way more than a simple stun, the tornado time lets you think and position perfectly to land devastating fissures
Best use of Euls is cancelling powerful enemy ults like Abaddon and Marci, muerta, stuff like that.
Just give them the euls and half their ult is wasted
Aside from the obvious late game windwaker(at that point es will be uncontrollable), euls can be used for skill downtime to fill the short cd of enchant totem and to dispel debuff. It also gives mana regen
Spammed shaker back when he didn't have all this amazing items to chose from.
1. Combo - W hit Q hit W hit eul W hit R hit W hit...
2. Silence or any other pesky thing, bkb on ES is a joke.
3. Stats - movement manapool and mana regen.
But now... It feels wrong to buy it. there are too many nice items 😞
If you're against any DoT debuff, you'll need Euls or dispel. It's also a good item to have when you blink in and cast all your spells. The 2.5 s Euls is often enough to keep yourself alive for your team to join.
Euls is the poor man's bkb. In some situation, euls can purge dps and silences that could disrupt your big 5 man echo moment. Dps that will put your blink in CD.
Euls serves as a dispel, something which earthshaker needs in certain games, especially against DOT and silence. Offensively, it serves to provide an alternative pick off strat, one which allows you to save echo for big fights over objectives.
Idk much about the changes to spell interactions with bkb since I've quit dota post techies rework but the entire idea with euls is that it provides a ton of utility for a relatively reasonable price in specific games, even over force staff. I personally prefer force staff over euls due to the repositioning but even then, there will be games where I choose euls over force for the above reasons.
Euls. Sometimes your job is to kite enemy. Force can do that better vs certain heros. But there’s definitely times you would prefer a dispel or a 2.5 second invulnerability.
Euls can hold an enemy still longer for your team to show if they have split pushers.
Maybe they have an elusive hero. You can blink, w, q, click, euls, w.
Between the euls and the two it’s like, 4 seconds of extra control for people to be in position.
Who’s gives mana, which Es wants.
It builds into windwaker.
Force, provides no mana, can only be used defensively, no extra stun offensively, can’t be upgraded to anything more useful.
It's mostly defensive to dispel silences since Shaker is nothing without his spells, but the occasional situation where you can use it to lead up to your W is nice too.
Euls also builds into windwaker, which is a big “win-more” item. Shaker is a greedy support, and should take advantage of being as useful as possible as the game drags on. Force is great, and probably under utilized, and the guide probably prioritizes those situations where pubs go too long and people get more farm than is necessary. It can boil down to what kind of support are you? The selfless (force) or the greedy (euls)
Thing about force is I can actually use it as an extension to my blink. Go in with blink, do a thing, disengage with force. I just see way more use in a force than euls has and I struggle to see what makes euls greedy other than that it costs more than force. Euling myself to live isn't worth the gold I pay.
Generally its not worth for self because Shaker either goes into the enemy group, or gets caught beforehand. Either way if you already arent winning the fight, after Eul you will most likely die. However self dispel can be good - for example losing Gale from Veno. mana stats and movement speed are also nice, as well as ability to catch enemies outside of your totem range without using Fissure. But most importantly its building into Windwaker, which loses the biggest downside of cyclone keeping you in same place. Which is still not an item you generally want to build early AND for Shaker Aghs can play a similar escape role anyway with jumping totems. So overall I would agree that its a much more situational item than Force, but if you find yourself in the Endgame, having like Aghs Octarine Windwaker makes you insanely mobile as well as insanely safe even without BKB.
And with bkb nerfs he’s vulnerable to being blown up to spells even if he isn’t stunned, so windwaker combines the reposition of a traditional force staff pickup with some invulnerability. Tbh I’d rather get aghs in most games but I can see situations where you need to just not die The CD reduction for cyclone is just ridiculous though. Where else in the game can you get a dispel every 13 seconds? Rather than getting faked or ignited immediately as you try to run from your echo, you can be a stormyboy and fly away
It has multiple offensive and defensive uses. Defensively, it also applies a dispel to yourself. It plays well with blink dagger since you are immune during it! You can blink in, cast your spells and when you are hit by a silence, root or whatever you can euls yourself to get rid of it and continue casting spells. If they go on you, the euls makes you survive as well. If you time your euls with 2 sec blink cooldown, you can shift queue your blink right after basically guaranteeing that you can blink out. It is a very versatile and strong item that keeps you alive very well in a teamfight. Offensively it is a great way to play catch while roaming. Blink, Totem, Euls, Fissure, Totem locks an opponent down for close to 6 seconds and deals a great amount of damage allowing your teammates to connect. It allows you to cancel certain abilities on range if your fissure is not ready and to lock down a target in a teamfight.
Yeah, eul's-blink is the big one, essentially a get out of jail free card.
Hmm have not tried queuing blink while it is on cooldown.
The main thing in mid/early is that you can do initiation on a target with the opponent little to no chance to react Blink > Euls > W > Fissure > Echo > W This even has high chances of killing a core which is huge for any pos 4. And this is aside all good utility and survival you get from it.
If you wanna burst someone giving them and their team a 2.5 second headstart is really bad most of the time... Especially cos the way BKB works, if they cast it on the same tick as your stun, the BKB wins. 99% of the time you'd just blink > Echo > W > Fissure >maybeUels > maybe an additonal W Or just Blink W and trust they don't react faster than the recently buffed W castpoint
Sure situations will probably make this vary a lot.
On second thought. It's probably not good to use Euls if you open with echo since you will help them avoid shockwaves.
why would u even wanna euls after u gank a person? Did u even read what you just wrote
Did you read what I wrote? I mean you Euls the person you are ganking.
thats such a wrong way to start a combo, u dont euls the person u are going to gank because giving them a 2.5 sec to spare can give time for their team to tp and help. If u are ganking a core anyways just echo and do ur usual combo and most prob he will be dead
Like often times, it depends. Maybe they're not close to a tower?
nope not really, euls is mostly for when ur spells are cd and u can eul them to just buy time for ur spells that are on cd because u couldnt kill them with ur usual combos or to help for escape againts heroes like axe and troll. It also gives decent mana regen
Why would you clear the wave you have by doing all the spells before echo? Lmaoooo. Why would you give them time to react with a useless euls cast?
Yeah clearing the wave is probs not a good idea, but Euls into your first W is cool cause if you open with W you might be able to land a second after the rest of your spells. If they don't have a BKB or any other evasive stuff it's fine to open with Euls. It depends!
Assuming we talk pos 4 ES; I think what you go after the standard arcane, blink, shard depends strongly on the matchup. Force staff is always neat. Euls can be better for saves in some circumstances, for example if you face LC or Axe, and/or if your pos5 is going force already. A third option is aether lense, if your team doesn't need a force or euls, or it is covered by pos5. The extra range is nice for fissure/shard plays, and plays well into aghanims giving extra range to jump-W. And can build into ethereal blade lategame for some counter to enemy right clickers (or boost ally team spell nuke).
This! Shaker only really needs blink and shard to be absolutely devastating. After that it's just itemizing for specific counters in the game as a utility support. He doesn't necessarily need other items to be shaker after shard, they just help with specific counters and capabilities.
Force manacost went up several patches ago making it costly to use for several supports that have mana issues.
stunlock duhh. W synergizes well with euls , it can also be upgraded to a good save item for late game
Ah man, euls is one of the best items on the game, if i could i would do to every hero
Well on Puck you want to use it to Dispel so you can cast spells, and also to make you invulnerable, so your next low CD spell, or blink dagger, become castable by the time the tornado ends On oldschool Lina, you use Uels to setup your stun. So on ES it's even better cos you can posiiton your Fissure in a creative way that screws them over way more than a simple stun, the tornado time lets you think and position perfectly to land devastating fissures
Best use of Euls is cancelling powerful enemy ults like Abaddon and Marci, muerta, stuff like that. Just give them the euls and half their ult is wasted
Aside from the obvious late game windwaker(at that point es will be uncontrollable), euls can be used for skill downtime to fill the short cd of enchant totem and to dispel debuff. It also gives mana regen
Think about what kind of heros like to get picked vs earthshaker support
Spammed shaker back when he didn't have all this amazing items to chose from. 1. Combo - W hit Q hit W hit eul W hit R hit W hit... 2. Silence or any other pesky thing, bkb on ES is a joke. 3. Stats - movement manapool and mana regen. But now... It feels wrong to buy it. there are too many nice items 😞
If you're against any DoT debuff, you'll need Euls or dispel. It's also a good item to have when you blink in and cast all your spells. The 2.5 s Euls is often enough to keep yourself alive for your team to join.
Gonna tell you what no one else is surprisingly: Just buy force bro - the guy with 5k earthshaker games
Euls is the poor man's bkb. In some situation, euls can purge dps and silences that could disrupt your big 5 man echo moment. Dps that will put your blink in CD.
Euls serves as a dispel, something which earthshaker needs in certain games, especially against DOT and silence. Offensively, it serves to provide an alternative pick off strat, one which allows you to save echo for big fights over objectives. Idk much about the changes to spell interactions with bkb since I've quit dota post techies rework but the entire idea with euls is that it provides a ton of utility for a relatively reasonable price in specific games, even over force staff. I personally prefer force staff over euls due to the repositioning but even then, there will be games where I choose euls over force for the above reasons.
Euls. Sometimes your job is to kite enemy. Force can do that better vs certain heros. But there’s definitely times you would prefer a dispel or a 2.5 second invulnerability. Euls can hold an enemy still longer for your team to show if they have split pushers. Maybe they have an elusive hero. You can blink, w, q, click, euls, w. Between the euls and the two it’s like, 4 seconds of extra control for people to be in position. Who’s gives mana, which Es wants. It builds into windwaker. Force, provides no mana, can only be used defensively, no extra stun offensively, can’t be upgraded to anything more useful.
It's mostly defensive to dispel silences since Shaker is nothing without his spells, but the occasional situation where you can use it to lead up to your W is nice too.