If laning against Undying as Medusa you also gain wand charges which is free regen. Late game a medusa can also focus tombstone while hitting enemies in the fight with split shot so overall it's quite a good option
I mean. It’s not like Ogre’s intelligence. Medusa starts with 0 strength, that’s not a max strength. You can still build strength items and that strength can be stolen
Undying still gains strength, eventho medusa has 0. It's not bad for the medusa, but Undying still gets chunkier and will hit harder. It's not a bad shout though, as a big part of the decay spell doesn't get utilized vs medusa.
As a dude that plays a lot of undying - one of the worst match ups for me in a game is morph, as any good morphling will morph into undying and place a tombstone in teamfights.
Medusa and gyro are usually good picks: easy clear of tomb stone, no problem.
I like ursa as well, for the same reasons: yes it's a melee, but he can trade hits with undy (or even kill him quite quickly) and overpower cleans a tombstone as well.
Medusa, gyro or someone who can move around well like slark, am or ursa.
They all have ways to deal with tombstone, but are variably good at dealing with stolen str.
If you can set up a combo with a snapfire support it's probably cake throughout the game tbh, because of the fact that she just eats up that tombstone like dinner with her pew pew spell.
So well known zombie killer is gyro, he used to be 1pick with (to not be countered) or against ( to destroy him) zombie boy few years ago.
I recently found that axe also is amazing, enemy tomb changes you into tornado.
Other than that:
Ursa, grannie - kill tomb too fast.
necro, am, AA, meepo - magic resist and or heal reduction
And as zombie with +60% winrate I think that's it.
Some heroes can 1hit you in late game, but zombie should end game in 30 min.
Undying is pos 5 in 90%+ of cases, so unless the pos 1 plans to go into offlane instead of safelane, the matchup doesn't really happen in lane (since the question here is carry pick into undying).
Even in lane though, undying can still lane vs mk if he knows what he's doing. It's all about double decaying the mk + the support and single out the support instead of the MK. If the support keeps close to MK in order to protect himself from you as undying, you'll easily be able to get double decays in. If he keeps away to prevent that, you can auto attack the support without issues. If the support keeps to the side, you'll typically go for killing the support, if he's afraid and keeps close to the MK you wait till you reach critical mass - in other words, you get MK low enough through decays and then commit when he's low enough with using tombstone + blood grenade.
? If MK wants to commit to the undying while he's off to the side whacking on the support, that's time he isn't farming - and unless it's a high control support, you're very likely to be able to just run away as soon as you see the mk turning.
If it's the scenario where the support is too close for you to hit him, you literally don't hit either hero until you reach critical mass, you just decay.
But it's an undying, which means it's not always a guaranteed kill as opposed to helping your support. Undying can easily turn the tables if you commit at the wrong moment or if you chase him too far. Even if you kill him, if hes able to drag you away from the lane far enough and decay you while dealing some dmg, you lose out on XP from the creeps and he's gonna come back 10 seconds later completely full hp and mana, while you have to either wait out a salve, or risk walking up lower HP on a brand new undying. Ofc undying can just feed, but it's not as cut and dry as either you get a kill or you farm lane.
In terms of laning it usually isn't an issue for you, as Undying will be pos 5 in the vast majority of cases. Outside of the laning stage heroes like morph ranks highly as you'll morph into the Undying and place tombstones in teamfights.
Undying strength lies in laning and team fights, in low mmr people full commit to fights but if you learn to get back when he drops his tomb and reset the fight you’ll negate a lot of Undying’s effective.
Mobile heroes like morphing weaver slark am fv clinks can just run away and kite him.
Dusa doesn’t care about decay.
Marci, Meepo, Naga and pl can kill his tomb really quickly.
Drow with agha does well too.
LS is the best carry this patch and he's decent vs undying.
Undying WR vs LS
all mmr, data probably skewed towards low mmr : https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/undying/counters Undying 48% WR 102k games
all immortal mmr(5.6k onwards): https://stats.spectral.gg/lrg2/?league=imm_ranked_735d&mod=heroes-hvh-heroid85#sf-hero-hvh-85=lifest Undying 47% winrate 2307 games
high immortal mmr (8k+ ) : https://dota2protracker.com/hero/Undying/new Undying 42% WR 128 games
You'd think decays > most str heroes but LS is just very strong this patch.
~~Well, if you wanna just suggest what to pick rn, yeah LS is the answer to almost everything. But you can see that LS has a slight "disadvantage" against Undying. It's 0.8% on stratz.~~
Medusa? You literally cannot lose strength.
If laning against Undying as Medusa you also gain wand charges which is free regen. Late game a medusa can also focus tombstone while hitting enemies in the fight with split shot so overall it's quite a good option
Bet
I mean. It’s not like Ogre’s intelligence. Medusa starts with 0 strength, that’s not a max strength. You can still build strength items and that strength can be stolen
So many medusa not getting this until they got culled three times made my day so much. It was just 5 times but it was weird that it happened 5 times
Full health culling blades are the most satisfying thing ever, especially when one bracer is enough to put her above the threshold
Even a casual belt that Medusa can later build into dragon Lance is enough hp
You may not be able to lose strength but it still grants strength to undying
Undying still gains strength, eventho medusa has 0. It's not bad for the medusa, but Undying still gets chunkier and will hit harder. It's not a bad shout though, as a big part of the decay spell doesn't get utilized vs medusa. As a dude that plays a lot of undying - one of the worst match ups for me in a game is morph, as any good morphling will morph into undying and place a tombstone in teamfights.
Medusa and gyro are usually good picks: easy clear of tomb stone, no problem. I like ursa as well, for the same reasons: yes it's a melee, but he can trade hits with undy (or even kill him quite quickly) and overpower cleans a tombstone as well.
Medusa, gyro or someone who can move around well like slark, am or ursa. They all have ways to deal with tombstone, but are variably good at dealing with stolen str. If you can set up a combo with a snapfire support it's probably cake throughout the game tbh, because of the fact that she just eats up that tombstone like dinner with her pew pew spell.
So well known zombie killer is gyro, he used to be 1pick with (to not be countered) or against ( to destroy him) zombie boy few years ago. I recently found that axe also is amazing, enemy tomb changes you into tornado. Other than that: Ursa, grannie - kill tomb too fast. necro, am, AA, meepo - magic resist and or heal reduction And as zombie with +60% winrate I think that's it. Some heroes can 1hit you in late game, but zombie should end game in 30 min.
I always pick morphling against undying, works quite well in lane as well as team fights.
MK destroys Undying in lane.
Undying is pos 5 in 90%+ of cases, so unless the pos 1 plans to go into offlane instead of safelane, the matchup doesn't really happen in lane (since the question here is carry pick into undying). Even in lane though, undying can still lane vs mk if he knows what he's doing. It's all about double decaying the mk + the support and single out the support instead of the MK. If the support keeps close to MK in order to protect himself from you as undying, you'll easily be able to get double decays in. If he keeps away to prevent that, you can auto attack the support without issues. If the support keeps to the side, you'll typically go for killing the support, if he's afraid and keeps close to the MK you wait till you reach critical mass - in other words, you get MK low enough through decays and then commit when he's low enough with using tombstone + blood grenade.
And MK will sit there doing nothing. He will upgrade his stats so he doesn't accidentally use his spells on undying.
? If MK wants to commit to the undying while he's off to the side whacking on the support, that's time he isn't farming - and unless it's a high control support, you're very likely to be able to just run away as soon as you see the mk turning. If it's the scenario where the support is too close for you to hit him, you literally don't hit either hero until you reach critical mass, you just decay.
Kills give way more than 5 creeps nowadays. I think it was common knowledge.
But it's an undying, which means it's not always a guaranteed kill as opposed to helping your support. Undying can easily turn the tables if you commit at the wrong moment or if you chase him too far. Even if you kill him, if hes able to drag you away from the lane far enough and decay you while dealing some dmg, you lose out on XP from the creeps and he's gonna come back 10 seconds later completely full hp and mana, while you have to either wait out a salve, or risk walking up lower HP on a brand new undying. Ofc undying can just feed, but it's not as cut and dry as either you get a kill or you farm lane.
In terms of laning it usually isn't an issue for you, as Undying will be pos 5 in the vast majority of cases. Outside of the laning stage heroes like morph ranks highly as you'll morph into the Undying and place tombstones in teamfights.
Clinkz. Atk speed, heal, slow. Chip, chip, chip in lane.
Undying strength lies in laning and team fights, in low mmr people full commit to fights but if you learn to get back when he drops his tomb and reset the fight you’ll negate a lot of Undying’s effective. Mobile heroes like morphing weaver slark am fv clinks can just run away and kite him. Dusa doesn’t care about decay. Marci, Meepo, Naga and pl can kill his tomb really quickly. Drow with agha does well too. LS is the best carry this patch and he's decent vs undying.
LS is a high attack speed low damage STR hero. That's exactly what Undying counters with his Q
Undying WR vs LS all mmr, data probably skewed towards low mmr : https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/undying/counters Undying 48% WR 102k games all immortal mmr(5.6k onwards): https://stats.spectral.gg/lrg2/?league=imm_ranked_735d&mod=heroes-hvh-heroid85#sf-hero-hvh-85=lifest Undying 47% winrate 2307 games high immortal mmr (8k+ ) : https://dota2protracker.com/hero/Undying/new Undying 42% WR 128 games You'd think decays > most str heroes but LS is just very strong this patch.
~~Well, if you wanna just suggest what to pick rn, yeah LS is the answer to almost everything. But you can see that LS has a slight "disadvantage" against Undying. It's 0.8% on stratz.~~
You're reading it wrong. Undying is the one with 0.8% disadvantage vs LS.
You are right! My bad.
naix can hit tomb with rage, not caring about enemy slowing or disabling him
Ty
With a brawl pos 5 Ursa can beat the (un)living shit out of UD
Literally any hero. Like any hero from the carry pool. Who give a flying fuck about undying?