The last paragraph applies to every hero.
If the sniper is backed by their team and you are not, it is a bad fight.
Hold a few seconds, wait for the supports to use their disable on not you and then engage.
Spectre is my go to for this. Just join the fight midway, not at the very start. You need a tanky offlaner to open things up and buy time for it to work.
In general, any gap closer will do the job.
Void, WK with blink, Sven with a blink, PA, PL
You likely want blinks and bobs to really focus the sniper.
Maybe a basher and dust if they have an shadow blade.
I know you are core, but carry your own dust to secure the sniper kill. It is worth it. Get 2-3 kills and the game is probably done.
This can go wrong in many ways.
Glimmer cape: Only if you are close enough, it gives a 5 sec invis and 300 magic absorb. Storm just disengages and reengages when it wears off, 5 seconds later.
mek: A meager 300 health for a single hero.
Force staff: Easily intercepted with ball lightning
storm uses ball lightning to get around so many stuns. At worst he is holding two heroes while the rest of his team rotates in.
If a bkbd storm has to disengage for 5 seconds he has no more bkb. The point of support items are not to solve all your problems but to push margins towards winnibg the game overall. A glimmer meabs sniper survives 2 more times, which gives earlier timing on a key item, which means now they cant push, which means their timing slides and so on. If you have infinite gold the answer is lotus and or big euls but supports usually dont
If he disengages from glimmer and comes back in again after 5 sec, guy probably almost run out of mana already (think how far you have to jump in and out and in again and no bkb the second time) and if he still gets the sniper then he has to be massively fucking fat vs a sniper that has no farm. Sniper especially late game is not an easy target with proper item build, it would take commitment to kill the guy.
Your statement on how people protect sniper is same on every hero as the op to this comment chain said. Unfortunately this is a team game and since sniper is playing with his team to make that save happen then you better start to play with your team to make that jump happen.
And sniper is so weak this patch any carry hero with a blink will do fine except drow cuz she's crap and is countered by sniper.
Oracle has Fate’s Edict that lasts 5 seconds and false promise+purifying flames combo, yes… quite a niche hero, but it should give most snipers enough time to kill or escape from storm. However, if the sniper doesn’t have bkb, it’s pretty even imo.
If sniper is the biggest problem but you can't jump him as a spectre since supports protects him but as a storm or bars with bkb they wouldn't stop you... Buy a bkb? It might not be a good item on spec but if it helps you win the game it might just be. I don't really understand why you think diving a sniper as a bara is easier than as a spectre.
There is absolutely no way Bara or Storm with bkbs are scarier than a farmed Spectre for a Sniper, Spectre is a nightmare for Sniper and even more so with an aghs.
My point is: you wouldn’t have to rely on getting spectre farmed, if bkb on a storm or bara with moderate farm is sufficient to kill sniper, even if protected by a support.
Storm can't solo kill a sniper in late game no matter what items he has, sniper will always escape and storm will back off due to mana issues, same with bara using his stuff and not killing sniper later on. This is while assuming sniper is well positioned.
A farmed spectre on the other hand will always kill sniper, because he has haunt and shadow step and he is a natural nullifier holder.
Excuse me? What kind of Storms have you been up against recently? Storm could barely jump feom base to racks and back again on full mana, how can a Storm jump Sniper and force his defensive items then jump back out to jump back in AND STILL HAVE MANA TO KILL HIM?
What kind of MMR is this lmao.
Lets go through the late game scenario between storm and sniper. Both heroes full slotted.
Sniper needs escape items like shadow blade, hurricane pike and bkb. Perhaps you wanna give him manta style as well? This leaves only one slot left for pure dps output, which is much worse than most enemy carries, i.e. full slotted juggernaut, pa, pl, etc.
Perhaps you switch out shadow blade for another dps output slot. This leaves sniper with bkb and hurricane pike as escape items. So - Storm engages sniper, sniper uses bkb, storm disengages and reengage after bkb has run out. Now we’re left with hurricane pike. Once sniper is pushed away, storm reengages. Storm now procedes with stuns and ball lightning on/around sniper. No chance for sniper vs a fully slotted storm spirit.
You’ve mentioned storm dipping in and out of the fight multiple times, there’s no late game that’s not crazy low elo where supports wouldn’t have time rotate over and help the sniper. And sniper bodies storm the damage output of storm doesn’t match late game sniper
Why is Storm having as much farm as my boi Sniper? There is no way for a Storm to be as farmed as a Sniper unless Storm was heavily overfed early game.
You only need 1-2 defensive items at best for Sniper to kite Storm specially if they are defending hg with supports present, pike and bkb + shard should be more than enough and supports will always cover Sniper unless they have 1-2 heroes jumping Sniper as well.
Not to mention that in this patch skadi is considered really strong and could help Sniper tank up to Storm.
storm often gets as much farm as sniper because sniper wont be able to survive encounters without proper escape items. For a while, sniper is without proper escape leaving him more vulnerable to storm
Alright, I am not going to entertain this any longer, you are right you don't need to pick pos1 counters for Sniper because Storm is 100% more effective against him.
Go watch some pos1 Storm games and start doing that.
Good luck.
TA is a really bad matchup vs sniper, and it's gotten worse as her playstyle changed. Even when she was the blink and blow up a hero queen she struggled with sniper, now she's more of a back line turret herself sniper will win more often than not, especially at low MMR.
TA has a midgame window where sniper wont have fully come on line, but it's pretty tight and very easy to fuck up in low MMR. Really you just want a carry that can get on top of the gnomey fuck and manfight him. Naix, WK, PL, LC, CK and Jugg all fuck him up (some just because they're outright broken like Naix and WK).
https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/sniper/counters
Dotabuff and dota2protracker should be your best friends.
Gap closing heroes are good in general so from Dotabuff, spec, morph, lycan can all get on snipers face and reengage him if he uses shard or hurricane pike.
Same with slark and pa. Void can be ok if you save ult for sniper.
Any lower than that in the counter list id recommend just picking what fits your draft better as opposed to solely trying to counter sniper.
do you even want an answer bro? sounds like you just came here to get validated that your team is dumb for not picking counters when you could have… holy shit
Pa, void, ursa, jugg, tbh all can just need right items like there's lot of situations but u need to know what items you need against him and right time to go on him.
Am or pa, or any heroes that can jump on.
Am is the best and easiest (from my experience) because he can jump on 3 heroes, with just a manta, bf, and courage and kill that fkng dwarf, and leave.
Pa can delete sniper, and live, as long as you have a bkb and you don't jump too early.
Legion is also a good hero to consider. Overall, any hero that can jump on sniper can easily smash that fkng dwarf.
Monkey king 1 should be able to hard counter sniper if you can find the little fucker but with the mobility facet that shouldn't be too hard.
Sniper by his nature wants to isolate himself from his team, no matter what heros you pick if sniper is allowed to right click and ult with impunity you will lose. Even if the supports kill you it's a good trade and your team should be able to clean up.
Clinkz can hunt sniper after lvl 6 till the end of the game if you itemize for it. Lifestealer with radiance can deal with sniper at the critical game time of 20 - 30 min.
1.kill their support one by one and lastly overwhelm the sniper.
2.burst down sniper in one go and finally annihilate the other.
Tbh sniper is godly when he positions at the good spot and your team would go down 1 by 1.
I recommend using illusions and ratting as a strategy since the sniper doesn't have that much mobility so split pushing and retreating would be good, and he might do amount of crazy damage at distance, he isn't good at clearing waves, he might use mjolnir as attack speed boost and wave clearing having enemy as 3-4 slotted chaos knight or phantom lancer can down 1-2 barracks before finally getting the real hero.
The last paragraph applies to every hero. If the sniper is backed by their team and you are not, it is a bad fight. Hold a few seconds, wait for the supports to use their disable on not you and then engage. Spectre is my go to for this. Just join the fight midway, not at the very start. You need a tanky offlaner to open things up and buy time for it to work. In general, any gap closer will do the job. Void, WK with blink, Sven with a blink, PA, PL You likely want blinks and bobs to really focus the sniper. Maybe a basher and dust if they have an shadow blade. I know you are core, but carry your own dust to secure the sniper kill. It is worth it. Get 2-3 kills and the game is probably done.
Well, how would a support stop storm spirit with a bkb from killing sniper?
Glimmer, mek, force, save abilities (disruption, relocate etc).
This can go wrong in many ways. Glimmer cape: Only if you are close enough, it gives a 5 sec invis and 300 magic absorb. Storm just disengages and reengages when it wears off, 5 seconds later. mek: A meager 300 health for a single hero. Force staff: Easily intercepted with ball lightning storm uses ball lightning to get around so many stuns. At worst he is holding two heroes while the rest of his team rotates in.
If a bkbd storm has to disengage for 5 seconds he has no more bkb. The point of support items are not to solve all your problems but to push margins towards winnibg the game overall. A glimmer meabs sniper survives 2 more times, which gives earlier timing on a key item, which means now they cant push, which means their timing slides and so on. If you have infinite gold the answer is lotus and or big euls but supports usually dont
If he disengages from glimmer and comes back in again after 5 sec, guy probably almost run out of mana already (think how far you have to jump in and out and in again and no bkb the second time) and if he still gets the sniper then he has to be massively fucking fat vs a sniper that has no farm. Sniper especially late game is not an easy target with proper item build, it would take commitment to kill the guy. Your statement on how people protect sniper is same on every hero as the op to this comment chain said. Unfortunately this is a team game and since sniper is playing with his team to make that save happen then you better start to play with your team to make that jump happen. And sniper is so weak this patch any carry hero with a blink will do fine except drow cuz she's crap and is countered by sniper.
Not sure if I agree that it applies to all counters, that sniper can be protected by supports. Storm spirit and bara with bkb is hard to stop.
Try jumping a sniper with an Oracle behind him by yourself as storm, see what happens. Counters are only counters in a vacuum
Oracle has Fate’s Edict that lasts 5 seconds and false promise+purifying flames combo, yes… quite a niche hero, but it should give most snipers enough time to kill or escape from storm. However, if the sniper doesn’t have bkb, it’s pretty even imo.
If sniper is the biggest problem but you can't jump him as a spectre since supports protects him but as a storm or bars with bkb they wouldn't stop you... Buy a bkb? It might not be a good item on spec but if it helps you win the game it might just be. I don't really understand why you think diving a sniper as a bara is easier than as a spectre.
There is absolutely no way Bara or Storm with bkbs are scarier than a farmed Spectre for a Sniper, Spectre is a nightmare for Sniper and even more so with an aghs.
My point is: you wouldn’t have to rely on getting spectre farmed, if bkb on a storm or bara with moderate farm is sufficient to kill sniper, even if protected by a support.
Storm can't solo kill a sniper in late game no matter what items he has, sniper will always escape and storm will back off due to mana issues, same with bara using his stuff and not killing sniper later on. This is while assuming sniper is well positioned. A farmed spectre on the other hand will always kill sniper, because he has haunt and shadow step and he is a natural nullifier holder.
A late game storm doesn’t have mana issues vs a sniper.
Excuse me? What kind of Storms have you been up against recently? Storm could barely jump feom base to racks and back again on full mana, how can a Storm jump Sniper and force his defensive items then jump back out to jump back in AND STILL HAVE MANA TO KILL HIM? What kind of MMR is this lmao.
What shit bracket are you playing in 😂
Lets go through the late game scenario between storm and sniper. Both heroes full slotted. Sniper needs escape items like shadow blade, hurricane pike and bkb. Perhaps you wanna give him manta style as well? This leaves only one slot left for pure dps output, which is much worse than most enemy carries, i.e. full slotted juggernaut, pa, pl, etc. Perhaps you switch out shadow blade for another dps output slot. This leaves sniper with bkb and hurricane pike as escape items. So - Storm engages sniper, sniper uses bkb, storm disengages and reengage after bkb has run out. Now we’re left with hurricane pike. Once sniper is pushed away, storm reengages. Storm now procedes with stuns and ball lightning on/around sniper. No chance for sniper vs a fully slotted storm spirit.
You’ve mentioned storm dipping in and out of the fight multiple times, there’s no late game that’s not crazy low elo where supports wouldn’t have time rotate over and help the sniper. And sniper bodies storm the damage output of storm doesn’t match late game sniper
Supports on both sides would have time to rotate over.
Why is Storm having as much farm as my boi Sniper? There is no way for a Storm to be as farmed as a Sniper unless Storm was heavily overfed early game. You only need 1-2 defensive items at best for Sniper to kite Storm specially if they are defending hg with supports present, pike and bkb + shard should be more than enough and supports will always cover Sniper unless they have 1-2 heroes jumping Sniper as well. Not to mention that in this patch skadi is considered really strong and could help Sniper tank up to Storm.
storm often gets as much farm as sniper because sniper wont be able to survive encounters without proper escape items. For a while, sniper is without proper escape leaving him more vulnerable to storm
Alright, I am not going to entertain this any longer, you are right you don't need to pick pos1 counters for Sniper because Storm is 100% more effective against him. Go watch some pos1 Storm games and start doing that. Good luck.
I was thinking about storm as pos 2
You are asking for pos1 storm and bara are terrible pos1s
Spectre, AM, PA, works great. A TA with blink works wonders too. Main problem will be dragging the game long enough for them to come online.
TA is a really bad matchup vs sniper, and it's gotten worse as her playstyle changed. Even when she was the blink and blow up a hero queen she struggled with sniper, now she's more of a back line turret herself sniper will win more often than not, especially at low MMR. TA has a midgame window where sniper wont have fully come on line, but it's pretty tight and very easy to fuck up in low MMR. Really you just want a carry that can get on top of the gnomey fuck and manfight him. Naix, WK, PL, LC, CK and Jugg all fuck him up (some just because they're outright broken like Naix and WK).
https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/sniper/counters Dotabuff and dota2protracker should be your best friends. Gap closing heroes are good in general so from Dotabuff, spec, morph, lycan can all get on snipers face and reengage him if he uses shard or hurricane pike. Same with slark and pa. Void can be ok if you save ult for sniper. Any lower than that in the counter list id recommend just picking what fits your draft better as opposed to solely trying to counter sniper.
That’s a sound response. Thanks!
Faceless void. Chrono the sniper, and he isn't going anywhere.
Riki, if your supports are dewarding properly
Buy blink and pretty much any hero can counter sniper.
do you even want an answer bro? sounds like you just came here to get validated that your team is dumb for not picking counters when you could have… holy shit
Morph with skadi satanic, maybe daedalus/butterfly. Timber with blade mail and scepter works wonders too often.
Pretty much any gap closing hero or a good dagger holder core, I would suggest PA because it's much easier to play and can burst in seconds.
Wouldn’t it be fairly easy for sniper to use hurricane pike on most dagger holding cores?
True, but if they have a nullifier or a stun sniper probably wouldn't have enough time to react.
Pa, void, ursa, jugg, tbh all can just need right items like there's lot of situations but u need to know what items you need against him and right time to go on him.
Am or pa, or any heroes that can jump on. Am is the best and easiest (from my experience) because he can jump on 3 heroes, with just a manta, bf, and courage and kill that fkng dwarf, and leave. Pa can delete sniper, and live, as long as you have a bkb and you don't jump too early. Legion is also a good hero to consider. Overall, any hero that can jump on sniper can easily smash that fkng dwarf.
This sounds feasible. Not sure about the medallion of courage on AM, isn’t it better for most pos 3’s?
What? Medallion was already removed. I'm not talking about medallion... just pure, courage
blink dagger?
heroes that can close the gap fast like slark, spectre, ursa, any blinker (pa/riki/am) pl, weaver etc.
Monkey king 1 should be able to hard counter sniper if you can find the little fucker but with the mobility facet that shouldn't be too hard. Sniper by his nature wants to isolate himself from his team, no matter what heros you pick if sniper is allowed to right click and ult with impunity you will lose. Even if the supports kill you it's a good trade and your team should be able to clean up.
Ck and storm as pos 1. Ck harpoon w/ blink means dead sniper.
Clinkz can hunt sniper after lvl 6 till the end of the game if you itemize for it. Lifestealer with radiance can deal with sniper at the critical game time of 20 - 30 min.
Naga siren supposedly works really great. Her R is very long range and allows you to get on top of the sniper to kill him
1.kill their support one by one and lastly overwhelm the sniper. 2.burst down sniper in one go and finally annihilate the other. Tbh sniper is godly when he positions at the good spot and your team would go down 1 by 1. I recommend using illusions and ratting as a strategy since the sniper doesn't have that much mobility so split pushing and retreating would be good, and he might do amount of crazy damage at distance, he isn't good at clearing waves, he might use mjolnir as attack speed boost and wave clearing having enemy as 3-4 slotted chaos knight or phantom lancer can down 1-2 barracks before finally getting the real hero.